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Scott Shute, a former head of mindfulness and compassion programs at LinkedIn, says workplace change must come from the inside out.
Join Emmy award-winning producer and Omega director of digital media Cali Alpert for Season 4, as she drops in for intimate conversations with some of Omega's trailblazing spiritual teachers, thought leaders, and social visionaries, to explore ways to awaken the best in the human spirit. New episodes will be posted weekly.
Cali Alpert:
Welcome to Dropping In from Omega Institute, a podcast that explores the many ways to awaken the best in the human spirit. I'm Cali Alpert.
Cali Alpert:
Dropping into our Omega studio today, Scott Shute. Scott is at the intersection of the workplace and ancient wisdom traditions. He blends his experience as a Silicon Valley executive with his lifelong practice and passion as a wisdom seeker and teacher. In his most recent role at LinkedIn, Scott was the head of mindfulness and compassion programs. He is also the author of the highly acclaimed book, The Full Body Yes. The real measure of success Scott says, is how happy we feel every day.
Cali Alpert:
Scott, welcome. Thank you for dropping in today on Omega's Rhinebeck, New York campus. I'm so happy to meet you.
Scott Shute:
Thanks so much for having me. It's so great to be here and actually be in person with you.
Cali Alpert:
I know. Isn't that such a joy? It's a novelty, isn't it?
Scott Shute:
I just realized I've done a ton of these. This might be the first one I've actually done where I was in the same room with someone. We've been doing all these by Zoom for so long.
Cali Alpert:
I know. Oh, wow.
Scott Shute:
So what a treat to be here.
Cali Alpert:
Well, I'm honored then to rechristen the idea of just being in person with people.
Scott Shute:
Yeah.
Cali Alpert:
What a concept. Right? So the other thing that's quite a concept or radical concept is just the idea that success at work should be measured by a person's level of happiness. That's, for many, a very far out concept. You know?
Scott Shute:
Right.
Cali Alpert:
A lot of people are conditioned to gauge success by sweat equity and titles.
Scott Shute:
Sure.
Cali Alpert:
And even the idea of struggling and overworking at the expense of feeling happy.
Scott Shute:
Right.
Cali Alpert:
So has it taken people a while to make space for these ideas that you advocate for? And if so, why?
Scott Shute:
For sure. I think it's a journey. And sometimes the journey is easier the older you get, and sometimes it's the young people who have already figured this out. But we are conditioned in a certain way to think about work in a certain way, right?
Cali Alpert:
Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
That Mondays are bad and Fridays are good. "Oh, thank God for Friday. So we can go live our real lives on the weekend."
Cali Alpert:
Right.
Scott Shute:
Why?
Cali Alpert:
Two days out. It's bad percentage, isn't it? Bad ratio.
Scott Shute:
Yeah. Well, I guess to start, maybe let's talk about the history of work for just a second, because this gets us here. It's such a interesting thing. So in the really old days, in the agrarian age, like the building of the pyramids, we had kings and slaves. And then in the industrial age, when we all worked and made the same thing in the same factory, workers are not treated very well.
Cali Alpert:
Right.
Scott Shute:
And then, now in the information age, it's different. Workers can go where they want, they have more freedom. And so we have this place where we can be more of who we want. But these old ideals about work itself is rooted in this old tradition where work was not fun, right? Work was something you had to do just to be alive, just to feed your family. Or sometimes, you were forced into it.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
But now, you can kind of do what you want as long as you make enough money to survive, and it actually takes very little money to survive-survive. And everything after that is choice. Right? So people say, "Oh, I don't really have a choice." Of course, you do. Of course, you can just walk out the door and leave your job. Of course, you can leave that relationship. Of course, you can do anything you want to do.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
Now, all of those come with consequences.
Cali Alpert:
Easy for you to say, right? That's-
Scott Shute:
Yeah. They all come with consequences.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
But we have the choice, and that's actually a very powerful thing. So it starts with, why do you work? And most people have never really thought about this, like really, really thought about why they work. They just followed the herd. They got the best degree they could get. They got the best job they could get and the corner office and the flashy car and whatever was seemingly the prize. But most people don't stop and go, "Wait, why? Why am I doing this?"
Scott Shute:
Well, to use a business term, if you think about Six Sigma, if there's any business piece people out there, one of the really important things about Six Sigma is asking the five whys. In other words, you ask a question about why, and then you get the answer and you ask why again? So why do you work? Well, I want to be successful. Oh, why do you want to be successful? Because I want a fancy car. Why do you want a fancy car? So my neighbors will think I'm important. Well, why do you want your neighbors to think you're important? So I'll feel good about myself. Why do you want to feel good about yourself? Because I want to be happy. The answer to the five whys always ends up, "I just want to be happy."
Scott Shute:
So instead of having five or six or 10 layers in between happiness, why don't we just do the things that will make us happy? So the basics of this is do what you love, find the thing that you love, or shape the thing that you're doing to be more the thing that you love. And we can change the goal posts, instead of being about some weird external validation thing about success, like the car or the title or whatever. Do I feel fulfilled? Do I feel happier? Do I make everybody else around me feel happier? That sounds pretty good.
Cali Alpert:
It does. It sounds really good. I think about even a job that I had many years ago in my television career. On paper, it was a really good thing on every level, and I was miserable. And I continued to talk myself into thinking I was okay with it even though the little voice inside was knocking really loudly.
Scott Shute:
Yeah.
Cali Alpert:
Until one day I woke up and I gave myself permission to be honest with my feelings, with myself.
Scott Shute:
Yes.
Cali Alpert:
I didn't even say that out loud to anyone.
Scott Shute:
Yes.
Cali Alpert:
And that was a huge revelatory moment. And so my question to you would be, why do you suppose that people are so conditioned the other way?
Scott Shute:
I think it probably starts in our evolutionary programming. Right? We got into tribes or into groups of people to have a better chance of staying alive. Right? And we end up being social people. And to have a certain status within that tribe allows us to have safety because they're not going to throw us out. They're not going to vote us off the island if we're popular or if we're useful to the tribe. And I think that conditioning just kind of evolved as things changed. Right? And so I think it's kind of natural to say, "Okay, well the more money you have or the more status you have or the more people like you, the safer you are."
Cali Alpert:
Right.
Scott Shute:
All right. So this is all the conditioning, all of this makes us safe. Safe being alive, that's different than being happy, that's different than being fulfilled. Right? So going beyond that to say, "All right. Well, my basic needs are met. I'm not going to starve to death. I'm not going to have a place over my head," if you do, not everybody does. But when we do, then it's a choice, right? When we really wake up to it, then it really is a choice. And of course, it's complicated. Of course, it's incredibly difficult, but this is the work. This is the work of changing, realizing, "Wow. I've been climbing this mountain my whole life only to discover I was on the wrong mountain."
Cali Alpert:
And it often happens from crisis. Right? It often happens when people are pushed into a situation or some dismantling of their job or relationship if we're going to stretch it to other's aspects of life, right?
Scott Shute:
That's true.
Cali Alpert:
It's often not by just a simple conscious choice. It's often because there's a bigger circumstance. It's sort of not just us.
Scott Shute:
That's true.
Cali Alpert:
Do you think?
Scott Shute:
Like everything else, we usually don't learn as much from the happy, great times as we do from crisis or the things that-
Cali Alpert:
Yeah. Isn't that fun? It's funny how it works.
Scott Shute:
Doesn't that sucks?
Cali Alpert:
It's so fun.
Scott Shute:
Yeah. In fact, when I was about 17 or 18, I was a spiritual seeker and I was reading all these stories about the great ones, the perfect ones, the enlightened ones. And it's almost always a guy, because tradition. And I was scared. I was having this conversation with the thing, with the divine. I'm looking around going, "Wow, all these guys suffered. Their lives are terrible." And so I was having this inquiry like, "Can't I learn these lessons through joy and humor and laughter? Can I learn that way?" And I got this really crisp answer. One word, it was listen.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
In other words, life is always giving us these really magical truths. And if we just followed it, we wouldn't have the pain and the suffering, but we ignore it. We ignore the simple truth, like your mom tells you that broccoli's better for you than pizza. "Well, no, I want to eat the pizza," and then whatever, maybe you develop some health condition 40 years later.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
In other words, everybody knows their own mess. But the truth is we're never surprised by anything. The answers have always been there. It's just us waking up to that answer.
Cali Alpert:
That's great, is the operative word listen. I thought you were going to say no.
Scott Shute:
No, listen.
Cali Alpert:
Listen. Yeah.
Scott Shute:
Answer's always there.
Cali Alpert:
Make the space to listen. Right? So you introduced meditation and mindfulness to LinkedIn. Everything that you represent in your world, I just find so powerful and fascinating, trying to merge what has often been a dualistic thing between success, corporate, business, economy, and personal mindfulness and peace and practice.
Scott Shute:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cali Alpert:
So when you first started to introduce these concepts there, it was a little bit of a slow going. A few little people kind of trickled in and then suddenly it blossomed and became a thing. Right?
Scott Shute:
That's right. Well, let me give some context of how this started.
Cali Alpert:
Yeah.
Scott Shute:
So my job at LinkedIn for the first six years I was there, I was the VP of Global Customer Operations. Right? I had this big team, like a thousand people. And at the same time, my parallel track is I've been a seeker. Since I discovered this path that I'm on when I was 13, I developed a practice when I was a teenager. I've been teaching since I was in college. It's a huge part of my life. And also one that I've never ever talked about at work, until I got to LinkedIn. But at LinkedIn, I found it was very open. Our CEO was talking about compassion. He was talking about his own practice using headspace. And I was thinking, "Wow, this is a place where I could bring my own thing." Right? And so I started.
Scott Shute:
I met with my friend who leads our wellness group. I was like, "Hey, do we do anything with meditation here?" We're just chatting. He's like, "Yeah, we do a little bit of stuff," and then he sees this look on my face. He's like, "Wait a minute. Do you do something?" I'm like, "Yeah, I could do something." And he got really excited, because here's this VP who's going to lead a wellness program? Oh, my God. So we both got really excited. And I went back to my desk, and I did absolutely nothing about it for three or four months because I was terrified.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
You see, I grew up on a farm in Kansas. And when I discovered this other thing and I was meditating or whatever we were doing, contemplating with my brother, my parents thought we had joined a cult, and they wanted to get us deprogrammed. Right? So we learned to cover it. We learned to not talk about it. And here I was, 30 something years later. Like really? I'm a leader here. So my inner talk trick is like, "I'm a leader here. What is this going to do for my brand? Are people going to think I'm weak? Are people going to think..." Mind racing.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
And I finally got over all of that nonsense, ego nonsense, and I led my first session. And it was a Thursday afternoon on a 4:30, get this, in the heavenly conference room. And I thought that was apropo. And the first time, there was one dude there. And here we are sitting in chairs, kind of knees to knees. I'm sure that dude is just as terrified as I was. I never saw him again. But the next week, there were three, and then were five, and then turned into regular thing. And then people knew I did it. I'm like the meditation exec now. Right? So people knew that I did it. So I'd get invited to these big things. The CFO would hold a summit with three or 400 finance people, and I would kick it off with the meditation. And I'd walk away with my head shaking, going, "Wow. Wow, things have changed." And so I volunteered for three or four years. I raised my hand to be the executive sponsor of our mindfulness program. We didn't really have one. And then with volunteers, we created this great program.
Scott Shute:
And for me, the tipping point was three years ago, our CEO gave the commencement address at Wharton, very buttoned down, very serious Wharton, and talked about compassion. If you're going to be successful in business, successful in life, be compassionate. And he told his own story. And then he's on TV the next day. And this is all the reporters want to talk about, is compassion in leadership. And I'm thinking, "Okay, it's time." Right? I'd been in my ops role for six years. I was ready for something new. But clearly it was time, the world was ready. At least, me was ready. So I made a pitch to our CEO, head of HR. Because I basically said, "Look, you just told our 16,000 employees that compassion was the most important thing that they could do. I mean, we're not doing anything about it, so let's do something about it." And so with his great support, we created this role three years ago, head of mindfulness and compassion programs.
Cali Alpert:
Going back to what you referenced earlier in the earlier days of introducing these concepts, what were you afraid of?
Scott Shute:
What was I afraid of? Wow. Just like we go back to the safety in society?
Cali Alpert:
Yeah.
Scott Shute:
I guess I was afraid of what people would think about me. I was afraid... That's probably it. That's probably it in different flavors. Right? And at the root level and that core level, when you're afraid of what the society or your group thinks about you, then you start thinking like, "I'm going to get ostracized. I'm going to get isolated. I'm going to feel alone. That's going to be dangerous for me." And of course, none of those things are rationally true because the truth is... Let's be real. One of the reasons I was able to do this job is because I was a very senior person, probably because I'm a White dude, right? I'm a middle-aged White dude who's very senior and has done well. Take away any one of those things, and it makes it harder for someone else to do.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
So I'm very aware that it was like a 1% of a 1% of a 1% allowed this thing to happen.
Cali Alpert:
When you mentioned the CEO that delivered to Wharton, that was one of the thoughts that came to mind is, again, it takes somebody of a certain demographic and stature to make it safe to introduce these five and 6,000-year-old practices.
Scott Shute:
That's right.
Cali Alpert:
And with the fear and apprehension that you just talked about, why do you suppose it is that society's made it so uncomfortable or challenging to feel peaceful and safe about all of this? Why does mindfulness suggest a lack of safety?
Scott Shute:
Sure.
Cali Alpert:
I know it doesn't rationally.
Scott Shute:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cali Alpert:
But what is that tension between these two worlds? It's pretty thick.
Scott Shute:
Sure. Oh, I think it's complicated. And maybe let's dig into a couple areas. One is that some people confuse the practice with religion, right? And religion at work, even for me, is a hard red line.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
Right? It's just not appropriate for any of us to be talking about religion at work.
Cali Alpert:
Yeah.
Scott Shute:
It's just better for everybody. So part of my thing was, okay, how do I bring the practices that we have with as much power in them as possible, but still do it in a totally secular and open way?
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
So that's one line of things that get weird or that give us a little squishiness feeling. There's another part which you kind of touched on earlier. We have this programming that if you want to be successful... "Man, if you want to be a VP, if you want to be a leader, you need to be a go-getter. You need to be..." And we put a label on what you need to be. When I was kind of a junior manager, I mean, in the old days at this company, I looked up and my inner talk trick is, "Wow, do you have to be a..." I won't say it.
Cali Alpert:
Yeah.
Scott Shute:
"Do you have to be a name, a jerk to be a leader here at this place?"
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
Because it seemed like everybody was. But I've since discovered there are companies, there are places, there are leaders who are fantastic people, and they bring their hearts and they bring all of themselves. And what happens is, in the right environment, that makes them even more powerful. It makes them a much better leader. But I think we've been programmed that you have to be this way, this way over here. You know?
Scott Shute:
So that's another part of what's happening. And then there's this other part of like, "Wow, can you really be chilled out? Can you really be this zen spiritual person and be successful at the same time?" This has been my question to myself, my entire life, because I have been this dual person, a seeker since 13 and a leader the whole time. And the answer is, of course you can, but you have to let go of some of these ideals. Ideas, not ideals. You have to hold onto your ideals and let these ideas go. And it's easier than I thought it would be.
Cali Alpert:
I'm so glad to hear that. That's a perfect segue to my next question, which is to dig a little bit deeper into the idea of leadership.
Scott Shute:
Yeah.
Cali Alpert:
Because like you just mentioned, it's the should list of what a leader should be.
Scott Shute:
Yeah.
Cali Alpert:
I've been told this early in my career, not lately, thankfully, certainly not at Omega, completely the opposite here.
Scott Shute:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cali Alpert:
But early on when I was still finding my way and getting promoted up the ranks in television jobs, I remember being told, "Don't hang out with your previous peers. Don't share anything personal. Keep these hard boundaries. Don't show vulnerability." I remember being told that don't care too much.
Scott Shute:
Wow.
Cali Alpert:
Don't be too passionate. I got a lot of that, and it was always very counter to who I am as a human. So I resonate very deeply with this duality. And my question to you would be, how do you propose that leaders now, here in the 21st century and hopefully the zeitgeist, is creating more space for all of these ideas to come to fruition? How do you suggest that leaders hold space where there is a sense of authority and leadership and still vulnerability and compassion?
Scott Shute:
Yeah. There's a lot in there. Let's tease that apart. The word that comes to me is balance. So I remember this moment in the same career journey where all of a sudden, your peer group, you're managing them. Right?
Cali Alpert:
Yes.
Scott Shute:
And so if you go back to balance, no, you can't gossip with them anymore. That has to stop. It has to. And you can't share the stuff that happens in that meeting that you were just in.
Cali Alpert:
Exactly.
Scott Shute:
It can't. That has to stop, because you have to balance the needs of your being a friend with the needs of your job. And so that's a very real thing and that's a hard transition to make. And it does create... I understand why the leaders told you those things, like you don't show vulnerability or you can't care too much, because they're trying to protect you from what comes next. Because there will come a day when you work for a company that's not doing well and you have to lay off 30% of the staff. And if you're not really strong, that becomes excruciating because you may have to lay off one of your friends.
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
Or you make a poor decision and keep one of your friends who's not the one that you should be keeping. Right? So it becomes this balance. You have to wear both sides of this thing. And so that is very present for me. And I think that... Well, maybe that's continuing the thread as you gain in seniority or you gain in your own kind of spiritual development. It's continuing that balance, and continuing kind of ask yourself, what's the grace that holds both of these together?
Cali Alpert:
Right.
Scott Shute:
Right? Because I'm all of it. I'm not just a business guy. I'm not just a personal person. It's all me. Right? And when I tried to hide him or put him in little compartments, we just tear ourselves apart. If we think of it as like, "Oh, I'm going to put on this mask Monday morning at 8:00 and I don't get to take it off till Friday at 6:00 or 5:00," and then I have this other mask, which is that's the real me. No, that's not true. It's both things. And so learning to be all of it.
Cali Alpert:
Do you feel like then the idea of integration in our personal practices helps and gets reflected in a more gentle integration as leaders in our business lives?
Scott Shute:
Oh, absolutely. Everything we do in our personal practice is then on display. Right? So what I believe is that the context of work is just as valid of a spiritual playground or learning center, as a monastery or escaping from life and going backpacking across Europe for two years, or whatever. Work is just as powerful, if not more, to learn all of those spiritual lessons, even the lessons of the heart, especially the lessons of the heart. It's all going to happen at work. Right?
Scott Shute:
And so when we realize that, we're open to that and say, "Oh, well, if I sit on the cushion or I have this prayer practice or whatever I do," of course, as we develop in consciousness, as we grow in our spirituality, all of that is then going to be on display as the person we show up. If we're on stage as a leader, or if we're one of the workers on the front lines, it's all going to show up. How we treat customers, how we sign off our emails, or just how we be when we're actually physically together, it's all on display.
Cali Alpert:
Some would say, in some ways, your work people, your work family is one of the greater mirrors because you don't pick them. I mean, on some level, maybe on the grander way, we do.
Scott Shute:
Sure.
Cali Alpert:
But you don't pick them the way you might pick friends or chosen family or whatever.
Scott Shute:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cali Alpert:
So it's pretty magical how whoever's plopped in front of you, that's what you got.
Scott Shute:
Yeah, that's right. Exactly. And it's a good question. I like the inquiry when I'm really struggling with something and I find myself... You know how you have arguments in your head with somebody who's not right there at the moment?
Cali Alpert:
Maybe just a little.
Scott Shute:
Yeah, of course, it happens to all of us. Then, I kind of step back and I kind of ponder the bigger picture. Let's say reincarnation is real for just a second. What if in between lives, I'm meeting with my teacher? And you're reviewing the past. Here's all the stuff you learned last time. Here's all the stuff you're going to learn in this next life. Oh, what do you want to learn? Oh, X, Y, and Z. Okay. Well, who are you going to take with you to teach you that? And imagine it's like a game of pickup basketball at recess?
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
And you're like, "Oh, I'll take her and him and her." And sometimes, that's not fun. Right? But if you're having this agonizing relationship with your boss or somebody you just can't stand that's just next to you. I find it super helpful to say to myself, "How would I react to this situation if I put it there, if I chose this?" If I chose it, I don't know if this is how life works or not. But if I chose it, how would I respond to this thing right now? And for me, at least, that gives it a higher purpose, I guess. It gives me some space and some distance to step back. And so I had this happen. I had a boss that I didn't like. It used to be that every time I would go have a one-on-one, I would hate it. I would get anxious. I would get all [inaudible 00:24:05].
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
But then I found every time I switched it, I tried to switch it anyway, we'll say try, it's an evolution. But when I would get mad or when I would get anxious or when I would get whatever that wasn't great, I would stop and I would try to smile, and inwardly, I would say, thank you. Because clearly, you are bumping up against one of my values or one of my growth edges that I'm not quite there yet on. So thank you for teaching me whatever this thing. I don't even know what it is yet, but thank you. I'll figure this out as we go.
Cali Alpert:
It's so valuable, the reframe, especially if one is able to reframe before or during these magical learning moments.
Scott Shute:
Yes.
Cali Alpert:
The retrospect rear view mirror tends to be a lot easier.
Scott Shute:
It's a little harder.
Cali Alpert:
And I'm hearing you say that if you look at it as an opportunity, it can create space in that moment instead of tension.
Scott Shute:
That's right. And it's not like you have to agree with the other person or like the other person, but it's just like, "Okay, what if this is a gift? What if it's a gift?"
Cali Alpert:
Is that one of the pieces that makes up sort of the mosaic of what you would consider the 21st century leader to be, if you had your way?
Scott Shute:
Of course. So of the things we talked about, right? I mean, all of it is about awareness.
Cali Alpert:
Right.
Scott Shute:
You could call it consciousness, whatever you want to call it. But as we all individually develop, wow, wouldn't it be great to have a senior leader who is developed, who is conscious, who's also a spiritual being? Look, you don't have to talk about spirituality at work, but what if they had their own great practice and they were evolved? Imagine the changes it makes in the organization.
Cali Alpert:
How does compassion, how does vulnerability, and how does still some version of authority show up for you every day with your colleagues and your employees?
Scott Shute:
Sure. Let me define compassion. That way we can talk about it in a business context. There's lots of good division. This is the one I use, so I can teach to it. So compassion is the capacity for three things. One is awareness of others. The second one is a mindset of wishing the best for them, or a mindset of kindness. And the third is the courage to take action. All right. So let's put this in two context. One is in terms of employees, as a senior leader. So as a senior leader, if I'm really deeply aware of employees and what they're going through, I have a mindset of wishing the best for them, and then the courage to take action on their behalf.
Scott Shute:
Imagine the different policies and practices that I might put into place, or we as a company might put into place if it comes from that place. I want what's best for them, and I know what they are trying to do in their lives. And I'm willing to take action on their behalf, which means that sometimes we're going to take an action that's not great for the company right now in the short term. Right? Instead of... I don't know. Maybe during COVID times, well, I really need to lay off 60% of the staff because we lost 60% of our revenue. But if I try to act in compassionately, maybe there's a situation like, "What if everybody got a 20% pay cut, but we keep everyone and we try to weather it out, because we know that probably our business is going to come back?" I'm making stuff up here, but you see an example.
Cali Alpert:
Yeah. Making your people our currency versus just what the numbers are in paper.
Scott Shute:
Right, right. Any of those choices, and I'm not saying any of the choices are right or wrong, but it starts from this place of compassion. And this is how we all develop individually. We all start off just thinking about ourselves. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, my own success, my own climbing the mountain. But somewhere along the line, every leader... Well, almost every leader realizes... I just thought of one.
Cali Alpert:
I was going to say, are you thinking about anybody in particular?
Scott Shute:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can all probably think of one. Almost every leader realizes that to really be successful, they have to solve for the whole, right?
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
It can't just be about them, it has to be for the whole. But if we all realized that earlier on... Actually what happens is... There's research on this. The research shows that companies that take care of all of their stakeholders versus just their shareholders... So in other words, all the stakeholders are the shareholders, yes, but also employees and customers and the broader context of the environment we live in. These companies who balance those needs are 14 times, that's 1400%, more profitable than the S&P average. So if you want to be crass... This is the way you make money, is to be compassionate. I'm not saying this is why we should do it.
Cali Alpert:
Yeah, I know. It's amazing.
Scott Shute:
I'm just saying, what a knock-on effect, right?
Cali Alpert:
Yeah.
Scott Shute:
We talk about the programming of this is how you're supposed to be a leader. I'm saying we've got it wrong. Not just because it's good for humanity, because if you want to build a successful business, this is how you should do it.
Cali Alpert:
That gives me goosebumps. And it's quantifiable. There's nothing airy-fairy about that.
Scott Shute:
Right.
Cali Alpert:
That is the bottom line of whatever your organization name is to do, is make money, and some care to do good at the same time.
Scott Shute:
Yeah. And if you break it down, it makes sense. So if you think about a relationship, you're in a relationship with anybody, if you were just solving for yourself in everything you said or did, "Me, me, me, me, me," probably the relationship's not going to be that successful. But if you learn to balance the needs of the we, then probably the relationship's going to be more successful. And the same is true of a company's relationship with employees, a company's relationships with its customers. It just makes sense.
Cali Alpert:
I'm hearing a big macro toggle, again, between the power of people in general and leaders having their own practice, where you start tapping into something that's bigger, and how when you migrate that over to a corporation as a collective structure or collective culture, how powerful that can be as a philosophy.
Scott Shute:
Absolutely.
Cali Alpert:
It's really amazing.
Scott Shute:
And it's incredibly powerful when it starts at the top. Now, what I tell people is, you can go for it at the grassroots. If you want to do it, do it. There is nothing stopping you probably, except that voice in your head, like mine. But when it happens at the senior level, it gives such an umbrella of safety.
Cali Alpert:
So let's take that back then to you on your personal trajectory.
Scott Shute:
Yeah.
Cali Alpert:
You're raised on a farm in Kansas. You knew what the idea of spaciousness and stillness were in a palpable way at a very young age. You and your brother found your way to your meditation mindfulness practices as young teens or preteens.
Scott Shute:
Yeah. Yeah.
Cali Alpert:
And maybe didn't have the full validation of your family quite yet. Right?
Scott Shute:
Right.
Cali Alpert:
So how did you find your way to feel safe and validate this desire to seek when you didn't have the larger picture supporting it quite then?
Scott Shute:
35 years of life.
Cali Alpert:
Yeah.
Scott Shute:
I mean, what I would say is that I had a... I don't know what other... This word sounds more than it is, but maybe it is. I had a calling. Right? It is. When I was 17, I was trying to figure out what to do with my life like every 17-year old. And it felt like I was on this path that was like left or right, like a T-junction. And one path was like, I was going to go get an engineering degree and join the business world. But I don't know if you remember the movie Wall Street.
Cali Alpert:
Of course. Sure.
Scott Shute:
And Gordon Gekko.
Cali Alpert:
Oh, sure.
Scott Shute:
And Greed is Good. That was my 17-year-old brain's impression of what corporate America was like. Right? So it felt like I'm going to get this degree and sell my soul to the devil. Right? Or the other path, the other duality, was I was the lead in my high school musical and I had this spiritual bent. I had this Bohemian bent, really Bohemian bent. I was going to move to New York and join Broadway and be a singer. And it really felt like this black or white path. And in contemplation one day, I kind of threw up my hands virtually. I was having the conversation with the thing like, "Dude, I do not know what I'm supposed to do here." And I got the full body yes. I got this knowingness, this deep, deep knowingness. And it came with kind of an intuition and that intuition was, maybe you can change work from the inside out. I'm like, "I'm 17. What am I supposed to do with that?"
Cali Alpert:
Wow.
Scott Shute:
Right? And so I kind of tuck that away. I get my engineering degree, and I'm a good person at work. But I wake up 35 years later or whatever it was, maybe more, I don't know, maybe less, and I'm finally in this position where it's like, "Oh, oh." And finally, my whole life, my whole career did not make full sense until three years ago, until I'm at the time in my late 40s. So yeah, it took 31 or 32 years for me to make all these decisions. Why do this? I was in engineering school in college, hating most of it, but still, the intuition, "No, no, no, no, no. Stay, stay. You're good." And then I'm in these jobs, I worked for a semiconductor company, doing these jobs that were not glorious, and I was thinking about leaving. I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stay, stay. You're good." I'm like, "Really? Really? This is changing the world? Stay, stay." I feel like I'm a dog. Right? "You're good. Just stay there."
Cali Alpert:
Heel, heel, heel.
Scott Shute:
Right. And so what I'm saying is I followed my inner guidance. Even when on the outside, it did not make sense to me. But every job change, every path got me just a little bit closer, just a little bit closer to the center point of what was true.
Cali Alpert:
So let's talk about your book The Full Body Yes.
Scott Shute:
Yes.
Cali Alpert:
Can you talk about what inspired the title?
Scott Shute:
It's about when you get all your stuff out of the way, your physical, mental, emotionally, and you're operating from soul. Right? And those other three things become servants of soul. They're there so that soul can get around and can live your best life through your mind and your emotions and your physical body. But when you're operating a soul, all of them link together, like four o'clocks all hitting noon at the same time and the alarms go off. Right?
Cali Alpert:
So you've talk a lot in the book about being aligned with one's own value systems.
Scott Shute:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cali Alpert:
How does one begin to get in touch with their values in a deeper way?
Scott Shute:
I think there's several exercises I use to help get there, and none of these are perfect. This is something that unfolds a lot, but I can use these as markers along the way. It's like, "Oh, here's how we discover." One of them is if you pick people that you really, really admire, and you think about why you admire them, those are a set of values. Right? "I really admire my friend Tom because he's a great dad. He's super patient with his girls." Okay. So that's a value. Or, pick three people you really dislike, and you think about why is it that I dislike them? It's like, "Oh, well that's probably one of my values too." That's one.
Scott Shute:
If you think about peaks and valleys, the experiences you've had in your life, pick the top three or five experiences you've ever had in your whole life or maybe your career or relationships or you might pick different parts of it, and then ask yourself, "Okay, why did that really speak to me?" That's one of your values. Or your three valleys in your life, "Why was this such a bad experience?" That's one of your values. Or the last time you really got angry. In the last few weeks I've had these situations where... I don't know. Life is conspiring, that's word again, all at once. These things will happen and I step back and like, "Why is this making me so mad?" And I'll realize it's because one of my values has been violated. Right?
Scott Shute:
So these are kind of ways that we can triangulate to get to it. And I always think sometimes you could take a list of a thousand values and kind of whittle them down to your top three or four. You could do that. I think it's much more interesting to have it be applicable to the decision you're trying to make. So if you're thinking about a new job, well, take all the things, in the things that we just talked about, that are relevant to work or a relationship. Take all of the things we just talked about that are relevant to those relationships. Those are your core values for work or relationships or who you are as a person.
Cali Alpert:
So how do you show up in a full-body yes every day? Does your family see it? Do your colleagues or employees see it? What does it look like?
Scott Shute:
I think people see it, not just me, but everybody when we're at our best and we're not at our best. Right? In these past few weeks, to be real, I've had anger issues. My wife got this thermostat for free because some energy saving program in California, and so it's my job to install the thermostat. And I'm pretty good at those things until I'm not. And so I got it working, but I got it working on a day when it was a hundred degrees outside. And so when I put the thermostat on, okay, the air conditioner kicked on, great, it's working, but also the heater kicked on as well. And so I'm standing inside my house and our air conditioner has a hard time keeping up with the heat anyway. And all of a sudden the heater is on. It's blowing this incredibly hot air, and all of a sudden it's 92 degrees inside, and also me. It's kind of a waking dream. I am raging at 92 degrees.
Scott Shute:
And of course my wife and my daughter, they found themselves scarce. Right? They were like disappearing from the room that dad was in. And so of course, I show up in a way that was not the full body yes. But when I show up at my best, I'm great. Look, everybody is, right? It's not just me. But I'm happy. I've got my full resources at play, everything I've ever learned. I'm gracious with people. I'm charming. Hopefully I'm inspiring, just like everyone else is when they are at their best. It's the best version of ourselves when we're there.
Cali Alpert:
What does the near future look like for you in terms of taking these philosophies and this beautiful integration between professional business life and mindfulness, ancient traditions life into the world?
Scott Shute:
Sure.
Cali Alpert:
What's your hope and what does it look like?
Scott Shute:
Ah. So it's two pieces?
Cali Alpert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Shute:
One is I'm leading meditations on Insight Timer and on LinkedIn. Right? Even on formal LinkedIn, you can find me leading meditation sessions several times a week. But I think I'll also expand into places like TikTok. And then-
Cali Alpert:
What does meditation look like on TikTok by the way?
Scott Shute:
We're going to find out. Right? If anybody has great ideas, let me know. And then on the compassion side, this is, again, how you operationalize compassion. I want to work with a handful of senior leaders to do coaching, but also consulting to help their business or their organization become more compassionate. And then, ultimately, I hope to literally write the book on building a compassionate organization. So that's the short term. We'll see what happens. More goodness to come.
Cali Alpert:
Have you ever sat and sort of dreamed up what the world would look like if more people were merging these two sides?
Scott Shute:
If we, as a society, as a world, get this right. On the mindfulness side, people develop. They develop unconsciousness, which means that they are... What's the right word? They're more of their full body yes. They're more of their best selves. They're happier. They're more content. They're living saner lives. They're just better versions of themselves. And if companies get this right, it means that their work is providing inspiration to the world. It means that they're treating their employees with respect, which means that there's more wholeness that happens with employees. That work can be part of the healing, instead of part of the trauma that happens with the 3.5 billion people in the workforce. It means that there's more trust with customers and employees, which means there's less fraud, which means that there's less pick all the bad things that happen in the world. And in fact, while we're there at the world level, look at all the headlines that exist today as you open your news browser or whatever. All of the bad things, probably a lot of them, are made better when we are all compassionate.
Cali Alpert:
So finally, I have three questions I like to ask every guest. First one, I'd like to grant you one wish for our listeners, what would it be?
Scott Shute:
The word that popped is love. Right? So just to feel that, to feel love, to be loved, and to love unconditionally.
Cali Alpert:
What is something you wish for yourself?
Scott Shute:
Same. Same thing. Yeah. And I wish Oprah would call. The book's been out for a few months. Still, she hasn't called. I don't know why. But if you know Oprah, give her a copy of The Full Body Yes.
Cali Alpert:
Do you want to share your phone number on this podcast?
Scott Shute:
Sure, where you can find me.
Cali Alpert:
She can find you.
Scott Shute:
She knows where I am.
Cali Alpert:
We will make sure we can help her find you.
Scott Shute:
She knows where I am.
Cali Alpert:
And finally, what is the most important offering you'd like listeners to take away from our conversation today?
Scott Shute:
Ooh. Maybe it's in this last two questions. Look, all of this. I think our whole purpose here in this planet is to learn how to give and receive love. That's it. That's it. No matter what we choose to do with our lives, whether we're a full-time mom or a full-time executive or whatever our role is in this world, no matter what the context, if we're in a monastery or wherever we are, it's all about learning to give and receive love. That's it.
Cali Alpert:
Scott, thank you so much for visiting with me today and sharing this conversation. If our listeners would like to learn more about you, where can they find you?
Scott Shute:
Sure. You can find me at scottshute.com or thefullbodyyes.com, they go to the same place. You can follow me on LinkedIn. You can see me on Insight Timer, lots of places. And also don't be a stranger. Right? On my website, you can find places to reach out to me. I love to hear from people. If there's something that resonated with you or a story from the book that resonated with you, please reach out. I'd love to hear from you.
Cali Alpert:
Thank you so much. Such a pleasure.
Scott Shute:
Glad to be here.
Cali Alpert:
Thanks for dropping in with Omega Institute. If you like what you hear, tell your friends and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps new users find us.
Cali Alpert:
Dropping In is made possible in part by the support of Omega members. To learn more, visit eomega.org/membership and check out our many online learning opportunities. Feature your favorite teachers and thought leaders at eomega.org/onlinelearning.
Cali Alpert:
I'm Cali Alpert, producer and host of Dropping In. The music and mix are by Scott Mueller. Thanks for dropping in.