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As women, we’re constantly asked to do more and be more. And yet, there's incredible strength and wisdom in just "being."
Being present. Being Mama. Simply being you.
This is Leaning into Being. A show brought to you by the Founders and Leaders of Hello Mamas and HeyMama. Erika Hanafin, mom, stepmom, CEO, and co-parent hosts alongside Amri Kibbler, mother, founder, and cancer survivor.
Each episode focuses on relatable situations, resources, and experiences to help you balance the beautiful chaos of motherhood and ambition. This show is designed for all mamas seeking community and connection in her definition of success.
Allowing you to simply be…be your all so you can give your all, for all you care about.
Neha Ruch [00:00:00]:
I've made it my mission to rebrand the idea of stay-at-home motherhood. And you know, in comparison to working mother, what we see is like working mother is an active verb, Stay at is a noun which is stuck. So I think the title though of at home parent deserves a lot more dignity than it has. So I think the other side, besides just finding new language for it, is infusing more dignity and respect.
Erika Hanafin [00:00:22]:
I'm Erika.
Amri Kibbler [00:00:23]:
And I'm Amri.
Erika Hanafin [00:00:25]:
This is Leaning Into Being the show that allows you to be your all so you can give your all.
Amri Kibbler [00:00:29]:
Brought to you by Hello Mamas and HeyMama. Erika, I'm so excited to have our dear friend Neha Ruch on. She is an OG HeyMama member. She's been a part of our community since the very beginning and through this time she founded an incredible community Motherhood Untitled.
Erika Hanafin [00:00:51]:
Yes, Neha is not only a beautiful mom, she is an OG HeyMama member and has an upcoming book that is set to be released in January of 2025 called The Power Pause. So I'm super thrilled to hear about what prompted her to write it and also kind of share a glimpse into what you readers can expect.
Amri Kibbler [00:01:15]:
We're also going to be busting some mom myths like some of those labels that are put on moms and that age-old war of the quote-unquote working mom and the stay-at-home moment for sure.
Erika Hanafin [00:01:28]:
Let's get started.
Amri Kibbler [00:01:33]:
Tell us your story. How you got Mother Untitled started. What's the origin story and the inspiration?
Neha Ruch [00:01:41]:
So, you know, I had spent a decade building a career that I loved in brand strategy. And then, you know, I'd been sort of getting so much joy and self worth and identity which we're going to go into from that work. And at some point I decided to go to business school because I thought like, I need a reset. So I went to Stanford. I left Stanford and thought I'd landed my dream job which was running brand at a tech startup. And I think there was some inner knowing that this didn't feel like the dream anymore. And when I had my first son, I'd sort of crystallized it. I was rocking with him in this rocking chair and I just suddenly felt a level of peace that I think I'd been looking for for so long.
Neha Ruch [00:02:23]:
Right. I think I was, you know, of course my boobs were leaking and I was, it was 3:00 in the morning, so I clearly wasn't sleeping. However, I think after years of sort of contorting to climb a ladder, I felt like I don't have to be anything besides myself. That's all he needs. And that piece was something I'd probably been looking for for quite some time. So I decided I wanted more of that and I chose to initially downshift. So I downshifted into two days, a week of consulting, and then the rest of the week I was home with him. And it was during those days at home that I think I initially came face to face with just the sheer stigma surrounding what it means to be an ambitious woman and take your foot off the gas and say, you know what, I want to prioritize family life over career for a period.
Neha Ruch [00:03:10]:
And, you know, I think I heard from everyone, are you giving up on your ambition? Are you giving up period? Are you going to be bored all day? Meanwhile, I was meeting so many incredible women who are all making similar pauses and shifts. You know, some weren't necessarily fully pausing, but they were shifting into entrepreneurship to have more control over their schedules. And it was just such a vast in between of the antiquated notion of stay-at-home and working mother. But it was the height of the lean in movement and everyone was talking about the girl boss and nothing was celebrating sort of a new collective that was growing of ambitious women who were pausing. So I decided to start Mother Untitled as a way in which to reshape the narrative about women on career breaks. Rebrand the stay-at-home mother. And it's been growing since all of.
Amri Kibbler [00:04:00]:
The hairs in my arms were standing up. When you started talking about when you're there with your child, I was like, you are in your place of being right there. You found it. And like, this is where I want to be, this is my place. And you wanted to take that further.
Neha Ruch [00:04:14]:
And I want to just add that part of the reason I call that out so specifically is I think so often we've made as women our choices about work and family, about the kids. And you know, in the past they've said, well, if you work out of the home, you're trying to model ambition for your girls. And if you work in the home, you're trying to create secure attachment. What we know in all of the research, and I always point people to Harvard Business Review article from 2013 by Stewart Friedman called How Our Careers Affect Our Children. And it lays out all the data that actually, like, there are great outcomes for all children as long as they have like a secure connection and loving connection to one caregiver, if not more than that. So I say that because I chose to pause my career, not for my child, not Because I thought it was going to be better for him. I really chose because it was better for me. And I really think that that sort of speaks to just like the evolving nature of work and family now, which is we make the best choices for us right now and it will shift over and over.
Neha Ruch [00:05:17]:
As you know, I'm now working more. But it was never really about believing that it was better for the kids. It was always about, like, if I could do what let me be the strongest and our family be the strongest. That was what was best for our kids.
Amri Kibbler [00:05:32]:
I love that.
Erika Hanafin [00:05:33]:
I mean, there's so many things. One, everything starts foundationally at home. Right? And that's exactly what Harvard Business Review was kind of alluding to, obviously on both sides. The other side of that is you did a lot of discovery in yourself as you're going through that new journey for you as a new mom. Right. I want to know what surprised you the most about motherhood.
Neha Ruch [00:05:57]:
I think in part it was just the level of creativity that I found in it. I think so often motherhood gets a bad PR, you know, it is exhausting and it is emotionally draining and it is, you know, it is time consuming. And I think it challenges us in a really deep way. And there's never a greater motivation to grow than trying to be the best version for our children. When I sort of shifted focus away from career and sort of had to challenge myself to figure out what my identity was outside of being, you know, a brand marketer at a tech startup, which very is like a very pithy way of articulating things you care about, it sort of opens up the world to, like, what else do I care about? Right. And I think when you're seeing that through the eyes of a one-year-old and a three-year-old and then a five-year-old and now a nine-year-old, it challenges you to go deeper in the areas that you need to grow to be able to model for them, what you want in them. So for me, that was patience, right? Like, that was a growth area. I never thought it would be kids that would challenge me to do that.
Neha Ruch [00:06:59]:
Like deepest inner work. Yes. On the outside it's patience, but what is it really about? Right? It's about belonging. It's about like fear. And so that kind of work I never expected to do and be challenged to do beyond in motherhood. It's so true.
Amri Kibbler [00:07:14]:
Our kids really do push us into these places where we have to be the best versions of ourselves. And it's so interesting, that dynamic. I've also heard you say that motherhood has been your greatest source of education, which I find to be really interesting. Can you talk to us a little bit about that and some of the things that you learned through motherhood?
Neha Ruch [00:07:34]:
There's a lot of talk now about sort of motherhood as leadership development training ground. Right. Like, we all talk about the skills that are developed, whether that be creativity, whether that be time, efficiency, whether that be organization. Right. But I think there's another side of it, which is that parenthood today in this generation demands a different level of intellectual labor and emotional labor than ever before. I think that when your kids get curious about the world, it challenges you to get curious about the world, but to not just give surface answers, to really understand it more. So I think there's sort of the broad strokes, leadership training that happens in parenthood. And then I would add to it there's this depth of education we have to seek out to explain the world in the terms our kids understand.
Neha Ruch [00:08:24]:
And then there's this deeper psychological work, which I think is the true education, which is the education on how we work, how they work, how we fit. And then lastly, which I think is the most interesting piece is just the perspective gained, Right. I think that has become the superpower as I've now begun returning to works, you know, albeit on my own terms and for myself, I think the perspective gained in parenthood to be able to understand what's a big deal and what's a small deal, to be able to hold things more lightly because the most important thing is that you have the happiness and health of your family. Right. Like that. To me, that combination was the education I was looking for.
Erika Hanafin [00:09:04]:
I mean, that's so much personal growth as well, right. With the self-discovery, the personal growth, clearly the education component. And then you've been sharing a lot on creativity and fear. Like, as moms, we're fearful creatures.
Neha Ruch [00:09:20]:
Right.
Erika Hanafin [00:09:22]:
How do you encourage women to face those fears yet embrace creativity, embrace that personal growth? Like, what would be your foundation for that?
Neha Ruch [00:09:32]:
Well, I think the first is to take yourself seriously. I think so often women's work is diminished. We use really diminutive terms about women's work, like, especially when it takes the shape of something like this. Right. Which at first, when I launched Mother Untitled, I could only do so in naps and nighttime. So it took the shape of an Instagram or a blog or a newsletter. And so often I think those things can be made to feel like small, frivolous projects when what we know is, first of all, women's small business is booming. Erika, you have a great stat on that.
Neha Ruch [00:10:07]:
And I think it's in part because we've realized that we're the only ones who can make our own happiness and lives work for the reality of family life. Right. And so you're seeing more women take on that risk. But it is hard. Start with where you are now. Give yourself permission to invest, because those seeds do grow into something and. Or sprout into a different direction and lay a foundation for you to learn about yourself or learn about what might come next. And I think we're living in an incredible time.
Neha Ruch [00:10:36]:
It's one of the biggest differentiators between stay-at-home parents today versus stay-at-home parents in the 1970s is we have access to digital tools and technology that let us experiment from the comfort of our own homes, whether that be volunteering, whether that be starting your own business or practice. If you've already sort of subscribed to the mindset that I think we all have to in parenthood, which is no one knows what's best for us besides ourselves. Right. And sometimes we have to make the best choices without other people's permission or understanding. Then you can start to dabble in these things that have always been of interest to you. And maybe they remain a hobby, or maybe they grow into something just for you, or maybe they help you pivot into your next line of work. But I think it all starts with giving yourself permission and then making time for it. Because I think when you grant yourself that permission, you grant yourself the ability to ask for the help you deserve to invest time into it.
Amri Kibbler [00:11:34]:
Neha, you must get so many women now that have seen your incredibly heartfelt posts on Instagram and sharing about your experience coming to you and saying, I'm on the precipice of deciding to take a career pause, but I'm feeling like I'm still a little nervous about it. What kind of advice do you give them so that they can prepare and feel like they can get the most out of it?
Neha Ruch [00:11:58]:
So first, I would say explore all your options.
Erika Hanafin [00:12:01]:
Right?
Neha Ruch [00:12:01]:
So if you're feeling nervous, like I said, there's such a vast gray area between fully at home and fully in the workforce. And I think we are seeing a workplace that is growing more and more amenable to flexible arrangements. Seek out mentors in your industry if you truly do love your work. Like, there are a lot of women who are not only making the childcare cost analysis, but they're also evaluating their role and saying, is it really a fit? And for them it might be an easier decision to make. But if there's something about the role that really feels fulfilling and you want to stay connected to it, my first piece of advice is explore your other options by seeking out mentors within your job or similar industries to carve out plans for flexible arrangements if that is an option. Like I used my example, I initially downshifted to two days as almost like a test boat to see how we would be able to do financially and both also to test if I would be able to enjoy the full days at home. This next part of it is really to prepare for the identity transition. We do live in a culture that has ascribed a lot of value and self-worth to what we do for paid work.
Neha Ruch [00:13:08]:
And we live in a culture that undervalues caregiving. So the combination of which can make it feel like a really tumultuous transition. So finding a like-minded cohort, finding a trusted friend who's been there, just knowing that there's going to be about like a couple months at a minimum of finding your footing, just knowing that that's normal. Have the money conversations with your partner. I think this is the really, really big one because it basically sets up the rest of your time at home better if you and your partner are aligned not only in budgeting, certainly about the financial implications of parting with an income, but mostly that you're both on the same page, that your value, albeit unpaid in contribution, is still going to be valued as part of the household income. I think being very clear about that going in allows you then to be able to enjoy and feel safe and secure in that arrangement moving forward. And the other thing I always think about is networking on the way out, meaning that as you're transitioning out of the workforce, you're remembering that this is a career pause. It's not a career-ender.
Neha Ruch [00:14:13]:
Right. I think what we don't want to see is like throwing in the towel because ideally, and this isn't always the case if there's layoffs or there's sort of circumstances out of your control, but ideally you're going into this with a mindset that this is a pause for you to thrive as well.
Erika Hanafin [00:14:28]:
I love that. I mean, not only are you creating kind of that step by step process, but what you're also pulling in is support both in the home from your partner, your spouse, you know, whatever, and making sure you're on the same page to be supported going forward. But then also externally, I want to double click into your book. So in January you're launching your upcoming book called The Power Pause.
Erika Hanafin [00:14:55]:
Can you share with us the impetus for writing the book and what readers can expect?
Neha Ruch [00:15:00]:
So it's very similar to sort of my feeling in 2017 that there was just such an incredible array of content for the traditional working parent. What had happened was we sort of left that home parent, or any woman choosing to pause or downshift back in the 1970s with this caricature of what a stay-at-home parent was. Right. And that caricature didn't match the reality of women who were pausing for family life. You know, I've spent the last seven years building a community to reshape that narrative, and the book really became a way in which to catalyze that conversation further. But very similarly, as I was looking at the sea of titles, there were incredible guides and resources for navigating the traditional workforce, but nothing validating the choice for an ambitious woman to pause and walk through it strategically. And what we want to see is just more options for women, right? More options with less penalty and more support. And so the book follows the arc of preparing and walking through a lot of the identity, finances, resignation.
Neha Ruch [00:16:11]:
I pull in certainly a little bit of my story, but a lot of interviews with real mothers across the country, across different socioeconomic stratas, across different industries, a number of experts, and then each chapter actually has a power practice to own sort of that chapter for yourself and make it your own. The middle section of the book is a lot about finding your footing in the day-to-day and meaning like make goals of your own, redefining success. Not success meaning like a clean home or like perfectly behaved children, but success for yourself so that you can also feel like this chapter is for you in your life and that you are forward moving as well. We talk through creating rhythms and routines to help you thrive, getting permission, as well as finding resources to get the help you deserve in the home. And the last section really is about unlocking the potential because I do feel like there's incredible possibility in this chapter, especially when you open yourself up outside of the limitations of what you were doing before. So, you know, a step-by-step guide on networking, HeyMama. Is actually featured in that section because I always think of HeyMama as such an incredible resource for me personally for having built so many relationships during motherhood, using the stage in life to explore and experiment, and ultimately telling the story of your time out of the workforce with confidence for when you return.
Amri Kibbler [00:17:34]:
So you've mentioned community a few times here. I would love to hear more about that. You talked about how you can focus on building your network on the way out. What are some different ways that you can lean on your community and be continuing to build that network as you're going through this process.
Neha Ruch [00:17:52]:
So I think the first is not to shrink away from it. I use the example of networking on the way out because I heard anecdotally from many women that as soon as they paused, they sort of stopped participating on LinkedIn and that applied. I actually met a woman at one of our pop ups in Dallas who said she'd taken a little bit of a lateral demotion. I suppose she'd sort of shifted out of a managerial role to minimize her stress in her role and free up headspace. She said she was sort of edging away from LinkedIn so as to not have to see other people's movements up the ladder. And my advice is to remain in that network as much as don't take a step out of it, because you still deserve a space. This is still your career, it is still evolving. A career pause is still part of your career.
Neha Ruch [00:18:38]:
And so being able to own that story and continue to participate. LinkedIn or other online forums are a great way, especially when you're in the thick of parenthood where it's time demanding to use little touch points. You know, do you set aside half an hour every week to scroll through and see what your network is up to? And this sounds silly, but like their content, keep a pulse on what's happening in your industry. It just lets you both stay engaged and still feel like you're in it. I think where possible, being able to participate in communities like HeyMama allows you that feeling of you don't need to go into a conference room, but you can enter a group of really like-minded women and trade ideas, share what you're thinking about or working on and see how you can be helpful in the capacity that you have available so that when and if you need to lean on that, when your idea gets bigger or when you're ready to jump back into the workforce, you have that available to you. But the last thing I would say is you don't have to go out of your way. Some of my best connections were made on the playground, in play spaces, in the PTA. And those were areas that I just met women that mirrored back to me.
Neha Ruch [00:19:46]:
No, I'm still ambitious, I'm still feminist, I have a really equitable relationship with my partner. They reflected back to me the strength in where I was and gave me a sense of community for that chapter.
Amri Kibbler [00:19:59]:
When you were talking about women sometimes pulling back from LinkedIn and not staying involved in other groups. Do you think that some of that is around the preconceived ideas of different labels and some societal induced shame around the shifts in their situation?
Neha Ruch [00:20:16]:
100%, I think, you know, obviously I've made it my mission to rebrand the idea of stay-at-home motherhood because I think linguistics specifically are flawed. Right. Stay-at implies stagnant and stuck in one place. And we know then in a chapter focused on family life, you are anything but stuck in one place. And you know, in comparison to working mother, what we see is like working mothers and active verbs, stay at is stuck. So you know, obviously we want to rethink those labels in and of themselves because what we see from the research is that one in three parents working out of the home are considering pausing, one in two are considering downshifting, and 90% of women at home are considering returning. So we're really all more evolving than not. I think the title though of at-home parent or career break for caregiving deserves a lot more dignity than it has.
Neha Ruch [00:21:09]:
So I think the other side, besides just finding new language for it, is infusing more dignity and respect. So one thing I talk a lot about is, you know, even if you put career break for family life, think a lot about those sub-bullets you're putting. Cause just like any other job, you have the right to describe what it is you're doing. So if you're managing through a child's healthcare issue and you're navigating really complicated medical systems, if you are fundraising for your school, if you're advising your partner's growing startup, all of those deserve a space. And I think one way in which to keep and hold this chapter with dignity on an individual basis is to continually, whether that be quarterly or annually, reflect on all the non-traditional things that you feel proud of. Because all of those dots do end up connecting backwards. You know, three years into your break when you look back and you think, oh my God, I was really good at project management. Who knew? And so that's one way I think we can stay relevant.
Amri Kibbler [00:22:11]:
It's almost like you're giving yourself a review.
Neha Ruch [00:22:13]:
Yeah. And by the way, the most personal, probably meaningful review. Because so often, I mean, you remember, especially in a corporate setting, you would like roll in for your annual review and say whatever it needed to get a raise. Like when you actually have to audit what's lighting me up, what's not, what's taking away from my peers, what's Not. I think it's one of the most genuine, authentic experiences you can really have.
Erika Hanafin [00:22:37]:
I think that there's so much that we need to double-click into. One is, you've mentioned belonging, and we love that word, like feeling like you belong regardless of where you're at.
Neha Ruch [00:22:50]:
Right.
Erika Hanafin [00:22:51]:
And you're talking about the judgment of stay-at-home mom versus a working mom. And we firmly believe that all moms work. So, like, just remove that title.
Neha Ruch [00:22:59]:
All mom's mother.
Erika Hanafin [00:23:00]:
All mom's mother.
Neha Ruch [00:23:01]:
Exactly.
Erika Hanafin [00:23:02]:
So you've broken those down in terms of the personal kind of steps that you would take to make sure that you yourself are staying relevant and finding your belonging, so to speak. Right. But how do we continue to break down this perceived notion or judgment, whatever you want to call it, between these two groups and encourage more empathy?
Neha Ruch [00:23:28]:
Well, I think it's a little bit of what we were talking about before when we were reflecting on that anecdote about why I chose to pause, which is, I think first is owning our why if we did have the privilege to get to choose, and I'm going to get back to that, but if we did have the privilege to choose, I think owning why we made that choice, not only to ourselves, but when we talk about it to other people, helps reduce the defensiveness. Like I said, too often we made it about the kids. And when we make it about the kids, then the defenses go up because we all are trying to do the best for our kids. If we say we chose to pause because we needed more headspace or we needed more time or your husband's traveling or, you know, I needed to work because I really love my job, I think all of those things help diffuse the tension and see each other as whole people and not as competitors. For so long, we have called stay-at-home motherhood a luxury. And when one side is associated with luxury, it immediately breeds resentment. And then the next thing that happens is then we say, like, that side doesn't deserve as much support. What we know right now is that 60% of people make the decision to pause their careers because of financial considerations.
Neha Ruch [00:24:36]:
One in three fully feel forced to stay-at-home because they can't offset the cost of childcare. And now, by the way, the inverse is true too. There are women who can't offset their household income and so have to remain in the workforce who would love to pause. And the privilege really is to get to choose. And I think if we can stay there, we allow ourselves to enjoy that privilege if it is ours or feel empathy if it was not. A choice. And I think that figuring out that that division was sort of an invented division from if you go back to the history in the 1970s when we had to do tremendous work to elevate the woman in the workforce and we sort of left the woman who was choosing to stay-at-home back with apron strings as defending tradition. And that reality just isn't as black and white.
Neha Ruch [00:25:20]:
And so embracing this wide gray area, I think would be a gift.
Amri Kibbler [00:25:24]:
Do you have any thoughts on how we could change those titles? It's really difficult.
Neha Ruch [00:25:31]:
So in the book, I have a series of scripts, but one of the things I suggest to people is if the title gives you a sense of power and sort of a pithy clarification, great. You can also just not use a title and just talk about what you're focused on right now. So I often suggest to women, you can say right now, which means grounds it in. Like, this is just for this moment. This is temporary. I get to. Or I am at home with my kids or mostly with my kids, was what I used to say. And I'm working on or and I'm volunteering or.
Neha Ruch [00:26:06]:
And I'm tinkering with. And it sort of leaves a more fluid definition. And no, it doesn't fit into sort of a square box. I obviously on LinkedIn would say career pause or career break for career sabbatical for, you know, and there are some women, and I often say, if you are like in that tilt between, where you're like somewhere in between and you're freelancing, then put freelancing. I think you put on your resume the part of your story that you feel most confident telling. And so if you are mostly at home then saying career break for family life and putting all those sub-bullets, then that gives you a story to tell. If you're mostly freelancing, put freelancing. But in conversation, we have a little bit more leeway to just say, right now I'm doing this, I'll see what comes next.
Amri Kibbler [00:26:55]:
I love that right now terminology because it also really allows you the opportunity to go wherever it is that you want to go in the future. And I think a lot of the fear in these different roles comes from the idea that your choice is going to be taken away because you are just one or the other. The truth is that we go through all of these different ups and downs and shifts throughout our journey. Even outside of being working or at home or any of the other things. We're not just one thing or the other in any different way. And subscribing to those labels is very limiting for us.
Erika Hanafin [00:27:32]:
Yeah, we're definitely many things, so many things. I wish I could start taking them off the things that I wanted to get rid of. But I love this like, notion of one-time seasons in the season I am in, this reframing of the conversation, so to speak, and worth. But you mentioned also competence. And we see this a lot within our community at HeyMama. And we see this as something we're solving for within Hello Mamas, which is confidence and this lack of confidence and this lack of worth. And really we're all equally valuable contributors, whether it's at home or in our family. What do you see as changing that perception?
Neha Ruch [00:28:22]:
A lot of it is cultural attitudes. And we're obviously all working on that from different angles, which is elevating the value of caregiving so that we understand that our roles at home come with incredible worth and value. I think as soon as women part with their paid work, it can feel very disempowering. And I think getting ahead of that by educating yourself on the value of what you're now providing in the home, including the intellectual and emotional labor. Right. Because understanding that value then equips you when it comes time to ask for help. It gives you permission to ask for help. Because I think too often we see women, especially when they pause or downshift paid work or step into something entrepreneurial where they're not making the same salary as they might have been before, they resist asking for help because they feel like they didn't earn it.
Neha Ruch [00:29:14]:
You know, we see it over and over again that women will say, if I don't do paid work, I don't deserve help. And no one should be working 247 without breaks. Like that's just. It's impossible. Especially if you spend a day with children, you know, that that's particularly emotionally exhausting. And so what we want to do is be able to give women the language to contextualize what they're doing both in the home, both to keep their family well, themselves well keep their businesses or creativity or part-time work or whatever they're working on alongside thriving, because that all takes a lot. And then we want to give them the language to be able to sit down with their partner and say, investing in our household and in support is an investment in the whole family. Because we all deserve to be well and supported.
Neha Ruch [00:30:04]:
Our children deserve both parents to be well and supported. And you know, I think that that one piece, giving women the ability and confidence to ask for the help they deserve, then unlock the confidence elsewhere. Because as soon as they do that, they're able to step into environments more and build the muscle of, oh, I'm a whole and healthy person outside of my role as a caregiver or outside of my role as an accountant. You know, being able to get those breaks, let yourself explore and discover what makes you whole and healthy, feeds back in that confidence loop. But it starts with, I do believe the data and the scripts to value the work and ask for the help and breaks.
Erika Hanafin [00:30:41]:
It's always been something that I've personally struggled with, like, you know, throughout my career.
Neha Ruch [00:30:46]:
It's like, you've got to fight for.
Erika Hanafin [00:30:47]:
Yourself, you've got to negotiate for yourself. It baffles me.
Neha Ruch [00:30:51]:
And we're looking at a generation of partners. And I do think dads deserve a rebrand too. But like modern millennial fathers is spending three times the amount of time with their children than any generation prior. And I actually think that, you know, as much as all the memes are very funny, I think they do a disservice to the reality that men are extremely competent. They can figure it out. Yes. And I think that, you know, when we talk about help, oftentimes women don't have the capital for help. I always say, start with your partner, let him wake up with the kids, and you can take those two hours to nurture that project that you're working on or go to the gym or see a therapist or journal or meditate, whatever it takes.
Neha Ruch [00:31:32]:
Obviously you don't have like a full self-care menu available to you, but pick those things that will make you feel healthier because when you feel healthier, you feel stronger. When you feel stronger, you feel more confident. When you feel confident, you can ask for more. And so it does start with the ability to know that our partners and other people are capable. And that starts closer to home than we think.
Amri Kibbler [00:31:53]:
We have one more question that we always ask because we like to end on something really fun.
Neha Ruch [00:31:56]:
Oh, right.
Amri Kibbler [00:31:57]:
Can you remember any time that you can't even believe that you made it through? You're either still laughing about it, but it was just like crazy.
Neha Ruch [00:32:08]:
I can.
Amri Kibbler [00:32:10]:
Yeah, just one.
Neha Ruch [00:32:12]:
Well, so my husband, bless him, we were on the beach, we had a 10-week-old and almost 3 year old and we were one week at my, my older one's, a New Year's baby. And he, it was December, probably 26th, and he was like, you know what I think we should do? We should probably throw a third birthday party. I have a 10 week old. We're in Mexico. I have a three-year-old. I'm still nursing. I just, I hadn't even recognized. I was in the depths of postpartum anxiety at this point.
Neha Ruch [00:32:42]:
I was like, of course I will throw a third birthday party. Throw the third birthday party. I'd put the wrong address down, so everyone went to the other place instead of the right place. They all finally show up. I have mastitis. Nursing never came easily to me. I am now spraying. I know I'm gesticulating so you can see what's happening.
Neha Ruch [00:33:01]:
I am now spraying milk. It is hitting people and there's just like a crowd of human beings around us. I need to go home and cry. And I did. And I think the flip side of that was, I think that was the day I was like, I think I need more help. So, you know, in all of the humor and chaos, you can take some lessons. It's true.
Amri Kibbler [00:33:23]:
Like, you have to get really pushed to a point where you're like, all right, that's it. I need help.
Neha Ruch [00:33:27]:
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
Erika Hanafin [00:33:29]:
Well, Neha, thank you so much for being with us today. It's always a pleasure seeing you in person and for hearing all of your thoughts and words of wisdom that help support mothers.
Neha Ruch [00:33:41]:
We are so excited for your book.
Amri Kibbler [00:33:42]:
To come out and also to connect with you afterward and hopefully have you on again.
Neha Ruch [00:33:48]:
I can't wait. Thank you both.
Amri Kibbler [00:33:52]:
Thank you for listening to Leaning Into Being.
Erika Hanafin [00:33:54]:
To get connected and join the Hello Mamas and HeyMama Community visit hellomamas.co.
Amri Kibbler [00:34:00]:
Let's connect, support and grow together in this journey of motherhood.