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In a world of AI-generated noise and automated outreach, Cliff Simon has built a multi-million dollar business by doing something simple but rare: showing up in person.
In this episode, Cliff shares how he turned events, community dinners, and authentic relationships into a powerful go-to-market strategy. He breaks down why most event-based approaches fail, what it really means to play the long game, and how founders and revenue leaders can drive growth without relying on cold outreach.
Never miss a new episode! Join our newsletter at revenueformula.substack.com
Never miss a new episode! Join our newsletter at revenueformula.substack.com
- (00:00) - Introduction
- (01:53) - The Importance of In-Person
- (06:01) - The Role of Pavilion
- (08:08) - Building Relationships
- (12:09) - Building for Long Term
- (16:41) - Modern Networking Tactics
- (21:58) - Evaluating Event Success
- (24:57) - Common Misconceptions in Event Strategy
- (26:34) - Effective Event Strategies
- (31:39) - The Power of Personal Branding
- (32:13) - Comparing Rev Ops Events
- (36:28) - Next Week: What You Need to Know About Consultants
Creators and Guests
What is The Revenue Formula?
This podcast is about scaling tech startups.
Hosted by Toni Hohlbein & Raul Porojan, together they look at the full funnel.
With a combined 20 years of experience in B2B SaaS and 3 exits, they discuss growing pains, challenges and opportunities they’ve faced. Whether you're working in RevOps, sales, operations, finance or marketing - if you care about revenue, you'll care about this podcast.
If there’s one thing they hate, it’s talk. We know, it’s a bit of an oxymoron. But execution and focus is the key - that’s why each episode is designed to give 1-2 very concrete takeaways.
TRF - How Cliff Simon Drives Millions by Simply Showing Up
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[00:00:00]
Introduction
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Toni: In a world of AI generated noise, authenticity is what still cuts through. But how can you be authentic? Well, the answer is simple. You have to show up. Show up to your customer's offices, go to events where they are as well. Set up community dinners. This is exactly how Cliff Simon has driven millions
of revenue by being present. Today we break down exactly how he's doing it so you can do it too. Enjoy.
Cliff: You're not necessarily always going in with the expectation that you're selling something, but you should be going in with the expectation of curiosity, trying to learn something new within the B2B space.
We want to buy the way that we do in our consumer lives. That experience is largely driven off of word of mouth and referral, and we typically have those conversations, if not over text in person with the people that we know and trust. What is realistic is to spend time, get to know people, develop relationships that can build you a really solid [00:01:00] long tail.
But you have to be willing to play the long game.
Toni: Do you wanna start off with, um, your new logistical challenge that you just shared with me?
Cliff: Yeah. The new logistical challenge is, uh, we are expecting baby number four, which is wild. Uh, we've been married six years, got pregnant on the honeymoon, and uh, the last.
The last six years have been quite intense,
Toni: you know, other people would say very efficient. So congratulations, obviously to the two of you. Hope great. But I'm not German, so I can't say that, you know, but I mean, let's, let's get into the first thing you and I started chatting about when we met first was like, oh, you're what?
A quarter Dutch, or what was it? What was it? I'm
Cliff: half, you know, I'm a full, I'm a full-blooded citizen, you know, got my KM hat. Got the 7, 4, 7, you know, gotta have Iax here. There's some Dutch paraphernalia back there, some orange.
Toni: Nice. Um, cliff.
The Importance of In-Person
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Toni: So I think we had one or two calls once, but actually we spent more time in person than [00:02:00] on the phone, which is probably something very unusual, very different, very unusual, I would say.
Which was also the reason why I was like, Hey, you know what, cliff, we need to get you on and. Instead of talking about a lot of this rev ops as a service at Caribbean Group and, and all the go-to market knowledge that you have, which is truly impressive and we should dive into that maybe another time and maybe we do a little bit today.
I. What I thought was really interesting about you is that you literally travel everywhere, uh, talk to everyone on every event, um, do this whole thing that everyone is preaching. You actually go and execute it, right, while having three, and now three plus one kids at home, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, jumping into this kind of, how, how did you come to.
This idea, I want to say, of being so in person driven, going to all of those events, doing all of that stuff. How did this develop?
Cliff: Well, I think in part, I'm an extrovert, so that helps. Mm. Yeah. Um, [00:03:00] but even pre COVID, um, some of my first sales jobs were door to door. Right. Um, I was literally, you know, we call it pounding the pavement for a Fortune 20.
Right. You went in and you. Met people and you built the, the rapport and you sold to them face to face 'cause you learned about their business and their actual challenges. And it was very consultative. Um, so it doesn't, it doesn't feel odd to me in that regard. Right. Um, I. You're not necessarily always going in with the expectation that you're selling something, but you should be going in with the expectation of curiosity, trying to learn something new.
Uh, in my case, I've been in dozens of industries, so I want to be able to constantly learn new things for myself, and sometimes there's really interesting overlap with the things that I've seen. So I think that's fun to share. Um, I also have a really deep seated belief that within the B2B space. We want to [00:04:00] buy the way that we do in our consumer lives.
And that experience is largely driven off of word of mouth and referral. And we typically have those conversations, if not over text, in person with the people that we know and trust. So I think that really drives a lot of behavior.
Toni: So. You've been a sales rep for Fortune 20. Um, and this in-person stuff makes absolute sense.
It feels for many of us, maybe my generation feels almost like archaic, like long time ago. Um, but then I can't be that much older than, than you maybe. I don't know. Let's just play along with this for now. Okay. Um, but, uh, ultimately the, the in-person sales stuff versus the, what I see you do. Going to communities and being there in person, showing up.
Um, those are still two different things, right? Both of them are in person. Yes. Um, but the community piece was, when did that develop? Was that something with Caribbean group? [00:05:00] Was this a post COVID thing? Kind of. How did you get into that modus of, of operating?
Cliff: So pre COVID. Try to find those pockets where my customers would go to get help, right?
Where were the places that they went to to get their questions answered and start developing relationships there? Um, whether that was at, um, conferences, you know, even if your company went by you, the, the ticket, maybe you show up at the bar or the hotel and sort of hawk people's LinkedIn and their badges, right?
Um, in a post COVID world, everything shifted to online and you were able to. Go into these communities and develop relationships. 'cause people were looking for that human connection. Uh, and where, where that sits now is you have the ability to meet people online in these types of places. Mm-hmm. But then that all becomes amplified by actually meeting them in person.
Mm-hmm. I don't think that it works if you just do one or the other. [00:06:00] You have to have both.
The Role of Pavilion
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Toni: I mean we had, we had Sam on the show a a while back actually, and I think he was also reflecting on some of his experiences building pavilion where everything was in the beginning, very local. Mm-hmm. Then shifted very much digital.
Right. I think I. Chapters was a thing before and then it wasn't. Um, yep. And then actually realizing that this was one of the main things. Right. Um, you are, you're kind of, you know, I actually don't know, but you're probably a chapter hat for, for somewhere, um, in pavilion. Right. Kind of why, why did you, why did you take up that burden?
Kind of, because it's also a lot of work. It's responsibility. I know there's a couple of things that chapter heads actually need to, need to do. Um, why, why did you do this? Why did you take this up?
Cliff: I personally have learned so much. In pavilion, whether it was taking like CRO school or revenue growth architecture, uh, or just like the relationships that I've developed, there are people that I have met over the last, you know, five plus years of being in [00:07:00] pavilion that have given me incredible advice that I would never have been able to get anywhere else.
And being a chapter, it's one of my ways of being able to give back to the community and say, thank you.
Toni: I think it's super honorable. I think it's absolutely honorable, and I think, um, too little of, I. The B2B world is, is thinking about it this way and is driven by this. I think a lot of people are thinking, what can I get first?
Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. What's your opinion on that?
Cliff: If you are looking to extract without ever feeding into something, you are never gonna feel like you're getting enough. Right. And it's never gonna be fulfilling. Like you, you might hit some commercial target, but that's not why these things exist. Right. Um, yeah, I, I'm very bought in on Sam's entire idea of, you know, you give, to give.
Mm-hmm. I think it's so [00:08:00] much more powerful, uh, the relationships I've built. No, no commercial value could be placed on that. Right.
Building Relationships
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Toni: Do you have like one or two examples that you want to go deeper in on and say like, Hey, this was crazy.
Cliff: Yeah, so when I, when I took CRO school, um, God, whenever the heck, that was now, uh, I still have a cohort.
It was probably like eight to 10 of us that still show up on a Zoom call every two weeks for the last three and a half years. And we've helped each other with. Job offers. Uh, when we sold carabiner, um, the guys took a look at my, uh, my equity agreements and all that kind of stuff. Um, we've helped each other with things like marriages, divorces, having to go through Arif, having to, uh, execute a rif, right?
So all the different things that you go through and to be around folks. And I'm probably one of the younger guys in the group, right? There's a couple of us under 40. Um. There's a bunch of [00:09:00] guys in there that are in their fifties, a couple in their sixties, a couple that have VC and PE backgrounds, a couple who've had three to five exits.
So being able to get that level of knowledge together, um, in a trusted space where I can call any one of them any day of the week and they will answer, like, that's incredibly valuable to me. And I think that's like the cornerstone of what communities like pavilion are built on.
Toni: To say it bluntly, I think there's monetary value in this too though, right?
I mean, you have been, um, obviously building the group, um, and I think you mentioned somewhere that. A majority of the revenue. I don't, I, I don't know when that was specifically, but a majority of revenue, um, could be attributed somehow. I don't know how you do it, and maybe that's a different topic, but back, I mean, back to some of those events.
Right.
Cliff: So, yeah, I'd have to go back and look at the data on the event side. I know on the community, word of mouth side, uh, year one was like 53, [00:10:00] 50 6%. Year two was. High eighties, low, no, sorry, it was in the, uh, nineties of percentile, and then high eighties for year three was driven back to that concept and pavilion in those first two and a half years, probably like 40% of the revenue was coming through that.
But it was never selling, right? It was never selling. It was, it was showing up and having conversations with people and you know, getting referrals.
Toni: So that was almost my point, right. So this. This level of impact. And again, right? I think so. Carabina group, what, what is that? It's kind of revenue operations as a service.
I think this is how you guys started out. I'm not sure if that's still the positioning. Um, consultative sale, big tickets, I assume, right? Big. Mm-hmm. Big Fortune 500 kind of customers.
Cliff: Um, no, most of our customers like series A to series D
Toni: and obviously it's kind of a trust based sale that needs to happen there.
Right? So kind of community totally makes sense, but I think the more important point here is. Um, you didn't go to those events and said, Hey, I'm from Cino Group. Those are the things we're doing. [00:11:00] Do you wanna buy you? You came there with a very different, uh, approach, right? Yeah. And I think this is, it's, it's, it's.
I think this is a difficult thing to grasp for people to be like, um, I kind of have a business purpose here that should result in a business outcome. Um, but the way to go about it, and I don't mean this in a Machiavellian way, way, the way to go about it is, is not to try and go straight for the goal, but be helpful, be a member, be part of it.
And then good things will come from it, right? I mean, that's not only what I'm hearing from you right now. It's what I'm hearing from a bunch of people. And I just think it's really difficult for many folks to, you know, take this leap of faith like, oh, you know what, instead of spending this time and traveling there and showing up and at those events, maybe we just buy a sponsorship package of 40 K.
But you should do that too. I'm not talking this down, but you know, there's, [00:12:00] um, you know, it, it feels like. Um, it's a shortcut when it might actually not be right. I'm not sure what you, what your, what your view on this is.
Building for Long Term
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Cliff: When I think of building a business, I don't think about, I. Just the short term, how can I get revenue in the door in the next three to six months?
Yes, that there's always that, right? Um, but you also have to be thinking of the long tail of the business. What are people gonna say about you when you're not in the room anymore, when you don't have the ability to be in the room? How can you drive influence and perspective? In those moments, because in most buying cycles, you're not gonna be there, right?
You're what present for five to 10% maybe of a buying cycle, um, at the most, depending on how many vendors they're evaluating, so, mm-hmm. I don't think it's realistic to show up and try to just throw up with your sales pitch all over people. What is realistic is to spend time, get to know people, develop relationships, [00:13:00] and that can build you a really solid long tail, but you have to be willing to play the long game.
Mm-hmm. Right. Um, got calls from folks to do some really serious work. You know, seven figures worth of work kind of thing. Um, mm-hmm. Two years after you met him for the first time and you haven't talked in a year and a half. Right. Um, but showing up and being genuine and helping instead of trying to always take, take, take, take, take, um, has a significant psychological effect.
And yeah, it helps, it's the right thing to do. So like. We all win.
Toni: You know, we talked about you having what? Uh, a Dutch mom, dad, I forgot.
Cliff: Uh, both my parents are in though. So Dutch and Indonesian. Yeah.
Toni: Yes. My, my point being, I'm trying to put you into a little bit of a European box here too, right? Yeah.
Basically saying like, Hey, obviously you, you, you're us guy. Uh, but basically the two times I saw you. You came here. I didn't [00:14:00] go to the us right. I mean mm-hmm. And, and this was, um, twice in Berlin in what, four weeks? Six weeks or something like this? So really, really short time actually. The, the question that I actually have is, do you think that the.
And you and I at the event, we talked about the difference in mindset and rev ops between the US and Europe. And you know, some people will DM me now and like, yeah, what did Cliff say? But, uh, my bigger point is actually, um, do you think there's a difference also in how Europeans go about those communities?
Do they, do they think less short term? Is that less of a thing for them, or is it, is it the same between those two communities or, you know, cultures rather.
Cliff: That's interesting. I, I think in the US it tends to be a more, a more give or get, get, get, right? Mm-hmm. Um, I think there's a lot more folks over here who are driven to go and get the thing.
So my experience with folks in Europe is that they tend to be a lot more collaborative. [00:15:00] They tend to look for consensus more often, and I don't know if that's a way to evolve. That, that an evolution of trying to avoid creating unnecessary tension or, yeah. I don't know. You, Germans have, have ways about you.
Um, but yeah, things do move considerably slower in the European market, uh, even the decision making process. Right. And I wonder if more folks were involved in things like a pavilion. I. You could drive the overall education level of unit economics and what it means to actually run a company versus look at my product.
Isn't this thing amazing? I think that could be beneficial and I, I think that's actually the biggest difference in mindset. Most of Europe creates a really good product, but they have no idea how to tell [00:16:00] that value proposition and how to relate that to the return that a customer should expect. I. By and large,
Toni: I think you can ask any European and they will say, Americans know how to sell and how to market.
Like that's for sure. Question I have, right? Kind of. I'm sitting here, uh, I'm, I'm someone maybe listening to this podcast and I'm thinking, Hey, this Cliff guy, amazing Kav, you drove so much revenue from this thing. Uh, I always want to, you know, get. Find more revenue streams. We're seeing the whole AI development of, oh, you can't trust an email anymore.
As soon you can't trust the voice call anymore. Even a video call is a question mark. So the real, real thing is gonna be in person, right? Mm-hmm.
Modern Networking Tactics
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Toni: If, if you were to start over in this day and age, um. With your belief system, by the way. Um, how, how would you go about it? Like how, how would you, how would you get started into this community slash event slash in-person, um, [00:17:00] environment,
Cliff: um, value focused?
I would try to find four to six topics that folks are talking about and then run a round table slash q and a session type of event. Uh, you know, basically like a larger scale workshop, maybe something in the na nature of like 30 to 60 folks. And then I'd break out a chunk of them for dinner afterwards and I'd get sponsors to cover the cost by and large.
Mm-hmm. And I would do that every other month or every month. Yeah. In different cities around the country.
Toni: Yeah, and show up obviously and kind of run the whole thing. Um, when, when I talked to, to kind of, he was talking about this, this whole human led growth, I think kind of that's the, the, the, the term for this now.
But he was also talking about, um, you know, being the keynote speaker at an event is kind of cool, [00:18:00] but what actually really drives engagement and, and to a degree. Then also, um. Follow up. I actually model those workshop style q and a style sessions. Yeah. Now I hear you immediately jump there. Um, is that, is that also your experience?
Cliff: I think so, right. Um, I think keynoting or being able to be on a stage is, is great and it's good optics and you can get a message across and try to help drive education, but. Most people learn hands-on when they have the ability to wrestle with a concept. And I think being able to give feedback and speak into it, uh, and participate is a big p big part of that.
So, um, that's why the workshops or round tables, whatever you wanna call it, tend to work so well.
Toni: Let me switch gears a little bit. Mm-hmm. So you've been traveling a lot, not only to Europe, you know, the US is a big place too, right? Sure. It's not like you just drive down the street and then there's another meetup. It's, uh, you traveling all [00:19:00] over the place. Um, what are your, what are your, you know, tips and tricks in order to get all of that logistically done? Right? You, because, you know, to a degree. You traveling, talking to people. Um, sure. This is, you know, giving, giving to give, and it's, it, it's building relationships.
It's also, let's just say, um, if you wanna box it in, it's also a sales and marketing, um, effort to a degree. Sure. Right. But then there also needs to be all the other stuff of running a company, um, and, and, you know, delivering the services and. Then you have your family that is ever growing, kind of, how do you, how do you get all of this under one, under one roof?
How do you squeeze all of that into 24 hours?
Cliff: There's only 24 hours in a day crap. Um, yeah, I mean, it, it, my, my wife is incredible. I'll start there, and she does a great job with the house and the kids and making sure that everything's always pretty [00:20:00] steady here. It's not the easiest for sure. And there's so many different things going on that you have to ruthlessly prioritize.
And I think in the earlier days when you're trying to figure out what's working, what's the right messaging, what's the right event, what's the right strategy, going into an event, you, you play around a lot and you sort of start figuring out what works. I think for me, one of the important things of being at all of these different events is I'm constantly talking to.
The people that are typically my ICP and I get to hear all of their challenges, what's going on in the market, what they're looking for. And, uh, I feel like it for, for our firm, my role is really to be at the forefront of it, to make sure I understand what the market is demanding and what mm-hmm it, the market requires of us.
And the only way to get that is to be speaking with people in real time. Um, yeah, as far as like the logistics, I typically don't work on planes. Um, [00:21:00] I sleep really well there, so that, that works. Um. Then, yeah, it's checking emails constantly when you're not in person at a event, scheduling time to do that, and then scheduling time at the end of the evening to write follow up emails, Salesforce notes, um, following up on what's going on throughout the day.
I think the other thing I've gotten much more comfortable with over the last year or two is just doing regular check-ins with the team, so. Not being afraid to step away. And now I know like the run of show of a lot of the different types of events we're going to, so I can typically find the right times to go and schedule to be with the team or to get on that sales call or to mm-hmm.
Get with marketing or whatever it's that I'm supposed to be doing
Toni: kind of in this process. Right. Kind of on the one hand side, you are understanding the structure of each of these events better, which makes it. You know, possible for you to squeeze the rest of your day into this, more or less, right?
Mm-hmm.
Evaluating Event Success
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Toni: That's how I'm understanding, but like, how do [00:22:00] you, how do you know that something was a good event? Like, how do you, how do you get to the conclusion on the flight, back home thinking about, you know, what, next year I should show up again? You know, how, how do you, how do you make that decision?
Cliff: Did the right type of people show up that I need to be speaking to?
Is this, was that event part of a strategy to drive revenue this year or next? Or was it market research? Right, right. There's different reasons to be in different places. Was it brand, was it, was it actually a sales motion? So I think all of those factors go into whether or not an event was solid. We typically look at pipeline attribution.
Within a trailing nine months. So I am typically looking for some type of ROI on an event within a nine month window. So I, I am not gonna know right away. Yes, there's always the, uh, the event where you show up and you end up talking to four people that have the need right now, like, great, awesome. Right.
Um, ideally you walk [00:23:00] away from every event with at least one.
Toni: So what are you saying is on the flight back, you're probably not gonna know. Um, and then you basically have a, a nine month trailing, I mean, whatever. Like that's, that's how your rev ops guys is calculating it. But, but ultimately you basically kind of give yourself quite some time for, um, that connection to nurture into.
Actual demand. Fine. Yeah,
Cliff: yeah, yeah. I mean, I can think of a, a, one of the very first dinners we ever did was in p with Pavilion in Denver. You know, eight months later we get a call from a Sierra who attended it. The message was literally, uh, through LinkedIn, right? Hey, dunno if you remember me, I attended this dinner.
We've got someone that's exiting the business. We need some help. Can we talk? Mm-hmm. You have a signed contract in 21 days. Right. So like the, the goal with this is to always be top of mind and to make it so that folks are never even going to a second option. Build the trust, build the, build the faith.
Toni: No, exactly.
I was about to say that, right. Kind of some of these assignments, uh, [00:24:00] they feel pretty plug and play with you guys. I. For your clients because the trust is already there. Right? There's, there's, there's, you know, I would even assume some kind of a culture fit, and I mean this in a more corporate sense, um, that happens there where people then think like, you know what, I'll just get Cliff and his crew in.
Um, and that might even feel to them very plug and play instead of this other very anonymous option that they found. On Google search, which they would never do anyway, by the way. So, yeah. So that's, that's, that's basically, that's basically how this works for you guys.
Cliff: Yeah, a lot of it for sure. I think the important part there is that the team delivers, right?
I. The team delivers that there can be all the trust in the world in me as a person or a brand or whatever you want to call it. But at the end of the day, the team has to deliver. And that's what's made this work so well is that the team always shows up. They're incredible.
Common Misconceptions in Event Strategy
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Toni: Let's take this the other way around.
[00:25:00] What are, what are things people misunderstand? What are misconceptions? What is it? What does the people do wrong around this? Um. Maybe just kind of kicking you off a little bit, I think if you are selling a high commodity SMB, you know, $9 a month kind of product. Maybe that isn't the right motion for you anyway.
Um, yeah, that's right. So this is really more the consultative way. Um, and I don't want you to necessarily kind of cluster this into like, Hey, you need to be at this a CV, but what are the, you know, what do you see other folks doing wrong when they start thinking about I. Um, this kind of approach in building a revenue stream, but then that's the only one, or it's the main one, or it's just an adjacent one.
What, what do you see most people do wrong here?
Cliff: I think that they invest dollars without understanding what the time and effort is required. In order to execute on that, you can be really scrappy and have a very effective event strategy. [00:26:00] You can also spend a ton of money and get it completely wrong. It doesn't always make sense to spend 30, 40, a hundred thousand dollars, whatever it might be on a booth.
Mm-hmm. Is the right ICP gonna be there? Do you have an execution plan of what you're gonna do when you're actually in the room? Do you, have you done the research ahead of time of who's gonna be there and looked up all their faces on a lookbook or like on LinkedIn or however it is that your team does that?
Right. Those are the things you need to be thinking about ahead of time. 'cause you need to go into it with a plan.
Toni: So a couple of really interesting things here.
Effective Event Strategies
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Toni: Uh, number one, you, you find a new event or you find an event, um, what are the prerequisites that need to be in place for you to be like, yeah, that's probably the right spot.
And let's just say your ICP is gonna be there, right? Do you. Does there have to be some kind of a requirement for you to say like, Hey, I need a speaker slot, or I need, um, a, a q and A session, or I need to host a dinner, or are [00:27:00] there like specific check boxes that you guys have figured out that if this isn't in place, even though my ICPs there probably doesn't make sense for me to show
Cliff: if enough of my ICP is there, it's probably worth it for me to throw a dinner.
That's usually a given. Then there's probably gonna be multiple events. This, uh. The week before I saw you, I was at Pavilion, CRO summit in, in Denver. Right. Um, we did a dinner the night before. I was expecting 20 people. We got like 40 that registered, like, which is awesome. It's great. Um, and we had like 25 that showed up, so we had to get more tables pushed together.
To your point earlier. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's always fun. The conversations lively and people get value out of it, which is. The goal for that is never to sell. It's, Hey, we're all together. The goal is you should meet one or two new people that you find interesting that you want to connect with after this, right?
Mm-hmm. Um, I, I think [00:28:00] that bringing of people together in itself is valuable. I. Um, when it comes to other events Yeah. For, if I'm going to go to Europe, I'm probably going to, like, I need a speaking slot most likely. Right. Um, otherwise it's not necessarily worth the squeeze. And I think just where the European market is for me, from a rev ops perspective, uh, it gives an opportunity to help educate about the things that we've been doing over here for the last, you know, four and a half years, so.
Mm-hmm. Um, which again, people seem to be hungry for. Maybe I'm wrong, but the feedback seems to
Toni: No, no, I think, I think you're right about this. I'm, I'm hearing this dinner thing a lot actually. Uh, more and more and more and more. Um, yeah, and the thing is, to your point, if you wanna be super scrappy about it, you can go out and have someone else for the bill actually.
Right? Kind of. There's always someone that wants to put the label on the dinner. Um, whether that's Pavilion or someone else doesn't, you know, I'm not sure kind of how this whole thing works. Um, but to your point, you can, you [00:29:00] can put it together, you can bring the people there. You can, you can be the, you know, so to speak, the toast master of this thing.
Um. Mm-hmm. And, um, and make sure everyone has a good time. Everyone kind of becomes aware of you, uh, to a degree. Um, but someone else could be the official sponsor and so forth. Right? Is is that. I, I kind of caught this. Right, right. Kind of that's, that's part that is a viable strategy. Let's just say it like that.
Cliff: I would say it's a viable strategy. It's not the only one, but yeah, definitely viable.
Toni: Then tell us, tell us other awesome viable strategies to kind of get this, get this off of the ground.
Cliff: I mean, there's some fun ones out there, right? You, we haven't pulled this, but I've seen many other brands do this successfully, which is you go in and you wear something very loud and very obnoxious, something that's going to get people's eyes.
Um, there's a, a FinTech startup a while back. I don't even remember what they did. It was called Treasury. [00:30:00] And I remember them showing up to Saster with a team of like seven or eight and they were all wearing gold sequined jackets. Right? It's just, it stood out. Right. Um, think about the Chili Piper branding, the black bomber jackets with the orange logo on it.
Um, something that's different and when you do it on mass, very consistent, there's um. Another Salesforce consulting group called, uh, CRM Science I think it is. And they always show up wearing lab coats. Right? Um, a little gimmicky, but you remember it, right? Yeah. Um, for, for carabiner it was always the carabiners, right?
It's got our name on it, it's act, our name's actually what it is. Um, and we've probably given away like, I don't know. 10,000 of these things over the last five years. Crazy. So, um, yeah. I mean, people have them on their leashes to walk their chain dogs [00:31:00] or Yeah. Or key chains, or my wife uses it to attach one of the kids' water bottles to a backpack, you know?
Toni: Yeah.
Cliff: Um, they're, they're handy. Then you see it so it's not a tchotchke that someone's gonna throw in the trash the second they get back to their hotel room kind of thing. I dunno. There's thoughtful ways to do things.
Toni: Wonderful. Is there anything else on this topic that you would like to add? I've kind of one other kind of connected question, but um, anything on the hole, in person thing, you know, story where you like.
Okay. This makes this whole thing work out for me, or ways kind of saw the light or way you had doubts or something like this. Any, any story you have that you wanna share? I
The Power of Personal Branding
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Cliff: really think it, it boils down to the way you show up. Be curious, ask questions. Don't sell. Tell your salespeople not to sell. Build relationships because your personal brand, the way people perceive you, the way that you're remembered, will outlast your time at any one company.
If you're building something for a [00:32:00] career, not for a job.
Toni: So let's round that topic up here. And then I teased it little in the beginning. And I think at that point you and I each had at least one beer already. Um, but I asked.
Comparing Rev Ops Events
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Toni: I'm not sure how the topic actually came up, but someone was like, Hey, what's the difference between the, um, the rev op, so it was a revenue operations kind of meetup.
So we went Berlin, the rev op co-op meetup in Berlin, and I think I was comparing it to the ones in New Orleans. Um, and I asked you kind of what separates those two events. What, what was your, what was your reply there?
Cliff: Yeah, and I think the Berlin went a little bit different 'cause it was very small.
Comparatively speaking, uh, fun nonetheless, and I think a good crowd, uh, but for the Rev ops community in your business, a bit smaller than that in the States. But I think the big difference, um, when you show up to a conference that's very rev ops focused, like a rev ops af, is that you're not being sold to, right?
Everyone that's there is genuinely curious and trying to figure out how to [00:33:00] do something better. Um, it was very interesting that. There's what, 350 some odd people in New Orleans, and there was like five that were obviously trying to sell to people, and it felt very different from every other conversation that you walked into, which was, oh, tell me what you're doing.
What are you building? How are you building it? Like, oh, okay, I've got this idea. I've done it that way. Like I felt like there was so much more learning and sharing of knowledge. Um. Versus a lot of the sales conferences or go to market web conferences that I go to where it almost feels like you're listening to people pitching you on stage.
Toni: Yeah. You also mentioned something else, maybe you don't wanna say that, but, uh, you mentioned another difference between the two. I, I don't know if I remember, it's, let me, let me, let me help you a little bit. You were talking about that in New Orleans, the conversation was a lot more strategic. Like why? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure. Doing these things. Yeah. Um, in comparison to what [00:34:00] happened in Berlin,
Cliff: which is very t very tactical. Yeah. The actual execution of things. I think that's a difference in the level of maturity in the market and the level of the attendees. A lot more of the folks in New Orleans were director and VP level, and some of them at larger companies, um, versus what we saw in Berlin where.
Most people, there are either a rev ops team of one or two, unless you are a persona and you bring 25 people right to the conference. Uh, so very, but very different where they're so focused on that tactical because that's their day. They're trying to get to the strategic, but they feel so overwhelmed with all the day-to-day stuff.
They're trying to figure out how to get through that in order to even get a chance to come up here. Where in the states, you typically have a slightly larger team or a larger budget because the funding rounds are slightly larger, right? [00:35:00] Uh, there's, there's a lot that goes into that that isn't necessarily, uh, a regional thing.
I think, uh, based off of. Uh, company size, it's based off of seniority.
Toni: No, exactly. It's, it's no one's fault necessarily. But I think it's, it's good to keep in mind that especially the European community still has, you know, ways to grow, um, in the right direction yet. And I think this might also help some of the s and founders listening to understand why people on LinkedIn in general are so jazz up about revenue operations.
Um, and seeing all the benefits of it, and then they're in their own organization and then they see something else happening potentially. Right. Kind of. And that difference can also simply be, uh, because the experience of the force multiplier, uh, you know, impact that revels can have, um, is, is maybe also just, you know, currently different.
Right. But maybe let's end on [00:36:00] that note Cliff. Yeah. Thanks so much for jumping on, talking about. Um, we did this. You, you, I think your crazy in person approach and how beneficial it is. And let's see, let's see if people can learn from that, adapt this maybe into their own way of, of working and uh, and hopefully grow their companies.
Cool.
Cliff: Yeah, and if anyone ever has questions, feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn. We can always chat.
Toni: There you go. Cliff. Thanks a bunch.
Cliff: Thanks Tony.
Next Week: What You Need to Know About Consultants
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Toni: Next week, Raul, I are zooming in on consultants, when to bring them in, when to avoid them, and much more importantly, how to separate the great ones from the Grifters.
It's subscribe if you don't wanna miss it,
Raul: if LeBron James and Tiger Woods and Christianna Ronald are better with a coach than without. You're probably two.
Toni: You will have then operators that you know, know a bunch of things really well, but have to stay abroad to a large degree. And then once in a while, there will be a thing that requires deep understanding of a single issue.
It doesn't make sense [00:37:00] to hire that person in full time,
Raul: stay away from the hammer people. They will have. Very clear, very repeatable answers that are just not necessarily addressing the problem, and most of all, very simplistic answers to quite complex problems.
Toni: I think consulting is a lot of selling, selling of ideas, selling of views, selling of, you know, change and stuff, but it is an actual skill in itself.