Different Life

Episode Summary:
In this episode, we explore the concept of the “third space” — a place outside of home and work where you feel connected, valued, and energized. While many people focus on productivity, routines, and personal habits, they often overlook the role that community plays in overall well-being.

The conversation highlights how modern life has gradually removed many of these natural gathering spaces, leaving people stuck in a cycle of work and home without meaningful social connection. Through real-life examples, including gym environments, coffee shops, and local communities, we unpack why third spaces are essential for both mental and physical health.

We also discuss practical ways to identify and build your own third space, emphasizing consistency, shared interests, and removing unnecessary pressure. Whether it’s a mastermind group, a fitness community, or a simple weekly meetup, creating this space can have a significant impact on your life.

Key Topics Discussed:
  •  What a “third space” actually is 
  •  Why most adults no longer have one 
  •  The connection between community and long-term health 
  •  Real-world examples of third spaces 
  •  Barriers to creating one (time, discomfort, consistency) 
  •  Simple strategies to build your own third space 
Chapters with Timestamps:
  •  00:00 – Introduction and podcast setup 
  •  02:15 – Defining first, second, and third spaces 
  •  04:30 – Creating community in a business setting 
  •  06:50 – The Dunkin’ Donuts example 
  •  09:00 – Why third spaces are essential for happiness 
  •  11:30 – What qualifies as a true third space 
  •  16:00 – Barriers to building one 
  •  20:30 – Examples and personal reflections 
  •  23:00 – How to start creating your own third space 
  •  25:00 – Practical tips and closing thoughts 
Notable Quotes:
  •  “The idea of a third space is really an idea of community.” 
  •  “It might be the happiest space in someone’s life.” 
  •  “If you don’t have something else, it’s work, home, repeat.” 
  •  “Money is for fulfillment — and community is one of the best places to spend it.” 
Resources Mentioned:
Connect With Us Here:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WholeHealthSolutions
Website: https://wholehealthsolutions.life/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wholehealthsolutions.life
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wholehealthsolutions.life
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/whole-health-solutions-sports-performance


Creators and Guests

Host
Gary Donia
Gary Donia, MSPT is a physical therapist and Chief Operations Officer at Whole Health Solutions and Sports Performance. With more than 20 years of experience, he helps individuals and athletes recover from injury, build strength, and improve long-term physical capability. Gary focuses on identifying root causes, creating practical plans, and guiding people toward sustainable health and performance. In addition to his clinical work, he coaches high school and Legion baseball, applying movement principles to develop resilient, confident athletes. He lives in Townsend, Massachusetts, with his wife Jessica and their two sons, and is passionate about helping people build healthier, more capable lives both on and off the field.
Host
Peter Brouillard
Peter Brouillard, DPT is the Founder and CEO of Whole Health Solutions and Sports Performance. As a physical therapist and strength coach, he works with individuals and athletes to recover from injury, build strength, and develop long-term resilience. Peter takes a whole-body approach to health, integrating exercise, lifestyle habits, and performance principles to help people exceed their goals and unlock their potential. His focus is on practical strategies that create lasting change, not quick fixes. He is passionate about empowering people to take ownership of their health and build lives defined by capability, confidence, and meaningful progress.

What is Different Life?

Most people don’t need more motivation. They need a different approach. Hosted by Gary Donia and Peter Brouillard, Different Life draws on years of experience helping people navigate pain, movement, recovery, and performance — but the conversation goes far beyond health alone.

We talk about:
• Strength training as a life skill
• Back pain, mobility, and injury recovery
• Pelvic floor health and durability
• Sleep, stress, hormones, and energy
• Performance and longevity over 40
• Discipline, habits, and identity shifts
• Parenting and modeling health
• Relationship-based healthcare

We discuss these not as isolated topics, but as part of a bigger question: What does it look like to live differently, not just try to live better?
If you feel stuck in patterns that no longer fit who you want to become, this show is for you. Because better often keeps you in the same cycles. Different changes your trajectory.

Gary Donia (00:01.172)
Well, welcome back to different life. No, we're back. Yeah. Nice. That is the new intro. Okay. Simple. It's easy. You can't just have it like nothing. I mean, we could just start talking. Yeah. You really just want to do the whole start talking thing, but I feel like people will be like, what the hell are you talking about? That's fine. Yeah. Whatever we want. I'm just going to say welcome back to different life. And that's what we did. I think we got it like a tag. Did we get a text yesterday from a listener? Yes. That was like, when are you guys going to figure out like the name of your show? I couldn't get the name right for three. So, okay. So we got the name right.

We're not going to finish with that. We'll just start with, welcome. Peace. To a different life. Okay, what's going on today, Pete? Well, we spent like an hour and a half yesterday trying to do this and every single time we sat down, something else happened. No connection. We're literally just about to talk. One of our therapists comes in with one of our clients.

walking down the hall with all of the equipment on the table. Yeah, it was a great adventure. So here we are the next day trying to actually do this. So we're in the process of trying to build, well, we are going to build our own podcast studio, but we're a few months away. So in the meantime, we just are like a roaming podcast show. Every background is different than the last. We literally went into a room in this building that we don't even own or rent. just like, well, this is open. Let's try this. That's clearly there. Let's just give it a go. Let's try that. So anyway, so

Today, I'd like to talk about the concept of a third space. So we've mentioned this. It's actually kind of funny because we've mentioned it in a few different shows. This will be the first time you and I have this conversation. And we haven't really had the conversation in depth and I wanted to flesh it out like a little bit further. However, I also learned yesterday that you didn't even know what the third space meant, but yet we mentioned it in like two shows. Yeah, fine. You think you would have said something. No.

Hey, what are you talking about? No, this is good. I actually prefer just hearing novel like information in the moment. Yeah, because I get to think through it. Sure. that's good for me. So okay, so I guess to talk about a third space, we should one would presume there's a first and a second space. What spaces are we talking about? Right. So so in your own life, yes, right. Like, if I just said to you, what is your first space?

Gary Donia (02:15.079)
What do you have, like just any kind of instinct around like what that might be, where that might be. It's a location. Like my home? Yeah. So first space is your home for most, for most people, right? It's where you You live every single day. Right. Your second space is for most people. So the things you spend a lot of time with, I guess would be work. So that's your second space. So that's, that's what's, you know, in the literature or whatever, you know, I guess.

I don't know, sociologist or a psychologist or whoever studies these types of things. Anthropologists. Anthropologists, all of those people define like our first space as the home, the second space as work. And now there's been more discussion and research. And one of our clients even gave us a recent article about this, about the value of a third space, which is essentially that other place outside of those first two, where you find like a home, right? Like another place where you feel heard.

scene where you're comfortable, where people know who you are. So we mentioned in one of our old episodes, the concept of cheers, you know, the show, the old show, Cheers, you know, where everybody knows your name. We've talked a little bit about how we've tried to create that here, like at the place that we work, for the people who come here, right? That they, think many of them view this as a third space for them, because when they walk in the door, everybody knows who they are.

And we all say hello and it's a community. so the idea of a third space is really an idea of community. And I think this is an important conversation to have because there's less and less and less of this in our world today. And what I want to talk about today, and we can go wherever you want to go with this is, well, one, do either of us have that in our own life currently? And if not, how do we or how can we help people figure out how to go about

finding that in their own life or creating it in their own life. Can I start with a little story? Sure. Before you, do you have anything you wanna say right I mean, I have so much to say about this. Okay, I just wanna say a little story. So this is why I'm thinking about it lately. Is this what got you started on it? This is what got me started on, yeah. So obviously I've recognized that we do it here. We create it for other people, one. I don't think we knew we were doing that right away.

Gary Donia (04:36.927)
I think we always understood the value of community, but I don't know if we didn't intentionally go about some of the things that we put into place were designed the way it was built, the way things were designed, the culture that we try to create did lead to that, and we wanted that, but I don't think we viewed it as creating It wasn't because of that purpose, but it happened due to it, and I think some of that is like the smaller space that we've created. It leads to a closeness.

Yeah, I would agree. Like if it's too big of a space, if you lose some little more dispersed. And we've talked about that in our business meetings about like expansion and what that looks like. we've always, you know, the instinct is to get more square footage, like into like a bigger, bigger location. And then we always kind of pull back and say, well, we're going to lose, we're going to lose this feeling of community and closeness. The moment you lose the community, you lose the specialness. Yeah, I agree. So anyway, so because of the, we've done here,

It made me think a little bit about more about that too. I don't think I currently have it in my own life. You know, I have work and I have home. You have two spaces. the two spaces. I don't think I have a third space. don't think hockey counts. So I don't know. So we're going to, we'll talk about it. Um, probably not. I don't really like most of the people that you keep saying that it's Like that I spend time with that. You know what mean? That I have different, there's a few people like in each of those, like

my kids sports. There's a few families that I always really enjoy, but for the most part, the community of sports, youth sports is not one I want to spend a ton of time in because they're, they tend to be a little toxic these days. So anyway, we can talk more. Yeah, I'm going to push back, continue the story. So, so the, the other day I went in, I have a bad coffee habit, you know, like super bad throughout the day, you know? So, so that's, that's another, you know, we've already talked about that. I'll do it at five. Yeah.

So I often go into like that local Dunkin' Donuts. And there's one in particular that I go to and more times than not when I go in there, there's a group of probably six and I know it right away when I first pull in the parking lot, because they all have like kind of old pickup trucks. There's like six like older guys, probably 70s, 80s, whatever. They're always in there. At different times throughout the day, they're not there all day long. I just happen to catch them at different times throughout the day.

Gary Donia (06:54.943)
So they clearly have a schedule like we're gonna meet up on this day and it's almost every day or at least multiple times a week. And they sit around this like long table that's at this one particular Dunkin' Donuts and they're just like, just hanging, like just talking, like laughing and telling, probably telling old stories. I don't really, I'm only in there for like 10 seconds. But I've noticed them the last couple of times. I think they, I know they've been there a bunch of times. I don't, I didn't really, I noticed them but now I'm like paying attention to them and I'm like, well that's, this is their third space.

Like this is, they probably just don't work anymore, you know? So maybe it's technically their second space. Just friends or old coworkers or? Yeah, just people that they know, but they've clearly gone out of their way to make sure that this is part of every day for them. And they really enjoy it. There's always a lot of smiles and laughs. And they're just like these older guys having a great time. And I'm like, I don't think I have that. And I wonder how I create that or what can I do to do that like going forward, right? And so, so as I think about us and as I think about

the Dunkin' Donuts guys. I'm like, okay, so this is a conversation. Other people are doing this. I don't think I do it. So anyway, so that's what made me start thinking about it. So where do you wanna go? I'm gonna let you talk now. Everyone's probably like, let Peter talk, so I'm gonna let Peter talk. Well, there's just so much value to that. I think sometimes too, the third space can, I don't know if I wanna say unfortunately, but home and work are often associated with stress at times. Can be, yeah. It can be, right?

And then this third space is this thing where like, God, thank God, like I get to go to this place where like everything is always fun. Because you get to curate it exactly to the thing that you like, right? Because you don't really choose your family. Like you chose it at a time when you were very young and you developed into this thing and sometimes you can develop into toxic families and maybe the stress around it. Or maybe you don't really get to choose your coworkers. And so for many people who find themselves unfortunately in this situation with their work and their home life,

are not as rewarding or fulfilling or stress-free as they would like, these third spaces are unbelievably important. For many people, it can be the happiest space. The happiest space. We've heard oftentimes from our clients, say, like, I love coming here, right? Like, I look forward to this every time. I always feel welcome, everybody, you know, so on and so forth. And so we've certainly curated and created a third space for our community of people.

Gary Donia (09:14.215)
And I fully believe I couldn't agree more with you because otherwise, like, what do you do? Like, it's like the go home, drink a beer on the couch and watch TV. Like if you don't have something else that you're doing, it's kind of, yeah, there's some other like variable there that needs to be filled. And of course, like much like with anything, we can create these intentionally and they're individual to each person. So mine tends to be like, my third space is there's two things that I like the most. it with people? And is it physically active?

Yeah, another one is intellectual. like, I'll play a lot of board games with Mike, you know, with my peers, my friends or my family, right? Or I'll do something physical with them. But there's always some version of that with people doing a thing. Yeah, right. Yeah. And then so in that way, there's a ton of fulfillment. But I think a lot of people will also glom onto things like martial arts, right? Or swimming clubs or like this, they'll go to a public gym, and they always go at the same time. And it's like their social club, right? Right. So

I couldn't agree more. think they're unbelievably important. But I'm wondering for you, I want to dig a little deeper for you, why you don't think hockey is your third space because clearly so you I've defined this before as like domains like one of my three, three domains. It's like work, family, physical activity hobbies. Yeah. For you, you have work family. And then I would I would say that hockey is an extension of your family because it it revolves around your children. But there's also like the clear hobby of like your coaching job like like with

I kind of view that as a little bit like work at this point. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but you choose it though. So I guess like being at like a, so yes, we started practice this week. It's like 30 degrees and windy and miserable every day, but I do love being out there with like the kids. And so I do view coaching as like a happy place. Like I do love being on the baseball field. I don't think the stuff with like going to watch my kids play, I wouldn't view that as a third space because one, the space changes, I guess theoretically like it's a hockey rink, right?

even though the hockey rink changes all the time, because we travel around and we go to different places. It is a happy place for me because I'm watching my children, but I would still just view that as an extension of family. You said it's one of the happiest places. I love it. But it's not always just the people, like I said, youth hockey or youth sports can be pretty toxic. People screaming at refs and complaining about coaches. So hate some parts of it. You also really love some of the people that are your people there, right? I do. But what I love the most about it is just watching my kids.

Gary Donia (11:37.752)
Like it's really a self, it's more of a selfish individual, which is typically like, think kind of how I mostly live my life. It's like, you even things you mentioned like board games and puzzles and stuff like that. So we've attempted to do this, but again, a lot of that happens inside of our own home. So again, it's not really another, it's activity. So if we were to do that and- How would you define a third space? you could say for you personally, what would that look like? So I think in general,

even not just for me, but like the definition of it is a place that we go to that is like just you're spending a lot of time there. There's people there that you like, there's the things that you like. So for you, maybe it's maybe it's jujitsu, you you go into the jujitsu place and everyone knows who you are. And it's a place you go all the time. And so I don't know. That's why I'm not sure if you even have one. There are like things that you do that you like to do like you like to go for bike rides with your friend on the weekend, you like to do like different things throughout the I don't know if there's another location and maybe there is in your life that you go to on a

consistent basis, like week to week or every other week that you would consider like, this is a place that makes me really happy. Because when I walk through the doors, all of these things happen. It's an activity that I like, it's people that I like, they all like me, I feel better when I leave, I get just enjoyed like when I leave the actual physical space. I'm like, this was like, like, like reinvigorate. There's physical space at the same time where you see the same people.

I think so. I think that's kind of the definition of it because that's your first and second space are basically the same thing, The first base is your home, typically the same people in and out of there all the time. So you differentiate them from hobbies also based on location and people. Yeah. And so going back to the show Cheers, which is often used and when people talk about this, it's like a physical location of a bar, right? Maybe not the best place to have a third space, but for those people, was like a, it was home for them, right? They walk through the door. Everybody knows who each other is.

they'd have conversations, they sit around, you this case, you show up for the people, you're showing up for the people, you know, it's a physical location that's different than your other two spaces, but it's you're going there and you look forward to it. You feel better when you leave there because you, you were, yeah, you know, stimulated by, by being there. You have more energy when you leave there and you look forward to returning. Like for instance, we have a, like a client who comes here and she loves to rock climb and I hear her talk about it.

Gary Donia (13:56.256)
And it feels to me like that's her third 100 % as well as climbing is a massive third space for people as well as coming here. Super like I think she views this now as a like a maybe she has a third and a fourth space. She found community here, but she definitely has this community of rock climbing. so so for me, you know, like I don't think like, I don't think going to like Planet Fitness counts. You know what I mean? Because I'm not intentionally going there for the people I get

You're going there for the exercise. Yeah, I'm going there for the exercise. I'm not going there for, cause I'm like, Oh, I need to go to my happy place. Cause it's definitely like, as people, anybody who knows me, like exercise is not my happy cause you have to I don't think I currently have one nor do I get together with like a group of guys. You know what mean? Like we don't, talked at one point about maybe creating like a little mastermind thing, right? Like where, where like a handful of us back at our old place would get together. We never, we never could get it going, but like, I think that would, I think I would enjoy that.

I think I would struggle to like show up for the first couple. You would especially struggle to show up for strangers. Yeah, they Yeah, right. So so I'll define strangers gives me anxiety, like just thinking about it. Just you saying that I was like, I was like, no, he's gonna invite me to. So there's okay, so let's let's think through this then. So I agree with your general definition of it is that there's like a thing that you show up to with a time and a place with an activity or whatever it is that you are personally interested in.

and then you see the same people and you develop these friendships and bonds over time. Yeah, and it's this thing that's consistently just a place that you go. Yeah, right. And some consistency. But I think about like the guys at the VFW who show up to play like, like a horseshoe. Yeah, you know, I drive by them a lot. Same group of guys they share. There's a commonality probably of they're all veterans. Yeah, or least many of them probably are. They love playing some cornhole, but it's not really about the cornhole. No, it's about the or the horseshoe or whatever. yeah, it's like it's like this.

is the group of them they all, you know, have their share in it and they enjoy it they look forward to it every week. I think golf is probably like golf league, you know, with people like that. I think part of it too is I have trouble with stuff because for some of those things, it doesn't feel productive to me in my brain, you know, I'm like, oh, like I could, you know, I could go do that or I could like work on this thing. you know, that's a tough one. And I tend to like just kind of be being alone and working on my thing. Like I enjoy that. So I have trouble leaning into

Gary Donia (16:19.807)
I don't really have a hobby. I don't know. But do you actually have a space in your life? The closest one is Jiu Jitsu. It's also tied to family and that I do with my daughter, right? Twice a week. But it kind of meets your criteria. It's a place, I'm doing an activity, there's always the same people. So over the months I have developed closer bonds. I wouldn't call them friendships, but you get used to people, you know all their names, they're excited to see you, so on and so forth.

You can imagine a situation like that, like over the years, you start to develop friendships, right? I think a third space is unbelievably integral to society in its current form today because, you know, I mean, just look around, we have a lot of trouble as adults making friends, like new friends. And I think the only real way to do that is like places like this, where you consistently show up to, and then you are now creating.

bond, spending time with people that share common interests around probably the same age, so on and so forth. And then you can eventually end up developing friends, a place of belonging, feeling, tribe. Yeah, so I think like one of the easiest ways to do that is to show up to a place that you enjoy. Right? So whatever that is, like, for instance, I love bookstores. If I were to show up to a bookstore, maybe this that's about maybe a bookstore that has a cafe.

Yeah, it'd have to be a place that people hang. Right, like so Barnes and Nobles, right? So like that has like cafes inside of them or something or a small town. You would eventually see the same people all the time. Yeah, if you showed up on the same day at the same time. You'd probably see the same people like over and if you're willing to like you could like start. If you're willing to engage. Conversations, yeah. That's probably one way to do it. You know, or if you're gym, you know, if you really want to make the gym the place, if it's...

really a place people like. think you have a couple that other people may define as a third place. I just think that you have some mindset struggles with calling them that because they're they're not quite the definition. When I don't know if I do them consistently enough, like in the sense that it's the same time, same place, same people. Like for instance, you mentioned like the hockey rings. I mean, that's different every time other than the people that's on my kids teams. Jim is kind of social. But when the kids stop playing hockey.

Gary Donia (18:28.723)
Yeah, that's going to go away. Like, you know, my older son doesn't play sports anymore. Yeah. You're going to have a problem. Yeah. so I've thought about this for you. When my younger son finishes, I already have a problem. I don't really, when I, when it came to a point when they started driving, kind of why you work so much and I didn't have to take them to practice anymore. was like, what the hell am going to do? What do I do now? I got to spend more time talking to this asshole. Right. I generally, yeah, I don't, it never crosses my mind to go somewhere. It's very strange. Yeah. You like to be at home.

I just like to be at home. So I think I struggle finding a Thursday, but I, but I know the value of it. I mean, we've talked in the past, you and I have talked and we, and on our old podcast, we talked about the blue zones and the importance of like, that's basically one giant third space, right? Like if you want to think of it that way, it's like a giant community. Everything they do is together. You know, they eat together, they, they work in the yards together, the gardens and you know, everything is together. So it's a constant community all the time.

And so, and we know the value of that by studying the people who live there because they live for a long, long time. So I feel like it's something that I should try to figure out at some point. name, name two things. So you, so you mentioned a bookstore. What's another thing? Like what's something that you would pair to your interests? It's really just like a hobby that other people do at the same time. Like what would that be? Yeah, I don't really know. Not yet. I haven't really thought that far.

You like reading. that's the bookstore comes to mind. You like thinking through. I like reading, but I also like, you know, so I like talking to people about books. So coffee shops always come to mind for me because it has two things I like. Coffee, books. You know what I mean? Like those are two things that I like. So you have to find like a hybrid coffee library. Right. We have a client here who owns her own coffee shops. You like this. Like I dream to be her. Like every time she comes in, I'm like, she's got the grade. And she has her own problems, I'm sure.

You know, we've heard her, you know, talk about some of the problems that there is in running a place like that. In my mind, that's like Mecca. Like that's like the ideal. Like I'm just like, man, that seems so great. Like you just kind of like hang. I actually like talking to people. know you do. I just don't like to go like seek them out. You're so funny. If they're in my immediate thing, like I'll find a link and have a conversation with them. You're also not used to it. Okay. Imagine work.

Gary Donia (20:46.887)
as a third space, imagine we made no money here, but we did this because we really enjoy it, which we do. We just happen to make money here. This is a giant third space that we, but we define it as a job and you really enjoy all the people that you get to like interact with here, right? So it would be the same function in a third space. It would just be way less time. It might be like two hours a week at the best. And over time you would develop these relationships with people. But I think your struggle is that initial

I don't want to leave the house and I don't want to do small talk with these like losers. Not losers, just people I don't know. understand. So I think those are the two biggest barriers. For sure the showing up is the best because with work you have to show up. I mean I would want to show up here anyway but either way say I hated it here like you're paying me to be here I need to show up or I don't have a job. With home, it's home. You kind of have to show up. You have to show up. You have to make yourself do the thing. You're present.

But whether you like home or not, doesn't matter. have to shop. With a third space, it's a choice. Do you want to set some parameters around it then? So how would we do it? So you'd first define the thing that you'd like to do? So I think what I would enjoy the most, be honest with you, so outside of the bookstore or coffee shop thing, is going back to the idea of mastermind. We have this group of guys that we're all like friends, that you and I are friends with. It's the coffee shop. It's the Dunkin' Donuts with the old men. Yeah. Which you would kind of hate a little bit because it's not physically active.

Yeah, could we make it physically? But I mean, there's probably a way to add some variety to it. But that group, think, like I find like they each are in different stages of like life. So I think what I like about that group of people that we used to work with, and that we don't really I don't have, well, it's starting to develop here a little bit is that

I was kind of used as like a wise old man, you know? And so they come to us and you now too, because you own a business and you have these experiences. And I'm now old. Yeah, they come to us with like their problems. We're known as like the guys that can help them or whatever. So, but I think there's things that those people probably have that we could learn from. Of course. So I would like to get together with that group. We just never seem to really be able to make it happen. You know what I mean? And I don't know how we make that happen. So what we do. I some ideas. So I too would like that.

Gary Donia (23:02.623)
whenever you try and coordinate like four or five people, obviously it becomes harder, right? What if there was, so what if we went with, let's reach out. Let's see if we could restart it. Let's see if there's a weekend or a day that like four of them could show up to, four of us. And just see how it goes. And just see if that's something that we could start. I'd be super open to that. So I would like that. I think that would be fun. Like I like that, I know them, but we've gone our separate ways the last two years. So I feel like there's a lot.

a few of them, like it's like literally become like a text here and there every couple of months. You know, some more than others. We used to see those people every day. They used to be our second space. Right? So now they can become like our third space. now they're our no space. Yeah. They're like, well, right now they're kind of a no space. Right? So they were the second space. We used to work with all of these people. Now we can maybe try to make them into a third space. I would join you on that. it takes time and a little bit of effort and you know, I'm sure we can make, somehow make it active like here and there. What if we tried like a Saturday night?

Yeah, I mean, I'm open to when I really have nothing to do. So let's figure it out. I'm really pretty. Although I do have a lot these days, I coach and outside of your 70 hours a week at work. know. Well, yeah, it's funny. Now I go, I start here at like five in the morning. Most days, sometimes between five and six. I'm here till two. I immediately go to a baseball. I didn't get home from the baseball field until seven last night. Yeah. We've been finding ourselves lately around seven or eight at night.

doing like extra flowy work, at eight o'clock. Yeah, so I basically worked from seven to nine and went to bed. It was great. I had some Chinese food too and that was nice. All right. Well, anyway, my point is that, you know, so people don't think I'm a complete loser. I do actually have things to do, but during that time, like oftentimes on the weekends and whatever, I certainly have more time than I used to because I have less parental responsibilities than I used to. So let's do that. But I think this is good. So I think in general,

for like helping other people do this. I think those are some like good general ideas. It's like, well, one, do you have it currently in your life? If so, like lean into it, I guess, because it's super important. So if it's already there, just lean into it more or whatever. If you don't have it, I guess. Think through what do you enjoy? What do you actually like? And then is there a community that you could seek out and go do a thing and money, money.

Gary Donia (25:29.405)
This is what money is for. Money is for your ultimate fulfillment and pleasure. And if you, if you have some money to spend, please do it on community. It's one of the most important things I think for all of us in order for our own like overall fulfillment in life. identify the thing you like, identify if there's a community, show up, be consistent, see if that's something that you want to do. And it can probably add a lot of value to your life. Yeah. And I think a few other little tips would be like, don't make, don't overcomplicate it.

You know, like for us, for instance, like once a month. It can't be every Saturday night. know, like we all do have family and other things, right? So maybe once a month or maybe once a quarter, who knows? You start with something that people can manage. And then if it turns into more down the road, then great. But otherwise like you start small so can be like successful and then, you know, people can show up and you set it far enough in advance. And it's not, it doesn't have to be like, it literally can just be to show up to,

hang out. It doesn't have to be we're going to accomplish this thing today. Totally. You know, I sometimes there's things like that, you know, when it comes to like a mastermind group or networking group or something like that. In these cases, I think it's better just to have like sort of no pressure and just like you show up and you just kind of hang for an hour, set some defined limits around it, like we're going to be there from five to six, everybody can go home. You know, I don't know. That's how I think of it. If you take away some of those things, it becomes a little easier to show up. Totally.

Anything else on that? No, it's good. Good conversation, buddy. Well, we will try to find our third space. And now you know what it is, which is exciting. It's very exciting. All right, peace. See you.