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Hosted by Jack Pavia & Romney Donald, Community Ties dives into conversations with people who have vision, drive, and passion, and choose to invest it in Norwalk. Presented by Nancy on Norwalk, the podcast looks to highlight the stories of people, businesses, and organizations in Norwalk.
Welcome to Community Ties, a
Nancy on Norwalk podcast.
I'm your host, Jack Pavia.
I'm a student at American
University and passionate
advocate for thriving towns and
cities.
I love nothing more than talking
to people who care about their
community and seek to lift it
up.
Using the platform of this show,
I'm going to facilitate
conversations with people who
have vision, drive, and passion
and choose to invest it in
Norwalk.
By conducting this dialogue, I
hope to search for truth and
meaning in our city and the
people who drive it.
A big thank you to the fine
people at Nancy on Norwalk who
worked closely with me to get
this podcast up and running.
With that being said, let's
begin.
The Norwalk River Valley Trail,
per their website, will be the
longest trail in Fairfield
County.
When complete, it will spend 30
miles from Calf Pasture Beach in
Norwalk to Rogers Park in
Danbury, allowing people of all
ages to walk, run and bike along
beautiful Connecticut scenery.
At present day, there are
roughly 13 miles complete and
different parts of what the
completed trail will be.
A few miles of Shared Rd. by the
beach.
A few miles of paved trail
through Norwalk's urban core.
A few miles of stone dust trail
through Wilton's stunning tree
canopy.
I wanted to have on two members
of the Norwalk River Valley
Trail's leadership team to ask
them not only about the process
of making the trail happen, but
what drew them to this work and
what they think it means to have
pedestrian and bike access
within our towns, cities and
natural environments.
In addition, I was looking to
get some perspective on what it
means to navigate bureaucracy in
the 21st century and how we can
create a country that builds.
Again, I want to sincerely thank
Emily Burniman and Andrea
Gartner for coming down to
record with us.
I hope you enjoy our
conversation.
Andrea and Emily, thank you guys
so much for coming on.
I want to start the episode by
sort of asking you guys about
your background.
What experiences in your life,
either personal or professional,
made you sympathetic to the idea
of the Norwalk River Valley
Trail and, and sort of started
that interest and, and got you
involved.
Andrea, why don't we start with
you?
Sure, sure.
I think my my involvement is
pretty straightforward.
I was hired 3 1/2 years ago as
the first full time executive
director.
And at the time when I saw the
the the job listing for the
executive director of the NRVT,
I immediately saw it and thought
this is my job.
And so I applied and in January
of 2023 I started.
And I think it's really a
melding of past experiences that
I have and being involved in
community projects, but also
regional projects.
Just me as a person.
I like to get involved in
community initiatives wherever
I've landed.
In the past I've I have been
involved.
When I was married and living in
Ridgefield, CT and raising my
family.
I was a founding director of the
Ridgefield Playhouse.
I was also involved in one of
the founding directors of the
Richfield Historic Society.
I was a 15 years a Historic
District Commissioner and so I
just wherever I land, I like to
get involved.
In 2010 I moved to Danbury and
became a downtown district
manager.
So city center Danbury is the
downtown special services
district.
I did that for eight years.
That required interfacing with
community leaders, with
municipal leaders.
That was quasi governmental.
So I got introduced to a
different, not just nonprofit
structure, but also municipal
structure.
And after that job, I was a
small business owner for a short
time and then landed the job
with the NRVT.
So I really appreciate it's it's
regional influence.
It allows me to advocate, reach
out to elected officials.
I get to work with engineers, I
get to walk in the woods a lot.
And continuing to cultivate
donors because it is through a
lot of private people having
giving of their own
contributions that make the NRVT
possible.
And, you know, grant writing.
There's just a lot to do and
meet great people like Emily,
get to recruit them to our board
of directors and really think
about the future of getting this
project complete.
So you said you grew up around
here.
I did.
So I, I think anyone who's lived
in this area for decades and
decades has heard of the Super 7
Highway project.
And my parents actually landed
in the greater Danbury area
because my father at the time
got a job with Perk and Elmer
that was a really major employer
based in Norwalk.
And the realtor told him that
don't you worry, your commute
will take 20 minutes because
Super 7's coming.
And that was in 1964 and that
was when I was two days old.
So I also do love sort of the
circular, you know, it just
comes around full circle that
that was how my parents landed
in the area.
And then as I was growing up, my
best friend in the neighborhood,
her dad was an activist against
the project.
And at, you know, 11-12, we were
just young, you know, tweens,
teenagers.
He would take us along for these
outreach events or going door to
door with information and
petition.
So I think that's where I kind
of got my early activists energy
from.
So yeah, that's it.
Goes back a while.
You mentioned before we started
recording that you went to
Georgetown.
So you left and you came back
for a certain number of years.
Were there any towns or cities
that that you saw that you just
said, OK, these amenities, these
perhaps trails, we, we've got to
have this back home.
Yeah.
So when I one of the reasons
when I saw that job description
is because my parents were both
from Germany and as the oldest
sibling or the oldest children
of I got sent over every summer
from the time I was like 10 to
my where my father grew up in
the Black Forest.
And that beautiful area of the
world has all these connecting
trails.
Most of them are stone dust or
asphalt.
And they go from the smallest
villages where you can pick up a
streetcar to get to a larger
train station or just connect by
trails.
So part of my upbringing in the
summer was these weekend days
where the whole family would get
together.
And it's called Von Dern in
German.
And it's basically you spend the
whole day walking from place to
place just to experience the
outside, you know, be with
family and friends, grab a good
meal.
And that's the end.
Yeah.
So I so culturally like that's
really, I knew exactly what what
this trail means like in
connecting communities.
Yeah, I just came back from
studying abroad in the
Netherlands in the spring and it
really is just a whole different
attitude about public space and
or just the physical layout of a
city or town being for social
interaction and sort of being
engineered to bring people
together instead of purely to
carry you from point A to point
B.
Yeah, more people centric than
auto centric.
We're we're a bit auto centric
here.
Emily, I'd love to hear about
your personal story as well.
Yeah.
Well, so for me, I also grew up
in the area.
I was born in Wilton and I grew
up on not Hill Rd.
And I'm almost a little ashamed
to say that like, I knew of
Merwin Meadows, I knew some of
the parks in the area, but I
rarely growing up, had used the
NRVT at that time in the 90s.
My daddy's work brought us to
London for a couple years.
So being in the city there was
very different coming back,
though.
I, I, you know, moved to Norwalk
about four years ago after
having gone to school in DC as
well.
And I've, I found that, you
know, being in Norwalk, I, I
kind of wandered into the NRVTI,
would walk down around the
Maritime Aquarium and there was
this beautiful path, the oyster
shell.
And I would use that all the
time only to realize that it was
part of a greater network
connecting not only where I was
in Norwalk, but where I had
grown up in Wilton all the way
up to Danbury.
So I kind of like happened upon
it on a walk.
So that was a pleasant surprise
to me to discover that there was
all of this, you know, the Super
7 project and and work that had
been going on for, you know,
years before.
I really just wandered in and
got involved.
And I think the way that I
connected with the NRVT was
through, I want to say Tanner
Thompson, who had introduced me
to Charlie and Andrea and we
worked together on the Mutt
Strut event in Matthews Park,
which was a lot of fun.
So from there I just, I kept
being involved because I kept
using the trail and it was
really a huge resource for me.
I have a dog as well, so I would
walk my dog along the trail.
But I think what inspired me to
even get into that mindset of
wanting a more walkable and
accessible and bikeable
community was my time in DC
without a car during college.
So I was heavily dependent on
public transportation, using the
metro, using the bus.
There was this beautiful bike
trail my my roommate shout out
to Ava Laser.
She had helped me find a bicycle
and I once I got the bike.
I still have the bike today, and
it's the bike I used to bike
around Norwalk, but she had
shown me the Custis Trail.
So we had a house in Arlington,
VA and we could bike all the way
into the city of DC from
Arlington.
And I would do that all the
time.
So that's really kind of my back
story on how I got involved in
wanting more bikeable, walkable
communities.
But growing up in Wilton
originally, you didn't really
see that.
It was very much, you know, kind
of cutthroat driving and not
having a car.
I meant not getting around or
needing to tap into my parents
or friends or friends of parents
to be able to go places.
So he's seeing in Wilton now
that we have this development of
the trail is really, you know,
an opportunity for kids.
And especially looking back, you
know, reflecting on my
experience, to have that asset,
to be able to get around town.
So it's a really, you know, I
think it's an important mission
and it's really good to see it
spreading and like Andrea said,
connecting communities.
So this is an audio podcast, but
I do notice the Bike Norwalk
shirt.
Can you you're the chair of the
Norwalk Bike Walk Commission as
well.
Can you tell me how your work
there sort of intertwines with
what were you're working towards
with the Norwalk River Valley
Trail?
Definitely.
I think the NRV TS mission is to
create this accessible, you
know, safe resource for people
to get off streets and be able
to safely walk or bike and
enjoy, you know, the city of
Norwalk and the as currently
serving chair of the Bike Walk
Commission, our goal is also to
promote walkable, bikeable
infrastructure for the city.
And Norwalk is especially a
challenge because it is a
growing city.
So there is a lot of
infrastructure demand and needs
for not only, you know, walking
and biking access, but cars and
parking.
So there's a kind of constant
balance that needs to be up
kept.
So the NRVT going through the
city of Norwalk is definitely
something that I'm passionate
about.
Being able to really promote and
support the trail and trail
connectivity between towns and
cities is really critical to
connecting communities.
So on your website there is a
very handy timeline that begins
all the way back in 1979.
It says Norwalk River Master
Plan study introduced the
concept of a multi use
waterfront trail surrounding
Norwalk Harbor commissioned by
the Norwalk Redevelopment
Agency.
Andrea, maybe you can start with
this one.
I'd love some like context on
that study and how the original
idea of the Norwalk River Valley
Trail was sort of cooked up.
So just provide that.
History for me, I can provide
you what I know and a lot of
this we have a a wonderful
Advisory Council member, Jim
Snedeker, who is part of early
efforts.
He was a Wilton resident and
initially was involved, I think
along like the Merritt Pkwy
Conservation Commission or
something like that.
And this project that was called
Super 7 was originated like I
mentioned in before the 60s,
right?
And the state initiated this
project and started to acquire
land for this highway that would
connect Norwalk to Danbury along
the Route 7 corridor and then
potentially continue on to New
New Milford to Kent,
Connecticut.
And I think the ultimate vision
was also all the way up to North
Adams, like into the Berkshires
in in Massachusetts.
And so the state started to
acquire land often by eminent
domain, forcing people out of
their residences in mostly
Wilton, Ridgefield and Reading.
And and this project in this
undertaking really came about
prior to a lot of federal
oversight on environmental
impact.
So in 1972, the EPA was
established on a federal level
and with EPA standards now kind
of requirement, this project
faced a lot of a lot of pushback
because the that the terminus in
Danbury, it would impact
watershed and and drinking water
supplies.
So there was a community and
sort of citizen effort to push
back against this project.
And so I think even before the
state legislated that all the
land it had acquired in this
project, which was in 2010.
So from 1979 to 2010, I mean,
that's 30 years of, I'm sorry,
that's 20 years of more, you
know, continuing advocacy to not
have this project as well as
maybe the state measuring
whether or not they needed this.
And that 1979 start is really
that initial study to show that
there could be an alternate
solution to creating
connectivity rather than the
superhighway.
The ball more so gets rolling on
actual portions of the trail
being built in the 2000s and
twenty 10s.
And then a turning point of the
pandemic hits and a lot of
people's habits change.
There's less of what we talked
about with the commuting just to
the office and back.
In a way, even though it
separated people, it also
brought us together in different
ways.
We were working from home.
We were often more often going
outdoors because of the social
distancing requirements.
So it almost reconnected people
with their neighbors in a way
and and nature.
So what effect did and maybe
Emily if you want to take this
one, what effect did this have
on the trails usage?
When COVID started, I had just
moved into my apartment all by
myself in South Norwalk.
So it was the first time living
alone.
And then we were in isolation.
So it was definitely, like you
said, very isolating in the
sense that we, well, I was
living alone, but everyone was
very much confined to their
homes.
But to be able to get out and
social distance, walk the, you
know, area of South Norwalk did
a good job and in creating that
space for people.
But what was a huge advantage
and that already existed was the
Norwalk River Valley Trail.
So you did notice, you know, a
surplus of people using that
path a lot more taking advantage
of the Oyster Shell Park area
and then being able to walk up
all the way to a broad river
kind of junction.
So you notice that a lot more
people were out and about and
able to still, you know,
interact and see each other
without with abiding by social
distancing.
So I did notice that it did
bring people kind of out of
their apartments and especially
in an apartment heavy area like
South Norwalk with those
businesses still there and
operating on, you know, those
restrictions, it was a really
good advantage to have.
They also, I, I really loved
that they closed down part of
Washington Street.
There were those barricades that
ended up getting painted in the
outdoor dining set up.
You just noticed people kind of
wanting that community
connectivityness more,
especially because we were
deprived of it during COVID.
It was really nice to see that
kind of transformation in South
Norwalk.
I would love to have that again.
Not COVID but the the outdoor.
Dining and again, oh to COVID
again, we do know that there was
an increase in the trail use in
Wilton because the NRVT was part
of a pilot program by UConn to
establish trail counters on some
Connecticut trails to sort of
collect the data to build a, a
case for support for
recreational trails, increased
funding in Connecticut.
And, and during the pandemic,
there was an uptick of over 250%
in usage, which has, has
basically leveled off in the,
and I'm sorry, the Wilton
section, our usage is between
3100 to 8300 a month, trail
users a month.
So think about that.
In the coldest month of the
year, there's still roughly 100
people a day using the trail in,
in Wilton.
And on the, you know, the most
pleasant of, of weather, it's,
it's, you know, 2 1/2 times
that.
And I think you were very astute
in mentioning the cultural shift
as the consequence of the
pandemic.
And I think for Americans,
right?
I think we're Americans in the
Northeast, people who are really
under the the COVID lockdown
that what these trails and
communities, I think we're more
considered a nice to have as an
amenity if you were living in
the community.
And I just think more people
look around and now these
amenities are must haves in
communities.
And I think hands down that
that's been a positive outcome
of, of COVID that we have as a
culture shifted to the
recognizing the importance of
being able to get outside, not
just for health reasons, but for
mental well-being as well and
and connection with other
people.
So on that note, as the amount
of people using the trail grew,
did the organization also grow
at that time?
Did you see increasing numbers
of volunteers around COVID or
how did that work on the
organizational side?
Right.
So I, I would say that the
biggest impact, and this is
really a credit to Congressman
Jim Himes, was especially during
the pandemic when it became also
obvious or maybe from the
previous administration with
their commitment to improving
infrastructure and really to
improving infrastructure in
areas that had been challenged
environmentally, you know,
environmental justice areas and
socioeconomic.
Strata areas that there was a
commitment to provide
connectivity there and our
trail, because it's also
bikeable and considered a
commuter alternative is
categorized as infrastructure.
So as people are continuing to
go out and and use the trails
and there's a recognition that
this is needed.
There was also a largesse of
funding available on a federal
level that our congressman
directed us to.
And as a result, we've as an
organization have partnered with
municipalities and and have been
able to tap into that funding in
order to build more trail.
So a significant portion of the
trail is in nature, particularly
when you go into places like
Wilton.
I've walked it plenty of times
and you're surrounded by a lot
of, you know, beautiful tree
coverage, lots of different
animals.
Can you tell me a little bit
about some of the environmental
highlights of taking a stroller
or bike in those nature oriented
portions?
It's nice to get away from the
traffic heavy noise of the city
too, and have that escape into
something that you're really,
truly surrounded by nature and
sounds of birds.
And it is very, you know,
calming.
There's something called tree
bathing or sound bathing that
Audrey Kosanar introduced me to.
And it's essentially, yeah,
taking a walk in the Wilton
section of the Norwalk River
Valley Trail.
So there is this like kind of
mental escape that you just
can't help but get into when
you're surrounded by nature.
So I definitely noticed that.
And it is it's it's nice to bump
into people along the trail to
you stumble upon people you may
know or don't know.
And I feel like it is, you know,
very calming in that sense,
especially because I thrive in
the day-to-day rush of things
that I'm like biking all over
the city.
It's nice to when I do bike to
the NRVT board meetings up in
Wilton, I noticed that drastic
shift from, oh, I'm out of the
city and I'm in the quiet woods
and just kind of enjoying this
ride along the water, along the
river.
It's really it's quite
beautiful.
I've had a volunteer, this was a
couple years ago, so not too
long after locked down, loosened
up and everything.
And her circumstances during
COVID were she really was
working from home and, you know,
the whole household and she
needed to to sort of just be
able to get out on a daily
basis.
And so the trail provided that
respite for her.
And she really wholeheartedly
said that the NRVT saved me
during COVID.
And I also think, and this is
goes Harkins back to my
experience, you know, spending
my summers where I did in the
Black Forest, enjoying trails
like this.
I think there's a real benefit
to people of all ages if you if
you regularly walk an area, say
in nature and as a matter of
habit, that throughout the year,
you get to see the changes
within nature.
I mean, every, every season, you
know, there's a there's a
change.
And I think that's just really a
good reminder in our, as Emily
mentioned, this very fast-paced
world we can find ourselves in
sometimes.
I love that too.
And we're in such a special area
in Connecticut where we do get
all Four Seasons.
So NRBT in the spring is a
totally different phenomena than
NRBT in the fall.
And it is.
It's so beautiful to see the the
shift throughout the year.
It makes time passing a little
more enjoyable.
Yeah.
And to expand on the point of
what you're saying with people
of all ages, I think it's so
important for kids development
to be able to get out and take
on the world by themselves.
I mean, I certainly noticed.
I grew up in Ruaiton, sort of by
Brian McMahon High School, and
the ability for me to be able to
bike into town and get an ice
cream at 101 or get pizza,
Ruaiton pizza with my friends
was so big for my development
and my independence, and I feel
like it's just such a necessary
thing to have in towns.
Yeah, I have to agree with that,
although I will say every,
every, you know, spring we do
sort of get, you know, some,
some tweens or teens building
ramps and they're on their bikes
and they're sort of jumping on
into the trail.
And So what, you know, the, the,
the text blow up or the messages
come online like, you know,
people are wrecking the, the,
the serenity of the trail.
But, and I'm torn in those
circumstances because honestly,
those are, you know, tweens and
teens that aren't in front of a
screen when they're actually out
there enjoying nature.
And you know, when I was growing
up, that's the kind of kid I was
too, building ramps and doing
things like that.
So I can, I don't, I don't,
it's, we have to deal with it.
And no one should be unsafe well
on the trail.
But it is nice to see for that
reason, because it reminds me
that they're out in nature and
not in front of the screens.
It sounds like we need a
mountain biking trail as well.
Maybe not the NRBT, but some
sort of space for these yeah
mountain bikers.
You alluded to it a little bit,
Emily, about how you get around
and how you used your bike so
often.
You biked out here to the
Westport library today, So how?
Yeah, absolutely.
You did too, Jack.
How does that perspective of
being someone who's a commuter,
who like maybe gets groceries
using your bike, who goes to
meetings all the way up in
Wilton, how does that experience
inform your work at the Rock
River Valley Trail?
I think being a part of the
board for the NRVT inspires me
to continue biking, and being a
part of the Bike Walk Commission
is also incentivizing for me to
want to bike more.
I think it really stemmed from
not wanting to drive.
Like I got so tired of sitting
in traffic in Connecticut.
I used to work at Kayak in
Stamford when I was still in
college.
I came home for a summer and
just the commute from Norwalk to
Stamford was almost an hour or
went in commuting traffic in the
morning in a car on the highway.
So I think just not enjoying
that and being, you know, the
only one in the car driving and
just having that experience
versus being in DC where you're
walking and, you know, taking
the train or more engaged and
more able to connect with people
on public transit using active
transportation.
I think what really inspires me
to keep biking and I do, I, I
love to bike to dairy and Trader
Joe's to get my groceries.
And then I'll load up my paneers
on the back of my bike and
people stop me and are like,
are, are you really, you're
biking and you're biking all
those groceries like good for
you, like way to go.
And I'm like, oh, it's nothing.
This is another Tuesday.
Like this is anyone could do it.
If I can do it.
I, I highly believe that, you
know that it should inspire
other people to want to do it.
And I have to say, the more
involved I get with the NRVT and
the bike walk Commission, the
more I notice people walking,
biking, scooting.
There's scoot the block now in
Norwalk.
So I noticed more people on
scooters.
I just, I tend to, you know,
manifest it.
So I think keep keeping at it
and using it, like you said, to
either do my day-to-day
groceries or other
responsibilities.
Like it is something that I feel
that the more we create the
space for it, the more that it
will, you know, happen and we'll
have more people joining in to
do it.
I think commuting to Wilton for
the board meetings, though, I, I
couldn't do that without the
NRBT.
There are some sections that
we're still working on getting
connected and there's a lot of
work coming through with the 715
project.
So I think, you know, there's a
lot of great progress still
being made, but having that safe
space for all, you know, ages
and abilities to be able to walk
and bike is really important.
And I think the NRBT supports
that.
And just to add to what you're
saying about the whole commuting
thing, you know, we talked,
we're talking about this in the
context of a highway that could
have been there.
It is a legitimate use of a bike
to do not only recreational
activities, but activities of
necessity.
And also from the driver's
perspective, you want more bikes
going around because one more
bike is 1 less car on the
highway.
It takes about 1/2 an hour to
get from Stanford to Stanford
and and so there are more people
biking, that's less people on
the highway.
Exactly.
In terms of the way that Norwalk
is developing, particularly as
regards its urban core, we just
had an episode.
The last episode was with Mayor
Reeling and he I asked him what
he was most excited about in
Norwalk's future.
And he said the development of
the urban core in Norwalk.
So how do you think that
development is going to
complement the work that you're
doing?
Andrea, why don't you start with
this one?
Sure.
I think, you know, I don't know
if a lot of people have know the
term Tod, right, transit
oriented development.
Well, in, in the last couple of
years, there's also something
called TROT, which is trail
oriented development.
And I think when you have an
urban core and, and you develop
it in a, in a planned and
directed way for the future,
then what municipal leaders are
doing is they're trying to
attract people that will that,
you know, have good paying jobs
that might settle and raise
families.
And for that you need that
connectivity because just
demographically, you know,
there's a, we all know that,
that there's a boomer
generation, right?
There's sort of they're aging
and then the next larger
demographic are young adults,
really people under 35 and a lot
of younger adults don't want to
drive like it's just a a
preference.
They don't want the expense.
They just don't want to even
really buy into the whole idea
of needing a car in order to get
around.
So I think when you start
focusing on the urban core and
in any city, and I live in
Danbury, I'm also an elected
official in Danbury, so very
interested in this particular
topic.
And I live downtown.
So I think when you're doing
that kind of planning, you
really need to plan for the
future.
And for that you need to look at
see who, who will, who is the
future and then build
accordingly and provide those
amenities and livable
communities that they want to
come and live in.
So let's dig a little deeper.
Let's get into the very exciting
conversation of process and.
Bureaucracy.
So something we talked about
before we started recording is
just how people have a very low
institutional trust these days.
People feel as though there are
bureaucracies bigger than they
can possibly comprehend.
They say, oh, there's, you know,
20,000 people working at X
agency.
They couldn't all possibly be
doing something productive or
something beneficial to my life.
And so I'd love to sort of
unpack the process of building,
building a trail, applying for
grants, that kind of thing, and
what impact that has on People's
Daily lives because everyone can
see the trail, but not
necessarily what goes into it.
I think in a way, this
organization is really presents
a good case for what can be done
when government is interacted
with in a productive manner.
You've mentioned you're an
elected official, but of course,
it's complicated.
You have to apply for those
grants.
You have to work with various
stakeholders that may have
entirely different backgrounds,
opinions.
They could be land owners that
are affected by the whole
situation.
It's slow.
I mean, we went over the decades
that it's been thought about.
So can you walk me through a
little bit the nuts and bolts of
how something like this really
happens?
Let's start with like just the
process of like applying for a
grant.
Tell me some of the grants you
have I've applied for, gotten
and sort of what that looks
like.
Sure, I'll try to simplify it.
So currently so OK, so as a
nonprofit we we have board
members, those are volunteer
board members and then I am paid
full time executive director for
the last 3 1/2 years.
For the last year we've added a
part time administrator, very
excited.
This is the week she bumps up to
30 hours.
So there's, you know, so there's
grants that and money that you
raise to be able to support the
nonprofit's work operationally.
So that's sort of one bucket.
And then because we're a a trail
organization, there's also the
construction side of it, which
is really big money.
In general, the big construction
money won't flow to a nonprofit.
So they are usually available to
municipalities.
So town of city of and so we
partner as a nonprofit with
municipal leaders.
We take on the application
process to be able to generate
an application that can get
funded with construction money.
Now that pre construction work
is a lot of work and it's not
until you have all the pre
construction work done that you
can access that large
construction money.
So for example, we have $8.4
million now committed in
construction funding over 4
projects.
Some of that money's been
available to us since, you know,
late 2022 and early 23.
But because of the requirements
of getting to final design and
being able to build in the land,
land that's owned by the state,
land that might be owned by a
private property owner, that all
that takes time.
So in projects like say we have
a $3,000,000 construction
process, a project, we probably
have $300,000 in pre
construction work that we do,
which also includes
environmental impact studies,
endangered species studies,
archaeological studies.
Because of where we're building,
we could have paleo artifacts,
we can have indigenous
artifacts, we can have
Revolutionary War artifacts.
So these are a lot of
requirements that the state
gives us when we're going
through pristine, pristine
woods.
So that money, the the current
funding only 1.5 is actually
been given to us and that's a
very exceptional source of money
through the Department of
Economic Community Development
for Community Investment Fund,
of which Norwalk qualifies as a
recipient city.
But that particular funding
stream is also open to
nonprofits.
So that was our latest award of
$1.5 million.
That award also includes 2
economic impact studies.
One is for the City of Norwalk
of a completed trail of what
economically that would mean and
to the community wise for the
City of Norwalk and the same
thing for the City of Danbury.
And I had built that into the
grant because of that'll help us
create a, a future narrative to
get more construction money.
So we partner with the
municipalities, we try to do all
the work on their behalf.
As I mentioned, we can have as
much as $300,000 in pre
construction costs.
So we alleviate the municipal
budget of those expenses.
So as a nonprofit, we try to, we
try to make it really easy for
our partnering municipalities to
say yes to us because we're not
asking for them to figure out
the $300,000 of all the pre
construction work that needs to
get to $3,000,000 of
construction funding.
It's a great return on money,
but a lot of times
municipalities don't have the
flexibility to be able to add
$300,000 to their budget, even
if it's an amenity most of the
public wants because it's a lot
of money.
So we try to make it as easy as
possible.
And then once we endeavor on
that, we, we work and liaise
with the Western Council of
Governments, which is sort of
an, an arbiter of prioritizing
infrastructure projects that
will be funded by the dot, state
dot.
Another source of our funding is
CT Deep.
They have a recreational trail
grant program and we've been
successful in applying,
partnering with the town of
Wilton for that and receiving
funding and then the other
outstanding projects in Danbury
where the city of Danbury did
step up and and help us provide
for the initial studies.
So every section has its own
source that we try to target.
And so that, so I don't think
that's a simple answer, but it
also also depends on where the
original money is flowing.
If it's a federal grant, if it's
a state grant.
Another sort of side
conversation is 2 years ago, we
partnered with WESCOG.
The Western Council government
brought to them a planning grant
that we thought would be a good
fit for the NRBT.
It was, it's a Federal Highway
grant.
And we partnered again with
WESCOG.
They had limited resources.
They could they, they could
apply for the grant.
We couldn't.
But they also were providing
some data points and said they
would help us with bringing all
the information together.
We then on our side worked with
our engineers and, and other
people and help write the grant.
They ended up getting that award
two years ago, $5.6 million,
which is to finalize the root of
the NRVT and start all those
studies and work that I, I
mentioned that sort of that we,
we take on and then to also
provide trail design, but also
have construction plans for each
of the remaining sections.
So that gets us to shovel ready
and that makes it easy for us to
apply for construction on that
same fund Federal funding source
grant.
Now the benefit is also that W
COG is a regional organization.
So to make it more regionally
compelling, they added to this
planning grant a feasibility
study at the terminus in Danbury
to route W along the Maybrook
Trail and connect in Brewster to
the Empire State Trail system.
And then to route N along the
Still River, connect to
Brookfield Still River Greenway,
one of the most popular
greenways in the state of
Connecticut, and continue N to
New Milford and connect with
their river walk and their Town
Center.
So the concept of the Western
Connecticut Trail Project is
connectivity from New Milford to
CAF Pasture Beach, and that's 55
miles.
Beautiful, My gosh, another big
part of that just to add on to
everything you're saying, which
is so great and there is so
much, you know, state and local
and federal funding that goes
into this, but maintaining is a
whole nother, you know, kind of
monster to approach as well.
And I know a big part of that
too is through our volunteers,
our donors, our other, you know,
corporate sponsors as well and
other grants that we're able to
get.
But it is, it's, it's really
great to see just how much
people want this and are are
willing to support it.
Yeah, when I when I put that
Western Connecticut trail
project and and and context for
people like I, I really see
people's heads explode because
it's like what?
And and yet these things take so
much time as as you mentioned
earlier, that so here this award
again, this was Congressman
Himes, right?
He directed us to this potential
source.
We made the argument to West Cog
that because the trails between
Norwalk and Danbury, we, we
think, you know, this is a good,
a good application.
We were told it's very
competitive, not just on the
state level, but also on the
federal level.
But when you write grants like
this, it's good because then you
have, you know, information for
the next grant in case you don't
get the grant.
And we were, you know, the
deadline was like February 2023.
We were told we'd know in
October.
And then we got news July 1.
That we that that the grant had
been funded and but that was two
years ago and now it's just the
work is starting because there's
a lot of compliancy.
When you have federal grants,
the compliancy levels are even
higher.
Earlier this year a book called
Abundance came out by Ezra Klein
and Derek Thompson and they talk
about this idea that we don't
really build anymore, that we
don't really fund these massive
projects.
And part of it that was an over
correction from in the 1970s,
like you mentioned, highways
being ran through communities,
large projects happening without
significant input from
specifically marginalized
communities that aren't normally
heard in our political dialogue.
But their argument is that we
have overcorrected for this.
And now we have organizations
that are forced to be bogged
down in process and bureaucracy
and checks and environmental
reviews and all these things
that we've we have lost the
capacity, capacity to do large
projects.
They provide the example of the
Empire State Building, which was
built in 410 days and just how
we can't really do that anymore.
And obviously, you know, we've
seen a lot of improvements in
that world.
I'm not sure I can speak to the
labor rights of the workers who
put together the Empire State
Building.
But the point is that if we want
these things, like even bigger
things, like, for example, like
a high speed rail, something out
in California that's been talked
about for decades and decades
hasn't been able to be
completed.
What do you think about that
argument?
And have you faced similar
hurdles in the world of
bureaucracy to what they're
they're pointing out, Andrea.
I think it's a matter of
understanding and the process
like I think, I think your point
to to look and sort of under the
hood of what the process is.
I, I know from our outreach
events, we're in communities
this, you know, we've, we've
been at the Wilton Street Fair.
We're going to be in Danbury at
the, the art festival we're in,
you know, Richfield will be in
Norwalk in September.
And when we, when we give
context to this project and
really since 2012, it's been
volunteers until a full time
executive director.
It's the opportunity of the
infrastructure money coming in
and really the board at the time
recognizing that as an
opportunity and pivoting and,
you know, moving forward.
So we're we're looking at that
all the time.
But once you understand the
process, you can find the
through lines.
But it it is a lot and it and
you know, we're bogged down in
our section in Richfield because
we're going through CTD planned
and every time something comes
up, I'm like, OK, let's remember
P is for protection.
So, you know, their standards
are that much higher than the
Department of Transportation
perhaps.
But it, it does get bogged down.
Some people are more at it.
We, you know, we just keep
trying to chase all the details
and, and it eventually does move
and things do happen.
And let's cross our fingers and
hope we have two shovels in the
ground in, in November 'cause
we're trying to really move
through our projects in Wilton
and Richfield.
But if not, then it's spring.
But people should see
construction soon.
So let's look towards that
future.
What is the timeline?
Look on the rest of of the
trail, Emily.
Well, that's a great question.
I don't know if I, I am the best
person to answer this, but I,
I'm looking forward to it being
done as soon as possible if
that's a good answer.
But I, I know we were just
talking about stats.
There was this event at Memresa
Wilds and we have an updated map
and we know the key and the
legend have been adjusted so we
can see what's in progress,
what's connected, what's gotten
funded, did, what's in planning.
And so there since I started, I
want to say two or three years
ago on the board, there's been a
lot of really great progress.
The broad River section, the
missing link is no longer
missing, which has been
incredible.
And I think total in Norwalk
mileage is what?
I think it's well over 5 miles.
Well over and so it's and it
keeps getting better.
And I mean, like Andrea was
saying and like we were just
talking about earlier, there are
other, you know, state level
projects happening where the
NRBT will cross through and
that's coming very soon by, you
know, 2027 that holds 715
project will be underway.
So I'm, I'm really looking
forward to hopefully fingers
crossed in the next five years
or something, a really good
connection between Norwalk and
Wilton.
But Andrea, you're probably a
better person to answer this
question.
Yeah, there's a lot of pots on
the stove, so to speak.
So we have progress in different
sections.
And so especially with this, the
award to Wescog of this Western
Connecticut Trail project and
the federal funding that's been
designated to do those studies
because that particular planning
grant will will end up with
construction plans.
So shovel ready that just allows
us to go to the next large
funding source and be able to to
hopefully get funded.
So I think in, in the context of
that, with that planning grant,
with the opportunity, this
particular funding source from
the federal government has not
been interrupted, that I'm, I'm
saying 10 years, like we could
have the whole thing done.
And I, I will do whatever I can.
I know Emily's committed.
We got a whole bunch of people
that are really looking to see
this done.
And the more we get out in the
community and tell people about
the project, the closer, the
closer we get.
And it's hard with things like
this because these are, I call
it a legacy project because I
don't know that there will be
one person from beginning to end
who, who can say, Oh yeah, I
started here in 19, 7579 pushing
a, you know, back against Super
7.
And here I am 50-60 years later,
the trail is built.
So it, it is a legacy project.
People are continuing to, to
move it forward.
And while it, it feels like it's
at a crawl, I, I would also say
that in the last three, three to
four years, there's been a lot
of activity and a lot of
opportunity.
But that's because it's just
been built up.
You know, it's, it's, it's a
constant, you know, it's
standing on the shoulders of a
lot of people who have done good
work.
So to listeners who may have,
who may be listening to this and
saying, Oh my gosh, I think I
walked a trail at some point
that may be that or I've never
heard of this.
I'm going to go check it out or
I'd like to get involved.
So for these next 10 years, but
even thinking shorter term in
the next year or two, how can
they get involved?
What?
What do you guys need do?
You want, do you want to take
that?
I mean, Emily got involved, you
know, 2 1/2 three years ago.
So.
And I did it exactly that way.
Yeah, I found myself on the
trail and was like, oh, how can
I get more involved in this?
Definitely visiting our website,
which I we have a short domain,
nrvt.org.
We'll bring you to
nrvthyphentrail.com And on there
we have multiple, you know,
opportunities to get involved,
either volunteering for trail
maintenance communications to
help support grants or to be
able to attend our board
meetings and hear first hand,
you know what, all the work
that's going in across towns.
I know I'm, I'm kind of Norwalk
focused, but it is so good to
see, you know, the other board
members and everyone coming
together and making progress in
their areas.
I'm so grateful for all our
volunteers that come and help
and especially in Norwalk.
The city of Norwalk has been a
huge help, but it's it's also
the volunteers that do trail
cleanups.
Recently we had, you know, a
high school sustainability group
connect with us and want to do a
trail pickup.
So little things like that are
just truly we're most grateful
for and easy, you know, for us
to help and support those sorts
of initiatives.
The Girl Scouts came as well and
did like a little signage
project.
So if people are interested in,
you know, discovering the trail,
using the trail, maintaining the
trail or just wanting to, you
know, be next to Andrea like it
is, she's a wealth of knowledge.
And it's been a really great
opportunity to learn, you know,
from her and everyone on the
board how these sorts of
nonprofits get started.
And it is a beautiful kind of
coming of age story of the trail
itself and how it started.
So I mean, definitely visit us
online or e-mail or you know,
everything should be available
on our website.
Yeah.
And as an organization, you
know, we continue to grow.
So we do have a need.
We're we're looking to build our
board includes A diverse board,
you know, along along the
communities and we just did a
volunteer reboot.
We have a a length the the
missing link that's no longer
missing along Riverside Ave.
We we are now obligated to
maintain that.
So we're looking for a a Norwalk
crew to help us trail tend and
we have a program that's been
very successful in Wilton.
So we're looking to start that
up.
People can certainly help with
that.
Again, like as Emily mentioned
on our website we have you can
fill out of.
I like to volunteer.
We do public outreach, tabling
events.
It's always nice to have a
helping hand that way.
So for our final question, I'd
love to learn what your favorite
park is in Connecticut.
Do you have a go to
recommendation for our
listeners?
While you guys are thinking,
I'll share mine which is a
little local Waveney.
I had many a cross country meet
there and it's a great loop for
walking my golden retriever
Maisie.
I didn't know you had a dog,
Maisie.
Yes, that's very cute.
I guess, gosh, I might go a
little out of Norwalk here.
I really, if have you been to
Mohegan Lake, Do you know
Mohegan Lake?
I don't know if it's a State
Park, though.
There is in Fairfield.
There's this really, it must be
a park.
There's this beautiful kind of
off road park and it's dog
friendly so you can walk your
dogs.
It's called Mohegan Lake, but I
kept calling it Mohegan Sun for
the longest time.
But it's this beautiful, you
know, place where there's access
to, you know, the lake Mohegan
and you can let your dogs go
swimming and there's a beautiful
little walk around area there.
And on occasion, unfortunately,
I do have to drive there, but
I'll go up with, you know, some
friends and we'll walk our dogs
up and around there.
But it's really remote.
It's disconnected and it's that
kind of like immersion into
nature and no people, well
people but no city.
So it's it's a really great
park.
Well, so I'm going to mention 21
is located right in Danbury,
which is Terry Well Park.
It's the largest municipally
owned park in the state of
Connecticut, like 700 plus
acres.
So there's a lot to to discover
there and I live really close
by.
It's also part of the district
that I represent on the Danbury
City Council.
So I'm in there a lot just
checking things out.
And it's it's really quite
beautiful.
But if I'm, if I'm packing, if
I'm leaving, if I'm moving away
from Danbury, you know, then I
like to take a little hike.
So I usually end up at somewhere
in Litchfield and it's just
beautiful up there.
So I'm partial to the White
Memorial.
That's always interesting.
There's always something to see
or something like, yeah, I'm
going to say White Memorial is
probably my go to.
Thank you guys so much for
coming on today.
Thank you, Jack.
Thanks for the invitation.
This was awesome.
A lot of fun.
Thank you, Jack.
This episode of Community Ties
couldn't have happened without
the work of the board of Nancy
on Norwalk, particularly that of
Justin Matley, Sean Fox, and
Ashley RK Smith.
Nancy on Norwalk is powered by
its donors who keep the
organization's lights on.
Of course, I want to
particularly thank Emily and
Andrea for coming on the show
and engaging in this dialogue.
Access to recording equipment
was provided by the Westport
Library's Verso Studios.
Special thanks to Travis Bell
for showing me how it all works.
I highly encourage listeners to
look into the resources that the
Westport Library offers if
you're at all interested in
audio, music, or podcasting.
Of course, always support public
libraries.
To everyone out there listening,
thank you for tuning in.