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Welcome to "The Activate Change Podcast," where transformation is just a conversation away. Join Gabrielli LaChiara, renowned healer and creator of the LaChiara Method, as she guides individuals through powerful healing sessions. Alongside her, Chloë Faith Urban breaks down the frameworks and tools Gabrielli uses to bring deeper understanding to the profound process of healing. The episodes that are healing sessions offer an intimate front-row seat to authentic, raw, and real personal breakthroughs, spiritual healing, and emotional support, allowing you to see yourself in the journeys of others. Experience the power and magic of the LaChiara Method, learn practical tools for self-growth, and unlock your potential to activate change in your own life.
With the LaChiara Method’s deep commitment to collaboration and perpetual learning, some episodes will highlight conversations with other thought leaders, healers, and activists on the path to bringing healing, liberation and true equality to the world.
Whether you're seeking healing, inspiration, or a deeper understanding of yourself, this podcast is your gateway to a more rooted, resilient and radiant YOU.
To experience or learn more about the method go to: https://lachiaramethod.com
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We hope these tools bring you as much support as they brought to our lives. Now let's get on with the show.
Alternate Introduction For Variation (01:13)
Welcome to the Activate Change podcast where transformation is just a conversation away. Each episode offers an intimate front row seat to an authentic and unscripted personal healing session with renowned healer and creator of the LaChiara Method, Gabrielli LaChiara. Our incredibly generous and courageous guests.
explore their genuine struggles, longings, and deepest desires in these sessions. And we, as listeners, have the honor and privilege to witness their sacred and profound healing journeys. As you listen, we invite you to receive as well.
Feeling into where the healing and insights that transpire might spark transformation in your own life. And stay tuned until the end because I, Chloe Faith Urban, will discuss the session and share a skill or framework that Gabrielli used, which you can apply to your own personal healing. This podcast does contain adult language and content. So if you have little ones around you,
you may want to use headphones.
Chloe's Introduction Mell (02:37)
In this episode, Gabriele has a session with Mel, an almost empty nester, unsure about her next phase in life. Having an abusive and gaslighting mother, she struggles to trust herself and lives in constant fear that she's in trouble or something bad is right around the corner. Listen as they explore this deep trauma and continue to listen to her soul's guidance. Mel has extensive experience with the work
and has been in training for over 15 years. She is a certified Lakiara Method Radical Life Coach. At the end of the episode, I speak about identities, how and why they're created, and how to begin to untether from their grip on your life. Let's dive in.
Gabrielli LaChiara (03:29)
hi. Welcome to your session. I'm gonna take that minute I like to take and just land. Good, and you can land however you need to. I'm gonna bring my focus and attention in.
Mell (03:28)
real, hi.
Thank you. Yeah, sure.
Gabrielli LaChiara (03:46)
honoring and really like invoking at this time is for you.
And that I get to keep our space as clear as possible to show up for whatever you might need in this journey today and activate change and generate healing.
Mell (04:11)
Hmm.
Gabrielli LaChiara (04:12)
Yes, I'm really curious about how I can help. I know you reached out saying things have been wonky and hard.
Mell (04:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, I know. it feels just like a repetitive story that I keep having over and over again. And I was trying to get to the meat of it. And I think the reason I reached out, yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm kind of back here again, feeling like, what am I doing here? I have no purpose. I'm in a waiting place. But at the same time, it's like I'm getting...
Gabrielli LaChiara (04:31)
Mm -hmm.
Mell (04:48)
And it's hard to know what's mine and what's not. Like, it's funny to see where I'm getting triggered by certain people in my life, but also noticing that that part mirrors something in me, you know? And I had reached out, think, to Chloe and to Blaze, just kind of working. Like, it feels like every time I decide, I'm going to, do a push in my coaching, like the other coaching program that I had.
I had paid a lot of money for it. I had kind of let it slide. was like, I should just finish that. So it was something I could, you know, and so I would say to Blaze, think, or Chloe, was like, I hadn't even talked to anybody outside. It was just in my head. I was like, I should just do that. And I listened to one of the recordings. And then it was like, I went into like a complete panic attack and started having all this like negative self -talk. so I said, it was interesting that it wasn't.
Gabrielli LaChiara (05:34)
Mm.
Mell (05:38)
perpetuated by anybody else. So I really have been trying to process it myself. it's like, feel like it really comes down to, like Blaze and I did a session on self -esteem, but I really feel like it comes down to this fear of like getting in trouble, you know? And it's preventing me from really doing anything because it's like, so I was gonna say, so the other kind of side thing is that I'm really feeling really panicked about money. And so then the other side of me says, we'll just go get a part -time job to bring in some money while the coaching, until the coaching.
Gabrielli LaChiara (05:51)
Mmm.
Mell (06:07)
gets going. But even that, I'm like, I'm afraid to go on an interview. I'm afraid, like, I just feel like I'm so afraid. Like, I was talking to Scott about it. said that like, it's sort like a real fear that I have that at any moment, someone's just going to turn on me and just lose their shit. And realizing how that's showing up in so many different ways.
Gabrielli LaChiara (06:21)
Mm. Mm.
And that feels so, there's the teasing of, I really hear your name to the word punishment and this kind of sense of like, I'm going to get punished. I'm going to get in trouble. That's how I heard it. Yeah. Which feels different that I'm just going to get rejected. Like, and I, yeah.
Mell (06:34)
Hmm. Yes. Well, yes get in trouble. Yeah. Yeah, I thought I'm get in trouble No, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, but and it feels like even like with clients like I feel like I Don't know it kind of all doves in there about getting in trouble and not and then that it kind of goes into the like not doing it Right not doing it perfectly, but I think the end fear is that at some point. It's just gonna blow up, you know
Gabrielli LaChiara (06:49)
Mm
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mell (07:01)
And I think we've talked about that before, even like with me and Scott, you being married so many years, it's like, it's gotten a little bit better, but yeah, there's always been this fear that like at some point, even though we're married 25 years, he's gonna lose his shit and just get sick of me and like explode, you know? And so that even then with him, I noticed just keeping my distance a little bit. But I'm just noticing it coming more and more to the surface and it's just, yeah, so it kind of flows in where now like I'm just kind of like here and it's like the kids are now off at school. I don't really have anything quote unquote to do.
Gabrielli LaChiara (07:20)
Mm
Mell (07:31)
And it was interesting with my brother being here. It was really like in the focus, like every day he's like, so what are you doing today? What are you doing today? And I'm like, what are we doing today? And it's like, and so, and just kind of looking at where I'm just like stuck. Yeah. Yeah, sure.
Gabrielli LaChiara (07:45)
Right, right. Okay, let's go there. Yeah. Let's go into
I don't know if we say I'm afraid of getting in trouble or I will get in trouble, like more as a conviction. I know it's coming or like I'm wondering what the sentence would be that captures like that convicted almost more phobic dynamic that's already just, you already know it's gonna happen. You're not saying to me, I'm afraid. I mean, you're calling it fear, but you're more like.
Mell (08:02)
Mmm.
Right.
Right. Right.
Right, I'm saying I'm afraid I'm gonna get in trouble, but it's like, yeah, I know what's gonna happen.
Gabrielli LaChiara (08:23)
You have it in your mind that it's gonna happen and you're afraid of when it's gonna happen, not like, right? Yeah.
Mell (08:26)
yeah. right. that's more the, and I think that's the thing. So now, God, now that we're talking about this, it's so funny. So that's what I used to do with my mother. I would almost instigate her to yell at me instead of the waiting of like, the waiting for it to happen would drive me so much anxiety that I would almost push her to yell at me because then it was like, okay, good, it's finally happened. I don't have to be like waiting on eggshells.
Gabrielli LaChiara (08:37)
Mm.
Mm -hmm. -hmm.
Mm -hmm. And this.
Right after I kept hearing the eggshells. I'm like the walking on eggshells and I feel like that's exactly what you're doing here is walking on these internal eggshells that are like, okay, I'm walking on eggshells. I know it's going to blow up. I don't exactly know how or what's going to make it happen. And in this case, it sounds like instead of fighting like the fight mode with her to instigate her and trigger her feels like you're in the other mode, which is the flight mode. So I'll just like, I'll hide. I'll stay back.
Mell (08:57)
Yeah.
right.
Right. Well, you know what's interesting? I actually just kind of blew up this little kind of friendship that I was having with some of the people from the music group. Because they kept kind of leaving me out. And I kind of just let it go, let it go, let it go. And finally this weekend I was like, I'm unfriending both of you. I don't want to be friends with anyone. And I just blew the whole thing up. And they were like, what happened? And I was like, I'm sick of being left out. I'm sick of you guys doing this. And they were both like, what?
Gabrielli LaChiara (09:31)
Mm -hmm.
Mell (09:44)
And it was like, and it made me feel good in a way, but it's like, it's like that. Yeah. So it's almost like when it's this weird, I have such a hard time with relationships and not knowing them when there's this like weird thing going on. finally am like, I can't take it anymore. I just have to like end it, you know? And so that's kind of interesting. It's almost like, yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, it was almost like, yeah, I needed it to happen somewhere. It's almost like,
Gabrielli LaChiara (09:45)
Wow.
Mm
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Right, and maybe picked a safe place to do it. Right.
Mell (10:12)
I guess I was kind of like yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's kind of a weird thing to do Yeah
Gabrielli LaChiara (10:17)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Or, I mean, clearly, this is interesting to me because the way I'm hearing it, and I know we've talked a lot about, like, our primal brains in the work because I've known you for long time, but there's something about, we keep thinking about our autonomic nervous systems and our safety mechanisms and our survival brain and the things that we do, like, breathe. You know, we breathe without thinking about it. We also do things like we run if we see danger or assess danger without thinking about it.
Mell (10:44)
Hmm
Gabrielli LaChiara (10:47)
with a lot of conditioning that happens without thinking about it. And it's interesting because you're thinking about the conditioning, but the conditioning is still happening. It's like, I'm still freezing or going into flight and not making the work happen because of whatever this conditioning has created, as well as you're fighting sometimes and blowing something up that maybe is a safe place to blow it up with the friends or whatever. But that feels like conditioning more than it feels like you. And I almost want to like...
Mell (11:13)
Mmm.
Gabrielli LaChiara (11:14)
It's like, want to reach in and be like, okay, wait, we need to find Mel. That's like not, there's your body and who you are and the conditioning it has. And then there's you, as in your consciousness, your essence, your intentions, you're like, where are you? And it feels like your body starts to really win. The conditioning takes over and becomes part of the identity, right? So like there's something in there that I'm feeling.
Mell (11:18)
Right.
Right. Right. Yep.
Right.
Blaise and I had the same exact conversation. So the thing that we brought up was this thing where I would be rejected just for being me. I think I had texted you about, and that the being me was like this, I kept using the word hyperactive, that I was like bubbly and hyperactive. she was, and I was, again, I said, is that, it came out that I was like, I felt like I'm getting shivers as I'm talking about this. my God.
Gabrielli LaChiara (11:47)
Mm
Good, good, good.
Mell (12:02)
that I don't know what's me. And actually, as we were going through the discovery process, I said something about it being a trauma response or like a way to protect myself. And I do notice in my therapist brought that up a lot that when we start talking about something, I start laughing. And so it is this interesting thing of like when people see me, they're like, you're so joyful and so happy. But it's like, I also use that as a way to like, yeah, deflect this hyperactive. like, yeah, and then more, so I've been thinking about
Gabrielli LaChiara (12:10)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Yeah, yeah.
It's actually a good use of hyper energy. So if you have a lot of energy, it's a better place to put it than being mean or judgmental or standing there doing even what your mom did, which is acting out on people. So I can see where that is self -protection at work. And maybe at this point, even part of an unconscious program that just kicks in for your survival, that makes a lot of sense to me.
Mell (12:34)
Great.
Great.
Right.
Yep.
Right, right. then, and then it was interesting, though, to then to think about like, well, wait a minute, who am I then? You know, and I was trying to go back in my mind and think about like who I was as a kid and all I could, yeah, remember, was running around and jumping around and doing all this stuff. And I think because I realized that there was like this nervous energy in the house with my parents fighting that then I would kind of just start to spin out of control probably because I was feeding off their energy. But now I've been doing it so long that it's almost like I almost don't even know who I am.
Gabrielli LaChiara (12:59)
Mm -hmm.
Mm.
Mell (13:22)
You know? Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (13:22)
Right, right. Well, you have somehow merged as many of us do. You've merged the conditioning with the identity and then with like your you -ness, you know, and you're not, it sounds like you're at a pivotal moment of, and it's a beautiful conversation that we're having, because I feel like, it is maybe time to say, who am I outside of that, inside and outside of the conditioning, who else am I? Because there's that conditioning that's going to happen. We know it's loud. We know it happens. You know when.
Mell (13:32)
Yeah, right.
Right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (13:52)
relatively predictable, sometimes it's not, but mostly, right? And that there is other parts of you that we're not getting to and that this part has become so prevalent and so loud that we're missing out on all the other parts of Mariela and all the other parts of Mel that have probably always existed that aren't getting airtime.
Mell (14:07)
Great.
And I feel like the other times when I'm home alone, that feels more like a depressive energy. So I feel like, again, with the either or that we've talked about, it's like, don't know where the middle is. It's like, I'm either depressed or I'm really hyper. Right, right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (14:16)
Mm
Right, right, right. Yeah, which could be anxious, right? And do you know, did your mother have a, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but like, did your mother have a formal diagnosis? Do you know if she was ever like, you don't know, yeah.
Mell (14:31)
Yeah.
No, no. Yeah, No, no, no. She never would ever, she never talked to a therapist or a psychiatrist or anything. Her only diagnosis was more like a thyroid diagnosis. But yeah, never ever. I don't think anybody in my mom's family ever has gone to a therapist.
Gabrielli LaChiara (14:44)
Mm
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
And you'd qualify her mainly as abusive? Is that the primary energy of her? Did she also have ups and downs? Did she get manicky, kind of intense and then depressed? Do you know if there were other?
Mell (14:57)
Yeah!
well, she would get, I don't remember ever really seeing her depressed. She was just like an intense driven person. And so mostly was at that level of like either really angry or really like cleaning the house obsessively, like cleaning the yard obsessively, working. I never really saw her like ever relax or just she would sit and read sometimes, but I never saw that depressive sad side. It was mostly just like, really driven.
Gabrielli LaChiara (15:09)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Driven, right. Right, right. So whether that was like an agitated depression or not, we don't know, but it clearly, clearly her own. Yeah, okay, good. So let's dive into the who am I piece, you know, because I think if we even could begin to remember and shake up and enliven some of the energies of who you are.
Mell (15:30)
and really angry, yeah.
Right. Right. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Oof. Okay.
Gabrielli LaChiara (15:53)
that would help to offset like, okay, the conditioning is fucking loud. And, you know, can I share something that I know about your world? When you have kids at this age that are transitioning, you know, out of high school, into college, maybe not into college, maybe trying to live their lives and they have their own, you know, share of intensity that they're struggling with, I think it's one of the harder times to find ourselves because you've spent, you know, you're not quite an empty nest, but you're heading towards an empty nest, but maybe you're not an empty nest.
Mell (15:53)
Yeah.
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (16:22)
And you have adult children, young adult children who are finding their own way, who do or don't need you in the same way. Like all of the things that you did that were good qualities in you and your mothering. And I saw a lot of them, like really part of your identity that lit up in such a beautiful way was how you showed up in their world. And I can also see where that's not getting airtime in the same way.
Mell (16:22)
Mm -hmm.
yeah.
Right, right. They don't need me. Right. They don't need me in that same way anymore. And it's like, yeah, it's like I did get some I did get some joy out of taking care of them and managing them. And, you know, and that's the other thing. Right. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (16:50)
Mm -hmm. Being at their events that they did or seeing them, you know, even helping them when they needed help or having them let you help them and like all those things that were going on. So I think what we're doing here feels that you hit the same, you what I call that proverbial glass wall, you know, that you hit the same cap isn't surprising to me and that you're at a major transition in life where, you know, one whole version of who you've been that has been successful, that'll still be there and it'll change shape and stuff, but it's changing shape and that there's this
Mell (16:59)
Yep.
Gabrielli LaChiara (17:20)
vacancy, know, like an emptiness in terms of, who are you now? You know, without that being the primary focus.
Mell (17:21)
Right, right, right. And I think other people have a job to go to. And I think that's the thing is that, and that was my job, you know? And so that now that it's really just, yeah, like kind of being like, well, what am I doing? You know? And it's not like other people like maybe really love being homemakers. And you know, I don't, I don't want to cook. I don't want to clean. I don't want to like decorate the house. Like that's not me. And so it's kind of.
Gabrielli LaChiara (17:30)
Mm
All right.
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Mell (17:50)
feeling like, where's, and it's different helping other people than helping your children because I feel like there's a pressure there of doing it right. And if you're gonna get paid, it's like a whole other thing versus like helping your kids, you know? And so.
Gabrielli LaChiara (17:53)
Or am I?
Interesting. Do you think you have the same overlay with the children of the anticipation of them? Like, yeah. Yeah.
Mell (18:12)
blowing up Jade all the time. I'm so afraid if I say anything that they're going to yell at me. And same with River. River, same thing. I feel, yeah, I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells with both of them. Yep. Yeah. Yep.
Gabrielli LaChiara (18:23)
Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting that was getting in a way, it's this is a kind of funny way to say it. But because that was such a deep part of the conditioning, it was also getting a lot of air time when they're around more. And that's not getting any air time. So now you're going to be in a little bit of the frozen pause of like, well, if not there, where where is it going to happen? And you were getting almost like the background noise of that always happening, which means it's keeping all that conditioning active. Like this is what to expect in life. And this is how life rolls. And this is what people do. And right.
Mell (18:34)
Right, right, right.
Right, right.
Right. Yeah. And yeah, and also like with the kids too, if you think about that's kind of a funny thing because when they're little, they're not that they're yelling at you, but they're crying a lot. They fall, they cry. So it's almost like that part of it was getting that need was getting met. Right. Right. Right. Right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (19:00)
Yeah.
Totally. And also they're unpredictable. mean, there aren't, at least my children were unpredictable. Like we could be going along just fine. And then two seconds later, they're crying about the cup being the wrong color. I'm like, wait a minute, that cup was fine a minute ago. It's got all the same water in it, but now you don't like the cup anymore and you're going to have a 20 minute tantrum. know, like there's an unpredictable nature to children that, in some ways you're good at, right? And in some ways we can say, there's
Mell (19:13)
Right.
Yep.
Right.
Yep.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (19:31)
If we were to pull the soul speak out of all of that, we could say, well, maybe there's something in there that's amazing for you in terms of being able to be part of people's lives and ride waves. Not that people should be acting out on you, but somebody in a session, for example, like I'm having an emotional wave, like, well, you know what to do when people have unexpected emotional waves, how to show up. Like maybe there's a skillset we're refining and pulling through you to say, wow.
Mell (19:49)
Right, yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (19:54)
If you know this world so well, can you help other people manage their own internal ups and downs and the intensities that they might go through? Not aimed at you, right? And so there's a piece, like, I want to look at all the things you've learned, their coping skills, but they're also soul speaks, right? You were triggered by the things you were triggered for, your family members are triggered by different things. You developed coping skills that are yours, everybody else developed their own. Some of those will be the same, some of those will be different.
Mell (20:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mmm.
Gabrielli LaChiara (20:22)
You're heightened about certain qualities and not about others. So if we were to say all the things that you, if we were to imagine and pretend that all the things that trigger you and all the things that are in your conditioning and all the things that have been hard or that you anticipate as being hard are also part inside those same things is a pulse for your essence, for who you are, for your soul. There's something your soul is saying, there's a reason these things feel so intense to me. Could we go there?
Mell (20:43)
Mmm.
Mmm Sure, yeah, and I was listening to some of the other questions you asked another person about that and I was like trying to do it and it's hard for me to do it myself because my My brain talk gets yeah loud So yeah, okay Okay, cool
Gabrielli LaChiara (20:59)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Mm -hmm. So let's do it. Let's try it together. Yeah. Let's dive in. So take a minute and, you know, land yourself however you need to be in you. And we're really intentionally bringing this energy in of preparing for the blowups or the intensities or the punishments or the like anger coming back at you, the abusiveness even coming your way.
Mell (21:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (21:25)
And we're saying everything, Mary Ellen, that you've done to cope, all the ways you fight back, all the ways you sabotage, all the ways you implode, go into depression, everything about that is still you. And that though it's conditioning, deep inside that conditioning is also absolutely every reason you exist, things that are important to you, things that you value, things that are repulsive to you.
and so.
as is for all of us.
So who, see, let me go here.
Well, first tell me where do you feel that? Like if I tell you all that and I say, if Mel, what if we just imagined that all that stuff you did to cope, the survival skills, the conditioning, all the things that inside even those things are everything that's important to you about being alive. The reason you exist, what you want, what you hope for, what you long for, what you're upset about is all here. How does that land in your body?
Mell (22:32)
Well, it's a combination of just like this pit right here, right there. But also then it's so hard for my brain to not be like, you know, trying to make sense of it. It's hard to really just release. Right. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (22:36)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Great. So let's say everything that your brain does, all the ways your brain might feel, whatever you call that, hyper or fast or distracting, it's also part of it. We're not taking it out of the picture. We love this about you. So we're going to include the speediness of the brain and the running mental habits and the thoughts and the things that we're trying to make sense of, figure it out and fix it and do all the things. They're just part of all the conditioning. And even in that cycle is you.
Mell (22:57)
You
Gabrielli LaChiara (23:12)
And we're going to invoke and can't proclaim and pronounce that your beingness is so much bigger than the body. It's infinite. It doesn't matter how big our shapes are, we're infinite as beings. And in that being is your soul speak and every reason you're here and you exist. And that this body is just a template, a barometer for sharing with you who you are, why you're here, what's important to you, what you care about.
What do you fucking hate about being alive? All of
And let's take your mind's eye if you can, if it works for you, and travel it down, down, down, down, down, down. Like, I want you to go to like your sacrum, but the inside part of your sacrum. So that's like the lower part of your back heading towards your roots. And right there. What's there? Anything. Doesn't have to be logical.
Mell (24:15)
It was funny, the word just came to us, nothing. When I'm trying to put my minds out there, it looks like a black cavern.
Gabrielli LaChiara (24:18)
Good.
Okay, so let's stay there.
Mell (24:26)
And almost like I'm like a little, I look like a little white light in the big black cavern.
When you say go down, down, down, down, I'm like, woo, going down.
Gabrielli LaChiara (24:38)
It's interesting to have so much heat. My whole, my body just lit up with so much heat. So let's stay there. Is that, that's usually a sign. So feeling that you are this tiny little light in the middle of this black empty cavern. And there you are. Are you suspended? Are you dropping? Are you, what are you doing?
Mell (24:44)
Okay.
Yeah, I was kind of like, I was kind of dropping, then I took my attention away from it. yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (25:02)
Mm
go back in.
So you're there, hold you in here too. And this little bit of you is in the middle of this huge abyss of black empty. Yeah, sounds scary. So that makes sense. Right, good. So all of the awarenesses you had so early on that you're just tiny compared to this huge intense, go ahead.
Mell (25:16)
Yeah, I feel scary.
Ugh, overwhelming, yeah.
Yeah, I was just gonna say, and I just feel like this thing of like, if I just hide over here on the side, I'll be okay.
Gabrielli LaChiara (25:38)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. All right.
Yeah, so go ahead and do that. Go find a way to be OK in the abyss and in the emptiness and the blackness, darkness, whatever that might look like.
Mell (25:48)
Yeah.
Yeah, and again, it feels like that feeling of like I'm against the side and I'm just like, I'm waiting. Okay, I'm waiting for like the big scary thing to come.
Gabrielli LaChiara (26:01)
Mm -hmm. And so if you are
taking care of that little part who's still smoshed up against a wall waiting for all the shit to hit the fan a million times over and having a million experiences of just the abuse hitting the fan, the meannesses, the punishments, the rage coming at you, intensity.
What is it that's so upsetting to that part of you?
Like what got heartbroken in this process?
Mell (26:43)
I think just not feeling safe.
Gabrielli LaChiara (26:46)
Mm -hmm. So tell me about why that would be, I mean, we know why it's important to a body, but what about that? What is yours in that? What is your soul just crushed by? Like, wow, I didn't know this about Earth, or I never thought this would happen, or what? Can people do that? I didn't even know they did that. Like, what is it that that young... Good. What is it that broke your particular heart? Yeah.
Mell (26:50)
Right.
funny because I feel like tears coming up. think I was expecting in the family that I was born into, is Hugh Mungus, I was expecting a community.
Gabrielli LaChiara (27:20)
Yeah, I'll feel that. It's just stay there. That this somehow soul level expectation or maybe even a child level expectation, who knows like somewhere in you, you develop this clear expectation that you'd have community and here you are all alone.
Mell (27:28)
Yeah.
alone. And even that I just said this the other day, my god, I just said this to Scott the other day. I said I think the hardest thing for me is that I am surrounded by all of these people that I'm related to and I feel so alone.
Gabrielli LaChiara (27:51)
Yeah, there it is. And we can see you feeling that. So maybe it's not that the abuse wasn't horrific, because I imagine it was. But maybe it's not just that, but it's the what it did, how it separated you.
Mell (27:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Right, like, because even my mom would say that to me, like, you're not part of this family. Like, why are you going to that? You're not part of this. And it was harder, I think, almost. Like, if it would been, I think it was harder seeing all these people around and like, no one saw me and no one fucking helped me. And it's like, we're surrounded by, and even in our neighborhood, we had so many people around us all the time. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (28:14)
Mmm.
and I'm just, I'm feeling so teary myself with like how painful to be having this really terrible experience of abuse and meanness coming at you. And life is blowing up all over the place and you're so scared and how weird it is to think that nobody would know it. Like that it could be so invisible to the rest of the world. And what that would do is fuck with my knowing because what it would do is make me question whether or not I'm actually having the experience I'm having.
Mell (28:48)
Right.
Yep. Right.
Right. And that even, right, no, it did. And it actually, what ended up happening at the end, I thought everybody knew. And then at the end, not, you know, when I was grown out of high school, my mom and I had a big blow up and she told everybody in the family that I tried to run her over with a car and they all believed her. And my grandmother stopped talking to me. Even my dad came to me and said, what did you do? And I said, I did not do that. I was backing out and she ran out at me.
Gabrielli LaChiara (28:59)
I don't know if it did that to you, but that would do to me.
What?
Mell (29:28)
you know, but they all believed her. so it was like, was so again, that really, right. And that really messed with my brain of like, wait a minute, did I do something wrong? Has this whole time of I've been met, you know, and even just the other week, my brother was here visiting, and we were talking and he was like, I don't remember any of that. I'm like, you don't remember her like doing all these things to me. And he's like, no. And again, so it brings this thing of like, is it all in my imagination? Like, I just don't
Gabrielli LaChiara (29:32)
Horrible, I can't even imagine what a reality mess.
I can't trust myself.
Mell (29:56)
And that happened with my boyfriend when he was very abusive to me and I broke up with him. And several people in our friend group who we spent all this time with were like, why did you break up with him? I'm like, because he's abusive to me. And they were like, no, he's not. And so it's been this thing of like, yeah. And so then again, and to not trust my knowing about like who I pick for relationships and for friends. And yeah, it makes me feel like, like I don't know anything or can't trust anything.
Gabrielli LaChiara (30:08)
Mm.
Hmm.
Well, the not trusting yourself is making so much more sense to me right now than ever before. Like, of course you wouldn't trust yourself. You wouldn't trust your own version of reality. Like was so fucked with. And really people that are narcissistic do that. Abusive people do that. They fuck with, they gaslight your reality so that you don't anymore, or you're either fighting so hard for it or you're so confused about what's true. And I really feel that.
Mell (30:23)
Right. Yeah.
Right. Right.
Right. Right.
Right, right. And then the fact that they were like doing it to me. I mean, other people knew my mom was intense, like not, you know, I just talked to my aunt Anne -Marie literally like a month ago about this. And I said, this is what she did. And she was like, really? I was like, I'm so shocked that they had no idea, you know? And so, yeah. So it brings, yeah, great that well.
Gabrielli LaChiara (31:01)
Right. Right. And that she could hide it, hide it that well. And that's also kind of odd because what I'm hearing you say is that it feels like it only happened to you in this particular way. Right. Like it's.
Mell (31:14)
Right, right. Because I went to visit her at work and I kind of imagined her as this really intense, abusive boss. Because I thought that's probably another area where she's got people under her. Everybody loved her there. I was blown away. They were like, your mom is the nicest person I've ever met. And I'm like, what reality are we living in here? And so it really was just me. And yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (31:38)
Yeah. that's just so horrible. I'm so sorry.
Mell (31:40)
And a little bit to my dad, yeah, a little bit to my dad, but then he was, you that seemed more clear because they were married and like, obviously you're gonna fight about things, you know?
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Gabrielli LaChiara (33:34)
What’s occurring to me is to look at and see if we can dismantle and keep looking at, you know, detangling is it's true. Like something about you triggered the shit out of her. And whether it's just because she decided to use you as her scapegoat and she just did that because she was just mean or whether it was something in your personality, something in your karma, something in the history, something because you were a girl, because it sounds like there was a brother.
Mell (33:39)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Right. I think I remind I reminded her a lot of herself because I was the second child and I was a girl and I was very strong -willed and she was and she was really abused by her father. Again, she was the only one of her seven siblings that was abused. He would so she mimicked a family pattern. Exactly. Exactly. And again, it was very bizarre that he would yell, scream at her. She she literally peed her pants. Him yelling at her and he would not do it with any of the other kids. And it's just
Gabrielli LaChiara (34:01)
Mm -hmm.
Mm.
So she mimicked a family pattern to abuse one person. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm.
so horrible. It's so horrible.
Mell (34:26)
who knows, and again, why did that trigger? And so it was a pattern. I can, so that's the thing that's hard is I see it now. I had been able to really forgive her. Like I see why she did what she did, but it doesn't change like my nervous system. It doesn't change like how this has affected me, you know.
Gabrielli LaChiara (34:37)
Mm
Yeah, well, I want to see. I'm feeling, sorry, my brain's, I'm feeling and sensing so many things at the same time. But there's a lot here, you know, and thank you for sharing so much. So honestly, like I feel, I feel really always honored to be on this with you. I'm like, I'm...
Mell (34:47)
Yeah.
No. Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm really ready to heal it. I'm ready to fix it.
Gabrielli LaChiara (35:07)
I believe and you know what? I believe you sometimes we say that and there's like the other part of us is screaming no, but I actually got shivers up my legs. I'm like, I think you really are. So there's a detangling because there's a truth that you're struggling with, which is like I represented or did something that pissed my mother off enough that she decided to be abusive to me, scapegoat me. She picked me or I did nothing. And just by being a fucking live, she chose me to to victimize. And there's nothing we could do about that. That's true. Right.
Mell (35:10)
Right. no, I'm really, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Gabrielli LaChiara (35:35)
It's just a fucking fact. It's what she did, she did it, it's done. But there's something about how that became like a pervasive story, as if that's who you are on earth and you're gonna do this with everybody. And the piece I wanna take apart is like, well, just because she decided to do that to you doesn't mean the rest of us.
Mell (35:47)
Right, so then, yeah. Right. Right, but then it was confirmed by the boyfriend that I had for eight years after that. And so one therapist that I had at the time, I thought they were insane, told me that I picked them, because that's why I was like, well, why do I just make people mad? I just make people mad. I don't know what it is. I make people mad at me. And she was like, no, you picked this person because he reminded you of your mother. And I was like, why would I do that?
And so I do, and I know there's been a whole study on that and I do understand a little bit of that, but so I was glad that I was able to pick Scott after that, who's so different, but there's still that it was cemented so much in there. Cause I mean, I dated him for eight years. So, and again, and that was also perpetuated like, yeah, because my mom kicked, right, right. And my mom kicked, yeah, my mom had kicked me out of the house. So I had to stay living with him.
Gabrielli LaChiara (36:23)
Yeah, right, right.
It's a long time, right?
And then you got it on both sides because you got all the versions,
Mell (36:42)
And again, every time we would yell, I would be terrified that I would be out on the street so that it kind of got like more entangled, you know?
Gabrielli LaChiara (36:42)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, and I guess I can, you know, I know there's a lot of theory about why we do that shit. Probably my most, my simplest theory on it is this exact same thing, which is conditioning, that somehow when we live in those environments, we don't know something else. We just don't know something else. So even if we think we want to know something else or we pretend there's something else or we wish it was something else, we don't know what it feels like to have something different.
Mell (36:53)
Right. Yeah.
Right.
Right. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (37:14)
And something in your consciousness was brilliant enough to be able to take the risk of finding and being with someone like Scott, who wasn't the same, like something worked in who you are. And that shows me who you are. Like if I'm looking for who are you, Mel? Well, that's you, you know, that you can rise through that haze of bullshit and say, wait, life doesn't have to be like this. Like this is maybe this is one person, maybe it's two people, maybe there's five million and I could go find them all and have the same experience. But also there are other things I could do with myself.
you know, and that wouldn't be, I could find somebody who doesn't do that to me. Do you 100 % trust that yet? No. And that's okay, because that's what you're saying, right? But, but something figured it out, you know, simultaneously, I would say it is conditioning. And it's not, it's not your fault. You were raised in an abusive environment. And that's what you knew. And of course, you would like reach towards somebody and try to, it probably there were little ways in which he was different enough that you could have made yourself think it was going to be better than her.
Mell (37:43)
Mm
Right.
Mm
Gabrielli LaChiara (38:12)
or that at least, or maybe he was gonna fix it with you or maybe like whatever, you could dupe yourself. But it's not unusual that we really don't know something else, you Yeah.
Mell (38:12)
Right.
Right. I used to feel like my soul speak was that I had that experience and it was that I had that experience so that then I could really want to do the opposite and be such a loving mother, regardless of like and having really hard children with anxiety and lots of emotions, but that I could just be like, I'm going to love them no matter what. And that's what's going to heal them. That feels really true for me. And so then it's more like, but now that that's
that part's over, but it's over, you know? I you know, I did that part, yay. And it's like, but now like, what do I do now? Like, I don't know what to do with that part of me.
Gabrielli LaChiara (38:57)
And you also, right, if you were doing some of your mothering in converse to the mothering you experienced, at some point you weren't being mothered anymore. there's like, you have to find like a whole new way of doing it from here forward, probably, which is still gonna have a lot of the same parts of you. You have proven to your children that they're loved, they're safe bonds, they're safe attachment. There's like so much good that's happened in your family. You know, so there is a new chapter.
Mell (39:14)
Right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (39:25)
that I think nobody has written for you. And it's not even like, I can take the bad chapter and like try to fight against it. There's just a like, now we just have to find something new that really isn't scripted, right? Parenting your children into adulthood is not what you had. You weren't mothered into your adult adulthood really, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But coming back in here for a minute, I want to release injury recall.
Mell (39:36)
Right, right, and yeah.
Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Hmm.
Gabrielli LaChiara (39:52)
on the parts of you that decided this is a permanently broken part of yourself that shouldn't expect life to give you anything but this over and over. And no matter how strong those genetics were, you do not have to keep recreating that future for yourself. You don't. They're genetics. They happened. They're done. You've done so much healing on yourself. I think there is something about how we meet this moment and detangle the permanency that happened.
Mell (39:55)
Ha ha.
Gabrielli LaChiara (40:20)
in that young child's brain and that abyss and to say like, okay, now what my whole purpose in life is, is to survive this. Because what I hear if I go back in and I feel that like I'm against the wall in this tiny little light, but I'm still light, but I'm stuck at this wall because I'm so scared and there's this big, huge abyss in front of me and I don't know what's going to happen. It's unpredictable and mean and like horrible things. And I'm kind of fucked up. So I'll just hide over here. Like it's.
I don't know, that's such a real experience and there's something different, right?
Mell (40:54)
Yeah, and I was thinking just the thing that came to me now too was like an interesting choice to have these two kids that like, I really did just stay home with them. Like we would go out once in a while and stuff, but it was like our little cocoon was so safe. You know what I mean? Like I used to love snow days. Cause I'm like, okay, we're just going to stay home and watch movies and you know, no one's going to bother us. And so, but it's almost like now I'm being forced or thrust like that if I wanted, you know, I have definite dreams and ideas about this next stage of my life. You know me, I want to travel. want to.
Gabrielli LaChiara (41:06)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mell (41:24)
But in order to do that, I need to make money to be able to do that. So now I'm being forced to be like, okay, like the staying at home and your little cocoon isn't really sustainable anymore. Right. So that's what I've been exactly. When you said that, I was like, that's what I've been doing. I've been making this little cocoon and I've been safe. And now it's kind of like, I could continue to do that. I mean, I could, I guess, but it's at the point now where that's.
Gabrielli LaChiara (41:26)
Mm
It's kind of like being up against the wall, right? It's a little bit like...
Mm -hmm.
Mell (41:50)
It's not feeling helpful or it's not feeling like a purpose. It's feeling more like now it's like it would be more of a depressive, lonely energy. Where before at least I had the kids and the kids' friends would come over and all that. But now it's like if I continue to do that, now I'm like, yeah, it's almost like it's ready to, if I wanna be able to thrive. The next part I have to.
Gabrielli LaChiara (42:03)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, and I think somehow like we can keep staring at the abyss or we could try turning around and seeing if there's something else on the other side because like this is a reality that will always be true for you. You lived in abusive environment with a parent. That's just fucking horrible and nobody saved you in it. And you somehow managed to get through. You even got kicked out. Then you had more abuse and you somehow survived that and you made it this far and you're unbelievably tenacious and strong. And you're still kind of staring at the same.
Mell (42:15)
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (42:39)
Abyss, know, even with your children, you're holding it inside the same structure, which is like, they still fly off the handle sometimes because they were kids, whatever. You're still holding this space down for like waiting for the shoe to drop somebody. You have children who had issues that need help. So there were shoes dropping left and right. Right. And to me, it's like, I know I use that glass wall analogy because I love it. When I was shown that my meditation like a huge glass wall, I try to climb over and I can't. It's too slippery. I want to like bash it open, but it's too thick.
Mell (42:39)
Right. Yep.
Hmm.
Right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (43:07)
And at some point, and it's all foggy, I can kind of see a future, but not. And at some point, I remember this instruction to turn your shoulder to the sidewalk with the glass wall, because a couple feet down the road, yeah, there's no more wall. And that wall is only one piece of the reality. And we put those walls there to regulate ourselves so we don't fly into the future unconsciously and then end up in a big robust.
Mell (43:07)
you
Right. At the end you can walk around.
Gabrielli LaChiara (43:32)
I think that's what we're doing is we're like, OK, this is one. So let's go back inside if we can to you against the wall and imagine that what you're looking into is only one bowl of life. Like if life is infinite, that's just a tiny bit a splice of the world where those experiences are true, even including you're the target. You're the one you're the victim that was a really a victim. That is true. What would you do or how would you support that part of yourself?
Mell (43:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (44:02)
in seeing that that's just one part. What if that's just one huge, huge element? Yeah.
Mell (44:06)
Hmm. Yeah, it's funny because yeah Yeah, I I'm is funny because now when I'm pitching that little party picture I've been like a little shield in front of them with like one of those you know, like trying to protect like ready for battle You know and it's hard cuz yeah, it's almost like I guess I'm especially looking at it from inside there that bowl It almost is like I can't imagine seeing where the light would be or where the part. Yeah
Gabrielli LaChiara (44:16)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right, right. And so, so let's go there. Let's hold there for a minute and let's bring some help in. So if you had a protector,
What would it look like? And it's a completely made up, can be animal, people, colors, sensations, places.
Mell (44:45)
It was funny. The thing that came to me was that guy from Monsters Inc that Sully.
Gabrielli LaChiara (44:49)
Perfect. Great. And where would he be? Yeah, where would he be?
Mell (44:53)
Like the big fuzzy bear, but he's also friendly, but he looks scary to some people, right. No, he just came and stood next to me. So yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (45:02)
Great. Okay, perfect. And if you had a helper, a guide, a wise self that knew better, knew how to find in more perspective, if you had that wise self open and available, what would they look or feel like? Where would they be?
Mell (45:11)
Hmm.
Yeah, that feels kind of more like like an archangel kind of thing. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (45:20)
Good. Just one or like 20 or like 50 or... And where would they be? Good.
Mell (45:23)
Yeah, no, I just imagined one like Archangel Michael. He's pretty powerful. I know I just kind of imagined him like up here, you know, if you can see. Yeah, behind me a little bit. Sorry.
Gabrielli LaChiara (45:30)
Great, like behind you a little. Okay, so you can, that's good. I'm feeling. Good, and if you had every moment in your life that you've ever experienced comfort or joy, if you had all of those moments and they could all be like little stars or hummingbirds or butterflies, how many just unconsciously,
Mell (45:47)
Mm.
Gabrielli LaChiara (46:00)
Not unconsciously, but just from your knowing. How many would there be? Tiny moments could be a minute long. Great. So can we light up all the millions of times where you were free from the abuse? Where it didn't run the show, where it didn't control you, where it wasn't there, where she didn't have power, or he or partner or whoever, they were great. So let's light those all up. That's amazing. Now what do you see?
Mell (46:01)
Yeah.
You know, I heard, yeah, I heard like a million.
Hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, it just seems...
Yeah, it's hard to explain. It just seems lighter. Almost more like I was standing before in this abyss, but it was just that the lights were off. And now that they're on, it's like, OK, it's just a room. It's just a room. It's not.
Gabrielli LaChiara (46:39)
Yeah, I just turned them all on.
Right, it's just a room, good. And I don't know if you can see it, but I keep seeing that there's a ladder behind you. I'm seeing where you saw your archangel, I'm seeing this ladder. It's like, wait, maybe I could climb out of this big bowl of intensity.
Mell (46:52)
Mmm.
my god, I just gotta talk to her really quickly. So I just did a session with somebody the other day and this was the exact same thing that we talked about, that she was in this hole sitting there and I said, could you have a ladder that can get you out of it?
Gabrielli LaChiara (47:12)
Isn't that amazing? You already knew what you needed. You're already giving it to others. Look at that.
Mell (47:18)
And it was funny. And I was like, well, what are you doing in the hole? And she's like, I'm just waiting, just hanging out, waiting. And I said, well, how about there's a ladder? And she was just like, I don't know. I'm just going to wait here. Just I just thought that was funny.
Gabrielli LaChiara (47:30)
It's so cute. It's so cute.
Mell (47:33)
It was for me as well as for her, I guess.
Gabrielli LaChiara (47:35)
Exactly. Well, what we what we need in our subconscious is often what others need. And this is where SoulSpeak is real. We are part of something bigger. We often are sharing needs. You we're sharing storylines. We're sharing energies of what would actually comfort and heal us. And and that's to me, that just represents you being you are a part of something bigger than you. And there is connection going on all over the place that is getting sometimes covered up by this.
Mell (47:40)
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (48:03)
big bowl that seems like your whole life, but how big is that bowl really compared to the rest of the energy in your life?
Mell (48:09)
Right, right. And it's just when I imagine walking up the ladder, then I look back and it's like, it's just like a little pit, but there's also now all this. I imagine coming out, we're going to go to Zion National Park. So I must imagine it's there. like, there's this all, wait, there's this whole thing here. I was just down like in a little cavern, you know? Right, right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (48:11)
What is?
I just felt that.
Yeah, yeah, I got stuck down here, right? And this became my whole reality. And that's, guess, what we're talking about is like, wow, this became my whole reality. And in certain contexts, it still is. And what we're doing in those contexts is saying, well, wait a minute, let's put this in perspective. Because this is never my whole reality anymore, even though it was at one point in my life. I do have other options and have worked for them. And there are other ways to hold this. And so if you were to walk up and say, my gosh, Zion.
Mell (48:41)
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (48:54)
National Park and like a million others just like it are right here for me to explore. And no doubt there's some pits in all of them too, but I don't have to go, I don't have to look for the pit in every good experience as a way of making myself feel at home. So are you willing?
Mell (49:01)
Right.
Yeah. So I guess my question, I was gonna say my question is, that, like how do you get rid of that fear?
Gabrielli LaChiara (49:15)
Or do you? So, right? Or is it more about seeing the fear in a context? Like, can we put the fear into that bowl? I mean, I almost feel like you could draw pictures of it or write stories about it, or we could do more sessions on just really shaping that bowl so we're familiar with it. So when we get ourselves stuck in there, we're like, okay, wait a minute, I need to actually now work at like, understanding why I got here.
Mell (49:22)
Right.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (49:40)
What's really going on? Is there something in my life I am afraid of? Can I address that? And then how do I step, you know, where's the ladder? Where's the hole I can drill on the side of the wall? Or what do I need to do to actually step out and see what else is available to me? Because I think it's just, really is, there's a huge pile of conditioning that makes you want to believe that there's nothing but that pit of a bowl.
Mell (50:01)
Yeah, and it also comes back to, I really think it comes back to the point you said earlier about not listening to my own knowing. And then I get afraid of like, of what is my knowing versus what is the fear and not really, yeah. Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (50:08)
Yeah. Yeah.
What's my reality? Can I trust my reality? Yeah. Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. And sometimes you won't be able to, because sometimes you will be distorted. Like if you're in that bowl, you know, and in that empty space, like you might distort reality and sabotage yourself, right? That feels very different than like when you're, and I've seen you, you know, enough times in community too, to know that when you're not in that space, you're seeing things very clearly. You're like synapses are firing up really well. You're connected. You're making sense of things. You're fitting in. It's like, it's working.
Mell (50:43)
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (50:43)
And so I might want you to, like my home play to you would be, and you never have to do what I say, you know that. But it would be like, a story a day of like times when you were free from that, like experiences that you've had on retreat with us, places you've gone, moments that have felt really plugged in, moments when your kids were really plugged in, you felt the success of that. When was I free? Because the catalog in our brains wants to look at those set of sequence events that happen and make them everything.
Mell (50:49)
Yeah, no.
Hmm.
Mm.
Gabrielli LaChiara (51:12)
And it takes evidence, takes physical, practical evidence to like have a whole journal log to say like, okay, well, I could not believe myself, but now I have 150 moments of being free from that shit. Clearly that's not my whole life, right? Clearly that's not my whole life anymore. And yes, it still wants to win, but I can know when I'm in and I can also know how to be out. And the more you remember that you do know how to do that and that you have done it before and that you're, yes, you're at another rite of passage, so it feels daunting.
Mell (51:16)
Yeah.
Right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (51:41)
But we know you come through this. You know that you can come to the other side. I think the more you'll start to build that evidence tank, you know, that says, there's so many more trees than they were, right? Than that one hole, right?
Mell (51:41)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the one thing that just occurred to me too is that, and I've seen this in other spiritual work is just that making a decision from fear versus love. And I know that that's what happens is I get afraid of something or like, you know, whatever, like a bill will come through and it creates, it starts this little thing of fear. And so then I'm like, my God, I'm going to get a job. my God. You know, instead of like maybe looking at it more like, like you were saying, like have it have more of a practice of like, okay.
Let's just realize like we haven't bounced any checks. Everything's been fine. You've paid all your bills like it's like and to try to like almost recondition it, you know.
Gabrielli LaChiara (52:24)
Mm
Right. And you don't, you obviously want a life change. So the two things are happening simultaneously. It's like, you know, you want a life change. It will be helpful to have more money and there's not, there's no trauma happening in the present time. And so I might say, can I, I might ask myself in that moment, like, let me step back and see, is there a crisis or a trauma that I need to deal with? And if there's not, can I re -invoke? And I would invoke my intention to live my life differently, to show up with more success, to be actually in my
Mell (52:33)
bright.
Right.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (52:59)
own sense of essence more frequently to do the work I want to be doing to like come through this cycle in a conscious and deliberate way. And then that's good. Then it puts that energy to use so that it's like in the fear there's real desire, but you you don't need to go up and down and up and down all the time in that. like, it's, seems like some practices would be helpful. Yeah.
Mell (53:18)
Yep. And I'm also just realizing where like, you know, not to get too personal about it, but like, you know, I had gotten some money from my aunt, so we paid off our credit card and literally within three months it's back up to the balance, the max again. And I'm one, but it's all these little decisions that I'm making that are almost like as a way to self -sabotage myself. You know, I'm realizing I'm like, wait a minute. It's like, and you think at the time, it's only $50. It's only $50. But then after a while I was like,
Gabrielli LaChiara (53:26)
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Mm -hmm, good awareness.
Mell (53:46)
wait a minute, we're making all these decisions and that in the end is preventing me from moving forward and where I want to be.
Gabrielli LaChiara (53:53)
I love this kind of fun practice too. And I think like, I know you have other coaches that you play with and practice and share time with. So you could play with some of these things. like one would be like, am I making this decision from the bowl or whatever we want to call it the pit, you know, like the hidden empty place, the fear and we can call that fear. I just in that conditioning, right? Am I in that conditioning or am I making the play? Cause I think if you start calling it conditioning, you'll be less afraid of it. You know, like interestingly.
Mell (53:58)
Yeah.
Right, fear, yep.
Right at the conditioning, Cool.
Yeah. Yep. Right. Right.
Gabrielli LaChiara (54:19)
Because if we keep calling it fear, then we're scared of the fear. But yes, fear caused conditioning, and now some of it is just conditioning. And some of it is fear. Or am I standing at the top of this Zion National Forest and having perspective on my life? Where am I making this decision from? And to keep being like, yeah. Yeah.
Mell (54:25)
Right.
Right, right. That feels like freedom. It almost feels like freedom versus contraction and conditioning. Yeah. Ooh.
Gabrielli LaChiara (54:44)
Condition, right, exactly. So am I my liberated consciousness or I'm in my conditioned consciousness? And if I'm in my conditioned consciousness, I will know that I might not be thinking straight. But if I'm in my liberated consciousness, we can know that there are a million times when you think just fine about things and make really good choices. So here's just some interplay. And I think I want to follow, keep following this with you because it's a big one and really keep encouraging and enhancing this relationship to those other parts of yourself because this one is winning. But there's all these other parts of yourself that you deserve to give more airtime.
Mell (54:47)
Right, right.
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah.
Gabrielli LaChiara (55:13)
that are here too. Yeah. So amazing. Wow. So you're so welcome. Let's activate you in this divinity of you. Can we do that? Let's invoke that you have way more parts of yourself than just that one kind of tragic really part of your reality. And that when freed from that, when liberated from that, you have all kinds of trust in yourself that's available.
Mell (55:14)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Thank you.
Okay. Yep.
Gabrielli LaChiara (55:41)
and your knowing and your wisdom and your awareness and living free from the fear driven or conditioned driven you. And that yes, you are still just as the rest of us. We all have the conditioned parts of who we are, but they're just parts. They're not the whole. Let's activate the divinity of every single part of you, all of that. And knowing that even in those parts, there is soul wisdom, connection, intention, desire to live, to be enlightened, to be healthy.
And we'll bring all of that down through the center of your being and extend it through all of you and through all times, spaces, dimensions and universes. Calling in those helpers that you use today and any other ones you need for protection, for guidance, to stay with you. And to reparent the parts of yourself that didn't get the care, the devotion, the trust, the validation they deserved in the love.
and activate change and generate healing.
Yeah, thank you. Is there anything else you need before we go?
Mell (56:49)
Thank you.
No, think that's great. Thank you so much.
Gabrielli LaChiara (56:55)
Thank you.
Chloe's Comments Mell (57:02)
Wow, thank you so much Mel. I so appreciated this session and so appreciate you for continuing to step into your healing and your growth. I'm just so inspired and I was really completely dropped in with you the whole time. And what a huge moment in life to be in when your kids are about to be fully out of the house and you're looking out into your future like
Wait, who am I? What am I doing with my life now?
How many of you listening know that feeling? It could be looking out on the precipice of empty nesting, but could also be at another big transition time in your life. Maybe you're moving or ending a relationship or a myriad of other things. It can be liberating, but also can feel like you're on some seriously shaky ground.
The thing that really stood out to me in this session though was the piece around identities. Who we think we are, what roles we take on in our lives, and when they need to shift or change.
Identities are like masks or costumes we sometimes wear our whole lives as a way of coping with challenging realities or experiences that felt dangerous or traumatizing. Do you ever feel like you're wearing a mask? Not the fun Halloween kind, but the kind that's like an identity you've worn for so long that you almost forget it's not really you.
As far as I can tell, we all do to some degree, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It might just start to actually get in the way of you growing, healing, and being the person you really want to be in the world.
When something traumatic happens, whether it's a big event or just a buildup of difficult experiences over time, or you're living in an oppressive dynamic or society for that matter, our brain and body go into survival mode. We start creating these identities to shield ourselves from feeling all that pain, fear, or vulnerability. It's kind of like armor we put on when life is hard. And honestly,
sometimes it's the only thing that gets us through. Maybe it was growing up in a stressful environment, dealing with some serious bullying, or facing a loss that felt impossible to handle. We create these identities to survive in situations that feel unsafe or out of control. For example, if you were emotionally hurt or neglected growing up,
Maybe you developed this tough, independent identity where you don't rely on anyone because that feels safer. Or if you experienced a lot of instability, maybe you took on the fixer role, trying to control everything around you to create some sense of security. Maybe you were the responsible one growing up, the one who always had to keep it together while everything around you felt chaotic.
Or maybe you turned into the people pleaser, always trying to keep the peace so you wouldn't rock the boat too much.
Whatever your version or versions of these identities you may have taken on are, it was a brilliant way to navigate when you didn't have any other options. So way to go little child version of you. And yet maybe, just maybe, those identities are now blocking you from being who you truly wanna be in this world. Free to be your authentic, integrous, radiant self.
And it's not like the identities haven't been helpful for a while. They can be. The perfectionist mask, for example, might help you excel at work or school. The caretaker mask might keep the people around you happy and prevent conflict. They help us cope, manage, and maybe even be happy ourselves in the short term. They make us temporarily feel safer.
almost like we've found a way to navigate the world without getting hurt again. But the tricky part is we often forget that these masks aren't us. They're like temporary costumes we put on to deal with life's hard stuff. But when we wear them too long, they start to feel permanent. They go invisible and we feel like they are us. And it can be hard to even identify that they exist.
But eventually, that safety comes at a cost. You start to lose sight of who you really are beneath it all. The mask becomes your whole self, or so you think. And you forget to ask yourself, wait, what do I actually want? What do I need? And is this really who I am? Which are all such important questions. At this point, you might be wondering,
How in the world do I start to step out of the identity, take off the mask, and be who I truly am? It's a great question.
and is the part that requires a little bit of courage or maybe a lot of courage, faith, and willingness to hold the not so comfortable terrain of the unknown.
And just to say, the process can be very gradual and take years to fully unravel. There's no rush. Sometimes the first step could be just getting curious about what characteristics or aspects of yourself might actually be an identity you've been living with, but might not be the real you.
you may start to realize, wow, maybe this people pleaser or jokester isn't the full me. Just that realization alone can be a huge step and you start seeing these patterns for what they are, identities you've been living with, but not necessarily you. Now I will say for most people at this juncture, you'll probably need help with a therapist or coach
to get support and going deeper. And sometimes the identity is so out of date, it's easier to see underneath and start to shift your relationship to it. With help, if you feel like you need it, you might begin to get curious when that identity kicks in, what you're protecting by taking on that persona. A big part of this is holding space for the healing around the shit that made you create the identity in the first place.
Sometimes that means processing old trauma or just recognizing that, hey, you don't need to play that role anymore. You can be you without hiding behind the perfectionist or the people pleaser or whatever mask you've been wearing.
Again, it can be a slow and steady process and you might feel vulnerable at first, but it can also begin to feel really freeing as you start letting yourself show up as the real you, not the version of yourself that's just trying to protect you from more pain or getting hurt. We always say that you don't have to just throw that identity away in the trash never to be seen again.
It can be like a costume sitting on the shelf of options next to you. If and when you need to put it on, it's there for you. You might just not need to wear it all the time. As I've personally worked with some of my deeply ingrained identities, it has been truly life -changing and has felt incredibly liberating
and also relieving because a lot of the characteristics of the identities I had created were so not who I wanted or want to be in this world and were really not aligned with my values and authentic divine self. It was such a different feeling to begin to realize I could not only survive without them running my life, but I began to have even more of myself available to show up for my loved ones, friends,
clients, community, and for myself. It's been so helpful and so good. This identity work can be really powerful and yes, not always easy, but I think it's beyond worth it. So good luck as you begin to get curious. And if you can, definitely bring in some self -compassion along the way. It can be super helpful in this journey.
Chloe's Comments Mell (1:05:55)
Well, until next time, sending you lots of love.