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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
MEREDITH BROCK:
Hi, friends.
KALEY OLSON:
Hi, everybody.
MEREDITH:
Thanks for tuning in to the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical truth for any girl in any season.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I'm here with my co-host, Kailey Olson.
KALEY:
Hey, Meredith. How you doing?
MEREDITH:
I'm doing pretty good. It's a big day.
KALEY:
It's a big day. We're both wearing denim today.
MEREDITH:
It is. That's not-
KALEY:
But it's even a bigger day than that.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
It's not just denim day. I d- if you're watching on YouTube, if you're listening, just so you know, this is also on YouTube as well, which it could get really, really hairy around here because you and I are normally just audio-only people.
MEREDITH:
I know, right?
KALEY:
Uh, but we turn the cameras on-
MEREDITH:
But we w- we have something big to celebrate, so we were like-
KALEY:
We do have something big to celebrate
MEREDITH:
we're going all in.
KALEY:
If, if you're watching this on YouTube, you see these balloons behind us that say 31. Meredith and I are not turning 31. We're older than 31.
KALEY:
No
KALEY:
although it would be nice-
MEREDITH:
Quite a bit older
KALEY:
to be 31 again.
MEREDITH:
No, it wouldn't.
KALEY:
But Meredith- ... on this special occasion-
MEREDITH:
Uh-huh
KALEY:
we're celebrating 31 million downloads-
MEREDITH:
Incredible
KALEY:
of the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast.
MEREDITH:
It's amazing.
KALEY:
It's insane. Th-
MEREDITH:
But- 31 million-
KALEY:
I know ...
MEREDITH:
people or devices.
KALEY:
31 million times. Technically a download-
MEREDITH:
Yes
KALEY:
is an instance that someone
MEREDITH:
This podcast was downloaded
KALEY:
has listened to an episode of this podcast in the last eight years.
MEREDITH:
It's amazing.
KALEY:
All 240 episodes.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And so because Proverbs 31 has 31 in its name, you know, it's kinda like your golden birthday.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
So the golden-
MEREDITH:
It only felt right
KALEY:
it just felt right. I don't know. I think, should we leave them there the whole time?
MEREDITH:
We can try.
KALEY:
Okay, we're gonna try. And if, and if they just, like, sway and get in our face, then we'll, we'll take them away. But I was like, this is just too, too big of a moment not to celebrate.
MEREDITH:
That's right.
KALEY:
Because, I mean, we can joke, I can joke about the early days of the podcast and probably how Southern I sounded-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
and cringe at the fact that-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm
KALEY:
oh my goodness, 31 million times is a lot.
MEREDITH:
And that was eight years ago.
KALEY:
For those
MEREDITH:
Give yourself some grace
KALEY:
That was, that was eight years ago. We were really just starting out. Um, but really whenever I zoom out and think about it, that's so significant.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
31 million moments over eight years
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
with all 240 of our episodes, and I just think, thank you, God, for being-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm
KALEY:
so faithful to allow every single one of those moments to happen because at the beginning of the show, we say where we share biblical truth for any girl in any season.
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
And that is what has been shared
MEREDITH:
Right ... 31 million times
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
over the last eight years, and it's just so great.
MEREDITH:
Well, and it's such a good moment to s- pause, right? Mm-hmm. And reflect on, why did we even start this podcast, Kailey?
KALEY:
Guys, glad that you brought that up because Meredith- Not everybody who's listening or even watching has been on this journey with us for eight years.
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
I think those true P31 women have.
MEREDITH:
Yes.
KALEY:
There's like a handful of them, and you might have heard that first episode or maybe heard us mention throughout, like, you know, this is why we started the podcast. But I would love for you to take us back because-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
you actually had the idea.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
So why did we start a podcast? What was so unique about that season?
MEREDITH:
Well, first, I think it's really important, not everybody knows the history of-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
Proverbs 31, and I won't go into all of it, but we've been around for over 31 years, guys.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And there's been a commitment from the beginning that we would go to where women are-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
with the truth of God's word.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And if you look at the history of Proverbs, um, it started out as a... They did mailings, like actual-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
physical paper mailings.
KALEY:
Like they, they printed off this and folded it up.
MEREDITH:
And folded it up and mailed it. It was a newsletter.
KALEY:
With lick stamps
MEREDITH:
Yes
KALEY:
and mailed it out. Yeah.
MEREDITH:
It was a newsletter that went out to women all over the country at the time-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
with like biblical truth to how to
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
apply the Bible to their everyday life.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Then it changed into email 'cause that's where women, that's where women were.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
MEREDITH:
You know? Then it changed. Actually, there was a season where it was a magazine-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
'cause that's how women
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
consumed content. And so eight years ago we realized, uh, we saw an opportunity.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
Women are out there listening to podcasts, and we need to get into that space
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
and we need to fill it with God's word.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And that's what we did.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Kailey, it was-
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
You know, I think anytime anybody starts something new, it's messy at first, and you stumble-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
your way into doing it. Um, and that's what we did eight years ago.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
And I'm so grateful that we did.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
I... We intentionally made the choice. At the time there was-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
a lot of... Most, most podcasts were in an interview format-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
where the host would sit down and ask-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
um, their guest a bunch of questions. And when you and I sat down to think about what we wanted this podcast to be, we intentionally said we wanted it to be a teaching podcast-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
where you hear a little bit from me and Kaley.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
We might ask some questions on the back end of it.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
But we wanted women to turn on the podcast-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
and to hear directly from the word of God-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm ...
MEREDITH:
in a way that they could apply it to their lives.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Instead of just interesting questions about another person-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
we wanted them in the word of God, and I can say over the last eight years, we've absolutely accomplished that-
KALEY:
Yeah, yeah
MEREDITH:
goal, and to God be the glory, Kaley.
KALEY:
I know. I know. And Meredith, I think, I, I was looking back too at that original- Word doc or Google doc, whatever it was-
MEREDITH:
Oh, boy
KALEY:
that we were brainstorming, and I remember at the time Proverbs was like, "Okay, is this for 20-somethings? Is it for 30-somethings?"
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
"Is it for this age?" And I did some research-
MEREDITH:
Mm
KALEY:
and we chatted about it, and we were, like, looking back at the history of Proverbs 31, not only has the Lord been faithful to bless the steps we've taken to meet people where they are-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm ... Proverbs 31 is such an, an age-inclusive ministry.
MEREDITH:
That's right.
KALEY:
It's one that really just ages with somebody, and I feel like you and I are testaments to that because eight years ago we were a lot younger than we are now.
MEREDITH:
I was 37-
KALEY:
I know
MEREDITH:
eight years ago. That feels
KALEY:
You still look 37, Mere.
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
You look great.
MEREDITH:
K- Kale, say it again.
KALEY:
You still look, you still look 37, Mere.
MEREDITH:
Right. Right.
KALEY:
Um, but I just think back and I'm like, what we talked about then is still so applicable-
MEREDITH:
Absolutely
KALEY:
for the season of life that I'm in now.
MEREDITH:
Absolutely.
KALEY:
But I'm so grateful that this ministry doesn't look down at-
MEREDITH:
No
KALEY:
those who are young-
MEREDITH:
No
KALEY:
nor does it diminish those who might feel like they're being shut out of-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
their spaces in their church. We give space for all of that because no matter what season of life you're in, biblical truth is applicable.
MEREDITH:
The Word of God never ages.
KALEY:
Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. So I was going back down memory lane and I was like-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm
KALEY:
what was happening in the ministry back then? This is what we looked like.
MEREDITH:
Oh, boy.
KALEY:
I printed this off.
MEREDITH:
Ah.
KALEY:
I don't know if you can see it. Um, I had a side part.
MEREDITH:
I'm trying to get you a really..Wow.
KALEY:
I had a side part.
MEREDITH:
I also had a side part.
KALEY:
Um, hence my shot.
MEREDITH:
Um, I also-
KALEY:
But you gave it a... You, you did not in that picture.
MEREDITH:
I kind of. It was actually my side-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
I did center part there.
KALEY:
Really stepping out.
MEREDITH:
I do want to acknowledge the fact that over COVID I tried to grow my eyebrows out. Maybe you guys did too.
KALEY:
Those were, those were things that-
MEREDITH:
I tried to fill them in a little bit, but-
KALEY:
COVID kind of allowed you to do that.
MEREDITH:
It was true.
KALEY:
We recorded a lot of podcast episodes-
MEREDITH:
Oof
KALEY:
from your closet and-
MEREDITH:
We did 'cause my kids were at home and it was so crazy. Oh my gosh.
KALEY:
Um, I switched to natural deodorant during COVID and I'll just leave it-
KALEY:
Good for you. Good for you.
KALEY:
It's good to do that in privacy, you know?
MEREDITH:
It is. It is.
KALEY:
But also look how tight our pants were.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
KALEY:
I mean, skinny jeans, can we just be grateful that skinny jeans aren't really, like, uh, the only available option-
MEREDITH:
I'm grateful for that
KALEY:
anymore eight years later?
MEREDITH:
I like it. I like a nice wide leg.
KALEY:
I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
But in the ministry in 2018, this book came out.
MEREDITH:
Oh, one of my all-time favorites.
KALEY:
It's Not Supposed to Be This Way.
MEREDITH:
Absolute all-time favorites.
KALEY:
Ugh. Finding unexpected strength when disappointments leave you shattered. Um, that was happening, the First 5 app had only launched three years prior.
MEREDITH:
Whoa.
KALEY:
And at that, at, in 2018 we had hit 2 million downloads-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
in three years. Incredible. It was insane, and She Speaks conference, we, that year was the year, I went back in my notes, and we were like, "Next year" We're gonna stream the conference 'cause we wanna meet more women-
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
where they are-
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
so that they can hear what's-
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
being taught from the stage here in Charlotte, North Carolina-
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
so that they can be equipped to go and share the gospel where they were. And so when I look back, I was like, it wasn't just this podcast-
MEREDITH:
No
KALEY:
that we did. It was how the Lord used this podcast to even position Proverbs 31 for such great impact.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And I'm so thankful.
MEREDITH:
Can I tell ... I wanna tell our listeners something really cool, too. Um, in 2018, I remember us talking about that, like, oh goodness-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
should we live stream She Speaks?
KALEY:
How do we do that?
MEREDITH:
Like, how do we do that?
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
That's crazy. But we, our hearts desire was we want to equip more women. We want to-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
mobilize more women to share the gospel, and it was a big undertaking at the time. Very expensive.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
So we had to, we had to charge for the live stream tickets and all of that. Um, and I am so excited to say eight years later-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
the passion and the desire and the mission and vision of Proverbs 31 to mobilize more women-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
to share the gospel is still there, and we have built an incredible community of donors around us-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
who share that same vision and mission. And this year-
KALEY:
Yep
MEREDITH:
for the first time ever, we are able-
KALEY:
Drum roll
MEREDITH:
to make our live stream totally free.
KALEY:
I know. That's amazing.
MEREDITH:
And that is from the heart and the desire-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
to say, my goodness, if we can mobilize more women to share
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
the gospel, think of the way that the world could change.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
And so thank you to our donors-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
um, who have come alongside us, um
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
with incredible generosity to not only make this podcast possible-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
but to make She Speaks possible, to make First Five possible. Every single ministry program within Proverbs 31 is made possible-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
by the generosity of people just like you guys who are listening today.
KALEY:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Meredith, we need to transition into what we're actually here to do today.
MEREDITH:
Oh, boy.
KALEY:
And I'm excited because we don't do episodes like this ever.
MEREDITH:
We've never done one like this.
KALEY:
But I was thinking about it, and I was like, how do we celebrate this? Like, what do we talk about? And then I went back to our very first episode.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
It's titled There's Always a Meanwhile-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm
KALEY:
with Lysa. And I was like, Meredith, I think we need to listen to that eight years later.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
Because if that message is really true-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
which it is, this will be my third time to listen to it in the last-
MEREDITH:
Wow
KALEY:
like, week, then that means there's things that we've learned-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
between eight years.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
Um, from when we listened to this first, we recorded it at Lysa kitchen table-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
with random podcast equipment.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
I remember our IT director, Chris Grace, was there. You know, we have men who work here, too. But we all heard that for the first time, and there was a group of you guys listening who heard it for the first time, and so I think it's only appropriate that eight years later we go back-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
to the very beginning and listen. So I have my computer out here, and I'm gonna hit play. But Meredith and I are gonna do something a little different. We're gonna listen in real time-
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm
KALEY:
with you guys with the mindset of what do we know now that we didn't know then?
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
And there might be a couple times where I say, "Okay, we're gonna stop and we're gonna chat about that."
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And then we'll pick back up. Um, but I hope that you guys enjoy this. I hope we do.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
I think we will. I think it's gonna be a real blessing. So with that, let's get started. Oh, wait, I should say, this is with Lysa. I think I did say that already.
MEREDITH:
Yes.
KALEY:
But you will hear Lysa Terkeurst’s voice.
MEREDITH:
Yep.
KALEY:
It's gonna be amazing.
MEREDITH:
I know.
KALEY:
Okay. All right, here we go
LYSA TERKUERST:
Sometimes in nature, seasons announce themselves, uh, in a very noticeable way. But in our life, sometimes seasons aren't quite so pronounced. It's not like you wake up one day and the temperature of your life has changed, announcing, "Hey, Meredith. Hey, Kaley. You're entering into a new season."
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
Right
LYSA:
Right. I love that in nature, God announces those seasons, but, uh, in our own life, we've gotta recognize those seasons. And I think one of the most important things to do is to have a habit in your life to not only recognize changing seasons in your life, but also realize that when you change from one season to another, it's a wonderful transition time to let some things go.
MEREDITH:
Ooh. Wow.
LYSA:
And, uh, what really kinda clued me in to start thinking about this is in, um, in my travels, uh, uh, there was a, there was a speaking engagement that I went to up in Connecticut, and when I went, um, it was in the fall, and, um, I remember driving down the street and there were so many trees broken in half. There were branches everywhere. It looked like a hurricane came through, but I knew no hurricane had come through Connecticut.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
Right. Right.
LYSA:
And so I was asking the lady who picked me up at the airport, I was like, "What in the world has happened to all these beautiful trees?" And she said, "Well, it's, um, it's very interesting that you ask that question.
LYSA:
You see, we had a very early snowstorm this year in the fall before the leaves had a chance to fall off the trees." You know, in the fall, during this changing season, the trees release their leaves, and when they release their leaves, then they can take on the added weight of snow.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
LYSA:
But this snow came before the trees released their leaves, and the trees could not handle the heavy burden of holding on their leaves from the fall season and taking on the snow in the winter season.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
KALEY:
Mm.
LYSA:
And because they refused to release or the snow came before they had a chance to release, then a breaking happened. And so-
MEREDITH:
Wow
LYSA:
Today I wanna talk about no matter what season of life you're in, number one, recognizing that with seasons, there needs to be a recognized transition, and I'm encouraging that that recognized transition is, what do I need to release?
LYSA:
And one of the best activities of release is forgiveness. I think that there's such a multiplied impact of unforgiveness. If we hold onto unforgiveness as we step from this season into the next season, then a breaking will happen, just like the picture of those trees. W- when we hold on from some- from one season into a new season, we are gonna take on too much, and there's this beautiful thing-
KALEY:
Right
LYSA:
called releasing that can happen if we will intentionally recognize that forgiveness is a beautiful transition point from one season to the next. So I wanna go to the Bible and really illustrate the- multiplied impact of unforgiveness, but also the beautiful reality of what can happen when we choose to forgive.
LYSA:
One of my favorite verses in the Bible is Genesis 50:20. It says this: "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." I love that verse. I love taking that verse sometimes and using it in a situation where someone has deeply hurt me or offended me, and I will often preach a message to myself.
LYSA:
"Look, Lysa, that person intended to harm you."
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
LYSA:
Or even if, if, if I feel like the enemy is causing some attack in my life, "Look, the enemy is intending to harm you, Lysa. But God intends it for good. God can take anything and use it for good. And it will not only be to help you get better in your life, but it will be for the saving of other people.
LYSA:
It will give you an experience by which you can relate to fellow humans and help them as well." Love that verse. But the context of this story and what Joseph, the person that said this verse, what he had to go through to get to this revelation- Hmm. Well, actually, it was 13 years of extreme hardship, and this extreme hardship required Joseph to get to this place.
LYSA:
But Genesis 50 comes after many seasons and after Joseph has gone through a process of learning to forgive. "You intended to harm me," he's saying this to his brothers, "but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." Now, that's in Genesis 50. Let's go back and find the true context of this story.
LYSA:
Genesis 37, it starts off by saying in verse two This is the account of Jacob's family line. Now, first of all, I wanna say something. If somebody is about to give an account of their family line, I would expect a couple of things. I would expect it to go in order. I would expect them to start off with Jacob's oldest son and work down to the youngest son, right?
LYSA:
And I would expect them to highlight the good parts of Jacob's family. I would not expect them to start off the family line by highlighting one of the younger brothers, and I definitely wouldn't start out by highlighting some dysfunction in the family.
KALEY:
Right.
LYSA:
And yet-
MEREDITH:
That's usually not a good opener.
LYSA:
And yet, this is part of the beauty of the Bible, that God allows his divinity to be mixed and intermingled with messy humanity. Yeah, that's right. And that is what we see in Genesis 37:2. "This is the account of Jacob's family line. Joseph, a young man of 17..." See, this is already bothering me.
KALEY:
Can, can we stop there?
MEREDITH:
Yes.
KALEY:
Meredith. Joseph was 17. So she like-
MEREDITH:
Wow
KALEY:
gives context, but this is the first time in the teaching where she was like, "You're 17." And I think in just a minute, I might have stopped it just a little bit early, but she's gonna say the line, "You don't know what you don't know."
MEREDITH:
Right. When you're 17.
KALEY:
When you're 17, but I also know when we recorded this for the first time eight years ago-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
if you, you're, you were 37.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
I was about 27.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
We didn't know-
MEREDITH:
Wow
KALEY:
what we didn't know.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
KALEY:
And let's talk about that for a minute.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
Like, friends, I want you to think about what were you doing eight years ago? Like, if you are listening to this and you hear the line, "I don't know, you didn't know what you didn't know"-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
where were you? And so I remember sitting at Lysa's table, I remember planning this podcast
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm
KALEY:
kinda like not knowing, but being in a season where it was almost like I was a deer in the headlights stage
MEREDITH:
Mm
KALEY::
of life, in a good way.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
But also in a not good way sometimes.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
Because I think your 20s are such a season of underdeveloped, eager potential.
MEREDITH:
Mm.
KALEY:
Does that make sense?
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
Um, and I know you're looking back going like, "Yeah, I remember it." Like, this... And you've learned a lot in those eight years, but I can say that 'cause you've walked with me through a lot of that.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
But not just from the things that I was doing here while I was at Proverbs 31. I was wearing a lot of hats.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
But there was a lot of things that I didn't know what I didn't know at work.
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
A lot of, like I said, a lot of things that I feel like I would've wanted to happen sooner.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
A lot that I would've plowed my way through, a lot I probably did plow my way through that I should have slowed down on.
MEREDITH:
Mm.
KALEY:
But I, I so I look back and I think of what I've learned, and we can talk about that later. That's where I was at 27.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And then personally, my husband and I were starting conversations about family planning. I didn't have kids.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
I was 27.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
KALEY:
I could get as much sleep as I wanted to at night.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
KALEY:
You know? Um, and there was so much in my life that was genuinely centered around me.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
Not because I wanted to be selfish, but because that's all I knew-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
at the time.
MEREDITH:
Well, that's
KALEY:
What about you?
MEREDITH:
not, that's not bad, Kaley.
KALEY:
No.
MEREDITH:
I think there's a grace.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
Um, I li- I like to use this phrase a lot because I, I've seen it be really true in my own life-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
that, uh, there is a severe mercy often that God gives us.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Um, and I think it's a severe mercy maybe, m- that might be a little bit of an extreme word to use in this scenario, that he doesn't reveal-
KALEY:
Mm
MEREDITH:
everything to us.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
You know? I look back at my 37-year-old self and I think, man, some stuff I'm like, "Gosh, Lord, why didn't you tell me that was coming?"
KALEY:
Right.
MEREDITH:
That was awesome. We could've celebrated that, and I could've-
KALEY:
Right
MEREDITH:
anticipated this great thing.
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
And then some of the stuff I look back on what happened between 37 and 45 and I'm like, "Whoa, that was really hard.” And I didn't even know the storm that was coming.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
You know? And the Lord didn't tell me because He knew that I would run away. And I would hide, and I would-
KALEY:
Wow
MEREDITH:
make a different choice. I would not walk through it if I knew how hard it was gonna be. You know? And so I think it's so good for us to recognize, to every- You know, I think people have the habit of, or not everyone, but a lot of people have the habit in January or December you look back on the year previous. But it's so good to pause-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm
MEREDITH:
and look at a longer period of time. Like eight years.
KALEY:
That's so long.
KALEY:
And say, "Wow, look what God's done." You know? Like, I can look back eight years ago. Um, I had two kids at the time. Um, my daughter was probably still... I'm trying to think, what year was she born? I don't know. I can't even remember.
KALEY:
2015.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
I think.
MEREDITH:
So she was, like, two, two, probably two and a half.
KALEY:
Oh, my gosh.
MEREDITH:
Maybe three. Um, so she was-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
a little, tiny toddler.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Um, my son, my older son, was a little bit older than that. He- she- he's three years, so he was, like, in kindergarten. Um, now he's, uh, he'll be 15 this summer, you know?
KALEY:
Wow.
KALEY:
Uh, my daughter's 11 now.And I didn't even know- we were gonna have a little man um, come into our family through adoption and foster care. And, um, I think if I would've known, uh, some of the things that we would face through that process, I probably would've said no.
KALEY:
Yeah, I agree.
MEREDITH:
But the Lord w- had mercy by not revealing to me all of it. And just putting one, one, and it's that light unto your feet. Not light unto the next mile. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not light unto the next 100, 200 feet even. It's just light unto your feet. And it's so good to stop and, and ponder that and say, man, think about Joseph. He was 17 and just full of ambition. I remember being 17-
KALEY:
Mm-hmm, yeah
MEREDITH:
and like, "I'm gonna take the world by storm." You know?
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And that's a good thing because 17-year-olds, 20-year-olds, I mean, here I am about to turn- I turn 45 in, like, two weeks. Um, I'm here to tell you, I don't have the same amount of energy as I did when I was 17.
KALEY:
I don't either. I don't either.
MEREDITH:
And so it's a gift. Mm-hmm. That 17-year-old ambition and energy is a gift. And we don't wanna squelch that. Um, but it's also okay. Maturity is a gift. Because we can come alongside those 17-year-olds and say, "You don't know what you don't know. But I'll walk with you if you'll let me."
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
"And w- together we'll see what God can do through you."
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
You know?
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
So it's good. Listeners, I encourage you-
KALEY:
It’s so true
MEREDITH:
if you have the chance, pause this week.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Reflect on the last eight years of your life, like Kaley and I are. And say, see where God has moved-
KALEY:
Yeah
MEREDITH:
his mercy, his grace in your life.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
So good.
KALEY:
That's so good. Okay, we're gonna pick back up-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
with where Lysa left off
LYSA:
'Cause Joseph is, like, one of the younger brothers. I don't know why we're starting with Joseph. But wait, it gets even better than that. He was out tending some flocks with his brothers, the sons of Hardward and the sons of Hardward, his father's wives, and he brought their father a bad report about them.
LYSA:
So you see, the dysfunction is already being highlighted here. Not only are we starting out with Joseph, which seems odd to me, but we're also starting out with Joseph tattletaling on his brothers.
MEREDITH:
Joseph, Joseph.
LYSA:
That's right. You see, Joseph is 17, and when you're 17, sometimes you don't know what you don't know.
MEREDITH:
That's the truth.
KALEY:
Right.
LYSA:
So Joseph, I think it's important to know, too, that Joseph has a major calling on his life. God is gonna use Joseph to be a leader, but sometimes leadership comes in an immature package. And that immature package is what Joseph is about to put on display here. So it says, "Now Israel," verse three.
LYSA:
This is ... Israel's another name for Jacob, which just to give you a little Bible history here, Jacob, this family line that we're talking about, from Jacob is going to come 12 sons. These 12 sons are gonna make up the 12 tribes of Israel. So this is the birthplace, if you will, for this entire nation of Israel, the people that were prophesied by God to Abraham that God would bring people that would outnumber the stars in the sands, right?
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
Yeah.
LYSA:
So now we see it coming about. Here comes this family line. Here comes the whole nation of Israel, and it's gonna start out from this family line where we already see some dysfunction. I don't know about you, that kinda gives me a little hope for my family line, too.
MEREDITH:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
LYSA:
Okay. So now Israel, or Jacob, loved Joseph more than any of his other sons. Hello, dysfunctional clue number two, right? Because he had been born to him in his old age, and he made an ornate robe for him, and when his brothers saw that his father loved him more than any of them. How do you think that was working for the whole family dynamic?
LYSA:
Not very good. No. Because his brothers, it says in the scripture, they hated him. Joseph's brothers hated him and could not speak a kind word to him. So in the middle of all this dysfunction, Joseph has a dream. But instead of Joseph being self-aware enough like, "Hey, maybe I should probably keep this revelation, this dream to myself," no.
LYSA:
Joseph's 17. He don't know what he don't know. So here we go. Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more. He said to them, "Listen to this dream I had. We were, like, out binding some sheaves of grain in the field, and then suddenly my sheaves rose and it stood upright.
LYSA:
And while your sheaves, they gathered around my sheaves- ... and bowed down to it." Now, y'all, I'm sorry, but, I mean, JoJo, come on.
MEREDITH:
I mean, Joseph, come on.
LYSA:
You know? Yeah. That's like going up to somebody who already doesn't like you and being so braggadocious like- ... "Oh, you think you don't like me now? Well, one day you're gonna bow down to me."
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
LYSA:
Okay?
MEREDITH:
Oof.
LYSA:
But Joseph's 17. He don't know what he don't know.
MEREDITH:
That's right.
LYSA:
And leadership, this is a leadership revelation that God has given him. That he is going to be a man of leadership, but he is disqualifying himself from being able to lead these brothers because he has not properly handled this responsibility of leadership that he's been given.
MEREDITH:
So it says now that his brothers hated him. And, uh, so uh, his, um, his brothers, it says in verse eight, his brothers said to him, "Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?" And they hated him all the more because of this dream and what he had said. So you
KALEY:
Right.
MEREDITH:
Mm-hmm.
LYSA:
Nope. Nope, 'cause when you're 17
KALEY:
Joseph
LYSA:
you don't know what you don't know. Right? So he has another dream in verse nine, and he tells this other dream to his brothers. And so he goes to his brothers, he says, "Listen, I had another dream, and this time the sun and the moon, the 11 stars were bowing down to me."
LYSA:
Well, when he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?" His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind. Now- Joseph's brothers, it says in verse 12, they go out to tend to their father's flocks near Shechem.
LYSA:
And the father, Jacob, or the Bible also calls him Israel, is gonna send Joseph to check on the brothers. Well, when the brothers see Joseph coming from a distance, if, if it was modern day, they would start texting each other, "OMG, here comes that dreamer," right?
MEREDITH:
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
LYSA:
And so this is not gonna be a welcome reception. We find that in verse 18. But they saw him at a distance, and before he reached them, they plotted to kill him. Verse 19, "Here comes that dreamer," they said to each other. "Come now, let's kill him and throw him into one of these cisterns and say a ferocious animal devoured him. Then we'll see what comes of his dreams."
LYSA:
All right, so one of the brothers says, "Well, let's just wait a minute. Maybe we shouldn't kill him." And then another brother says, "I know. Instead of killing him, let's make a profit from him." So it says in verse 26, Judah said to his brothers, "What will we gain if we kill our brother and cover up his blood? Come, let's sell him to the Ishmaelites and not lay hands on him. After all, he is our brother, our own flesh and blood." And his brothers agreed. Verse 28, so when the Midianite merchants came by, his brothers pulled Joseph out of the cistern and sold him for 20 shekels of silver to the Ishmaelites, who took him to Egypt.
LYSA:
Now, I wanna say at this point- That what's happening here to Joseph, we cannot miss the humanity of the experience he's having. Okay, so really let's think about this. I mean, we can laugh about the situation, but when you're in the midst of a very difficult situation and this would be very difficult all you can see is what's in front of you.
LYSA:
But here's what I wanna challenge everyone listening today. Mm. There's what we see, and then at the same time, there's what God is doing. So the brothers are having a discussion about what do they do. They come up with a plan to tear the robe, to dip it in animal's blood, to take it to the father, convince the father that Jake, uh, that Joseph has died, and Jacob, his father, is weeping for him.
LYSA:
Verse 36, and if you write in your Bible, I want you to circle this first word of verse 36, “Meanwhile”. And if you happen to be taking notes today for this podcast, I'd like for you to title this message, There's Always a Meanwhile. Meanwhile, it says in verse 36 of Genesis 37, "Meanwhile, the Midianites sold Joseph in Egypt to Potiphar, one of Pharaoh's
LYSA:
Now, for time's sake, I want us to go all the way to Genesis 39, which is where Joseph picks back up. But, uh, but while we're making this transition, I want you to really think. Think about what Joseph felt right now. Think about how Joseph would have analyzed his life right now in this season.
KALEY:
Right.
LYSA:
All Joseph could probably see is the rejection by the brothers.
MEREDITH:
So painful.
LYSA:
But remember, there's what we see, and then there's what God is doing. Those two realities are always operating not only in Joseph's life but in our life as well. In our life, there's always a meanwhile. So what Joseph sees as a rejection God is seeing as a protection of the calling on Joseph's life.
LYSA:
Remember, God had given Joseph a vision to be a leader. He just didn't handle that situation at 17 very well. And so his brothers rejected him, and because he could not lead there, God gets him out of a situation where he cannot fulfill his calling and puts him in a situation where he can practice leadership. Because God is more interested in developing Joseph's character to match his calling than in comforting Joseph and getting him out of the situation that he's in.
LYSA:
I guarantee you, as Joseph is being probably bound and led, um, by these strangers into a strange land, he is probably begging God, "Don't let this happen. Let my brothers feel bad for what they've done. Let them come and get me. Please, let my father see the truth that I'm not really dead." But all the while, God is loving Joseph too much to answer Joseph's prayer requests.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
LYSA:
Now, don't miss this, because it does not feel like a good God should allow this kind of situation. But here's one of the very complex realities of God. We serve a God who will allow hurt. But before you park on that statement, I want you to also remember we also serve a God who will take that hurt and use it for good.
MEREDITH:
That's right.
LYSA:
Remember, one of the blessings of Joseph's story is we can read it with Genesis 50:20 in mind where Joseph eventually gets to the point, "You intended to harm me, but God us- will use this and has used this for good for the saving of many lives." Right? But Joseph doesn't see this now. However, one of the blessings of reading this story is that while we know Joseph can't see it, maybe by reading his story, we can start to see it in our life.
LYSA:
want you to think-
MEREDITH:
Okay, I'm gonna pause
LYSA:
about a situation where someone's
KALEY:
Do it
LYSA:
really wronged you.
MEREDITH:
Okay. Lysa just said it. And I'm gonna ... She said, "I want you to think about a situation where someone has wronged you." I'm gonna expand that a little bit more. Okay? Yeah. I'm just sitting here reflecting on this and thinking, man, there are some situations in my life right now that- Like Joseph, it feels contradictory to a promise I know God has made to me.
MEREDITH:
And it feels confusing and unfair. Mm-hmm. And so my flesh wants to say, "God, you've left me." "You're not good." "You're not gonna show up for me." "Because you aren't right now."
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And as I'm listening to this, I'm trying to challenge myself to say "No, this is my mean- this is my meanwhile."
MEREDITH:
This is, just because I don't feel it right now, and just because I don't see it- it doesn't change God's promise to me.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
You know? And so I just wanna encourage our listeners right now, if there is something that you are facing that feels contradictory to the promises of God to you- Don't let your thoughts run away from you.
MEREDITH:
And make you believe anything that is not true about who God is-
MEREDITH:
Yeah ... and what his word says.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
Instead, take those thoughts captive and tell yourself, "No, no, no. This is just the meanwhile."
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
God's gonna show up.
KALEY:
That's so good, Meredith. I wrote down a few minutes ago, "Be careful when I ask the Lord to show me what next looks like."
MEREDITH:
Hmm.
KALEY:
If I were to get a revelation like Joseph did, would I actually trust God with how it happens?
MEREDITH:
Wow.
KALEY:
Because I think it's so interesting that, um, I don't, I don't... Would we call it a mercy that the Lord showed that, or would we call it an opportunity for trust? Because I think, I mean-
MEREDITH:
Maybe it's the severe
KALEY:
Maybe it's the, the, the severe part was the experience of that.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
But I think in my life right now, and even years ago, I mean, like probably every year, there's something that happens where I'm just like, "Lord, can you, can you just give me a little bit of hope? Can you show me, like, how this is gonna turn out? Can you, like help me see that the thing that I'm in the middle of is gonna work out?"
KALEY:
And I think that the Lord is kind enough not to do that. That's right. Because even the times where I might get a little breadcrumb, I have to remember it's like a piece of a 1,000-piece puzzle-
MEREDITH:
Yeah
KALEY:
and I don't know where it goes.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And when that happens and I'm so tempted to fixate on the promise whether or not it's a promise or maybe it's just hope or maybe it's just how he's providing for me in that, I get more focused on the outcome-
MEREDITH:
Right
KALEY:
than I start in my humanity, this is just how I am-
MEREDITH:
It's not just you
KALEY:
solutions-oriented person
MEREDITH:
It's all of us.
KALEY:
It's all of us. "Okay, God, let me help you."
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
"Okay," or, "Ooh, I wonder if this is how it's gonna be." And then we get so fixated on the future and so fixated on how God is working and wondering what he's up to that our eyes are off of-
MEREDITH:
Him
KALEY:
what's right or Him and what's right in front of us.
MEREDITH:
Right. And you miss the beauty-
KALEY:
Like what my problem is for the day
MEREDITH:
yeah, or you miss the beauty of whi- how he's providing right now.
KALEY:
Yeah. And the peopl and the op- all of the things. The beauty in front of you.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
But I think oftentimes, and if we l- you l- you see it all over in scripture, all over. It's everywhere. It's, um, it's Exodus. It's the manna. I mean, it's that He doesn't give us more than what we need right now.
KALEY:
Yep.
MEREDITH:
So that, not because He's being mean, but so that you are in relationship with Him, so that you are walking intimately with Him every day.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And that's the provision, Kaley.
KALEY:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
MEREDITH:
That's the provision.
KALEY:
And protection.So good.
MEREDITH:
All right. So good. Let's keep listening.
LYSA:
And could it be that what you felt was a terrible rejection, that God actually is using it or has used it as a protection of a calling that God has in your life? You may not feel it. You may not see it, and you probably do not wanna live through it. However, we get to, we get to see it in Joseph's story, and that gives me so much encouragement.
LYSA:
Listen, I'm telling you what over these past couple of years of my life, I have experienced some very extreme rejection, some deep hurt, some deep pain. And sometimes the only thing that helped me release the pain of that season so I could move on freely into this season without breaking was even before I could see it standing on the reality, what they intended to do to harm me, God will use for good, and it will be for the saving of many lives.
LYSA:
I'm telling you, that one verse has saved me. That's why I think it's so important for us to look at this. Now, at this point, now Joseph is in Potiphar's home. Genesis 39:1, "Now Joseph had been taken down to Egypt. Potiphar, an Egyptian who was one of the Pharaoh's officials, the captain of the guard, brought him from the Ishmaelites who had taken him there."
LYSA:
Now, don't miss this. Despite the fact that Joseph was in pain, despite the fact that he was still wrestling with his brothers' rejection, I'm sure, he still honored God right where he was.
Wow.
LYSA:
He still had to make the choice to release that situation and let God take care of it even though his brothers weren't coming to him saying, "We're so sorry for what you did."
LYSA:
However, Joseph was somehow able to set that aside and still honor the Lord right where he was at, and we know that from verse two. "The Lord was with Joseph so that he prospered and he lived in the house of the Egyptian master. And when his master saw that the Lord was with him and that the Lord gave him success in everything he did, Joseph found favor in his eyes and became his attendant, and Potiphar put him in charge of his household."
LYSA:
Okay, really think about this. Now what is Joseph doing? He's leading. He's practicing leadership. He's just been put in charge of a household, and he entrusted everything to, everything that he owned to Joseph's care. Okay. So things don't go great for Joseph. At this point, I want us to just pause and think.
LYSA:
We want Joseph's story to tie up in a neat, nice bow. Okay, just keep Joseph there. Joseph has finally reached a good place, and let's just keep him there. But remember, God is developing Joseph's character to match his calling. Joseph is practicing leadership.
LYSA:
Now, Potiphar's wife, it goes on to say that, uh, she takes a liking to Joseph. Actually, it kind of, loose translation, but basically she thinks he's hot. Okay?
MEREDITH:
Oh, Potiphar's wife.
LYSA:
I know.
MEREDITH:
What?
LYSA:
It gets real spicy up in here. I'm just telling y'all. Whoever thinks that the n- that the Old Testament is boring, nope.
MEREDITH:
No.
KALEY:
No.
LYSA:
Because actually the way that she phrases it, and I will give you a direct quote from the Bible in Genesis 39:7, "And after a while, Potiphar's wife took notice of Joseph and said, 'Come to bed with me.'"
MEREDITH:
Whoa.
LYSA:
Okay.
MEREDITH:
Whoa. Settle down there, tiger.
LYSA:
Now, she makes advances toward Joseph several times. Joseph resists, but eventually she gets so tired of Joseph resisting, there's an encounter where he resists her one last time. She falsely accuses Joseph, and Joseph- Uh, gets thrown into prison. Okay? You gotta read all the details of the story.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
LYSA:
Go back and read it on your own.
MEREDITH:
It's like tabloid worthy, right?
LYSA:
It is. It is. Like, why would, why do, why do we wanna watch reality TV when the Bible is this good?
MEREDITH:
Yeah, I know, right? Huh?
LYSA:
All right. Here we go. So verse 20 of Genesis 39, "Joseph's master took him and put him in prison, the place where the king's prisoners were confined." Okay. Now look, remember, there's what Joseph sees, and then there's what God is doing. Joseph sees a problem. Joseph sees commotion. It seems like unnecessary problems and commotion that Potiphar's wife is putting him through.
LYSA:
False accusations, that's painful, right? But, but what Joseph sees as a problem and as unnecessary commotion, God is going to see as a promotion of Joseph's leadership because look at the very next verse. Verse, halfway through verse 20, "But while Joseph was there in prison, the Lord was with him and he showed him kindness and granted him favor in the eyes of the prison warden. So the warden put Joseph in charge of all those held in prison." It's a promotion, y'all. He is getting promoted to be in charge to lead even more. He's not just leading a household now. Now he's leading all those in prison. He's putting together systems. He is, he is practicing leadership on some real hard people, y'all.
MEREDITH:
Oh, right, yeah.
LYSA:
Like, if you can lead the people in prison-
MEREDITH:
Yeah. Yeah
LYSA:
like, you can lead there, you might be able to lead anywhere, right?
KALEY:
Right.
LYSA:
So look at how, though, God is entrusting more and more and more because remember, the calling on Joseph's life is to be a leader. And the calling on our life is probably not gonna take shape exactly the way we would want it to take shape.
MEREDITH:
Right.
LYSA:
But we can look at Joseph's story and get so much encouragement from that. It says in verse 23, "The warden paid no attention to anything under Joseph's care because the Lord was with Joseph and gave him success in whatever he did." Now, while he's in prison, he meets two people, very significant encounters, a cupbearer and a baker.
LYSA:
Things don't go well for the baker. You can go read all about that. But with these two men, he interprets dreams. Things go a little better for the cupbearer. The cupbearer eventually gets released from prison, and Joseph says, and we can see how, like, Joseph is still not happy about his situation, even though he is honoring God and God is giving him success.
LYSA:
Remember, there's what Joseph sees, and then there's what God is doing. This is such a clue. Joseph doesn't really see this grand plan of God unfolding, right?
MEREDITH:
Right.
LYSA:
Just like I often don't see that as well.
MEREDITH:
Right.
LYSA:
So look at this in verse 14 of Genesis 40, "But when all goes well with you," this is Joseph talking to the cupbearer, "remember me and show me kindness. Mention me to Pharaoh and get me out of this prison. I was forcibly carried off from the land of the Hebrews, and even here I have done nothing to deserve being put in this dungeon." That does not sound like a man who's like, "That's okay." There's what I see, and then there's what God is doing. Right?
MEREDITH:
Right
LYSA:
Just like when I'm in the middle of being deeply hurt by people, s- when, when people say things about me that are not true, when, when I feel the sting of rejection, I am not going, "That's okay." Whoa, man. It's God's protection. It's God's promotion. I'm just gonna walk in that. But maybe as I mature, maybe I can look at Joseph's story, and I can start releasing some of those things-
MEREDITH:
Wow.
LYSA:
so that I can take on the beauty of what God wants to-
KALEY:
Yes
LYSA:
trust me in this next season.
KALEY:
Yes.
LYSA:
So Joseph does not feel like he's been given a promotion here in prison, and he's probably aggravated because the cupbearer gets out. The cupbearer does not remember Joseph, doesn't remember him. Because look at this in Genesis 41 verse one. "When two full years had passed," that cupbearer had left Joseph in that prison for two full years. However- I want you to think about something really important. If the cupbearer would've gotten out and mentioned Joseph to Pharaoh, Joseph may have been released from prison. However, that would not have been a blessing for the calling on Joseph's life.
KALEY:
That's right.
MEREDITH:
Right. That's right.
LYSA:
Because Joseph had to stay there for two more years to wait for Pharaoh to have a dream because now the cupbearer is going to remember Joseph. What we learned in Genesis 41, the cupbearer remembers Joseph when Pharaoh can't find anyone to, uh, interpret the dream, and he's like, "Whoa, I just had a V8 moment." Right? Like, there's this Hebrew man. He, he is in the prison. He can interpret your dream.
LYSA:
And I want you to look at Genesis 41 verse 14. "So Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was quickly brought up from the dungeon." You know, when it is God's right time, it'll be immediate. And God loves us too much to answer our prayer at any other time than the right time.
KALEY:
That's good.
LYSA:
So Joseph is now gonna have an audience with Pharaoh, which is crucial because Joseph's calling on his life is to be a leader. If he would've been released from prison, he would've never had an audience with Pharaoh except right now. And two years had to pass for this moment to happen.
LYSA:
And so Joseph then interprets Pharaoh's dream, and what basically the dream is, is that he's being ... Pharaoh's dream reveals that there's gonna be seven years of plenty and then seven years of famine. When Joseph presents the interpretation of the dream, he also is presenting a system by which Pharaoh can ensure the safety of the people.
LYSA:
Now, where would Joseph have l- have learned to take a dream and turn it into leadership systems that will actually work to help people?
KALEY:
In prison.
LYSA:
Well, he learned it at Potiphar's house when he was held in Potiphar's house, and he was a slave there, but he led Potiphar's house. He learned how to develop systems. And where else did he learn? In prison, an even bigger place to practice developing systems.
MEREDITH:
Right.
LYSA:
So you see how what Joseph saw as a rejection, what Joseph saw as a problem, God actually saw as a protection of his calling and a promotion to help Joseph get where he needs to be. Pharaoh likes Joseph's plan so much that he then puts him in charge. He becomes the second most powerful man in all of the world.
MEREDITH:
Wow.
LYSA:
He goes from prison to power in an instant because it was God's right time, but it's kinda like when people say to me about my books that have appeared on a bestseller list. They, uh ... People will often say, "How does it feel to be an overnight success?" I'm like, "Girlfriend, that is called being an overnight success that took 25 years in the making." Right. You see, Joseph was not taken from prison to power in an instant, actually. He, he had been prepared. Like now, he's almost 30 years old. Yeah. It took 13 years. And so what happens eventually is the, there are seven years of plenty, then there are seven years of famine, and the famine extends all the way to Israel, which is where Joseph's brothers are.
LYSA:
So the brothers come to Egypt looking for food, having no idea that Joseph is in power, and then they go through a process of engaging with Joseph. Joseph recognizes them. He doesn't rec- they don't recognize him, and Joseph really has to work through some forgiveness. But look at where Joseph lands.
LYSA:
He lands in Genesis 50:20. "What you intended to harm me, God intends to use for good for the saving of many lives." So for this week, I wanna just kinda park here and park on this reality that always in our life, one of the most crucial things we need to remember about forgiveness is what we see is not all that there is. There's what we see in the situation, the hurt, the betrayal, the, the person whispering about us or back talking about us or the person doing us wrong. That's what we see. But I wonder if we could just take a step back, release some of that so that we are free to take on a new revelation from the Lord. Because the Lord at the same time is doing something good. We may not feel good, but we can stand in the truth and in the courage after reading Joseph's story that good is there.
KALEY:
Wow.
MEREDITH:
It still holds
KALEY:
That
MEREDITH:
After eight years
KALEY:
It still holds
MEREDITH:
Of hearing that message
KALEY:
It's-
MEREDITH:
It's still the truth, and that's what I love about God's word, Kaley
KALEY:
Yeah. I do too
MEREDITH:
Is that it doesn't ... It, it is the firm foundation on which we can build our lives.And we can look at the stories of scripture, and we may be dealing with 2026 problems um, but we can still use the truth of God's word to guide us through those problems.
KALEY:
Yeah. 100%. Can I, like, let's talk about one thing real quick-
MEREDITH:
Yes
KALEY:
for our listeners, and then we'll wrap up. But I know eight years ago, what we talked about on this episode was kind of, like, where we were right then. Like, how it applies to us now. But I think because this whole conversation started at Genesis 50:20. We got to see that for Joseph, and I know you and I have talked about some hard things and kind of alluded to them. But I know we've seen things come to pass in eight years.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And I think it would be cool for you and I to just identify, like, a Genesis 50:20 moment for our listeners to just honestly glorify the Lord and say, "This, if you don't get hope from Joseph, let's give you two more chances to have a little bit of hope and perspective."
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
So I'll go first.
MEREDITH:
You go first. I'd love to hear it.
KALEY:
Okay. You think about it.
MEREDITH:
Okay.
KALEY:
Um, so earlier I had mentioned that at 27, whenever we recorded this, Jared, my husband, and I were just starting family planning conversations. But it's kind of like Pandora's box almost, you know? Like, whenever you start, you really don't know, like, how it's gonna unfold. And I don't remember the Lord giving me, like, a promise, "I'm gonna make you a mother one day," but you know. You know when you know. That you're just like, "I wanna be a mom."
KALEY:
But I think we started trying right about 2018, like at the end of that year, and it took almost two years. So we had, we went through two years of infertility, and then finally got pregnant and then lost that baby. And that was so, it was so hard to, not only to have gone through the infertility but then to finally feel like, okay, it's all happening. And then I think it was six weeks later gone. And then had so many moments where I feel like I was like Joseph, "Okay, Lord, now is the right time."
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
"Now is the right time." But never, He didn't come through in the time that I wanted Him to. But a year later, He did. Yeah. So walked through a whole other year of trying and failing, trying and failing for a year, and then He finally did. But Meredith, I remember when He did, looking back now, I know that I'm the mom that I'm meant to be in this season of my life at this age to the boys that I have, but I also look back and I remember how- What was meant to be almost like this darkness over my life the Lord let me use even what was hard to help other people, because do you remember in that year of loss... Actually, no, I think I was pregnant with my oldest when we did this, but you and me and Wendy Blight and Rachel Elmore did a series on motherhood and loss on this podcast.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
And I don't, I don't think that I was like, "Oh, let me step back and just, Lord, this is how you're gonna use it." We just talked about it because it was a problem that I was facing, a problem we knew so many other women were walking through, and we're like we need to talk about what the Bible says about this.
KALEY:
And I wouldn't have been able to talk about it if I hadn't had to go through it.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
Would I have chosen it? No. But look at what the Lord did. And then I've had countless conversations with women one on one who have gone through that same thing, where, like Joseph, I wouldn't have chosen it. Like, I would not have chosen it, but eight years later, looking back at my journey and what happened and what the Lord allowed in my life, I'm grateful that He didn't let it go to waste.
MEREDITH:
Yeah. Yeah.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
That's so good, Kaley, and I feel so, um, privileged to have walked that season with you and seen what God did in your heart and what He developed in you, the faith uh, the maturity that so many other people have benefited from. Uh, because you walked surrendered to Him even in some of the darkest, um, and most deep pain you had ever felt. You know? And so what a gift it is to have walked with you.
MEREDITH:
Um, the thing that comes to my mind, and I'll, um, not go into it too much, but, um, when I, I became a believer when I was 17. Uh, and when I came to know the Lord, Kailey, I was like, quite literally like, "I'm gonna set the world on fire for Jesus."
KALEY:
That's so on brand for Meredith Brock.
MEREDITH:
Yeah, very intense. Very like, I, this is, God designed me to do really hard, really big things for Him. You know? Very bold, very confident, very like you know? Um, I thought that I was gonna go, I was like ready for God to send me to the 10/40 Window where I could reach, like, the hardest unreached people group. I, I wanted to..
KALEY:
What, what is the 10/40 Window?
MEREDITH:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. That is that, a, a la- longitudinal latitudinal space on the globe that identifies the largest, um, density of people who have not even heard the gospel.
KALEY:
Wow, okay.
MEREDITH:
They've never heard Jesus.
KALEY:
Geographical and biblical lesson all in one.
MEREDITH:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KALEY:
That's this podcast for you, friends.
MEREDITH:
Yes, today. And so w- I was 17 years old, and I was like, "Lord, send me to the 10/40 Window." Like, "I'm ready to go live in the jungle and tell people," like, risk my life to tell people about Jesus. Um, and the Lord brought me on such a wi- I won't even go into all of it. Um, I, I, and I mean, so many things I could say, but what I can say right now as a 45-year-old woman, that now, eight years ago I was not the CEO of Proverbs 31.
KALEY:
No.
MEREDITH:
I was not. I was an executive director running the marketing and some business development side of things. And here I am at 45, and I can look at back at 17-year-old Meredith and my heart's desire when you really distill it down- was for to find girls like me who felt so alone and so rejected and, uh, cast aside really and bring the hope of Jesus to them. And I thought it was, I thought I knew, my 17 year old punk self that, uh, it was going into the 10/40 Window to be able to do that. Um, when in reality, God designed me- Yeah ... to reach other women here through Proverbs 31. He had to bring me on a really twisty, windy, wild road to get me to this place to realize that this is... I wouldn't have chosen this.
KALEY:
No.
MEREDITH:
But He knew that this is what I was wired for. And He had to take all those years from 17 to 45 to bring me to this destination. Now let me tell you something really cool, okay?
KALEY:
Okay.
MEREDITH:
A few years ago, uh, I think it's been about five years, I in- I, my life intersected with a, another CEO. He asked me to be on the board of this organization called Partners International. Um, and guess what Partners International does?
KALEY:
They reach the unreached.
MEREDITH:
They do. They send indigenous leaders which is the right thing to do, which is the people who, um, are of that people group to be able to go into the most unreached parts of the globe. I, it could make me emotional just talking about it. That 17-year-old Meredith had no idea that later at 40 years old, she would be able to be on the board of an organization that is doing just that, that's going into the unreached parts of the world to share the gospel, while at the same time I'm working fully in my wiring, the way God created me to continue to bring the gospel out into all the places that He has gifted our ministry to do.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
And so I just wanna say to our listeners today- I love that ... I don't know where you are. You might be 17. You might be 57. God's not done. No. He's not done. Mm. And you may feel like He has left you in the middle of pain or a promise that has been unrealized, um, but just like Lysa said, there is always, always, always a meanwhile. We may not see it, but He is at work on our behalf.
KALEY:
Yeah, that's so true. Life, it really is a collection of meanwhiles.
MEREDITH:
Yep.
KALEY:
And I'm so grateful that in the midst of such a broken world and really broken human experience we can look back and have those moments with the Lord where it doesn't always tie up in a nice, a neat, nice bow. I always get tongue-twisted whenever I say that. Not all of... We don't always have the answers.
MEREDITH:
We don't.
KALEY:
We don't.
MEREDITH:
And we may not get answers on things.
KALEY:
It's a both and.
MEREDITH:
Yeah.
KALEY:
But as you guys are watching, as you guys are listening, that's where I wanna land this plane today, is what are some of the meanwhiles that you can go back and trace through? What did you not know then that you know now? What are some of the things that you can write down and journal about and just go, "Wow, God"?
MEREDITH:
To bolster your faith.
KALEY:
You really, you really did have me.
MEREDITH:
For the next one. Yeah.
KALEY:
Because when you do that, the Lord will use those moments.
MEREDITH:
Yep.
KALEY:
I was having one of those moments at the kitchen sink the other day, and God reminded me of something. And He was like, "Do you remember when I did that for you?" And I think the Lord wants to do the same thing through you as you go into your job as a teacher, as you go pick up your kids, as you go work in corporate America.
MEREDITH:
Right.
KALEY:
And you guys go back into life, and you're leading where you are as beacons of hope where you are. Bring your meanwhile into somebody else's pain and hardship- Mm-hmm ... and use that as an opportunity to advance the gospel. Amen. So Meredith, I know you have a testimony that you wanna share.
MEREDITH:
I just, we couldn't not end this episode eight years in, 31-
KALEY:
Eight years
MEREDITH:
million downloads later, to share this is why we do it. Kaley, this is why um, we record this podcast week in and week out. We had a gal write in who said, "I was searching to just hear a message from Jesus, and He led me to your podcast. After listening, something changed in me. I have peace and joy inside. I no longer feel like a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. Thank you."
MEREDITH:
And friends-
KALEY:
That's amazing
MEREDITH:
that's what it's really all about. The truth of the gospel really does change everything in our lives when we digest it and apply it. So thank you for listening today and for all of the other times you've tuned in.
KALEY:
Yeah.
MEREDITH:
We're grateful.
KALEY:
We are.
MEREDITH:
We're grateful that you meet with us here. It's a blessing to get to serve you in this way. And that's really it. On eight years, Kaley.
KALEY:
Eight years.
MEREDITH:
Eight years, way to go.
MEREDITH:
I did get us confetti cannons, and I-
MEREDITH:
I feel nervous
KALEY:
don't know how this is gonna go. It says rotate-
MEREDITH:
So are you ready?
KALEY:
base to the left.
MEREDITH:
One, two.
KALEY:
One, two, three.
MEREDITH:
Whoa!
KALEY:
All right. Thanks for tuning in. When you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everything. See you next time.