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Content creator, innovator and business owner. Brad Brooks talks about how he started Argali and he how manages to innovate, grow and balance home life, work and his passion for the wilderness.
Brad is a seriously talented entrepreneur and outdoorsman who humbly credits his success to his family, friends and a lot of hard work.
Make sure to check out Argali's fantastic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA_R_X4kk4P-ZUSrt2CXmng
Follow Argali: https://www.instagram.com/argali_official/
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
Join me as I discuss
matters related to
hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the
people in businesses that
comprise the community.
If you're new to
Silvercore, be sure to
check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where
you can learn more about
courses, services, and
products that we offer
as well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club,
which includes 10 million
in north America wide
liability insurance to
ensure you are properly
covered during your
outdoor adventures.
Today, I'm joined
by a consummate
adventurer, entrepreneur
and outdoorsmen.
The star of The Hunt,
The Wild Series and owner
of Argali, Brad Brooks.
Brad, welcome to The
Silvercore Podcast.
Well, thanks
for having me.
It's an honor.
Well, I'm really excited
to be speaking with you.
I've been following
what you do.
I've been consuming
some of your, your
media that you have out
there, you're doing a
fantastic job with that.
And I really want to
thank you for making
the time today.
I know we were scheduled
for another time, but
you had a, uh, what is
a 3D archery convention
or is it a tournament?
Uh, it's just, uh,
yeah, just, uh, uh,
uh, 3D archery event.
I'm not really sure what
the proper nomenclature
is, but this is, this
is also, yeah, I, uh, we
had a bit of a scheduling
snafu and I, I leave
earlier tomorrow, to
head to that and I've
just got, this is like
just a busy time of
year for us and for me.
And so, um, uh, yeah,
I'm, I'm just glad
we could find time
together to chat because
if it didn't happen
today, it might be
awhile before we can
make something happen.
I agree.
I mean, it's busy
schedules, anyways,
thank you very much.
Really appreciate that.
So I've been watching
the Hunt The Wild series.
You're doing a
fantastic job with that.
How long have you
been doing that for?
You know, uh, well,
so we, uh, Argali was
started, uh, probably
about, you know,
not that long ago,
like five years ago.
And we were a content
company when we started.
And, but in the,
you know, our origin
story is, is fairly
boring in some ways.
It was me and my business
partner, uh, having a
beer and complaining
about hunting media.
Um, not that there,
there wasn't an, isn't
a lot of great stuff
out there, but there
was a lot of stuff
that we just personally
couldn't relate to.
And, you know, growing
up in, uh, Idaho.
Anybody who's familiar
with Idaho, Idaho has,
you know, you know, like
we're the second, uh,
state in the lower 48
in terms of the amount
of like unroaded country
we have, so wilderness
and roadless lands.
So I grew up around
big wild country.
It was just, you
know, kind of what
we did, right?
Like you would go out
into the wilderness and
go hunting or go hiking.
Um, and for me, place,
like specific places
were always really
integral and important
to me, uh, for hunting.
So there were places
that I just look forward
to going, you know, we
every single fall and
we weren't, we hunted,
uh, growing up, you
know, my dad is from the
midwest in the US here.
And so he was a white
tail hunter, very
different style of
hunting than like we
do in the west here.
But so we would go
on 1 hunt a year, big
game hunt a year and,
uh, as kids and we
would hunt waterfowl
and upland birds.
And like that was,
um, for our hunting
and, uh, that was
kind of what we did.
And I always look forward
to our big game hunt
because we will go back
to a place that just had
this, um, uh, had some
sort of, um, I don't
dunno place in my heart.
I just wanted to go back
there as much as I could.
I can feel that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think most
hunters have that place.
It might be your
farm, it might be a
river, it might be
a giant wilderness
area, whatever it is.
Like I would say that
anybody who hunts or
fishes, um, and it's not
just people that hunt
and fish, hunt or fish.
I think people in general
have places that they're
drawn to, but hunters
and hunters and anglers
in particular have
places they're drawn to.
And so we, we wanted
to start a company
that was looking at
hunting, not through the
lens of look at me and
look how look at this
big shit I've killed.
Right.
Which as again, as a
consumer of media, like,
I don't care about that.
I care about, um, I
wanted to see hunting
media that was trying
to tell a story about
something interesting
that might be a
person or a place.
And for us, because
of that central role
of place, and, uh, uh,
in hunting for us, we
wanted to tell stories
that we're putting
people in place up front
and were sort of, you
know, like, uh, I'd
say the other parts of
that hunting content.
So like the kill shots
and the things that you
traditionally associate
with, I would say old
school, hunting media,
those sort of took a
back seat in the story
we were trying to tell.
Um, so that's how
we got our start.
And at some point we
had made a couple of,
a couple of films and,
uh, in each of those
films, if you watch them,
you know, conservation
and the value of
wild country sort of
is, is sort of woven
throughout the story.
Yes.
Um, but, uh, you know,
the idea for doing The
Last Wild Place series,
uh, uh, really came from
me wanting to just like
drive home with a giant
hammer to people that,
you know, wild country is
important, it is a scarce
resource and we are not
making any more of it.
It is, you know, I
guarantee you Travis,
like by the time you and
I are, if we're lucky
enough to be, to live to
an old age, there will
not be more wild country
than there is today.
Uh, more than likely
there will be less.
That's just the way
human, human civilization
and progress is moving.
Um, and I'm not someone
who like laments it
or is angry about it.
But I do think it's
important, a little
bit, but, um, I don't
get bitter about it,
but I would say that
I think it's important
and that's why we
started this series to
help hunters recognize
like, hey, this, this
is a scarce resource.
What you got right
now in front of you.
And it doesn't exist
by accident, like this,
you, we can choose
to keep these places
the way they are.
And I think most people
uh, are drawn to the
allure of big wild
country in some way,
maybe not jumping right
into it if you've never
been in it before.
But the idea of it,
the idea of big wild
country, the idea that
it exists, like that
is something that most
people can connect with.
I don't care how
you vote or how you
identify politically.
That's important.
It's important to
me, it's important
to wildlife and it's
important to all of us as
hunters to our past and
the loss of wild country
to me is a travesty.
Um, so anyways, I'll
start by saying like,
uh, I think, you know,
if, if we can no longer
get lost in wild country
as, as humans, that's
a, that's a sad day.
We should have places
to go get lost in.
And so our last Wild
Places series was really
meant for, you know,
to, to highlight some of
what we consider it to be
the last big wild places
left in the lower 48.
And that was sort
of how it all, um,
how it all started.
So you're just sitting
around having some
beers and he said, w
was it that fleshed out
at the very beginning
of the objective?
No, no, no.
So, I mean the, the, the
Last Wild Places came a
couple of years later,
but the, the, uh, the,
the beers really just
led to, uh, sorry, I kind
of glossed over that.
Um, the beers really
just led to, you know,
it was just two guys
complaining about things
is as you know, as we are
wanting to do sometimes,
and that, you know, we
said, well, let's why
don't we tell a story?
Why don't we make a film?
And my business partner
who actually has talent
as a filmmaker, he
is a filmmaker, he
actually has talent.
Um, you know, we, uh,
you know, by the end
of it, you know, and,
you know, I don't know
how many, how many
beers we had, but it
was more, more probably
than we should have.
And it was like, all
right, let's do it.
And if, and people who
know me know that, like,
if I say I'm going to
do something, I don't
wake up the next day
and say like, oh, I
shouldn't have done that.
I wake up the next day
saying I committed to
do that, let's do it.
Good for you.
And so, just the way
I'm wired, I guess.
But so we, we, uh, you
know, literally I woke
up the next day I called
Jason and I said, I meant
what I said last night.
And I said, are
you in or not?
And he's like, I'm in.
And that was it.
So that was kind of
how we, um, how we
sort of got started.
And then it was, there
was no business plan.
There was no business.
It was just, we wanted
to tell this one
story and that was
Chasing Ridgelines, a
film we made about my
brother and I, and.
That was a good film.
Oh, thank you.
I, I, it's hard.
It's hard to look
back sometimes on like
content you've made
and just like pick up,
you pick it apart as
a con content creator.
Oh yeah.
Everyone's their own
worst critic aren't they.
Yeah.
It's a healthy thing
in some ways, but.
Yeah.
But anyways, after
that, there was no,
there was no business.
There was no plan.
It was just, we want
to tell that story.
After we made that, um,
there was interest from
some of the companies
we had worked with,
um, to do another one.
So we did another
one and at some point
along the way, it
was like, ah, maybe
there's something here.
Um, my, my, I know we
didn't, I didn't start
creating content because
I wanted recognition or
I wanted gear or any of
that, like this wasn't.
Right.
You know, I had a job
I didn't need, I could
pay for my own gear.
Like I wasn't, I wasn't
looking, I wasn't
trying to, I didn't
care if anybody, what
they thought of my
hunting abilities or
anything like that um.
What was your job?
Uh, I worked it, you
know, uh, public and
environmental policy.
Right.
And don't you have
a background in,
got a master's in
business, don't you?
Yeah.
Uh, MBA and then
background in, uh, um,
environmental economics.
Right.
Yeah, it's really
kind of boring.
I see a lot of math and.
Well, you sure turn
it into something
that isn't boring.
Yeah, true.
I find it, I find
it interesting.
The number of times that
people will go to the pub
and they'll have a few
beers or they got friends
over and all the grand
ideas that everybody
has and the next day
they just they're gone.
And I remember at an
early age, I'd go out
to the pub and I'd bring
a little notebook with
me, a little pencil
and paper, or if I was
really fancy, I'd bring
a PalmPilot that a friend
of mine, his dad gave me.
You're dating
yourself now.
I know.
Bring up my PalmPilot,
but people would be
talking about these
different ideas.
And all of a sudden
somebody would say
something like that
sounds like a good idea.
And I'd ask him, I'd
say, are you going to
do anything with that?
Ah, yeah.
I don't know.
I'll probably,
I don't know.
Do you mind if I
do something right.
Whatever, knock yourself
out right into the thing.
Great.
No hard feelings.
And the next day I'd
start pursuing it.
And there was so many
different avenues
that I pursued.
Some of them took off
and some didn't, but at
an early age, realizing
that there is a great
separator between
the dreamers and the
people who actually
take that next step.
Cause everybody's got
ideas and dreams, but not
everybody has a courage
to take that next step.
Like you've done and it's
really paid off for you.
It looks like
anyways from an
outsider looking in.
It has.
Yeah, for sure.
And I, I, you just like
touched on something
that, uh, I have, I have
come to appreciate and
understand, which is that
everybody's got ideas and
I used to be, so, uh, I'd
say early on and I have
had plenty of failures
that there are other,
I mean, Argali was not,
uh, originally intended
to be what it is today.
It was intended to
be a hunting clothing
company in 2010 um.
Oh really?
Yeah, I, I dreamt
up the, uh, the
brand and the name.
Was in 2010 and it
was before FirstLite
existed, uh, Sitka
existed, but Kuiu didn't.
Um, there really wasn't
a technical hunting
clothing company that
I was aware of other
than Sitka and the idea
for Argali, which it's
funny in hindsight cause
it's not, that doesn't
sound novel today.
But it was to create
a hunting gear company
and really lean into
the merino wool, uh,
really hard as a,
um, uh, product line.
But I was, you know,
I was 25, I didn't
have any money.
Uh, I had ideas, I
hustled, I hustled,
you know, like crazy to
try and make it happen.
Almost made it happen,
but it floundered.
Um, but I learned a
lot from it, but I
think what you just
said, like rings true.
It's like, I used to
be very protective
of my ideas because
I thought, ah, people
are going to steal them
and there's some truth
to that right but.
There is.
For the most part.
When you really start
to succeed there
there's truth to
that because you've
already paved the way.
But when the idea is, is
there as an idea form,
uh, it seems to be in
a pretty safe space.
Cause most people
actually won't follow
up and do anything
with it until you've
actually dragged the
ball the majority of the
way across the field.
Uh, that is 100% true.
Like having the,
uh, like it seems so
simple and yet most
people, they either
are intimidated by it.
It's too much time.
Uh, there's a lot of
reasons, like legitimate
reasons, like other
priorities, but I think
the way that I'm wired
and I think you're, it
sounds like you're wired
Travis is like, you
know, tr you know, seeing
something through to its
logical conclusion is,
uh, something that I have
learned sort of separates
entrepreneurs from,
from non entrepreneurs.
And I don't really call
myself an entrepreneur,
but like being able
to like, see something
through and know, like,
this is a dead end,
or this is actually,
there's some legs here.
That's sort of the
difference between a
lot of, a lot of folks.
And I think folks
that are, uh, start
businesses, um, and
are able to kind of
like scrap it together
and make it work.
Um, and it's not to say
that it's a bad thing
to not necessarily
like follow up on
ideas, but I can't.
Yeah.
Like you and me, it's
like, I can't tell you
how many good ideas I've
heard from other people.
I'm like, you should
do something with that.
That's a.
Totally.
Good business.
You can, you can make a
lot of money with that.
It might be, you know,
a five to 10 year
process to pull it out.
But that's a retirement
idea, you could
retire off that one.
But anyway, I
suppose people aren't
interested in doing it.
It's like the Beatles,
how come they had
so many good hits.
They had so many
bad ones as well.
And they just tried and
tried and they saw which
ones worked and some will
take off and some won't,
but the, yeah, the, um.
But not being afraid
I think, you said
something too.
You can't be afraid
of falling flat
on your face.
And I mean, I've started,
you know, websites that,
uh, I worked on for a few
months and I'm just like,
I'm gonna abandon this.
And I can remember, you
know, taking crap from
some of my buddies.
They're like, oh my
god, you know, making
fun of me for doing I'm
like, I didn't care.
You know, you
just have to like.
You can't.
No, no, no, no, no,
but just like being
okay with just like
trying different things.
And eventually, you
know, if anybody out
there who's interested
in starting a business,
it's like, your first
thing may not work out.
Your second thing
may not work out.
But if you're willing
to keep trying things
and you're not afraid
of like the frustration
that comes along with
failure, um, and trust
your instincts, I would
guarantee eventually,
like, you're gonna,
you're gonna have a
good idea that's gonna,
it's gonna stick.
Cause everybody can,
anybody can have a
good idea, you know,
a lot of people do
have good ideas.
Well, you know, I,
one other thing that I
find, and I don't know
if this is a shared
thing amongst other
entrepreneurs, but, uh,
whatever that idea is,
you can make it happen.
Whether you turn around
and look back afterwards
and say, was it worth it?
Maybe, maybe not
there after some time
I found that really
smart ones are able
to identify, wait,
this is not the best
direction to be going in.
Let's pivot and take a
better direction, but
no matter what your
idea is, if you're,
whatever it is, selling
little widgets, you
can make it work.
It might be a
lot of work.
It might be every
hour of the day, but
you can make it work.
You might look back
and say, man, there
was much easier things
I could've done.
And I think that's where
a lot of people, uh, fail
is because they don't
see, they don't see it
working or they don't see
that instant success out
of it, or maybe they're
smart and they, they're
not as pig headed.
And they say, you know,
I think it would be a
lot better for me to
do this other thing.
Just work for somebody
else and I'll make as
much or more money.
But I don't know
if they'd have the
same satisfaction.
Yeah.
I don't know either.
I think, you know,
one thing I've noticed
in my like peer group
of business people,
um, they tend to be
very stubborn group.
Um, um, I am a stubborn
person for sure.
And, um, I just think,
you know, not, not
taking no for an answer
or taking, you know,
every challenges as just
like, I'm not gonna, not
accepting what's given
to you is just like a
common thread, um, that.
Right.
I see, uh, it's, it's
both a blessing and
a curse for those
people that I know who
are friends of mine
who fit that bill so.
Well there's
always a solution.
We might not see it yet.
If we've tried
everything.
Keep trying because
you haven't found
that solution yet.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
I mean, just, I mean,
just to bring that
home, I mean, think
about this, Argali, I
thought of it in 2010,
I failed at starting a
clothing company, um,
for a variety of reasons,
which I won't even get
into, but there was a
five-year lull where
I tried other things,
not, not Argali, but I
was like poking around
at different things
and I, none of them
really came to fruition,
like none of them.
Um, and it wasn't that,
uh, I wasn't really
trying seriously, like
I had, I was just like
doing things I was
interested in, um,
hunting and rock climbing
are kind of the two
things I'm interested in.
So I was trying
some things out in
the climbing world.
Um, and none of it, none
of it real seriously,
but there wasn't, there
was a five-year gap
in there before I felt
like there was something
worth doing that actually
had legs .Um, Yeah.
And you know, again,
every day I question
whether or not this is
actually gonna work out.
So it's a, it's a,
it's a daily struggle.
It's still an
ongoing process.
So are you a trad
climber, sport climber?
Everything.
Yeah, I think my, my
preferred style, I
love Alpine Alpine
rock climbing.
Um, but uh, spent
a lot of time, uh,
sport climbing.
I've traveled
internationally, a sport
climb, um, and do a lot
of that here locally.
And I think before I
had kids, I did a lot
more traveling, Alpine
climbing all over the
place and we have a lot
of great Alpine climbing
here too, but, um, a
little bit of everything
I do and in the winter
I bolder a lot for, uh,
just strengthen strength
training, but yeah.
Keeps you fit for hunting
season that's for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a nice balance to
hunting too you know.
I get, I get bored
easily and I, I love
hunting, but it's
nice to have a break.
Um, balancing in life for
me is really important.
Not just with my own
personal interests, but
family, you know business
is a break from hunting.
Um, you know, the thing,
the thing that nobody
tells you about starting
a business in the hunting
industry is that like,
you know, your customers,
uh, want things during
hunting season, which
means that you have to
think about their needs.
Yeah.
That's your season shot.
Yeah exactly.
Exactly.
Well, that balance
that you're talking
about, that can be
incredibly difficult.
And I know some
entrepreneurs, some
driven people will
have a very difficult
time changing gears,
whether it's work,
work, work, or family,
family, family, and try.
And how do you
manage that balance?
Uh, I think poorly and
it's a constant struggle.
Like if I'm being honest,
like I, uh, I shouldn't
say poorly, like, I,
I, I try really hard to
find that balance, but,
you know, it's like, if
there's, if this is the
balance point right here,
you know, it's like, I'm
constantly kind of going
back and forth and I'm
always trying to find
the middle, but it's like
this invisible middle
that I never know if I'm,
if I'm on the right spot.
Um, uh, I'd say that the
thing that I have with,
you know, going with my
wife is we just have a
really honest, candid,
transparent relationship.
So she feels like, um,
um, too far, uh, on
the, on one side of
that scale, she's gonna
tell me, um, she'll be
very direct about it.
Like you're
working too much.
You need to, we
need to do something
in the family.
And it's like,
you're right.
I, we do.
That's so important.
It is.
And I, without that,
like, this are my
whole situation.
Wouldn't work very well.
Cause I.
I don't need somebody
to, uh, tell me
to go to work.
I wake up early in
the morning and I'm
excited to do it.
Just like a lot of people
who love what they do
and, you know, it's,
uh, 8:45 um, I'm going
to work til probably
midnight tonight.
Not because that's why
every day, but because
like there's some things
to do and I'm going for
a work trip tomorrow.
Um, but you know, this
last weekend I spent the
last couple of weekends,
uh, camping and hanging
out with the family and
the kids and going up,
you know, not doing,
not doing anything,
uh, uh, that I would be
doing if I, if I had my
like, choice of doing
something active right.
But just going out and
hanging out with the
family, taking the kids
fishing, um, and, uh,
anyways, just doing, you
know, fun family stuff.
So I try and and spend
when I'm not, when I'm
not traveling, when I'm
hunting, being present
with my family and
then also scheduling
things out with my wife.
So, uh, you know,
work, we went to
Hawaii this year
we're going next year.
Beautiful.
Which island?
Uh, we went to Maui last
year and we're going to
go to Maui again because
we had so much fun.
Nice.
Yeah.
Yeah I've always spent,
I did Maui once, but
it was uh, Kauai, spent
a fair bit of time on
Kauai north shore Oahu.
Oh okay.
Even though, Oahu can be
a bit busier, get on the
north shore and quite
enjoy it over there.
Nice.
Were you hunting or just
surfing or hanging out?
Surfing.
Yeah actually, um, I
remember, uh, a seat
sale came up one time
and a friend calls up.
He says, there's a
fantastic seat sale.
It was, I forget
how much it was.
I know the grand total
was $500, $500 covered
the flight there and
back back, and this was
a Kauai and we surfed
Hanalei and well we
surfed all over, but
spent the most of the
time and Hanalei uh,
it covered the, uh,
between the two of us.
Uh, my half of the
vehicle rental, my
half of accommodations,
which was the vehicle.
We just slept
inside a van.
My, my surfboard
rental and my food.
It was just under $500.
And, um, of course
we didn't have much
money and that was
really appealing.
And, but I said,
no, I, I can't go.
And, uh, because my
daughter was just born,
she's a week old and
my wife says there's
nothing you can do
for her right now.
Why don't you go, you're
not going to get this
opportunity again,
go, which bless her,
thank her very much.
But uh, ended up spending
a week in Kauai for
just under 500 bucks
surfing and I haven't
seen the seat sale like
that come up again.
That was pretty,
that's a pretty cheap
Hawaiian vacation.
Yeah.
Well, when you're eating
like ramen noodles and
even sleeping in the back
of the minivan, it sure
helps cut costs as well.
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I,
you know, I think it's,
uh, like personally
for me it sounds like
you're probably the same
way Travis, is that the
hunting climbing and, and
other things are really
like important for my,
for me to be me and me
to be present and be a
good dad, a good partner.
And, um, I, I envy people
who don't really need
that, that can just be
present all the time
without doing things
or having, you know, in
some ways it's like, man,
it sounds really nice.
Um, but it's just, it, it
is just not, it's just
not who I am and I've
come to terms with that.
And, uh, so if I, if
I get restless really
easily, uh, I never
envisioned myself
getting married or
having kids is, uh,
in my, in my twenties.
And then I met my wife
and she's fantastic
and changed, changed
everything, and she's.
Yes.
Phenomenal and I wouldn't
trade it for the world,
but, um, yeah, it's,
it's, it's tough, man.
It's like finding that
balance when doing
the things that are
really important to you
pursuing your dreams
as a person, as a
human, but also being
a human you're, a dad
and a good partner, or
husband or, or, or wife,
whatever the case may be.
Um, and I don't pretend
to have it figured out
and, uh, I'm always
trying to do everything.
And I think just being
totally candid, it's,
it's a challenge.
And, you know, uh, don't
don't necessarily do
a a hundred percent,
uh, you know, a great
job all the time, but,
uh, try and, you know,
try and find that
balance all the time.
As long as we're trying,
that's all we can do.
So you've got two,
two kids now, right?
I do.
Yeah.
Two girls.
Two girls.
And I remember watching
one of your series there,
and you're talking about
wanting to, uh, take them
out hunting and I think.
Yeah.
It was a couple of years
back, are they have
an age where they've
been able to come on
hunting with you yet.
So my, my oldest daughter
is about six years old
and she's been out Turkey
hunting with me twice.
Uh.
Nice.
Yeah.
So, um, which
has been fun.
It's kind of a nice,
like intro to hunting.
If you like Turkey
hunting can be
fairly pedestrian.
Cause you get it, you
can sleep in and go out
and you can get some,
you can call birds in
and they can, you know,
see a bird gobbling
their brains off.
I don't know.
I don't know
if you guys do.
It keeps it fun.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
Um, although this last
year, my oldest daughter,
we called in a Tom who
was just gobbling his
brains off about 20
yards out from the blind.
We were my brother and I
were taking his daughter
out who's who can't hunt.
And my daughter was
just along for the
ride and she just
slept through the whole
thing, just a Tom,
like gobbling out, just
strutting and gobbling
right out front of us.
And she's just like,
she's cold asleep in.
So I'm like, well, this
is like, I wanted to
come show you this.
I was more excited
than she was and we.
Oh totally.
Get out there and
she's just like, eh,
I'd rather, I should.
She's just excited to
be out there with you.
I mean, they'll whole
hunting and everything
else is, you know,
when, uh, before having
kids, I said, you know,
made the commitment,
gonna have kids.
And essentially, uh, I've
made the commitment that
my life is now second
place, essentially w
all the things I want to
do or now second place.
And first priority
is going to be
kids and family.
And I think in some
ways that's, uh, it's
got merit, but what
you're saying earlier
about, essentially
being able to identify
what defines you and
not losing that piece.
Now, if you're just
living for the kids and
the family, but you're
not getting out into
the rock and you're not
getting out into the
mountain and you're not
doing these things that
keep you present, then
you're not giving your
best to your family.
And it's sort
of a disservice.
So I, I really like
how you frame that one.
Um.
It feels, uh, at times
I think the, uh, my, for
me, it feels as though
you could call it being
selfish in some ways too.
And it's really, I think
it's a healthy, for me
anyway, it's healthy
to, to be like, always
checking yourself.
Like, are you, you know,
are you doing what's
best for your kids?
Um, or is this, is
this something you
really need to do?
Or is this just you
being selfish and
making excuses so
you can go do the
things you want to do.
Um, and I, S you know,
again, it's like, I
don't, I don't know
what the reality is
in that situation.
And I don't, I don't
think there's ever
going to be it.
There's never an answer
to that question.
Um, but it's, uh, for
me answer asking the
question of myself is
important because it
makes me wrestle with it.
And sometimes I'm like,
you know, you don't
need to go do that.
Like, you know, what's
more important right
now is like, you
need to hang out.
You know, your kids
are having your
daughter's having a
hard time tonight.
You're not, you're not
going to do the thing
we're going to, you're
planning to do, or you
need to cancel that
meeting because there's
something going on right.
Like, so it, it helps
keep it in check.
And I just think
questioning your motives
and why you're doing
something, it's just
a healthy way to try
and find that balance.
Well, something
off something else
that you brought
up was a schedule.
And he said, uh,
scheduling things
in appropriately,
scheduling time with
a family scheduling.
That was one thing
that, you know, people
ask you, they say,
oh, it must be nice.
You've got your own
business and you
can, they'll joke,
you can take any
day off you want.
But the reality
is, is you tend to
work all the time.
And even when you're
not working in the
business, you're thinking
about the business or
working on the business.
And I found that
scheduling your time
and being very diligent
with that is, it
took me a while to
figure that one out.
But it's such an
important piece
of the puzzle.
Is that the
same with you?
Oh man.
Yeah, my schedule, I live
and die by my schedule.
Um, yeah, I mean, if,
like I said, I mean,
when you work, when
you work for somebody
else, uh, you may love
your job, but you could
set that down and walk
away and there are
other people that will
fill in the slack.
I think when it's your
company, you, it's your
baby, uh, not working
all the time or a lot
to make it succeed is
just not in the cards.
It is your thing and
it lives or dies by
the things that you do.
So, um, and if you're
somebody who wants to
see your things succeed,
uh, or your paycheck
is dependent upon it,
um, it's really hard
to just turn it off.
I have a hard time
turning it off, uh,
for that reason.
And so like, yes,
being scheduled is
incredibly important.
Um, I schedule my
time sometime in 15
minute increments.
Right.
To, yeah.
It's like, if I want
to get yeah, six, seven
things done in a two hour
period, I'll block out
15 minute increments.
Like I would to go to
bed tonight for things
I want to do tomorrow
before 7:00 AM, I'm going
to schedule each one of
them out and make sure
I get all of them done.
Um, and it's a way that
it helps bring peace
to my life because I'm
like, okay, I can, I
can not think about that
now because I'm going to
deal with it tomorrow.
Um, and it also brings
structure and allows
me to do other things
that aren't work.
You know, a, a fellow
that I was speaking with
recently on a podcast
and afterwards he, uh,
he says, you know, he's,
uh, he's in his, uh,
mid twenties, younger,
early to mid twenties.
And he says, I'm a
project manager right
now, but I'm young
enough, I'd really like
to run my own business.
And this guy is an
avid outdoors man, and
he's very passionate
about hunting.
And, um, I don't find
what I don't find his
desire, uh, unusual.
I find a lot of
other people, they
say the same thing.
It looks really neat,
I'd really like to, uh,
to start my own thing.
I asked him what
he wanted to do.
He's like, I don't know
yet, but I just, I have
the desire right now.
I don't know what it is,
w what I want to do yet.
What advice
would you give to
somebody like that?
Because I have a feeling
he would want to do
something in the outdoor
world or in the hunting
world cause that's
where he's got such
a big passion for it.
Hmm.
I would say, uh,
yeah, try things.
Like, just try stuff
out, dip a toe in the
water, um, uh, and go
with what you know, too.
Um, I think it's, it's
hard to start a business
uh, if you don't, if
it's something that's
outside of your, your
knowledge base or area of
expertise, everybody has
some area of expertise.
Uh, they have
something that they
know a lot about.
It might be card
games, I'm just
making stuff up here.
Yeah.
You know, but like
everybody has something
or can have something
that they, they have sort
of a unique set, uh,
knowledge set around that
they can, they can figure
out how to like craft a
business around, um, may
not be a good business,
but they can crash
the business around.
Right.
Like, um, and you know,
something that you
know about and feel
as though you can,
uh, contribute some
knowledge to the world
around that is unique.
Uh, I think that's your
best chance for success.
If you try and like
create a, if I were
to go out, let's just
use myself and I was
going to go out and
create like a, uh.
Travis, like, uh,
something maybe that you
do is like, I'm going
to create a tactical
defense training course,
something I don't
know anything about.
Sure.
Uh, I wouldn't, I don't
think I'd have a very
successful business
because I would try to
be like learning and then
like teaching the things
I'm learning to other
people, whereas like, you
know, hunting and hunting
gear, I, you know,
for better, for worse.
I know a lot about
that um, and I think
a lot about it.
So, um, that is, you
know, it's sort of
like our, my unique
value proposition
as a business right.
And so if, if, uh, yeah,
so anyways, I would just
say, think about those
things where you have
a unique set of skills
or unique knowledge,
and it's something that
you're interested in
and that you can figure
out how, you know, what,
what about that knowledge
or that experience that
you can, um, leverage
into a business.
And it might be a
service, service-based
business, or it could
be a more of a product
based business.
Well, you're in sort
of a unique category.
So my wife's a chef
and she would work long
hours in the kitchen.
She'd come home and she'd
be excited about cooking
something or excited
about, uh, uh, dry aging
our own uh westphalia ham
or whatever it might be.
And most people who work,
it's like the mechanic
that's got the crummy car
because they never want
to touch her own vehicle
just enough to get there
and back from work.
Cause they're working
on it all day, you're
in a position where
you've taken your
passion, you've taken
something that you
love and you kind of
made it your work.
Do you find that it's, do
you find that difficult?
Like does it take some
of the joy out of your
work when you're, okay
now I'm I know I'm out
there, but I'm field
testing one of my
pieces of equipment or?
Does that get difficult?
Yeah.
Um, I mean, I, I,
my general operating
assumption is that the
minute this business
or my work stop, ceases
to be fun, I'm going
to walk away from it.
And I think about that
frequently, and I say no
to things that I don't
think are fun or keeping
this interesting for me.
And I try very hard to,
and I work very hard to
create a business that
is interesting to me
and doesn't make me hate
hunting and hunting gear.
Um, cause it's, it's,
it's a, uh, making your
passion your job is not
always the best thing.
Um, it's not the best,
that's the right thing
to do necessarily either.
Um, uh, it's, it's kinda
like, there's a reason
I don't, I never, I've
never become a guide.
Never official like
been a big hunting
guide and it's because
I know it would
ruin hunting for me.
Uh, and it lot
of respect.
Yes I could see that.
To other guides like,
I just, I think I would
have some great clients
that I enjoyed hanging
out with, but I would
have, there would be some
people that I'm like,
man, this is not fun.
I don't want to
do this anymore.
And that would make me,
you know, and so for me,
one of the ways I keep it
fun is I carve out a lot
of time to go hunting.
So hunting, I have may I
make a commitment every
year to, to hunt as
much as I possibly can.
I don't know how long
I'm going to be alive
on this planet so, um,
I didn't start this
business to not continue
to hunt or to keep
doing fun adventures.
And so I take large
chunks of time
and I go hunting.
Um, and when I'm out
hunting, it's, it
is definitely, uh,
it's a lot of work
because usually we're
filming content, right.
So we might be going
on a hunt, but there's
cameras around.
I might be self filming
or we have, uh, one
or two people running
cameras and that's,
um, it's not, uh, it
definitely changes
the hunt when that,
when that's, what's
going, when you
have cameras around.
Yes.
There are times where I
have been very frustrated
by the cameras.
And I've just said,
like, I'm over this.
Like, I don't, I don't
want to do this and
like, this is not fun.
I just want to go hunt,
like the way I used to,
uh, by myself or with
my family, my friends,
not to worry about this,
but, you know, that's,
uh, um, it's, it's
almost like a spoiled kid
crying that he has too
much money or something,
you know, like.
Sure.
I mean, it's, it's,
it's kind of ridiculous.
It's like you
have created.
I get it though.
Yeah, I mean, I get it,
but at the same time,
I'm like, you know, like
you've created a business
where you get to go on
all these like fun trips
and like, you know,
if anybody else looked
from the outside they're
like, cry me a river um.
Right.
You know, that's,
it's, you've created
this world, like
now live in it.
Um, so it's, uh, to me
it's a small pence to
pay and I, I usually,
uh, the way I try and
balance that as I'll do,
you know, one or two,
uh, hunts a year with
no cameras around just,
just me and either by
myself or with buddies
and just like, it's
just me hunting for me.
Um, and that
keeps me centered.
I'd say I haven't, um,
I actually really love
making products and
I love testing gear
and I haven't gotten
tired of that yet.
I might get tired
of it someday.
I reserve the right
to hate it at some
point, I haven't
reached that point
yet, I still love it.
I think about it.
It's the last thing
I think about when I
go to bed, typically
it is the first thing
I think about when I
wake up in the morning,
I . Think about fabrics.
Really?
It is it's and I love it.
I, I am, uh, I mean,
it's, it's, it's,
it is good for, I
mean, if there's a
reason I'm doing what
I'm doing, right.
It's like.
Totally.
And I think the,
when, when you're
making a product,
there is no detail
that is insignificant,
not one down to the
size of the thread.
Uh, the, you know,
the, the elasticity of
the thread, there is
nothing that I consider
to be insignificant
on a product, nothing.
And that drives
people around me,
probably crazy.
Um, but it is, but
you know what, like
that's, you know, I feel
like that's what sets
our products apart is
like, I don't, I'm not
satisfied with that.
And if I don't like
it, we won't make it.
Um, and.
Absolutely.
I have, I have spent, I
have been in a room with
one of our engineers
and we're looking at 3D
printouts our knives.
And I mean, there
was, there was a knife
design or Serac knife.
I can't tell you how many
additions of our Serac
we went through where we
were, we were printing
out 3D prints, just
trying to get the shape.
Right.
First of all, and I
had the way our design,
I'm not an engineer.
So like, you know,
I, I rely on people
that have a lot more
skill and talent than
I do to actually bring
these products to life.
But I drew it.
I draw them out like to a
T of what I want exactly.
And I'm like, okay,
this is what I, this
is the shape, the size
dimensions, everything
like, this is what
I want, you know, it
was just, you get into
a CAD file and get
some 3D print outs.
And it was off
like, probably
about a millimeter.
And I was looking at
it and I'm like, this
is, this is wrong.
This is like, can you
see how, like this
little part of it, it's
like, got about a half a
millimeter more and he's
like, I can't see that.
And I'm like, it's there.
And you know, like,
that's the kind of like,
neurosci, neuroses that
goes into like product
design and development,
but I, I love that stuff.
And so it's what, it's
what keeps me going.
Um, and I really do
enjoy that process.
Well, you can really tell
that you've thought these
things through, because
even you, you look at
the products that you're
designing, even like the
game bags and you you're
going through all, you
can use a drawstring
string for this.
You can actually
use it as a pillow.
We set it up like
this so you can use
that as a stuff, sack.
And it's, every little
bit of it has, if you
need emergency shoelaces,
here you go right.
You've thought
that through.
And you've got another
one that, uh, I gotta
get my name on the
pre-order list here
somehow, but you've got
a belt you've designed.
I'll get you, I'll get
you on the pre-order.
Yeah.
The Kodiak belt.
Yes.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
It's funny.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah.
I'll, I'll tell
you about it, man.
And I, I should tell
you, like, I'm not in
the, like the survival
wilderness skills
community, but the
number of people from
that community who
reached out to me and
be like, Hey, can I get
one of those things?
Um, I'm like, I don't
have any to give you
right now, but, um, uh,
so our Kodiak belt, it
is a field belt and a
knife sharpener in one.
Um, so it is a, um, I
wanted it to be like, you
know, a, the ideal belt
that I would want to wary
wear, uh, for hunting and
for just everyday use.
And so just thinking
about, um, how it fits
underneath the backpack,
um, the, the weight
of it, the shape of
the buckle, everything
like, you know, I want
it to just be that
ideal buckle that just
happened to be made out
of materials that could
shape, sharpen or hone
any knife, broadhead or
anything, any fishing
hook, anything else
you want to keep sharp.
Um, the, uh, speaking
of product design and
being anal retentive,
this product took me
like two years of like
concerted effort and
just trial and error.
And at one point, uh,
walking away for six, uh,
oh close to six months,
again, it was just
never going to work um.
Really?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, man.
Cause I couldn't
figure it out.
So if you haven't
seen the product,
you have to go check
it on our website.
It is a, I mean, I'm
biased, but it is, it's
a cool product, it is
a cool ass product.
It's pretty cool.
I agree with you.
Yeah, it's it has
three differs
different materials
built into the belt.
So, um, think about
just materials that are
integrated into the belt
that can, that can fully
shape sharpen your knife.
Um, there is a six inch
vegetable tan leather
strap that is sewn
into the webbing of
the belt on the side.
There is a tungsten
carbide bar that is,
that is seated in the
top of the, of, uh,
the buckle itself as a
thin sheet of aluminum.
And on the top of that,
on one of the, uh, uh,
top sides, we have a
thin, a thin piece of,
uh, tungsten carbide.
And then on the back,
what I say, what I
call the coup de gras
of the belt, on the
back of the buckle is
a flush piece of, uh,
800 grit, diamond grit.
So you can.
So cool.
Yeah.
That, that diamond
grit piece of it that
took forever to figure
out how to make that
the tungsten carbide.
I mean, tungsten carbide
is not a common knife
sharpening material.
Um, I just happened to
have a good friend of
mine, who I went to high
school with, who is a PhD
material scientist, and
I'd stop by his office.
And I'd say, you know,
he doesn't know anything
about knife sharpening.
He's like in like, you
know, material science,
he's mostly doing like
high tech, you know,
computer processing,
you know, microchips.
And, but he knows
a little bit about
everything and I
stopped by his office.
His name is Brian,
and I'd be like,
Brian, here's what
I'm trying to make.
I don't really know,
you know, like here's
the common materials
for knife sharpening.
And he's like, hey,
you ever thought about
tungsten carbide?
And I was like, no,
I haven't, I don't
really know a whole lot
about tungsten carbide.
And then I started.
Yeah.
So Brian had no.
And so I started testing
it and I was like, this
stuff actually works, you
know, to sharpen a knife.
Um, but it's also
really expensive.
It's tungsten carbide
is used to like drill
bits to like drill
in, you know, rare
minerals and like it's
used on the bottom of
trekking poles as well.
Um, but the first,
the, so the first belt
we made, um, complete
belt, the, the price,
like our price for it
was about $300 a belt.
Like that was how much
it was gonna cost for us
to make individual units,
let alone sell it at a.
Right.
At a profit.
And I was like, there is
no way where, no one's
going to pay, you know,
whatever, 400, 500 bucks
for a, uh, a belt buckle.
It doesn't matter
what it does.
Unless it has like.
Got a limited market.
Yeah, it has a blow
torch that like comes
out of it or something
can like start a fire
or like, um, so anyways.
Do your taxes for ya.
Yeah, exactly.
So just figuring out
how to like, get the
manufacturing uh, right.
And getting, getting a
process down with our
manufacturer that, that
actually made it at a
price that people would
be built, willing to pay.
It took a long time
and then just getting
the materials right.
And the design, right.
Um, yeah, it just
took a long time.
And then, and then the
thing, the other thing
that, uh, you'll see
people see if they look
at it the way the webbing
capture system works, it
creates a really flush,
uh, flush system against
your stomach, uh, which
I really wanted because
anybody who's ever
packed out, had a heavy
pack on knows that when
you cinch down your hip
belt, if you have like a
traditional webbing belt,
it creates a little bulge
right around your stomach
and your hip belt, which
is either you have to
either push that bulge
above or below your hip
belt, or it digs into
your stomach and so it's
really uncomfortable.
Um, the way our weapon
capture system works,
it creates a really flat
surface that mirrors
the shape of your belt
buckle on your backpack.
And so it creates a flat
plate essentially which
is a really comfortable
way, um, to, uh, to
wear a belt buckle.
So anyways, I L this
belt has been it, you
know, it's only on
presale right now.
We started a pre-sale
a few months back.
It doesn't actually, it
won't actually be for
sale, um, probably until
at least late October.
Um, and you know, so far
it's, it's been a very,
very popular item for us.
Um, uh, but I will,
I will get you on the
presale list there.
Please.
So you brought up a
bunch of things and I
should be taking notes.
Cause my my ADHD
mind will jump all
over the place.
But you're talking
about, um, we've
talked about filming.
I really want to
touch on that.
So if we don't, remind
me, um, as well, heavy
packs now you've got
a climbing background.
Are you, are you familiar
with Mark Twight?
Oh, uh,to Kiss or Kill
is one of my all time.
I read that thing
about once a year.
Okay.
So in listening to you
talk and watching you,
I'm like, you know, I
I'm sure there's some
Mark Twight philosophy
that's kind of rubbed
off here a little bit
because I definitely
see that you go fast,
you go hard, but you'll,
uh, and lightweight.
Um, is that, would that
be a correct assessment?
I, I think, you know,
I actually, the first
article I ever wrote
for our field notes
was, uh, it was based on
Mark Twight's philosophy
of light and fast.
Um, so that's funny.
I'm, it's funny
to hear you talk
about Mark Twight.
Sounds like you're
a fan as well.
Um, I don't
actually know.
I am yes.
Personally, but, um,
I think he, his, his
way of approaching
the mountains is how
I approach my life uh.
I agree.
Yes.
Is that, does that make
sense that you try?
So if you're not
familiar with Mark
Twight, his book to
Kiss or Kill, everybody
should read that book.
It's about, it's a series
of essays that are about
his climbing adventures.
Um, they're phenomenal
stories in general,
but there's a lot
to be learned about.
Uh, there's a lot to be
learned in period, period
from Mark Twight's book.
And I think one of the
things that, that Mark
really pioneered, you
know, it used to be that,
you know, mountaineers
went, uh, when, when they
would want to climb a
big mountain, it was like
a siege tactics, like
lots of guys, lots of
gear you'd shuttle gear.
You just essentially
stage gear up the
mountain food, water,
tent, supplies.
And it was just like
a siege tactics.
Like it took forever,
but eventually you
get to the top stack
enough people, enough
hours, enough ropes.
Eventually you're
gonna get the top of
the mountain and here
comes Mark Twight.
And I think some other
contemporaries taking
nothing like no gear,
no shelter, going, you
know, solo climbing,
a lot of the time.
Uh, but just really
this idea that once
you shed yourself
of all your weight.
You can go so much
faster and cover
so much more ground
and do so much more.
And it was revolutionary
at the time.
It totally was a
revolutionary tactic.
Um, I, I apply that same
mentality to my hunting.
Um, the less you take,
the more the, you
know, the more you can
do, um, things slow
you down, everything
slows you down.
Weight slows you down.
There's a balance
to be had there, but
that philosophy of
like the more you
carry more weight,
you have, the more, it
just slows you down.
And, uh, there's
definitely a, a lot of,
I get a lot of pushback
for that from guys.
You're like, ah, that's,
you're, you're, you
know, blowing this
out of proportion.
You know, there's, you
know, and I may take
it to a little bit of
an extreme, but, you
know, my experience
has shown me that every
ounce, it really does
add up and it affects
your mental attitude.
It affects your physical
abilities, it effect, it
can affect everything.
So I carry that through
also to our business
life, my personal life.
It's the yeah.
Less is more sort
of mentality.
Well, totally well, and,
well, Mark me the very,
uh, astute observation.
He says, you know, people
are getting injured or
dying in the mountains
because of the length of
time they're out there.
And the amount of
exposure you're getting
more tired, you're
getting mentally
fatigued, your body
isn't working the
way it would in this.
He said, let's, let's try
taking this differently.
Let's go fast, let's go
light, let's go hard.
And it's funny, a
friend of mine he's,
um, uh, ex British army.
He's been on this
podcast talking about
his, uh, the selection
process for SAS and his,
his time doing that.
And he says, you know,
reading, Mark Twight's
book, um, anything he's
got a couple of, he says
the training program that
he puts forth in, uh, in
this book is very, very
similar to the training
program that they use
for elite special forces
in the British military.
And, uh, the mentality of
being able to accomplish
a mission, um, in a
very effective way.
Mind you, Mark would put
the caveat out there with
the go fast, go light,
you also have to be
able to exercise proper
judgment and turn around.
That mountain will always
be there, turn around
if conditions aren't
looking favorable, come
back again and try fast
and hard the next day.
Um, as opposed to just
slogging through, because
that's where people find
themselves in trouble.
Yeah, no, and I, I
think those are words,
words to live by, you
know, it's like it
that, yeah, I, I do.
I think there is a
certain amount of, of,
uh, mental and physical
tenacity that Mark and
other, uh, people that
I've known that are like
him, that I have applied
to, you know my life
in many different ways.
There's a lot from
climbing that I've
learned about myself
and that I apply to
business life and
to hunting as well.
Um, you know how to deal
with fear is a big one,
not letting fear control
you, getting out of
your comfort zone and,
and, you know, knowing
when you're actually in
danger versus when you,
your mind is convincing
me that you're in
danger and you're just
scared, you might be
scared, but you're safe.
Right.
That's what, and I don't,
I don't know if that's
been true for you in your
climbing, but like, I.
Yeah.
I, you know, I can
distinctly before kids.
I can, I could, I did a
lot of things that, you
know, people close around
me don't really know
about, and I don't really
care to tell them about.
My wife doesn't ask
me a lot of questions
about things that I
used to do, I got lucky.
Sure.
Um, I've, I've
been very lucky.
I've had some situations
that probably could have
gone, like a lot worse
could have gotten worse
than they did because
nothing ever happened.
Um, after kids, uh, I
told myself like, I'm not
going to dial it back.
Um, I've definitely
dialed it back
and I think it's
the right call.
Um, but there's,
there are I still like
getting out and, uh,
not scaring myself, but
I like getting out and
just dealing with that,
you know, fear of, of,
uh, of being in the
mountains and going fast
and trying hard things.
You have to do that.
You gotta do that.
I do anyway.
Um, uh, yeah, and
like, as an example,
there's still another
buddy of mine.
Who's a, just an
absolute crusher climber.
Um, he and I are trying
to do this thing and
there's this route,
there's this piece of
rock in the Sawtooth
mountains of Idaho called
the Elephants Perch,
it's just this granite
dome, 1200 foot granite
dome, and some of the
best rock in lower 48.
Like it is absolutely
perfect granite,
impeccable granite.
And, uh, we have set
out this goal of doing
like, uh, three of the
harder routes there in
a day, which has never
been done before, but
it's all for me, that's
like a way I can push
myself and do new things
that is very physically
and mentally difficult.
That's never been done,
but I also have done
those routes before.
And so I feel very like
safe and confident that
even though there are
some like hard rock
climbing on those,
like it's not a life or
death situation for me.
And so it's a way for
me to like, push my, my
limits, but in a way that
is, uh, a little bit more
controlled and like in a
dad friendly kind of way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, nothing brings
one's own mortality
to the forefront
than having children.
I found anyways, it
really, all of a sudden
the light went on.
Pre-children, I wouldn't
say I didn't care if I
lived or died, obviously
I'd prefer to be alive
than to be dead, but
I never truly feel,
I never truly felt
alive or as alive as
when I almost died.
And I would find myself,
putting myself into
situations which scared
me, or which were, um,
actually, potentially
quite dangerous for the
feeling that you get
afterwards of yes, I've
accomplished something.
I've pushed
myself through.
I've gone further
and, and you know,
I'm not dead and I'm
actually capable of
a heck of a lot more.
Yeah, no, it's true.
Um, I still love that.
Uh, yeah, you just,
it's, it's a personal
growth, you know, um,
learning about yourself.
What is the, what's the,
um, what's the famous
quote about, you know,
the problem with riding
the edge is, um, thought
about like once you
find it you're, it's too
late or something uh.
Yeah, oh totally.
It's like ouali.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Um, yeah.
Anyways, but yeah, Mark,
I'm just going back to
Mark, like somebody who,
uh, you know, certainly
is, is, uh, tougher and
shit, as an individually.
Um, you know, his whole
life, I don't know
if you, where like
the Jim Jones and.
Yes.
How we trained all the
guys for that movie.
Was it?
300.
Yeah.
Superman and named it
after the Jonestown
massacre, which is
a little tongue in
cheek thing, but, uh.
Yeah, I mean, he was
definitely like a punk
rock guy, right um.
Yeah.
Uh, but, uh, yeah,
anyways, there's,
there's, uh, yeah,
a lot, a lot to be
learned from Mark.
And I feel like, you
know, a lot of, you
know, hunting without
getting too broey
I feel like hunting
back-country hunting
has got a little broey
in some ways, and I, I
don't really necessarily
like that about it, but.
I agree.
There is a physical
element that I really
enjoy about, uh, about
pushing my limits just
in hunting, you know.
So if we're going to do
a late season hunt in,
you know, for us, you
know, late season, it
might be mid November
and it's down, you
know, zero degrees
Fahrenheit to 30 degrees.
Um, and you're off,
you know, doing a 15,
15 mile, you know,
in the mountain trek.
Um, and it's difficult
and, you know,
that's, there is some
satisfaction that comes
with like accomplishing
something like that.
And I enjoy that part
of it and not, not in
a, not in a sense that
I really care what other
people think about it.
It's a personal thing.
It's a very,
very personal.
And, uh, and I think
that, you know, so
there is, there is,
um, something like
some comparable
element to climbing as
there is to hunting.
Yeah, I agree.
And, you know, you
mentioned something when
we were talking earlier
about introverts and
extroverts, and you said
that, uh, you know, a
lot of content creators,
uh, you've been finding
the ones that you've
been dealing with or
in your opinion are
probably more introverted
than extroverted.
I think we can all
be both, I think.
But can you talk to that?
Yeah, i, uh, I would say
that I'm an introvert
in that, you know, if
I'm defining that is
I don't, I think that
extroverts tend to
get energized by being
around groups of people,
introverts tend to, uh,
uh, have their energy
systems like taken away.
I like that analogy.
And for me, while I
enjoy being in social,
social settings, it is
draining for me, it is,
it is highly draining.
And I can only do so much
of at any one given time.
Um, and most of the other
content creators that I
know are the same way,
um, which honestly kind
of surprised me that you
would think that people
that, uh, are in front
of cameras all the time
would be extroverts
and life of the party
type personalities
like gregarious.
And, and certainly
some of them are.
Um, but, uh, I think
people would be surprised
what people are, how,
how many introverts are
in the content space.
Um, you know, and I'm
speaking to that, to
the hunting world in
particular, just people
that I know, um, that
I've been around.
And I, I don't
know why that is.
I really don't,
but I find it
really fascinating.
There's something,
there's something
that's very like
intimate when I'm out
just self filming.
Um, it feels like
I'm just talking to
a friend when I had
the camera with me.
Like, it doesn't feel
like I'm talking to
thousands of, you know,
strangers on YouTube.
Um, and, uh, so it
doesn't feel as though
I'm being social
when I'm doing that.
But, um, yeah.
Anyways, interesting.
I don't know what it is,
but there are definitely
a lot of introverts out
there grading content.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
I, I would classify
myself in the introvert
category based on that
description of being
around people draining
your energy, because
it definitely doesn't
fill me up and it's
work, it's effort and I
crave the mountains or
I crave the outdoors.
And when I'm out
there, that's when
I'm at my best.
Yeah.
So, you know, there's,
a lot of people will
look at some of the
media that's out there.
They'll look at the
content that you're
putting out and they'll
want to do something
similar, even if it's
just for their family and
friends, or maybe they
want to film something
at a larger scale.
If you were to, uh, take
out and self film your
own, just to self film
yourself, what would
be essential equipment?
What would you want
to bring without going
too heavy and sticking
with the whole Mark
Twight philosophy?
Um, yeah.
That's that is, that's
a good question.
Um, I mean, I'll tell
you what I bring.
Usually I have at least
like a high-end like
camcorder that I use,
um, as my primary camera
and then I'll have, uh,
at least two, usually
two other cameras, like
a point of view camera,
and then a little, we
have this little, uh,
uh, camera that I use
for like motion shots.
And that works out
pretty well for me.
Um, I'd say that, you
know, you can, we get
a lot of questions
about camera equipment
and you can, you
can go really fancy.
I mean, when we go
out with a film crew,
we have a lot fancier
equipment that we
use, camera equipment.
But you don't, you don't
need fancy equipment
to tell a good story.
You can just use,
I mean, you could
even use a GoPro.
The, uh, the thing
that most people, I
think overemphasize
is equipment and they
undervalue story and.
Right.
Yeah.
And the reason people,
if you were to ask,
like why, you know,
just somebody out
there, like, why do
you like this person?
Like, why do you
like Steven Rinella?
Why do you
like MeatEater?
It's because they
like Steve, right?
They like Steve and
yeah, the, the, the
cinematography and
the music and the
editing is like,
it's, it's good right.
I'm not saying it's
bad, but it's the
personalities of the
people you're watching
that you're drawn to.
Um, so, yeah, focus
on the story, focus on
making it personable,
making it interesting
and making it unique.
Um, and, uh, I'd say,
you know, don't try
and copy somebody
else necessarily, try
and figure out like
what your voice is.
And that takes a lot
of trial and error.
I actually, before we
even started filming
years, years prior,
I had taken a little
tiny camera out and
tried to sell film.
And I just remember it
felt so awkward and it
was just garbage, man.
I just remember going
back and looking
at my video clips,
thinking this is awful.
Like you're never
going to, you're never
going to do this.
Like, there's one
thing I can guarantee
you'll never do, it's
make hunting content.
And you got a whole
ton of them out
now, don't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
it's, it's definitely,
I was wrong about that.
So.
Yeah.
And they're fantastic.
Are you doing any of
the editing yourself
or do you have other
people helping with that?
So, uh, we do
it all in house.
My, my business partner,
Jason does all that.
So the guy that I had the
beer with, um, he's, he
actually self filmed and
is in some content now.
He's always been
behind the camera,
but we've been pushing
him to get out in
front of the camera.
He's a great guy.
Um, and so he does
all of our, uh,
all of our editing.
We, we do it, we used to
do a lot of it together.
Um, but now we've kind
of, because we've gotten
busier and bigger, we've
kind of just distributed
the, the roles and
responsibilities a lot.
So he does pretty
much everything on
the editing side now.
And I will join him in
the editing bay, um,
occasionally, but it's
pretty much all him.
Wow, I mean, it's really,
I mean, you're talking
about the stop motion.
Are you watching like
the, uh, the star
is going over ahead
or motion graphics
tracing over top
of the ridgeline.
Like there's a lot of
work that's gone into
these videos that, uh,
that you guys are making.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then when we do
motion graphics, I've,
you know, a friend
of mine named Conrad,
he's a really talented
motion graphics guy.
So we, we, we definitely
pull in for our
bigger film pieces.
We try and make them,
uh, visually appealing
and have a cinematic
element to them as well.
Um, and some of that
too, is to make them
appealing to people that
aren't into hunting.
Yeah.
I think that's, I
think that's a huge
point right there.
Yeah.
I think, I think you're
really, you're, you're
broadening the horizon
of what hunting is to
people who otherwise are
used to the old grip and
grin type type shows.
And you might be
introducing a whole new
generation of people
who wouldn't otherwise
want, want to be
interested in hunting.
I think that's a
really smart thing that
you guys are doing.
Yeah.
Thank you.
We, we try and some,
certainly some of the
more, some of the, the
most like valued feedback
that I've received is
from people that do
not hunt, but they have
watched like our, our
film about the Frank
Church Wilderness,
the Last Wild Places
series about the Frank.
And they're like,
man, that was a
cool adventure.
I don't even hunt,
but that sounds like
something I might be
interested in doing
or thanks for sharing
that, that trip.
Um, so yeah.
That's really cool.
And then audio, we
talked with the video.
Audio is obviously
very important.
Yes.
Are you bringing
separate microphones
or are you just using
the on-camera bikes or?
I use an onboard mic,
uh, so, so when I'm
self filming, I have an
onboard mic, um, that
sits on my camera and,
uh, sometimes we will
use separate, um, w w
if we have, like, for
bringing in other people,
yes, we'll bring in, um,
separate mics as well.
And mic up occaisionally
for interviews, but
it's a pain to bring
in, you know, always be
wearing a mic and it's
just not realistic.
So shotgun mics are
pretty standard for us.
Yeah.
Like a little road
pro plus or something
or something similar.
Exactly.
Yep.
Um, it depends on the
camera, we have a few
different cameras.
So depending on which,
which one, we have
kind of different,
different mics that can
go on those cameras.
So we will bring
in, you know, mics
to capture audio.
There are there
have been, you know,
capturing good audio
is, is also something
I didn't appreciate.
And I don't think
a lot of like new
content creators really
appreciate that audio can
really is, is a backbone
of a content piece.
And so spending the
time to get that audio
is really important.
That was something
that stood out to me,
watching your stuff,
that, that, that audio
work is something you
guys obviously spent
a lot of attention to.
A ton, a ton.
Yeah.
And we've, we have gotten
back home sometimes
and been like man, the
audio from, you know,
this day and this day,
and this day is garbage.
Like it was, the
wind was the wind
noise was too much.
And that's a bummer
because when you spend
all that time and your
audio is garbage because
it leaves some holes
in your, in your story
or your editing, you
have to get creative.
But, um, yeah, and
that's, again, that's not
something I understood.
And we got into this,
you know, my, my
business partner, I'm
fortunate to have him
because he, um, he
understands sort of the
technical storytelling
side of the film world.
I think we're a good
balance in terms of
knowing what, uh,
what the story we want
to tell and working
together to sort of
weave that together.
Um, but his, his, I
would say technical
and cinematic, uh,
experience and knowledge
is far, far above mine.
Well, I don't think you
guys are necessarily
monetizing the, um,
this show, are you?
Like.
We, it's funny you
mentioned, asked that.
We, we do some
and not on others.
I mean, here's another,
you want to real talk.
Monetization on YouTube,
anybody who thinks you're
going to go out and just
make a bunch of money
on ads on YouTube, like
not going to happen.
Unless, unless, and until
you hit that like 200,
300 million subscriber
mark, then you can start
making some money on.
Totally.
On YouTube.
Uh, and you're getting
like millions of views
and you're creating
lots of videos, you
know, making a dozen,
two dozen, even 3 dozen
videos and expecting
those are going to make
you a lot of money.
Like this is not
going to happen.
The YouTube ad revenue
system is not set up as
an ecosystem for that
to be a significant
amount of money.
Totally.
So.
W what I think is really
clever at though, is it
like it'll highlight your
kit and that'll highlight
your stuff, and it'll
be showing it being used
in a real environment
and in a real way.
And from a marketing
perspective, although
it's not directly
monetized, I think
that's a very,
very smart approach
that you've taken.
Not only educating people
and entertaining people,
but it's also serves as a
marketing piece as well.
Well, I mean, to me,
like brands are very
interesting thing.
Like what is a brand?
What is a brand that,
you know, you're
wearing an Under Armour
shirt right now right.
Right.
Um, and I'm not saying
that you're in love with
Under Armour, but Under
Armour has a really
interesting brand story.
And we are, we are all,
all of us are, are, none
of us are impervious
to being drawn to
brands because there's
something about them
that, that we identify
with or that we like in
some way, we may not be
able to articulate it.
Well, you may not even
understand it, but brands
speak to us and good
brands who tell a story
about what, who they
are and their values
and what they represent.
Those are the ones that
I like personally, right.
If we.
Totally.
Just, if we didn't have
an interesting uh, brand.
And I think we, we
try very hard to have
a unique voice and
have a unique brand.
We're just a company
that made some game bags
and some knives and had
nothing else interesting
to say, or didn't have
anything else, there was
no backbone behind that.
I don't feel we would
have made inroads the
way we, we have so far.
Um, and I don't do that
as, um, duplicitous or
trying to trick anybody,
but our content is a
way for us to share who
we are and help people
understand and relate
to us as a brand, right?
So it's a way for us
to connect with people.
And that's one of
the wonderful things
about YouTube.
It has, it is the
great leveler, right?
You don't have to
buy ad space or buy a
TV show to like tell
people who you are.
The internet exists,
YouTube exists.
It is yours to use,
to communicate to
your, your audience.
However you see fit.
Um, And so for us, yes,
content is we enjoy
doing it and there's
oftentimes, uh, there
are multiple reasons
why we might do it,
but paramount amongst
those is trying to
communicate who we are
and what we value and
what's important to us.
That's fantastic.
It's the people will
purchase not necessarily
what the product is,
but why the product is.
And I think Simon
Sinek did a neat
little talk on that.
They kind of, I don't
know if you've ever seen
that TED Talk he did.
No.
A talk, oh, it's an
interesting one um.
Have to check it out.
Yeah.
Actually it, because
it basically has spoke
in a much more eloquent
way than I'm sure I
will, but it speaks to
why people are drawn
to different things.
And you essentially
just put that whole idea
into a nutshell there.
People will, people
will get behind a
brand because they
believe in what it is.
People buy Apple
computers, not because
it's got a great monitor
and a great processor
or whatever it is.
There's going to be
other computers that
have better have better
screens and better,
more memory, but they're
buying into an ecosystem
and they're buying
into a culture, they're
buying into, um, whatever
Apple's motto is.
Think differently here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their motto, their
motto isn't we make
great computers or
we make a cool phone.
Right.
It's like yeah,
think differently or
whatever it is, like.
Yeah, think differently.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I.
I, and I think
about that.
Hit the nail on
the head there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, again I, I feel
like it's the, you know,
Patagonia, a brand like
love it or hate it.
That is a, that
is a brand that is
recognizable and has
a very loyal, hardcore
set of customers right.
And because they have,
they have stayed true
to who they are and
what they believe.
Um, and it's more
than just a clothing
company writing.
Nobody thinks that
Patagonia is just
a clothing company.
I don't, anyway, I don't
want us to just be a
gear company, right.
Like I want us to be much
more than that and idea.
I want people to
our customers there,
there are a lot of
our customers who are
probably just buying
a product because
they liked the product
and that's fine.
Sure.
But when I think about
like, what do I want
our customers to think
of when they're opening
up a set of game bags?
I don't want them to
think about like, this
is a throwaway product.
I want them to think
about, like this
represents adventure.
This represents food,
meat, like all the
things that I care about.
It is, uh, it is a, um,
an idea it's a metaphor.
It's not just a
set of game bags.
And I want them to, you
know, sort of understand
like all the reasons
that we created a product
that traditionally it
was a throwaway product.
It's, it's, you know,
it is purpose built for
people that are trying
to, um, go out and find
their own adventure,
whatever that looks like.
And so, sounds
very simple.
I, you know, I'm not
saying we have it
figured out, but that
is what we, how I
think about branding
and, and marketing and
just like the way we,
why, why do we do, why
do we create content?
Um, uh, and how
do we tell our
story as a company?
Well, you're doing a
fantastic job with it.
If we were to switch
gears a little bit and
talk a little bit about
gear, you're going out
on a mountain hunt.
You're going light,
you're going fast.
Um, I'm sure there's
times you've gotten
up there and you've
regretted not bringing
certain things cause
you'd be a heck of a
lot more comfortable,
but what would be
some, uh, you want
on a multi-day hunt?
What are, what are some
necessities that you
just can't live without?
Uh, good question.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm
one of those people
that has spreadsheets
for each hunt I go on.
So like archery mule
deer, archery elk,
um, uh, I, I, so
yeah, so I'm packing
pretty, pretty light.
Um, you know, the basics
of like good backpack,
good boots are, I'd
say like pretty, those
were like the, in
my like hierarchy of
gear needs, like boots
are right at the top.
Um, I don't always take
a tent, um, but usually
take a sleeping bag
and a pad to sleep on
because sleep, getting
decent amount of sleep is
really important for my
like performance and my
ability to think clearly.
Um, and then beyond that,
you know, I, I usually
take a stove for food.
Not always, sometimes
I'll just eat cold, cold
meals or take meals that
don't require hot water.
Um, I rarely leave
without coffee because
I'm addicted to caffeine.
Um, so for all the
lightweight, lightweight
talk that I do, um,
I usually don't leave
home without some,
some, uh, some little
coffee packets um.
Yeah.
So yeah, boots bag, uh,
just normal stuff, man.
Normal backpacking gear,
nothing, nothing fancy.
I don't take a
leatherman, I don't
take a multi-tool.
Um, I try not to take
anything that doesn't
have, uh, at least
a couple of uses.
It's not always doable,
but I just try and
make due with as little
as I can and still
be like comfortable.
So I don't like
going hungry.
That's the other thing
is like, I don't like
starving out there and
I, um, I'm not, I'm
not a particularly, um,
6'2", 180, uh, fairly
like thin dude, but
like I eat like I'm a
lot bigger than that.
So, uh, I I'd probably
take sometimes a little
more food that I need
to, but, uh, depending
on the length of the
hunt, I'm okay carrying
an extra half a pound
of food if that means
I'm not sitting up there
wishing I had more.
Um, and then I, you
know, I rarely, uh,
most mountain hunts.
I pretty much always
take a tripod usually
cause I'm filming.
But also because I, I
always, uh, especially
for like deer hunting,
uh, but pretty much
every, every kind
of hunting, I prefer
to glass with my
binoculars on my tripod,
as much as I can.
And I just, you
just catch so much
more game that way.
Deer, elk, you know,
whatever sheep, goats,
like bedded down that you
might not see otherwise.
So, um, I carry a few
items that I consider
sort of important
hunting items like
that, um, that you could
probably, some people
might say you could do
without, but I think
it's pretty important.
You bringing a spotting
scope as well, or
just using the bino's
for all your work?
Spotting scope if
I'm hunting mule
deer, for sure.
Um, I don't, you know,
elk, elk are, are kind of
big and easy to see and I
can, uh, I'm not, I'm not
much of a trophy hunter
when it comes to elk.
I like shooting big elk
um, but I am for deer,
I tend to trophy hunt.
And so I like
to know what I'm
looking at before
I dive in after it.
So spotting scope
for deer, um, and
depends on the trip.
So sometimes I'll take a
spotting scope sometimes
I'll just take a bigger
set of binocular.
So last year we did like
a backpack hunt that
was, you know, I don't
know, 11 miles in 5,000
vertical feet to get
through our high camp.
So I was really
thinking pretty hard
about my gear choices.
Um, took a hot tent.
So I had a collapsible
titanium stove,
but I didn't take a
canister fuel stove.
I just took a, uh,
titanium cup to
heat up my water on.
Um, so, so made some
sacrifices there.
I also didn't take
a spotting scope,
wish I would have.
Um, but ended
up taking a.
What were you
hunting on that one?
Mule deer.
Mule deer on that one.
Okay.
Yeah.
Uh, rutting mule deer
in that one and, uh,
you know, there's, uh,
I ended up shooting, uh,
like getting a nice buck,
but there were a couple
of deer, like off of
the distance I was like
really nice frame bucks.
Um, but it was, they
were far enough away
where it's like, I'm
not going to go after
that, unless if it's
like a giant two point
and I just couldn't tell
through my bino's kind of
what I was dealing with.
Um.
Right.
So yeah, anyways,
sometimes I take a
spotter and some, if
that particular trip I
just decided I'm like,
it's not, I, I can
deal with a 12x bino's
on a tripod and leave
the spotter at home.
And I wish it had a
spotter, but I didn't
regret it when we were
hiking in cause that
was, it was helacious.
Right, totally.
Yeah.
I love it.
Is there anything
else that we should
be talking about?
Is there anything
that we've kind
of left out here?
Um, I don't, I
don't think so.
Nothing about me.
I mean, at some point
I'd love to learn more
about you and uh, some
point I need to yeah,
pick your brain about
hunting and Canada.
Cause it's on my list
and I've never done
it, but we can do
that another time.
Yeah.
I, I think, uh, I think
maybe we should have
another podcast and we
can talk about hunting.
Sounds great.
Yeah.
As soon as we open up
these borders here and
we can have some free
travel back and forth and
uh, have you up here and
we'll do some hunting.
Yeah.
I heard you guys might be
opening up your borders.
Did I see that correctly?
Yeah.
What'd they say?
Fully vaccinated
individuals can come on
in, something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, anyways.
Yeah.
It's on a Canada's, I
love, I'm a huge fan
of Canada and I would
love to get up there
and do some hunting at
some point, especially
you guys have giant
mule deer and as a
deer junkie, I've got
my eyeball on that.
Well, thank
you very much.
There's actually a
number of other things
that I'd love to chat
about, but I've taken
a lot of your time and
you've got your family
there and I don't want
to take up too much more.
Maybe we'll look at doing
a part two on another,
another day, but thank
you very much for being
on this Silvercore
Podcast, Brad, I really
I've really enjoyed the
conversation, Travis
and, uh, honored to be
on it and I appreciate
you having me on.