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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
Kaley Olson:
Well, hello, everyone. Thanks for tuning into The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Kaley Olson, and I'm here with my co-host for today,
Amanda Bacon. Hey.
Amanda Bacon:
Hey, Kaley. How are you?
Kaley Olson:
I'm doing great.
Amanda Bacon:
Well, guys, our teacher for today is Rachael Groll from Hearing Jesus podcast, and it was such a treat to have her on the show. In just a moment, you'll hear her give a message on the topic of uncomfortable obedience.
Kaley Olson:
OK, I'm going to challenge her ... Well, first of all, if you clicked on the title of this episode, then there's a good chance you knew what you were getting yourself into.
Amanda Bacon:
That's right.
Kaley Olson:
But after you hear Amanda say that, you're like, Do I really want to listen to this? I would challenge you to lean in, because Rachael humbly and lovingly but very convictingly, in a good way ... convictingly — is that a word? I'm just going to pretend that it is! — helps us understand how obedience works. And I loved it. I'm going to come back —
Amanda Bacon:
Yeah, keep going. Keep playing this.
Kaley Olson:
I'm going to come back to this episode, because it was really good. But here's the thing: Whenever you listen to a teaching on obedience, it's very tempting to say, "OK, what do I do next? Obviously, God is calling me out of my comfort zone. I don't know what to do." So as always, guys, we have a free resource that's going to equip you, after you listen to this episode, that we've linked in the show notes. It's called “A Guide to Stepping Out in Faith.” It was written by Lysa TerKeurst, and this guide is going to give you the direction you need so that no matter where you are, no matter what God has called you to, you can take the first step of obedience.
And like I said, you can download that for free, linked in the show notes. And you guys know that Proverbs 31 Ministries is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to help you know the Truth and live the Truth, because we believe it really does change everything. That's why we not only offer this podcast for free; we also provide free resources like this “A Guide to Stepping Out in Faith” so that you're equipped right now to better know and understand God's Word and apply it to your life. Well, Amanda, speaking of knowing God's Word, today's episode will help you do just that, so let's dive in. All right, friends, I am so excited to welcome our guest for today's episode. We have Rachael Groll with us. Rachael, will you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
Rachael Groll:
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. I am a missionary and an author and a podcaster and someone who just really has a heart for helping point women back to Jesus and helping them hear God's voice more clearly. And so that kind of fleshes out in a variety of ways, and right now, it's the season of podcasting.
Kaley Olson:
That's amazing.
Amanda Bacon:
Well, Rachael, we're so glad to have you on the show. And we just thought we would get started with a fun question if you're up for it. You ready?
Rachael Groll:
Sure.
Amanda Bacon:
OK. So let's say you are at the beach. Would you rather be sitting in a comfy chair, reading a book in the sun, or would you rather be playing in the water?
Rachael Groll:
I would rather be snorkeling, and that is assuming we're in someplace that has a reef, like Maui or something like that, that you can actually see the fish, but that's where my preference would be.
Amanda Bacon:
I love that.
Kaley Olson:
Honestly, Rachael, I'm so glad that you answered that question this way, because that really does tell a lot about a person.
Amanda Bacon:
It does.
Kaley Olson:
And I'm going to be honest. When I go to the beach — I am almost 33 years old and I still — if the Florida water is clear enough, I will put on a pair of goggles and dive down and see the fishies in the shallow water and play. Because I like reading every now and then, but the beach and the waves were meant for being tossed and thrown around, and I just have too much fun there, and I'm glad that you like to have fun in the water too.
Amanda Bacon:
That's right. And you can read anywhere; you can read on your couch. But you can't play in the ocean from your couch.
Kaley Olson:
That's very true.
Amanda Bacon:
So I agree, Rachael. I've been snorkeling in Maui, and it is absolutely like nothing else. It is gorgeous.
Rachael Groll:
Yeah. The only problem is it ruins you for all other beaches.
Amanda Bacon:
It does.
Rachael Groll:
I have such high standards now.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, yeah. I've never been there, but maybe I should go. I really have no idea how to segue well from talking about Maui into what Rachael is going to talk about, but we're just going to go for it. Rachael, you are here on the show today because you're passionate about equipping and challenging women to walk in the area of obedience, and that's what you're here to talk with us about today. And so I'm excited, and honestly — I'm going to be honest, Amanda — I'm a little nervous sometimes, whenever obedience is talked about, but, Rachael, I know that this is a message that you live out and that God has been challenging you in for years and years. And so I can't wait to hear how you're going to challenge us in this area today. So why don't you go ahead and take it away.
Rachael Groll:
Yeah, thank you so much. And just like a disclaimer at the beginning to say: I don't have this all figured out. I think sometimes when we teach things, it's from this place of knowing, because God has already walked us through that, but obedience is one of those things where it's not like, OK, you get your mind wrapped around it, and then you just understand it, and you're obedient for the rest of your life. It's one of those things that the Lord constantly has to challenge us on, and that's why we need Jesus, and that's why we need the Holy Spirit, because it is so hard for us to be obedient, especially when obedience is uncomfortable. And that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today, of this idea of obeying God when it's uncomfortable, because I think it's really easy for us to obey God when it feels good or when it's easy for us, right?
It's easy for me to make a casserole for a friend who is having a baby. It is easy for me to be a good mom and show up and make cookies for the class. Those are things that I can do to serve that are easy; they fit within my wheelhouse. They don't require too much of me as far as time or cost or energy. Those things are easy, and I don't even know that I would call them obedience. It's just an overflow of my personality or my circumstances. It's kind of my nature, but I think it's something else when we start talking about how God calls us to obedience, and obedience is rarely comfortable. And that's the thing I think is hard for us to recognize and resonate with, because that's the lifestyle that God calls us to, and the enemy would want to keep us bound in that area, just because of our emotions around it.
And so I think there's really two parts to obedience. I think the first part is hearing and discerning God's voice. And then the second part is actually obeying God's voice. And so if I could unpack the first part for a minute: When we're talking about hearing or discerning God's voice, one of the things that I realized early on in my career, and I have worked all over the place, so if we're talking about the bush in Africa, or Brooklyn, New York, or the local church, it seemed to me that women had this common insecurity of knowing whether it was the Lord's voice that was speaking to them, their own emotions, or their own thoughts that was speaking, or even the voice of the enemy.
And so there was this lack of confidence in this area that I was hearing from women all over the world, quite frankly, and it's something that I myself have struggled with over time. And so as I started to really seek the Lord on this, and I really wanted to be able to answer that question from this place of really knowing — knowing God's Word, knowing the Holy Spirit, knowing how God had operated in my own life. I think there are a couple of things that I have learned in that process that are really helpful when we're talking about obedience. I think that it's really helpful to remember that the primary way that God speaks to us is through God's Word. And so if we're trying to discern if it's God's voice, I think primarily the first place to look is Scripture, because God's voice will never contradict God's Word. And I think we sometimes forget about that aspect. I think when we are struggling over something and we're trying to discern "OK, is God telling me to do this or is He not?" sometimes we forget to look at God's Word.
And the enemy always has a counterfeit for what God's version is in our lives. And so the enemy will always try to convince you that it wasn't God's voice or to call you into sin because he wants you to experience this counterfeit version for your life. And so the reality is if we can stay inside God's Word and we can stay close to God's Word and we don't manipulate God's Word, that's a really important part, because I think sometimes what I have heard in a lot of churches or in a lot of small groups is, "What does this passage or what does the Scripture mean to me?" And I think that is faulty, because it's really not about what it means to me. It's about what does it actually mean? What was the original intention of the author then when he wrote that?
Because while the Bible was written for us, it was not originally written to us. It was written to this ancient people group that existed far away in time and space. It was an agrarian society, so they understood all the references to farming and those kinds of things. And so we have to go back, and we have to read within the context. What's it say before it? What's it say after it? Because it's really important for us to recognize what the intention of that text was, because the intention of that text reveals God's character and God's nature, and that's the thing that doesn't change. And so we have a danger when we are looking to the people of Scripture and trying to emulate them or look for their example, because God is always the hero in the story.
Every biblical character you can think of in Scripture ... the only reason they're a biblical hero is because of what God was doing in their lives. And so God is really the hero in the story. So when we look for His character and His nature, it helps us understand how to hear His voice, because that doesn't change. And I think the other thing that's really important and has been really helpful for me is understanding: Is this the voice of condemnation? Or is this a voice of conviction? Because the voice of condemnation will always be from the enemy. That enemy is the one that wants to convict you and to condemn you. It's the voice of the Holy Spirit ... I'm sorry; I need to rephrase that.
It's the voice of the enemy that will always condemn you, and it's the voice of the Holy Spirit that may convict you. And I think a really good example for this is ... I think a lot of your listeners are moms. One of the things that this really resonated with me and how this kind of fleshed out in my own life was when I knew that God was calling me into full-time ministry, but I was experiencing the mom guilt of not being home and present 100% of the time with my kids. And God ... As God was calling me, the enemy was trying to condemn me in that area. And I had to take a step back and realize, "OK, what is God saying in this scenario?" And realizing that the conviction that I needed to step out in obedience and trust Him to do what He can only do with my kids and laying them down, not making them idols but prioritizing my relationship with the Lord over my relationship with the kids. That's really hard to do, but it was in that step of obedience that I really saw Him at work.
And so that brings me to part two, which is this obedience portion, because once we figure out what God is saying, and we have confidence in this area of what God is telling us to do or what He's calling us to, then there's this obedience portion, and it's that obeying what God has said. And this is what I started to say at the beginning of the episode. Obedience is rarely comfortable. I think of a time in my life where — this was probably 15 years ago; it was before I was on staff at a church or even in ministry, but I had a heart to serve. And so I served in lots of different ways, mostly in hospitality or MOPS or those kinds of things.
And the youth pastor ... It was a tiny little church we were going to. And he said to me, "Rachael, I have a favor to ask of you." And I said, "Oh, tell me what it is, of course." And he said, "Well, don't say yes, because it's a big ask. I want you to hear what it is first." And I thought through my heart to serve, I thought through my heart for the people, I thought through my heart for the church, and I just said, "Oh, whatever it is, that's a yes.”
And he said, "Well, there's a woman who lives not too far away from you, and she needs a ride to church." And just off the top of my head, I said, "Oh yeah, that's not a big problem." And he said, "Well, I need to tell you where she lives." And when he told me where she lives, honestly, my heart just sank. And I got this sickening feeling in my stomach because she was living in a part of town that was notorious for being dangerous. It was where a lot of the low-income housing projects were. It's a place that I avoided. It was like the bad part of town that you never drive through. And then when he told me who it was, I knew exactly who she was, and honestly, I'm ashamed to say that I said no.
I said no for a variety of reasons. Number one, it was really uncomfortable. I knew that because of who she was, she was probably going to have lice or not be bathed, and she was going to look different and smell different and talk different and act different, and I just thought, I don't want to expose my kids to that. And I will tell you that when I said, "No," thankfully the Lord provided somebody else who said "yes." But that's stuck with me, because the Lord started to work in my heart, and He said, "Rachael, I've called you to obedience even when it's not comfortable." And I wrestled with it so much, because it was like a status thing for me. As women, I think we fall into that: What are people going to think about me if I show up anywhere with this woman? Or what if she wants to be my friend?
As I started to really surrender those things to the Lord, He started to work on my heart. I am so thankful that I'm not the same person now as I was when that happened. And of course I loved the Lord, but it was really at the beginning stages of when He started to call me to ... Obedience. And as I started to wrestle with that and just feel ... Again, it wasn't condemnation but was conviction; the Lord was convicting me in my heart about that. He said, "Rachael, there's a task that I have for you." And the verse that God put on my heart in that season has become my life verse. It's Jeremiah 15:19, and I love how the NASB[1995] words it; it says, "Therefore, thus says the Lᴏʀᴅ, 'If you return, then I will restore you—Before Me you will stand; And if you extract the precious from the worthless, You will become My spokesman." And that began these beginning stages of God changing my heart to “extract the precious from the worthless.”
And that's not to say that this woman was worthless. In fact, she's precious in God's eyes. But I am ashamed to admit I felt like she was worthless. I didn't see her worth the way that God did. And so God started to change my mind and change my heart and open my eyes to the things that broke His heart, and that became my prayer. And so much so that over the course of the next couple of years, I went into children's ministry full time, and then I eventually went into outreach ministry, doing missions work both locally and globally. And now those are my people: the broken and the hurting and the lost.
And so I've had the amazing privilege of working in garbage dumps in Africa and telling people and children about Jesus or going to the prisons in Kenya or going to the hospitals where people cannot pay their bills or whatever the variety of things are that God has called me to. But it's being in the room with people that look different and act different and smell different and talk different, all the things that I was so hesitant with her, that's become the mission field that God has put me in.
And so when I think about this in terms of what the great commission is — I think we can all say, "Yes, we are familiar with the great commission." Let me just read it. It's Matthew 28:16-20; it says, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (NIV). I used to make this assumption that the Great Commission was about making converts. And so with an evangelistic heart, I would go face forward, and I would go nonstop, and I would try to tell people about Jesus and pray for them to have salvation and come to faith in Christ.
But the Lord started really convicting me of this, and He said, "It's not about making converts; it's about making disciples." And part of making disciples is teaching what obedience is. And so then in Matthew 5:16, another verse that kind of goes along with this; it says, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in Heaven" (NIV). And so as I was kind of going through this in this stage of my life, and what God has taught me over and over is there's these words in Scripture that I like to call the “one anothers.” And I know that you're all familiar with them. It's throughout the Scripture. So it's things like, "Love one another," from John 13:34, or "Be devoted to one another" in Romans 12:10, or "Honor one another," or "Live in harmony with one another" in Romans 12:16, or "Build up one another" in Romans 13, or "Accept one another," in Romans 15:7, or "Cheer for one another," in 1 Corinthians 12.
And of course the list goes on and on, to serve one another, to bear one another's burdens, to forgive, to be patient, to be kind and compassionate, to consider others better than yourselves, to teach, to comfort, to encourage, to exhort. The list goes on and on. And so how does that look in our everyday lives? Well, I think it helps us understand: 1) How are we to treat each other — even people who are different from us, even people who God calls us to love that feels uncomfortable? It also helps us understand what we're called to do. We're called to love one another, even if they don't smell good or they don't live in the right part of town or if it's not comfortable. And it's not so much when it fits our lives or when it fits our budgets, but it's really in response to God's call on our lives.
And the reality is we're all called to this ministry of reconciliation. Whether you think you're called to full-time ministry or not, we're called to the ministry of reconciliation, which is making Jesus known. It's to know Him and to make Him known. And because that's our calling as believers, we know that that's what God has called us to do; that's going to look different in each of our lives. The need often is the call. And so the need that you guys see in your lives is different than the need that I see in my life, but often what God does is He reveals a need to us because He wants us to help meet that need.
And so one of the things that I think is a really practical, easy way and one of my favorite ways is to identify something that maybe is something you've thought about or prayed before, but in our life, for our family, one of the ways we do this is by partnering with Compassion International. And if you're not familiar with Compassion, which I think your audience probably is, Compassion is in the work of global orphan care and meeting their needs holistically with the gospel and medical care and medicine and education and all of those things.
And I love this idea of partnering with Compassion because it's something that our entire family can be involved in. We can all write letters, and we can all minister to these children who we're sponsoring, but it's understanding that there's this call to obedience even when it costs us something or even when it's uncomfortable. It's a little bit uncomfortable in this stage of the economy and everything else, when grocery prices are up, to make a commitment to that monthly sponsorship fee. But what I can say is God’s math is different than our math.
And so it costs us something to sponsor a child. Absolutely. But the benefit of seeing ... I was actually just writing a letter to one of my sponsored children today, and she was praying for me, and she was telling me that she loved me, and it just touched me so much because I don't even know this child, but yet seeing the impact that my words, just sending a Bible verse or telling her I'm praying for her ... it made such an impact for her. And so in our lives, that's what it's looked like. It's looked like doing something that costs us something, that is a little bit uncomfortable, that challenges us and gets us outside of that comfort zone but is being obedient to what God has called us to do.
And so I think the encouragement there is, thinking through maybe some things, whether it's Compassion or some other area in your life that God is calling you to serve in: When was the last time you served someone who was outside of your comfort zone, who didn't already fit in with your lifestyle or things that were easy for you? When was the last time you allowed the Lord to stretch you? And also, recognizing that it's OK if your heart is not there right now. I think the first step is being willing to allow your heart to get there and just being honest with God and saying, "God, I'm not there. I'm not there right now, but I want to get there. Will you help me get there?" I think there's this raw honesty in those kinds of prayers that the Lord meets us in.
And then also, how do we handle those times when we're not obedient? Do we allow it to teach us something, for God to change our hearts? Because I think the reality is God gives us grace. Of course, His first choice for us would be for us to be obedient the first time. But also, it helps us to remember in those moments, because then the next time the opportunity comes up to be obedient, we'll remember that, we'll remember what we did or we didn't do, and then God can use those moments, so we don't allow it to happen again. And instead of allowing the enemy to distract us from what God wants us to do, instead we can lean in and ask God for the faith and the obedience and the strength to do what He's calling us to do.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, I was challenged by this, Rachael, because I think something that challenged me the most was in the first part of your talk, when you were asking the questions, "Is this God? Is it my own thoughts? Is it the enemy?" And then you went through the difference between, "Is this a voice of condemnation or is it conviction?" And how the enemy will condemn, but the Holy Spirit convicts. And I think there are definitely times when it's very easy to know: "This is absolutely something that I should do." But I wanted to ask you, do you think that oftentimes we feel both? And is feeling both condemnation and conviction almost even more ... Does that provide the clarity that it actually is something that we need to do? Does that question make sense? I feel like our listeners might be asking that.
Rachael Groll:
Yeah, and I think that's really common, because if God is calling us to do something, the enemy wants to stop us from doing that. And so it's very common to have both. I think in my own life, the way that I have been able to discern that is by chasing the peace. So if I'm trying to make a decision and I'm feeling both conviction and condemnation, which of these decisions is leading to peace? So in the example of staying home with my kids, it probably would've been a lot easier to stay home with my kids than to go work full time at the church. Absolutely, it would've been easier. But I knew that that's what God was calling me to do.
So I did struggle, and the entire time I've worked outside of the home — thankfully I'm not doing that now — but the entire time for the better part of a decade, there was always that mom guilt, where I was like, "Ooh, I'm missing this, or I'm just not able to be fully present." And so it's not like once I made that decision, the voice of the enemy went away. It was this constant battle. But I think there is the blessing and the gift of the Holy Spirit in that, because the Holy Spirit will confirm those decisions once we made them and empower us and equip us to continue doing the thing that God has called us to do. And so chasing the peace becomes a really important part of that process.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I think, too, because I'm kind of in that same boat that you were in 10 years ago, with having a small kid — well soon to be kids, plural — at home but knowing very clearly that I am exactly where I'm supposed to be, and I constantly have to come back to that place of surrendered obedience when I feel the condemnation, because I know, God — and you said it so well — God will guide your kids, and He will give your kids exactly what they need, and you will do exactly what you need to do, and this is for you in this season.
And I think chasing the peace means staying in God's Word, literally looking for the peace there. But I also think, Rachael, and I don't know if you found this to be true, too, when we're really trying to chase the peace and be obedient to God and follow the Holy Spirit's conviction, we don't need confirmation from other people that we're doing it right. I think one or two other trusted people, like a spiritual mentor or something like that. But I think as women, there's so many decisions that we make, and we go and we chase confirmation from our friends.
But what is so hard about that is: Amanda, you would say one thing to me; Rachael, you would say another thing to me, and this person would say another thing to me. And all of a sudden, I am no longer just holding God's Word in my hand and looking for direction from Him. I'm looking and I'm grasping for peace outside of what Scripture says and looking for someone else to nod to me that this direction I'm heading in is right. And I think the intention is pure. I think our motives are so pure when we do that, because we call it inviting that wisdom in. But I think it delays our obedience, first of all. But I think the second thing it does is it really distracts us from what God is calling us to do, not what He's calling somebody else to do. And it can make us jealous of other people. It can make us unsure. It's territory for the enemy to take. And so I don't know ... that to me is one of the hardest parts about obedience. But, Amanda, I want to know what you're thinking.
Amanda Bacon:
Yeah, here's what I'm thinking: Rachael, as you talk about obedience, I'm thinking of either our listeners who might be struggling with this or maybe did struggle with this or myself as a recovering people pleaser. So my question for you is, what have you learned about potentially saying a really big “yes,” when it maybe should have been a big “no”? Have you learned about ... We were talking about, I said no, and maybe it should have been a yes, but what about when you've said yes, and you realize that it came from a place of not God actually calling you to it but maybe you feeling compelled to do it because you wanted to make people happy?
Rachael Groll:
That's a good question.
Amanda Bacon:
What have you learned about that in your experiences?
Rachael Groll:
Well, I think it's really helpful to remember that none of it is a surprise to God. He knows us. He knows the decisions that we're going to make, and He gives us free will. And so part of that is just like as a parent, when I allow my teenagers — I have teens now — when I allow them to make decisions that I know are bad decisions, but I'm giving them autonomy and allowing them to make some of those decisions but also being there to pick them up when they fall down and recognizing that that's part of the role of a parent. And we know that God is not just a father, but He's a good Father. And so I think sometimes what happens is we've all done that. We've all made those mistakes before, where we've maybe acted on impulse or acted selfishly or just listened to the world more than we listened to God's Spirit.
Because in my life, God tends to ask me to do some really big things that do not tend to make sense to anybody else. And I used to really wrestle with that until I realized that that's just the consistent pattern of how God operates in my life. I mean, there's been lots of times where God has called me to obedience before He showed me the plan. Multiple times. Big things like quitting my job — quitting my job and then two days later being offered another job that was so much better that I could not have done if I was still working the first job, or just different things like ... has happened in my life. So much so that I recognize that pattern in my life now.
But there have certainly been times where I've missed the mark, and I've messed up, and realizing that God is our Father, and He is there in the mess-up. He's there to literally reach down into the mud and pick us up and clean us off and set us back on the right path. He never leaves us. It's not like He ever leaves us alone and says, "Well, you made this decision. That's your bed. You’ve got a lie in it." That's not being a good parent necessarily, I would say. I mean, of course there's consequences that we have to deal with, and there's things that we need to work through, but He's always there as that loving Father who says, "All right, come here, baby girl; let's try it again." And I'm so thankful for that, because my Italian grandparents used to call me Gabbadose, which means “hardheaded”; I have to learn the hard way so many times.
Amanda Bacon:
I was just thinking, too, all of this is learning. All of life is learning; all of decision making is learning, and there's so much grace for that. And one important step when we are tempted to make a decision because of what somebody else might say or think, we have to remember to get down to the core, ask God, Is this really You? And go back to that number one point: hearing and discerning God, God, is this really You asking me to do this? And then if we mess up, if we make a brash or impulsive decision, there's lots of grace for that, and there's always another try.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, yeah.
Rachael Groll:
Absolutely.
Kaley Olson:
I agree with that, Amanda. I think another thing, Rachael, that you started talking about at the end of your teaching, and when you mentioned the “one anothers” in Scripture and you talked about your specific calling to go out on the mission field, and you just mentioned it. You said, "God calls me to do really big things." And I think that in there is a whole lot of truth and a whole lot of what Christians will wrestle with whenever we realize like, "OK, I've been in a season of complacency, and now I want to obey." And we think our next step is to book a plane ticket to Africa and go do the hard thing, because there's scripture in the Bible, like you mentioned it ... it was Matthew 28; is that right?
Rachael Groll:
Mm-hmm.
Kaley Olson:
OK, great.
Rachael Groll:
The Great Commission. Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, the Great Commission, to go and make disciples of all nations. We take that, but we forget, where did Jesus serve when He was here on earth? He served His people right where He was. But I want to speak to the idea of immediately jumping to a big step. You remind me a lot, Rachael, of my friend from Mississippi. Her name is Carly Wagner, and she's like you. She is somebody who God calls to do really amazing things, and her heart is to just love people where they are and get on the streets with them and invite them into their home. I mean, it's amazing the capacity that the Lord has given her. And I look at people like her, or I look at people like you, and I think, Am I missing something? Is my obedience here not enough? Am I doing it wrong? So will you answer the question? Is everybody called to that third-world mission field? Is that something that we are all called —
Rachael Groll:
No. Yeah, I don't think that everybody is called. And I think if you had asked me 15 years ago, I wouldn't have thought that I was called. That's been a natural progression of my obedience to the Lord, but that's because of the missional calling that God has placed in my life. And so I think it goes back to this idea of delayed obedience is disobedience, whatever that looks like in our lives. So whether that is God calling you to go talk to your next-door neighbor or God calling you to go share a message of hope with somebody at the grocery store or to faithfully pray for an unsaved spouse. I mean, that looks different in each of our lives. And my specific calling is going to be different than your specific calling, and that's OK. I think realizing that obedience, no matter where we're at in our lives, is really more about our relationship with the Lord and surrendering to Him in whatever aspect.
Now, for me, that has led to the mission field in a lot of cases, but a lot of times ... Yeah, I went through a whole season of about three years during the pandemic where God said, "Sit down." And my first book that I wrote was called Go. And so for me to hear this message of "Sit down" ... I'm the “go” girl; I don't know how to sit down. And so just as much as there was a call to obedience in the “go” portion, there was a call to obedience in the “stay” portion. And that was actually more of a struggle for me, but it's taught me so much about God's parenting of me, because I needed to go through a season of healing, where He was doing some things in me emotionally and spiritually and even physically.
And so thankfully, I'm at a place now where the Lord has told me to go again, and so it looks a lot different, but it's always going to be different in each and every person's life. And I think if there's fear of "What if God calls me to the mission field?" He might, but He might not. And I think sometimes we have this tendency to just jump to that, but I don't think He wants us to fly over the mission field to get to the mission. And what I mean by that is, oftentimes there are people in our own lives, in our own circle of influence, that He has called us to minister to, and He's not going to call us out of that when we're not even being faithful with the people He's put in front of us. And so it's like this both calling; it's not here or there; it's not either or. It's everywhere. It's Judea and Samaria and the ends of the earth, but we start right where we're at.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah. And what is so cool about God is He put everybody on the earth to serve a unique purpose. And if we're operating out of obedience, then we're all doing what the Lord wants us to do, but I think what's so hard about listening to this podcast is that, Rachael, we hear a challenging teaching on sometimes obedience is not comfortable. Actually most often, it's not comfortable. And then we hear you talk about one of the practical ways that you and your family have been obedient recently, in a small way, — well small to some people ... might not be small to other people — is by becoming a monthly sponsor of a child through Compassion. And I am a sponsor too.
Amanda Bacon:
Yeah, I am too.
Kaley Olson:
I've been a sponsor since I was 18 years old, so since yesterday; I'm just kidding! I'm much older than 18, but I'm a sponsor. Amanda's a sponsor. Rachael, I know that you're a sponsor as well. And I think the challenge right now is that somebody's listening to this teaching and they're going, "OK, well, I guess I feel convicted to do this, and now I have to." And I would challenge you to stop right there with whatever thing that you feel like you have to go and figure out. First of all, it is not up to you to pause and go and figure out. I think the first thing that you need to do is to pray.
Rachael obviously shared a really, really practical example of partnering with Compassion monthly to be able to partner with an organization that connects you to one child somewhere around the world, and it truly is the most amazing opportunity. Like Rachael said, she gets letters. I've gotten letters from my kids and see ... Well, I don't think he could even write letters whenever I started sponsoring him, because he was a teeny tiny little fella, but now he's older, and he writes me these letters, and he tells me about what he's learning, and I think like, Man, I would've missed out on getting to be a part of this through an organization that is the hands and feet of Jesus.
And I'm so thankful that I was a part of it, but it still is a big commitment for some people. But I will tell you, if you lean into the Lord and really open your hands, even with something as simple as clicking a button and entering some information for yourself, the step of obedience is more like a monthly sustainable thing that you keep up for a while. And I love how it can connect with what Rachael said about taking small steps of obedience and now the way that she understands what the Lord is asking her to do and how He's asking her to go. Compassion could be an opportunity for someone to prayerfully say "Yes" that God uses as a building block for you and your family to grow and stretch in your obedience, to be able to more consistently hear from Him. And it's another opportunity for you to talk with your kids about what sacrifice and obedience looks like. Like, Amanda, you've got eight kids.
Amanda Bacon:
Yeah, I have eight kids.
Kaley Olson:
A lot of kids. Do you use this to talk to your kids about?
Amanda Bacon:
Yeah, we do. We've been sponsoring since 2004. Our first ... we call her our Compassion daughter, but she aged out of the program. We started when she was 7, and she aged out at 21. And now we have a little guy in Kenya and a little guy in the Dominican Republic, and our 19-year-old daughter actually sponsors one all by herself.
Kaley Olson:
I love that.
Amanda Bacon:
And it's just been so cool to write letters, hear from them, see how they grow. One of my favorite things, like you were saying, is seeing them go from a 2- or 3-year-old who can't write to you to learning and growing and writing their own letters eventually, which is one of our favorite things.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah.
Amanda Bacon:
So yeah. So, Rachael, thank you so much. And, Kaley, thank you for sharing that too. And as we close out this conversation, we just want to be sure you guys know how to connect with Rachael by listening to her podcast called Hearing Jesus, where she encourages and equips you to step into the calling God has for your life and living out your faith in the everyday. So check it out.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, it's amazing. I've listened to a lot of the episodes in preparation for this recording today, and I'm here to say, Rachael, the way that you bring confident conviction, I would say, with humility on this podcast is the way that you teach on your podcast. And so I think it is definitely worth a listen, you guys. I want to go back to talk about Compassion really quickly, and just give you guys the link. If you would like to join us in linking arms with Compassion and sponsoring a child, go to compassion.com/proverbs31 to sign up. Or you can go to the link in our show notes and click that directly, and it'll give you a child to sponsor, and it's very easy to go from there.
Also, don't forget to download our free resource we mentioned in the introduction called “A Guide to Stepping Out in Faith.” I think this resource is so practical in how it pairs with Rachael's teaching today. If you're confused about what that step looks like, then this guide will help you. All right, friends, that is all for today at Proverbs 31 Ministries. We help you know the Truth and live the Truth. It changes everything.