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The Space Between – Heaven on Earth is a companion podcast to Awakening – Heaven on Earth.
Through intimate, heart-centered conversations, this series explores the lived experience of awakening — the questions, integrations, paradoxes, and sacred pauses where transformation truly occurs.
This is the space between knowing and becoming…
where Heaven meets Earth through honest dialogue.
Welcome to the space between heaven on earth. This is a companion podcast to awakening heaven on earth created as a space for reflection, conversation, and lived experience. Here, we enter the pause between knowing and becoming, between insight and embodiment, between heaven and earth. These conversations are not about answers or conclusions. They are about presence, about listening, about reasoning together, about meeting one another honestly in the unfolding journey of awakening.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm your host, Jeffrey Aylor. Again, welcome and thank you for entering The Space Between with us. Welcome to this episode of The Space Between. In our last episode, we explored healing the family, the first circle of love, the place where many of us first experienced connection, belonging, sometimes separation. And today we're going to expand that circle beyond ourselves, beyond our families, and into community.
Jeffrey Aylor:This episode is called Belonging Together Unity in Communities. Because one of the deepest needs that we all have, every human being has, is to belong, to know I matter, I have a place, I'm not alone, and yet many people today are surrounded by others but still feel deeply disconnected. So today we're going to explore and dive into what creates true community. You know, how do we create spaces where people could feel seen, they could be valued, and how do we move from simply existing near each other To truly belonging together. Being connected.
Jeffrey Aylor:As we know we truly are. So I'm going to start this with asking a question for each one of you that are with us today. And by the way, we have my son Joel back with us today, which is great to have him back in conversation with us. We have Porta Devi, and we have Joe Dermody. And each one of you, I want you to take a few moments.
Jeffrey Aylor:And when you hear the word community, what comes up for you? Is there a time in your life when you felt you truly belonged somewhere?
Purna Devi:Well, you know, when I hear community, I think of the yogic experience. And the word yoga comes actually from the root word yug in Sanskrit, which is union, to unify, to yoke together. Mhmm. And we also have this word sangha, right? So sangha is a community of like minded people, people that sit in the truth.
Purna Devi:And so for me, I have done a lot of I've had a lot of experience in community in these spiritual settings. But I have also found that ego follows us wherever we go. And so sometimes people can believe that, oh, you get in these spiritual circles and judgment doesn't arise and ego isn't present. But really, I think in any circle you find mirrors for ourselves. And so for me, community is really about having space to be my authentic self while also being held accountable.
Purna Devi:Right? I think the greatest community for me are people that can hold me in my tender spaces and also be really honest with me and have the ability to mirror to me maybe certain aspects that I can't observe for myself.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. Well said. I don't have a whole lot more I can add to that. I know I think biggest thing, belonging is not the absence of difference. Belong it's the it's the absence of exclusion.
Joel Aylor:So it's basically not trying to just fit in, but actually being able to authentically feel like you belong in an area or with people in certain groups of settings, things like that. So
Joe Dermody:Yeah. Just being with a group of like minded people where you feel loved and you feel the ability to love back. So and it can be people. I think it can be your pets. I think it can be yourself in nature.
Joe Dermody:I know that sounds a little bit weird when you think of community, but I think having a place where you can sit with yourself and feel a oneness, but know that there's others beings. Maybe not human beings, but other beings around you in nature is still part of your community.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, the word itself, if you think about it and break it down, is common unity. What what creates a common connection. I know it outside of family, you know your neighborhood can be a community, you're connected to people in your neighborhood, you're connected to people within the city that you live in, or the area that you live in geographically. Community could be based on common ideas or interests. You work as a community.
Jeffrey Aylor:This morning, as I was sitting outside by my pond, listening to the water run and meditating, my fish and I became a community as I sat there and watched them, and went to go feed them, and they get so excited, and it just creates a connection with that. Again, to Joe's point, it doesn't have to be human beings. It can be nature. It can be animals. It can be spirits.
Jeffrey Aylor:I believe that there's a spirit community, the community of souls and spirits that we interact with. So you know, I think the biggest thing for me is learning to expand my thought about the communities that I actually belong to and can enjoy in life. So that's a good foundation I think for the discussion we're going to have today, and as we jump into these reflection questions again, we're going to do these in different parts, and this first part we're going to jump into. First, we're going to talk about what what's the experience of belonging. Can you describe a place, a group, or a moment where you felt like you you truly belonged?
Jeffrey Aylor:You weren't just there. You truly belonged.
Purna Devi:Well, you know, I kinda wanna go a bit, existential with this and then hone in a bit. Right? And so we are made up of stars and the cosmos and, right, we have that same energy pulsating within us as the stars do. And so just by our very existence, there is the essence of belonging woven into the fact that we are here existing. And then we get programmed and conditioned and duality, you know, sets in and the idea of this and that separates us.
Purna Devi:But think we all came through a mother, and that was our first sense of belonging in the physical realm. And then we come Earth's side and the womb gets cut. And like Thich Nhat Hanh says, once that umbilical cord gets cut, there is a an illusion of separateness created. And I had a trauma teacher once say, if you can ground into the present moment and just notice gravity and your gravitational force, That is a remembrance of your belonging. That is an example of secure attachment.
Purna Devi:We always belong wherever we are, but we forget that. Right? And we have this illusion of separateness. And so to answer your question, right, I think belonging is an act of remembrance, of removing the illusion of separateness, of duality. And my senses really confuse that because I can perceive myself in this body and I'm here and then I perceive you and you're there.
Purna Devi:And so there's a really difficult distortion, I think, to overcome. And so a lot of folks feel like they don't belong because we forget that our inherent existence is, in fact, belonging. And we're pack animals. Right? We don't live in caves.
Purna Devi:Isolation. We live in relation to one another.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. I'm just listening to Alan Watts today talk about how we look at a tree and we and we see attached to the earth. So we we assume it's just part of the earth. And that because we can move along the Earth and not be attached to it and and, you know, that we're actually separate from it, but we're not. So we're actually just part of the Earth just like a tree is.
Joel Aylor:But for me, one of the deepest experiences I ever had have a sense of belonging to a community, was right after my sister was killed. It was a very painful time, but it was also the first time that I saw the power of community. People showed up without having to be asked. I had friends and classmates and neighbors, people I didn't even realize that cared that much show up. And so in the middle of the grief that we were all experiencing, they all they all came and, you know, had this, basically, the same sense of belonging.
Joel Aylor:And it wasn't because we had, you know, done anything to deserve it or earned it or anything like that. They just basically were there. They're willing to sit with us in our pain, and that was something that was extremely profound because our our house was just enveloped with people from all over the area
Jeffrey Aylor:that had heard about it.
Joel Aylor:So sometimes we we see this, you know, connectedness when things get hard. It's not always when it's you know, life's going well. But when things get difficult, that's when you start to see the power of the the people around you and the connectedness you have with people.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's almost when you see some of the true community. Right? It's in those most difficult times, a lot of people will avoid you. We know that. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:As much as people came Right. So We also many people, people that we expected to be here avoided us.
Joel Aylor:You saw how uncomfortable they were.
Jeffrey Aylor:Because they were so incredibly uncomfortable with what we were going through and themselves and what they were thinking and feeling that yet, you're right. It really was a a sense of community that you could I it's very difficult to even describe it, what we experienced.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. Yeah. It was just to to see the people who did come. It was like, yep. They're here?
Joel Aylor:What? Yeah. Yeah. It's just yeah. It wasn't what you you would have had who we would have expected to be there, but they were there.
Joel Aylor:Right. So Yeah. Yeah. Good example.
Joe Dermody:I have I have two. And the first one is a a larger community, and that's when we we went to an FC Bayern game last year. And that was a pretty awesome awesome event. And it wasn't just the local community that showed up, but it was it was kind of a global community that showed up. And it was a community of like minded people that came together to to experience this this soccer game, but we were all there for a common for a common cause.
Joe Dermody:But what amazed me was not only the outpouring of the emotion, the the the love that we felt for this one team, but then how much love and and excitement that we showed for the composing team that our team just really we we were way overpowered to be playing this team. They outscore we outscored them by a very large amount. The other team played their heart out. They played a a very good game, just not at the same level as FC Bayern. And the amount of just we still cheered for them.
Joe Dermody:They they and it was amazing. It by the end of the game, you still wanted them to score. You wanted them to play hard. And and even FC Bayern, they still wanted them to play well too. It was just the the sportsmanship, the camaraderie between the two teams was fantastic.
Joe Dermody:And everybody in the stadium still felt that too. And it was just a great event where the the just a lot of love shown in that stadium.
Joel Aylor:And I thought what was cool as well was how all the fan clubs and stuff from the area came together. Complete strangers. Never seen them before in our lives, but we all love this team, and we all know that shared experience. Yeah. And all of a sudden, we're no longer, you know, strangers.
Joel Aylor:Now we're family.
Joe Dermody:You felt like family. And that's I think that's a huge part of community. The other one I wanted to share, and and this is one of my, you know, things that that really, you know, stick in my heart. I have a core group of friends that I met early on in college. A few of them I met in high school, and we loved to go camping.
Joe Dermody:We've now all split and gone our own separate ways, but if I bring this, you know, up to any of them, yeah, I know a smile comes to our face, and we think of it, and it we're there again. We used to go camping all the time at Red River Gorge down in Kentucky, and there's a spot that we go to. We did this probably ten, twelve times throughout our college career. And, you know, just being down there together for a weekend, a long weekend, the holidays will make us all just think about that. And there's times when we just would share the togetherness, the being outdoors together.
Joe Dermody:That's that's huge for us. So that that small community that we had and still do.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, I love these examples because, obviously, when you're sitting here having discussions about spiritual things, one of the first communities people are gonna think about is church. And you know, the one thing that I grew up in church, to me church was was a big part of life. Those people are still in many ways, and I look back and think about our church community, still many fond memories, not all fond, most of them though. And the whole concept of church, ecclesia, right, is designed, is you know, for people to be together. And I think one of the things sometimes when we start to go into this awakening process is that we and we or we're in the process of say deconstructing Christianity that we're coming from or out of or trying to understand from a different perspective is that we tend to isolate ourselves for a while and forget that wait a minute, there's still some really important value in the community, in the being together.
Jeffrey Aylor:In fact, what are we doing right now? Same thing. Are we not in community? And I'll be very honest, I can't I don't think I look forward to much more during the week than this time we spend together in the mornings here having these discussions about these topics and about life and about circumstance. So to me, you all are my one of my sweet and dear communities, and and I don't get to share this with everybody.
Jeffrey Aylor:I don't not everybody is interested in these topics or is is wants to have the types of discussions that that you all are willing to have.
Joel Aylor:And I saw a card yesterday that kinda highlights exactly what you just said, because you can't have you can't have a butterfly discussion with caterpillar people. Okay. True. Kinda kind of a cool way of looking at it. They're just not it's not that they're not gonna eventually find this.
Joel Aylor:It's just they're not not quite ready
Jeffrey Aylor:not there. It's not time, and and and and, you know, that connects that connection is strong and it's beautiful and and there are people who would seek to destroy that. And I hope that that we can you know that bond can be strong enough that you know, even when we face resistance from time to time, that we're willing to stick it stick together, because this is what belonging feels like to me.
Purna Devi:If I can speak to my present moment experience, all of my beloved family here knows that I'm going through something very difficult and someone is seeking, right, To dismantle the community that I am a part of professionally and personally that I have worked for over fifteen years, right, to create and to manifest. And, you know, I've had these really potent moments of fear that this community might look at me differently or turn against me or feel some type of way. And the beauty through the difficulty that I'm currently going through is I've had people reach out that I haven't heard from in years and remind me of what an important part of their journey I've been or just, right, folks reaching out. Joe sent me an email last week and said, hey, I am here, whatever you need. Right?
Purna Devi:And all of you have reached out in ways and just reminded me of who I am amidst this bit of a witch trial, if you will. Someone, you know, trying to create a level of harm in the integrity and the character. And you all have just reflected that so deeply in moments where, you know, it's easy to forget who you are because someone so aggressively is telling you you're something else. And so thank you. Yeah.
Purna Devi:Thank you for reminding me how important this community is and how important community is during painful times. Right? It's some of those times where people really show up and unexpected people, like Joel said, show up in your corner to reflect who you are and to help you ground into that remembrance of belonging.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, think that really then leads us nicely into this next question around being seen, truly being seen. You know, what's the difference between just being accepted because you fit in versus belonging because you are you're truly seen. You're truly seen for the core and essence of who you are.
Purna Devi:You know, I've always thought that about duality, right, and about the shadow and the light. And people love us when we're shiny and we're bright and we're we're bringing goodness or we're elevating the situation. And I've always thought real belonging, real community, real connection is being able to see me in my shadows and still loving me there, still embracing me, still holding me. Right? Because we all have the desire to be seen, but then we have this shame culture, right, that wants us to hide those unsavory parts of us and only lead with the shiny parts or the palatable parts.
Purna Devi:And life is gritty, man, right? Like there is a grittiness to the reality of humanity. And so I think true belonging is being able to hold one another in our shadows and our lights and still loving us there.
Joel Aylor:Yes. To me, fitting in in a group often requires you to be adaptable. You have to constantly monitor yourself. You have to make sure that you are toeing the line, doing what doing the right things in order to fit in. True belonging allows you to be authentically you.
Joel Aylor:When you when you belong, you can relax. It's not stressful. And so, you know, just being accepted, just having some just fitting in makes you feel like you're allowed to stay. You're allowed to be in this group. You're good enough to be in this group, where belonging says you don't
Jeffrey Aylor:have to
Joel Aylor:pretend. You can just be you, and I think that's huge. And to your to your point, Perna, you talked about, you know, life isn't, you know, isn't always just, you know, the good stuff. It's not always just pretty. It's not always nice.
Joel Aylor:You know, people are real. They have a dark side. We have shadows. I think that's one place where modern, say, Christianity, when it's just this comes from our background, where that seems like we're we always wanted to be pretty. We wanna put on our best face.
Joel Aylor:We wanna look the best to everybody. We wanna show our best side. We don't wanna show our darks our darkness and our our shadows, but that's where we actually need the help. And I think that was exactly what Jesus was talking about. It's like, all have the life that you, you know, you religious people, you're fine.
Joel Aylor:You're you're good. I'm here to help the people who need, you know, help in this in this world that we've got. I'm gonna be with the people in their shadows, in their darkness, and help them, you know, improve their life. That was the whole point of his his ministry. And I think that's just one thing that we've got wrong again is that we're constantly just wanting to see the best in people.
Joel Aylor:We, you know, we see we turn on TV, and we see megachurches worth billions of dollars and stuff. And it's like, that's not true. That's not true life. You know? To to truly belong, you have to sit with them in their dark places.
Joel Aylor:You know? And it's scary because to be your authentic self with somebody open you know, you basically are you're vulnerable, and people don't like to be vulnerable.
Purna Devi:And I like how you said fitting in is the idea that we will allow you to be here. Right? There's a conditionality and exclusivity.
Joel Aylor:Right. You have to earn the acceptance.
Purna Devi:To earn it, right? You fall in line.
Joel Aylor:That's not Yeah, that's just gonna cause you to be stressful or worry all the time.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, to me, that's that's where we start crossing into religion. Right? Religion is what defines these rules and the image that we're supposed to present and the way we're supposed to look if you don't look a certain way or act a certain way. It's so funny because I can I can clearly see times where I've been in a congregational setting in a Christian church? And people are looking around to see what are they doing?
Jeffrey Aylor:What are they doing? And I and then they then they need to do that too. I'm gonna I'm gonna raise my when I'm singing because everybody else is raising their hands when they're singing right
Joel Aylor:now because I really feel it.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. Yeah. And so you get into this religiosity versus spirituality, which is to me is the true essence or experience that we're seeking, and it has nothing to do with how you dress, what kind of hairstyle you have. I had one person when I was when I was Among the primitive Baptist people that said, don't look like a primitive Baptist, and I'm looking at myself. I'm like, well, what does that mean?
Jeffrey Aylor:What am I supposed to look like? We're not we're not the Amish. You think of the Amish and it's like what if we supposed to look like an Amish person? What am I supposed to look like? Maybe, you know, Pentecostals.
Jeffrey Aylor:They have a look. You tell you can't tell me they don't have a look. And if you don't look that way, you don't fit in, right? You're now going to be as communicated or ostracized or put aside. Well, you can apply that in in a lot of different ways.
Jeffrey Aylor:If I don't act exactly the way you want me to act or if I to our point, acknowledge the reality of who we are. I think what most people have you really come to know me will tell you I am who I am. And I am the way I am, whether I'm here in my home, or whether I'm at work, or whether I'm in a church setting, or it doesn't matter. I'm going to be who I am. And if you don't like that, I love you anyway.
Jeffrey Aylor:As I always like to say, I'll forgive you. I'll forgive you for not liking me. That's okay. It's perfectly okay. But I am who I am.
Jeffrey Aylor:And it used to be.
Joe Dermody:I think I think some of that is just fitting in is conditional, and belonging is unconditional sometimes. And that's what I'm hearing right now. It's belonging is unconditional, and it's it's hard, though. Sometimes it is sometimes it's not as easy. Sometimes it's the easiest thing in the world.
Joe Dermody:I think it depends on what group you're you're in because and what I mean by that is sometimes to belong, you have to let go of things that are not easy to let go of. Because if you're going to belong in a group and even the group of your closest friends, it's you have to build relationships, and relationship building isn't always easy. And in order to truly belong, you have to accept people for who they are and allow yourself to be accepted. And until you can really do that, I don't think you're going to truly belong, and that is not always easy.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you can't. You can't truly be seen if you're not being truly who you are, right? And I think Porna has touched on, you know, the circumstance she's going through, and I'd also think back in in my Christian foundations about to to Joel's point about how Jesus approached people and who he approached and who he spent time with, that other people were judging him and saying, well, you shouldn't be spending time with publican tax collectors and and sinners, and and and and he's like, well, who do you think you are? You must be a judgmental group of people because you wouldn't say that. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:And, again, here is this religious group making all of these judgments, and this is why people are are struggling right now with organized religion is because they they have created a false sense of being, and people live a very stressful life trying to conform to that and stay in conformance to it because it's not who they truly are in some cases, and they're afraid to openly express who they are and what they are and what they think. One of the that's one of the reasons why I'm finding this to be liberating, and I think this is why churches are struggling because people are wanting to be themselves. They want to be their true being, And and I want to be with them. That's who I want to say. That's who I'm finding.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's where I'm finding community at this point. It's not that I don't love the people that are going to these churches. I do. I absolutely do. But to your point, Joel, they are where they are, and it's okay.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm not gonna I don't want to be judgmental of their circumstance because I've been them. Yep. I have been them. So how who am I to say anything about anybody doing anything? Sorry, just you know that I've I have matured.
Jeffrey Aylor:I have actually matured and developed, I think a little bit so. So boy, just like with most of our discussions, we can just go on and on and on within some of these questions and have just one episode around all you know, just one question. But we want to start into this next line of thinking around, you know, people are isolated in a connected world. Here we are in one of the most technologically connected times in history. Yet I think people feel more isolated and disconnected than ever.
Jeffrey Aylor:It it it's counterintuitive. You would think that we would be absolutely one with all the technology available to us, and we're not. So there's something now I'm going to call it modern loneliness. You know why? Why do you think so many people feel so disconnected even when we have more ways to communicate than ever?
Purna Devi:Well, I think it goes back to what I said earlier about humans being pack animals. And we are also in a time where modern technology and modern life has disconnected us from the truth that we're not just a part of nature, but we are nature. And those two realities butting up against this high speed, I can connect with anyone technologically anywhere in the world at my fingertips. There's this overwhelm of this false illusion of connection that continues to take us deeper and deeper into the fissure, into the separateness of being pack animals, being in you know, think about, you know, tribal communities, you know, and sacred communities that sit together. They commune physically with one another.
Purna Devi:Right? We're there with one another. We can touch one another. We can, right, be in the physical presence of one another and be in nature together. And so I think a lot of this modern loneliness comes from the inherent disconnection from self, the disconnection from nature, our first mother, right, the earth mother, and our connection from physical spaces.
Purna Devi:And I get, right, I've had this conversation with many people, you know, we have disabilities. And so some folks would say, if I'm unable to get out of the home, my only connection is the virtual one. Or in 2020, right, when COVID hit, for example, we transitioned to a virtual community. And it, I think, has only gotten worse from there. And a lot of folks feel very separated and feel very disconnected because of the extreme level of technology that's just replaced organic community connection.
Joel Aylor:It's almost made us a hybrid species.
Purna Devi:Yeah. Yes.
Joel Aylor:Where we're part part human, part technology. Yeah. But yeah, so we've become incredibly connected informationally, but really disconnected relationally. We don't have the relationships like we do. We were fully bombarded with information.
Joel Aylor:But relationally, we struggle. And what that what we're lacking is is that the actual presence of the other person. And from what I'm you know, just watching, say, my son grow up as you know, he's an 18 year old kid now. That's a man now. He's an adult.
Joel Aylor:But he's had the technology in his hands since he was eight, and everything he does goes through that device. Every decision he makes goes through that device. That's why I said he's almost like a hybrid species, and it's really stunted him, you know, socially. And he he had issues, you know, certain ways relationally to begin with, but it made it even worse because he felt like it was a replacement. It was something he could just use, and he could survive using this device.
Joel Aylor:And I think back
Jeffrey Aylor:I mean,
Joel Aylor:I'm I'm at that age now where I'm like, in my
Jeffrey Aylor:day, then this is what I did. Right?
Joel Aylor:I'm already there. But in my day, we with my with my friends, we were constantly together, physically present with one another, always at each other's houses, running around outside together. Now if I if I asked my son to go just next door to his best friend's house and see what he was up to, it would freak him out. He would not be able he does not wanna do it. It makes him extremely uncomfortable, and that's, I think, the biggest thing with a lot of this is that people like to be comfortable, and having this technology makes things easy.
Joel Aylor:We don't have to do much. We don't have to put ourselves out there. We don't have to look at the person in the eye and ask an uncomfortable question. We don't like to have that uncomfortable feeling. And because we we especially, you we're you said we're gonna have an entire generation full of it, where they wanna just communicate virtually through their devices, and it and it's sad.
Purna Devi:I think the algorithm also creates these echo chambers, which only perpetuates the duality and the divisiveness. Because if I'm getting everything fed to me through this technology, it is going to continue to narrow, narrow, narrow to what I am already experiencing. So there's no diversity. Right. There's no alternative opinions
Joel Aylor:Right.
Purna Devi:For me to to consider in community. It's just gonna feed me the same thing, which is only gonna
Joel Aylor:It's gonna drive home what you already are.
Purna Devi:Exactly. Exactly. So the so I think it stunts growth in that way. Absolutely. The beauty of diversity in community,
Jeffrey Aylor:it
Purna Devi:just does not challenge that whatsoever.
Joel Aylor:Right. And that's why you see people who are just constantly, you know, putting stuff out there about their opinions. And, you know, they're not they're not considering everybody else's. They're saying this is my opinion, because, yeah, it's just it's rampant. It's everywhere.
Joe Dermody:So I I'm gonna take I'm gonna be the one that takes the other side now. So both. But I'm gonna do both here because my first thing that I have written here about this is the the the reason people are feeling the disconnection is loneliness. Right? So I I agree that it's loneliness, and it's because of the lack of love and personal connection.
Joe Dermody:So I do agree. However, I think that the the technology we have can be a valuable tool. So the the the tool would allow us to connect with many people, right, and many diverse people that we normally wouldn't be able to connect in our local community if it's used correctly. So I think part of
Jeffrey Aylor:it
Joe Dermody:is being able to get the knowledge and the education on how to communicate with those other people and then have the will to do so. Okay? The other side of it too that I've been thinking about as we're communicating here right now is with Reiki. So, you know, a lot of people are like, well, you can't have that physical connection. You can't share the energy that you've got around when you're all together.
Joe Dermody:Well, I've learned that that's not true because I have had Reiki sessions where they have been virtual, and I will tell you, you can share energy at a distance not being there in person with each other. So that is also something that can be learned and taught and experienced remotely. But, again, it's something that we have to learn how to do. So, again, to, you know, your point where we're hybrid beings now, we I think we are. I think this is also something that we could always do, but now it's a it's a mental shift that we have to pick up, teach, and learn how to do in order to be successful at it.
Joe Dermody:So, again, I think that's why we're all here. We're learning something new. We're learning how to hone new skills or forgotten skills, and it'll be interesting. It's an interesting time to be around. We got got some learning to do, some remembering to do.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, just like with anything, it's you know, technology can be a two edged sword. I find that in most every case, the technology, it's used and learned effectively, can be a great it can accelerate. It can actually exponentially increase or improve your ability to connect. And if we truly believe that we are all one. Then that connection exists even if we're not in proximity.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? This is this is the right it. I love proximity because it's easier, but not not every time is that connection within proximity to one another. I'm sorry, but I can feel people all over the world. And I I I what I love about this technology that we're using to create this podcast is it's allowing us to connect with people in multiple countries all over the world.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's not something that I have to say. This is only in this geographical location that this this is touching people. And I think that's wonderful because I I come from a big world anyway. I've traveled extensively. I love travel.
Jeffrey Aylor:I love all the various cultures that I've had the opportunity to experience and the people in them, and that illusion again is of separation. We believe we're separate, and we limit the concept of connecting, right? The problem is when when you outsource, you outsource your thinking, you outsource your reasoning to it, right? And let it dictate to you how you're going to think or what you should think or what information you're going to take in or not take in. And at that point, you've limited the technology.
Jeffrey Aylor:The technology actually, know, AI, we can have just an entire episode on on artificial intelligence, which I believe is just a microcosm of divine intelligence, which is all knowing. To me, it's like a little miniature version of the Akashic records. Right? That that we all actually have the ability to tap into. We just don't do it and don't know how to take advantage of that ability, Or our intent is not true or pure or or clean in the way that we want to do it.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I do think people are outsourcing. They're outsourcing their relationship. Right? Mhmm. And and it's amazing how bold people are when they hide behind technology.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's exactly what porn is dealing with right now. She's dealing with someone who is working at anonymity and through whatever means is bold. They're bold when they're not standing in front of somebody, and they don't have to look like you say, look them in the eye and and and stand up and defend a position that they're that they're taking. At this point, they put you on the defense and they just sit back and and and kind of enjoy the circus that they've created. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:And unfortunately, I think that is that specific circumstance pointed that I think you're going through is the result of somebody who's experiencing this modern loneliness and has a very deep internal issue, and they're projecting they're projecting horribly out. Right? And it and it's unfortunate, but it, you know, They picked the wrong target. You
Purna Devi:know, I like amen to that. Right. They, you know, they thought that they were gonna break us. They they they picked the wrong witch to take to the gallows, so to speak, because the community is showing up, 10 toes down. So that's a beautiful thing.
Purna Devi:But I like how Joe mentioned, you know, the other side of this. And I think that technology in these connections, because again, we're here in this platform, right, connecting via technology. And so I think it's in addition to, right, not as a replacement of these also organic relational experiences we we need as pack animal.
Joel Aylor:Right. Use it to augment, not to replace.
Purna Devi:Yeah. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. Again, I don't like to see people totally outsource. Right? They're outsourcing.
Joel Aylor:Right. They're outsourcing their relationships.
Jeffrey Aylor:Relationships, and that's not going to work for you long term. Mean, we've seen it. We've seen this issue in business where people want to outsource knowledge and capabilities, and what happens is they lose their total identity. They lose their identity as an organization or as a business Mhmm. Because now they no longer have that knowledge internal to themselves.
Jeffrey Aylor:They've given it away. We've given it away, and and that's that can be dangerous to your experience and your and to the fulfillment of your life and your being and and such. I want to I want to jump into this next question because I and I think Joel, you've actually alluded to it already, and that's the concept of vulnerability. Because it's very difficult to be in true community and not allow if you if you can't be vulnerable and open and express feelings and thoughts and experiences with people, then they really don't know you, to be very honest. They see a version of what you're trying them trying to show them, but they don't know they really don't know you.
Jeffrey Aylor:So why? Why is it sometimes so difficult to allow ourselves to be truly known?
Purna Devi:I think because we have these cultural and religious programs and conditionings that have us rejecting parts of ourself. And so if I am to be truly seen, that means I have to first stop disowning these parts of myself that through my purity culture conditioning or my religious conditioning or my, you know, familial conditioning tell me is wrong. So there there has to be a level of self acceptance so that I can show up and be seen in my vulnerable essence that is that is more whole and less fragmented.
Joel Aylor:It hits me on the head. In order to not feel vulnerable, you have to know who you are first. Because if you don't know if you're not comfortable with yourself, you're really gonna be very uncomfortable trying to be yourself to somebody else. So you have to know who you are and be comfortable with it and sit with yourself, know who you are, be okay with the good and the bad. Otherwise, it's gonna be very uncomfortable in the interaction you have with somebody else.
Joe Dermody:And and why is that difficult? Because it takes time and effort. It's not easy. We don't most people don't know how to do that. So, yeah, it's hard.
Joe Dermody:We just don't know how.
Joel Aylor:Right. And and the programming and and all that conditioning that we have is, you know, all that shame built around who we are. We think we have to be something specific, but it's okay to be who you are right now. And whatever you've got going on inside yourself is okay. And we we but we're not okay sitting with that.
Joel Aylor:We're not okay sitting in in that shame or not even shame because, I mean, the shame is all self inflicted.
Joe Dermody:Right. You
Purna Devi:know, since it keeps coming up, this situation that I'm going through, right, this person is writing letters and claiming I'm doing certain things and also has woven truths. Right? I have a criminal history. I've done really stupid things, and I've paid the price for them. And, you know, I've gone through really human suffering, and I've made human mistakes.
Purna Devi:And part of this person's angle is that that makes me a fraud in the healing community. And I want right? I I just want to express how deeply interesting that is as it comes up in this conversation because everyone has reflected to me, that's why we love you. Because you're human. Right?
Purna Devi:And I always joke that the greatest healers, you know, are are the greatest sinners. Right? The the most prolific saints have been through hell and back. We have been with the shadow. We know that place well.
Purna Devi:And because we have come out on the other side and we don't judge and we love unconditionally because there's nothing you can tell me that you've done that I don't that I hold judgment against. So those are the safest places, I think. And sometimes these experiences make us the best space holders and healers, because we know what it's like to live in shame, to be shamed, to own our mistakes, and to heal from those and then to hold space for others to do that too.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's interesting because when I left the religious group that I had been raised among, had been ordained among, who served for many, many years, a primitive Baptist family of people. We we went after that, and I I got a little backstory because, you know, my wife my wife and I, after our daughter was killed in a car accident, we went different directions. We've always gone in different directions to be very honest over forty three years, religious wise and and beliefs and various things like that, which is okay, and we accept that. We accept that we have different we're in different places and positions and have different experience. But at that point, she was not able to go to church.
Jeffrey Aylor:She could not. She just wasn't there. She was angry with God, to be very honest. And and I get that.
Joel Aylor:Fair. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? So after all the years that I, you know, I was going to church, she was not going. Well, I I I just knew it was time. It was time for me to do and go and be out in the world. If what I believe was what I was seeing was true, then I needed to have it out in the world and not not in this tiny little group of of people that In your silo.
Jeffrey Aylor:I was in my silo, and I was comfortable because that's what I knew, blah blah blah blah blah. So I'm like, okay. I'm getting out of that, and I'm gonna go into the world and just spread my wings a little bit. And so we we started going to an evangelical church here locally, and, you know, and my wife really enjoyed that. She enjoys that, the social elements, the social aspects of that.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, one of the things that they did that was new to me was new not something I would have done among a primitive Baptist people was called a community group, a community group, and it's ended up being a wonderful experience because quite honestly, even though many of us now don't even attend that church, we still consider ourselves a community group, and we we love each other, and we support each other, and we we we accept each other's position even as they change. And this is one of the parts I think people struggle with in community is you've got to allow people to change. People have to be able to change and grow and learn, and and it's Okay that they go and have this experience, whether it's good, bad, doesn't matter. They're learning this. Life is all about learning and you know, so to me, the hard part about that, though, was this to do that?
Jeffrey Aylor:You have to be vulnerable. You have to open up and let people know what you think and what you believe. Well, let me tell you what I. My belief system was totally different than everybody in this community group. I knew it.
Jeffrey Aylor:I knew going in, but I was going to be who I was and I was going to share what I thought and what I believed. And you know what It's it is even though this group no longer is formally together, we are all informally together, and they allowed me to share. They allow and all the things we're talking about were things I would bring up, and a lot of them from an evangelical point of view would look at me like I had two heads and a tail. And but still, they allowed they allowed me to share that, and in many cases, I think a lot of us have grown over these several years that we've been together. And I think that's the purpose of this podcast.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's the purpose of this work that we're trying to do. It there is no I don't have all the answers. I don't. I don't. I'm seeking.
Jeffrey Aylor:I want to know. I learn by talking and communicating with people. All of you teach me something every time we get together. Every time. I wanna
Joel Aylor:say you lucked into a good group of people there, but it's not really luck. I think it happened on per
Jeffrey Aylor:Oh, totally. Totally.
Joel Aylor:You had a you had a group of people who were extremely emotionally mature, who were search seeking themselves. They just didn't actually have anybody to push them to to continue asking the questions the way they felt it, but they were open to everything. They may not always agree with where you were or what you were talking about, but they considered it. They had digested themselves and and, you know, and looked to see if it was true.
Jeffrey Aylor:So what is the glue? What is the glue that held that together? It's love. It's it's unconditional love. If they knew even though my position was significantly different than what they believe, they know that I was coming at it from a position of love.
Joel Aylor:Right. And they allowed that group basically allowed disagreement. It didn't it didn't affect how you how you viewed one another as humans. You you're okay to disagree, but still get along. And yeah.
Joel Aylor:And that's one thing that's we struggle with in this world. It's very divisive. And if you don't agree with what I think, then I have nothing to do with you. I can't be around you. I can't talk to you.
Joel Aylor:I can't can't participate. That is not how this is supposed to be. You're allowed to disagree, but that does not change your humanity.
Joe Dermody:But you guys felt like you belonged in that group and you just didn't fit in. Right? So because you didn't have you didn't have requirements to be in that group. You guys
Joel Aylor:We No. That yeah. That's more group.
Joe Dermody:That's right.
Jeffrey Aylor:But the thing is I still fit in. Mhmm. I still fit in. Although I was it was obvious that I've always been different, though. I've had to know that about myself.
Jeffrey Aylor:My personality is different. It's very, very unique. Was probably one of the greatest awakening. One of the earliest parts of my awakening processes when I was came to the understanding that I have a very unique personality.
Joel Aylor:And
Jeffrey Aylor:I am who I am, I'm not going to apologize for it. But I acknowledge that I know I'm different. I know that. And I, you know, so but they but again, it love is the foundation. If you if you do these things and we're going to touch on this and some of the other questions we'll dip, we'll get into.
Jeffrey Aylor:But it really is love is the essence or the glue. That that is what allows unity to happen. That's why after this first season unity in this podcast series, the next season is love, and it's not just love, it's about unconditional love. There's a difference, big difference, and we'll obviously dig into that very deeply in the next next season. So let's let's I really want to talk about authentic, you know, being authentic in community.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's more than agreement. It's it's more than just being in agreement with you. You have to be present. In this community, right? And people have to feel safe.
Jeffrey Aylor:They have to feel like the space that you're in is in this community is a safe place, right? So what what qualities create a safe place for people to feel safe enough to be authentic or to be vulnerable or to be? Open in a way that allows that community to thrive?
Purna Devi:You know, I think we've already touched on so many of the ingredients required for safe spaces. Right? We know that belonging does not require sameness. It requires us to stay connected when we disagree. We honor one another's humanity and the diversity of that humanity, but that doesn't mean we always agree with one another, but I can hold space because I hold space for my belief system, and I can hold space for your belief system.
Purna Devi:So I think it requires one, each individual person feeling safe within themselves so that we can show up with that v word vulnerability and to allow other people to show up in theirs. Right? So there's a level of non judgment in that sense of belonging and in that sense of safe space that I can say something that you might not agree with, but you're not gonna disconnect from me. You're not going to shame me. You're not going to pull the plug on my humanity.
Purna Devi:Right? We can still be in relation to one another and not always see eye to eye, but have that unconditional loving presence there.
Joel Aylor:Exactly. The safest environments aren't the ones without mistakes. It's the one where the where if the mistakes happen, it doesn't threaten my belonging. So, basically, you you can be yourself. And an example of that I've got a little small example of that, honestly, is the little soccer team that I coach.
Joel Aylor:And this little group of girls who basically are, you know, learning the sport, they're learning to to be a a unit, but you need to come learning to come together. But they make mistakes sometimes, but they're always worried about their performance. Is that gonna threaten anything? Are they gonna be mad at me for it? Is my coach gonna be upset?
Joel Aylor:You know, they make a mistake, and they look at me right away. And they're looking to make sure that they're still okay, and it's usually it's always you have to stay positive. You know, kids are very vulnerable in that state, and they wanna know, am I doing this right? And if I make a mistake, is that okay? Yes.
Joel Aylor:You know, you have to be I always joke and say coaching is, you know, part coaching the sport, part therapist. It's kind of a mix. You have to help I mean, they they have big emotions, and they're they're trying to process it. And they're always goes. Right?
Joel Aylor:They're always wanting to know, do I belong? And when they do feel safe, this team has blossomed. They come together. They they get in a big circle. They they cheer for one another.
Joel Aylor:They take care of each other. If somebody does do something that doesn't is a mistake, they pick each other up. They're always there, and it's it's amazing what you can do when you create that safe space.
Purna Devi:Let's look at the other side of that. Right? Let's look at the coaches that scream and yell when the child is looking to them to know it's okay to fall, it's okay to make a mistake? What shame is centered? So as we're talking about what creates safe spaces, let's talk also about, you know, what creates unsafe spaces and its situations like that.
Purna Devi:Absolutely.
Joe Dermody:Well, let's think about that even if you take it into the workspace. Right? Not only a little league team, but as adults in a workspace. Right?
Joel Aylor:Mhmm.
Joe Dermody:When you're learning something new at work or in life in general. Right? When you have a team around you and a boss or a manager that encourages you to learn new things and have a successful team around you, man, it's so much more fun to go into that place and learn new things versus a boss that is, you know, that that yelling coach that just tells you to get it done and those new things at you, but doesn't give you the training or learning on how to do it. Right? And I don't care how old you are.
Joe Dermody:You still want that support. You still want that positive feedback. You still want that supportive team around you. Right? It doesn't matter where you're at.
Joe Dermody:So it could it's not just a young kid learning a new sport. It's anybody that's learning anything new or trying to to develop something new.
Jeffrey Aylor:So Well, that's why I wanna apply that here in this community of awakening and the creation of a whole different Earth than what we currently experience. And it's we all know that there's a significant amount of individual inner work that has to happen, but if it can be done in community,
Joe Dermody:and
Jeffrey Aylor:you have that people that are willing to listen, people that are willing to support you, people that are willing to let you have your because your experience is different than theirs, but be able to express that and be present with you and share their thoughts and their feelings about what they're going through, which is what we're doing here, very honestly. It's going to help people do the difficult inner work that it's going to take them to that will ultimately change the earth, the world that we're in today, which is what this is all about. This is why I believe the universe, the divine, is motivating us to do this, to create this content, to create these podcasts and books and classes that we're ultimately going to be creating, is to give people and to teach people how to do this in a safe way and with other people so that they they know they're not alone. You're not alone in this. What you're feeling is not unique.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's not it's not bad. It's it may be different, but it's not bad. Right? And and everybody here, every one of us has value. We all have something to contribute to this.
Jeffrey Aylor:All of us. That's why it I love the fact that we are a diverse group. Just the five or four of us when we're together is a very diverse group of people with a wide range of experience and knowledge. And if you're listening to this, I think you'll sense that. And you're going to resonate with one of the four or five of us because of where you are.
Jeffrey Aylor:And hopefully it makes you feel safe as you're listening to. Oh, wait, I'm not. I had that same thinking. I feel the same way. And if that if one person if we touch one person through this.
Jeffrey Aylor:To me, that's value, and that makes this all worthwhile. So listening obviously is critical, you know, in creating this environment. If people aren't willing to listen and actively listen. We've touched on that, I think a few times and recognize that everybody has something they can contribute. Everybody does.
Jeffrey Aylor:So Purney and your healing work and in the communities that you've specifically created, what have you seen that allows people to feel safe enough to to do what we're doing to be open and and to connect or reconnect if they feel that they're not connected?
Purna Devi:You know, I think in the spaces that I've curated over the years and been a part of over the years, what I notice is especially in groups that meet more than once, right, the first session, everyone it tends to be internal. They're not gonna express as much vulnerability. They're taking the temperature of the space, of me as a space holder of the other participants. And then what we see as we show up over and over and over, the guard begins to come down for some of them. There is a relation ability.
Purna Devi:Right? A like, there's a sense of again, we we tend to feel alone in our suffering. You know, it's this interesting psychological phenomenon, right, that that I'm suffering, and I'm the only one suffering this thing, and no one else on the planet in history has suffered this experience. And we start sharing and we realize, oh my gosh. Like you just said, you know, Jeff.
Purna Devi:Oh, you too. You mean it's not just me. And so I think sometimes a sense of belonging comes from a sense of shared suffering, right? Joel touched on that and the the shared humanity. And so we begin to there's always one person in the group that tends to be the icebreaker that begins to step out of their comfort zone and and become comfortable with being uncomfortable and being seen.
Purna Devi:And then that usually starts to open folks up. So I think one thing is consistency, repetition. Continue showing up. Right? We don't like, we talked to Jeff before the podcast.
Purna Devi:We don't pick up the instrument and learn to play immediately. There's something about showing up time and time again in shared spaces that allows us to practice, lift that weight of becoming vulnerable and allowing yourself to be seen. And then you look around, you're like, wait, nothing happened. Right? Just like the child that falls on the field and looks to Joel, And he's there lovingly.
Purna Devi:And so wait, okay, nothing happened. I'm safe. I can do this again.
Jeffrey Aylor:Get back up.
Purna Devi:I can I can get back up? Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:So in my organizational development, training and experience, there's something we call the stages of group development, right? So you have forming, storming, norming, performing. And then if you're a temporary group, you may adjourn, right? If you're standing group, don't, you've discontinued. But what you've described there is the fact that you know, early on, you're forming, you're forming as a you know, you don't really know each other well, because you're feeling each other's knowledge and experiences out and you're trying to understand where you fit in the group, which to be very honest, that's exactly what we've been going through here collectively, right?
Jeffrey Aylor:And it's fun to watch as someone who has experience with it because you can see you can see the group as they learn each other and they learn the strengths and weaknesses of the others, how they pick each other up, they they start they start supporting one another. And I it's funny because I'll watch one of you sometimes struggle with something you want to say, and then someone else will kind of say, hey, well, know what? And then next thing you know, two together have come up with the right thought. And so now it's getting it's getting through that process of forming storming where you're starting to express your individuality. It may be different.
Jeffrey Aylor:You may have a different opinion than one of the people in the group, and you have to figure out how to make that fit, right? But all of that is managed by a facilitator. So here's what I want to touch on. This is probably the most empowering training I've ever gotten was to learn to be a facilitator, and that's really what I want this awakening heaven on Earth concept to become is to be able to train people how to become a facilitator, how to facilitate people as we're going collectively through the awakening process, so that people can that they can feel comfortable and feel like they're in a safe space and that someone is guiding and helping, and they know that it's a coaching. You're really coaching, right?
Jeffrey Aylor:And that's really Purna and Joel and Joe and Sherry. What we want to build here is is a facilitation learning, teaching people to facilitate this process. And help people get through this because it's not easy. It's not easy If it's done well and done deeply, it's going to be a lot of work and difficult things that you go through.
Joel Aylor:Well, it's uncomfortable because you you lose your sense of belonging. You had an identity that wrapped around something else previously, and it's not fitting how you're feeling. And as you go through that, you lose that identity. You lose that sense of belonging with who you knew before. So it becomes very uncomfortable, very vulnerable, and you have to, you know, fight through that.
Joel Aylor:Otherwise, you're gonna go right
Jeffrey Aylor:back into old habits and old identities. Well, easier to move along the journey when you have people there to support you. And if you do fall, as we've said, someone there to pick you up. You know, the scriptures talk about a twofold cord is strong. A threefold cord is even stronger.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? And when you can bind with one another and and and and have that partnership in in developing, and and to me, it's age in it's it's it doesn't. I'm older than all of you, but I learn from each one of you regardless. So, you know, the it it. There are people who can be much more mature spiritually and be younger.
Jeffrey Aylor:I think that's an important concept to remember. Does age is not the determining factor here.
Joel Aylor:Gray hair is not a crown of wisdom. Not always.
Jeffrey Aylor:Not always. Although in my case, it is.
Joel Aylor:Just all that gray hair?
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm just saying. Yeah. All the gray hair you can't see on my head. This is why it's really good right now if the podcast is probably all audio. Just saying.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? So I do have a face for radio, by the way. So I want I want to kind of take us into this next section because I think it's essential. And this is the misunderstanding that unity requires that everybody be the same. And Porta, you've already touched on this.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, unity actually thrives when there's diversity because it's so much more interesting. It is so much more beautiful. So how how do we learn to create community where people can disagree without disconnecting from each other? That's what we're suffering today. People have different opinions, but they can't stay connected.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's why our world feels like it does today.
Purna Devi:Well, I think, again, it goes back to things we've already touched upon that internal critic and judge. You know, I used to be very judgmental of others, and it's because my inner world was so unsafe, because I was disconnected from my own wholeness. I hadn't accepted my own shadow, my own multi faceted nature. And so the more I can do the inner work of self acceptance and self love, the more that inner critic and that self judge softens so that I can hold safe space and I can reflect and be present for others to come into their own belonging, their own wholeness. And then like an organism, right?
Purna Devi:I am, I'm doing my own thing and you're doing your own thing, but then we create this, this organism and this collective of diverse individuals that are mirroring to one another and present for one another and, you know, strengthening our differences with one another in relation to one another, but we still have our own sense of self. So I'm not gonna lose myself in you and I'm not gonna judge you for being different than me, but rather we can create that commune, that community and that safe space and be unique.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. We have to learn how to disagree without dehumanizing each other. That's what I think we've gotten to in a as a collective. We we tend to think that the other person is not not correct or that they're wrong or that it's not they're not good enough, that we're better than them or whatever it might be, and that's all just judgment. And, yeah, diversity is absolutely huge because community built on sameness isn't gonna survive for long because as soon as something comes along that threatens whatever you are, it's gonna fall apart.
Joel Aylor:Diversity allows communities to be stronger because we realize that, hey. This particular, you know, thing doesn't work, but this person's figured out how to do it differently. And it allows you to learn from that person how to bring that into your life. Because if we were all the exact same, all it would take is one thing to figure out what would make it fail, and every the entire thing fails. So diversity brings strength, and when there's a diverse community, it's usually a lot stronger.
Purna Devi:I may, really quickly sorry, Joe. We just finished up pieces every step by Thich Nhat Hanh in my book club. And there is a section toward the end of the book about interbeing. And he said there there needs to be a new word about interbeing. And he says here, we need the vision of interbeing.
Purna Devi:We belong to each other. We cannot cut reality into pieces. The well-being of this is the well-being of that. So we have to do things together. Every side is our side.
Purna Devi:There is no other side. There is no evil side.
Jeffrey Aylor:Beautiful. Mhmm.
Joe Dermody:Yeah. And I think that just like both of you said, you know, it's you have to have differences, you know, in your community. It will make your community stronger. It makes it allows you to see the same thing from different viewpoints. Right?
Joe Dermody:So that when you have those problems, you have more views, more viewpoints to see the solution. But the problem is is a lot of times, people don't have the skills to work through the solutions together. They get defensive. They get, they they don't know how to understand that when somebody comes with a solution that's not theirs, how to, work through that issue with somebody against the problem. Right?
Joe Dermody:They think that somebody's attacking them then and saying, well, that's not right. That's not how you fix this. And what they need to understand is they need to learn how to work together against the problem and not against each other. Right? There's a good a good book called getting to getting to yes, I believe, is the book title.
Joe Dermody:I don't remember who who wrote it. I'll I'll find it here before the end of this question. But I think that coming at at this to be tough on problems but easy on people is the important thing to think about. Have empathy. Come at things with an open mind.
Joe Dermody:I think really that it and and with come at everything with open community communication.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, what what you just described, though, is the act that is actually the specific role of a facilitator. A a facilitator's job is to take a diverse group of people with a diverse group of thoughts, and to focus them on a common problem or issue and to help them work together to come up with a solution that is acceptable to all. Now, that being said, there's a difference in decision making, you know, consensus does not mean everybody is in full agreement with the ultimate decision. To your point, it's getting people to say yes. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:Now, I I can't have consensus if someone has not had the opportunity to express their different opinion and then say, even though I have a different opinion, I recognize and value the decision being made, and I will support it and not undermine it even though it's different than what I personally would have chosen to do. Now that takes emotional intelligence, emotional maturity, and a facilitator's jobs to help to develop that and work that and to pull that out of people because it's there. They just maybe haven't experienced it yet enough that they they know that. So, again, to me, one and I'm seeing a theme here as I'm going through this myself. I'm learning this morning about the importance of the role and the the process of facilitation and how if we can help grow that and develop that as part of this awakening, heaven on earth, then that is going to be a big, big help to the global awakening that I think we're we're being asked to be a major part of here.
Jeffrey Aylor:So and and a facilitator's job is to allow difference without having division and to protect people in the group from attack. It strengthens diversity because it pulls diversity out of the group. You're pulling thoughts out that other people would not normally have shared through the way you facilitate the discussion. And it's it's about it's about gaining acceptance. Not necessarily full agreement.
Jeffrey Aylor:And being okay. That you can accept the group's decision and not always be in full agreement with what is being done. Right?
Joe Dermody:Again, think through that that whole process as well, everybody's learning. Right? Throughout the whole thing, you get to learn from each other's viewpoints and it just expand the knowledge, right? Well, there's some go ahead.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're right, and you were talking about the book, you know, Getting to Yes. The other type of decision making do you have? You have consensus and then you have what's called concordance. Concordance is when everybody everybody has to say yes. There can be no waffling on the decision.
Jeffrey Aylor:Everybody has to say yes, and if everybody does not say yes, you do not have concordance. You may have consensus, but you don't have concord. So decision making is interesting because this is where we this is where we break apart. When people disagree about decisions that are being made, right? This is splintering.
Jeffrey Aylor:And how do you how do you not splinter when a decision gets made that's different than what you would have personally made on your own.
Joe Dermody:That book, by the way, is by Roger Fisher and William Urie.
Jeffrey Aylor:Great. I love I love it when we can put books out there for people to read. I'm a huge we're all readers, right? Yeah, I think that's important. So let's jump into this last section today talking about, you know, how do we create heaven on earth together?
Jeffrey Aylor:It's it's not something one person can do alone. I can't do this on my own. You can't do it on your own. We have to do it through relationships. We have to do it through community.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's the only way we're going to create. Heaven on Earth is through community and a community that we build together. We have to do it together. So. You know what actions can we take?
Jeffrey Aylor:How do we heal? Community. Today, what what what would our neighborhoods, workplaces and schools and communities look like if they were built around unity rather than competition?
Purna Devi:I think, first and foremost, we come back to a matriarchal sense of support of leadership. And when I say that, it doesn't mean men versus women. We talked about this, Jeff and I did, you know, in a couple podcasts ago with the masculine and feminine. The patriarchal model and especially the toxic patriarchal model that we see systems and organizations under now that we see dismantling is power over. And the matriarchal model is power with.
Purna Devi:And so within the matriarchal model, we centralize the most vulnerable. And so we take care of the underserved in our community. We take care of the vulnerable. We don't see that vulnerability. We don't see the underserved populations in our community as weak individuals.
Purna Devi:We see them as folks that we can help rise up. Right? There's a beautiful organization in Dayton called the House of Bread, and they serve a warm meal three sixty five days a year. And I've done a lot of volunteer work with them over the years, and I'm gonna get my son involved this summer with them. And so I think, you know, what we can actually do in our community is selfless service.
Purna Devi:Everyone has something to give. And in the yogic tradition, they say the quickest way to extinguish our own karmic debts is service to others. And so check-in with yourself and see what you have to give, whether it's time or it's money or it's lending a hand. Right? Maybe you're a builder and you wanna go to Habitat for Humanity and help them build homes.
Purna Devi:But there are ways in which we can support the most vulnerable and centralize them. And I think that will elevate the sense of community and belonging across the board.
Jeffrey Aylor:Before I let Joel answer, I'm gonna have to I have to point out that this week, as I've transitioned from my full time work now into this more full time, I'm gonna be Joel's wife Jessica is gonna be joining as a as a as a part of our group of awakening heaven on earth. It's a nonprofit, and our goal here is to create a model in our own community here in Lebanon initially that's doing exactly what you're talking about, and that is there are a lot of wonderful groups here that do beautiful and wonderful things, but they're all functioning in a silo. There's not someone that is like an umbrella that's pulling them all together to make it easier for those that are in the most vulnerable positions to get access to all of the resources that are actually available they don't know about. And I watched her face light up when she sensed the service and the help that she's going to be able to give in that role. It makes me tear up to think about it because, and I said, this is what church should be.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's service. It's all about the service.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. That's that's what's been lost. It's it's no longer church shouldn't be just, you know, going to church meetings and listening to a specific person preach about something. That's and then you go home and you do go back to your normal day. It it's only happening in that space.
Joel Aylor:And then after you leave that space, so you don't ever carry it out into the world, and it's completely waste of time if you don't actually put it into into into work or into into service. But I think building communities, it doesn't come from from grand gestures. It comes in little moments, you know, checking in on people, asking how they're doing, listening to their conversation a little longer than you want to. You know, I I had that I built community just in a pharmacy with my patients. You know, they're telling me about their health history or their, you know, their parent they're taking care of, whatever it might be, and I'm I'm crazy busy and have things I need to do, but I'll sit there and listen to them.
Joel Aylor:And you build that connection with people, and that's one of the hardest things when I when I left being in an actual pharmacy setting is is those people who I connected with. They still reach out and they ask questions, or if I see them, I I it's just picked up the conversation. So you build community that way. That's just a microcosm of a bigger picture that we're talking about here. But I think you heal community by, you know, having a different mindset of not how do we how do we get ahead, but how do we thrive together?
Joel Aylor:I think that's what kinda you're touching on there. Not that these nonprofits or these other, you know, organizations are are competing with one another, but they're just focused on just themselves.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, in some cases, do because they have a scarcity, somewhat of a scarcity mentality where they think that the resources are limited, and they all have to fight for the same resources. When in reality, if we were to pool all their resources, if we were to pool the capabilities, we will be strong they would be stronger together than they would be individually. Right. And I think that's that's kind of the and and it all has to be built under the correct intention of love and service. And, you know, I think of the concept of no no one in our community should be left behind.
Jeffrey Aylor:Nobody. Nobody. Everybody is sacred. Every human is sacred. You have to be judging them to think that they're not.
Joe Dermody:So the the small little things, I think it's just, you know, build the relationships around you. I know that's not a small thing, but you can start by doing that by meet the people around you. Meet the people in your neighborhood. Meet the people at work. If you haven't met the people who you work with, meet them.
Joe Dermody:Introduce yourself. Right? When when you're walking through your neighborhood, when you're driving through your neighborhood, right, you see people smile, wave. Start building those relationships around you. You know?
Joe Dermody:Say hello. Hold the door for people. Right? Just be kind. Take take the cart from somebody at the grocery store that's walking back.
Joe Dermody:You know? Say, let me let me get that for you. Just do kind gestures in general. You know? When you're, you know, in the neighborhood, it also comes from changing your thinking about what you're doing in different situations.
Joe Dermody:Right? And and just changing your attitude in different different circumstances. You know, in your neighborhood, change your thoughts from this is my property to this is our community. Right? This is our neighborhood.
Joe Dermody:Change your thoughts at the workplace from how do I get ahead to how do we all succeed together. Right? Change your your thought at school. Right? If you're in school from your success doesn't threaten mine, it strengthens it.
Joe Dermody:You know? And then in your community, you know, think we may see differently, but we're not enemies. Right? We're all in this together, and change your mindset about how you see things because we're all one. Right?
Joe Dermody:We need to all start thinking about that and believe in it.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, it's it's the essence of what we're trying to create here. I I'm I'm I'm very excited. I'm very excited about where this is going. I'm excited. I love these conversations, and I think it's it's critical that we get more people into this conversation.
Jeffrey Aylor:And as we bring conversation to a close, you know, maybe we need to understand that belonging is not something we find. It's really something that we create. We create it. We are creators. If belonging is the way you think versus separation, if connection is the way you think and feel, and it's the way you use words, which we know are spells, it'll be magical how connection will happen every time we listen to someone, every time we welcome somebody, every time we choose to be curious instead of judgmental.
Jeffrey Aylor:There's the Ted Lasso statement, right? We create more space for others to come home. So Perna, Joel, Joe, as always, thank you so much for sharing this space this morning and this time. And to everyone listening, I hope that you can remember, if nothing else, you are not alone. I love the song that we've got from the Unity album, you are not alone.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's the first song on the album, and it means so much. So I hope you'll take some time maybe to go out and download the Unity album off of either iTunes or Spotify or Amazon or YouTube, and listen to that, and know that you belong. You belong. Everybody has purpose and value, and together, we become a community. The community that we have been seeking and searching for, and with that the space between continues.
Jeffrey Aylor:As we come to a close, remember that this journey continues in many expressions. This podcast is part of a family of partner podcasts. Awakening heaven on earth, the space between heaven and earth, and living heaven on earth are three companion podcasts exploring spiritual awakening from complementary perspectives. Awakening Heaven on Earth offers the core teachings and mystical reflections on unity, love, and conscious living. The space between creates room for dialogue, reflection, and lived conversation around those teachings.
Jeffrey Aylor:Living heaven on earth focuses on basic spiritual practices that help embody these insights in daily life. Together, they form a unified journey of understanding, experience, and integration, inviting listeners to remember their connection with the divine, with one another, and with the living world. You can find all of them available on the same podcast streaming platforms wherever you listen. And if music helps carry these teachings deeper into the heart. The Unity.
Jeffrey Aylor:Awakening Heaven on Earth album is available on all major music streaming services as a musical companion to this journey. Wherever you engage, through listening, reflection, conversation, or music. May it gently remind you, you are not separate. You belong to the one life and heaven is already unfolding within you. Until next time.
Jeffrey Aylor:Walk gently, love deeply, and embody heaven on earth.