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Host Dr. Darin Detwiler talks to automotive industry veteran and My Trusted Source advisory board member Pedro Ferro. They discuss the concept of trust, which Ferro describes as "something earned and acquired through multiple reliable experiences with something or someone." The role of trust in the food industry is compared and contrasted with its role in the auto industry.
This podcast is presented by My Trusted Source.
Produced by Joe Diaco Podcasting Support.
This podcast is presented by My Trusted Source.
Produced by Joe Diaco Podcasting Support.
Creators & Guests
What is Trust Bites?
Hosted by food safety industry leader and consumer advocate Dr. Darin Detwiler, "Trust Bites" examines the challenges of ensuring food safety in a complex global marketplace and maintaining brand reputation.
With the rise of global food trade, consumers, retailers, and producers alike are increasingly concerned about the safety and quality of the food they buy. Many existing validation systems are outdated, bureaucratic, and expensive, creating inefficiency and allowing vital information to slip through the cracks.
"Trust Bites" delves into the validation process, discussing the challenges and limitations of current systems and exploring fair and equitable solutions.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Hello. This is Trust Bites, presented by My Trusted Source, the solution to build trust throughout today's global food supply chain. I'm Dr. Darin Detwiler, and in these next episodes, we'll be diving into deep discussions with our advisory board.
One of our advisory board members is Pedro Ferro, and I'm really excited to be talking with him.
Welcome, Pedro.
Pedro Ferro: Oh, thank you, Darin. I'm really excited to be here myself.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: You know, we interact with people, we travel, we have conversations with those around us, and we often have the ability to speak with people whose experiences are not solely within our field. And this, I believe, is gonna be one of those opportunities to bring your rich background into this conversation.
But for those who might not know who you are, tell us just a little bit about yourself.
Pedro Ferro: Sure, thank you. I have worked for 30-plus years in the automotive and commercial vehicle industry, all over the world. I actually had the opportunity to live and work in places like China and Europe and Mexico. And my last job was CEO of a large brake manufacturing company that makes brake linings and brake shoes for the commercial vehicle industry.
And five years ago, I became independent. I'm working with a private equity firm and also as a consultant. I specialize in complexity reduction in manufacturing, including supply chains, primarily global supply chains, such as auto parts and truck components, right? So I have a little bit of experience in the food supply chain, because I worked closely with WQS during the time of its sale, and I had the opportunity to see some practices in the supply chain to compare that with the practices that are done in my world. So, that's kind of my background in a nutshell.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Well, thank you for sharing that with us. And, you know, obviously, there's comparisons that can be drawn between the two sectors there. One element that I can guarantee you will find in both is that idea of trust. I would love to start off by just simply asking you the question:
How do you define trust?
Pedro Ferro: I would say that trust is something that you earn and acquire based on having multiple reliable experiences with something or someone. So, you know, it's not something that comes out of hierarchy or comes out of status, or it comes out of the position of the other party. I think it really comes only after you experience reliably, you know, many times.
I used to have a joke in my business. We used to say, "We only trust in God; everybody else brings data." That kind of tells you a little bit about our mindset, you know, and nowadays it's very easy to confuse trust with data, with knowledge, with many things. Really, it for me boils down to reliability. You know, the outcome being what both sides have agreed to consistently over time.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Well, you know, we find ourselves talking in different circles from time to time, and I was recently talking with someone who described trust in that, to trust yourself, you don't need evidence. And I could see that, right? But when you're trying to build trust, more of the transactional, if you will, with other people, you have to have that evidence. Whether it's data or just that evidence to do that, and, of course, this all takes so many different forms. There's people that, you know, trust is based on history, on experience, on feelings and opinions. And in some cases smells, you know, 'this is how I want this food to smell,' or 'this is how I want this, this store to smell' or whatever. You don't have to have evidence other than that kind of organoleptic you know, exposure to, okay, this smells clean.
But, you know, the proof, the evidence of trust is going to vary all over the place. I think it's, it's changing because people are demanding more and different types of evidence. Do you see that growth in terms of what's being expected today?
Pedro Ferro: Yeah, absolutely. I think that the expectation has gone up and I agree with you. I think the first time you meet a product or you meet a person or you, you know, you are informed in your decision to consume, in your decision to act based on the reputation, based on the data that you have, on the information.
So if I go to a good store, the first time I'm there I'm going to think about the brand image. I'm going to think about the displays. I'm going to think about the data I'm getting. Or a good restaurant, you know. But really, I don't think at that point I have trust in that chain, in that product, in that store. I think what I have is I am well informed. I have privileged information from being there. So I have first hand information, but only after I experienced, I think, that store, that food, that restaurant, I can start developing trust. I think trust is something a little bit personal. Different persons, I think, have different needs to come to trust something or somebody.
Some people do it based purely on data. You know, nowadays, it's pretty easy to assume that data is all you need. But, you know, even if you think about artificial intelligence, what you see nowadays, these language models that they have out there, you still are elucidating, they're still not correct. They're not as smart as you think, when sometimes you get disappointed by what they tell you and all that. So I think, you have to really experience that by yourself before you can develop that trust. But definitely, I think information and data informs you, informs your decision, informs your strategy, but not necessarily creates the trust in my opinion.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Well, you know, to build on that point, we can also add the data that steers people away from the reality or it gets in the way maybe of reality. I mean, ironically, with the automobile industry, there is literally a smell, the whole idea of the new car smell, you know. The new car smell can be added. And I have to admit, as much as when you buy, let's say you buy a car and you want to smell that new car smell, which we all know is actually like glues, the irony is that, we say things like 'the new car smell' and 'kick the tires.' Neither of those really are true indicators of how safe or capable the engine is.
Pedro Ferro: You're absolutely right. And if you think about what happened in the automotive industry over the years, it took many accidents. It took many lives. It took many lawsuits-- think about Ralph Nader and all that-- throughout the years for people to finally develop trust in some of these brands. A lot of brands lost public trust, lost their image.
Probably because they didn't deliver to the smell, you know. They didn't deliver to the initial experience. They might look nice and everything. And they were not safe. So I think that it's something that you develop over the years. It's very easy to lose. But it needs data to inform the decisions, it needs data to, let's say, augment your perception. And obviously the smell is a type of data that you get, it's emotional. I think the decision is based on data. It's based on emotions. It's based on senses and all that.
But I would say that it takes time to develop trust. And that's one of the things with the food industry. I'm not sure they're at the same level. Even though they had many issues in the past. They had, you know, lawsuits, they had all kinds of problems. I'm not sure that they have proven to the consumer, to the public that they can be trusted as an industry, as a whole. In the automotive side, there's been so many debates. If your car fails for whatever reason, there's a very high chance that you're going to get made whole by the system because there's so much out there. But in the food, it's taking very casual degrees on issues. You know, the spectrum is so huge in terms of quality, in terms of safety and all that. There are no standards to define the degrees, the nuances of issues, for example, in the food supply chain, as opposed to, you know, when something breaks down and something is not right in a vehicle, you have a manual, you have a part, you have a design, you can go back.
It's much simpler to do that on the automotive world. I'm not saying, "okay, they're doing better." It's just because it's a lot more complex in the food supply chain.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Well, and of course, within the food, most of the major problems are invisible. You can't see, hear or smell it. Whereas, it'd be great if our food had a service engine light that that came on and blinked. But we don't have that.
Pedro Ferro: Exactly.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Let's finish up here by talking about the idea of when we lose trust, when we break that trust with our consumer, our customer, our audience there. What are your thoughts on the idea of when we lose trust?
Pedro Ferro: Well, when you lose trust, I think that the reaction that you might have is, you know, that has informed your strategy or decision going forward. You might create a barrier, a wall, towards that issue that created a trust problem, and that may be unfair because you may not be delving, you know, you're not maybe understanding the nuances of what created that problem. But it creates an emotional blockage sometimes, especially on the consumer side.
I think, you know, you can see by the reaction that people have to different restaurants, you may find something really nice and someone may give it a one star or zero stars, if there's such a thing, for the same thing that you consider to be trustworthy and nice.
So I think that losing trust means, for most people I think, creating this barrier and then obviously in the professional world, in my world, losing trust means: now I want to put my finger into it. I want to validate. I want to verify. I want to double check. It's a different sense of responsibility there, because there's money involved.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Well, I would imagine there's some similarities in terms of if I'm a consumer and I lose trust with a food maker, a brand or a restaurant or a grocery store, I'm going to lose my trust with everything associated with that store, with that brand. And in the automobile industry, the idea of if I lose trust with an automaker, I'm probably not going to buy anything from from that maker ever again.
Pedro Ferro: But here's the difference. Sometimes you have a choice not to buy from the same automaker. But not always you have a choice. Sometimes you lose trust and you have to continue to transact with that brand. Many examples in the US. Do we trust the airlines, for example? Do we trust CVS and Walgreens that they will give you good service? But we don't have any options. We have to continue to transact with this.
That's why I say, once you lose trust, you have to really verify, get more data to kind of inform your decisions and be a lot more, if you will, meticulous in going forward.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: Well, Pedro, thank you very much. And I'm looking forward to some future conversations.
Pedro Ferro: Thank you, Darin. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Dr. Darin Detwiler: I hope you found this discussion on trust and validation in the food supply chain enlightening. And I invite you to future episodes where we will continue to hear from our My Trusted Source advisory board members, who will share their insights and experiences related to trust, communication and validation in the food supply chain.
Until next time, I'm Dr Darin Detweiler for Trust Bites, presented by My Trusted Source.