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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
Coach Mills (00:00.984)
What's up guys and welcome to Clearcom's podcast. Today we're welcoming two special guests, Death in Gaming and Paz, to talk about a year of Marvel Rivals. It's been out for a year. What's up guys? Introduce yourself first, Paz. Tell the people who you are.
Paz (00:17.23)
Well yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me guys. I'm Paz. Some of you, if you don't know me, I do a lot of coaching content on YouTube and amongst like other discords and stuff. I'd say primarily I'm a support player, but I've been on a journey to try to learn every character in Rivals just because I feel like there's, it's one thing to kind of know what they do, but another thing to really understand like what they're trying to do. I feel like I've actually learned a lot that way, but I'm happy to talk about Rivals, what I've learned this year and get to know you guys a little better.
Coach Mills (00:45.614)
Yeah, I'm nice. Almost done with all the unranked GMs in the game. Almost every single one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's going back on the main account. then, then, and then, yeah, tell the people a little bit about you.
Paz (00:48.366)
Almost. The light at the end of the tunnel. We're almost done. I'm almost free. Yeah. Well, no, it's time to get one above all. We're going all in. I'm back on main.
Death And Gaming (00:49.33)
Dude, that's insane.
CaptainCoach (00:52.679)
Now it's time for GM to Celestial, right? On every single character. there you go.
Death And Gaming (00:58.054)
Yes.
Death And Gaming (01:03.72)
Yeah, I'm Death in Gaming. I'm actually pretty new to the YouTube scene since, you know, Marvel Rivals came around. I made a bunch of videos in the beginning, educational stuff, simple, but mostly positioning things because I noticed that there was a problem in the community where everyone was, you know, focusing on aim trainers for hours every day. And I'm like, you just need to stand in better places and you'll win 90 % more games. And that's kind of like how a lot of my videos started to pop off. And since then, I just became sort of the...
educational rivals YouTuber and yeah, I am a DPS main Psylocke there, but I flex to playing Luna, Rocket, Cap, Emma, Meg, you know, I like to understand how all roles work. Same as I did in Overwatch, played Overwatch for eight years as a Tracer main. Played all roles to GM and yeah, that was kind of, you know, I was always held back by my mechanics, but my strategies were always like, you know, understand the momentum.
get your picks, play to live, play around the objective. You can win games lot easier that way. And that's kind what I was teaching people and it kind of caught on. So yeah.
Coach Mills (02:06.798)
Yeah, I actually saw your recent short that has been going viral where you're like, this is how you stand against a Hawkeye. Like you were spectating a high ranked Luna player that was just like nonstop peeking a Hawkeye for like four fights and then she just dies. She just gets killed. Yeah, cause she's trying.
Death And Gaming (02:13.382)
Yeah.
Paz (02:17.982)
yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:19.035)
Yeah. He just dies. Hawkeye's has, she's got the cross, he's got the cross there in the same spot. He hasn't moved it and he peaks her four times or he, yeah, he peaks him four times and then eventually dies. And he's like, yeah, can we switch off for the penny? I'm like, why did you, your tanks are full health. Why did you do that? Yeah.
Paz (02:27.342)
Yep.
Coach Mills (02:34.542)
Yeah, yeah, classic. Yeah, I did classic.
CaptainCoach (02:39.497)
So one of my favorite parts about this podcast is just being able to meet different people in the community. And you guys, so you both do educational content. You both try to kind of like pride yourself on like having an idea of like who's supposed to do what. So over this year that the game has been out now, you guys have played, well, especially you Paz, a bunch of different characters. Where do you think the roles lie from like where they started Tank, DPS Healer to where they are now? Like, do you think the roles have changed in power? Do you think like...
Support has gotten better or worse, know, where do we rank them? One, two, three, then and now. Paz, we'll go with you first, I guess.
Paz (03:17.934)
I mean I've always been a believer from the very start of this game like especially from going from flex support and overwatch to Support in this game supports on that wall undoubtedly at least I think at most ranks have like like at the start of the game like above all like the most important role like all you have to do is press your button right and if you mess up your button you mess up the ultimate economy for the entire game and Getting back from that is really bad. I mean, that's like I have a lot to say about like how you can carry in different things as well
But like, season five, if we're talking about right now, if you are not playing Gambit, you are losing the game. He is 100 % the most important character, he is a developer, he has made it so that support is by, like the better Gambit wins in my opinion, if Gambit's in the game. Maybe that's a little bit harsh, I mean I'd have to play more on my main, but from what I've seen from pro play, from ranked, the first Gambit alt wins the game. So I definitely think supports.
Coach Mills (03:54.241)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:55.176)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (04:12.14)
We're definitely gonna talk about Gambit before we jump into that. No, you're good, you're good. Say whatever's on your mind. But you said something interesting there was one messed up support alt messes up your entire team's alt economy. Can you be more specific? Because I think that's really interesting. What do mean by that?
Paz (04:15.019)
My fault, my fault. Yeah.
Coach Mills (04:16.47)
Yeah, you're good. yeah, and yeah, I think you're right, too. Yeah.
Paz (04:27.957)
Well, yeah, like let's say for example, like you're up two in a fight and you're playing in like under like plat like because I coach a lot of players to if you accidentally mess up and you you rip like a cloak and dagger ultimate you're giving the enemy team a very easy time to not just win one fight because they have to support us now but when another fight now with a free DPS ult so if we're messing up the ult that like stops these like that forces players to actually have good neutral and not just press one button makes it a lot
harder for us to make it back in a fight, especially at these lower ELOs where players might not have as good of like aim neutral positioning, you can take advantage of that.
CaptainCoach (05:02.91)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's interesting, like forcing people to actually have good neutral by not just using your alt just for tempo, I guess? Or like just like whatever.
Coach Mills (05:05.848)
Gotcha.
Paz (05:12.819)
Yeah, it could go a lot of different ways, but I just see like if you mess up a support all it's it just feels horrible for everyone, especially yourself.
CaptainCoach (05:20.261)
Okay, like ranking wise, would say supports are stronger than now when they started?
Paz (05:25.237)
I would say, yeah, I mean, it's crazy to say. think supports were the strongest before, but now like with Gambit, supports are like crazy strong right now. They have so much potential. As far as the other two, I think like DPS and tank, I think in lower ELOs, like until you get to the top, like 1%, maybe in like Celestial and Eternity, I think DPS is like the second most important. But when you get like to really high levels where all the DPS are kind of shooting, I feel like tanks that are good at actually setting up your off angles and like setting you up.
the better tanks, like I feel like that is such a difficult role, but that also might be like, maybe I'm not as good a tank as I am these other roles in this game. I think every role like has its strengths and weaknesses. I think supports are just really important, but then higher you go, the space matters a lot more. Whereas in like, if I'm playing in gold and I'm on Hella, I'm just gonna shoot everyone. Whereas in Celestial, maybe I have some like God tier Hella on the other team too, it slows me down a little bit.
Coach Mills (06:12.771)
Yeah, right.
CaptainCoach (06:12.945)
Right.
Death And Gaming (06:13.123)
Just endulate people, yeah.
CaptainCoach (06:18.14)
Right.
Death And Gaming (06:19.727)
Yeah, I would actually is interesting. I don't know. Like I find the easiest time I have winning games is usually when I'm playing tank and it's because of the fact that I don't need to be super mechanically good. I just need to hold space and not die. If I hold space and not die and I give my DPS enough time, like if I can hold that convoy down, I know you've done this, Captain Coach, in one of our games. When you're playing a dive tank and you jump on that convoy and you got three people there and you're keeping that convoy from moving anywhere, you buy your team so much time to
Coach Mills (06:20.237)
Makes sense.
Death And Gaming (06:49.251)
make mistakes and still come back in the fight and the convoys not moving anywhere. You're controlling the objective by not getting any kills at all. And by using that same sort of strategy, by just being like, I'm just going to stay alive as tank. I find it is like a lot of times has been the easiest to carry. whereas like in that same, in that same sort of idea, like when I have good tanks as a DPS, I can pop off. And when I have tanks that are falling over the frontline, cause they play too aggressive or they die too quickly as a DPS, I can't do anything.
and supports dude, played, I, man, I played support all last season basically, cause no one wanted to play. I was solo fill in it, solo healing as rocket more often than I was, was not. And it was a miserable experience. Supports are super strong. And like you said, Paz, like if you mess up that all, you're basically, you lost the team fight. You just lost it entirely. And that's the part that sucks is there's so much emphasis put on the support ultimates that like, when you mess that up, you really lose it for your team.
But the thing is, is no one's going to play support because support can lose you the game, but it's not necessarily going to win you the game. You still need people to get kills. And the frustrating part about playing support is that you could sit there, be healing people and you have DPS who like walk in and die 1v6, four fights in a row. And you're like, okay, me and the tanks now have to buy time for this guy to come back a fifth time. Maybe on this fifth time that he comes back, then we can flip the fight around. But there's only so much healing you can do.
but you can't stop them from having bad positioning. And that's the part that sucks because like, you'll take the blame if you mess up an ult and you lose the game, but you'll get none of the credit if you win. And that's the part where like, as a support, was a super frustrating experience where I actually enjoy playing support a lot, but I'll refuse to do it now for certain players in high elo because the moment I see them, I'm like, I'd rather lose the game with this person again than play support for them. Like, there's no way. Like, it was the most miserable experience last season where I was like, I'm going to get to my new peak, I'm going to climb as high as I can. And I was like,
CaptainCoach (08:38.034)
It's valid.
Paz (08:38.132)
Hahaha
Death And Gaming (08:46.415)
I want to quit because of these DPS players. done. Like, it was bad.
Coach Mills (08:49.102)
Cause for, I kind of like the idea of ranking the roles, but my problem with ranking the roles is one, there's a lot of overlap I think between the roles. Like a lot of characters do similar things across roles. Like Thor is not that far away from a DPS, know, neither is, Mantis isn't either. You know, like there's like a lot of like overlap, like Mr. Fantastic's not that far away from a tank and characters can play.
CaptainCoach (08:49.405)
Yeah, dude.
Coach Mills (09:13.806)
Especially brawl, DPS can play effectively like a tank in a lot of situations. I think that there are like eight characters that are just so far above every other character in the game that they might as well just be ranked way above. And I think it's like Gambit, Invis, clearly Gambit, Invis. I think it's side Daredevil. You could probably include Helen Amore in there, but I think really side Daredevil is like really the like...
crazy characters. And then for Tank, it's actually, I think it's three different characters. I think it's Cap, I think it's Magneto, and I actually think it's Angela. And then I would also put in like Venom and Penny off to the side depending on the situation those characters are broken. Especially Penny, we will talk about Penny later in this pod because she has the highest win rate in the entire game and it's not even remotely close. If you look at the stats, I know that she's not played in every situation like this.
Paz (10:02.518)
and
Coach Mills (10:12.494)
pick and choose moments where she's played. But yeah, these are the raid boss characters that, in my opinion, are just so far above the other characters that, yeah, I don't know. How do y'all feel about that meta, that top line meta? How do you feel? Do you agree with the best characters in the game? Do you think that it's okay that these characters are good? Do you wanna see more buffs to the other characters? Going into season five, they just buffed everything. So what do y'all wanna see kinda going forward here?
Paz (10:42.093)
I mean, I agree with your list. I mean, the Thanos characters are, I mean, it's Gambit, Invis, what is it? Gambit, Invis, Mag, Cap, Angela, which I know a lot of people are different about. I mean, I can explain why I think Angela's good and then like the side Daredevil, Ella. Yeah, yeah, she's insanely good. Yeah, I mean, was talking, yeah. I mean, I was talking to Shocker. He plays for, well, he used to play for Nemesis. I don't know like what their org is now.
Coach Mills (10:54.594)
No, think Angela's fucking broken. I'll die on this hill. So I will actually die on the Angela's broken hill. I actually think that that character is gigabusted. Like insanely busted.
Death And Gaming (10:58.267)
Yeah.
Paz (11:08.811)
But like he was always talking to me like dude if if invis gets banned like unless you have Angela like you need a ban it like it she is terrorizing lobbies in my in my games like she's insane but in terms of like do I think these characters should be good I mean it's a hero shooter. I feel like some kits are just like they're just conceptually good like they can never be bad like if I look at Psylocke for example a character that is capable of being a dive hero but doesn't really have to hard engage ever she's never going to be bad.
compared to someone like BP who has to always take that risk of possibly dying and dashing back and forth. Like she doesn't have to commit. She can mark. I mean, her ult's good. Like she's definitely strong, but like it's like Star Lord too kind of has that issue too. But I feel like he also has some things that like holds him back a little bit as well. I mean, he's very good right now too. I think he's a sleeper pick, but it's like some characters I think are conceptually just going to be better than others. The thing is, it's like I used to really care about like what characters are good and bad, but the more I play these hero shooters and like I look at my mental health while I play these things as well.
It's like I will just play what is good and I'll do my best to enjoy it because I'm not a dev. It's not my job to really make the game like fun and enjoyable. But mean, I would like to see characters like Hulk back. I feel like he's OK right now, but it's like it's kind of hard with some of the other stuff, too. It's just like I don't think a character like Hela should be getting booked. Yeah, like Hulk is fun. Like I love Hulk. I love playing against Hulk. Let's see more Hulk, please.
CaptainCoach (12:10.791)
Hmm.
CaptainCoach (12:19.913)
Preach, my mental health is struggling.
Death And Gaming (12:21.127)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (12:27.207)
In fact, I forgot this is from our last pod. gotta get, I gotta take this down. It says season five W, no, no more, no more. It's rough, man.
Paz (12:31.051)
I see it, let's see it, but yeah.
Coach Mills (12:31.47)
Yeah, I mean and and and coach just speaking on on Hulk really quickly because I Hulk's been struggling this season It's just a really hard season to play Hulk. What do you think is the main cause of that compared to last season? Do you think it's is it in vis specifically Gambit just uptime like not being able to utilize like the faster tempo of some of these old what do think it is?
Death And Gaming (12:34.639)
No way.
Paz (12:35.302)
but I mean, yeah, I would like more variety for sure, but.
CaptainCoach (12:58.985)
It's it's I don't think it's anything meta related I don't I don't think it's just power creeps plain and simple all the new characters are like I mean like I know Samito said like that he doesn't think the game has power creep in that's one of the things when he we had him on I just totally disagreed with completely I mean like a perfect example I Hulk got a really nice buff this patch like he
can get his ult charged really quick. He definitely has more windows to carry, just can spamming that shield and it opens up a couple different play styles you can do on him where it's like, can be way more aggressive with like harassing the back line, kind of just going like in and out and stuff. It just doesn't matter at the end of the day, I don't do enough damage to really kill people.
So I mean, when you have an invisible woman just cycling through a cooldowns easily, a gambit doing more damage than I am in half the games and just obviously like you said, Pat, is just having those tools to just completely or death, win or lose you a game. I straight up, I just feel like I have to like play so well just to have a chance. And basically in short, the gap between the best heroes and the worst heroes is bigger than it's ever been.
Paz (13:54.647)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (14:02.769)
in my opinion. That to me is power creep because the worst heroes keep getting buffs, you know, so.
Death And Gaming (14:08.569)
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of heroes where the game, like, as it's kind of gone on and the way they've sort of like buffed and nerfed things is that it incentivizes you to swap a lot more often in ways where before I think that there's like what I would call like soft counters versus like a hard counter, right? Like, you know, taking a character into a matchup where you're getting countered should be one of those things where it's more difficult, but it's not impossible. Like, and they added some things to the game
where, you know, like Groot with his ironwood wall making it so that way, like, Wolverine can't kidnap him. These things are the things I like to see added to the game, where they're giving, you know, people who have bad matchups an extra tool in their toolkit. And I think that's what players want more than anything. They don't want balance. They want to feel like what they could do, or feel like they had the tools in their toolkit to be able to solve the problems in front of them. Because, you know, I remember when people were talking all about, like, the Flyer meta and how bad it was, like, I was learning magic for the first time in that season.
CaptainCoach (14:43.059)
Hmm.
Death And Gaming (15:08.165)
which would have been, should have been the worst, but I was like, I'm just not feeling this whole quote unquote, like flyer meta like everyone else is. And the wind rates come out and all the flyers have a lower wind rate than all the dive heroes still. Like they just kind of performed on average as everyone else. The player perception though, matters far more than whether or not something is actually fair. And like me as a Psylocke main, I will say first and foremost right now, the Psylocke alt buff was bad for the game, like unhealthy. Because before, by putting damage into her neutral kit,
If I was up against triple support, if I timed it just right, if I went for the right target, I could get a kill on triple support and give my team the advantage. And my ult was really crappy, but if I solo ulted a person at the right time, I could really control the momentum. It offered you a lot of really interesting ways to play your kit. And now it sucks because now instead of having these tools and these choices, now I just farm my ult really, really fast. And when Gambit ults, I hit Q and I just kill them through the ults. And that's, there's no counter play on the other end. There's no interesting.
dynamic like interactive experience on my end, like that's just bad overall.
Coach Mills (16:08.59)
much more boring gameplay loops, yeah, 100%. I think, and to speak to the power creep problem, I think something that they should do is, I like the idea of, like let's take Invis's change now, where she can put a shield on her. I like that in theory, because in theory what it does is it gives her dueling options, right? The problem is, you give her just that, and that is just a massive buff to her sustainability, right? It's a massive buff to her survivability. So like,
CaptainCoach (16:09.148)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (16:11.045)
Yeah, exactly. Like.
Coach Mills (16:36.064)
If you give characters options, I think there needs to be compensary something done. I think most players are cool if they have more options, but maybe less power. We don't need more options and more power. We need just more options, right? so, take a character, give them more versatile options, or maybe even a higher skill cap on a certain ability or whatever. Some type of reward for hitting a mechanic or whatever, and then you can reduce their power a little bit.
CaptainCoach (16:59.623)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (17:05.806)
Because I think that's kind of what happened to Infant. That's just why she's so strong. It's because they gave her more options, in doing that made her insane.
Death And Gaming (17:12.903)
Yeah, it feels great for her, but it doesn't feel good for anyone else. And that's my thing is always like, I was, you know, it's not just like, okay, like give more control to the player. It's like, okay, but what is the counterplay? That's what I always want to ask right afterwards. Like, what do we have when we're fighting against Invis? Is it obvious to us, like what we should do in this scenario? Because a lot of times when she casts a shield on yourself, you're like, do I just keep distracting her? Like, what do I do in this scenario?
Coach Mills (17:17.399)
Right.
Paz (17:29.783)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (17:34.749)
Yeah. Can't CC her, can't really dive her. Her heals are insane, her ult's insane. Like what do you do against a good invis? You kind of just like pray that your DPS like put a healing reduce or something. Like pray she's not paying attention. My issue with the whole talk on power creep is I'm okay with stuff being really broken and overpowered, but I just feel like, like you said with the Psylocke ult, Gambit ult, like most games just come down to which Gambit knows how to ult better. Like pretty much.
Paz (17:45.005)
Yep.
Paz (18:01.633)
Yep, 100%.
Coach Mills (18:02.286)
You
CaptainCoach (18:02.597)
That's one button, that's one button. You can sit in Healbot and then just get good healing per second and then just no one to ult and you could win most of your games that way. You don't even have to be good. You don't have to be good at the game. That's an issue. That's a big issue in my opinion for ranked.
Death And Gaming (18:13.275)
Yeah, I... Yeah. Yeah. There is... There's a big problem I know, like, I was trying to play Psylocke the old way and I asked... I asked Tapp, I was like, was like, what am I doing wrong? was like, what do you do with Psylocke now? He's like, when Gambit ults you, you just ult too. And I was like, that's it? I was like, I just ulted the back line, you know, we both support ults at the same time. Gambit ults, Psylocke ults, I press Q on their back line, I deleted their supports through it. And I was like, this is really bad. Like, that's not...
Paz (18:17.334)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (18:30.729)
Ha
Paz (18:31.649)
Thank
CaptainCoach (18:42.225)
Yeah, there's like layers to it, right? So you do like Gambit Star-Lord, okay, what do we need? Okay, well Emma's been an answer to Gambit Star-Lord. do Emma, she CCs the Star-Lord, negates that effect and gives your team a chance. Or like Magneto with Gambit Punny. There's definitely like little wrinkles, but what we're finding is like the characters that are becoming meta to counter the meta have always still been meta. So it's like, yeah, not much is changing.
Death And Gaming (18:43.441)
That's not okay.
Death And Gaming (18:51.239)
Mm-hmm.
Death And Gaming (18:56.998)
Mm-hmm.
Death And Gaming (19:03.825)
They've always been better. They're not going anywhere. Yeah.
Paz (19:06.369)
Yeah, conceptually, conceptually, they'll never not be like they'll never be bad unless their numbers are like completely terrible. And like that's what I'm that's what I was trying to get at. It's like a character like hella that can just to tap you across the map no matter what patch. What are you going to do? Like make her three tap across the map. She's never going to get played. And Phoenix is just the meta. like it's the same problem a game like Overwatch had. You had Bastion before. Like he's he's either OP or he's not like it's just that's your shooters.
Death And Gaming (19:10.161)
Yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (19:22.002)
Right.
Coach Mills (19:22.808)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (19:27.052)
Yeah. And in order to make like a character like Black Panther meta, you would have to make him so strong in his engages that it offsets the downside of like when the engagements go wrong. Yeah.
Paz (19:37.877)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (19:40.681)
It'd probably be a good time to s- You Paz, you had some strong opinions about Penny before we started- We went live, and I feel like she's probably a bit of an outlier in all this.
Coach Mills (19:48.839)
yeah, cause you just did an unranked Gia, you completed it right? Unranked Gia Monpenny?
Paz (19:51.401)
Yeah. I did complete it. Thank you. It's done. No, I and a lot of the penny players, I've actually gotten some DMs from some pretty good penny players, and I'm like, I still hate your character, but respect that you're good as your character, like respect to you, that you're, you know, going and like enjoying yourself. But yeah, Penny is she's she's something else.
Coach Mills (19:55.158)
and yet you did not have a fun time.
CaptainCoach (20:12.679)
Okay, do you think the win rate is indicative of how good she is, first of all?
Coach Mills (20:13.207)
So, yeah.
Paz (20:16.87)
Well, OK, win rates in general, think like people have to understand like what a win rate is and like why, because like, for example, Magic used to have like a super high win rate too. But it's like these characters get played in very specific situations and they're very good and they're very specific situations. And when they're bad, people don't play them. They switch off of them. So the win rate looks like, I played Penny first point defense and won a full hold. But then they'll just switch off on offense and they won't play it like. And I don't think like.
I don't think we should be banning Penny. That's the first thing. Please stop banning Penny. Please. Please, it is so bad. Please.
Coach Mills (20:47.468)
Okay.
Death And Gaming (20:47.919)
Yes, please stop banning Penny. Low elo, please stop banning Penny.
Coach Mills (20:51.886)
Here's here's here's gonna be this is gonna be my argument for why I'm gonna have a pretty anti penny argument. I don't necessarily think it's it's like I don't think penny shouldn't exist in some way I just think they need to rebalance the characters power level like it way too much defensive capabilities because okay So when you look at the win rates, right when we think of like what's a high win rate across ranks? Like you said in that in that magic example, the highest you ever got was like 57 %
CaptainCoach (20:52.018)
I bet Penny.
Paz (20:54.732)
That's valid, that's valid. Sometimes you can.
Death And Gaming (20:54.737)
Your help, that's fair, that's valid.
CaptainCoach (21:11.625)
Mmm.
Paz (21:15.82)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (21:21.23)
58%. That was the highest she got. And she's only being played in specific situations. That's why she had a high. She wasn't like super busted or anything. It's just, you played those spots. And that's true. That's true with Penny too, right? She's only played on defense. She's only played on specific spots. Across ranks with the team up with Rocket, she has a 68 % win rate. A 60. Go look at the stats on tracker. Yes. And in Celestial, in Celestial, she's above 60%.
Paz (21:28.524)
and you would switch off if you were losing to a metahero.
Paz (21:41.356)
It's, wait, hold up, 68? No way the player base is, oh, we need to fix that.
Coach Mills (21:50.894)
It's like a 63, 64 % in Celestial. And so like, here's my argument. Yes, she's only played on defense. Yes, she's only played on choke points. Is it okay to have a character that is played in a very specific section? Sure, but when they are, they're fucking holding people first point. You're not capping points against this character. I mean, no, I agree though, but what's the acceptable, like I understand like Penny will never be played in like pro play because teams are not fucking.
Paz (22:08.581)
But like is it not just like low-key a issue sometimes like can we not?
CaptainCoach (22:12.329)
Mmm.
Paz (22:18.464)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (22:19.95)
They're gonna they're gonna tanks are gonna walk into the mines and bait them out for their team. They're gonna wrap around They're gonna get an angle. They're gonna be effective but like but in ranked play No, no, they don't it's like it's a character that feasts on just ranked chaos and she always will and I understand that she's only played in specific situations But why do we have a character that is literally like on these spots? like
Paz (22:27.692)
Okay, I see what you're saying. In rank, that doesn't
CaptainCoach (22:35.88)
Yeah.
Paz (22:39.212)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (22:45.132)
You know, she just feasts. And here's another problem I have with Penny. I think Penny's actually a really high skill ceiling character. I know Brandon, Brandon Glitch, shout out Brandon Glitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's insane at Penny, especially on attack. He does some crazy stuff. I think that character has a really high skill ceiling. And I think that they can preserve that high skill ceiling, change up some of the defensive tools on that character. The character is just fundamentally too, in her spots, she's way too powerful. And then, yeah, she's not good in those other spots, but like,
Paz (22:51.233)
I can agree.
Death And Gaming (22:53.988)
and grace you have my duo.
Coach Mills (23:14.466)
If you just don't play her in those spots, she's just, there's like really, really broken thing that people can just whip out and like just win the games for free. I don't like that. I think that that's a dumb design. I'm not.
CaptainCoach (23:20.105)
Paz is getting PTSD. I could tell he didn't want to talk about Penny. He was just like, don't know. What are we doing? What are we doing, bro?
Death And Gaming (23:20.956)
I think.
I
Paz (23:24.748)
I'm down. I'm down. I'm so down to let loose on Penny. I have so many things to say.
Coach Mills (23:27.918)
I'm sorry, I got beef with Penny this pot and beef with Angela. We'll get to the Angela beef later, but this is my big beef.
Death And Gaming (23:35.346)
I think that the Penny players, like Brandon would agree with you, where they, you a lot of times when they were buffing Penny, they were buffing what she was already good at, right? And it's just like, they want other tools to be able to handle some of their problems, right? Because otherwise, when you make them just more defensive heavy, then like, yeah, they're really good at what they do. She has the Symmetra problem in Overwatch. Symmetra had a great win rate, but it was because you'd pick her out for Li Zhang. Like, and that's the one map where you could just TP to point and just lock it down, right?
Paz (23:59.597)
And.
Death And Gaming (24:03.309)
But then nobody would ever play Symmetra outside of that. So of course she'd have a great win rate, but that's not reflective of like what's the reality. Yeah.
Coach Mills (24:08.534)
Right, it's actually a perfect example and that shit pissed me off back then too. It was the same shit, it was the same. Okay. Bro, you could just put, they just went TorbSem, they went TorbSem defense back in Overwatch 1 in the early days. And sometimes you just got first point hell because your fucking tracer wouldn't swap off and they are just completely useless. I mean, you know what I'm talking about. It happened a million times.
CaptainCoach (24:10.397)
Death And Gaming (24:13.477)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (24:13.779)
Yeah.
Paz (24:14.09)
I enjoyed it. I thought it was funny.
Death And Gaming (24:15.963)
Yeah, but here's
Paz (24:17.612)
I liked it.
Death And Gaming (24:32.645)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is yeah.
Paz (24:35.664)
I used to abuse it on the console. I like it. Yeah, of course.
Coach Mills (24:37.166)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, my man said I went sim. Well, that's the thing, Paz, is because you think about what works and you just adapt and play what works. There's people that will just, they don't give a fuck about, they will just play, you know, whatever melee character into Penny and just lose for no reason. Yeah, it feels gross.
Paz (24:43.82)
huh.
Paz (24:48.78)
dash their head into a wall.
Paz (24:55.308)
Oh, it feels horrible. Trust me, I'm aware of when I played Magic Bronze at the gym and I had to go against a penny. I was, yeah.
CaptainCoach (24:56.979)
Well, she does force you on, like flyers are good into her. The flyers aren't really played too much. it's, I do think a bit of it is willingness of the player base just to swap to what's needed. Whenever I see a Penny on Hulk, I'm like, okay, Magneto or Punny. I'm just gonna go one of those two. Those are just characters I'm comfortable with.
Coach Mills (25:09.29)
Agreed, that's 100%.
Death And Gaming (25:14.117)
Yeah, I.
Coach Mills (25:14.7)
Yeah, well that, I hate this, there's a lot of characters in the game that just feel super polarizing where if they're playing that character and they're playing it well, you just cannot play at least like 20 % of the roster, absolutely not, or you just lose the game on the spot. And I think that they should really get away from that. I think that's one of the reasons why the flying meta felt bad is because it just, there's a whole bunch of characters that didn't interact with flyers, like at all.
Paz (25:28.62)
Mm-hmm.
Death And Gaming (25:38.267)
Yeah, especially tanks at the time.
Coach Mills (25:39.182)
And that's one of the reasons they added so many grounding effects, know, Bucky ground and like thin ground and Thor ground because they wanted to kind of bridge that gap in the same way that they did with Groot with the wall, bridge the gap with the, you know, the CC, the Bucky hooks and the Wolverine stuff. I feel like Penny is right there where, yeah, there's just you have to swap her loose. She's like a swap or lose character, basically, unless your main just happens to not be counted by her. I just don't I don't really think that that design is great. And I would like to see like.
CaptainCoach (25:59.88)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (26:07.81)
get rid of some of those defensive powers, increase maybe the ability to play her on attack, maybe give her some other tools. And I think Penny players would like that. If they have more tools, if the character plays in a different way, I think that would be kind of cool. You would have to dramatically reduce that defensive capability, it just feels kind of like, the character to me feels like a gimmick, but it's like a gimmick that's gone too strong of a gimmick.
Death And Gaming (26:23.611)
Yeah, but I think that they would take that.
CaptainCoach (26:29.809)
It's just too hard for the average player. the amount of passive health and shielding you get just over time, it's just, yeah, you still have to do the mini game of kill her minds and that's still possible. It's just way harder to do now. And I think that's kind of the crux of the issue. It's like, yeah, Penny has counterplay and then like the top levels of play probably still won't be the best, but it's still, it's harder for the average player. And that's really where most of the games take place with like people.
Coach Mills (26:53.806)
And and and this is I'm sorry to yap a little too too much But you just reminded me of something my other beef is with map design because I think some of these choke points are psych Psychotic some of these choke points Dracula's castle first defense. I it's it's the yeah Yeah, what's that way? I don't even remember what the symbiote map is but it's the one penny penny dev yeah the defense Yeah, I think I think these yeah, I mean yeah, but like
Paz (26:54.476)
I can see where you're coming from. That makes sense, yeah.
Death And Gaming (27:01.819)
Yes.
Paz (27:02.656)
Day one. Yep. Yes. Horrible. Eichenwalde first was not even that round for that long and they switched it. We need another lane.
Death And Gaming (27:07.729)
That's a map design problem.
Death And Gaming (27:13.798)
Yeah.
Clint R.
Paz (27:17.558)
symbiotic surface. Let's go right, but people don't know how to do that yet.
CaptainCoach (27:21.321)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (27:22.562)
There should be more lanes, like there should be 100 % more lanes and like, and just more openness. I really, I don't know why we're stuffing into a choke, like a tiny, tiny choke in every map it feels like we're just stuffing into this tiny, tiny, tiny choke.
Paz (27:25.249)
Yeah.
Paz (27:34.125)
yep, yep.
Death And Gaming (27:37.882)
I will, I do want to say that like one as someone who duos a lot with a penny player, like he, we get so much shit for playing penny on offense all the time, no matter how successful we might be doing that day. And everyone hates penny when they're on their team, but nobody likes to go, I'll go up against penny. And it's, crazy. Cause like me as like a DPS player, like all my videos are always talking about how you need to enable your team. Right. And for me.
Coach Mills (27:58.242)
Hehehehe
CaptainCoach (27:58.857)
Hehehe.
Death And Gaming (28:07.419)
When I'm up against a penny, I'll never ban a penny because of the fact I'm like, I'm a DPS main. I have so many heroes to pick from that can solve the problem of the penny. And so I'm not worried about a penny. And a lot of times what happens is like, Hey, we need someone to break the penny minds. And the DPS are like, well, that's not my job. It's like, yeah, it is. Like that is legitimately your job. Like it is so easy for you guys to do it. Like
CaptainCoach (28:20.05)
Yeah.
Paz (28:25.356)
It's everyone's too.
CaptainCoach (28:25.555)
Bro.
Coach Mills (28:25.954)
Nah me, nah me. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (28:28.081)
I crash out once a week based off of what you're saying right now not happening. Literally, literally.
Coach Mills (28:33.206)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (28:33.477)
Yes, dude, I, know it's going to happen at some point because like I've, I've ranted to Mills about this a lot, but DPS players are fucking boosted. I'm sorry. Like it is they as a DPS main, will call them out right now. All they do because they, they're like, my job is only to dive the enemy back line. No, your job is to do damage. And sometimes that means destroying Penny mines because you have, you can get a better angle on it than anyone else. Sometimes that means peeling for your back line. Sometimes that means diving like
CaptainCoach (28:41.417)
My god, my god finally finally finally it's been said yo Mills
Coach Mills (29:01.154)
No, they would know that I think the Hulk I think the Hulk should go destroy the mines get the Hulk in there to destroy the mines
CaptainCoach (29:01.789)
They're just farming stats. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, you're, you're can bro.
Death And Gaming (29:04.825)
Yeah, yeah, can we get, can we get one of our tanks to like, play one of the two heroes? Yeah.
Paz (29:05.233)
Ha
No, no, don't say, Hawk, switch off. Why aren't you playing a meta tank? Yeah. It's not me on Magic. It's you, buddy.
Coach Mills (29:09.744)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
CaptainCoach (29:10.085)
Yeah, they'll tell me to switch and be like, yeah, well, okay, let me just poke him in his back.
Death And Gaming (29:14.385)
This goes, yeah, this goes right back to the Hawkeye analogy, right? Where they're just like, they peek the Hawkeye four times and die. And they're just like, yeah, can you switch for me? Dude, this is a you problem. Like you can solve your own problem right now, but players in rivals are so stubborn and they just refuse to switch. They refuse to do anything. And like the problems are easily solvable.
Coach Mills (29:15.21)
Ahaha
Paz (29:20.25)
Bye!
CaptainCoach (29:31.654)
I...
Coach Mills (29:33.722)
Well, the problem is some of those situations come up, I guess they're infrequent enough to where a player could never learn to adapt to those situations and they could still climb. So like if you just if you just win, like let's just say that their whole mentality is just back line frag, back line frag. And then like, you know, the only time that that doesn't work is. Yeah. But when they run into those situations, they don't think maybe I'm doing something wrong because it doesn't happen every game.
CaptainCoach (29:51.901)
That's how they think. That's how a lot of them think. They won't swap. They're only...
Paz (29:54.156)
Herder, kill backline.
Death And Gaming (29:56.134)
Never.
Coach Mills (30:02.508)
It's just when these problems arise, they don't understand what these problems are and they just don't. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (30:06.331)
There's multiple strategies. Yeah, there's multiple strategies in order to win and each game you come up with like a different problem. And there's players who are mechanically really good that climb by just diving the enemy back line better than the other guys does. And a lot of people can climb really high doing that. I am not that player. Mechanically, not that great. My accuracy, not that great. But I already know that like DPS players, like especially in high elo, are one.
They have huge egos, so I can depend on them to try and take dumb fights. And two, they're going to min-max, which makes them really predictable. So I look at the enemy team and I'm like, all right, well, there's a wolf, right? I'm not going to try and dive the enemy backline because they're going to do it better than I can. But I know that they have a wolf and I'm just going to, I'm going to know, I'm going to look for him. I'm going to shoot the wolf so that way he doesn't get my tanks. And the moment that he dives out, I'm like, okay, I have eight seconds now to go attack them. And that's my window of opportunity. By just understanding that like, you know,
the strategy of like, what's my win condition this game? Like, okay, well, the wolf is, is shooting on my entire team. So my entire job, the rest of the game is just to stop him from doing that. Or there's a Spidey that's attacking my back line. My job is just to do that. And as a DPS main, I have the largest tools in my toolkit with the heroes at my disposal to be able to solve the problems. That's the reason why I'm always harping the DPS players.
CaptainCoach (31:10.675)
Yeah, dude.
CaptainCoach (31:20.561)
If you start a cult, if you start a cult right now, I'll follow it. Whatever you want. Like, you got like a stream I can do, anybody?
Coach Mills (31:21.902)
So do you think that the rivals rank system? Encourages these bad behaviors though in a lot of ways because you don't get rewarded and as if you stall the card for five fights as cap or you destroy every penny mine or force force that Loki totems you don't get rewarded for any of that shit like at all like I remember as there was a game on venom that I stole the I stole the cart like almost indefinitely and I baited out Loki totems a bit like like every single fight and I ended the game like eight and eight
Death And Gaming (31:30.225)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
CaptainCoach (31:32.007)
Yes.
Death And Gaming (31:37.551)
Dude, it's the-
No, you get punished.
CaptainCoach (31:42.951)
Yes.
Coach Mills (31:51.404)
And like, I got like 16, 15. And it's like, no, I like, know when I'm fucking feeding and I was actually doing like so much that game. And it's just like, it doesn't matter. It's like it's on the stats. They don't give it to you.
Death And Gaming (31:51.493)
Yeah. Six, yeah. 15, 16 SR.
CaptainCoach (31:53.065)
Bro, you get... You get...
Death And Gaming (31:58.492)
Yeah. But that's, that's what.
CaptainCoach (32:00.725)
And you'll get flamed harder by your teammates at the end of the game because your stats are lower. I hate it.
Death And Gaming (32:03.399)
Exactly. They're going to look at the stats. They're to look at the stats and be like, oh, you're eight and eight. But it's just like, you know what you did. that's, that's the reason why I say DPS players are boosted. It's like it, it, it incentivizes and it tells you if you do mindless damage, it doesn't even matter your deaths. And we all know this. does. Yeah. They all do it. It doesn't take into consideration deaths. So performance-based SR directly benefits people who do mindless damage and just run it down. But the people who are trying to play to live, they're trying to play around the objective. They're trying to stall it out.
Coach Mills (32:04.354)
Yeah!
CaptainCoach (32:08.848)
I hate it so much.
CaptainCoach (32:18.995)
They all do that too.
Paz (32:20.694)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (32:32.643)
You get punished for peeling for your supports. You get punished for stalling. You get punished for doing all this stuff where like pulling attention and pulling resources because that's not seen as quote unquote good performance. But and
CaptainCoach (32:42.909)
dude, it's miserable. Like when I'm against a Psylocke, I know that their goal is just to farm ult charge off of me now. when I play Psylocke and Thing, those are my two most played. I know that that's what they're trying to do. So the way I play against them now is I constantly keep tabs of where they are and just play peekaboo the entire game. I just don't let them touch. So wherever they go, I tried to like stop and chokes, but like I will never let them shoot me. And that to me is like, I had to play that defensively as a role that's supposed to be able to like take space. Like I have to just play like hit, but it works.
because it basically pulls them, like you said, pulls them into bad fights. Mills, I think a lot of the people who have watched this podcast, former episodes of this podcast, we've had people on and they've constantly said that, that supports are boosted, supports are boosted. So the fact that you're saying DPS are boosted as a DPS player, I think is honestly pretty massive as a whole. And I'm gonna agree with you to an extent. I feel like they have the most options and they're the least likely to swap.
Death And Gaming (33:15.057)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (33:29.27)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (33:32.707)
as, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (33:37.134)
Like, like, like they definitely have great mechanics, but like there there's more to this game than just we can hit heads, right? Like there's more to this game than we can like, you know, jam our daredevil combo in the back line. There's just a lot of adaptations that need to be made. And like, hey, if you're you're if you have a lot of damage and a lot of limbs, oh, I don't have to swap. I'm not going to I'm not going to I'm not going to swap off whatever I'm running it down, you know, like. And then there's even people that. Yeah, wait, wait, I want to hear it pass. I want to hear it.
Death And Gaming (33:39.697)
Yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (33:56.113)
Yeah, egos man.
Paz (34:00.318)
If I speak, I'm in big trouble, bro. That's all I'm going to say. Cause I got a crazy take. I think, no, no, this is going to piss off a lot of people. I don't think supports are boosted. I don't think DPS are boosted. I don't even think, I think we're all boosted. I'm going keep it luck. I think we're all boosted. The stuff I've seen, the stuff I've seen. No one has room to complain sometimes. All right.
CaptainCoach (34:01.971)
Do it. what you gotta say, bro. Say what you gotta say.
Death And Gaming (34:10.149)
We're having a lot of hot takes this.
CaptainCoach (34:11.753)
We got some hot
Coach Mills (34:15.38)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (34:15.665)
Whoa.
Coach Mills (34:19.79)
I'm not a saint.
Uh-uh.
Paz (34:24.01)
But I think I mean, I could go. There was a lot of things I could touch on with what you guys said. I mean, performance based ELO, but also why can I have a 43 percent win rate and just play a thousand games and climb to the top point to zero, two percent of players? How does this make sense? Why do I not need to have a 51 percent win rate to climb? And then we get to these these players that like in performance ELO that also factors into it like we're not playing to win the game anymore.
Coach Mills (34:27.63)
Cause it... What?
Death And Gaming (34:40.807)
That's true.
Paz (34:51.382)
because we can just get more elo by just shooting on Moon Knight. get like I'm in Moon Knight Bronze Jam. I was getting like 20 plus what I usually get when on the Penny one. I was getting like 50 a game and like plait. It's insane. I don't know. The big thing I have is I wish we could get to a system where my rank means something and then I can just play to win the game. Like I can just play to break the nest and like I will win more games. Therefore, I will climb more. But then again, I don't play on my main as much.
Coach Mills (34:52.974)
Swap to Moon Knight.
CaptainCoach (35:13.481)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (35:16.872)
I think they did this in Valorant. I might be wrong, Jack and Jen, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in Valorant, after you got to a certain rank, I think it was Immortal or maybe it was Diamond, there was no more performance gains. It was flat, was flat plus and minus. Like you got the performance gains, because the whole point of performance gains is to get people out of ranks that they clearly don't belong in, for one, and then for two, give you little bit of compensation when you played really well and then you didn't win. But when you get to the highest ranks,
Paz (35:29.898)
That would be so nice for you guys.
Coach Mills (35:46.638)
Finding out, like playing to win doesn't mean you have great stats all the time. You can play to win and have terrible stats. Like it doesn't fucking matter if I'm farming their team as Black Panther. If my team needs peel to stop the wolf like you said, then I can play a subpar Bucky or a subpar Namor and I'm doing more than fucking running it down on BP.
Paz (36:08.287)
How bad is it?
Coach Mills (36:13.966)
So it goes down with time. How the performance works is in the lower ranks. The performance is a massive chunk. And then it goes down as you get to the highest rank. My argument is that once we get into a certain rank, it should be completely gone. Maybe there's small pluses. You could do small pluses and minuses. Like I'm talking like one or two points. If for some reason you're like a fucking low celestial player in an eternity lobby and then you like still win that game. Yeah, you can get a little bit more for that because you're like a fish out of water and you still won the game. That's cool. You want a liability, but you shouldn't get it.
Paz (36:19.562)
Okay.
Death And Gaming (36:25.883)
Yes.
Paz (36:26.169)
I'm down with that.
Paz (36:37.067)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (36:37.521)
It's.
I agree.
Coach Mills (36:43.33)
for ace, MVP, none of that shit because like if a tank is creating space for you so you can pop off or a support is enabling you or you your tank is spending the whole game peeling for you as a support so you don't die and feed, those things are not in the fucking stats. They're just not in the stats. So why, yeah.
Paz (36:47.019)
It's so burger.
Paz (36:58.379)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (36:59.247)
If you pull out a support ult as a tank and then you get out alive and your team kites back and your starlord goes in and ults for free, the starlord gets an extra fucking 3 SR at the end of the game, but it's like he wouldn't have won if we didn't fucking go in there and take out the support ult early. Like that's why I always say like there's so many other factors that go into what wins a game that it's not just about the stats and sometimes your stats aren't fully reflecting like what you're doing in the game, which is why I hate when people are just like
why didn't the tank have enough finals at the end of the game? It's like, cause that's not their job. Like that's like a healer, you know, bragging about how much heals they have. That's what you do. Right. But that's.
Paz (37:29.387)
Ugh.
Coach Mills (37:35.67)
Yeah
CaptainCoach (37:36.009)
I'm gonna give everybody a little secret here on how to win as tank right now. And it's exactly what you guys are talking about here with like performance points and stuff. Yeah, I'll go in, force an ult with my ult and get out there whatever. That's kind of my strategy now on Hulk is to just, just ult, literally stand in front of my healers, let the enemy team shoot me, let my healers heal me and just feed them ult charge.
Paz (37:36.456)
You
Paz (37:42.441)
I'm listening.
CaptainCoach (38:02.759)
Like a fucking big gulp, just take that shit, like it's all you, go, drink, drink, drink, up, up, up, up, up, The charge goes up and we just get our ults quicker and I just tell him, I'm like, go, now, gimp it all. And that's how I, because supports are so good that, that's like the only way I can win is by buffing my, basically supporting my supports is like how I play right now. And it's kind of working, it's kind of working.
Paz (38:02.795)
Mm-hmm.
Death And Gaming (38:13.211)
ultimately.
Coach Mills (38:13.218)
Because
Coach Mills (38:23.918)
So a little while ago we had a not controversial figure called Samido on the pod. And he said that that Ultimates was too strong, that there was not enough neutral in this game. And I think most people agree, like there's just too many Ultimates go all around. We should probably like reduce the ult charge or the power level or the duration or whatever the case may be. I feel that with the introduction of Gambit, we have even further pushed ourselves away from a neutral.
Death And Gaming (38:32.849)
Hmm.
Death And Gaming (38:47.16)
across the board.
Coach Mills (38:54.164)
Neutral does not fucking exist anymore when you have an un-Kaitable ultimate that builds other ults. That's literally what it does.
Paz (39:00.339)
Neutral exists for two players. The guy on Gambit on one team and the guy on Gambit on the other team. And that's why I like playing Gambit. I love playing Gambit, but playing against that guy, I'm like, I really hope I have the better one.
CaptainCoach (39:02.089)
Thank
Hahahaha
You
Coach Mills (39:13.432)
Cause it's crazy, he's just using it to build up everyone else's ult on the team. like, that's just, to me that's just so insane. Like I think that, also the fact that it's un-kitable, like you can't run away from it, like you're never gonna be able to leave it cause everyone's just too fast. But on the flip side, I think Gambit ult is really fun to play with. Like it's more fun to like, be able to run it down if I'm on any other character.
Paz (39:17.991)
Yep.
Coach Mills (39:41.954)
with a Gambit ult than like sitting in an Invisal. Like that's kind of boring. So like I'm kind of conflicted there, but I do think that it probably breaches that threshold of too strong, especially like when we talk about like Gambit triple support, I think is really, really strong, especially if you're like, like I think Loki Mantis Gambit is insane actually, like super insane. You just get to Gambit, Gambit, Gambit, Loki Gambit, Mantis, the two Gambit ults built the other ults, so you're gonna Gambit again. like, this is just like a lot of like nonsense.
Death And Gaming (40:00.903)
It's not fun.
Paz (40:08.747)
So OP.
CaptainCoach (40:09.459)
Well, the Gambit Alt does everything. I think you should pick based off of what ability you just use or what cards you just use, whatever, however that mechanic works. That would determine what type of ultimate you get. So you have more choices, and it lowers his power level. So you could have a damage alt. You could have a CC break alt, where everyone's like, you may break them out in their CC immune while they're running. Or maybe get two out of the three. Because yeah.
Coach Mills (40:22.478)
so you are.
Death And Gaming (40:23.651)
interesting.
Coach Mills (40:32.595)
yeah, I actually like that. Everyone gets to be faster, everyone gets to be stronger, everyone gets to be more survivable for a little bit. That's cool.
CaptainCoach (40:40.147)
Well, you should, you, right, you give them more options. Basically, yeah, when you think about what makes a character OP, you gotta look at them in terms of the breadth of what they can do, which Gambit's, that's very wide, and then the depth, how good are they at each thing? And Gambit's like, really, he just does everything at a high level, right? So naturally, a character that's gonna be OP, so what you gotta look at is, okay, how do we take away some of the innate.
Death And Gaming (40:40.187)
that's adding more tools to the toolkit. Like that just makes players happy.
Coach Mills (40:42.798)
That's what you're saying is you pick. You pop all and then you pick a card, right? Is what you're saying.
Coach Mills (41:03.405)
Right.
CaptainCoach (41:07.635)
just like raw power that he has and spread it out.
Coach Mills (41:10.542)
So I think that they did this on purpose though. Like I actually wouldn't be surprised if they end up nerfing Gambit. And the reason is because if, like I agree with you, when you give a character a million options and a million things to do, each one of those things needs to be weak, right? Because they just get to do everything. yeah, but the problem is when a character first releases, people don't know how to balance all those options. So if you make them all weak, the initial impression is like, hey, this character kind of sucks until people figure them out.
CaptainCoach (41:23.401)
100%. What's his identity as a hero? Just being OP. That's it. It's just being OP.
Coach Mills (41:38.86)
Now that people have figured him out, I think that they probably will nerf him. Most likely, that's what I'm thinking anyway. Like they start him off overtuned and then they reel back the power of those things. I don't know exactly what they do there, but.
CaptainCoach (41:44.947)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (41:48.839)
They don't want another blade situation, so.
CaptainCoach (41:49.257)
I'll be it. I was interested to hear your thoughts on Blade, exactly. That's exactly what I was gonna ask.
Coach Mills (41:52.022)
Right. That's why I think they released it. And I think they also buffed everything because they were like, we know Gambit's gonna be busted, but we don't want him to be released weak. We're gonna release him busted, but then we're gonna buff all this other stuff too. That's what they, in my opinion, I think that's what they were kind of thinking.
Death And Gaming (42:08.103)
And to be fair, like, for those of who don't know, I've been a 3D artist in the game industry for a really long time. So like, I see behind the scenes, a lot of times people are like, why do the devs not know this? Why do they not understand? It's like, cause their internal play tests are going to be like a hundred people, maybe a few hundred if it's like within the like other studios. Like, and the players that are there are, you know, it's just like everywhere else. Like, there's only going be like one or two percent of the people that are actually really good in the office. So they're not going to understand what's going to happen.
CaptainCoach (42:33.545)
Mm.
Death And Gaming (42:37.253)
they put a character out and they don't know if it's going to be super OP or if it's going to be super weak. Like, you know, they kind of just have to throw it out there because even then sometimes you have this idea where people are like, like when the game launched, people were like, Wolverine is such a terrible hero. Right. And then how long did it take before people were like, we have to permaband this dude every game because he just, he just destroys everyone. Right. Like part of it is player perception and figuring out and understanding, there's these characters actually aren't weak. We just didn't understand how they work before. So I think that's it.
CaptainCoach (42:54.985)
How?
CaptainCoach (43:04.425)
How much do you think a player being OP on release is like the marketing guys coming into the hero development room and being like, we got some pretty good skins coming for this guy. Why you release him a little on the strong side?
Death And Gaming (43:18.663)
I think people put a little too much into the idea that the devs have some sort of secret agenda. They can't see that far ahead. A lot of times, yeah.
Paz (43:19.355)
Hahaha
CaptainCoach (43:33.523)
That's me taking off my tinfoil hat.
Coach Mills (43:34.114)
Yeah, hey, I I I I I Think spider-man kind of breaks it unfortunately the theory because cuz spider spider-man has like so many skins But that character has been consistently asked like if they want to sell a lot of skins They need a buff the hell out of spider-man. So hey next Yeah, got you hook line and sinker they know they know
CaptainCoach (43:37.641)
you
Death And Gaming (43:39.739)
Yeah, they will, I will say that they would probably have it.
Death And Gaming (43:49.07)
Spider-man players will just never stop playing spider-man and they'll just keep buying the skins but like Yeah, I'm sure that they would probably always rather have it be a little bit too strong and tone it back than have it be weak because weak and underwhelming You know, they had that like with blade like torch on release wasn't played a lot I don't remember I don't think and then mr. Fantastic was also kind of like that way So it's like when we get like gambit where he's like slightly over tune like is he strong? Yeah, but I actually don't mind fighting
CaptainCoach (43:49.385)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (44:16.825)
with or against Gambit nearly as much or nearly as bad as fighting against a broken torch or something, right? So there's always gonna be some push and pull, but I will say that after this whole year, comparison to where we were in the beginning, Season 5 has a lot more hero varieties in all of our games than in the earlier seasons where it was like, you have to play these heroes. These are the heroes you have to play and nothing else, and people would flip if you weren't playing the meta.
CaptainCoach (44:23.495)
I agree.
Death And Gaming (44:43.791)
I will say that like, you know, there's definitely some things that I disagree with what NetEase has done and sort of like their balance and design to choices. But there's also been a lot of good stuff too. And, you know, I think that they are kind of figuring that out. And at the very least, they're willing to make a lot of big changes. Coming from Overwatch for eight years where like we just didn't get stuff for a really long time. Like I'm grateful that occasionally like each patch or each season, I'm like, it feels different. So I'll take that.
Coach Mills (45:10.85)
Yeah, I hope we see another massive buff across the board in 5.5 for a whole bunch of characters that kind of got left behind I know that pass is gonna be like no Thor guy, let's go. Come on. Let me let me bro Thor I think Thor a lot in 4.5 I actually put Thor in a tier because I thought he actually caught up in ranked not not in like extra high elo and not in pro play ever but
Paz (45:18.133)
You're saying that because you're a Thor player. You're saying that because you're a Thor player. I get it. I get it. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (45:21.507)
ha, ha.
Paz (45:38.891)
He wasn't terrible.
CaptainCoach (45:39.347)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (45:39.714)
But I thought he was okay. And then they just buffed fucking everything and the characters trash again. Like, like...
CaptainCoach (45:42.865)
Yeah. Characters that are designed to take damage, as their core, like brawling, they're gonna suffer. They're gonna be the first ones to feel the power creep. They're gonna be the first ones to be like, yo, this is way too much damage I'm taking.
Coach Mills (45:55.582)
Like like hey they've reverbed they they reverted Wolverine's like he's basically like prime Wolverine now like basically because they've reverted his his leap cooldown and all that stuff they should just do that with Thor's survivability because he he had he gained like a hundred per dash and then they downed it to 75 and Let's just revert that is he really gonna be meta if they did that they could they could do a pretty substantial buff to Thor We've never been in a Thor meta like can we just like you think so?
CaptainCoach (46:04.137)
Hmm.
CaptainCoach (46:18.633)
I think he would. I think he would. Yeah. I think he would.
Coach Mills (46:23.662)
I think that we can, I think there's a world where, like there's a lot of characters I think that haven't been meta. Like let's buff them. Let's just see what, if you go too far, mean, Silent's been fucking meta for like a million seasons, bro. Just, it's okay. I'm, yeah.
CaptainCoach (46:28.348)
It's this.
Paz (46:34.859)
Thor propaganda. Thor propaganda.
CaptainCoach (46:35.153)
Well, you gotta consider, they balance around console though too, you gotta remember. We talked about that a little bit last week. I don't know how much time we're gonna spend on it this time, but obviously there's two different meadows going on.
Death And Gaming (46:39.356)
Yeah.
Paz (46:42.001)
Wait.
Coach Mills (46:47.606)
I mean, that's true. Thor is going to be better on console, going to be better in low elo too, like the character. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (46:51.377)
And I do think they cater to that a little bit with some of the changes.
Coach Mills (46:55.052)
But why then okay, then why I why they buffed for petty like wait, wait, wait, wait This doesn't make sense because petty is petty has I I did my I did my unranked to celestial on console Penny was a fucking demon on console. I'm telling you that was before the recent buffs So I don't that I don't really get I don't really know console players. Y'all can let us know in the comments down below How's how's penny? How's penny going for y'all? How's that going?
CaptainCoach (47:00.135)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (47:17.065)
Yeah, no, if I'm gonna be honest, I'm gonna cut that. I'm gonna stop that right there. If we spend 30 minutes talking about a season five podcast about Penny, I might actually just like, I might just quit.
Coach Mills (47:23.758)
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, that's the entire, I'm just gonna say Dear Netties. That's the title of this podcast, Dear Netties. But okay, so you did talk about a little bit, Death. I wanna hear from each of y'all. How do you feel about the whole year? Because we're at the anniversary of Rivals. It's been out for a year, y'all been making content, streaming for a year. Let's start off with you, Death. How do you feel about collectively the entire thing?
Death And Gaming (47:24.634)
No.
Paz (47:24.806)
Hahaha
CaptainCoach (47:28.841)
You
Coach Mills (47:49.659)
like and and i would you are you looking forward to the future what would you like to see in the future to me give me thoughts
Death And Gaming (47:55.016)
Yeah, actually overall I think that the game has made steady improvements. There are some things that need work, you know. The matchmaking I always think was a problem due to the fact that ranks were meaningless or didn't hold a consistent meaning which is why matchmaking was so difficult. I think with placements they're gonna like gradually like hopefully improve over time. I think that in terms of not seeing Loki Luna in every single one of my games is a sign of improvement. Like, you the fact that they're willing to make a lot of
big changes over the year has given me some hope at least to see where they go. Because I'd rather have a company willing to test and willing to try things than a company that's just like plays it so safe we just never see any changes at all. And overall I've been enjoying the game a lot and I enjoy all of the roles, you know, and despite the fact that, you know, my heroes that I play sometimes are strong, sometimes they're weak. It doesn't matter. I play what's fun more than anything and I just kind of try to find ways to make it work.
And I've overall been enjoying the game a lot. My biggest issue with rivals isn't anything with the game or even the balance or the matchmaking. It's the players. Like, the players have such a weak mental and give up at the slightest sign of a difficult fight, even in high-yellow games. And to me, I've made it a point to where, I like to try and show that how many games people want to surrender after, like, the first round. And I make it a point to show that I win majority of those games. Like, if players would just...
stop being toxic and stop giving up and stop wanting to be quick to surrender and just play the game. Like the rivals would be a lot better. And I think that they, if they went a little bit harder on like, you know, some of the band system, like I encountered a dude last night where he threw my game after nine wins. He threw my game, whatever it was lost. I had him on the void the rest of the night. Saw him again on the enemy team, like seven games later, he threw the game again. It's just like, why is this guy?
who's making this a pattern, able to do this all the time. Like people like that need to be like not banned for 15 minutes. They need like a week long ban. Like switching to Widow halfway through and just not playing the game. Like I think that NetEase could do better in terms of just like really improving the player base that way. But otherwise, in terms of like the game, I think it's still fun for 99.9 % of players. Like so I still enjoy it. I'm still having fun. But yeah, I know. I'm not super doom and gloom.
Coach Mills (50:20.078)
There's a guy that chronically stream sniping throws Captain Coach's games and he has not been banned permanently ever and he does it publicly. He'll even say it like they don't care and somehow they keep giving us messages about being, you know, they're going to mute us or whatever. I don't understand what the automated detection thing.
Paz (50:24.555)
Holy
CaptainCoach (50:29.086)
No.
You don't even try to hide it.
Death And Gaming (50:33.68)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (50:35.047)
miserable.
CaptainCoach (50:39.251)
There's, I get chat muted all the time. There's multiple people who do that. Yeah, the moderation for the game is just like, say, I've said it's one of the biggest weaknesses.
Death And Gaming (50:45.429)
yeah.
Coach Mills (50:45.632)
It's an auto mod thing, right? I don't know what's going on. Has that happened to you, Paz?
Death And Gaming (50:48.272)
Yeah, even-
Paz (50:51.499)
I mean, personally, I just have voice chat turned off because no one says anything good anyway.
Coach Mills (50:55.678)
Okay, well I was I was calming I was calming that was halos was ulting and I come kill that bitch kill that bitch Let's go. Let's go and I'm like giving calls my team and they they fucking muted me mid game They didn't be mid game and I was like what?
Paz (51:02.57)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (51:03.654)
Bitches.
Yeah, the system auto detects the word bitch. know because I'm positive and all my comms, but I realized that I say, I say, get that bitch. And it's like, Hey, we've detected that you've used a hateful language and I've been, I've been chat muted. I'm the person who's always like, Hey guys, like we can still win this. Like, and I got chat muted.
CaptainCoach (51:10.781)
Yeah.
Paz (51:24.831)
heard way worse by the way and they don't get banned.
Coach Mills (51:26.114)
Yeah, but but some someone can say like I hope you drown and they're they're good like they can just say some crazy shit But it's as long as they don't say bitch that they're fine. All right. Yeah, that's But okay. Okay pass. How do you feel about your review and and things to look forward to? What do you think?
Death And Gaming (51:29.317)
Yeah. Yeah. On a regular basis. Yeah.
Paz (51:31.42)
Ha!
Paz (51:40.205)
man, that's, so yeah, I mean, I would touch on toxicity and like community sentiment, but at the same time, like for me, the day that I just decided, guys, when was the last time someone gave me a good calm chat? Why don't I just turn this off and turn off chat? Life was roses. It was great. I didn't have someone in my, why didn't you all this? Why, why? There's so many things that you could have done better as well, but I don't have to engage, which I mean, that makes my life better. It sucks that in a team game I have to do that. But again, I mean, I engage with the game in a very different way than you guys do.
I mean, for the whole year, mean, Mills, you know, I was very critical of this game at the very start and I still am. And I still have a lot of problems with this game. But I would say now I enjoy the game. With season five coming out, I actually I've said a lot like, wow, I actually enjoy this game a lot more than I did. I think that like this game will never be this like super hardcore competitive hero swapping. Everyone's like doing all this stuff game. Like, I just don't think that's what this game is. And like when I accepted that, I started to enjoy the game a lot more.
and just enjoyed it and I engaged with it in the way that it was meant to be engaged with. I think that's why I'm starting to engage with the game more. Like I could complain all day. Yes, the maps, I don't think the map design is great. I can still enjoy playing Gambit and just like being a dev admin sometimes. I could complain that Gambit on the other team is just completely destroying me and I could keep playing my favorite character or I could be like, if I'm not enjoying my favorite character, maybe I just join them and like I engage with the game better that way and it's just more fun. The other thing too.
is now that I'm getting older and I have more time, like if I want to just have a casual experience, Marvel Rivals is delivering that for me right now. If I want to like hard grind something and be super competitive, Deadlock around the corner is that is that. If you want to play that game casually, you will hate yourself. But like there's other games now in the market too, where there's like so many different niches. And I'm so happy that now we finally have this game that can just be like, you can take it seriously if you want. I mean, you can take any casual game seriously, but like it is just fun. At the end of the day.
Coach Mills (53:21.85)
You
CaptainCoach (53:22.195)
Yeah.
Paz (53:37.002)
play your favorite superhero and like I can enjoy that at like a low level and it's fine. I mean, I do think there's a lot of things that could be changed, but like I'm not a big enough like voice in the community that could really change anything to be honest. So I'm just going to enjoy it the best way I can. I mean, if I were to change a lot of things, I mean, I don't even know.
CaptainCoach (53:50.749)
You're on ClearCom's podcast. Damn right you can.
Coach Mills (53:52.77)
Yeah
Who we deleting? Who we deleting for the game? Be honest. What character? Who we deleting?
Paz (54:00.263)
There's so many there's so many issues though that like the games the games cooked like in that regard So I just enjoy it like even with neutral and everything that we could talk about if you want to have more neutral in this game What is the neutral? I don't know what the neutral is so you'd have to change the whole idea of the game It's like there's there's a lot of problems, right? There's a lot of problems I could complain about but they're never gonna change because Marvel Rivals is Marvel Rivals and I'm gonna enjoy it for what it is and I'm not gonna lie I enjoy it for what it is and I have a much easier time doing that now than I did
Coach Mills (54:13.73)
feel like only Hela gets the neutral. She's the only character in the fucking game that gets the neutral. It's literally just Hela. It's just Hela. That's it.
CaptainCoach (54:24.072)
Yeah.
Paz (54:29.65)
a year ago when I first started playing. And I think that's good for me.
Coach Mills (54:31.697)
Yeah, it's I've been seeing it because I've been seeing a lot of players like I think light just put out a video where he's talking about the state of the game and he's really down on the game as like as a Spider-Man player and a melee player and I think that a lot of players that kind of see the game and they want it to be something better. think some people the same way they want it to be something better. They want it to change in the way that they imagine and then they'd be happy with it like you could be like that and think about the game that way. But I think you're just going to be unhappy for a long time.
Paz (54:59.85)
It's just not what the game is.
Coach Mills (55:00.462)
If you just accept the game for what it is and try to enjoy it for what it is, I 100 % I think that's the better mentality to have and you're gonna have a much better time And if you get... And if you get burnt out of the game, just take a break, play something else There's a lot of other games I've been playing some Ark Raiders lately That shit's fun But you know...
Paz (55:08.68)
Yeah. I've seen Light on Deadlock, by the way, and he loves that. He loves it.
Paz (55:17.202)
Exactly! There's so many games right now. I've seen you on your grind and I respect it. It's fun.
Coach Mills (55:26.638)
Not every game that you play is necessarily like morphed into something completely different. do think that, you know, the consistent delivering of characters is just something to be absolutely commended. No other game has ever fucking done this that is like a triple A title, like a real title. Now I'm not talking about like a mobile game or anything like that, but like no real competitive multiplayer game has ever delivered consistent content at this scale.
Paz (55:36.18)
So peak.
Paz (55:53.898)
It works, by the way. Day one, the servers don't blow up. I can play the character. I can play the game.
Coach Mills (55:55.82)
Yeah. Like, like they made they made fucking Gambit in a month. I mean, like they released a bit of but they just released a character like that's insane. That character isn't I mean, he feels like they just did Daredevil that character field. It's sick. The voice actor was like, I just think they are delivering on like, like, like if you if you upset the game for what it is, they are delivering. I will do I will say, though, that that toxicity, the toxicity and stuff like that, like normally doesn't get to me. I
Paz (56:22.974)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (56:25.526)
I normally play in the mornings. I normally play like Monday through Thursday in the mornings and I think game quality is really great. Maybe it's because people are in school or whatever. If you play in the mornings, it's great. I played, I decided to play a couple of games with Cap and a couple of games with Death over the Thanksgiving break and I played 10 games and like at least four of them were literally over before the game started. And then I played on stream the other day and it felt like most of the games that I won were games I won.
CaptainCoach (56:38.748)
Ugh... Yeah...
Paz (56:40.648)
Horrible, actually for me too.
Coach Mills (56:54.574)
I didn't do anything. It was like they self-destructed because someone just started crying and they were typing to everybody and then vice versa. It's like I think that those there needs to be more games that actually matter. Like I just think that there needs to be more games that actually matter but
CaptainCoach (57:00.126)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (57:07.689)
All right, I'd like to step in here. So I think a big reason you're seeing not only the game quality individually seem to maybe go down a little bit, more, you know, is it the players or like how hard the game is versus like how the community acts? I don't think the game really sets their community up to succeed from like a behavior standpoint. Because if you have these broken characters, right?
I think the game is more in balance than it has ever been. Like I don't even think it's close. So if you have these tools for people through their pretty flimsy rank system to be able to just climb up to any rank easily, they're going to be in a rank where they probably don't belong. And if everything's broken and anyone can just abuse something, I think you're gonna get a lot of this just like really, really just win or lose type game. Like they don't get what they play, you're probably just gonna lose, because they abuse whatever.
Gambit or whoever to get to that rank. So you're have a lot of this like people being, the rank system is gonna be too chaotic if there's just, if the game doesn't have a certain level of balance to it. I think the game is not in a good spot right now. That's my opinion on it. I still think it's fun and I'm unfortunately having to start starting to take more of like a casual mindset like you guys, cause it just sucks. Like I just feel like I don't have the same amount of impact to like affect the outcome of a game as other people do. just.
Paz (58:29.749)
Yeah. I don't blame you. I don't blame you either with like my takes of like, I enjoy the game more casually, like because I used to be a player like that that would take it super seriously. And then like with Overwatch and then like it just got so exhausting and like they should do better. I'm not saying they shouldn't as well. Like I do definitely agree with you as well. Like I don't want to make I want to make sure that like when I say like, I'm enjoying it just because other people aren't like I still agree with you. Like there should be change. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (58:33.094)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (58:43.131)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (58:53.97)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (58:55.719)
There's valid criticisms, yeah.
Coach Mills (58:56.726)
Yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (58:57.033)
It's fun. I enjoy playing the game. It's just like, I wish it was just a little more balanced, just a little bit more.
Paz (59:02.623)
Yep, I agree.
Death And Gaming (59:02.832)
I think.
Coach Mills (59:03.234)
Yeah, it's a little tricky, I think, because when I think of balance standards, there's a relationship between competitive, how competitive a game is, and the balance level. think Rivals is kind of all in on just trying to stimulate you, be as fun and dynamic and different as possible, there's no balance as a complete afterthought. But then when I think of games that are more hyper...
Paz (59:21.395)
Yes.
CaptainCoach (59:21.961)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (59:30.764)
balance, like I think Valor is far more on the other side of the spectrum, where it's like much more hyper competitive. At least historically, it's been much more competitive. I do think that there is a bit of staleness that can happen when the game's too hyper competitive. like, because what they could have done is instead of doing these big dramatic changes, they could have slowly nickel and dime shifted characters. Right. And like we eventually get into a state where there's a lot of characters that are viable and things feel more balanced. But is that interesting? Is that fun? And also, is it even
Death And Gaming (59:43.91)
balance.
CaptainCoach (59:58.558)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:00:00.174)
possible to make the game stay in a balanced state when you're adding a new character every single month. the character either doesn't matter and it's irrelevant and then it doesn't affect anything or it's fucking super broken and it messes up everything. Like it's one of the two, right? And I honestly think that it's just hard. I just think it's hard. I think that their solution for like the pro scene and stuff like that is that's why there's all these bands, like so much bands and like the pick and ban stuff.
CaptainCoach (01:00:27.518)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:00:29.194)
I honestly think that I would enjoy this game a lot more and what I want to do going forward is actually play a lot more coordinated games like go play in tournaments and you know do MRC and I think that that's something we probably should all do more because I think it's just a much more fun way to enjoy this game I think if you're take it seriously take it seriously playing the characters you want to play everyone's working together communicating I think that's all good
CaptainCoach (01:00:37.929)
100%.
Death And Gaming (01:00:51.589)
Yeah, when I'm playing in high ELO games, like it was last season, I had a positive win rate the entire way through. And I could have kept playing and I did want to reach new peaks. But like I said, because high ELO games, get the certain talks of people where I've learned now at certain times of the day, if I bump into someone, I'm just hopping off the rest of the night because I just don't want to bump into them again. It's not worth it. But when you get those games in high ELO where people are calming,
Coach Mills (01:01:14.712)
Ha ha!
Paz (01:01:16.329)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:01:20.399)
You have, it's a close game, you're going back and forth, everyone's fighting real well, and like, you lose, but it was a close ass game. That was a fun game. And those games are great, especially in high elo where everyone is on top of what they're doing. And it's just a good game all around. But then, you know, you have those other games where people are just super toxic. You're just trying to focus and it's it's just miserable. So it's very like, it's polarizing. Whereas I've got friends who aren't as good as the game.
aren't as good at the game as I am, and I'll do it with them, and it's harder to climb up in ranks, but I would rather play with my friends and lose in low elo than play in high elo with players that I'm used to because of the fact that some people can just sort of like make the experience miserable. Because I really do believe that the game can and is fun. It's just sort of like, I think Marvel Rivals especially, there's a lot more team-
coordination and work that's needed, especially with like how high sustain is and you know, with how powerful certain ultimates are to combine. Like there is definitely an emphasis on how you should work together with your team, but there are a lot of players who are too selfish and have too big egos that won't allow them to do that. And that's the part where it just conflicts with like, you know, how fun it can get as you climb higher.
Paz (01:02:19.454)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (01:02:30.462)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:02:34.738)
It's
It's criminal that there's not at least like three or four stack in Celestial Plus. I can't believe they did that, honestly. I think that was one of the worst changes to the game.
Death And Gaming (01:02:44.143)
Yeah, if I had at least three seconds less shield at least that would make it a little better. I can understand maybe you get to attorney then you can lower it down to duo or something but yeah the fact that like I can only like duo with one other person so that way I know like okay like two of us aren't gonna be you know miserable in this game but there's still four chances there that I'm not comfortable with.
Coach Mills (01:03:04.534)
I think for a fun, especially when the game isn't trying to be ultra competitive, I think they could probably allow three stacks in Celestial. I do remember back in Overwatch it was a big deal when there was like the number one pro team was in a three stack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, but that's cool. Like, yeah, those are more higher quality games. You might be getting shit on, but they're higher. Like, that's kind of like when we played MRC. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:03:04.998)
Yeah.
Paz (01:03:14.231)
Dude, the OWL stacks and I'm with my tier 3 boys? But those games were still sick by the way, I was never complaining!
Death And Gaming (01:03:16.496)
Yeah.
Paz (01:03:24.031)
Yeah.
Now when you win though with the East Coast stack, you got Silvak on Torb, you got someone on Sam and you just beat an Overwatch League stack, that was the peak, peak experience.
Death And Gaming (01:03:33.702)
That's fun.
Coach Mills (01:03:34.126)
yeah, and I think like like an MRC when you go up against like a like a semi protein or a protein like that's like that you lose but it's fun like it's I think it's I think it's It's a good learning experience, too. I think that yeah
Paz (01:03:40.447)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:03:47.731)
Well, it also, so you have your three people in the game, the three that are randos, a lot of times they'll tend to lock in, like just with a more stable team environment and people like calming and like if you're serious about trying to like do your strategies, the randos you have are gonna generally try to do them too. So the game quality goes up like way more than it should. It's so much nicer.
Coach Mills (01:04:04.386)
Yeah, the...
Paz (01:04:07.348)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:04:11.362)
Yeah. I think the games where there's two people actually calming about what's going on versus the games where either no one talks or the only thing that people say is negative are just like night and day games. Like they're just completely different.
Death And Gaming (01:04:22.437)
Yeah, it's very, very different.
CaptainCoach (01:04:25.065)
yeah, entire characters, like heroes, become viable or not.
Coach Mills (01:04:28.046)
But for some reason when I fucking give comms in a game I'm being punished for saying bitch I'm gonna stop talking about that. But like why not like encourage? Encourage! Yeah, no fuck! It's muted, it muted you. Auto muted fuck. Ah dude, I think that that uh, maybe some like, let them vote for shotcaller bro. Give people some type of benefit for communicating more, I don't know. But yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:04:32.551)
Valid though.
CaptainCoach (01:04:33.193)
You're being a little bitch coach Mills.
Paz (01:04:37.972)
Haha
CaptainCoach (01:04:40.115)
You
Death And Gaming (01:04:53.223)
There's definitely a power to like, you know, how important shot calling is. And I say this as someone when I was playing strategist last season, strategist support players make the best shot callers because you see everything and you're able to sort of also track the ultimates better. You're communicating to your other support like who's going to ult first. Like communication as you climb through the ranks is so important and it makes it such a dynamic like difference there. So a lot of times people are like, oh well,
Supports the easiest role in the game, because like mechanically it's easier to heal than it is to do damage, which is true, but that's like, that's not all that they do. I have always said that like strategists make the best shot callers because if you want to have good game sense, yeah, if you have good game sense and you can say, Hey, back up stabilized, we're all critical. Okay. Push back in. Oh, there's somebody over there on the left. Like that's a skill that should be encouraged. But a lot of times, like, like I said, I was about to quit after playing support because
Coach Mills (01:05:33.208)
They should talk more.
Death And Gaming (01:05:48.826)
I get harassed where I'm like, Hey, we're down by two. Everyone back up and stabilize. And my Bucky decides to go in dies and then spam pings me for heels after he's dead. And I'm like, I was getting dove by two people and I was reloading. Like that one's on you. And I see another ping. like, I'm muting your pings. You're done. Like it's yeah. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not dealing with this anymore. Like we, that's why I always tell it even like the people in my community, like just, just focus on the game, right? Like focus on the game. People make mistakes. We all mess up.
CaptainCoach (01:05:56.137)
You
Coach Mills (01:05:56.706)
The heheheheh
Coach Mills (01:06:04.746)
Yeah
Paz (01:06:04.756)
Nope, you're not Saipa, GG. No heels.
CaptainCoach (01:06:06.345)
Mm.
Death And Gaming (01:06:17.787)
Just focus on the game, what you need to do next. Okay, you guys made a mistake? Whatever, move on to the next one. What do you need to do? Okay, group up, take, you know, DPS, take your angles, tank hold space, like just focus on the game because it gets a lot more fun that way. And when you have those games where everyone's calming and everyone's trying, like it is a great experience. And that's reason why I love playing Marvel rivals. but yeah, there's definitely just some like real high highs, but real low lows with the game as well. But, also I did want to say to the credit of the devs being able to.
Implement as many heroes as they do and shift up things as they do like is super impressive knowing how much work behind the scenes goes into these things Like they they do a phenomenal job at giving us a lot of content that might not be perfect looking all the time or perfect in on its release But it does make the game really fun. Like I really like the zombies though Hmm Yeah, one's solid metal, yeah
CaptainCoach (01:07:07.59)
Is that a real vibranium shield to your right there?
Coach Mills (01:07:13.453)
Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:07:14.939)
Cab is my favorite Marvel hero, so.
CaptainCoach (01:07:15.111)
yeah? I was gonna say you kind of remind me of him a little bit with how you talk about like, I want everyone to be nice and people need to like go in.
Coach Mills (01:07:22.146)
Hehehehe
Death And Gaming (01:07:22.459)
Yeah. Like I understand. I tell people I'm like, listen, there's times where I crash out at my desk all the time, but I just don't say anything. Like I just, I keep myself muted. keep it to myself. Like I get frustrated too at my teammates all the time, but it doesn't help.
Coach Mills (01:07:35.468)
Yeah, okay captain coach I know people say that you and I are like two sides of a different coin like you're the crash out on the calm Death is actually your opposite like y'all are actually opposites. I'm not actually your opposite. He's definitely your opposite
CaptainCoach (01:07:44.652)
I-
Death And Gaming (01:07:45.201)
Hehehehe
CaptainCoach (01:07:47.401)
Like I have death I've literally agree with every single thing you have said so far today like there's no one who I I feel like has a more similar view of the game than you do to me like I Everything you've you said is just like hitting home for me like hundred percent. So you think we're opposites?
Death And Gaming (01:07:51.855)
Hehehehe
Coach Mills (01:07:56.929)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:08:00.529)
Well, that's why I remember.
Coach Mills (01:08:03.71)
Well, I'm just saying as far as like hot and cold like like fire and ice like like like crash out and not crash out like Like you're the devil on his shoulder, you know when he he he doesn't flame but you would flame, you know, but okay So I we're gonna wrap things up, but I want to get real quick Y'all can just kind of spit it out one thing you want from the game for the next year Just one major thing one big change anything you want new character. It could be anything. What do y'all want? So just if you could
CaptainCoach (01:08:06.328)
sure, sure.
Death And Gaming (01:08:07.409)
Yeah.
Paz (01:08:08.607)
Yeah
CaptainCoach (01:08:09.971)
Cool. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:08:12.911)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:08:15.514)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:08:28.807)
I'll go, I can go first to give you guys a little time to think. dude, 18 versus 18 mode? Big W. Shame we didn't get to talk about it too much, but I actually really like the 18 versus, it's really fun. It...
Coach Mills (01:08:38.414)
I haven't actually tried it yet, but if you're trying to run, if you're trying to run Captain Coach Community versus Coach Mills Community, 18 versus 18, let's fucking go! That actually sounds super, wait, we actually should, I'll write that shit down. That actually would be super fun.
Death And Gaming (01:08:39.783)
I haven't tried it either, actually.
Paz (01:08:40.554)
Same.
CaptainCoach (01:08:44.931)
I'm so down actually, wait, that's an insane idea. Let's set that up. We'll get everybody involved. Let's do this. Wait, that's a great idea. No, no, so I've been at the start. It's a great warmup on Hulk, right? At the start of every stream now. Instant queue, it's five, you get in, it's five minutes. It's such constant fighting. You get put in all these different situations. It's great practice, like positioning, finding your healers. It's chaotic.
Death And Gaming (01:09:02.887)
That's a good idea,
CaptainCoach (01:09:12.603)
It's, I've gotten really good at it I got an MVP top damage as Hulk in it, bro. As Hulk. MVP top damage as Hulk with 36 people. So it's like, it's fun. It's really good practice. Beating Moon Knight, speeding, it's, YouTube captain coach, video coming soon, you know, but yeah, so I want to see maybe like,
Coach Mills (01:09:16.686)
Yeah, let's go.
Paz (01:09:18.282)
That's different, that's Yeah, that's insane. Beating a moon knight in 18v18 is crazy.
Coach Mills (01:09:21.901)
Heh.
Coach Mills (01:09:25.486)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no jokes for him to spam, man, not scared, I don't know. Yeah, let's go. Oh.
Paz (01:09:29.428)
Yeah.
Paz (01:09:34.088)
Alright, alright.
CaptainCoach (01:09:39.377)
Yeah, like more game modes. to me, what keeps me around with Marvel Rivals is the combat. It's just so fun. It's just fast. It's engaging. It's simple enough to where anyone can kind of just the actual playing the character heroes is the most fun part about this game. So I want to see them expand. I think this is going to be a hot take.
I don't really like the game modes in hero shooters, if I'm being honest. There's better game modes out there. I would prefer, if you're gonna have people fight against each other, just have it be one life death match in a smaller map, like an arena. That'd be way more intense, right? But the heroes probably aren't balanced for that kind of thing. So yeah, I'm open to maybe seeing a capture the flag game mode, right? Because the mobility characters in this game all suck. What are all the most mobile characters? Spider-Man, not Meta.
Coach Mills (01:10:22.913)
that would be sick actually.
CaptainCoach (01:10:30.291)
Well, mean, not great, but Hulk is not meta. Cap's pretty good, but just to see characters being utilized in different ways. So I think the 18 versus 18 mode's big W. I miss the TFT mode. I also like that game mode a lot. I really like the secondary game modes they make. They're actually pretty good. So I want to see maybe a competitive version of something. Something that could be brought into ranks.
Coach Mills (01:10:54.456)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
CaptainCoach (01:10:59.357)
I normally give our- we normally give our heroes like what heroes we want to see guys So if you wanted to do that too, but for me, it's gonna be the game modes
Coach Mills (01:11:02.732)
Yeah, yeah. I'll kind of play off that. So I had probably like 6,000, maybe 8,000 hours in Overwatch. I had a lot of hours, but at least a thousand of those hours were in this little game mode called try hard free for all. Those who know, know. And it was basically free for all where they stripped away ultimates, except for the skillful ones. A lot of abilities, they removed the non-skill ones. And so you could go in and practice your duels.
Paz (01:11:11.412)
Yo, man.
Paz (01:11:16.242)
Yes, sir! Please!
CaptainCoach (01:11:16.745)
Mmm. Yeah, I don't know what this is.
Coach Mills (01:11:29.09)
with just the raw, like a lot of mechanical based characters and you could fight in there and it was super fun because you could be a plat player, go play Tryhard Fruit for All and there'd be like three top 500 players in there just randomly like dueling and you're just like, you're practicing Tracer duels and game just blows and it was just, yeah, it was the place to be. And so there is Doom match, but there's a lot of nonsense. There's a lot of pennies just camping, there's a lot of people just staying around. So I would love to see maybe something that incentivizes winning, maybe.
Paz (01:11:39.946)
Dude, the amount of pros before scrims, hop on Tryhard FFA. Yes.
CaptainCoach (01:11:44.775)
I think I've seen that actually, yeah.
Paz (01:11:49.833)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:11:58.042)
or enough wins or something so people can farm out wins and then you just put it in. So you put it like Bucky in there, but you remove some things, maybe remove his ultimate, you remove aspects of him, you take other characters and it's just like a raw mechanical fest. There's Hela, there's Sai, no Hela ultimate, no Sai ultimate. It's just like people are fighting, people are raw. I think that that would be extremely fun. Maybe adding a new map in there too. You could even add a ranked version where like top four people get to rank up and then it gets super competitive.
Because there was a ranked like deathmatch. So that's what I would want I would fucking spend all my hours in there and I feel like my mechanics are like there was only one time in my life where I felt like my mechanics were legitimately like Top tier like you compete with the best of them and it was when I was fucking grinding try free for all every day in Overwatch and I just felt fucking and so you just got so many repetitions you get to duel you get to 1v1 Tracer duel like a pro player like over and over again just randomly it was so good. So that's what I want
Death And Gaming (01:12:53.383)
would love that, honestly. As someone who's got weak mechanics, I would love an opportunity to go up against better players. Because a lot of times people are like, oh, this person's on the enemy team, it's GG. I'm like, no, this is the best challenge ever. Now it's the time to test your skills. So I would love an opportunity to play against better players like that.
Coach Mills (01:13:10.222)
Yeah, no, it was sick. what do y'all think? Have y'all thought of one thing you would add in this next year? You had one thing that y'all could, or it could be a balance change, it could be anything. Anything you want, new character, new mode, new map. Okay, well, what's your one?
Paz (01:13:23.626)
I I definitely have one. definitely do. Especially since we talked a lot about neutral. I think, I I watched that Seminole podcast and I actually agreed with a decent amount of what he said. I think neutral in a game like a hero shooter lives and dies by how OP your support alts are. And like as much as Gambit is really strong and his ultimate feels horrible to play against, it is the first support ultimate where if I press Q first, I will pretty much win the fight. Like I can take a lot of initiative. It forces me on support to be very active.
have damage boost. Like I have to, I have to do damage to out, to outperform the other guy. Like Moira, for example, in Overwatch. Like I was trying to maximize how much Ultrash I got because if I got Coalescence first, I got to set the tempo. A lot of support ults, it feels like I get it and then I'm just sitting and waiting for Psylocke to ult. And I think that is so boring, but that's why I love Gambit because he can be very like active and it forces us to like actually like take initiative. And that's why I love this, but he's a little OP. I just want to see more of like
Gameplay mechanics for supports that is more active nano boost type of things here go out Which is what gamut is things that are more like I have to actually do things and like I'm Constantly like trying to click my neutral better so I can just get my alt faster Like that if I can just have more of that the game feels so much better, but at the same time. It's very difficult to balance I Mean if I could if I could I would
Coach Mills (01:14:41.998)
I can see that. Give me Bucky Nano. Come on, let's go.
Death And Gaming (01:14:45.447)
Yeah. Well, like that's, that's why like last season I played primarily rocket and people were like, why rocket? I'm like, cause this is all gets kills. you know, Luna, Invis, Cloak and Dagger, those ults are for people who are bad at the game, who needs something to bail them out of their dumb decisions. Right. But if I rocket ult, and I understand that if I see someone overextend, I'm like, oh, if I rocket ult, they die. And even if they burn the amp, as long as that person dies, six v five high elo, we're going to win. And then also at the same time.
Paz (01:15:11.422)
Yes. Love it.
Death And Gaming (01:15:15.099)
You know, I see someone get a pick. I'm like, there's five people up. If I rocket alt right now, we're going to wipe the other five, stagger them even harder. And then by the time that they fully regroup, I'm already 60 % to my next ultimate again. Like I love the playmaking ultimates because now I get to control that temple. Like you said, I'm setting the pace of the game and I have more control rather than just play denying. Cause like Luna alt, you know, is really powerful. Invisal is really powerful, but if they alt late and someone dies, then
Paz (01:15:25.599)
Yes.
Death And Gaming (01:15:44.326)
that all of sudden gets a whole lot less value because it's all about keeping people alive and once you keep people alive then you got to get kills in it. But if you all late and you're in a 5v6 already if your team the enemy team just stabilizes and waits it out then you're just going to lose that fight. But with the support ults that do damage and allow you to make those plays it puts more control into the support's hands as well where it's like I don't have to rely on strictly my DPS to get kills I have an opportunity here which I can secure something myself and make a play and that is my next thing. Yes.
Paz (01:16:09.661)
Yeah, it makes better support players too, by the way. And it makes things way more interactive and the neutral starts to matter more. And it just feels so much better from a support perspective. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:16:15.035)
Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. It's not just about play denial, it's about playmaking.
Coach Mills (01:16:20.878)
So, more Gambit, Jeff, and Rocket, and then less Luna, Invis. very, very reactive. Hyper-reactivity, yeah, just seems... Yeah, right. Okay.
Paz (01:16:27.091)
Things that, if I get it first, it feels so good. Luna, it's the same way, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't feel as... It's difficult to explain.
Death And Gaming (01:16:28.955)
Yeah. Yeah.
Paz (01:16:38.577)
Yeah, like I don't think a transcendent should last 12 seconds for a whole year. I don't know.
Death And Gaming (01:16:42.927)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've always said there's like three types of ways to design an ability. There's the proactive ability, you know, using something offensively. There's predicting an ability, know, shields, bubbles, stuff like that. And then there's like the reactive. Reactive is like Suzu from Overwatch. It's the least interactive, it's dumb, it's lame. It's like, you press a button, then I press a button afterwards. That's what Luna Ult was. Like the first two...
you know, proactive abilities and predictive abilities feel a lot more like you outplayed the person than it was just like, I pressed a button, then you pressed a button afterwards. you know.
CaptainCoach (01:17:17.735)
You don't think Gambit CC break? I mean, that's pretty cool reactive ability, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:17:22.245)
No, that's, that's a good one because also though it's a, it's a high cost to using his cards, right? Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:17:26.472)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:17:27.154)
Because it is actually kind of predictive, right? Because you have to, can't hold, can't, there's a cost. There's a cost to hold the cards, yeah.
Paz (01:17:30.365)
You have to be tunnel visioning the fact that he has that alt and then I have to actually dodge the alt. To be fair, is still a little like I'm not saying he's like not Opie. Like he definitely needs some changes, but like it feels. It just feels better from a supports perspective and like I feel like I have a lot more gambits that lose me games than I have like invasives or lunas that lost me games before. Like I just like that it demands more out of me as a player and it just feels like the neutral starts to matter more. And maybe I'm still wrong. Yeah, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:17:55.196)
You have to think a lot more about it too and plan ahead. Like, yeah. Yeah. I, I agree.
CaptainCoach (01:17:57.541)
Yeah. that to something maybe like an invisible pull push. Like that could be reactive, proactive. That could be like all of it, right? So it's like those are like the best types of abilities. And I think they should really try to put more. But it's just, you gotta be careful just letting every character do one thing. Cause I think there needs to be a bit of parity in between each hero.
Death And Gaming (01:18:07.537)
It could be all things, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:18:07.757)
Yeah.
Paz (01:18:08.466)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:18:11.416)
I actually like, yeah, that's a good point.
Paz (01:18:19.593)
Oh yeah, there's definitely like a lot of, I'm not a dev. It's just like, like you're on a hundred percent correct. Yeah, I agree with you.
Coach Mills (01:18:23.33)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
But yeah, definitely, you're the last one up. What do you think? What do you think? You're gonna wrap it up for us. What do you think is the thing that you want for the next year? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:18:34.791)
Can I say a few things, but they all be pretty quick. Remove performance basis are incentivize people to peel incentivize people to, you know, destroy clones, destroy squids, destroy penny nests, you know, stall the convoy out incentivize team play and not just doing a bunch of mindless damage in order to get MVP because people go into Reddit being like, why didn't I win these games as MVP SVP the whole way down? It's like, because you're not playing for your team, you're playing for yourself. The other thing I agree with, like what Samito and other people have said.
Coach Mills (01:18:42.167)
Agreed.
Death And Gaming (01:19:03.451)
The neutral game should matter more. Tone down support and DPS ultimates across the board, know, incentivize like more of the neutral gameplay to allow more skill expression. And like, I would say global alt nerf across the board, 20 % like Overwatch did, that actually made the game feel really good. I think that's a great idea for them to do because alt charge happens really fast in high elo, like you get them quick. And like, we all know that Moon Knight that got an alt in 25 seconds. Like that, you know, it's insane sometimes.
Coach Mills (01:19:30.584)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:19:33.276)
And the third one, the one that I really like, what they did with the, what's the lobby, the new lobby, the city called, I forget. Times Square. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Times Square, the zombie mode, you know, 18 versus 18. It feels like what these guys, what Nettys is doing is what you would have in like the game industry is like a game jam where, you know, a few people, teams would get together and they're like, come up with something over, you know, a few days, right? And they just prototype something out.
Coach Mills (01:19:43.419)
yeah, yeah, the... Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:19:43.678)
Times square.
Paz (01:19:44.764)
Square yeah
Death And Gaming (01:20:03.239)
And it just feels like that. feels like they're just like, everyone just prototyped a bunch of random ideas and just like, wow, this is a really good one. Like, let's go with this. And it didn't have to be perfect. Like zombies wasn't the most like artistically amazing thing. A lot of it was like, you know, repeat zombies, whatever, but it was a fun game mode for Halloween and all of these different modes that they're adding and the time square. It's actually really making the game feel a lot more interesting, a lot more fun and gives you a great way to do something with friends that
You know, when you're burnt out on, you know, playing too much ranked or whatever, like it's fun to just sort of go into these tiny little areas and explore and move around and like you're still, you know, exploring Times Square, even though it's a small little area, but as your favorite heroes is fun. People are getting silly and wacky in there. It's cool to see the trailers and stuff. Like I think those little things like that where it's not about, you know, trying to make the most perfect balanced game, but just being like, what's fun and just adding it to the game. I love that they're doing those types of things and I want to see more of it, honestly.
CaptainCoach (01:20:58.888)
Hell yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:20:59.131)
But yeah, I think that's pretty much it for me.
Coach Mills (01:21:00.867)
Yeah, yeah. All right. Well sounds good. All right. Well, thank you guys for coming by. Let them know where to find you. Where can people find y'all?
Death And Gaming (01:21:10.343)
I am death and gaming on YouTube. You can find me death underscore and underscore gaming on Twitch I do a lot of educational rivals content stream on YouTube and twitch here and there and yeah, you ever have any questions on You know the macro strategy of the game then you know, feel free to head on by and ask some questions But yeah, that's that's it for me
Paz (01:21:29.509)
And then you can find me on Pazswagger on Twitch, Paz on YouTube. I do a lot of bronze gems on all the characters. If there's a character that you want to learn, I've probably done it and I probably have a guide for it. Yeah, I haven't done Thor. It's Thor, BP, Spider-Man, Scarlet. Those are the only ones I haven't done yet, but I'm getting done those soon. Scarlet Witch is, she's going to be so fun, guys. I swear I love Scarlet Witch, but no, I mean.
Coach Mills (01:21:39.15)
Except for Thor, he hasn't done Thor yet. Keep bothering him about it. Tell him to play Thor already.
Coach Mills (01:21:48.108)
You can skip Scarlet. Just kidding.
Death And Gaming (01:21:53.765)
You gotta do it before the strange team up leaves.
Coach Mills (01:21:53.784)
Yeah.
Paz (01:21:56.529)
I have, you're right. I have some, I have to catch up, but yeah, like once I'm done with all those, then maybe you'll actually see me in ranked games with some of these guys too, because I'll be getting back on my main as well. So yeah, thanks for having me guys.
Coach Mills (01:22:04.76)
Let's go. All right, well, thanks for coming by. Peace, peace. See you.
CaptainCoach (01:22:05.342)
Hell yeah.
Yeah.