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There’s no shortage of hot takes, trends, and “next big things.” Creator marketing moves fast, but we’re interested in what actually holds up for brands, creators, and their audiences.
Collectively Verified is a creator marketing podcast hosted by Natalie Silverstein, Chief Innovation Officer at Collectively, featuring the leaders shaping the industry and the firsthand experience behind the ideas getting attention. We make sense of what matters now, and what’s worth carrying forward.
Not everything deserves your attention. We’re here to help verify what does.
Marissa Solan (00:00):
What we've learned is it's really that larger pool of lifestyle creators who really move the needle on these spaces. It's that age old people like me kind of factor that comes into play. And Edelman, they do a trust barometer research annually. It's very well known. And there was a tidbit that came out recently that actually showed that 69% of people, they roughly say they consider a legitimate health expert, someone who actually experiences, has personal experience with a given health issue.
Natalie Silverstein (00:37):
In creator marketing, we talk a lot about creative freedom, but I actually think brands that are getting it right are proving that freedom and control aren't opposites. The right guardrails can give brands the confidence to hand creators more of the keys. And sometimes the more constrained the category, the more important that actually becomes. Today I'm talking with Marissa Solan. She leads earned and social media for Haleon in the US. That's the company behind brands like Advil, Theraflu, Sensodyne, and Toms. This is a category where what a creator says can have real regulatory implications, and yet Marissa and her team are finding ways to give creators more room to experiment, not less. So that's the idea I want to test today. What happens when brands stop thinking about control and creator freedom as a trade-off and start building systems that make both possible? This is Collectively Verified, a creator marketing podcast.
(01:27):
I'm Natalie Silverstein. Let's get into it. Today we have with us Marissa Solan, who is the director of US Earned and Social Media at Haleon. And Haleon, if you can explain to us, Marissa, what that is, that'd be great just to set the tone for how we're going to have a conversation about these very particular types of brands.
Marissa Solan (01:45):
Yeah. Haleon is a consumer company specializing in healthcare. We make iconic brands like Advil, Centrum, Tum, Sensodyne. Four years ago, Haleon spun off from GSK and so has been on this really incredible transformation to operate as a CPG organization and all of the aspects of that transformation you can imagine is easy, hard, fast, slow. It's been a great ride.
Natalie Silverstein (02:13):
I think that transition is interesting and I know that your background has been in consumer brands. So maybe you can tell us just a little bit about what you did before you came to Haleon and then we'll talk a little bit about how you've brought that to the creator and social work that you're doing now.
Marissa Solan (02:25):
Yeah, this is my first opportunity that I've been in-house as they call it. I was agency side the whole beginning and up till this point of my career. Most recently I was at Edelman for 10 years where I supported and led Dov and Unilever business. So really amazing opportunity to be exposed and in the thick of the forefront of brand marketing, creator marketing and all that included as far as being the first and really trying new things. So bringing that experience to Haleon where they want to chart that path and catch up and be bold in how they are engaging with consumers in a way that maybe a pharmaceutical organization doesn't always prioritize has been a really incredible experience.
Natalie Silverstein (03:14):
Knowing that those are really different types of consumer brands, how did your mental model have to change to even get into the work? Thinking about creators and in that wellbeing space, healthcare space, can you tell us a little bit about just how you had to shift your mindset a bit?
Marissa Solan (03:30):
In the day-to-day, I don't feel it as that different. However, I recognize that today I do operate in a little bit of a different environment as far as again, that legacy pharma structures and protocol that had been typical and how we're really trying to either modernize or celerate how we think about these spaces. So what I'll say though is here at Haleon, yes, we have claims and messages that have to be really thoughtfully articulated and done so in certain ways, but we do really pride ourselves on three elements that give us still strong freedom of expression with our creator partners, for instance. The first is our marketing teams have very strong relationships with our friends in legal, for instance. I know I've seen memes even within your feed in social creator PR realms that you got to be besties with your legal partner to win.
(04:27):
And there really is this solid foundation of trust and always on connectivity there. With that partnership, we've set a new standard to craft social first claims that are built to live and thrive in social environment, which as we all know, requires more flexibility, vernacular than let's say what's required on pack. We give these social first claims to our creators with that heavy dose of urging creative and genuine self-expression, all of which I do believe allows us to still celebrate a creator's unique stories, their imagination. So with those kind of structures and mindset in place, I haven't found it all dramatically different than my previous experience that in theory kind of pronote more flexibility.
Natalie Silverstein (05:15):
Yeah, that's interesting. So I'm curious if creators are surprised by anything when they're being briefed on these programs that are for these OTC over-the-counter types of products. Are they expecting more rigidity than maybe you're giving them?
Marissa Solan (05:28):
I find the reverse actually happens is that we're really surprised, and maybe because creators are so advanced today and they really can take a brief and see through it and bring such energy to it, but we end up being the ones surprised at how truly creative and inventive some of our creator partners are in interpreting our briefs. We recently had a partner for Flonase who created a banger of a song. We love how creators can really definitely adapt their skits around our products and messages as another example. So I don't know what each individual creator might say about how they think of our briefs or our messages or our claims directly, but I think maybe I can deduce through how they interpret our briefs that ability to make what they want with it.
Natalie Silverstein (06:17):
So would you almost say the constraints that just have to exist because there are legal ramifications for going beyond on claims and things like that, would you say that those constraints are sort of helpful for the creators to be more inventive even?
Marissa Solan (06:29):
I mean, you don't have to be a creator. You can be an agency team, you could be a creative director. There's parameters to a brief is what makes good work happen, a truly just kind of pie in the sky, no parameters makes it almost harder to do the assignment or capture what the kind of insight is going to be that's going to lead to the creative idea. So yeah, I have to believe that certain guardrails, not too many guardrails allow for work to sing.
Natalie Silverstein (06:57):
I feel like there's always this tension in creator marketing of, at least from the agency side, we hear from creators that they just want more and more freedom, that it's as creator marketing needs to do more jobs for a brand, we're crafting content both to do really well in terms of video views in an algorithmic feed, let's say, plus also be ready for paid media and also maybe be an asset for other ad placements, this, that and the other and now layering in potentially also optimization for LLM citation. And so you can imagine, at least we see on the agency side, potentially adding list after list after list of things that they got to do. So we're hearing that kind of like the brands are really asking for content to do a lot of things, but creators just want freedom. But I think I agree with you that there's a lot of value in at least some clear constraints that enable a direction for a creator.
Marissa Solan (07:48):
I think another thing that we've seen work is when we bring on a large volume of creators for a certain project or certain innovation launch or certain campaign, we essentially come up with a slate of different, I don't want to be overly latching onto claims, but a slate of messages that then they have license to choose which one speaks to them or which one their audience will really resonate with. So that allows freedom within a framework as far as their ability to choose versus us overly dictating if that's a perception that they have.
Natalie Silverstein (08:26):
So you mentioned that one scenario where you're hiring a lot of creators. I want to just take a zoom out and hear a little bit about the overall program that you're running. So just to give folks a sense of what does it look like to be at the center of creator and social marketing in a multi-brand company like Haleon?
Marissa Solan (08:45):
There's not one model that we use or one structure that we think about. Each of our brands does have license to brief how they want to and bring on board based on their consumer, based on their budget, based on their job to be done, the type of model. And we work really closely with our influencer partners to bring those strategies and creative articulations to life. Though, I'll give a few examples. For instance, right now we're recording in June, world's biggest soccer stage is happening right now and we have Haleon in the US has a partnership with the US Soccer Federation, and so we are supporting the US men's national team as well as the women's team, et cetera. It's a three-year partnership, and we've built a really robust ecosystem of creator partners to be able to connect with the various consumer cohorts who are important to us.
(09:39):
Some of those consumer cohorts include superfans, right? That seems natural. People dialed in and who are going to be watching the games both on a traditional TV screen as well as second screening on social for instance, but also the new to the sport fans. Soccer is, as we know, not the most popular sport here in the US, but it's one of the fastest growing. And so we anticipate through this milestone moment, it being a really once in a lifetime opportunity for Americans to be introduced to this game and to feel connected and have an emotional attachment to this experience. And so how do we capture those hearts and minds in the process? You can imagine other cohorts like the wellness cohort, the soccer mom cohort, healthcare practitioners who we also want to bring on board when we're talking about sports and athleticists, keeping your body healthy and strong.
(10:34):
That's an instance in where it's really kind of far and wide reaching who we want to reach. It's highly complex in nature because it's a scale brand marketing play where we have five hero brands represented in that campaign effort across multiple retailers. So as you alluded to, Natalie, the intricacy that's required to map out which messages to which cohorts, driving to which retailers for which brands, it's incredibly complex and requires really strong orchestration in the strategy development as well as all the nitty-gritty content reviews or recruitment, content reviews, go live, trafficking, measurement. So that's just one example of how we are at Helion advancing our capability and ideally our performance in market with consumers.
Natalie Silverstein (11:28):
That's a lot of content to be producing, and I think to go from zero to this huge robust multilevel program in four years is a lot. I'm curious from an infrastructure perspective, what you've built in order to be able to make that possible.
Marissa Solan (11:44):
We've built a number of different tools and resources, if you will, to ensure that we're able to handle the volume, but also not volume for volume sake, really strong strategy underpinnings. Frankly, half of the effort is ensuring that our people, our team members, our colleagues really have deep understanding of the social space, the creator space, and so that's an ongoing effort. Even for my specific team that is directly responsible for understanding the space, as you well know, it's constantly evolving, changing and modernizing itself. So ensuring that everyone feels equipped to understand how to take the knowledge of the social and creator space and adapt it into a strong, crisp brief, not only to creators, but to our agency partners, what should they be looking at when they're reviewing content? How are we thinking about performance and measurements? And that's not just with our brand team members, but also with our players like legal, medical, regulatory, et cetera.
(12:51):
So really ensuring that the people involved feel confident and capable to take on this task with us. Also, we are an enterprise, we're not just one brand, and we want to ensure that there are certain standards in place. We've created playbooks that we hope were created that don't just sit on a shelf, but are a great cheat sheet and a resource that teams can quickly touch upon, "Oh, that's the intel that I need. Okay, great. I'm going to go action, X, Y, Z kind of question and answer that they received, but also put in place systems that help the work go faster, whether that's obviously using certain creator software, but ways of working and checklists sounds really tactical, but that's what allows the work to progress from A to Z, for instance. And I know I keep mentioning measurement, but from an investment and a measurement point of view, having centralized guidance while we continue to mature in this space, I'd still like to say we're well on our way, but there's still aspirational space that we want to get to soon.
(14:03):
But to give centralized guidance on investment levels as well as what good looks like from a performance point of view is really important and allows all of our teams across the board a good starting point.
Natalie Silverstein (14:17):
From the measurement and performance perspective, a lot of CPG brands are mainly focused on awareness and conversion, that we know is always there. I'm curious for your particular category, if there are other maybe less immediately measurable, tangible, numbers oriented goals that you're trying to hit around behavior change or perception, curious what that looks like and how you're thinking about creators in that context.
Marissa Solan (14:42):
Yeah, that's a great question. So what I'll say is we do care, as you've mentioned, about the metrics that help us understand our awareness levels and driving conversion. Other metrics that are coming online now are related, I know you hinted on it earlier, is our LLM visibility and the new search environment. How are we better understanding the role creator and social content plays in influencing and training the LLMs, and then thereby the responses that the LLMs are delivering to consumers in those one-on-one chat forums. So that's something that I feel proud that we are on top of and getting ahead of with our brands. You mentioned driving trust or health behavior change a hundred percent spaces that are incredibly important for us to tackle. Driving trust in products like Advil and Centrum are paramount for different reasons. So for instance, Advil to reassure around safety, which is very well documented when used as directed, as well as Centrum to reassure around efficacy, which did you know, I'll have to do my little brand plug here, Centrum is the most researched multivitamin on the planet with a really robust canon of clinical studies to back the effects.
(16:03):
And so when we think about those jobs to be done vis-a-vis creator, you might naturally think like, okay, great, let's use HCP creators, healthcare professional creators to help credentialize and drive that trust, educate around certain conditions, let's say like sensitive teeth or encourage a new health routine. And 100%, obviously that's the job that those type creators play, that's the whole point of bringing them on board. They help obviously kind of tackle any trust gaps or helping consumers adopt a new routine, for instance. But the other thing I'll mention on HCPs is they're no joke. They unsurprisingly have very high standards. They really push us to co-develop strong content and messages that they know will really sink in with their audiences. So in other words, we have found that HCPs can and do support even our creative effectiveness goals. Now, the other thing that I'll mention in this space is I'd really be remiss to only touch upon the HCP creators as a support mechanism to tackling areas like driving trust or adopting new routines.
(17:11):
What we've learned is it's really that larger pool of lifestyle creators who really move the needle on these spaces. It's that age old people like me kind of factor that comes into play. And Edelman, they do a trust barometer research annually. It's very well known. And there was a tidbit that came out recently that actually showed that 69% of people, they roughly say, I might not get the stat perfect, but they roughly say that they consider a legitimate health expert, someone who actually experiences, has personal experience with a given health issue. And we've really lived into that finding and see it play out very strongly, especially in areas like GLP-1, for instance, which is a top priority for our brands to meet that consumer with brands like Tums and Benefiber, which help in the symptom relief space of that GLP-1 experience. So yeah, that's what I would say on that front as far as the role creator plays in supporting some of those behavioral or more intangible metrics that we want to drive.
Natalie Silverstein (18:18):
Yeah, that's so interesting that your point about someone who has experienced said health condition is seen as much of an expert as someone with 10 years of training against. That's really interesting.
Marissa Solan (18:30):
And you can imagine it for an organization like Haleon, again, which has such deep heritage in, sure, a literal pharmaceutical organization, but deep, deep heritage in expert marketing and expert direct relationships, which is a hugely important foundation of our business. It is a different way of thinking about how we tackle these type jobs to be done. It feels new and it feels different and has required some learning and living into for us.
Natalie Silverstein (18:59):
I'm curious if your teams are sourcing ideas for those types of stories, those kind of real people stories from Reddit or even participating in Reddit at all. It's sort of an emergent space for creators. There's a lot of experimentation with brands bringing in sponsored AMAs with their creators, but also again, looking at ways to be present in conversations. I'm curious how you're thinking about that, just knowing that there's a connection there.
Marissa Solan (19:24):
Very hot topic. I'll disclose I'm a personal Reddit super fan. I'm partial to embracing the power that that platform can offer. As we speak today, Reddit is serving as a social listening kind of source for us, which is not uncommon, of course. And yes, it can inform so much, not just understanding the consumer insights that can then guide a strategy or even a creative direction, but also give clues as to what innovation, what formats, what flavors, what issues people are experiencing that we can tackle in ways that we haven't thought about a certain product able to tackle. And that's frankly a key element of that GLP-1 kind of strategy that's a priority for us. So right now, social listening, but we also know that Reddit is not only serving as a really important place to engage with consumers directly, but a very powerful influence on those LLMs and those new search environments.
(20:28):
So we are rapidly exploring ways to engage in a more proactive way, not just reactively taking in what we're learning and listening. And so that's taking shape now without going too far down a rabbit hole. Organic content on Reddit is really what's fueling those LLM responses, as you can imagine. The LLMs want to tap into what people are actually experiencing and saying, but we believe that there's a hybrid approach to tapping into Reddit as far as being able to respect the environment that Reddit is. You don't just barge in, take over and kind of let yourselves into a house. You knock on the door more so. Also, what type of integration type work can we do with Reddit that does have that more organic feel, allows conversation to spark, and frankly, offers a more controlled environment as we learn into this space and as we, again, knock on the door and start to become a guest in that space.
Natalie Silverstein (21:29):
Okay, so you're thinking about LLMs as a new audience essentially, and then also thinking about all these different communities and moving the needle on culture even. I'm curious if there are any brands in the portfolio that you think are more either are already helping to kickstart cultural conversations or be really a part of cultural conversations on social or maybe are kind of on their way.
Marissa Solan (21:52):
In the walls of Helion, for us, there's a few obvious ones. So emergency, for instance, is just plain fun and they just get it. They are an early mover. They're a fast early mover in this space. They actually were our first brand a couple years ago now, I believe, to go 100% creator content in their paid social plans versus using, let's say, the cut down from the OLV and just adapting it, resizing it for social or another kind of brand produced piece of content, for instance. So they were the first to make that shift to 100% creator generated content, and it's paid off for them. They have one of the strongest ROIs in our building in that space. Another one is Benafiber, the Gut Girlies, Gut Talk. I believe Benafiber is still Haleon's fastest growing brand, at least in the US, and they've seen a thousand percent lifts.
(22:52):
It sounds kind of silly that you say it out loud, but again, this is just such an organic fit. And when you do, and emergency does this as well, when you really hand over creative license to the creators, the content just pops off the page, so to speak, in a way that it probably wouldn't otherwise. It's that self-fulfilling prophecy though. They not only live in spaces that like VMS for emergency and in supplements in a way for Benefiber too, and again, that gut talk, gut girly type space, those are primed for brands and that conversation to happen, but those brands have really seized the moment and taken advantage quickly and in smart ways. So it's kind of that flywheel effect is happening for them.
Natalie Silverstein (23:41):
I feel like the Fibermaxing is the new protein maxing, but to be tracking all that stuff and finding the right people to talk about.
Marissa Solan (23:47):
It's so funny to hear certain senior leaders use that language in very serious meetings and you're like, "You need fiber maxing."
Natalie Silverstein (23:55):
I think we should all be Fibermaxing from what I understand. So everybody get their benefiber for sure. So funny. Well, I think one thing that's interesting to see on social is these health trends that are also just often grounded in real science, but then they sort of go off the rails a little bit. And your content, you got to kind of reel it back in and really sit in truth and claims. I know we talked a little bit about FTC as well as the FDA side of things and just making sure you guys are in legal compliance. I'm sure that you're asking for creativity and things sometimes do go off the rails a little bit or off script. Are there any examples of creators that have gone totally off the rails in terms of claims that you've had to reel back in? Or in general, are there any funny anecdotes that you might have about that?
Marissa Solan (24:39):
It's almost the reverse. I'd love to get that content in where we say to ourselves, "Whoa, maybe they took it a little too far," because we truly are. We want to create content with these creators, with their voice, through the language, if you will, that they speak or that they know their audience will jump for. So I think we are getting to a place where our briefs are opening the door for bolder, potentially more outlandish self-expression. I don't know if we've gotten just yet something that's like, "Oh my goodness, we got to put the kibosh on this." But honestly, I want to get to that point because I'd rather tap into those creative juices and create content, create experiences for consumers that we can't make because we don't have that particular perspective or that particular personal experience that XYZ creator has.
Natalie Silverstein (25:39):
Yeah. You mentioned that there was a creator for Flonase who came up with some sort of music track. It sounds like Flonaze is kind of one of those brands that people feel strongly about. And I'm curious, is that one of the brands that has the most passionate community on social?
Marissa Solan (25:55):
Yeah, this is like a sleeper one. So Mikey Angelo, that was the creator. And if you look at his, that's his shtick is to create songs and he recaps, go check them out. But yes, Flonaze is the one that you wouldn't expect. You wouldn't expect to have a level of liveliness and culture first. But what we've learned is that Flonaze has a really kind of diehard fan base. I don't know if it's used externally, but we call them internally Flonatics. And the content that we see coming from creators who must be Flonatics, it runs a certain spectrum, right? Sure, there could be more run-of-the-mill type content that is lambing core messages and showing the product and have you. But what we've learned on Flonase is there's other two areas that are magic. One is UGC content, frankly, that we've seen, let's say on YouTube, of creators who are vigilant users of the brand and they're educating others on how to use, meaning what position to hold the product and how to spray and what angle and how much you're pressing, for instance.
(27:07):
So that's been really incredible. And to have, again, those voices being able to describe the instructions and demonstrate it, again, that's just not something that we probably could have made in the exact same way that drives views and relevance and education and understanding. We've been able to successfully tap into that UGC, whether it's requesting certain usage rights or bringing those creators on board as longer term partners, for instance. And then the other end of the spectrum, I'd say, is kind of like a space of absurdity. Again, these flownatics who, again, just bubble up ideas that are just seemingly, so that's not going to work, guys. When you see, let's say, the concept in words on a page, you're like, "Well, how is that going to work?" But then you see how the creator's vision just comes to life when they're actually shooting the content and editing it.
(28:02):
Really, some absurd, amazing stuff comes from those partners.
Natalie Silverstein (28:07):
Yeah, I love that. I mean, it seems like a really important insight from this conversation in general is that creators can often say what a brand can't or demonstrate aspect of a product that just a brand just isn't going to be as interesting in doing it. It's just not going to land. It's not going to hit the same way coming from -
Marissa Solan (28:23):
That's 100% something that, again, Helion is getting better at, I say, is that we can't just speak from the brand itself. We don't own our brands anymore. Consumers own the brands, they own the conversation, they own the visuals. So to relinquish that control, to relinquish that feeling of us having to create the perfect package of assets or partners has been another aspect of our transformation and handing over the keys to the car to creators who allow that, yes, third party endorsement. That's who drives the relevance and the reasons to believe and the discovery. We see those new search environments dramatically leaning into those and how they're speaking about brands and topics and health issues, and so we have to lean ever more into allowing those voices to speak on our behalf.
Natalie Silverstein (29:20):
Well, huge congrats on A, supporting that major shift within an organization and helping get people on board. I'm sure that's not simple to change that mindset across so many different brands and leadership across all the brands and really helping them understand the opportunity with creators in social. That's huge. And then again, building the system, make that possible. So very, very, very, very cool work.
Marissa Solan (29:41):
It's huge, huge, exciting challenge. Sometimes some days feels really daunting, right? The mountain that you're looking up at feels sometimes insurmountable. I'm not just saying this, it's been really fun and to be able to trailblaze within Haleon has been a great Truly.
Natalie Silverstein (30:01):
Amazing. Okay. So to close, I would love to get a hot take from you on something. I'm curious what your boldest prediction is for where the industry will be in five years, knowing how fast AI is shifting things, social is changing. Curious what you think is going to happen.
Marissa Solan (30:15):
I think that creators will become employees, and I'm not saying employees as creators. That I think is also probably not a trend. I wouldn't want to make it feel that it's going to go away. But yes, we see great success when you tap into your employees to be evangelists for your organization and be in front of the camera in that way. 100%, yes. But I'm more speaking about bringing creators in as an actual colleagues, staff, employees to help realize that end-to-end vision that I think creators can and should be playing where they are playing a role in the insights development, insights mining, translating those insights into spaces that R&D should be exploring, that innovation should be tackling. But then also the briefs that go into the big idea that's going to inform the marketing plan for the year or even an enduring campaign idea and through, again, the end-to-end.
(31:23):
I see that capability, that intelligence, that know-how being maybe something that you don't just tap into externally in an ad hoc way.
Natalie Silverstein (31:34):
I love that. I think I'm always looking for pieces of advice for young talent that I mentor, people that come to me or even folks coming out of school looking at staring down a career in a completely fast moving space. I think the idea that building skill in public communication just can't hurt you essentially at this point, having a deep knowledge of how different social platforms work and how to be effective communicators on those platforms I think is something that is becoming a more ubiquitous thing that folks are learning. And even universities are starting to build programs around becoming a creator. That's pretty interesting. Okay, last thing. Is there anything about creator marketing that you think should never change?
Marissa Solan (32:11):
I think humans still need to play a role in content ideation at the very least. It's hard for me to imagine a world where humans are completely absent from the content that we want to consume and learn from and entertain us. So I know that there will be, of course, the space where you're bringing on synthetic creators using AI for dozens of reasons, but I don't know, it's hard for me to imagine a space where human creators, especially those creators who have the really, really strong creative ingenuity that I think will have the edge.
Natalie Silverstein (33:01):
Love that last thought. Marissa, thank you so much for your time. It was really great to hear from you and reconnect. Really appreciate it.
Marissa Solan (33:08):
Thank you. Bye now.
Natalie Silverstein (33:15):
What Marissa's experience at Haleon makes clear is that giving creators more control doesn't mean brands have to give up rigor. In fact, the opposite may be true. The stronger the infrastructure behind the work, the briefs, the legal partnerships, the measurement, the systems, the more room there is for creators to actually be creative. And I think that's the bigger shift for marketers to pay attention to. Creator freedom isn't the absence of guardrails. It's building the right guardrails so you can confidently hand over the keys. That's what I'm carrying forward from this conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, follow and subscribe for more conversations with the leaders who are shaping creator marketing. You can also find us at collectivelyinc.com to learn more about our work. I'm Natalie Silverstein, and this is Collectively Verified. Thanks for listening.