"Rebel Mothers" challenges the stifling institution of modern motherhood and reclaims mothering as an act of liberation. Each episode we’ll explore the struggles and expectations mothers face in a world built to exploit them, unveil the systematic institutions that create these challenges, and develop strategies for dismantling these oppressive systems. We'll shed light on the intersectionality of motherhood, addressing the unique struggles faced by women of diverse backgrounds. And we’ll hear inspiring stories of fearless women who are redefining the narrative of motherhood.
Podcast - Boundaries in Motherhood
Hello! So, my favorite thing about making this podcast is getting to research topics that I, myself, need help with, and this whole notion of boundaries, especially in motherhood, is one that I find really…confusing. On the one hand, I totally get the need for boundaries. When I’m coaching moms, we talk about using motherhood as a way to reclaim personal agency and autonomy, and learning how to utilize boundaries can be a powerful tool in empowering women. And the beauty of mothering is that it offers us COUNTLESS opportunities to practice these next level skills. I know that women have been socialized to prioritize everyone else first and I think we could absolutely do a better job of saying no and learning how to set boundaries probably helps with that. I think learning about personal agency and autonomy is important, and definitely something I want to teach my kids. There are people out there who somehow seem to drain time and energy and I want to be protective of that, especially as I am trying to create a body of work around maternal scholarship.
On the other hand, we are already living in a hyper-individualized world that really celebrates the rugged lone hero who is self-sufficient and sometimes when I read about boundaries some of the rhetoric seems like it’s less about personal agency and more about that idealization of individualism. Humans are social animals, we evolved to live in community and in relationships and dependence on one another. So how do we maintain boundaries without shutting people out? I truly believe that humans need more connection right now, not less, and I think Capitalism has positioned us so that we see everything as an exchange, and Boundaries feel like a way to protect ourselves from being cheated in the exchange, right, it sets us up for this feeling like, “if i give you X, my time my energy whatever, that means there is less for me, so I need to establish limits so that I make sure that I get something in return so I don’t lose out.” Is that the best way to go about it? Is there a binary between the good of the individual and the good of the collective? And if so, are boundaries the way to go about solving that?
These are the questions I’m asking today, and we’re going to center it around boundaries in motherhood. Because that’s the really tricky one. I can set boundaries with my husband and co-workers all day long, but how can I set personal boundaries with my children, who at one point in their existence were literally a part of my body? My kids who are still completely dependent upon me for their survival - I mean, yes of course, if I were to disappear tomorrow their dad would absolutely step up and everyone would survive just fine, but kids are still dependent on at least one loving, attached parent for years. What places do healthy boundaries and personal agency have in the realm of motherhood?
I do think it’s true that the narrative of modern motherhood asks that we center the child instead of the mother, which can result in an exhausting amount of emotional and invisible labor. And the system of patriarchy, both internalized and external, demands that women put everyone’s needs above their own, all of which combines to make it very, very hard to be a mother these days. So today we’re going to break down what boundaries mean, especially when viewed through a feminist perspective. Boundaries aren't just about saying 'no'; they're about reclaiming your space, your time, and your voice in a world that sometimes forgets the power of a woman's autonomy. We'll explore how setting boundaries is an act of self-love and resistance against the expectations that society places on us as mothers. We’ll also explore the intersectionality of setting boundaries. How do issues of race, class, and gender intersect with the boundaries we set?
Of course, self-help books about boundaries have been sold to mothers and women for decades as the magic answer to all our problems. If only we could just set better boundaries, we’d finally get our husband to do the dishes without being asked, and earn the salary we deserve, and have a healthy relationship with our mother-in-law, and our children would go to bed without any fuss. Sometimes it feels like “setting boundaries” is just another thing to add to the mental load for mothers.
I don’t think that setting better boundaries is the one magic answer to solve everything. We’ll talk today about how we are operating in a world that asks us to be boundary-less, then turns around and says, “well of course you’re exhausted and overwhelmed and overstimulated and burned out, you just need to set better boundaries!”
I think it’s important to note that I am writing from, and most of my listeners are located in, the United States, a land that has been divided up into private, ownable pieces of land that require fenced boundaries. The whole concept of creating “my land” and “your land” which of course leaves some people with “no land,” has seeped into our behaviors and actions in ways we probably can’t fully comprehend, but I guarantee our obsession with personal boundaries is related somehow. Perhaps there’s a world where even the notion of personal boundaries doesn’t exist because there’s not reference for it, there’s no need to create a divide between me and you.
So how do we hold it all? How do we exist in a world that asks us as women and mothers to be completely selfless, but also to set boundaries to protect our time and energy, while also dismantling the systems that created this all in the first place!
I don’t have all the answers, but today’s podcast is a start.
And if you’re interested in diving more into this topic of boundaries, I’ve been thinking of creating a free workshop or mini-course around boundaries, so if that’s something that interests you or if there’s anything in today’s episode that resonates with you, drop me an email at susie@susiefishleder.com and let me know!
Ready to go? Let’s dive in!
First let’s talk about how setting boundaries helps women increase their sense of personal agency, and their autonomy.
What is agency?
Here is a definition from an essay from the year 2000 that Personal agency refers to quote “the sense that I am the one who is causing or generating an action” end quote. It’s the ability to make decisions that align with your values, desires, and aspirations. A person with a strong sense of personal agency perceives herself as the subject influencing her own actions and life circumstances, right, she feels like is in charge of her own life.
Someone who does NOT have a strong sense of personal agency can feel powerless, where decisions about your life are made by others or dictated by societal norms rather than your own values and desires. They might feel frustrated, disconnected to their own identity, or trapped in a life they didn’t choose. I see this a lot with new moms, the demands of a newborn can be so much more overwhelming than they thought it would be, especially if they don’t have a lot of community support, that it feels like they don’t have any power over their own life anymore, everything is dictated by the needs of this tiny little human, and that can be super debilitating to some women.
Autonomy is the ability and freedom to make the decisions and choices to shape one’s own life. Autonomy goes hand in hand with personal agency, where individuals have the right to make decisions about their bodies, lives, and relationships without external influence or coercion. This includes career choices, relationships, and personal beliefs. Autonomy is a fundamental aspect of human dignity, acknowledging each person's capacity for rational thought and the ability to lead a life that reflects their unique identity.
So Personal Agency is more about the sense and understanding that you are in control of your life, and autonomy is more about the external environment that affects your ability to make those decisions. Laws and policies shape the parameters within which individuals exercise their agency, and social norms influence the acceptability of certain choices. For women, autonomy is particularly significant in challenging historical and societal norms that may have limited their freedom to make choices independently, and achieving true autonomy involves not only cultivating a really strong sense of internal agency but also navigating and challenging external structures that may restrict or empower their choices.
Setting boundaries is a crucial step in developing both a sense of personal agency and the autonomy to create the life you want to live. But of course, it’s not that easy. Both agency and autonomy, the sense that you can make choices to control your own life and the actual ability to do so, have been historically constrained or outright denied for women, people of color, people with disabilities, entire indigenous populations, and many other marginalized groups for thousands of years. And it shows up differently for women of different races, right? White women were often socialized into acting like they are weak, fragile creatures who depend on men, and in fact were often taught to use their proximity to white men to create a false sense of agency, whereas the history of racial trauma and the reality of racist laws and policies have absolutely shaped women of color’s ability to make decisions about their life.
So when we are Mastering the art of setting boundaries, we have to remember that we’re working in a patriarchal world that has told us that woman aren’t smart enough to make our own decisions, we’re just not that good with money, women aren’t very good at leadership, we’re too emotional and silly, we should probably just make sure we marry a man who will take good care of us. We’re told that women are sinful, and there is a divine higher power that has designed us this way and commanded us to submit to our husbands.
And in patriarchal motherhood, we’re also set up to believe that motherhood is our highest calling and we need to put everyone else’s needs before ours, especially our children’s. We’re told that we should prioritize mothering above all else, 24/7, nothing else should be as important.
And this is why setting boundaries is a crucial act for rebel mothers! We are modeling a different way of living for our children and creating new rules for what it means to be a mother. It’s an act of defiance toward a patriarchal world to stand up and say, “I am going to determine the actions I take and I’m going to make sure they are aligned with my personal values.”
But how do we do this? How do we set appropriate boundaries and enforce them? Well, first let’s talk about what boundaries are, and what they aren’t.
What are boundaries
Wikipedia says that Personal boundaries are established by changing one's own response to interpersonal situations, rather than expecting other people to change their behaviors to comply with your boundary. So boundaries are not something you can enforce on other people, it has to be completely enforceable by you. Which I feel sounds really good in theory, but is sticky to define and enforce, especially with children, so I really want to dig into this more. Because, like, what’s the difference between setting boundaries and establishing consequences for behavior?
Let’s start briefly with setting boundaries with other adults, because I think that’s easier. So I can understand that if I’m setting a boundary with someone, I am deciding what actions I want to take in response to someone else’s behavior. I can set a boundary that I am not going to reply to emails after 6 pm. That's family time and I'm really busy and I want to be present with my kids. I can announce my rule to everyone and I’m not in control with whether they decide to respect that or not. People can still email me, but it’s up to me to establish that boundary and keep it. That’s an easy one.
Or let's say you have an adult family member who tosses around slurs and you’ve made it clear that is unacceptable. You don’t actually have any control over what THEY say, but YOU can say things like, “I will not tolerate that kind of language around my children, I have told you before that these specific words are inappropriate and if you’re not able to stop saying them, we will be leaving.” There’s a gazillion different examples of boundaries you can set.
But now let’s get into setting boundaries as a mother. I think this one is hard for many women because it’s so easy to fall into the martyr mother trap. Right, you give up everything for your children because there’s a sense that there’s some moral goodness attached to being the selfless mother. This is part of that perfect mother myth that we’re challenging.
There are many different boundaries that mothers can set, and the specific ones that will be most important will vary depending on the individual's needs, values, and priorities. However, some common examples of boundaries that mothers might set include:
Setting limits on their time and energy. This might mean saying no to things like volunteering at the kids’ school or picking up another project at work. It could also mean setting boundaries around how much time the mother is willing to spend on housework or other tasks. It might look like setting aside some dedicated time where someone else cares for the children so mom can focus on her dreams outside of motherhood.
Setting boundaries around their physical and emotional space. This might mean refusing to allow others to touch them in ways that they don't want to be touched, or to speak to them in ways that are disrespectful or hurtful. It could also mean setting boundaries around the amount of time they are willing to spend in social situations or other activities that drain their energy.
Setting boundaries around their finances. This might mean setting limits on the amount of money that the mother is willing to spend on certain things. It could also mean making sure that the mother has a budget and is sticking to it.
Setting boundaries around their children. This might mean setting rules and expectations for their children's behavior, or refusing to allow them to do things that the mother feels are unsafe or inappropriate. It could also mean setting boundaries around the amount of time that the mother is willing to spend with her children, or the amount of responsibility that she is willing to take on for their care.
Here’s where motherhood is such a great way to level up. When I talk about motherhood as a path to higher consciousness, this is what I’m talking about. You want to learn how to set boundaries and protect yourself? Have some children, they’ll give you countless opportunities to learn that skill.
But here’s the thing, whether we’re setting boundaries with our children, partners, co-workers, family, whoever, it has less to do with any of them and everything to do with ourselves. Setting boundaries is my way of centering myself, prioritizing my time and actions to be aligned with living my most authentic life that I was put here on this earth to live. Boundaries are less about keeping people out and at arms length and more about keeping your time, your energy, your vital life force in and centered around YOU. It’s about loving yourself first.
And this is where we get to talk about how when it comes to setting and keeping boundaries, it doesn’t actually start with the boundary. It starts way earlier than that, on what do you value in life? Your boundaries are meant to protect your time and energy so that you can live an intentional life. Go back to the identity episode and examine your top values - what values are you currently living and which ones are maybe restricted somehow? Where are you spending time and energy on things or people that aren’t aligned with your values?
Before you’re able to set boundaries, take some time for self-reflection and try to understand your values, priorities, and limits. This helps you start from a place of authenticity. Because hey, the reality is that sometimes setting boundaries is hard and feels shitty. Let’s get real about the guilt that can come with setting boundaries, or the fear of retaliation or being shut out of the group. Because yes, setting boundaries in motherhood can be hard. But I think it’s helpful to step back a bit and realize, it’s actually going to be hard either way. Let’s look at a really common example from someone who was committed to attachment parenting when their children were really little but now they’re running into some boundary issues. Let’s say you want your preschooler to stop climbing into bed with you every night. You’re feeling resentful that you can’t get a good night’s sleep, and you want to have intimacy and privacy with your partner again. You feel like you tried everything, you got back up with them and walked them back to their room over and over again, you tried the little alarm clocks with the colors that tell them it’s time to get up, nothing has worked and here they are, still coming into your room and climbing into bed with you. And there’s a part of you that actually does love it, their sweaty little hands that wake you up in the morning and the smell of their head when they cuddle you and you know they’re only going to be little forever and surely one day you’ll miss this. And honestly, you’re just so tired, and you know you’ll actually finally get to go to sleep if they stay and how long is this going to take anyway, so it’s just easier to let them stay and sleep with you and then the next evening the resentment hits all over again. THAT is hard. You are already doing the hard thing. Setting boundaries is hard, and getting resentful at your child every night is hard. So hopefully you can have some grace with yourself about it because, yes, motherhood is hard.
But if it’s going to be hard either way, can you sit and get clear with yourself about what you actually want, and then make a decision and stick with it? In this example, maybe you decide, hey I actually do want to co-sleep with my toddler, there are more pros than cons in this situation. Sometimes it sucks but it’s important to me so I’m going to decide that if they come into my bed at night I’ll let them stay and cuddle and we don’t have to fight about it anymore. And you can decide that you’ll do that for a period of time, 3 months or whatever, and then you’ll stick to that decision for that time period. This might require some clear communication and support and with your partner who might agree or disagree with you on this decision.
Maybe y
And this is why setting the boundary is actually the last step, because you have to be really aligned with your own personal values and how you want your life to be before you can take the actions you need to create that life. If you’re feeling a lot of ambivalence, like, “ooh, i just don’t know, maybe it’s fine that she sleeps with us, but gosh it’s frustrating,” you’ve got to sit down and get quiet with yourself and find that inner voice that tells you what it is you’re really looking for. You have to listen to your emotions, which can tell us a lot about how we really feel underneath all our social conditioning.
The two most helpful emotions when dealing with setting boundaries are feeling anger and feeling guilt. There’s a difference between feeling slightly resentful or annoyed and feeling blinding rage in your body. Anger is a powerful emotional signal that a boundary is being crossed, it’s a visceral response to a perceived violation of our values, space, or autonomy. Often women have been taught to push anger aside, because angry girls aren’t nice, good girls, you don’t want to be a bitch, do you? So we’ve created a disconnect between what our body is trying to tell us and what we’re willing to acknowledge. If you’re feeling teeth-clenching fury when you hear your kid’s steps on the stairs again, something is up and it’s definitely time to assess how you might need better support, or clearer understanding of your values, or getting really honest with yourself about what boundary is actually being crossed here, what inner child stuff might be coming out, what perfect mother myth are you trying to uphold.
That’s where guilt comes in. When you’re trying to set a boundary and you’re hit with a wash of guilt or shame, instead of sinking into it you can get really curious - where is that coming from? Do I feel guilty because I’m doing something against my personal values? Or do I feel guilty because I’m not living up to some impossible ideal, some measure of what a good mother “should” be acting like? Guilt can be a very powerful tool in maintaining patriarchal standards of motherhood, it keeps us in line right? But it’s actually such a helpful emotion for our own evolution as humans if we learn how to accept it and learn from it, instead of pushing it away or acting in a way that you think you’re supposed to act.
Because remember, we are not doing this in a void. We are trying to create a life for ourselves in this patriarchal world that tells us that we need to be perfect all the time and give everything to our children and that motherhood should fulfill us all the time and that is totally unsustainable.
So that way when you DO set a boundary, you’ll get this whole body “YES” feeling. If you know that sticking to the boundary is going to be hard, but it’s already hard not sticking to the boundary, you can make the less-hard choice of living a life aligned with your values.
And you will still feel guilty, and people will make you feel bad, and you are probably an amazingly generous caregiving person so this cuts extra deep. But there’s a reason you’re listening to this podcast, and it’s because motherhood today is hard and the world is asking too much of us. We have to set boundaries, not to shut people out, not to push away our children, but because we have so much to give to the world that we can’t let our precious time, energy, and attention be taken away from us. And when you take the time to get super clear on your own values and priorities, setting boundaries becomes easier because you know that it’s coming from a place of, “I know what’s right for me and my family and I can stay strong in that.”
Remember, there’s a difference between motherhood as an institution and mothering as an empowering experience. We become stronger THROUGH the experience of mothering, but we have to learn how to do this, it’s not a skill that’s taught to us now and in fact, the patriarchy does everything it can to have us do the opposite. We talked earlier about the importance of personal agency and autonomy for women and mothers, and learning how to set boundaries is a way to do that. By setting limits on their time, energy, and emotional space, mothers reclaim control over their lives and decisions. This intentional act of setting boundaries aligns with one's values, desires, and aspirations, fostering a deep sense of self-determination. Autonomy, the freedom to make decisions shaping one's life, thrives in an environment where boundaries are defined and respected. Boundaries act as a shield against external influences or coercive pressures, allowing individuals to make choices independently.
This is all ways that the act of Mothering can be an empowering experience through the many ways it gives us to practice setting boundaries, learning how and when to say no or say yes, believing in our self-worth enough to ask for and receive help when we need it. Ultimately, I hope this episode has helped you to think through what values are most important to you so that when you’re feeling anger or guilt in motherhood and you feel like maybe you need to set better boundaries, you can take some time for self-reflection and enjoy a more intentional mothering experience.