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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Martina says, I want to tell you how grateful I am for your podcast. I am a survivor of developmental trauma, neglect, and abuse, and have significant mental health issues as a consequence. I just left a relationship with someone who I think has a dissociative disorder. I did not leave because of his dissociative disorder. I would have loved him forever, but he was abusive and unwilling to get help no matter how patient and reliable I was for him.
Speaker 1:The shame was too deep. Okay. I have to interrupt this and say something because I see it happening online in the online community. And when I reference the online community, I just mean survivors who are online participating. But this comes up a lot in the online community and specifically in groups for loved ones and support people of those with DID.
Speaker 1:It is true that those of us who have been traumatized struggle with relationships because they do not feel safe, because we do not feel safe. Somebody doesn't feel safe, right? But I want to be very, very clear about something. Having DID or any other diagnosis is not an excuse for bad or abusive behavior. Period.
Speaker 1:End of sentence. Let me say that again. Having DID or any other diagnosis is not an excuse for bad or abusive behavior. Okay, let's be clear. This is not the movies.
Speaker 1:This is not Hollywood. This is not a bad representation. This is real people with a real diagnosis. And most of us who have been treated in such a way to end up with such a diagnosis do not want to become what has happened to us. There are times and there are reenactments, which we will talk about in another episode with an interview that's coming up that we have done and you will hear soon, where some of those dynamics can be acted out.
Speaker 1:But it is always our responsibility to be safe with ourselves and with others. Okay? Having a diagnosis of anything is not ever an excuse for bad or abusive behavior. I want to be very clear about that. That's why I said it so many times.
Speaker 1:You guys, it's a really big deal. It's not okay. So good for you for keeping yourself safe and for leaving an unsafe situation. They write, It's been useful for me to learn about trauma and effective therapies for myself, and it's been useful to learn about dissociation to better understand both him and to understand the difference between how he coped, like with addiction, and the approach of a healthy person like you who is willing to get help. Okay.
Speaker 1:That's actually really serious. So I'm not laughing at her. I'm laughing at the idea of me as healthy. I don't know we're there yet, but we're trying. We're working on it.
Speaker 1:Okay. Because there is part of me that thinks if only I loved him better, he would have gotten into treatment. Let me interrupt again. All relationships are both people. Okay?
Speaker 1:You are not responsible for them doing their part of the work of the relationship. Both people invest into a relationship if they want it nurtured to stay alive. So this is not on you. All relationships are both people. Okay?
Speaker 1:They say, hearing you speak, it's so clear that you have a light and a will to thrive that guides you. So thank you for modeling healthfulness. I sought out a therapist who specializes in trauma and attachment disorders, who does EMDR, and who practices polyvagal theory, and I am growing so much. Good for you. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Those are exactly fantastic routes to go. I wouldn't be doing as well in therapy as I am if I hadn't learned so much from Doctor. E's interviews and from the others processing. The episode at the park was particularly amazing. I got chills.
Speaker 1:Keep on keeping on. Thank you so much, and good for you for taking care of yourself and keeping yourself safe. That is everything. Kim and Kate congratulate us on the Plural Association Award. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Kate also says, I made rice porridge the other day, and it made me think of the episodes where eating food by water content was mentioned. That's so true. We still have Sjogren's. We're still dealing with that. It's had some complications lately, actually.
Speaker 1:We eat a lot of rice and a lot of soup and fruits and vegetables, and that's how we roll. So thanks for remembering us. Kara says, I don't even know where to start. You have been so raw, open, and honest that I want to return that open honesty, but it seems like too much to share in an email, but I'll try. First, the reason I found your podcast more than a year ago is now that my best friend told me she had DID.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know what that meant. I couldn't even remember what it stood for, but I really wanted to understand. I looked for various resources to help. I watched The Many Signs of Jane. I found a few books, and I found your podcast.
Speaker 1:I listened to a few episodes, but I didn't really get into it. But a few months ago, I started listening and I couldn't stop. When she told me about her DID, I felt bad that I could never tell, even after knowing all I ever could see was my friend. You know what? That's actually really common.
Speaker 1:That's what the whole covert or overt is about. And most systems, most of the time work really hard to be much more covert and to present that smooth transition on the outside and those consistent things, because that's what keeps us safe. That's how DID works. And there's more about this that we're gonna talk about later, but that's actually very common. There has to be such a high degree of safety and a high degree of different parts feeling safe and relationships with those different parts for them to start to present themselves.
Speaker 1:And at any time there's anything at all that interferes with safety or is a rupture in the relationship, even if it's not intentional or because anyone did anything wrong, it could just be a trigger or something that causes barriers to go up. They will get more covert. I, of course, am speaking as if this applies to all people and everyone is an individual, ironically, with DID. So it's different for everybody. But what I'm saying is it's a very common thing.
Speaker 1:Please do not feel bad about this. Your podcast has helped me understand the many sides of my friend. It has helped us have some very open conversations. I've shared your podcast with her, but she says she's not ready to deal with it. And then she explains why, the circumstances of her friend, which again, when they're going through a lot and safety is an issue, even if it's emotional safety, that makes sense that things are more covert.
Speaker 1:I appreciate your podcast information, its honesty, and raw truth. I'm grateful for how it has helped my relationship with my friend, but I also appreciate how much you've let us get to know the many sides of you. As I was listening, I found myself starting to worry about you when I was listening to episodes from 2019, because obviously being in the middle of a pandemic, I knew what was coming. There were a few episodes that just tore my heart out. I finally caught up and just finished Try Softer.
Speaker 1:What a powerful episode. You guys, it was brutal. As hard as we tried to stay present and focus and deal with 2020, we lost our marbles, you guys, like dropped our basket. Like, I don't know what to tell you. It was brutal.
Speaker 1:There's no getting around it. The last year and a half, probably since February, to be quite honest, things have been dire. I don't know how to tell you how dark and difficult that that has been. And I know it caused a gap in the podcast. People were very gracious about that.
Speaker 1:And I know we have tried hard to find a new therapist and people have been so supportive of that. It's just been difficult. I just wanted you to know that there are people listening who care even when there's nothing I can do besides listen. I just wanted you to know that you matter. I wanted to tell you that what you're doing is important.
Speaker 1:I wanted to say I'm listening. I wanted to tell you that you have helped me survive the good days and the bad days. Pandemics are hard. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I wanted you to know that you have helped me understand and be patient with others.
Speaker 1:You have even taught me a lot about myself, even though I haven't survived anything that could really be called traumatic except this pandemic. This pandemic has not just been traumatic. It is an ongoing trauma where everyone on the planet has their, like, defense system activated and their survival instincts activated. Like, you guys, I cannot explain or stress enough how huge the pandemic and the politics and everything going on are right now. No matter what you think about it, no matter what side of things you're on, the experience of all of this happening is so huge on our brains.
Speaker 1:And our brains don't have the context to know that everything is going to be okay or that we only have so many days until the vaccine or six months until it's our turn or wherever you are in line, like, however that works or what side of you're on politics or whether the capital's gonna be okay or not, the mobs, like, your brain doesn't have the context. Your brain just has the danger signals. And so there's all kinds of physical and emotional and mental struggles happening because this is an ongoing trauma. Like, really is that hard. Exactly what she's saying here.
Speaker 1:She says, thank you everyone for everything. I hope you are able to achieve the healing you want and need. Thank you for sharing your insights and your journey. Thank you so much for the encouragement. We desperately, desperately needed it.
Speaker 1:I can't even tell you. The Vegas system says, Happy New Year to your inside and outside family. We just wanted to continue to express our appreciation for your podcast and all the advocacy work you continue to do. This time, I really want to say I appreciate everything you've shared about your experience with ISSTD. It helped me and the appropriate parts of my system feel a lot safer being a member, even though we're not out as being a therapist with DID with anyone there.
Speaker 1:Okay, can I just tell you, you're not the only one? We are not the only one. Even in the classes we took, there were, like, others. And in the conference, there are others. And in leadership, there are other like, we are not the only ones, you guys.
Speaker 1:This they are good, safe people. I mean, anywhere, there are punks anywhere. Okay? Because people are human, and people are learning, and people are struggling, and people have trauma, and all the things we ourselves are trying to heal. Everyone else is dealing with that too, you guys.
Speaker 1:Right? But for the most part and for my own personal experiences, I am telling you they are amazing and good and safe people who are trying so hard, I cannot tell you how hard, to care for us well. They say, I actually learned about ISSTD from your podcast, and after hearing about it, checked it out and went to a regional conference back when we could still do that. Hey, guess what? Regional conferences have been online a bit, and so that's good news.
Speaker 1:Right? I wish I had been caught up enough on the podcast to know how kind and accepting people there are. I ended up accidentally sitting at a table with all of the presenters and was so scared someone was going to find me out with their DID seeking powers and kick me out of the conference. Okay. I'm laughing at this, not because I am mocking this person, but because I feel that every single moment.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I was super awkward and weird because I was so ashamed and scared. I laugh about it now because it's so funny and absurd. We're all just people. Right? Some of us are just more people than others.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good. Who knows? Maybe when we can have an in person conference again, we'll run into each other. Hearing you talk about being out on the podcast has given me the courage to come out to some friends and a couple of colleagues at work. You know what?
Speaker 1:You are braver than us because we have backtracked all of that. We have shut the doors. The walls are up. We are done. I mean, people can't unknow, but we don't talk about it anymore with anybody.
Speaker 1:Like, people are aware because of our mouth and because of the podcast. So some colleagues know because of the podcast and our friends know because we tried to come out and tell them that everything was such a disaster. We do not talk about DID with anyone anymore, period. Not even in therapy, you guys. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:I'd love to be more out in the future when it's appropriate and use my wisdom and knowledge as I continue to grow to be a part of the movement to end the stigma and help people understand trauma and how to heal it. Yeah, that was like a dream, and I feel like the bubble has popped. I thought that we could explain this. And I think we thought that everyone and us could build their own relationships with our friends and our support people and everything would be okay. But when we tried, like, they were not acknowledged at all.
Speaker 1:And it was like, okay, shut this party down. We will be as we are supposed to be back in the closet, keep things safe, and we're just not gonna go there anymore. Like and all that did, of course, was cause the whole flipping the circles and leaking all over the place, and it's been difficult and frustrating and isolating like what we had almost imagined and almost came true. Oh, stupid pandemic. I'm just gonna blame the pandemic.
Speaker 1:That's safer. Right? Let's just project instead of dissociate. Anyway, happy New Year. May this be your best year yet.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, Vegas system. It can't get much worse. Crystal say, thank you for the campfire episode. Your family is so precious. I laughed out loud at some of the jokes and the kids' responses.
Speaker 1:It's so healing to hear the way you help your children talk about their emotions. You don't shy away from talking about hard things, but also don't shy away from talking about the good. Then listening to Joanna Silberg and hearing the conversations about raising your children was so powerful. It's one thing to hear someone talk about what they do and explain theories, an entirely different thing to see it in action. I also really appreciate hearing a compassionate, caring father.
Speaker 1:You all are doing such powerful work in raising those kids. They are lucky to have you. Oh, you guys, we're trying hard. You have no idea how hard we're trying. We're trying.
Speaker 1:And we mess up a lot. A lot. But you guys, you talk about that. Just like the hard conversations, that's one of them. Hey, I messed up today.
Speaker 1:Here's how I know I messed up. What do you think about it? What do you feel about it? Here's how I felt. Here's what I think.
Speaker 1:I'm really sorry. I own this. Here's how I'm gonna do it differently. Here's how we'll know we're gonna do it differently. How do you think about that?
Speaker 1:How do you feel about that? What do you have to say? Like, listening to each other, talking about it, it's so important. You guys, I mean, if 2020 taught us anything, it's that all relationships have ruptures. Safe relationships repair them.
Speaker 1:The relationships that don't do the repair work disintegrate in the most painful, deepest kind of grieving ways. But if you do the repair work, anything is possible because that is caring for the relationship itself. They say, great job on eliminating screens. Whenever I see a parent whose kids aren't on screens, especially when their kid is acting like a normal kid is supposed to, which is to be seen and heard, I make a point to encourage them and let them know how wonderful it is that their kids aren't on a screen. Oh, thank you so much because that's pretty that's pretty tricksy.
Speaker 1:It's pretty tricksy. Lisa, not my first rodeo. Welcome back, John Mark. I hope you find all you need at your new house and with the new therapist. You all deserve the very best.
Speaker 1:Lisa, thank you for being our cheerleader. I am so grateful you are out there listening. Someone needs to. Hello to all of you. I am working my way through all of your podcast episodes for the second time.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. I can't even imagine that. I don't even do that. Oh my goodness. My first time through, I was oblivious to my own OSDD diagnosis, but I knew I had some dissociative issues going on.
Speaker 1:I'm currently working with a trauma informed therapist who specializes in EMDR and who also does IFS work with me. Oh my goodness, you guys, even after interviewing the guy, we are still not smart enough for IFS. That's internal family systems, if you don't know, and lots of people love it. I'm just not smart enough for it. Oh, I just can't.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm sure it's fantastic. Like, right? There's lots of good things. Okay.
Speaker 1:I just I can't even. In the past week, I have sent her two of your podcasts, and it is highly unusual for me to send her things off the clock because I also struggle to avoid overwhelming my therapist lest I lose her, as you have talked about a lot. Yeah. Well, guys, that worked out well, Denise. Fail.
Speaker 1:Some of us still don't trust her, but some of us still don't trust the few wonderful people we have around us now. Why is that so hard? Like, they're good people, and they are safe people, and they're trying so hard to love you well. And you're like, message is not received. Like, it's like when you send an email and it doesn't go through or when you send a text and it doesn't go through.
Speaker 1:And you're just like, it's 2021. Why is my text not going through? How is that even a thing? That's basically your friends trying to love you. And you're like, did not send.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. We are learning to trust these people after separating ourselves from our family of origin. Good for you if that needed to be done. And it has been goodness beyond measure. My understanding of my history, there are many large gaps in it, is that much of what I experienced happened to me only.
Speaker 1:I have a strong guardian part who protected my siblings. Oh, yes, that is also us. And I can't talk about it right now or at all, but like basically caused this great division and backfired because now, because our brother hates if we talk about any of this, because he's still dissociating. And we've worked really hard on our relationship with him and love him lots, but also, he does not wanna talk about any of these things. I have a strong guardian part who protected my siblings.
Speaker 1:I'm very proud of her for what she has done with her own moral compass, which we did not obtain through modeling our parents growing up. So that is all ours and we will take it. Good for you guys. I'm sorry this is so scattered. There are just many people inside who are dying to tell you all of their excited thoughts.
Speaker 1:I think any of us with DID totally get that. Like, it happens all the time in our head, right? I just have to say to you how thankful I am for you and for all you do in your podcast. I cannot believe the compassion you have, or maybe it is a soul tenderness. Is that how you say it?
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think of the word to describe the awe I feel when I listen to Sasha Reed's everyone's responses to the questions in your communal notebook. Thank you for showing me how to be brave in these ways. Most of your episodes sound pretty foreign right now, so I don't think I was here when we first listened to them. It's weird how we lose time, and this is all really brand new, so I'm struggling to explain it. What I mean to say is that in a sense, it's like I'm discovering a new, the earth shattering podcast you have created.
Speaker 1:I'm continually stunned with the feelings of luck knowing that you let this golden gem of a podcast live in the world for all of us to hear. I wanted to say two things. One, I hope you live forever. And I'm not kidding. You have a lot of raw goodness, and I'm so glad you share it with us.
Speaker 1:And two, I know how hard it is to find trustworthy people in this world, especially those who can bear witness to any stories we wish to tell. Yeah, we're over telling stories, guys. Shut the door and lock it. I want you to know that I am one of those safe people. And even though we will never likely meet, I am sending you good vibes from where I am, and I hope they leave you feeling calmer and more peaceful knowing that there are other good souls like yours out there in the world.
Speaker 1:I too am learning how to be a friend, and I am still very much in the hermit phase. Yes. Where I wish to be left alone, but like you, I'm continually getting better and stronger, and you give me so much hope. It's insane. It's insane.
Speaker 1:That's funny that that's a sentence, but I totally get what she means. Speaking of hope, I hope your podcast turns into a book and then a movie and then a series so I can hear your words in all those different forms. That's a lot of words. That is how understood and connected you make all of us feel. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I wish I can invent a new language just to capture my gratitude for the courage you've demonstrated for all of us. You are the glowing light proof of just how spectacular humanity can be.
Speaker 1:Okay. That's a little bit like when we go out in the mornings to feed the goat and he's like, woo hoo, so happy to see you, and I'm gonna jump on you. He's like, hug a goat. Goats are awesome, you guys. You need to know this.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much seriously for sharing. This email interesting, moving, eye opening, and exciting podcasts you offer. I have spent a lot of time in the past four to six weeks ever since I discovered your podcast, listening to them whenever I find the time. Thank you so much for the exciting interviews with the professional therapists and researchers in the field. I am from Germany.
Speaker 1:I am 57 years old and I have a family with two grown boys in university. They are simply great and cool boys. Aw. And a loving, gentle, supportive husband. That's so sweet.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you have him. He is the second husband, and I also have a full time job in the area of technical training in the European setup. I will write further below just a bit about my personal history in case you are interested. I will also give some feedback. I acknowledge that all of this, also reading emails by listeners, costs a lot of your time and that you have a lot on your plate, which I can hear as you talk about it in your interviews and personal podcasts.
Speaker 1:I honor your work and have just made a donation to make up for the hours I already spent on your side. Oh my goodness, that is so generous and kind of you. For now, I only have one request, which I would also be grateful for a short answer. DID is undisputed in the psychiatric and neuroscientific and clinical world apart from a few who still try to discredit it. However, with very bad and insufficient or also untrue research.
Speaker 1:What bothers me is on the Wikipedia article about DID. The German Wiki article on DID is even worse. If you think I should directly address the ISSTD, I could do that also. You know what? This is not actually about the ISSTD.
Speaker 1:This is about if you know how to write Wiki, just sign in and get it fixed and work on it. Like, it's brutal. They are not responsible for the wiki pages and entirely dependent on volunteers. So if you wanna volunteer to do that, then that would be fantastic. I agree with you.
Speaker 1:They absolutely could be updated. They say, I have been very fascinated and moved by many of your interviews. Christine Forner being the one that speaks most to me. She's awesome. I love her so much.
Speaker 1:But actually, also, the others are very exciting. I have not yet listened to all of them and am very much looking forward to the others as well as new ones. Just a few thoughts for now. After listening to the interviews of Susan Peace Bennett and Christine Forner that maybe can contribute to the discussion, Trauma, extreme violence, and also predatorial and child harming behaviors occur in many more traditional societies, not just the Western ones, and sometimes much more of it. For example, I lived in Africa for six years of my life and observed some scary and traumatizing stuff, especially in the rural and traditional regions, a lot of it involving children.
Speaker 1:While it is true that we in modern societies are too much in the head and therefore often cut from our hearts and souls too much, similar things actually also happen in some of the more tribal societies. Dissociation plays a big role there as well. It is therefore, this is to season peace Bennett's interview, may be more true not to generalize this as traditional societies are always better or kinder or less dissociated, which she did not say in that way, but I am referring to, as traditional tribal societies may not always fare better and sometimes are even worse. We saw this also when we were in Africa and through our experiences there. So I know some of the things that you're referencing, and I think you have a good point.
Speaker 1:I think, however, what's the difference is that nature and living directly in and with nature is giving back a lot of strength to otherwise very traumatized children and young adults in some of the more traditional societies. I think, or I believe nature being an outside a lot makes you also strong and at least to a certain extent can also heal at least parts of the trauma. You feel yourself in nature more, your body and senses, and you feel stronger. Well, let me tell you, because now I live out in the middle of nowhere with a goat for a friend and some chickens that won't leave me alone and a rabbit that doesn't even like me. And so, basically, I am friends with the trees and the wind and some fish who are asleep.
Speaker 1:And so clearly, all of that is working for me. No. I totally agree. It's been very good for our family out here. Very good.
Speaker 1:So in that context, I absolutely get what you're saying. They say, Apart from that, caring and holding your child a lot when it is a very small baby is important, and it is good that we have started these practices again. Another observation in response to what Christine Forner shared is that, yes, women lost out in many ways when agricultural societies generally led to concentration of power as opposed to nomadic societies with much less accumulation of wealth and power in a life closer to nature. However, some of the nomadic societies I have actually been lucky to still get to know from close-up are among the most misogynist that I'm aware of and have been for so long. So I guess also here, it depends on respective nomadic society and that there are more factors at work than just nomadic versus agricultural, just as there have always also been some agricultural societies that were relatively spoken, at least a bit more egalitarian than others.
Speaker 1:Furthermore, also in response to Christine Forner's talk, which I truly loved by the way, it may be good to know that also primates do not just behave protectingly and lovingly towards their next of kin and even less so to others within the group. Small children can get killed. Male gorillas practice infanticide of competitors' offspring, and chimpanzees are the one species apart from humans known to commit genocide, where they may decide to go off and kill all males of another group. Lastly, and this goes for Susan Peace Bennett again, I think, I would argue to differentiate between different subgroups of what entails a Northern European because there actually are some of them quite wide differences there, such as the Finnish people who have until not that long ago and many still lived very close to and with nature. I would furthermore differentiate between individuals and groups also within a region or country.
Speaker 1:Thanks a lot again for all. I hope these thoughts were useful. I will add my personal story. And then they share their personal story, which I so appreciate. They say, I hold you for that.
Speaker 1:Everything will become a lot easier and that your child has her operation and gets well. You are doing amazing work and also on the private level, I deeply admire and honor this. May 2021 be a year of ease and inspiration and health and joy for you and your family, and may your positive journey of healing, growth, and discovery continue. And all of this, of course, indefinitely, not just for this year. Thank you so much for sharing all of that.
Speaker 1:We really appreciate the information and agree with many of those experiences. And to everyone, we are so grateful you are still listening and so grateful for your support and encourage all of us to just keep trying and to be there for each other. We are so grateful for you as we all heal together. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this.