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Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00:00:00 - 00:40:12
Jennifer
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of CEO and Executive Thought Leadership. I'm your host, Jennifer Kluge, and we have another wonderful executive with us today to share his story. Our very special guest joining us from Los Angeles, California is Sam Brenner. He is the founder and CEO of CRB workforce. Sam, launched in 2018 from his apartment. I can't wait to hear more about that and your 100% remote recruitment firm that specializes in finding top talent with a strong focus on ed tech, entertainment, travel and leisure, and consumer apparel.
00:40:15 - 00:43:23
Jennifer
It's a pleasure to have you on the program. Sam, welcome.
00:44:00 - 00:45:10
Sam
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:45:15 - 01:09:03
Jennifer
So let's let's talk about I love talking to founders of businesses. Every story is so unique. And it's either a bedroom, a basement or a garage. So in your situation it was an apartment. So this is really interesting about you, Sam, because you did not have a recruitment background. You were commercial real estate and had a strong sales background.
01:09:03 - 01:14:10
Jennifer
And then you started your own recruitment firm. So tell us about that journey. How did you get here?
01:14:13 - 01:45:06
Sam
Well, I'll, I'll save you the entire story. But like many recruiters who just get into the industry, you generally fall into it. And very similar kind of fell into it. But I from real estate, I spent about four and a half years at an agency kind of learning it. And then when I decided to finally start CRV, it really my general idea was I wanted to change how the industry operated.
01:45:06 - 02:07:19
Sam
I think in the past, staffing has this kind of negative connotation. Generally, it's like one step above used car salesman, and I felt really bad about that because I knew the work that I that I was doing personally was impactful for clients for, for candidates. And so I wanted to kind of change that dynamic. And so that's what I started doing in in my apartment.
02:07:23 - 02:33:03
Sam
And as just me, myself and, and I think in general, I focused on better experiences for the clients, for candidates. And then most important to me was a better experience for my staff, the recruiters. I think that's the people in the industry that have been marginalized the most. Which in turn, you know, that's how they treat their customers.
02:33:03 - 02:57:10
Sam
So that's that's really kind of how I started the agency. What I thought about. But but I think the biggest thing for me was like setting out and structuring our core values. That was like something I did on day one, and, and I'll just spit them out. But it's the power of attitude, feedback, freedom and responsibility. And pressure is a privilege.
02:57:10 - 03:06:04
Sam
And and those were like the four things that like to this day I bring it up, you know, almost. Yeah. You know, every week.
03:06:06 - 03:29:07
Jennifer
Yeah. Well, you know, I know a lot of recruiters and they're all dynamos. I mean, there's a tenacity there. There's an entrepreneurial spirit there. You embed that I, I love this pressure is a privilege. I always like to chat about that because sometimes we get caught up in the work or we get caught up in the stress or having to do something.
03:29:07 - 03:40:00
Jennifer
And I always like to say we get to and that pressure is a privilege. Tell us a little bit more why you made that one of your core attitudes. I guess you could say at your company.
03:40:02 - 04:13:04
Sam
Yeah, it's actually one of my favorite ones. It's I'm, I'm actually really pumped that you asked about it. So pressure is a privilege to me is like when you think about it and things get really tough and you know, maybe like your I'll just take it in in the context of closing deals, if you're in sales and, and you want to close deals, and let's say you go through a streak where you've lost four deals in a row, it's a classic place to where all sit that salesperson down and say, don't forget, the pressure is a privilege.
04:13:04 - 04:52:15
Sam
And and like all of this pressure of losing these deals, all of this pressure of not hitting your quota, all of that is a privilege. Like think about your peer who has no stress, hasn't lost any deals. Their life is pretty, you know, generic, but they have no pressure. And that means they were never in the game. And and so I think if if you as a sales person, if you as an owner or if you as anything, you know, any career, if you look at failure, success, pressure as a privilege, no matter what happens, you're in the game, you have the ball with the last second.
04:52:17 - 05:02:06
Sam
And and I think it's it's just like if you look at it in that context, it can really change how you view failure, how you view success.
05:02:06 - 05:29:07
Jennifer
So you were given the opportunity to fail, right? Yeah. And success. I like to say success comes from a series of failures, right? That's how you learn how you grow, right? 100%. So keeping in with this thought process, you're well known for your motto. The harder you work, the likelier you will get. Tell us more about that motto and how it fits into your success at your company.
05:29:09 - 05:31:08
Jennifer
And possibly even your culture.
05:31:13 - 06:00:18
Sam
Yeah, it's. I can't even remember who said it to me originally I was trying I was somebody asked me that a year or two ago, and I really spent some time trying to figure it out, but it was told to me when I was probably like 16, 17 and and it just stuck with me. So what's really funny about it is when people join my team, they join CRB and they hear it for the first time.
06:00:20 - 06:20:13
Sam
The thing I hear a lot is, well, I don't believe in luck. And like they say, I control my destiny. I don't believe in luck and and like a gent, genuinely, I kind of like that response because they don't get it yet, and it's an opportunity for me to kind of mold them into really understanding the, the intent of it.
06:20:13 - 06:36:23
Sam
And, and so I think, like relative to our culture, it's it's really about like if I like again, with pressure, it's if you're trying if you're not trying, you'll never have the chance. So, you know, again with us, I'm a big sports guy, as maybe you can see, but.
06:36:24 - 06:38:12
Jennifer
I can tell.
06:38:14 - 06:38:22
Sam
Right.
06:39:03 - 06:54:10
Jennifer
So those listening and that with the visual, Sam has a bunch of sports photos and more memorabilia behind him. So and there's an all there's football. I think I see a couple other sports back there.
06:54:12 - 07:17:06
Sam
That there's there's a couple of holing one balls that, you know, is very fortunate. I'll do my own there. Yeah. It's funny, I always forget that people do listen. I listen all the time. I when I'm listening to a podcast I'll, I they'll start describing what they're looking at. And so it is a good good reminder. So so sports analogy I'll just give it because I love sports.
07:17:06 - 07:40:05
Sam
But you know, as kids growing up playing sports, like we would be in our backyard or on the field just having fun and, and what we imagine is that we've got the ball with, you know, five seconds and we're down by one and the ball's in our hand or the bases are loaded in the bottom of the ninth for baseball.
07:40:05 - 08:00:15
Sam
Two outs. Right. Like like we envision those scenarios and and practicing for that, working hard, failing all of that gives you that one opportunity to hit the home run, hit the last second shot. Right. It may be luck. Right. And and that's what I tell these guys like. It may be luck that you hit it. It also may be fate.
08:00:15 - 08:10:14
Sam
It may be your hard work. But you know you have you have to work hard. And if you work hard, you will get lucky. And that's you know, that's ultimately.
08:10:14 - 08:46:24
Jennifer
Talk about that because because the term hard work, we're hearing a lot about this in the last six months. The term hard work is subjective. And what one generation might view as hard work, and another generation might view it as, oh, you're being inefficient or you're wasting your time. And then if you look at social media and as a leader and as a business owner and executive, you can possibly relate to this hard work is criticized so much in social media with some of our younger generation.
08:47:00 - 09:07:05
Jennifer
And when you talk, pressure is a privilege, and the harder you work, the luckier you get. I think there's a huge disconnect between what it takes to succeed and what people are told success requires. Can you expand on how you define hard work?
09:07:08 - 09:34:15
Sam
Yeah, that's a really good question. And so what I'd say is I would actually introduce our other core values freedom and responsibility. And so I think I think that as each generation kind of defines what hard work is differently, I think that it's important to trust people, to trust peers, colleagues, clients, that their definition of hard work is is right.
09:34:15 - 09:52:24
Sam
And and at the end of the day, if it's not right, they won't they won't be there for much longer. So yeah. So like I look at these social media influencers, right. Like do I think that's hard work like me personally. No. But they kill it, right? They make a ton of money. They work a very small amount.
09:52:24 - 10:20:05
Sam
They put out content and it works and it and and to them it's hard work and you know, so so when I look at freedom and responsibility, I say if if it works for you, do it right. Like don't take advantage of someone, but if it works for you, do it. And and so hard work I think is is purely defined on what you want and what you define as success.
10:20:07 - 10:31:08
Sam
And if it's if you're willing to put in the work to get the success and whatever that amount of work is to get the amount of success you want. I think it's her game.
10:31:10 - 10:57:24
Jennifer
Tell us more about market conditions right now. The talent pool, the economic factors related to the talent industry. Obviously, you're what I consider a leading indicator of what where the economy is going and into what the talent is asking for right now and what the workforce is asking for right now. Give us like a 32nd overview on the conditions of talent right now.
10:57:24 - 11:28:07
Sam
Yeah. Good question. So I think that I think this varies pretty significantly based on segment. So, you know, my my answer will be pretty specific to tech and marketing where we generally focus. So I think we still have a massive oversupply of candidates and under demand for jobs. And it's and it's generally kind of unique when you think about the overall market, because I think we have a a rise in unemployment in tech right now to about 6%.
11:28:07 - 11:53:10
Sam
We got down to under 4%. But we still added about 20,000 new jobs. And and the unique part to that is that AI and cyber kind of helped fill that void, drove a bunch of the growth. And, you know, from a marketing standpoint, a lot of the sales teams, customer acquisition kind of drill dwindled down. They focused heavily on customer retention.
11:53:12 - 12:15:20
Sam
So I you know, I don't I don't know what the future will be, but I think I think we're still kind of in this place of, yeah, trying to define what the market will be. The, the election concluding is, is good, you know regardless. But it's good that that's over. Crypto potentially comes back I don't know there's a lot of questions still.
12:15:22 - 12:20:12
Sam
But I think I think overall we're headed in a, in a in a strong place.
12:20:14 - 12:26:01
Jennifer
And to remind our listeners you're in California, are your clients in California as well?
12:26:04 - 12:33:14
Sam
We have a few based here, but but, the majority of our workforce and customers are across the US.
12:33:16 - 12:47:08
Jennifer
Okay. So so let me ask you, the Sam, you said I the word on the street is that AI is replacing tech jobs. Did you just say that that you actually saw that happen? Can you validate that?
12:47:10 - 13:20:13
Sam
I cannot validate that. I, I, I actually fundamentally do not think I will replace tech jobs. I think AI is just another tool that will support tech jobs. And with the conclusion of one industry, let's call it software engineering. Right? And maybe I will replace an element of software engineering. But with that conclusion of that segment, all of those people will move in to supporting AI.
13:20:13 - 13:33:22
Sam
And maybe that's like a network data center, right? Exactly. Those people will be really catered. So I don't I don't like AI is not going to robots aren't going to take over. Right, mate? Maybe, but not anytime soon.
13:33:24 - 13:59:17
Jennifer
Yeah. I'd like to shift gears for a second. Here you are 100% remote for you and your team, and many companies have considered that in the last 2 or 3 years. They tried it, they did the hybrid work a little bit. They did 100% remote, a little bit. A lot of downtown leaders are saying, please come back to work because we need the economy to to grow.
13:59:19 - 14:30:16
Jennifer
A lot of small businesses are finding it advantageous to get best talent by remaining hybrid or digital. Not many people are doing 100% remote successfully. So what is your secret sauce there, and is there anything you would have changed on your path to go 100% remote? Because I know the two things that people are talking about is collaboration, brainstorming in in teamwork and culture.
14:30:18 - 14:37:10
Jennifer
So, tell us more about that journey and, and what you might tweak or do differently if you were to do it over.
14:37:14 - 15:03:00
Sam
Well, I guess if I was to do it over, I'd sure wish Covid never happened. I would never have gone remote. So I think that the simple answer is it's it's it's been hard. And I genuinely wish we were all together. And if any of my team are listening, don't worry, we're not coming back to the office. But we are, you know, we're we're in about 30 different states at this point, so it's not even possible.
15:03:00 - 15:30:12
Sam
But but I think you you really keyed in on it specifically on like what the major issue with remote is. It's that collaboration. And then even like secondary to that or, or you know, another big issue is junior people. I think that's the part that really hurts my soul. Are all of these college kids graduating junior kids with low experience levels?
15:30:14 - 16:01:08
Sam
Those are the ones that get hit the hardest. They need to be next to somebody. They need to hear how someone who's been doing. That's how I learned, and I know our success and failure ratio of new employees is heavily, heavily determined on how much time we spend with that person. And it's a lot of work remote. You can't sit on a zoom call all day long, but you can sit next to them in an office all day long.
16:01:08 - 16:22:06
Sam
And so, you know, like what works for us? Like, why has it been successful? You know, number one, it's like I and my entire management team have to be open book, and I expect all of our employees to be. So, you know, that's that's that element of freedom, responsibility. So they have to protect that. We trust them. They trust us.
16:22:08 - 16:48:12
Sam
There's never any questioning what are you doing? How come you're you know, zoom is not green. None of that. We just expect you to get the job done to reach out for help. And and you know, really what we kind of push in that is we ask them to always push their way in. Don't wait to be pulled in and and if they don't, if they don't adopt that they struggle.
16:48:12 - 17:18:07
Sam
And so we we have to consistently remind them and keep them engaged. But it's it really is tough. Like I don't I hope remote in general kind of goes away in the next ten years. Like I don't think it will. I think it'll shift back to what it used to be, but it's it's a unique opportunity to to get people in very small markets and have a very dynamic team, a diverse team.
17:18:09 - 17:24:01
Sam
And so, you know, for us it's here to stay. But but I don't I don't know, it's it's hard and and you really have.
17:24:03 - 17:48:09
Jennifer
To lead in remote work to your point. Very hard. Hard to inspire is hard to train. It's hard to mentor. It's hard to communicate the same message. Yeah, yeah, but but I like the the take away for everyone I want. I hope people heard this is in a hybrid or in remote work. Encouraging team to push in in in.
17:48:09 - 18:12:02
Jennifer
To your point, young people might not know how to push in. They don't know that they should be loud and they should be aggressive, especially in a hybrid environment, so that the leaders and or supervisors hear them and hear their thoughts and hear, hear their their strategy. Right. Get the feedback. So I love that. Push your way in.
18:12:03 - 18:16:04
Jennifer
I might steal that into one of our our core beliefs.
18:16:06 - 18:18:13
Sam
Yeah. Push push your way and don't wait to.
18:18:13 - 18:21:03
Jennifer
Push your way in and don't wait.
18:21:05 - 18:47:13
Sam
Yeah, yeah. And your your point was really spot on. What I, what I tell these guys is, is manage up. And it's kind of a unique approach but but manage me right. Like I obviously all manage the team that my directors will manage their reports. But but like I expect the lowest the the most junior person to manage their boss manage up.
18:47:15 - 19:05:02
Sam
And it's just that concept of push your way in. Like do you need help? Like set that meeting right. Don't sit there and wait. Like manage them. You need their time. They're busy. Get time. And it's not that you know it's not bad. Like you say, you need to be aggressive and like that. Some people think, oh, aggressive.
19:05:02 - 19:06:24
Sam
But like that's real.
19:06:24 - 19:08:19
Jennifer
You need what it takes.
19:08:21 - 19:12:24
Sam
Yeah. It's what it takes. Like your success is your success.
19:12:24 - 19:33:03
Jennifer
So keeping in line with that, let's say you had a roomful of future entrepreneurs. You started your own business. It's it's it's takes a lot of grit in the industry that you're in. What advice would you give a roomful of young entrepreneurs embarking on a on their own business?
19:33:03 - 19:59:13
Sam
Young entrepreneurs? I think number one advice I this may be bad advice, but I think my number one advice would be to slow down. I think a lot of young entrepreneurs, this kind of generation that's coming out of school the last couple of years, I think they want to move really, really fast and and some will be able to, but the large majority won't.
19:59:13 - 20:27:21
Sam
And so I think if I'm giving advice to a group of people, I'd say slow down to make sure you got a job first. Make sure you learn from somebody and that that may only take you a year, two years, but you don't know anything. And you'll find that even 20 years in, you still don't know anything. And so just having a couple years opportunity to see somebody else doing it, learning it will give you a massive leg up.
20:27:21 - 20:48:19
Sam
So, so I think number one, I'd say slow down and then you know, after let's say they've done that right and they're ready to go. I'd say like like I'm really about hype. Like I think there's some tangible things I would give advice, but I'd say, you know, relentlessly believe in yourself and, and your product like you have to.
20:48:19 - 21:02:06
Sam
If you don't, nobody else will. So relentlessly believe in yourself and your product or service. Ask a lot of questions. Listen a lot more than you talk. I know I've done a lot of talking today, so.
21:02:11 - 21:04:04
Jennifer
That's what an interview is, by the way.
21:04:04 - 21:32:05
Sam
Yeah, yeah. And then I think like the one of the most important things that I've done that I've decided to do a handful of years ago that somebody gave me this advice was just be decisive. You may make a lot of mistakes. I've made mistakes. You're you're probably going to fail. I failed, but just be decisive. Make a decision based on good information and trust that if you work hard, you're going to get lucky.
21:32:07 - 21:35:02
Sam
So. So just pull the trigger and try it.
21:35:04 - 21:38:20
Jennifer
Yeah. And I think that comes from insecurity, right?
21:39:23 - 21:44:21
Jennifer
It's so that goes hand-in-hand with relentlessly believe in yourself.
21:44:23 - 21:45:24
Sam
Yeah. Yeah.
21:45:24 - 22:10:24
Jennifer
All right. So switching gears. So here's the thing. People see a CEO or a founder of a company doing so well and they think, oh, successful, to use your words. Oh, they must have been lucky. No. Yeah. But you know, the sometimes the boss is put on a pedestal that they shouldn't be on, and it creates some assumptions about what it takes and who they are.
22:10:24 - 22:33:06
Jennifer
So we like to demystify the seed of a CEO and focus on you as a human, and to learn a little bit more about you and what your style is. So, well, this is one of my favorite questions to ask. What is your daily ritual? Do you have daily rituals? Do you do it or you go for it?
22:33:09 - 22:52:08
Sam
Well, I'm go for it, but I've I definitely have some rituals. I mean, I hit the gym every single day. I think that it's really important. I wake up at about 430 every day. No alarm just kind of happens. I it's not I don't recommend it, but just happen. But I think like my favorite ritual is like is I write everything down.
22:52:10 - 23:10:14
Sam
Any idea that I have, I just write it down. Sometimes I'll wake up at 1 or 2 in the morning, out of a dream or something with an idea about work, like it's kind of crazy, but I just write it down, go back to sleep, and and I think that's really it's something that I love doing. And then I look at it and most of the time I delete them.
23:10:16 - 23:21:21
Sam
I have like a task app or something. It's on my phone. I just type it in. Sometimes I don't even know what it means. But some of the best ideas have come from, you know, just writing everything down.
23:22:00 - 23:26:22
Jennifer
All right. Very cool, very cool. What decision have you made that was a game changer.
23:26:23 - 23:47:03
Sam
What decision? So there's been a lot that have been game changers, but I would say I would say my like this may be kind of a corny answer, but I think people, the people I've hired and the people I fired have been the biggest game changer. I think that it's so important to surround yourself with the right people.
23:47:03 - 24:09:11
Sam
I think somebody said this, quote a long time ago where it's like, show me your friends and I'll show you the person something like that. And and like, that's absolutely been a game changer when I'm just, like, fully committed to having the right people around me. And I've been incredibly lucky to have the right people. But I don't know, it might be a cop out answer.
24:09:11 - 24:10:02
Sam
But you.
24:10:02 - 24:21:02
Jennifer
Know what? And that's in life, too. It's not just work. Having the right people in your life and having the courage to push the bad ones out no matter who they are, right?
24:21:04 - 24:46:14
Sam
Most of the time they're relieved or not. Well, I don't, I don't know, I, I think maybe only a few times and I've hired and fired a lot of people only a few times has it been very contentious in that room. And 90% of the time they've like kind of taken a deep breath and, and said thanks. Like they needed that.
24:46:16 - 24:49:12
Sam
Yeah. You know. Yeah. Really.
24:49:14 - 24:54:12
Jennifer
Do you have any hobbies? I know you said sports, any hobbies or hidden talents.
24:54:12 - 25:14:13
Sam
I don't know, I, I play a lot of sports. I play a lot of golf. Let's see, I hit it. Oh, this is actually interesting. I'm pretty good with computers, which is hilarious. And I always get my parents a really hard time because they didn't push me into computer science. Like, like in theory, I could have been Mark Zuckerberg.
25:14:15 - 25:28:00
Sam
Yeah, right, I know. Right? Yeah, I did like, I can, I can almost code. I'm a pretty darn good like tier three helpdesk support agent. Like like so you know, maybe that's a hidden talent. I don't I don't know.
25:28:02 - 25:29:05
Jennifer
That sounds great.
25:29:10 - 25:30:19
Sam
That's great.
25:30:21 - 25:45:12
Jennifer
Yeah. What's your go to when you're. You said pressure is a privilege. What's your go to for your wellness? You said you worked out. But how do you relieve stress outside of, you know, going to the gym every day? I.
25:45:14 - 25:48:18
Sam
I don't know, I think I'm still trying to figure it out.
25:48:18 - 25:53:02
Jennifer
I stress you need to I think you're. Yeah. I think your hard.
25:53:04 - 26:22:23
Sam
It's it's never ending. But you know, look, if we're not stressed, we're not doing anything meaningful. So you know, take it. It's it's part of the game and workout eat healthy, have friends. Those are all really important to help kind of minimize that. And then, you know, I try to shut it down at the end of the day, like for a period of time, like like between like 6 p.m. and like 6:02 p.m., you know, like.
26:23:00 - 26:23:11
Jennifer
Yeah.
26:23:13 - 26:28:02
Sam
I mean, you just try to turn it off for a minute and maybe it helps.
26:28:03 - 26:34:20
Jennifer
That's great. Yeah. Who who has left a lasting impression on you as a human?
26:34:23 - 26:59:02
Sam
Interesting. So I think and this is really corny, you can tell I'm a. Yeah. I've obviously never met this guy. I've seen him in person a few times. He won't recognize me because I was in the crowd. But Tiger Woods is like the most influential person that has, like, impacted me. I just like I love his ability to be clutch.
26:59:04 - 27:29:00
Sam
Like when when things are just so important, he just gets it done. And back in like college when he was at his peak, like me, my buddies and I coined this like term, that clutch gene. Like, you either have it or you don't. And and like in those moments of needing to be decisive, I just remember clutch gene and it's really corny, but like, I'll remember clutch Gene, Sam and I just make that decision and and so I think Tiger's he's a man.
27:29:00 - 27:30:17
Sam
Like I hope he wins again.
27:30:17 - 27:37:22
Jennifer
But I need to. I bet there was a lot of hard work to making it look that easy, right?
27:38:03 - 27:40:02
Sam
Oh yeah. You see him.
27:40:02 - 28:09:21
Jennifer
For practice to be under pressure I one quick story. My my kids were little and they had a piano recital and my son was in a piano recital on this dog came up out of nowhere and messed up his recital. Me kind of panicked a little bit. So after that we practiced for emergencies or spontaneity or or, okay, you're doing your recital and we're throwing things at you so that I could handle whatever came at you.
28:10:02 - 28:17:01
Jennifer
So that's that's a lesson there too, is, you know, that clutch gene is training for it.
28:17:03 - 28:22:17
Sam
100%. It's you're you're so spot on. It's a muscle. You got to work it out through muscle.
28:22:17 - 28:48:01
Jennifer
It's a muscle. Well, it's been wonderful having you on the program, Sam. Thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for your insight. There are so many takeaways between your culture and your beliefs. And how would advice you give to young people and, go slower, push your way in, manage up, be decisive. Some really good stuff here. No wonder you're a success.
28:48:03 - 28:52:17
Sam
Well, it's a day to day to day. I really appreciate the kind words, Jennifer.
28:52:20 - 28:58:19
Jennifer
Well, keep shining bright and thanks everyone. We'll see you on the next program. Thanks, Sam.