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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
00:00:06:01 - 00:00:28:00
Unknown
Hey, it's Matthew Cudmore and welcome to Story Behind the Stone. Today we're honored to have France Q Hoang on the show. Army Ranger, former associate, white House counsel and special assistant to the president, Board of Advisors for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial and no one left Behind. Distinguished visiting lecturer at the US Military Academy at West Point and co-founder and CEO of Boodle Box rising AI powered platform.
00:00:28:02 - 00:00:50:16
Unknown
France’s journey began in 1973, in Saigon, and as the city fell in 1975, he and his family were airlifted out and settled in the Pacific Northwest. It's an escape that became the catalyst for his life a life of service, leadership and innovation. France graduated in the top 1% of his class at West Point. He served as an Army Ranger and in special forces in Afghanistan, and then he pivoted to law.
00:00:50:18 - 00:01:10:00
Unknown
Georgetown White House counsel and special assistant to the president before returning his service and his career in tech. In this episode, we'll explore the significance of the Vietnam War Memorial as a living testament to sacrifice and new beginnings. And if you're curious about leadership, legacy, and how technology and memory intersect. Stay tuned because this episode is for you.
00:01:10:02 - 00:01:11:03
Unknown
Thanks for tuning in.
00:01:16:07 - 00:01:38:08
Unknown
Welcome to Story Behind the Stone, a podcast where we talk service, sacrifice and story. Today I'm joined by our guest, France Hoang, with Boodle Box. France. I don't know how to do a short introduction for you. Your life has so many chapters. So I might throw the microphone to you to give folks an update on who you are and and what's keeping you busy.
00:01:38:14 - 00:01:59:23
Unknown
And then maybe we can get into a little bit about kind of how, you know, in the early days of your life story, you had some substantial change, navigated successfully, and got to where you are today. Yes. Thanks, Matt. First off, it's just great to be here. I really enjoyed meeting you. Hearing about the inspiration between Behind story behind the Stone.
00:02:00:01 - 00:02:15:15
Unknown
I am a storyteller at heart. I love and believe in the power of storytelling. I've had a fortunate life. I often tell people, try to live your life in a way so you have a lot of hold by beer moments. That's another way of saying live a life where you have a lot of stories.
00:02:15:17 - 00:02:39:07
Unknown
And I, I've been a lot of different things. I've been a lawyer. I've been a soldier. I've been an entrepreneur. But my first role in life, one of my earliest roles, was a refugee. My family originally came from Vietnam, and that was, 50 years ago to the day last week. I was really touched to hear about how you touched down in In Small Town USA.
00:02:39:07 - 00:03:00:09
Unknown
What were your first days like? I know that you were very young, but maybe you've heard about it from from your parents. How was that? Yeah. So just to bring everyone up to speed, you know, I was born in Saigon, Vietnam, in 1973. My family was part of the airlift at the end of the Vietnam War. So April 23rd, 1975.
00:03:00:10 - 00:03:28:23
Unknown
That's 50 years ago last week. America did an amazing thing. 130,000 Vietnamese. Allies airlifted in a matter of weeks from Saigon. Most touched down into Guam. And then from there, headed to one of four resettlement centers in the United States. My family happened to go to Camp Pendleton and a marine Corps base in California, and the first few days and weeks were uncertain.
00:03:29:01 - 00:03:59:23
Unknown
It's a new country. It's new life. And that's where, you know, while American Car did a great thing, that's at the point where Americans started doing great things. Thousands, tens of thousands of Americans stood up and helped. You know, these new arrivals to America's shores. In my case, it was really interesting. Governor Brown of California famously said at the time he did not want any Vietnamese refugees to stay in California.
00:04:00:01 - 00:04:17:21
Unknown
Governor Evans of Washington State heard these comments and wondered what is the hubbub about? So he sent his aide, a man named Ralph Monroe, to travel to Camp Pendleton who reported back. Look, I, I see tens of thousands of men and women and little children playing. And, you know, they're they're ready to start a new life.
00:04:18:02 - 00:04:42:15
Unknown
And so, Governor Evans had Ralph deliver a message, and the message was, Washington state wants you. You are welcome to Washington State. And so myself and thousands of other Vietnamese heard that and came to Washington. And, we arrived and stayed first at a Washington Army National Guard armory. And then was taken in by a sponsor family, the Petersons, outside of Olympia, Washington.
00:04:42:15 - 00:05:04:12
Unknown
And they helped us get on our feet. And, they did the best thing possible for a new rival United States. They didn't take us in, for very long. We stayed with them for a week, and they said, you need to go find a job. You need to go find a house. You need to you need to get integrated and learn what it is like to live in America and to be an American.
00:05:04:12 - 00:05:29:19
Unknown
And that's what my family did. Do you still keep in touch with the Peterson family? Yes. They are still alive. They live in Washington state. What's interesting about is they had children almost the exact same age as me and my younger sister. We're the same time. So I have this wonderful picture of of me and my family and the Petersons and and their family and all the kids together, you know, talking about all of your chapters.
00:05:29:21 - 00:05:53:10
Unknown
You went, to West Point. You served at the white House. What what led you, down that path to have so much success at those institutions? So first, I couldn't have any any success if I didn't have the opportunity for success. And so I am, well, maybe painfully aware of how fortunate I am.
00:05:53:10 - 00:06:20:10
Unknown
And there's an alternate universe somewhere where little baby France did not come out of Vietnam. Right. And my parents would have probably ended up being, at best, put in reeducation camps, at worst, killed. And yeah, I live a very that France is living a very different life on this planet. Right. Because this France got the chance to come to America, to get an education, to get all the opportunities that being American provides.
00:06:20:12 - 00:06:38:22
Unknown
Growing up, I learned about my family's history. Matt and I, and I came to appreciate the opportunities I had. And I felt that, I had a debt that need to be repaid. I felt this sense of obligation to the veterans who served in Vietnam, to the military that rescued me and to this country through those opportunities.
00:06:38:22 - 00:07:10:08
Unknown
And that's what inspired me to a lifetime of service, starting with serving in the military. I felt that I owed a debt to the military for rescuing me and my family. And so that's what inspired me to apply and get an appointment to West Point. And from then, obviously having the amazing opportunity to serve in uniform lead America's sons and daughters, and always in the back of my mind thinking I am walking in the same footsteps of the of the men and women who came before me and who served, who served me.
00:07:10:09 - 00:07:39:10
Unknown
And so to be able to have the chance to serve others like you were served, is an incredibly powerful and special thing. You served as a peacekeeper in Bosnia. Is that right? I did, yeah, when I was a platoon leader, as a second lieutenant stationed in Germany with the 95th Military Police Battalion in 1996, I had an opportunity to deploy, what was then a platoon and then later lead a company minus and a detachment as a as a peacekeeper in the second wave into former Yugoslavia.
00:07:39:11 - 00:08:16:03
Unknown
What's your recall of those days? Like? Do you remember the first day that you touched down in Bosnia? The first day I so interestingly, I didn't land in Bosnia. I drove from Germany to Hungary. I literally self deployed my platoon. We loaded up our Humvees and And went on this epic multiple day road trip to Hungary and then eventually drove across the border into Croatia and eventually drove south to the Croatian, a Syrian border, Bosnian border.
00:08:16:05 - 00:08:41:12
Unknown
And yes, I remember those days well, it was my first time mat ever experiencing what it was like to be in a country where there wasn't the rule of law, where might mate. Right? Right. And, you know, I remember seeing pictures of Vietnam, seeing this kind of chaotic, you know, what, what war time look like. And that was my first time seeing it in person, but not my last.
00:08:41:12 - 00:09:12:23
Unknown
How is your perspective on the conflict changed since you served? I've come to appreciate all sides of the equation a little better, right? I've come to appreciate, you know, later on it is amazing opportunity to re commission as an army officer served in Afghanistan with Army Special Forces. Even though I'm not a Green Beret. Between Bosnia that experience, I had a chance to see first what it means to to serve right and to lead soldiers, in wartime and in peacekeeping.
00:09:13:01 - 00:09:34:22
Unknown
And that gave me, a greater appreciation, even an even more great appreciation, right. For the service, the sacrifice of the people in Vietnam, particularly because they were not celebrated for the service the way we were. Right? I mean, when I came back from from both Bosnia and from Afghanistan, you know, I was met with a resounding chorus of thank you for your service.
00:09:34:22 - 00:09:56:09
Unknown
And that was the opposite of what the Vietnam veterans experience when they came home. Second, I, I came to appreciate, what a sacrifice the allies made. So here's an interesting contrast of all the things that we ask our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines to do. One thing we don't ask is for them to put their family in harm's way.
00:09:56:11 - 00:10:18:09
Unknown
Yet when and when a Vietnamese soldier decided to fight, or when an Afghan soldier decided to ally with the United States, they were not just putting themselves in danger, they were putting their family at risk. And that that was really driven home to me, seeing the impact that war had on civilians and on families in both Bosnia and Vietnam.
00:10:18:11 - 00:10:45:15
Unknown
And then, you know, seeing, the, you know, I only I was the beneficiary of the generosity of Americans when I came out of Saigon, I got to see and participate firsthand as an American, right? During the evacuation and fall of Kabul, when I saw tens of thousands of Americans stand up and say, I, you know, I want to help and try to help our Afghan allies do that.
00:10:45:15 - 00:11:07:14
Unknown
And that was a very full circle moment for me back in that period of time with the evacuation. What were you feeling in those moments, like what it must have been must have been very emotional. And you saw a lot of parallels with your own family's experience. It's one thing to know in your mind, right? Like, gosh, this is a terrible situation, having to upend your life, you know?
00:11:07:14 - 00:11:28:23
Unknown
And I lived it. But I lived it as a child. I came, I start all over again. It's really my parents who bore the brunt of having to start all over again. Right. And that was not the case of, again, Afghanistan, because in that case, I was seeing it firsthand now and participating in it firsthand and having, you know, seeing the desperation of families getting.
00:11:29:03 - 00:11:45:15
Unknown
And I wasn't the only one that but getting signal or text messages in the middle of the night from a child saying, you know, leaving a voice message saying, you know, can you help, you know, my father, you know, served a few can you help me get my family right? We need your help. I'm having to make terrible decisions.
00:11:45:15 - 00:12:14:13
Unknown
Like which family gets prioritized on a chance to get out of Afghanistan versus another family, and just seeing the utter desperation of people who were paying the price for standing by America. You helped with kind of the initial evacuations. And then were you involved as well in a a private charter after as well? The evacuation out of Kabul pretty much lasted the last, you know, 2 or 3 weeks of August of 2021.
00:12:14:15 - 00:12:49:16
Unknown
And at the very end of August, Kabul International Airport, you know, it's Kyra Harman Karzai International Airport closed its doors forever. And that had been up to that point, the only way to get out of really the only meaningful way to get out of Afghanistan. Some people were going across the borders, but that was the way out when when the airport closed, I found myself in a situation with a number of other volunteers where we had several hundred Afghans that we were working with, that did not get into the airport and did not want to go back to their homes.
00:12:49:16 - 00:13:21:00
Unknown
They still wanted to get out. And so we ended up through a kind of bizarre twist of fate, responsible for these hundreds of Afghans, that wanted to get out. And we ended up taking them to a different city, Mazar e Sharif, which is sort of like the Casablanca of Afghanistan. A little bit more, more free spirited and spending several weeks hiding them, protecting them, feeding them, keeping them safe and trying to secure and coordinate pay for arranged logistics, get a flight out of Afghanistan.
00:13:21:00 - 00:13:49:23
Unknown
And in mid September we were successful in organizing the very first private charter flight out of Afghanistan after the U.S. ended its military and diplomatic presence. And on that plane, there were 380 passengers, 94 families, 152 children. And I'm happy to say all of them are now in the United States starting new lives. Probably, you know, one of the most, terrifying and terrible moments and things I've ever been involved in.
00:13:49:23 - 00:14:18:00
Unknown
But obviously one of the most, gratifying, and impactful things that I've ever been involved in this as well. And, and not the least of which reasoning was, you know, each of those families, once upon a time, my family was one of them coming on a plane to America. Unbelievable. When does the book come out? It's it's it's an absolutely jaw dropping story.
00:14:18:02 - 00:14:38:14
Unknown
The are there any, are there any family stories that, that you recall, from that period in particular? You don't have to name names. Is there any one story that stuck out to you? I would encourage anybody who meets a Vietnam veteran or a Vietnamese refugee, or an Afghan refugee or an Afghan veteran, ask them to tell you a story.
00:14:38:16 - 00:15:03:09
Unknown
I tell them their ask them to tell them, tell you their story or a story they know because there's so many stories out there. You know, I'll tell you the story. There's a there's a family. There was a soldier who I worked for closely in Afghanistan I stayed in touch with. He was the reason I kind of got involved again with the evacuation in the first place.
00:15:03:13 - 00:15:23:10
Unknown
He was the one who needed the most help. And he was also the one I tried, like, ten times to get out of Afghanistan and just just bad luck, you know, he would like, just the doors would be closed, the bus would leave, the gate wouldn't open. And it was him and his wife and eight kids. And eventually, they did get out.
00:15:23:10 - 00:15:44:18
Unknown
They were on that plane that I described to you in the mid September. And then the settling in Lincoln, Nebraska, and I visited them. I visited them about a month ago and got to see, this family. Right. And see these, you know, these this mother and the father. And there were eight children. Several of them had graduated from college now.
00:15:44:18 - 00:16:07:12
Unknown
And I spoke to them, you know, one of them was, you know, driving a truck across the Midwest and another and he, you know, he was thanking me and tell me all about, you know, his new life in America. But really touched me was I've a picture of, of the family on the plane, and the father is sitting next to the youngest daughter, and she has this look on her face that is both hopeful and terrified at the same time.
00:16:07:12 - 00:16:23:21
Unknown
Right. Just know what is going to happen to me. I can only imagine if I'd been old enough, I would have worn that same look. Matt. Yeah, but I got a chance to meet her and talk to her. And she's now a freshman in high school in America. And I asked her, you know, what are your plans? She goes, well, I want to be a lawyer, right?
00:16:23:21 - 00:16:45:13
Unknown
I want of you. I want to be a humanitarian, international rights lawyer. And that's what I want to grow up and do. And I, I guess I think about her life and her opportunities. Matt, here in America, and compared to what she would have had available to had she stayed in Afghanistan, particularly because who knows what happened to her parents.
00:16:45:15 - 00:17:15:12
Unknown
And I'm looking at myself, right? I'm looking at myself, you know, 40 years ago. Right. And, some incredible parallels, deeply gratifying. So many stories like this. Matt, that I encourage people to find and seek out and listen to, you know, you're involved, with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Foundation. I know, you know, this is a big year for anniversaries related to that conflict.
00:17:15:14 - 00:17:34:09
Unknown
How are you seeing your role in that, and how are you keeping those stories alive for the next generation? So I am involved with a number of, nonprofits. I no one left behind. We just continue to help our Afghan allies relocated and resettle. I'm on the board of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, which is keeping alive, the wall.
00:17:34:09 - 00:18:09:03
Unknown
Been more importantly, the the the significance of the wall and helping educate another generation of Americans of what it means to serve and to sacrifice. I do truly believe that a life of service, is the right kind of life and that the reward for a lifetime of service is a lifetime of service. I also believe that one of America's superpowers, maybe our, you know, most important superpower is our ability to inspire people to serve.
00:18:09:08 - 00:18:38:20
Unknown
And that doesn't just include people who are born here and raised here and had all the benefits and includes people like myself, who from all around the world who come to America. And it doesn't take two or 3 or 4 generations before immigrants start giving back. It starts with that person, right? And we have this amazing ability to take people from anywhere else and make them Americans.
00:18:39:00 - 00:19:01:17
Unknown
Right. And to have them love America. And so I'm dedicated towards those two idea, right towards inspiring service and continue and making sure that those opportunities exist for future generations of Americans and would be Americans. On a typical day to a quiet day, if you were walking with someone personally that never been to the wall before is there a name?
00:19:01:22 - 00:19:08:19
Unknown
Is there an individual that has drawn you that you draw other people to? Myelin was inspired in her design.
00:19:08:19 - 00:19:21:08
Unknown
I still remember seeing it for the first time. I went on a Washington, DC field trip in eighth grade. It was my first time being on the wall. It was the place where I decided that I. I wanted to make a difference, and I wanted to repay this debt.
00:19:21:10 - 00:19:53:10
Unknown
And I still remember quietly walking down into the wall, right. And you descend into the earth. And not only are you overwhelmed by the sheer number of names, the tens of thousands of names, but then you realize at first what you see is the names, and it's overwhelming. But then your eyes defocus a little bit and you see yourself, and it's your reflection in the names, which I think many people subconsciously kind of hits them.
00:19:53:10 - 00:20:20:13
Unknown
But it may also consciously realize that, you know, what we're seeing is a reflection of ourselves, right? Of of our country, of our values, and in their service and sacrifice were seeing us. And so I encourage people to go out on the wall. There's not one meaning of the wall, right? It's it brings whatever meaning you bring to it, and it reflects whatever you bring to it, literally, right and figuratively.
00:20:20:15 - 00:20:39:15
Unknown
So I think that's the power of the wall. And I encourage people to go down there and just have some quiet moments of reflection. And, and I, I visited different points in my life and I've had different, different things I've taken away from that journey. In your own family, how does your family look at what you're doing today with the Vietnam War?
00:20:39:17 - 00:21:08:07
Unknown
All of us who are immigrants, to have different ways of celebrating and experience this this week is very meaningful because of the 50th anniversary, the fall of Saigon. There are many gatherings in place to remember and commemorate. Particular because for at least 130,000 Vietnamese and it also represents the same time that left the shackles of of a war torn country and started a journey that eventually led to the shores of the US.
00:21:08:13 - 00:21:28:17
Unknown
So, not my you know, my family, is remembering thinking about, 50 years is a long time and a blink in the eye all at the same time. I wanted to talk a little bit about how, you know, in the, in your, in your trend line of, of of, huge, impressive wins throughout your life.
00:21:28:19 - 00:21:48:20
Unknown
You're also leading, company on the leading edge of artificial intelligence. Tell me why. Why I why it's important to you. So every time we have new technology, we have to figure out a relationship with it. And that goes all the way back to, you know, do you think about it like the car change, the way we transport things, you know, oil change the way we heat and light homes.
00:21:48:20 - 00:22:12:01
Unknown
Right. Electricity changed the modern economy. The assembly line changed the way we we manufacture the internet, changed the way we we connect with information, social media. It changed the way we connect with each other. And sometimes we get those relationships right and sometimes we get them wrong. I'm very concerned about getting the relationship with AI, right?
00:22:12:02 - 00:22:39:09
Unknown
And in particular, reading people for this AI enabled world. And, AI is intellectual automation at scale. It allows us to do things that we didn't know where possible. It also allows us to do things that we do really well faster, better, more efficiently. It's still early days, Matt. But I'm very concerned about reading people for the next for this, this AI journey.
00:22:39:09 - 00:23:14:07
Unknown
And so Boodlebox is a platform around this idea of lifelong learning and work with AI, and we're starting off where tomorrow's workers are today, which is the college classroom, because that's where 16 million, 18 million students are learning how to use AI responsibly. And we want to help them do that. I think it's absolutely essential, at our own little company, at member Anchor, we're very careful to, to apply AI where it makes sense and where it's giving real value to, to people and really breaking down barriers as understanding so completely support you in your mission.
00:23:14:09 - 00:23:34:10
Unknown
And, it's really inspiring what you're doing for, you know, America's next generation. France, I want to thank you for coming on the show today. If folks want to keep in touch with what you're working on, what's the best way to follow you and support all of your work across so many dimensions? Connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm the only France like the country and then middle initial Q - if you type “France
00:23:34:10 - 00:23:47:10
Unknown
Q” I'll come up and I welcome people reaching out and messages and connections. Well, again, thank you so much for your time today. Great to chat and all the best. Okay. Thank you for coming on the show. Thanks, Matt. Great to be here.
00:23:53:06 - 00:24:12:16
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story. Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Rise Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and tune in to search for wreath. We air every Thursday at 10 a.m. eastern on the Red Cross Radio Network. Thank you for tuning in.