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A conversational podcast between husband-n-wife pair, Jon and Kristy, about books Kristy makes Jon read.
Hello listeners and welcome to this week's episode of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host, Kristy and this is my co-host, my husband, Jon whom I make read the books. Hello, everybody. This week, we're going to be discussing If We Were Villains by M.L. Rio. If We Were Villains is Rio's debut novel, and it is quite lovely. It's in the contemporary mystery thriller genre, and I could not stop thinking about this book. I obsessively thought about it for weeks, and then finally, I was like, Jon has to read this book so that I can talk about it with him.
Yeah, it was pretty much right after you got done too. You couldn't stop talking about it like you have to read this book. Yeah. Before we get into that, we want to definitely thank all of our listeners for giving this new podcast a try. We have been really overwhelmed by all the support we've gotten and feedback reviews we've received. So thank you to everyone who has sent a text, an email or whom we've spoken to in person. Parrier cigeon. Carrier pigeon.
Pigeon carrier, carrier pigeon. Did I say it right? I don't know. I barely heard you.
We appreciate you and your carrier pigeons. Thank you. One of the pieces of feedback we did receive was giving listeners a heads up of the books that we're going to be discussing in the future. That way, if you are interested in reading, you can get ahead and you'll know what's coming up. So our next book is The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon And I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that name right.
And then the next next book is Just for the Summer by Abby Jimenez. Now, if you look at that second book, Just for the Summer book, and you see that it is the third in a series of books, and you're like, why in the hell would they pick the third in a series of books to discuss? Yes, it technically is, but Abby Jimenez will tell you that all of her books are standalone books. And I can say that with confidence because I heard her speak here in Washington D.C. this weekend. And she said that. So while she would love you to read the first two, the third one can absolutely be read by itself. You're not going to really miss anything. Good to know.
Just a reminder, you can still snag some sweet swag. If you head over to Apple Podcasts. Why did I write such a tongue twister? I don't but know head over to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to this, leave us a review. Tell us what you think of the show. If you hate the show, you still can email us and get swag. It does not have to be a five star review. What we're really looking for is your honest feedback and how you're enjoying it. So rate review and then send us an email at booksimakemyhusbandread@gmail.com and we'll show you, or we'll send you a show sticker and a button.
Also, we haven't mentioned this before, but we do have an Instagram account. So if you could please follow us on Instagram, it is drum roll… Books I Make My Husband Read, see what we're doing there. Yeah. Consistency. Yes, I know. So go follow us on Instagram. You'll find some fun reels. I know somewhere in the future we're going to share some bloopers, and we might even have some giveaways in the future. So follow us there. And then you can also check out the upcoming books as well. Yeah, we're figuring it out.
Alright, so before we get into the show, I want to clear a couple of things up. So this is what we are going to start calling, I think our fact-checking section. I'm on the edge of my seat. So I was yesterday years old when I learned this. And you know how you have been reading a word a certain way for maybe like a long time, you've never heard that word pronounced. In the last episode, I said, Romancey. And then this weekend I heard it's Romantasy, which makes way more fucking sense. Romance and fantasy. Romance and fantasy. But I just kind of meshed them in my mind and forgot the T. Yeah. So it's Romantasy. So I just want to clear that up that I understand it now. Phew, so glad you got that off your chest. Yeah, that's that.
And then second, I realized when we listened back that I actually never said what quadrant you would be in. You said what quadrant you thought I would be in, but I never said what one you would be in. I'm dying. Anticipation is killing me. Now onto the show. Skip it for a second time. Maybe in the third episode, I'll tell you. I don't know. I don't think I was surprised by your answer when you said you would be in the healers quadrant because I understand your reasoning, you know, your deep empathy for people, which I just strongly admire about you. But I also think you're a lot braver than you give yourself credit for. So there was a part of me that thought maybe you would go for the Riders quadrant. I don't think you'd be in the infantry so I can that one. And I don't necessarily think you would be a scribe either. So I haven't quite made my decision, but I think that maybe I might put you in the Riders quadrant. Alright, so I appreciate the vote of confidence. Yeah. Alright.
So are you ready to talk about this book? Let's get on with the show. If We Were Villains, it's a captivating literary thriller. It intertwines classical theater with a dark, suspenseful mystery. It's set at an elite, prestigious arts college called Dellecher. And sorry for all or all - all - any of the Juilliard graduates out there who are listening to our tiny podcast. J/K. Anyone who is in the performing arts arena, I apologize if I am way off base when I say this, but in my head the whole time I was reading this, I thought of it like a Juilliard, a very prestigious school like that.
So it's set at this school. It's set around seven drama students who are really deeply immersed in Shakespeare. The story is narrated by Oliver Marks. He has at the start of the show, he has been in prison for the last 10 years and he is visited by Detective Colborne. So Colborne is convinced that Oliver did not actually commit this crime, but Colborne is retiring from the police force and he wants to know the truth, which is what the hell happened 10 years ago at Dellecher?
Alright, so 10 years ago, Oliver's entering his senior year at Dellecher. He's one of those seven students that I mentioned who makes it to their fourth year. So the school is known for being super cutthroat and any performance that like they deem unsatisfactory. They're the school is known for cutting the students each year, as many as half. So these seven students are the only seniors that have made it to that fourth year. So if you listen to our last episode on Fourth Wing, Dellecher is kind of like the Riders quadrant of acting. To put it that way. I can totally see that.
Each of the seven characters are introduced to us with a specific archetype in the first act. So Oliver, which we've already mentioned, is the book's narrator and the story's protagonist. Oliver is known for being agreeable, difficult to cast, often he's assigned the role of a sidekick to the hero, and he ultimately becomes romantically involved with Meredith, another one of the fourth years.
James, Oliver's best friend and roommate, James is described as the most handsome and studious. He is often cast as the actual hero as opposed to the side kick to the hero, but he has voiced, his desire to play more diverse roles. Then there's Richard. Richard is the primary antagonist and he's an asshole. He is imposing and handsome. He's often cast as the male lead and he expects to be cast as the male lead, but he's a bully. He is a bully to everyone around him, especially James.
Alright, so next we have Meredith, Meredith's Richard's girlfriend. She is described as being a redhead. She is strikingly beautiful and desirable. She's often physically objectified, which is something that she actually both resents and exploits. Philippa is our grounded, clear-headed character. She's really the peacemaker of the group. And there's actually a point in the book where Oliver says that everybody forgets about Philippa and what they wish. Or they shouldn't? She was actually my favorite. Interesting.
Alexander is usually cast as a villain. He's the most reckless within the group. He's often depicted as using drugs or over drinking like multiple times within the story. So finally we have Wren who is Richard's cousin. She's petite, she's blonde, she's described as being very innocent or having an innocent disposition and she's often cast as the ingenue in their performances.
What's an ingenue? It's someone who yeah has a innocent disposition or is maybe a little bit Unsophisticated or naive. I mean like specifically in a film or a play. Interesting.
Okay so as Kristy was saying each of these seven main characters are cast very specific archetypes and for the most part traditionally through their years of Dellecher have played those roles as aligned with their archetypes, but it's not until a little bit later in that, their senior year that they're required to perform Macbeth and all hell breaks loose because roles wind up shifting, they get cast in different roles than they're used to and it takes everybody kind of by surprise. Because of that, it breaks egos. creates a ton of conflict in their group and it leads to murder. And one of them winds up dead.
And then, I mean, really the rest of the book is the fallout as the six remaining students are left sort of with their greatest acting challenge yet. They have to convince themselves as well as police that they're supposedly innocent. Right. More themselves, but yeah. Alright, so I think that's a pretty good summary and we should dive into our thoughts and discussion on the book.
So this is your warning that if you did not read the book and you do not want spoilers, please exit now.
Alright, so let's talk about what we rated the book. So I actually had to go back to my Goodreads account and look what I rated it. One, it's been a little while since I read it, but two, I had in my head that I rated it four stars, but it turns out - how dare you - I know, geez, well, I only have so many five star reviews to give per year. So I actually did rate it a five and I had to sort of reflect back on why I gave it a five in my initial reaction.
There's a lot of Shakespeare and I'm no scholar by any means. I'm certainly no Shakespearean expert. You're not? What? You totally lied on your Tinder profile. That was good. Yeah. So I'm no expert in Shakespeare and I remember having real reservations, like going into the book because of that. Would I feel dumb or overwhelmed or would I just not get it and not be able to enjoy the book. It's a bit intimidating. Yeah, that's a great word for it. It's intimidating, but I didn't. I freaking loved it too. The whole story is beautifully complex and equally tragic, but you don't, you don't need those references to still enjoy the book. And I think that's a real testament to Rio's writing. Yeah.
And to be fair, I think that's a great point. I actually almost didn't recommend it to you for that reason. There's so much of it. And if you are like, what are they talking about? But it just progresses so well. And I was like, he has to read this book. And you did. I gave this book five stars. The prose is beautiful. I mean, the fact that it's M.L. Rio's first novel is just amazing to me because the writing is so captivating. It's so intentional. I know there were tons of Shakespearean Easter eggs that I completely missed because I'm just not immersed in that world. I'm not a thespian. I was part of my high school's Cinderella production when I was in ninth grade, and that is my complete career of acting. That is my complete career of acting at the age of what 14 or 15. So I read this book last year and then to prepare for this, I actually listened to it and I, and I love to listen to books. I listen to a ton of books. I'm usually reading and listening to a book at the same time, different books, but I didn't enjoy listening to this one as much. The reason is a lot of the scenes are performances. So in a performance, you'll say Oliver and then Oliver's line and James and then James's line and Meredith and then Meredith's line. It's a little distracting. And when you're reading it, you're, just fill those blanks in without you having to, know, to necessarily read it. So still great though. Again, a lot of Shakespeare. So I'm sure there are things that I missed, but I mean, if you are into the performing arts, you're really into Shakespeare. You have to read this book. I thought it was so good.
Alright, so if you're still listening and you haven't read it though, I think before we do the discussion, there are just a couple of key things that we want to point out. Otherwise you're going to just not understand what we're talking about. Yeah. And this is, these are like clear gut wrenching spoilers. So definitely exit now if you don't want this but the first one is Richard is the one who is the actor that winds up dying.
He, as you mentioned earlier, he was arguably the best actor in the group, but he was also a total asshole to everybody. He was abusive to Meredith, his girlfriend. He took fighting scenes, the practice fighting scenes way too far with his classmates, leaving bruises. And I feel like everyone really hated him. At least by the fourth year, it was implied that he was not well liked.
Yeah. So Richard and James, they get in a fight near the boat dock. And in the heat of the moment, James picks up this boat hook that's just there and he hits Richard. Richard's kind of, not kind of, Richard's taunting him. He sees him with the boat hook and he's like, go ahead and do it. He calls him a Prince. He's Richard being Richard. Yeah, exactly. And James is just kind of tired of it because there's this, the scene previously where Richard all but tries to drown James and had the other students not been there, he might've succeeded in this.
So James is there thinking, who's going to save me from Richard trying to hurt me this time? The answer is no one, because no one else is around. So Richard falls in the lake and James thinks he has killed them at that point. And for the majority of the book, none of the other students actually know what happened. Yeah. They don't find him until later that like super early morning, like three, four in the morning, something like that. I think it was. All six of them find Richard floating in the lake. He appears very dead, but they quickly realize that he's actually still alive. He's not dead. And they just stand there. James tries to go after him right away. But they still just stand there. But he gets held back. You're right. The rest of them just stand there after they're holding James back and they're essentially watching him drown. Right. Because of how much of an asshole he is. Yeah.
James is saying like we have to do something and Alexander is like, why? He's going to keep being a bully to us. He's going to keep being an asshole. And so they go around one by one and that's when they decide to do nothing. And each one of them agrees that that's what they're going to do. It's just so awkward. So the remainder of the book though, is the fallout that happens after they make this decision together. Right. So those are the spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the book that pretty much gives you the end, the key moments. Thank you for listening to this episode. Alright.
So if someone asks you, what would you say this novel is about? The author writes, you can justify anything if you do it poetically enough. And I think that quote really sums up the book. Yeah, that's true. I've always been a fan of murder mysteries and psychological thrillers. I think that's my favorite genre. And this book obviously has murder. It has a whodunit sort of theme. But what I love about the book is that it focuses less on the crime and more on the corruption and the morality of each of the characters. These students have immersed themselves in Shakespeare for the bulk of their young life. They're in their final year. They're focused on tragedies. And within that immersion, they're really confronted constantly with the worst elements of the human psyche, like violence and lies and jealousy - all these terrible things, so I can totally see it, how that seeps into their real world. Yeah, I mean, they end up creating their own tragedy. So they do. Alright.
So speaking of quotes from the book, which that was a great one. Oliver says, so nothing unites men like a common enemy. And I think he says that in their decision to let Richard drown and to do nothing because Richard, they see him as an enemy. But do you really think that Richard was their enemy? In their real lives? Yes, I think he was absolutely their enemy. Just by the way, they all stood around and described how he made their lives miserable. Like enough so that they all verbally agreed to just stand there and let him die. But they never asked themselves whether or not the decision they were making would implicate them as guilty and murdered. They were solely focused on how letting Richard die would benefit them if he was no longer around. So are the rest of the fourth years really the villains of the show? That's kind of where my head went.
That's interesting because when I was looking this book up, I saw the Spanish translation. So, you know, it's like, translated into multiple books and you can see the different ones it's translated into and the Spanish translation is, my God, I'm so sorry, my Spanish friends, especially my friend who I know is fluent and she's going to listen to this. It was todos somos villains. Maybe it didn't say villains - I don't know what the Spanish word for villains is and I'm not going to look at it right now, but todos somos, I'm almost certain is we are all. We are all villains, not if we were villains. And I thought to like, your point, Richard isn't the villain. Alexander is usually cast as the villain and he ends up being the one to like really convince them. I mean, he didn't really actually, he's definitely the one who brought it up for sure. But I just thought that maybe that's more fitting than if we were villains. Still a great title. It is, it's actually from King Lear. That comes from that, but I just thought the Spanish translation was maybe a little bit more spot on. Yeah. That's interesting.
Alright, so we already talked about this, but Shakespeare plays a major role in this book. The actors all speak Shakespeare. They actually speak to like their inner dialogue. They speak to each other. It's a second language of them. And it's almost like Shakespeare is another character in this book. Totally.
So Colborne asked Oliver if he blamed Shakespeare for any of it, to which Oliver replied he blamed Shakespeare for all of it. It's like, what do you think he meant by that? I think there is a bit of, what's the word, deflection of responsibility by casting blame on this. I do also agree that Shakespeare is really the eighth member of their little group. They treat him as if he's there in the room with him in every instance. For example, I've got a quote here from Oliver Act 2 Scene 8 says, quote - you did your homework - I did. Shakespeare felt like their older and wiser friend, one they could not see, but whose ideas were always in their heads. End quote. So, is Shakespeare like that little devil on their shoulder? Yes, 100%. That's exactly what I thought of too. Do it. Kill him. Yes. I had that exact same thought of like, he is that little puppeteer pulling the strings on his cast. Yeah.
So after we hear James's confession to Oliver, do you feel like he was justified in killing Richard? Like, do you think when you read it, like, would you have said that as self-defense or do you think maybe he left some parts off when he was, you know, telling Oliver what happened? Do think he was trying to make it sound like self-defense? Are you asking me like, do I think he's a, like… Could he defend himself in a court of law that it was self-defense or do I, are you just asking like, do I think he was justified in killing him? I hope it's the latter. You're not a lawyer or a Shakespearean expert. I know I'm just a dude. I want to hear both. Okay. So which everyone you want to start with. So I think in James's confession to Oliver, he claims that he is afraid for his life. Richard was enraged by the events of the night. He had that look in his eyes. He said he was drunk. The two of them had a history of argumentative - argumentative? You are a lawyer. Now I got to keep that part of the script in the edit.
I think the blow to the head probably could have been classified as self-defense. If we go back to the question about in a legal sense, could he defend himself in the court of law that this was self-defense? Yes, because at the time he thought he - You know we have friends who are lawyers who are gonna listen to this - and they can fact check me, it's fine. That's what comments are for. This makes me so nervous. But standing around and all agreeing to let him drown to actual That's totally different. That's not self-defense, that's murder. I think it's manslaughter. Manslaughter, murder, fine, lawyer. Please someone fact check us. I agree, I totally agree. I think that if James hits him, runs up to the house, tells someone whether he lives or he dies, it's probably self-defense. But them standing around talking to each other and deciding to let him die is very different. Very different, even in a court of law. Yes. Dun dun. Nice.
Alright, so we know James, you know, did the deed, but Oliver finds out and Oliver basically immediately goes to Colborne because Colborne's at this performance because he's actually there to arrest James because Meredith figured it out. And she went to Colborne and told him immediately. So Colborne's there to arrest James and Oliver says he did it. So why do you think he does this? And then I'll just start with why do think he did that? I think it was love. And I think it wasn't until that moment where they were on stage acting as Edgar and Edmund in King Lear, where through the whole book, they talk about this unnamed thing that they've been struggling to define and identify like what this feeling is that he has or he thinks he has. And I think in that moment where he realizes what's about to happen and he makes his decision that he believed that, yes, he loves James. So he's going to do this in his mind in the name of love. But would you go to jail for murder for me? No. Well, that's a quick answer. And you wouldn’t either. Come on now. He didn't even pause.
It was also selfish love, not an act of kindness. James was clearly devolving from the heaviness of his guilty conscience. And Oliver really robbed him of that choice to relinquish that guilt and begin the process of healing from that trauma. I mean, we look back to his mental breakdown slash confession to Oliver - standing on the table in the library with the window open and loads of the lit candles everywhere, which seems like a terrible idea for a library. You really see how tortured James is by what he'd done and how he's conflicted to tell like he wants to tell Oliver the truth. But yeah, I think it was selfish of Oliver to do that. I agree. He doesn't give James the opportunity to release himself of that guilt and then to repent, so to speak, and to take responsibility for what he did.
Alright, so I know something that came up when we were discussing the book was the possibly intentional foreshadowing of the performance of Julius Caesar. So the students, after they audition, there's this bar in town that they go to, and they always sit at the same table. And then it's the person who performs last, it's their job to wait till the casting is up. And then they would like run back to this bar and tell everybody. Also, it's really funny to read this book because it's like set in the nineties and nobody has cell phones. So there's, there's several times when he's like, I didn't know how to get ahold of them. And I’m just like, you just fucking text them. So it's just, you just think how easy it is to get ahold of somebody now.
Anyway, they're waiting for this casting list to pop up and Alexander says, we don't need the casting list to pop up. I can tell you how everyone's going to be cast. Yeah and if I would have understood Shakespeare better, I think I may have caught this reference. It's definitely a foreshadowing. And what I mean by that is, or what I think I mean by that is they're all discussing these possibilities and there's a part in the book. I'll just quote a couple of lines from the book. I have it noted here, "Alexander pushes unruly black curls back from his face and said, 'Well, obviously Richard will be Caesar.' 'Because we all secretly want to kill him,' James asked. Richard arches one dark eyebrow, 'Et tu Brute?' 'Sic semper tyrannis,' James said, and drew the tip of his pen across his throat like a dagger. 'Thus always to tyrants.' Alexander gestures between the both of them and is like, “Exactly.” James will be Brutus because he's always the good guy."
So again, if I had known and understood Shakespeare more, you could read that as like a foreshadowing of the characters of who's going to die and who's going to kill him or who's going to take responsibility for killing him. How studious of you, Pritz Charming. I did my homework for this. I had to look up what sic semper tyrannus meant though. What does it mean? It's a phrase that conveys a warning against tyranny and the idea that those who oppress others will eventually face consequences and Richard obviously oppressed everyone around him.
So yeah, that's a great scene and Alexander is almost spot on with who he says he can cast and that continues until they get cast for Macbeth, which we've already talked about. And then all hell kind of breaks loose because now they're the rest in these different roles are a little unexpected and it leads to some pretty severe outcomes. Indeed. It does like death.
Alright, so the ending of the book, let's talk about that. Okay. So it is deliberately ambiguous. It is a, I don't want to say choose your own adventure, but I feel like it could be a choose your own adventure. Like, how do you want this book to end? What do you think? It leaves you hanging, so to speak, and wondering what happened, which is honestly probably one of the biggest reasons because I felt heartbroken after I read it the first time. And I wanted you to read it because I wanted someone to talk to you about it. Yeah. Alright.
So when I read the book the first time, I had a completely different take on the ending than when I read it the second time. Interesting. So when I read it the first time, I thought that James is alive, but he waded out into the water so that he made it look like he drowned himself because that was his way of releasing himself of the guilt and killing that version of James off. And now he's like this new version of James, but the tragedy, because this comes up at least once in the book where Oliver says that is how a tragedy like ours or King Lear breaks your heart by making you believe that the ending might be happy until the very last minute. So Oliver gets out of jail and we think that now James and Oliver can be together. We're happy. And then at the very last minute of the book, we actually find out James and Oliver can't be together because James is not the same James. He's a different person. He needs to move on with that part of his life. And I was heartbroken and I was convinced of that. I left a pretty thorough review about that.
Okay. So then I read it the second time and I looked up a couple of things that I, again, I'm not what I would say a scholar when it comes to Shakespearean tragedies. But I am a little psycho when it comes to things in books that I don't understand and I like to look things up and do my, little bit of my own research, so to speak. So that's what I did. So the last couple of pages of the book contain a passage from Pericles, which is in a letter that James leaves for Oliver. He gives it to Philippa or sends it to Philippa. And then once Oliver's out of jail, Philippa then sends it to Oliver. If you don't know the story of Pericles, which I didn't, so I looked it up and I'm going to give you a 30-second synopsis of the play. So it's a Shakespearean play that you actually think is a tragedy, but turns out to be a comedy. In other words, like a happy ending. It's not a comedy. Like we think of a comedy. This isn't Bridesmaids. This isn't Elf. This is just a happy ending. Alright, so Pericles thinks that for the majority of this play that both his wife and his daughter are dead. And at one point he sails out into the ocean to die because he thinks that everything he loves in life is gone. But he actually finds out that both of his daughter and his wife are alive. They are reunited. Happy ending.
So this quote that James leaves Oliver is from this play. And so that's when Oliver looks up the articles about James's death and he finds out that actually no body was ever recovered. And so then Oliver remembers that the last time he heard James speak this passage from this play, was on a beach in Del Norte, Del Norte, that's in California. That's where James lived. So Oliver needs to go find James and Del Norte. So this whole time we actually think the book's tragedy like the story of Pericles. Okay. But it's actually a comedy and they're going to get their happy ending.
So the first time you listened to it, you believed it was a tragedy. You still think James is alive, but James and Oliver can't be together. So therefore it's a tragedy. Whereas the second time you read it, you think due to this specific verse that James wrote for Oliver, that it's implying I'm alive and you can find me here. Therefore it's a comedy in Shakespearean language. Right. Because if James is alive, but can't be with Oliver, that would be a tragedy. Like you think it's going to be happy right up until the end. But I think the whole book itself has been a tragedy, but actually it's, they're going to get their happy ending. Interesting.
I have a totally different take than any of that. And I'm curious of your thoughts because it's darker. So is James alive? I don't know. But I think what's really infuriating is not having closure on something right. Like like Sheldon's inability to knock less than three times on Penny's door. I think this book is a tragedy. I don't think it's a comedy. And but I do waffle back and forth if he's alive or not. But so hang with me for a minute while I try to work my way through my thoughts on what I think happened. Maybe the note that James leaves for Oliver is a way of James reversing fates. And what I mean by that is everyone, including Oliver, is led to believe that he's dead. What if James is somehow forcing Oliver to feel a bit of the same torment that he went through 10 years ago, because Oliver really robbed James of an option to heal, to relinquish his guilt. And so he just held onto that to the point where it almost drove him mad and theoretically committed suicide. So what if over the course of that 10 years, he is built up a certain resentment for this fact. And now Oliver has this note. He draws an implication. He may still be alive but doesn't offer really enough information where it could be found. And is that the real tragedy for these two star-crossed lovers? He's now handing Oliver this piece of information that can never be resolved in the same way that his guilt could never be resolved because Oliver took that choice away from him when he admitted to the murder.
That is a very interesting take. I think that's real cruel of James and I just don't see that in his character arc. But I mean, I think that's a deviation or a stretch for his character, but it's also 10 years. I mean, who knows, right? Like what happened in the last 10 years? So, I definitely see and hear your point about James not being able to reconcile that guilt with him and within himself. I don't see him being that cruel because I think it was really clear that James also loved Oliver, but yeah, I don't know. mean, I definitely think it's interesting. I think it's an interesting interpretation of it. Yeah, it's out there in the world now to ponder and meander or noodle. For people to rip apart. As the Internet does. Yes.
So any last thoughts or final thoughts you have? No, I mean, I think the book is real deep. I bet if I read a third time, I would pick up things that I missed the first two times. But I definitely also think the book is just so beautifully written that I could see myself reading this again in the future. Yeah. I could see myself rereading it too. I don't feel like I would think that of a lot of books that I've read. I wouldn't want to reread, but this is one where, and especially if, not that I'm studious like this at all, but if I were to go like learn a bit more about Shakespeare and then have like come at the book from like different perspective, I think that could be an issue in too, but even without that, I could see myself rereading this, just recording this episode I was like, I wonder how much different I would have seen things if I would have read it a second time before recording. Yeah. I mean, I think that you don't even have to completely immerse yourself in Shakespeare. There's only like a handful that I feel like really have an impact on the book that if you were familiar with those, that we might even have a greater understanding of some of the author's references.
Anything else? Nope. Closing the book as they say. We want to remind everyone again that our next two books in our lineup are The Frozen River, which is a historical fiction novel. It's by Ariel Lawhon. And then Just for the Summer by Abby Jimenez, which is our first rom-com. And I know that Jon's going to love it. And as Jon mentioned at the top of the show, if you leave a review and then email us at booksiamakemyhusbandread@gmail.com with your address and then the review that you left, we will send you a show sticker and a button. I love that. Alright. I think that's it.
So who knows? Maybe this one will be the one your husband reads. Maybe - and he should cause it's really good. It's really good.
Alright. Bye. Take care. Okay. Bye bye then. you later. Hasta luego.