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Welcome back to Journey to the Sunnyside! If you listened to Part One, we talked about the cultural shift behind the rise of NA drinks. In this episode, we’re pulling back the curtain on the business side. Sean Goldsmith, co-founder of The Zero Proof, shares how he went from blogging about the movement to running one of the largest online NA retailers in the country — with more than 500 SKUs, national distribution, and their own brands. We get into early grind stories, raising capital at the right moment, how they decide which products make the cut, and why 93% of their customers still drink alcohol. This is a great look at what it takes to build a brand inside a movement. Let’s dive in.
Want to drink less with no pressure to quit? Visit https://ctbk.co/4doo5dq for a free 15-day trial of Sunnyside.
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Listen to Journey to the Sunnyside Podcast: https://bit.ly/4bxCqT3
Subscribe to Sunnyside’s YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3zuoID4
CONNECT WITH SUNNYSIDE:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joinsunnyside/
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- Twitter: https://x.com/joinsunnyside
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ABOUT SUNNYSIDE: Sunnyside is the #1 alcohol moderation app that helps you drink less without any shame, guilt, or pressure to quit. Optimize your alcohol habits to achieve benefits like sleeping better, losing weight, feeling more energy, and saving money. We know that an all-or-nothing approach doesn’t work for everyone, so we focus on helping you set your own goals, celebrate small wins, and build a lasting system of accountability. As a result, 96.7% of our members see a big drop in their drinking after 90 days.
Disclaimer: This podcast is not intended as medical advice, and the views of the guests may not represent the views of Sunnyside. If you’re concerned about your health or alcohol use, please consider seeking advice from a doctor.
Want to drink less with no pressure to quit? Visit https://ctbk.co/4doo5dq for a free 15-day trial of Sunnyside.
--
Listen to Journey to the Sunnyside Podcast: https://bit.ly/4bxCqT3
Subscribe to Sunnyside’s YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3zuoID4
CONNECT WITH SUNNYSIDE:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joinsunnyside/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joinsunnyside/
- Twitter: https://x.com/joinsunnyside
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@joinsunnyside
ABOUT SUNNYSIDE: Sunnyside is the #1 alcohol moderation app that helps you drink less without any shame, guilt, or pressure to quit. Optimize your alcohol habits to achieve benefits like sleeping better, losing weight, feeling more energy, and saving money. We know that an all-or-nothing approach doesn’t work for everyone, so we focus on helping you set your own goals, celebrate small wins, and build a lasting system of accountability. As a result, 96.7% of our members see a big drop in their drinking after 90 days.
Disclaimer: This podcast is not intended as medical advice, and the views of the guests may not represent the views of Sunnyside. If you’re concerned about your health or alcohol use, please consider seeking advice from a doctor.
Creators and Guests
What is Journey to the Sunnyside?
Journey to the Sunnyside is a top 1% podcast, reaching over 500,000 listeners every week. It’s your guide to exploring mindful living with alcohol—whether you're cutting back, moderating, or thinking about quitting.
While Sunnyside helps you reduce your drinking, this podcast goes further, diving into topics like mindful drinking, sober curiosity, moderation, and full sobriety. Through real stories, expert insights, and science-backed strategies, we help you find what actually works for your journey.
Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, a #1 best-selling author and neuroscience enthusiast, the show is dedicated to helping people transform their relationship with alcohol—without shame, judgment, or rigid rules.
This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the leading platform for mindful drinking. Want to take the next step in your journey? Head over to sunnyside.co for a free 15-day trial.
Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. We’re committed to sharing diverse perspectives on health and wellness. If you’re concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. Sunnyside, this podcast, and its guests are not necessarily medical providers and the content is not medical advice. We do not endorse drinking in any amount.
Welcome to Journey to the Sunnyside, the podcast that helps you build a better relationship with alcohol and uncover the secrets to mindful living. Each episode brings you real stories, expert insights and practical tools to support your goals. Whether you're cutting back, taking a break, or thinking about quitting for good. I'm your host, Mike Hardinbrook, bestselling author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. This show is brought to you by Sunnyside, a personalized science backed program that helps you to drink less through habit change, coaching, and community.
Speaker 1:And for added support, we now have Sunnyside Med, option offering access to compounded naltrexone, a prescription medication that reduces cravings and helps prevent binge drinking. Ready to start your journey? Get your free fifteen day trial at sunnyside.co. If you listened to part one, we talked about the cultural shift behind the rise of NA drinks. In this episode, we're pulling back the curtain on the business side.
Speaker 1:Sean Goldsmith, co founder of The Zero Proof, shares how he went from blogging about the movement to running one of the largest online NA retailers in the country with more than 500 SKUs, national distribution, and their own brands. We get into early grind stories, raising capital at the right moment, how they decide which products make the cut, and why 93% of their customers still drink alcohol. This is a great look at what it takes to build a brand inside a movement. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2:I wanna talk about, you know, that a lot of people still think about non alcoholic drinks as replacements for alcohol. What do you think is making it its own category in itself?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, I
Speaker 3:think I think early on people that don't drink really drove this category forward. They were the the fanatics and and frankly continue to be. But the big adoption and the big growth opportunity frankly where most of our customers are, are alcohol drinkers. I think what makes this its own category today is you are just seeing wider and wider adoption by the public at large. Like we were talking about the distributors and restaurants and, you know, more and more alcohol drinkers are looking for great beverages without alcohol for certain occasions.
Speaker 3:And also, you just look around, I mean, these drinks are they're everywhere and they literally have their own shelf in retailers. You know? They all Total Wine, the biggest alcohol retailer in The United States has a giant nonalcoholic shelf where you can
Speaker 2:Sprouts find is like cup is just filled with NA options these days, I feel.
Speaker 3:Sprouts has a great set. Whole Foods is building out a larger set. Target. So I mean they're all leaning in and they are dedicating resources specifically to this category. And you know, so I think, when when you have a category buyer somewhere like a Target or a Walmart, I think that is a good sign that it is it is a category.
Speaker 2:I mean, it makes sense. I mean, every now, every, I don't know how many x years, a new category is created, where it just you know, if you think about what's a category, like, think about Red Bull. Like, Red Bull didn't exist, then it did. Now energy drinks is now an entire category. Then it was for alcohol.
Speaker 2:It was craft beer. You know, we just had domestic beers for like decades and craft beer came out and it was massive. Now we have NA options, which is its own category and it's taking off, which is just amazing to see. And, you know, it's funny. I went to I went to the it's called the Joe con Joe Concert.
Speaker 2:So DJO. It's a it's a group that's pretty well known. Actually, the lead singer's the one of the actors in Stranger Things, that TV And, yeah, they're actually are legit, like, band. So I went and I took my kids because my daughter's a big fan. My wife thinks he's dreamy.
Speaker 2:And so we went last night, but it was crazy because, know, obviously this is gen z and some of the other generations and it had a lot of a lot of people were carrying around liquid death. They had NA options. They had athletic beer. Sorry to say that I still paid $14 for my athletic brewing tallboy. So that hurt me a little bit, you know?
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's that there's just something definitely that you're seeing evolve more and more. So let's talk a little bit about Zero Proof as a business. You know, we've been mentioning it and you've been giving us cultural insights and your own story, but give us the nuts and bolts of like what you actually do, what you do that's unique and maybe a little bit about, you know, from beginning to now as far as growth.
Speaker 3:Sure. Yeah. So, so again, we started this just as a blog, thezeroproof.com and then six months or so after we we started selling online in a very small way. And so that's that's how we started with blogging and e commerce. As these European brands started to reach out, well not just European brands from all over the world started to reach out.
Speaker 3:We started importing those into The United States and offering those on the website. But then, I also bought a f one fifty and and our wholesale business was born. And so, you know, we started wholesaling in a small way, just getting product out there in our local markets, which were Atlanta and Charleston. Luckily, two good markets that we're adopting into the trend. But fast forward to today and the 0proof.com is the largest online retailer for the category.
Speaker 3:We have wine, beer, spirits, cocktails, functional beverages, really across the spectrum, probably about 500 SKUs. And using the brand and the reach and the audience that we've built on the website, you know, we have launched a couple of our own brands in addition to the brands that we wholesale. Like, and so we import a brand called Oddbird and Ish and Nista. And we've started a couple brands called Lappos, which is Italian cocktails and aperitivo and a wine brand called Saint Viviana. And so we're pushing those out into wholesale.
Speaker 3:We're working with alcohol distributors and food distributors to get them into bars and restaurants and grocery stores around the country. And there's a nice interplay between the website and our wholesale business and that we're able to get the word out to customers very quickly about different brands. And we also see what's happening. We know what people are buying and what they're leaning into and where they are. So it helps us to be better wholesalers of product and better partners to our retailers to help make sure that the brands that we're getting on shelf are successful.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I mean, in terms of growth, geez, I mean, we were five X ing. I think we five X ed our first year, three or four X ed our next year, two or three X ed. So we've had some pretty significant growth and, you know, we're still doubling every year. And in in wholesale where we're really leaning in, you know, we're we're still tripling that business on an annual basis. So, you know, it's been it's been really fantastic growth but I also wanna stress that I think the best is yet to come where we're having these major stakeholders buy in and I think the growth that we in the category are going to see from here on forward is gonna be much bigger than in the past.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I can't wait to see what the future looks like. It's nice to imagine. It's hard to know for sure, but there's it's definitely gonna be different. And I love your story.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's like true. Just just get something out there, put something people like, like literally hit the pavement, you know, going out. Why don't you share like one of the personal, maybe tougher moments in those early days of turning that idea into reality?
Speaker 3:Oh, man. So many. But I mean, I'll share one that was a repeated tough moment where So I was living in Augusta, Georgia. We moved from Manhattan to Augusta, Georgia, but we're really focusing on the Atlanta market to build our business. And so two or three times a week, I would drive from Augusta to Atlanta, which is a two to three hour drive one way to go and try to knock on a few doors or take one important meeting that would sometimes get canceled.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, I mean, it was just for a while, it was just me. And so I was running a website. I was driving between Atlanta and Augusta to go sell wholesale. I was answering customer service emails. I was shipping product out the door.
Speaker 3:I was trying to raise money. And you know, it was, without pointing to something super specific that period of time where I was waking up at 4AM and working until 10PM, was was very taxing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The hustler's journey right there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I mean, it was not something I could have done forever. So glad we're out of that phase, but a good lesson. And, know, up until recently, we were doing our own fulfillment and I will kind of a specific moment. Every Black Friday and then dry January, know, we only had two warehouse guys.
Speaker 3:So the entire team, we would have to get in at 4AM and pack as many boxes as we could. And, you know, then at seven or eight actually start work. So it was just a grind and even as the team grew, I think that's one of the reasons we've had so much success is everybody's been willing to pitch in and you know, really lean in and do whatever's necessary to help the business grow.
Speaker 2:I'm curious to know, so you have your team, like what really around like, I guess your values and what pushes you? You guys probably all share the same like passion around something. What is that? Is it like, we wanna provide something that's delicious. We wanna make the world know about, you know, this option?
Speaker 2:What really drives you guys?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, we've we're we're very fortunate. We're a relatively small team. You know, we have we have 15 full time employees and a number of other folks that we work with and on a contractor basis. But we've we've attracted believers which is which is awesome and I think what makes everybody really excited is that, I mean, we are we are riding this wave of a major trend and we are helping shape it in a meaningful way.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that everybody involved in this category as as hokey as it sounds, like we're literally changing the world. We're out there getting these drinks onto retail shelves and working with restaurants to help them get these drinks on their menus And helping people to present these awesome beverages and new options to more people. And you know, as we continue to do that, it's just going to take time before people just realize and they're like, oh yeah, it's just part of normal life. Whereas I can tell you five years ago, as I was driving around door to door trying to sell one bottle of a non alcoholic spirit, like it was, you've come a long way.
Speaker 2:You know, I like these conversations around whenever I have them like I did with Bill at at Athletic and Marcus over at Rich. Well, it's like the fun side of, like, not the not the alcohol space. So, like, maybe we're talking about habits change. Maybe we're just talking about a new drink, but it's actually, like, fun now. Whereas before, I felt like as I mentioned, the the alcoholic uncle that can't drink anymore, it's like, wah wah, it's the next best thing.
Speaker 2:I can't drink anymore. I'm just gonna have this instead of water. You know, like, now it's actually cool, great brands, like exciting packaging, adaptogens and, know, maybe THC and some of these and delta nines and CBD and, you know, you name it. Like there's so much like optionality now that it's actually like an exciting thing, let alone like flavors and improving taste and all of that. So like I can imagine that the momentum's just feels a lot different for you on on the inside, looking And,
Speaker 3:you know, we've we've got great brands and great products that we work with just like Bill and Marcus that you mentioned. And I mean, when you have a great product and you have a major trend behind you and kind of the market is opening up, you know, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Speaking of that, so I'd love to know like, how do you decide what products or brands that make it into your site or that you work with?
Speaker 3:We're definitely a lot more selective these days. But we keep it pretty simple. Know, there's no real magic sauce, but we try everything. And so we get samples to the office and if you were to see our office, I mean, stacks of drinks everywhere. Stuff is showing up from all over the world.
Speaker 3:But we we taste it as a team. We compare notes and I mean, base case, it it has to taste great. Like it has to be something that we like and we would drink ourselves. And then from there, you know, now that we have 500 something products on the website, we just wanna make sure that it fits in and adds value beyond what we have. And, you know, it's, you're starting to see a lot more competition in this space and it's, we're more selective, but retailers across the board are getting more selective.
Speaker 3:You know, why would a why would a retailer need another non alcoholic sparkling wine? You know, so we're we're looking for things that are interesting and better and different than the things that we're carrying now.
Speaker 2:What are some of the misconceptions that people are just getting introduced to NA? Like for example, like, oh, it's just a drink substitute.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, think, I think
Speaker 3:probably the biggest misconception that I run into is that it's only sober people that are buying these drinks, which as we've mentioned a couple times in the discussion, it's ninety three percent of the folks buying these drinks are alcohol drinkers. So, you know, it's really folks that are just looking for a premium non alcoholic alternative to mix in to their routine to be a little bit healthier. So, yeah, I I think that's the biggest one. And I think I think the other is, you know, as I'm at, I was just at a big kind of grocery conference in Vegas and everybody's really excited about the category. And I think because this category gets so much attention in the media, people think it is maybe bigger than it is.
Speaker 3:I mean it's growing, know, it's multi billion dollar category. But I think that the growth like we've talked about is really yet to come. Like I still meet people all the time who will learn what I do and they say, Oh, you know, I just had an athletic brewing. I just found out about this brand for the first time. And I mean, Bill is the man and he's built an incredible business, but I mean athletic is everywhere.
Speaker 3:And so the fact that people are still saying to me every week that they just discovered athletic brewing, I think means that there is a tremendous amount of growth left in this category.
Speaker 2:Isn't it crazy how you can be in a category for so long or in an industry and think that it's almost old news, but it isn't because your mind just can't fathom them that the mass size or the scale of like the general public being informed about a certain product or category because it just it's so large and it's just something's gonna be brand new for something even if you think it's like been around forever and everybody knows about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I mean, it's, but it's it's great news for all of us and and there's a lot of, there's a lot of open field.
Speaker 2:So as that space grows and gets bigger and more players enter it, how do you see the zero proof positioning itself? Anything gonna change?
Speaker 3:I don't think we're changing drastically. You know, we're looking for more interesting and exclusive products to sell on our website. You know, because of our position online, we get a lot of great looks from brands all over the world that wanna launch. So like for example, there's a Rose brand from Provence called Axe, A I X, that's pretty well known. And they launched a non alk sparkling rose called Boviva.
Speaker 3:And they came to us. They asked us if we would launch them in The US online in partnership. We said yes. And we were sending one of our customers to Provence for a week as part of that giveaway. So as more big brands get involved and kind of more, there's more investment in the space, you know, we're able to do these really cool launches and just kind of continue to gain exposure and bring cool experiences and products to our customers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you just saying that makes me want to go on your side and poke around a little bit and see, you know, if I could send you a little bit of money in exchange for some good products. So yeah. So if if you wanna tell people where to go, where
Speaker 1:they can learn a little
Speaker 2:bit more about what you're doing and check out some of your products, you know, can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're easy to find. It's www.thezeroproof.com. So you'll be able to easily navigate and check out all of the products that you would like. And we also created a discount special for Sunnyside members. And so when you're checking out, if you just type in Sunnyside15, you know, Sunnyside15, that'll be 15% off for anybody listening to this podcast.
Speaker 2:I love it. So anybody that's very generous of you, thanks for offering that to everybody listening. And Sean, this has been an incredible conversation. I'm so glad we got to meet. Thanks for walking us through like the cultural shifts from your perspective, where you're going with the business, where some of these brands are going, and just, you know, I'm excited about the incredible growth and success that you've been seeing.
Speaker 2:So thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Thank you, Mike. Enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Journey to the Sunnyside is brought to you by Sunnyside, a personalized science backed program that's already helped over 500,000 people cut out more than 24,000,000 drinks. No matter where you are on your journey to build healthier drinking habits, Sunnyside meets you where you are. And now with Sunnyside Med, you can access compounded naltrexone, a doctor prescribed medication proven to reduce cravings and prevent binge drinking, giving you the peace of mind you need to make lasting change. If you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co for a free fifteen day trial.