Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this episode, I had the pleasure of hosting Kris Hughes, the visionary founder behind Zanate Ventures, as we delve into his remarkable journey into entrepreneurship. Join us as we explore the pivotal moment that led Kris to take the leap, unravel his thought process behind choosing the right business, and discover how he embraced the art of intentional pivots. We delve into the transformative power of reflection and introspection, and gain insights into the most fulfilling aspects of Kris' journey. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or simply seeking inspiration, this episode is a goldmine of wisdom and practical advice. Thank you for tuning in, and I hope you find this episode both informative and inspiring.
Where to find Kris
- (00:00) - Intro
- (02:29) - Keep Choppin' - Unveiling the Life Motto that Drives Kris' Success
- (05:11) - Zanate Ventures: From Concept to Reality
- (06:44) - Entrepreneurship: Betting On Yourself And Choosing the Road Less Traveled
- (10:59) - Pivoting with Purpose: Embracing Change and Growing Stronger
- (13:07) - Turning Rejection into Resilience
- (14:48) - Minimizing Your Dependency on Social Media to Grow Your Business
- (20:35) - Unveiling the Fulfillment Equation: What Makes Kris' Business Truly Rewarding
- (23:32) - Rapid Fire Closing
- (29:26) - Kris' Advice to Those Figuring it Out
Where to find Kris
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/krishughes/
- Zanate Ventures: https://zanateventures.com/
- The Write Angle Newsletter: https://thewriteangle.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Where to find Cesar
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/iamcesarromero
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamcesarromero/
Creators & Guests
What is Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories?
The lack of diversity in tech can lead to imposter syndrome, bias, and a sense of isolation that hinders your growth and ambition.
Welcome to 'Beyond The Job Title Podcast,' where we shine a spotlight on the journeys of underrepresented tech professionals and allies within the SaaS industry.
Join us as we delve into the personal development and career insights that have fueled their success.
Discover the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones.
Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.
Tune in to gain valuable insights, build your network, and navigate your tech career journey with confidence.
Subscribe now and take the next step toward your own success in the world of tech.
Ready to connect and go beyond the title?
Join the community and be one of the first to know when new episodes drop.
Subscribe: https://www.beyondthejobtitle.com/subscribe
[00:00:00] Kris: Um, yeah, you will pivot. I'm not gonna sit here and say, you may pivot. You will pivot. Yeah. I mean, the, the first few inter iterations of, of whatever you have in mind may work that may not work. If, if the first one works, you're a unicorn. Uh, I don't know of of anybody that like blasted out of the box with an idea and it.
[00:00:17] Worked and became their long-term business. I mean, everybody I know in the, in the entrepreneurship world and the, and the people that I've, you know, kind of communicated with and networked with, have all had that moment of pivots. So just, just be aware that you'll pivot. There's gonna be iterations. Get comfortable with that.
[00:00:33] Hey friends, this is her house since. Romero. And you're listening to beyond the job title podcast, the show that explores the human experiences to shape our professional and personal lives. My guest for this episode is Chris Hughes, the founder of Sonata ventures, and we discuss his journey [00:01:00] into entrepreneurship. The fork on the road that led him to take the leap. How he decided what business to start. Getting comfortable with making pivots. Learning from, from projection and introspection.
[00:01:14] And the most fulfilling aspects of Chris's business. So if you're someone that is looking to make the leap into entrepreneurship, I think this episode might be for you. Thanks so much for joining and I hope you enjoyed this episode.
[00:01:31] Cesar: Chris, thanks so much for coming on the show. And I wanted to start with when, when I used to work in tourism and, and travel. You can plan for it, you can have the itinerary, you can have everything lined up, but just because of the nature of the business, things can go wrong, right?
[00:01:52] So my first trip, uh, something went wrong and I came up with the phrase, [00:02:00] Hey guys. It's all about the experience as a way, as a way to lessen the blow, right? Of, Hey, you know, this was not part of the itinerary, or this was not planned, and I wanted to ask you, where does your phrase come, you know, keep chopping, you know, and I, I know you, you shared a story when we met a at a coffee shop here in Austin, and I thought, you know, that was, that was cool.
[00:02:20] So, uh, yeah, I would love to ask you. About that and, and from a branding perspective, you know, why do you think it's important to have, uh, you know, something that helps you stand out?
[00:02:29] Kris: For sure. Yeah. Thanks for having me on number one. Appreciate it. Enjoyed, uh, excited to continue the conversation. Had a good time when we met, uh, before.
[00:02:35] Yeah. Um, Kind of answer those in reverse. I think in terms of standing out, it's really essential to have like that look and feel and sound, be really cohesive. Uh, the way I look at it is you want people to know that it's you, uh, when they run across you, no matter where you are. Uh, if it's social media content, if you know, hopefully your online persona matches what you're.
[00:02:56] Offline persona. Yes, sir. Right. Um, you know, you hear all the time how people talk [00:03:00] about, you know, they, they think somebody's a certain way online and they meet 'em in person. They seem like a completely different person. So, I mean, there's a big danger in the flip side of that, of like curating an online persona that's completely different from who you are in real life.
[00:03:12] And that's, that's why you'll see me use y'all, you'll see me, you know, like tell personal stories is because I want that to be, to match up and be natural. Um, Keep chopping like the ax emoji. See like in my name and like in, you know, my content came from a mentor of mine, Dennis o Dwyer. Um, I worked for a company here in Austin called White Up and Media Group for about four years, and I helped build that from the ground up.
[00:03:35] And Dennis and I worked closely almost seven days a week for four years. Um, you know, really building it. It was like a team of four of us that carried a lot of the weight and, um, It's something he always said and had plastered all over the walls in our offices. And the notion is, you know, when you're doing your criminal work and you're doing consistent work and you know, you're kind of pressing away every day.
[00:03:55] It doesn't feel like much is happening. Like you're not making much progress. Um, and [00:04:00] it's all these little chops and you get frustrated. You're like, okay, what am I doing? Especially when you get started with content. Um, everybody experiences it where you're putting stuff out there, you're not getting any kind of response like, why am I, why am I bothering, why am I wasting my time?
[00:04:11] But the idea is you'll eventually hit a plateau. And for the chopping analogy, like if you're chopping wood, you're eventually gonna like have that last little chop that just breaks everything open and breaks it in half. Um, so that's the idea and that's where that comes from. And uh, you know, it's a work in progress.
[00:04:24] So like, yeah, I've had ups and downs where I got to a really good place in terms of my content. I was getting a lot of response and I'm like, this is not the audience I wanted to be or the community I wanted to be. So I like completely pivoted and now I'm kind of back down here coming back up. Yeah. It's just, there's no
[00:04:38] Cesar: one right way I, I love.
[00:04:40] Keep chopping because it is action oriented and it's also Right, not about perfection, it's about progress. Right. Right. It's just, it's just a great phrase. And, and I, I just, yeah. When I shared the story, I was like, yeah, this is something that, you know, I can relate to, you know, cuz it's, it's easy to get frustrated right, when you're not making progress.
[00:04:54] Oh, of course. Uh, or you put something out there and it gets like, One, like, you know? Right. Yeah. Um, [00:05:00] so for, for the people here in the audience, um, you know, who might not be familiar with your work, like, how would you describe what you do now? Um, you know, who's your audience? What's the problem that you're solving?
[00:05:09] Um, and then we can work backwards from, from there.
[00:05:11] Kris: For sure. Yeah. So the company's called Zanate Ventures, um, about three years old. Started out in social media. ghostwriting was primarily working, um, to help solopreneurs and small business owners establish their personal brands on LinkedIn, you know, through a lot of social media.
[00:05:25] Ghost written content and pivoted hard, um, about three months ago to work, kind of focus more on working with agency owners and startup, uh, founders on content creation and marketing. Um, so, you know, our goal is to create compelling content to help, you know, start up founders and agency owners. Actually working with some coaches as well, uh, to really establish their story, their unique story and what that means to them.
[00:05:49] Um, so they have the ability to talk about the transformational arc and the transformational path of their clients and their content, whether we're the ones creating it or we're guiding them down that path to doing it [00:06:00] themselves. And, um, yeah, we do it in a variety of ways. We do a lot of blog content, social media, content, thought leadership, uh, generalized.
[00:06:06] ghostwriting in different places, some campaign management stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's a big variety. Some email marketing, you know, we, yeah. Um, between myself and my wife Julie, who is my business partner, um, we have a pretty diverse skill set. So we do a lot of
[00:06:18] Cesar: different things. I love that. I know. I wanna put a pin on that and come back to it.
[00:06:22] Uh, but I wanna go back in time now, three years ago, you know? Mm-hmm. And what was the fork on the road for you when. You had to path, right? Like one pursued the business and the other, whatever options you had. Um, right. Yeah. What was the moment like, you know, what was that fork on the road and what led you to ultimately, uh, pursue entrepreneurship?
[00:06:44] Yeah,
[00:06:44] Kris: um, took a job for the money back in November, 2019. Jumped from something that was pretty stable. Into something that on the surface was pretty shiny. Um, it was a substantial raise. Probably a 20 something percent raise, which now, let's be honest, no one's gonna turn down. Yeah. Got [00:07:00] in there and within about 60 days, realized it was just a dumpster fire and then it was gonna go sideways.
[00:07:06] And sure enough got laid off about 30 days after that. Um, so I got laid off at the end of January of 20, um, right before Covid. Right before Covid. Yeah. Not a, not a great time to get laid off. Um, so I kinda hit him inflection point actually on the drive home from, you know, getting, getting fired of, you know, I don't wanna do this again.
[00:07:23] Like, I, you know, it was kind of the notion, okay, do I go back out there again and try to find another full-time job? You know, repeat the cycle or do I try to lean on myself and, and build something on myself? Cause I always feel like I had that in my d n a and my mom and dad were both, you know, essentially their own bosses for the majority of their careers.
[00:07:40] So it was always there and in my mind, and that was just a trigger, you know. So I found a couple contracts and worked on those with, with companies for about six months there at the turn of 20, uh, really dug into. LinkedIn like July of 20 and started posting almost daily and I grabbed my first ghostwriting [00:08:00] client about three months later.
[00:08:02] Mm-hmm. Um, so there was a good nine months there of, of really digging in and kind of building my personal brand and turning toward building something for myself before I got that first client outside of contracts. So, um, didn't happen quickly, but. Thanks to supporting my wife and had a little bit of a cushion to fall back on, was able to do it.
[00:08:22] Cesar: And, uh, that's amazing. A couple questions, sir. Yeah, I know. I, I love it. And, and you know, a lot of people struggle with the decision of, I. What do, what do I sell? Right? What, what's the skillset that I, I should offer as a service? Um, sure did. How was that decision for you? Like what was it more of a, Hey, you know, what skills do I have?
[00:08:36] Or was it something like, Hey, I'm interested in this and maybe I'll start doing it for free and then, you know, work, work for, for testimonials. What was the process for you?
[00:08:44] Kris: Yeah, interesting. Um, The ghost writing thing necessarily wasn't the first iteration. My first thought was to like, do a blog about blogging as weird as that sounds.
[00:08:53] Um, you know, basically just teach everything that I knew about content marketing, content strategy did go that route for a little bit at the turn of [00:09:00] the year and 28 really didn't go anywhere. Yeah. Um, you know, tried a community for freelancers that kind of, Fell flat a little and was thinking, you know, I was really watching how people created content on LinkedIn and.
[00:09:13] You know, I've been around it long enough to know when somebody's writing their own stuff and probably isn't. And now we've got the whole new factor Oh. Of ai. So it's tragic
[00:09:21] Cesar: PK ruin
[00:09:22] Kris: it for us. Yeah. It's like a, it's like a new BS meter to, to add to the, add to the arsenal. Mm-hmm. But you know, I can kind of tell, and so I'm like, okay, there's gotta be something here, like is what's happening.
[00:09:31] And the more I kind of dug into it, I realized that there were a lot of ghost writers out there. So get to people listening, like if you're only doing a lot of. There's a lot of people you think are somebody, maybe somebody else in terms of like that content being owned by a ghost writer. Um, and it was just a natural opportunity, you know, to, to really kind of go in that direction and sell that as a service and get that first client to.
[00:09:54] But they're trusting me to do it. Yeah,
[00:09:56] Cesar: that's a, that's a first big challenge, right? Getting that first customer to, to trust you and take a, take a [00:10:00] leap of faith. Yeah. Um, how, what was the conversation with your wife, you know, how, how do you get your, your wife involved in this, you know, uh,
[00:10:04] Kris: yeah. So, you know, she.
[00:10:05] Comes from a performing arts background, especially like audience development and marketing and performing arts world, and was working for an organization here in Austin for about three years at the time when the business was really starting to and go going well, and she was ready to make a pivot and her skillset is naturally complimentary to mine.
[00:10:24] She's, you know, a better designer than I could ever think of being like, I'm. Canva at best. Like she's hey, she's really good at Good man. Yeah. Um, she's also a phenomenal writer and you know, was kinda a, a built-in editor for me and the work that I do and vice versa. We edit each other's work and it's just a lot of natural synergy there.
[00:10:39] I love that. Um, so it just makes us very rare. Yeah. And things were going well enough where she was able to, to make the jump and not gonna sit here and say there hasn't been for rough months, cuz there absolutely has been. But um, We're moving in the right direction.
[00:10:49] Cesar: I love that. Um, how has your thinking changed, you know, since making that decision, you know, what are some of the things that, um, you have learned from your three year journey into, into
[00:10:57] Kris: entrepreneurship?
[00:10:59] Um, yeah, you will [00:11:00] pivot. I'm not gonna sit here and say, you may pivot. You will pivot. Yeah. I mean, the, the first few inter iterations of, of whatever you have in mind may work that may not work. If, if the first one works, you're a unicorn. Uh, I don't know of of anybody that like blasted out of the box with an idea and it.
[00:11:17] Worked and became their long-term business. I mean, everybody I know in the, in the entrepreneurship world and the, and the people that I've, you know, kind of communicated with and networked with, have all had that moment of pivots. So just, just be aware that you'll pivot. There's gonna be iterations. Get comfortable with that.
[00:11:32] You know, it's cliche, um, but you're gonna fail. There's gonna be some failures. So be prepared for that. But be ready. To learn from those and adapt what you learn into that next iteration. Um, and I say that you're gonna pivot and it's true, but give those, give those pivots time too. Like make sure, yeah.
[00:11:50] That when you pivot, you give it time to really see if it's gonna succeed or fail. Um, yeah. And yeah. Yeah, because ideas, I'm gonna pivot. Oh, that's not working. Okay, well, I need to pivot again. Well, you can't do that to yourself. You've gotta, [00:12:00] you gotta give yourself some time to see what it really does.
[00:12:03] You're gonna commit to?
[00:12:05] Cesar: Yeah. One second. What's up?
[00:12:05] Yes, go ahead. Yes, this is, um, You know, when you have kids at home, it's, you know, it's bound for, uh, un, un unexpected questions. But in terms of pivot, right? What I admire about you is that, uh, you learn by doing and through pivots and lot of people get stuck in the. They think that what what they're gonna do is like long term.
[00:12:17] Like, you know, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life. And no, most likely you're gonna pivot because you have no idea what's coming, right? Uh, right. Even with this podcast, to be honest, uh, it might pivot into something that I had no idea. Right. But I just know, I just know what I know now, which is Right.
[00:12:31] You know, I wanna have awesome guests share the stories. Who knows if I, if I morph, morph into something else? Right. Uh, of course, of course. But you will never know that if you never get started, right? So, right. That's why one of the things I admire about you is how you're like, you try things, you are self-aware, right?
[00:12:46] You pay attention. Have the courage to say, you know what, I think I'm gonna pivot this way. Right? Uh,
[00:12:52] Kris: yeah. In that moment when I decided to pivot away from ghost riding, I told the story about it a little bit on LinkedIn as it was just becoming very visceral. [00:13:00] Like, you know, I'd had a few actually referral type calls from current clients who referred me as somebody else who.
[00:13:07] Who I thought could potentially become a ghost starting client. And I was getting a lot of nos and I'm like, ok, why are these nos happen? And you know, I really did some reflection on that and I felt like I wasn't really selling it with confidence cuz it wasn't something I wanted to do anymore. Mm-hmm So that's a hard thing to, it is.
[00:13:23] Right. You know, they kind recognize in yourself. I took a long walk, um, walked all over Austin, walked like eight miles on a Friday afternoon, took my notebook with me and just brain dumped everything out. Like, here's why that isn't working. Here's where I think I could go, you know, to lean back on what I know.
[00:13:40] And, um, literally pulled the trigger on the pivot the next day on LinkedIn, announced it, restructured my LinkedIn profile and connected with a ton of people. And, um,
[00:13:48] Cesar: Yeah. I love that. I love that you, you know, you took time for yourself, you journal. Um, typically journaling, right? It's one of the ways people vent.
[00:13:54] Um, but it could be anything, right? Whatever works for you if you're, if you're listening to this, but taking that time for yourself and to really [00:14:00] reassess, right? And, and think about what. What's working, what's not working? You know, where do you wanna go next? Right. And then what you said next, it's like I immediately took action.
[00:14:08] Right? Because a lot of people do do the process, but they don't act on it. They just sit on it, you know? But I think taking immediate action is, is critical, right? Because then you start to get momentum and then you start to find out if your hypothesis is, is right or wrong, right? For
[00:14:21] Kris: sure. And it's scary.
[00:14:22] I mean, I'm not gonna see her and say, it's not scary to do that. I mean, I was like, okay, this could go really badly. And I was prepared for that. Um, but it didn't, I mean, we got two new clients in the last two months from kind of telling that stronger story. Yeah.
[00:14:35] Cesar: Yeah. Around the pivot. I love that. Yeah.
[00:14:35] Love that. Is there, is there any advice that stands out to you? Um, you know, it could be throughout your career or to what you're doing now that, um, You know, has
[00:14:43] Kris: stuck to you? Yeah, man, that's a great question. Um,
[00:14:48] I think being prepared to understand that you are the product when it comes to social media. And what I mean by that is if, even if you're paying for like LinkedIn premium or if you're [00:15:00] paying for, you know, whatever you're paying for social media-wise, You know, you're still largely the product because you're not paying like a monthly subscription fee.
[00:15:08] Therefore, because you're the product, it's time to take, you know, to build your business in a way that gets off of those platforms. Yeah. Um, this is part partially me telling myself this, cuz I need to like, get back in this mindset, but, You hear people harp all the time on the importance of like meeting people offline and building email lists and like an email community and you know, through newsletters or building Slack communities and stuff like that, and you see everybody doing it.
[00:15:34] You're wondering why. That's why because there's no guarantees that any of these platforms are, are gonna be around long term. I mean, Facebook is wavering at best. You know, LinkedIn is, is fine and stable because they're owned by, you know, monolith and, and Microsoft. They're probably not going anywhere, but Yeah.
[00:15:51] Yeah. Who knows what AI is gonna bring? Like ai, AI could bring some kind of a social network that absolutely decimate the rest of these. Yeah. And if you've, if you've put all your effort [00:16:00] into like, you know, one basket and you're not thinking about how to build offline, um, You could struggle. It could be a, like, could really blow up your business.
[00:16:08] And that's why we met, that's why I meet with people as often as I can, both locally, you know, and on calls, um, to establish those other networks because you always want to have other things happening in the background that aren't so dependent on social media. So yes, build, build your brand. I mean, it's absolutely important, but think about the other elements in building off
[00:16:28] Cesar: one.
[00:16:29] Also I love that. I love that. You know, and, and, and I'm getting more and more bullish on live events and, and meetups and community, just because I feel like the space, uh, the content space and the social media space is very saturated. Yeah. Um, right. So it's crazy that events are now a way to stand out, you know, and, and host meetups and, and and whatnot.
[00:16:46] Yeah. Um, and, um, How, how are you navigating, right, this, this whole thing with, with AI and, you know, what's your take on it and, and where do you, where do you see it going?
[00:16:53] Kris: It's overwhelming. I mean, I was just unreal. To me, I'm subscribed to probably six AI newsletters I get [00:17:00] every day, and I'm not reading 'em like end to end, but I'm scanning, like skimming to see, you know, what really applies the most to content marketing.
[00:17:09] Um, I have a premium subscription to Chad G p t. I'm doing a lot with that in terms of research and kind of, you know, thinking about. Um, where we can take some of our own company content initiatives as we get into Q3 because we've kind of neglected that to some extent as we've been focused on client execution, which we should be.
[00:17:27] Mm-hmm. But it's time to turn some of that back in as well. So I don't know. My take on it is that you adapt to it or it will make you adapt. Um, so, so ultimately, I, I think it's on all of us to learn how to use it, because if you just. Bear your head in the sand. Um, that moment will come a few years down the road when it's too late.
[00:17:45] Um, yeah. Is it going to like, cause mass extinction of the employment market where every sector, like we're all on universal basic, basic income and there no one can work? I, no, I don't think that's gonna be the case. We'll do that to some industries. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. [00:18:00] Yep. Um, but I think, you know, the reason why copywriting will continue to exist and content marketing and and marketing will continue to exist.
[00:18:07] To some extent is nuance and empathy and the things we bring to the table as people. Like that's gonna take a hell of a long time for AI to replicate that. And if it does, we're in a lot of trouble anyways.
[00:18:19] Cesar: Yes. You know, that's what I think that's, there's the emotional in, in the element of your own unique experiences, right?
[00:18:25] Right. That AI cannot take away from you. Right, right. So if you're able to, whether you're a ghostwriter copywriter or a content creator working with clients, right. And, and if you're able to extract that from your clients and incorporate it into the content, I, I think that's, at least for now, right?
[00:18:43] That's, that could be a way to mitigate the, the impact of, of ai, right? Because, yep. Yeah. If it's just, uh, What, what do you call it? Commodity content, you know? Yeah. Then that's, then you're in trouble, right? Yeah. Uh, that's, that's where, where, at least from my experience, using the different tools, that's where I see it's like, you know, Uh, the [00:19:00] biggest impact right now.
[00:19:01] It's like, yeah. Generic list, you know, about something. You know,
[00:19:05] Kris: I, you know, for an example, we, we sent a proposal to a company a few weeks back, kind of had some back and forth, and it kind of got down to nuts and bolts where we had given cost and they sent us a rejection that was obviously written and tragic to you.
[00:19:18] Oh God. He really, and was like, Can't be serious. So I mean, that's, that's the way that it can be used negatively, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you've got it there. If you're gonna use it, put it in some context, you know? Yeah. Think about when the right time is to use it and how to use it. And use it for things that are augment your business to help build your business and build your presence rather than, uh, our.
[00:19:43] Kind of time saving because the time saving element seems good on the surface, but it also has a negative effect of mm-hmm. We're all starting to develop kind of the BS meters now where it's easier to recognize. Okay. That was written by ai. Yeah. That, that's bs. Yeah. Yeah. And that's coming, that's coming next, is we're [00:20:00] gonna have this collective understanding that that was not written by a person.
[00:20:03] Cesar: So, yeah. Yeah. I can, I can already tell if someone sends me like a automated thing, you know? And Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a slippery slope, right? This, this, uh, obsession with automation. Um, I think it's good to an extent, but if it's to the point where you're sacrificing, uh, empathy and, you know, human emotion, then yeah.
[00:20:20] It's gonna backfire on you, right. You
[00:20:21] Kris: know? Yeah. Um.
[00:20:22] Cesar: Two more questions and then I'll, uh, I wanna do a wrap fire around, you know, to, to wrap up. Yeah. What is, for sure, um, yep. Where, where do you get your fulfillment, you know, through your business, you know, what, what, what aspect of it is, is the most fulfilling to you?
[00:20:33] Um, and, you know, where do you,
[00:20:35] Kris: where do you see it going? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, very deliberate about protecting time and place freedom at this point in my life. You know, I'm 46, halfway to 47, so I've been tied to, to chairs and cubicles and all that for a good part of my professional life. And yeah, you know, very deliberately have built this in a way where it's, it's.
[00:20:57] It's transportable or we can take it where we [00:21:00] wanna be. Um, couple weeks back, we worked for a week in, in Towson, New Mexico and Northern New Mexico. I saw that, you know, from like the patio or Airbnb or little coffee shops there in, in town. So that transportability is very important to both of us. And we have aging parents, so the reality is we're gonna have to get back to our hometown.
[00:21:17] A lot more than we ever have in the next few years. Yeah. Um, so it's not just about money and chasing money, it's about, you know, creating the business in a way that mirrors your lifestyle at that point in your life. Mm-hmm. And I think that means different things to different people. Yep. And the mistake that a lot of people make when they start something for themselves is, Scale because everybody, every coach and under the sun preaches scale.
[00:21:40] Scale, scale. Like, yeah, there's two ways to scale. Either you, you know, build up to where you, you know, you can't do it all new more by yourself, and you hire an employee so they can scale faster. Or you take yourself out of the business and you create these digital products that'll make you all as money, hands off.
[00:21:52] Well, I mean, both have elements of truth. Yeah. But the reality is if you don't build something that [00:22:00] reflects where you are and what you want at that point in your life, yeah. You're just recreating a job, so what's the point?
[00:22:06] Cesar: Yeah. I'm so glad you put up about scaling because a lot of people get caught up in that scaling game.
[00:22:12] Yeah. And to me it's about happiness. You know, are are you happy with five clients? You know? Right. Are you happy with 10 clients? Maybe we one client. Right. Like ultimately it's, it's really personal. Um, and you don't have to scale or you don't have to IPO to feel, to feel like you made it. Right. Uh, yeah. I saw a clip from.
[00:22:29] Gary v the other day where they ask him about, uh, if we ever think about I p o, and he said no. He said no, because he knows that he's self-aware enough to know that that wouldn't make him happy. Right. So I I I thought that was refreshing, you know? Yeah.
[00:22:45] Kris: I think more people need to be more honest about that.
[00:22:46] Yeah. Like, what do you really want from it? Yep. You know? Now, now what does everybody else tell you Sha want from it? What do you want from it? Because then you build in the mechanisms that make sense for that. Like we're, we're pretty executional and we prefer to be [00:23:00] executional in terms of the work that we do.
[00:23:01] We do a lot of content creation. We're hands on. We're in the weeds of the storytelling. I know other people who prefer to kind of treat it like strategy where they're not as in the weeds and maybe they're working with teams that are doing execution of the content. They're setting the table and you can go either way.
[00:23:18] Because, you know, they're building their business a little bit differently. You know, they're, they're maybe thinking to sell it one day as like a mm-hmm. Strategic agency rather than actually a content agency. Yeah. Um, so you just treat it like, you, like, makes sense for you, and if you don't do that, you're gonna sell yourself short.
[00:23:32] Yeah.
[00:23:32] Cesar: I agree with you Chris. Uh, just love for sharing, man. I, I appreciate that. And, um, yeah. Yeah. To, to wrap it up. I would love to do something fun. You know, I've never done this, but I think it'll be fun. Hold on.
[00:23:38] Kris: Oh, gu. Yeah,
[00:23:38] Cesar: there's kids in the background, um, around, but yeah, so rapid fire round, you know, this are like, you know, uh, one question and just gimme your 32nd answer.
[00:23:43] Um, you got it. Alright. So first one, one book that has greatly influenced your life.
[00:23:49] Kris: Wow. Oh man. Um, Early on was good to great. Um, you really talks about kind of that difference between, you know, reaching a point where things are going well and it's predictable [00:24:00] and you know, and you're in a good place versus what it takes to take that next step to, to really make that business or make your personal life even better.
[00:24:08] Uh, so good to is one that's always kind of hanging out over here. Recently been reading. I've always had a little bit of a, kind of a religious, I'm, I'm not religious, I'm kind more of a spiritual person, but I've always been interested in Buddhism, so I'm reading a book called Buddhi. Um, it's over here on my shelf.
[00:24:23] It kind of applies like Buddhist principles to modern life. Um, oh good. That's,
[00:24:26] Cesar: that's been really interesting. I'm gonna have to link it up in the show notes. Um, yeah, I love those kind of books, so thanks for sharing. Um, alright, next question. One of the most work well investments that you've made, um, You know, it, it could be, it doesn't have to be physical, it could be, you know.
[00:24:35] Mm-hmm. Something.
[00:24:35] Kris: Yep. Um, I'll flip it a little to say, say, overs, save money out of every single invoice paid. When you're gonna start, I'll say 30%. Um, probably extreme, because if you think about self-employment tax, you're probably, it's probably more like 17%, but right. If you save 30%, you'll have a cushion for a rainy day.
[00:24:56] You will have bad months, and that 30% will help you get through the bad months.[00:25:00] Um,
[00:25:00] Cesar: I like how you think,
[00:25:01] Kris: Chris? Yeah. Um, we, you know, I paid three quarters of what I should have for like, um, Kind of estimated taxes last year, and our tax bill was much less damaging on tax day because that money was in savings and we just
[00:25:16] Cesar: paid it out.
[00:25:17] You just paid out even. No problem.
[00:25:19] Kris: Yeah, that's, that's smart. So save 30%
[00:25:21] Cesar: and you'd be surprised. You can live on a lot less than you think. Right. And a lot of people overthink that, but, uh, that's, that's a good one, um, quote that you think of often, or. Model that you live your life by? Yeah.
[00:25:34] Kris: Uh, outside
[00:25:34] Cesar: of keep
[00:25:35] Kris: chopping.
[00:25:36] Yeah. Uh, definitely two. You know, it's kind of attributed to different people, but the, it is just the idea that tomorrow's not promised. Um, you know, so today's all we have, you have to stay focused on today, obviously have, be forward thinking, but there's no promise, you know, of tomorrow. Um, also, There's more to life than simply increasing its speed is one of my favorites, uh, from Gandhi.
[00:25:59] And, um,
[00:25:59] Cesar: what, what does that [00:26:00] mean to you?
[00:26:01] Kris: Um, everything we do to constantly think about scale, impressing and doing more and less time, uh, you know, it's bs. Um, it's important, but also if you don't stop to take the time to recognize what you built and like, enjoy. What you built and why you built it, and why are you doing it?
[00:26:17] Yep. Um, I'm also a big believer in like celebrating small victories. Uh, because if you don't take the time to pat yourself on the back a little bit for, um, the small victories and what's going well in your business or in your personal life, then you're gonna run out of the momentum to build something bigger.
[00:26:34] Um, love that. You're constantly on the grind and you're not taking a moment to, to pause and enjoy what you've built and what are you doing? Like why are you building it?
[00:26:42] Cesar: Yeah, I hundred percent agree with you. You know? Yeah. But Instagram might make you think the opposite. So, um, in the, in the last year, uh, or, or recently, uh, any habit that you have implemented that has improved your, your, your quality of life.
[00:26:54] Kris: Yeah. Um, We walk at least two and a half miles a day. Uh, typically like just around the neighborhood we [00:27:00] walk to. Um, we live in a part of East Austin where there's a couple breweries and like coffee shops are, are pretty close by, so it's easy for us to take a walk and like, you know, work in different places.
[00:27:10] I'm a big believer in that change of scenery. At least once a week I'll go somewhere new and sit down and just write for two, three hours to just get out of everything else and write about. The business or focusing on a blog post for a client. So I think that combination of like having one type of physical, um, activity you like to do every day, and then also changing scenery, whether it means going to a new place or um, just separating yourself from where you typically are.
[00:27:37] Like, I'm sitting at my desk right now in my office. I'm here probably. 70% of the time. But yeah, try to have that separation sometimes to just remember that there's a broader world out there outside of,
[00:27:47] Cesar: outside of, for walls. I love that. You know, it's something interesting that I have come to realize is that the physical en environment where you're in.
[00:27:57] Influences your, at least for [00:28:00] me, your creativity. Absolutely. Right. So in, in, in this room, I recently made a, a small tweak, right? So I, I took this desk from facing a wall to facing the window. Yeah. And man, it's done like, like right now I'm looking at, uh, you know, so there's a farm on the other side of the street and I can just see green and I'm just like, it just re-energizes you right.
[00:28:23] Instead of just looking at the wall, I dunno why I put it there. You uh, but yeah. You know, just making small tweaks. I, I think to the physical environment is, is so underrated.
[00:28:32] Kris: Yeah. And if you're gonna work at home, have multiple spaces where you can, we have like five spaces. Oh, that's, that's even smarter, man.
[00:28:39] Yeah. We bought some chairs. We have. In our neighborhood here in East Austin, it was kind of a thing in the fifties. Some these houses were built for there to be concrete slabs in some of the backyards. So we have this weirder concrete slab in our backyard where there was like a built-in grill and something I guess people did back then, like these weird brick in grills.
[00:28:57] So we bought, you know, some pretty nice patio furniture. [00:29:00] So also when the weather's nice for the next couple weeks before you go into the summer, uh, can go out there and sit outside and work in the mornings too. Yeah, I love it. Um, have multiple spaces, especially if you're working with your
[00:29:10] Cesar: spouse. Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:11] No, it's, it's, it's important right. To, to, to switch around. Um, now Chris, last, last question to, to wrap this up. Right. Uh, this year, you know, a lot, lot of people getting laid off, you know, a lot of people trying to figure it out. Uh, what's next for them, right? In terms of their career, in terms of their life.
[00:29:26] Um, you know, what advice would you have for those people? Um, you know, what would you want to be a takeaway from this episode in terms of. Figuring it out, you know, whether it's, whether it's their next job, whether it's maybe taking the plunge into entrepreneurship, right? Like, what would you recommend
[00:29:39] Kris: to them?
[00:29:40] Um, don't be so reactionary when you do get laid off. Um, you know, I, I went through several in my time in the corporate world and, and, uh, the startup world, they just, they happen, especially marketing. Take a few days, you know, be mad first, you know, go do what you need to do to boss team. In the moment, but instead of like the next day or two days later, like [00:30:00] immediately diving in and applying to hundreds of jobs, take a little bit of time to step away, go sit somewhere and think about it.
[00:30:08] Like, do I really want to get back into that cycle? Mm-hmm. And if I do, what does it mean? Like, what type of companies should I be looking for? What type of roles should I be looking for? Is, you know, The reason why I got laid off as it related to the role, was it related to the type of company? Like do some introspection as to what that means.
[00:30:26] So you don't like too quickly get in into something else. It's exactly the same and it happens again. Yeah. Or there's a risk of it happening again. Or maybe it is that mode of inflection, like, do I wanna stay? In this world, is it time to to try something else? And I'm not saying you fully leap out of the corporate world into into building something for yourself.
[00:30:44] You hear that advice sometimes. I think it's a little misguided. Cause if you don't have a cushion to fall back on, that's a big risk. But if you do, maybe it is. Or is there a side hustle you can build that's complimentary mm-hmm. You know, to your skillset. And if you, if you do need the security of, of the full-time [00:31:00] gig in the short term, like what can you build as a side hustle that can help you kind of almost build your own escape pod?
[00:31:07] Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that's, you go one of three ways there, so Yeah. But you have to take the time to think about it because if you get laid off and you just dive right back into the pool, Might end up history. History can repeat itself.
[00:31:21] Cesar: Yeah. You might end up in the same place or worse. Right.
[00:31:24] Right. From like freaking out. Uh, but I love that, that you, you start with introspection. Yeah. I think it's, it's so important, right. That just like what do you actually want? Right. Right. Um, and um, yeah. You know, um, I think the future is uncertain. Right. And I think the only constant is change, especially Yeah.
[00:31:39] For your career. Right. Like, and I think. Making pivots, it's just gonna become more and more common, right. As technology progresses, right? Oh, especially, yeah. Yeah. And you are ahead of the pack when it comes, it comes to pivots. No, that's great, man. It's, that's how you build resiliency. Yeah. Right, [00:32:00] right. And introspection.
[00:32:00] So, Yep. Well, Chris, well thank, thanks so much for coming on the show, sharing of course, bit of a journey with us, uh, yeah. You know, into entrepreneurship, running your business, and, uh, sharing with us some, uh, life advice that is super valuable. Right. So, uh, where, where can people find new, you know, yeah. Find out putting up work.
[00:32:20] Kris: Sure. Um, in terms of getting a feel for kind of how I tell the story of, of what I do and what we do as an, uh, follow me on LinkedIn, um, that's kind of my, my home. I spend most of my time there in terms of social content, um, kind of played with others, but don't really bother, uh, any more much. Uh, website is Z Ventures, so it's Z A N A T e ventures.com.
[00:32:41] Zante Spanish for Grackle and like the grackles are the black, black waxing birds we have here everywhere. And I really, uh, you know, kind of identify with their scrappiness, their resilience. So that's where the name comes from. Um, I love that. And yeah, those are the two primary places. And you know, again, we work with startup, uh, founders, agency [00:33:00] founders, small business owners to help them really refine their stories and, and create that compelling content to help them, um, find their ideal clients and build their businesses.
[00:33:08] Cesar: Awesome, Chris. We'll, we'll make sure to link, link them up in the show notes. Uh, for right now, thanks so much for Yeah, joining and, and sharing and uh, yeah, good luck out there. Enjoyed it. Thanks.
[00:33:15] all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you would like to support the podcast.
[00:33:39] Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode.