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The Wellness Docket is a podcast for lawyers and legal professionals ready to prioritize their mental health. Through honest conversations with guests from inside and outside the legal world, we explore burnout, balance, and the pressures of practice—creating space for reflection, recovery, and resilience in the profession. This is a space where your wellness is always on the docket.
Tim: [00:00:02] Okay, so I'd like to welcome Julia Belanger to the wellness docket. Julia is a freshly called New Brunswick lawyer, I believe yesterday. Right?
Julia: [00:00:13] Uh, no on Monday? Yes.
Tim: [00:00:14] Monday. Okay. Uh, who articled at the New Brunswick Court of Appeal. Uh, she's a mother of four, an access to justice advocate and a mental health and wellness champion in the legal profession. During her articling year, her mother passed away suddenly this past February 2026, and she chose to share her grief publicly because she believes that raw honesty is one of the ways we end stigma surrounding mental health struggles in the profession. She's joined Trio Law offices as an associate and is pursuing a master's in interdisciplinary studies at the at UNB, uh, where her thesis will explore mental health and wellness in the legal profession as an access to justice issue. So welcome, Julia. Um, thanks for joining me today.
Julia: [00:01:01] Yeah. Thank you for having me.
Tim: [00:01:03] And what I wanted to kind of start off with is, first of all, congratulations on your call to the bar. Can you tell me a little bit about kind of what this checkpoint and what this achievement means to you, especially for everything that you've gone through?
Julia: [00:01:20] Yeah. Um, it's a, it's a big moment. It was a big culmination of a lot of years, like some big things we had to do to get here. And even like Monday after everything, like I had been invited to like go celebrate and stuff. But I had family here and we honestly came back and I sat down and I'm like, I am tired, I am done, and I, I'm just gonna rest the rest of the day because it was just such a big, such a big thing, such a, like, I can take a breath now. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to the next, like the next chapter. But it was it was a big deal. And I'm really happy to be here.
Tim: [00:02:03] Oh that's amazing. And so tell me a little bit about what the last year has kind of taught you. First of all, you clerked at the Court of Appeal. Um, and we'll get into more of your story about, um, your mother's passing in a minute, but I'm wondering just overall kind of what your reflections are on that experience, obviously without you can't give specific stories, but, but what kind of things, you know, what's your takeaway from, from your time doing that clerkship, uh, over the last year?
Julia: [00:02:32] Yeah, there's definitely a few things. Um, one is just recognizing again, the humanity of the law. Like at all levels, right? I think, I think sometimes there's a mystery like around judges and judges chambers. And, you know, there's like that kind of disconnect that needs to be there, you know, like the independence of the judiciary. But I also think I got to have a really a small glimpse of the humanity behind everyone who's working in the justice system, and everyone who's working towards the same goal of ensuring that our legal system functions properly. And I really it was really great to have that kind of perspective and also seeing that where things aren't working in the justice system, that there's awareness and advocacy at, or maybe advocacy is the wrong word when it comes to judges, but there's people who want to see change, you know, and everywhere in the justice system. And we want to work together and, and make it better. So I think for me, kind of seeing that playing out really, really helped me see the importance of, of our legal system here and, and how and how well it functions, even when it's not perfect, I think is a big one for me.
Tim: [00:03:55] It's kind of like the Winston Churchill quote, that it's about democracy. It's the best form of government except for all the others. Right? And, um, you know, when you think about it, you're like, well, yes, there are a lot of faults there, but it does work mostly pretty well. Right. Like it does serve people as best as possible given the circumstances.
Julia: [00:04:17] And people want it to work well. You know, like all of the actors in our system, they want it to function. It's not like we have, um, a disconnect where the public is one thing and then the legal system is another. Like it's like, no, we need to where things are working, let's make this work better and where things aren't working, let's see how we can change it to make it work. Like there's all of those conversations all the time. And I think that is really great. It gives me a lot of confidence that we're moving in the right direction, where things aren't working very well. And it gives me a lot of confidence that things are things are a lot better than sometimes the media wants to, to make it out to be kind of thing. So I think I have a big respect for the judicial process and, and the decision making process now that I didn't have. Well, I mean, I did before, but now that I've seen it, I have like a, a like a, a different view, like a stronger, uh, confidence, I guess, than when it was more mysterious.
Tim: [00:05:19] Is that the thing that kind of surprised you the most, or was there anything else that you can think of that really, um, that you thought is surprising about, about the system?
Julia: [00:05:30] I would say that's probably the biggest takeaway that I had. Like, it's not just we get a case, we make a decision, we get, there's like, it is an entire process, an entire system that's functioning together. And I, I think, yeah, that's probably what was most surprising. It's, it's not case by case. It's like, this is the system and we're working to, to do our best in this system. And I liked that kind of experience.
Tim: [00:06:01] And so tell me a little bit about, um, you had talked about, you know, in your posts that I've seen online about being kind of a mental health advocate. Tell me a little bit about where that comes from and what kind of made that a passion of yours.
Julia: [00:06:16] Sure. Yeah. So my intention of coming into law, uh, overall was that I think our society can be healthier and I think we can do things in a way that helps people, um, in some of the hardest things they're ever going to deal with. Right. And that was I've, I've been working in access to justice for most of my legal education. And now, um, as I'm entering the profession as well. And I, I think sometimes the focus is so on that aspect of how we can make the system better. Like how can our legal system improve to like serve the public, right? And then you have all of these lawyers who are suffering, um, behind the screen of that, right? And I'm like, that is one area where we could improve our justice system by looking inward and really helping those inside this inside here. And some of that came from my own personal experience in law school of, you know, law school is intimidating. And, um, very candidly, um, I was diagnosed with ADHD in my first year of law school. Uh, and that's very common for women, late diagnosis of ADHD. And I, and I just wanted to ensure that I got the resources I needed.
Julia: [00:07:44] Like, I was like, okay, like, what is it that, how can I improve this experience for myself? And in seeing and going through that kind of recognizing some so many people are struggling, there is so much of this. And then at the same time, or maybe a little before the Cadieux report came out, the Sherbrooke report about mental health and wellness and the legal profession and really demonstrated how, you know, how severe the problem is here in Canada. And, um, we there's a task force here in New Brunswick that's been set up by the Law Society. And the dean of the law school was dealing with was, is part of that. And I got to kind of jump in as his RA and participate in that. And, and I'm still working with them now on the implementation aspect of that. Yeah, it's just been a process of kind of recognizing this problem and being like, what can we do? Like how do we, how do we fix? Like, how do we help? How do we fix this?
Tim: [00:08:39] Yeah. And I think you're, you're bang on on that in that lawyers have a lawyers, judges, all people in the system have a huge role to play in saying we're just not going to practice this way anymore. We're not going to expect other people to behave that way either. Um, because number one, it does us no good. And then number two, it does the profession in general no good. And then three, it doesn't reflect well for, for our services to other people. Right. I mean, that I kind of explain it to people. I try to I don't know how you feel about this, but, you know, I say to people like, listen, like if you see me taking this day once in a while, it's not because I'm not working really hard. It's actually because if I do that, I'm going to be better able to serve you and do things because I'm not burning myself out. Right? Like if I do that, I hit a limit. Um, and then then that's kind of where that goes. You, you had me thinking when you talked about the, um, the ADHD diagnosis. First of all, how surprising was that to you? You know, if you're in first year law school. And and then number two, like, what are some of the things that that you, you implemented to kind of make that to, you know, to accommodate that? Because I think like, you're right, every one of us has something that a challenge or two or whatever it is that that we have to overcome. It's just a matter of how we, how we deal with that and move forward.
Julia: [00:10:14] Yeah. Um, so for me, I would say that kind of just my experience in my 20s was I didn't really know myself very well at all. And I think as I've been raising my kids, right, I've, as I've been seeing their experiences, I started to have those moments of, wait a second, like, wait. And that really got me thinking about, you know, these things that especially especially for young girls now. And we have more research now because ADHD was really a young boy diagnosis for a really long time, or young girls who showed their ADHD like young boys, right? You know, the the hyper can't sit still. But mine was always, I absolutely love. I don't know the study of rocks. I'm going to study rocks for an entire month and learn everything I can. Um.
Tim: [00:11:10] Like deep dive, right?
Julia: [00:11:12] Right. It's like a hyperfixation. Right. And that's actually really helpful in a school context. If you're like, I'm obsessed with being a top student and a perfect performer. And I, if I can do that, then like my self-worth is really good, you know? But so for me, it was that kind of getting into law school, recognizing I had done exceptionally well throughout all of my education. And then I get to law school and everyone is exceptional, right? Everyone's an exceptional student. And just recognizing that you also can't do the hyperfixation one day study for law. Like you really have to learn it. Yeah. You can't. There's no way to. I mean, maybe some people can, but that's not how you figure out law. It's all it's very different. Uh, so I had to change all my study habits. I had to change, like my methods. And I was like, this. This seems like something like this seems like there might be something here. And then getting myself, getting myself diagnosed and then getting myself, um, I, I just became a lot more intentional about things that I needed, like starting to recognize, like I function better if I have a to do list that I always have with me, or if I put things in my calendar, or if I set off blocks of time. And just that was like those individual habits. But I've also gone a bit further with like just being really transparent about how I function and how I work best.
Julia: [00:12:46] Because even with my clerkship and I, uh, I did it because that was the job of working like a nine an 8:30 to 4:30 job. But I don't I don't work as well like that, right? Like I, I am a much better, uh, employee or a much better producer of work when I can do like a two hour here, do something different, come back to this project, like those types of those types of things, because that's how my brain functions better. I'm able to get more done that way. And just being transparent about that, especially now, where if I can work virtually and I can get the same work done in a two hour period at my house versus like sitting at an office for six hours, like I'm a better employee to you if I'm doing that, than just sitting there for six hours and not being able to concentrate for six hours. So it's just different things like that where I both looking at my habits, how I can improve, and then also asking for the things I need to be successful because I want to be successful for whoever I'm working with or working for. But in order to do that, I have to do it in a way that works for me. And I think that is scary, but I think it's also really freeing when you're working with people who understand that and who can. Yeah.
Tim: [00:14:14] Did you have any apprehensions at all about talking about those things?
Julia: [00:14:18] Oh, yeah.
Tim: [00:14:19] When you first kind of discovered this.
Julia: [00:14:21] Oh, and still now. Right. It's like one of those things where it's a scary thing, but I. I'm gonna do it anyway. Like, it's, it's a hard thought process to be like, do I look less, um, less competent or do I look less reliable? The answer to both of those is no. Like, I'm not like less reliable because the way I do the work is different. My work is always has always been good. Like I get the things done that need to be done. I've been hugely successful in my legal education, but that was because I was able to ask for those things. And, and I did the scary thing of asking for those things. And I've been really grateful. I think UNB has been exceptional at like making sure that their students can succeed. So I'm, I am grateful for the legal education that I had. But it is scary to, to kind of worry about those things. And I think that comes with the shift in the profession. I think it comes with there's. I'm okay being a little bit of a. I'm scared I'm going to do it anyway because I want, I'm hoping that's what it is for everyone eventually. Like it becomes less scary to just ask for what you need. Still be the successful like work producing person that is needed. You're just not maybe sitting in an office all day long. You know what I mean? Um. Is that clear? Yeah. Yeah.
Tim: [00:15:57] Yeah. No, I think that's that makes sense to me. And I think that that is the way that the, um, the profession is moving. I want to just touch on something that you mentioned because, you know, this is fascinating, um, without going into too much personal detail because obviously, you know, we have families and whatever, what you said about kind of learning through your children, isn't that, isn't that a wild real thing when you, when you, they constantly hold a mirror up to you and kind of like one thing that my wife often says is like, you know, she's gained more knowledge and intel about me and come to appreciate me more just by watching kind of how my, son operates, right? Like there's, it's, it's such a fascinating thing to look at and say, like, you know, you can't, you can't make up genetics like it's there. And it is obvious. And it is like one of the most incredible things to watch. Um, because it often will kind of show that mirror to you and you learn more about yourself through, through your children.
Julia: [00:17:11] Yeah, definitely. Definitely see yourself like definitely see myself in my kids. Um, yeah. And without going because it's like they're private, of course, but I've definitely had those moments of, um, well, is this, is this kiddo able to understand jokes? And I'm like, I don't know, like, do I understand? Like, I'm not very good at sarcasm or do they know sarcasm? I'm like, I know, like. Or, um, kind of that hyperfixation kind of thing or, um, or one of my kiddos has a really, really hard time. If you don't like, tell them exactly what's going to happen throughout the day. Like you're going to go to the grocery store, it's going to take two hours, like that kind of thing. Like they're really, they have trouble with that. And it's just been interesting to be like, oh, so that's where like, that's where I, uh, really where I saw it. I was like, yeah.
Tim: [00:18:10] So one of the things that, um, that's fascinating about that is you talk about that we learn things from our kids, but then we also realize like all of the different types of personalities and you really see it all when you come into the law, right? Like you really, really do. Because and the other thing that that's the first comment that I have on that. And then the second thing that you got me thinking about is a lot of people probably have the same experiences. But, you know, as I as my conversation with with Dean Marin on the recent episode. Um, you're smart enough to kind of cover it up, right? Or it becomes what you think is your superpower, but then you realize, hold on a second. It's not in some ways it can be, but then it's holding you back in other ways and you're constantly, I don't know about you, but you're constantly working on that, like reassessing and revising how you approach certain things.
Julia: [00:19:08] Absolutely. I think Neurodivergence is, is in some ways an amazing gift in a sense, because you are able to see the world in a very different way. And there are some parts of that that I really appreciate. There are, like Neurodivergence offers you just the ability to see things a little different. And I actually really like that in myself, like now that I've come to accept it and, you know, value that part of me. But that doesn't mean it's not sometimes very difficult to deal with, right? Like that. Sometimes it's an impediment, especially in society, where those kinds of things are a bit more hush hush or like, like I'm a very, I can be a really socially awkward or I can be very spontaneous. Like I can say something spontaneously and then be like, oh, that was like an inside thought like that, you know, like those kinds of those kinds of things you have to navigate socially. But a big thing is, is covering it up, right? Like you're like Dean Marin said, right. So I say, Dean, did you say Dean Marin as well?
Tim: [00:20:16] I think I did. Yeah.
Julia: [00:20:16] Okay. He tells me to call him Mike and I'm like, uh, no I'm not. Um, yeah. So anyway, um, it's true. You cover it up and that's, that's part of it from a very young age for a lot of a lot of kiddos, right? Who learn to mask. And then, um, and one thing I've noticed with my kiddos too, like they mask at school, then come home and there's an explosion because they're in like a safe space, right? So I think back to being a kid and doing school all day, then coming home and going to my room and reading a novel, like an entire novel for the rest of the day. Because I was like, I don't want like no one else. No interactions, nothing. I just need to zone in. Um, so yeah, I think it can be helpful in some ways, but if you're not careful, then it can be very problematic. So you need to come up with those like, no, Julia, you can't hyperfixate on a case file for ten hours and not eat and not drink any water and not get up. Like that's not safe. Like don't do that, you know? So yeah, it's that.
Tim: [00:21:24] Yeah, it's funny because because I, you know, like, as you're saying this, it's like a running joke in my office that like, has Tim eaten anything yet? Like it's 2:00 in the afternoon and I'm like sitting there kind of going, I'm starting to get dizzy if I. Yeah. It's not a good idea.
Julia: [00:21:41] Yeah. I'm like that a lot for sure.
Tim: [00:21:44] So tell me a little bit about, um, and this is a sensitive topic, but I think it's so important because first of all, you're, you're young, younger, you've got children, but you're young. And in February of this year, your mother passed away. Tell me a little bit about how that impacted, um, your articling experience and kind of navigating your professional obligations, um, over the past several months?
Julia: [00:22:12] Yeah. It's been, obviously she passed away four months ago, like very, very recent. So what had happened is she got very sick in January. Um, so around mid-January and I, she was, she lives in Ottawa or she lived in Ottawa. So I was down there. I went down to be there. And when I say like the humanity of the court, I really mean it. Like I was able to do virtually, like by her bedside and just when I could, like I worked all sorts of hours. They like were so understanding and I, I was down there with her for a good 4 or 5 weeks, like in that kind of. We had initially been told it would be like only a few days she'd be in the hospital and she would get out. And then things just kept going badly, I guess. And um, yeah, she passed away, um, mid-February and coming back was like, like a different world. Like it just felt like a very different. How do I sit in an office every day when my mom just died? You know, it's, it was a really tough, really tough time. But I think maybe people can relate to this as like, as a lawyer and just the type of personality I am, I'm like, okay, I am going to, I'm going to schedule grief like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to I went to the NBLAP like the the assistance program.
Julia: [00:23:49] I'm like, I'm going to get a grief counselor. I'm going to speak to the grief counselor. I'm going to set up like a 12 stage process of dealing with this. And I'll be fine. Like it'll be great. Um, come to our first like chat or whatever. And she's like, that's not how it works. Like, that's not how grief works. And I'm like, okay, so that sucks. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't plan it. I couldn't plan my experience of grief. So I went from that thought process to just kind of living in it and like, recognizing that that was going to be the reality for the last few months. And some days it really was like, I'm sitting at my desk and I can't think. And then other days, it's like, I'm gonna hyperfixate on this case for hours and feel really like in in the zone and forget everything else. And yeah, so it was, it was tough. Some days were just getting by. And when I finished clerking at the end of May, um, just the beginning of June, I was like home and my kids were all gone, like to school. My husband was at work and I was just sitting there and I was like, oh no, now I have to. There's no distractions. Like you just have to feel it. And yeah, so I have it's still an ongoing thing right now. Yeah.
Tim: [00:25:16] Yeah. And I don't think anybody like everybody's well intentioned and they, they say things, but I think that's something that everybody goes through, uh, differently. And, and so, you know, what made me really relate to that. And so I hope that other people were, um, same thing happened to me. I was 25. Um, you know, and it's still, You know, 20 something years later, it's still like once in a while, kind of like a punch in the gut, right? Like you can, you can't schedule grief, right? Like it's, it's going to tell you when it's scheduled and you can do your best to compartmentalize, but it'll come up at the weirdest times, right? And that's, that's the hard part about that.
Julia: [00:25:58] 100% I and it's just silly. Like some days I'm like, yeah, I'm totally feeling great today. And then the other day I was baking a cake for like my daughter's birthday. And I was like, flour, like buttering and flouring the pan. And I just had this vivid memory of my mom doing that, like teaching me how to do that. And I was like, the gut punch moment, right? Of just like, oh, like, mom's not here anymore. And yeah, it's just the weirdest little things. And yeah, I'm sure it's going to be a lifelong kind of grief, right? Uh, And she was like, she was only 66. She was quite young and it. Yeah. And I'm sorry for your loss as well, by the way.
Tim: [00:26:45] No, I mean, listen, it's been a long time. So I mean, but, uh, you know what I, I don't know if this resonates with you. What I always hope for people because, you know, when you've gone through that, it's, it's the values and the things that you were taught, right? Like that to me was like, I'll hang on to that. You can't take that away from me. That's never going to go away. I'm always going to have those, those things. Um, and I'm sure there are things similar for you that, that, you know, like that you're, you're always going to have those things.
Julia: [00:27:18] Yeah. We had a really strong sense of like family sticking together. Um, my mom and us four siblings, like we were like, my parents are separated. We just have different relationships with our parents. But, um, the four of us kids, right? Just really being there for one another. And you could. We really experienced that, like by her bedside. We were all there like throughout the day or someone was always with her during the day. And then, uh, when we knew she was passing away, like a few of us stayed. Right. And kind of my brother and I were there when she passed away. And it was like that, that bond that like, like family connection in like crisis or just whenever is something that is her like her influence. And I, I really appreciate that because we, we fight like normal siblings do and normal families do. But like we're, we're connected. And it's her. It was her. Yeah.
Tim: [00:28:22] So tell me a little bit about, um, you, you are start. First of all, thank you for, for sharing those things. I know that's not, uh, not easy to do, but I hope that by having this discussion and talking about these things that, you know, it tells other people in the profession that it's okay to, to have those discussions, right. Like you don't have to be a robot all the time. You can be a human being.
Julia: [00:28:47] Yeah. That's it. We don't need to hide away. I really value. Like, I value being transparent myself because then hopefully other people feel comfortable being like transparent as well. You know, in a safe way, in a, in a safe space. Like you don't have to share your, your trauma with everyone. But if you find like those people who really will listen and will like, be there with you, you know, the safe people in this profession, and hopefully the profession itself will become a safe place one day in a grander scale. But by having those conversations and not feeling as alone. Hopefully that in itself makes a difference.
Tim: [00:29:28] So tell me a little bit about, um, you had mentioned recently online you're starting a new, um, career as a as an associate lawyer now. And you'd gotten some good advice from a mentor basically, um, about building the practice that you want. And like I saw that that's great. Like that is to me, that's what we should all be aspiring to, right? Like that. You don't have to. There's not just a one one size fits all mold that everybody has to follow.
Julia: [00:29:59] Yeah. And I think that's just been how it's had to be for me since the beginning of like going to law school, right? Because I obviously have four kids and a husband and I'm a bit older, but then a lot of the students who come into law school, like some people start late. I have obviously mature students that are great friends of mine. Um, but it just always had to be that way. It had to be that I could like, first of all, I moved to New Brunswick, uh, was really based on the idea that I wanted to go to a smaller law school where. And to a smaller place where commuting wasn't as big a concern as it would be in where we were living, where we were on the Quebec side of the Ottawa-Gatineau area. And any commuting was terrible. Like there was hours you're losing to commuting every day, which I just didn't want for my family. Like I didn't want to lose all the time that I was already studying. But then on top of that, like more time with my kids that I would lose based on traffic and stuff like that. So even just our move to New Brunswick was this idea that we're going to have to build this the way we decide to in order to make it work for our family and through law school and working, it was always like, if I am able to work from home, I do things from home. If I'm able to avoid late nights in the library, I did that like all of these things that I could, not all the time.
Julia: [00:31:36] There were obviously times where I was in the library till close, but it just had to be that way. And that was just what, how I set out and just what I've kept with me. But and articling was actually the hardest year for that, right? Because it's a pretty set schedule. The court is open from 8:30 to 4:30, and they were incredibly gracious with me. Um, and wonderful. I've never, I never felt like I, if one of my kids was sick, I couldn't leave to go get them. Like those kinds of things happened a lot. Um, and they were great. And I could finish work at home, but having an 8:30 to 4:30 for a year and the requirements of, you know, getting to getting your admission to the bar of like working all these, this time, that was the hardest year for me because there wasn't as much flexibility. And I and being in that and making it work for a year was like, okay, I can't do that. I can't be a lawyer who practices like from 8:30 to 4:30. 9 to 5. Like, I can't do an office job like that. It won't work. So I have to, so I have to build my career the way that is necessary to meet the, the goals that I have. Right. I have family obligations that I just will not I, I won't sacrifice those. I really want to be home for my kids when I can. And I think part of it for me is that I, I did have those experiences where people asked me like in a job interview, um, I was asked, you know, like, how are you going to balance having kids and doing this job or this position? And I just remember after that thinking like, do, does everyone get asked this question if they have kids or a different obligation.
Julia: [00:33:36] Like, there are so many times where I've seen this or experience this kind of. But how are you going to do it all? Like, can you do it all? Like, are you going to be effective? And I just, I've decided that, yeah, I can, I just have to build it a certain way so that it works that way. And I can do that. And, and my mentors kind of like statement of don't settle. Like you can do that. This can happen was very affirming for me that this thing that I was kind of doing without putting a name to it, it was just like, this is what we're going to do because this is what I want to happen in my life now has like a, like someone confirming that this is something you can do. Like you don't have to, uh, you don't have to accept that you're either going to give 80 hour weeks or leave the profession to make sure that you're home with your kids. You don't have to sacrifice your mental health in order to be a good, successful lawyer. You just you just kind of demand that you're going to do.
Julia: [00:34:44] Like I'm going to demand that I have this as my this is my profession. Like, this is how it's going to look. And there are probably people who aren't going to want to work with you in that. And that's okay. Those aren't your people. Like, that's not your firm. That's not what you're going to do. And, and that's okay. And I'm just hoping that the more we ask for the things that we need to be successful without compromising our families and compromising our health and those things, that becomes the norm. Right? So I'm just going to do it. And, and having that, having my mentor be like, you can do it like, okay, we're gonna do that. And I think that comes from also just being a little older when entering this this profession, right. Like right from the get go, I know what I want for my life full, like the full scope as I might not. I might not know exactly the areas of law I want to practice and all that, but I know what I want my life to look like. And maybe that's a bit of a different position than some of like someone who's a bit younger, just leaving, just entering the profession. Um, but I think just the place where I am in my life right now, I'm like, no, I, I want things a certain way and I will do good work. I will give my all, but we just need to work together. We need to work on it, make it work for everyone.
Tim: [00:36:08] I hope that that, uh, the profession is moving towards more of that. I see a lot of good signs. Um, you know, and I think there's a lot of people who that's the way that they want to practice because we've just seen the results. If you don't do it that way, right? If you just cannot sustain the type of practice, um, that some people have tried to do.
Julia: [00:36:33] It's and amongst the lawyers at your firm or wherever you are, you're going to have to buy into this because otherwise people aren't going to want to work for you because people will go find places that are doing that and it'll be it, it's going to be the same professional result or better, I think like, I think, um, people do better work when they're healthy. I think that's pretty clear. So where, where there's buy in already to this kind of this better balance than we've had in the profession for forever, I guess. Um, I think we're going to see more success and healthier lawyers.
Tim: [00:37:15] So one of the questions that I, that I always ask, um, at the end of this, um, these interviews is if there's something in the legal profession that you would change related to mental health, what would it be? And maybe you've already just answered that, but I, you know, I'd like to to know that. And then as for your particular situation, what would you tell, um, current law students or articling students, um, you know, who are pushing through grief or burnout or family pressures and things like that. So there's two parts. The I shouldn't be doing that. That's a compound question. So you could object to that. Um, you've, you've got it right?
Julia: [00:37:55] Find safe people or safe, a safe work environment where you can tell people when you're struggling and it not coming back on you as something being wrong with you or you being less, uh, effective, less competent, uh, as a lawyer, I would love to see a change of the culture in that way. I think it's coming. I think, um, I think we're moving there, but I think there's obviously a lot of work to do. And when it comes to myself and what I would say to law students like find your people. Um, I had friends, you know, I actually found like, I think law students are an incredible group of people and a lot of us are just weirdos, like really geeky, nerdy weirdos. And it's so true. And I loved it because you just find like the quirkiness that matches your quirkiness or quirkiness that really like, um, does well with your own version of quirkiness, like find the people that work and, and really keep those relationships and build those relationships. I have friends like we, um, quite a few friends, but I have two friends in particular that I, um, that we were just called to the bar together and we took photos together and we have photos like at different award ceremonies through the years and we just like put them all together. And I honestly don't know how I would have gotten through law school without people like that, right? Like it's, it's just find the people where you can do a group text message being like, I am having a day, you know, like this is a struggle. I would say that for law school, especially for like study sessions. You want to have those people that you can both like, like put your nose to the grindstone, do the job kind of thing, but also be the refresh, like the breath of fresh air, the fun, um, the celebration afterwards kind of thing.
Julia: [00:39:59] And, um, yeah, I just think that if we can all be a little bit more honest with one another and, you know, and more in a safe place, I wouldn't want to say like, just say, just tell everyone how you're feeling because there are some not safe spaces right now. And it's totally okay not to, to, not to share all of your, uh, feelings, but finding the safe spaces in this profession. There are a lot of really amazing people here in New Brunswick, and I'm sure across Canada and throughout this profession where that are safe to, to be open and transparent about how you're really doing. And that would be kind of my advice. And don't settle. Like build the life you want, build the career you want because you only get one life. You only get one shot at this. And I heard from like really successful people in this profession that like, the thing they regret is like losing out. They're losing out on their family because they were so focused on work or, or missing out on relationships because they were so busy. Like, let's not have that be our stories, right? Let's, let's find what works and not settle because we will build that profession like we are it. So we can do it if we just have to ask for it, We just have to demand it and do it. So that would be my.
Tim: [00:41:29] Well, I really like that. And I think, you know, speaking, if you're kind of the future of the profession, then I think we're in a good spot. So I really appreciate, um, taking the time to talk to me, um, and to share some of these stories with people. I think this is my first kind of close to a law student age, um, for an interview. So I think that's really helpful to get a different perspective, um, on kind of what the struggles are and, and kind of, and I think for you, you represent a very important demographic, which is people that, you know, have families have things that they have to do have responsibilities. Because frankly, when you were talking about the discussion about somebody asking, like, how do you balance that? And I was thinking, holy crap. Like that's like, everybody has something, right? Like whether you're, whether you're older and caring for an aging parent or you've got children at home, or you've got someone who's, who's ill or, you know, like it just it never ends. So like you're going to have to balance no matter what. So I think it's unfortunate to kind of pinpoint one particular circumstance and say, like, how would you balance that? Well, just like we balance everything.
Julia: [00:42:42] I have no choice. I can't put off an assignment until the very last day. Because what happens if one of my kids is really sick and I can't, you know, like, I can't put it off thinking that I'll have time later because I probably won't. I think that, yeah, we all have our own stuff that we're going through, and if we can all be a little kinder to one another and also make it safe so that when people are like struggling, that they can reach out and say something and not fear it looking bad on them, then we're building.
Tim: [00:43:17] Or or don't use someone's humanity as a tactic, as a lawyering tactic like that is for me, that's like, you can't do that, right? Like if somebody comes to you as a professional and says like, hey, like this is going on. Have some respect for that, like that. That's incredibly important.
Julia: [00:43:37] It's actually like built into some of our regulations. So it's a real important, it's an important conversation to have about how are we making it so that people can speak up and like, talk about what they need or what they're dealing with without fear that it'll negatively impact their ability to, to be in this profession. So that's a whole thing I nerd out on. Awesome.
Tim: [00:44:01] Well, thanks so much for your time. And, uh, I look forward to talking to you again in the future.
Julia: [00:44:06] Yeah, I really look forward to it.