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"Ideas are currency, you know. And you're never broke if you got ideas... Everything we are looking at around us came from an idea. So for me, they are, it is a currency within itself."— Koder
Welcome to Coworking Values the podcast of the European Coworking Assembly.
Each week we deep dive into one of the values of accessibility, community, openness, collaboration and sustainability. Listen in to learn how these values can make or break Coworking culture.
Speaker 4: Before we get into today's
episode, I want you to navigate,
or we can do this by listening, of
course, navigate to the show notes.
There is a link to the LinkedIn coworking
group, and in there there's a discussion
going on about what to do in your
coworking space on European coworking day.
And part of what we talk about
in this episode with Coda is the
value or the secret value of.
A coworking space, whatever you wanna
call yourself to the local area and
how so many people don't know about
the value or even what a coworking, he
talks about walking through past Blue
Garage and not knowing what it is.
And European Coworking Day is a great
chance for people in Europe to articulate
if you like, the value of their coworking
space to their local neighbourhood.
And basically all you gotta do is put on
an event and invite people, and it's as.
Easy or difficult was that
in that video that's at the top of
the LinkedIn group, we talk about four
things you can do in your coworking
space, and there are four things we
spoke about at Unreasonable Connection
here in London at Blue Garage, and
they are not the only examples.
So.
If the only thing you do is go and
put your pin in the map for European
Coworking Day, and there's every episode,
there's a link to European Coworking
Day in our show notes that will get
the, that will get the ball rolling.
Imagine you can go to the map and
instead of like two pins there,
there's like a thousand pins.
That is the independent, affordable
workspace local neighbourhood.
Coworking movement announcing itself
and making itself more visible,
and that's great for everybody.
Let's get into the show.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Hello folks.
We are back for another,
I just gotta get into it.
It's, it's the Coworking Values
podcast and we got coder on Coder
like, what are you known for and
what would you like to be known for?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
Boy, my name's KAKA coder.
Um, I'm known for my ability to
my memories and my experiences on
record, make music essentially.
And I'm also known for
being a connector of people.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
That's, I'm jealous now.
Like I can, I'm a connector of
people, but I can't, I can't,
I can't do the music bit.
So we met at Blue Garage and you
are, we're gonna get to what you're
doing with Michael and Louis.
Is it Louis or Louis?
Like Louis.
Louis.
Um.
We are gonna put a link to this
in the show notes, folks, but can
you, can you just tell us about
Undeniable Studios and what that means?
'cause it's so much more than a
place to go in studio, isn't it?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah, for real.
So undeniable started in 2017,
started as a record label.
So originally it was
undeniable records and then.
That transformed into, okay, where
are we gonna record the music?
I always had music studios.
was always something I
needed as a musician.
I was always like, independent,
I need my own place that I can
make and create my own product.
So then I had undeniable
records, undeniable studios.
Then it was like, okay, so what's
happening on the media side?
Who's filming, who's editing.
I was doing a lot of that with my team.
So then we started Undeniable
films, created a whole
ecosystem around undeniable.
So undeniable studio sits under a
larger conglomerate called Undeniable.
Um, but it's the, it's the
arm that I would say is.
The most active at the moment and where
my attention mostly is, the others act
more as vehicles for my own creativity.
Whereas undeniable studios is
more of like a front, a front
facing, um, business I'd say.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: You
know, there's what, what, where
did you, where did you start?
You used the word conglomerate
there, like, you know, where,
where, what were you first doing?
Like, were you, were you.
Busing in Tottenham Court Road tube or
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: No, I
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: in church.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: no, I
was doing youth clubs in the ends.
I was in the ends going to
different youth clubs around ham.
Um, just getting my name around, just
being a mc, always ready to just like
drop bars at the drop of a hat and,
um, started to kind of build a local
buzz Girls playing my songs at the back
of the bus on the old Nokia and the
old Sony Erickson Walkmans, you know,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I'm gonna cry.
Yeah.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
are playing your song and
they don't even know it's you.
You know, like it was before
was a thing.
But that was before like social
media in it, so it was before
someone could put a face to the name.
So you had like social media
platforms, like Bebo Face, Facebook
was new, but you had MySpace.
So some people knew your face, but
essentially felt more important
than the face at the time, isn't it?
So sometimes I'll be travelling
around Luum, people would be playing
my songs on bus, singing the words,
and they didn't even know it was me.
So I came up through that scene.
being like hyper independent, recording
myself, mixing myself through, through
my Uncle Dennis's teaching, and
putting out my own music on MSN and
kind of using MSN Messenger as like
a early music distribution platform.
Obviously I know all these big fancy
words back then, but for me, back
then it was just about sending my
music out to everybody on my contact
list and I had loads of people
on my contact list at the time.
And then, yeah, then I guess that mindset.
Showed me early on the power of
independence and the power of ownership.
So that, that's something
I carried with me.
So the reason I can say words
like conglomerate and stuff like
that's not 'cause I've done like
a business course or anything like
that, is because I was taking risks.
I was out there like betting on myself
and I was coming across people that
was like, actually what you are doing.
should all sit under one
thing called a conglomerate.
And I'm like, oh, what's a conglomerate?
And they're like, oh, it's a, it's a
larger company that owns subsidiaries.
And I'm like, what's a subsidiary?
So I was learning all this stuff in real
time, but before I was learning this
stuff, I had things in place, you know,
so, and that was just from being like a
student, a life, and just bumping my head.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: And
when you're on the bus, like, were
you, I just like making music,
like I just like drawing in my.
Book or were you like, I wanna, you know,
I wanna have a conglomerate one day.
I want, like, what was it?
Was it this urge to create, which
is obviously what I want you to say,
but, or was it, was it like, this
is my career, I can't see myself
working in Marks and Spencer's on the
door or something, you know, like.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah.
For me it was, it was my career.
It was just like, I'm gonna
bet everything I can on this.
You know?
It was, there was no, there was no other
way in my brain that made sense, you know?
So when it came to having a record
label, or when I had hazard crew with
my cousins when I was like 10, that was
our first entity called Hazard Crew.
And, you know, we was thinking
about market and promotion.
We had, we was burning blank CDs
and shopping them around the family.
artwork, and this is before we even
knew what the word marketing meant.
We just was thinking about we
have a product, we want as much
people to hear it as possible.
We weren't even thinking
about making money.
It was just we love this and
we want more people to love it.
And that obviously transforms and
helped shape my mind started to develop
throughout my career around the same
kind of independence and the same
kind of mechanism of wanting to be
able to bring people into my world.
You know?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: And you
said, you said Uncle Dennis there,
like, what, what did, did Uncle De,
was he just like a, an uncle who liked
buying Hi-Fi equipment or was he,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: the
producer for you two or something?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Nah.
So he is my, just my
uncle who liked music.
So he had like a studio his, in his
front room at the time he lived across,
oh no, he lived around the corner from
me and Broccoli and me and his kids.
Like we grew up together, my cousins.
So he, when he found out that I was
into music, he taught me the basics of
like how to like record myself and how
to use a mixer and how to use, I think
it was Nuendo or Cubase at the time.
And basically like.
My, my journey of self-sufficiency kind
of started with, sorry, it started at
my Auntie Carmen's, but I'd, I'd say it
developed to like, I'm gonna take this
as a career level at my Uncle Dennis's
because before that I would record
music with hazard crew at age of 10 11
by getting a little Windows microphone
that looks like a, like a tadpole.
And we used to put it
next to the speaker and.
The beat would come out of the
speaker and then we would rap with the
microphone right next to the speaker so
it could pick up the, the beat and our
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Mm-hmm.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
and that's, that is just what
I thought music studios was.
Then I went to my Uncle Dennis's and
he's like, no, this is a microphone.
This is a, a mixer.
This is an interface.
This is.
This is a DAW, this is a door.
This is how you record yourself.
So it transformed from like just
being young and experimenting to
like, oh no, this is how you do
it on a more professional level.
And my uncle Dennis, gave me
them early, them early skills and
early lessons and took time out.
You know, I've got older, so
I might, I might be he's age.
That he was at when he was
teaching me this stuff.
So he had a lot of patience, you know,
to, to like have a, I must have been
what, 14 or 15 at the time, or maybe
13, 14, 15, to have like patience
to kind of like teach me, knowing
like what I was gonna become today.
Just being like, you are my nephew.
I'm gonna teach you how to, to
use all this equipment, you know?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: So
when, when you were 14, like
what, what were you listening to?
Was, were you like carrying around
a Walkman or a record player?
Like what, what, what was in
your ears all the time or,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: So 14
would've been a MP free player,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: you know,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: mp,
free player lime wire, loads of
like illegally downloaded songs.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
on um, oh, come
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: it
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
Torrance or whatever it was.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: say again?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
I can't remember.
There's a website that every
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: actually.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: In Napster.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: was on Napster.
So it would've been, do you know
what it would've been, Craig, David?
It would've been so solid crew.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Craig,
David, can I get a rewind like that?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: that.
All of that early,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
that, was it 21 seconds to go?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: yeah.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I'm
gonna stop singing immediately.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
God, that was like,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: so solid crew.
It was genius crew.
It was Wiley and pay as you
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: yep.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Early dizzy.
Um, America would've been.
I can't say.
I was like early on Jay-Z and stuff.
He's my favourite rapper now.
But I wasn't like a hiphop kid.
I was a very like UK garage
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: like super
pop, like Britney Spears or something.
Or like s Club seven.
Like I didn't, I didn't really have
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: S Club seven
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
Yeah, I was listening to S Club.
They were lit.
Are you mad?
SCL seven
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I used to
work on this special needs programme
and the kids loved S club seven
and we used to go and see S Club
seven and the other one steps a lot.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Mm-hmm.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: and I
secretly really enjoyed 'cause you
had all the, you know, you had, I'm
trying to do the dance here folks, but
there was so much dance, all, all the
routine dancing was, was, was amazing.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
S Club seven was lit, man.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
didn't think you'd say that.
Blazing Squad as well.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: a pop
kid because I didn't, I didn't have
like sky and cable in my house, so
whatever came on top of the pops or
whatever was like on radio commercially
was what I was listening to.
And then I had pirate radio.
So it was either like Super Pirate
Radio with someone who was totally
like, no one knew about that was super
underground, or it was like S club seven.
I didn't really have a hip hop upbringing.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: So what
would, so living in London, which
radio station did you listen to?
Was it KISS or Capital?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
would've been FM very early on.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: It
would've been on top of F whenever
I could find it on the Dow.
But I would say I landed on
Kiss 100, Logan Sama show.
Like that was the grand, that was the
only Gramme show that was on, like what I
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: kiss.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
was on commercial radio.
Kiss
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Kiss
used to be great, like in the,
in the nineties because it used
to be a pirate radio station.
And then that was like, like you were
saying that in the, in the nineties it
was the only place you could hear like
really good house music and proper hiphop.
Not like cheesy hiphop music,
like proper hiphop music with
swear words and everything.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: yeah.
I get
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: and then
it, and now it's all kind of like.
Owned by the same company.
So what with, with all
that, I think that's enough.
Setting the scene folks like what,
what, when, so when you were 20,
what were you, what were you doing?
Were you still going
around youth clubs and
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: When I
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: rhymes or?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: was 20,
I was finishing or I'd finished
college and started a record
label with my, with my boy called.
Well, his name's age, and we started a
record label called Indigo Child Records,
and that was because we came across
the idea of Indigo children and we felt
like we were like these indigo children.
And then
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
What's, what's in
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: indigo
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I, I,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
time were like children that.
Was super gifted and felt,
we just felt special.
It was like, we're the special
kids, you know what I mean?
We're the,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: yep.
I do know that
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: So like That
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
I'm not, I'm not different.
I'm special.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
Yeah, no, literally.
So that was Indigo Child at the moment.
At that time.
So there was like, it's like
Nadia Rose, Sam Tomkins who,
who are super established now.
Who would've came from that?
Era, Angelo Des, um, who would've came
from my uncle's studio at the back of
my Nan's house, and we just had Indigo
child records and we would put out.
Music on there, and we'd
put our own shows on.
We'd go to venues, promote
the show ourselves, make the
flyers, put out the music.
Like it was an independent machine at
the time, and it was at a time when
a lot of people was relying on major
record labels, but we were just, again,
we didn't understand the business of
things, but we just knew how we wanted to
feel and how the flexibility we wanted.
We wanted to be able to make
decisions when we wanted to
make them that felt right to us.
So we had Indigo Child Records we was
printing up a bunch of CDs and I was
putting out my mix tape called the Calm.
So it was print, we had two
blank CD burners, like I think
they could burn like 10 each.
And we'd just sit there burning
CDs and then go around shopping
them to different people.
Um, and.
Yeah, that was it really.
That was, it wasn't, it was social
media was, was forming or it was, it
was a thing, but it was still about
like performing and getting your
name out there and having a room full
of people that have never seen you
before and having to kind of, I call
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: So that bit,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: but
bringing them into the code of us.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
So, so that, I love that.
I've like the, the, the Bernie verse,
but no one, no, no one knows where it is.
Um, but the, it's in my head, but
it, it's, it's really important.
Um, I mean this is, this is
part of the Bernie verse.
Well, how hard is it to get a room
full of people that don't know you?
Because you know, if I said I'm doing
a standup comedy routine, five of my
mates would come, but no one would come.
You know, or I'm playing guitar.
But trying to reach people with, with
your craft or your art outside of
your, you know, sphere of influence.
And that's, that's not what I mean,
like, outside people who know you.
'cause there's people that will
turn up just 'cause it's you
and they wanna support you.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Mm-hmm.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I've been
to loads of things where I probably
wouldn't go to that if it was someone
else, but I want to go and support
my Mates Act or their photography
exhibition or something like that.
Like how do you do that?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Well, you had
to kind of be on bigger shows, so you
had to figure out what were the shows
that people were attending all the time.
So there was one called I Love Live.
There was Sicka Bit,
there was Vibes with us.
There was, there was,
there was a bunch of.
Places that had like regular shows,
which meant they already had audiences
there that just believed in the brand
and was going to discover new music.
Or going sometimes to see
their favourite artists.
That would be on the lineups.
Sometimes lineups would
have like nine acts on it.
So you'd go, you'd, you'd link with those
promoters, you'd put yourself forward.
You get on that lineup, and your
sole objective would be to convert
as much people in that room.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Hmm.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: to bring
them into your world, you know?
So that's how I would do it.
I'd go on shows.
Sometimes I would open
up for bigger artists.
Like I remember opening up for Charlie
XCX, yeah, loads of different artists
just opening up for them and then
eventually like putting on my own shows.
So being able to like.
Do the rollouts to family and friends.
But I used to always have this policy
where it was like, you have to bring
someone who's never heard of coder.
So if you wanted a free ticket
or you was on the guest list, the
rule was you had to bring someone
who'd never heard of me before.
You couldn't be like, oh, I'm
gonna bring a mutual friend.
I'm like, no, it has to be someone
that had never heard a coder before.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yep.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: So
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: And
where, where was your, where
was your first show like that?
Or one of the first show?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: of
my first shows would've been.
One of the memorable ones would've
been like sicka bit a club.
Um, so a club was a collective I
was in, and Scabit was like the most
popular up and coming show at the time.
So if you was people like Stormy
and you know, early people like
that have been on like those early
sicker bit lineups, you know, so
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Wow.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: you'd go
and be on that lineup if you was,
you know, taking your career to the
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Was
that, was that when he was still
wearing his red tracks tracksuit.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: It
would've been, yeah, around
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Okay.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: It would've
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: that.
Yeah.
Just before he started taking off.
Like that was the platform we all went to.
So those are some of my
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: that was.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: moments
because you'd visibly get to see
an audience that was into your
type of music, engage with it.
You know, like you, you got to kind of
test whether that record was hot or not
because of people's reactions, you know?
So that would be like the first
time I'd say that I got to.
That I, that I remember going and, and
like having to convert the crowd every
time to the point where I eventually
became like the headline act of Sicka
bit and then it was just insane.
Like it was just mosh pits crowd guy.
Crazy.
Like they knew my lyrics.
Yeah, it was mad Matt.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I, I always
imagine like when you, you know, get
to a point where people can finish.
I remember, I remember gonna see naughty
by nature at Hammersmith Pal and I think
it's Trey would be like hip hop and
everyone would go, hooray ho, and like.
And just, you know, being in the
audience, hearing that was enough.
And I imagine being on stage and
people finish the line for you is,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: man.
Like I say, it's a
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: yeah.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: and I miss it.
So that's why this year I'm gonna hit the
road again on my circle, the end store.
I'm going back on the road
because I miss that feeling.
You know, I've been deep in business
world and been making progress on this
side, but I miss being out there and
like touching the people and, and,
and just feeling that energy of being
on stage and, you know, I miss that.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
So that's a good point.
'cause it, we we're gonna get, we're
gonna talk about the blue garage
bit in a minute, but, I, folks, I'm
making him do this, like he's looking
for venues to go and perform in, in
like, it's a bit like sofa sounds, but
it's like coda sounds and I, I want.
Him to go and do this in coworking spaces.
But can you, can you go and say
your requirements and say, 'cause a
little tour of coworking spaces in
neighbourhoods would be a, a good
thing to do that That's my idea.
You know,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: like,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: it takes off,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
down like Bernie.
If, if Bernie wants to be the
promoter for it, I'm down.
Like, you can get me, get me
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I've
always wanted to be a promoter,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: You
can be my coworking promoter.
Where we get in coworking
spaces, you know.
But yeah,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: to,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
I'll be on that.
I'm actually being serious.
Like, I'd be on, I'd be on exploring
that because you've got, you've got the
network and I've got the, the, the, the,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
I got the brains.
You got the power.
Let's make, lets, so, so if someone's
gonna perform, if someone's gonna
host you in their coworking space for
a night of music, what do you need?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Just PA
system and a microphone really, and just.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
able to plug in equipment.
Like sometimes I have like
a drum machine, PA speakers.
I've got them so I
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: with them or
I could hire some local to you or they'll
just have some local, can get some local.
Um, and then I just bring
my film team and that's it.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: That's it.
So, you know, folk, a lot of
people have podcast studios.
It'll be like a podcast studio
session, but with a bigger audience
and you know, a bit more jump in.
Okay.
But
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: can have a
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: that.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: I've
got, you know, I'm in, I'm in the,
the, the, the space world a bit.
well, not even a bit.
I'm in there and music.
So it's interesting.
We can have a, we can do music and
have a chat as well about the future of
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Could,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: And my name's
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I think
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: coworking code.
Yeah.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: coder working.
Eh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
go and get that domain in 10 seconds.
So, so to lead it on
there, there's, I, I just.
I've been in spaces and you know, in the
last like 15 years of coworker and I've
been in spaces that are just like, hello?
Would you like a desk?
Yes, that's really nice.
You know, we've got some, whatever,
you know, that kind of thing.
And then I've been in spaces where it's.
It's not necessarily to do with how
the furniture looks and everything,
but there's like people, there's a
lot of friction in there 'cause people
are like creating and working things
out and you know, you sit down at,
you sit down for lunch and someone's
going, oh, I'm really like my, the
last chapter, my book's not going,
or my, my song's not coming through.
Or I'm trying to make this video.
And people go, oh, have you tried this?
And it's like a throwaway comment at
a table and then someone goes back and
goes, oh yeah, you know, that worked.
And there's this energy.
That is, and I don't mean like creative
as in hi, we are the creative industries.
You know, we all like ran soho and
Charlotte Street drinking champagne.
It's like the people kind of
like who have a headache because
they haven't created that day.
And there's, there's loads of, I I,
I want to, and I hope that coworking
spaces like Blue Garage, which
we'll get to in a second, I keep
promising that folks, but where.
Everything's mashed together and you
can be creative in your neighbourhood.
And I've got, I know I've met so many
people who travel into town 'cause they
think that's where all the creatives are.
And that is true to a certain extent.
It will go and sit around, is it Ace
Hotel or wherever it was in, in Shor.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: the
one, it's called the hundred now.
Yeah.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: So they, they
all sit there because you are more likely,
you're more likely to bump into coder in
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
there than you are in Ilford.
In Redbridge.
But if everyone stayed in the
neighbourhood like you, you
bump into each other there.
So what, what are you, I hope that
what you folks are doing in Blue
Garage will be one of those things.
So what are you doing?
What are you doing in Blue Garage?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
so let's talk about the
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: studios.
We.
10,000 hours of free studio
time to the local community in
our broccoli location, right?
And helped launch careers
and stuff like that.
But also it showed me.
How people were using the space.
Sometimes people were
using it to make music.
Sometimes people were just using it
to have meetings like that, those
tiny rooms became like coworking
spaces in themselves, and they also
became delivery infrastructure.
So we was working with universal and
different labels and brands to deliver.
Youth related projects in the space.
So very quickly I started to realise like,
okay, I see this as a music studio, but a
corporate brand or something sees this as.
A space that they can deliver programmes.
You know, the, the person down
the road that, comes there because
their friends recording, but
they do work on their laptop.
They see it as a coworking space.
You know, so getting into that kind of
mentality and then also having my mentor
be like Miguel, who was co-founder of
WeWork and him like being able to tell
me, you know, the story that not on.
the world doesn't know
if that makes sense.
Like I'm
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Oh,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: of
this information and I'm like,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: What is
a bit, because you, you can't, you
can't say Miguel from WeWork and we,
we on a coworking values podcast and
skip over it, you know, because, like
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: you know,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: What
have you picked up from him in and,
and in a, kind of, in the context
of what we're talking about here.
Not like,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: I would.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: not like
mainstream media bollocks, but like
what, what have you picked up from him?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: I would say the
importance of community in a space, right?
But the danger of what happens when.
Things are very community
centric and revenues prioritised.
So what I'm basically saying is like,
there's the person who has a, there's
the, there's the person who has the
big heart, who wants to help everyone
and wants to see community thrive
and about every single aspect of.
The community in the space, but then
there's the revenue side and sometimes
those things contradict each other.
Right?
And finding that balance is key because
it essentially shapes the type of
people that come through the door.
And it also shapes.
The perception of that space, I
hope I'm making sense, but it, it's
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: And also
the power of scaling too quickly to.
You know, with Undeniable, it was
Undeniable Studios an undeniable,
it was undeniable sports.
It was un, it was undeniable everything.
And it was like, wait, wait, let's
just focus on the MVP, which, which
is undeniable studios, and let's
focus on that and then build that to
a point where, you can, you can, you
can create other products and other
things off the back of it based on
there already being a demand for it.
Does that make sense?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah, it is
like the, the, the whole, you know, there
was a time where I had like five websites.
And I didn't do anything on any of them.
This was a very long time ago, folks.
I'm so sophisticated now, but I had
like five websites because I wanted
to do a food blog, a travel blog,
a you know, whatever it was, blog.
Um, and like, none of them went anywhere.
'cause you just, someone would, I'd have
a conversation like this and I'd start, I
know a, a Miguel blog or something, and I,
I wanna go back to, look, I think that's,
that's a really important point, and go
back to that community thing as well,
is there's, there's always this tension
because there are, there's, I've been part
of projects where everyone's like, it's,
it's, it's for everybody and it's so well
intentioned, but like, there's no money.
It's like you go to the till and
there's like no money to buy tea
bags, let alone pay the power bill
so that there's, and then there's.
The, the whole gentrification
thing, because there's like.
If places, if pla there's, there's a, I'm
just trying to think of, as I'm saying,
I'm, I'm stalling 'cause all these names
of places are coming into my head and I
can't really say 'em 'cause it's horrible.
But there, there's places that open up
and they completely change the area.
So that becomes a kind of affluence thing.
You know, like a have you
got, are you rich enough?
Is, is that positioned?
Because there's no, like you
running around, you know,
with your MP three player.
And you know, you, you would probably have
got into Blue Garage, but you wouldn't
have got into a WeWork and you, you
are denied access on economic grounds.
And, and I'm being, you've
gotta be realistic here.
'cause you know, you're either gonna
buy, you know, you're gonna buy a Bentley
if you have the money to buy a Bentley.
It's not that kind of, but there's,
there's, I've just come across, you
know, a lot of people in, urban MBA
would not get into a coworking space.
Because they wouldn't even know that
it was for them, 'cause of the way
it's positioned and communicated.
So there's,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: different
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
I make it, I'm,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: in
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: you know,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: and, and
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: that's it.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: is why one
of my, one of my reasons why I wanted
to come on here as well, because.
I am one of the, an explorer in my
heart in it, so I'm always gonna
move into different industries and my
curiosity will take me around the world.
So I'm curious enough to, to, to, to want
to explore coworking spaces and to all,
and, and to also understand that before I
did meet I didn't see myself being WeWork.
Do you know what I
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yeah,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
when I met him, I was like.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Oh,
like we're clicking differently.
Like I, of course I could be
there, but actually I wanna
start my own type of situation.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Because again.
Me being an explorer and curious,
that will always make me stumble
across someone like Miguel and
end up in a WeWork or whatever.
But not everyone's as curious.
Some people need it more like
front facing, like this is
for creatives from X, Y, Z.
Do you know what I mean?
Like people, sometimes people do
need it, do need it spelled out.
And that's one of my things about
wanting to work with Blue Garage, having
that space in Lewisham that I wasn't.
Completely aware of and then go in there
and, and finding so many touch points
I can connect with, like fashion tech,
like loads of different things and
type of people that are in the space.
I'm like, okay, well I need to
come in with Louie and, make this
space not have the same kind of.
Challenges that other places face where
they, where, where they just don't
come across inviting to, to enough
different type of people, you know?
And I don't want something in my
ends to feel like that when, when
I've been there and I haven't felt
like that when I've been there.
There's places you go to and
you feel like, okay, this ain't,
this don't feel like it's for me.
You know what I'm saying?
But Blue Garage didn't
give me that feeling.
It felt like, oh, just
need to know this place.
Exists, you know, outside
of the people that already
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: It.
It
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: exists.
But
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: is.
Got it.
Is.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: people
from my world need to know this
place exists because if they do,
like they're gonna come in and
they're gonna utilise it, you know?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I met so
many people along the way, even before
I knew anything about coworking.
They go, if only there was a place where
like, I haven't done my thing 'cause
I haven't got 500 pound to buy a wash,
a sew machine or have much it cost.
But you know, there's
no access to all those.
Although in fact, if you think about
what you would need to put on a a show,
you need costumes and music and dry ice
and lighting and everything like that.
And there's people that can make things,
but they don't, you know, they live
in an apartment, so they haven't got
the space to have that kind of stuff.
And I just.
I know place, places like that, you
know, if there really was a, a blue
garage type thing in more places.
I, I think as well as it's gonna be,
you know, the way, the way tech and
everything and the world of work is
changing, like being creative, you know,
like was it in the front of your website?
If you, if you always have
ideas, you'll be okay.
What's the exact line?
Yeah.
And, and I don't mean ideas
like Uber and, you know.
Whatever it is, Spotify, but like, you
know, I wanna make something I, that whole
kind of artisan thing, you know, I'd, I'd
rather buy, I'd rather buy a CD or a few
than, you know, milli Vanilli, whatever.
It's nowadays, you know, and I'd rather
go to a concert by someone who is
still creating and at the edge of it.
And I'd rather buy a plate that, you
know, is, has a bit of a story to it.
I'm getting all
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: like for
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
bleary-eyed here, you know.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: You know,
and, and you're never broke if you got
ideas isn't just attached to money.
It's attached to the, to my belief,
that idea, a currency and the ability
to, to back and bring an idea to
life is, is a form of currency.
And, and, and different
currencies have different value
in different countries and stuff.
And it depends, you know, what you do
with that idea that, that ultimately.
Changes, whether it's an Uber or
whether it's something that is an
Uber, but it, it, it brings as much
joy to you and, and you know, whatever.
But I'm just a believer that like
ideas that everything we are looking
at around us came from an idea.
So for me, like they are, they are
is a currency within itself and
it's, it's a lot of the reasons
why I've been able to find success.
In different pockets
is because of my ideas.
Like I get bought into a space like Blue
Garage and I'm leading with my ideas.
I'm, I'm, I meet Miguel and it's like my
ideas, my ideas, music, it's my ideas.
A lot of my ideas are, have helped
shape the reality I live in today.
So that's why I'm always
like, you're never broke.
If you got ideas, because I'm a
living, I'm a living testament to
it, and so many of us are, you know.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: And do,
do you have, this is gonna turn into
like a Creative Mornings podcast
now, but I do you, I like, I kind of.
Like at the moment, there's a lot of
things I've been thinking about for
years all popping up in the same place.
So all the dots are joining.
So, you know, I, I had an idea
for this in 2014 while going up an
escalator in Lakeside Shopping Centre.
I haven't done anything with
it and it suddenly pops up,
you know, like last week.
And do, do you, do you have a, do
you have a, as you, do you have a
gestation, percolation thing or do
they all fire off at the same time?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: man.
Like, but it's because they
all stem from like the same
pillars, if that makes sense.
Like, creativity,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Yep.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: like,
you know, there, there's certain
pillars that I have with a
conscious or subconscious that like.
All the ideas just align to the
same telephone pole, or same like
satellite dish, you know what I mean?
It's all, it all stems from like
one, like creative expression and
wanting to see creativity expressed
in some shape or form, you know, and
wanting to either be the person who
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: That
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: it or
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: that is
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: that
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: for me
it's joining all the dots like in like,
and, and it is always got something
to do with people, food and music.
And so when there's, when there's all
those, like that's, that's why we had
that food at Blue Garage because it's,
you know, we could have got, could have
got cheese and ham sandwiches from Marks
and Spencer's, but it had to be that food.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: That,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: those people,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352:
don't take into consideration.
Like those things are like
after fruits for people are
like, yeah, people need to eat.
Like we just get some sandwiches.
But that kind of experience
and the woman coming up and
speaking about, you know, the
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: of
the, you know, running in her
family and stuff like that.
For me, context is I'm
like, I'm a context freak.
Like I love context and
if I could literally like.
Precious thing here that
could tell me like where it
was from, how it was sourced.
Like I would love it because
I'm just a context guy.
So when I went and, and I experienced
the food and the woman giving the
context, it was like I had a different
level of appreciation for the food.
Even being Caribbean myself, that's not,
that's not food I don't have at home.
But there was a different
appreciation for like had gone
into this specific food, you know?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: I love that
there's, and then like here in where,
where I live, there's like five coffee
shops within like, less than half a mile
of me that they roast their own coffee.
And when you go in there, like when
I was in London, I went to Canary
Wharf and everything's geared.
Even if it says like local roastery,
everything's geared to give you
that coffee as quickly as possible.
And every day I go for a coffee here
and you just can't go for a coffee,
you have to go in here like, oh,
this was the, I met this bloke here
and this is what, how it was made.
And there's a whole story of why
they started the Roastery and,
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: this is a
new, this is a new grind we've got, um.
And then making it in the thing.
So let, let's wrap up 'cause we still
manage not to talk about Blue Garage.
What is, what, what are you
doing there and with Louis and
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: A
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: what
do you hope will come out of it?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: in
Residence, and me and Louis are
the first creatives in residence.
So it's a programme where we're gonna
create, we're gonna come up with
an idea and create a commercially
viable product or products utilising.
The Blue Garage space and network as well.
One of the things we're doing is launching
an undeniable studios in the space.
So we're gonna put a music studio in
blue garage, and that music studio will
be open for commercial use as well.
And we're also gonna be planning
the circle, the end store.
In the space, which is
my own personal tour.
So like the merch, the, the signage and
all of the, the physical products that
can be made, which everything can be
made at Blue Garage will be made there.
And we're also talking to a, a, a, a
big artist at the moment about doing a
collaboration with us whilst we're doing
our creatives in residence as well.
Also using the space to
do brand activations.
Create like a, more of a cultural
programming as well and also being
able to bring in, I come from brand
partnerships, so being able to bring
in brand partnerships to people
that are residents in Blue Garage.
So say for example, there's a fashion
designer who designed shoes, being able
to go to my network of Adidas or I don't
know who, new Balance or whoever else
is in my network, and say, Hey, you
can actually prototype product here.
You know, so also bringing in, business
to blue garage by like looking at.
The people they have in there as a
talent roster that undeniable can
represent and get partnerships for.
So it's partnerships, it's
commercial studio and it's
creating commercial product there,
and ultimately it's unlocking.
The creative potential of the
community around Blue Garage as
well and raising the awareness.
'cause a lot of people still are
yet to hear about Blue Garage in
Lewisham . So having me and Louis in
there, we are both good examples of
people who have found some, some sort
of success from, from the community.
So being, having us as kind of like
flagship creatives in the space
is gonna invite other creatives
to want to use the space as well.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: That,
that, that's one of my biggest hopes
for things like that, and I've seen
other projects like this over the
years, is people in the neighbourhood
going, I can go in there and do that.
You know, if, if I, you know.
Where, where I lived in
Elford, for like 15 years.
There was, there was things going
on, but there was no blue garage or
coworking space or anything like that.
And you always had to like leave the area
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Yeah,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: go and
find, you know, go and sit on the
sofa in Ace Hotel and not on the off
chance of, and to have it in your
neighbourhood especially, especially for.
Like young people, if you like, can
rock out of your school or sixth
form college and go into someone like
Blue Garage and carry on creating.
Imagine that what, you know,
what, what that would do for your
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: it's,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
soul and your career over time.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: opportunity to,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Um.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: as I said,
just unlock that, that local, we say
fostering local greatness are undeniable.
Like it's gonna give us
another chance to do it.
Like we've done it in broccoli,
we've done it in sho and it's
now like main lutian doing that.
And, and, and, and the,
the model has been.
Proven it's been tested
and I'm a product of it.
So being able to do it in main Lewisham
and having Michael's back in and Alan's
back in like, has been good because they
just get it and they're trusting us.
So my hope is not even my hope, my,
my drive and my commitment is for
other coworking spaces that are.
Forward thinking in a way of like
looking how they could maximise certain
parts of their space commercially or
creatively, like having conversations.
Because if I'm able to set up an
undeniable studios in different coworking
spaces, then they can also start to to, to
also attract that creativity in that way.
Like musical creativity, artistic
creativity into their spaces.
And as well, what you start to realise is.
You can from a business angle as well,
like you can get in on IP as well because
if stuff's being made in your space,
there is situations where you know, you
could co-own IP or you can just have a
different arm of your business where like
this commercially successful product or
whatever product has come from this space
and it just brings another layer of depth
to your coworking space as well, you know?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: There.
There, there's, there's, there's too
many to list, but I know things that
have started in coworking spaces
that people use every day, and
it's like so amazing to be Oh yeah.
Like, you know.
Like Kit, which is Convert Kit, started
in, a coworking space in the States.
And I dunno if they're still there
anymore, but it is, it's very
cool to say that we, we should,
So where, where can we track you
down and all those kind of things.
So coder, where can we track you
down and hunt you down online
and all those type of things.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Just
undeniable, spelt like it is in the
English dictionary, in the Oxford
Dictionary, um, the Oxford Dictionary.
And then coder,
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352:
the Oxford dictionary.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Undeniable uk.
You can just drop me an email.
there.
I'm on Instagram as big code
B-I-G-K-O-D-E-Z across all social media.
So yeah, that's my email,
my social, and my website.
So you should be able to, to
lock into one of those three.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: So folks.
As a, as a, a big reveal
at the end of the podcast.
Um, we met coder at, blue Garage on the
24th, and we did Unreasonable Connection,
and we're doing that again in Space four
on May the 19th and coder and other people
from that whole show are gonna be there.
So if, if people bump into you at
Space four, what, what do you want
'em to ask you about starting a, an
undeniable studio in their coworking
space or your, or your world tour?
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: studios
in their coworking space and able to
give them the framework of, of like
how to build that and, you know,
how to foster that local greatness
wherever they're based, you know?
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: That's great.
There's, a lot of good stuff
has come outta Space four.
I've known it since it's begun and
it was one of the first affordable
workspaces in the Islington programme.
And, one of the best things that everyone
knows is the founders and coders, was.
Born there, which is a
coding mentoring programme.
And also every Wednesday for like
nearly 10 years now, they've done a
community lunch where they just, loads
of people chuck five pound in a bowl
in the old days when we have money, and
then they go to a local restaurant and
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: yeah, yeah.
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: just
say, here's a big pile of cash.
How much food can we get for that?
And take it back.
I love it.
All right folks.
Really appreciate your time.
Great to meet you at Blue Garage.
And ladies and gentlemen,
we are gonna end up here.
If you go through the show notes,
there's how to get Hold of Coder.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: Soon.
Love
bernie_2_03-10-2026_143352: Coda.
koder_2_03-10-2026_133352: baby.
Hells teeth!
Batman!
I wish I could say undeniable
baby and sound as cool as coder.
So this is the little link
in the show notes bit.
There's everything coder talked about
will be in the show notes for this episode
and you can find that on our website.
We now move the podcast to
London cowork and assembly.com
and there'll be a little button on
the left hand side of the website
where you can see these show notes.
Coming up on the 6th of May, as we
talked about, is European Coworking
Day, and we'll link to a post in there
which tells you how to do an actionism
screening, or I say screaming by mistake.
Probably got about the time posting this.
There's about 10 places in the UK
and Europe that have signed up to.
Host one of those on
European coworking data.
It's a really, really worthwhile
way to instigate a conversation
in your coworking space.
And of course there is the, unreasonable
Connection event back on the May
the 19th at the time of recording.
And there's a link to buy tickets
to that in the show notes too,
and also come and participate
in the LinkedIn coworking group.
There's only 8,000 people in
there, and when even just 10
more people participate in there.
The amount of people that actually
visit the group goes from like a
few hundred to over a thousand.
So the more, I don't know if any of
you know this by, you know, running
a coworking space or community,
but the more people that show up
and tinker a little bit, the more
people will come and join in.
Anyway.
Thank you for your time
and attention today.
Wherever you are in the
world, be careful out there.
It is a jungle.