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A show about cameras, creativity, and the weird shit your brains do while you're trying to make something.
Together, we're exploring photography for all levels — asking the silly questions, sharing the expert knowledge, and digging into what it actually takes to grow as a human being and as an artist.
S02 E08 Focus on Making it Yours
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Casey (she/her): I like the idea of a challenge to force me to go finally try some of these things hopefully get a pat on the back and some accolades, 'cause I need my external validation, and then move on
Amy (she/her): Good job. Click treat for you.
Casey (she/her): Yay!
Amy (she/her): Gold star.
Casey (she/her): I'm gonna have to get gold stars to bring to Florida, and then I
Yeah, mate.
Amy (she/her): stars
Casey (she/her): I would love that.
Amy (she/her): I'll just stick them all over you. You have to walk into restaurants wearing gold stars, and they'll be like, "Where, what, what's going on?"
Casey (she/her): I did a good job.
You might think photography's all about the technical stuff, the gear, the settings. Some of it is, and we'll get into it. But the harder part is what your brain and nervous system do the second you try to make something. The overthinking, the voice that swears you're getting it all wrong. Some weeks we're deep in the craft, some weeks we're deep in your head.
Either way, it's less about the camera and more about the person holding it. Welcome to this week's episode of The Focus Trap.
[00:00:55] Do You Need a Photography Style?
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Amy (she/her): One of the big conversations, especially, think it gets talked about more with beginner photographers than with advanced photographers, is this idea of your photo style or your visual voice. it's kind of this big, grand idea that everyone aspires to, talks about,
Annie Leibovitz and Ansel Adams, and all of those big names,
Casey (she/her): Угу
Amy (she/her): you think, "Oh, I need to have a style like that."
And, and I think, I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. to have something that distinctive, and B, the idea that you search it out.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): I think it evolves more organically than that.
Casey (she/her): I think it ignores the evolution of an artist. Like, I would be curious with Annie Leibovitz, Ansel Adams, how long were they a photographer before they kind of got known for that style, or if they fell into that style,
it also takes away from changes in technology, changes in your own taste, it doesn't leave space for evolution of a ongoing, more advanced photographer.
Yeah
Amy (she/her): Yeah, that idea that you have to, that once you've found your style, that's all you can ever do, and oh
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): what if I wanna try something new? Well, I can't 'cause I'm stuck with this is my style now.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): I live in opposite land in a lot of ways and I think I ha- entertained those thoughts early on, and then just kinda went, "I have no idea, f- just fuck it, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do what I do."
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): the idea of changing or evolving doesn't upset me, I don't feel stuck in what I'm doing.
Casey (she/her): for me, I feel really overwhelmed right now 'cause, like, there's two styles in particular that I love. And they're intensely different from each other, and they take all sorts of different skills
And so if I look at the list of shit that I need to learn for both these sty- styles of photography, one of them requires off-camera flash outdoors and, wide-angle lenses and having the dog, six inches from your lens. The other is this, in the forest, moody, landscape-y but with a dog in it kind of vibe.
all of the shit that I need to learn to, quote-unquote, "master" those two styles is such a long list of skills and technique and technology that I just kind of shut down. And so they're like, I'm trying to, remove the pressure of, don't fucking try to build either of those right now. Just go do photos.
build towards that. Like, when I'm with my dog on a hike in the woods, thinking about how do I compose an image that leans more towards that one style. When I'm playing in my backyard, do I drag a flash out there with me and try to figure out how you do f- off-camera flash in bright daylight and get things to work?
Like, I can play with elements of it, but, like, I, I also put a lot of pressure on myself, and so I'm like, "Oh, that's what I want. That's the goal. You suck until you get there."
Amy (she/her): Yeah. my approach has been, like with birds, 'cause I didn't have anyone I could go learn agility photography with.
Casey (she/her): Ja
Amy (she/her): but with birds, when I first got into, to bird photography, I saw s- of Alan, Alan Murphy's photos.
Casey (she/her): mhm。Yeah。
Amy (she/her): Um, and I knew they weren't there yet.
And, and instead of, you know, telling myself I was shit, I'm like, "Okay, that just means I need to get in a workshop with him
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I need to learn from him. I need to, I
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): go to the source
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): how he does this." And it was eye-opening, and part of me, once I figured out how he was doing it all, knew that that level of Preparation wasn't necessarily gonna be something I was gonna emulate, like take back home and do.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): elements of it that I have brought into how I approach looking for birds and looking for the photos I wanna take.
I've taken what I want out of, of his style and incorporated it into my style.if nobody looks at my photos and goes, "Oh, that's an Amy Johnson photo," I don't care. I don't need you to know that I took the photo. Although, it was really interesting. On one workshop, I think we were doing a image review in, one evening. and he pulled up the one I had sent into the group and was like, "Oh, yeah, that's an Amy photo." And I, it kinda took me off guard 'cause I'm like, "I thought it looked, just looked like an Alan Murphy workshop photo." once he started explaining what he was seeing and how he felt like it was different than something he would have shot, I'm like, "Oh, okay." But the way I did it made sense to me, and
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): wasn't thinking about, "I need to shoot this in my style," I was just thinking about,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): I make this, how can I make this a great photo?"
[00:06:01] Karaoke vs. Sampling
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Amy (she/her): But that idea of taking what, what I'm learning from somebody else and then remixing it.
this idea of remixing reminds me of an Instagram reel that I sent you, several months ago, probably when we were in the planning stages for this season. it wasn't talking about photography, it was talking about social media and how trends will pop up Companies will jump on board and literally just copy it, only put in their company and their colors and, and whatever, but otherwise it's basically word for word. so the reel was comparing that to karaoke. versus, uh, the, the social media side of it would be if you take an idea but then you twist it,
into something that is more unique, while still pointing back to the trend, but improving it.
So the flip side of that, of karaoke is sampling, and you think about a DJ,
taking pieces of other people's work and mixing it and, um, creating something totally new
Casey (she/her): Ja
Amy (she/her): And that to me feels authentic, I just kind of little bits and pieces of what I see that I like and then incorporate it into, into my work
Casey (she/her): I really liked that reel when you sent it to me. it took me a minute to, like, process why you sent it to me 'cause it wasn't about photography but then we, talked about it a little bit and I was like, I see what you're saying here. I'm tracking now."
for me, there is a time and a place for karaoke, and, like, in photography, as a beginner, I feel like sometimes I'm doing a little bit of karaoke. one of the photographers I referenced earlier is Kaylee Greer.
she always works with an assistant.
So she's always got Sam with her, who is also a photographer, who's holding the flash a lot of times, who's helping work with the dog.
I, foreseeable future, will always shoot alone, so I'm like, "Okay, what of her techniques do I keep and drop because I don't have a second person? How can I adapt this to being a one-person sh-" You know? And so, like, there's a time and a place for karaoke, especially as a beginner,
But don't stay there, and don't make that yours. Take what you like, take what works, and then move on and build the next thing.
Amy (she/her): Sorry, I'm writing notes so I don't forget things.
Casey (she/her): I can see you furiously scribbling over there
Amy (she/her): You know. the first time I ever did an Alan Murphy workshop, I followed his instructions to the T. Like, I came out of that with photos that looked very much like his, not quite as advanced
I did a photography workshop with Claudio Piccoli, who is known for doing dogs in action. the running through the forest, jumping over the log type
Casey (she/her): Oh yeah. Yep.
Amy (she/her): action in sports,
and he approaches exposure settings very differently than I do. And so because I was there to learn, I followed his instructions for how to set exposure,
Casey (she/her): Mm.
Amy (she/her): got home and was like, "I, I, I get it. I see it, but it's not... If I were to do this again,
Casey (she/her): Yeah。Yeah
Amy (she/her): um, and, uh, not take what he does."
he underexposes compared to how I shoot.
Maybe this should wait for the hot takes, but I'm gonna say it now. I think we've gone too far that direction and for me it's a, a matter of understanding how... is totally a tangent. understanding how the camera files are gonna treat those highlights, and not being as scared of what they look like on the back of your screen Anyway, that's a tangent we will have to save for another time.
Casey (she/her): But I, but I do think it's still kind of relevant to this because this is the sampling thing. Like,
Amy (she/her): Yeah
Casey (she/her): This has come up in, in conversations for us multiple times recently of like, you'll always do it once.
great, you go to the workshop of somebody who teaches a particular style or a particular setting, it's worth doing once, and then take it or leave it. I'm starting to understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, which I don't think I am, um, with the advent of like social media and mirrorless cameras there are a lot of people who see somebody on social media say, "If you shoot portraits underexposed by a couple stops," but they never explain why.
And so then people just start doing it, and they don't understand the ramifications that that's having once they get to post-processing. And so it's not that you can or can't
But understand why you're doing it and how that correlates to what you want your end photo to look like. And I think that's the part of sampling that like we're missing, is we just take someone else's thing at face value off social media. We see a, a, "Oh, I like that style. They said they shoot at, you know, 1.8 and fucking whatever."
All the numbers escape my brain. so like we just throw the same settings on and we're like, "Okay, I did those settings. This should work."
Amy (she/her): it's the same thing with presets.
Casey (she/her): Yeah。
Amy (she/her): there are photographers that sell these preset packs, and then I, if I buy one, which I have, I have a
Casey (she/her): Oh, yeah.
Amy (she/her): Don't use them because I tried them once and went, "That, that's not working for me."
So but it's this idea that you can throw on the exact same, uh, post-processing settings as I use, and your photos will look like mine. there is something missing in that process, and I, continue to be mystified by that idea of buy my presets and your photos will look like mine, because
There is so much, that is assumed how a photo is taken in that whole process. So we could, that could be a whole nother tangent.
Casey (she/her): Uh, uh-huh
Amy (she/her): You were talking about how right now you're doing a lot more, um, karaoke, a lot more copying of, of other things. And that's totally legit.
In
Casey (she/her): mhm。Yeah。Yeah
Amy (she/her): how you figure out what you like and what you don't. Otherwise, you're left there just own devices trying to come up with something out of your brain magically,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): that's hard, and
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): needs to be.
[00:12:17] Figuring Out What You Actually Like
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Amy (she/her): when I'm working on a photo with someone, I'll say, "Okay, go find a similar photo by another photographer that has the look that you are going for." Because I can reverse engineer what's going on in the processing of a photo, and then we can talk about how you can create that then in yours. more often than I would expect, I get pushback or I get, "Well, I don't know what I want it to look like." Well, then what are we doing?
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): I don't know.
if you just want to say to me, "Well, do what you would do," uh, okay, so you want it to look like my style.
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): And, and if that's what you want, that's fine. I can do it. And in fact, I offer that as a, a thing
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): a photo to me and have me edit it the way I would edit it, and give you commentary as I'm doing it, happy to do that.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): My taste, my style is not a substitute for you developing your own.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): so if you want to develop your own, pay attention to things that you see, and figure out what it is you like about it, figure out if there are things you don't like about it. Um, reminded of, there's someone I follow on TikTok that, uh, does haircuts, and They show the, the consultation. clients are encouraged to bring in inspiration photos. And they'll walk through the whole process of, what do you like about this cut? What don't you like about this cut? What's working for what you're doing right now? What's not working? And making sure that we're not just gonna give you, you know, blonde bombshell, when really what you wanted was the cut, not the color,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): it is.
So,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): but walking through that process of, okay, I, I see what inspires you. I see what you like. That gives me an idea of your taste, and now we can talk about how that will mesh with your photos.
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): think the more you do that, the more you go through that process of pulling out the pieces you like,
Casey (she/her): Yeah。Yeah
Amy (she/her): and, um, that's how you create... I wouldn't say a signature, you know, signature look. I think that, that's
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): too much
Casey (she/her): Yeah. I, I was just gonna say, I think there's still, like, there's a happy medium in this conversation of, like, I don't think you have to have a signature look.
But it doesn't mean we're not gonna have taste.
I'm not a huge fan of the Rembrandt lighting. I have set up in my own house and done some of those photos to see what it looks like and to see what it feels like. Will I ever do it again? Probably not, stylistically that's not my choice.
I like to light the shit out of things and have it be super bright, you know? And so I can still have taste, which is going to lean towards having some style, but that doesn't mean I'm locked into just that version.
There was something else you said a second ago. Okay, you go, 'cause I forgot what I was gonna say, and I should've written a note so I wouldn't forget
Amy (she/her): Well, I was gonna say to you, I appreciate that you brought in the I'll try anything once because I had meant to say that,
Casey (she/her): Oh.
Amy (she/her): then I didn't make it to my notepad. So I love that. I love that you brought that
Casey (she/her): Perfect.
Oh, yes. I remember what I was gonna say. Um, something about... I actually forget what you were saying that made me think of this. Oh, when you're learning, how to figure out what you like and don't like. You were saying that thing of, people are like, "Oh, edit my photo," and you're like, "They...
But they don't know what they're going for." I thought it was really cool, um, Unleashed does a monthly edit my photo they put out a photo, and then everybody can download it and do their own edits and submit the edits. I think that's fascinating I look through the edits and I'm like, "Oh, I never would've thought of that crop.
Oh, I do really like that color grading. Oh, that's terrible post-process." Like, it's... instead of me trying to find all these variations out of my own brain, because I'm new to this,
I love seeing 40 other people edit the same photo I think that's such a cool thing.
Amy (she/her): when I was first, doing agility, I used a 70 to 200 millimeter lens all the time because that's all I had. and then I got a, a 300 millimeter and that was life-changing. and I adored that lens. But it also changed my style a bit because now I was looking for things that were farther away, but I was able to get more blur in the background and just it, it changed the way I looked at an agility course. it really was the look that I was going for in agility, just didn't have the tools to do it yet. And so when
Casey (she/her): yeah
Amy (she/her): that, that was a big shift. And then I went to a 400 and that was even a bigger shift. sometimes it's not even a matter of, of seeing someone else's, what they do with a photo, it's get a different tool.
You were talking about the, the wide angle and,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): six inches from the dog, and that's a totally different look
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): taking just a standard, portrait with a 85 millimeter 1.8,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): that. So,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): um, but new tools can be expensive. But
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that's what you need in order to make the shifts that you want,
[00:17:15] Borrowing From Other Kinds of Photography
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Amy (she/her): So one of my favorite ways to remix though is by bringing in what I learned from different genres of photography. So
Casey (she/her): Угу, угу
Amy (she/her): I about my agility photos and about dog portraits the same way I think about landscapes. So I learned landscape composition from Bryan Hansel, I've mentioned that before, and his primary way to construct an image is foreground, middle ground, background, kind of those three layers. And to that point, I had no foreground. his emphasis is on putting something interesting in the foreground so it grounds you, it makes you feel like the, you're actually standing there with me.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): that leads us to the middle ground, which I love doing big bodies of water like Lake Superior and the ocean. And then so that's my middle ground and then the background is hopefully some beautiful sky.
trying to get that idea of, of depth into an agility photo is a challenge, but it's one that I really enjoy. So instead of just taking the dog up close in the weaves, be watching for the, where the, the handler is relative to those weaves. And sometimes I can get, if I make a wider shot, I have dog as my foreground, and then I've got the handler not in focus, but
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): And you can see that interaction, you can see the teamwork without it being about, you know, the handler. It's
Casey (she/her): Yeah。Yeah。
Amy (she/her): in those layers instead of it just being one layer of obstacle and dog.
that has been really fun to play with.
Casey (she/her): That just clicked in my brain. There's a, another pet portrait photographer in my area that I've recently connected with, and I really love her style. She often has the family in the photo with the dog, but, like, the dog is on leash and in the foreground and in focus, and the family is further behind and a little blurry.
And I love that story of like, it's not just the dog, it's the dog and their family, but it's not a family portrait. It's still a dog portrait. The family just happens to be there. And so, like, I didn't realize, I think that's what I was drawn to. it's how impactful those layers are in setting up that story.
Amy (she/her): that kind of depth is, I know you like the clean background, I am drawn to things that have more of that feel of drawing me in.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): um, you know, playing with that depth of field. One of my favorite things about photography is depth of field, and shallow depth of field, because we don't see that way.
Well, I
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): should, clarify that. When I take my glasses off, that's exactly how I see.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Yes
Amy (she/her): The thing right in front of my face is sharp and everything else is super blurry.
Casey (she/her): Jo.
Amy (she/her): normal, standard 20/20 vision, you know,
Casey (she/her): Ja
Amy (she/her): Everything's in focus, and yes, we are looking at a certain thing, but we're not...
Nothing's blurring, it's just that we're not directly looking at it.
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): photography has this, th- this lovely way of drawing attention to something with focus that we can't naturally do, and I just... That has always been something that I've been drawn to.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): Give me a good shallow depth of field photo, Yeah.
Casey (she/her): Yeah. I think about like Kaylee Greer is very different vibe. Like it's, all in focus, but it gives us this like comical view of dogs. And like in a way when I see her photos, like that's how I see my dogs in my head
I know that's not what they actually look like, but like that's what they feel like to me. And so I love Photography getting to show us life in a different way than we get to see it on like the day-to-day.
Amy (she/her): the idea that photography is accurate is foolish.
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): manipulating the scene in some way, even by, what you are including in the frame and what you're not including in the frame. You're telling us a story about what you are seeing and what you're experiencing,
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): that is, you know, manipulated by what
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): in the frame.
And then there's the whole how are you arranging the things that are in the frame, we like to think that photography's really accurate, and it's really not
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): we've made so many choices
Casey (she/her): yeah, that reminds me of,I'm 99% sure it was you a while back was sharing some photos that came out of some political events, and they're photojournalism, But you started pointing out how they set up the photo and like who all was in the photo and what you were seeing of them.
It's all of these other little things that are happening or all these other little people we're choosing to focus on for a moment. It was just really eye-opening to me and really interesting of how true the photo is, but also how much story is in the choices they're making in that photo.
Amy (she/her): Yes. Yes. Which of course comes back to intentionality, which is what we talked
Casey (she/her): Yeah。Yeah。
Amy (she/her): That's all about the psychology of
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): and telling us things without telling us things.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): and that's, that's what I love about both taking photos and, and post-processing, is I can influence the way you view a photo, even if you don't really realize that you're being
Casey (she/her): Oh yeah。
Amy (she/her): way.
it's such an interesting process to help people understand how to manipulate their photos so that people look at them the way they want them to look at them.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:22:47] The Sliders Won’t Find the Story for You
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Casey (she/her): The story that we're trying to tell, the emotion that we're trying to elicit. It's interesting 'cause my brain is quickly, like, scanning through the catalog of, photography shit that I watch on social media, and, nobody's talking about that. not directly. I watch these videos of, people that'll do, "Here's how I edited this bird photo," and it's just like radial gradient, linear gradient, mask, this setting, this setting.
And it's, like, kind of interesting to watch, but why the giant radial gradient? Why are we darkening this section of the photo? We're trying to drive everything to the bird, the face of the dog, when newer photographers are coming to you,
there's this like, "Well, there's a big bright spot here, and our brains go to bright spots first. Is that where you want people looking first?" And they're like, "Oh, no." Great. How do we change that, we're not talking about that layer of it.
Amy (she/her): this is one of those things where YouTube tutorials have a limit.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): and even, you know, online courses have a limit. They tell you how to move the sliders. This does this.
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): when I took a Lightroom class for the first time, that's kinda where my head was, I just need to understand what all the sliders do, and immediately Brian launches into, "What do you wanna emphasize? What story are you trying to tell?"
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): at my photos and went, no fucking clue. I have no idea."
It's just a picture of a lighthouse and a plain blue sky.
Casey (she/her): Yeah。
Amy (she/her): going through that class, and yes, I did learn what the sliders affected and all that. But coming home with a realization that there's so much more to it,
Casey (she/her): in writing, you need to understand a verb, an adjective, a pronoun. I'm like, what are the parts of language? You un- you have to under- a preposition. I'll never understand how commas work.
That is the downfall of my writing. I will own that right now.
Amy (she/her): Oxford commas for the win.
Casey (she/her): Absolutely yes, Team Oxford comma.
Amy (she/her): Yes
Casey (she/her): I will own that one.That is the only use of a comma that I fully understand and will stand behind. I either use too many or not enough. There's no in between. how you even structure a sentence impacts the tension that you create in that paragraph
you wanna understand how the sliders work so that you can use them to build your story. But as you're saying this, and I realize to some extent 100% guilty of this right now, I'm thinking the sliders will figure out the story for me, not I know the story, how do I accentuate it? How do I bring it to life with the post-processing?
Amy (she/her): That's super interesting. I hadn't really thought about it in those terms. knowing the sliders will automatically tell me what I need to do to the photo.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): And yeah, that's, that's how most people come to post-processing. So there's the, the stage of what do you want the photo to look like, and then the next piece of that, the connective piece to the software itself is what tool within the software is going to cause that thing to happen in your photo.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): you want to lighten up the dog's face, what tool can you use? And it's not one answer. Like, there's multiple tools, especially if you get into Photoshop. Like, there's 25 million ways you can do one thing. But you need to know at least one
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): and understand how it works so that then when you decide I want more light on the dog's face, oh, I know a tool that can make more light on the dog's face. I'm going to use that tool to put more light on the dog's face. So it's this whole series of, actions that have to happen. I have to understand the software, I have to know what I want my photo to look like, and then I have to know what tool is going to make that happen. it's not just one, because there's multiple changes that you wanna make to a photo.
So now I need to know, you know, all sorts of different things,
it's so much more of a complicated process than, well, here's a Lightroom tutorial, um, on YouTube.
Casey (she/her): Right. Yeah. And, uh,
Amy (she/her): Great
Casey (she/her): been guilty of this. I'm like, "Oh, here's a nice picture of my dog. Now how can I make it kind of dramatic and moody 'cause it's in the woods, it's in the trees, using Lightroom, Photoshop," versus like, "Let's build a better photo in camera and make sure the elements of the story are there, and then we can fine-tune it."
using the analogy of understanding the parts of language to write is I'm not even outlining the story, I'm just like slapping some shit on paper and like going straight to edits to fix it all, versus like take a step back, outline the story, figure out what you're doing, take that shot, and then go somewhere with it
Hmm.
Amy (she/her): the intentionality. That's the, things don't just magically appear because you think you want a nice portrait of your dog. whether or not you have a final finished image in your head, and of course,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that means literally a finished image in my head. Um, but whether you have that or just this concept of I want a of my dog in the woods,
you have to have enough of an idea to, to start
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
The photo I brought to you recently where like, there, there's just no blur in the background and I'm like, I mean, technically I know how to make it blurry in Photoshop, but also that doesn't look as good as just, learning the technique I need to know to achieve that in the beginning
Amy (she/her): fake blur is
Casey (she/her): Yeah. Yeah.
Amy (she/her): of things you can do to an image that don't look fake,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): But there is something about fake blur, so yeah, you gotta get at
Casey (she/her): I'm not gonna sneak that past you
Amy (she/her): Uh, no. Probably not, 'cause it just, it, there is something about it.
It can't blur like an actual lens does. I d- I don't know what it is. It's gotten better over the years, I will give you
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): I think what Photoshop doesn't do well yet and maybe never will is
that transition from sharp to blurry is
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): most of the problems fall
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): do that well It can make something look blurry and I might buy it but if that transition doesn't look natural from what's sharp to what's blurry that's where I can pick that out of a lineup any day of the week
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I think that's where where it just doesn't work So
Casey (she/her): No, that makes sense.
Amy (she/her): at the moment
Casey (she/her): Eh, that makes sense, yeah.
so I think a thing that comes up for me, when does imitation stop being practice and start becoming a substitute for making decisions?
Amy (she/her): I don't know what someone's intent is if I'm not working with them So if someone is copying another photographer's style and that's all they're ever doing maybe that's enough for them Maybe that's what they like it it'd be one thing if they were trying to say that they came up with the style and that there was something u unique and interesting and and they
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): but I don't see photographers doing that if someone's coming to me though and all they wanna do is copy like let's say Kayla Greer's style if that's all you did was get to the level of copying her exactly I at some point we would wanna have a conversation about this is still straight up just karaoke Can
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): find some ways to push it a little bit not make it more extreme but make it more you what are the details you like What are the specifics like the haircut thing what's working for you with this and what's maybe not working What do you
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): and what maybe doesn't feel like it matches you and your personality
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): so in a coaching situation I can push on that and work through it I think about the students that I have that still feel like they're borrowing my sense of taste and my opinion about a photo when really it's time for them to offer their own and say This is what I want my photos to look like
my taste is not what um what your photo should look like Your photo should look like yours
Casey (she/her): That's an interesting, like... I mean, I, I guess we have dabbled around this conversation of, when do you just say, "I like this style"?
I know there are people who just don't like my studio style with the plain backgrounds. Okay, cool. Don't hire me. I've got another recommendation for you in the Richmond area. there is that, like, when do you own this is what I like versus this is what I'm trying to learn versus "I don't like this photo, but it matches the brief."
if you're working on a competition, you're working on commercial work, you have a brief that you have to follow, like, eh, your opinion kind of doesn't matter. It doesn't meet the brief. You know?
Amy (she/her): that falls into that karaoke idea
it also is that I'll try anything once
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): if you've never done this style you may not like it but you can't say you don't like it until you've actually tried it and given it a fair fair shot So
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): I do apply this to food I'm a picky eater and
but I do there are moments where I I will say I will try anything once So I don't like salmon but I have tried it and I tried it in Alaska and it had been swimming like f a few hours earlier So
Casey (she/her): That's the way to do it.
Amy (she/her): good Alaskan salmon,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): don't like it. Same for sushi. I tried it, and I tried it in Southern California, so I know I've tried actual good sushi,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): just grocery store in Minnesota.
Casey (she/her): Yeah, no.
Amy (she/her): as fuck.
Casey (she/her): Yep
Amy (she/her): so I, I will try most things once. Um, but I'm still allowed to say I don't like it after
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that,
challenges like that are intended to pull you out of your comfort zone and make you try new things, and that's why I think they're fantastic. Um, and so you may get to the end of that challenge and go, "I don't like this," that just means you don't have to do it again.
It doesn't mean you
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): it the first time. taking out what we don't like is just as important as deciding what we do like
Casey (she/her): I am eyeballing the Unleashed stuff for next year I like a brief because then I don't have to try to figure out what to take a photo... it's the karaoke thing. Like, I'm mimicking other people's work right now to figure out what works for me, what I like, how to do this technique, blah, blah, blah.
Great. Here's a challenge. I know one of them has to do with water. Like, I have yet to do a photo of the dogs in water because I haven't made the time for it.
Like, there's so many steps to it that I'm just like, "Meh, nope." But I like the idea of a challenge to like force me to go finally try some of these things and learn from them, take what I want, get rid of the rest, you know, hopefully get a pat on the back and some accolades, 'cause I need my external validation, and then move on
Amy (she/her): Good job. Click treat for you.
Casey (she/her): Yay!
Amy (she/her): Gold star.
Casey (she/her): I'm gonna have to get gold stars to bring to Florida, and then I
Yeah, mate.
Amy (she/her): stars
Casey (she/her): I would love that.
Amy (she/her): we're doing bird photos.
Casey (she/her): That would be great.
Amy (she/her): I'll just stick them all over you. You have to walk into restaurants wearing gold stars, and they'll be like, "What the fuck are you doing here?" Or "Where, what, what's going on?"
And I'll, and then you can explain
Casey (she/her): I did a good job.
Amy (she/her): stars.
Casey (she/her): I did a good job.
Oh, shit
[00:34:16] When Karaoke Feels Safer
---
Amy (she/her): Is there any nervous system stuff in here? Like, what's, what's the nervous system angle on this? Since that's your thing
Casey (she/her): Right. I think what the nervous system in this is, comes down to, self-trust, exploration, comfort. So it's not directly like a regulated, dysregulated kind of nervous system conversation, but that, willingness to experiment, willing to try everything once, and not judge yourself for not liking something, or liking it but being terrible at it and needing to spend more time with it.
Or, you know, there's so many of these s- levels of it, and no right or wrong answer, but so much of the conversation around photography comes with a right or wrong answer. So, like, do you wanna focus more on how you do things in camera? Do you wanna spend less time in post-processing? Do you fucking love Photoshop and you wanna learn how to do all the cool things in Photoshop with a mediocre pho- Like, I think a lot of it comes back to being able to listen to yourself and explore for yourself without judgment.
That's the one for, that's the one, I mean, honestly, that's been the big one for me, is like right now there, there is an element of I have high expectations of myself, and I'm hard on myself, and I will judge the shit out of myself. And so it makes me really uncomfortable to, bring you that photo of Mika up on the rock,
that photo came down to a moment of I don't know what I don't know, which is a very vulnerable spot to be, but I think more people need to learn to be in that spot because photography has so many elements.
there's, composition and lighting and all these details, and how the equipment impacts all of that. There's so much shit to learn that, like, being able to be vulnerable and reach out to somebody, whether that is a Facebook community, which it's its own bunch of landmines, but if that's your vibe.
Amy (she/her): show.
Casey (she/her): Yeah, right.
Amy (she/her): Not,
Casey (she/her): That...
Amy (she/her): I would rather you go watch a YouTube tutorial than join a Facebook group. I will just say that
Casey (she/her): I know how you feel about Facebook groups. Or better yet,hire Amy.
I think a lot of people get stuck in karaoke because it's safer than learning how to start to sample and,
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): on your own.
I think that's...
Amy (she/her): I mean, I
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): is
Casey (she/her): I do too.
Amy (she/her): freaking amazing metaphor. Karaoke versus sampling.
I'm gonna start using that language more. So
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): we're gonna wrap up by being a little salesy,
I am starting a small group, for dog sport photographers specifically. if you click the link in the show notes it'll take you to school, and if you join at the VIP level, that is for dog sports photographers only, like working, you are actively involved in doing dog sports, for money.
the reason why this is especially exciting is Casey, you are gonna be involved in this because there's
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): piece to all
Casey (she/her): Yes
Amy (she/her): Running a business and burnout, and I want that to be a part of the conversation. I don't wanna treat it as two separate things. So we're gonna talk about, business things, but we're also gonna talk about how do we make sure we're taking care of ourselves? How do we regulate our nervous system? How do we get out of burnout if we're already there?
Casey (she/her): Угу
Amy (she/her): so it's, I'm really excited about it, and it's gonna start really small.
But the only way to get to Casey is if you're at the, the dog sport level. So,
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): I'm
Casey (she/her): I love it.
Amy (she/her): Casey.
Casey (she/her): I don't mind being gate kept, that's great. I love that you're bringing the nervous system side. This is the work you and I have been doing in your business for a couple years of how do you manage your energy the day of an event?
How do you deal with the couple of days aftermath from an event? How do you deal with a client who is struggling to download their photos, and you wanna tear your hair out? Amy can help you with all of the, like, business-y side of that, and then I'll be there to help with the nervous system and boundaries and things like that.
Amy (she/her): through the end of 2026, if you join at the premium level, which is the next level down, and you fill out the application, 'cause you do have to apply, I'm not just taking anybody. and then if you're accepted, then you'll get bumped up to the VIP level for the price of premium, which is literally half off. So premium is 49 a month. VIP is 99 a month. So come and join at half price. let's talk about your business and talk about your nervous system, so.
Casey (she/her): Hell yeah.
All right, that's a wrap on this one. If you haven't subscribed yet, go do that wherever you're listening. It's the easiest way to make sure that you catch every episode, and then come follow us on the socials. We're The Focus Trap on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all of it. If something today made you go, "Wait, that's me," or there's a question you want us to take on, send us an email.
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