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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Hello? Megan. Hello. So this week has been crazy. Crazy.
Speaker 2:I Also, we had other kid in the hospital right now, so it's just been
Speaker 1:Oh, no.
Speaker 2:It's been nuts. Like, everything's fine. Everything's gonna be fine. Just I'm not getting to play. We have to work.
Speaker 2:I wanna do stuff. I wanna talk to cool people.
Speaker 1:I wanna
Speaker 2:learn stuff. I'm just kidding. I don't
Speaker 1:wanna learn
Speaker 2:anything. But I'm really glad that you are on my list for today. Thank you for being on my list
Speaker 1:today. Oh my gosh. I was so excited when I told my friends and family. They're like, what? You're gonna do what?
Speaker 2:You told everybody you were gonna be on the podcast?
Speaker 1:Well, I told my my best friend and my husband and my kids because they think it's so cool when I do stuff like this. Aw. They're like, mom, you're almost famous.
Speaker 2:That's funny. Do they know what kind of podcast?
Speaker 1:They do. My my closest friends and family all know. And then fairly recently, within the last two months is when we decided to talk to the kids about the DID.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:It was it was very scary, but so incredibly liberating too because they were so understanding and accepting.
Speaker 2:Let's back. We have to work our way to that because Okay. Oh my goodness. So you are my friend, Megan. Yes.
Speaker 2:And we met in person. We're not just online friends, but we met in person at the Florida conference.
Speaker 1:Yes. Which was awesome because I felt super special that I get to be one of the few people to meet you in person.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We're pretty hiding. Like, that was not English. We're pretty hiding. I'm good at hiding is what I meant to say.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty good at hiding too.
Speaker 2:It's scary. And I felt bad because you were hanging out with cool people, and then I offended them because I only said hi to you. So I was a terrible person.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you didn't offend them. I'm sure that they just felt like it was a timing thing because you kinda saw us in the lobby when you said hi. So it wasn't like a planned meetup.
Speaker 2:Right. But sat with me out while I waited on my bus to go back to the airport.
Speaker 1:I did. Which is great. Another happy accident.
Speaker 2:It was wonderful, though, because then I was not scared to go to the
Speaker 1:airport. Oh, good. That was I'm glad that I helped.
Speaker 2:You did. That was very kind of you. I wanna hear you with this story. I mean, whatever is appropriate. You know?
Speaker 2:But I wanna hear this story about how did your husband find out? Well, how did you oh, la la la. We have to back up even more than that. How did you find out about DID, and when? Tell me your story, Megan.
Speaker 1:So I found out, apparently, years ago, my best friend told me that she noticed, like, differences in me at times and how I just wasn't always myself. And I was just kinda like, oh, okay. Whatever. And filed it away for another day. And then a couple years later when I got pregnant with my oldest son, she tried to talk to me again about DID and was like, hey.
Speaker 1:So I think there's some things going on with you that you might wanna address. It really kind of messed with us. And so we, again, filed it away in a little box to be opened later. And it wasn't until, like, a few months ago in therapy that I remembered all this that I'm like, oh my gosh. That makes so much sense when Catherine came to be.
Speaker 1:Wow. And Catherine is she's kind of, like, our our mom figure. She's the one that handles the kids the most. Mhmm. Because, like, I can get very triggered by the kids.
Speaker 1:Like, all at once, they can just be so much. Yes. And so it'll kinda trigger Katherine, and she kinda steps in, and she's like, okay. What do we gotta do? Let's handle things.
Speaker 1:Let's get it organized. Let's and then she just sort of takes it one at a time. Boom. Boom. Boom.
Speaker 1:Problem's all solved. And I'm just like, how did did I just do that? How did this happen?
Speaker 2:I know. How did they do it? Like, when Emma's being all mommy ish. Like, she's like, oh, I'm the worst mom. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Wine. Wine. Wine. Like, except I can't do what she does. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So how did you find out after your friend told you?
Speaker 1:So I found out over the summer when I was in residential treatment Oh, good times. I yeah. It was actually a really good residential program. I was very surprised. It it helped out a lot.
Speaker 1:And they the one of the doctors there had read over my file and, like, all of my symptoms and my history and everything. And he says, have you ever heard of DID? No. What's that? And he says, and then, you know, he explained it.
Speaker 1:And I said, oh. And he goes, so I think that might be what we're we're looking at here. And he said, okay. So we've got a lot more going on inside than we thought. Right?
Speaker 1:And he says, yep. It sounds like there might be more going on than you thought. And Aw. I said, okay. So I kinda freaked out, like, a little bit.
Speaker 2:Or a lot.
Speaker 1:Not yeah. Kind of a lot.
Speaker 2:Just I always knew there
Speaker 1:were, like, other people there. Like, I remember hearing voices all my life, but I just thought that's what it was. And for years, they thought I was schizophrenic.
Speaker 2:Wow. You were misdiagnosed with schizophrenia before you found out with DID? Mhmm. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:I was even diagnosed with borderline personality disorder when I was a kid.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I and so when I found out, it just it took me a little bit of time to understand it, and I started watching the YouTube videos and reading all these blogs and the podcasts and listening to those and everything. And I'm like, okay. This actually makes a lot of sense. This makes the most sense to me out of everything that they've said over the years.
Speaker 1:Because I started in the mental health or, you know, started in the system, so to speak, when I was 13. Wow. And I'm thirty thirty five now. I had to think about that.
Speaker 2:So you going to the conference in Florida was a really big deal.
Speaker 1:It was huge for us. It was huge, and it was so liberating and so incredible to meet other people that struggle with DID and that to have that opportunity to be, like, open with other people outside of my family was so I don't know. It was it was very overwhelming but very freeing at the same time.
Speaker 2:What did you think about the things you learned, like, in the sessions?
Speaker 1:Well, first, I wanna say thank you because you were guys were a big help in us being able to go. I I learned like, I know it's gonna seem kinda silly out of everything, but one of the big things I learned was that it's okay to laugh at myself.
Speaker 2:That's an amazing thing to learn. How did you learn that?
Speaker 1:Well, it was in the session with and I cannot remember her name, but she did the razzle dazzle. She's now integrated. It was on the last day of the conference. I can't remember her name, but she was so funny and so insightful, and she just really made me laugh at DID. And the fact that that some of the experiences that we go through, you have to laugh at.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, we're really gonna lose our minds. You know what I mean? Mhmm. And some of this stuff is just so funny too because, like, an average person does not experience co consciousness
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:The way that we do. Like, I don't know if you guys have experienced co consciousness with a little, but the first time it happened, it is very strange.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. I have never even had that thought cross my mind. I can't imagine. We are we are, for the first time, starting to maybe I don't know. It makes me really nervous, and I don't know why it makes me nervous.
Speaker 2:But I feel like me and Em Mhmm. And maybe Cassie and the Emilys are a little bit maybe getting some co consciousness going on as I understand it. Oh, wait. Let me read something. Hold on.
Speaker 2:Okay. I read this just yesterday. I asked the question on a group about co consciousness because I think that's what's happening, but I'm not sure. And it scares me. So then, like, I try to be like, oh, yay.
Speaker 2:We're making progress. Then I'm like, Oh, that's scary. Never mind. But this person said, Co consciousness is when more than one alter at one given time is aware and conscious of what is going on in a situation at any given time, but not necessarily participating in behavior or action. So she's saying it's about awareness instead of influence or causing it or being out front.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Is that what you're thinking?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes total sense. That way of it being, like, described. Because I always think of it as them being, like or me being in the back seat. Like, I can see of a car, you know, like, I can see out the windshield and I can see the people driving and in the passenger seat, but I can't really do anything.
Speaker 1:So I'm just kinda back there, but I can see what's going on or, you know, whoever. Like, Catherine will be in the background a lot.
Speaker 2:So it's not when you can't necessarily do anything because you're not driving. You're not out front. But you know where you're going and you know what's happening.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And then I think of the amnesia part being, like, being in the trunk of the car and you got no clue what's going on. Oh, okay. You just totally blown my mind. What?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's how we see like, that's how it makes the most sense to us.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, actually. Thank you.
Speaker 1:You're very welcome. That's how I've described it to, like, the husband and stuff and he understands it better that way.
Speaker 2:I can't imagine being co conscious with a little.
Speaker 1:It's it's really weird. Like, one of them kinda popped out the other day for a few minutes when we were driving, which was really scary.
Speaker 2:Oh, no. Because she
Speaker 1:saw this huge beautiful rainbow. So she became co conscious and started using, like, the body's voice to talk about the rainbow. And I'm like, okay. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:We gotta, like, rein it back in a little bit, honey, because I'm driving and we gotta focus on driving. She said, but it's so pretty. It's so pretty. And I'm like, I know. And when we get home, we will draw a beautiful picture of it.
Speaker 1:And that made her, like, calm down enough that she could watch and see, but she wasn't, like, co fronting, I guess, is what she would have been doing at that time because she was using the voice. Okay. So I just worked that out on my own.
Speaker 2:Wow. It's amazing. Right? That is one of the reasons even though the podcast is super crazy, and why would someone as introverted as us do a podcast? Like it makes no sense except that keeps happening.
Speaker 2:What just happened to you?
Speaker 1:Yes. I I feel like when you talk about it with someone or sometimes if I just talk about it out loud, I can work things out so much easier than I can on my own because I get stuck in my own head Right.
Speaker 2:And get stuck at certain points. And journaling helps a lot, but sometimes when you're journaling, you can't write as fast as you're thinking or as fast as you And then you get onto, like, a different tangent. And so we don't wanna give up journaling, and we use journaling a lot, like, a lot. The podcast has really changed things for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's one of the reasons I've been considering doing one or at least just making recordings for myself to kind of work these things out and then still remember them. Because like I'll work it out and then I forget it and I'm like dang it what was that awesome thing I figured out the other day? Right?
Speaker 2:Right? And if we can't like just carry the therapist around in our pocket then like we need we want to make more progress or like not more progress, but what like solidify. Like what you were just talking about, we can go to therapy and have this moment, but it's really hard to hold on to. But when I listen to it over and over again, then I can hold on to it better. And Yeah.
Speaker 2:When we talk about like, we're not gonna talk about like, we're not here for just, like, shock value. We're not gonna talk about the details of therapy. But when we talk about the things that we're learning or like the principles so to speak, can reinforce it for everybody even if they weren't able to hear it. I think that's part of why the co conscious stuff is happening.
Speaker 1:That could be. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Because we're becoming like more and more aware of what's actually happening.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And everybody else is becoming more aware of everybody else. And so they're like, hey. I wanna remember this. I want in on this too.
Speaker 2:Right. Wow. How were you, like, so nice to that little? Like, you're obviously a good mom already. I know that whether you guys feel
Speaker 1:like it or not. Thank you.
Speaker 2:But but I would not be that nice even to my outside kids. No. I'm just kidding. I, myself, I'm not speaking for others inside, but I, myself, am not, like, to a place yet where I can just be nice to them. Like, for some reason, they still really annoy me, and I don't know how to fix that.
Speaker 2:I'm aware it's a problem. I'm, like, too verbal about it. Like, I know like, I'm not just trying to be naughty or snarky. I don't know. Like, the compassion piece, I'm not good at compassion, and I don't know how to be patient or gentle with them the way you just described with the rainbow.
Speaker 1:I honestly think it comes from the time that I worked as a nanny and at a daycare. No way. Yeah. Because they were somebody else's kids. So at an early age, I had to learn how to be nice to other kids.
Speaker 1:Now there's others of us inside that are not so nice to the kids.
Speaker 2:That's me.
Speaker 1:Like, Becca, she can get in into it with our daughter a little bit who's five. And so she's, you know, a typical five year old, and she can get pretty snarky. Sometimes the others don't really appreciate that very much, and they'll get into a fight with her. Like, Emily, especially, and her can really get into it because Katie likes to take the stuffies that belong to us. And so she doesn't understand that they're mommies.
Speaker 1:So Okay. Some of the younger parts get into it a little bit.
Speaker 2:That is happening to us right now because our three year old yes. Our three year old is turning four, and she is in the hospital all the time. Like, not all the time, but frequently, like, a lot. And the thing that always happens is, like, people feel so sorry for her, which is fine. Like, they should.
Speaker 2:I'm not, like, dissing her experience of being in the hospital. Like, all respect for everything she's endured. But people always give her stuff to animals. Like, they will just give her stuff all the time. So not only is she, like, at that age developmentally anyway, but it's reinforced because people just are like entranced with her and just give her stuff.
Speaker 2:And she is obsessed with the bear that we got from our therapist and it's as big as she is. Like they're the same size.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And it's the bear in the picture in the system speak picture. Is trying to steal it and it is an all out war going on.
Speaker 1:And I don't know what's gonna happen. I bet. Because we only have we only have three stuffies that really mean something to us that we wanna hold on to. But yeah, a bear as big as she is, I bet that's hard for her to not want to try and steal.
Speaker 2:Right. She even when she was at the therapist's office with us this week, she was like, that's what she wanted to ask the therapist was if it was her bear or if it was our bear and the therapist was like you're not gonna make me tell her. Even the therapist was like oh like you can't look at this child and know her story and not just be entranced with her and it she works some kind of magic but that's not healthy like she needs to learn like people will say no and that she can't just have whatever she wants like That's our bear man! Wow. Well, you gave me I will not forget that rainbow.
Speaker 2:Like, you gave me a very clear story, like, a visual that really that kind of thing really helps me. So, like, the driving the car thing. I think that's what the Chris's were trying to tell me, but I didn't understand. But you helped me understand co consciousness with the car thing. I can hold on to that visual, And the being nice to the littles thing, I can maybe hold on to that visual with the rainbow.
Speaker 2:That make
Speaker 1:yeah. And it was just it was for us, it was just something simple to oh, the the rainbow was just sort of for us, it was a chance to explain, you know, it wasn't safe for her to be out, but that we still appreciated her rainbow. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It's super sweet and it's it's a very clear visual that really helps. Thank you. Oh, good. Because my response would be you're annoying me right now and I want to do what I want so back off. Not really.
Speaker 2:That's terrible. But even joking about that is terrible. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:No. Don't be sorry. It's I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's the way that you feel about it. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:So how did your husband find out about the DID?
Speaker 1:I was talking with the, psychiatrist that diagnosed me, and I hadn't yet found a good therapist. I was still looking. I mean, found a good therapist, but I knew more about DID than she did. Right. But I was talking with him about it and he asked me, he says, well, have you talked to your husband?
Speaker 1:And I said, no. He said, why haven't you? And I said, well, I'm scared. I don't he told me, and this is gonna sound bad on the podcast, but he knows that I tell people this to just help them understand. A few months before I had gone into residential, he told me, he said, honey, I love you and I will stand by you, but I don't know how much more crazy I can handle.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I kind of freaked out because I knew that there was more, and he knew that I heard voices. He knew about that part, but he didn't know to the extent of everything. You know, he didn't know that the voices were other people. Right. Because they hadn't fully started to really come out in a known way yet.
Speaker 1:But when I did tell him, he you know, I said, honey, I have been diagnosed with DID, and then I explained what that meant. And he kinda looked at me, and he says, so there's more of you that live inside there? And I said, yes. He goes, you know, that makes a lot of sense. That brings
Speaker 2:back together.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you know what? And even the kids said that, they're like, that makes a lot of sense now. And for me that really, really helped to validate things for me because I've been going through so much self doubt. I'm like, it can't be DID.
Speaker 1:I can't be that crazy. You know what I mean? Because that's what people use as, like, the standard for crazy, which I think is so horrible.
Speaker 2:It's wrong. Yeah. It's wrong.
Speaker 1:But that's why people like you and the youtubers and everybody are out there trying to break the stigma. But they I should be nice
Speaker 2:then if we're breaking stigma.
Speaker 1:No, think you're being real and that's what helps break the stigma. You're showing that you're not like this perfect person. You're just an average everyday person who's got issues just like everybody else.
Speaker 2:That is me, the queen of average.
Speaker 1:I don't think you're average, Sasha. I think you're amazing. I love you. Oh, you're hilarious.
Speaker 2:Husband said the same thing. I was like not that he was not he's, like, spiritually committed, so he's not gonna say that he can't handle more crazy. He's just gonna get more and more depressed and internalize it. But he he is his response was the same thing of, I feel so much relief that there's a word for what's going on. And now that I understand that there's a word for it, everything else just falls into place and makes sense.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. So are you glad that he knows now?
Speaker 1:I am. Because I before, I'm a stay at home mom, and there would be days where I got, like, nothing done. And there still are days where all I did that day was survive.
Speaker 2:That's a pretty big deal, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And some days that's the hardest part is just making it through the day. But before, my husband would come home and I would make up excuses and lie to him about why nothing got done that day. Now I can just tell him it was a bad day or I'm not sure who was out this morning, so I don't know why things didn't get done. You know?
Speaker 1:And he's like, okay. It's understandable. And he'll help me get stuff Yes. He's for real the most amazing husband. I love him to
Speaker 2:death. Isn't that amazing that in a world where there were so many bad guys or bad girls, but you know what I mean, who did such terrible things that of all the like, the impact of that on us and all the drama we went through as adolescents or young adults that somehow we got these amazing husbands? It is. It's incredible. And it I don't know.
Speaker 1:It blows my mind that people like them are in the world even sometimes. After having been through all the ugliness and stuff that we have, to still find people as beautiful and loving as they are is pretty incredible to me.
Speaker 2:You're gonna make me cry.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna try and make you cry.
Speaker 2:Thanks a lot, you big sap.
Speaker 1:When it comes to the husband, I am. I'm a big sap when it comes to him. We've been through some stuff in the last, like, almost ten years. Well no it has been ten years now. Wow.
Speaker 2:You don't even know. We're like, I know I'm mad to you. Maybe yesterday, maybe a decade, I don't know.
Speaker 1:At some point it happened.
Speaker 2:How did you and your husband tell your kids about the DID?
Speaker 1:Well I actually, what was it? It was the patchwork quilt. Yes, we talked to Yes. And that that's what kind of, I guess, gave me the courage to talk to them because it was a very visual way for them to understand it and to see it better than I felt like I could explain it. Okay.
Speaker 1:So I showed my oldest son the patchwork quilt first, and he kinda looked at me, and he said, okay. So that makes more sense. I was like, yeah. And he said, yeah. That explains why.
Speaker 1:And he's in seventh grade now, but he remembers being in third grade. And there was one night that I helped him with his math homework and did it flawlessly, which to most people seems normal. I don't do math. I don't know how to do the kids math because math was taught math was taught to me one way, and now they gotta do it a whole new way Right. Which makes no sense to me.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like, why change math? So he remembers
Speaker 2:Math was supposed to be the one thing that stayed the same.
Speaker 1:Right? Like, history changes. Math doesn't. It's it was fine. So he remembers really vividly me helping him do his math homework, and it was all correct.
Speaker 1:And he was so confused. He even went to bed that night confused as to how mom helped him with this complicated math homework. Wow. And there have been times when, like, the littles would come out and kinda, like, gallop around the house. Like, they were on one of those little hobby horses or, you know, other little things that were definitely definitely not mom behavior that for him, it was kinda like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:That makes sense now. And they're they're so cool about it because, like, there's some parts that are not very happy all the time, you know, and they're very angry. And sometimes they'll come out at, like, just very forcefully at a moment when I would have responded more calmly, but they get very angry very quickly. And so I have to go back and apologize to the kids, you know, and say that I'm sorry for getting so angry with them or using such harsh words with them. And now they're so understanding about it, and they they get that it's not always me.
Speaker 1:And then I don't mean to hurt their feelings if it happens.
Speaker 2:It sounds like it's brought a lot of healing to your family as a whole.
Speaker 1:It really, really has. It's been a huge impact for all of us. And even with my extended family, I won't say their name or anything, but I have an extended family member that recently came out on Facebook after having talked with me about her DID. And it was way. Yes.
Speaker 1:It was so incredible to have that. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. Like, somebody else I know that's close to me understands these struggles. Holy crap. So that was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:And I felt like it was a huge step for her because she hadn't told very many people.
Speaker 2:That's a big deal. Mhmm. We have not told. We are not out as DID at all with anyone other than the husband and our therapist.
Speaker 1:Really?
Speaker 2:We did for the first time that Emily went with some ladies from church to lunch, like just two ladies because, you know, we don't like people. So and so like we've been working out for like eight months just to go to lunch with these people and they tried to take us out for our birthday and we were like yeah no that's not happening you can't make it.
Speaker 1:But no way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But therapy was so good recently on some specific things that, like, Em actually initiated it, which Really? Is like, what? Like, I don't even understand what's happening anymore or who's doing what. That's when the co consciousness stuff started coming up, but we're using that app to talk to each other some.
Speaker 2:And so she saw that and helped set it up because one thing that she is really good at is doing all the kids appointments and so she just saw it I guess as an appointment that we needed and just set it up and so while we were at the lunch though, Emily talked about not DID specifically, but she talked about how because of Molly's talk, they heard they were there when Molly gave that talk. And Oh. Oh. And so they knew that was, like, the first outing of we've had some trauma in our background. And so it was like Emily just took it one step further of, I have some dissociation because of trauma, and so it's really hard for me to meet for lunch.
Speaker 2:But you all the two of you have always been very kind to us, and we appreciate that. And, like, just in very generic terms, use the word in a sentence kind of thing, but did not expand on that at all.
Speaker 1:But even that, I feel like is a huge piece. Like, that's a huge step for you guys.
Speaker 2:It was terrifying.
Speaker 1:To admit. Well, I'm sure. Because disclosing anything to anybody is always scary as all get out.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:It's always every time we have to tell the therapist something new, it's so scary. And she's so wonderful. Like, I could not have asked for a better therapist. She's an incredible woman, and a little piece about her is her first client that she ever had as an intern even had DID. Oh my been in the thick of it from the beginning, so she really knows her business.
Speaker 1:But one thing that I love that she does when we're talking about something difficult is that she has crochet and knitting that she works on sometimes because the sound helps kind of distract us a little bit from what's bothering us. But she'll look down at her knitting, and she won't make eye contact with us. And she explains ahead of time that I'm not gonna make eye contact with you on purpose so that others inside may feel more comfortable, and they don't feel like that I'm staring holes into them while they're trying to talk. And for us, that was huge because we don't have someone directly staring at us when we're sharing the most, you know, awful, intimate details. That was a big one for us.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. We can barely look at our therapist, so I don't know if she looks at us therapist, so I don't know if she looks at us or not. Sometimes we can look at her shoes. Sometimes That's why I
Speaker 1:like having my knitting because then I can just sit and look at my knitting. I don't have to look at her. And she doesn't take it personally. She knows that I'm doing it because I can't make eye contact right now.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I know we do better if we have something in our hands, but I don't know how to knit. I don't know if anybody knows how to knit. I'll be like, hey. Do we have any knitters out there?
Speaker 2:Because you're now driving the hands. Just I don't wanna say that because it would happen. It would freak me out.
Speaker 1:You would you would just start knitting one day, and you're like, what in the world? Dad,
Speaker 2:the the thing our therapist does like that in a different way is that sometimes well, we had a therapist in the past that, really took advantage of who was out and would try to trick people, like getting she only liked certain ones and would try to get them out of and really manipulated that a little bit. And so it's kind of a trauma piece we have, and I don't need to go into that right now. But because of that, we're really sensitive about switching. And sometimes, obviously, in therapy, it's hard to even hang on or Yeah. Hard to stay present even if you wanted to, but we're really self conscious about switching because of that.
Speaker 2:And we've come a long way on it, But sometimes when we're struggling, she's just like, I'm gonna go get you a drink of water, and she just steps out.
Speaker 1:Aw. That's so sweet.
Speaker 2:She is. Or or she would let us leave, or she just will go get us a peppermint or something. Or That's odd. Know. Off her desk to look at the notebook or something.
Speaker 2:And so, like, the same thing sort of letting some of the pressure off, I guess.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Giving you that space to do what you need to do.
Speaker 2:I am so glad we have her, and I am so glad you have a good one because it makes all the difference, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It does. It really does. And with with her, I have. I've never been fully honest with any of the therapists I ever had because I never felt safe enough. I never felt Yes.
Speaker 1:Like, it was okay to share everything. You know? But with her, even from the very beginning, from my first appointment, I just felt this calm from her, this acceptance that no matter what I said, it was gonna be okay. And I've never had that before. So it was it was a big sign for me that I knew this was the one.
Speaker 2:We've been with our therapist now longer than we've been with any other therapist and have told her way more than we've told any therapist. And I don't know if we've even started yet. Like, I don't know if it counts, but we've done so many years. But it's still more than ever before and longer than ever before. In fact, it's like our anniversary week of when we found her.
Speaker 1:That's right, which is awesome and so, like, incredible. Like, I don't even know. Like, I get so excited for people when they have a great therapist or when they've been with one for a long time because it's it's so hard to get to therapy in the first place.
Speaker 2:It makes all the difference. It
Speaker 1:does. And I'm I'm one of those big, like, therapy preachy people. I'm like, oh, you got depression? Go to therapy. No.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm like, I'm serious. It'll make you change your mind. It's amazing if you find the right one.
Speaker 2:How did you okay. We talked about how you found out and your husband found out and your children found out. How did what about your friend? Is this the friend that knew before anybody else, or is this a different friend that now you're out to be?
Speaker 1:This is a different friend that the friend that told me about everything, she's kinda the one that told the other friend because she has zero boundaries.
Speaker 2:In a, like, good friend way or in a not good friend way?
Speaker 1:A little bit of both. Like, she always has my best interest at heart, but it's not always in the best place.
Speaker 2:Someone else outed you. So how did you deal with that?
Speaker 1:Well, I was really lucky that the person she outed me to is my friend, Cindy, and I know she won't mind me saying her name. And she has and I know I'm gonna get it all wrong, but she's gone through the psychology field as far as through, and she has her master's and her bachelor's and all of that in psychology. So for me, it wasn't too terribly uncomfortable. It was more like she already understood a lot more than I did about it. So it turned out to be a really good thing because I've known her since we were in middle school
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:But we were never very close. And now she's, like, one of my best friends. Like, I don't know what I would do without her. She's amazing. Wow.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, and she's she's met a couple of the other insiders, and, you know, she just anytime I tell her, I'm like, hey. I'm not quite feeling myself today. She's like, that's okay. Whoever wants to come and hang out is cool.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I
Speaker 1:know. It's huge. Like, when you just have people that are there for you regardless and just accept you for who you are, it's
Speaker 2:I would like to give a thousand points to Cindy. We want a moment of silence in honor of Cindy for being the best best friend. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Aw. She's gonna love that when she listens to this later.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean it. Friendship is really hard for us, and we are trying in some ways. But, also, one thing that I've like, one thing that we've really learned from the therapist, maybe even just in the last couple of weeks, is to just be okay with not being okay with lots of friends. Like, it's okay Yeah. That friendship is hard for us.
Speaker 2:It's okay that friendship is not necessarily our thing, and it's okay that it's not, like, a big, big priority for us. And that sounds terrible. Like, I don't mean that the people that we care about are not priority. That's not what I mean. And I don't mean that.
Speaker 2:Like, I have to learn how to be nicer to people or how to communicate with my friends or say, hi, Megan, once in a while and to stop saying on the podcast that that I don't have friends because Julie is my friend. Like, I know I need to learn these things, but it's hard. And it's also okay to just say I'm not in that place right now. I just can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's totally okay. And, like, when I message you and I don't hear back for a couple of days, I don't get hurt at all. I just figure you're either going through something or you're really busy and you've got your own thing going on and you'll hit me back when you get a chance.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. How are you guys on spring break right now?
Speaker 1:We are. And it really sucks because I had plans because the there's that sounds really bad.
Speaker 2:It's so true.
Speaker 1:Well, no. I had plans. I was gonna take the kids to the zoo because we have an awesome zoo here in Saint Louis. But I threw out my back on Monday night, so I've just been on the couch.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:And so the kids have been taking care of me. Bless their hearts.
Speaker 2:That's hard. We are actually in the process of planning a zoo trip.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love the zoo.
Speaker 2:The idea the therapist gave one of the littles the idea, and now it's been like an obsession. But life is happening and snowstorms are happening, and we haven't made it yet, but it's in process.
Speaker 1:You know, on snowy days, those are some of the best days to go see, like, the big bears and the big cats because they like to get out in the snow and play in it.
Speaker 2:You are so smart, Megan.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that for a long time. And then somebody told me and I went, and I watched those little okay. The big bears, they're not little, in the snow playing like they were little puppies or something. It was the cutest thing ever. I think, like, lions and tigers would like the snow, but they do.
Speaker 2:That's funny that you're in Saint Louis. When our youngest daughter was in the hospital all the time, we were life flighted all the time to Cincinnati Children's. And so when we would drive there or have to drive home or whatever, we always came through St. Louis. So, like, I can tell you where the waterslide hotel is because that's so important about Saint Louis.
Speaker 1:Yes. Absolutely. That's the one thing we're known for. Oh
Speaker 2:my goodness. So how what are you gonna do about your back?
Speaker 1:Well, my my other friend took me to urgent care yesterday, and it's just it's like a fracture sort of. It's nothing major. It's happened before, and it just takes a couple of days, and then I'm good and some steroids, and I'm good to go.
Speaker 2:Woman. This is another piece about DID. It's like there's this level of pain tolerance where you're like Yeah. Oh, it's just kind of a fracture, but I'll be fine in a couple days.
Speaker 1:I know. I was walking around with a fracture, like and it's a small fracture, of course. Otherwise, I probably would have been in a lot more pain than I was. But I kept thinking to myself, I'm like, could somebody just take over? Because I'm tired of the pain.
Speaker 1:Nobody wanted to take over, though. Yeah. Don't know why.
Speaker 2:Nobody wants to take chemo either. Let me just No. What what do you think is the hardest piece about DID? Not the history. I don't mean, like, bad memories or something.
Speaker 2:I mean, like, funk trying to function with DID.
Speaker 1:I think not knowing from one day to the next, like, the consistency. We don't have that of, like, who's gonna be out when or being able to control it yet. So for us, like, in the mornings, I'll wake up and I'm like, okay. I got this list of stuff to get done, and we're gonna start now. And then the next thing I know, it's 05:00 and only two things got done.
Speaker 1:I'm like, woah. Crap. So I think for us, the inconsistency of, like, not being able to get done everything that we wanna do because others wanna do stuff too.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So maybe that's partly my fault because I don't take into account what others might wanna do that day. I didn't even think about that. Wow.
Speaker 2:It's just your list, and it's not entirely your day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's just mine. It doesn't account everybody else. Wow. I just thought of that.
Speaker 1:See, there goes another one of those, like, mind blowing moments.
Speaker 2:Right. So you have to kind of, like, adjust. We have to adjust our expectations Mhmm. If we're gonna really be able to work together.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like That makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:Life just happens. Like, we've had a child two children in the hospital this week and extra interviews because that there's that movie is coming out, the five piece movie or something. Then we could interview the cast. So there's, like, a whole bunch of extra interviews that we didn't plan on having at all. And, you know, sometimes life just happens, but at the same time, everyone else's needs still keep going.
Speaker 2:Just like your kids when your kids still have needs even though you have a fracture. Mhmm. So you have to adjust your expectations. And eventually, miss Megan, even, like, ask what their expectations are, what they need out of the day.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna do that. Then I have to, like, plan for other people too.
Speaker 2:It's exhausting. It is.
Speaker 1:You know, I think maybe that's what it is. What's the hardest thing for us? Like, it's exhausting caring for this many people emotionally and physically in one body. Yeah. Emotional needs of everybody are so much and so difficult to navigate because and I'm finding out that some things that don't trigger me, like, being around certain people, I'm okay with it, but it triggers other people inside.
Speaker 1:And that's why I get so much anxiety. And I didn't know this. Like, the I think it was the therapist or it was the psychiatrist. I don't know which. But they brought it up, and I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:That makes so much sense. Yeah. But then, you know, you're in a situation of, well, how do I handle this? What do I do then? Do I just cut off all contact with that person?
Speaker 1:So we're working on that piece of, like, how to handle those situations.
Speaker 2:That's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What do you think would be the hardest part for you guys, you think?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I think maybe, at least for me, the hardest part is, like, we're so at the beginning of things. Like, you think, oh, we're making so much progress, and we've learned all this stuff. And then it's still, like, all like, maybe we haven't made any progress. I think the hardest part is that we're still learning how to how to communicate and how to cooperate a little bit and work together or listen to each other or navigate some of those things like you just said, and it's exhausting.
Speaker 2:Like, we were at the eye doctor this week. And first of all, there's, like, confusion because we have, like, three different prescriptions. And why how do they do that? And what is how do we get three pairs of glasses paid for? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there's the part about she saw all of the kids too. Right? The eye doctor saw all the kids and the husband. And she was like, I don't know how you keep up with a family of eight. And we're like, you have no idea.
Speaker 2:That's not even a third of it. Like Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's way more in this family than you can even count, lady.
Speaker 2:Right. That's that's the hard piece. I think for me, a part of it is that I would like to have more friends, and I feel held back sometimes by other people's issues internally. Other times, I feel really guilty because things that I think are okay were actually traumatic for other people or caused other problems, and I I didn't mean to do that at all. I just thought I was doing this.
Speaker 2:You know? And so
Speaker 1:Or sometimes you feel like you're doing something good, but it turns out to be something really bad for somebody else. Right.
Speaker 2:So Yeah. I feel like we're making progress in this area of, like, being able to understand each other more and work things out differently than in the past, so that helps. But it's also just hard that in some ways, it feels like everything moves so slow in therapy because you can only do so much in an hour or in two hours. But Yeah. At the same time, in other ways, things are changing so fast.
Speaker 2:I'm just like, shut it down. We are taking a time out. Like, No. Yes.
Speaker 1:It's too much change all at once, but then it's not enough at the same time.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's so confusing. I think that's what's hard about DID. It's very confusing at times. Like, I don't know if you guys experience this or not, but I talked with another couple of friends that that have DID that I met at the conference, and they also experience times where they just don't know who they are. They don't know who's out, and it gets really confusing.
Speaker 1:And we've been experiencing that quite a bit, and it's the husband will ask, you know, who who am I talking to? Because he gets kinda confused because usually he can tell. But I'm like, I I don't know. I don't know who I am. He's just like, oh, well, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, if you're someone new, welcome. I'm Matt. Wow. So
Speaker 2:I think, I don't know, I think I've wondered I've seen people talk about that, and I wondered if that's something that happens later. For me, like, I always know that I'm me. Like, I I'm Sasha. I'm always Sasha. I'm never confused about being Sasha.
Speaker 2:But for the first time, when I was trying to talk the other day after therapy and do that podcast, like, I was saying stuff that I don't know how to talk about. I was saying stuff that I don't know why I was saying it, and that was my first experience of feeling that. And that was all kinds of weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's very confusing when because I've experienced that where I say things or share things that I don't mean to, and I'm like, wait a minute. That was not at all what I had planned to say or what I thought I was saying.
Speaker 2:It's disorienting. It is.
Speaker 1:It can be very confusing.
Speaker 2:What has been the most helpful thing that you've discovered since finding out about the DID? Like, what helps solve the world for us, Megan?
Speaker 1:What helps me the most is actually knitting. It helps to ground me, and my therapist explained that it's also the left right movement of the hands that helps to calm my inner cells. Because, like, with EMDR, they use those tappers that I don't know if you've ever done it or not, but they're just these little, like, nodes that you hold on to, and they vibrate left, right, left, right. And that engaging of the brain can help to self regulate and calm. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 2:It's fascinating. So have you done EMDR?
Speaker 1:I did try EMDR twice when I was in residential. It didn't go very well just because I thought it was a bunch of hooey, and I couldn't I wasn't I wasn't in a place yet that I could, like, accept that and visualize things that well that I needed to. But now I think if I tried it with my current therapist, it could probably work. I don't know. Because we've been doing, like, visualization work, and I'm guessing it's like hypnosis.
Speaker 1:Only I don't know what hypnosis is like. Right. But we are, like, building my inner world and, like, a safe place for us. And I tried doing this on my own after watching Sarah Clark's videos. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But before, I was always at a distance. I couldn't, like, get to the island. And so but now with the therapist's help, I can actually, like, be there and, like, feel sand beneath my feet and smell salty air, and it's, like, mind blowingly crazy.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Our therapist is magical. I don't know. Like, we can walk in
Speaker 1:her office
Speaker 2:and, like, stuff just gets done. I don't even know how she does it or what happened. I just like
Speaker 1:It just happens.
Speaker 2:Her it's her title is just capitalized, the therapist. Yeah.
Speaker 1:See, ours is is kinda the same way. I feel like she's magic. It's when you find the right one that's the right fit for you, I feel like it's it is magic because it's so hard to find that person. It's kinda like finding the right person for you to marry or to be with. It's so hard to find that person.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's the same way with therapy.
Speaker 2:Yes. And when you find it, like, that person is worth, like, actually investing in and doing the work, and it's so fucking awful. But when you're connected and have, I don't know, I can't even I can't even talk about it. I'm grateful. I do a lot of hiding and a lot of spying.
Speaker 1:We do a lot of hiding too. Well, I do. We hide. We have a an a fort that's set up in the bedroom, and it's seriously just like this tiny little corner that somehow we fit the whole five foot frame body into, and that's where we hide when we need to hide. And it works.
Speaker 1:It helps us to feel safe.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And then the kids will find us in there sometimes, and they just kinda giggle. Or the daughter will try and climb in there.
Speaker 2:Inside kids, outside kids, they will always find you.
Speaker 1:That they do. It doesn't matter where you go.
Speaker 2:Is there anything else you would want someone who's new to being diagnosed with DID that you would want them to understand or to know?
Speaker 1:I would say it's gonna be hard, but it's going to be worth it. All of the journey you're gonna go through will get you where you need to be. And if you can find the right therapist, if you can find the right support group, then it'll make all the difference in the world. And for us, the videos and the podcasts made a huge difference. It just helped us to not feel so alone and to know that our experiences were being felt by other people because I either thought everybody was like me or no one was like me.
Speaker 1:And now I know there's millions like me. They may not have the exact same experience or the same history, but they understand things in a way that nobody else will and that's huge for us.
Speaker 2:Well, that was just sappy again.
Speaker 1:I didn't mean to be sappy.
Speaker 2:You're just gonna start you're gonna do like the compassion podcast.
Speaker 1:There we go. I should. I should. I tend to be a very compassionate person or I try to be.
Speaker 2:You, and I appreciate that you were kind to me in a moment when I was afraid and anxious. And I appreciate that you were so gentle in your connection and that you've been so responsive to so many different parts of me even when we are not always good at returning the favor, and it's something I'm learning. You have modeled that well and taught a lot about what it means to be a safe person for someone else, and that is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:No. You're making me sappy or feel sappy.
Speaker 2:Rainbows, baby.
Speaker 1:Yes. Rainbows. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your friendship. It means a lot to me.
Speaker 1:I think you guys are all so amazing, and, like, all that you do is just incredible to me, especially doctor e's role in things. Like, that she can work and she can do her thing, and she's so freaking smart and then still kinda maintains her separateness. Like, it's unbelievable to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. She's pretty boring.
Speaker 1:Well, I find her stuff pretty fascinating from an outsider's standpoint, but I don't live with her. So
Speaker 2:you're just a nerd. Now you are I'm just gonna start labeling you because I'm a bad friend. And so now you can your podcast is now called the compassionate nerd.
Speaker 1:I like that. The compassionate nerd. I am a big nerd. I am a big nerd.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. I have to go before my children start any fires or blow up my house.
Speaker 1:Thank you for talking to me. Thank you. You're welcome.
Speaker 2:Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeakcommunity.com.
Speaker 2:We'll see you there.