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For long-form interviews, news, and commentary about the WordPress ecosystem. This is the companion show to The WP Minute, your favorite 5-minutes of WordPress news every week.
Matt Medeiros (00:01)
Welcome back to another special episode of the WP Minute as we hit the holiday season. As the year comes to an end, it wouldn't be right if we missed out on predicting what's going to happen with our favorite content. Still our favorite content management system, right? Heads nodding. It's still our favorite. Okay. ⁓ Be remissed to not talk about the predictions for 2026 for our favorite CMS WordPress. Welcome Raquel, Eric.
and Kurt to the program. I have one of those, have this, have that right, does that do something? ⁓
Eric Karkovack (00:35)
Bye y'all.
Raquel (00:40)
He did.
Matt Medeiros (00:41)
This
is the highest level of production that we can afford around here. Raquel from Wonderland Curious and also the ⁓ community advocate for the WP Minute.
Raquel (00:54)
I like it.
Matt Medeiros (00:55)
I got that title right. Eric, managing editor and chief and co president, vice president, sometimes janitor and accountant and writer and podcaster and videographer and lesson and course creator at the WP minute. Welcome.
Raquel (00:57)
You
Eric Karkovack (01:09)
Thank you, glad to be here. Too many titles for me though.
Matt Medeiros (01:10)
Is that enough titles for you?
Kurt Von Ahnen, co-star, co-star of the Agency Action Podcast, let me tell you something. And I'm not just saying this because it's part of the part of the network. I don't miss a single episode.
Kurt von Ahnen (01:30)
I am continuously shocked at the brilliance that Toby brings to the conversation.
Matt Medeiros (01:37)
Every day, every time I listen to that episode, to an episode of Agency Action ⁓ podcast, I think to myself, how do I get Kurt away from the other podcasts that are out there that he does? How can we get more Kurt?
Kurt von Ahnen (01:56)
You're on the right path so far, Matt.
Eric Karkovack (01:58)
Yeah.
Raquel (01:59)
You need
to tweet that. How can we get more Kurt?
Matt Medeiros (02:02)
And it's funny, I was also, when I was listening today, and I don't know if you do this on purpose, but, and maybe this is just a me thing, it's probably just a me thing, but when you do one of the voices of like, like that alter ego of like the person who's like questioning you, I always feel like it's Jonathan's voice.
Do you do that on purpose when somebody's like, I'm not going to pay $500 for this website. I'm like, he's doing Jonathan. man, it's fantastic. ⁓ Predictions. ⁓ Listen, I have some predictions in my head. We're to go around the room talking about predictions. If you're out there ⁓ listening to this or if you're out there watching this on YouTube, leave your comments below ⁓ and let us know what your predictions are.
Kurt von Ahnen (02:22)
⁓
It's alright if I pop around.
It is fun.
Matt Medeiros (02:51)
If you're listening to the audio version and you want to just tweet at us, you can tweet at any of us on the panel or at the WP minute. Get your predictions in. We'll share them in the newsletter. If you're in the WP minute community, ⁓ leave a comment wherever you're looking at this link and we'll get you in the newsletter for predictions for your 2026 predictions. I'll go first. OK, I'll go first and I'll try to steal one.
that I think is one that I've been harping on for a long time. And it's gonna be the hot take. It's gonna be the one that Raquel is gonna flip the desk over. Because her and I have talked about this before. I think we're going to see a restructuring of WordCamps in 2026 to fewer WordCamps.
Raquel (03:32)
Yay. No! I don't flip desk!
Matt Medeiros (03:50)
And it might, it's obviously not going to happen in 2026, but we'll see the groundwork for just a single big event for WordPress moving forward. You want to jump on that one, Raquel, on any thoughts and feedback of that crazy prediction?
Raquel (04:08)
Yeah, first of all, way to run into my lane just now. ⁓ No, it's all good. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ I don't disagree. Where I think the prediction is gonna implement is that it's gonna organically happen and not because.
Matt Medeiros (04:14)
Well, I mean, it's fine. We can... can... Merge him.
Raquel (04:33)
the powers that be want it to happen. I know for sure there's a push to bring WordCamps back. And I personally feel all sides of that. they're just, especially in North America, they're just not really, I will say Canada is doing its best to keep it alive. But it's just such a different beast now. And you know, in a lot of the ways that WordPress itself is,
Growing up, a lot of us that have been in WordPress a long time who have organized WordCamps for a long time are also growing up. I think about during the beginning and the middle of the recession, the housing crisis and how like coworking blew up. And it was such an amazing time and a lot of the coworking I was involved with you pay with social capital, lot like our open source community. And then all of a sudden,
those types of that model of co-working died because people just got to the point where they could no longer pay with their time and talent and they wanted to just pay with actual money.
Matt Medeiros (05:42)
Yeah, yeah.
Raquel (05:42)
And
that's the hard part that we're seeing with events. And I know that even from my own personal experience, when I asked about alternative WordPress events and thoughts around it, responses have been like questioning the intent of those who are organizing it. And as someone who, full disclosure, hosts one of those events, the intent is because we're spending a lot of time and effort into an amazing, amazing event, and we're doing it for free.
Matt Medeiros (06:11)
Yeah.
Raquel (06:11)
And at
the end of the day, need to make a living. So how do you marry that and bring more WordCamps when there's a little bit of burnout, there's a little bit of discourse within our community, and it's really hard to get people to want to do that for free, even though we believe in open source and we believe in WordPress. So I don't know if that helped. I just said a lot more.
Matt Medeiros (06:34)
Yeah, no, I mean, my thought process is I interviewed ⁓ Miriam Schwab yesterday from Elementor. That episode won't be out yet. But I did a recap of State of the Word and I look at State of the Word as Apple Day, like, you know, if I was in match shoes and I'm using this as the most prominent event. well, actually, Raquel, you were there, right? And here's what I didn't know. You know, for those of us on the outside who just watched the live stream, first of all, the live stream kept breaking, which
Raquel (06:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Matt Medeiros (07:04)
Miriam said was a problem with the internet at the Salesforce tower where the event was. ⁓ But when you compare that, because this what I did in my recap, when I compare that to Tokyo last year, like Tokyo was on a stage, there was an orchestra or a collection of instruments and people were playing them right alongside of it. ⁓ It felt like a grander experience. And when I saw that, even though the temperature of WordPress back then was like, I don't know what's happening here. ⁓
me just like observing it was going, okay, this is the direction we're moving in. And from the outside looking into this event, it looked like we rented some office in the back corner of some accounting firm. Yeah, the view was great, but it didn't look anything special. But then Miriam told me, and maybe you can just fill in a few of the blanks, that you weren't allowed to take any pictures and like showcase. And she said like, it was actually really nice. There was like some nice.
It was a nice spread, was a nice venue, it looked good. There was like some art stuff that you could interact with or something like albums that you could take with you or something like that. ⁓ And she just said that, yeah, like there it was great, but on the live stream it just looked kind of cheap. And me wanting the best representation of WordPress, that live stream wasn't it. You know, in my opinion. But it was pretty good. know, boots on the ground, was good.
Raquel (08:32)
Yes, actually I could show you guys the vinyl I printed. Yeah, that was a fun little interactive. They just had old vinyl records. I wonder if they were from Amoeba. I feel like, Eric, you would know what I'm referring to when I say Amoeba, but yeah, duh, yeah. But that was fun. got to like, actually I ruined a shirt because you use vinyl paint and I got some on my top or whatever.
Kurt von Ahnen (08:37)
Thank
Eric Karkovack (08:46)
yeah.
Raquel (08:57)
The space was really nice. It was really high end upscale. ⁓ But to your point, there wasn't a stage, you know, and it did look a lot like meetups that I've hosted here in the Valley, like at the Go Daddy new tower. You know, it was similar. will say definitely nicer, Salesforce tower. ⁓ But in there, yeah, it really wasn't much of a stage, but the production itself felt still, you know, state of the word.
And there were some parts of it that I really enjoyed, like the, I call it the Tech Bros program network, but I don't think that's what it's called. It's just the TBPN. Yeah. Yeah. That part was really cool. I, I liked that. And yeah, it was, I mean, yeah, I would say too, it was pretty tame, right? The, the.
Matt Medeiros (09:35)
Yes, yes, yes. Yes, I saw that.
Raquel (09:50)
event itself, there wasn't really anything salacious. I would say even at Word Camp Canada, there was more, there was even some more like insightful words that were used where I didn't really see anything at all at State of the Word.
Matt Medeiros (10:04)
All right, let's keep the predictions rolling. I'm gonna kick it over to Kurt. Do you have a prediction, Kurt? Just pick something out of your own head. 2026, what does WordPress bring us?
Kurt von Ahnen (10:09)
And I just picked something out of my own head, right? ⁓
So I'm looking at a couple of houses that make plugins and how they're starting to form suites that if we're not careful become like little fenced gardens, right? ⁓ I love WP managed ninjas and their products. I use them as an agency, but now they've got like this whole suite and it's kind of forcing people in the agency space to be like, we're a fluent house. Or if you're with...
Adam and his team, you know, you're a shortcut house, right? And so, because shortcut just released that, that CRM tool. And so you've got the CRM, you've got the cart, you've got the, the SEO on their channel, right? So they've got their own SEO product. And I think from an agency perspective, it's almost forcing us into these channels where you make an investment in a certain line or vertical of, of plugin company for the integrations and for the functionality.
And then I feel like, I feel like if we're not careful, it'll stifle us on what's really possible with what we can do, because we'll find our comfort level in that vertical, right? Like they say the riches are in the niches and the fear is that you'll get into that niche and then you'll just be stuck in that spot, right? And then I have another, if the show goes long enough, I have another prediction, but that'll be different.
Matt Medeiros (11:40)
Yeah, let me just unpack that one a little bit. I'm curious on how you see see the fluent is a great example because they have a ton of products. mean, they are able to ⁓ develop and iterate at a breakneck speed. And I was looking at their community plugin or product and I know, I know it's like, it's not just community. also does like courses and stuff like that. So what I'm curious from your perspective as a lifter.
LMS representative user advocate and ⁓ agency developer for it. ⁓ I'm wondering like how you think that impacts, you know, the the plugins that that don't have all these other features but are like really great at courses like Lifter LMS does. And then like you said, if an agency starts using all things fluent, what does does do they start going? Yeah, you know what? Maybe maybe I don't go with the lifter anymore because now I'm all bought in over here. Like how do think that impacts the standalone
highly crafted products.
Kurt von Ahnen (12:37)
That's interesting because I had that direct conversation with Chris Badgett, you know, who owns Lifter LMS and him and I are friends. And so we talk a lot. So I can't disclose like everything, but I can tell you that in working with Chris for the last over half a decade, he doesn't care about competition. He literally doesn't care about competition. He's, I think Lifter LMS has grown in the space enough. it was competing with LearnDash really well.
And then LearnDash just kind of stopped developing new features a while ago. So, and LFTR's kept developing. And so I think it puts them in this unique space where like when WP managed ninjas, know, Jule and his team come out with Fluent Cart, almost instantaneously, they come up with an automatic integration in the LFTR LMS. you know, Fluent community automatically integrates with LFTR LMS. And I think for the plugin companies that have had a product that becomes
I don't want to say ubiquitous in use because lifters not there yet, right? But it's, but it's big enough that people want to be a part of that train rather than Chris and the team trying to struggle to get on other teams. You know what I mean? It's like the, it's like the, the playing field is just a little bit different. It's like the home field advantage. And I personally think it's kind of cool that courses are in the community tool, but I've never used it because I have an awesome tool like lifter LMS at my disposal.
And the integration was automatic and the membership tools in lifter LMS were more, more adoptable. They're more intuitive than the membership tools in these other platforms. And so people that like lifter are going to say, well, I like the membership plat. I like the lip membership. I like the course management tools, you know, all that makes sense. I just need that community element. I just needed a shopping cart that wasn't as heavy or complexes as woo at the moment. And so
I have a feeling that people are be driven that way.
Matt Medeiros (14:32)
Yeah. Eric, any thoughts on that before I kick it to you for your prediction predictions?
Eric Karkovack (14:38)
Yeah, I think it's interesting. mean, there are advantages to having that suite of tools, right? Because one of the problems I've run into over the years is that you're bringing in products from how many different vendors and you want them all to work together. First of all, that's a technical challenge. And then grabbing data.
from those multiple places has always been kind of a pet peeve of mine. For example, I've worked on membership sites that have also used WooCommerce and that have used LearnDash as well. And trying to grab data from all of these different places into one report is like pulling teeth. AI makes it a little easier, but it's still difficult. I think when you have a suite like this, it actually may be...
makes it a little easier to grab that data that you need. So maybe that's just a little different perspective on it. But I can also see like as an agency, yeah, you kind of get siloed into this one ecosystem and it's hard to get out. And what if it gets sold? What if something goes wrong with it? ⁓ Then you're kind of stuck with all this software that may not be as good as what it used to be and you got to start migrating clients over. So it's kind of a calculated risk either way, I guess.
Matt Medeiros (15:51)
Yeah. All right, Eric, let's kick it to you for your prediction. Your your first prediction for 2026.
Eric Karkovack (15:57)
Okay, so I'm gonna go with AI, because that's what we do at the WP Minute. We just talk about AI. That's all we do. AI. But in this particular scenario, I'm...
Matt Medeiros (16:03)
Ha ha ha ha
Eric Karkovack (16:10)
Thinking that a lot of hosting companies are going to kind of battle it out in 2026 over AI powered features. I mean, we're seeing it with GoDaddy, Hostinger has their own. I think that's going to be kind of the next ⁓ way for these companies to kind of differentiate themselves. know, ⁓ and hopefully we're going to have an upcoming episode on the WordPress AI team. But one of the things that they've posted about recently is maybe hosts making an AI platform
available through their service and that would be something that WordPress could hook into. So I think there is going to be a bit of a race in that area so that these companies, know, who's going to have the better AI model? Who's going to be more useful and, you know...
improve workflows and make it easier to use WordPress. ⁓ It could be all of those things inside and outside of WordPress. I think that might be kind of the next big ⁓ hosting war we see.
Matt Medeiros (17:12)
Mm-hmm. Prices will probably go up.
Eric Karkovack (17:15)
yeah. No doubt about it.
Matt Medeiros (17:19)
Yeah, Raquel, did you have a remark on that?
Raquel (17:23)
Well, I mean, I definitely was going to comment on that from a technical side, from a user POV that, you know, a lot more AI. And it's interesting you say that, Eric, because, gosh.
feel like I'm not trying to make any plugs here, but that's a lot of what we're dealing with right now with sourcing all of our speakers and topics for pressconf. And a lot of it is somehow ending up in this hosting world and how it affects WordPress. And I haven't even thought about that part yet. And I was like, damn. So I don't disagree, because AI as it is is like at state of the word.
the AI team talked about how it's almost like cat years or dog years in that like the six months since the team formed, it's felt like six years and how much they got done. And it's just moving so fast. And I feel like it's something we're not even looking at with hosting. And then all of sudden we're gonna be like, there it is. And the prices are increased and okay, what, who did what? So that is super valid. And now my head's spinning.
Matt Medeiros (18:30)
Yeah.
I'm curious like how, like where the, where the battle is won for AI ⁓ and WordPress. Cause the abilities API stuff sounds really interesting. Like, we can, you know, plugin developers and theme authors can hook into this abilities API, which allows your whatever chatbot of choice to like hook up to your, I mean, I know we're months, probably many months away from this happening.
but this whole abilities API thing sounds fun and exciting. But then that just like opens the door to, I don't know, know, Kurt, you were talking about on the agency action podcast. I'm not giving somebody admin access and then not getting paid and then delivering them because they can install plugins. And I know what that snowball effect is. I see the same thing happening for plugin like my day job at Gravity Forms. If all of a sudden you can do whatever you want with your chat bot and Gravity Forms. Now we're what we're going to be on the hook.
to like, well, my AI bot said it should work, know, fix it. And it's like, wait a minute now, like how far are we going with unleashing AI onto WordPress? I mean, theoretically that same thing can happen now, because you can say, hey, Gravity Forms, my developer broke my site, but can you please fix it? You know, and I think we're okay with that because we normally go pretty deep on the support side of things. But if all of a sudden everyone's doing it with ChatGPT,
what does that mean for us and what does that mean for like agency owners that you know you ship the site to somebody and all of a sudden they said hey Kurt I it didn't design my site right and you're like I didn't tell you you could do this
Kurt von Ahnen (20:07)
Yeah. See that's where the contrarian mindset of me comes in. Um, a lot of people are excited about AI. I use AI every day. I just did a lunch and learn for the chamber of commerce on the practical use of AI for business. Like I'm not, I'm not scared of AI, but I don't want average users using AI. I just don't. And so, um, I actually feel like maybe it's not 2026, maybe it's 2027 before it really starts. We start to see it in mass, but I think,
Matt Medeiros (20:25)
Yeah.
Kurt von Ahnen (20:37)
There's a core group, just like we talk about the inner community at WordPress. And then you figure out how many people actually use WordPress, how many people are in the community, right? How many people actually use WordPress? we look at the broad scope of it, I think there's going to be a mass flood away from AI due to AI fatigue and everything getting confused and layered with AI that people are going to be driven to more of an analog, you know, design and publishing standpoint, especially for small business.
Like if I run a dry cleaning business or a coffee shop or something, I don't want AI and all this stuff in there. just want my menu, people to buy the stupid drinks and pick them up at the counter.
Eric Karkovack (21:14)
You know, it's interesting you mentioned that because we were having a discussion on Blue Sky the other day about ⁓ technology that ⁓ teens are into now. And I have a 16 year old daughter, she was very excited to get her first MP3 player the other day that her grandfather bought her. And I'm thinking like, I'm all streaming now, you know, like we, grew up with LPs and then CDs and cassettes and then streaming.
She is, she loves records. She loves this MP3 player. And there was a discussion going on about people, young people, especially kind of going away from this overly complicated tech that just kind of runs our lives now and wanting to get back to something more useful and maybe simple. And I could certainly see people getting AI fatigue and just saying, you know what? I like to better the old way. I don't need this thing.
monitoring everything I do and giving me suggestions I didn't ask for. Maybe people start to, to, to, to, go away from it. I did see some, some comments in a post by the AI team where people were asking, you know, are we going to be able to turn this off? Is there going to be like a function that I can add to my WP config to turn off the abilities API? Cause I don't want clients messing with this and I don't want anyone putting anything that I didn't ⁓ vet in there. So
You know, that makes sense to me.
Kurt von Ahnen (22:45)
To your point, Eric, I work with a really large group of college age kids every week. And I was shocked to find out that they get excited to get mail in the mailbox. Like I check the mail like once a week, begrudgingly, you know, throw away the junk mail, you know, run, run, run and terror from the bills. And I was talking to these kids and I said, what do mean you're excited about mail? That's stupid. And they were like, we grew up
Eric Karkovack (22:55)
Whoa.
Raquel (22:55)
Yeah.
You
Kurt von Ahnen (23:10)
In the internet age, the only time we get mails when it's something cool like Christmas card or a gift or something from grandma, we get excited to see mail and it's just the perception is completely different. And I feel like if we don't take into account the perceptions of the masses that use the WordPress platform, we get too focused on what the inner group is thinking and it becomes this echo chamber of stuff.
Matt Medeiros (23:33)
Yeah. Raquel, you're up. Predictions for 2026.
Raquel (23:39)
Yeah, mean, my predictions are mostly going to be community based as well. But I did have the AI in there that we're just going to see it just continue to blow up. And it looks like we've already talked a lot about what that's going to happen and when it does and how. But very similar. I mean, I definitely was really concerned about the lack of WordCamps. I personally feel like
there's a place for WordCamps and there's a beauty behind WordCamps. And that's coming from somebody who now does an alternative ⁓ WordPress event. But I don't see them continuing. And I'm even now catching wind that...
other communities outside of WordPress are catching on to the fact that word camps are dying and they are looking at that from a capitalistic POV. And so there's this part of me that is like, excuse me. And then there's this other part of me that was like, ⁓ dang, they're not wrong. So that is still one of my predictions is that we're not going to see an increase there.
to further that prediction that we're gonna see more alternative WordPress events. And that one is big for me. I thought starting my business, I'd be able to chill for two years and just be me, just do two, three press comps and then start to scale. And now I'm like, nope, we gotta do things now because it's happening now. And I really very much...
know that I still have the community's best interest in mind and that my bottom line isn't a capitalistic POV. I very much care about this community. And if someone's going to be doing alternative WordPress events, then I'm glad it's me. And I hope others that do do it are like me, where we still have our community's best interests. Any thoughts on that one? Less word camps and more not WordPress sanctioned events happening?
Eric Karkovack (25:48)
That makes me sad a little bit. I've missed the old ⁓ smaller word camps that I grew up kind of on, not grow up, but you know what I mean. I was still an adult at the time, I somewhat, ⁓ but I do miss that. miss, you know, the getting together with the community and I met a lot of cool people that way. ⁓ Maybe it will come back in the form of all these alternative events that are regional.
Raquel (25:52)
Yeah.
WordPress grew up.
Eric Karkovack (26:15)
You know, unfortunately I can't get out to PressConf. I'd love to go out there and see everything. I've heard it's amazing. But you know, maybe there's something on the East Coast that can be done as well. You know, we can shift around. But it is a little bit sad to me because I thought the WordCamp atmosphere was so good and it actually inspired me to go further with WordPress. You know, my first camp was I think...
2009 in Philadelphia and if I hadn't gone to that, I don't know that I'd still be in WordPress today. I think events are important to some degree. No matter who's sponsoring them, no matter what their ⁓ backing is, I think we still need events. Hopefully people like you, Raquel, will continue to fill that void because I think that's important.
Raquel (26:51)
Yeah.
Matt Medeiros (27:07)
Yeah, I I still remember the days of when I used to sell themes and plugins and then going to a WordCamp and talking with Pippin when he owned Easy Digital Downloads and literally being in the hallway with him as he took my feedback and built it into the plugin. I was like, this is amazing. You never get this anywhere else. when I make my prediction about ⁓ funneling it down to one major event,
Raquel (27:20)
Yeah.
Matt Medeiros (27:35)
I'm looking at that. Obviously, it's just my prediction and my thought process of how I think maybe Matt is thinking about reshaping the branding of WordPress. ⁓ I'm going on this gut feeling that Matt thinks I need to reshape the brand and control the narrative of WordPress if I am to continue to grow this thing. We might have our issues with that, but I think that's typical business play. That's just me guessing. Raquel, I'm curious. Who do you...
Like who else should we be paying attention to either on the automatic side or in the community side to see like what's happening with like the planning? Who do you like pay attention to in that on that side of it to go, all right, know, he or she is not doing this thing. I don't see them, you know, collaborating with us. Is there something we should be paying attention to in order to like really feel the, I don't want to say canary in the coal mine, but canary in the coal mine effect.
Raquel (28:32)
Yeah, I think it's a little bit multifaceted. So a couple of key players are Mary, for sure, Mary Hubbard, who's definitely leading a charge there with WordCamps. on paper, from a global scale, WordCamps are increasing. What is so funny? Oh, OK. So in Asia, and so from a non-person, but community, APAC.
Matt Medeiros (28:39)
Yeah.
I said who?
Raquel (29:01)
They're blowing up, you know, and I, you know, after WordCamp Asia and Bangkok, a lot of people's sentiment was like, felt like going to WordCamp San Francisco 2012, 13, 14, you know, where it's like, like WordPress hadn't even peaked, you know, and there was this excitement and it was like at the time that was essentially the only one and only flagship event, you know, and then shortly after it became WordCamp Europe and all that. so watching the Asia community right now, if you're in Slack.
Again, so talking about people to watch, communities to watch, but places to watch is in Slack and the community side. There's the community team. There's also the community events. And so on the event side, you could see the transparency there that you could see every application for any WordPress meetup, every application for any WordPress or WordCamp, and they're all APAC. Just about every single one of them. And then every once in a while, you see like a European or like an African.
Matt Medeiros (29:54)
Mmm.
Raquel (29:59)
centered event, but almost all of them are somewhere in Asia. Now that's a really big, know, APEC itself is like, we're talking like almost two thirds of the whole world, you know, in that sense, to some degree, but it is still very new there, you know, and, and so from us as Westerners, and I include even Australia and Europe in the whole Westerner, you know, sort of POV, it is...
Matt Medeiros (30:12)
Yeah.
Raquel (30:28)
There's something magical, I think, to at least be aware of and hold in the Asia community because I was at the last two where Camp Asia is. I won't be at the Mumbai version this year. But when you're there, you're seeing the most incredible stories and heartfelt emotions around this open source project. it brings you back to when you fell in love.
For me, as a Westerner growing up in America, going to my very first WordCamp in 2012 at WordCamp San Diego blew my mind because they were so open and friendly and I could not believe it. And it's what made me fall in love with the community and the project itself. And so you're in Asia and you hear these stories of people who had not been able to put food on the table for their families and then they discovered open source, particularly WordPress, and they're now feeding their families.
And that's still something, I believe. That's still something to not be so pretentious in our Western selves, you know? And still look at this product and see how much of a game changer on a global scale that it is, you know? So watching the Asian community in particular is a really good indicator of at least where WordPress is going as a whole. I don't really know how that helps us.
from how we bring change here to America, because we're so jaded, including the other Western countries I've mentioned. ⁓ But I think in our jadedness, if we could just take a peek into there and see what they're doing, I think that will bring some perspective that could help.
Matt Medeiros (31:56)
Yeah.
Speaking of family friendly and fun, my prediction, my next prediction for 2026 is the lawsuit is settled and the gloves come off. ⁓ I think that again, I think what's happening behind the scenes is ⁓ automatic does need to, ⁓ which I started to talk about in this year's prediction post and it.
sort of kinda came true with like cutting the fad and doubling down on WordPress. And I mean, we did see that with some layoffs, which is not super exciting or inspirational. But I think once the lawsuit is done, we're going to see no matter which I'm not, I can't predict which way it's gonna go. I don't have a prediction for that. But I think regardless of who wins, if there's even a winner in this thing. ⁓
we'll start to see automatic unfold. What I am presuming is going to be like a bigger marketing push, right? We are the people behind WordPress and then there's WordPress open source over here. And I've been saying that for a long time, but I truly feel that 2026 is the year where once the lawsuit's done, we're going to see an all out push. have no inside knowledge. I think with
Matt investing in, I'm gonna forget his name now for Jetpack, ⁓ Devin, Jesus, that he's invested in Devin and hiring him and bringing him on to lead that product. I think that's going to be the thing that's put in front of every, like the consumer product that automatic starts to say, here's why we're the best. It's this Jetpack thing, come here, experience it. By the way, open source WordPress is over here.
Raquel (33:49)
Devon? Devon?
Eric Karkovack (33:50)
Devon.
Matt Medeiros (34:10)
And then, you know, if my plan plays out, ⁓ come to our automatic day event once a year where we unleash the new version of WordPress and you can find all the cool stuff about WordPress here. So lawsuits done. Anyone want to jump on that grenade? ⁓
Eric Karkovack (34:27)
Ha! My other prediction
was actually the opposite, that they're not going to settle. I just see them so dug in, and they've gone through all of this already, and I feel like, ⁓ to me it feels like neither side is gonna wanna give in. That's just how I'm seeing it. I would love for it to be over like yesterday, because it's just been hanging over everybody for so long, but I even saw a
Matt Medeiros (34:33)
Okay, alright.
Okay?
Eric Karkovack (34:57)
post from Matt Mullenweg the other day, ⁓ somebody, marketing person from WP Engine mentioned something on ⁓ LinkedIn and he reposted it with a comment about, you can guess what it was about. ⁓ I just see this as something that is going to drag on through the year. I hope you're right, I hope I'm wrong because I don't want to see that, but I just feel like if they were going to settle, it was probably going to be this year because...
Matt Medeiros (35:08)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Karkovack (35:26)
of all the costs they're accruing and just, you know, what is it good for at this point? But I almost feel like it's like a battle to the death at this point.
Raquel (35:38)
As someone who's getting a little bit of an incidental inside scoop, I would not be surprised if Matt's prediction is true. ⁓ I feel you, Eric, but as someone who's organizing events and got the front row seat to the fight because of dealing with both companies.
It's not even remotely an issue this year. There's a whole other beast that just entered into the ring that is now the thing to, that is the only thing I'm even concerned with right now. And that partly makes me wonder if Matt's prediction would also come true. Even though everything you're saying, Eric, totally still very much true. And I could still see in like...
⁓ the powers that be deciding, Nope, we're going to fight all the battles, all of them, and we're not going to let go, but there's definitely a new player for sure.
Matt Medeiros (36:39)
Yeah, I don't see WP Engine or Silver Lake above them caring beyond this next year. Like I think it's it was probably just like, all right, let's we got plenty of money and we got plenty of lawyers. Let's just see what happens. And then there's going to be like it's like doesn't even affect, you know, their bottom line with any of this stuff.
Eric Karkovack (37:01)
Weren't they the ones that just bought EA?
Matt Medeiros (37:04)
They are part of it, right? I think. That's a great question. ⁓ Who knows? I mean, there's so many companies getting scooped up.
Eric Karkovack (37:14)
My daughter mentioned that
to me and I'm like, silver, like really? Like wow, they're really in on everything, good for them.
Raquel (37:17)
You're... Wow.
There's definitely been some times I'm like, Silver Lake, is that the Silver Lake?
Matt Medeiros (37:24)
Yeah,
three partners. PIF, Silver Lake, and Affinity Partners for 55 billion on the EA stuff. Yeah, I mean, they're just like WordPress. Who cares?
Raquel (37:32)
noise.
Kurt von Ahnen (37:36)
Thank
Raquel (37:40)
you're cute. You're cute, WordPress.
Matt Medeiros (37:42)
Yeah, yeah, we are important. ⁓ All right, Kurt, let's kick it back to you, your prediction, your other prediction for 2026.
Kurt von Ahnen (37:51)
Do
you want a happy one or a sad one?
Matt Medeiros (37:54)
Let's go happy. Let's go happy.
Kurt von Ahnen (37:56)
Let's go happy.
So ⁓ I get kind of obsessed with different marketing messages and especially with all the podcast stuff that I do, my feed fills up with all kinds of ads because we talk about all kinds of things. ⁓ I've been talking to customers, I've been talking to other agencies, all of this like flooded influencer, like heavy cult-like marketing on things like school.
Passion IO, Alex Hermosy, all these people, they are wicking some people up into like this frenzy of like, I'm going have this online course. I'm going to put it on school. I'll be part of the marketplace. I'm going to have this circle thing and I'm going to become part of their marketplace. I'm going to be on Poti. I'm at this marketplace and everyone's getting all excited and signing up for these things that are hundreds of dollars a month. And I think from a positive perspective, ⁓ again, I told you, this would be my happy one.
Matt Medeiros (38:25)
Mm.
Kurt von Ahnen (38:52)
I think this is going to, you know, as a side effect, drive people back to, they're going to look for options. They're going to say, they promised me I was that passion. I owe commercials ridiculous. If you're not making $50,000 a week, you don't have a business. You know, um, when you listen to that ad as an agency that makes WordPress content for real people, you're like, that doesn't even make sense. But there's people that hear it. And it's like, they sign up for Amway to sell laundry soap, right? It's, like this crazy concept.
So once they pay for five or six months of this, they go, I'm not making any money. I'm going broke. I'm maxing out my third credit card on this nonsense. There's gotta be an easier way or a more clear cut direct way or something with ownership that doesn't cost me, you know, a second payment on my house. And I think that's where people are going to come back to WordPress a little bit in those, in those niches. It's going to be communities. It's going to be courses. It's going to be some kind of like
hybrid social site that they want to build and they're going to try and leverage it for revenue. And I think the people that can help with that are going to see some growth.
Matt Medeiros (40:00)
Yeah. WordPress does really well, I think, in economic challenges, right? Where, like when I started my agency, it was the big financial crisis, 2007 going into 2008. And it was just like, you could pick this thing up and build something with it. And I think what happens is, yeah, like we're...
I don't think we're ever escaping financial crisis for the rest of our lives. Let's just put it that way. Like every year we're going to be saying there's a financial crisis. So we just live with it ⁓ and try to ride whichever wave up and down it's going. But WordPress, and maybe it's just open source and that's why it's so important to have open source stuff, ⁓ is a great fit for ⁓ when the people need to actually hunker down and not look for just like a quick fix.
but they're actually willing to put in some time to learn and understand it, those are the folks that are gonna be able to sustain this, right? They realize like, why am I spending thousands of dollars a month on this piece of software and this guy's trying to upsell me into his own courses to teach me how to do it, and now I'm spending all kinds of money when I can just, you reinvest in WordPress. It's, I would love to talk about like the tug of war of like the simplicity of WordPress and why it doesn't solve that better for people. That's a whole other episode, but.
Any thoughts from the rest of the panel on that prediction? Hearing none, I'll go to Eric. Eric, for your next prediction.
Eric Karkovack (41:28)
You
My next prediction, well, I think we'll go back to AI, because we're the WP Minute and we do AI better than anyone. I'm going to say that some book
Matt Medeiros (41:40)
I see. Hold on, hold
Raquel (41:40)
Is that our new slogan?
Matt Medeiros (41:41)
on. Before you continue,
before you continue, this is why Eric is feeding that statement into the transcript is because he and I have been talking. Why don't we show up more in AI searches? So Eric's doing the right thing and trying to appease the robots who now control all of our traffic. Okay, Eric, continue.
Raquel (41:46)
Disclosure.
Say it a bunch.
Eric Karkovack (42:02)
I love my robot overlords and I thank them for the opportunity to be here today.
But I will say though, ⁓ I think this is the year that somebody comes up with an implementation of AI in WordPress that is not just generating text or images, that it's going to be something actually like more widely appealing.
Raquel (42:07)
Aw.
Eric Karkovack (42:25)
maybe it is something to do with onboarding. ⁓ I think ⁓ when we had Devin Walker on from Jetpack a few weeks back, he mentioned the possibility of using AI in that particular use case ⁓ to help get new Jetpack users onboarded. And I feel like this is the year that somebody's going to do something really cool and creative with it. Jetpack may well be first. ⁓ I don't know what else is going on out there, but I think it's
time that we, you know, everybody's implementing AI, everybody, every plugin author is, it seems to be throwing it onto the product, whether it's useful or not. And I think this may be the year that we see somebody do something a little bit different and just something that gives us that kind of aha moment that it makes our lives a little easier, especially I think new users. They, we're talking about that ease of use thing. We tested GoDaddy's ⁓
arrow WordPress designer tool early in the year and it actually did what it said it was going to do, I think we're going to see bigger and better ⁓ iterations of things like that.
Matt Medeiros (43:38)
I have a comment, but does anybody else want to jump on it first?
So I'm curious, I totally agree. And I think that this is, ⁓ when page builders first came out, freelancers, agency owners were like, my God, now my client isn't going to need me anymore, because they're going to build this thing. They can just go and build this page themselves, or they can just find Elementor and they can do it. ⁓ Which wasn't the case, but there was probably, if there was real data behind this, I wonder how many.
of those potential customers did level up from needing to hire one of us to build the site for them. I mean, probably a small percentage, but a percentage nonetheless. I'm curious how if AI gets as good as it's promised to be, ⁓ how much of that onboarding and that WordPress maintenance intelligence does the average user get where they don't need that monthly maintenance plan from folks like us, right? If your agent
your AI agent is in WordPress going, oh, you need these three updates this month. And by the way, you need these updates because there was a security release for XYZ plugin. Do want me to update these plugins for you? Or, hey, you know those keywords you used in the title of that product page? It's not gonna rank really well in any kind of search term. Let me help you reshape that. Or the images you uploaded were too large. It's gonna make the page load slow. I wonder how much of that erodes the
⁓ Maintenance plans, which is a key word that a lot of folks use, ⁓ So yeah, to me, I agree with you that I think that's gonna happen, because actually WordPress kinda needs it, but how does that impact the rest of us is an unknown to me. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.
Eric Karkovack (45:30)
I think you're still going to need a human intervention at some point. don't know. Kurt, I'm sure you have some good opinions on this. Automated tools are wonderful to a certain degree, but they make mistakes. It's the same reason I don't always turn on auto updates on my WordPress install, because things break. And I want to be there in case something's wrong. I want to actually provide value to my client.
manually review the site and make sure that it works the way it's supposed to so they're not missing out on sales or conversions. So I think those things are, those type of AI implementations are going to help us. ⁓ I think maybe they're more even for the agency owner more than the average user. You know, that maybe they can be tailored. ⁓
to help us get things done and alert us of problems or alert the client of problems so that they can then in turn send us a panicked email that something's broken. You know, I don't know, Kurt, do you have any thoughts on that?
Kurt von Ahnen (46:33)
I have lot of thoughts, Eric. I think that people love the feeling and the empowerment of feeling like they're knowledgeable. But I don't think people in general running some other business have any desire to actually do the work, to actually have follow through, to actually pay attention to the AI notifications. And I think that's why long-term,
Eric Karkovack (46:56)
That's a good point.
Kurt von Ahnen (47:00)
AI is a great tool again for the professional and maybe it does allow some empowerment and knowledge to the creator or the site owner. But I think more than ever, they're going to leverage agencies and freelancers and professionals to manage the product for them so that they can manage their business.
Eric Karkovack (47:19)
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense because...
It almost sounds like more notifications equals more hassle for the site owner, right? If they're constantly getting pinged, hey, you haven't updated to PHP 8.3 yet. What's wrong with you? You know, if they're getting that on a daily basis or whatever, it's going to stress them out, right? They're not going to want to do that themselves. They're going to want to hire us to do that for them so that we are the ones that are annoyed with all the constant chatter from these bots that are probably going to be pinging us every 10 minutes.
Matt Medeiros (47:50)
Ahem.
See, my master plan, Eric, was to get you to record more audio and video so that I could make an Eric Clippy bot that I will vibe code and have pop up on every WordPress site. And you'll be the agent. So keep recording so I so I could clone you. ⁓ Let's go around the horn and throw out some quick ⁓ predictions for 2026 as we almost hit the top of the hour here. I think the biggest thing
Raquel (48:01)
Yeah.
Eric Karkovack (48:01)
Oooh!
⁓ that's gonna scare too many people.
Matt Medeiros (48:23)
For me, I got some crazy ones. I think one awesome motive starts a hosting company.
I have no inside knowledge, but I think that's next. ⁓ I think we see a Presconf Europe.
⁓ I have
no inside knowledge. I have no inside knowledge. ⁓ And let me go with the big one. I think that...
Raquel (48:46)
did you do that? Shut up.
Matt Medeiros (48:57)
⁓
I think automatic buys Beaver Builder.
Eric Karkovack (49:05)
Whoa.
Raquel (49:06)
Did you just make that
one up off the top of your head right now?
Matt Medeiros (49:09)
I'm swinging for the fences for my 2026 predictions in the the the lightning round. Those are those are my three. Awesome motive ⁓ starts a hosting company. Raquel launches Presconf Europe and Automatic buys Beaver Builder. Who wants to jump on rapid fire next? Even if you have just one.
Raquel (49:29)
I'll do rapid fire next. ⁓ It's so funny because I'm like so like Mrs. Positive, they're mostly negative. Less actual word camps and less.
Matt Medeiros (49:37)
Ha ha ha.
Raquel (49:44)
overall WordPress use because I still, especially in the line of work I'm now in, I'm still convincing people about why WordPress is those CMS to use. And I still don't think we've exited the I don't care about data bubble. yeah, so I think less use of WordPress and still less or more apathy toward owning your own data.
Matt Medeiros (50:11)
And do, ⁓ that's a good one. Yeah, I mean, yes. ⁓ Do you actually think the percentage goes down?
Raquel (50:19)
⁓ or even just stable, it just stays stagnant.
Matt Medeiros (50:22)
Just stays flat. Okay,
all right. Kurt, I know you got a couple of them, or one of them.
Kurt von Ahnen (50:28)
Well,
I got one and it's, might be controversial, but I think that, ⁓ etch is going to continue to develop and it's user group is going to continue to expand. And I think as great as it is, it's going to drive a wedge through some of the community with some of the, marketing and conversations that happen around it and its use. So, so that's one of them.
Raquel (50:51)
Well, if we could just be kind,
then that would also help.
Kurt von Ahnen (50:56)
Yeah. ⁓ I also, ⁓ I also echo the sentiment that there'll be less word camps and some more struggles with getting your WordPress meetups to go. Like I think it's great. Devin's got like a sold out one in San Diego, but there's only like four or five that come to mind and in Kansas, right? ⁓ it's going to be harder and harder to fill these meetups and these word camps.
Matt Medeiros (50:57)
You
Raquel (50:58)
It does lie.
Kurt von Ahnen (51:20)
because once you get out of the out of your own personal bubble and you get into the community a little bit, you start to see these fractured comments coming from these other channels. And so my next prediction is that somebody. Raquel Kurt, somebody ⁓ really starts a cohesive kumbaya kind of a channel where we kind of get people to get excited and come together, regardless of the tools of choice.
and just really endorse this open source thing a little bit better because we're allowing too many fractured conversations to happen that look contrarian and adversarial rather than just bringing everybody to a successful result.
Matt Medeiros (52:02)
Eric.
Eric Karkovack (52:04)
I've got two. ⁓ One is that Jetpack will...
Matt Medeiros (52:05)
It better be AI,
man, or you're missing the mark here.
Eric Karkovack (52:08)
⁓ I will
do AI. should give me a chance. The first one is that Jetpack's going to look completely different in a year. ⁓ I think that's what Devon Walker was hired to do, and it's going to be ⁓ a lot different than what we see today. All things to all people, I think, will be probably a little bit narrowed down.
one of my guesses. And the other one is, and this is kind of a bummer, but I see a major privacy slash security incident coming with AI. ⁓
I think it's either going to be national security or international security. It's some awful data privacy revelation. I just see that coming because it just, well, I mean, it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. The dangers that are going on now, ⁓ even the way that people are tricking these models to ⁓ provide...
you know, ⁓ potentially dangerous information. I'm actually just writing something up about this. It to me, it sounds like we're kind of on the on the ledge here of something big, some kind of big scandal. Not sure which company it'll be, but it sounds like to me something like that will come.
Matt Medeiros (53:17)
Yeah.
And you're talking like beyond WordPress, Like this, yeah.
Raquel (53:22)
government.
Eric Karkovack (53:25)
yeah, beyond WordPress, it'll
be like a societal thing, you know? And maybe it gets finally someone to take a look at, you know, some sort of guide rails for all of this, whether it's voluntary or regulatory. You know, I think we're just so much in the Wild West with this right now that, you know, something's going to happen and it's going to impact a lot of people negatively and there's going to be a lot of blowback on it.
Matt Medeiros (53:53)
Yeah.
Eric Karkovack (53:54)
Happy 2026.
Raquel (53:57)
Maybe that will null my prediction about people not caring about data. And so then maybe that would cause everyone to care.
Eric Karkovack (54:02)
It might,
it might. You might have a situation where, you know, people kind of come to the realization that I really don't want Mark Zuckerberg to have my data. I don't want Elon Musk to have my data. I don't want Sam Altman to have my data. I want to have my data. WordPress allows us to do that, right? So maybe that is something that Matt Mullenweg could take to the bank and hammer home because in an age where nobody owns their own anything.
Raquel (54:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Eric Karkovack (54:31)
you know, everything's in a cloud, WordPress is still something that you can lay claim to, you with your data.
Matt Medeiros (54:37)
Yeah. I don't know what Facebook is good for anymore. Speaking of like Zuckerberg and like just like zooming out and looking at like the tech giants and like who's winning in AI and who's winning in hardware and all this other stuff. Like I sit back and go, I don't know what Facebook is doing. I mean, they're generating cash because of their ad platform, which is the same thing that, obviously keeps Google going, ⁓ you know, to a degree. But like, I don't know what Facebook represents in the zeitgeist of technology right now.
So if I had a 2026 prediction for like all tech kind of thing, Facebook takes a major hit in 2026. mean, Instagram props them up. I get it. But I just don't know what the hell anybody wants with Facebook anymore. And I think we're going to see a big hit to open AI. I don't understand what the hell they're doing either in terms of like a tech product. I saw a deal. You get me on the soapbox of AI, Eric. And now it's all done. ⁓ I saw they
Raquel (55:18)
What's up?
You
Here we go.
Matt Medeiros (55:37)
like Disney did a deal with them this morning for like AI generated characters, for a billion dollars. What is a billion, like what's a billion dollars? I feel like ⁓ they're asking for trillions of dollars and Disney's like, we'll give you a billion. I feel like OpenAI is like me trying to get sponsorship for the WP minute, sitting on the corner of the street, dancing in a banana suit going, I'll take anything you give me to get, to keep this thing going. And that's what OpenAI is doing.
Eric Karkovack (55:57)
Hahaha
Matt Medeiros (56:06)
So if I know what I feel like, I can imagine what Sam Altman feels like. So we're gonna see two major hits to Facebook and OpenAI in 2026. All right, I had to get that.
Raquel (56:14)
There's
still lots of boomers and Xers. Sorry, no offense. They love the Facebook. They love it. Eric's the one who's, yeah.
Matt Medeiros (56:17)
I get... What does that mean? Yeah? I never... Yeah, I don't ever use it.
Eric Karkovack (56:23)
I've left it. ⁓
Matt Medeiros (56:28)
I don't ever use it.
Kurt von Ahnen (56:28)
So
I left Facebook when I still lived in California, because nobody uses Facebook, only old people. And then when we moved to Kansas, everybody in this small town was on Facebook. And I had to like revert and go back in time and like, you know, regenerate my, my, my profiles and stuff.
Raquel (56:38)
Wow. Wow.
Eric Karkovack (56:39)
You
Raquel (56:45)
Mmm, it's
very interesting.
Matt Medeiros (56:46)
Yeah.
It's the WP Minute 2026, annual first annual WordPress predictions with the great Raquel, Eric and Kurt. Raquel, where can folks find you to say thanks?
Raquel (57:00)
Raquel Karina almost everywhere. And that's just because I can't get Raquel. Although on Slack, I am at Raquel every Slack instance. So yay.
Matt Medeiros (57:10)
Aside from the Agency Action Podcast, Kurt, you're at A Thousand Other Podcasts. Where else can folks find you to say thanks?
Kurt von Ahnen (57:16)
Manana no mas, so manana no mas, all the socials and then I'm on LinkedIn. I'm the only Kurt Von Ahnen on LinkedIn so when you find me, you know you got me.
Raquel (57:25)
noise.
Matt Medeiros (57:25)
and
Eric.
Eric Karkovack (57:26)
I am probably the only Eric Karkovac on LinkedIn as well, so you could probably find me there, or my business site is karks.com. K-A-R-K-S.
Matt Medeiros (57:29)
The WP minute.
The WPminute.com, the WPminute.com slash subscribe is the number one way to stay connected. Thanks for all of the listeners, readers, viewers, ⁓ respondents, folks in the Slack community, for our lovely sponsors that help keep this ship moving. We really appreciate it. It was a great 2025. We look ahead to a great 2026, regardless of what we said on today's podcast. We'll see you all next year.