She Counts

Two accountants with ADHD (and one who’s got lots of questions) get real about what it's like when your brain won't filter information, when 30 minutes turns into either 3 hours or 3 minutes, and when opening your email derails your entire day. Jina Etienne joins Questian and Nancy to discuss early- vs later-in-life diagnosis; the exhaustion of masking symptoms for decades; the superpowers inherent in ADHD; and why women in accounting are finally putting words to experiences they've had their whole lives. If you’ve wondered about ADHD in accounting… yet all your resources are male, this is the episode for you.


  • (00:00) - Introduction and Episode Overview
  • (00:51) - Meet Our Guest: Jina Etienne
  • (05:25) - Personal Stories of ADHD Diagnosis
  • (08:15) - Understanding ADHD in Women
  • (11:27) - Challenges and Misconceptions
  • (19:42) - Masking Behaviors and Functional Freeze
  • (30:59) - The Impact of Late Diagnosis
  • (37:38) - Navigating Social Cues
  • (38:42) - Communication Styles with My Husband
  • (44:59) - Understanding Time Blindness
  • (48:36) - Managing ADHD with Tools and Strategies
  • (59:32) - The Power of Hyperfocus
  • (01:03:12) - Embracing ADHD Superpowers
  • (01:05:15) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Resources
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Creators and Guests

Host
Nancy McClelland, CPA
The Dancing Accountant
Host
Questian Telka, EA
Founder of ReQoncile Financials
Guest
Jina Etienne, CPA, CGMA, CDE®
CEO at Etienne Consulting

What is She Counts ?

She Counts brings together respected educators Nancy McClelland, CPA, and Questian Telka, EA, for candid conversations about what it’s really like to be a woman in accounting. Whether you’re in corporate, at a firm, or running your own show, this podcast offers a space to feel seen, heard, and understood. From taboo topics to everyday challenges, She Counts is more than a podcast—it’s a community where women in accounting, tax, and bookkeeping can come together and get real.

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Questian Telka: Welcome to She Counts, the Real Talk podcast for women in accounting, where your hosts Questian Telka

Nancy McClelland: And Nancy McClelland.

Questian Telka: And every episode we're digging into the real experiences, challenges and unspoken truths of life in this profession.

Nancy McClelland: Because if you've ever felt like you're the only one, you're not and you shouldn't have to figure it out alone. [00:00:30]

Questian Telka: Special thanks to our season two sponsors, Forwardly Relay and Client Hub. We are so very grateful to them for helping us bring these conversations to life, enabling us to share out loud what everyone's thinking but no one is saying. You can learn more about them on our sponsors page at checkout.

Nancy McClelland: Today's episode is called ADHD chaos with a side of brilliance, and we have a special guest [00:01:00] with us, our dear friend Jenna Etienne. We're going to discuss how ADHD manifests differently in women, why we often go undiagnosed, and tools to harness ADHD as a superpower.

Questian Telka: So Jenna is a speaker trainer. She does keynote presentations. This woman is a powerhouse. She is a CPA who is in practice for 23 years, 17 years on her own, in five [00:01:30] years at a big eight. She is a wife and mom and has a puppy that we get to hear about a lot, which is not actually a puppy, right? Um, named Doug and Jenna, I want you to share because when I was asking her to give us some information for her bio, I was really excited because typically the information that we get is all professional. But Jenna shared some really interesting things about herself, like her favorite [00:02:00] song or her favorite colors and why? And then so. So tell us what those are. And then I have another one I want to ask you about.

Jina Etienne: Well, first question, and Nancy, thank you so much for having me. I've been loving this podcast. So I'm really honored to be invited to be on there on this, um, with you and such an important topic. But what is it about some of the things that I put on there? I'm curious what you wanted me to list, because I have in there a lot of interesting [00:02:30] things. Like I'm an Arsenal fan. Um.

Questian Telka: Oh, yeah, I'm a Liverpool fan.

Jina Etienne: Um, well.

Questian Telka: We're like fighting. We're like.

Jina Etienne: We can still we can still talk. As long as you're not a Tottenham fan. Because then I would have just hung up right now.

Nancy McClelland: Honestly, I am relieved because that could have gone really poorly. So am I, am I? I don't know that I'm a fan of any, uh, football team except I can say Boca Juniors, because my [00:03:00] mom's from Buenos Aires. And you have to either be a Boca fan or a River plate fan. So Boca all the way. I've never actually seen them play, but I, you know.

Jina Etienne: Yeah, yeah.

Questian Telka: I'm excited that we can still be friends, even though we have dueling football football teams. They're not quite real rivals. Exactly though. So it's like, oh, and he can pass.

Jina Etienne: No. Well but Liverpool won the Premier League last year. So you all let us win this year. And then we can stay friends.

Questian Telka: Then we can stay [00:03:30] friends. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. Well the most.

Nancy McClelland: Fun fact that I saw that I was so excited about was that you have a motorcycle license.

Jina Etienne: Yes. Um.

Nancy McClelland: That was a surprise.

Jina Etienne: Back in the day, I used to ride a motorcycle. Now, I've never had my own, but my brother would let me drive. I shouldn't say drive. Never say drive on a motorcycle. Let me ride. And for anybody who knows, his was a Gsxr 700 and my husband got a Gsxr 1100 because, you know, [00:04:00] um, and then another friend had a ninja that they let me ride. So we would go riding together all the time. And after I got pregnant, I never got on a bike again.

Nancy McClelland: Oh.

Questian Telka: I can understand why. Yeah.

Jina Etienne: No, it was it was for safety reasons. Because an accident on a motorcycle is often catastrophic.

Questian Telka: Mhm. So yeah, that's so true.

Jina Etienne: But it was fun to have one I think I look cute when I was on the bike.

Questian Telka: We need, we're gonna have to see a picture.

Jina Etienne: There's one on my personal blog actually.

Questian Telka: Well [00:04:30] thank you for joining us. We're happy to have you here. And I'm thrilled that you shared some fun facts outside of professional facts. I think we're going to have to do that from now on on all of our episodes.

Nancy McClelland: Well, and I think the most important one that we should from now on ask everybody is your theme song, because I don't know this one. Silver Shadow by Atlantic Starr I'm gonna look that up.

Jina Etienne: What's important to me about that song? That song is dates back to the 80s. And what that what that song talks about is [00:05:00] that you have a vision for yourself, and you have to trust that vision and that you will get there. I mean, I would tell you, I would read the lyrics for you because I know them by heart, but I think it's for me, it's the bottom line is cast a silver shadow and you basically will follow that shadow in your life. And I've always believed that to be true, that somehow I'll get there even if I don't know where it is.

Nancy McClelland: Well, we love watching each episode with a story, and today Question [00:05:30] and Jenna are both going to share with us their ADHD diagnosis stories.

Questian Telka: Jenna, why don't you tell us your story first?

Jina Etienne: Yeah, so I was diagnosed in my early 40s. My son, my youngest son is my mini me. His name is Dominic. And I became so self aware because I would watch Dominic do things and I would be like, where is he? Oh yeah. That's coming. And my husband shares this story where Dominic was [00:06:00] really into this project. This is middle school. He's really into this project. He worked really hard on the project. My husband takes him to school, drops him off, and then he says, so, Dominic, where's the project? Like he forgot to bring it to school. And my husband's thinking, how can you be so invested in something and completely forget? And he thought, maybe it's ADHD or there's something else at play. So we got him diagnosed, and once his diagnosis was confirmed, I went to talk to the the [00:06:30] psychiatrist who did the diagnosis. There are a lot of ways to get diagnosed, but I met with a psychiatrist and I asked her, how do I parent this child? Like, what is it that I need to know? And she gave me a book called Driven to Distraction. And in that book, there's a section that talks about diagnosis and how you get diagnosed. And if you have more than I think it was like 12 of these characteristics that are they describe where and why out of 20 you [00:07:00] might have ADHD. Well I had I think it was more than 8 or 9, I had 12. And so I called back and I said, can you diagnose me? And that's how I got diagnosed. It wasn't from my own awareness. It was because it runs in families. And my son had it. So maybe he got it from somewhere.

Questian Telka: Yeah, that makes sense. I can see that. And my son is not diagnosed, but he and I, like you said, he is very much my mini me. And I have said [00:07:30] to him, you know, he's 14, so he's getting older now and I have I've tried to get him to go and be, you know, and see if he does have ADHD and he is, you know, not wanted to go and do it. So I haven't really pressed him. But we have so much. There are so many similarities between the two of us. And and interestingly, I too went to get diagnosed from seeing and hearing someone else who had a diagnosis. Which is why this episode is so important to is [00:08:00] people openly talking about what they're experiencing. Because when I heard what my friend was experiencing then I was like, wow, we are so similar. Like, we are so similar. We do some of the same things. Um, I decided that I needed also to go and get diagnosed, and I think and we'll talk about this a little bit more later. But ADHD can manifest differently in women, which is often part of the reason [00:08:30] why, as girls, we don't get diagnosed as often as boys do, especially our generation. Um, and one of the.

Nancy McClelland: Question, do you I'm actually curious to know, um, if you have done some research on, you know why.

Questian Telka: Yeah. And I think and Gina may be able to answer this question as well, but it does manifest differently. And so when like our generation, [00:09:00] a lot of teachers are, are often the people that will mention it to parents. And so they're looking for hyperactivity more often than inattention. And it manifests a lot in women as inattention. Not always like I have both. So for me, I have the hyperactivity and the inattention. And that is that can be pretty common. But when they're looking for, um, the characteristics or the traits, a lot of times in past they've been looking at at that, and I don't know if you have anything to add to [00:09:30] that as well.

Jina Etienne: Well, I think there are a couple of things also that are going on. There are different methods of diagnosis. And so who's making the diagnosis can influence what they see. Right. Um, there are gender assumptions that we make about boys and girls, Women and men. Because we live in a very binary society where you're either or. And if you're one or the other, there are people project onto us the way we're supposed to be. So girls are quiet, girls are thoughtful. [00:10:00] Girls are nice. Girls are. Dot dot dot. So if a boy is boisterous and he's busy running around and can't sit still, then it must be ADHD. But if a girl is sitting still, maybe it's not ADHD. And we know that that's not the case. And even, you know, question you and I with ADHD. It'll show up differently for us. Yeah.

Nancy McClelland: Well, Jenna, you've actually written some really wonderful articles, um, that actually [00:10:30] talk about the stereotypes that are associated with ADHD and looking past those stereotypes and really, you know, trying to dig into the, the complex diversity. Um, I believe you referred to it as as beautiful diversity at one point, which, you know, I've always enjoyed your writing and your presenting, um, and ADHD. I know it's only one of the topics that you write and present on, but as somebody who does not have ADHD, [00:11:00] I never thought about how the labeling does not reflect that beautiful and complex diversity here or anywhere else.

Jina Etienne: It's interesting you say that, and I don't remember what it was you said earlier question that got me thinking about this. Oh, I think it was your son maybe doesn't want to go through the diagnosis, um, process. And to some degree, I don't know that you have to have a formal diagnosis to benefit from these conversations.

Questian Telka: Now, I agree.

Jina Etienne: There are a lot of people who self-diagnose, [00:11:30] and I have some concerns about the implications of that, to the extent that some of the conversations I feel might be happening are maybe dismissive. You know, think about somebody like, oh, I'm having an OCD moment. Well, no you're not. No OCD, very real condition or that is so ADHD.

Questian Telka: But there's also the situation where I have told people I have it and it's been diagnosed, and they are they are very dismissive of [00:12:00] it. Right. So it's like you.

Nancy McClelland: Dismissive of the diagnosis or dismissive.

Questian Telka: Of the diagnosis. Oh, everyone has ADHD. Oh yeah. That's just life. Everyone you know. Very. So there are I think it's.

Nancy McClelland: Interesting because I believe it's only, um, 3 to 5% of the adult population that actually is attention deficit hyperactive disorder. So what are they what are they getting at when they say everyone has it now? I mean, I know that there have [00:12:30] been there have not been any formal studies on ADHD in accounting, but there have been many informal studies. And it does appear, um, there are actually articles in CPA practice Advisor and accounting today on ADHD in the accounting profession. It does appear that we have a larger number of folks, but again, there have not been any formal studies. And I want to I want to help change that. But so I'm surprised to hear somebody would say everybody has ADHD. Does [00:13:00] that just mean everybody struggles with attention at times?

Jina Etienne: I think it's because there's this tendency to think, well, everybody procrastinates everybody gets distracted. Um, as if procrastination and distraction are the two things that come with ADHD. Those are just one of a two of a series of different ways that ADHD manifests. And so I think one of the challenges is that people don't see this as a clinical diagnosis. I [00:13:30] love that you used that phrase. And there's the the DSM, the diagnostic. It's the manual used to diagnose different mental, um, conditions, psychological conditions and ADHD is in there. We're not making it up. Um, and yes, people get distracted, but there's not necessarily an underlying neurological reason for that distraction. Um.

Questian Telka: That's right.

Jina Etienne: And I think, you know, one of the things I wanted to make sure we talked about was validating that because [00:14:00] there are also there are different types of ADHD. There's ADHD that's predominantly inattentive, there's ADHD that's predominantly, um, distracted, not distracted, um, hyperactive, hyperactive. And then there's both. And the presentation of both is the most common. Um, but I think we hear ADHD and we dumb it down. Maybe dumb it down isn't the right phrase. We dismiss it, we marginalize, reduce [00:14:30] it to oh, you're just distracted.

Questian Telka: I agree, and just oh, we are. We live in a society now where people are on all their devices. I mean, I've actually had people make this comment to me a couple of times. And, you know, I very rarely take offense to comments that people make to me. But I was at a conference once and someone absolutely dismissed the diagnosis. And I was, you know, I'm sitting here going, oh, I'm sorry, have you lived, have you lived in my life? Have you walked in my shoes? [00:15:00] I are you my doctor suddenly?

Jina Etienne: Yeah, I think and I think sometimes I felt like, oh my gosh, I'm having an ADHD moment. And inside I'm like, no, you're not. But I'm smiling on the outside because there's a time to pick your battles, right? Yeah, there's a time to educate. And that's the, you know, the fine line that we have to walk. Because if somebody says something that makes it sound like, well, everybody gets distracted or, you know, I procrastinate, it's not [00:15:30] why I don't have ADHD.

Nancy McClelland: Now, as somebody who does not have ADHD, I want to make sure, again, you know, we're only talking about 3 to 5% of the adult population here. And so for those listening who are not familiar with this, I'm just going to run through a short list of some symptoms.

Questian Telka: Some symptoms. Yeah.

Nancy McClelland: Yeah. So you had mentioned predominantly inattentive versus predominantly hyperactive impulsive in [00:16:00] adults. Obviously you talked about distractibility forgetfulness, disorganization and daydreaming. But you know, the hyperactive part of it, it is very different in adults than it is in children. And I thought it was extremely interesting that in adults, the hyperactive part can actually feel like internal agitation, racing thoughts, or a sense of urgency, which is very different than like the overt [00:16:30] disruptive behavior that, you know, my brother exhibited in school as a child. Right. That's a it it is associated with stress and anxiety. So I thought that was interesting.

Questian Telka: It is. And I would say that for myself I can see that. So I do still have the restlessness and the fidgeting. But I am so much and this goes down. This is masking and this is something we're going to talk about later. I have spent my adult life, um, because I didn't I was [00:17:00] late diagnosed as well. Trying to like, if I'm in a meeting, trying to hide that. So it becomes for me, you know, it's like if I can't express it and move my body the way that I need to, then it does become internal agitation. Like it, it it moves inward. So I think that that is it is a difference from when I was a child where my, my grandmother say to me, she's like, you're just bouncing off the walls all the time. And it was climbing furniture. I mean, it was all hanging from the ceiling, almost just all over the place. So they put me in gymnastics. [00:17:30] That was how how I dealt with it.

Jina Etienne: But that tracks. Yeah.

Questian Telka: Yeah. She's like me too. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, now.

Nancy McClelland: You you mentioned masking behaviors. Let's actually talk a little bit about that. I mean, um, you know, you had when we were preparing for this, you were talking about the executive function challenges that sometimes get overlooked and and the functional freeze. I think you called it where you you feel stuck or paralyzed. [00:18:00] So how how are people masking these kinds of things as adults in the accounting industry? Women in particular.

Jina Etienne: Was that for me because I thought question you had you had identified some of those things. And actually I was curious about the functional freeze. I hadn't heard that phrase. Exactly. Um, yeah. Before.

Questian Telka: Yeah. I think well, I feel like the way that it manifests for me is that I [00:18:30] am constantly, maybe not specifically functional freeze, but just in general Is like overpreparing for everything and feeling like if I don't overprepare for everything, that I'm not going to be able to manage whatever it is that is happening, whether it's a presentation or a client meeting. And I have gotten to the point where it's become very difficult for me to emotionally hide my overwhelm. But that's [00:19:00] one of the other common, common ways that that people mask. It's something that I have done for a long time, but then I think it's like, got to gotten personally to the tipping point where I'm just like, I can't, Nancy, you'll hear from me. And and I'm like, I just, I'm it's I'm over the top. I'm, I'm stressed and overwhelmed and exhausted and all the things. So that's kind of some of the way that it that it manifests for me. How about for you, Gina?

Jina Etienne: Well, I think decision paralysis is a very real thing. [00:19:30]

Questian Telka: Um, absolutely.

Jina Etienne: And part of it is that. So funny story. I was at Trader Joe's the other day. So we've been having some issues with our dog. There's been some very emotional challenges because of his health. And one night my husband and I were just exhausted. So I thought, I don't know about you, but I could use some ice cream right now. So I got up and I went to Trader Joe's and decision paralysis. What that looks like is you're standing in Trader Joe's, and instead of coming home with [00:20:00] two things, you come home with eight things. And it's. And why does this happen? Because I'm overloaded with the different decisions I have to make, and I'm afraid to make the wrong decision. So I end up bringing home more things. This happens a lot. So that's just a silly example. But I think part of what happens with the ADHD brain is that you are taking in so much information, you're scanning and you're multi-processing, but [00:20:30] not in ways that are filtering Information because our brain doesn't do the best job of filtering. And so yeah. So that's why you get stuck. And that is a different type of overwhelm.

Questian Telka: Yeah I really struggle with that professionally sometimes too. So if I have, you know, a list of a handful of big things that I need to accomplish, for example, it's like, okay, if all of these big things, then I start, [00:21:00] I get into a spiral in my mind, like, which one, which one do I start with? And it's like, I'll go for one and then I go for the other, and then I just like, I just get so overwhelmed and I have a really difficult time taking a step back and prioritizing one. And I know we're going to talk about some ways to to do that later, but it's like I have to really medicine helps me a lot with that. And I also have to really turn everything else off in my life, or I can't focus on that one thing. And [00:21:30] and opening email will cause that functional freeze or that indecision so much because then it's like I'm, oh, I decided I'm going to work on this one thing. And then I opened my email and I'm like, this thing's kind of kind of urgent, but it's not life ending. It's accounting, you know?

Jina Etienne: So but what it does is there's a high level of reward and stimulus. And in the ADHD brain, if it doesn't offer that reward, if it doesn't really draw [00:22:00] you in with interest, if there isn't an immediate payoff in some way, it's not so interesting. You move on to the thing that is interesting. Uh, and now.

Nancy McClelland: That sounds like a very human thing. I mean, again, I don't, I don't um, I've never been diagnosed with ADHD. I don't think that it is, is something that is a part of, of my life. Maybe I'm wrong, but what you just described is something that I think most humans [00:22:30] do. How is it different for people with a clinical diagnosis of ADHD and and women in particular? I know hormonal cycles come into play. Estrogen comes into play. Um, not being diagnosed early on comes into play. But um, like where's that line question?

Questian Telka: I think it's a great question.

Jina Etienne: I was thinking, Nancy, I'm so glad you asked that.

Questian Telka: Yeah, I.

Jina Etienne: I happen to prepare for that. And I say that because there's dopamine and norepinephrine [00:23:00] and dopamine levels, um, are responsible for that processing, that reward processing, that sense of urgency. And then the ADHD brain dopamine levels aren't consistent. Sometimes they fluctuate and sometimes they're lower. And so as a result of that, it can be harder to simply regulate those things. Um, so there's an actual hormonal imbalance that is happening in a fluctuation that is happening that just make those kinds of process, that kind of processing more [00:23:30] difficult. And then when you look at things like estrogen and progesterone, for women as we age or as we go through our monthly cycles, those levels fluctuate. And there's a relationship between estrogen and dopamine.

Questian Telka: Yes.

Jina Etienne: And estrogen helps us do a better job of regulating so that the dopamine impact isn't as strong. And as our estrogen levels start to drop, the struggle becomes more obvious. I mean, it was always [00:24:00] there, but as we get older, it can feel like things got harder. And so there's a hormonal explanation for this.

Questian Telka: And this might also be part of the reason why women are being diagnosed more frequently later in life. And also to your point about we choose, it's easier for us to choose things that are interesting to us. So it's hard when you have a number of things that you need to be working on or doing that aren't interesting because they don't give you a dopamine reward, [00:24:30] and our brains are looking for that dopamine. And that is why we tend to we can hyperfocus on things that are really interesting to us. Um, so it's like, not that we can't hyperfocus at all. It's just it's difficult. I can't choose what I'm going to, what I'm going to hyperfocus or I feel like I can't.

Jina Etienne: Yeah, yeah.

Nancy McClelland: That would be nice. I mean, it would be fantastic. Yeah. Just turn it on. Yeah.

Jina Etienne: You can say today I'm going to hyper focus on this and get it done.

Questian Telka: Yeah. [00:25:00]

Jina Etienne: I think that the other hormone, the neo synephrine that's part of that. Because what's hard for us to do is regulate what we're focusing on. Right. So something's interesting and we can get we can pay attention to that and then we pay attention to that. It's called a shiny thing. Like I have shiny things popping up all over the place, but which is the one that I focus on, right? And that can be difficult to decide what to focus on. Um. Or the payoff is so strong, I [00:25:30] get locked in and I can't get out. You know, it's why sometimes I'm working until three in the morning. Because in theory, I'm on a roll. But in fact, I'm hyper focused, which hopefully we talk about time blindness somewhere along the way.

Questian Telka: Because, yeah.

Jina Etienne: That's also related to what's going on.

Questian Telka: Yeah. So.

Nancy McClelland: Um, you're, I mean, that that idea that this symptoms, um, are likely to become stronger later in life because of the difference [00:26:00] in the estrogen levels is this has to be one of the reasons that women so often go undiagnosed. Yes. And you also mentioned that the tools were actually designed around boys behavior, you know, the hyperactive and the disruptive part of it. So, um, let's let's talk a little bit about these, this missing period of diagnosis when when women are girls.

Jina Etienne: So [00:26:30] I think part of what happens is women is we are generally socialized, and there's an expectation that we're going to behave in particular ways. And so we're going to be a little bit more quiet. We're going to be what seems to be more thoughtful. Um, we're going to hold back being impulsive, because if you are impulsive, it could suggest you're emotional. And that tag for women has been a very marginalizing and dismissive, disrespectful tag [00:27:00] tag or label. And so we find ways to compensate for this. And so we find strategies. And I wouldn't say those are ADHD strategies. These are just the things that women do to comply with those norms if you will. That's strong.

Nancy McClelland: It's a it's a societal reaction to what the societal expectations for our gender are.

Jina Etienne: And then there's also some natural tendencies that women have. Women tend to be more collaborative. Women tend to be more compassionate. Women tend to think more about [00:27:30] emotional connection. But as we get older, for some of us, and I'll just say this with an I statement, look, I ain't got time for all that. Like I'm just tired. Like I'm, you know, I just don't care. That's not true. But you just lose bandwidth, you know, putting in all this energy around something. And I'm like, I don't care. Like, it's not that important to me anymore. I have other challenges to, to navigate. [00:28:00] And so and I think some of that is just resilience that chips away at. You've worked so hard to compensate for something. And it's imagine it like imagine picking up a 10 pound weight. It's not that heavy. Well. Let's let's go with the how far you're carrying.

Questian Telka: It depends on what you're doing with it.

Jina Etienne: That's my point. Imagine you're doing a bicep curl, so you're lifting up the weight and now you're holding it mid-air. Right. [00:28:30] So you're holding it not all the way up. You're holding it halfway up. And you just have to hold it like that for ten years. At first it doesn't seem that hard. Eventually it gets heavy, but you can do it. And then it gets to the point where it's so heavy, you're struggling to do it, and you're asking yourself, why am I even doing this? And then at some point you're like, oh, hell. And you just throw it down like, that's what I'm talking about. That happens.

Questian Telka: That is such.

Jina Etienne: A.

Questian Telka: Good analogy.

Nancy McClelland: And it actually, you know, [00:29:00] um, there are a lot of comorbidities that are associated with ADHD. And, um, to clarify, comorbidities doesn't mean it's causal. It just means there there is a correlation, um, in some folks with ADHD, with, um, stress, anxiety, depression, depression, And, um, if you if I were holding.

Jina Etienne: Well, can I a.

Nancy McClelland: 10 pound weight for that many years, I would I would be stressed and depressed and anxious also.

Jina Etienne: And [00:29:30] I just wanted to tweak that language a little bit.

Nancy McClelland: Okay.

Jina Etienne: Please. Because comorbidity is the presence of more than one. It's not necessarily causal.

Nancy McClelland: Right?

Questian Telka: Yes. That's right.

Nancy McClelland: There's a correlation. Yeah. Not a causation.

Questian Telka: Not a causation.

Jina Etienne: It's not even a correlation. It's like you can have allergies and asthma and one has nothing to do with the other. The other one you're more likely to have.

Questian Telka: Likely.

Jina Etienne: If you will. And so with ADHD what happens is if you are diagnosed with ADHD, [00:30:00] you are more likely to also be diagnosed with other things like autism spectrum disorder, anxiety or depressive disorders, um, bipolar disorder, um, Tourette's syndrome. Like there is data that shows that when you have one type of. Disorder like this, you are statistically more likely to have a second. It doesn't mean you will, but it doesn't come as a surprise if you do. It [00:30:30] makes it even harder, by the way. It makes navigating ADHD even more difficult. If you don't have diagnosis and you have these symptoms and you don't have an explanation, because I will say that that diagnosis was so powerful for me. It explained a lot and it gave me permission, and it stripped away some of the negative self-talk that was happening because you're just so dot, dot dot, right? Like it was something wrong with me. It wasn't [00:31:00] wrong with me. It's just the way I was and it doesn't make it bad.

Questian Telka: I'm curious for both of you. Yeah, I feel like. Yeah, when I got my my diagnosis and I started researching it and learning about all of the ways that it manifests, I was like, my whole life made sense to me. You know, it's like there are these things that I would do that would, like, drive my family or my parents crazy, and they had no idea, you know, like, I cannot [00:31:30] remember to send a birthday card to save my life, you know, and it's like, just not something that I could do. I, you know, they were always like, why do you start a hobby and you can't finish it? And I've kind of talked about this before. It's like I have so many hobbies and it's like, I love it. And I like dive in and I'm all about it. And then I'm like, ah, I'm over it now. And they're like, why can't you just pick one thing? You know, so there are all these things throughout life that it just getting that diagnosis. And it helped me really understand [00:32:00] myself a lot better and prevented me from feeling this level of guilt about just who I was. I just felt like I wasn't like, oh, I'm not good, there's something wrong with me because I do.

Jina Etienne: This syndrome on steroids.

Questian Telka: Yeah. Yes. Oh, my gosh, that's such a good analogy.

Nancy McClelland: Ooh, say that again.

Jina Etienne: I said imposter syndrome on steroids. Yes. What? It feels like syndrome on top of imposter syndrome. Right.

Questian Telka: Mhm.

Nancy McClelland: Well, [00:32:30] I'm so glad that you shared that with us because I was I was about to ask the two of you what, what's the real life impact, Ben? Um, not just having ADHD but having a diagnosis. How how have things changed for each of you? A question told us a little bit about it. Uh, Jenna, I'm curious again, you both had late diagnoses, which we've discussed is very common for women. Um, what's been the real life impact?

Jina Etienne: Well, [00:33:00] I will say self-awareness has been the single most powerful thing that I can put a label on things. One of the things I read in that book, when I was reading through the different, you know, presentations, was an inability to read social cues. Look, I'm going to get emotional now. Sorry. And the reason. Oh, please.

Nancy McClelland: There's no. We have a rule. We don't apologize for our emotions.

Questian Telka: No. And I'm going to say that. That before you go into this, you mentioned earlier about [00:33:30] how women are. We are not allowed to be emotional. And I want to turn that on its head. I'm going to say like, I am emotional and it is my strength. Yes, it is my strength. And it's like we need to embrace it like I am. I'm emotional and you know.

Nancy McClelland: And isn't that wonderful?

Questian Telka: Be emotional.

Nancy McClelland: Yes. Yes. So please.

Questian Telka: Please.

Jina Etienne: It's wonderful. And but what I what what happened for me when I read that is, that was those were words that were not in my vocabulary, that wasn't awareness, [00:34:00] that was in my vocabulary. And so I just thought that was something wrong. It's an example of that and understanding that changed the game for me. Um, and by that I mean if I was having difficulty reading social cues, then I learned how to read social cues, right? So it put me in a position of empowerment, because now I can watch for things that I didn't watch for before. Now, [00:34:30] what happened for me was I went to the other extreme. I became so worried that I wasn't reading the cues right, or I was picking up on the wrong cues, or I don't know what the cues are going to be. So I found myself pulling back and withdrawing a little bit until I could sort of calibrate. Now I'm still not that great at it, but I know this about me, and because I know this about me, I can either be a little bit more open with the person. That's like, I'm [00:35:00] having difficulty interpreting what that means, right? Like, I can actually use words.

Nancy McClelland: Yes.

Jina Etienne: You know, I have words. I could use them. Right. And and really find ways to settle into a conversation or just find strategies. And I will tell you, the number one person who has helped me with this is my husband. Um, really?

Nancy McClelland: That's wonderful. How how so what are some ways that that.

Jina Etienne: There's another story there. So my husband and I were having he can't remember [00:35:30] what we were talking about, and he remembers it as an argument and that we were either debating or discussing something. And I was saying something. And in his mind, he's like, I don't even know. How could she be saying this? Like, how is this woman I've known for all these years? And I love saying that, right? And then he said, wait a second, maybe there's more to the story. He just kept doing this over and over again, to the point where he had to think, let me just step back and figure out what's going on. And [00:36:00] the more which.

Nancy McClelland: By the way, is a beautiful example of giving someone the benefit of the doubt. And I feel like the more that we give each other the The benefit of the doubt, the more likely we are going to be to, um, help each other get underneath the surface of something.

Jina Etienne: Absolutely. And I think that's one of the reasons why learning to understand difference is powerful, because I don't expect you to know that I have ADHD. But what I'm hoping we can all do [00:36:30] by educating is add that to the lists of huh? That's it. Like, there could be something else at play here rather than going straight to judgment.

Nancy McClelland: You talked about this in your Scaling New Heights um, keynote this year, earlier this year was absolutely wonderful. You had that wonderful slide of the iceberg and digging beneath, you know, looking at but presuming that there is more under the waterline than what you [00:37:00] can see above the waterline. I love that analogy.

Questian Telka: Oh, yeah. That is beautiful.

Jina Etienne: Remind me to remind me to come back to that.

Nancy McClelland: All right, I will.

Jina Etienne: The conversation with my husband. The the thing. And by the way, I'm proud of myself for remembering because I usually don't remember anyway. Um, the thing that was most powerful is for us to understand communication styles. And so it's the way he describes it as the cleaning out of the junk drawer. So everybody has one of those drawers, and there are two general ways you clean it out. [00:37:30] One is you open the drawer, you take out all the things that you want to keep, right? Maybe you dust them off. Maybe you reorganize them and then everything else, you dump it in the trash. I love it like that. But that's his way of doing it. My way of doing it is you just dump everything out. And that would cause my husband, like, he would have hives or something if he did that. Like, that is too messy. Um, and but it was the same way in our communication. What we both [00:38:00] learned and where we had hidden frustrations is he would think and think and think. And so there are no words coming out of his mouth. And then finally he'd give me a phrase, he'd give me a word, and I get frustrated because I feel like that's it. And I'm not thinking, did you consider this? Did you consider this? Did you consider this right? Because for me, those considerations have all been put out here as words. So I'm saying it could be a, it could be B, it could be C, it could be D. [00:38:30] What about 123, four, five. And my husband is like what is she talking about? And that was the aha moment that we realized there's more going on here you know. And so now our rule, by the way, is if my husband doesn't say much, I say, Gerard, I need you to give me more than that. That's wonderful. Gerard has given me permission. I can just talk, blah blah, blah, blah blah blah, blah blah. And then I have to say, oh, I need you to. This is the part you need to hear. [00:39:00] And then I can.

Nancy McClelland: I was going to add, there's gotta be a hint for him to be able to filter all of your verbal processing. So I love that. So you're you're actually processing verbally all you want. But he has permission to tune out.

Jina Etienne: Absolutely. He doesn't.

Nancy McClelland: Have to.

Jina Etienne: Listen to me until I say, hey, this is the part I need you to hear. And usually what I've done is I've thrown all the words out there and then I'm like, oh, wait, this is what I was trying to say, and then I can tune back in with him.

Questian Telka: I just learned something [00:39:30] right now, I well, maybe I did. I'm going to ask the question is verb? Is verbal processing often an ADHD like symptom or is it something that comes along with it? Right. Because that's what I do. I'm a huge verbal processor. I can't it does. Not everyone's always like journal. And I'm like, I can't journal. That does nothing for me. I have to say it out loud.

Nancy McClelland: Thank you. The same way.

Jina Etienne: You I can't journal either.

Nancy McClelland: No.

Jina Etienne: I did try to journal. I tried it by talking into my [00:40:00] phone.

Questian Telka: I thought about.

Nancy McClelland: That. Wonderful. And one of our, our earliest guests. I think our very first guest on the program, Lynette O'Connell, she journals by, um, you know, she's she's got a wonderful Instagram channel where she's constantly doing videos, uh, where she's talking about different topics having to do with burnout. But that started as journaling for her. She would take she'd do videos of herself for herself, which I just think [00:40:30] is absolutely fascinating. Um, so you can just to clarify, you can be a verbal processor without having ADHD, but I wonder, yeah. Is there is that something that is correlated?

Questian Telka: Yeah.

Jina Etienne: I can't.

Questian Telka: I'm wondering.

Jina Etienne: Any research on that.

Questian Telka: But I haven't.

Jina Etienne: Either to do that.

Questian Telka: I know.

Nancy McClelland: Yeah. All right.

Questian Telka: I'm curious.

Jina Etienne: All right. We're going to do some research question.

Questian Telka: I know.

Jina Etienne: The answer. You let me know I will.

Questian Telka: Same for you.

Jina Etienne: Yeah I will.

Nancy McClelland: Uh, so the two of you are just amazing to me because you [00:41:00] both have accomplished so much. You, um, ah, uh, kind and empathetic people who take interest in others. You, um, contribute to society in so many different ways, which means to me that clearly you have come up with some tools and some strategies for managing ADHD, and I would love for our audience to be able to hear some of what those are and which ones have worked for you. I would also love to hear if there are some [00:41:30] that you tried that did not work for you.

Questian Telka: And I want to add, I know we need to talk about time blindness. So if we start with that, right. Like I know you wanted to to talk about it. So time blindness is something um, if you want to describe what that is and then talk about tools that you use to manage it, because I know you have a lot of them.

Jina Etienne: So my question, I'm so glad you asked. So what is the definition like? I have some notes here folks. So the definition of time blindness [00:42:00] is the inability to recognize when time has passed or to estimate how long something will take.

Questian Telka: Oh my.

Jina Etienne: Gosh, I struggle with this. And so I did do a little bit of research here. And the thing that I found really fascinating is something called I think I'm saying this right. Scalar expectancy theory. And basically what happens is it says there are two things that happen in our brain. One of them they described as the pacemaker. So think of a what's the thing that goes tick, tick, tick when you're playing piano.

Questian Telka: Oh what's [00:42:30] it called.

Jina Etienne: Oh that thing people, that thing that I was going to say monotone. But that's not it.

Questian Telka: That's what I thought.

Nancy McClelland: I had it until you said the wrong word.

Jina Etienne: Because now this theory calls it a pacemaker, so it sets it right. But then there's something called the accumulator. And so the accumulator is what counts up all of the little pulses in this pace. And what happens is if you if your pacemaker works faster [00:43:00] you're collecting more pulses and as a result, you are thinking more time has passed than actually has, or vice versa. If your pacemaker is slower, you're underestimating time. And so there are a lot of things that can happen here as well. It could be dopamine. It could be your dopamine levels are making it hard to track time intervals. And when I wanted to put together some examples of what it looks like, it could be you're missing deadlines. It could be your over or underestimating how how [00:43:30] much time something will take. Um, and it has nothing to do with not managing time. People think it's time management and I think it's time processing. And it can even be something called like regulating speed. So question I'm really curious about this for you. It could be like try to walk slower. Like try that. Is it not the most painful thing to have slow like change your physical movement speed.

Questian Telka: Yes. Like it is [00:44:00] not. It is not possible. So I was in the airport with my son yesterday and he hurt his knee in soccer and he's like, slow down. And so I'd slow down for a second and then all of a sudden I'm like, whoop! And he's way back here and.

Jina Etienne: And you're feeling unsettled. That feeling of that hyperactivity is a very it's almost tactile at that point.

Questian Telka: Yeah.

Questian Telka: Oh absolutely.

Nancy McClelland: And by the way the word is metronome. It came to me.

Questian Telka: It is it came.

Nancy McClelland: To.

Questian Telka: Me too. I was like why is my such.

Jina Etienne: Monotone.

Questian Telka: Monotone. Yeah. I was like [00:44:30] metronome.

Jina Etienne: We were close.

Questian Telka: Mine is slow. My metronome is slow.

Jina Etienne: So mine is all over the place. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's off.

Jina Etienne: So yeah.

Nancy McClelland: So how do you manage this if it's so if, if you can't try to walk slower, try to manage your time. Try to you know, try to try to process time differently. That sounds impossible. So what are you? I know that you are both [00:45:00] doing an incredible job managing these struggles. What are you doing? How how how do you handle this?

Jina Etienne: What's the.

Nancy McClelland: Solution?

Jina Etienne: Like question. What's one of yours?

Questian Telka: Uh, well, one of the things that I have to do is. And this this actually works pretty well for me is I have to shut off all notifications. I have to put my phone on dad, and then I have to say to myself, okay, because. Because I like to get up from my desk and go do stuff. I'm like, up [00:45:30] and down and up and down. And so I'm like, okay, for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, whatever it is, I'm going to sit here, I'm going to work on this one thing. And then that helps me understand a how long it takes me to complete something and recognize it. And B, um, to like, help me focus on something that is some clearly I don't want to be focusing on for whatever reason, but I really I still, I gotta be honest, like I don't have it figured out. I still really struggle with it a lot.

Nancy McClelland: Well, one [00:46:00] of the things that we do sometimes that is really helpful is I can be your accountability partner, right? Like we'll get on a call together to write up notes for the podcast, for example, because you have to be sitting there if you're going to be on camera with me, like that's a requirement. Um, and so I know that that's something that, um, um, some of the women who, uh, you and I got to spend some time with at EP camp Jenna, [00:46:30] um, who? There were some women there who have ADHD and were saying that if they could, you know, coming back from that experience of finding out that they were not alone in the world, they, uh, decided to be accountability partners to each other.

Jina Etienne: Yeah, yeah.

Questian Telka: I want to hear what do you do?

Jina Etienne: Everything and nothing. Um, so specifically. Well, I think it was interesting what you said, because I have tried saying for the next 30 [00:47:00] minutes I'm going to do X. And so at the end of the 30 minutes I looked up and I did X one ABC. I did like all these things because one thing oh which reminds me, oh, that reminds me, you know what?

Jina Etienne: Next thing you.Know, I'm seven things in and I haven't actually done anything anything. So

Questian Telka: That's why.

Jina Etienne: I've given up on that strategy. I'm so glad it works for you. And I feel like if you could send me a pill so that I could take the pill and do that, I would, um.

Questian Telka: It doesn't always work. [00:47:30] That's what I said. I'm like, I don't necessarily have it figured out because if I, for example, if I get, I cannot get in my email. If I get in my email, I'm done like I am just it's it's all over. And so during that 30 minute time, because I will have a thought, just like you're saying, and it's like I have to try to remember to shut my thoughts down. So I'll be doing something else. And it's like, oh, shoot, I needed to pay the electric bill and I'm like, so would I try to do is during those 30 minutes. Like make myself not allowed [00:48:00] to do anything else because I also might have a tendency to like, I'll get antsy and I'll like, come up with a reason to go downstairs. I'm like, I need a snack or water or whatever it is. And so.

Nancy McClelland: But I point out that that is also a super power that both of you have, which is maybe you didn't get that one thing that you were supposed to do done in that 30 minutes. But look at the seven things that actually did need to happen that you accomplished [00:48:30] during that 30 minutes. I mean, like that, that, um, one thing going to the next, going to the next, going to the next, and actually accomplishing all of those things on this winding path. That is one of the superpowers. And also, I, I know a lot of people with ADHD because, um, as as I've mentioned, I'm pretty sure this is common, more common in accounting, uh, than it is in some other industries. But, um, you'll sit down for 30 [00:49:00] minutes to do the one thing. The one thing doesn't happen. You do the seven things, but you have also sat down, sometimes for two hours, because the hyperfocus got triggered. Right?

Jina Etienne: Yeah, absolutely.

Nancy McClelland: Can you tell us a little bit about hyperfocus and what that feels like to you?

Jina Etienne: Well, I want to go back and share one of my hacks that has to do with what you just said.

Nancy McClelland: Okay.

Jina Etienne: And I won't remember your question, Nancy.

Nancy McClelland: So it's okay. We'll come back to it.

Jina Etienne: For [00:49:30] me, part of how I manage that type of productivity is none of my notifications are on ever. Um, but there are two things that I've learned. Number one is the focus settings. I have an iPhone, and on the iPhone there are focus settings. And so, for example, Mondays are supposed to be my writing days. And so my phone automatically at 9 a.m. turns off all notifications. It doesn't ring. There's nothing that shows up on my screen. And what's funny about that is, [00:50:00] you know, it's like 11:00 on a Monday and I'm like, wow, nobody's texting. Oh.

Jina Etienne: Like of course they've texted me. I've just ignored them.

Nancy McClelland: So this is you can actually I know that you can schedule the Do not Disturb. You know, my phone goes on do not disturb after a certain hour at night. I didn't realize you could do that for different days. Have a different schedule for different days.

Nancy McClelland: That's a great tip.

Jina Etienne: And you can do other things like at night at 11:00. So visual cues are so important. So what I was going to share is that [00:50:30] my calendar, I have 16 different calendars on my Google calendar so that I can control the colors because I'm.

Jina Etienne: So highly visual. And one of the things one of my the sleep focus mode on my phone seven days a week, not only does it turn on automatically at 11:00, but it dims down. It grays out all of the icons. So wow almost turn into a black and white. [00:51:00] So it changes even the, the, um, visual draw of them. Now ask me how I did it. I have no idea. Like I was playing around with the settings and I was like, oh, this is great. But it also tells me visually, oh look, it's 11:00.

Questian Telka: So I'm naughty. And I turned mine off. I'm like, oh, I turned it on. And I'm like, um, I don't want to go to bed yet or I don't want to do that. And I'm just like, turn it off. And then all the.

Nancy McClelland: So you're, you're you had [00:51:30]your, um, setting up these practical tools, but then in the moment you're undoing them. You're not following your own rules. Is that what you're saying?

Jina Etienne: Except I think the habit of doing that. You also know that you like there's another thing. Like, even though you do it, it's become part of your process.

Questian Telka: Mhm. Yeah.

Jina Etienne: Right.

Questian Telka: That's right.

Nancy McClelland: Now. Yeah and the thing that you were talking about with the different colored calendars, um, that sounds to me a lot like time blocking, which I know has been extremely I [00:52:00] mean again, not ADHD here, but I, I use time blocking for practically everything. I find it extremely helpful. And I know that that's another tool that a lot of folks with ADHD uh, do. What about some support systems that y'all are leaning into?

Jina Etienne: Um, like support systems?

Nancy McClelland: I know we talked about accountability partners, but, you know, therapy coaching. I know some people who've had really great experiences with that.

Questian Telka: I mean, mine is probably [00:52:30] more so like medical, I guess. Right. So my support system would be I mean, I have a therapist. We don't talk a lot about ADHD, but I have med medicine that I take. Um, I actually they give me Ritalin because the, the, um, the other one.

Jina Etienne: Adderall.

Questian Telka: Adderall is a little too strong for me. So they have me on like a kid dose of Ritalin, which seems to do the job for me just fine. Um, most of the time.

Jina Etienne: What's interesting you say that because medication affects [00:53:00] our brains differently. There's Ritalin, there's Adderall, there's vyvanse. Those are the real common ones.

Questian Telka: Mmhmm.

Jina Etienne: I have epilepsy, and I literally just was at the neurologist the other day, and he said, I noticed you never filled your prescription for Adderall. And I had long acting Adderall. And I said, well, because it made me feel this way. He said, well, we can just put you on a different medication. And he explained how, don't ask me. I can't tell you what he said, but.

Jina Etienne: That it could be that the way it was affecting my brain resulted [00:53:30] in me feeling the things that I was feeling. So just switch to a different medication. So for anybody listening, if you've been resistant to medications, you had a reaction on one. Try another before you dismiss it all together.

Jina Etienne: I'm so glad that works for you.

Nancy McClelland: You had mentioned earlier that as we age and our hormones change, especially those hormones that are related to ADHD, um, your medication, you might have to change your medication as well, [00:54:00] because those hormonal changes are going to affect how the medication is affecting your brain. Um, and hormone therapy replacement can actually be a solution for menopause related changes.

Jina Etienne: That's exactly what I was going to say. Estrogen replacement therapy. Um, I know people have different opinions about that, but if it's something that you are interested and open to exploring that can help with the regulation of the dopamine. Yes. Even though we're struggling with dopamine levels like you're having compounding issues. So by [00:54:30] using medication on both sides, you're starting to level out some of those, um, some of those effects that you're having.

Nancy McClelland: Now, you told me to remind you to come back to a couple of things, and, um, they're related to to what I want to talk about next. Anyway, you talked about coming back to the iceberg and you talked about hyperfocus because the ADHD is a superpower for me as a boss, for me [00:55:00] as boss lady of my own company and a lot of people, uh, I have had to learn to not see ADHD as a, um, as only a negative. I have had to learn. Hey, there's some pretty amazing things that come from ADHD as well. And I know hyperfocus is one of them. And you told me to come back to that.

Jina Etienne: Yeah, I think that hyperfocus, um, it's great [00:55:30] if you can manage it. And I think part of the reason maybe there's that negative view is because people sometimes use ADHD as an excuse.

Questian Telka: Right?

Jina Etienne: They blame their problem on having ADHD rather than leaning into the strengths. So hyper focus means when I'm in the zone, I can really work. And so if you know, Nancy, if you were my boss and I could just we have an understanding that I say, listen, I'm in the zone, then you trust that I'm going to get [00:56:00] my work done and say, you know what? Gina's going dark because she's really in the zone, and that's okay. Um, it doesn't mean I get to blow other things off. I'm still held accountable, but it's understanding that I'm in a particular work mode, and that is a superpower for me. And when I'm when I'm in that work mode, I'm really going to knock stuff out.

Nancy McClelland: And this is one of the many reasons that I am a huge fan of flexible schedules [00:56:30] and remote part time work. These are all things that can if if you have these as a policy in your firm and you've done personality tests and and had open discussions, um, with your, uh, team members about what works for them. You can actually help them set up a schedule that is going to make them more productive. And if they're more productive, they're generally happier.

Jina Etienne: Yeah. [00:57:00]

Jina Etienne: I will give one caveat, and that is self-disclosure. At work. There are people who worry about self-disclosure because if you disclose something to your boss sometimes, and it depends on the size of organizations listeners are in, sometimes the HR team will have to feel this obligation to now do some things, compensate in some ways. Um, and so it can be uncomfortable to go on the record with someone,

Nancy McClelland: But wouldn't that be a good thing if. [00:57:30]

Jina Etienne: Understanding how you work your you don't have to reveal that you have ADHD. If you can explain what your strengths are.

Questian Telka: Yes.

Questian Telka: Yeah, I can see that too. I mean, I'll be honest, you know, doing a podcast and sharing openly and vulnerably. Vulnerably, like, you know, that I struggle at certain times to complete a task that's not something I'm as interested in. I mean, I'm sure that I have clients that, listen, we have colleagues that listen and, and and so it's, um, it is a challenge, [00:58:00] I think, but openly. And it's different in the workplace. Right. But openly sharing about it, I think, is what has having somebody else openly share about it is what helped me really gain that understanding about myself, which is so important and life changing.

Jina Etienne: Yeah.

Nancy McClelland: So some of the other benefits of ADHD that, um, I have heard about that. I'm curious to know if, if either of you personally have experienced.

Questian Telka: I [00:58:30] have heard I can't cite some research on this because I've read it many times, but I've never like, I don't. I didn't actually find a piece of data on it, but, um, a lot of women who I've spoken to and myself included, and I would be interested to see or hear if this is the case for you as well. Like, I have a high sense of intuition and emotional [00:59:00] awareness in other people, and I am extremely empathetic, like extremely empathetic.

Jina Etienne: Those are markers for ADHD.

Jina Etienne: Yes, yes, yes, and highly creative.

Jina Etienne: Um, which is me, because you tend to think about a lot of things. Ideation is something that people with ADHD, um, tend to be good at. Um, you don't think you think you don't even have a box to think inside of? Like, you know, so that's [00:59:30] the positives of the ADHD brain or some of the ways that it shows up.

Jina Etienne: Um, yeah.

Jina Etienne: I'm, I'm listing those because those are mine. When I did a couple of assessments, a couple of things that came back to me were honesty, empathy, um, creativity, ideation, appreciation of beauty and excellence. That's one of the reasons I have a policy. I am not allowed to wear headphones or have devices when I'm out walking. Doug. [01:00:00] Um, and it's great because on the one hand, it allows me to be distracted. I'm like, oh, look at that bird. Hey, there's a flower. Why is that twig there? Oh, look at that rock on the road. Like, I do that all the time. But it also means I'm being absolutely present and appreciating what's around me. So I'm giving my brain permission to just be. Just be right, and it's okay.

Nancy McClelland: Yeah, absolutely.

Nancy McClelland: Um, so.

Questian Telka: We probably should [01:00:30] wrap up, but I wanted to say quickly before, um, unless you have anything else you want to add, I This has been like and this has been enlightening. I feel like this has been a therapy session for me. Just being able to sit here and talk to somebody else who has it and has similar experiences, and to be able to share ours. It's been it's been it's been amazing.

Jina Etienne: Yeah, I feel the same way, especially Nancy. You balancing us out.

Jina Etienne: Because I.

Jina Etienne: Know that's important though. I feel like what you're showing for others [01:01:00] is that you don't have to have ADHD to understand it, and you experience some of the very same things, but it just shows up differently for you.

Nancy McClelland: It shows up differently. And I think the scale of it is very different. Um, one of the things that my therapist always reminds me is every once in a while, I'll worry that something that I have going on, um, I'll say, well, how do I know if I have X, Y, or Z thing in my life? And she said, it's it's doesn't become [01:01:30] a clinical diagnosis until whatever it is that you're dealing with interferes with your life.

Jina Etienne: Yes.

Nancy McClelland: And that is the point where you start to put a name on it. And so I think it's important for everyone here who's listening to remember that just because you have issues with this, that or the other thing, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have ADHD, because we all struggle with a lot of these things, to maybe lesser extent [01:02:00] than people who would end up, um, with a clinical diagnosis. And I think it's also important to remember that, you know, these superpowers are are double edged. And, you know, every once in a while I'll be like, oh, I must have ADHD because I have these things. And when I remember scale wise that, um, you know, I don't have the same creativity that y'all do, but I also don't have to deal with idea overload. I.

Questian Telka: Um, you're [01:02:30] very creative. Very much.

Nancy McClelland: I do not think of myself that way. Except in the kitchen.

Jina Etienne: Oh. you are. And I think that the other thing that's important about that is it's not just that you are creative. And there are. I have this list in front of me. There are 20 different what they call chronic disturbances. You can have any one of them. You can have 5 or 6 of them. That just makes you human. But when you have ten, 12 and 14 of them, perhaps there's something else that's happening in the brain. And so that's what's important [01:03:00] to remember. We all have all of these things a little bit, but some of us have a lot of these things all the time.

Questian Telka: A lot of it.

Nancy McClelland: Well thank you so much for coming and and being, um, you know, a therapist for question over here and vice versa.

Jina Etienne: Vice versa.

Nancy McClelland: As we wrap up, we'd love to ask listeners to please follow our She Counts Podcast LinkedIn page and to join in on this very [01:03:30] conversation by sharing under the episode ADHD chaos with a side of brilliance, which I think question. That was a brilliant title that you picked for this episode.

Nancy McClelland: Thank you.

Nancy McClelland: Yeah. So share with us your experiences with ADHD, whether it's as a, um, as a a boss, as a coworker, as somebody who struggles with it yourself, whether you've been diagnosed [01:04:00] or not, whether you were diagnosed in your childhood, please share your experiences with ADHD with us on that LinkedIn page. We're very, very happy to, um, to see our followers number on LinkedIn has exploded. It's wonderful. So we're we're having some great conversations. And and so thank you to all of you who've been participating in those.

Jina Etienne: And thank you for having me. This has been amazing.

Questian Telka: Where you've been amazing. This has been. Yeah, wonderful. I'm so thankful that you came and shared [01:04:30] your knowledge. Um, and before we sign off, I'm going to leave everyone with a quote by you. Actually, our our esteemed guest. The labels we've been using do not reflect the beautiful, complex diversity that lives within each of us. And that inclusion isn't about them. It's about how we show up for others. It's beautiful.

Nancy McClelland: What a beautiful quote Jina.

Jina Etienne: I said that.

Nancy McClelland: Yes you did.

Nancy McClelland: It [01:05:00] was in an article of yours, actually, that I will make sure to link to in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here with us on She Counts, the Real Talk podcast for women in accounting.

Questian Telka: If something in today's episode hit home for you, well, that's exactly why we're doing this.

Nancy McClelland: So you feel seen, heard, and never alone.

Questian Telka: Remember that you can get CPE credit for listening at earmarked App links [01:05:30] to that, as well as how to learn more about our sponsors, solutions and any other resource will be in the show notes.

Nancy McClelland: And please subscribe please. It really helps other people find the podcast, and if you can, go the extra step and leave us a review as well on whatever platform you're listening on, we would really appreciate it.

Questian Telka: We love to read them.

Nancy McClelland: We do. Oh my gosh, it makes us feel so wonderful. As a matter of fact, we're going to start sharing [01:06:00] some of them with you on the podcast in later episodes. Um, please share with another woman in accounting who needs to hear it too.

Questian Telka: And many thanks to our amazing guest, Jenna Etienne.

Jina Etienne: Yes, thank you so much for having me. It's been great to be here.

Nancy McClelland: We'll see everyone in two weeks. Thanks for being here.

Questian Telka: Thank you.