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What's on the menu at Lucid Cafe? Stories of transformation; healing journeys; thought-provoking conversations about consciousness, shamanism, psychology, ethics. Hosted by Wendy Halley of Lucid Path Wellness & Healing Arts.
You're listening to Lucid Cafe. I'm your host, Mindy Halling. Welcome to the final episode of season 6. Let me start by saying that it's not the episode I promoted at the end of the last episode. If you listen to that one, which explored Druidism or Druidry, whatever you like to call it.
Wendy:I had mentioned that my friend and astrologer slash holistic sex educator slash magic maker, Linda River Valente, was going to give us an astrological glimpse into the coming year. Well, when I went to start editing our conversation, I heard myself say on the recording, let me just adjust and then nothing. And that's when I noticed that only 8 seconds had been recorded, and that those 8 seconds did not include my conversation with Linda. That's never happened in my 6 years of podcasting. Seriously.
Wendy:But fortunately, I had another equally cool conversation that I was saving for the next season to replace it. The details of which we'll get into in a second. But in case you were looking forward to my conversation with Linda, she, being the good sport that she is, has kindly offered to rerecord our conversation in a couple of weeks. So barring any fuck ups on my part, Linda's astrological window into the, let's say, interesting time we're entering will open season 7 in the fall. What can I say?
Wendy:I'm a knucklehead. Alright. Real quick update. The become your own shaman online introductory course is so close to launching, like weeks away. If I don't do something terrible to fuck that up too.
Wendy:Please sign up for my newsletter if you'd like to find out when you can learn how to dream while you're awake and connect with the unseen worlds. I am so excited for you to open these magical doors. Okay. For today's episode, I had the chance to speak with the very fun and engaging Samantha Bennett about how to tap into and explore the things that bring you joy in a way that's reasonable and not at all intimidating. I thought about calling this episode how to get your head out of your ass and have some fun, but then thought better of it because I'm a saint.
Wendy:Saint Knucklehead. My father must be very proud. In this episode, I speak with Sam about her new book, The 15 Minute Method, the Surprisingly Simple Art of Getting It Done, which throws a lifeline to the overworked professional, the creative with too many unfinished projects, and the parent who rarely has a free moment. Sam's new book isn't just about productivity hacks or working more efficiently. Instead, it asks us to adjust our outlook and realize an important truth.
Wendy:We don't achieve more simply by doing more. We achieve more by doing more of the things that matter. All right. So Sam is a writer, speaker, actor, teacher and creativity productivity specialist and the author of the best selling Get It Done from Procrastination to Creative Genius in 15 minutes a day, which Seth Godin described as an instant classic, essential reading for anyone who wants to make a ruckus. This bestseller was followed up by Start Right Where You Are, How Little Changes Can Make a Big Difference for Overwhelmed procrastinators, frustrated overachievers and recovering perfectionists.
Wendy:She's the founder of The Real Sambennett dot com, a company committed to helping overwhelmed creatives and frustrated overachievers get unstuck. So you can prioritize, focus, and move forward on the goals that matter to you. She's also a wildly popular course instructor on LinkedIn Learning with over a half a 1000000 participants and an average of 4.8 stars in a range of courses, including time management for busy people, how to stop wasting time in meetings, embracing times of uncertainty, and how to write emails people will actually read. Please enjoy my conversation with the real Sam Bennett. Sam, thank you so much for joining me.
Sam:100% my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Hi, everybody.
Wendy:Hi out there in podcast land. So you have a an interesting relationship with time, it seems.
Sam:Okay.
Wendy:Is that no. Does that not I mean, because that seems to be your your thing. Right? Is how we, navigate our relationship with time? It's a lot
Sam:of my thing for sure. And I think it's I sort of feel like, oh, poor time and poor money. Like, they just get blamed for everything. You know? Well, I would.
Sam:I just don't have enough time. Well, I would. I just can't afford it. I mean, I would. There's just no time.
Sam:I mean, there's just no time. I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I'm like, you know, that's you're putting a lot on something that is and as much as we know that there is such a thing as time, which could be debatable, but let's say there is. It's debatable.
Sam:Yeah. But let's but let's say we're living in a world in which there are clocks and time. Sure. How could you not have enough time? Well, it's not 24 hours.
Sam:Like, we're we're all dealing with the same hand. So so my, maybe the relationship is less with time and more with the truth. Like, let's be honest with ourselves about no. I'm choosing not to spend time on that right now. I feel embarrassed about the desire to spend time on that right now.
Sam:Gotcha. I have an important feeling that what I do for everybody else is more important than what I do for myself. So that's how I'm making my decisions right now.
Wendy:So it's not time's fault.
Sam:It's not time's fault.
Wendy:It's not money's fault.
Sam:It's not money's fault. Time and money are like your little friends. They're your little furry friends following you around going, hey. Hi. Hi.
Sam:Can I help? Hi. Hi. What can I do? I'm here.
Sam:Hi.
Wendy:Well, time is here to keep us, organized, I guess. Right? It's,
Sam:I think it can help us notice our lives. Mhmm.
Wendy:That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. So you have written a book of The 15 Minute Method, The Surprisingly Simple Art of Getting It Done. And you've written lots of books in a similar vein.
Wendy:So
Sam:that's what I
Wendy:was just I was gonna say is that this book is not about time management, really. How would you describe your message?
Sam:Yeah. The thing about productivity, true productivity, is that it's not about getting more done. It's about getting more of what matters done. And I think the key to feeling like one has had a successful life is not about getting more done, but rather getting more of what matters done. So, yeah, it's not as much as it's just at number 1 in this category in time management.
Sam:I mean, it's not actually a number it's not really a time management book. It's a joy management book. It's a life management book. It's a give yourself permission to do the shit that really matters to you book. Mhmm.
Sam:And it is also a big hug and an acknowledgment that, yeah, you are busy and overscheduled, and you've got too many things going on, and your kids need you, and your parents need you, and you've got this, and you've got that, and it's not easy. All this productivity sounds like, well, just buy my system. Just get this new planner. Just do like, there's tactic and strategies, and some of those will work and some of those don't, but there's also values. And if you align more closely with your values and your zone of creative genius and the thing you know you're really on this planet to do, the tactic and strategies can kind of figure themselves out.
Wendy:Do you have any theories as to why we've gotten into this place where we've got disconnected from what's important to us?
Sam:Well, they sat us down when we're about 3a half and said, sit here, do this, learn this. This is the right way. That way is the wrong way. Be productive. Be interesting, not too interesting.
Sam:Be demanding, not too demanding. Stand up for yourself, but don't be arrogant. Be interesting, but don't be weird. I mean, nonstop our entire lives. We've been getting these messages about, like, fit in, but don't don't fit in.
Sam:You know? Be special, but not too special. So we wanna be approved of. You know? We're tribal animals.
Sam:We like to live in a group. That's how we know we can survive as if we're in a group. We know we cannot survive alone. Right? Whenever people are like, I'm a people pleaser.
Sam:I'm like, of course you are. By design. Yes. That's that's not a character defect. Sacrificing everything that's important to you on behalf of others, that's a character defect.
Sam:Like, that could use some looking at. But the fact that you generally have desire to say yes and be nice is great. Alright.
Wendy:Let's highlight that, folks, right
Sam:there. It's
Wendy:not a character defect. Alright. Yeah. No. That's that's a a good reminder.
Wendy:So, yeah, one of the things that I noted when I was reading your book because I guess my first impression was, like, alright, it's for people who are struggling with procrastination. Like, they're having a tough time getting things done. And I think there is a piece of that in your book, but there's also it's for the people like you were just describing who are crazy driven or just have very busy lives. And that's the reason why they're not getting the stuff that's important to them done. And that's an interesting thing because we don't usually focus on that, do we?
Sam:Well, that's exactly where the the genesis of the book is. I notice that all the people I know, all the people on my list, all the people I interact with, Kevin, we get very busy doing everything for everybody else all day long, And the things that we know would really make a difference to us, to our heart, to our body, to our spirit, to our family, to our finances, those things don't even make it onto the list. It's not even like we don't get them. Like, it's not even on the list. Right.
Sam:So I would like to create a worldwide revolution. I'd like to start now. I'd like you all to take the pledge and do it with me. I would like to see everyone. Let's start with a million.
Sam:Let's say a million people. Let's say a million people spending 15 minutes a day, every single day on something that matters to them. I don't care if it matters to anybody else. I don't care if anybody else even knows about it. 15 minutes a day of something that matters to you.
Sam:So not make the dentist appointment, check the email list. No. Matters to you. And maybe that's singing or dancing or playing guitar or sitting in the garden or teaching your lizards to do back flips. I don't know what it is for you.
Sam:But spend 15 minutes a day doing that, and then notice how the rest of the day rolls out.
Wendy:I think it would take a little bit longer than 15 minutes to teach your lizard to do back flips. But
Sam:Not if you do it every single day.
Wendy:But if you start, yeah, every day. Like, you wouldn't get it done in 1 15 minute session is what I'm saying.
Sam:Yeah. No. It's not about getting it done. It's about doing.
Wendy:Right. So then do you ever encounter the feedback where folks are saying, I don't even know what's important to me. I don't even know what matters.
Sam:Fantastic. What a great opportunity you have to spend 15 minutes a day making lists of all the weird things you might be interested in trying and then picking one and trying it, or spending 15 minutes a day staring at a blank piece of paper. Because 15 minutes of enforced boredom never hurt a person. When was the last time you spent 15 minutes staring at a blank piece of paper and did not reach for your phone?
Wendy:Right. But I'm thinking, would they feel like a failure because the paper's still blank by the end of the 15 minutes?
Sam:No. Because they've fulfilled the assignment of spend 15 minutes a day on something that matters to you.
Wendy:Oh, okay. I gotcha. Alright. So it's not necessarily the goal of getting something down in the paper. It's more of just sitting and being with yourself.
Sam:Yeah. Acknowledging that at one point you had desires, and now you're not sure what they are. I have an exercise that I repeat a number of times in the book, which is a 90 second doodle. This is great from when you're emotionally stuck like this, or even you maybe even do know what you wanna do, but you think there's no way. There's no way.
Sam:I can't do it. I'm too old. Other people disapprove. It's too expensive. Whatever it is.
Sam:Whatever your reasons are for not doing it. I wanna be a Hollywood movie star. I'm 57. Nobody knows who I am. Like, Sam, that can't happen in 15 minutes a day.
Sam:But can it? Right? So first, let's just start acknowledging that you have desires. And then in fact, the desire is sort of the gas in your tank. I mean, you have to admit the things that you really, really want to do, you pretty much do.
Sam:And the things you really, really don't want to do, you pretty much don't do except under extreme duress. Right? So that's like everybody. That's not a like, that's not a character defect. That's all of us.
Sam:And starting to take these baby steps. And on the one hand, it sounds too simple. I like to think of it as subversively simple. But the fact of the matter is it is amazing how much you can get done in 15 minutes. It is amazing how much you can get done in 15 minutes every day for a week or a month or 6 months or 6 years or 60 years.
Sam:It is amazing the exponential effect of spending 15 minutes on something that matters to you has on the rest of your life. And I can hear that thought of like, well, but, Sam, that'd be selfish. That's selfish of me to take that time for my I can't take that time for myself. Mhmm. Me.
Sam:My kids need me. My family need no. They don't. Not for 15 minutes. They don't.
Sam:Please please still be silly. And here's what's really selfish. What's genuinely selfish is you walking around stressed out and exhausted and with no sense of humor. And the rest of us have to deal with you like that. That is selfish behavior.
Sam:That is putting an onus on us. Right? That's true. Hand, you take 15 minutes to write some crappy poetry, do your paint by numbers, get those lizard flipping, clean out the garage, whatever it is. And all of a sudden, you get that delightful there's gotta be a better word than smugness, but that's kind of what I mean.
Sam:That, like, the same look you have when you've got to the gym first thing in the morning or you had really great sex the night before. You're like, hi. That's right. How's it going? I'm awesome.
Sam:Right? You have that little light in your eyes. You know? Swagger. You slow down.
Sam:You're a better listener. We love that version of you. We love that version of you.
Wendy:So you're suggesting by taking 15 minutes a day that you can be that version of yourself more frequently? Yeah. I mean, wouldn't that be a dream if it was the norm that you were you were that all the time and then just like your off times were just random, sporadic.
Sam:Yeah. Why let busy, stressed out, and overwhelmed be your constant state?
Wendy:O our culture. Yeah. We're
Sam:Well, and o our agreement with our culture.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. Well, to go against the grain, though, I mean, I think people would get into well, I it's for survival. I have to do this because I have to pay the bills. I have to
Sam:Right.
Wendy:Keep the roof over my head. And
Sam:Right. But, again, we're talking about that's we're talking about a false economy there. Right? I'll just work harder and harder and harder until I'm completely burnt out and overwhelmed. Right?
Sam:That's that's how that story goes. If I just keep pushing, if I keep depriving myself of everything that matters to me, if I keep only putting other people's needs ahead of my own, what's the end of that story?
Wendy:Mhmm. Regret.
Sam:Right. Right. Drastic maneuvers. There's a thing in in corporate called I think it's called off ramping. It's when people just quit their job.
Wendy:Oh, yeah.
Wendy:I've heard of that.
Sam:Grad school. They don't fucking know what they're doing. Can I swear on this? Yes.
Sam:Sorry.
Wendy:You can say whatever the fuck you want. Yes.
Sam:Awesome. You know, they don't know what the fuck they're gonna do. They're like, I'm out of here. Like and they quit. And they deprive that organization of all of their knowledge capital, of all of their hard learned skill sets because they're just burnt.
Sam:Right? So here's the other half of my plan for the revolution. Please. Corporate. So I've never had a job in corporate America.
Sam:I've had every other job. I've been a whitewater river guide. I've been a barista. I've produced radio dramas. I delivered flowers.
Sam:I've, like I've done everything. Never had a job in corporate America. So I don't know if this would work. You all can write me and tell me. I keep reading about how 77% of employees are disengaged.
Sam:77% of
Wendy:I was gonna say that could be low too.
Sam:That could be low. The it depend it depends which study you look at. There's different ones from different times. But the overall, the number I see is around 3 quarters. Can you imagine if 3 quarters of your friends were disengaged or 3 quarters of your money went away?
Sam:Like, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And it strikes me that that is a very expensive problem to have people that you are paying to walk around your building or be on your Zooms or whatever that do not care about what's
Wendy:going on.
Sam:So my big plan is that corporate says, hey, everybody. We have noticed that you are a person with a life outside this building. So from here on in between 4:15 and 4:30 or between 7:45 and 8 AM or whatever you wanna call it, that's your time. That's your time to work on your thing in whatever way, capacity you want. And let's not have it be a work thing.
Sam:Let's not have it be, again, clearing out your inbox or making your dentist appointment. Let's have it be something that matters to you. And maybe it's going for a walk, sitting out in sunshine, doing some needle work. I don't know. Whatever it is.
Sam:Practicing your ukulele. Now first of all, I just think that'd be an awesome gesture. I just think
Wendy:No. It'd be lovely. Yeah. But, you
Sam:know, the the the just saying, we get it that you're a person with things you wanna do. Like, that's cool. But, also, here's what happens, and there's a bunch of studies that back this up too. So we have our 15 minutes a day. Now we're in a meeting.
Sam:And rather than say, hi. I'm Sam from sales. I'm gonna say, hi. I'm Sam from sales, and here's how I spent my 15 minutes today. Hi.
Sam:I'm Sam from sales. I spent my 15 minutes today working on some needlepoint that I started a project I started for my goddaughter, who is now when she was born, and she's now about to graduate from high school. So I'm super excited to get it done. And, you know, now we go around the room and everybody else is saying something. Now not only does this just give a lovely bit of conviviality to the room, but people will make better decisions.
Sam:They will be more creative in their responses. They will be better problem solvers because you have reminded them of the fullness of themselves. They're not just coming at to the with the I am Sam from sales hat on. They're wearing their full, oh, I have godchildren, and I do needlepoint, and I have family. And I they're bringing all that to the table.
Sam:And then that person down at the other table that I have never liked very well tells me that she's been doing cross stitch. And now we can be needlework friends and talk about embroidery floss and other things that and you know what we call that? Engagement. Yeah. And it also it engages engaged with each other.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. And it also makes your colleagues more human.
Sam:Oh, I had that. Right? Right. Especially that person that you're like, oh, I don't get them or I don't like them or I don't I don't think they like me or whatever. I remember even meeting with a bank manager one time, a very snooty bank, Thought they were gonna loan me some money.
Sam:I was sadly mistaken about that part years years years ago. But the guy was asking me, like, what I did, and I was telling him about how I, you know, help people encourage their their own creativity and spend more time on the things that matter to them. Because we've all heard that hospice study, right, of the people who get to the end of their lives, and their number one regret is, I wish I hadn't spent so much time doing what I thought everybody else wanted me to do.
Wendy:I hadn't heard that, but it makes perfect sense.
Sam:Yeah. So this guy and I are talking. He's sort of getting more and more interested about what I do, and he says, well, this is really fast. And he says,
Wendy:you know all of
Sam:a sudden, mister button butt blue suit bank manager says, I make jewelry out of sea glass. What? I said, I'm sorry. You what? Yeah.
Sam:He says, my wife and I live by the beach. We love go walking every day on the beach, and we sometimes see glass. And then I have a soldering iron, and I make jewelry out of it. But I'm like, now I love you forever because you make money.
Wendy:If you're gonna deny me.
Sam:Well, and I'll tell you what. He did deny me alone. In fact, we I don't I think I think he even looked at my application. He was like, we shouldn't even put this through. Like, you're not ready.
Sam:This is not ready for that, for what they had to offer. It was a that part of it was not a good match. But then he was like, I am in charge of speakers for the Montecito Rotary. Would you like to come speak to the Montecito? At the Montecito Country Club, where we have the 4 star chef preparing the lunch, and you can sell books in the back of the room.
Sam:And Amazing. Right. Amazing. But would that connection have happened if I hadn't found out about him and his sea glass?
Wendy:Yeah. It just yeah. That that's a great point. It makes someone more, I guess, fully dimensional rather than 1 dimensional. And based on our first impressions, I mean, our first impressions are, I think, frequently wrong.
Sam:Well, sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes they're just the first. You know? Sometimes there's there's so much more
Wendy:That's true.
Sam:And I use the example in the book of sometimes and this is sort of based on a real person that I know, and she's amazing, but she can be very abrupt. She's very cut to the chase. She always is like, knows all the facts and figures, and I find her a little cut and dry and a little, abrupt. You know, a little like but then you find out that she was an Olympic equestrian. Like, oh.
Sam:Oh, yeah. Okay. So now your discipline, your drive, your what I perceive as maybe nitpicky ness or you're the one who do things by the rules, whatever it is, this all makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah. Because I get it that you are this kind of person.
Sam:You're not being who you are to me. Right? And now I can maybe appreciate what you bring a little bit more. And also, you might have some good ideas about where my niece should go to writing camp. You know?
Wendy:I love those examples. Yeah. And I I mean, not just getting to know other people in a deeper way, but also getting to know yourself in a deeper way. Because once you try something you always thought would be the perfect thing that you always wanted to do, you you will find out if it really is indeed the thing that you thought it was.
Sam:Right. Which is why I'm always I'm a big fan of, like, skip the first step. Like, a lot of times, people have a big idea for something. This happens a lot with the high creatives that I work with. Right?
Sam:They have a million ideas all the time, and they're always very complex. And you're feeling a little called out. But me too. I mean, this is how I have this job is because I get it. This is the person I am too.
Sam:And it's a little like, I gotta I gotta clean out the garage. That's the big that's the big part. I have to do it. And we have this vision of the garage clean, and it's gorgeous. And we think, well, I need 2 free weekends for that.
Sam:Well, first of all, yeah. Really? What 2 free show me those 2 free weekends, would you? Because I don't I'm imagining you don't have them either. And if you did have them, I'm not imagining that you really wanna spend them at a rush.
Sam:Right. So, however, let's take this 15 minute a day approach. Let's see. Let's take your Stanley tumbler or your mug of some tea or some a can of beer or whatever it is you like, and why not go into the garage and contemplate the garage for 15 minutes? Just be there with the garage.
Sam:Notice what you notice about the garage. No punishment. No just hang out there. And maybe towards the end of the 15 minutes or maybe the next day, in your next 15 minutes, you go, wait a minute. Those 7 boxes are my brother's.
Sam:That's not even mine. Right? Then you call him up, Jeffrey, come get your thing. And then maybe the 3rd 15 minute, you, like, look in one of those Rubbermaid things. You're like, oh, that's Christmas stuff.
Sam:Okay. Well, I can write Christmas on the outside of it, and I can put it towards the back because the Christmas stuff I only need once a year. Great. Done. Next day, little bit.
Sam:Next day, little bit. I bet you can get that garage turned around way quicker than you think you do, and without, like, oh, I've gotta call the garage people, and, oh, I've gotta have 2 free weekends, and, oh, I need to know perfectly inside of my mind how this is gonna go. Just start and see what happens.
Wendy:Right. So do you think we're getting caught up in that whole philosophy of business before pleasure? Like you were saying before, you're alluding to like, you keep putting off what's important to you because you gotta get this other shit done.
Sam:I'm getting increasingly convinced that if your business is not pleasure, you're gonna be in big trouble.
Wendy:I'll drink to that.
Sam:Cheers. You know?
Wendy:What would the world be like, right, if everyone was doing at least one thing that they really love?
Sam:Again, even just for 15 minutes a day. And and it's funny and sweet. I I I see people sort of doing this anyway. We tend to sort of take the the jobs that we've had, and I've had plenty of like I said, I've had lots and lots of jobs. And we sort of bend them to be the things that we are and that we like to do.
Sam:I am always extremely touched that in every office I've ever been in, there is a birthday person. Yeah. There is the person who has taken it upon themselves to find out what everybody's birthday is, and they get the cupcakes, and they pass around the Christ's joyous birthday. Here's sign the card. And, oh, they do something special in the break room.
Sam:And and I'm always like, really? Wow. And you say, really? You do all this stuff. Like, oh, I don't mind.
Sam:I like it. I like it. It's fun for me. I don't I don't mind. And they're like and I was like, really?
Sam:Because I don't care about my birthday, and I don't care about your birthday, and I don't really care about anybody's birthday. And I'm not much of a celebrator, and I don't enjoy parties, but I'm fascinated by the fact that you do and you are. And, clearly, allowing this person to take on this unpaid labor of engagement, acknowledgment, celebration. That brings them joy. Right?
Sam:Gives them some joy. It gives that office some joy. And if we wanted to make this person's life even better, maybe we could lean into those things a little bit. You know, maybe they become the daily complimenter because they're so good at acknowledging people, and they could just walk around the office every day and go, here's what I noticed about you that you've been amazing today. Here's what I noticed about you that you're incredible at.
Sam:I don't know. I'm inventing things, but that would work for me because I don't care about birthdays, but I do care about verbal praise.
Wendy:I don't think you're alone in that.
Sam:If you came around and gave me a compliment every day, I would work twice as hard. No question.
Wendy:Alright. That's the secret to Sam.
Sam:That's the secret to Sam. It's true. It's true.
Wendy:Yeah. I really like that example of the birthday person in the office in your book because it's true. I've I've known that person in every office I've worked into.
Sam:Mhmm. And it's easy to sort of go like, well, maybe they should have a career in event planning. Maybe. Maybe. But but maybe that's not what's driving it.
Sam:You know? Maybe, like you said, it's the need for connection. Maybe it's a gift for enthusiasm and celebration. Maybe it's I don't know. But really finding those things that turn you on for just keeping that candle lit inside of yourself for 15 minutes a day, I think is epic.
Sam:Mhmm. If you can spend more of your time or find more ways to to do the thing, to bring your zone of genius into your work, into your life. And when I say zone of genius, what I mean is that thing that you've always been really interested in and kinda good at that everybody else is like, what? You do what? You're driving to where to pay how much to go to an exhibition about what?
Sam:And you're like, no. No. I like it. I like it. I've been doing if somebody woke you up at 3 in the morning and said, hey.
Sam:Hey. Hey. We're gonna go x y z. You wanna come? You'd be like, yeah.
Sam:Yeah. Wear my shoes. Hold on. We're okay. That whatever that is, that is your zone of creative genius.
Sam:And hat tip to Gaye and Katie Hendricks and their work on zones of creative genius and zones for genius, but that's your gift. You didn't ask to be like that. You didn't ask to be good at that. You just are and always have been. You came this way.
Wendy:Well, hopefully, people are not so disconnected from themselves that they've lost touch with that part of themselves. But you have a lot of great exercises to help Yeah. Spark that creativity and and help you to, I guess, get reunited with yourself in a way that you probably haven't been since you were a kid.
Sam:Right. Well and that's the other part of it is sometimes people do know what it is, but it's got a lot of grief piled on top of it because it's been a minute. Right. Yeah. So, yes, you may not be able to pursue gymnastics the way you could when you were 12.
Wendy:That's probably There's that. There's some things that are just not
Sam:There's some things that are just not gonna be physically
Wendy:Yeah.
Sam:Possible for you right now. However, the things you loved about gymnastics, you can absolutely have in your life right now. Mhmm. Even if it's just stretching and practicing your
Wendy:I'm thinking Pilates is, like, gymnastics cheating.
Sam:Maybe Pilates or maybe yeah. Just improvise a little floor routine.
Wendy:Reformer routine.
Sam:You know, improvise the old lady the old lady gymnastics floor routine for 15 minutes. Right? And every every health and wellness person out there will tell you that 15 minutes of daily movement of any kind is gonna do you a world of good.
Wendy:Absolutely. I wanna get back to regret because I think that's trying to avoid regret. I've said this before in the podcast, talking about the greatest gift my mom gave me before she died besides giving me life was the importance of not having regret when you die because you don't know when it's gonna happen. Not to get morose, but it's true. It's just it's a reality.
Wendy:And if you have the luxury of a deathbed, you do not wanna be on that deathbed asking the question, what if?
Sam:I'll do you one better. You also do not wanna be haunting your own memorial service, having people say, well, she was very well behaved. He followed every rule. Mhmm. He met every expectation anybody had for him.
Sam:Mhmm.
Wendy:Paid every bill on time.
Sam:That's right. Amazing. Put it wrong. Amazing. Her tile grout?
Sam:Impeccable. Yeah. You don't want that. You don't want that. No.
Sam:You want them going, that crazy bitch got every bit of juice out of that orange. Right.
Wendy:Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just you don't want all your dreams to be buried with you.
Sam:And I'm I'm I'm so glad you brought this up because, yes, it does have a reputation of being a little grim, but I don't know why. I mean, first of all, Seth is one of the great inevitabilities. It is the only thing we know for sure. It's the only thing we know for sure. And everyone who's been says it's great.
Sam:It's true. Right? Everyone who's been says it's amazing. So I don't feel like we have anything to worry about with them. It's sad for us when our friends go.
Sam:That's that's hard for us, but I don't think it's hard for them. Just my big opinion. But it's really the whole it's the reason that I write books and it's the reason I have the business that I do is because I am a little obsessed with the fact that we're all gonna die and that we have no idea when that day is. I'm always reading those articles like the plane crashes into the person's house while they're sleeping. I'm always like, see?
Wendy:You never know. You just don't know. Yeah.
Sam:You were there innocently having eaten your brand cereal that morning. And the next thing you know, there's a plane crashing in your house. That's all over.
Wendy:Physically, you no longer exist. Yeah.
Sam:Physically, you no longer exist. So we do not have an unlimited amount of time to get our work out there. We do not know how much time that is. So quit waiting for some perfect time. Quit waiting for some perfect moment when you have the confidence and the time and the money in the bank.
Sam:It's not that day is not coming, especially the confidence part. This makes me crazy. I'm like, why would do that, but I don't have any confidence. I'm like, of course, you don't. Confidence is a result.
Sam:Oh, good point. It is not a preexisting condition. You have to earn confident you can jump off the high dive before you jump off the high dive. You're terrified you jump off the high dive, then you have confidence that you can jump off the high dive because you did it. But until you do it, the confidence is not available to you.
Sam:Right. Right. So quit waiting for some perfect time and just start doing even the teeniest, tiniest, lamest, almost half assed version possible. That's the other thing I think about 15 minutes is that hopscotch is right over the perfectionism.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. We should probably talk about that a little bit. How do you avoid doing the perfect 15 minutes?
Sam:Again, this is where I just wanna walk around giving everybody a big hug and go, honey, put down the whip. You know? Like, of all the places and times in your life to be worried about perfects, This 15 minutes that you're taking for yourself seems like not not the highest and best use of your time. And again, it's 15 minutes. How perfect is it gonna be?
Sam:And you're gonna do it again tomorrow. And is there something more interesting than perfect that you could be aiming for? And why perfect? And why perfect? What value does perfect have to you?
Sam:I think mostly for most people, it means uncriticizable. Ah. Impervious to attack.
Wendy:So would you suggest then that perfectionism is really driven by concern for what other people think or concern for what you think of yourself?
Sam:Both. Both. I think the concern about what other people think is
Wendy:most common and again Unless you're a sociopath. Yeah.
Sam:Right. And totally understandable. Like, yes,
Wendy:you
Sam:are supposed to care about what other people think. That's Mhmm. That's right. It really hurts my heart when I hear people say things like, well, if it can't be perfect, why would I even try? Yeah.
Sam:And I think, is that what you're teaching your children? Ouch. Is that what you want your children to believe? I feel the same way when I have mothers who are like, well, I have to do everything for the kids first, and then I you know, and there's no time for me to do my writing, to do my I'm like, again, is that what you wanna teach your children?
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. Your role model.
Sam:Wives and mothers are for, that that's what fathers and men are for, to sacrifice and put everything else for it. I don't think that's the message you wanna teach them. I think the message you wanna teach them is be resilient. Figure it out for 15 minutes. I'm busy doing something that matters to me because I am the mom that I get to say.
Wendy:Yeah. Has has that gotten lost a bit?
Sam:Oh, for sure. I'm the eldest of 13 grandchildren. My mother was my grandmother's eldest daughter, eldest of 5. So I'm the eldest daughter of the eldest daughter. So there's a lot of eldest daughter things going on.
Sam:Gotcha.
Wendy:But
Sam:my grandmother used to put us all to bed by doing this. For those of you who can't see me, I'm raising one eyebrow, and she would say, bed. Done. And that was it. We were up.
Sam:We were up.
Wendy:There was a question.
Wendy:Yes.
Sam:We put on our footy pajamas. We Off to bed with you. Yeah. Now we may have snuck around and played slipper tag for a while after that. She didn't know about that part.
Sam:But there was none of this. Now I tried most of my adult life to have children and did not, which makes me a parenting expert. So but I do think that this endless negotiation of of bedtime, not only for our children, but for us. Right? I I hear it all the time about, like, oh, yeah.
Sam:I try to go to bed at 10, but then I start doomscrolling, and it's 12:30 before I actually try to have the light.
Wendy:Yeah. Those are all great points. What are your thoughts on discipline? Like, healthy discipline versus unhealthy discipline.
Sam:I think discipline as it applies to oneself is a little bit of a lie. Because again, it's the kind of thing I hear a lot from people. Well, I just need more discipline. I just need more willpower. I know what I need to do.
Sam:I just need to make myself do it. And I always wanna call bullshit. Like, I think it is much more likely that you have had some ideas about how to proceed Those ideas bore the ass off you, and now you don't know what to do. Because you think your first instinct about, like, maybe I could just do this crazy weird thing. You have crossed off the list, and now you think it's a willpower issue or a discipline issue when it probably isn't.
Wendy:It makes me wonder too. Like, I'm thinking about when I studied martial arts or my shamanic practice, and the discipline I mean, a lot of discipline was involved, or maybe it was more commitment in that or consistency is a better word. Like, I had to be consistent with it, the practice in order to get better. But if you are doing something perhaps that does not bring you joy, is not exciting, then it would feel like torture. It would feel like discipline, like, in the in the negative sense of the word.
Sam:Right. And I I really question this this cultural belief of, like, it only mat it only counts if it's hard.
Wendy:Yeah. What's that about, do you think? Where did that come from?
Sam:I don't know. I mean, again, I think it's I mean, I think we can just safely say patriarchy. But but then Yeah.
Wendy:I yeah. No. That's where my head was going too.
Sam:Yeah. Don't detract your natural and native abilities. If this isn't causing you to weep with exhaustion, it's not really worthwhile. That's what this country was founded on. Right?
Sam:Gosh. Darn it, man.
Wendy:Fierce independence and survival and
Sam:That's right. Yep. Severe self sufficiency disorder. Wrong task for help. Don't be these things.
Sam:Yeah. And we all know that the when I was when I was a camp counselor, we used to tend to say to the kids, you don't have to. You get to. You don't have to clean up after lunch, you get to. And I think all of us who like to do I think people in general like to do hard things when they're interesting and joyful to us.
Sam:Yeah.
Wendy:That's a good differentiation to make.
Sam:So, yeah, I think the question is, can you show up for yourself? Can you show up for your desire? I think the discipline is in not believing everything you think. The discipline is in understanding that that voice in your head that says, who do you think you are? No one cares.
Sam:Don't get too big for your britches. You don't have time for this. You can't afford this. Work harder. Head down.
Sam:Quit fucking around. The discipline isn't going, thank you, voice. Peace out. Right. I'll be back to you another 15 minutes.
Sam:But for right now, I'm gonna spend 15 minutes on something that matters to me.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. And the discipline of that would be to continually do that every time you go against the grain of yourself. Right?
Wendy:That's right.
Sam:That's right. Yeah. And really asking I think the larger question about discipline is really interesting. I I certainly found this with my niece and nephew. I would ask them to do something or encourage them to do something or order them to do something, and they would push back for whatever reason.
Sam:And I felt that impulse to parent the way I was parented of, like, you will do this because I am telling you to. Right. And the desire to go, hold the phone. Is this actually important? Do I care that they sit at the dining room table to eat dinner?
Sam:Does that actually matter, or is it okay if they sit on the floor over there on a cushion? Who cares? Right? Do I care if they don't eat their peas? It's 1 serving of peas in a lifetime of green vegetable.
Sam:I I think it'll be a like, am I really you know, am I using if I have a certain amount of disciplinary authority as anti Sam, what am I using it on?
Wendy:Well, I think what you're pointing out is how we're wired habitually kind of. I'm fond of saying that I think humans are 95 to 99% unconscious when we're awake, that we're just creatures of habit. And so, I mean, these things are so deeply ingrained, and that's what's cool about your book is that you're helping to bring attention to the things that we're not paying attention to in a in a fun way, in a creative way, in a non intimidating way.
Sam:Thank you. Yeah. That's that's definitely the idea. And to just, I don't know. Hat tip to my brothers and sisters out there.
Sam:I've talked about in the book. I've had long haul COVID for the last two and a half years. Oh. So, yeah, it's terrible. It's terrible.
Sam:I don't know. Anyway, I cannot be good or brave
Wendy:about this. Sorry. Yeah. That sucks. Yeah.
Sam:And so for those of you also out there suffering with chronic and especially invisible illnesses, it's it's it's a bear. And a lot of this book was written in 15 minute increments. A lot of this book was edited in 15 minutes. It was all I had. Yeah.
Sam:When you got 2 teaspoons of energy, the discipline that runs it's becomes completely immaterial. It's like, I can be as disciplined as I want, but if I can't get out of bed, I can't get out of bed. And not only can't get out of bed, but, like, rolling over in bed seems really ambitious.
Wendy:Oh, that's horrible. It's really bad. It just sucks, man.
Sam:I can't even read.
Wendy:Really? Yeah.
Sam:Oh. I've never not been able to read. My mother says I overcame carsickness by sheer force of will because all I wanted to do when I was a kid was read.
Wendy:And that will is not there for you right now. I mean, you just don't have the you just don't have it.
Sam:It's just not there. Wow.
Wendy:Okay. Well, I hope that that this resolves in some way.
Sam:Agreed. Thank you. Me too. But, you know, the fact of the matter is everybody's carrying around something. Everybody's carrying invisible bowling balls.
Sam:Right? Everybody's struggling. Everybody has a a weight that is especially hard for them. Yeah. And this is the other thing I wanna say because people say, well, sure.
Sam:Sam can build a 6 figure business. Sure. Wendy can have a podcast and be a shaman. No. Sure.
Sam:So and so, you know, they're good looking. They're rich. They've got this. They've got that. It must be easier for them.
Sam:No. Damn straight. I guarantee you. It is 100% not easier. There's nothing about this that is easier.
Sam:We just have this commitment to this idea. We just have this commitment to this work. We just have this insatiable desire to get this message out into the world in this way. And that's I had a coach who used to say, and he'd say, like, why aren't I getting the results I want? He'd say, because you don't want it bad enough.
Wendy:Well, I mean Yeah? Not There's something to that. Yeah.
Sam:Not wrong. Certainly an interesting question. Certainly a good point of inquiry.
Wendy:Yeah. And it would whittle down a lot of things maybe that you're spending time on that you maybe it's just you don't have passion. I love the idea of following what excites you.
Sam:Yeah. Follow the sparkly breadcrumbs and do a different thing every day for a year. I don't care, you know, whatever. Whatever. Yeah.
Sam:Whatever. Follow the sparkly breadcrumbs and see where it leads you. Don't be so attached to outcome. Again, that's 15 minutes. What's gonna happen?
Sam:You know? Think just start noticing what you like and what you want, and where's the easy path, and where's the too easy, and where's the what? People get paid for that? What? But everybody can do that.
Sam:No. They can't. Just you.
Wendy:Okay. Well, the shrink in me wants to address the folks who might be listening who say that I feel like I'm failing at the 15 minutes. If you leave the 15 minutes and you're not feeling good, it might be a good idea to talk to someone to see what's going on behind the scenes that you're not catching.
Sam:It is certainly so I've lived with depression and anxiety my my whole life. And it's weird because when I was a kid, there was no such thing as childhood depression. So No.
Wendy:There wasn't. Right? There wasn't a lot of things.
Sam:There wasn't a lot of things. We we weren't neuroatypical. We were just weird.
Wendy:Yeah. I hear that. I hear that. Are are you a are you a a gen xer?
Sam:I am a gen xer.
Wendy:Yes. Yep. So the latchkey experience in the 100%. I mastered that. I
Sam:That's 9. I was coming home to school by myself, making my sister a snack. Yeah. That's that was the one thing. Yep.
Sam:So, yeah, this is where we get a little bit of self sufficiency disorder too. Right? Nope. Yeah. Exactly.
Sam:We it's not even that we don't wanna accept help. We just don't even it doesn't even cross our minds that help is available. It just it's not part of our experience. But, yes, I will say for sure that one of the signs I know when my depression is really kicking, it's always sort of there as kind of wallpaper. But when it when it's really kicking into gear, it's that exact thing you just said.
Sam:Like, I feel like a failure no matter what I do. If even if I'm getting that verbal praise that I love so much and everybody's going, yeah. You're amazing. That's awesome. I can't feel it.
Wendy:It doesn't hit. Yeah.
Sam:Doesn't hit. Can't feel it. So anhedonia. Right? The inability to take pleasure in anything.
Sam:Hedonism, too much pleasure. Anhedonia, inability to take pleasure. On the one hand, I think it's kind of a superpower because I don't look for things to feel good before I do them. Okay. You know?
Sam:And, yeah, I I really the I think sometimes people feel overwhelmed in their lives because they're actually underwhelmed. You've got a whole list of things to do that you don't give a crap about, so no wonder you feel tired before you even start. There's nothing there's nothing feeding you on there. But I also think, could you experiment with feeling amazing about yourself for 15 minutes? Could you dedicate the 15 minutes to that?
Sam:A 15 minutes of just writing out a list of every compliment everyone's ever given you or every compliment you wish you had gotten.
Wendy:I love that.
Sam:Yeah. You know? Could you draw flattering self portraits? Could you be your own hype man? Could you, you know, like orgasm a day?
Sam:Like, whatever it takes.
Wendy:I saw that in there. I was like, alright. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam:Sure. Why not? What does it take so that you have at least a moment or a flash every day of going, alright. That's not bad. That's pretty good.
Sam:Pretty good. Me? Yeah. I have a thing called the daily practicum. It's a subscription thing.
Sam:People can buy it. They and they every weekday at 12 noon EST, 9 Pacific, 5 British summertime. We get on the Zoom, wave, timer, 15 minutes, timers goes off, and these faces, these literally, like, with a poster orgasmic glow, I don't think that's what they were doing, but,
Wendy:Maybe.
Sam:Shines up at me, and they're like, I can't believe it. I did it. I had a pile like this on my desk, and now it's like this. I called that person that I've been putting off calling for 6 weeks. I've been putting off calling that person.
Sam:I sat in the garden with the sun on my face. I texted my friend that I know is suffering. I did the thing that mattered to me, and now I feel amazing. Beautiful. Right?
Sam:And some people show up every day. Some people show up occasionally. Some people never show up, but the fact that they paid for it and it's on their calendar makes them do it anyway. Guys, I'm not your mom. This is not school.
Sam:You are not in the army. Like, 15 minutes a day let's say you do it 3 times last week. Guess what? That's 45 minutes more than you did the week before.
Wendy:So you're saying you offer a subscription for folks to do the 15 minutes with you?
Sam:Yeah.
Wendy:Okay. So that's for people who are really needing that structure.
Sam:They call it body doubling or parallel play. And for the ADD, ADHD, ODD, neurospices among us, that there's something about that being in a room with other people also working. I mean, we're tribal again, we're tribal animals. Right. Right.
Sam:You know, everybody else is there and they got their head down. Like, you'll you'll do that too. There's There's a certain amount of positive peer pressure of of where I've got my friends. I'm there every week. They if I'm not there, they're gonna work.
Sam:There's a certain amount of mommy sees me. You know? Mhmm. And sometimes it's sometimes it's, like, you said 15 minutes of staring at a blank piece of paper. Sometimes you sit down for 15 minutes and get up 4 hours later.
Sam:I mean, I don't know how this is gonna roll out for you. But I know that what you're doing right now is not entirely working. So what is a simple, easy, efficient strategy that even the busiest of people can find 15 minutes just for you?
Wendy:I was just thinking how sad it is that we even need to have this conversation. I mean, it's great that we're having it, but it's sad that we need to have it.
Sam:It is. It is. But, again, I'm hoping we can spark a revolution.
Wendy:Yeah. I'll I'll get behind that. Yeah. Not much of an activist, but I will definitely promote that.
Sam:Thank you. I I am also not much of an we're gonna need to get some activists in here. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. Some
Sam:people like you know? I don't know.
Wendy:They get all fired up and get their placards out and
Sam:We get everybody on board. The joiners the joiners of the world. We love that. Yeah. We can make it a cult.
Sam:Cults
Wendy:are popular. Cults are fascinating and
Sam:Fascinating.
Wendy:Yeah. And
Sam:this could be Everything about them except the taking away of the free will. But other than that, super so interesting the concept that people may what what are the qualities of it called? So, like, you need a new name.
Wendy:Yep. You lose your identity.
Sam:You have to wear a certain
Wendy:certain outfit. There's the prom the promise of something that you're working towards.
Sam:Mhmm.
Wendy:You need a charismatic leader.
Sam:Right. There's the us against them. Right? We've got the inside line on the truth. They don't have what we know.
Wendy:Yep.
Sam:Which is why people so often get hoodwinked into them because they're smart. They like to know. They like to be on the inside line. And if
Wendy:That's a great point too. Yeah. Yeah. So you feel like you're in a special elite group. So the 15 minute cult.
Wendy:Yeah. Okay. Everyone's invited.
Sam:Everyone's invited, and you can leave your
Wendy:wear whatever you want, though.
Sam:Wear whatever you want. You can keep your name or change it. I don't care. Don't spend 15 minutes on something that matters to you. That's all.
Sam:Dust off those hobbies, people. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:So you've written these books, and then you have this subscription. Are there other ways in which people can work with you
Sam:Do you do workshops? Or classes. I've got a bunch of courses on LinkedIn. I have over a 1000000 students on LinkedIn, which is Holy shit. I know.
Sam:I am surprised as well.
Wendy:Yes. Very fancy.
Sam:Very fancy, especially for me who's, again, never darkened the doors of corporate America. And yet
Wendy:You're probably talking with a lot of corporate America.
Sam:I am. And and but I think I get an edge because I think most business trainings are unspeakably dull.
Wendy:I'm with you.
Sam:So I think
Wendy:my psychotherapy practice is specializes in workplace wellness.
Sam:Uh-huh. So there you go. So I think the fact that I am slightly not unspeakably dull, like, congratulations. I went. Yeah.
Sam:So LinkedIn. I'm on all the socials. It's the real Sam Bennett. I do a live every week that broadcast all the platforms. So I'm the real Sam Bennett on all the socials.
Sam:My website's the real sambennett.com. The big thing to do would be to get on my email list because really that's how all the information goes out. I I try to remember to post on social media and do stuff, but I I just I don't. It's it's the emails.
Wendy:And then you all can write me back and tell me what your 15 minutes
Sam:is, and, you know, we'll be pen pals and best friends. It'll be great. It's adorable. Okay.
Wendy:Let me just say, I really appreciate you rallying and getting through this conversation with me. It was really fun.
Sam:My pleasure. And I will tell you, so my background's in theater. I spent most of my life working as an actor. And one of the advantages to a lifetime in the performing arts is I can rally anytime. If it's, if it's Showtime, it's Showtime and weasels could be gnawing off my legs and no one could ever know.
Sam:And after we're done, me and the weasels are going to go to bed and that's not gonna be it.
Wendy:Fair enough.
Sam:I am delighted to spend my 2 tablespoons of energy with you today and with your listeners. Thanks, everybody.
Wendy:I hope you feel crazy inspired now to experiment, explore, and engage with yourself in a way that's really fun and feels satisfying. If you'd like to learn more about Sam, check out her books and classes, maybe sign up for her weekly 15 minute gathering. Please visit the realsambennett.com. I've included a link in the show notes. I am so thankful to you for listening to the podcast and for all of the wonderful feedback you've been giving me about how the guests I've had the great fortune to talk with have helped you in some way or made you think or inspired you.
Wendy:It's really cool to hear and helps me keep going. I'm gonna take a couple months off from podcasting and get some other shit done. Let me just say that season 7 is gearing up to be another really, really good one. And my pal Linda will lead the charge. Again, if I don't fuck it up.
Wendy:So enjoy the rest of your summer and I'll look forward to reconnecting with you soon. Until next time.