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We talk to the people that make the gaming industry happen, past & present. From casual players to industry CEOs. Gaming for the Culture is for the people by the people. Gaming mobile to VR!
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Welcome to another episode
of Gaming for the Culture.
I am your hostess with Theosis Jena Venet.
And today we have another banger.
When Is Not a Banger.
I'll let y'all know in secret,
I'll wink, even though technically
you can't see me, Spotify, um, and
Apple Music and stuff like that.
But I think I'm gonna have
a great conversation today.
And that's what I think
with everyone though.
We were just saying that.
So maybe I'm biased, but we're gonna
have a really good conversation today.
I'm really excited to talk with further.
This is literally our first time
like speaking with each other.
And we talked a little bit before
the recording, but now we get to
talk about stuff more in depth.
I know we were both holding back and
like being quiet and being like, wait,
that's like really good podcast stuff.
Um, so we have an amazing streamer,
11 years streaming, right?
11 years streaming.
Stream educator, uh, just I think
a great personality in general.
And I just wanna introduce you to Loko.
Loko.
Can you introduce yourself to the people?
And whatever I've missed, please share.
Yeah, Janae, thank you
so much for having me.
Um, I'm Loko.
I have been a content creator for almost
11 years now, um, which I think is,
makes me an elder in this, uh, industry.
I, you know, initially was a full-time
gaming content creator and then
pivoted to doing educational content.
So I help other creators, streamers
learn how to grow and be successful.
I talk about the latest platform
news and the industry as a whole.
Um, and I started my own company,
streamer Square, to really help
creators take things to the next level
where we do courses and seminars.
Recently, uh, last year actually,
uh, almost to the date I, uh,
joined a company called River.
Uh, it's a startup that aims to help
creators find their best moments across
their long form content, uh, so that
they can make more clips and grow.
So I'm head of product over there.
Um, I am not a robot, even
though it may seem that way with
all of the things that I do.
Longest intro ever.
I love it though.
Yeah.
I mean, you could be a robot
if you really wanted to.
Like, if you put your mind to it,
you know, I might need less sleep to
function, honestly.
Yeah, maybe we'll think about it.
We'll think about it.
We'll see.
We'll see what the possibilities are.
Yeah, that's a lot.
That is a lot of stuff that you do.
But my favorite thing is that
none of it is random, right?
Like, you're not like, oh
yeah, I talk about like.
Streaming stuff, but I'm also
like a financial advisor.
And, um, I say that because there are a
lot of people who are in the space, but
they do something completely different.
And so you are someone
who started streaming.
You came in at the time
of Gamergate, right?
Maybe just a little bit afterwards,
since you started streaming in 2014.
And I said that I, I also started
streaming in 2014 and my setup was
the Xbox One and the Connect, because
that time, that was peak technology.
Now you can't even find an Xbox One,
Xbox One, nor Connect, nor nor an
Xbox that really supports connect.
I think they literally like just
stopped supporting Connect and
we are in, uh, February, 2025.
Like, I think they, they
just stopped supporting it.
So what was your setup
when you first started?
Yeah, I mean, you know,
speaking of relics, um, I
started streaming on a laptop.
I had.
An iPad as my chat.
Um, I had a headset mic
that was falling apart.
Um, you know, that I got away with,
you know, the, I was still in my
college like apartment at the time.
I had just graduated college, um, and
was like a shy little, you know, person,
you know, starting streaming and just
wanting to game with a community.
And, um, you know, things
obviously have evolved over the,
the last decade of doing this.
Um, and not only for myself, but
really for the industry as a whole.
Um, which, you know, I'm excited to get
into, but I, I won't get ahead there.
Yeah, I, I actually think that's
a pretty good setup because.
Let me, I, I don't know if you ever
got a chance to stream on a Xbox, like,
I'm not sure what your first console
was, uh, when it came to streaming,
or if you've just been strictly
PC because you were on a laptop.
Um, but honestly thinking at that
point, I'm not sure what laptop
could have done that plus a
capture card, uh, plus a console.
You're like, no.
Like it could, could never.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I mean, you know, I,
so I've been a lifelong gamer.
Um, and I, I actually find it interesting
that people get into gaming with
streaming like together at the same time.
I think that's really cool.
And I think maybe streaming and Twitch
has really played a part of like,
making gaming more accessible and
like open and just kind of like, I
don't know, getting people into it.
Um, so, you know, I've, I've, I've
had the Xboxes and the PlayStations,
um, but yeah, I never actually
streamed directly from them.
I didn't, I didn't even find
Twitch until, you know, uh,
uh, 2014, end of 2013 actually.
And, uh, you know, just using
whatever I had to, I didn't, I
didn't think anything of it really.
I wasn't trying to do anything,
you know, back then it wasn't
a job, it wasn't a career.
Surely, like for people, it was
just like, I wanted a community
of people to hang out with me.
I had friends and I wanted them to
watch me while I, you know, played
games and hung out with them.
And that's really how
it all started for me.
I did it a little bit similar as well.
I was just wanting to find some people.
Um, so really quickly, the funny
thing about streaming on a Xbox is,
you know, when Xbox introduced the
Connect, it had this feature of like,
Xbox turn on, Xbox turn off, and,
you know, being a good streamer, you
would read people's username out loud.
So some people's username
would be Xbox turnoff.
And when you're in the mo motion
of just being like, oh, I'm playing
a game because I would play things
like I dar or Evolve or, uh, Ray man
legends or, you know, something that
was just taking all of my brain, right?
Like I would be like, oh hi,
welcome to the stream, Xbox, turn
off and then my stream is over.
That's a good troll name.
Honestly, I gotta give props to the
trolls for that one because I could never
be upset with that.
Like, that was a really good,
like, that was really good.
Like it was good.
It was wholesome, right?
Like, um, that was the one downside
to streaming with, um, streaming on
an Xbox because if you didn't have
that feature turned off, like you
would literally closed midstream.
And I think they got me a couple times.
I think they got me a couple times
before I was like, I've learned, right?
Told me once.
Shame on you, fool me twice, golly.
Today.
Get it together.
So, um, I think that was
one of the funnier things.
And looking at the price, I, I wish I
had looked up the price for a capture
card in 2014, 'cause I can't imagine
how much it would have been Yeah.
For a capture card in 2014.
Um, because now they're, they're,
and I think this goes for a lot of
the streaming equipment, like I, so
2014 playing on an Xbox, you were
playing on a laptop, streaming on an
Xbox, you're streaming on a laptop.
And, um, I talked about some of
the games that I was playing.
What were some of the games you
were playing on your laptop?
Um, yeah, so the, the way I
found Twitch was it was the end.
It was like the end of.
My second to last semester of college
and it was finals were coming up and
naturally I wanted to procrastinate,
so I went to Steam and was like,
I'm gonna find a game to play.
And um, you know, there was at the time
Daisy and Rust, um, which is, you know,
so fascinating how popular Rust is today.
But at the time they were both like
super early access survival games.
And I was like, okay, well I can't get
both, so, you know, which one do I get?
And someone in one of the comments,
um, for one of the games wrote a review
and linked their twitch, and I click
on this and I see that like, people are
playing games and you can watch people.
And I was like, man, this
is like such a silly idea.
Like, who would watch people play games?
I mean, like, I, I, and I, and
I left and I, you know, I still
couldn't make the decision.
So I went back and I went and found
someone playing the games and.
Um, it didn't take me long to
find a streamer named Co Carnage.
Um, and, you know, he is, is
still a streamer today, is a
very community oriented streamer.
Um, and I got hooked and really
just became totally ingrained in
that community and that's kind of
what led me to inevitably streaming.
But anyways, yeah, so Daisy Russ, early
Access Survival Games, really into that.
Um, I'm always a fan of like
any sort of like sim games.
I'm a, I'm a sucker for those as well.
I just started being more into sim games,
like Supermarket together or like Power
Wash Simulator, like that's me, like.
There's
so many
good ones.
There's so many good ones.
And it's so, it's so fun because
like I know people do this
for work, but I don't, right.
I do this to unwind or like, I notice
if I'm having a rough day, I will pull
up supermarket together and play like
a day cycle because it's like if I
can get my brain going and if I can
figure out like, you know, my storage
problems and, and like expanding the
store and stuff like that, I'm gonna
be really productive the other times.
Um, on top of that, I was talking about
how I was approaching streaming and, you
know, you said that you were like looking
for a community which was like sane.
I had just moved, I graduated college
in 2013 and I moved from Illinois
to Colorado and I really didn't know
anybody and I remember really wanting
to just be around other gamers.
Um.
And I had graduated with like a broadcast
journalism degree because I've always
wanted to be in front of the camera.
I wanted to be on air talent.
Um, but I was, I just was not
getting those gigs like whatsoever.
And so I remember being like, okay, well,
I'm gonna stream, I'm gonna stream my
own like little news show where I just
like kind of picked topics to talk about.
And so that's how it happened.
And even now, if anyone scours my YouTube,
like you'll go back and I'm, I'm talking
about, um, some of the golly, I think
that's the stuff where, uh, there was
like a riot happening in like Baltimore.
Um, there was like some
political stuff going on.
And so I kind of used to play and
like talk about it a little bit
and maybe not have like this in
depth like report, but just be
like, Hey, this is what's going on.
And I transitioned from doing, um, like.
Not even local news, but I transitioned
from doing like that type of news
to gaming stuff to saying, Hey,
here's what's going on in gaming.
And then I started to make this,
uh, show called This Week in Gaming.
And then when Microsoft hired me,
they wanted me to turn it into like
this week in at like in Xbox, um,
and share it like Eter internally.
So some of the people who are more like.
Not Xbox focused, pretty much
could like, know what's going
on and be able to talk to it.
And so, um, that was kind of cool to see
the connection because I never thought
like that would happen, but to go on and
stream and to like find my community and
to, um, you know, just, I, I never got
into like other streamers very heavy.
Like I know everybody was like,
oh, Marky Pli, Marky Flyer.
Marky pli.
And I was like, oh yeah, it's funny.
But, you know, like tuning into it, like
I would tune into like The Simpsons or
something when there's a new episode
just didn't really happen that way.
So while I did look at it as an
opportunity to like continue to practice
my skills and further my skills, because
I've always wanted to be on G four, always
wanted to be on E three RIP, you know,
um, I just kind of took it that way.
So I, I was looking for this
to go somewhere, but could
I imagine how streaming is.
Now?
No, um, the practices were different.
There was definitely a formula, uh,
but the practices were a bit different.
And there has been an
evolution to the technology.
Uh, it's so funny because I saw
Justin TV a couple a weeks ago.
He's a DJ now.
He was at Finland.
He was in Finland DJing at, uh,
slush, I think, which is like a
startup, entrepreneur like conference.
Um, and I was like, well, where's
the most perfect place for?
And you know, he doesn't
go by that anymore.
But, um, I don't, I don't remember.
That's really cool.
What?
Yeah, I just, I thought I just took
a picture 'cause I was like front
row and I was like, this is so funny.
I was like this, like, so
like full circle, right?
Like full, just very
much like full circle.
Yeah.
Um,
I mean, so Justing, because like.
There's two things about
your story that's, I, I find
particularly fascinating.
The fact that you were doing just
chatting content before, that
was a thing, before that was even
actually really allowed on Twitch.
I think you might've been breaking
terms of service because at the time
you actually couldn't, you, like,
you had to be gaming while streaming.
Like you couldn't just sit there and talk.
It was actually like
part of the, the rules.
And, um, I also find it interesting
that like, you know, you, you
had intention when you started
creating content, when you became
a streamer, you started streaming.
You wanted to leverage this into
something that would get you
into broadcasting journalism.
Um, and I think like that's something
that I, I think a lot of people, a lot
of streamers maybe struggle with is
like coming into streaming with the what
is the right intention when you start
streaming or start being a creator.
Um, you know, and maybe one of
my hot takes is like, you can.
You can't come into streaming and
treat it like a business, and you
can, you can have career aspirations,
you can have financial aspirations,
you can wanna make money streaming.
That's okay.
You know, it really just comes down
to, you could also have fun while
you do that and as long as you're
being authentic about it, right?
Like, it doesn't really, it's okay to
have, you know, different intentions.
It doesn't have to be like,
oh, I, I'm gonna pretend that I
don't want this to be a thing.
When you actually do, I think creators
can like, kind of shoot themselves in the
foot when they, you know, kind of get a
little bit mixed up and you know, what is
the right intention to, to stream or not.
That reminds me of the jobs that people
were getting because they were streaming.
Like, where are you gonna become
the next CEO, maybe of your own
franchise, your own business?
Sure.
You know, but.
When people were streaming
and thinking about like, okay,
is this a means to an end?
I know a lot of people
became community managers.
A lot of people became social media
managers or even, um, not just content
creators for brands, but the person
like managing, like managing, um,
the streamers and stuff like that.
So that was kind of the ma those were
the main pipelines from streaming.
Like, okay, I wanna stream because
I wanna show them that one, I'm
really into this game, right?
Like two, you know, I can do this.
Here are my skills Three.
Like, I have that network, uh, because
it seems like is streaming, especially
I feel, I, I feel, I really feel this
and it's, it's interesting because
I've never written a piece on this,
but I feel very strongly about this.
During these designated months of like
February and like March and like June,
a lot of companies are looking for the
person who has like the biggest, um,
network, like, or the biggest following,
or like the biggest audience because
there is an unwillingness, and this isn't
just in streaming, this is just kind
of how the world works when it comes
to marketing to marginalized people.
They will try to find one
person and then be like, great.
Gotta catch 'em all.
You know, gotta catch 'em
all with this one person.
And so I think that was another thing
too, to be like, oh, this person has
like a lot of women following them,
they have a lot of like queer people,
L-G-B-T-Q people, they have a lot
of like bipoc people following them.
Like, this is a good person to put, um,
you know, on a pedestal for the next.
X amount of days or things like that.
So, uh, that's kind of
what it reminds me of.
Two is one, the pipelines and then,
um, one the pipelines, and two, the
opportunity to kind of be this, uh,
diversity and inclusion officer.
Before it was like really popular as well.
Uh, I know a lot of the streaming
events that I've been a part of has
definitely helped me with, you know,
um, make like business deals because it
kind of shows like what I'm capable of.
And like a lot of the
charity streams I would do.
I wasn't really like on a team and
I didn't really have like a backing.
I was just kind of like, okay, well,
you know, Janae's just asking you guys
for X amount of money and no, you don't
know me, but please give it to me.
And they were like, okay.
Like, you know, most of the
time they were like, okay.
I was talking about it earlier, how our
streaming journeys are so different,
even though we started at the same time.
And, you know, I had an idea of
what I wanted to do because that's
what I was going to school for.
That's what I went to school for.
And I've always been interested in
journalism, always been interested in
community, always been interested in
being like, on air talent and you know,
on top of that, like educating people
along the way and things like that.
And I think this is such a fruitful
conversation to see like the options of
what being a streamer can get you because
you, you are still in the space, you know?
Um, I'm in the space a little bit and I
don't wanna branch off too much because
there is an order of operations to this
podcast, but we might be jumping around
because we have a lot to talk about.
Um, I know it's,
it, it is really interesting.
Like, you know, I, it's like
for me, streaming when I
started, even though I had.
I had no intentions of
it doing, uh, anything.
I was going to go to school for,
become a physician assistant.
I did pre-med in college and, you
know, that was the direction I was
going in simply because I enjoyed
science and it made sense to do.
Um, when I started streaming, things
really took off really quickly
because I had spent months interacting
with people in other communities,
um, not knowing that this was
like an effective growth strategy.
It's something that I now, you know,
teach other folks to really think about as
like, embed yourself in other communities.
Um, because when you start, you'll
have friends, you'll have your first 20
viewers when you hit start streaming.
Um, so, you know, for me it
really just kind of spiraled.
In a, it snowballed in
an upward direction.
Um, I was partnered, a month later, I was
invited to a convention A month later.
I finally told my parents what
I've been doing this whole summer.
Uh, they had no idea because
I was like, you know, just not
really thinking of it as a thing.
Um, and you know, what I really
loved about being a content
creator is the entrepreneurship.
And, you know, before I started
streaming when I was even 12, 13
years old, I was making websites and
flipping them and doing online projects.
I was running Google AdWords
campaigns for my neighbor's company.
Um, you know, I've always kind of had
this like, I guess entrepreneurial
spirit and I really got to find
that they call it girl boss
these days.
The kids are calling it
this.
That was, that was me, you know, as,
as a little 12-year-old girl boss.
Um, and so, yeah, I think like
streaming kind of really had that
natural fit of doing what I wanna do.
And, you know, when you do
something for a long time.
I think inevitably you, you get burnt out.
I've been burnt out plenty of times,
and you start to look at what's next.
And um, you know, for me,
I started to think about my
future with being a streamer.
Did I wanna be 40 years old
and streaming and trying to
like, play games and stay hip?
And I was like, I don't, I don't
know if this is gonna work,
you know, in the long term.
Um, and so actually a year ago I
was offered a job at a, at a startup
river, um, to come on and drive
the, the creation of the product.
And, uh, wow.
I, a lot, I've learned a lot
in the last year about myself,
about how burnt out I was.
And I have completely changed my
relationship with being a content creator
where I'm still creating content, but not.
You know, in a way where I'm forced
to, that I have the pressure to
write all of the things that come
with me in a full-time creator.
I get to kind of reassess
those things and do it my way.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
You said, you said a lot, so I'm
gonna, I'm gonna say them in order
of quickness I have for them.
Yes.
Being a full-time content creator is
not that six, eight hour stream it,
so it's 12 hours to edit, to do this,
to do that, and to repurpose it, plus
the, plus the networking, plus the
being in other people's streams, and
I've realized that I like to help.
Not by views, but by like partnerships,
by, by like opportunities and giving.
Um, because I can't sit in
everybody's stream all day.
I would love to have six
different tabs open and unmute.
Right?
I would love to have six different
tabs open and unmute all day.
But I do also wanna engage with you guys.
But to me it's like, once I find out
the, the streamers and the people I,
I, I wanna be able to suggest them.
To different people that I work with.
So that's my favorite support.
Right.
Um, like I said, I was doing like a
little bit of coworking stream, but
because there was no pressure, like I
was literally streaming once a week,
but I was also getting work done.
Uh, it sucks to be an entrepreneur and
a streamer and not have those things
collide with each other because now I'm
doing a six to eight hour stream, right?
Because one, it is helping, like whatever
donations and things and payoffs that
I'm getting is helping, but also I have
to go, I have to create my workflows.
I have to, you know, create
my monthly content calendar.
I have to still like, you know, have
six different meetings with half of them
resulting in like an actual contract
or another deal or like something else.
And so, um.
Yeah, it is really a thing
and I don't know if I miss it.
I think when I have a game to play, I go
back and I'll stream it and it doesn't
matter how many people come through
because I have a game to play, you know,
and I'm not scouring like the internet or
like my inbox for the next game to play.
Uh, two.
That's really interesting that
you got partnered a month later.
That's really interesting because
this is another point of contention.
Like, I am really grateful to be having
this conversation and I cannot wait to
share this podcast with the people because
I think it's gonna be really encouraging.
And I think, you know, we've
come such a long way and I just
had a memory pop into my head.
It's really interesting that you got
partnered a month later after streaming,
how long you're streaming 2014.
And then you were, you
were partnered in 2014?
Yep.
That is bananas.
B-A-N-A-A-N-A-S?
No, it was a different time.
You know, like it, there was
a handful of creators, okay.
That like existed on the platform
and everyone knew each other.
You knew every creator on
Twitch and you all each other
didn't have that experience.
Really.
I
didn't
really,
I didn't have that experience at all.
So one, uh, when Discord came around,
I did start using Discord, right?
Um, but I think that's 20 17, 20 16.
So we're talking two years later.
So when Discord came around,
I did start using Discord.
I did start building because one.
You talk about seeing someone on
Twitch that you wanted to watch.
I didn't get that.
I didn't get that.
So then I was like, well,
I'm gonna be that person.
And that's how I started finding other
black women who also play video games,
which was the first time in my life
because I wasn't really into gaming.
Um, when I was younger, beyond
like my sisters and stuff
that we played out the house.
So to me, black women have always
gamed, uh, but then like going to
school and kind of seeing like even
some of the people that I was playing
with, they were into sports games,
but I wanted to play Assassin's Creed.
And so then that narrowed it down, you
know, there, there is definitely like.
A diagram of different
types of like gamers.
And then, you know, the more niche that
you get, um, you know, you're gonna
interact with like different people.
So one, I didn't really have anybody
I wanted to watch until the people who
came to watch me started streaming.
And then I was like,
oh, this is really cool.
And so then now we're watching
other black women play video games.
We're watching other women
play video games, and then
we're all playing together.
Right?
And then now, now that we can do it
multi streaming a different way now,
you know, we're, we're, we're multi
streaming together or like, we're all
playing it together and, and we're,
we're, we're doing like a let's play.
So I didn't have that experience and
I had been on Twitch very consistently
for, consistently for, uh, years.
Right?
Like, we're go and, and I, I
remember I started working.
With this company.
I started working with this company
and they had access to someone at
Twitch, and I was like, Hey, let
me just ask you some questions.
Um, you know, and I was like, we'll
use my page as an example, but like,
if people are trying to do X, Y, and
Z, this is when I was still in the
community and I was like, you know, how
can we get this information to people?
Because there had been, there had started
to be like this campaign for like, why
aren't black women being partnered?
You know, like, um, Ebonic Sims
came along and I know Munchkin Doom,
which came from Mixer and then,
you know, was at Twitch and then,
um, Facebook and things like that.
So there was like a
really big conversation.
And at that point these women were
absolutely putting up numbers.
Me, no, I wasn't really putting up
numbers like that, you know, but I
also don't know how long they've been
streaming, but they just had the good
con, especially like the Sims content.
Oh man.
People are eating that up
and like doing the mods.
And so here I am talking to this person.
From Twitch, and he was
like, are you partnered?
And I was like, no.
Like I literally was like, no.
Like why would I, why
would I be partnered?
And he's like, no, you definitely should
have been partnered a long time ago.
And I was like, are you kidding me?
I was like, are you kidding me?
Because I didn't even have
like a thousand people.
Right.
You know, there started to be
like rules and guidelines into it.
I didn't hit a thousand people on Twitch
until it has to be four years ago maybe.
I started hitting a thousand
people because one, I started
being involved in everybody else's
community and I kind of was like.
If I'm not gonna be part, like why am
I gonna give you guys so many hours
and I'm not gonna be partnered and
like, whoever you're looking for.
And then on top of that, there was that
campaign of like, oh, you know, more black
women are like on here and we feel like
we are not getting like the views and not
even the views because people, we knew who
was gonna come through the streams, but
we weren't getting the recognition or, um,
something earlier that you said of like,
you know, putting on the same people.
Like that's really, I have ne
I have never heard that before.
Like, I have never heard that before,
you know, and so I just wanted to
bring that up because that's different.
And I, I didn't even know that that was
like possible until you just said that.
So like, with your experience and then
what I just said, like what would, I
dunno, like what's your reaction to that?
Like, not trying to.
What do you think about what I said?
Because you surprised me.
That was, that was new information.
So, and have you heard about this?
Like, did you know that was, um,
happening, like on the platform?
And, and no, you're
not Mrs. Twitch, right?
Like, you don't speak for Twitch,
like, we're not making you their
spokesperson, but just asking from your
perspective and your experience as a
partner streamer for the past 11 year.
I, I really didn't know that.
I'm shocked.
I'm gonna be quiet now,
so, yeah.
I mean, I, I don't know, like looking
back in 2014, I don't remember that
like being, like that happening
or that being talked about really.
Um, uh, for me personally, it was,
I was in playing the survival games.
I was bouncing around full-time variety.
The new game comes out,
I'm playing the thing.
Um, Daisy was really the game
that like grew a lot for me.
I was getting over a hundred plus
viewers, um, and people were sticky.
People were a lot stickier
than they are now.
Um, and you know, that was, there was
a time where, you know, Twitch was
finally relaxing on their, their, you
know, uh, requirements for partnership.
Um, and actually when I
applied, I got rejected.
Um, and they said, you know,
whatever you think this is a mistake,
you can like, reply whatever.
And so I did and I wrote, like, I wrote
a resume and I listed all the things
that I had done and accomplished.
I had raised money for St. Jude.
I had been invited to a convention.
I'd done this and that.
Um, and just kind of outlining what
I wanted to do with partnership,
what this was gonna do for me.
Um, and so this is some of the advice I
give creators when they apply is like,
you know, just outline your accolades
and talk about what you're gonna do,
um, you know, with what, what the,
what does it actually mean for you?
Um, but I think like looking back, um,
you know, there was, there was not great,
you know, representation on the platform.
Um, yes, the platform was smaller.
Um, you know, maybe they didn't have the
right systems in place, but also I think
like really it wasn't a fo a focal point.
Um, that's true.
I think that really came to light in
2020 when we had not only a across the
US and the world, like paying attention
to the Black Lives Matter movement,
but also just within Twitch itself.
And, you know, the call for, uh, a Twitch
blackout and really paying attention to,
uh, the, the lack of, um, opportunities.
I think, um, you know, especially
for black women, you know, the
lack of representation at the top.
Um, it's, it's apparent, it's in
the numbers, like you can see it.
So, you know, I definitely think
like there's, there probably were
opportunities that you were not given
that you should have been given.
And I think, you know, things
have definitely improved.
I know Twitch has, now, we have
Unity Guilds, we have the Twitch
Black Guild, the Women's Guild,
the Pride Guild, which is great.
It gives a lot of opportunities
to diverse groups.
And I, and I, I love that.
I think it's a really good
thing that Twitch is doing.
Um, you know, but that
was, that's 10 years later.
It's a, a little bit late to,
you know, start, start actually
making these opportunities happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, um, hmm.
Yeah, it's very, it's
it, that's true, right?
That there wasn't, because some of
the newer technology that Twitch
added was like I was streaming.
Before you could put like, oh,
you know, closed captions, right?
Because now they have tags.
I don't even know if people remember that.
Oh my gosh.
So twist always have tags to
be like, oh, this is who I am.
You know?
Or this is like a safe space for
you to come and just like be this.
Right.
Uh, but with great power becomes
great, comes great responsibility
because now people are looking
for those tags to troll under.
Right?
And even using things like hashtags, like
I was on the stream team for like black
girl gamers and like helping like find
other streamers and things like that.
And so I know that you, you could
start making a list of people, right?
Like your stream team.
Like you could make like a list
of people or when you were able
to start like hosting people.
Ugh.
I,
that's so funny.
All the knowledge that you realize
you have when you like, start really
getting down to the nitty gritty.
But, you know, all these things
that were added to be more unified,
uh, were added like way later.
Like yeah, like
post Amazon acquisition, you know,
there was discovery on Twitch in
2014 was you find a game and it's the
most viewers, if you have the most
viewers, you're gonna get more viewers.
You know, and it was, it was a kingmaker
approach and you know, still very much
is like that today, but Twitch has done
a lot to really improve discovery, to
make it easy to find people that you're
looking for, that people that look like
you, people that you wanna watch, um,
communities that you wanna be a part of.
I think it's definitely,
it's definitely improved.
Um, you know, I think there's also
just, um, like stars that have come
out, like Kais at and what he's done.
I think it's been really remarkable
and groundbreaking for, for streaming
and for what being a streamer actually
could be, you know, at that level.
Um, so, you know, I think that
things have definitely improved.
Um, I think Twitch has
made discovery better.
Um, and you know, it's a double-edged
sword because the platform has
grown and it is saturated and
people are struggling to be seen.
Um, and so, you know, Twitch has
to figure out the best way to
help a viewer find the community.
They're looking for that so
that they stick around and, you
know, that helps everyone grow.
Yeah.
Uh, I, I started to, because partner
seemed like so far off right,
until years later when I had that
conversation with someone at Twitch,
I started to be an advocate for what
you could do outside of partnering.
Right.
And then Restream came out and it's like.
Stream on all these platforms.
And then Twitch was like, no,
our content's our content.
You guys can stream somewhere
else but not simultaneously.
You know, or that would,
they finally figured
that one out, didn't they?
Now you can stream wherever, and they
realize maybe it's not such a bad thing.
Yeah,
yeah.
I, you know, I get it.
They were like, Hey, we are actually top
dogs, so you need to figure that out.
And it was like, oh, I have
to have loyalty to someone
who, you know what I mean?
Like, if you really read through the,
um, affiliate terms and conditions,
is it really like, is it really
for, like, is this really for me?
You know?
So, uh, yeah.
I started to be on an unspoken campaign of
the things that you could do without being
partnered because Twitch flew me out for
TwitchCon, like, and paid for everything.
And so I kind of was like, well, if
I'm already getting all this stuff, do
I really need to try to stress myself?
Like it would look nice, right?
That because at a time.
In the gaming industry where people
are getting jobs off of clout, right?
Like, and, and we're not talking
about a specific type of clout, we're
just talking about clout in general.
Clout helps you get seen, it
helps you, you know, it could
work in your favor for sure.
So at a time where people are
getting jobs off of clout, I was
like, dang, I kind of need that.
I was like, Hey, I kind of need that.
I kind of need that.
Like, yeah, I'm partner.
Because it meant something like,
and now kind of like, you know,
there was another, there was another
campaign push, um, on Twitter.
Twitter at the time where, uh, once
again, there was a bunch of black women
who didn't have a blue check, right?
And then one day they woke
up and one after another.
Blue check, blue check, blue check,
blue check, blue check, like, right.
And so that, that's just kind
of like mirroring kind of
what happened over on Twitch.
I still don't have a blue check,
but now I'm kind of like, I'm okay
with that because now people are
like paying for that blue check.
So something, yeah.
If you wanna pay
$8, you could get one.
You know, and it's not that serious.
I know I'm, I'm me, right?
I don't think I have a, a
iRobot account or anything.
But, um, you know, at a time where like
that meant something even though no one
could really say what it meant, right?
Like these checks were important,
like these verifications were really
important and whatever it did, it just
sweetened the deal for whoever you
were talking to to be like, oh yeah,
well, you know, this person's about
what they say that they're about.
And so.
That was one of the reasons that I
wanted to, but all of the work that I'd
started putting in, being able to be
like, you know, at TwitchCon or be like,
you know, it opened up doors to be able
to, um, go to a lot of places without
having to have my community funded or
without funding it for like myself.
And then to say that I've worked
with this person and that I've gotten
with this company and, you know, all
without having even one K on Twitch,
you know, being able to work with
like Corsair, Logitech, like different
types of, um, organizations like that.
And so to come back to being like,
our journeys are very much so
different but still able, you know,
you can get what you want out of it.
Me being a journalist and keeping
my journalistic integrity this whole
time, I think also helped with it.
You know?
And then I feel like you started looking
at streaming as a business, right?
You started looking at like how you could
do it and that if it was gonna take off,
like what's the best way to approach it?
And then you've been able to
also, um, you've been able to
also make waves in that sense.
And so I think, I think it's
great that we could like kind of
share, uh, side by side, because I
haven't had like another streamer.
Streamer, like.
On here.
Let me recap and make sure I'm not lying.
But yeah, I haven't really had like
another, uh, streamer on here and
someone who, you know, I, I don't wanna
say out of the trenches, but you know
what I mean, like, you're not like, oh,
can we wrap this up because my social
battery, I gotta have it for later,
you know, to, to deal with whatever
that stream is gonna throw at me.
So, um, that's really cool.
And you were talking about it.
So we did, our paths did cross in 2020
when people were starting to look at
more inclusiveness, um, into the gaming
industry, I think in a lot of industries.
But because we're in the gaming
industry, we're going to be able
to experience that some more.
And we were talking a little bit about it
earlier, so we were talking about there
was some simultaneous actions happening.
So during I, June I think
is when, um, George Floyd.
Did get murdered.
And then there was another uptick
of, uh, black Lives Matter because
it kind of started when I was
in college with Trayvon Martin.
And there like the, I just remember
that there was just some things that
were happening back to back where there
was like Trayvon Martin and then there
just started to be more and more, um,
innocent black people being murdered.
So a lot of people were,
sorry, trigger warning.
I, sorry.
Uh, trigger warning.
Did that before.
But, um, you know, so there was a little
bit of, uh, more eyes, just more people
having the space to be more open to, um.
Black content creators, black artists
black, just whatever the case is.
And so I remember that, and I'm not
really sure how you found me, but I
remember that, um, you asked me and
another content creator to do a, um,
like a quick show just to talk about
like black content creators in general.
So one, I guess I should
ask, like, how'd you find me?
Because I don't think I ever asked that.
Um, and God, I don't even know, remember
at the time, like that was five years now.
It was
probably like, I probably just saw
something you were writing about or
something, or, um, uh, I think Red Inny
infamy was on Mixer and that was, there
was, the whole mixer was shutting down.
And there was also like, uh, allegations
about some, um, like, uh, I think
some of the employees, um, not like.
So something was going on that
was like potentially racially
motivated or something.
And um, I think Red Infamy was
streaming on Mixer at the time.
Um, but I, yeah, so I, I
don't remember exactly.
Yeah.
Um, but it was probably, probably one
of those things if I had to guess.
Yeah,
that makes sense.
So we did, do we, that was a plan
and then we actually never did it,
um, because both of us were like,
we're not gonna do anything that's
gonna make us feel uncomfortable or.
For the wrong reasons.
And that was our first time
actually being like, oh, okay,
now I know who a Loko is, right?
A loko.
Um, now I know who like a
Loko is and things like that.
And so I think that we kind of just
went on from there to just kind
of do our separate things until
today where we actually have a
chance to talk and like compare.
And to be honest with you, during
that conversation, this conversation
couldn't have been present.
Uh, there was a lot happening
at that time, and I remember.
Turning down things during that time,
because I did feel like, and it happened.
Don't get me, don't get me wrong.
Right.
Like, uh, and I don't, I don't know
if you've also experienced this during
like women's month where people are
like, oh my gosh, we need a woman.
You're like, come here, woman, come here.
You know?
Um, and this happens like every
February where it's like, oh, we,
we, we need more black people.
You know?
Or when A-A-A-P-I, uh, L-G-B-T-Q,
like anytime, it's like, oh right,
it's like two days before, oh
yeah, we should really do this.
And it's like, we know it's coming.
We know that you are going to like pop up.
And so it's like one, you know,
for everything to, that had
already been like transpiring.
And then a lot of people were like, oh,
you have a community or Your name keeps
popping up whenever I tie, especially
because I was a part of Black girl gamers.
So when you type in black girl gamers,
like on Twitter, because you know, at
that point, like we, we should talk
about the, what Twitter is, what LinkedIn
was trying to be at that time, where
people would look for people, you know,
and be able to get like a sense of
them and then be like, oh, these are
the people that we wanna work with.
Like, because I had like black girl
gamers, like admin or something, right?
And then I had like, oh, here are these
bylines that I wrote and here, like
as seen on dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
Like, how many ever characters, you
know, it would let you, um, I get
that like sometimes it's like, oh,
you know, let's in, in like flood
this person with these things.
And then it's like, yeah, but it's
not really, it's not really like
a working relationship, right?
Like.
You want to signal boost.
And I think, you know, it's a difficult
thing because it's, as a black woman
who was a con, is a content creator,
was like a more avid streamer.
It was kind of difficult because here I
am constantly going back to 2014 Janae and
my comments, my chats being flooded with,
I haven't seen any black women streaming.
And here you are.
Like, that's how, because I
wasn't playing anything popular.
You know, I, I never fully fell
into the trap of buying that $60
game that day, you know what I mean?
Like, I was always looking at indies.
Um, and so it's like you weren't
ever really checking for this
game, you know what I mean?
And you weren't ever
really looking for me.
So it's like I'm getting an influx
of stuff and it's like, how can I.
Do this and make it work for the
good of stepping forward, right?
To make it like a step forward.
Or do I have to say no because
something's gonna misinterpret it.
And you know, as we talk about social
media and streaming and what it's
become and just the, uh, social
public court that it's become of like,
damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Right?
Like, okay, if you do this, it's like,
oh, I did this and that for that.
And I don't need anybody to
be like a stand of me, right?
I don't need Jana can ever do any wrong.
Please don't do that.
Please don't do that.
Um, you know, because
I don't even do that.
Ask my number one fan as my
biggest fan, I'd be like, oh wait,
that might've been messed up.
Um, you know, it's a difficult
process just to kind of go through.
And so like during that time it
was like, oh my gosh, here everyone
comes and they wanna do this.
And I'm not saying this is
particularly what happened.
With when we were supposed to talk,
I think it was just kind of like
a, hmm, this doesn't feel good and
I'm not fully sure what's going
on and I'm not gonna do this.
Um, which yeah, I don't, it's, it's
just a thing you have to navigate.
Like it's a thing you have to navigate
whether you are a marginalized streamer or
you know, a certain content creator, you
always have to think about, is this what
I want my brand to be associated with?
And, you know, does it do
more harm than it does good?
And I think being in that space around
that time where it had like a lot
of pressure, it was just easier to
like, not to not be wondering, um,
or concerned I guess with that, since
that was like our first time meeting.
But that was a lot of my first
time meeting a lot of people that
I literally don't talk to anymore.
Like even, um, people who were like.
Very forward at the time of like,
you know, feeling like it was
very progressive, but it was a
bit more form, uh, performative.
Like, I didn't hear from them, like
after they were able to like put me
on like this pedestal and spotlight
and be like, wow, we really care.
You know?
So, um, that's the thought process
behind like why sometimes these things
don't happen or, you know, what does
it look like on the other side when you
know, you know, the intentions that you
had and you know that, uh, because I
really didn't hear the full story right
till today when I was like, oh, I'm
like, I think something was going on.
But I definitely remember just the, the
heaviness of what was happening, like
outside the gaming industry and how,
how it was affecting everyone no matter
what they were doing at that time.
So,
yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, I think there's something
to be, there's a lot to say here,
actually, not something, um, you
know, I think the first thing is.
Like totally understanding your
perspective and being selective.
And I think like creators, you
know, we have, we're in Black
history month, we have Women's
History month coming up next month.
Being selective of the opportunities
you pick and, you know, not sucking
all your bandwidth away to, you
know, help a company look good.
You know, essentially is what it usually
boils down to is like, Hey, we wanna, we
wanna like, you know, look like we're,
we're supporting during this month.
Um, and you know, I think like also in
2020, during that time, like you said,
there was a lot going on and, you know,
if, if you don't have the bandwidth, if
someone doesn't have the bandwidth to come
on a show to, you know, you're getting an
influx opportunities, it's overwhelming.
You should, you know, you, you should
reserve your, your space, your energy for,
for what you can and what you wanna do.
And, um, so I totally understand,
like, yeah, not, not being like,
oh, I don't know this person.
They want me to come on a show.
Like, okay, but also, like, I don't
know, too many questions, right?
There's too much in the air.
Like, is, or are they like just
doing this because, or are they
trying to, you know, are they,
are they genuine about it or not?
Um, and I think like, you know, as we,
as time progresses, you know, we're
at a very interesting time five years
later where now there's an undoing,
public undoing of a lot of these.
Um, what now seem as performative measures
to, you know, uplift marginalized voices.
Um, and you know, I think it's even,
it's, it's been, it's always been
important, but I think it's like even
more important now to just remember
like, that wasn't just for three months.
That you were supposed to like, make
sure, like look out for your, your
counterparts to look out for, you know,
the voices that are not being heard and
make sure that they're in the room with
you, uh, to give them space to, to speak.
Um, you know, that's something
that I think it just becomes
more and more prevalent.
Um, and, you know, something that I've
personally always, um, been mindful
of as, as a woman, like, you know, I
know like, and not, not what you've
gone through, but I know like what
it's like to, um, feel lesser or to not
be given like the same opportunities.
And I always wanna make sure in
the forefront like that is every,
anything and everything that I can do.
I always kind of keep that in mind.
Um, if I'm asked to be on a show
or something, um, you know, I
try to make sure that, you know,
my, my friends are taken care of.
Um, so I think, like, I feel like
what you said, uh, really kind of.
It's sad.
It's, it's sad.
It's true, but it's sad that it's like,
these people I don't even talk to anymore.
Or, you know, they were just there
for a few months just to, you know,
they, they had a, a, they, they
put a little black avatar on their
lo on their profile picture and
thought they were doing something.
Um,
ooh.
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That's true.
And there very proud of it too.
You know?
And then, and then you just kind of,
you just have to like eat that, right?
Like you just, you have to eat
that because while it's annoying,
it's not the end of the world.
And there are, there are like
bigger fish to fry in that manner.
And you know, I, an example of that from
my end was all of the things that I would
do in like, lieu of being able to either
turn down the opportunities, right?
So that's when I started like really
ramping up with my charity streams.
And I didn't, I think I've, I've, I've.
Done a charity stream for St. Jude, maybe
like once or twice, but when I get the
opportunity to, I do it for something
local or I do it for something global.
Like, I created a t-shirt and I was
like, okay, you know, X amount of funds
go to like SARS or, um, this product, if
you, you can either give directly here
or like if you buy this, like the, uh,
like when I wasn't streaming, how could I
still give, you know, to this community?
And I think that was, is more important,
um, you know, than being able to be
like, Hey, like I was here, right?
Like, Hey, I, I was here
and I did this thing.
Like personally that's great, but also.
Personally, I'm an, I'm an activist
and I would put a lot of that into my
streaming and it, it was nice to be able
to do something for the cause, right?
It was nice to be able to be a part of it.
And like, even now, do I still have
to like, create a charity stream for
particular, um, for the same type of
organizations know, but I still get
to do it and I still wanna like, you
know, partner with people to do it
because there's so much to give and, uh,
there's so many people who are in need.
There's so many places to give and
so many people who are in need.
And so, um, yeah, you know
that I think that's just.
That's the cool part, uh,
about being a content creator
is that you can be yourself.
And I know there's a lot of things
that tell you to be someone else.
Like I was never the person to try to put
on full cosplay because that was a lot.
But somebody has the time to do that,
you know, and we applaud them like,
I've seen it, or, you know, make
their stream the cosplay, right?
Or yeah, make their cosplay the stream.
Um, so I think being authentic to yourself
definitely helps you to mitigate that
burnout because when you're trying to be
someone else, like that's really rough.
Like, yeah.
When I first started getting
subs, I was, um, hand painting
people's favorite characters on
like these very small canvases.
And Can I paint?
No.
Can I draw?
No, but you're welcome.
Like, I would literally be
like, what's your address?
Like, I'm sending you like
these little paint things.
And that was like a part of my
personal brand because, um, I love
arts and crafts and so it's like,
well, why don't I just like do this
thing for the people who support me?
And a cool part was that some of them were
local, so I could just like see them at
the next event and be like, here you go.
Thanks for supporting.
Um, but yeah, I do wanna
talk about some of these.
Practices that you have a
little bit more time or like,
uh, you want me to reveal the, the
insider secrets to being a creator?
Yes, of course.
So, yeah, but I wanna go
through it in a timeline, right?
I wanna go through 2014
to like 2020 to 2025.
Not exactly the same amount of, you
know, like years in between, but just
that gradual change in strategy, right?
So, um, but you pretty much said though,
like if you were playing at that point
and you had the most views, that was
a way to like grow your community as
well as talking in other communities.
That is how you grow your
community as well, so.
When people were watching,
just a speculation, right?
Because you just started then when
people were getting into Twitch then
do you think they were looking for
skill or do you think they were looking
for like, that just kind of laughs
because for me it was all laughs.
Like I don't, if you guys wanted
top-notch skills and like iar,
which was um, platform soccer, indie
game, you weren't gonna get it.
You were not gonna get it.
You know what I mean?
But laughs and jokes for sure.
Oh
yeah.
I was no skills here, honestly.
Uh, no.
I mean, like, I, I definitely was, was
you, I'm, I'm, uh, above average in
games, but really it was like a big
thing of my community to like, it, it
was, we really highlighted the fails,
what not to do in games, you know?
It was really all about the entertainment
and the community aspect of it, and.
Defining the most bizarre ways to
fail and, and die in video games.
Um, that was, that was
my bread and butter.
Yeah.
Um, I think that there's, there,
there was always an interest in,
in skilled, um, gameplay as well.
I think both of those
things have, have existed.
Um, you know, I, I actually, it's
kind of the way I divide, um, creators
is like, are you, are you skillful,
skillful or are you entertainment?
Um, you know, what kind of content
are you providing your audience?
And you can be both, right?
Um, but you know, I think, I think
really just kind of like understanding,
like you don't have to be the best
in games to succeed even today.
Um, you know, but you do have to be either
educational or entertaining in some way.
That is true.
And that's true for
content in general, right?
Like when I made my TikTok,
it was literally for me, did I
expect ever to anyone be like,
oh my gosh, this is hilarious.
No, I put it out because I thought
it was funny and I wanted to go
back and laugh at myself, and it's
doing exactly what I expect to do.
Um, so I think that's true in any content.
So from when I started streaming,
I started, I, I began to see
later on that people were
starting to do 24 hour streams.
I don't know how prevalent that was.
I know there were stream aons and like
sub Aons and all the aons going on.
Uh, but then I started seeing people
do like 24 hour streaming and I
was like, maybe it's time for me to
leave the game because I don't want
people to think I'm gonna do this.
I did start doing some challenges, right?
Like the cinnamon challenge or like, I
drank like a shot of hot sauce, like.
You know, things like that, but
that wasn't really that unsafe.
You know, it's one thing if I'm really
engaged in the game and I'm literally
playing for 12 hours, because we do that
sometimes as gamers, I think that's a very
natural reaction, you know, to be like,
oh man, like no, I really gotta finish
this, or I really gotta get through this.
I think, and I don't think anyone
should force themself to do that.
Like if you're just on and you're like,
one more game, one more game, like, you
know, I think that's how that happens.
But to see people starting to do it like
24 hours, I was like, oh, that's not safe.
I was like, oh, that's really not safe.
Like maybe they shouldn't do that.
What are some unsafe practices you've seen
since you started streaming that you would
like just not recommend, like whatsoever?
Or have you ever done a 24 hour stream or,
yeah, so 24 hour streams.
Um, I think.
When in the early days of Twitch, it
was almost a rite of passage to do one.
Okay.
You had to say that you've done one.
So I have done a 24 hour stream where
I was awake for the full 24 hours.
It was hell yeah.
Um, like I, I am not someone who
like really would stay up until
three, 4:00 AM playing video games.
Like, I go, I go to sleep, like I go
to sleep at 10:00 PM nowadays I go to
sleep, you know, like we talked about
before the show when the sun is down,
I go down, like it's dark, I sleep.
Um, so it was really hard.
Um, and I, uh, the last like few hours I
was, uh, getting like kind of sick, right?
'cause you're like, can't eat,
but your stomach feels weird.
I, yeah.
I can't handle it.
I did make it through, I did survive, felt
like crap and was like, okay, never again.
Um, nowadays I think it's
actually changed a little bit.
I think you see.
Subs more often.
Yeah.
But I think what people are
doing is they're going to bed
and they're running their stream.
Yeah.
And they're just running replays
or mini games or whatever.
They're, or they're people
drop TV shows, right?
Yeah.
They're,
or they're sleeping in the background.
Yeah.
And so I think like the, the, I'm
gonna stay awake for 24 hours or 32
hours or however long you can last.
I feel like act actually, maybe that's
like declined in place of, well this
is gonna be like a 200 hour stream,
but I am gonna sleep every night.
It's just the stream's
gonna be running 24 7.
Oh, okay.
That's good.
That's good.
I haven't heard that one yet, but like
I said, I'm not still deep into the
trenches of like streaming where, and
I, and I get it because the longer
you're up and, and with a lot of
things, the algorithm is gonna change
of how, like it suggests things.
But I get the reason why you're like,
if I'm on here they will see me.
Right?
You're like, if I stay, I can get like
the most engagement because they tell
you, oh, if you stream for two hours,
you're just getting started, right?
You really wanna stream for those
four hours to where they can push
out your stream notifications, you
know, people can kind of like come
through and see what you're doing.
And honestly, I once
again will be that rebel.
'cause I'm like, you guys are getting
an hour out of me today or an hour and a
half and I'm here because I love you guys.
Like, but that's really
all that I have for you.
So.
I'm really happy to hear that because I
just, I don't know, like people were just
doing some outlandish things like that.
That's probably the, the top one
because I'm like, oh, you will not
make it like you do so many of those.
You, you, you will not make it.
Maybe you shouldn't do that.
So, yeah,
I mean it, I would, I'd also add that,
um, there's been a rise in, um, I think
the rise of IRL streaming brought on
you dangers of like boxing yourself
or getting to dangerous situations.
Yeah.
Getting arrested.
Yeah.
Um, and also streaming while driving
Yeah.
Was
a big thing that, um,
is very controversial.
Um, like can you stream while you drive?
Oh, can, you can, but you can't look at
chat and like, what does that qualify
as looking at chat and, you know, people
are doing dangerous things while driving.
Um, and so that, I think.
You know, it, it's also this like
constant, like trying to one up someone
else, like going for the highest
number of subs or the longest stream
or, you know, this is where I think
it starts to get really dangerous.
I saw someone, um, I don't,
they weren't on Twitch.
They were on like YouTube.
They, they were trying to like stay
awake in like a closet for like, like, I
don't know, like the record or whatever
that record is like, uh, days, days
of not sleeping and being in like a
box and they were visibly unwell and
I was like, this has to be taken down.
Like, and yeah.
Cannot allow just to, to happen.
Like someone is going to die.
Yeah.
Get onscreen That me be the problem.
Don't get, I love
a Guinness
World
record.
I really do.
But like maybe for the amount of ping
pong balls you could hold in your mouth.
And even then with medical
attention standing by, like
not in your room, by yourself.
Yeah.
You know, I think it's safe
to say that clout chasing
has made people a bit unwell.
Um, you know, the adrenaline of like
being seen so many times and then the
validations of likes or seeing the
chat and, and like the subs, you know,
that dopamine, like it was all very
much so constructed to be addicted.
Not we talking about the
psychology of it, but,
you
know.
Yeah.
I mean like how else
do you get discovered?
Yeah.
How do you stand out these days
when everyone can create content?
I think TikTok really opened the
door for, you have a phone, you can
be a creator, you can just record.
It doesn't even have to
be edited or anything.
Yeah.
You know, like you just record things
and be a personality and so now
everyone is a creator, so how do you
become known and recogniz and Yeah.
How do you gain like
some sort of notoriety?
You gotta like, I don't know, endanger
yourself, I guess, to make a headline.
Oh yeah,
that's it.
That's really rough.
Um, that's really rough.
It's so funny because I think about the
people who like are streaming and then
like at some point they have like a family
or something and it's like, you know,
going back and kind of watching like some
of their VAs or stuff that they saved.
Um, that was a really big reason,
not because I'm like concerned I'm
gonna do something crazy on stream.
I'm sure I did, but I was a teacher
and an after and I had an afterschool
program centered around like gaming
and there was a coming in at Gamergate,
you know, it was like, well you
probably just shouldn't exist, right?
Like, you probably just shouldn't
even be a woman in gaming.
Like, don't let us catch you at a GameStop
because we're gonna ask you, you know,
the last five games of whomever, um,
you know, of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
And you know, when they first started
to make sure you're a real fan.
And I just remember thinking like.
I know what people are
saying are getting views.
I am pretty sure you were around,
oh, Twitch has a crazy history.
There was a point where people were just
doing like live porn on Twitter, on on, on
Twitter too, but like on Twitch, you know?
And I was like, I don't think
y'all supposed to do that one.
Y'all not marking y'all channels.
One.
You weren't supposed to do that.
Two, you guys are not
marking your channels.
Three.
There was no NSFW, it was just like,
oh, mature content for like, you
know, I'm gonna play Mortal Kombat
and you know, it's rated this for
the violence or something like that.
But people were just doing like
straight up, like, I'll never
forget, like seeing screenshots of
people opening like T Twitch and it
was just like suggested channels.
And I was like, okay.
I was like, I'm pretty sure,
like I'm really grateful that I
haven't had to experience that.
Um, but it was just like, I
didn't even know it was possible.
You know, you, you're like,
are people really seeing this?
And it's like, yeah.
So I understand what's going on on any,
anything that's accessible can have.
NSFW content, right?
Not safe for word content.
And so, because I knew that kids
are always gonna be curious, they'd
be like, what's your Snapchat?
You're like, do you want me to go to jail?
What do you mean?
What's my Snapchat?
Like?
I'm like, I'm giving you my Snapchat.
Like, no, you're not, you're
not even supposed be using that.
Like you're under 13.
Like you're and I even supposed to
be using this platform, let alone,
like, you're gonna be my friend.
No.
Um, you know, so knowing that kids
get curious and that they're gonna
look you up, and that my name was
just kind of easily searchable.
Um, as long as you knew
how to spell it, I guess.
I've been using the, the same name.
I was like, I really wanna make some,
you know, rated G content at worst, pg.
Right.
Well, e right.
Does that change when it's like Y seven to
E Anyways, that was just a random thought
in my head.
He is.
That's the video game.
Yeah.
Ratings and g And that's
the movie ratings.
I think that's the movie.
The, yeah, I think so.
I think so.
And then to just
unify
this, you know, make it more
straightforward for us because
what are we even talking about?
Like, um, but I really wanted
to make rated econ, right?
Um, being like, unless I was talking about
something serious that happened, like
I had to create a. Some content around,
uh, the person who shot up a Madden
tournament a couple years back, and that's
not very rated e but it's also like,
this is important for everyone to know.
Like, if this is what you're gonna
do, like maybe just be on the lookout
because that's not impossible for
things to happen, uh, wherever you are.
So it was just really important
to me, like as a teacher, that
I was able to make that content.
It's not like I wanted to be Miss Rachel.
It's not like I was like,
here's how you play.
But, you know, I would play things
from my childhood as well, like playing
spiral or playing like bug snacks.
And I was like, wow, that's an
introduction to like baby horror.
Like, your kid can play this, but, you
know, not necessarily going through,
um, not necessarily like diving
deep into like children content.
Like Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's not gonna be like, oh yeah.
I was the same
way when I started too.
Like, I wanted to make
family friendly content.
Yeah.
Um, because.
That was like the co car, like I
mentioned, I really looked up to him.
He cultivated a very friendly,
positive and safe community.
And I was like, okay, like
I'm gonna do that as well.
I'm not gonna swear on stream.
I, the games may be mature, but we're
gonna like keep the language clean.
Uh, and it actually really helped with
like, you know, not having a lot of
toxicity, um, because, you know, you, you
get to build your channel and your mods as
role models to how everyone's gonna act.
And you're not gonna have people coming
in and being like, oh, F you f this game.
Oh God, this game sucks.
Because, you know, people just have
generally a, a more friendlier mindset.
I think when you know, you, you as
your, the creator, as head of the
channel, like you're in charge of that,
you're directing that, that's true.
You have talked to community.
It's probably because of something
that you've done or that you're
allowing your mods to facilitate.
Usually.
I never really thought about that.
The correlation.
True that I know people can make it feel.
Like, you know, it's a safe
space, like family friendly, but
I never really thought about it.
Maybe it was just like in the
back of my head because I never
really thought about that.
Like, you know, some stuff
you don't let slide and you're
like, we're never doing that.
Um, because people would like curse
and chat, but like, I wouldn't
do it and I'd be like, whatever.
But it wasn't anything
like cor like egregiously.
Yeah.
Like, you know, um, you'd just be like,
oh, I mean, you can't police other people.
Like, you can't be like, don't.
Well, I mean, you could, you could,
but it's like, uh, but you know, like,
I don't, so do, do what you want.
Um.
But yeah, that was important to
me, uh, just to, you know, do that.
So that's really interesting to
hear because I don't think anybody
deliberately tries to, right.
Unless you're like, oh, I like,
people do deliberately try to make,
um, you know, content for kids.
But I don't think anyone tries
to be like super family friendly.
I think they're kind of just like,
oh, especially if they're not actively
planning out what they want to do.
If they're just like, oh, I'm just
playing, and whoever comes by, comes by.
But that was, that's also one of the
things that's been added to Twitch is like
the age range and, and stuff like that.
And so, um, yeah, it's,
it's a good thing though.
Swish has done a lot of good things.
They've done some
questionable things, but.
They're a company Whatcha
gonna do, they're a company.
Like what?
Yeah.
What are you gonna do about that?
Um,
yeah, I think like when it comes to,
you know, the direction of my channel
and like, yeah, I was a family friendly
gamer and that was pretty easy to do.
Um, and you know, I, I had parents who
had kids in the background or kids on
their lap watching, and that was fine.
And I think like it kind of moved away
from that terminology because when I
pivoted to doing more just chatting
content, um, which was, was an evolution
not only for me, but for Twitch as a
platform where, you know, when, when
we started you weren't even allowed.
You had to play games.
You were like forced you, you stream
on Twitch, you must play games.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, you weren't even allowed
to like, just sit and talk and not game.
And you know, now just chatting is
the most popular category on Twitch.
It's, it's massive.
Right.
And so as that grew into a thing.
You know, I started doing more
just chatting content where I was
like, oh, like whenever I start
my stream, I always warmed up and,
you know, would talk to Chad and
how are you get into random topics.
Usually it's food that I would get
into talking about and, you know, that
started to become hours of my stream.
You know, I'm streaming six
hours and almost half of it now.
I'm just, I've just talked.
Yeah.
And you know, when I started to do more
creator education, um, you know, it, I
just started to pivot more and more into
just chatting and now like I fully lean
into that where I stream once a week.
It's a three hour segment.
Uh, it's a, it's a talk show where I'm
talking about, you know, the latest
news in streaming, content creation,
tech games, you know, adjacent.
Um, and so being a family friendly
creator, it, I, who is that?
Who am I targeting at that point, right?
Yeah.
Like, do I, I still keep it
clean, um, for the most part.
But we also talk about really serious
topics, like we talk about politics,
we talk about the real world.
You know, we talk about like issues and
how I, how I really feel about things.
And I feel like being
family friendly is great.
Um, and it was easy for me
because it's like putting on a
professional hat and not swearing.
That's fine.
Um, and now I get to be more
lenient to my opinions and how I
feel and what I'm going through.
And it's more like an
authentic, this is me.
And like, if, if you don't have the
bandwidth for that today, I understand.
Yeah.
Um, but, you know, there is, I think
now more than ever a need for community
to come together and, you know, really
sometimes just talk about things sucking,
um, and just like kind of letting it vent.
It's kind of, it's maybe a little bit
therapeutic, uh, to like go on stream
and just like vent for three hours.
Um, but yeah, I think like when
you are building a community, it's
something you need to really keep
in mind is, you know, you're, you're
a leader and how you cultivate and
present yourself, that's how you're,
your community is gonna act as well.
Okay.
So,
uh, this is a great segue into
giving us some juicy premium tips.
As a content creator, people can often
struggle with what consistency looks like.
So I wanna start with that.
And then I also wanna hear some
things that you think are important,
you know, um, along with it.
So what would you say to someone
who's like, oh man, like, oh,
I'll be, I'll be the case study.
I'll be the case study, so I do
coworking streams, but obviously
that's not something I wanna
chop up and put on my YouTube.
I haven't uploaded on YouTube in
months, and I'm just like, oh my
gosh, not really, but I'm like, oh my
gosh, I could just do so much better.
And consistency is, you know,
right now the YouTube algorithm is
telling me post two to three times
a week and I gotta do a short and
I gotta do tags and I gotta do SEO.
And then not only do I have to
put it on YouTube, but so people
don't get bored with my content.
I have to repurpose it.
So now I have to put it on TikTok
and I have to put it on TikTok
and make sure it's not technically
the same video, but it is the
same video so I can do less work.
What would you say about that?
Like consistency, content creating,
and just the overall process of it.
And is consistency the same for everybody?
Is it, um, different?
Is it your own pace, or should
you force yourself to, you know,
um, upload to two to three times
a week even if you don't have it?
Yeah, I mean, so, you know, I,
like I said, I have many soap
boxes for these type of things.
Consistency is a interesting one
because when it comes to live streaming,
especially if you're trying to grow a
channel, consistency is very important.
Like if you want people to, if you
wanna grow, you need people to come
back and you need people to find you.
And if you're not streaming,
people are not gonna find you.
And if you don't stream consistently,
people are not gonna come back.
You know, it's like if you're just
streaming sporadically, it's gonna
be really hard for people to catch
you when you happen to be live.
If you're live 7:00 AM one day,
and then you're live three days
later at 8:00 PM you're probably
not even hitting the same audience.
So, you know, I think consistency
looks a, a lot of different ways.
I think really like kind of understanding
at the core of what you wanna do.
With what you're trying to do.
Like are you being consistent because
that's what you're supposed to do
and you're just trying to churn
everything out and grow every platform
and watch all the numbers go up?
Or do you have actual goals in mind?
Like, you're making a podcast, do you
need to post two to three times a week?
Does that even make sense to do?
Can you even keep that up?
I think it's worse to promise that you're
gonna have this schedule and not, and
fail on that than it is to say, you
know what, I, I work full time, I've
got other obligations, I have a family.
I'm going to school.
You're gonna get content
when I can make it.
And I think really kind of understanding
like what is within your bandwidth, as
we talked about earlier, like really
understanding what it is you wanna do,
what are your goals, and what are the
bite-sized steps that you can get there?
And also understanding
within the time constraints.
The bandwidth that you have, what
are the most important things to do?
I think a lot of people get
caught up in process and, you
know, you have to be consistent.
You have to post on all the channels,
you have to use all the platforms.
You have to make a Twitter post
without it thinking about why they're
doing it and what it's serving.
So just dialing back and thinking,
I wanna do this and I wanna grow
and I wanna do this for this reason.
And what are the easiest
wins that I can get?
What is the low hanging fruit that's
gonna, that's gonna help me succeed?
Um, if you can make one show a week
and repurpose that content, which is
something I talk a lot about, that's
a great way to, you know, you take one
long form video and you grab a, a clip,
you can post that clip on, you know, if
you wanna hit all the platforms, TikTok,
Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, you can
hit all those things with the same video.
Live streaming is another layer of,
that you stream for, for 3, 8, 4 hours.
Now you have, you have
some good content in there.
And if you don't, maybe think
about, like, again, go back to
like, why are you streaming?
What are you trying to get out of this?
And like, what, what
purpose are you serving?
Can you do anything with your
three, four hour time block to,
you know, think about how you
could use some of this for YouTube.
Maybe plan, plan some of your
content, plan some of your streams.
Um, you know, maybe that's a little bit
more of a, of a hot opinion of like,
actually, you know, think about what
you're, you're gonna do that day and how
that can play into the bigger picture.
Take your, your four hour stream, you
find like a 10 minute tutorial that
you carved out during that stream.
You knocked it out.
That's great for YouTube.
Take clips of that.
Post it on shorts.
Now with one piece of content, you
know, you're able to hit all your, your
different funnels without having to.
You know, record a separate video
for YouTube and stream, uh, and
record a TikTok, which is a different
type of content you're doing over
there, and also you're on Twitter.
All these different things that
really, I think, become more of
a distraction than, uh, actually
serving purpose to your goals.
Ooh, that was a good one.
Okay.
That was hard to be concise though.
It probably wasn't that concise.
But I tried my best.
This is,
this is why
my brain loco's, like this
could have been an hour long
conversation like this could be, uh, I
did warn you, I warned you about these
questions, the dangerous questions.
Okay, so another one.
People are always saying your niche, your
niche, your niche, your niche, your niche.
What are they talking about?
I just wanna play games.
I just wanna be funny.
I just wanna be everybody.
And their mom is a variety streamer.
I just wanna be a variety
streamer, for example.
I used to talk about haircare and I
used to do my hair on stream, and I
used to have like a product review.
So my niche was always natural hair gamer.
And so I always had something to like,
talk about when a game would release
and they would release like, um,
Afro hairstyles and things like that.
But like, what is just a need?
Like why do I need it?
Why am I striving for it?
Why am I stressing myself out?
What if I wanna rebrand?
What if I'm the person who wears,
um, pajamas and now I don't wanna
be a sleepy streamer anymore?
Like, you know, like, what's a niche?
Why are people, so, why is it so easy to
miss or easy to like, um, misinterpret,
like what you think it should be?
So the term variety streamer, um, it,
it definitely kills me inside when
someone's like, I'm a variety streamer.
It's.
You and millions of people are variety
streamers and like, that doesn't
actually tell me anything, you know?
Um, you could just say I'm a streamer
and that still wouldn't tell me anything.
It's the same thing.
Variety Streamer doesn't
really say anything.
Um, you know, I try to, I work on, I
help people with their elevator pitches
and um, you know, it's funny you ask
people, okay, what's your elevator pitch?
And they're like, well, yeah,
I'm a variety streamer and I've
been streaming since this time.
And I play games.
I'm like, okay, as great.
Wonderful.
You know, I try to get people to kind
of get, go a little bit deeper and, you
know, is there a certain like type of
game or genre that you lean into more?
What about your personality?
What aspects of your personality, um,
are, are defining to your channel?
And can you accentuate those?
You should be using more descriptive
language to describe your channel.
And if you can't figure out,
uh, a compelling elevator pitch,
they can tell someone that
like, is like, oh, this is like.
Coherent, it's concise
and also interesting.
If you can't do that, you
cannot market yourself.
You cannot grow your stream,
you can't appeal to an audience.
You know, really at the
core is your elevator pitch.
And that is, that is
nicheing and to something.
Um, it's having a content strategy.
It's knowing who your audience is
and trying to reach those people.
You will never make content
that appeals to everyone.
And so, you know, the value of, of,
we talked about defining yourself.
You know, you don't have to
do the most unique thing.
You don't have to be the
only one who does it.
You just have to go in a direction
that targets a specific set of people
in a, in some type of content that.
It gets them to watch or stream,
give you money, subscribe to you,
go watch your YouTube channel,
go consume all your content.
And if you're variety and you're making
game, you're making, you know, content
about, uh, call of Duty, and then
you're making content about the Sims
and then you're making content about,
uh, you know, some, some indie game,
you're all over the place and you're not
appealing to the same audience every time
you're appealing to different people.
The dream is that, you know,
you could stream and do whatever
you want and people will follow.
But that only works if you have loyal
fans and you only get loyal fans if
you attract an audience from, you
know, the surface, which is this
is the content that I'm providing.
Uh, this is a pur purposeful content.
It serves a purpose, it's
entertaining, it's educational,
and it is for these people.
And then those people will wanna
watch more like that, not more
like the total opposite of that.
Um, yeah.
So you gotta hit the, you gotta
hit like the, the, the top.
Of the funnel first, the widest part
of the funnel, which is like, okay,
I need to reach a lot of people.
That's short form content, and you
have to reach a certain type of
person to watch all of your content,
not just hop off with one, like
really cool playing Call of Duty.
And then 90% of your content is
not Call of Duty or not even a
shooter, not even in the right genre.
You're not gonna get those
people to convert as followers.
You're not gonna get them
to watch more of your stuff.
You know, I think it, there's a,
there's more discipline that is
needed to grow as a creator these
days than back then when I was just
playing every new game that came out.
Yeah.
And so you have to be more thoughtful.
You can still make content and play other
games if like, you know, you want to,
but understanding like if you wanna grow
and you have goals and you're trying
to become a full-time creator, you need
to kind of, you need to have structure.
You need to have like
a, a, a plan strategy.
And these different layers are so
important to save you potentially years
of just, you know, pulling your hair
out, just frustrated at not growing.
I think you, we talk about like
the dangers of content creation.
I think the mental part of that is, is,
is just as, uh, impactful really the
burnout and the, why am I not good enough?
Why am I not growing, why I've been
doing this for years and years and
I'm, I'm not get getting anywhere.
Um, you know, that really
takes a toll on people.
Um, so, you know, I think in terms
of niching, it's something that I
recommend creators, like kind of
understand like what they're doing and
why at the, at, at the very baseline.
That's good.
It's so funny when you were talking,
I remembered that literally when
I started my co streaming like a
couple months ago, I had some people
pop up and they were like, oh man.
I was like, why are you up so early?
And then they were like, I remember
that you stream really early.
And I was like, uh,
like, you know, it was just
really funny that they said that.
And I was like, yeah, that, that has
always been me to just stream like
six o'clock in the morning, right?
Like us time, like six six in
the morning or in the morning.
And then by that time in like
London, it would kind of be.
Almost like afternoon.
So people, I would get
like those two audiences.
And so anytime I would check
my stats, I'd be like, why am
I so popular in like Europe?
And it's like, 'cause you're,
you know, on their commutes home
or like something like that.
So, um, yeah, I agree.
It's important because I've always
been an indie game type of girly.
Um, I've always been an indie game.
People are like, whatcha are you playing?
Like, that's always the whatcha playing.
What is that?
Like that indie games and fighting games.
And so, um, and I think that helps
you to pitch yourself too, right?
Like, I got to work with a lot of
brands and I, like I said, you know,
I wasn't partnered and you know, even
when they started rolling out with
the affiliate, it took me a minute,
but that never really slowed me down.
I was able to pitch myself
because I'm like, I do indie
games, I do fighting games.
Um, you know, and I got some, uh, deals.
Like I got some, uh.
Partnerships with like hair products,
because I was talking about hair stuff.
And so they're like, oh, okay.
Like this is a way to get
seen so it can happen.
Um, the third and last one is
I'm going to ask you to give us
something that's very important.
Oh, wait, no, no, no, no, no.
That'll be the fourth one.
The third one is
Take a lot of order here.
Okay.
Janae.
So the third one is.
You know, like you said, it's,
it's harder to start streaming.
Like you can't just hop up and stream.
Like you have to have those content
pillars, kind of know who you are.
If you were starting a stream, I know
there are so many YouTube videos that
are like, how to get into Twitch in 2025.
And then there's always gonna forever
be, what is something that could
be some evergreen piece of, um,
advice to get started on a streaming
platform, even if it's not Twitch.
'cause what if Twitch goes to,
I don't know, cooking, right?
And now everyone has to cook all the time.
Like it'll no longer be
really relevant to gamers.
But, you know, with like TikTok live
and um, just so many, uh, things
that are popping up that are streamer
focused, what is, uh, some good
advice to get started and what is.
A co, uh, platform that
people could use, right?
So like, let's say we're in the
early days of Mixer and you like,
you know, it's like, oh, okay, well
if you use Mixer, then you should
also use like Instagram or YouTube.
Like, you know, like that
type of pairing together.
Yeah.
So I, you know, I think for the first
part, like what would I, what would
I do to get started streaming today?
I would say reference the previous
question because I think like, just kind
of understanding, uh, laying out your
goals for what you wanna do and picking
an angle to lean into is going to be
just really just, it's gonna provide
so much clarity and I think save you
from like, so much, uh, like pain down
the road where you're just like, you
can't really brute force this anymore.
You can't just stream like
12 hours a day and grow.
In fact.
A lot of the advice I give to streamers
is to cut back on their stream and
focus on other content creation aspects.
Um, I think YouTube in terms of like
a platform is really interesting.
'cause you have YouTube shorts, which
is, that's the 62nd bite-sized content
that anyone can watch on their phone.
And those videos get billions of views.
And that is how you're going
to get your reach, right?
That's how you cast your net out.
And hopefully some of those
people subscribe and hit
the like button and comment.
That's what you're hoping for.
Right.
And with YouTube you can, when
you post a short, you can actually
link that short to a video.
So if you posted a tutorial, right,
how to do this in this game and you
get like a 62nd version of that, people
are like, oh, that's interesting.
I wanna watch like the whole tutorial.
YouTube lets you like natively
link that together and you can
send people down into your videos.
That's great.
That's a funnel and it's connected.
And then with the live streaming,
although I would say, I would say as a
streamer, I would still stream on Twitch.
I would multistream to Twitch
and YouTube at the same time.
I think Twitch is the best
platform for community.
I think YouTube is the best,
best platform for growth.
Um, which is, you need growth to
get the com, the community, right?
So streaming on YouTube when you're
live and you've been posting shorts
and people are watching those,
you get a little indicator on your
channel like that you are live.
It's like a little live icon
on your, on your avatar.
And so if you're posting shorts and
you're live, people don't know that
They can come and watch, oh, well,
they posted a tutorial about this game
and now they're streaming that game.
I can go watch and ask questions
and go see what they're all about.
And so YouTube makes this funnel of
being a content creator totally within.
The platform itself.
And you know, YouTube
is a very big platform.
YouTube is 10 times the
platform, uh, twitches.
So if you're really looking to grow,
you have to hit all these different
layers of, of content creation.
And so the number one thing I tell
creators is like, repurpose your content.
Again, like I talked about with
the livestream, hit all of the
different layers of the funnel.
Um, I think YouTube is a
really, really great place to,
to have those pieces connect.
So if I was starting out,
that's what I would do.
I would, I would define what
I'm trying to do as a creator.
I would be deliberate about
what kind of content I'm making,
what purpose it's serving.
If I'm, if I wanna be a gamer,
like what games am I gonna play?
If I play this type of game, how
do I know that those people are
gonna watch the next game I play?
How do I ensure that the next choice
I make falls into that same audience?
Being deliberate about my
choices and then repurposing my
content so that I do short form.
'cause short form is the
way that you get your reach.
Now that you make that case for YouTube,
I can see, uh, TikTok being able to not
compete, but support that because I've
noticed that when people live stream on
TikTok, I see their video right now and
I have a friend he, after like being
on Twitch for so long, and then, uh,
having like a resurgence on TikTok,
he does use very interesting videos.
Um, um, let me not get his name right
because I know he changed his name.
Let me look at it real quick and
just say nostalgic, come on, pop up.
Um, nostalgic guy.
It's nostalgic black guy.
I'm in his discord, and I'm
not the TikTok name, sorry.
And then I don't wanna say your
real name, sorry about that.
But he makes these really
interesting videos on TikTok where
he go, Hey, I am streaming right
now, like, live on my channel.
And sure enough, there's
like a circle around it.
And so it's really cool how he
does that because it's like,
oh, he is streaming right now.
Like, let me go click on it.
And um, so yeah, I think, uh, TikTok
can support that, but obviously TikTok
is not the platform that YouTube
is and um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's really good.
I
think, uh, that makes sense.
Um, yeah.
Okay.
That's pretty clever, honestly,
like that YouTube is doing that
and um, I think TikTok is trying,
like they are trying to do that.
I think TikTok has like, definitely
its own quirks and also TikTok
is a big question mark whether
it's going to exist in the US and
how it exists in the US Exactly.
Um, so I think creating on
TikTok is fine and great and
definitely like worth hitting.
If you're already making the,
you're already making like a
vertical 62nd clip for YouTube, you
might as well post it on TikTok.
Right.
But I think, you know, in January a
lot of tiktoks got a wake up call.
Like yeah.
TikTok may not be around in a few months.
Um, and so diversify,
diversify your content.
It's very important.
Yeah.
Just don't overdo it where you're trying
to be everywhere and burn yourself out.
It's a really delicate balance of
like, don't put all your eggs in one
basket, but also like, you know, don't
put your eggs in all the baskets.
Yeah.
That a couple of good baskets, you
know, pick a few quality baskets that
you can really like pay attention to.
Yeah.
Maybe don't have so many eggs.
I don't know.
We don't know.
Yeah.
You know.
Um, but do you have anything with, with
all of the good stuff that you said, is
there anything that you wanna add to it?
Or you're like, oh, this,
like, very important component?
Hmm.
I feel like it gave like, the
really best, best pieces of advice.
Um, you know what, the, the last thing
I would say as a creator is like,
collaborate and find your people.
Find your community.
Don't try to be a creator by yourself.
Don't isolate yourself because
it's, it's, it's difficult.
Like Twitch even recognizes that
collaborations are beneficial.
They're actually helping with, uh, the
stream, new stream together tool where
you actually share your viewership
with people you collaborate with.
So I think Twitch is like really
making it apparent that it's much
more beneficial to collaborate
than it is to do things solo and.
Um, I think having people that you
can support each other with, help
each other, lift each other up.
Um, I think there's so many great
benefits to just Fighting com, a
community of similar creators that are
going through it, that are your same
size, the same type of content, and just
helping each other, working together
and not seeing each other's competition.
I think that's a really negative and
toxic mindset that, uh, is gonna, I, I, I
think is just more of like a negative, um,
experience in content creation in general.
I agree.
I think the best thing you could do
now is have two to three people in all
create content together, like, um, and
then hit different things, but, you know,
it doesn't work like that for everyone.
Uh, Loko, do you wanna tell the
people where they can find you
and you know, for what, for what
reason they would want to find you?
So if you're a content creator and um,
you want to learn more things about
the, the industry you wanna keep up, uh,
you're trying to grow, uh, you can find
me L-O-W-C-O pretty much everywhere.
Like I said, I do stream on Twitch, but
I do, I also post my content on YouTube.
Um, and I also run my
company Streamer Square.
So if you're looking for something
that's more personal, hands-on,
we do one-on-one consulting.
We also have a cohort program where
you can actually meet like-minded
creators, get feedback on your content,
you know, get personalized advice.
Um, and of course, you know, river
RI VR stream, if you do stream and
you're looking to find more clips
from your content so that you can
repurpose it, so you can grow on
YouTube and expand your reach.
That's exactly what we're building.
And, uh, would love to have
you try it and gimme feedback.
Um, go use it and, uh, you know,
just reach out if you're, you're a
creator and this has been helpful.
Do you have any exclusive you
wanna give us about any exclusives
you wanna give us about River?
Um, we, we actually are just
recently doing a, um, special
thing for creators who are dealing
with the Twitch highlight limits.
Uh, so Twitch is instituted 100
hours capped for the, the amount
of highlights that you can have on
your stream are on your channel.
What was it before?
Unlimited.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yeah.
Just, I just wanted to
double check my sources.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, so you, we have, there's a lot of
creators that have, uh, thousands of
hours of content and they're stressed.
So, wait, we're, yeah.
Yeah.
That's the whole thing on the highlighter.
Yeah.
Thousands of hours of video.
Okay.
That's,
oh, that's so annoying because I do,
yeah, you might wanna check that
because, uh, you have two months to get
under that limit or they will delete.
Your content for you.
They're so to help you get under
anyways, this was about River.
Yes.
So because Twitch is limiting highlights,
so what we're doing is because you
can't, when you're over the limit, you
actually can't make new highlights.
So for the next two months, if
you are streaming and trying to
highlight your content, you can't.
So we're trying to help with that
aspect where, um, if you reach out to
us, we will give you access to River.
I mean, you can still
try it, um, even today.
But reach out to us.
We'll try to help you with your
ongoing videos, um, because we
store video, let you access it
even if it gets deleted off Twitch.
And we let you make highlights and
clips from your content all in one.
So it's really, uh.
Something that the team and I put
together last week just to, we wanna
help creators and we saw an opportunity.
We, we do, we work with video
content as well and yeah.
You know, if there's something we can
do to alleviate some of the stress,
we can't store thousands of hours
of your highlights that you've done.
I don't even know
someone had 23,000 hours.
Oh my goodness.
23,000 hours of video.
I'm like, no one is
gonna host that for free.
Let's be honest.
No, that for free.
Yeah.
That's ridiculous.
But, um, but yeah, we're,
we're trying to help with that.
Cool.
Okay.
Well that is really cool because I've been
streaming for years and I remember when
the highlight tool came around to even go
back and go through streams that like I
wanted to save, you know, um, so they are
trifling for limiting it, but I get it.
There's so many people on Twitch.
And I know it costs money to host
that stuff and for one person to
have 20, 23 K, like, which I'd
never seen those numbers, you know?
Yeah.
When they were just starting.
So I get it, but, okay, cool.
Thank you for that exclusive,
I really appreciate it.
Uh, thank you for talking to me today.
This has been wonderful.
Like I said, it was gonna be right.
This has been another banger
and it was a great conversation.
It was insightful for me as well,
even someone who is not a streamer,
but still, I think I'll always
be a content creator at heart.
Like, I don't know if you lose it,
you know, like you're always like,
oh, this is really interesting,
or, um, whatever the case is.
So thank you.
I appreciate that.
Uh, 2014 Janae definitely
appreciates it and is excited.
You know, we're even to, we're even here
to have this conversation because there
was a time where like talking to other,
uh, women who were playing like streaming
video games was scarce, you know?
And definitely not at the level
that either of us have achieved in
the, in the longevity of streaming.
So, thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was a great conversation.
I'm glad that we actually had
an opportunity to talk and,
um, and share perspective here.
And I know.
A lot of soap boxes, but
um, but yeah, it's been fun.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
This has been another episode
of Gaming For the Culture.
We stream live on Patreon.
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We stream live on Patreon, so if you wanna
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Um, unless you guys want me to interview
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I will do that.
I, I will have no qualms
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It depends, right?
Um, but that's a new thing that I just
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You're welcome.
But, um, this has been really,
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Supporting the podcast and supporting
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I appreciate it.
If you're new, thank you so much
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If you want to learn any more
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EE slash janea Benet.
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But until next time, game safely.
Be nice to each other and
please wash your hands.
We're still in a world full of germs.
Just do it.
Okay?
Okay.
Bye.