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Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN
Church Is Messy, 05-20-2026 Ep144
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Svea: Good morning, Rick. We're back with Church Is Messy, and we're winding down this 1 Corinthians series.
Rick: Yeah, we're almost to the end. It's been a while. We've got two more weekends. Uh-huh. Uh, but, uh, yeah. I've enjoyed it, but I am ready to cross the finish line at the same time. Sure. I'm not gonna tell anybody what it is, but there is a sermon to wrap up this series at the very end.
I've never heard anybody deliver a sermon like this before and it could go well, or it could blow up in my face. Oh, well- So we'll just have to see ... that sounds exciting. Yeah.
Svea: What do you anticipate?
Rick: I think it'll go well. I think it'll go well. If it's heard paired up with the sermon that's coming next this weekend, if it's seen like the other side of the same coin, I think people will be like, "Yeah, that's great.
Thank you." Otherwise, I don't know, man. Mm-hmm. It could be... It... Anything could be misunderstood. And if Jesus was misunderstood, certainly I could be misunderstood.
Svea: All right. Well, we'll stay tuned for that. That sounds exciting. But
Rick: I'm ready to roll the dice. I'm ready- ... I'm ready to go for it. All
Svea: right.
Well, I admire your bravery. Thank you. It sounds like you're running after the prize. I,
Rick: I am a brave person. 3, 2, 1,
Svea: go!
You are able to accept a compliment out of thin air, aren't you?
Rick: So, you know, we have not... yes. We're a little... I'm a little punchy this morning, and you know, I didn't sleep well- Uh-oh ... last night, so I've got a little bit of, a little bit of the spice, a little bit of the kick. So anything
Svea: could happen today.
Any-
Rick: anything could happen. But let me ask you, do you remember our, uh, theme verse? We haven't talked about it a lot in the last few weeks, so we'll be reprising that-
Svea: Uh-huh ...
Rick: uh, this coming weekend. But from 1 Corinthians 16, "Be on your guard."
Svea: Yeah. "
Rick: Be courageous. Be strong. Stand firm in the faith, and do everything in love."
All right. So we should- Are you
Svea: speaking this directly to me, like this is the head space I should be in right now this morning? I just wish you'd try. Yeah.
Rick: You
Svea: are ready, aren't you? No, but, uh,
Rick: you know what? I don't know that I am courageous, but I want to be, and it is a call for every, uh, follower of Jesus to be courageous.
And so, uh, it's good to aim at that.
Svea: I do love that verse, all jokes aside. Yeah. I think there is incredible wisdom in there, and just focusing on each of those phrases could give you a whole strategy for living more like Jesus today.
Rick: Oh, we... I think we could build a sermon series just on- Just on those two verses.
On that one verse. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, what is it, what i- you know, anytime you're in a situation and you're thinking to yourself, "Where is bravery required of me right now?" "And why is it required? And what is it that scares me? And what truth do I need to remember? And what resources are available to me to dip into the courage that is available to me in Christ?"
Right? And from the foundation of the gospel, and then to... But w- and I skipped the first one, to, to stand firm. Where am I likely to slip? Where, what are some things going on around me or in front of me that might cause me to trip? Or what, what are some forces at play that might wanna knock me off my feet?
I was like, these are just, these are really, really good... I think these are really good questions.
Svea: That, that is really good. That actually kind of blends with a little bit of where I was thinking we would start with- Okay ... talking about this last weekend's material, in that I think y- what you just brought out, and what I was thinking about from this last weekend with Paul running so as to get the prize.
Yes. And he clearly knew what the prize was- Yes ... for him. In order for us to know what our mission is- Mm-hmm ... what we're running after, and in order for us to evaluate, like, where are these areas where I need to be brave, where I need to stand firm, all of these kind of challenges, it requires a certain amount of self-awareness and introspection.
So can I ask you-
...
Svea: How do you go about actually doing that? Do you ever set aside some time just to be intentional about introspection and, and considering these things? Like, more than just as a fleeting thought?
Rick: Yes. So there, there are times that, uh, I like to set aside, uh, typically in the morning that I'm asking myself these kinds of questions.
Typically, uh, it's a normal part of my, of my own devotional time. But I also find myself embracing it as a habit that pops up without planning, right? Okay. Same on that. It's an unscheduled, it's an unscheduled habit where, uh, I'm facing something and, or there's a, there's a leadership challenge, or there's decisions that, that need to be made, or there's something that causes me to feel tired.
And that's, for me, that's a really important one. I find a lot of wisdom, I, again, I don't know who said it first. Was it Vince Lombardi? Was it, uh, General Patton? Somebody said, "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." Mm. And I know h- I know the ditches That run parallel to the track that I'm on. You, you know, my, my favorite Scottish expression, "For every mile of road, there's two miles of ditch."
And- It's so good ... and, and so one- w- my ditch is when I feel tired when I start to lose courage, or I feel like I'm, I don't have enough strength or enough gas in the tank when I'm prone to throw myself a pity party, and, you know, I don't know if everybody does that, but, you know, I have that tendency to, is I wanna escape.
And I want to retreat to things that give me this fake, this false cocoon- ... of escape from whatever it is that's wearing me out or stressing me out or... You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And so I just, I need this habit of, okay, what's going on? What's true? Why, okay, I recognize this is what I'm doing.
Now, what am I g- how am I gonna respond to it?
music: Mm-hmm.
Rick: It might require more guts than I feel like I have right now. It might require more strength than I feel like I have right now, but I'm not alone. And I've got... There are two powerful things. One powerful reality, number one is the Holy Spirit of God who is with me and in me.
The Holy Spirit of God is with you and in you. And so I'm not alone. But I also have other people who are trying to run the same race, who love God and who love me, and I can be real with them. And I o- I find strength from the people around me.
It's really, really powerful.
Svea: Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, the people around us- Mm-hmm
the relationships that we have with other followers of Jesus is one of the most essential elements of- Mm-hmm ... our growth and our intentionality- ... in our discipleship. There's, there's incredible power in having other people that can speak truth into us, that can encourage us when we're down, that can, uh, help us gain clarity on where we're trying to head.
Mm. Yeah.
Rick: You and I got to sit down in a room with some other pastors yesterday. Mm-hmm. Uh, listened to a presentation by the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, W- Walter Kim. Our church is a part of that organization. I'll just refer to it as NAE for short. Uh, part of what came up in that discussion was a commitment to human flourishing and thriving, and one of the pastors who was there, a friend of mine, Cal Robinson, the pastor of, uh, Wooddale Church, referred to a study that's coming out of Harvard- Mm-hmm
where Harvard scientists are, are talking about that we haven't done enough to emphasize love, and that love is an incredible force that makes us better. When, when other people who, they love us, they're with us, they're for us, it makes us better people in really measurable ways. In physical health, emotional health, all kinds, all kinds of things.
And so that's been just bouncing around my brain yesterday since we, we talked about that. So now that we're having this conversation, I, I don't know about you, but I see an immediate bridge between these two things. We were talking about courage. Well, uh, we're talking about being able to stand strong.
We're trying to, talking about being able to s- to stand on our feet, and these things are required if we're gonna move forward in this life that we've been called to in Christ and really pursue the prize. And we need the community of God's people around us. We are loving them, and they are loving us. And this, we had, we just gotta break up with th- any sort of individualistic tendencies- that might push us towards thinking we're just kind of on our own or, or isolated. The love is an indispensable key of everything- ... to what we're talking about. And I hope I'm not being obtuse or vague or nebulous or whatever the right word is, but in my head, I see a connection between all this.
Yeah. Do I sound crazy? Yeah. Well,
Svea: there is an essential aspect- Yeah ... to, to community and the- Mm-hmm ... the love that expresses the- Yeah ... the acceptance and the I want- Mm-hmm ... what's best for you kind of nature- That's right ... of Christian love. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, let's, let's look in from First Corinthians 9- Okay
and the passage that you preached through this past weekend. Um, I'm gonna jump kind of around from what I was planning to talk about, but I loved the way that you entered the power of having someone share something with you by talking about your experience with becoming hooked on hunting. And how, you know, it wasn't the- Yeah
billions of dollars spent on advertising- Yeah ... or all of the gear that you've walked by for years- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... or shows that you've watched on TV. It was when someone invited you to go hunting and- Mm-hmm ... and you got to experience it in connection with a friend.
Rick: Yeah. There's more to that story, obviously, and if I talk about that a little bit more, I think a lot of folks can draw parallels to how this can apply to any, any area of life.
Whenever we try something new, we- we're typically bad at it.
And I was very bad at it, and I made the kind of mistakes that 12, 13-year-old boys make when- ... they're going out hunting for the, for the first time. And my friend was very patient with me in that and would share some techniques with me, share with me what he knew and made it a safe place to mess up and be dumb and learn without feeling bad about myself.
Mm. Without feeling self-conscious. That was a real, it was a real gift. And so no doubt going hunting by himself would've been way more fun than having to deal with some of my knuckleheaded stuff. But it was... i, I'm just a tremendous, uh, beneficiary of his kindness, of his patience, uh, of his knowledge and him.
It all started with an invitation, "Hey, come try this with me."
Svea: Yeah. So Paul's theme in- Mm-hmm ... 1 Corinthians 9 is that he's all about going after telling people about Jesus- Yes ... and wanting people- Mm-hmm ... to see and understand and embrace the gospel. And this- So what kind of- ... this
Rick: whole incredible life that comes with it, yeah.
Yeah,
Svea: yeah. So what kind of parallels do you see in that from what you experienced in your introduction to hunting and, uh, and the power excuse me, in- It
Rick: sounded like a wolf was coming out. The
Svea: power. I'm I just wanna put you in that hunting mindset here. Yeah. What, what parallels do you see in, in the power of talking about Jesus with other people in the way that you experienced your introduction and, and y- your, uh, your newfound love for hunting?
Rick: When we invite somebody into our world to experience something with us if we are a kind and loving person, we're not expecting them to go at our speed. We're willing to downshift and go at their speed.
And that's what my friend did for me. And if th- let's say, so yeah, let's say you have somebody that's a friend of yours and this friend is willing to come to church with you, just kinda not sure what, what she thinks about spiritual stuff, but she's asking questions and she's curious, and she really appreciates your friendship.
And, and, and it's served to pique her curiosity, and so, she decides she's gonna, she's gonna come with you. And so you're gonna, you're gonna probably come to the service that's more convenient for her. If you're typically a, a Sunday morning person, but man, Saturday night just works better, you're probably gonna shift and go to the Saturday night service, right?
Mm-hmm. Or if you're a Saturday night service person and, you know, the 10:30 service is best, well, you're just gonna pivot and because you care about your friend. And so y- You're gonna come into the, to the service together, and anything that she might have questions about, you're just happy to explain it.
You're not annoyed at, that she doesn't get it, you know? But here's the deal. You're really interested in what her experience is like. And so maybe you're going to lunch afterwards, or maybe you're sitting down having coffee or something afterwards, and you're just like I'm curious to know, what was today, what was today like for you?
What did, what did you think about what those people had to say on the stage?" Mm-hmm. You know? That, that, that kind of stuff. And so you're gonna downshift, and you're gonna go at your friend's speed because you value getting to walk this journey together, and you want her to see and know some of the things that you've experienced, ultimately the life that's waiting for everyone who trusts in Christ.
Mm-hmm. So that's just a kind of a, a little bit. There's a whole lot more we could talk about.
Svea: You know, as you're saying that- ... that doesn't sound intimidating at all. That sounds like just a fun thing, to invite a friend to come to church and just- Mm-hmm ... experience something that I love- Yeah ... that I wanna be able to share with her.
Um, there's nothing in that that causes me great anxiety, but I will admit, I am one of those people- Mm ... who, when I start hearing sermons on evangelism, there is a little part of me that tenses up, and I start to feel guilty, like maybe I'm not doing it enough- Yeah ... or I don't have, um, the same level of passion and drive to get out there and tell everyone I know about Jesus that I feel like I wish I did.
Mm-hmm. Um, and it can kind of cause some negative feelings. But I appreciate in what you just brought out, that's a way of sharing faith with people- ... that doesn't have to trigger those negative feelings.
Rick: I- listen, what you're talking about, it makes perfect sense to me. I grew up in a particular kind of church culture that put a lot of pressure on doing this in a way that for introverts like me, it, it was way uncomfortable.
Mm. I mean, going and knocking on strangers' doors and trying to in, trying to start conversations with people you've never met before and d- and trying to, trying to communicate to someone that in a 15-minute conversation they're ready to make a life-changing decision, that just, all of that just feels gross to me.
Yeah, yeah. And I don't like that. And, and listen, some people might be able to do that, and that's great. Have at it. We're all invited and called by Christ to be his, not just invited, but we are called, we are made his ambassadors, and we represent him where we are. And the particular ways that you do that might be different than some of the particular ways that I do that.
Like, how many people who are followers of Jesus are gonna stand up on a stage with a microphone and talk about the Bible to people? Well, we can't all do it the same. I think that there is tremendous, uh, power and significance in folks who in their everyday life are sharing with people who they're up close and personal with not as like an agenda, but as a natural outflow- of who they are. Mm-hmm. And it's not about trying to do hard sales or seal the deal or get somebody to make a decision. It is about, "Hey, this is something that's meaningful to me, and I wanna share it with you because I love you." And so what you just talked about, what you just said, hey, that sound doesn't sound super intimidating, that sounds natural, that sounds like something that I could do, and it would e- you even used the word fun.
If anyone has this instant reaction of tensing up like you just talked about, they should come to the witness class-
music: Yeah ...
Rick: that we're gonna do because I, 'cause I want to, I wanna offer a different vision. I wanna offer I- maybe a different definition of what this, what this word means to be an ambassador or to be a witness.
Svea: Yeah, yeah. Well, let's come back to the, a shameless plug for the witness class in a minute, but- Okay ... I wanna just focus on that word witness for a minute. Okay. Because when Jesus issued what we call the great commission, that was the word He used, that He invited His disciples to go out and be His witnesses.
And when we think about the role of a witness, like in a courtroom-
...
Svea: The role of the witness is simply to tell what they know. Yeah. To share their story. Mm-hmm. To answer questions about their own experience.
Rick: This is what I saw, this is what happened to me.
Svea: Yeah. And, and that's what Jesus asks us to do.
Mm-hmm. You know, just, just be willing to share your story with people and talk about what you've experienced and what you know, and that's so much less intimidating than I think what some of us get in our heads of, of, "I have to go out and convince people, or argue them into faith- I appreciate you- ... or debate them"
Rick: saying that because that really is the mantra that I was, that I was raised with, and I wanna reject that. And I think some folks who've been around for a while, they might recall me saying something like this, "It's not my job to convince you. It is my job to share with you what convinced me." "But i- I'm not in charge of your decisions.
I'm not in charge of your beliefs. Uh, I'm responsible for the kind of friend that I am to you. I'm responsible for the kind of ambassador of Jesus I am to you. I'm responsible to share what convinced me. I'm responsible to live in such a way that you see the gospel in me in a way that's compelling, and you also hear it in a way that's, that's understandable.
But what you do with it, I honor you as a real human being who gets to make that decision." Mm-hmm. "But there's, but I want, I want the best for you 'cause I love you."
Svea: So when we put that mindset- Mm-hmm ... in the context of 1 Corinthians 9 with Paul running after- Yes ... the prize- Yes ... and he knew what he was about- Mm-hmm
and he knew his goal talk a little bit about where he's saying, "I, you know, I'm singularly focused on this." Mm-hmm. "And because of that, I'm gonna become all things to all people."
You know, "To tho- those under the law- Mm-hmm ... I'm going to be as if under the law." Mm-hmm. "To the weak I became weak," you know?
Mm-hmm. That kind of mentality- ... um, so as to win some people. Can you just riff a little bit on that, um, as we're seeking to be truly good witnesses for people in a way that, uh, we can connect with them where they are?
Rick: Let me tell you about a man that I know and have tremendous respect for.
His name is Matthew Matai. He's a pastor in southern India. Uh, I got to meet him and spend some time with him, uh, a number of years ago. Um, he's born and raised in, in the United States from a, Indian heritage, the nation of India. Highly educated, making lots of money in the computer industry, uh, here.
Decided that he wanted to cash out and go to India and plant a church and become a pastor. He, because of his family heritage, there's a particular dialect there. So many different languages that are spoken- Mm ... um, in India. And man, do I have tremendous respect for folks who are able to, uh, live in a world where they have to speak multiple languages.
Yeah. That is... I think it cultivates a kind of profound sense of empathy and hospitality that maybe I miss out on. Uh, anyway, I'm digressing. So he goes back, and he picks the place that he wants to go, and everything seems great, and, and he and his family speak the language. And I can't remember the details that led him to the place where he thought this just is not it.
I need to go to a place where there is less access to the gospel." So he moved to a more southerly region in India to a place where he did not know the language, and he had to learn a new language. And the place that he moved to was economically disadvantaged, unlike the place where he thought he was gonna be.
Matthew Matai was lactose intolerant- ... so he had no tolerance for milk, and he wasn't gonna stand for it. That's a Seinfeld reference. And, uh, he was sitting on the dirt floor of a hut in a Hindu village. No, no followers of Jesus anywhere. There's nobody in the church. And a woman served him warm milk-
Svea: Ooh.
Rick: from a cow- Uh-oh ... that she had just, just milked. Oh. And you know what he did?
Svea: He drank that milk.
Rick: He drank that milk.
Svea: Uh-huh.
Rick: Because it was so important to him to honor her, to receive her hospitality, to connect with her, and to build- And to build meaningful relationships. Fast-forward to today there's not just a church with many people who attend and have found a new life in Christ.
There are dozens and dozens of churches with thousands of people who have been baptized and become followers of Christ, and an army of pastors- Wow ... who have been raised up- Wow ... and discipled by him, and who go off to college and study, and then come back and are res- and then get to lead churches and start churches in new villages.
And oh, my goodness, and it, it just started with a guy who's like, "Listen, there you are. Now, here I am. There you are." And he was... He, he said, he said no to living in the United States to moving to a more challenging country. Said no to living in a nicer area. Went to a more economically disadvantaged area surrounded by poverty, had to learn a new language, and was happy to say no to himself so he could say yes to other people, where he's sitting on the dirt floor of a hut drinking warm milk.
Uh-huh. And he's lactose intolerant. Wow. I was like, I think that's the kind of thing where Paul would be like, "You get it." I think that's the kind of thing that Jesus looks down and He's just beaming with joy over, you are discovering the joy of loving other people in the way that I've loved you.
Svea: Yeah.
Rick: It is... That's... Have I, have I answered the question? Like, that- Well, okay,
Svea: you have. You have. Yeah. And it's a great story. Yeah. And it's the kind of story that someone like my dear husband, Steve, who has a great passion for the power in cross-cultural missions- Yeah ... is just like, "Woo-hoo." Yeah. And, and- Yeah
that's great. But can I just push on it a little bit? Because it also evokes, I think, for those of us who feel like- Mm-hmm ... "Oh, I'm still... See, you just proved I'm not good enough in how I'm sharing my faith with this great story of this guy who goes out of his comfort zone to learn a new language and to put himself in an uncomfortable position."
Can you talk a little bit about- Yeah ... just how do we do this in a way that's-
Rick: Comparison is the thief of joy. Sure. Don't compare yourself to Matthew Matai, but let that story be illustrative of ways that this guy was willing to say no to himself so he could say yes to others. Where are some ways that you can say no to yourself?
Yeah, I mean- So you can say yes- ... how can we just do
Svea: this on an ordinary Wednesday in our workplace, in our neighborhood?
Rick: Who is somebody that you could just treat as more important than you, and they have a need that you could address? It could be super tiny. Maybe you're sitting in the, in the workroom and everybody's kinda wrapping up, uh, their, their lunch, and you just pick up the trash of other people and you go throw it away for them.
Mm-hmm. It can be tiny. It, it- it's the, the grandeur of it, the, the, the size of it the spectacular nature of it or whatever. I don't know what the right word is to use for it. It doesn't determine the meaningfulness of it. It's about, here's an opportunity for you to, uh, demonstrate love to someone else and to treat them as more important than you.
Were you will- are you willing to do that? Yeah. It could just be that kind of, just be that kind of person. And don't worry about comparing it to, to other people, but just start treating other people as more important than yourself. And if you care about that, and if you, if you're like, "All right, I wanna be a there you are, not a here I am person."
I am naturally a here I am person. Like, that is just how I'm, that's how I'm wired. I don't know if everybody's born that way, but I was born that way, and by the grace of God, I'm not as bad as I could be- ... in that. You know? But if you start to think, I wanna notice other people," and you start thinking about that, and you pray, say, "God, help me to notice other people.
Help me to see opportunities- Mm ... where I can demonstrate to other people that they are seen and they're loved- Mm-hmm ... and I ca- I just care about them," I promise you God's gonna answer that prayer.
Svea: Yeah. I was thinking that. That's a powerful prayer to pray- Mm ... because you do know you're going to see some answers- Mm
to that one.
music: Yeah.
Svea: Yeah. Very good. I like that framework that you offered with pray, prepare, and participate. Mm-hmm. And you gave some helpful next steps- Okay ... in each of those areas. Um, do you wanna just recap that a little bit? 'Cause I think that does help us wrap our mind around- Sure ... kind of where to go from here.
Rick: Oh, yeah. For, just start here. Who's someone that you know and that you care about that they don't know Jesus? Just start praying for them by name. So if you got somebody you love, somebody you care about, Bob out there, he doesn't know Jesus, just, "God, I wanna pray for Bob, and I, I'd love for Bob to come to know, know you, and, and I don't know how you wanna use me in that, but however you wanna use me, I'm open.
I just, God, I'm so grateful for..." Then you list off the things you're grateful for, and say, "I want Bob to have these things, too, 'cause I care about Bob. God, so would you, however you wanna use me, whatever you wanna do, but God, I'm just, I care about Bob and would you, would you work in such a way that he can see Jesus in a way that's undeniably clear?
And I'd love to be a part of it." Mm-hmm. Just start praying. Just start praying for that person that you care about. And no one wants to be in a position where they don't feel prepared to do something that they're inspired to do. You don't know, you don't even know how to begin to do something that you're inspired to, and so here's your shameless plug- Yeah
time to, to come to the, to the Witness class. And listen, just, just come if you're bored. You just come if you wanna hang out with people, 'cause things kinda wind down during the summer, and this is a great chance to, to hang out and have a good time, and then benefit by seeing a clearer, maybe better vision for how to engage this.
Svea: Yeah. Well, and remember, it's called the Witness Practice for a reason. Yeah. Because this is not gonna be an experience that's gonna train you to go shout with a megaphone on street corners downtown in Rochester. Mm-hmm. This is not going to be how to argue someone into the faith. No. This is not going to be, you know, making you wildly out of your comfort zone, doing something that you don't feel is- Mm
appropriate or effective. Rather, this is gonna be an experience to really gain skills in just talking about our faith in, in, in sharing with other people what Jesus means to us, and why we might want that for them, too. Yeah. Absolutely. And, and I think we're gonna have just a lovely time doing it. We're gonna meet in the, the Common Grounds Cafe in, uh, four evenings- Mm-hmm
over the summer, and, um, get to watch some great videos- Mm ... that are produced by Practicing the Way. Also, plug for anyone who's done the Practicing the Way classes be- in the past, this is the ninth and final practice class. So- Okay ... no one here at Autumn Ridge has yet gotten to do this one, and so- Gotta catch 'em all
if you've done other, come and, come and get this one in your collection as well.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: But, uh, but it'll be that kind of familiar format. And,
Rick: you know, for everyone who does it, we're gonna have a tattoo booth in the lobby, and they can get a tattoo insignia of each of the nine classes. Yeah. It, it'll be great.
Rick, Rick
Svea: will be, uh- That's right ... will be manning that station. That's right. Yeah. I'm
Rick: looking forward to that. Uh, if you, if you don't wanna do a tattoo, we'll have, what, merit badges people can wear to church?
Svea: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. We could do, like, star charts. With, like, okay, you- Yeah ... you've accomplished all of your goals.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: No, no, we, we jest. But no, I think it'll be a lovely thing to do- Mm ... with other people, even if you're just, like you said, just looking for-
Rick: Yeah ...
Svea: for a summer experience.
Rick: Yesterday, we were talking about Tough Mudder, and, uh, I think you'd love to ru- you like to run. I do. So you might- Yeah, I- ... enjoy doing a Tough Mudder
think that would be fun. I did one about 15 years ago, and when you cross the finish line, if you want, they give you a free tattoo. Do they really? I did not do it. I, I just, I, I didn't like the logo enough to wanna make it permanently- No ... uh, put on, put on my body. But yeah, it's a little tangent related to running a race.
Svea: Yeah, it's true. You, you- And senseless tattoos. That was a, a- A feeble attempt to reconnect us to- There we go. Yeah ... 1 Corinthians 9. Well, yeah I think this topic of sharing our faith is one that is so important- Mm-hmm ... because it is one of the things that- Mm-hmm ... Jesus directly commands us to do.
Mm-hmm. And I think it's one of the devil's greatest tricks to attach anxiety or guilt or- Right ... any kind of negative feelings with it 'cause, of course, wouldn't he want us to stop, he would want to stop us from doing that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But when we really see what it is that Jesus is asking of us- Mm-hmm
and the ways that we can share our faith in just natural ways, it's just a fun, beautiful thing.
Rick: Absolutely. So the third P was participate, and you don't have to be out there on, on your own. You can participate collectively with y- with your church family. Something that I did not mention this weekend that people could do, and I've been thinking about this. Uh, this was really the kind of the subject of my prayer of gratitude on Sunday morning, is you could participate on the kids ministry team. Uh, w- the kids that, that grew up in the church, you know one of the reasons that they're convinced, a big reason they're convinced that God loves them is because adults who love them at church left no room for doubt.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that's powerful. And I would encourage you to, to consider that. It's a great way it's, it's a great way to serve at church. It's a great way to, to meet friends. It's a great way to be involved in a meaningful, uh, impact. Uh, this is a time, uh, in, in, in the year when people scatter and go on vacations, and so it, it really is a t- a tremendous help.
But I think you might find it is a great benefit that help kids believe that God loves them because you left no room for doubt that you love them, too.
Svea: Yeah. No, you're so- Mm-hmm ... so right. I can still see Mrs. Shively- Mm-hmm ... is one of my, uh, Sunday school teachers- Yeah ... from, from long, long, long ago-
music: Mm-hmm
Svea: that, uh, was one of the first people that really helped me understand that God loves me.
music: Yeah.
Svea: And in large part because of the way that I felt like she loved me. Yeah. And she loved me with the way that, okay, I can connect with that. Yeah. And if you're telling me God loves me, I believe you.
Rick: Yeah.
Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I've quoted him, uh, numerous times. His name was Dr. Jerry Winser, a preaching professor at my college, and he would say that God's love often has human fingerprints.
music: Mm-hmm. I love that.
Rick: It stuck with me for a long time, for about 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I wanna be those, I wanna be those fingerprints.
Svea: Well, good stuff. Well, we've got lots of opportunities here over the summer for people to participate in this, to prepare. The call to pray is just a great thing for us to begin with. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, maybe this is the, uh, the call now to, uh, to spend a little bit of time in that kind of self-introspection of, you know, what, what do you feel like God is calling you to do right now, and which of these steps might be a great next step for you?
Rick: I love it, and we can just keep running together.