Ep. 183 - Engineer to Entrepreneur: Justin Dean on Automation and Business Growth

In this expansive episode of Manufacturing Hub, we welcome back Justin Dean, an accomplished engineer, entrepreneur, and business leader, for a deep dive into his incredible career journey. Justin has transitioned from a technical expert in control systems and automation to a successful entrepreneur and private equity professional, and in this conversation, he shares valuable insights for anyone navigating the intersection of engineering and business.

We start by exploring Justin’s early career, where his unexpected leap from studying art to pursuing electrical engineering set the stage for his passion for problem-solving. From designing complex control systems for downhole pumps to leading automation projects across six continents, Justin’s career highlights the importance of adaptability and continuous learning. He delves into his transition from engineering roles to business leadership, recounting his decision to start his own company, Sohoma, and how his 13 years of diverse experience and strong industry network enabled him to quickly scale his business.

Justin explains the challenges and rewards of balancing the technical and business sides of running a company. He reflects on the need for engineers to develop a business mindset while staying true to their technical expertise. Sharing his philosophy on leadership, he emphasizes the value of building teams, identifying strengths, and mentoring employees to grow both individually and collectively. Justin also discusses the importance of structuring businesses thoughtfully, including creating complementary entities to address specific market needs.

The conversation broadens into Justin’s experience in private equity, where he helps companies grow by providing mentorship, capital, and strategic direction. He offers advice for engineers interested in moving into private equity or starting their own businesses, encouraging them to focus on solving problems they know best. Justin also touches on the potential for engineers to add value to due diligence processes by leveraging their technical knowledge to evaluate opportunities.

Finally, we explore Justin’s thoughts on the role of artificial intelligence in manufacturing and its potential to optimize processes, enhance worker efficiency, and improve decision-making. He shares his perspective on the evolving dynamics of AI integration, highlighting the importance of empowering employees with these technologies rather than replacing them.

Whether you’re an engineer looking to explore the business side of manufacturing, a decision-maker seeking insights on digital transformation, or simply curious about the journey from technical expert to business leader, this episode is packed with actionable advice, inspiring stories, and valuable takeaways. Tune in to learn how to navigate the exciting intersection of engineering, entrepreneurship, and industry innovation.

About Manufacturing Hub:
Manufacturing Hub Network is an educational show hosted by two longtime industrial practitioners Dave Griffith and Vladimir Romanov. Together they try to answer big questions in the industry while having fun conversations with other interesting people. Come join us weekly!

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Dave helps Industrial companies go through digital transformations that pay for themselves.

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Vladimir Romanov

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  Hey everyone, happy Wednesday. This is Manufacturing Hub. I'm Dave. This guy up here is Vlad. If you guys have been here before, welcome. If you haven't, if you've been here before, welcome. Yeah, whatever. I can't do this anymore. Vlad, I've completely lost my ability to go articulate in the beginning of shows.

So no, if you guys have been here before, welcome back. If you've not been here and this is your first time, welcome. Manufacturing hub is an open, fun conversation show over the course of the next hour or so. We are going to go chat with Justin. He's going to go catch us up on what's been going on.

If you guys want to hear what Justin was doing before, I actually just looked it up. Justin, you were episode. 35 and this is episode 183. So it has been a while since you have been on. In my mind, I'm like, Justin has absolutely been on. I just can't remember what it was. And so it's been a while.

You've got some fun, interesting things fun, interesting things happening. And as part of that, we're going to go have a conversation, discussing. Going from a technical person more towards the business side and some of that balancing of which I think Justin might do better than well, certainly the rest of us, and so I'm interested to go ahead and get into that if you guys are watching on LinkedIn.

If you guys are watching on YouTube or anywhere else, please feel free to go ahead and drop in the comments what's going on where you guys are at, if you have any questions for Justin during our conversation, if you've got questions for Vlad or I, please feel free to go ahead and drop those comments in the chat below.

We've got a couple of comments already. Some people saying, hi, we've got a couple of questions already in the chat from Miranda for you, Justin, and we'll go ahead and get to those as we have time. Yeah, as we have time as we get further into that, but without further ado, everyone officially welcome to manufacturing hub.

My name is Dave. This guy up here is Vlad. This is episode 153, and I want to welcome back to the show. Justin Dean, Justin, welcome back to manufacturing hub. Thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me. It's good.

Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us today, Justin. I think it's going to be a great conversation for multiple reasons, right?

So as Dave mentioned, you've been already on episode 35, which was almost two years ago, and I think over two years ago, But also because you and I and a couple of other people within the industry have also built out some technical solutions together. There is a video which I will link in the in the notes for anyone who's curious.

If you're in our space, I guess maybe we were ahead of our time or maybe we just didn't market ourselves as some other groups did. But anyways We pulled some data. We, manage some data across like different brokers, different PLCs. So it was certainly a interesting challenge, but Justin, could you give us a bit of a reintroduction?

It's been a while. How did you get into manufacturing? What have you been up to? What kind of activities, I know you've done a little bit of things outside of manufacturing and automation. Where has your career taken you?

Yeah. So you want to go back from the beginning or.

What have you studied, what, like what your educational path has been and how did you get into automation?

Yeah, I can start

there cause that's an interesting I guess story for the most part. Yeah, so I so growing up. Specifically high school. I was a I was just, I was a track and field sprinter. So my path to college had to be athletics. And so obviously with that, you have to have good academics and so on.

So I didn't know anything about what I wanted to do other than I needed to change the conditions in which I was growing up and right, but while like economic, and so in that situation. I went to school on a track scholarship. I started at the University of Baylor, and then was there a year there was like, some racial tension there.

I did my freshman year there, then transferred to the University of Tulsa, where I completed the rest of my undergraduate and at the time, I originally started in art. Because I was always good at, I could draw people like, real wells really good at art. And so people thought that was what I should study because I, like I said, I wasn't exposed to people different careers and stuff like that, because everything was about the struggle, so you weren't exposed to that stuff.

So it's different than probably kids today that are exposed to a lot of different stuff. At early ages, and stuff. So anyway, so I was taking a some sort of design class, like a computer aided design class, and it just happened that the guy. That was teaching the class taught it from his background was electronics.

And he was teaching that if I had to take this class, and so I took it 1 semester. And then by the end of the semester, and like I said, I didn't know anything about electrical other than you plug something in the wall, it turned on like that was pretty much the extent that I knew anything like that.

Wait, he was teaching an arts class or he was It was basically a,

it was basically like a computer aided design class. So he was teaching it to a variety of different students in a variety of different like disciplines, mostly engineering students. Were I think I was like, the only person that was coming from having a art degree, from that standpoint.

But he was teaching it from the electrical and electronic standpoint. And like I said, I didn't know anything about that, and so anyway, so I go through that semester and he's and at the end of it, he's he's you're starting to figure out this stuff. Yeah. And he said, I think you should switch your major.

And I was like why would I do that? What am I even going to study? He's you should go study electrical engineering. You should switch to electrical engineering from art. I was like, why? And he's you'll make more money. And I heard more money. I like switched the next semester.

And that's pretty much it. Everything's been everything, all things electrical engineering, from embedded systems to control systems to power systems and so on. So

that's interesting. It's just a small fraction, change the trajectory of your life where, today you could have been either, a starving artist or a very.

Yeah, I'd probably still be

working. Yeah, I'd probably still be working in like a grocery store or something, probably. However, but yeah, it was different. And then I pretty much, I started buying like any spare money I had, I was buying like, my bedroom looked like a lab because I had oscilloscopes and this and that, like I would find in different situations or.

That have different simulator equipment that was not all the way working. So I would get it and then I'd fix it, because by that point, I knew, how to fix things electrically and stuff like that. Yeah, that's how. I got really in the space as far as I get into control systems and automation and things like that.

That just happened through in my 1st job out of school where I worked, I went to work for a manufacturer. That was a manufacturer of downhole pumping systems. And because coming out of school, I actually thought I was going to be an electrical motor engineer. That was like the thing that I liked was motors for whatever reason.

And so I took these different internships in school that was mostly around like electrical motor design. So I w you know, so I worked jobs everywhere from like electrical motor mechanic, Up to more, up to more design stuff. That was how I got in that space. And so when I went to work for this manufacturer, they split because by, by that point, I had a fairly diverse small set of experience.

From doing like embedded type, design work to doing like motor design and stuff like that. So they had me split half my time was doing electrical motor engineering. And then the other side was doing like these. Test systems, which had a fair amount of automation, so you had data acquisition systems, you had programmable controllers and so on.

But these systems were basically to basically, validate the, whether it was pumps motors. Cable seals or like stuff like that, that they were selling before it went out the door and stuff like that. So I traveled the world pretty much, designing these and then implementing these and then going around also and calibrate these systems all over.

Probably like probably six of the seven continents, so

that's really cool. Yeah, I To be honest with you. It's interesting that you mentioned sort of design versus manufacturing. I think people who graduated with an electrical engineering degree don't always realize that manufacturing is a very How would I describe it?

I guess it's mostly Lego blocks, right? You don't necessarily design the system from an embedded standpoint and you don't necessarily perform that many calculations even except, certain, I want to say mechanical aspects, but it's more, you put things together. So even when I, Describe what I do to my electrical engineers who graduated with me, who are doing more system design.

They're, surprised to hear manufacturing is quite a bit different from that sense. But yeah, it makes sense. What you're saying?

Yeah, it just depends on in that particular situation, it was like I worked in a group that was more like, we were responsible for design and build of the equipment that goes into manufacturing plant.

If someone's assembling the pump, we were designing the actual, a machine that they were actually going to assemble the pump on, or if it was going to be like a shaft straightener, all of those little things. Our group was more less design and, like, all the pieces that was going to be in the manufacturing process.

And then, and that stuff was more like, I'd say, structural and mechanical. For the most part, I guess a little bit electrical, but for the most part, it's more of a manual situation because it's almost like an art form to a certain extent, at least at that time. It was like that. Then, like I said, the test systems was more fully automated culture because you're trying to keep the operator from having to be out there, expose the high pressures and stuff like that.

Even though it was a. Test system, you treated it like it was a facility because for example, we had a pump test system. And we had a clean water tanks and like dirty water tanks. We had filters. And so we had things that we, so it's almost like you're in a miniature facility to a certain extent.

And so you're replicating those things and installing them, like, all over the world. So you're doing the engineering and design and then obviously. There's software that has to interact, with the system to do the code. We were more or less doing using a PLC for a safety sort of things, protection of, from a safety because at that time, they didn't trust a PLC could do that, like high speed data acquisition.

So for whatever reason in that situation, so they actually had a separate data acquisition system. That would tie into the computer. And then we had written like custom software, say in visual basic or C plus to actually interact. And actually, so the computer was the brains of that operation.

And then later on Smith, another engineer who were, he was, I guess a little bit older, I guess than me, but he came from the steel industry where everything was like all PLC based and stuff like that. And we went down this path of proving that we could do everything in a PLC that they could do in a dead acquisition, even if it was like a national instruments version, or if it was like, say, Monica on or wherever situation is, and the reason was, is because all this stuff is it's a high precision, right?

Because you're having to make sure, because they also use these test systems when they are going. Pulling a pump out a well to make sure what's actually wrong with the pump. So we would know if it had spinning diffusers or it had high horsepower because of like the bar, bearings or whatever situations because these pumps were like a multi road a multi-stage pump.

So these can be anywhere from five stages to like 250 stage pumps. So it looks like a long piece of pipe. So going to a motor conference or something like that is strange because You speak to other motor engineers and they're like, yeah, I got this like 2500 horsepower motor that you can walk through.

Right? And then I'm explaining why I have a 2500 horsepower motor. That's this big around, and stuff like that, but it's a multi rotor motor, and so those things. Yeah, it was, so that's how the, the career path started. I was exposed to a lot of different stuff.

Cause I didn't know no different, I didn't know, like what, so I would, so they would sometimes not really design something, but by all the components and say, here, go design this and build this in Scotland and you've got 8 weeks or whatever. And so I had that sort of situations happened quite a bit, stuff.

Yeah, so a little bit of everything.

What was your trajectory like afterwards? I know that you've started your own company and ventured off into quite a bit. Yeah,

Yeah, so in that situation right out of the gate, they were trying to get me to go back to school for a master's in business.

And because what they were trying to do is get people on this path to go into management. And I was like, I don't want anything to do with management. I just won't be, I won't be an engineer. I like to do technical stuff. So that was that. And so I avoided the whole that sort of thing.

So about a fair amount of time into, working that situation. Group of people, obviously, they were wanting to buy The company from the previous, or from whoever was, the company that had owned it. And then because I had, pretty much had this diverse skill set, they wanted me to come in and be a part of their, efforts and not understanding that during that process, you're getting into the business side, but I don't know I'm in the business side because I'm still focused on.

The technical aspects. So they're basically having these efforts where it's the by this company and then to flip it, sell it to someone else and just like in so rinse and repeat. And and that was the idea from that standpoint, but in my mind. Because coming from the childhood, the environment I grew up in where I didn't really see professionals, and I'm, for the most part, is that I'm thinking, oh I still need a job, even though you have this other situation that you probably should be focused on, but I don't know that at the time, I don't know that for proper 13 years, and then finally, decided to start, my own company myself.

Sohoma,

Dave, what are your thoughts? I know that you've certainly spoken to Justin as well many times.

Absolutely. Now, Justin, as I've said in the past, I think that the background is really interesting and I'm excited to go dig a bit more into kind of your experience on the business side with Sohoma and balancing the Managing side the, yeah, the managing business side versus the technical side, but we got a chance to dig a bit on your very technical motor background, which is super different than what we would normally discuss here on manufacturing hub and different than where the conversation is going to lead.

So I want to make sure to be able to go ask the question of, are there any interesting takeaways or learnings that you had starting your career on that technical side that you. Use for more automation for more controls for what you're doing Now, are there any kind of interesting takeaways that you draw back on the hey I did this in the past and it's a really good example of kind of opportunities, for future use or opportunities more on the automation side

Yeah, so going back to The first position out of college was specific, not so much on the motor side, but on the test system side.

And that side is that we had a group of mostly we have 3 electrical engineers, a few mechanical and a couple that were non degree that had just been there for 30, 40 years or something that had worked, just worked her way up and stuff. And so what usually was a situation if there was ever a problem.

At least in my situation, they were always want to send an electrical engineer to, to look at the problem, even if the problem is like a mechanical. I can like the 1st I guess it was 1 example of that is I had got. Ask to help someone troubleshoot a valve problem, right? Okay. Problem was, is that okay, so I'm focused on the control of the valve because it's like stepper motor controlled through the control system and so on.

I'm focused on the actuator side of the situation ended up being like, I had to walk the guy through how to rebuild the guts of the motor while that's the of the valve.

Yeah,

and so that was, like, the, and at that time, I had not done that myself. From that point on, everything was around okay, I have to learn all these others.

So disciplines. That are around this whole solution, right? So I have to have some understanding of mechanical. I have to have some understanding of obviously the electrical, the software, the actual, the way the controls should work actually fluid dynamics, because obviously in our situation, you're using water, but there's other situations where you might be using, actually, like some form of oil, because it's to do more of a R and D style of tests and stuff. So you have to end up, so knowing how pressure systems work and like, all sorts of other things. When you're getting involved in like these automated test systems, especially when they're sitting you somewhere that's, far away, and you're the only individual that is expected to resolve whoever the situation is, or get the systems online and in those situations, causing a lot of instances, it would be me going with another person.

And then we would secure local resources to do welding. But because I started, I did some welding in high school, so I would have to do, I had to do some welding on site, in the middle of Yemen or something, and so it was, so you got to get exposed to a lot of Like different disciplines and things of that nature.

So on that side, that is going to help you in the future. And at the time I had a person in that company that was on the it side and they're like, Oh, with your background, you need to go through all the Microsoft certifications. Because in the future, and so this is like in 2000, 2001, so it's I like in the future, those worlds are going to come are going to merge together.

Now, I didn't know whether she knew what she was talking about or not, but I did. So I went through the whole MCSE, MCSD, all those sort of surfing cases from Microsoft standpoint. And then obviously. I left that industry and then that's when I went to work at NASA and then that's where all those disciplines actually become more amplified because everything's like facilities and stuff like that, even though I'm dealing with chambers and flight hardware and stuff like that.

That's where I think where it was that actually helped being exposed to all sorts of different things and not. Knowing what not to turn down as far as like opportunities and stuff like that. So

sorry to interrupt Justin, what were the Microsoft certifications? I'm assuming those were not cloud at the time.

What were the certifications for? So there was a

Microsoft certified systems engineers. That's more since the, like the systems administration of the home or Microsoft umbrella, then. There was the Microsoft certified solutions developer. So that's more like a software developer. Those were like the main 2.

and so now I got the ones around dot net and stuff like that. But, yeah, that was because at that time we were having to write like, a lot of our own. Software for own stuff. So we weren't using like SCADA systems. So we weren't, using like Wonderware or using, some other platform I didn't really do that until I got to work at NASA when they asked me what SCADA platforms have you worked with?

I don't know, like we built our own. And so they're like if you built your own you could probably like figure out like Iconics or figure out like a Wonderware or whatever. And so at that time, I didn't know, I didn't know, Wonderware. Or Iconics from like a ham sandwich. That was but then oh this is I said a whole lot simpler than then, having to start from scratch, from, having to build the whole framework and.

And all of that.

Sorry, go ahead.

No, interesting. I think all that's super interesting, Justin. I think last time we had you on an episode 35, we dug even deeper into the background and we could absolutely talk for three or four more hours about that. But I want to go jump us forward a little bit right before we ask those last questions.

You had talked about how you did a bunch of working jobs will also build. Building businesses. And it wasn't until 13 years later, which brings us to about Sohoma that you took a step back from the technical and more into the business side can you explain a little bit more on maybe what was happening or how you made the decision and take us forward through that.

So we can talk a little bit more about the engineering, the business, and then the balance that you're in now,

please. Yeah so just prior to that, I had been more like a senior engineer for an integrator and slash borderline project manager, I guess you would say. And I was getting exposed.

So I worked on a big project in Nigeria or it was for a pipeline. And so when we would be waiting on the information, I'm trying to help, one of the owners, because he brought me in just help him in his situation. So he was in charge of sales. I didn't know anything about sales. And but I knew, I knew even at that time that, that there's a way to leverage like LinkedIn.

At least for reaching out and so on whatever, from that standpoint. So that he taught me how to, I guess the sales like process, how to do proposals, how to do estimates, like all of that sort of side. And then the interaction was like, more like a natural thing of just going in there speaking.

Okay, this is what we can do and this is what your problem is and how to solve the problem from that standpoint. So I wasn't like a salesperson. It's more here's what your problem is. Here's how I recommend here's how we would solve it. And all that sort of stuff. So I got exposure to that like situation from that standpoint.

And so then I had went to work for, back into that pumping industry where a company basically had a pump company and they had a, had an oil field automation company and they merged the companies together. And so I came in. After they'd had some like situations occur and I came in and I was like their director of like engineering and technology.

And I more or less ran without knowing their automation business. I didn't have equity in the company or whatever. I was just, I was just an employee. But I basically, I ran that whole automation side because they're all funneled up through me at the end of the day, which was, everything well where we manufactured like the variable speed drives to the control systems to we actually did like circuit board repair for, I get legacy stuff and the whole gamut.

And we designed downhole sensors and all kinds of stuff. So I was in charge of that. So I was building a commercial saltwater disposal, and I'm probably eight or nine months in to build a net for a customer full for their customer. And this person tells me the owner of that company, cause he was he was.

Part of, five investors in this situation, I guess he came to me and said, you need to come work for me or you need to go start your own business because you're not being treated right in your own exit and this situation. So I, being the more tunnel vision, technical person I'm not worried about that right now.

I'm focused on your project. And so I didn't worry about it. Then the next year, which will be in 2013 is when I, because I was married at the time and we basically sat down and I started Sohoma and I knew, and so this is basically after having about 13 years experience. So once people knew that I was essentially went on my own, cause it wasn't like, I was just going to start a business and now be a business guy.

It was literally, it started out as I was going to. Do this business. And I was more or less going to do it from a, I'd be a consultant or whatever you want to call it from an integration standpoint, from a, I guess more what you would call a systems integrator. For that, for that, except for, because my skill set, I can do a lot of different things if those opportunities present themselves.

And and then my business took off pretty quick that 1st year and so I had to bring on a contractor to just focus on PLC logic. For 1 of the customers, because I had some pretty big customers at the judges out of the gate. And so then by the end of the 1st, years, when I hired my 1st employee, which was like a salesperson, and then shortly.

2, 3 weeks later, hired, 3 other people inside about 5 people going into the 1st quarter of the 2nd year. And and then, and in doing so even before hiring the 1st. Person, the business. And myself financially, we're ready to hire people, but structurally, it wasn't something that was even thought about.

Because it's just, I'm doing the work and then my, and my wife at the time is helping me, because she has the finance background and this and that. So we were handling it like anyone does when they have a really small business, because I wasn't thinking that I want this thing to be, massive aware and so it just those things happen.

Then we basically decided before we were going to hire our 1st employee, but okay, so we've worked in these different places. What do we want to see as benefits if we were going to create the perfect, business from the benefit standpoint, and that's was like our approach. Of course, she like vacation.

Or like holidays and stuff. So we had this crazy holiday schedule, which obviously didn't it does impact. The business at the end of the day, but also it helps. And then we were like we want to, as we discover insurance. Is also a problem when people go to work for someone.

So we were basically like we're going to pay the insurance premium for the person and their family, because if we ever get in a situation where it's a recruiting thing, as far as like a negotiating thing, then you have that. That also helps, obviously the employee and then but yeah, so we had a different approach to how to do business from that standpoint and then anything I've started since then.

Which has been a lot of, quite a few businesses like since then is that's been my approach is the same sort of structure of benefits and all that sort of stuff.

Interesting. I know Vlad isn't nearly as much of a fan of vacation as perhaps everyone else in this conversation.

Vlad, I know you are in the process of doing some of these thinking. What are your thoughts on this?

For one, I think it's again I've mentioned this to Dave after, the three of us chatted yesterday where, I'm in a very similar position today, which is, maybe going off on my own as a consultant integrator slash maybe educator as well based on my controls past.

Again, like I'm curious, maybe Justin, that first year, I think five employees is a. Is a very big number. I, how would I say it? I certainly would want things to maybe go slower and be a bit more confident in, the projects, but maybe any like tips on that side, because I know the integration space is not necessarily sporadic with work.

But sometimes you find a project that's six months, then you're looking for the next project. Then something else comes along. And I'm just curious, how did you manage to find, work that quickly for that many people and also to keep them fed, with billable hours on those projects?

Yeah. Like in that situation, it wasn't like I was setting out to like just hire a bunch of people, wherever it was a. It was a unique situation in that we out of the gate, like we had a customer or a potential customer, I'll say a potential customer that basically was, it started from the engineering firm and they say we have a customer starting up like a recycled gas plant or something and they need two weeks of like startup support, like PLC.

Like startup support. Okay. So give them, I had like rape sheets and all that like stuff. So give them all that stuff. They come back and they don't I guess like they just delay it. So it was like, okay, I keep moving on because the thing understanding is I had spent 13 years building up a network.

So everywhere I had every little project I had done, even in the companies that I had at that point context on six continents at that point, right over the 13 years and then interacting in the industry. And because the skill set in that industry that I was doing at the times was such a niche or I want to say, I guess a niche, but because most everyone has doing that stuff had all retired because there are older people at the time I'm coming into it.

So I'm now 13 years in. So once people start discoverers Oh he's got his thing. So I'll see if he can help me with this artificial lift project or this project over here. So it was more or less, I got, I didn't really have to market. Like my I didn't really have to really use LinkedIn, like an extensive amount or wherever, from that situation, because it was, I had the context.

That were just calling me, for whatever reasons they were somewhere small situations, wherever, but we had this 1 take 1 that start out was going to be a a 2 week startup situation and ended up the customer wanted to go direct still want to do this 2 week startup project, but nothing had been done.

No programming had been done. No they didn't have a cause and effect. They didn't have a control narrative for how the facility was going to operate. Even though they had this engineering firm, they had paid, couple 100Million dollars to build this facility. So out of the gate, it's no longer this 2 week support, like situation.

It's really designing the automation and control system size of this facility. Now, they say we need it in a month. Or two weeks or wherever, her timeline was, cause they're still trying to stick to a schedule, even though all these other things got skipped, right? And so from my perspective is this is realistically what has to take place before you start writing any code at the end of the day.

So anyway that project that was going to be a 2 week project turned into a 3 year project. Because we pretty much, I pretty much I work with them. I work with their processes, engineer for the 1st month where I literally just I did the cause and effect.

I did the control matter for the facility. And then they wanted it in a short amount of time, and they asked me how much it would be. And I said, you can just, I said, multiply it times 2 or whatever, and they were like, okay, but at the end of the day, it was, like, always changes because they didn't really plan this whole thing and then a lot of people probably understand.

Is automation is the last people to get called in on like a project like, okay, automation has to get up and running or like skater has to get up and running. When sometimes you forget all these little pieces that affect that side of the fence, so in that process, we started getting. Entrusted to doing like the instrument and like electrical stuff.

And then it was like now you are wanting us to purchase your computer equipment for like your facility and all of this stuff. So now as I hired these people, they were all a hundred percent billable, like the first day. And but yeah, so that was like.

So I built the sort of system through like projects even from, like the software tools you need is I funded the business, but as I'm building out, here's what software tools, like we need, I'm using projects to, to fund that like situation. Lemme ask you as a follow up, I may

as a follow up, Justin, right? I think. One, not necessarily concern I have but one question I have is, specializing versus being broad in terms of what kind of projects you take on. Did you have? I would assume you had those thoughts because, again, the automation stack is very, I want to say, wide and you can get projects from, like you mentioned, commissioning to troubleshooting and, PLC HMI development and SCADA, and yes, and I think each one of those layers is fairly different and I guess my question is, Did you set out with a specific set of where you wanted to be, or did you just take on whatever and maybe what your advice would be in hindsight for someone going off on their own today?

Yeah, I think going into it because I didn't really know what I was getting into. I just knew what my skill sets were. So for me, I probably don't recommend this for, anyone else, but I was looking at my skill sets. What, so the business was built around my skill, right? All the things that I knew, right?

So all of those things became like services, right? At that point that the business can do and so on. And so that was the approach that I had taken at the time, I think now someone starting a business for example, I have people ask me hey, I want to start a tech company and it's what do, about, you And they don't know anything about tech, but it's this cool thing or wherever it is.

And so I tell people's you should really find out what you can do with the least amount of effort and that's what you build a business around. So if you're good at automation and it comes easy to you and you can solve problems, obviously there's going to be challenges and stuff like that, but that's what's, do you understand that?

Like the back of your hand. So that's what you would build a business around. Not something you really don't know anything about if you don't have the other people to support you, around you in that like situation, and that's where I built it off the skillsets I had now.

Other people coming into it had certain skillsets. So as I grew my team, Obviously the focus comes on, here's what their strengths are. And then I'm also, as the owner trying to find their weaknesses, I'm trying to find out, does the guy not know my bus? If you don't know my bus, I need to help him understand it before the customer figures out that he doesn't know it.

So I'm trying to find everyone's, weaknesses. So that I can convert that and expose all their strengths to the customer at the end of the day. There was a lot of that, happening from that, like standpoint, now I've got involved in businesses since then that was in things like didn't necessarily know, like a hundred percent, whatever.

But I had people around me at this point that, like help that like situation.

Dave, no, interesting. I think that's interesting. Can you talk us through maybe the balance that you're trying to find now between running a business and growing a business and all the technical work that you have historically done?

And I know you still do some of I'd imagine. And it's a debate that Vlad and I have had back and forth on this show and otherwise that, Okay. It's difficult, right? Like it's difficult to say I'm the engineer. I'm going to do the engineering work versus I am running a business. Maybe I shouldn't go do the engineering work and go find someone else or have one of my people do it.

So can you tell us a little bit about how you're trying to balance that?

Yeah. So like in. So home and now, like I have restructured things in the last, like several years. And so now from a, so homeless standpoint, I actually have but I have a person that's I buy other people that actually run that business.

Wherever. So those, so there's a president that runs, it's a home and so I be being an engineer, very technical person. It's it's difficult to remove yourself from Wanting to not do technical stuff. So I find myself, someone calls me like, Hey we got such and such thing getting involved in those things.

Like I'm, I feel like I always want to do something technical. It just keeps, that sort of thing going. Why at the same time I have these businesses, but I've since then structured these businesses that were at, one point I was involved in. All these things, right? And so I guess running these businesses because they got started out of services that kind of stepped outside the bounds of Sohoma, so to speak.

And so I started isolating the focus of Sohoma and these other ones where basically once enough of the services were We're dominating us a certain thing. I put those in a different business because they're different focus. So if it was engineering and construction and that sort of like stuff, it's hard to market that into home because the homeless.

Sounds like a systems integrator, so I'm a control where and so I started to split those things out and build those businesses, theirself into separate, like situations. And so then now they have people that run those things, and then now they're all part of the holding company, which is more or less a private equity company at this point.

And so then my main focus was, in growing that, but at the same time, I'm still connected to the technical side and that's where, that's what I like to do. And I didn't feel like engineers do make. Can make really good business people, depending on what you're trying to do as a business, because I have well even in the private equity world, I have seen in a few indices where the guys leading those companies are, like, process engineers, chemical engineers, stuff like that.

I think. There is now they got people around them, just I do whatever, but that, that's what they do. That's their thing. But I think for the most part, it just depends. Some people want to move straight towards the business side because they wanted to do a transition from the technical side to the business side.

If you look like someone like Elon Musk. Like he, he's the head of a company, but where he spends most of his time is doing engineering stuff and manufacturing stuff. So because that's where he sees his value. I feel like that's how he sees it. I don't know if that is or not, but that's what it looks like anyway, because that's why they do what they do.

From that, like standpoint, and that's why, I guess most folks think that he knows the most about manufacturing of anyone, probably on the planet. Just because of, I'm sure how involved he is in that and that side of that business more so that he cares more about that than he does about being the CEO or whatever,

Justin, if I can I don't want to assume that everyone who's listening or watching us understands private equity and I've, I've had some, Conversations recently, where I guess I understand a little bit better, but maybe to ask you and maybe to also bring us back to automation, what do the, what does it actually look like?

And maybe what kind of opportunities are there for engineers, either, before a deal is concluded or maybe coming in after the deal? Could you maybe explain that a little bit for someone who, again, may not have that knowledge and or background?

Yeah so from my A private equity perspective of what it would be well at least in our situation is we're investing in a company, not like a company on the stock market because we like stay away from that sort of stuff.

So we're investing X amount into a business and we're following them on a journey. Because we're trying to help them grow their business, in a certain sector. So say it's manufacturing, say, it's in health care or medical or technology, wherever the case may be that's. That's so we take a piece of the company.

So we're more so historically like people get a wrap for like private equity is looking at like they want to get in and basically they're going to it's a short term situation. So they're going to invest and then there's always an exit. And that's true in a lot of like situations is that every investment someone goes into, you also should have an exit plan on how you're going to get out of the thing or wherever it is.

In our situation, we're trying to have also, because I have the cause of how it all came about. I got surrounded by people a lot smarter than myself in that world. And so we're created this if we invest in That's coming. They have a mentorship process that they are programmed that they are going to go through.

So what we're trying to do is stay, with them to ensure that any amount of money that's invested is not this lost. Calls and then they, so you really, so you really don't want any losses. If we're gonna lose, you're gonna lose together and you're gonna figure out how do you get outta that like situation.

So we're more into these things for the long term, like situations or whatever. And that's at least in that like situation, if you have other companies that obviously are more like asset managers where they're managing assets and stuff like that's not what we do. From that like standpoint.

So we're not like a BlackRock or a Blackstone where they're basically trying to manage assets and get large positions and publicly traded companies. From that like standpoint, I'm not really, that's not really a concern in that like situation. So it's more or less not really getting involved in so much necessary.

Startups unless they're, looked at in a certain, manner cause there are like, people that will say I have the startup, because there's certain situations that the, depending on the business, it's not a, it's not a investable business. Yet until it's gets proven or wherever it is.

And so sometimes people have a threshold on here's what we want to see as far as as far as where someone has to be at a minimum before you start to invest in that company or wherever it is, some people actually do go after the startups. And so forth, especially in the tech, space, that a lot, because they're coming in with like high valuations, because even though they haven't made any money yet because of either the product or the solution that they have that they've marketed out, when you say I've seen that in manufacturing, I've seen that one to manufacturing space where a company like Arkansas was valued at like over a billion dollars, and they needed help to build a manufacturing facility, because they actually had made no money yet, but their valuation because of what they were going to do was, it put them at I think, somewhere close to a billion dollar, valuation.

I think that's pretty rare to see in manufacturing because of the, physical, like it's, I think software is how to say it. Not necessarily easier to spread, but I guess there's lower amounts of investment and usually time. For that software to spread versus, manufacturing, you're talking about bringing in very expensive assets.

So you need cashflow. You need to make sure that some time is spent. Yeah. So that's why there's no big valuations. But I guess when you say, help those companies and maybe mentor them, I'm assuming you're talking more like on the technical side, right? Versus

No, it's the business. It's all the way through the business.

They're looking at the entire operation of the business, not just on the technical side, because at that point, you move beyond the technical side. Now, at the same time, when you do see technical issues, you now have. This bank of other companies that also can help in solving and helping with those problems and that like situation because now you have a network of companies that sort of can, be a value in those situations, if that is, is something that would occur.

Interesting. I, and this is like a very slight tangent before I pass the metaphorical mic to Dave. I remember looking at a facility or I guess a business to acquire a couple of years ago, and they had more of a sales and marketing challenge versus. Automation, which is where I wanted to come in at as identifying ways to automate the process and gain a multiple out of that.

And we, I guess the team at the time decided to pass because none of us really knew someone who's strong on sales and marketing. And yeah, I guess like I. Like I've always considered that like my strength would be analyzing the automation side, the tech side, and being able to provide more automation than they currently have, which would ultimately within a few years, to your point.

Allow an exit of, several multiples by automating the process. But yeah, it's interesting that you, look at a variety of things and are comfortable playing in that space across the whole business.

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it is like in the, in, in the, I guess the next space is like where you're located.

So we're Operating in like New York City. So with that, you won't be in the financial place. That's where, that's where to be or wherever it is. And so then but we, because of my kind of. Going to different places and being like, I want to live here more. A lot of stuff, a lot of opportunities occur in like Europe and other parts of the world, you have lots of, and then I, and especially if you're getting it in rooms and you're networking with people in these different, just parts of the world.

Also open up those other opportunities and for expanding into those, areas. But obviously if someone just wants to focus at a certain thing by what you don't what I haven't really seen is companies that focus on just I think it would be interesting if a company.

If there was, like, something like private equity or whatever, that would focus on strictly, industrial automation. Or wherever, I think that would be interesting. We've done some stuff, from that like standpoint, but that's not like strictly the focus or whatever it is because it really started out in doing like real estate.

And then that's when, like I said, I guess when we spoke before is like packaging everything that was under my umbrella, under this thing. And that was how it started and then. This going and getting involved in other companies, that's something that happened because of the people that I was around and stuff like that.

It's just it takes a lot of people to do that side of things or whatever where you were asking before where can an engineer get involved in, these other into I do see value in, engineers going to work in private equity companies whether that's, as an analyst, or what we did is we have what they call it's like a new thing, but it's called a legal engineering department.

And so you're basically designing these. Now, that's more for internal use the, these systems that hands your sort of, business internally, so to speak, but I think when you're looking at other companies to invest in, I think having, engineers with different backgrounds and disciplines can be valuable when you're doing when you're in the vetting process of those businesses for example, if you're going to invest in as a systems integrator, you probably want it probably would be good for you to have someone.

Or group of people that were really well, a first in systems integration. So they would know and be able to offer suggestions also. And because they would have a proven technical track record. I'm like no, this company is going nowhere, like wherever because they're doing such and such thing or where, so I think, or they're headed in, this whole industry 4.

0, say, or 5. 0, or 9. 0, or whatever, at that time, so we're all just images in the sky or something or wherever at that point but yeah, I think, there is value in that. Like stuff because I think to go because some deals take a fairly long time to see through.

And especially the more due diligence, these investment companies are going to do. So I do see value in that for sure.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Dave, what are your thoughts?

I think it's interesting. I think that there are certainly lots of opportunities as we look into the future.

Let me ask you, Justin, one other topic that we promised to cover, but have not got here yet. Is artificial intelligence in manufacturing. Can you maybe give us your quick five minute thoughts on that? Yeah. Can you give us maybe your quick five minutes thoughts on that? And then we will go ahead and and ask you the final questions we give everyone.

Yeah. It's artificial intelligence and manufacturing. I think. You're starting to see, I guess it really depends on what's happens if you're down on the factory floor. Or you're well, we're not just on fact 4, but from the fact before through the enterprise. I do think how you're how you're integrating that into your.

Kind of your data infrastructure. So it's, it just, it depends on what, every manufacturer should be trying to, because they're trying to produce a widget, right? So they should be trying to predict what they've done. And here's where I'm at. This is what I've done in the past. Okay.

This is what I predict for tomorrow or the next day or whatever. So yeah, you need, I think that at a very basic level. I don't want to say basic level, but I guess at a necessity level is that's where you definitely would have. You should have artificial intelligence and machine learning and that sort of thing from that's standpoint, but then you have the whole, like, how does employees interact with.

Artificial intelligence, because now it's okay if we're predicting what we're producing, and we will, and we know the past, and we know it, and we know that. Present is what was, what's like the workforce going to look like? Cause now you're affecting like how they currently operate.

Cause now you don't have people pushing physical pieces of paper around your organization every eight hours or wherever it is, because you've now have some level of insight into your entire operation. So now it's okay, also, how do you take. A employee and also give them superhuman tools to help them with their job instead of trying to eliminate them.

Like I had someone asked me when chat GPT came out or wherever it is, it's would you like, if you have an assistant would you get rid of your secretary or assistant or wherever it is because now you have chat GPT and it's if you were smart, you'd put chat GPT in their hands.

Because now they're more efficient and in that like situation, so they can do more in the amount of time they're going to work instead of now. There are people that are starting businesses because of chat. They have made sense of the idea that they may not have to ever hire employees. Cause now everyone's a chat robot or whatever, or some kind of assistant to them to, automate these certain things that may work for some situations.

I think what I do, like you gotta have people,

absolutely. I agree with that. And I think it'll certainly be interesting to see where we move and how we're able to go leverage these technologies. Justin, this has been super awesome. I want to go ask you all of the questions. The final questions that we ask all of our guests in this super interesting conversation we've had so far.

The first one is one that I always like to have fun with. It's predict the future. Maybe predict the future when it comes to engineers and more technical people starting, and I want to say running successful businesses. Do you think that we'll see the trend of, Technical folks moving into the business side and being successful in growing their organizations, or do you think we'll see some people maybe start to grow some of these organizations and decide that they just want to be more on the technical side and less on the business side?

I think you'll see like more and more people going down the business route. Because I think you're going to have this same. So something we didn't touch on before is you'll have more business minded engineers. 1 of the things I feel like that was advantage for me is that and even if I help someone right now, it was like, someone contacted me and said, hey.

Can you help me do this skater thing or whatever it is? Yeah. I'm helping them. I'm looking at, I'm always thinking and things from a business standpoint, so that's where I can see where you have more people like that, like in the future or, and you may have some now, but I'm saying it's just going to get more more, it'll be more of a focus, I think, in that like situation.

For the most part,

absolutely. I appreciate that. And I

think

it'll be interesting. I'm sorry,

at the same time, you also have very strong technical people that just need to be in the right vehicle. That's already moving. So

absolutely no, I think it'll be interesting to, to watch how people go down that path go down that path moving forward.

So thank you for that, Justin. The next question I want to ask is probably a really good follow up to that is, is some career advice. So if we have some of the more technically minded people looking to move into a more business or starting their own business situation, what's the best advice you have for those folks?

That are looking to actually start their business or from a technical. Yeah, maybe

even find that moving vehicle that you've mentioned,

yeah, it's open. Yeah, so it's like I would say If you're looking at Moving into a different direction. So say you think you want to have your own business Is that or you want to find the right opportunity as I say, you know a moving vehicle Is identify someone one That you can solve their problem that they can't already solve.

And I think you doing that, then eventually it's just if like someone is has a YouTube channel and they're making content and someone is wanting to work for them because they see it's already a moving thing. And then, oh, I want to work for that individual because I think they're awesome or wherever is they should take 1 of the videos and they should basically be trying to add value to them and do it for free and then eventually that person.

The, that's their best way into that conversation is there's like this saying is if you can't get a seat at the table, serve water, like situation and so that's just like that. But as far as someone actually, as far as actually things when someone's 1 theater, either elevate their career or start a business. I think the starting the, I think the starting the business thing should be based on what they do the easiest other than sleep. No, you can start business by sleeping, I guess people, I guess that would be all right.

But I think the thing that you are the best at that, you, that because the, Things you're the best at require the least amount of your energy to really do them. And that's where people should really be. If you're going to start a business, that's where you would do that, from that standpoint.

And unless you get, around people that got complementary skill sets that you guys can come together and do, something together. If you're doing it by yourself yeah, I'll be, that's The approach that I think, at least starting now,

definitely something to think about

and always learning is always trying to learn something like all the time.

That's what everybody probably knows is in this sort of industry at least in the industrial automation industry is like you almost have to always be learning something. You may not learn something new every day, but you're learning something on a consistent basis that's helping you.

It may not help you right now, but it's going to help you at some point. It's just like stuff I learned 15 years ago may not have been valuable until 2 years ago. wherever, like you never know.

Interesting. No, I appreciate that, Justin. Next question we want to ask you is for a book or content recommendation.

We want to leave it open. What are you reading? What are you interested in? Where do you find good reading material and or content? Can you give us one of your favorites, please?

As far as we're reading our books I really only read books that's I find it's going to be helpful.

Like actually, I'm trying to figure something out or learn something wherever. Now there is one book it's like a very old book, but it's think and grow rich, and it's like, you can read the book like a hundred times and you get a hundred different things out of it. Like every time it's like something that it's I don't know.

It's it's hard to explain, but that's what happens. I guess I can read it now and get something out of it that I didn't get like before like two other times that maybe I I get a red, so I find that kind of an interesting thing because it's it's one book, but I think you get a lot of different stuff out of that that's one, I like to say I don't really read to, to learn stuff.

I don't read like novels and just before like entertainment and like stuff like that. That's what I would say.

Absolutely. No, I appreciate that, Justin. And the last question we have for you today is who should reach out? How can our listeners help you? Are you looking to connect with people?

Are you looking for job opportunities? Are you looking to hire your open your open opportunity to go ask our listeners how they can help you?

Yeah, anyone that yeah, anyone that, where we can, I can offer any kind of value, whether that's personally, or if it's, so someone's got business, that they're seeking capital on, I can help, and that capacity or my group, the Dean and Dean capital group and and yeah, other than that as far as and then also if someone's needing technical units, it's something they can't figure out whatever. It's I'm here to help whoever favorite, solve whatever problems and stuff like that, and they can reach out to me just on LinkedIn. Real simple. Justin Dean.

So

absolutely no. Thank you so much for this, Justin, as always an amazing conversation. I hope our listeners enjoyed it half as much as I've enjoyed it. If you guys are listening and you haven't connected with Justin for any and all of his awesome offers right there, please make sure you're, you connect and and chat with Justin.

If you guys are listening in some other form, we will go ahead and have that information in show notes. If you are not already following manufacturing hub, Vlad and myself. Please go ahead and do if you guys are watching live, we've got an awesome conversation talking about ICS cybersecurity next week.

Beyond that again, thank you everyone for joining. If you made it this far on podcast form, please go do those things like rate us five stars and follow along and all of those other awesome things that when I ask you guys do it and we miraculously have more folks who always are finding the podcast again.

Thank you, Justin. Thank you everyone for being here until next week. We'll