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The format for This or That is the two of us – Paul Grote and Scott Sanders – discussing topics in the business world, pop culture, movies, sports, and politics. We look at the topic from various angles, highlighting the merits and uncovering the flaws, all while having some fun along the way. It will be up to you, the PEN Listener, to choose, either This or That.
00;00;03;05 - 00;00;11;29
Speaker 1
Being from the p m studios in Chicago, you're listening to Diesel that with your hosts told Variety. I'm Scott Sanders.
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Speaker 2
I'm going to give it to Skip.
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Speaker 3
Boys and girls, welcome to the latest episode of this are that on the podcast Entertainment network. I am one of your host, Scott Sanders, alongside Paul Brody. Paul.
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Speaker 2
Hi, Scott. How are you today?
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Speaker 3
Doing well. Happy to be talking football.
00;00;26;27 - 00;00;27;17
Speaker 2
Let's start.
00;00;27;19 - 00;00;27;29
Speaker 3
With that.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely.
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Speaker 3
Made it to the through the long, dark winter of.
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Speaker 2
You know. That's right. Yeah.
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Speaker 3
The season is back there this on Labor Day weekend to.
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Speaker 2
Get back to the gridiron.
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Speaker 3
Yep. And we do want to get back to getting in touch with the show. So that's a horrible segue. But please do reach us this or that podcast entertainment icon or through the AP and listener hotline eight through three pods that. That's 8337637638. Our last episode we talked about college football and super conferences versus traditional conferences. Now we are turning our attention to the National Football League.
00;01;05;08 - 00;01;24;09
Speaker 3
Right. So today's debate is we try to persuade you over to our side. You're starting from scratch. You're building a roster. You want to win a championship. Do you start in the trenches, build inside out, or do you start with skill players building outside in Paul? Which side do you want to advocate for?
00;01;24;12 - 00;01;27;25
Speaker 2
Build inside out trenches all the way.
00;01;27;27 - 00;01;30;06
Speaker 3
Start with the trenches. Yes. The big uglies.
00;01;30;07 - 00;01;31;03
Speaker 2
The big uglies.
00;01;31;07 - 00;01;39;22
Speaker 3
There you go. Okay. What? What makes you say that? That is the way to approach Mr. Brand new newly minted GM and the expansion.
00;01;39;23 - 00;02;14;17
Speaker 2
Oh, boy. Yeah. This. The franchise may not last a long time, but I'm honored to be in this role. I can for the next 30, 30 minutes or so. So, you know, the the kind of the the main argument is just that, you know, as as you watch football, for those of you that played football, which I did not in high school, you can you can observe over time that you know the the best teams really you know in factually have have strong offensive and defensive lines.
00;02;14;20 - 00;02;31;02
Speaker 2
You know I go all the way back to those early days of watching football and I didn't realize it at the time as a kid watching, you know, Walter Payton struggle I mean, won all those yards despite not having a good offensive line. But but the proof was that the Bears never made the playoffs.
00;02;31;07 - 00;02;33;17
Speaker 3
You're saying really sorry was not a good lineman.
00;02;33;24 - 00;02;53;09
Speaker 2
Hey, you know what? I've Matt Reeves. Sorry. He's a good man. And I think he might have been a good lineman. But somehow or another, you know, together with the whole group, they they were not among the tops in the national Football League. But then you look at the Dallas Cowboys and, you know, they had Tony Dorsett down there, also a great, you know, great runner.
00;02;53;11 - 00;02;58;04
Speaker 2
But they went to the playoffs every year because they had strong, you know, up front people.
00;02;58;09 - 00;03;00;03
Speaker 3
Yeah. The defensive line. Yeah.
00;03;00;06 - 00;03;23;16
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then on the defense as well. So you know my you know, so it's no more, you know, so baseline kind of foundational argument. It's no more complicated than that. It's just, you know, you can make a you know, if you give a quarterback an extra one second of time in the NFL, you, you know, you watch football all the time, you know, 1 seconds in eternity for a a passer.
00;03;23;16 - 00;03;45;16
Speaker 2
You know, if he goes from having two and a half seconds to having three and a half seconds, you know, that's that's you know, a wide receiver can get another, you know, 2010 to 20 yards down the field in that in that one second. These guys are so so fast so so and the offensive line and the defensive line create those spaces And on the defensive side, obviously the opposite is true.
00;03;45;16 - 00;04;01;24
Speaker 2
If you if you can get to a quarterback a second, faster, fewer guys are going to be open and so forth. And so, you know, guys that are good become great guys that are great, become, you know, Hall of Famers sort of thing, just on the basis of of the Lions being stronger.
00;04;01;26 - 00;04;20;02
Speaker 3
So it's funny that you bring up sort of the trenches of the old Dallas Cowboys. And yesterday I heard a story about editor two tall Joe. Mm hmm. So he went to Tennessee State. Tennessee State playing Notre Dame. Right. And so, you know how he got the nickname Too Tall was, you know, he went off for football. The equipment manager gave him the longest pair of pants he had, but they only came, you know, halfway that size.
00;04;20;02 - 00;04;23;11
Speaker 3
And, you know, he said, I'm sorry, you're just too tall.
00;04;23;13 - 00;04;26;17
Speaker 2
I remember going, I'll add to Tall Jones. I think Randy.
00;04;26;17 - 00;04;27;20
Speaker 3
Liked. Yeah, Yeah.
00;04;27;20 - 00;04;29;03
Speaker 2
I think I had their football cards.
00;04;29;07 - 00;04;43;03
Speaker 3
Nice. All right. Yeah. So? So that is an argument for that, right? You know that you can say sort of games are won and lost in the trenches. Yeah. And I don't argue against that point that games are won or lost in the trenches. I'm just thinking about this in the context of how do you build a team?
00;04;43;03 - 00;05;05;11
Speaker 3
And to me, the strongest argument I can make to start with skill players first is you've got to get the most important position on the field right? That's quarterback. Yep. And so you start there for a couple of reasons. One, it takes a while for a quarterback to become good in the NFL to understand the difference in the game between the pro game, in the college game, and for them to mature enough to be the team leader and all of that.
00;05;05;11 - 00;05;28;17
Speaker 3
And so that takes the longest time at least. You know, from my perspective. Therefore, that's where you have to start so that the whole team comes together at the right point. Right? So so that's the argument for starting with the quarterback. The second argument for starting with the quarterback to me and it supplements this idea of getting the quarterback right is it's so hit or miss whether you got the quarterback right or not.
00;05;28;17 - 00;05;47;12
Speaker 3
You know there was for instance the year that Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning came out one with a glorious Hall of Fame career, one of the best, you know, and one of them was professional washout. Right. And so, you know, you have all these stories of first round, you know, talent going bust in the NFL or being mediocre at best.
00;05;47;19 - 00;06;05;20
Speaker 3
And so, you know, if you need two or three bites of the apple to get a good quarterback, you'd better start now because you can do the quarterback last and you miss. All the sudden the rest of your team has edged out before you get the quarterback right and you're talking about Walter Payton and the Bears that never went anywhere until very late in his career.
00;06;05;25 - 00;06;13;19
Speaker 3
That's because the Bears never got the quarterback position right? Yeah, they have. Illini and Vince Evans were not the ones that were traded to the Promised Land.
00;06;13;19 - 00;06;14;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah.
00;06;14;19 - 00;06;15;25
Speaker 3
So you got to start with the quarterback.
00;06;15;25 - 00;06;33;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, fair point. And what's interesting about this particular debate is that, you know, is there truly a team? Are there truly if you're a real, you know, NFL, GM, are you truly going all in one direction or the other? Right. I mean, other teams that really just say, hey, you know what, we're going to go all in on just O-line and D-line.
00;06;33;20 - 00;06;47;02
Speaker 2
We're going to build from the inside out and that's it. We're going to skip, you know, skill players or, you know, on the contrary, are there teams that say, hey, you know what, forget about the trenches, we're going to go all skill players, one wide receivers, running backs and quarterbacks and that's it.
00;06;47;04 - 00;07;02;11
Speaker 3
Probably not well and so you know the lifespan of a GM in the NFL is short right Right. You don't have time to do this the way we are. But here in our hypothetical, we have a very patient team owner who's a lot of the time we build the team, right?
00;07;02;14 - 00;07;24;12
Speaker 2
Yeah. So so in other words, if you know, if we had to if we were forced to go one direction or the other, you know, you're saying skill. I'm saying, you know, trenches and you know, the quarterback is, you know, the most important player, you know, on the field. There's there's, you know, no, no argument there. But but even even even there, you know, like here's here's one argument.
00;07;24;18 - 00;07;45;13
Speaker 2
If, you know, most draft picks are, you know, a quarterback are not going to be Peyton Manning. Okay. You know, most quarterbacks are not going to be the elite Hall of Fame level superstars. So most teams are going to be playing with a guy who is average somewhere around that average, you know, somewhere within that normal curve of average.
00;07;45;16 - 00;08;02;19
Speaker 2
Those guys are going to benefit more. You know, not that, you know, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers, whoever is not going to benefit from a better offensive line. No doubt that they will. But if you're the guy who's kind of in that, you know, average place, which is where most of the quarterbacks are going to be.
00;08;02;21 - 00;08;04;02
Speaker 3
That's the definition of average.
00;08;04;02 - 00;08;10;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, yep, yep. They're going to they're going to they're going to need that that great offensive line.
00;08;10;05 - 00;08;19;07
Speaker 3
So I think maybe to your argument there, you know Kirk Cousins kind of comes to mind. Yeah right He's benefited more from the people around him. He has, you know, from his own talent.
00;08;19;09 - 00;08;34;10
Speaker 2
Right. He's not going to he's not going to do it on his own. But with that, with a strong offensive line, he can hang in the pocket, He can make some things happen. And so my argument is. But yeah, okay, fine. You're a fool to pass up on the guy that you think is going to be the next Peyton Manning.
00;08;34;12 - 00;09;08;11
Speaker 2
But for the most part, you know, the quarterback that you're drafting, you know, somewhere between, you know, 10th and, you know, midway through the second round, any of those guys could be NFL's starters. And so you're not kind of disrupting your whole draft, you know, because you've got to get the number one draft pick a quarterback. You're you can still focus on building that line because whenever you get that call and by the way, when you're going for that kind of, you know, that mid-level average quarterback, what's going to turn out to be an average quarterback, it doesn't matter if you go in this year or next year.
00;09;08;13 - 00;09;26;08
Speaker 3
Okay. So you're making me go in a different order here with my arguments because you just sort of nicely transitioned me into one of my points there that where you draft matters, right? So, you know, you're a bad team, you're starting from scratch right now. We're going to see this play out. The Arizona Cardinals are tearing it down to the studs.
00;09;26;13 - 00;09;48;11
Speaker 3
Right. You know, Colt McCoy, by all accounts, should have been their starter this year. While they're waiting for Kyler Murray to recover from his ACL, tear. Right. But the cardinals want to rebuild from scratch. And so, in essence, they're tanking, you know, going with a rookie quarterback and releasing the presumptuous starter of Colt McCoy because they're consciously trying to lose games to get that high draft pick.
00;09;48;11 - 00;10;09;20
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know, to try to get Caleb Williams from USC as the quarterback or Drake me from North Carolina because quarterback so important. So that's my argument here that a bad team a bad team that needs to rebuild and has an either or of inside out or outside in their drafted high and that's where you get a franchise changing quarterback.
00;10;09;26 - 00;10;28;13
Speaker 3
Right. And so you have to do that while you can if you're drafting in the teens because your team is decent because you've built the trenches out. Right. You know, you're eight and eight because you've got good trenches and no skill players. You're seven and nine. You know, you're drafting, you know, 10 to 20. Like you said, they're right and you're not getting a difference maker quarterback.
00;10;28;13 - 00;10;56;12
Speaker 3
They're you're getting a game manager at best. You're lucky to find a starter if you're drafting in the team's in the NFL. Not everyone gets a Brock Purdy in the last round. Yeah and so you know if you're starting this rebuild you have to get the difference making quarterback and the only place to get that person is drafting at the top of the draft and so you know that's why you know just by default you have to start with the quarterback so you're getting them when you're drafting them at the very top of the draft.
00;10;56;12 - 00;11;24;28
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah, I hear you. I guess I'm just so I suppose the basis of my argument is that you don't necessarily have to have an, a Hall of Fame quarterback to win the Super Bowl. It sure helps. It sure helps. I'll concede that. But, you know, there are cases, you know, Baltimore Ravens, you know, did it maybe most famously, you don't necessarily have to have that ultra elite level quarterback you can get you can win a Super Bowl.
00;11;25;02 - 00;11;42;18
Speaker 2
It like he can even be above average. So so I guess my point, if I was the guy, the guy saying, hey, we're going to go all in this year, we're going to just do a line and D line and that's it. All right. I'm going to pass up some good quarterbacks this year, knowing that next year there's going to be more good quarterbacks and maybe there's no Hall of Fame level elite guys.
00;11;42;20 - 00;11;56;07
Speaker 2
But somewhere in that first round or second round, I can draft a quarterback and that guy is going to be good enough to play behind an all pro offensive line to to lead me into the playoffs and make a deep push.
00;11;56;09 - 00;12;17;19
Speaker 3
So it sounds to me a little bit like you're you're Jerry Jones, right You got Dak Prescott in the fourth round and he's trying to surround him with, you know, great trenched talent. Right. The recent Cowboys offensive line is kind of famously good, led by Zack Martin and their defense with Micah Parsons, you know, two time All-Pro, you know, Rookie of the Year kind of thing.
00;12;17;26 - 00;12;29;01
Speaker 3
You know, it's helping them on the defensive trenches and so they're you know, they're using a fourth round pick and Dak Prescott as their quarterback. And so, you know, it sounds like you and Jerry are, you know, taking the same approach to building out your roster.
00;12;29;03 - 00;12;41;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, you know, Jerry Jones is probably the first time he's ever been compared to me. I mean, I hope he feels okay about that. But sure, I mean, that's that's that's the that's the approach that I'm that I'm talking about. Yeah.
00;12;41;19 - 00;12;46;25
Speaker 3
You drink Johnnie Walker blue, right. You know that's the choice of your little Johnnie Walker Blue.
00;12;46;26 - 00;12;50;15
Speaker 2
That's right. That's right. It reminds me I need to send him a bottle. Yeah.
00;12;50;17 - 00;12;52;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, he needs this. A new one, right?
00;12;52;04 - 00;12;53;06
Speaker 2
Yeah. No kidding.
00;12;53;09 - 00;13;14;13
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. So, all right, we're I think we're at a good time for us to take a break. Let's do it through my list, and then we'll get back to our debate. So if it's okay with you, Paul, we'll head out here. Please do get in touch with the show. 833 pod net. That's 8337637638. Or email us at this or that at podcast entertainment dot com.
00;13;14;15 - 00;13;17;09
Speaker 1
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00;13;17;12 - 00;13;45;29
Speaker 4
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00;13;46;01 - 00;13;49;11
Speaker 1
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00;13;49;18 - 00;14;20;04
Speaker 4
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00;14;20;06 - 00;14;26;01
Unknown
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
00;14;26;03 - 00;14;33;00
Speaker 1
And now back to this. All that on the podcast Entertainment Network.
00;14;33;02 - 00;15;07;13
Speaker 3
And Megan, welcome back from the break here on the Podcast Entertainment Network. You're listening to this or that with Paul Brody and Scott Sanders. We're debating whether you build a four football franchise, an NFL franchise from the outside in using skill position players first. Or do you build in the trenches your offensive and defensive line? First. So before the break, we talked about, you know, some of the sort of high level points, good points about, you know, why you would want to, you know, get your quarterback right first or, you know from the trenches argument is that, you know, seven solid trenches is going to make everyone else all the skill position players perform better.
00;15;07;15 - 00;15;25;29
Speaker 3
Right. And so that's the logical place to start. You know, I think fairly you can take either one of those. And there's examples in the NFL of teams doing each of those. Right, as we sort of continue here with our list. You know, one thing that I thought of is that, you know, these skill position players attract other talent.
00;15;26;01 - 00;15;48;24
Speaker 3
Players want to go play with other talented skill players. Right. So if you've got the quarterback right, it makes it easier and free agency to attract good wide receivers, you know? So if you've got a good running back, you know, then you know, a good run game, then it's easier to attract a quarterback. And so this idea that, you know, talent attracts talent to me is an argument for getting the skill position players right.
00;15;48;26 - 00;16;04;20
Speaker 3
You know you don't have a defensive tackle goes to a team because they've got another good defensive player, they've got a good edge rusher, you know, kind of thing. Right? And so this idea that talent attracts talent among the skill position players is more relevant than it is among the trenches. So that's an argument for getting the skill position players first.
00;16;04;23 - 00;16;32;02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, I could easily argue that having the good players in there also makes the team very attractive for a running back wide receiver. Running back if you're, you know, you know, going to go, you know, free agent route, then why not go to a team where you're convinced that they've got some real road riders in front of you and you're going to however many yards you gain last year, you've got a really good chance of of gaining even more yards.
00;16;32;02 - 00;16;50;07
Speaker 2
So, you know, yeah, quarterback you're always going to if especially if you're a wide receiver, you want to know that there's a guy who's going to get the ball to you for sure, but not if you think he's going to be sacked big because the left guard is like the left tackle is no good, you know? So yeah.
00;16;50;09 - 00;17;03;26
Speaker 3
You know, I hadn't thought of this and I prep for the show, but you know, this also kind of my argument applies to coaches too, right? You know? Yeah. They don't have the quarterback situation straightened out. I don't want to go, you know, trying to deal with that mess. Yeah. So even in sort of free agent coaches, so to speak.
00;17;03;29 - 00;17;08;09
Speaker 3
And when we talk about the team we're trying to build. Yeah. Problem it comes with the coaching change right.
00;17;08;09 - 00;17;09;01
Speaker 2
Yeah yeah yeah.
00;17;09;02 - 00;17;10;11
Speaker 3
Quarterback right there is.
00;17;10;14 - 00;17;30;27
Speaker 2
Yeah coaching is a really interesting animal. There might be a future podcast because the way coaches are selected in the net and then the NFL's has changed so much. I mean it used to be, you know experience was was really valued now so often was coaches that recycled like you get a chance you get your three years of you can't figure it out maybe maybe 3 to 5 years then that's it.
00;17;30;27 - 00;17;39;16
Speaker 2
And then, you know, the new coaches now come out of like the assistant coach range or, you know, young guys out of college. It's really interesting. It's fascinating how how it's changed.
00;17;39;18 - 00;17;41;26
Speaker 3
Yeah. You have to have some kind of innovative offensive.
00;17;41;26 - 00;17;43;27
Speaker 2
Mind, correct? Yeah. Yeah.
00;17;44;03 - 00;17;56;13
Speaker 3
You know, when, you know, widely respected as a coach for the Falcons for a while things went south there and he's still an assistant on the Cowboys as far as I know. You know rather than getting another crack at it even though he was very well respected.
00;17;56;15 - 00;18;14;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Dan Reeves went to a couple of different places. Joe Gibbs, even Ditka won a couple of places. Right. And now it's like, you know, Sean McVay is a new model. You know, you're 28 years old and you know how to design a super high powered offense on paper. You got the job. It's fascinating how it's changed.
00;18;14;03 - 00;18;55;07
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Next point I have, you're in favor of obtaining your skill players first before building out the trenches is I think that the the gap between player X and player Y is wider among the skill position players than it is in the trenches of really good left guard, you know, is only modestly more productive for you than a decent left guard, whereas a really good quarterback or a really good wide receiver, a really good cornerback on the defensive side, the delta there, the gap between that really good guy and the average guy or the, you know, second tier guy is so wide that that provides a competitive advantage for you on the field if your
00;18;55;07 - 00;18;58;29
Speaker 3
cats are better than their cats. Yeah you know and that happens more at the skill position.
00;18;59;01 - 00;19;29;25
Speaker 2
Right and that that that's probably true that the I think the counterpoint is finding that guy that truly is that much greater than everyone else is is really difficult. Yeah and so that kind of generational talent guy there you might only have two or three or maybe five of those guys in every draft and that's it. So to kind of, you know, hold your draft hostage for, you know, hoping for the generational, you know, talent is is a risk.
00;19;30;00 - 00;19;30;09
Speaker 2
You know.
00;19;30;09 - 00;19;32;05
Speaker 3
The more reason to start sooner trying to find them.
00;19;32;05 - 00;19;39;24
Speaker 2
Then okay. Well that assumes that you've got one of those top five or six though, and usually you don't. Yeah.
00;19;39;27 - 00;20;06;29
Speaker 3
I had some two more points here that I've got. One is, you know skill position players cost more right You know quarterbacks wide receivers these are $20 million quarterbacks are more than that. Yeah. You know good wide receivers you know $20 million player good corners get paid right one one question I have power so before you not fully making the point you know when you think about skill player versus trenches where do you put a good edge rusher Joey Bosa type player right.
00;20;07;02 - 00;20;15;22
Speaker 3
You know the what family you know the edges Kahlil Mac you know is that a skill position or is that a trenches position.
00;20;15;24 - 00;20;37;06
Speaker 2
Really interesting thought you know I that's a a skilled player who plays in the trenches you know that I would say probably if you really going inside out I mean if you're going all the way to inside out and you're talking about nose tackles and and guards first right before you go to the defensive end, you know.
00;20;37;08 - 00;20;40;17
Speaker 3
Yeah. So call them. So I was just thinking about in terms of who gets paid. Right.
00;20;40;20 - 00;20;44;09
Speaker 2
Yeah. The end defensive end say they get paid. You're right. They do. Yeah.
00;20;44;11 - 00;21;01;21
Speaker 3
So you know this idea here that skill positions cost more, you know, so you better start early with them. You know the counter argument, you know to target your side of it myself is that you know well look, if you're talking about, you know, taking enough time that your quarterback's on a second contract, then all of a sudden you're eating up a huge amount of cap space.
00;21;01;21 - 00;21;23;28
Speaker 3
Right. But I think that you're never going to fit those people into your cap structure if you don't already have them. Right. You know, you're not sort of sitting there saving 20 million because this coming off season, I want to get a good wide receiver. So, you know, I better structure it that way. Yeah. Teams always operate so close to the cap that they can't fit a giant free agent contract in.
00;21;24;01 - 00;21;39;28
Speaker 3
So you better already have those big contracts on board so you can, you know, sort of mess around with the lower paid trenches guys. Yeah. Fitting them in within the cap rather than. Yeah. Trying to say, hey look, we better have the discipline to save enough money to fit the high price quarantining under our cap.
00;21;40;00 - 00;22;01;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, that is true. It's so I guess you're saying that, you know, so if you, if you pay the your skill players first because the trench guys earn less money and that's just what the market rate is, you can you can kind of, you know, stockpile more of those later than you could the other way around.
00;22;01;25 - 00;22;02;20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
00;22;02;23 - 00;22;05;21
Speaker 3
This coming offseason you can find 5 million for a decent.
00;22;05;22 - 00;22;06;14
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;22;06;17 - 00;22;09;00
Speaker 3
Yeah you know you're not going to find 25 million for a.
00;22;09;02 - 00;22;09;27
Speaker 2
Right.
00;22;09;29 - 00;22;11;02
Speaker 3
Wide receiver one.
00;22;11;08 - 00;22;30;03
Speaker 2
Yeah I mean I guess the only other way to look at it would be if you are going from inside out you're starting with trenches aside from the quarterback you know so you should mean if you can draft like you can draft a running back out of college and that guy can be great his first year right. That's how it's kind of turned out.
00;22;30;05 - 00;22;54;18
Speaker 2
Receivers you know I would concede that takes a little bit more time especially today's offenses for these guys to learn and to adjust to, you know, NFL secondaries and how to run routes and all that kind of stuff. But you can catch lightning with a receiver quarterback is the biggest gamble and I would never recommend that a team you know hey all the pieces are in part are in place We just we just need to draft this quarterback with our 18th pick and we'll be fine.
00;22;54;18 - 00;22;56;13
Speaker 2
You know, that's not the way it usually gets.
00;22;56;16 - 00;22;59;01
Speaker 3
If that's what he.
00;22;59;03 - 00;23;02;11
Speaker 2
Wants. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Got a leg.
00;23;02;13 - 00;23;17;08
Speaker 3
Got like, oh I'll like to play this week. He's got to play. Yeah. So you've had to make some you know, to me the argument against or I guess you know in an ideal world you've got a quarterback on his rookie deal, right.
00;23;17;08 - 00;23;22;18
Speaker 2
You know, not his rookie deal like third year guy or whatever, you know. So he's great. He's figured it out.
00;23;22;21 - 00;23;26;01
Speaker 3
But you had to pay your quarterback. Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of threading the needle.
00;23;26;01 - 00;23;28;28
Speaker 2
That was Seattle like seven or eight years ago, right? Yeah.
00;23;29;00 - 00;23;50;21
Speaker 3
Russ Cook Yeah, Yeah. So the last part of my argument, Paul, and you kind of helped me make it there, that there's greater precision, greater precision required for speaking skills, not creating precision required for skill players to work together. Right? That quarterback and wide receiver need to be on the same page. That corner in the safety need to know where the other guy is going to be.
00;23;50;23 - 00;24;09;01
Speaker 3
And so all of that to me because it takes so much time for them to acclimate to each other, which is why you see so few mid-season trades for a wide receiver that ever works out. You know, you never see a trade for a defensive back and he all of a sudden snaps into your scheme and everything is, you know, perfect the rest of the season.
00;24;09;04 - 00;24;26;16
Speaker 3
It takes time for these people to get on the same page with each other to gel, and therefore you better start that clock ticking as soon as possible. So they come together at the right time there. And I think that's a very strong argument for starting with a skill position players to give them the time they need to gel.
00;24;26;19 - 00;24;39;06
Speaker 2
Yep. And you know who else you don't usually see mid-season trades for at all? You say wide receiver trades that work out. You never see a midseason trade for a left tackle or a guard or a center. So you start.
00;24;39;06 - 00;24;42;06
Speaker 3
Talking in going left tackle here.
00;24;42;08 - 00;25;00;17
Speaker 2
So I mean, and and, you know, when you talk about jelling, you know, obviously, you know, offensive lines are kind of famous for needing to spend time together to kind of know, you know, when when when that road grader goes, you know, a step left, I'm going to go a step, you know, slightly left or whatever these guys do.
00;25;00;17 - 00;25;18;29
Speaker 2
They figure it out. Yeah. And so while well, I don't disagree at all that it's, you know, timing and, you know, great receivers and and great quarterbacks as great as they are, they still have to figure it out. It'll be it'll be interesting to see how Rodgers does with the Jets this year On that note honestly you know.
00;25;18;29 - 00;25;19;25
Speaker 3
It's a good case that yeah.
00;25;20;01 - 00;25;20;25
Speaker 2
Yeah yeah.
00;25;20;28 - 00;25;30;20
Speaker 3
Does it immediately do the skill position players on the jets you know step up. Yeah. Are they immediately more proficient because they've got a gunslinger back there. Right.
00;25;30;20 - 00;25;48;02
Speaker 2
So we'll have to check back in on this one at a future podcast. But you know, I would you know, I would I would agree with what you are saying, that they require, you know, time to kind of know each other. But but then I will kind of let the evidence show also that the same is true for offensive lines especially.
00;25;48;03 - 00;25;53;21
Speaker 2
And to the extent that we don't even see those guys being traded once, once they they've established themselves.
00;25;53;21 - 00;26;09;23
Speaker 3
So I kind of stepped in it there. And, you know, like this is what you never want to do in a courtroom when, you know, I'm saying it in my argument there of the skill position, players needing time to gel without thinking of the counter of. Yeah, but what about the trenches? You know, because your point there of offensive line is kind of a checkmate to that point.
00;26;09;23 - 00;26;21;27
Speaker 3
Right. That that of all the different sort of position groups on the field that's the one that does take the longest to jump. Yep shame on me there so all right so anything else you got to add or can we get to our pass pumpkin?
00;26;22;00 - 00;26;30;15
Speaker 2
Um, I think I'm just looking through my notes. I think I'm, uh. I'm good. Yeah, I think. I think I'm ready for pass or punt.
00;26;30;20 - 00;26;53;04
Speaker 3
All right, So passer punt this time, you know, that's our yes or no game that we do each time and, you know, try to come up with some clever name for, you know, matching the episode. So pass is going to be yes or punt is going to be no. All right. So what I have for you this week, Paul, is are these actual quarterback names, not current quarterbacks, but if these people played quarterback before.
00;26;53;07 - 00;26;54;29
Speaker 3
Okay. Got six and nine for you.
00;26;55;02 - 00;26;55;10
Speaker 2
Okay.
00;26;55;12 - 00;27;03;00
Speaker 3
All right so I've got Xavier blood saw is that a real quarterback or a fake.
00;27;03;02 - 00;27;04;03
Speaker 2
That's punt.
00;27;04;05 - 00;27;21;12
Speaker 3
No Xavier blood so I could never come up with that. Wow. You played it small Texas college in the aughts 26 to 29. And Xavier is spelled x apostrophe Z, AVR x Xavier blood. Wow. For a quarterback. Oh, he's a blood.
00;27;21;19 - 00;27;23;05
Speaker 2
Did he make it to the NFL?
00;27;23;08 - 00;27;30;00
Speaker 3
He did not. Okay, I found it. You know, I smirked when I saw that because he played in Texas. And I think of Bloods. I think of.
00;27;30;00 - 00;27;32;06
Speaker 2
Dallas, Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
00;27;32;08 - 00;27;38;21
Speaker 3
So what's playing in college is perfectly appropriate. Yeah. All right. Steel giants.
00;27;38;23 - 00;27;42;19
Speaker 2
Steel Giants. I'm going to say pass.
00;27;42;21 - 00;27;50;29
Speaker 3
He's got a steel set, a chance on him. He is real. He played at Iowa State Steel G. I'll pass on that one. You said punch.
00;27;50;29 - 00;27;53;09
Speaker 2
So I thought I said pass.
00;27;53;11 - 00;27;53;24
Speaker 3
Oh, you did?
00;27;53;28 - 00;27;55;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, I got the first one wrong.
00;27;55;28 - 00;28;11;18
Speaker 3
And so, you know, here I'm stepping in it again. This pass sounds like a no, right? You know, Right. Pass or punt. Yeah. You know, passes the Yes, but pass sort of like Yeah, I'm passing on this one. So Steel Jansen was a quarterback from Iowa State so yeah it's a real, real name. Real good name for a quarterback.
00;28;11;20 - 00;28;15;07
Speaker 3
Yes Right. Very sunny sex killer.
00;28;15;10 - 00;28;22;00
Speaker 2
Sunny, that sounds like a Scott Sanders special. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say punt.
00;28;22;07 - 00;28;32;21
Speaker 3
Okay. Pass. He was a wow back for Washington in 1972, huh? So probably before your time, Sonny six killer. Yeah. How's that for a great quarterback?
00;28;32;21 - 00;28;36;28
Speaker 2
Wow. Yeah, that sounds like maybe he should be a defensive end that we talked about earlier.
00;28;36;29 - 00;28;41;17
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. You know, killing, you know, six being a touchdown, right?
00;28;41;19 - 00;28;44;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. Maybe she was going to say, yeah, free safety or.
00;28;44;26 - 00;28;46;03
Speaker 3
You know, Sonny six kill the.
00;28;46;10 - 00;28;47;27
Speaker 2
Cornerback or something. Yeah.
00;28;48;00 - 00;28;49;29
Speaker 3
Colt. Magnum.
00;28;50;02 - 00;28;58;08
Speaker 2
Colt Magnum. I'm going to Boy Colt Magnum. That's, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll punt.
00;28;58;10 - 00;29;00;15
Speaker 3
Punt. Okay. You're, you're correct again. Cool.
00;29;00;15 - 00;29;01;13
Speaker 2
All right.
00;29;01;15 - 00;29;16;17
Speaker 3
I saw the name Colt McCoy and he's going to know who that is. Yeah. Yeah, I went with Colt Magnum, and you got that right. All right. Magnum is not as far as I know, a real quarterback in the history of football. All right, all right, sake One sharpshooter.
00;29;16;19 - 00;29;30;25
Speaker 2
Oh, boy, That's a punt. You're taken the name of one of the top running backs in league today and throwing in what would be a great quarterback. Last name. But am I right or wrong? Is it a punt?
00;29;30;27 - 00;29;46;17
Speaker 3
Is that what your. Yes, yes, yes. As far as I know, there is no Saquon sharpshooter out there. No. So you're correct again with a punt on that one. So I like the idea of six killer. I was trying to come up with some kind of name there. Yeah. Like sharpshooter for a quarterback. Yeah. Yeah. I was looking for the alliterative name.
00;29;46;17 - 00;29;55;25
Speaker 3
That starts with a necessary. Yeah. One sharpshooter would, would be a great quarterback, but he doesn't exist. All right. The last one I have General booty.
00;29;55;27 - 00;30;01;22
Speaker 2
General booty. Oh, I feel like you couldn't make that up, so I'll. I'll pass. I say pass. Yeah.
00;30;01;24 - 00;30;24;18
Speaker 3
So I couldn't make that up. So there's general booty real. You say he is he is indeed. He is actually Oklahoma's quarterback right now General booty and put up 70 plus points in their game in Oklahoma's game yesterday So General booty is indeed a real person. Wow. I was trying to find out and I didn't do enough research to find out there was a Josh David booty.
00;30;24;23 - 00;30;43;28
Speaker 3
Okay. Years ago. And so I'm wondering if this is a sibling. Oh, yeah. There is indeed a general booty, huh, roaming the gridiron these days. So Xavier Bledsoe's true steal chances. True Sonny. Six killers, True Colt Magnum was not. One sharpshooter was not. And General Booty is. You got the majority of those, Correct? So good job. All right.
00;30;43;28 - 00;30;44;19
Speaker 3
This week's edition.
00;30;44;26 - 00;30;45;00
Speaker 2
Yes.
00;30;45;03 - 00;30;46;04
Speaker 3
No game pass or.
00;30;46;07 - 00;30;47;20
Speaker 2
I win the usual prize. Yeah, the.
00;30;47;20 - 00;31;07;10
Speaker 3
Usual prize is bragging rights as we win in the next episode. Yeah. All right, So challenge of trying to stump you. All right, next time we get together, so. All right, So our two most recent show is one about college football and this one about the NFL. If you haven't heard the college one now, please go to the podcast Entertainment Network or wherever you download your podcasts and listen to the episode just prior to this.
00;31;07;17 - 00;31;23;11
Speaker 3
As we get into the best time of the year for sports fans in the US, as we get into football season, Thank you for listening to this or that on the Podcast Entertainment Network. We will see you in our next episode. Poverty and Scott Sanders this week that hey.
00;31;23;17 - 00;31;43;09
Speaker 1
Hey you want to stay informed of the episode from your favorite shows sign up for the P and Listener club at WWE W dot podcast entertainment dot com so you can make it off when you're down to. Thank you for listening to today's episode of this little.
00;31;43;12 - 00;31;49;19
Unknown
Side yet make it on which you want to do.