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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
[00:00:00] Fernanda: quickly. So I told her, I said, "Hey, we need some psychological safety training here because the team is not feeling psychologically safe." So fast-forward, a group of consultants came to do a psychological safety workshop, and I was very happy. I was excited. I was like, "Okay, good.
[00:00:17] They're doing something about this," Unfortunately, went awry and somebody started crying. The workshop fell apart. the facilitators didn't know what to do.
[00:00:29] it felt like an episode of "The Office," like where Michael Scott is doing something, some kind of workshop that he came up with, and everything just kind of falls apart.
[00:00:38] That's how it felt like. Yeah.
[00:00:40] Rachel: ,Welcome to Lonely at the Top, a podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world, because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here, we welcome founders, executives, and decision-makers who feel the isolation and pressure that come with power.
[00:00:59] Lonely at the Top [00:01:00] is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, executive coach, and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today on the podcast, we have Fernanda Brasileiro. I hope I said that right. I did my best. After 20 years in global ops leadership, Fernanda now leverages her expertise towards offering consulting, workshop facilitation, and coaching for supply chain analytics and leadership development.
[00:01:30] She explores how self-trust, emotional intelligence, and psychological safety enable good leadership behaviors. Fernanda, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
[00:01:42] Fernanda: Thank you, Rachel. I'm so excited to be here, and I appreciate the great introduction. And you said my name almost correctly, but that's okay 'cause nobody gets it. It's no
[00:01:53] big deal
[00:01:53] Rachel: please say it the way that we should say it
[00:01:56] Fernanda: Y- Fernanda Brasileiro is the Americanized version, [00:02:00] and then the Brazilian version, which is where I'm from, is Fernanda Brasileiro. Yeah
[00:02:07] Rachel: Brasileiro. Okay. Thank you. I practiced it, and then we hit record, and I lost my practice. Thank you for correcting me.
[00:02:15] welcome. So, I think we first met through Jessica Lackey's community, Deeper Business Foundations. Folks who listen to the podcast regularly hear me name check that a lot. But there's just so many really interesting people doing work where they have I would say escaped corporate life.
[00:02:35] And so I get to hear... I mean, this is just where I meet people 'cause I don't work in corporate, so I get to meet people who have, left the place where they were experiencing a lot of that isolation and challenge in being in leadership. I would love to hear more about that from you, and I'm actually curious.
[00:02:56] Like, my first question is, do you find being [00:03:00] an entrepreneur more or less lonely?
[00:03:03] Fernanda: Oh, wow. Yes. So, let me start by saying that when I was in corporate leadership before leaving my n- my full-time employee corporate job, it was lonely but in different ways. Like, you were lonely in a crowd, if you will, because there were people all around you, but you had to... when you get to a certain level, there's a element of trust that needs to be evaluated, right?
[00:03:30] Like, can I trust this person? Can I share with this person? And if the answer is no, job becomes harder. In my case, my mental health at work was suffering from not feeling, not feeling like I had people to go to among my peers. And you know, so there's a, a whole complexity there, which I think I've...
[00:03:52] I listen to your podcast, and I've heard you talk about this before. So, like, it's real, right? Like when the higher up [00:04:00] people go in a certain corporate environment, the more lonely they become because they don't have as many peers that they can truly trust and share with. And that's where things like coaching can be helpful and, or peer network groups, right?
[00:04:16] Like, I think those are all very beneficial to people in, in those situations. Entrepreneurship, definitely very lonely. I found it to be you know, you, you're just trying to build a business by yourself. So, like, joining Jessica's community has been very beneficial to me personally. It gave me some structure that I needed, but it also gave me, like, other people to look up to, like you, Rachel and Erica
[00:04:47] Rachel: not pay her to say that.
[00:04:48] Fernanda: No.
[00:04:51] And to see like it is possible, like 'cause there's a lot of self-doubt too when you when you leave an industry and you're working on a big [00:05:00] pivot like I, like the one that I've been working on, there's a lot of self-doubt. Like, "Am I cut out for this? Is this the lifestyle that I was hoping for? Am I just working uncompensated to get more work?"
[00:05:15] Like that's a question that I ask myself a lot when I'm not engaged with client work. Right now I'm actually doing some client work, so that's been good. But there were a few months there where I wasn't, and so I would compare what my life used to be like when I was in corporate to my life as an entrepreneur.
[00:05:36] And to be honest, there's good and bad in both, at least from my, perspective, you know?
[00:05:42] Rachel: Yeah, I agree. so you feel isolation in different ways from either, really?
[00:05:49] Fernanda: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
[00:05:50] Rachel: Turns out that we have a struggle with loneliness and isolation as, people in this society. It just is, right? Oh, [00:06:00] well, do you wanna share anything about your background just to give people kind of a sense of where you're coming from?
[00:06:07] Fernanda: Sure, absolutely. So my career up until last year was in corporate supply chain planning circles
[00:06:16]
[00:06:17]
[00:06:17] Fernanda: companies like Krispy Kreme was the last one I worked for. And I also worked in companies that provided services to other big companies that are more well-known. Like one of my big clients was McDonald's for many years, and another big client was Starbucks for many y- for a few years.
[00:06:38] I had a short stint with Chick-fil-A as a client and with a company called Go2 Foods. So like I got some experience that way as an employee of a service provider, but dealing with big corporate supply chain food they call it quick service restaurants, QSRs. And so like I I feel like I [00:07:00] got some expertise there, but I was also leading teams.
[00:07:04] There was a time where I had a team of about 50 people
[00:07:09]
[00:07:09]
[00:07:09] Fernanda: about four or five of those were managers and then planners below the managers. And then there was another time where my team reduced to about 20, 23 people, like three or four managers and the rest were planners and analysts. And then I had a smaller team.
[00:07:26] So I it was interesting, like my, team size went from small, small, small, big, and then like medium, small again. so I ha- you know, I enjoyed being a people leader, although that comes with a lot of thankless things that you do for your team that nobody recognizes and that you... I- it's not really valued.
[00:07:49] And it... So, I guess if I
[00:07:51] Rachel: Can you give us an example?
[00:07:53] Fernanda: Yeah. So I'll artic- I'll try to articulate this a little better, and I think people might resonate with this. You can [00:08:00] look at a company and you can see the same leader, like s- same types of departments with different leadership styles. There will be a, a leader who is, like, super nurturing and codependent and doing everything for her team, like, and I'm speaking from experience. And then you then you might have a department where the, person who got put in that leadership position is not a nurturing leader and doesn't really care for developing teams that much, and they're just like... I, and I, and I met somebody once who told me, "Oh, no, I don't like, doing that.
[00:08:33] I don't like developing people. They have to come to me already developed." And
[00:08:37] Rachel: Okay
[00:08:38] Fernanda: so you have that, spectrum, right? You have the people who are, like, super nurturing and then the people who are not nurturing at all. But guess what? They're still leaders and having that responsibility for that team.
[00:08:51] And the, thankless things that I'm talking about are things like giving actual feedback that's constructive and helpful, setting [00:09:00] expectations in a caring and respectful way, having an understanding that the person is a whole human being and isn't just a machine doing transactions for you.
[00:09:11] and actually, like, giving people something to wanna achieve towards, like, working with their motivation styles trying to truly get to know them and build trust with them. A lot of these things are soft, and they're not recognized or measured for the
[00:09:28] most
[00:09:29] Rachel: not KPIs
[00:09:30] Fernanda: They're not KPIs.
[00:09:32] but they actually drive good team performance and keep, like, they drive retention, they drive satisfaction. You have a more engaged team that's stepping up above and beyond because they know they have a leader that cares. And so yeah. So that's kind of what I meant by thankless. And there's also the middle management piece, right?
[00:09:55] I guess I was... I don't know what you define as middle management, but I [00:10:00] definitely felt like I was middle management. Like, there were people above me and people below me, and I was having to be the conductor of information up and down. And sometimes it's not easy, right? You got your team asking, "What about this?
[00:10:15] What about this? What, what are, what are, what are they thinking?" and I only know whatever my boss is telling me, and so I could be sometimes conveying the wrong message unknowingly, you know?
[00:10:27] Rachel: Mm-hmm,
[00:10:27] Fernanda: So that's another challenge of middle management.
[00:10:30] Rachel: When you were in middle management, did you feel like you had camaraderie with other middle managers? Like, did you at least feel like you could, you know, connect and be heard by them?
[00:10:42] Fernanda: Yes, if I found people who could be like my work friends. There were times I was very lucky and I found those people, and I had these work buddies that I would c- confide in and we would support each other. And there were other [00:11:00] times when that was not a reality for me, unfortunately.
[00:11:04] And to be honest, like I think there's a lot of factors that drive workplace happiness as an employee, but this for me was one of the things that made me the most unhappy, was like not feeling like I could count on my peers or go to my peers or not feeling like I had any work buddies to support me and for me to support them.
[00:11:25] Yeah.
[00:11:26] Rachel: Yeah. So what is one season or decision in leadership that really tested you?
[00:11:34] Fernanda: Yes. So I think, you know, and you, you commented on an article that I posted on LinkedIn.
[00:11:41] Rachel: do. Yeah, there's, that's the reason why I said, "Hey, you've got some stuff to talk about,
[00:11:46] Fernanda: I do.
[00:11:46] Rachel: about this on the show." Yeah
[00:11:48] Fernanda: And by the way, I'm always offering people, like for example, I, I meet executive coaches or leadership development people who specialize in psychological safety, for example. And I'll be [00:12:00] like, " I have some stories I can share with you for your marketing if you need some."
[00:12:07] Rachel: That should be your marketing. Share the stories for your marketing
[00:12:12] Fernanda: Well, yes. I can always, I al- I do talk about psychological safety, but that's not like my main thing. my focus right now is developing the inner self of the leader with self-compassion, self-trust, and becoming more grounded so that they can lead better. but I, of course, psychological safety is so important, and trust, leadership doesn't exist without trust, in my opinion.
[00:12:39] Rachel: I think psychological safety is one... I was just talking with a client about this yesterday. It's one of those things that you don't realize you don't have until you finally have it, and then you're like, "Oh, this is what I was missing.
[00:12:57] Fernanda: That's
[00:12:58] Rachel: actually be [00:13:00] vulnerable. I can actually... Like, if I screw up or I say something too real or too messy, I don't get judged or shamed or y- you know, attacked for it.
[00:13:13] Fernanda: I love... Yeah. I love how you put a kind of a positive spin on what it looks like to have psychological safety versus what it looks like to not have psychological safety. Because I think in one of my situations that was very challenging, to answer your question, I went from an environment where I felt psychologically safe to an environment where I did not feel psychologically safe.
[00:13:43] And so for me, feeling that lack was very hard. Like there were leadership behaviors in place at this particular company that I was in where We were in meetings and everyone was presenting, [00:14:00] and the leaders above my level were literally IM'ing each other, criticizing whatever we were saying to each other, including the l- in- not the VPs and the person above the VPs, the person who was in charge of the division.
[00:14:17] They were all in this little like For lack of a
[00:14:20] better term, almost, yeah, like a, almost like a mean girls club and where they,
[00:14:26] Rachel: That's terrible
[00:14:27] Fernanda: And then if they had an issue with something we said in the meeting, they would not verbalize it in the meeting. You would hear about it later through, if somebody chose to give you the
[00:14:40] Rachel: That's my least favorite thing. I hate that so much. I hate that
[00:14:45] Fernanda: It was not great. and that was the way it was with every meeting. so my, when I came on, my team told me, "Hey, like we don't feel at ease to actually say things because we know we're being judged and we know that we're being kind [00:15:00] of nitpicked behind our backs." So there was like lack of courage, I guess, lack of managerial courage from those leaders to even tell us whatever it is that we were doing wrong.
[00:15:11] You know what I mean? Or, even, uh, and it was nitpicky on words. "Oh, he shouldn't say this word," or, "She shouldn't..." so that was an example of an environment I was in. And when the leader was doing a kind of a workshop for strategic initiatives that could improve the department, I was new, but I already saw that very quickly.
[00:15:34] So I told her, I said, "Hey, we need some psychological safety training here because the team is not feeling psychologically safe." So fast-forward the maybe a year later a group of consultants came to do a psychological safety workshop, and I was very happy. I was excited. I was like, "Okay, good.
[00:15:55] They're doing something about this," you know? Unfortunately, [00:16:00] went awry and somebody started crying. The workshop fell apart. the facilitators didn't know what to do.
[00:16:09] Rachel: Oh, no
[00:16:10] Fernanda: So unfortunately, it felt like an episode of "The Office," like where Michael Scott is doing something, some kind of workshop that he came up with, and everything just kind of falls apart.
[00:16:22] That's how it felt like. Yeah.
[00:16:24] Rachel: Yikes. That's, that's pretty upsetting, and I'm sure those people were paid a decent amount of money coming in supposedly as experts in this, and for them to screw it up that badly, that's, that's terrible, and really damaging to the company, to everybody who works there
[00:16:42] Fernanda: It was sad. It was sad and it was a total bummer. And, and afterwards people were gossiping and yeah. So it,
[00:16:50] Rachel: they were.
[00:16:51] Fernanda: the lack of safety continued because even during the safety workshop, we didn't feel safe to talk. [00:17:00] Yeah.
[00:17:01] Rachel: That's terrible. I'm sorry. that's an awful experience, and I am sorry that you went through it, but I'm guessing part of what you do now is informed by having gone through th- things like that
[00:17:14] Fernanda: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know that, it's harder to fix this kind of problem, like lack of trust in a team like that is much harder to fix than something that you do with one workshop. I can't speak for all companies and all situations, but I'm guessing that depending on the situation, there might need to be structural changes.
[00:17:37] There might need to be somebody exiting the team. There might need to be maybe some series of workshops, not just one, and maybe some coaching, individual coaching with specific people. And m- maybe some anonymous surveys that are conducted with teams so that they can feel safe to disclose information without [00:18:00] being retaliated against, you know?
[00:18:02] Rachel: Hmm. It's a lot of work, you know, that, kind of consulting. I know that it is. I have done a tiny bit of it and I'm like, "This is... This part's not for me."
[00:18:13] Fernanda: not what, not what you're into?
[00:18:16] Rachel: It's, well, first of all, no company really wants to do it,
[00:18:22] Fernanda: Mm-hmm
[00:18:23] Rachel: that's always the issue is like, okay, you guys are having a significant enough problem that the whole company needs therapy essentially, but we're not calling it therapy, and we're gonna do... I mean, I'm not, I'm not speaking from a place of being highly informed.
[00:18:37] This is me as an outside observer,
[00:18:39] and through my bias, I'm just gonna say that. But yeah, I think it's, you know, consultants have to do a great deal of work to try to make up for the way in which people have come into a place and either are unregulated, dysregulated, uns- you know, unhealthy, upset, or they're coming into a [00:19:00] place that has a tradition of being unhealthy and upset.
[00:19:05] And, you know, man, changing that it's just, it's a huge amount of labor
[00:19:11] Fernanda: Yeah
[00:19:12] Rachel: usually feels like it's I don't know. You ever, you ever see Ratatouille?
[00:19:17] Fernanda: Yes, I love that movie
[00:19:19] Rachel: So you know where the kid knocks over the soup and then has to start trying to make the soup from scratch, and he does not cook, and he's just made an absolute garbage mess, and this little rat, who is a, has a very fine palate and is a chef, runs past it, and he's like, "Ugh, it smells, it smells nauseating"?
[00:19:38] And so he starts trying to fix it, and he's throwing in a bunch of different things, and here's a bay leaf, and here's some more chicken broth, and here's some garlic. And I always think, can you really make a great soup out of what was originally kind of trash? Like, can you? That's, that's what it reminds me of.
[00:19:56] I mean, he does successfully do that, but[00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Fernanda: Yeah. But, and, and I kn- I know what you mean, and I do love that scene where the rat is trying to fix the soup. But I don't know if humans are like soup ingredients.
[00:20:13] Rachel: It, it might be oversimplified as a metaphor. People are much more adaptive. You can't really turn, a bay leaf into another thing, but people are capable of being different things.
[00:20:26]
[00:20:26] Speaker 3: Hey, quick pause. If you've been listening to Lonely at the Top and something's landed, a story, a line, a moment that hit different, I wanna hear about it. Feedback shapes where my show goes, and I read every message. If what you're carrying right now is bigger than a comment, if there's a pattern that you're ready to get out of, a decision that feels like you're stuck in it, or a version of yourself you're ready to leave behind, I'm opening a limited number of discounted magic sessions for listeners this month.
[00:20:56] One session, real movement. The link is in the show [00:21:00] notes. Come find out what's actually possible when someone sees to the heart of what's going on and can help you get out. That's it. Back to the episode
[00:21:13] Fernanda: It's
[00:21:14] Rachel: Okay, so when you're at the top, no one really gets to see your balance sheet of burdens. But here in the show, we like to open our guest's private ledger.
[00:21:24] So yeah, can you tell us one cost you paid for being in leadership?
[00:21:33] Fernanda: Oh my gosh. Hmm. So, okay. So like I'm 48 now, post midlife crisis. And when I was in leadership at the height, I would say at the peak of my corporate career I had zero boundaries with work why did I have the zero boundaries? I can tell you from the work I've done on myself, you know, hindsight [00:22:00] being 20/20, a lot of it has to do with kind of like low self-esteem and wanting to prove yourself and overly relying on external validation for your job satisfaction and your how you measure success.
[00:22:19] So in, in, in my case, I've always been somebody who has had a full life. Like I'm one of those people who isn't just doing two things. I'm doing 30 things all the time. Like Fernanda's got a lot going on, okay? And even, even at the peak of my career, I had a lot going on. I've always loved to do hobbies outside of work, like dancing and language learning.
[00:22:43] So I speak five languages and I dance salsa and bachata and Brazilian zouk, which is my new favorite dance style. And
[00:22:53] Rachel: I've tried that. It's fun
[00:22:54] Fernanda: oh my goodness, I love it so much. So even at the peak of my career when I was [00:23:00] working way too many hours, I would say around 50 to 70 hours a week, depending on the situation, I was still managing my household, my kids I have three kids my husband and you know, my hobbies and my friends and the meetup groups I was hosting meetups for language practice, okay?
[00:23:23] Rachel: So you never slept
[00:23:25] Fernanda: I slept little and I-- You know what I wasn't doing? I wasn't taking care of myself my body, my stress levels. w- I've, I've had issues with weight gain over my life and that peak in my career was a time where my weight was getting higher and higher because of all this other stuff that was happening.
[00:23:46] I was also traveling globally. I was traveling to Poland a lot for a special project and then, you know, other parts of Europe, which wa- Don't get me wrong, I love Poland, I love traveling to Europe, but it was [00:24:00] every month I was on an
[00:24:01] airplane. And so, I remember just feeling crummy, like my body was, I just wasn't feeling good.
[00:24:09] I was starting to have aches and pains. I was potentially pre-diabetic although I wasn't officially diagnosed. Sleeping terrible. I wasn't even dancing as much as I used to love to dance. And so, you know, I think that's a sacrifice that a lot of corporate leaders . Oh, I apologize for that.
[00:24:30] a lot of corporate leaders sacrifice their own health or their, even their downtime or their family time just to prove something. What, what are we trying to prove? What are we trying... So like nowadays, I look
[00:24:46] Rachel: Oh, you know I can answer
[00:24:47] Fernanda: "Ah, yes, Rachel, enlighten me. What, what, what were we trying to prove?"
[00:24:54] Rachel: You're trying to prove that you're worthy.
[00:24:56] Fernanda: Yes. Yes
[00:24:57] Rachel: That's all people are ever trying to prove, and they [00:25:00] can't because you can't prove something that's just a constant. But everyone everywhere is hustling for worthiness in some way or another. And I'll just take this moment to tell you, you already are. It has nothing to do with what you do in life. You have inherent worth
[00:25:20] Fernanda: as a human being, right? As just be... Yeah
[00:25:25] Rachel: Just because, and not just because of being an entity that exists, but there is, I mean, from my perspective you belong because you're a part of the great one, and we are not separate from that. We are not separate from the world. We are not separate from the animals. We all have inherent value, just like every dog.
[00:25:47] For anybody, most people who love dogs, I say, you know, even when you see a, you know, an ugly dog that's misshapen and, you know. I mean, think about Jimothy, the, that raccoon in Seattle that's like... And people [00:26:00] love Jimothy. Like, every being has worth, and it's a lie that our brains make up because of the circumstances we grew up in when you think you don't
[00:26:12] Fernanda: I, yeah, thank you for saying that and I completely agree. And if you and I were having this conversation 15 years ago would have been like, What?" Like, "What a novel concept." Like I, I, up, up until that point, I wasn't thinking that deeply about these topics of worth and external validation versus internal validation.
[00:26:36] Not having to prove, right? Like, or learning, that I don't have to prove. I'm a person. I have other qualities in my life that have nothing to do with work, and work shouldn't and doesn't define me, right?
[00:26:52] Um, and not, having gone through this experience this past year of, being laid off and [00:27:00] deciding to go a different path and m- make a life change and a career pivot I've also been hanging out with a lot of retirees through my language groups, 'cause usually when I go to language groups, there's a, a larger percentage of folks who are retired 'cause they're learning a new language in retirement.
[00:27:21] And I, w- we know, we don't talk about, we don't say, "What do you do?" when you're talking to retirees, or are you gonna say like, "Oh, what did you used to do?" Like that's kinda... That's not great either, right? So
[00:27:37] Rachel: So what do you say instead?
[00:27:39] Fernanda: "Oh uh, you got any trips planned? What are you up to these days?"
[00:27:43] Like, "Are you learning? Are there any other languages?" You know, usually depending on the retiree, they are planning trips or they just went on a trip or What did you do this weekend?" "Oh, I spent time with my grandkids." "Oh, how old are your grandkids?" [00:28:00] Like, there's other stuff you can talk about that's not how a, a job defines you, you know?
[00:28:06] Rachel: I feel like I was remiss too, and I'm guessing people listening to the show might be also curious. You said you speak five languages. English is obviously one of them. Can you tell us what the other four are?
[00:28:19] Fernanda: Portuguese is my first language, French is my third, Spanish is my fourth, and Italian is my fifth language. And I, I'm a lang- I'm a language nerd. I love speaking languages and learning, and I think I'm gonna try to learn, I've tried German and Polish in the past and I will go back to those.
[00:28:40] They're just really difficult.
[00:28:42] Rachel: Well, and they're different, right? I mean, as far as I understand it, French and Spanish, and I think also Italian, shares some similarities. Like I, studied French in high school. I am remedially capable. Like I can get by [00:29:00] and have like basic conversations without being too stymied. So when I started learning Spanish, it was much easier because so many of the rules are similar and, you know, there's the same thing where if you just put an accent on an English word, chances are it might be Spanish or it might be French.
[00:29:16] Like you, you know?
[00:29:18] Fernanda: Right. Right. It's true. They are similar and if I keep going with the romance languages I think there's Romanian I can go to next and maybe, maybe a Catalan from the Barcelona area and just keep, you know, we'll see. Maybe there's some more others that I can I'll let you know in a few years, Rachel, what else I'm
[00:29:40] Rachel: Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to pick up some Japanese, and I would like to someday get a little bit of Korean. I mean, I know, like, a few words, but we're, we're hoping to travel to Japan next year. So I feel like it is both respectful of a culture but also interesting to me as kind of a language nerd [00:30:00] myself to start to understand, how people think in a different language.
[00:30:07] I really love the movie Arrival, where there is a really profound meaning that is the allegory, I guess, or it's not even allegory. It's directly stated, this idea that when you learn to speak another being's language, you learn to understand things through their eyes, and it's a beautiful movie for anybody who hasn't seen it, and it's Amy Adams and a bunch of aliens and her learning to speak their language and what it gifts her with,
[00:30:39] Fernanda: that's a really good movie. and when I speak in somebody else's language, even if I'm not speaking it very well, like say like when I was going to Poland I learned like the kind of Polish you can talk to convenience store clerks and taxi drivers, you know. "What time do you close?
[00:30:57] How much is this? Thank you. [00:31:00] Please." They would be so surprised. They would, like the Polish people, they would be like, "What? She can say these things in Polish?" and then, then they would have a big smile on their face, you know. And it's when you have that kind of reaction from somebody else, you know you're already making a connection, even if you're not 100% fluent in their language.
[00:31:22] So I love that. Love that feeling.
[00:31:24] Rachel: M- I do too. I do too. And my husband he's a very, very white guy, and he speaks fluent Mandarin. And so it's really fun whenever he engages people who are speaking Mandarin. Like, he's brokered all kinds of alliances in the local, you know, like recreational basketball leagues because there'll be a bunch of Chinese people just playing by themselves, and he'll go and speak to them, and they're like, "What?"
[00:31:51] It's, it's really fun to watch the astonishment on people's face especially when you unexpectedly can speak and [00:32:00] share their language.
[00:32:01] Fernanda: Yeah, I love that. I wish, I wish I was watching your husband talk to the Chinese people 'cause I just love that moment. I lo-
[00:32:10] Rachel: I know. I should film it sometime because they're all, they always, it always goes like this. Whatever it is they're saying, he offers to help or he chimes in or something in a way that's like not just annoying and invasive, but like has a reason. And they always go, "Oh, oh, oh." And then they say whatever it is you say in Mandarin that's like, "What?
[00:32:30] You speak Chinese? This person's speaking Chinese? No, no way." And then he'll say something like, "Yes, I'm, yeah, I, I do," and you know, something. And then they'll say, "Oh, your Chinese is so good." And he'll say, "No, no, no," because that is the cultural thing you do is say no, not, you know, whatever.
[00:32:47] Fernanda: I
[00:32:48] Rachel: It's, but every time that's the cycle.
[00:32:50] I need to learn the Mandarin words for that part of the exchange so that I can repeat it. [00:33:00] I have just forever ruined my husband's, for anybody who knows him, I've ruined his two truths and a lie because no one ever th- when you say as one of your truths, "I speak Mandarin," and you're a white guy, m- people always think that's the lie.
[00:33:14] Fernanda: Well, now everybody knows. It's out. It's
[00:33:16] Rachel: Everybody who listens to this, all 30 people listening to this podcast know. Okay, let me come back to your private ledger, and let's find out one invisible asset that you didn't realize you had at the time
[00:33:31] Fernanda: Hmm. Invisible asset that I didn't realize I had. So interestingly enough, at the time when I was going through that period where I wasn't taking care of myself and it was very stressful and I had no boundaries one of my invisible assets that now I am very aware of, and I know it's very visible now to me, is the relationships, the connections with people.
[00:33:58] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:59] Fernanda: something that [00:34:00] I've always been strong at, But at the time, I didn't recognize it, and I wasn't giving myself both the credit or the nurturing to make it stronger or to lean into that, like meeting somebody new and making that connection and earning their trust fairly quickly is something that I think is a strength of mine now.
[00:34:23] But at the time, I was just like numbers, numbers, no- KPIs, you know, leading my team and, you know, getting the approval of my VP boss and getting to the next level, you know. I was, for many years, I was trying to be a director, and then I was a director, and for a while there, I wanted to be a senior director and whatever.
[00:34:43] I wasn't thinking about like, "Oh, Fernanda, you actually have this strength that maybe other people don't have, I could have been leveraging," but I wasn't.
[00:34:54] Rachel: Yeah. I mean, you probably ended up doing it somewhat because that's probably how you rose [00:35:00] in ranks 'cause people don't promote people they don't like. But I hear what you're saying. It could've been more, right? We whenever we look back we're like, "I did not realize how young and cute I was and I could've been using that more.
[00:35:12] I didn't realize how smart I was. I didn't realize how much people actually liked being around me, and I could've..." Yeah. Okay, so tell us last thing from your private ledger, one investment you're making now for your wellbeing or for your soul
[00:35:32] Fernanda: Okay. So, I think a lot about, as an entrepreneur now, I think a lot about investments and how am I gonna use the revenue that's coming in. Because there was a time here in the past year where I wasn't earning anything. So when you're not earning anything, you're like, well, if you have savings, it's painful to see your savings declining, right?
[00:35:54] And I have two answers to this, if you don't mind. Like,
[00:35:58] Rachel: Yeah, please go ahead
[00:35:59] Fernanda: I [00:36:00] always tell nowadays that I have this new knowledge of entrepreneurship post-corporate. Anybody I meet who is still in corporate, who dreams of becoming an entrepreneur in the future, I tell them, "Invest in your development with your salary."
[00:36:18] Because a lot of corporate employees, they have the mentality, and I, I had that mentality of like, "Oh, I need coaching, but I'm only gonna get coaching if my company pays for it." Or like somebody who, for example, somebody who wants to get a PMP certification. "Oh, I wanna get a PMP, but I needed my company to approve," right?
[00:36:40] My advice now that I know better is like, "No, girl. No. your PM- pay for your PMP with your salary if that's really what you want." You know what I mean?
[00:36:49] Rachel: If the company won't do it
[00:36:51] Fernanda: If the company won't do it, exactly. 'Cause a lot of times the companies won't do it for whatever reason. There's political reasons, there's budget [00:37:00] constraints, there's like misalignment with whatever.
[00:37:03] Like say this person wants a PMP, but they're not in project management. Like why would their company even pay for that? You know what I mean? Like it's just an example. So that's one of my recommendations for folks who still have a flow of salary, is invest in your own development. Even if your company won't pay for it, you pay for it with your salary 'cause you have a salary.
[00:37:28] And then when you become an entrepreneur, you won't have to worry about that 'cause you'll have already paid for it. That's one advice. And then, but you asked me what am I investing in now for my own wellbeing, and I, I'm happy to tell you, Rachel, that even throughout my time, my drought of not earning any money, the little that I brought in, some of it went to a dance festival fund because
[00:37:55] Rachel: Ooh
[00:37:57] Fernanda: So I have, I have my, my [00:38:00] savings accounts that have nicknames, and I've always been good at saving, and I save for travel, I save for a new car, I save for you know, my business and whatever.
[00:38:10] So I created a dance festival fund because I love going to dance festivals so much. It makes me so happy. And I've been to three or four in the past two years, and they're amazing. They're like a weekend retreat where you're taking workshops and dancing all night. So, um,
[00:38:29] Rachel: okay, we need the names. Those of us who love dance need the names of some festivals like this, So
[00:38:35] people hear things, they wanna
[00:38:37] Fernanda: you're in, you're in San Francisco, right?
[00:38:40] Rachel: I'm in San Diego.
[00:38:41] Fernanda: Diego. Okay, that's... Okay. Well, maybe you could... So I'm sure San Diego has some good ones. I haven't been, but in San Francisco, there's San Francisco Salsa Bachata Kizomba Zouk, S- SBKZ. It's in November right before Thanksgiving. [00:39:00] It's really, really great.
[00:39:01] I went there two years ago. Uh, New York International Salsa Congress, New York SBKZ. There's one in Washington, DC that I was going to couple of weeks from now, but it got postponed, but it's called DCBX. It's a bachata congress. Anyway, so now I'm either gonna spend my dance festival fund in one in Colorado that's gonna happen at the end of September, or, or that's called, it's called CALDAC, and I-- don't ask me what the acronym is, but it's CALDAC, C-A-L-D-A-C, something
[00:39:39] Rachel: So what I'm hearing is look for wherever, like whatever major city you're in or nearby, and look up that plus the words salsa, bachata ki- kizombe, zouk. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Sorry, I said that wrong,
[00:39:55] didn't I?
[00:39:56] Fernanda: Yeah, kizomba. No, no problem. No
[00:39:58] Rachel: Kizomba. Yeah,
[00:39:59] Fernanda: yeah, [00:40:00] yeah.
[00:40:01] Rachel: Yes, Latin, Latin dance. Yeah, that is... So this is the way
[00:40:05] Fernanda: I'm gonna be the person who's trying to convert everybody into becoming dancers, right? So like,
[00:40:10] if I go to a social event, I'm like, "Hey, come dancing with me."
[00:40:15] Rachel: I do that too, yeah.
[00:40:17] Fernanda: you do that too? What, what dances do you
[00:40:19] Rachel: I do. so Dance was kind of my road back to a lot of things. When I was in my 20s, I was just looking to get back in shape and at the gym they had Nia, which is a dance form some people definitely know and lots of people don't. But imagine, imagine Zumba's like, hippy-dippy modern dance cousin with less good music.
[00:40:46] Fernanda: Oh, nice. Nice
[00:40:48] Rachel: so it was, And it's danced barefoot so it's, it's low impact. But the teacher that I found was really good at bringing pop music into it, and I just, [00:41:00] I had forgotten how much I loved dance. I used- I did dance all through high school like modern and tap. And so fi- coming back to dance and being like, "Oh my gosh, I forget how much this makes me come alive," I would turn my whole life, my whole schedule around to go to dance classes.
[00:41:18] And so I was with that for years. temples fade is one of my mantras. Or it's not a mantra, but like an acknowledgement. When you find really good stuff at a place, oftentimes the magic of it will fade, and that's something that happened with that. But I found another place where they did cardio fitness, like dance fitness of different varieties, and so I got into Zumba.
[00:41:43] I had done some salsa back in, and probably bachata, back in Florida when I lived there the first time I went to graduate school. So I have done a lot, but yeah, I love how dance really gets you [00:42:00] into your body and understanding, like, visceral connectivity.
[00:42:08] Fernanda: Yeah
[00:42:09] Rachel: like your understanding of space, your understanding of people.
[00:42:12] you're navigating... I mean, there's a reason why they say senior citizens should really dance for their mental wellness because it is activating so many things, including your need for balance, your need for relationship and space, and your connection with other people.
[00:42:29] Fernanda: Yeah. And it can prevent
[00:42:30] dementia.
[00:42:32] Yeah.
[00:42:32] Rachel: absolutely...
[00:42:33] So we could, we could go on and on about
[00:42:35] Fernanda: could go on and on. It's like you're not-- you're preaching to the choir and and, and I, I would just add, I think you kind of said it, but I'll just add the word presence. Like when you're... Especially if you're in partner dancing, you have to be present to get the signals from your partner, otherwise you
[00:42:54] Rachel: Or to give them.
[00:42:55] Fernanda: To-- Or to give them if you're the lead. Yeah.
[00:42:58] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, [00:43:00] yeah. Yeah, I'm just getting back into partner dance. I have less skill with that because I just have less practice, but I really do love it. I was always just waiting for the right partner.
[00:43:11] Fernanda: Ooh,
[00:43:12] Rachel: I have one, so. I know.
[00:43:15] Fernanda: Yeah,
[00:43:15] Rachel: Okay. So I've got two more questions for you. One is, what do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
[00:43:25] Fernanda: I don't know what I'm doing
[00:43:32] Rachel: Say more
[00:43:33] Fernanda: Yeah. Well, like, 'cause we do see leaders who are kind of... It's very common to see leaders putting a, kind of a facade of like a brave, And I'm not saying that they're living inauthentically, it's just the corporate environment, it's almost like a stage. Everyone's acting. Everyone is putting on a persona, if you will.
[00:43:55] And so we hear of leaders who put on a brave face out in the, in the [00:44:00] world with other people, but then they, behind closed doors, they're crying. and by the way, like I'm a big crier. I don't think there's anything wrong with crying. It's
[00:44:09] Rachel: Agreed.
[00:44:10] Fernanda: healthy expression. But, if somebody is, is looking like they're, they know what they're doing from the outside, but on behind closed doors they're breaking down, there's, there's a dissonance, right?
[00:44:22] And so being able to say, "I don't know what I'm doing," without getting judgment like from others. Like, "Oh, you're a weak leader if you don't know what you're doing," kind of thing is... Yeah. Does that make sense?
[00:44:36] Rachel: It does. It does, yeah. And I agree. You know, not getting judgment from others is probably a lift that we will, you and I and folks like us will spend our lives trying to shift.
[00:44:50] Fernanda: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:51] Rachel: But yeah, even if others judge, being able to say, " Yeah, I'm, I'm in the weeds,
[00:44:57] and, you know, we're gonna [00:45:00] figure it out, but I might need some help," or, "I need a moment to reorient.
[00:45:06] I'm- I need to go consult with my mentors," whatever.
[00:45:09] Fernanda: Yep
[00:45:10] Rachel: Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to say it, but it is important and honoring at the right times.
[00:45:17] Fernanda: Yeah
[00:45:18] Rachel: . Okay, before we get to the last question, if people are interested in hearing more about your journey, and I know We didn't actually get into the article, but you write some really interesting pieces on, is it Substack?
[00:45:31] Fernanda: So it's LinkedIn newsletter and my website. And so my website is my name, Fernandabrasileiro.com, and I'm sure it will show on the
[00:45:43] Rachel: It'll be in the show notes. Mm-hmm
[00:45:45] Fernanda: my, by the way, I, love connecting with people on LinkedIn, so if anybody's interested, please send me a connection request.
[00:45:53] And I have a newsletter called Passion for People Development. So passion number [00:46:00] four, people development. . And I try to publish something about once a week if I can, and usually it's topics about leadership. It's personal stories from my time in leadership, and I try to talk a little bit about my framework that I've developed for developing leaders specifically managers who might be struggling.
[00:46:22] And you know, my, framework is all about teaching self-compassion, self-trust, and those things being the foundation for you to be a better leader of others.
[00:46:33] Rachel: Yeah. She's a great writer. So if you want stories from a corporate escapee from the perspective of somebody who really understands self-leadership, you should go check it out, and we'll put it in the show notes.
[00:46:47] Fernanda: Thank you
[00:46:47] so much
[00:46:48] Rachel: so our last question is opening the time machine. If you could go back in time, what would you say to yourself earlier in [00:47:00] your career?
[00:47:01] Fernanda: Oh, geez. I... Oh, man. 'Cause I spent so much of my career having low confidence, low self-esteem, low self-trust really of like, I think I would say so many things, and I don't know if she would listen, but I would be like, "Hey, girl, you don't have to work so hard. You don't have to prove yourself so much.
[00:47:25] You are good as you are. You are already good. You don't have to keep proving that you're, you know, good or, or good enough," right? And so that would be one thing professionally that I would say to her. But personally, I would also, I don't know. I don't know if I would change this or not, because I think when, when I found IFS, which I know you're familiar with, right?
[00:47:49] I found IFS.
[00:47:50] Rachel: Yeah, I use IFS.
[00:47:52] Fernanda: Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. I found it two years ago, and it, like, changed my life. I wish I could have found IFS [00:48:00] when I was 20, 20-something, but maybe I wasn't ready. I think they have the whole thing, like, when the student is ready, the teacher appears.
[00:48:10] Rachel: The teacher appears, yeah
[00:48:11] Fernanda: and so, I wish my younger version of myself would have had access to these kinds of self, introspection type of tools so that she would have found a lot more strength from within at the time when she needed it.
[00:48:29] Yeah.
[00:48:29] Rachel: Yeah, I hear that. If anybody wants to find out more about IFS, we will throw in the show notes. I've written a couple blog posts just kind of giving a, cursory explanation. It's short for internal family systems, and it is remarkable work. It's some of the foundation of how I work with clients, and very transformational. So good shout-out, and we'll just, Y- you know with IFS, you could go in the past and tell and help that [00:49:00] 20-something-year-old exactly that way. Like, "Hey, I'm here in the present, and I have tools for you."
[00:49:06] Fernanda: Yes, definitely. And I know what you mean, and, and for the listeners, definitely look into this with Rachel. It's a big deal. It's transformational. And like I can share from my personal journey, I did a lot of self-journaling for connecting with my inner parts through the IFS methodology, and it was incredibly healing.
[00:49:29] Incredibly healing. So, so I'm definitely an evangelist for IFS. Yeah
[00:49:36] Rachel: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Fernanda. It's
[00:49:40] been a pleasure to have a chat with you
[00:49:43] Fernanda: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited, and thanks to the audience for listening,
[00:49:48] Speaker 4: Thanks for taking a moment to tune in with me today, and thanks for listening to Lonely at the Top. If this conversation resonated today, I hope you'll give yourself permission to [00:50:00] pause and check in with what you might be carrying, because you don't have to hold it all alone. I am an executive coach who works with spiritually inclined powerhouses, especially those who wanna clean up difficult relationships and other secret messes.
[00:50:15] You can learn more at rachealexandria.com. If you know another leader who needs to hear this show, please send it their way, because yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.
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