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Dan Ryan: an award-winning architect, developer and hospitality designer, owner of KK, a de Pocono, modern and Westmore hotels and restaurants, which includes print kitchen.
Also a passionate musician, a dear friend, and an inspiration to me as a fellow entrepreneur. Craig. Collagian welcome, Craig.
Kraig Kalashian: Wow. Thanks Dan. That's a very nice intro.
Dan Ryan: Well, it's a very true, uh, intro because one of the things that I've always loved about you and continue to love [00:01:00] about you, um, is you're a true entrepreneur.
You're always doing so many things. Um, from opening a restaurant in the, in the midst of a pandemic to having a really successful, uh, hotel design company, also doing real estate development and. You know, you're just, you're in everything. And then just all how your outlook on life in general is just, I don't know.
I just love sharing those ideas with you. So like have you always had that many hats on,
Kraig Kalashian: um, yeah. Well, thanks for that. And you know, obviously I feel you're obviously a kindred spirit and a lot of those things, and we've talked about that at length, but, um, I think for me from a very early age, I had more of an academic approach to everything.
I spent a lot of time reading when I was a kid and definitely pursued things more from the philosophical side. And so for me, you know, people use the word entrepreneurship, but for me, entrepreneurship is not necessarily about, you know, [00:02:00] how to make money, but more about how to solve problems. And that's why I ultimately got into architecture because I view architecture as a profession where, you know, it's really about solving problems and being given a problem and figuring out how to spatially resolve.
Um, and so I've always enjoyed problem solving. And so my, you know, my, my big problem or challenge I should say is when I see something that's not right. I always feel like, yeah, I could, I could do that. I could do that better. You know, and it's, it's a bit of a curse actually, because you know, the town that I live in, for example, you know, it doesn't really have great food.
And so everybody was talking about, you know, I wish somebody would open a restaurant that does it, you know? And so we were like, I could do that, you know? And so I get in trouble a lot by just wanting to be a problem solver and fix things. And it's not, it's not usually about figuring out how to make money, even though, you know, that's a part of it.
It's usually about thinking you could do something better and wanting to show people lead by example and do something better that way. But I always, I always think about it a lot before I [00:03:00] do anything, which is I think a good thing and a bad thing. A lot of people kind of act and just know what to do.
And I always have to like spend more time thinking about it. So I would say it comes from a, from an academic place, but also from this like curse of wanting to solve problems, all this.
Dan Ryan: And I want to get into that a little bit because you know, one of the challenges that we all have in this new world and the old world, and just life in general is focus.
And we're all given the same amount of time and a 24 hour period. But one of the things I like to do at the beginning of this is, you know, the, the, obviously the title is defining hospitality. And I want to use this as a thread, um, and, uh, a tool to kind of dig into the conversation, but given all the different initiatives that you have, how do you define hospitality?
Kraig Kalashian: I mean, for me, hospitality is a feeling, it's the feeling like somebody is taking care of you. It's the feeling like somebody sees who you are and what you [00:04:00] need and gives you that. for me, the best way that I could define it is just this feeling I used to get from going to my grandmother's house when I was.
a kid So if you asked me like what's hospitality, I would say it's, it's the way my grandmother treated me. Like when I was, a kid, like when I would go to my grandmother's house, like she would just basically give me a hundred percent of her time and attention while I was there. She would always have things that were special for me.
It was really like this feeling of being treated, in the best way, like you would imagine royalty gets treated and somebody stopping, whatever they're doing to just make you feel at home or accommodated or, just pay attention to what you need. And so I think that for me, the idea of hospitality is just thinking about other people and how to, make them feel seen and how to make them feel taken care of.
And, you know, that's ultimately what most of these things that I do are about whether it's, you know, writing music or serving food or [00:05:00] designing, you know, a guest room it's really about thinking about those things. You know, make somebody's day a little better or make them not have to worry about something.
Um, and so that's kind of where it all stems from.
Dan Ryan: And I remember in one of our conversations, you were designing a menu for, I don't remember if it was, um, the restaurant or one of your properties, but it had to do with you. There were these great recipes. I don't remember exactly what they were, but I remember salivating as you were telling me, and you said something that maybe it's making me think about it when you talk about your grandmother, but the most important you said the most important ingredient is time.
Kraig Kalashian: Yeah. Yeah. Time is always an ingredient. And, uh, I think today, like a lot of, uh, a lot of what I see happening is people tend to try and make things sound complex or fancy. And there seems like there's a whole. A million ways to describe every simple little thing. Um, but really the most valuable thing that you can [00:06:00] give anybody is your time, right?
Because that's, we don't, we don't know how much we have and it's limited resource, right? It's not unlimited. So, um, in cooking, you know, I think it was Dominique and sell the guy who invented the cronut, who has that coin. That is his phrase, time as an ingredient, but it really is true. You know, the best things I find in life are not the instant gratification.
Things are the things that often take a while to materialize or come to be. And I can tell you when I've, whenever I've done things personally, uh, whether it's opening a restaurant or working on a hotel deal or building a house, it's never one of these, like things that happens quickly, it happens over years and years.
And so like when we build houses in the post. A normal home developer would build a house in six months. It takes us like two and a half years because we fuss over every little detail. And again, we're not doing it as, um, the prime motivation is financial. We're doing it as like, this is a reflection of who we are and what we believe.
And so it's always challenging when we work for [00:07:00] clients who are, you know, saying like, oh, this has to be done in six months or the, you know, and as you pointed out, the, you know, the current climate and in the world is such that, you know, we're all at the mercy of a lot of different factors. So, but again, that's, that goes back to problem solving.
But I do believe that, you know, taking the appropriate amount of time to either solve a problem, or even just think about another little detail that somebody else might overlook is a differentiating factor in kind of how we approach things. And I'll give you a quick example. Um, you know, I recently stayed at a hotel where, you know, it wasn't easily apparent, like how to change the shower from like the tub setting to the shower set.
You know, it was like some fancy faucet where there wasn't like a button that you push that diverts the water. And, you know, I'm like standing there, uh, you know, for a few minutes, like, how do you, how do you switch this, how you switch this? And so that, something little like that, that we think about how do we make it easy and legible for a guest to understand how to do that, or you know, how to, you know, how to, and that [00:08:00] would that something like that, if somebody is kind of on the edge, you can kind of ruin their day.
You know what I mean? Like they're in a rush and they're trying to take a shower and they can't figure out how to do it. So, but just taking the time to ideate through a problem and think about everything that could go wrong. Um, for me, that's essential to trying to do something well, When I was starting out, somebody once told me, like, if you don't have time to do it right the first time, where are you going to find the time to have to do it again when it's wrong?
And I've always remembered that because yeah, it might take a little longer to, you know, to kind of think about it and think through it and get it right. Or get the right product or get the right thing. But you never have to touch it again after that, because you know, it's correct. And it's, so it's the same in cooking or in anything else, if the foundation of what you're doing is well thought out and correct.
You never have to guess if the finished thing you know is correct because all of the foundational elements, so in cooking, let's say, you know, you have prep and then you have execution in a restaurant. So if you're using a sauce, [00:09:00] for example, that's been prepped by a prep cook in the finished dish. You know, if, if the sauce you're using has been made incorrectly to finish dishes, never going to be correct.
So it's absolutely essential that the. Or, you know, the base ingredient be done correctly. And so if you, if you spend the amount of time on those foundational elements, you know, then all of the, all the wine cook has to do or the, or the chef, or whatever has to do is just grab the sauce, heat it up and put it on the dish.
But if you have to taste it every time, because it's under salted or under seasoned, there it's missing ingredient or it's too much wine and it, or whatever, you know, it's really going to slow you up when you're trying to execute a lot of dinners at once. So, you know, I really do believe that time is an ingredient and in food, especially if you've eaten anything, that's just makes your heart sing.
It's definitely something that, you know, was cooked for a really long time. Or maybe it's a big dish that has to rise for so many hours. It's like, you can't, you can't make great bread in 20 minutes. You know, it's, it's a process and it uses nature too. And I, I do believe [00:10:00] nature, you know, shows us that, that like, you know, the leaves don't change overnight.
It takes months and months, you know? So all the, all the best things, the most beautiful things, they don't happen instantly. They take time. That is a big part of my philosophy about, you know, giving things to do. And, uh, and that includes like thinking about, you know, other people and, and how, you know, how are we going to service and accommodate those people in an environment that's gonna make them feel amazing and interesting discussion.
Dan Ryan: I want to get into the different types of people because, um, w we're going to do that in a second, but as you were talking about the, the, the, the tub to the shower, um, recently I was at, uh, the independent lodging Congress event in Brooklyn and David Rockwell was up there talking about guestrooms in particular and how they're such what's that, and robots and robots, but, well, the robot thing is a little freaky to me and I, I just, I haven't really gotten that all the way through my head yet, but on [00:11:00] the guestroom part, what was interesting, he said the guest room is like the ultimate laboratory.
To work through a lot of those issues, because if a guest can't figure out how to, like you said, turn on the shower or make the shower go to a tub and it's confusing, or he was using the example of just light switches, especially as rooms get so complicated, it's really important to make that work, but also in a way to, um, kind of figure it out for, I always say like the lowest common denominator, you just have to have someone who's not technically savvy that's going in there and how can everything just be intuitive to get it
Kraig Kalashian: to work?
Sure. And I think the key to that is communication because you know, the other thing that's never really factored in is that, you know, our world is always changing from a technological standpoint, from an ecological standpoint, you know, our resources are always changing. And so for example, take, you know, take climate setting, for example, you know, how cold a lot of, a lot of properties leave their rooms all at the [00:12:00] same temperature.
You walk in the room at 68 degrees. You know, in a warm climate and you walk in and you're freezing and you're like, why do they, you know, why do they have this temperature set to this? You know, all you really have to do, you know, when you book the hotel or when you check in or what have you is, you know, somebody just has to ask like, what's your preferred room setting and, you know, there's technology to accommodate that and say, okay, we can set the room to your preferred setting.
Um, and that's just a small example, you know, different people like different light preferences, different people have to, everybody has a different preference for everything. And that's one of the things that phones have proliferated is that if you, if I, if I look at your phone or you look at my phone, they're going to be set up completely differently.
What apps are on the home screen and where you have your buttons and the colors of your background, you know, and that's just a small example of how we all live our lives. We all have different preferences and we've proliferated those preferences. Um, and so really, I think hospitality is just about communicating or being able to communicate those preferences.
Um, You know, uh, and I, [00:13:00] and I always remember Danny Meyer, you know, his golden rule is not, you know, um, do unto others as you would have them do unto you it's do unto others as they would want done to them. So it's, it's not, if I like it, you'll like it. It's like, no, I have to ask you what you'll like and then give, and then try and give you that.
And I think that that's a really important element about just living today, because you can't make assumptions that if I like something you'll like something, or if I want it this way, you want it this way. Um, we've all gotten really good at identifying the things that we do like, and the things that we want, um, by our preferences.
And I know AI is a big, you know, that's a big driver in AI is like recording what everybody likes and recording what everybody buys and recording, and then showing you these other things that they think you'll like and buy. Um, but when it, when it comes to people like. We all have to get better at saying, I don't know what you like, so why don't you just tell me what you like or how do you like it like this?
Like, it's a good thing to ask questions and then I think [00:14:00] it's a good thing to say. I don't know. Um, you know, it ranges from a million topics, uh, you know, that we're dealing with in society today, but I think the key to it, especially when it comes to guestroom design, you know, a lot of times we're in a room with our client, who's the operator or the manager, and we're designing to their preferences, but I'm constantly trying to remind them, well, you're not the guest, you're not the guests, right?
You're the owner. And the, you know, you might be a, you know, a 58 year old person who only goes to these types of places, but your guest is going to be, you know, a 28 year old, you know, global traveler who, you know, might want to bring their dog with them or say, you know, these are, these are, there are so many different profiles of people that try.
You really can't make decisions in a vacuum of just who the client or owner likes. And so when I say to them, I said, you know, I understand you like that, but what it, but that's not who you were designing for you. You're not the guest and what is the ask and alike. And so a lot of times you have to think about that [00:15:00] as well.
Um, and be sensitive to that. And those are great discussions too, because some, there are some universal things like, yeah, we'd all love to find the lights switch quickly upon entry. Um, but also when it comes down to, you know, technology preferences or desk or no desk, or do we put tables and chairs, you know, those types of things, like we always want to be as accommodating as possible.
But, um, I heard someone say once, and I apologize, I don't remember, but if we try to design for everyone, we're designing for no one, you know what I mean? Which I correct.
Dan Ryan: And I think that's an important thing. So. Trying to make it work for everyone and designing for no one, but then, you know, that's on one side and then you have on the other side, it's this true listening of like, who is your target audience?
Right. And you've said over and over, I've heard you say the word differences. I've heard you say preferences. I've heard you say listening and just all these different factors. And how do you measure that? Which leads me into my next question, [00:16:00] which is so for all the different entrepreneurial endeavors you have from development to design to your restaurant, to everything that you're to your music, how do you listen to those different types of clients?
And they might not, they might not be clients in everyone. It could be a stakeholder or a shareholder. It could be your intended audience for your music, but how do you listen to those different types of audiences that you're,
Kraig Kalashian: that you're going to? Yeah. And it's a great question. The easiest one to answer probably is the music question.
A lot of times, You know, if I bump into somebody and I say, oh, how's it going? And they tell me a really incredible story about something that they've just been through. Maybe it's a relationship story, or maybe it's, you know, uh, some major life catastrophe, you know, whenever somebody has really moved, you know, to a super emotional place, like I almost can't help be, but move by that.
And so what I'll, I'll remember, you know, the, the story or the thing, and I will, [00:17:00] you know, kind of try to interpret it through my own filter. Um, and then kind of come out with something that, you know, tries to do justice to the original idea or the original story. I mean, you know, I, I have always felt like everybody's life could be a movie, you know, you just have to edit it the right way.
Right. So, um, so, you know, with music, for me, it's just about finding great stories and writing songs that I'm more of a, a story kind of songwriter, not so much like I'm melody kind of songwriter. I focus more on lyrics. But, um, but yeah, so with, with music, I find that it's really easy for me to convert some of these really great stories and into really great lyrics and songs.
Um, but with spaces, you know, I think I start to think about like, alright, well, if I'm thinking of a specific person, why are they coming to this place? Why are they coming to this market? Why are they, you know, why are they traveling in the first place? Is it families? Is it, you know, single travelers? Is it business travelers?
Is it social? Like you [00:18:00] start to create a profile of like, I almost want to create like one specific customer or client that I view the project through almost like their, their eyes or their lens. And I think empathy is a huge part of all of it. Being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. And imagine, well, what are they going to be feeling?
Where's the wow factor. And I, you know, and I think one of the real tricky spots of designing today is everybody seems to be designing for that Instagram moment. You know, that photograph, that they're going to post online, but not designing enough for the, the IRL, the in real life experience of like, well, what's it going to feel like, you know, standing on this floor or laying in this bed, what are you gonna be looking at?
Um, we had a really long conversation recently about the famous TV wall and a guest room. You know, when you're laying in bed, looking at that wall opposite the bed, that's like the most neglected wall in all of hotels, because there's usually a dresser, a TV, a desk, [00:19:00] and some artwork, and that's literally it.
And so the question is like, well, when we're laying in bed in this hotel that doesn't have super great views. Shouldn't that be the super great view, like instead of making the headboard wall, the accident law and the focal wall, like what about when you're laying in bed, which is what 95% of the people who use this room are gonna be doing.
How can we make this more interesting because this is what everybody's going. Yeah. It's great to take a picture of cool headboards and murals behind the law and all that, but ultimately, how's it going to feel, waking up and looking at, you know, a blank wall with a TV and a piece of art on it, you know, versus looking at something that has a huge flower arrangement, like on this big dresser, that's really gonna make you go, wow, that looks beautiful.
Dan Ryan: That's super interesting because oftentimes you think about you're designing the guestroom for that first 30 seconds or 15 seconds that someone walks into the room. Oftentimes they see that headboard wall. Um, but to think about it from the person lying down. And what they're [00:20:00] looking at, if that's where they're spending most of the time, it's kind of, it's challenging because I also feel like in what you were saying about designing to that specific customer or client, not actually the owner, right.
It gets a little bit scary because then you have to get so focused on who and really think about who and listening to who is going to be there. And in a way, by choosing by a hotel or a restaurant choosing the, who is going to walk in, you're also leaving out a lot of other people. So how do you reconcile that?
Well,
Kraig Kalashian: I think back to when, I don't know if you remember when w hotels first came out and they basically designed this super, you know, it kind of, re-imagined every aspect of the hotel experience from, you know, instead of doing this cookie cutter, You know, standards and this and that, it was really about designing what I would call like the place where like rock stars would stay.
You know what I mean? Something that was just like a little bit over the top and even the way the rooms were [00:21:00] named, you know, in the suites and all that sort of thing. It was, you know, it was thinking about it in a different way, but I think they were designing for a very young affluent hip crowd. And by virtue of the fact that it became so desirable for that crowd, you know, all the other people, the baby boomers in the vision, I was like, I want to, I want to stay there.
I want to feel like a rock star. I don't, you know, so I think when you just follow the basic laws of supply and demand, if you create something that's desirable, even for a niche group, the fact that that group will love it so much. We'll, you'll attract other people by just virtue of demand, you know, and we're not talking about hotels that have 400 rooms.
It's not like a Vegas situation where you have 2000 rooms in a hotel. Um, you know, I think the properties we're seeing, being worked on and developed, they're all smaller, they're all a hundred rooms. And even under, and the properties we're developing are like 30 rooms, because I think what we've realized is that there's way more [00:22:00] satisfaction as operators, as designers, as owners, and being able to put more detail and more time into fewer, you know, rooms or spaces, you know, quantity, quality over quantity.
Um, and there's more personal satisfaction from the connections you get with that guest. And so take a place like Blackberry farm, which I'm sure you're familiar with. And, uh, Tennessee, you know, that's widely considered the best resort hospitality experience you can have, and it's not big and you can't, it takes forever to get a reservation and it's super expensive.
And you know, you'll go on a hike with a Michelin star chef and they'll make you the most amazing meal over a campfire, but the level of care and consideration given to every detail. Yeah. It's not for everybody. Um, that's not everyone's dream vacation, but the fact that they do it so successfully and that there's so much thought and hospitality put into every detail, you know, makes it an experience that's attractive to almost everybody, even if people it's not accessible to [00:23:00] everybody.
And so me, I look at that and I say, that's amazing, but I think what I want to do, my version of that is maybe something that's similar but more accessible because I'm, I'm, I'm one of those people who grew up and, you know, working middle-class household where we never went on vacation, we never went into it.
It was, it was considered to be more of a luxury. And I think today travel and dining out, and those types of experiences are not meant to be luxuries. They're meant to be, you know, table stakes for just living now, you know, experiencing as much as possible. So I think to answer a question, if you just, if you design something really, really well and do it to the best of your ability, even if it's niche, because it's done so well, it will attract a following much wider than your target demographic.
Dan Ryan: Right. And okay. So when you're doing that hotel, you're also thinking about, it's almost like a field of dreams thing. Right? If you build it, they will come. Right. Exactly. So I hear you loud and clear on that. We all hear you loud and clear on that. Now going into the more granular, like, real-time you go to little prayer in [00:24:00] your restaurant, right?
It's not an, if you build it, they will come there. It's built. Yeah. Calming. How do you listen to those customers coming in?
Kraig Kalashian: Um, well, yeah, so Pran is, is, uh, is a weird little thing. It doesn't really make sense on paper. Like a lot of things I think that I do, but it was just the right thing at the right time and the right place.
And so we built a little 30 seat restaurant. Um, we don't have a liquor license. The idea was that we were going to be a scratch-made kitchen. So literally we make everything that we serve. So we make sauces, we make dressings, we make breads, we make biscuits, you know, and then the ingredients that we use are all.
I wouldn't say farm to table, because I think that's an overused descriptor, but you know, we have a, we have a butcher who's, who's kind of a friend of mine and he made, he, he he's a whole animal butcher who basically makes his name Sal, Sebastian. He's exactly French. And, um, he was, he's a [00:25:00] French chef who used to work for John George and he moved to the small town next to mine and opened up a really high-end nose to tail butcher shop.
And, uh, we're, we're literally the only restaurant who he services because he's small. And also the amount that we pay for me is like, no, no restaurant would be able to support it's it's incredibly expensive. But, um, but the burgers that we saw, which are his grass fed burgers, and he makes like custom chicken burgers for us, uh, with, uh, with a special blend of, you know, different fats and herbs and different things.
Um, but he, uh, he knows food inside and out. And so the fact that we have him as a part of. Um, at our restaurant and, you know, our burgers cost $20, which for New York city doesn't seem crazy. But for the fact that we're two blocks from a Wendy's that sells burgers for two bucks, it's, you know, it's, it's a bit strange for the market.
Um, but we just charge appropriately for the amount of time and the ingredients that we [00:26:00] use. And we didn't know if people would like it, but people come in and the space itself is designed using, um, this kind of concept of Hooga. I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's a kind of Scandinavian concept of designing for comfort and coziness.
Um, it's spelled H Y G G E. And so the space itself is very calming and therapeutic. And so this whole idea of opening a little restaurant that feels almost spa-like and it's interior and comfy and cozy and being taken care of, um, is, is fairly unique for a little town in the town I live in is pretty.
And the fact that it's only 30 seats. Sometimes we have as many people in the kitchen as we do like eating in the restaurant because everything scratch made. And whereas a typical restaurant would probably spend, you know, 30% of its budget on labor, we spend 60%. Um, and we just charge more for, you know, a comparable thing, like a sandwich or a burger to reflect that.
Um, so the metrics of how we run the place are [00:27:00] very different from a typical restaurant. But when people come in and they eat there, a lot of the times they can't even quantify why it's different. They just know it feels really good. Like we have a bunch of board games and we have a giant Scrabble board on the wall.
Um, and you know, a lot of times we'll get families who come and they play connect four or they play battleship or what have you. And they sit there for hours and they have really good food. Um, you know, and they talk, we have, um, we have a house rules. One of the rules is no phones at the table, because again, we have this like small space and it's very distracting if you're sitting, you know, followed, I would say largely it is followed.
Yeah. I mean, we don't really scold people if they're on their phone because we understand that, you know, life is life. But, um, but for the most part, I will say like, people actually come there because we have the no phones and, you know, they can actually sit with their kids and have a conversation about their day versus like having the kids sitting on devices and being tuned out.
And so it very [00:28:00] much is about creating a different environment and a different experience. And the food is reflective of that. Um, but I also, yeah, well, but
Dan Ryan: with all the new guests coming in from your community, it's not like you pulled them and listened to them. And then you built this, you had a vision you heard there might, you saw there might've been, uh, an opening or, or a need and you built your vision, but now you have, you know, everyone coming in and everyone's got opinions, has halves listening to the guests in your rescue.
Changed or modified or made you think differently about how you listen to people or thinking about other your other endeavors? I
Kraig Kalashian: mean, I think with Pran, we have a really strong notion of what the brand is. And so when people give us opinions, it's only just like, well, does their opinion fit with our brand?
Or it does not fit with our brand, like the print, like the first house rule is be kind right. So, you know, the thing that we always want to convey is the sense of kindness and the sense of seeing our guests and hearing them. So if they're advocating, we implement some kind [00:29:00] of policy that is very unprimed, which is an adjective we use.
It's, something's very Pranner it's unprinted um, but you know, if they're advocating, we do something that doesn't feel like it fits with our house rules, then that's easy. We just like, don't listen to it. Like, yeah, that's not really us, it's not for us. Um, but if they're making a suggestion that, you know, uh, that kind of coincides with, you know, the ideology of the brand.
Then we usually think about, okay, how can we do that better? Um, and you know, and I think even, uh, you know, as you know, from entrepreneurship, this idea of making small, incremental improvements over time all the time, you know, the Japanese have a word for it, which is Kaizen. Um, you know, that is very much a part of, I think, any life and not just business, but like trying to be a little better today than you were yesterday.
Trying to be a little better next week than you were this week. Um, that's something that's ever present. I think in all of life, uh, you know, you never want to make the statement the same mistakes twice. And I think that, you [00:30:00] know, one of the first rules about running a restaurant, which I never understand why people mess this up, but like, if you make a mistake, you have to acknowledge it, right?
Like in restaurants make mistakes all the time. Like, you know, you get the wrong food, the food's cooked wrong. I asked for this, not this, like that happens literally every single day. And I think one of the things that really rings true with our customers, you know, is that if we make a mistake. You know, we immediately acknowledge it.
We apologize. And then we try and make good for it. So depending on the gravity of the mistake, it could be like, oh, you know, you didn't want onions and we put onions on your sandwich. Well, sorry, but like, Hey, pick any dessert it's on us, you know, really. Sorry. Um, so, you know, like, but, but acknowledging that you've made a mistake is human and something that absolutely needs to be done in the, in restaurants, because you've asked for a, and you've gotten cue, you know?
And, um, w one of the, one of the things that's part of our, you know, our house rules is that like, you know, if something's wrong, let us know and we'll fix it. Um, but at the [00:31:00] same time, we're usually the ones to catch when something's wrong. So I'll give you an example. Uh, sometimes we have people, we have a lot of takeout, a lot of pickup orders, and somebody will come and they'll get food and then they'll get home and they'll realize, oh, I didn't get my sandwich.
Or I got the wrong dessert or what have you, we will always. You know, we'll offer right out of the gate, like, well, where do you live? We're going to bring it to you. Now. That's a very inconvenient thing to do for us. Especially if we have a busy dining room in a busy kitchen, but like we screwed up. So we need to acknowledge that.
And nine out of 10 times there'll be like, oh, don't worry about it. Like just, you know, give me a credit or give me a refund or whatever. But you know, the idea that acknowledging, like we made a mistake and we have to fix it, um, is a huge, huge thing I think in life and especially in business, but it gives us, but that, but just that mindset gives us a lot of leeway with our customer because, you know, if you look at our reviews, I think the guy at Yelp told me we're the number one reviewed restaurant in all of [00:32:00] Morris county specifically, but maybe even top 10.
Like our customers never bash us online, which is like, I hear from other restaurant owners they always do. And that's, that's all the SEO
Dan Ryan: you're doing.
Kraig Kalashian: Just kidding. You're
Dan Ryan: not doing any of that either. Like
Kraig Kalashian: really? You don't do any marketing or advertising. It's all word of mouth. That's really
Dan Ryan: impressive.
So, uh, admitting mistakes or admitting wrong. And you said it's good in life, in life and business, but I always find whenever change is necessary or there's an issue or a miscommunication, it's always important to state what the issue is. Yeah. But then also accept a role in it because yeah, the other person or whatever, it might be doing something wrong, but also I'm at fault too, because.
I didn't communicate this to you in a way. So we've kind of gone that way. So thinking about that from your restaurant, then in these development deals are doing, you have shareholders now, right. Or an investor. So how do you wind up listening to them?
Kraig Kalashian: Well, that's, it's a great question. So [00:33:00] whenever we get a new hotel design project, the first thing I always do, so you have a client who's just bought this hotel, right?
And they have a, they have a, you know, a list, a capital expenditure list. This is where we're spending our money. They always come to you and they've already got the budget, all worked out. They've already got the scope worked out, and they're telling you, this is the design scope. And I, you know, I always validate it by going to TripAdvisor and reading, you know, the a hundred most recent review.
And, you know, if a hundred, most recent reviews say I had no hot water in my room, it's suck. I look at their budget and I say, well, where are you upgrading the hot water system? And they're like, oh, well, we're not doing that. Well, why not? That's what everybody's ripping you about on, you know, on TripAdvisor.
Right. So, you know, I think that, you know, customers will tell you what's wrong, but if you admit that it's bad and you say, yeah, I'm trying to fix it. They're much more understanding than if you just say, oh, you know, they're only staying here two nights. We don't have [00:34:00] to upgrade. Well, that's really expensive upgrading the hot water system for the building or what have you.
Um, so yeah, I think when you're, you know, when you're going into any new deal development or hotel design, There's all of this information online about what people think about your property or your product, or what you're trying to do. And even if you're creating something new, you can look at your competitors in that space and see like, well, what are, what are the pain points with my competitor that I can fix in mind?
Right? So if you're opening a new type of hotel or a new type of residential project or a new type of restaurant, you know, you have to say, well, who am I competitors going to be? And what do my, what do the guests of that competitor hate about that brand, where they don't like about that brand? And how can I improve upon that?
Because that's a point of differentiation in your business model. And I think that, um, you know, people are very vocal about things that they don't like these days, and it's easy to get that information. And I think if you can do that, um, you can use it as an advantage and put it in the front end of the project, rather than having to try to [00:35:00] compensate it at the back end of the project, which is unfortunately what happens a lot of the times when you listen solely to the client.
And I also think, I mean, we're very lucky in that we have. You know, a really amazing roster of clients. You stick with us project after project. Um, I always tell people I'm lucky. I don't really compete for a lot of work because I just get clients who call and say, okay, we got a new one. Let's go. Um, but I think the reason being is that I think we add a lot of value to the team by asking those types of questions or not being afraid to stand up to the client and say like, yeah, I know it's important to you that we change all the chandelier's in the lobby.
But you know, also I think we need to add housekeeping closets, uh, you know, on each floor because everybody's saying that the housekeeping in this hotel stinks and I bet you, one of the reasons is, is because the housekeeping. I have to go four floors to get new linens because the only housekeeping closet is four floors away.
Um, and that's also a big thing too, is, you know, it's one thing to have the client's input, but also talk to this, talking to the staff at the [00:36:00] property, you know, any housekeeper will tell you what they hate about the property and like 10 seconds. And I know you've probably found that out too with blue Canary is like, we know that the problems are
Dan Ryan: exactly, but you know, in talking about, so this is, you're talking about the way that you've normally done business of design designing on the hotel side.
So you're you're you were working with an owner and you're making it happen. Also at this ILC, uh, event. I was talking to Libby, uh, Patrick, Patrick. Yeah. And she was, she's starting to develop her own property. She sat in Alabama and she said you were an inspiration for
Kraig Kalashian: that. And you heard us say that. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: So in a way you're having this impact in other ways. And so, yeah, that's your normal way of doing it, but now you're also doing your own development deals. So now, how are you listening to all those stakeholders as you're doing, as you're doing that?
Kraig Kalashian: I mean, I think when you're the one leading the charge, the stakeholders are kind of following your vision, right?
So I think that any, [00:37:00] any good designer that I know is, has strong opinions about how things should be, right? Cause you can't be on the fence about design and want to put forward a really strong project. I think you have to be very convicted in what you believe. And I think with our development projects, one of the things that I think gives us a lot of credibility is that for 10 years, I essentially bootstrapped everything that we did.
So, you know, I lived a pretty small lifestyle and I took any extra money that I had. And I, you know, you know what they say, skin in the game, so to speak, you know, so I had been developing out in the Poconos for 10 years all with my own money. And when people said, well, that makes no sense. I would say, well, I did it.
And here's the numbers. And here's how it worked out and everything we're doing defies the market. Right? So if the average home sale and the Poconos is $150,000 for a three bedroom, two bath house, that's 2000 square feet and we build the same product and sell it for three 50, like here's proof of [00:38:00] concept.
And so I think, you know, you know, when you're trying to raise money, uh, everybody's always skeptical. They're looking to poke holes, but if you're willing to do it, you know, kind of slowly and small at first with your own resources and, you know, you could build a piece of furniture. And sell it and prove to somebody that, you know, you have an idea for something that'll work.
Like I think a lot of people always think of the big project and how that's kind of unrealistic or difficult because it's so huge. But you know, if you start small and then snowball over time, you know, and like I said, that idea of Kaizen improving a little bit, you know, every day, every week, every month, you know, you start with a little tiny house or something, you know, there's, there's always something you can buy that you can afford.
And it might be really, really crappy. And it might take you two years to fix it up or build it. Um, but you know, you can always start small and prove, maybe it's just proving to yourself that you can do it at first. Um, but you know, that's kind of how we built up [00:39:00] credibility is that like, I just did stuff myself and I have a really great team.
There's a guy out in the Poconos named Sean, who, if anybody knows me, they know Sean, because he's like my right hand at some point. Um, but you know, also it's, it's building a team of people. That will go along with you on the ride. And if you have a team of people and you know, I have to credit my, my firm because pretty much everybody who's been at my firm has been with me.
Like since the get-go, you know, I don't really knock on wood. I'm lucky. I don't really have a lot of turnover. We've lost a couple of people here and there, but like even the people that we've lost, like I still talk to them regularly. Um, like all, and some of them are my best friends. Like, you know, our creative director, Joe who's with me on and off for like 10 years.
Like we still talk all the time. And so those relationships, so if you have a really strong team, really great relationships, and if you have a really strong vision and a perspective, and you're willing to go it alone for a little while, I think it's really easy to line up those partners and get them on board because [00:40:00] there's, there's very little risk involved because if you're willing to do it yourself without any help, and you've done that, then all you have to do is show your track record and say, Hey, you know, I've got more skin in the game than anybody.
So it's really not risky for you. But then you say,
Dan Ryan: you're saying go it alone for a little while. It's it's more than a little while you've been doing it for years and years and years. So don't like, it's, it's a P you've proved your concept. Now you can look at doing bigger deals and then find investors to come along so that you can go go after those.
Sure. But, but as you're saying, you said a couple of times start small bootstrap. Um, and it's interesting. I've been having conversations, so it's about hospitality. You know, some people might think, oh, it's Amman or it's four seasons or whatever, the Mandarin Oriental, like the best examples of hospitality, but I've been having more and more conversations with people about when all is stripped away.
And you're at the bare bones and it's Spartan. Um, there is a place of peace and [00:41:00] comfort and hearing others and, and, and this kind of Zen calm. And if you remember. As you were saying start small a problem. It just brought me back to, I did this, uh, curated dinner, virtual dinner through the pandemic with David, um, rich, his palabra, where we were talking about navigating change and how you did it.
And you surprised me because you told, you talked about this story about when you were, I think it was just out of high school or maybe in college, you were in a van going around the country, playing rock shows and you were so happy and it was so simple. And now, now I see you over the course of the course of the pandemic.
You've changed your eating style. You're working out like you're, you're like a different human being and there's uncomfort or discomfort in that. So tell me about how you, in those moments, you found a peace and enlightenment and inspiration in that discomfort.
Kraig Kalashian: Yeah. I th I think for me, all of [00:42:00] that revolves around mindset, right?
So when you think of kids and how unencumbered they are and how free spirited they are and how much fun that they have, just, you know, with simple things, like, you know, you give a six year old, a cardboard box and that's like four hours of entertainment and, you know, making imaginary clubhouses and stuff.
And I think what had happened to me was I got caught, you know, so yeah, that time when I was in a band and we were driving around in a van and, you know, I was completely unencumbered. I mean, that was amazing. Cause I didn't have a ton of responsibility. I just had to like play that show in New Hampshire tomorrow night, you know?
And I didn't, I wasn't necessarily worried about money, but I also, wasn't trying to make money either. So, um, but you know, then you get back into the corporate world and the business world and you start convincing yourself about things like status and salary and you know, title and, you know, you get wrapped up in these kind of things that aren't really real.
Um, and so you start taking on all this kind of adult [00:43:00] stress. I have a friend, we call it the process of adulting, you know, all of these things that you're supposed to have, like the big house and the fancy car and all of that sort of thing. Um, you know, you start getting wrapped up in this process of adulting and you start caring about, you know, how your neighbor, Mo's their lawn and all of these things that are really insignificant.
And I think for me over the last year through the pandemic, you know, I started kind of taking my life apart piece by piece and saying, well, what's really important. Have I prioritize myself? And that, that like kid mentality in myself and you know, how do I get back to that place of being unencumbered?
And a lot of it is being present. It's being really vocal about how I feel about things. And so, you know, you've had that client that says, I need all that work by tomorrow. End of day, you know, and in the past I would have been like, well, I'll do my best. I'll get it to you by end of day. And now I'm just.
You know, I'm really not comfortable promising that because I just don't think it's possible, but, you know, I think it would be possible for next Wednesday. And so, you [00:44:00] know, I just try, you know, and I, having kids, as you know, is like a huge inspiration just because they're not burdened with all the things we're burdened with and they can look at problems and perspectives in a totally different way.
And so just kind of taking on this kind of kid, like mentality to a lot of life, um, and trying to be a, and again, what I said before about hospitality, somebody just like putting everything aside and meeting your needs in that time in place, like being a hundred percent present, um, you know, I was probably not present wherever I was at because you're checking your email, you're checking your phone every second.
And, you know, once you create the expectation with somebody that you're going to respond to an email in 20 minutes, you get more emails, right? Because the quicker you respond, the more back and forth you have. Through the pandemic. I don't know if you notice this, but like people just weren't responding to emails and like record time.
They were like getting back to you two days later and it created this kind of slower flow that I still think we're living with, but I think it's actually good because I think it allows people to be more [00:45:00] present. And so my own personal change in lifestyle really started with mindset and wanting to a, like prioritize myself more so that I could be more present and have clear head to do the things that I wanted to do.
And that also allowed me to like focus in on my preferences and what I like and what I want to do. Um, and then also, you know, now when I'm working with clients and having meetings and traveling, like I can be more present for them, which actually I think has made me better at my job. Um, because I'm not trying to do everything at once.
Like a lot of people do. Um, and there's nothing wrong with that. It just doesn't work for. Um, but you know, I think changing your mindset to being back in that van. Hold on,
Dan Ryan: hold on, hold on, hold on. It's funny. I want to go back to the band part, but it's funny where you say, cause you can't be all those things, all those people and I want to be present.
And I think you just said like, cause I'm not doing all those things, but you are, you, you have so many things happening, but you're able to be [00:46:00] present with each one and
Kraig Kalashian: that, but they take a really long time. Like let's, let's not kid ourselves. Like I don't, when I'm doing stuff for myself, it doesn't happen quickly at all.
So like, you know, I have a client now who's taking a restaurant space and they want to be open in six months. Okay. That's like their goal. And I told them, I don't see it happening in six months. I think a year is more realistic if all the parts align and then they're like, well, we'll push as fast as we can.
And we'll see what happens. But in my mind, I'm like it's a year. You know what I mean? So, um, but when we opened our little 30 seat restaurant, like it took 19 months, you know, even when and it's, and it's tiny, like we didn't spend a lot of money on it. You know, but like for me to open a 30 seat restaurant that would take somebody six weeks took me 19 months.
So I subscribe more to the Einstein approach, which I don't know if you've read this thing about Einstein where, you know, everybody was crediting Einstein with being so prolific for like five years where he came out with the theory relativity and he came out with this other thing, you know, and like, it was like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
And, you know, and then when he did an [00:47:00] interview, they're like, how did, how in these five years were able to be so prolific with all these theories? And he was like, I've been working on all those theories for like 25 years. They just all hit at the same time. And so I think what you're saying is similar, like, it seems like, you know, I'm, uh, so prolific, but like this, this a hotel deal that we're closing on at the end of this month, like I've been working on this for seven years.
Like, you know, because I had to figure out, you know, how do we get this done? How do we do it in a timeline? That makes sense, how do we pay for it? Or. Um, you know, so it's like, I understand that you reach a point. I think when things get a lot easier when you know more and you have more resources and more support.
So maybe it seems like everything is happening at the same time, but a lot of these things have taken years and years and years. Um, and they just landing at the same time.
Dan Ryan: You've become an over overnight success after 30
Kraig Kalashian: years. Yeah, exactly. That's what, that's exactly what it seems like. Right. But I, I'm not trying to kid anybody and say, you know, oh, look how [00:48:00] accomplished I am.
I mean, this year is going to be the biggest year ever. We're doing nine things. And it's like, no, those nine things have taken 15 years. They just happen to all be hitting right now because you know, the way the world is, I guess. But, um, but you know, as I said, time is an ingredient, right? So everything great takes time.
And so, you know, our restaurant is, it took us eight, 19 months to open the first one we've been operating now for almost two years. Um, and you know, it'll probably be another year before we do another one, which, you know, we're going to put one in the hotel we're opening in Pennsylvania. Um, you know, and it's like, if we ever get to multiple units, it's probably going to be a decade before we have, you know, eight or nine of them.
If we do, I don't know if we will, but you know, th th th the thing about there's a phrase that I like, and it's, um, never be afraid of things that'll take time because the time will pass anyway. Right. So you can look at yourself into that 10 years ago and say like, oh, You know, if I would have started, then I'd be done by now.
[00:49:00] Sure. But you didn't start 10 years ago, you know, but you could've and small steps. So that's
Dan Ryan: someone recently just came up like, oh my God, you're doing this podcast. You got your work, you've got these other entrepreneurial things going on. Like, how do you, how do you, I've never seen anyone keep it all up there.
And it's true. It's not like I just flipped a switch and did it. Right. It's really it's time. And it's managing my time and keeping my calendar as a hard landscape and really being militant about how to allocate.
Kraig Kalashian: Yeah. I mean, look at like Joe Rogan or mark man who were podcasting when nobody was podcasting.
Right. And now they have thousands of episodes of their podcast and they have huge endorsements and huge listener base. And you say, oh, and everyone's like, oh, I want to be Joe Rogan or mark Marin. And it's like, well, yeah. Okay. So start, you need to get at least a thousand episodes under your belt. You know what I mean?
And it's like, that's going to take time, you know, and you're going to need people and so forth. Again, I think it's a series of, you know, just like great projects or a series of small little details, all woven together. Just that's like life, like [00:50:00] anything big is a series of tiny things that are woven together over time.
But again, the time is the ingredient and the, you know, the commitment to the effort. And so, you know, I always love this. There's a Ted talk. I don't know if you've seen it about time management, where they have this like person who specializes in time management. And she talks about a week being 168 hours every week.
Everybody gets the same, 168 hours. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but that's, you know, 24 times seven is 168. And so most people have a job where they work 40 to 50 hours a week. Right. Which leaves 118 hours. If you work 50 hours a week. And most people sleep, I don't know, seven, eight hours a night.
So that's another 56 hours. So you're left with 50 hours. What are you doing in that 50 hours? Everybody has 50 extra hours after sleeping. The same amount of time. Right? So what are you doing with it? So when people say to me like, oh, well you do so much. It's like, no, I just carve up my 168 hours differently than you carve yours up.
And, you know, and yeah. And there's sacrifices involved with that too. Whereas like, I don't really watch a lot of TV. [00:51:00] Like a lot of people are, have you seen game of Thrones? Have you seen it? Like, no, I've never seen enough stuff. I came in Thrones. Um, but that's just a different choice that I make. Whereas I'll choose to like read a lot, you know, or I'll choose to, you know, journal or write songs or work on new recipes or what ha whatever.
It's just how I carve up my 168 hours. And I think if, if you start keeping a time journal, which I always encourage everybody that I meet to do, like keep a time journal for one week, understand where you spend your time. Um, and it's funny because, uh, people have come back to me and is like, I time journal last week.
And I never realized I spent five hours a week at target. Like, why do I do that? You know, Um, or I spend, you know, four hours a week, it's interacting with Starbucks in some way every week. And it's like, when you start to look at your week as five hours at target four hours at Starbucks, you know, eight hours at the supermarket, you know, it's three hours, it's
Dan Ryan: diluting
Kraig Kalashian: that, that, that, and then you ask yourself, well, why am I not where I want to be over here?
How come I don't have that? You know, [00:52:00] that podcast yet? It's like, well, because you're spending 25 hours a week at things that are not paying you back in any way, there's no return on that investment of time. Whereas you could be investing your time and something that will return, or even that will give you self-esteem or, you know, the return doesn't always have to be financial.
It could be emotional, you know, becoming proficient at a skill, learning a language. Those are things that make you feel good about yourself. And again, so when I talk about the last year of like diving into self care, You know, I try to spend my time on things that are esteemable acts, which will also like, make me feel better about, you know, about what I'm doing and how I'm spending my time.
Because so many of the things we spend our time on specifically like social media and all of that, those are not really esteemable acts they're, you know, they're more like addictions, which often lead to negative feelings and negative behavior that you're not doing enough and that you're not, you know, compare you're comparing yourself to other people.
Yeah. And this whole
Dan Ryan: idea of keeping up with the Joneses is [00:53:00] really, it's a, it's a very difficult balance, right? And when you say, oftentimes when we look at our 50 hours, the 50 extra, what are we doing with it? For instance, this podcast, it's not about, there's no ROI in it. I truly enjoy it. It's making me feel good.
I'm getting to talk to people. I really enjoy talking to you. And I'm curious about, but also I love. Our industry so much. And I think that there's so many little stories that we can all learn from and benefit from and kind of move the needle forward. And one of the cool things that I'm hearing is, you know, we all have these great experiences of hospitality and terrible ones, and oftentimes those terrible experiences really inform a life path for us.
So when you think about looking back at all of your experiences and hospitality, not just in hotels, it's in everything, right? Because it exists everywhere. Right? What is like one of the worst examples of that from your life and how did it direct you in a different, on
a
Kraig Kalashian: different path? Like a really bad experience that made [00:54:00] me change something.
Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Change
Dan Ryan: something about you, uh, how you operate, how you listen, how you talk, whatever it is, how you design a terrible experience of hospitality that changed your path to do things differently and make others feel comfortable.
Kraig Kalashian: Interesting. Uh, great question. Um, Wow. Uh, I think for me, it's more of a accumulation of experience.
So, you know, you and I both travel a lot. We're in airports all the time. Um, one of the things that I think really affected me through all the traveling that we did and all the hotels we stay at is just, you know, the food that you eat when you're on the road, you know, airport pizza, and you know, all of the options, I would say, um, you know, as, as a culture, we like to talk about health and wellness and, you know, giving people options for health and wellness.
But when you travel, it is really hard to have [00:55:00] like good food experiences. Right. And you know, you go to any Marriott in the world. The menu's exactly the same. There's the burger, there's this Cobb salad. It's like all the same kind of generic food. None of it is really prepared with consideration. It's literally just standard.
So I think for me as somebody who like I prize travel, like being able to travel to me is always like amazing in one dress. But then hadn't, you know, having to sit down at a meal where I know I'm making a sacrifice to have this meal, because like to be there at that restaurant means I'm not all these other places that I could be.
Um, cause normally most of us are like eating on the go or grabbing something for the road or whatever. But, you know, having had just a series of bad, bad travel food experiences, you know, I just always wonder like, why can't somebody just care more about this? Like why can't the menu have like four things on it and they're all amazing.
And I've had this conversation with hoteliers and operators. And philosophically [00:56:00] they're like, yeah. You know, like we agree with you, we get it. But you know, we have to have options for everybody. And I'm like, no, you don't. Right. Like, um, so I think being able to impact the food conversations when we're developing hotels and restaurants with owners and operators specifically comes from all the bad experiences that I've had at hotels and, and airports and so forth, because like, I'm always a fan of like, we'll do a couple of things really, really well versus trying to have like a four page menu where everything sucks, you know, and, you know, wanting to have a meal in a hotel at nine o'clock at night when I've just gotten in after a five-hour travel session.
And, and the only option I can have is, you know, some frozen flatbread or, you know, or a burger it's like, you need to do better, dude. Like, that's just, it's. You know, and the only place I can eat it at is at the bar because everything else is [00:57:00] closed. Um, whereas like you could have a very thoughtful room service menu that has three that has a really good soup, you know, like that's just homemade, you know what I mean?
Or, you know, and, and like that to me is just really irresponsible of anybody who wants to operate a hospitality business because, you know, any guest I think would rather have something amazing than something that's just phoned in and mediocre, like totally agree, you know, and I think that is definitely one negative experience I've had traveling that has led me to be super passionate about food and health and nutrition and opening a restaurant and wanting to accommodate people in those environments because, you know, anybody could go to the CVS and buy a microwave, double burger or anybody to go to the all-night drug store and get a protein bar.
Sure. Like those little marketplaces that are next to every register and a lot of limited service motels. Those drive me nuts, because like, so you're saying my only food options at midnight are like Pringles [00:58:00] and checks, mics and candy bars and soda. Like that's, that's literally all I can have. And that just is, to me, it
Dan Ryan: doesn't set you up for a good day, the next day.
Kraig Kalashian: So on thoughtful. Um, and again, going back to this idea of like seeing somebody and trying to be considerate and like stopping what you're doing and focusing on them, all that stuff is just so inconsiderate and cookie cutter. Um, it's really led me to be like super passionate about trying to get my clients to think a little bit bigger and, you know, and say like, well, why can't you just have this one image?
Cause like in the restaurant business, we don't, you know, everything is not cooked to order. You don't make the soup when they order it, you make a giant pot of soup and it's either kept in a hot, well or you heat it to order. But my point is, is like, that's also very easily. For a rash for a hotel to do is just have a pot of soup in the fridge.
And when somebody orders it, you heat it up. Like it's not a big deal, but that's the only be really amazing, same thing with like a panini, like how hard is it to take a pre-made [00:59:00] sandwich and throw it in a panini press and deliver somebody like a crunchy crusty sandwich with a little side of soup.
That's amazing. Right. But like, you know, I mean, I think DoubleTree did a good thing with that warm cookie. You know, they have that cookie warmer people for those cookies, right? I mean, it's funny.
Dan Ryan: I interviewed my friend Lauren, uh, from sweet Lawrence and I want DoubleTree to take on her cookies because it's vegan and gluten free.
So they are awesome. But imagine all the people that. And keep that cookie. I love rice. . I can eat that DoubleTree cookie, but I don't know how many people are gluten free or vegan or whatever. And
Kraig Kalashian: they, and then too, like the cookies have nuts in them. So, yeah, but I feel like if from again, from the brand perspective, if they were gluten-free vegan, nut-free, they'd probably have to give out way more of them.
So they'd be like, well, there's a lot of people that won't eat the cookie because it has nuts. So that prevents us from giving away too many sort of things. So, but yeah, I agree with you, but that again, is that [01:00:00] idea of consistent improvement, right? So if everybody loves the DoubleTree cookie, but you know, half the customers won't eat it, you have to say, well, how can we make more people eat?
Oh, we're going to switch to this brand. That's like more accessible and more,
Dan Ryan: um, well, moving, moving from that, that, when you think about the future, what's keeping you up at night right now.
Kraig Kalashian: Uh, I mean, I think what's keeping me up is just the collective emotional state of everybody I run into, you know, and just how stressful.
The world is right now. And, you know, from your end of it, you could use words like supply chain and logistics, but from my side of it, it's just, you know, people are afraid of a variety of things from, you know, health and financial security and emotional wellness. And, you know, I think, you know, the fact that I've tried to be a little bit more mindful has made me a little bit more aware of, you know, what everybody else is going through.
And so I just, you know, when you read the news or the media or you go on online or [01:01:00] social, you know, you see a lot of just like negativity and things like that. And I, I, you know, I want to try and figure out a way for collectively to everybody get past, you know, all the differences and just, you know, have a kind of carefree attitude and say, you know, you do, what's good for you.
And I'm fine with that. And not have everybody jumping everybody over time, but you do you and I'll do me. I mean, it's a big issue in our hospitality world because, you know, think about how, you know, designing a bathroom should be pretty simple. Right. But now it's like, well, is it, is it all gender neutral?
Is it male and men and women, and then all genders and you know, what do I need to put in the all gender one versus the men? When is it okay to put this in the women's one and the mountain it's like, these are conversations that we're having that tie directly back to cultural issues that also tie into, you know, mental wellness and so forth, you know, does a, does a transgender person feel comfortable going into a men's room or a women's room?
And will somebody give them a [01:02:00] second? Look, if they identify as one. Um, you know, and that you're not supposed to be in here and all that sort of thing. So these cultural issues that affect our mental wellness, like, you know, I spent a lot of time thinking about like, well, what's the solution? How can we make everything as inclusive as possible?
Because inclusivity is a huge thing. Part of hospitality. And when I say inclusivity, a lot of people immediately are triggered into thinking of like a cultural buzzword, but literally inclusivity is like the backbone of hospitality, making somebody feel welcome, that's inclusivity. Right.
Dan Ryan: Um, and if you look at us and you know, America, our diversity and our inclusivity is our strong suit.
And somehow it's gotten it's, there's always been polarization, but it just seems more polarized now. And I just, I believe that our inclusivity diversity is really our, really our strength. And we need to bring that out more.
Kraig Kalashian: Yeah. You know, but there's, there's that, you know, there's a huge, as you've seen a [01:03:00] big push back.
On wanting to make things more inclusive, which I don't really understand because, you know, as far as I knew when I was growing up, I was told the country was a melting pot, right? So it's like everybody all together, all different types, shapes, sizes, colors. And somehow we started to proliferate all the differences and you know, well, this person is different.
That person is different. And now we need to have a policy just for that person. It's like, no, like, um, when, when the ADA act was passed about accessible design, the thesis was is that if you design for accessibility, literally anybody can use it. It's we're not really calling out the person who needs it.
We're just saying this works for everybody universal design. Um, and I think that the same needs to be true for any new, you know, movement or any cultural thing that's happening is like, we need to find a way to design where it's just universal and nobody feels different for using those that way. Um, and I, you know, and I fought with, I fought with [01:04:00] people on this, like, why don't we just, instead of having a men's room and a women's room, if the, if the code says we need 10 toilets, let's have 10 individual, you know, anybody can use them restrooms and that's easy.
And like, you know, and they say, well, that's, you know, that's going to be more expensive. I'm like, yeah, but you're basically, you're renovating it. You know, you're making it so that it's good for forever. Like nobody in the future will ever have to spend money on this again. But if you make it gendered, you're basically passing the bill for somebody in the future to have to do it.
And you're not really creating value. You could be a leader in this space. Let's be the first hotel on the market to have all, you know, neutral bathrooms like, you know, so sometimes you have to argue for progress, but really it's about universal accessibility and inclusion. And you're saying, well, let's not universal comfort.
Yeah. University. And I think that also gives somebody who might have anxiety or be nervous about going into a restroom, it takes it away. It takes it away. And isn't that the point of hospitality [01:05:00] is to like put that person at ease and, you know, comfortable. Right. So, um,
Dan Ryan: it's like, why even have that difficult decision?
It's like, it's a stressful decision moment. So I hear you on where we are now, but as you look forward and I know you're always so very optimistic, but what's exciting. You most about the future of critic?
Kraig Kalashian: Um, you know, I think I'm excited by what I call kind of invisible technology, things that just work without you having to think about them.
I, I think technology is a really great thing, but I think we often make too much about making it showy, invisible and big, and I love that. Invisible technology. That just works. So for example, like, you know, when you fly, you get your ticket on your phone, your boarding pass on your phone, you just swipe as you go.
You can literally, I don't know about you, but I'm one of these people that turns up at the airport, like 10 minutes before my flight leaves. And I, I walked through clear and I walked through TSA and I get on it and people are just like, I could never do that. Like, but I can [01:06:00] only do that because of technology.
Right? Like it scans my retinas and it says, go right on in. And you know, I don't, I'm familiar enough with not having stuff in my bag that slows me up. And I know where all the gates are and I can just, you know, breeze right through like that, that kind of simplicity really excites me. And how can we make, you know, like the hotel check-in process that seamless, like I've heard tell about brands that are making it.
You can go right to your room. I've never experienced it personally, but I want
Dan Ryan: to try that. I don't know where that
Kraig Kalashian: is. I've heard, I've heard brands, you know, tout about it, but I've never actually experienced. Um, but you know, like, let's say for example, you have a 30 room hotel and you know, all your, who, all your guests are coming before they turn up, you tell them, well, you're going to be in room 28 and you know, and then they go in the room and they have filled out through your app, a series of preferences of what they like.
I like it, this temperature, you know, I like, these are my favorite snacks. These are my favorite [01:07:00] drinks. And, you know, it's just this little thing. And then they calm and it's completely customized and curated for them because they answered eight questions on an app. It's just totally invisible. But immediately they feel at home.
I love that. Yeah know, but you
Dan Ryan: know what so much in the same way, when you were talking about the robots before, it kind of freaks me out too. Like I liked that collision with the other. No.
Kraig Kalashian: Sure. But you can choose that. So you could say like, I want to check in at a desk. I want to talk to them, you know, or I want to go right to my room.
It's really about your preferences, not a universe. You know what I mean? Like universally, you're giving people the choice, but people are going to make different choices and you know, you're doing it to the point where it's consensual. So they're agreeing to give you their preference for their favorite drink or their favorite snack.
But like, if I'm, for example, a health conscious traveler who really likes homemade granola, you know, and it's, you know, if there's a question is what's the one thing we could put in your room that would immediately [01:08:00] like, you know, uh, make you feel like we get you or whatever. And if I say like homemade granola, you know, and it's just like, you know, with, with online, you can literally order anything or you can even have choices that will speak to different people.
But the point being is that the technology is there to allow you to learn more about your customer in any business, not just hotels, but to the point where you can just go. It's not even the extra mile. It's like the extra 20 feet just to differentiate yourself between the kind of cold check-in experience that a lot of.
Well, it goes
Dan Ryan: back to how do we listen to others? And how can we get ahead of that so that we can't anticipate now, how old were you when you went on the road trip with, uh, uh, I was in my late
Kraig Kalashian: twenties. I was in a band in my late twenties and it was like right after nine 11, and I had like a big corporate job at a big firm.
And, uh, my band was just like, you know, let's just go on [01:09:00] tour. And I was just like, yeah. So I quit, my job, bought a van and we drove around
Dan Ryan: for a year. So my question is, if you go back to just before you start that, that van, that van trip with your band, knowing everything, you know, now, what advice do you give yourself?
Kraig Kalashian: Uh, don't take everything too seriously. I think, I think taking, taking life too seriously is one of the big. Problems of being human. We tend to give a lot of gravity to things that are insignificant. Um, somebody recently told me they have this thing called the five and five rule. If it's not going to matter in five years, don't spend five minutes thinking about it.
And that's like a good litmus test for when you're stressed about something. It's also that
Dan Ryan: idea of adult defying, or what did you call it? Adult
Kraig Kalashian: on adult adulting. It's a process of adulting is being stressed. You know, adults,
Dan Ryan: hashtag adult.
Kraig Kalashian: Well, yeah, unlearn. You have to unlearn a lot of adult behavior unshackle because nobody, you know, the truth is nobody really knows what they're doing.
I think that's one of the other things that [01:10:00] I've learned, you talk to really successful people and they're just going by their gut a lot. They're winging it. And you think like, oh, you on mosque must have it all figured out. And then you're like, no, he doesn't, he's just, you know, just winging it. Right. So totally.
But the way in which he's winging, it is somehow inspiration of other people who want to be him and all that sort of thing. So, um, you know, nobody's got it figured out and I think that that's. It's important to just have that perspective. And so like, if you could choose to be, you know, de-stressed and kid-like and approach everything with enthusiasm and fun versus like being stressed and worrying about it.
And again, it's, it's all about communication. So if you go into a room and you feel like you don't know anything, um, and all these people are smarter than you, and they're going to think I'm stupid because they all know our experience. Just start asking questions and, you know, if somebody mentions an acronym, you've never heard, just say, Hey, um, can you, what is that acronym?
You know, or whatever. Cause like I I'm constantly finding people are using acronyms more and more these days it might be [01:11:00] a conference. It might be, you know, a management technique or whatever. And it's like, well, I don't, I don't know that. So, and I think it's funny because when you start being vulnerable in that way, and it's saying like, I don't know what that is.
Can you explain. Somehow in this weird twist, it almost endears them more to you than them thinking. You're ignorant. You know what I mean? The fact that you spoke up and you said, I don't know what that is. You're human, you're human and people like you, you know what I mean? They like you more so, um,
Dan Ryan: Craig, I like you, I like you a lot and I want more people the land.
So, so where can, where can people connect with you? How do they get, how do they,
Kraig Kalashian: um, yeah, so, I mean, I have, I'm lucky I have a kind of unique, last name. So, you know, on Instagram, it's just, my last name is collation. And then I think the design firm is collation underscore design on Instagram. Um, or our website is collation.com and you can email any of us through there as well.
And that's with a K Craig, K a [01:12:00] L a S H I a N. Dot. Awesome.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, and then how about, uh, Pocono modern? Oh yeah.
Kraig Kalashian: So Pocono modern is just exactly, as it sounds, the Poconos are a mountain region in Northeast PA it's P O C O N O Pocono. And, um, and then pren, which has arguably the most successful social channels out there because we post a lot of food, pictures and recipes, um, Prentice, just P R E N pren kitchen@instagramorprenkitchen.com.
Awesome. Um, and then, yeah, and then, uh, we'll we launching the hotel a website soon as we, uh, work to complete our first, uh, cool all kind of resort in the Poconos, which will be coming later this year, early next year. I'm sure you, and I'll be talking more about that in the near future too. Cause I'd love to have you involved in some way, but, um, I'm I
Dan Ryan: definitely want to be, and I just want to say, uh, Craig, thank you so much for
being
Kraig Kalashian: a guest.
Oh, thanks for having me, Dan. It's been a real pleasure. [01:13:00] Awesome. And
Dan Ryan: uh, also thank you to our listeners. Um, speaking with Craig, you know, it's made me think differently about hospitality. If it made you think differently, please share the podcast with someone else that may benefit and thank you everyone.
We'll see you next time.
