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What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team and systems, mastering money issues, and more; then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth-generating law firm? That’s what we do each week on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hosted by Davina Frederick, founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer –– every episode is an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve (and will pay you on time), and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. The goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund, and still have time to enjoy, the lifestyle of your dreams.
Is everybody a great guest? Are there certain things that make the timing right for us to be a good guest on a podcast?
Julie:Great question. So there's a couple of trigger events. One I would say is you've been in business for a while, and that could be 3 years for some people, 5 years. But to the point where you have very consistent revenue, you have a line item in your budget for marketing if you're looking to hire out the guesting piece, and paying somebody to
Davina:get you on podcast like an agency
Julie:like ours. But that you're, but that you're clear on your messaging. So once you know what your expertise is, how you help clients, what you're bringing to the table.
Intro:Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers? Ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more. Then take an insight or 2 to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love.
Intro:Divina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now here's Devina.
Davina:Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Devina Frederick. And my guest today is Julie Frey. Julie is the founder of Your Expert Guest, a podcast guest booking agency for women making an impact who want to be heard by their ideal client without spending hours on social media. She and her team have booked 1,000 of interviews for their clients and can track 100 of 1,000 of dollars of business back to being a podcast guest on top ranked shows, which she's not working with her amazing team of guest and host matchmakers.
Davina:She loves spending time with her family, coal plunging, kayaking, and laughing hysterically at SNL sketches and, of course, listening to podcasts. So please help me welcome Julie Frey to the Wealthed Woman Lawyer podcast. So hi, Julie. It's good to see you. It's good to have you here.
Julie:Hi, Divina. It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Davina:So for those who don't, know, Julie has actually referred some people to me to the podcast. She is one of those experts that reaches out to me sometimes with really great guest ideas and, has been able to contribute to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. So, Julie, I appreciate that. And so she and I decided that it'd be good to bring her on and have a discussion about podcasting and specifically about being a guest on a podcast. It's a great topic, to discuss because a lot of people ask me questions about podcasting in general and certainly about being a guest on a podcast.
Davina:I've been guest on quite a few, and I've, of course, in the last 5 years, had many, many guests on my podcast. So why don't you start out by telling us a little bit about your what led you to the world of helping women specifically get more airtime on podcasts?
Julie:Yes. I love answering this question. So prior to this business, I, for 7 years, had a networking organization, and it was specifically for women balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship. And I'm in Seattle, so we had local events here in Seattle. I partnered with other women to do similar events in other parts of the country, and then we had a annual conference every year.
Julie:So, I started that when my kids were 35. And about 2019, started having the just murmurs that I was ready for something different. My kids were getting older and decided to put the business up for sale. And in January of 2020, it sold, very fortuitous
Davina:for me. Congratulations. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah.
Julie:The timing of that. The pandemic. And I spent a little bit of time thinking about what I wanted to do next. And a big part of what I did through the organization was connect people. I never really realized, you know, how you you have these gifts and these superpowers, and it's things that come easily to you and not to other people.
Julie:And I just thought everybody always thought whenever they met somebody like, oh, who should Devina know? She needs to know this person, this person, this person. So in March, when live events started shutting down, I, was talking to some of my friends who are speakers, and they were panicking because live events all over were getting canceled. And I've been a long time podcast listener since the mid 2000. And one morning, I was walking my dog and listening to a podcast, and I had the light bulb moment of, gosh, I could start a business connecting speakers.
Julie:At that time, I was kind of focused just on speakers to podcasts to maintain their visibility. So I started that in, May of 2020, and we've grown organically ever since. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So what a wonderful story.
Julie:I love that you built a business and sold it.
Davina:I think that's so fabulous when I hear that because oftentimes I hear of, people building businesses and then being unable to sell it. So before we get into the podcast, just give us a little insight into what you think you had in place that made it a valuable business for you to sell. You had to have had some systems and some people.
Julie:Yes. Yes. So I actually that was my intention, and, honestly, I bought the business. So I did. I started from ground zero.
Julie:I bought it from somebody else. And, going through that process, just I always had from the very beginning knowing that at some point, I would want to sell it. So making sure that you're working with a bookkeeper to have accurate books. And, you know, there are some things that you can do to make it more attractive for sellers knowing that that's your end goal. I definitely had standard operating procedures.
Julie:So making sure that somebody who comes in and takes over has a playbook so they can follow what you're doing and continue to do it uninterrupted. I think those were really the the big keys and then having a small team, to run the back end of the business as well. Mhmm. So those, I think, were the 3 three main criteria that made it attractive.
Davina:I appreciate you sharing that because it's something we as women law firm owners discuss a lot is, you know, are we building a business that we can sell and what does that require? So it's fun to hear other in other industries, other women buy, get, selling businesses and what they were looking for. So thanks for sharing that.
Julie:I was just like Definitely. Definitely. A little rabbit trail. It pains me when I see people just shutting down a business that they could have sold. And I think that happens a lot with women.
Davina:Yeah. I think so too. We and we could probably go down that path and talk a lot about that, but let's let's go back to podcasting. You talk about guest podcasting. So, yeah, this idea, you jumped in and you started that.
Davina:And and I think it's interesting you talked about sort of having this natural gift of connecting people because, I I know I think often people who are connectors don't realize that that's a unique gift. There are a lot of people out there who don't think that way. And I'm probably one of them. I'm not a huge you know, I'm not always thinking, oh, I need to connect this person to this person. And I've met so many I've met people through the years that where it just comes so naturally.
Davina:Do you think there is there was a point in your career where you sort of learned that skill, or have you always been like that as a little kid? Hey. Meet my friend.
Julie:I was really shy as a little kid, which surprises a lot of people. I I think and I think it was in my previous career, which was, corporate sales, business development, where I was doing a lot of traveling to Walmart, Target, you know, buyer locations, and then trade shows were a big part of what I had to do. And when you're at trade shows, you're talking to the other exhibitors and the other manufacturers. And I think that's kind of when it started is I'd be talking to somebody and they would say, oh, we need a new accountant. And I refer them to the accountant we used.
Julie:And just noticing and being curious about what people needed or what seemed to be pain points for them and paying attention and seeing if I could help provide a solution. So I think that's kinda when it started for me. Right? Do you,
Davina:when you're doing that, do you do that kind of thinking, well, they'll refer back to me or No.
Julie:No. It is more just in the spirit of being helpful. And that's what I I'm trying to remember. There is somebody here that has kind of a framework about personality types and that super connectors do it just for the joy of connecting. They don't expect anything in return.
Davina:Right. Right. So you had some interesting statistics that you shared with me on podcast. I wanna share these and get you to talk about them a little more. One is that there are over 4,000,000 podcasts.
Davina:I'm assuming this is in the US, and that 55 5% of people in the US have listened to a podcast. That's a 155,000,000 people, and 80% of podcast listeners listen to almost all of the podcast episode. So tell me a little bit more about these statistics and why you think they're important for us to know.
Julie:Yeah. So, the over 4,000,000 and, actually, it's over 5,000,000 now, and that's globally. So the the one thing to notice about that statistic though is a fraction of those are actually active podcasts like yours that are publishing new episodes on a regular cadence. That number is more around the half a 1000000 mark. So Wow.
Julie:There are a lot of people that say, hey. I'm gonna start a podcast and then get 7 episodes deep and say, I
Davina:don't think I would. Hey. I'm not gonna do it anymore.
Julie:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a big time commitment.
Julie:If you're having somebody manage your podcast for you, it's a significant expense. So there's just a lot that goes into producing a podcast. If you have inter interviews, you have to get guests. And then, the the fact that 80% of people are listening to most or all of the episode, I think, is really key. And it's the only place in marketing right now where you could have that level of undivided attention and people listening to what you have to say.
Julie:You know, if you're on social media and you're scrolling, I I think it's you have 6 seconds to capture somebody's attention. Podcasts live on indefinitely. So, the first episode that I ever recorded as a guest with somebody was in 2014, and I still, 10 years later, have people say, Lena, I heard you on this podcast recently.
Davina:Wow. So the longevity is something that people are putting out there that's huge because the reel you put on Instagram is still not popping up 10 years later. That's No. I mean, much less 30 minutes later. Yeah.
Davina:So it's
Julie:a Well It's it's a very blue ocean is the way that I like
Davina:to think about it. And Yeah. If you
Julie:have, ocean is the way that I like to think about it. And Yeah. If you have a unique point of view, thought leadership, a book. Obviously, we're talking about women law firm owners. It's a great way to either build referral partners or speak directly to your target audience.
Davina:Right. Right. And I wanna I wanna dig into a little bit about kind of, like, you know, how that can help women law firm owners specifically. But I wanna go back to, what you said about the listenership of podcasts and what I think makes it different too is, you know, we don't listen to a lot of long form content anymore. Most people were so, you know, adapted to scrolling social media that we don't listen to anything for a length of time.
Davina:And for a lot of us, whose lawyers we spend our days reading Yes. And talking to people. And so the last thing a lot of us wanna do at night is go home and read for relaxation. You know? And I find that podcasts are things that people can listen to and engage in while they're doing other things.
Davina:So running, walking, doing the dishes, driving on the car, all of those things. So you have somebody's undivided attention for how whatever long it takes them to do that activity. 30 minutes, an hour, or however long. I know I've had clients tell me that they, binge on my podcast. They'll take a trip and they'll binge on my podcast Yeah.
Davina:Through the Yeah. The trip. And what other vehicle does that for you? Now you can't do that with videos. You can't be doing the dishes and, you know, watching videos, watching videos or running and watching videos.
Davina:You know, those got driving watching videos. I know some people try, but, but that Please. So I think that's where podcast really stand out as a way of communicating a message.
Julie:What do you think about that? I agree a 100%. It is, truly unique in the fact that and and the other thing that I've seen people do is they hear a guest on a podcast that they're really intrigued by. They will search out that guest and to see what other podcasts they've been on. So there are people that actually binge guests in addition to binging your own podcast, which is pretty cool.
Julie:I know I have done that with people that I've considered hiring, just to get a better sense of them. What are they talking about? What's their thought leadership, in addition, obviously, to go into their website. So it, just provides another avenue for people to really get to know you, especially if they're going to be working with you in a very personal way, which is often the attorney client relationship. Right.
Julie:Right. So talk to me about what you think I
Davina:mean, is everybody a great guest? Are there certain things that make the timing right for us to be a good guest on a podcast?
Julie:Great question. So there's a couple of trigger events. One I would say is you've been in business for a while, and that could be 3 years for some people, 5 years. But to the point where you have very consistent revenue, you have a line item in your budget for marketing if you're looking to hire out the guesting piece, and paying somebody to get you on podcast like an agency like ours. But that you're clear on your messaging.
Julie:So once you know what your expertise is, how you help clients, what you're bringing to the table, it just makes you a better guest because you're you're confident. You have sound bites. You have unique perspective to offer. Other people that it would be a good idea to consider, and that would be just for ongoing visibility, guesting whenever it made sense for you. Other trigger events are you are interested in doing more keynote speaking.
Julie:And so podcasts are a great stepping stone to move into that space. We've had a number of clients that have gotten invited to speak both at regional and national conferences after the organizer heard them on podcasts. Writing a book is a big one. There are many, many authors that go on and promote their book and reach new audiences by guesting on podcasts. So those are a few.
Julie:We also see if somebody has a program. So, like, for instance, for me, if I were starting a new group program to teach people how to pitch themselves to podcast, I might go on podcast to talk about that and introduce that concept. So those are a number of different reasons that people would go on shows.
Davina:Let's talk about women law firm owners specifically. I think they're in the ones that I've worked with who started their own podcast, some of the things that we think about is who are we trying to reach the end user clients to people that are prospective clients, or are we trying to reach influencers of those people to get their referrals? Right? So there's a lot of different so sometimes when lawyers start a podcast, they may start it for the if they're doing business to consumer, they may start it for consumers Mhmm. And talk about things that would be interest of of interest to that consumer.
Davina:And sometimes they're talking about things that would be interesting to other lawyers Yep. Their colleagues and knowing that then that will result in referrals for them. When we're thinking about guest podcasting for lawyers, if they're doing it for the purpose of promoting their law firm business. Yes. What are some things that they can do to sort of position themselves to be to stand out from others who who are serving the same audience and be a good guest for a podcast.
Julie:Yeah. And I love how you provided those two examples. At any given time, we seem to have 25% of our client base are attorneys, which is interesting to me. And we've had some that are specifically looking to connect with other attorneys, and so they're guesting on shows for the the point of referrals. And then I'm thinking of 1 law firm owner in particular that she has a really innovative, service in her business.
Julie:And so in addition to going on some, shows that are hosted by attorneys for credibility purposes or potential referral purposes, we looked at at what industries are you serving. And so we looked at getting her on construction podcasts, podcasts in the health care industry, podcasts for, you know, small to midsize businesses, small businesses. And so getting clear on what industries you serve or maybe what new industries you wanna break into, those are great podcasts because don't we all, as business owners, need legal advice. And so, you know, having your clear talking points, having some stories that you can share on the podcast, and, it helps to have a unique point of view as well because then that just makes you a more interesting podcast host or, excuse me, podcast guest to the host. But those would be some things to think about and strategies that we use with our clients too is looking at what industries are you really looking to target.
Davina:Yeah. So that leads me kind of into my it's a nice segue into my next question, which is what kinds of things should we do to prepare to be a good guest
Julie:on someone else's podcast? Great question. So the step 1 is listen to the show, whether you're invited on, and you're aren't familiar with the podcast or if you're thinking about wanting to be a guest on a specific podcast. Familiarize yourself with the show, get a sense of the host style. You have a really great organic conversational style.
Julie:I I have listened to your show in the past before, so I knew that, which could be very different from somebody that has the same 5 questions that they ask every single guest and then the question at the end that they ask everybody that you might wanna be prepared for. So getting a sense of just how does the host run their interviews is a good idea. I also just suggest going to the website and seeing what does the host do, what kind of you're going on a another law firm podcast. You know, what kind of law do they practice? If it's an industry specific podcast, who are their listeners?
Julie:What are their service offerings? What are some of the personal things you can find out about the host from their about page? So just getting to know them, it's, again, business development 101, just understanding who your audience is so that you can share relevant, topics and conversations with them. Get a mic. So get an external mic.
Julie:You don't wanna sound like you're talking inside a tin can, and then the how the host has this exceptional audio quality. You wanna try to match theirs as much as possible. So those are few tips. Yeah.
Davina:Those are great tips. And I really like what you said about, checking out the host. And the reason why is because it has been shocking to me how many people have been introduced to me since come as a guest on our podcast and I take the time to learn about them and then they get on the show and they know nothing about me and what I do and the purpose of my podcast, and they don't know that I'm a coach for women lawyers. They don't know. And then at the end, you know, after we've had a conversation, they say, oh, by the way, what do you do?
Davina:And then I'm like, how would you come on to my podcast and not take the time to go research that? I've had that happen more than once. And what that tells me is you're dealing with somebody who's very has a very they're using you very specifically to further their agenda. And that's off putting. That's off putting.
Davina:And so the you know, the people I'm promoting and recommending to other people who've been guests on my podcast are not gonna be those people who are using me to promote their agenda. I didn't even take a dive to learn anything about me. And so I think that's a huge that's a huge tip, for people that, you should take a few minutes. It doesn't take very long to prepare to have a conversation with somebody. Most of us are out.
Davina:If we're doing this, You'll find a LinkedIn profile. You'll find a website. There's a lot of stuff out there where you can get information, and do and I agree with you. Listen to the podcast. It's also been kind of amazing.
Davina:I've had some people on who never listened to my podcast, and they came on, the show. And and I've heard this before with other podcasters as well, so it's not just a me thing. So I think those are great tips for people to think about. Like, think about what's in it, not only for so I want people to think about it. What's in it for them?
Davina:What's in it for me? What's in it for my audience? Right? Right? So triple win win win.
Davina:Right. Exactly. So they you know, what is what is Divina want out of this? What do I want out of this? What does Divina's audience want out of this?
Davina:And if you go in with that sort of mindset on any podcast you go on, you're going to be a much more effective guest and you're gonna be more resonant. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. And the house will be more likely to promote your episode.
Julie:Yeah. Well and we talk about that, you know, it is possible to build relationships, generate referrals, and even revenue when your guest podcasting. But the the goal is and, again, this is where my approach is. It is about the relationship. And, you know, we coach our clients on really engaging with the host when they stop recording, like, asking how you can be a resource for them, rating and reviewing their show, connecting with them on social media, and checking in.
Julie:And, like, don't just let that one interview be the end of your relationship. Like, check-in, especially if you feel like there's ways that you can help and support each other. So, I I've I've seen it happen and where one interview can lead to so many amaze in both personal and professional outcomes. So we really encourage people to stay in touch
Davina:afterwards. Right. Right. I think that's wonderful advice. And I I think so when I first started podcasting, I mean, this is our 5th year.
Davina:And when we first started, I had somebody who introduced me to podcasting and helped me launch my wealthy woman lawyer. And his advice to me is he said, you're it's gonna take you a long time to grow an audience. And so, really, your agenda is the the people that you're gonna be connecting with through your podcast that you're interviewing. It's the same thing when I've been a guest on podcast. Really, the value comes from the relationship of the person you're having the conversation with.
Davina:Mhmm. And and your audience over time will start to grow, and then you'll get that value as well. But really, it's the connections with the people. And so if you're coming on as a guest, you really wanna be cognizant that it's really about the relationship of the person sitting in front of you, not about you getting sort of of free publicity Yes. On their show because that may or may not work for you.
Davina:Right? Yeah. And the and the the relationship really focusing on the relationship, whether it's with our clients, the host,
Julie:really focusing on the relationship, whether it's with our clients, the host that we work with, the audience, you know, just keeping that at the forefront of your mind, then good things will
Davina:come. Right. Right. So we talked about a little bit about preparing. I wanna talk about how you become a guest on a podcast, how you go about reaching out because as somebody who receives I receive so many solicitations for people who want to be guest on my podcast because it's been around for a while and it, you know, it's for women and it's for lawyers and it's for wealthy people.
Davina:So I get a lot of solicitations. And, some of those I immediately know this is not a good fit. And then there are others that I go, That sounds interesting. And I could tell when somebody has taken the time to listen to my podcast Mhmm. Versus the people who have not taken time to listen to my podcast.
Davina:So what kind of advice would you have for people? Let's say they're DIY ing it first Yes. To try to become a guest on podcast that they wanna be on. What sort of things should they do before they reach out or when they reach out to the host of the podcast?
Julie:Yeah. Great question. So, step 1, go to the website, learn about the host, listen to the podcast. And then when you are on the website, you can usually find out if there's an email that you should be sending a pitch to, or oftentimes, we will see hosts who want you to fill out an application, and they will say that if you go to the contact us portion of the website. So it's really important to follow the host process for submitting yourself as a guest because, like you, they're probably getting tons of pitches and have developed a workflow that works for them so that it just makes their life a little bit easier when determining who they have come on the show.
Julie:So follow their process. If you are sending an email, really in that introductory paragraph, show them that you understand who they are and who their audience is. That's key. So whether it's calling out at a very specific part of an episode, don't be generic. Don't say, oh, and I caught your episode with Susie q, and that just happened to be the most recent episode that they were
Davina:Right. Right. Right. Right.
Julie:Like, pull out something very specific. Like, oh, on your episode with Julie Fry, and you talked about how she got started with podcast guesting and how to network or organization. At least that shows that you listen to a portion of it. Yeah. Sometimes we will also pull out something interesting from their website too, and that shows the host that, oh, hey.
Julie:This person has taken the time to learn a little bit more about me. The other piece I would say, keep it short. Don't write, like, pages and pages of why you should be on the show. Keep it short but direct, and try to approach it from the viewpoint of what you are going to help the audience with. So how are you going to provide value to the audience?
Julie:And, we suggest, you know, an interview topic that you can suggest, a few takeaways that the listeners might get after hearing your episode. Let the host know how you're going to share the episode once it goes live. I was at a conference a couple years ago, and that was the number one complaint that all the podcast hosts had is, how do I get my guests to share my episode?
Davina:I will say one of the things that, that we've been trying to do more of is on Instagram, inviting people to collaborate. Yes. And you could tell people who are Instagram people and people who are not Instagram people because when you invite some people to collaborate, they're like, yay. And they do nothing. And then you invite other people to collaborate, and suddenly, you've got 30,000 viewers, you know.
Davina:And so, collaboration always asking, you know, will you collaborate with me in sharing and Yeah. One of the mistakes that I probably have made is I don't ask for social media, in my my application. I haven't updated in a long time, and I don't ask for social media links, you know, so that I could test. So I'm always there, you know, like, looking for people and trying to find their their Uh-huh. Things like that, you know, so that we could share.
Davina:But getting people to share is a huge part of it. And and and I don't really understand the desire not to share because Yeah. It's kind of like what is the point unless you're putting it out and showing people that you have been you've been had this great conversation. You're out there creating content because it's such wonderful content that can be repurposed. You know?
Davina:So Absolutely. One of
Julie:the things that I have learned at talking to people about why they don't share episodes is that they feel self conscious or they're having some imposter syndrome. And so, just a simple mind shift that you can take is when you share the episode, put the highlight on the podcaster. You know, talk about, like, oh, you know, I was on Wealthy Women Lawyer. Devina host this amazing show for women that run their own law firms and talk about the host. And then you can, like and I got to be on her show.
Julie:Here's my here's the link.
Davina:And so it doesn't sound like you're bragging about yourself.
Julie:You're putting the spotlight on somebody. Great tip. Yeah. And so that just helps with the, going through the motion of actually sharing the episode if that feels uncomfortable for you.
Davina:Yeah. Yeah. And I I and here's a tip for me. I don't really, I don't really go back and revisit. I create content.
Davina:I hit publish. It goes out. I don't go back and revisit. And occasionally, I have gone and back and listened to my podcast, and I feel like, well, that was a really great episode. That was a really great interview.
Davina:But the tendency is we still nobody likes the sound of their voice. Nobody likes how they look on video. Nobody does. Nobody else. I don't like sound of my you know, like and so we can be overly critical of ourselves, but kind of releasing that and saying, well, you know, do I am I judging you like that when I listen to other people's podcast?
Davina:No. Not usually. It's rare. I mean, occasionally, you'll find somebody who has really bad vocal fry or something. You're like, I just can't listen to this.
Davina:But for the most part, you know, if you're listening to something for content, you're not sitting there criticizing. You're not judging. People are not sound like Yeah. People aren't paying attention to that into that degree the way that you are. You're like, oh, well, I should have worn that color shirt, but that would be washed out, you know, or whatever.
Davina:Nobody's paying attention to that. So that's my my tip. As somebody who consumes a lot of content, you know, I'm not looking at peep people in that way. I'm looking
Julie:to hear interesting because it's interesting and I'm learning something.
Davina:Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. And so, that might help you some people get over that and just don't go back. Don't watch yourself.
Davina:Don't lose yourself. Just share it and just say, and one of the things that I do is I say, you know, I just ask the universe before I start something to make sure that this message gets out to whoever needs to hear the message today. And I always state there's at least one person out there that's going to walk away with something that's going to be meaningful and helpful in their life. And if you just kind of set that intention before you create content, then it becomes about more than you. It's not about you.
Davina:It's about who else you may be helping by what you're putting out there.
Julie:A lovely approach and a wonderful intention. I'm gonna start incorporating that into my guest appearances as well. That's that's really lovely. I do go back and listen to every interview and suggest that people do. I actually just did a poll on LinkedIn to see, for people that are guessing how often or who listens to their interviews.
Julie:And, most do. I was surprised, because I know a lot of people hate the sound of their own voice. Mhmm. But I feel like you you can have a growth mindset and look for opportunities where you could be clearer in your messaging, maybe tell better stories. I just I'm a fan of listening to it afterwards.
Julie:But when you're producing, you know, 1 episode a week, then I understand that that can be hard to do.
Davina:Yeah. We have, you know, that's the thing. Producing 1 episode a week and then being guest on other people's podcast. And, and I tend to be self critical. So if I'm listening to myself, I'm I'm the person.
Davina:I it's me, but I'm talking, like Yeah. I will be the person who goes, oh, man. I should have said that or I should've it's better or whatever. So, so if you are that person, it's okay just to send it out into the universe and it will get to the it will get to the person that needs to hear it, the people that need to hear it. And I, it is one of those if you're a perfectionist, which a lot of women law firm owners are perfectionists because our hard work and perfectionism is what got us to be where we are today.
Davina:But it's one of the things we have to release when we own our own business and not so publish is better than perfect. Publish is better than perfect. I say that over and over again. Publish is better than perfect. And I've published things with typos.
Davina:I published things where I've said stupid things. I published things where, you know, I didn't say exactly what I wanted or whatever. But but over time, that body of work, going out and being a guest on multiple podcasts, that body of work builds up, and people have an impression rather than, well, you know, on this day, in this time, she said this.
Julie:Yes. Or that there was a typo in the thing that I read in, you know, 2023. People don't
Davina:remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So they have an impression of who you are as a person. So if you're going out and you're guesting, you know, it it it's the overall body of work and impression that's gonna come across.
Davina:And, also, I think that people, these days, people really like things that are not overproduced, and they like things that seem genuine and natural. So if you go to guest podcasting with that intention of serving the audience, you know, benefiting the host. Mhmm. And I'm gonna show up and and and just offer my point of view and my perspective. There are gonna be some percentage of people that are gonna be repelled by what you say, and there are gonna be a some percentage that are gonna just it's gonna resonate with them like you're inside their head.
Davina:Yes. And that's who we're focused on. That's who we're focused.
Julie:It's so true because we're not for everyone.
Davina:Right. Nobody is. What is the the you could be the ripest peach in the orchard and still some people won't like peaches. So that's my Instagram quote for the day. It's Oh, no.
Julie:I love it. And, yeah, peaches look really good now too.
Davina:Yeah. Yeah. So what, talk to me about what it's like to hire a service like yours to help us with that kind of thing. What what who does that make sense for? Right?
Davina:Yeah. And how do you guys help people?
Julie:I'm I'm thinking specifically about the women law firm owners that have hired us before. It usually comes down to there's not somebody on their team that is equipped or has the bandwidth to do this. Pitching is is kind of a unique skill and it requires a level of being detail oriented, a little bit of sales, and a lot of follow through, a lot of follow-up. So usually, we've been hired by folks because they don't have somebody on their team that can do this, but they know they want to get on podcasts. And so when we engage with a, with a new client, that process looks like, we build a media kit for them.
Julie:We have a very deep dive discovery where we're learning more about their why behind their business, their target audience, some key stories that they can share on podcasts. We really look to get to know them, because that's how we can pitch them effectively so that we get them on the right shows. And then we will, develop a target list, and we will pitch that list and follow-up with it, being pleasantly persistent, but not annoying. And then we book them on the shows. We prepare them for the shows.
Julie:We get to host all of the assets that they need, like their website, headshot, bio, social links, all that kinda good stuff. And then we look at data. So as the shows air, we have a portal that we keep track of all of their interviews, and then we, meet on a regular basis to see, like, what types of shows are generating spikes in your email subscribers or growing your LinkedIn followers or booking discovery calls. So when we're on the front end and getting started, we determine what are the metrics that we're going to measure for this, and then we check-in on a regular basis.
Davina:Oh, that's kinda interesting that you do the metrics because I've I've worked with people who've booked me as a guest on podcast before, and then I've done some of my own. And, metrics were not something that was ever really shared with me. So I think that's a really interesting standout kind of thing that you guys do to say, look. Here are the results of you going on this show. This is how many people heard you and got you know, how we got your message out.
Davina:So I think that's a wonderful way to show people the value of the thing. Right? Yeah. You talked about a media kit. I think that is a huge, piece of it as well because we really or really look just like it being a keynote speaker or speaker of any kind, you have to present yourself as a professional in this world, and that requires you to have that polished look.
Davina:And it's much more impressive when that when somebody gets that professional media
Julie:kit that they see you're prepared for this. Yes. Yes. And there's lots of ways to do it yourself. Again, if you're wanting to to, do this on your own, you can go to Canva, find templates for media kits, and follow that.
Julie:There's really no reason why somebody can't have a really great looking media kit, whether it's hiring someone to do it for you or doing it on your own. But I still can deduce just to see some really horrible ones.
Davina:I'm not sure what kind of
Julie:word document they're pasting Yeah. To. Yeah. I still see it.
Davina:I will say as a podcast host, a lot of times I get really lengthy bios, and that means I've gotta cut it down, and I have to take my time to cut it down. And so one of the things I would just give you a little insider tip is provide the podcast host with a short bio that they can read and introduce you. You don't need to give them your entire resume and CV for your old career. You wanna give them the highlights of what it is that makes you special to be a guest. And so I think that's a that's a a real key thing when you're when you're doing it.
Davina:Yeah. That is a great point.
Julie:50 to 75 words per Yeah. Assure bio. Because, again, would you have stopped listening to podcasts before that I love the host, but they're reading a bio that's 5 minutes long? I'm sorry. I'm, and I'm not gonna listen to that episode.
Davina:Yeah. It's very interesting that you say that. It's very interesting because there are certain things, for me, if I'm listening to a podcast, if there's a lot if there's 2 people and there's a lot of joking back and forth, that's kind of an inside joke, I get very I get bored with that very quickly. I don't like to go on for the first 10, 20 minutes where they're inside jumping back and forth, and it and you're, like, not in on it, you know. And so that the the bro podcasts are my my this might be for some of them.
Davina:All that you've described is a lot of work. And so I will just I will put this out as somebody who has been a guest on podcast and is a podcast host. It's a lot of work to pitch yourself as a guest for a podcast. And oftentimes, we as women law firm owners, we think, well, I'm smarter than the average bear. If I just had more time, I could do it myself.
Davina:But the issue is you don't have more time. That's kind of the if you're you don't have the time to do it yourself if you're really running, a good law firm business and you have a higher there's a better use of your time and higher priorities. So it is good to get somebody who's an expert. And also, there's a lot of expertise that goes into pitching. You could tell pitches that are written by people who have an understanding what a pitch should include.
Julie:Yeah.
Davina:And also timely sending along the assets that a host needs and then, and just the persistence that it that it takes to get the host's attention a lot of times. Because as I said, I get so many that I have to, like, sit and sort of batch go through emails. And by then I may have 3 or 4 emails from somebody. So it it is a time consuming thing and I think there's a lot more to
Julie:it than people realize. Yeah. Just, you know, customization by, you know, having to customize each pitch to the host, that is time consuming. And I'm surprised at how many people don't do that, and it's so important because it, again, it helps differentiate you from everybody else.
Davina:You're right. Right. You talk about putting together a list. So this is kind of a, a pet peeve of mine is this not matching if you're pitching, not matching up to to the podcast. And Yeah.
Davina:And that is a big challenge I see. So for so when I I have had a service before, been years ago, that was helping me sort of get on podcast. And one of the issues I had is that I was very clear about who I am and who my message is, who I'm trying to reach, and then they would say, well, here's this list of great, podcasts to be on. And then you're like, well, I could've done that myself, and that's not that's none of that none of that is targeted. And maybe it's not easy to find podcasts that are targeted for my, you know, who I wanna be in front of.
Davina:But there's a lot of work that goes into that as well. Do you have tips for people in sort of finding? Because with that many podcasts, it's not so easy to find podcasts that, you know, these are the ones without it being like direct competitors or something.
Julie:Yes. Yes. For sure. So, there's a number of free tools that you can use to find podcasts. One is just using your keywords, and putting those into Spotify, Apple Podcasts, whatever podcast directory you like to search with.
Julie:And then I know with Apple, at the very bottom, it will show listeners also subscribe to. So for instance, say somebody is pitching your show, and then they feel like it's a really great fit for them. If they scroll all the way down to the bottom, They'll see other shows that people who are listening to your show also subscribe to. So those might be a good fit to research and pitch as well. Listen Notes, also is a podcast database, and it is a great place to use keywords, search where your competition might be showing up on shows, searching by specific industries, and then just good old Google, or chat GPT, putting in, you know, if you wanna reach, women in midlife because that's who your clients are, you know, podcasts for women in midlife.
Julie:And, you'll get a lengthy list that then you will have to go back and look at each one and determine, do they take yes? Is it still active? Is it, you know, meeting all of your criteria? We put together a a product that is a customized list of shows for people. So that is something for people that want to do it themselves.
Julie:We have put that together because it is very time consuming researching and finding good fit shows.
Davina:Yeah. So talk to me about your services because you do have 2 or 3 different services. 1 is the full enchilada, the whole enchilada deal where you say, I wanna get guest booked on guest podcast, and I I don't have time for any of it. Yeah.
Julie:I just wanna show up and record. So, yeah, that would be our done for you podcast guest service. And we can also content video shorts for LinkedIn, that sort of thing.
Davina:Mhmm.
Julie:We have our customized pitch lists, which, again, based on an intake form, we find shows that are your target audience, would be a great place for you to show up and share your expertise and your thought leadership. And we do those, they range from 15 shows to 50 shows. And they're a much more cost effective because you're still going to have to do the work and pitch the shows. We provide some sample templates, and I'd spend a little bit of time talking you through on how to go about the process. So those are really the ways that we work from with folks.
Julie:Wonderful. And you also have
Davina:a quiz on your site. Tell me what the quiz is about. Yeah.
Julie:So the quiz is a free quiz you could take to determine if podcast guesting is a good fit for you. So there's just a series of, I think, it's 10 questions, and, then you'll you'll find out if podcast guesting is a good fit for you or not. There are some people that it is not a good fit for, and so you can find that out in the in the questionnaire.
Davina:Right. So talk to me about some of the results that some of your clients have gotten as a result of being guests on podcast.
Julie:Yeah. Well, I think the one that a lot of people are looking for whether it's directly or indirectly is revenue and new clients. And we are definitely seeing that with most of our clients because if they're hiring us to do this for them, we want them to see a return on investment. And so just in the last 2 weeks, I've gotten 2 different clients who said, oh, I, you know, got this this new client and it was worth $20,000 or another one that he's a financial adviser, and he just got a big new client. So those are definitely results that we see.
Julie:As I mentioned, invitations to speaking engagements, that's a big one. Invitations to be on other podcasts, lead generation. So booking more discovery calls, building your network, building out new referral partners, and just building great relationships. So those are, I would say, the core. And some people do it for the SEO.
Julie:So they're just looking to build more high quality links to their website, and that's podcast guesting is a great way to do that
Davina:too. Right. Right. So tell us how we can find out more about, your business, about you, how we can connect with you. And if we want to get started working with you, what can we do?
Julie:Yeah. So, our website is your expert guest.com. We recently rebranded to showcase that we work and support women, women thought leaders, business owners, and authors. And, I'm on LinkedIn, Julie Fry, like a French fry, not the boot. And, yeah, we also have a free quiz that you or free checklist that you can get, that teaches you everything you need before, during, and after your interview to be a great guest.
Julie:And that's Well, that's wonderful. Icebergguest.comforward/checklist.
Davina:Wonderful. So everybody can go grab that checklist, and I'm gonna thank Julie for being here. I've had so much fun. I love talking about podcasting. So thanks for being here and discussing it
Julie:with me. Thank you so much, Devina. It was really great spending this time with you.
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