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The Value Creation Mindset explores the decisions successful leaders make to create real, lasting value for their customers, teams, and businesses.
Hosted by A.J. Singh, each episode features candid conversations with founders, CEOs, and builders who have been in the trenches, unpacking hard-earned lessons on leadership, technology, strategy, and execution. No hype. No shortcuts. Just clear thinking, first principles, and practical insight from people who have actually built things that work.
[00:00:00] Hi, I'm AJ Singh. Welcome to the Value Creation Mindset, the podcast that explores the principles behind the decisions successful business [00:00:10] leaders make to, to create value for their customers and themselves. We explore choices that create real value. What [00:00:20] changed, why it mattered? What, what were the trade-offs?
What's the proof? Today I am joined by Rakesh Tiku [00:00:30] president and CEO of infield of infield Solutions. Rakesh is a serial entrepreneur who built systems that improve how [00:00:40] people work. Today he is, he is focused on an IOT business solutions platform that brings sensor fusion together with workflow automation.[00:00:50]
Welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much, aj. So, you know,
could you give us a two minute rundown of [00:01:00] what's your origin story? Hmm. Um, only two minutes, so I will do my best. I will do my best. Um, [00:01:10] so, okay. Basically I come from a academic family. So my father's professor, uh, most of my mon uncles and aunts on my father's side are, are professors, [00:01:20] uh, of various fields.
Uh, growing up I was, um, at, at the homestead. I was, uh, surrounded by academics, you know, from around the world about various [00:01:30] topics, beautiful intellectual conversations, um, which I appreciate, uh, and really for me to this day. But what was lacking, [00:01:40] uh, per my purview, based on my biases, was an understanding of commerce business.
So in university, I, uh, uh, you know, as I was doing my [00:01:50] degree and, and whatnot, uh, I actually started my first company into, uh, what's now called internet or e-commerce. Mm-hmm. Uh, and this is early nineties, [00:02:00] well before the way. Um, and what I loved about it was that, uh, one I realized I'm actually naturally pretty good at it.
Um, okay. [00:02:10] Uh, and I was able to employ my creativity with my business actor and let's call it, uh, to use a vernacular, um, in, in a way to, [00:02:20] to actually be meaningful to my client and to my own business. Um, and, and, and I really, really did enjoy how it stimulated both the academic [00:02:30] side of my, uh, being as well as the creative and, and, and business side.
So all three aspects, right? Sure. Uh, so that, that was the interesting foray into what I do [00:02:40] today and, and, you know, the starting of the path of my journey, uh, towards today. Um, since then I've also, uh, realized that, uh, I'm always, [00:02:50] uh, I can't follow the norm, so I do not, I always say I exist outside of the box.
I mean, do you actively re reject the norm or [00:03:00] you you just move to your own drummer?
One is, I don't even know if I know what the norm looks like. Okay. So that's one. Sure. Two. Um, [00:03:10] just my natural ability. I'm able to absorb concepts and ideas and, and viewpoints, um, and then mold them into my own. So sometimes I'm not [00:03:20] even sure if an idea is original or I take an idea, modified somebody else's.
Great thought. Um, uh, I have the ability to actually be able [00:03:30] to, uh, uh. I could even see a page in the words and, you know, have some photographic memory, but I couldn't tell you who the author was or the name of the title of the book, but I could tell you the page number. You [00:03:40] know, like it's, I would, I would kill for, for a photographic memory.
Amazing. Well, it, it's, yes. The challenge is is I, I, I've never cared about where it came from. You know, [00:03:50] it's, it's interesting. Um, which like, it, I, it kind of, uh, you could call me Terminator, leave it alone. Um, so, [00:04:00] so, so, I'm, I'm, I, I, what I found was I'm very good at looking at problem and coming up with solutions.
Um, it always, I found it intriguing, like, why am you solve this already? You [00:04:10] know, I, I had that mindset when I was talking to a client. It's, it's an obvious problem, uh, with an obvious solution possibly. Um, and my business journey has always been [00:04:20] around that solving problems that other people are facing.
How do you utilize a tool, technique, process, piece of technology? How do you leverage that to, to, uh, [00:04:30] better. How you work or how you think, or the efficiencies and productivity and whatever you're doing. Um, this stems both business and personal. Uh, and that's [00:04:40] just how I think and all my businesses have been around that concept.
So you, so, so your fundamental frame is always around defining and [00:04:50] solving a problem, whether somebody brings to you, whether you discover it, whether you realize it by connecting a few dots, that's, that's your frame, that's what you focus [00:05:00] on. And at that point, it becomes something to solve and something to optimize is, is that right?
Correct. Um, even on a personal note, I, I truly believe why [00:05:10] cannot, why can we not be happy all the time? Why can our business not be efficient and effective all the time? You know, uh, uh, I understand why, but there, [00:05:20] there are means to improve the nature of things without a doubt. I, I, someone much, much wiser than the taught me.
Very [00:05:30] recently that happiness is, is a choice. Yes. And you know, it's true. It's taken me so long to realize it. [00:05:40] My wife still doesn't believe me. But, um, that's your choice. That, that that is her. That is true. You know, I actually said this to the, to several people, uh, uh, I'll become more [00:05:50] preachy as they get older.
Um, I'm finding, uh, you have to allow yourself to be happy. You have to allow your business to be happy. You have to allow your business to be [00:06:00] successful. You know, you, you, you know, there's this whole concept. It's an old concept, but it's a concept that's come back. You have to, to, to visualize uh, what you want [00:06:10] for your business and for yourself personally.
And then allow that to happen and allow yourself to enjoy that success once you've achieved it. And I think as a society, uh, we, we [00:06:20] tend not to especially enjoy, but equally not allow, you know, we put obstacles in front of us that are unnecessary. We do at, we, we [00:06:30] are very good at sabotaging ourselves a hundred percent.
And, and, and I mean, you know, I, I [00:06:40] believe that as, as human beings, we are unable to see objective reality. Mm-hmm. We can't, we always look at it through [00:06:50] some lens. Yes. And for a long time I thought that lens was whatever you put on when you woke up in the morning. And then I [00:07:00] realized you can choose the lens through which, yeah.
You look at things, look at life, look at yourself, and I don't know, you know? Yeah. I, I [00:07:10] too, as, as I get a bit more, as I get a bit older, I get a little more preachy, I guess. Or, or, or contemplative, [00:07:20] but. These are choices that we can make. And probably the biggest, the biggest lesson that I've learned over the last many years, and it took me way, way too long to [00:07:30] learn it, is to forgive myself.
Yes. Right? Yes. I mean, so talk to me a bit about the [00:07:40] situation that you were in. Mm-hmm. Where you found yourself, you know, upset with how things were, [00:07:50] and you were punching yourself in the face like we all tend to do from time to time. Sure. What happened to make you stop and what changed as a [00:08:00] result? Um, maybe there's so many examples.
Um, I'm gonna keep it towards business for, for this one. Sure. Um, as a business leader, [00:08:10] regardless of your actual title. Uh, if you were a leader in your organization, even the leader in your team, the hardest thing to do is make a decision. The hardest thing to do is make a [00:08:20] decision, uh, when you have a limited set of data.
Sure. And the realization is that to make a decision, you'll always [00:08:30] have a limited set of data. You'll never have all the data. Never. I don't know what that looks like. Uh, so you have to make a decision with what I'd call good [00:08:40] enough set of data or knowns. Right. And sometimes maybe the decisions rash. And I have done that where maybe a [00:08:50] decision was rash and I didn't have a comprehension of the situation, enough data necessarily, to make the decision at the time when I did, maybe there was [00:09:00] pressure, maybe there was reason to do it, you know?
Sure. Um, and then it turned out it was, it was the wrong decision. And like you said [00:09:10] earlier, a few, few, few moments ago, uh, you have to forgive yourself. You know, as long as, uh, nobody, uh, went to prison or nobody died because of this [00:09:20] decision, then Libby, sorry, that's French. Uh, who cares? Yeah. Yep, yep. Right.
Um, so yeah, allowing yourself the [00:09:30] right to make a decision if you, you have that role and function, and that's the purpose in that moment. Um, and then being okay with the outcome. Being satisfied with the [00:09:40] outcome, good or bad. It, it doesn't matter. Uh, you just have to do it sometimes, right? So I've had to learn that.
And, uh, yeah. I rarely, I don't [00:09:50] regret anything actually in my life and, and I don't regret my decisions. I get you. I mean, you know, it's like, I, I, um, it goes along [00:10:00] with, uh, a shift that I made. A while. A while. A while ago when, um, I forgave [00:10:10] everyone, whoever had wronged me right in, in a business and in personal life.
And it was just an internal [00:10:20] process. I didn't have to say anything to anybody. And how'd you feel afterwards? So much lighter. Yeah, exactly. Because I, I, I've always had a really long [00:10:30] fuse. Yeah. Really long fuse. Okay. But those very few people who got to the end of that fuse were met with a fire of a billion sons.
And I would keep [00:10:40] that lit and alive and growing to a point that I had somebody call me who was on that list. Okay. They called me 10 years [00:10:50] later. Okay. I immediately went straight back and told them I never want to hear from them again. And I hung up the phone [00:11:00] and I'm like. Why am I carrying this around?
Yeah. I've forgiven everybody. It's actually impacted by that baggage, you or them, I mean. Oh, no, it's true. [00:11:10] They might have forgotten about the whole thing. Who knows? Right. And, and I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, um, here's a real thing. It does no good. Right. Who does [00:11:20] that help? Does that help me? No. Does it help my family?
Does it help my, my business, my customers, my employee? Does it help my dog? No. [00:11:30] What's the point? So it's, it's just like, but then I, I kind of stalled out. Yeah. So I would only stay mad at myself. Sure, yeah. [00:11:40] 'cause you retained that baggage. And ultimately, well, we do. We just have to let it all go. Is that, uh, to expand on what you're saying, I mean, you have to forgive others.
You have to forgive yourself. Any [00:11:50] wrongdoings, any mistakes, any wrong decisions or, or whatever. 'cause you're gonna make mistakes. You're a human. A hundred percent. And, uh, uh. Yeah. And [00:12:00] life is too hard as it is. Why? Why put obstacles in front of yourself, whether emotional or real, right? So, um, now I'm with you a hundred percent.
Forgive. [00:12:10] Let's forgive the whole world. You know, it's, it's interesting that, um, anger's interesting. So, so I also have a very long fuse. Uh, [00:12:20] but there's certain things that set me off and it's, it's, and it could be random. I have this, uh, uh, what I've, I don't know. The psychological term is I deemed it as a [00:12:30] fairness complex.
Okay? Everything needs to be fair around me. So I'm negotiating a contract, uh, the other day, and I found several mistakes in the, uh, supplier's contract, [00:12:40] and it benefited me. I can't live with that. I will correct it, point it out to them and say in the, in the, if there is a conflict, I even talked to them today about it.
If there's a [00:12:50] conflict and I cite this error, which is in my benefit potentially. You are gonna say, well, that wasn't the intent and now we're gonna have a bitter fuse feud. [00:13:00] Sorry about the intent. Uh, and, and whatever circumstance was around that, I'd rather clear it up and keep it clean. Our intentions are known or clean and, and, and it [00:13:10] works for both parties and let's operate as friends before we become enemies.
I mean, there's no need, you know? Exactly. That's just the way I think about everything. And it's sometimes [00:13:20] problematic, but, you know, well, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a sense of ethics. It's a simple question of what's right, of what, uh, [00:13:30] what's right and wrong. I mean, the, the, the best definition I've heard of integrity is doing the right thing even when nobody's [00:13:40] watching.
Right. And what, and what you just pointed out, I, it just screams integrity and which. [00:13:50] These days tends to be a little short supply. Well, you know, there's this, uh, we, we as humans, uh, we, we do have a, uh, a variable called greed. [00:14:00] Um, and I have greed. It's not that I don't, I want more, uh, it's just the nature of things.
But I think you said it in your, uh, uh, initial, [00:14:10] uh, preamble, uh, at, at, you know, at what trade off for me to have more, somebody else has to have less. And that could be a, uh, slice of pie. It could be, uh, it [00:14:20] could be a money, you know, slice of pie when the kids were little. I used to do it. Uh, uh, I have two kids.
Uh, one would have to cut this, two, that piece of pie into two. The other one pick. [00:14:30] Yeah, that's my fairness. Complex working. So, so, you know, you can't out negotiate the other person, you know, uh, in that situation. It's, it's a fair trade off. Yeah. [00:14:40] Um, and I'm like that in life as well. And, and, uh, my view, I am not met, uh, a happy billionaire.
Um, yeah, no, [00:14:50] I, I, I, I haven't either and I've got a, I don't know, just, it's just a thought. Do you, do you at some point lose a piece of yourself when you get to [00:15:00] that billionaire? A hundred percent. You do. I mean, you know, so I'd like to keep it a dollar short. Correct. I deal with that, you know, and, uh, I believe, okay, now [00:15:10] we getting philosophical maybe, but I believe that everything is, is intended to be in a balance.
So that's a trade off concept, right? Sure. For me, me to get, I have to give, [00:15:20] for me to give, I have to get, and I mean, and it's re the reciprocal occurs on the other side of that transaction. Yep. Sure. Um, so my view on personal [00:15:30] wealth, for example, is why do I need more than what I need? You know, how do it, it may benefit me materially, maybe benefits my legacy materially, [00:15:40] uh uh, but it comes at some cost, whether realize or not.
So I, I'm not of that mind frame. Even in a contract of one, one of one [00:15:50] transactional contract with a client, I don't want to make more profit than I need or deserve because it'll come back to me. It could be through expectation. They, they want more and demand [00:16:00] more or whatever. Right. No, it, it's, it's so do you take the long view and everything?
I mean, that's everything. But I, so even in my role in my company, I don't do a lot of [00:16:10] short view stuff anymore. It's all long. Everything I do is long view. And even personal life, it's long view and it drives people crazy. I know, but because, you know, if apparently we will see this [00:16:20] podcast one day, I'm sure, and they, they go, yeah, he's, he can be very annoying.
But I, I am that chess player that's sticking three to five moves ahead. Yep. That's just how I play. [00:16:30] Well, I mean, what's the alternative? Just to living in the moment only, I don't know. Well, I mean, so some might say, Hey, um, [00:16:40] uh. You're not living in the moment. You're not being present. Yeah. And you know, at some point [00:16:50] there's balance to that also, because if you're always, if you're like entrepreneurs, founders, we all tend to be [00:17:00] masters of delayed gratification, right?
Sure. We'll get there. It's, it's gonna take a few years, it's gonna take a few months, it's gonna take a few [00:17:10] days. And, but I mean, you know, there's a paucity of this long return thinking out there. People are [00:17:20] want quick solutions to complex problems. They want an easy answer to something for which there is no easy answer.
They want to jump to a [00:17:30] solution without characterizing a problem. Right. This, this. We hit this again and again and again. And a lot of this comes down to [00:17:40] leadership style. It comes down to, you know, your focus on fairness and, you know, integrity.
[00:17:50] To me, that's, that has to be foundational to your very success because how are you gonna attract people around you if they think you're unfair? Yeah. I've had customers in the, [00:18:00] if, if, if they think you're only looking out for you a hundred percent. I've had customers in the early days go to me. I don't know exactly what you're offering.
I don't know if I [00:18:10] exactly believe you, but you're so passionate about whatever the topic was that I'm gonna go ahead and, yeah. I've reflected upon that so many times, years ago, [00:18:20] so many times on that, you know, interaction. And it's true. I mean, we often, we all wanna be around people. We like one. Whether it's your customer, your [00:18:30] spouse, your friends, your kids.
Well, kids don't have a choice, but, uh, kids, uh, I'm joking. No, I'm not. Um, I love my kids. Um, but you [00:18:40] know. Yeah, and, and, and you wanna, you wanna continue to let yourself as well, you know, that's so important. I I
[00:18:50] You wanna be able to look in the mirror and say, I like me a hundred percent. No. And, and not, not a hundred percent of you, if you like everything, you, and not every [00:19:00] moment you are a raging narcissist and there's something wrong. But if you, if you look in the mirror and you only like half of what you see, [00:19:10] yeah.
You're, you are looking at yourself through a dark lens. A hundred percent. I think my, my, my, my target's always been around the 80% [00:19:20] mark look. You know, it's, it's like I, I just like you and again, I don't know if this is just what our family has taught us growing up, [00:19:30] core sense of right and wrong if, and, you know, I I, I grew up always thinking if I haven't earned it, I don't want it.
Right. [00:19:40] Yeah. I don't play lottery is because of that. You know, even if I go, uh, uh, you know, I, I do enjoy, go to a casino on occasion or, or play poker or whatnot. [00:19:50] I do it more for the entertainment and if I win, I actually feel, uh, guilty. I don't deserve it. Yeah. Like, it's, [00:20:00] um, and I'll often, if I win, I'll leave the table and it pisses people off, you know?
'cause Oh, oh my God. I, I, I was in Vegas a couple years [00:20:10] ago with some friends of mine who, um, uh, we built a whole IOT platform for 'em. They had a very nice exit. Nice. We were [00:20:20] sitting around, um, playing, uh, video blackjack and having a couple of drinks, and I put in 20 bucks and I got my tokens [00:20:30] and I'm sitting there and I'm betting 50.
I'm betting 50 cents. I'm, I'm, you know, and my friends are just, they're just laughing at me. 'cause my little bets and at the [00:20:40] end I walk away with 20 bucks. Yeah. So I got, I got an hour. That's a great return statement. Exactly. I think, look, I take so many risks and so many other areas, [00:20:50] I don't need to do this.
No. You know, it's like I bet I, I, I, you live a risk, you don't need to, uh, play risk as well, right? No, it's just, I don't know. [00:21:00] I, I, Vegas is not my, is not my vibe. I, um, people are nice. Food is great. Sure. But I'm, I'm not much of a [00:21:10] gambler. I don't smoke, uh, I don't drink nearly as much as I, as I, uh. As, as it did previously.
Sure. [00:21:20] And that's fair. But anyway, um, no, you were talking about a regret or liking. Um, yeah. You know, I, I find it's not as popular now or, uh, common, but in mass media, [00:21:30] uh, for years it was, you know, regrets at the death bed. I don't see it as much. Okay. But, you know, um, and at that point I made a decision [00:21:40] to my, for myself that why would I wanna regret at my deathbed?
I wanna be at my deathbed and be content. Exactly. So that's when I started forgiving myself and others. It, [00:21:50] it was years ago. Years ago I was, I was quite lot younger, but, um, I always say that I could pass at any moment and I'm, I'm content, I'm fine. You know, [00:22:00] I don't really have any regrets. Um, and I think that's a very light way to live.
I think it's a very important way to live. Yeah. I, I think, [00:22:10] well, for me, I mean, that's one of the reasons that I'm a terrible liar. I'm terrible. I, I suck at it. Uh, so I just kind of, I don't, [00:22:20] no, but, but, you know, it's like, I have no doubt I, I'd, I would be a lot richer if I didn't sleep well at night, [00:22:30] but I have to sleep at night.
Yeah. You know, it's, it's just, um, I, I don't, I don't know if I believe in Karma, but I'd like to. Right. [00:22:40] Um, uh, yeah, no, I, I had somebody many years ago. Um, it was, uh, [00:22:50] the only, the only client I've fired, right. We've never been fired, but I, I, I fired clients and I fired, I, I fired a client and, [00:23:00] um, uh, the guy ended up.
Uh, being arrested by the FBI and going to jail, so, oh, no. Things ended up being correct at [00:23:10] the end. Good. But just the, the, you know, he had a software development office in India. Good. And I was out there many [00:23:20] years ago. We were, we were training them on our, uh, on our technology platform. And he had his team there and high up on the wall in the [00:23:30] office.
He put a big picture of himself Nice. At an angle looking down on his people, on, on, on his people. And, [00:23:40] and I just thought a jerk. Yeah. That says a lot right there. I mean, yeah. I, I, um, I, [00:23:50] I always believe if you, it's, it's not really about what we do individually. It's about what we can help others do around us, whether it's our clients [00:24:00] or our customers or our partners, you know?
So in the, in the context of business, the, the [00:24:10] frame that I like to use, maybe this is because I'm a, I am a big Game of Thrones fan. I'm rewatching that also, but love that you need, when you're [00:24:20] building something, you need people around you that you can storm castles with. Yes. That you're not worried that while you're trying to storm a [00:24:30] castle, they're, they're trying to stick a knife in your back.
Yeah. The day. So the level of trust and integrity and faith you have to have in each other is off the charts. It's fair enough. But if [00:24:40] you don't have that fundamentally, regardless of what, of what, of what, of what the endeavor is, I mean, we, we, we, we could do none of this alone, right? Yeah. [00:24:50] So it's. For me to have a long view.
And, and that's how I work. I have to have a team that one, one tru trusts my [00:25:00] vision, or, or at least could challenge me, uh, as appropriate. Uh, but I have to have a team that could counter, you know, I, I I, I made a self realization, uh, years ago and [00:25:10] I continue to, to, to do that is, uh, I've realized I'm, I'm, my ability is very narrow.
I'm only good at some things. I'm not good at everything. Um, [00:25:20] and, and sometimes I'm not good at something 'cause I'm not interested in something. So you can be good at it, but you're not interested. So you're probably not, you know, the outcome isn't as, uh, um, as [00:25:30] positive as it should be. So try to surround my people who with surround myself with people both in life and, and business that compliment, you know, hopefully I compliment them.
Um, and [00:25:40] together we storm the bridge, we storm the more the, the, the wall, right? Yeah. Um, and I don't have to look back. I don't have to look left. I don't have to look right. I have to look forward [00:25:50] and keep going. Correct. Because you don't know what you're gonna find on the other side of the wall. Correct.
You have an idea, but you, you don't really know. Right. So when you're [00:26:00] dealing with that kind of risk ev every day, and you have managed this successfully through, I mean, how many exits have you had? Uh, [00:26:10] four. Okay. So you've, you've, you've been through this and, and you know, earlier when we chatted last month, you had [00:26:20] mentioned that, um, this one you are working on now might be your last one.
It, it, uh, well, my intention is to put everything into it, get to [00:26:30] our, uh, uh, business related goals and Yeah. And, uh, exit one day. This might be the last one where I'm, uh, one of the people at the [00:26:40] helm. You know, I, uh, I I got you. I got you. And, and I guess the, uh. Question for you [00:26:50] as you're pulling a team together Yeah.
And building a product or a business, you know, I, I, um, [00:27:00] you have to build momentum. Yeah. You have to keep, you have to keep, you have to keep driving things, things forward. And it's a little bit like a freight train, right? [00:27:10] That's what you want. You gotta build enough momentum. And if you're, if you're the engine mm-hmm.
On this freight train, [00:27:20] are you pulling from the front? Are you pushing from the back or are you in the middle? This doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't matter. So what's your style? Where do you [00:27:30] fit? Um,
when I was younger, I would say I, I wanted to push from every perspective. Uh, what I've learned is that one, [00:27:40] uh. I'd get burnt out if I attempted to continue to attempt to do that. So it really depends on the topic. Okay. Who is the assigned leader? Who's [00:27:50] the best equipped to address that mission? Question, challenge, whatever it may be.
Topic. Um, and then what, what, how can I [00:28:00] compliment that person? Do I need to lead from the front? Do I have to motivate from the back? Do I have to be a team member? And the other thing, I've also realized that sometimes I [00:28:10] shouldn't be on the train at all. And that's, that was probably the hardest thing for me.
Um, you know, I used to be one of those guys. I played football, soccer, and, [00:28:20] uh, I had dreams of, I was every player on the field. And yeah, we'd win every time, but, uh, you don't have the energy to do that. No. You know, [00:28:30] and, uh, so I've realized that some, maybe I'm on the field watching, sometimes off the field watching.
And that's okay too. So I'm not on the train. So really depends [00:28:40] on the situation. It depends on the urgency, it depends on the, the, uh, fiscal outcome maybe. So the importance. Um, but really who's the right person to lead? [00:28:50] And, and what else is going on? 'cause there's trade-offs. You can only do so many. Oh, push so many boulders up a hill at a time.
You know, maybe there's another boulder I gotta focus on. Another train I gotta focus on. [00:29:00] Um, so for instance, right now a lot of my activity is more m and a based. So the day-to-day operations I'm not involved with, um, actively on the train. I'm more of a passenger. [00:29:10] So I'm, I'm there, I'm, I'm more or less you're or you're a dispatcher managing multiple trains, making sure they don't crash into each other.
And yeah, [00:29:20] create multiple. Or sometimes I'm just a passenger. Maybe I'm not the dispatcher along, I don't need to be. 'cause I have so many good leaders on my team by design that I'm comfortable if somebody else takes [00:29:30] charge and runs that train. You know, I have several to be around the company. So it doesn't need to be you.
It does not need to be you. It's something I've learned in, uh, [00:29:40] 35 years of doing this. So I get you. It took me that long. Well, yeah. What's your view since you asked the question, [00:29:50] titles don't matter. Nope. The it certainly doesn't need to be my idea. Yeah, and I think the, [00:30:00] the, the only thing that really matters is what choices can we make that will create maximum value for our customers.
Nothing else [00:30:10] matters. Right? You focused purely on that. You'll win. Right. You know, and, and I, I went through an [00:30:20] exercise this last, um, uh, over the holidays when I had some. Quiet time. I, I, I was sitting at my in-law's house in [00:30:30] Arizona. Just You still have quiet time? I had some, I had some quiet time. I, I, I've only got the one daughter, she's nine.
Okay. And, uh, nice. She [00:30:40] was busy, so I had a little bit of quiet time and I started thinking about, all right, you know, there are so many different areas [00:30:50] that I need to invest my time that we need, that we as a company need to invest in, in order to [00:31:00] create, again, maximum value for all of our customers and therefore for ourselves.
But I went through and I categorized [00:31:10] and I identified the specific value streams that we have to invest in, how they fit into each other, [00:31:20] who's leading them, and where we have gaps. Then ultimately this is a finite set. Yeah. And, and for us, I, [00:31:30] I identified 31 value streams. Wonderful. That then now I, I have to figure out how to multiplex the entire team's efforts [00:31:40] over these, over these value streams.
But, and within each, you have to calibrate and optimize and figure out where do you want to be in each particular value [00:31:50] stream. A year, a year, a year from now. Right. And then the next quarter, and break it down, identify the rocks, follow the process, and just get a bit of discipline. But it's [00:32:00] only after I did this, and again, I've had Modularis now for, well, we've had Modularis now for 26 years.
Nice. So we've, we've helped [00:32:10] clients with multiple exits. I, myself am not interested in an exit. I still have my, I still have a lot of music left, left in me. So, nice. We'll get there eventually. [00:32:20] But the, the. Reason I'm telling you this is like finally only recently then laid this out. I finally believe that I've, I [00:32:30] figured out the, the board on which we're playing the game.
Yeah. Now it's a question of strategically dipped the, uh, [00:32:40] clawing the game pieces, the assets, whether it's people, whether it's technology, whether it's capital across this, this finite set of [00:32:50] value streams. Yeah. And I guess, you know, have you gone through that type of process on your every day, almost every day?
I mean, um, [00:33:00] there's a limit to what any one organization can do. There's a finite bank of resources, whether it's people capital, um, [00:33:10] or even, uh, knowledge. You know, that's a resource. I think, uh, many people, uh, uh, downplay. But what do you know as a, a collector, as a team? What don't you know? [00:33:20] Um, who around you knows something else or something better, you know, these are all factors of, of and then prioritizing.
So there's different [00:33:30] ways to prioritize. One is a personal interest, Hey, I'd love to do that. There's another one saying, Hey, my customers would totally benefit from this. There's another one that, uh, would [00:33:40] suggest, Hey, I'd maximize the return on investment. So it's a money, uh, outcome. Sure. Um, very rarely is it all three, but hopefully it could be two of the three.[00:33:50]
And you have to decide as an organization or as a leader, uh, for any business, uh, what matters at that moment or that, you know, that particular value. [00:34:00] As you said earlier, you know, it's like you can't be everything to everyone. No. And you have, you, you have to recognize areas where you're weak. Yeah. [00:34:10] And in, in, in, in terms of leadership, a lot of times you don't know if somebody can be an effective leader unless you give them a chance.
Right. [00:34:20] And that's the other thing is, uh, to, to have a successful team, you have to be able to see past the, uh, the veil of each individual and see the potential. And then [00:34:30] as a leader, my job is to replace myself in a role constant, you know, and that allows me to now focus more on building and working on the business than at [00:34:40] business.
Is that right? Yeah, that's, is that right? No, that's a classic challenge. 'cause it's, it, the default is you'll be spending a hundred percent of your time working in [00:34:50] the business Yeah. Not on business. And your, and your value is gonna be diminishing every day by doing that. The value to the business that you bring, you know, [00:35:00] uh, deep, deep, you know, share your knowledge, depart your knowledge, depart your way of thinking and your process, give it to somebody else to now hopefully do it better, and then you move on and [00:35:10] continue to evolve and, and, and move the business in another direction.
Right. So, uh, that's the way I look at it. Not everybody does. Um, and that's fine. [00:35:20] You know, uh, but, but that has worked for me personally, and that's given me a, uh, measure of satisfaction to see somebody else shine. Oh. For somebody else. We get close to [00:35:30] realizing their potential. I mean, that's nothing better.
No, I, I, I've, I've always believed that, um, credit should travel downward. [00:35:40] Yeah. And blame should travel upward. Sure. That's, that's generally the opposite of how things go, but that's, that's a standard that I try to stick to. [00:35:50] But yeah, there's always a scapegoat to protect, uh, the leader, you know, and, uh, and, uh, it's unfortunate because, uh, that could actually do that, that could cause [00:36:00] that, uh, scapegoat to falter and never realize the potential that could be the end to their career.
You know? Uh, it, it, it certainly can be. I mean, I, I, [00:36:10] out of the three basic materials that any of us have to, to work with. Right. You, you've got people, you have [00:36:20] a set of technologies and you've got some amount of capital. Yeah. And it's, it's our job to combine those, to select those, combine [00:36:30] those, and focus those assets through a clear and a shared vision.
And through effective leadership to focus that actually create [00:36:40] value. Right. Without that focus, right. Without that, without that energy, all you're gonna do is you're gonna light your people on fire, you light your capital on fire, light [00:36:50] your attack on fire. Right? And that does not move any of the balls.
But out of those three areas, the, the attack, the people, and the capital, which is the hardest for [00:37:00] you to understand to, to wrangle with, to focus? Well, for me, the most important one is a people. Okay. [00:37:10] Capital, uh, is, is lost and gained, constant gained. Constantly Right. Technology is ever diminishing. So the product, [00:37:20] it could be technology, it could be any product, it could be a bandaid, it doesn't matter.
It's, it's diminishing. The value of that product diminishes over time because other people, uh, will have a similar product or [00:37:30] better product or, or the, uh, utility of that product, uh, decreases in the, the eye of the customer. But the people that, uh, can you pull it up potentially he's the [00:37:40] only asset of the three that can continue continuously improve and increase in value if nurtured Right, everything else will diminish left to its [00:37:50] own.
It certainly will. Yeah. I, and the people aspect is certainly, I mean, dealing with personnel challenges is, I've found to be [00:38:00] 10 times harder than dealing with anything else. Yeah, because, because you want to be, well, as you were saying, right, you want to give people a chance to thrive. [00:38:10] Wanna give people a chance to grow the, the business needs them to be more effective.
You need to be able to deploy them. The EOS concept, [00:38:20] uh, is GWC, does a person get it? Do they want it? Do they have that capacity to actually do it a particular role? And you [00:38:30] have, you have to constantly ask that even of yourself, right, for a particular role. Do I, do I get it? Do I want it, do I have the capability of doing it?[00:38:40]
And you make your best guess. You ask somebody the same, the same questions, but when someone falters, [00:38:50] right? You don't want this to be a career ending thing for them. No. You have to find a way to not let them fail. Yes. And that's on you, [00:39:00] right? A hundred percent. Right. And that's, that's the role of a linger.
That's the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night. That's the kind of stuff that I'm [00:39:10] always thinking about and is the hardest thing to solve. On, on the technology and the capital side. There are solutions, you can find them, recap, but on on, [00:39:20] on that personnel side, can you share a situation where you walk into an organization [00:39:30] that is in trouble, there's a team health issue of some kind.
How did you address it and what [00:39:40] was the impact of addressing it? Yeah, so we have, sorry, I was, I was, uh, going on in my thoughts there for a second, but, um, yeah, so we have, we [00:39:50] have a kind of a written rule that each individual needs to take care of their health first, their family second, and then they work.
[00:40:00] Um. The reality is, and I've seen it myself, I've seen it in others, that if those first two conditions aren't met, I will not be productive. Okay. [00:40:10] And once those conditions are met, the productivity increases, the loyalty, the, the, uh, affection, if I'm allowed to use that word, word [00:40:20] for each other, increases in a very good way.
You know, we've had employees, a new employee, so we've worked with him as a contractor before, and he was a new employee and he [00:40:30] said, I have to go overseas. I haven't seen, uh, my family in a long time. And, and, uh, I need to be gone for two months. And I'm like, you know, at first we're like, [00:40:40] he goes, I wanna be a, you know, I need to be gone for two months.
Well, what do you mean Like, you just started, you know? And then he told us why. And he had some personal reasons for it, family and [00:40:50] personal and otherwise. And we said, well, of course, because. This is what's on your mind right now. You need to settle it, but can we do a deal? Can you take these [00:41:00] weeks off and can you work part-time this time and can you work kind of full-time this time within the two months and we'll pay for your ticket?
'cause no, this is important. Yep. And [00:41:10] not only did he go and appreciate it, not only was his quality of work amazing for about five years after he left us eventually. 'cause he approached me and said, uh, yeah, I wanna work, uh, with my [00:41:20] brother. He is starting a, uh, company and I wanna work with him. He, we said, go please, you know, good luck.
Tell us how we could help. But for five years he would still field calls from the customers that were [00:41:30] closest to him at no charge to us. You know, they call, Hey, do you, how do you do this? What's going on? Da, da da. And then he'll let us know and, you know. Yeah. But that's loyalty. [00:41:40] Loyalty can't just be the paycheck based on the paycheck.
No. It's feeling that emotional connection with people. It's so much more than that. It's more No, i, [00:41:50] I, you know, our. What you're saying sounds, sounds very much like one of our core values, which is family first. Yeah. You, you can say these things, [00:42:00] but if you mean it and you live it, you know, like, so we have, uh, unlimited family leave policy.
We, we, I've got, we measure [00:42:10] vacations based on, uh, uh, we, we call CRA, but IRS, uh, uh, parameters, you know mm-hmm. For legal purpose. But we don't actually care because [00:42:20] if you wanna go on a beach and work in your work, uh, at that moment and your commitments at that moment allows for it, go do it. But no, you have to [00:42:30] deliver.
No, it has to be of, of the caliber that we'd expect based on who you are. So that can't change. But I don't care where you work. I really don't. You know, [00:42:40] we went completely virtual in 2011, right? And so when the pandemic hit. Wasn't that big of a deal for us. But [00:42:50] if you're doing that, you definitely have to be very selective about who you hire, because some, some people cannot thrive.
And that, that, and that in that, in that, you're not writing a daycare. [00:43:00] No, you're not. And unless you are. Well, but the main thing is like the added [00:43:10] 90 minutes to two hours that our people get to spend with their family. Yeah. It's huge. It's massive Actually. Angel, angel, let me give you [00:43:20] a, a anecdote. Okay.
This is personal. So, uh, so, uh, I actually worked corporate for several years, uh, in between, in my younger days. 'cause I realized I really didn't know [00:43:30] very much, uh, as much as my ego would suggest otherwise. The reality is, I, I wasn't ready yet. I wasn't prepared. I, it was a different mindset. You know, I'm older than, uh, a lot of the younger [00:43:40] entrepreneurs that, uh, this day, but.
Anyway. So I worked at corporate for a while and I was given this project and it was on a global scale, which is brilliant. Uh, and, uh, I [00:43:50] had three teams had a quote on this very substantial multi a hundred million dollar type of job. Okay. And we had a team from, uh, and this is not a slide on anybody, this is just [00:44:00] observation.
We had a team from North America, so it was a Canadian and American group. Okay. Uh, student from Italy and a team from Thailand. Okay. And they were all asked to quote, they're all internal teams, okay? All asked to [00:44:10] quote on this job independently. You cannot talk to each of it. Interesting. So it was a bit of an experiment.
And we also wanted, it was an experiment of, of creativity and, and, uh, efficiency, let's call it. [00:44:20] And I will tell you, okay. And again, I'm not trying to offend any, uh, uh, uh, anybody, your audience or, or you or whatnot. Um, the outcome is this. [00:44:30] Okay? So, well, I'll, I'll talk about the process. So the Americans would be, uh, Americans meeting Canadians and Americans, I'll call 'em Americans.
'cause mostly Americans, uh, always working. [00:44:40] 24 7. Always available, always, you know, hyped up on caffeine, always working this problem. It was a big problem. It was very important to all three sites and everybody [00:44:50] wanted this. Okay? The Italians, my goodness, I couldn't find them. I, I called their admin or, or their colleagues.
Where are they? Oh, they went out, they went out, they went out. Lunch, dinner. [00:45:00] Reakfast, they're out. Okay. Thailand. Thailand, very structured. Uh, they, they have a, a distinct like you, a very distinct balance between work and, and, and personal. [00:45:10] These hours are business, these hours are personal. Thou shall not cross those blinds, right?
So between nine to five, let's say in their local time, uh, they were working and very well, [00:45:20] 5 0 1 had gone okay? You can't ask them to stay back. That's not the culture. Um, fast forward a little bit. As we a month away from the deadline. So [00:45:30] this is like a 10 month operation, uh, faucet. Sure. Okay. It's not a small thing, so a lot of engineering whatnot.
Whatnot. And, uh, the Americans a month before, I need an extension of deadline. 'cause there's more [00:45:40] complexities than we realize. I need two more months. Okay. Um, the Italians gave me every have to gimme a, uh, uh, my team, uh, uh, precursor a, uh, kind of a review of [00:45:50] what's going on. We had checkpoints all the time, but anyway, a month before we had a, a major review of what's going on, make sure nothing was missed, Americans weren't bad.
Okay. The Italians gave me this beautiful [00:46:00] presentation and pretty thorough. Some, some things needed to be tweaked, but it was nice. The tie said, uh, Hey, we're done. This, this is the, to [00:46:10] address the exact parameters of the quote, this is the, uh, uh, and the second one is, uh, uh, something off, out of the, out of the box.
And we looked at it from another perspective. And what we've done is [00:46:20] divided to two distinct teams within the tie, then that facility. One's addressing your problem set. The other one's looking at it from a different perspective, and we're still working on the alternative perspective, but we will be [00:46:30] done.
The other one is done, and here it is. Beautiful, polished. Okay. Um, so I'm gonna pause there for a second. What I found was the Americans worked hard, but were very unproductive, is, [00:46:40] is my observation. The Italians, they separated themselves from the office environment and they went as a team for breakfast, lunch, and dinner to allow themselves [00:46:50] to be creative and focused on the problem set at hand, which was my, uh, uh, particular, uh, proposal.
We could build. The ties, as I mentioned, broke up into two teams. One was, uh, [00:47:00] in scope and the other one was, uh, an al alternative view of that scope, let's call it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So think it outside the box. Very good. The client in the end decided on who the Americans did. [00:47:10] Were on time. In the end, it was rushed, wasn't as polished.
The Amer the, the client decided on the Italian, beautiful, polished, plural to the point, some creativity, [00:47:20] but within scope and the tile alternative. Because it was different and it had the potential to, we could, some learnings there that we could apply to other, uh, sure. Applications, let's call it. [00:47:30] Um, and that's the outcome.
So my view on that, and again, I was young, I was early twenties I guess, or [00:47:40] late twenties rather early thirties. Uh, so pretty young. And my outcome of that was, it's not the amount of time and effort you put in something. It's the quality of time and you have the [00:47:50] right team members, you know, can you come in a collaborative environment and allow for the right level of creativity, professionalism, thoroughness that you [00:48:00] require to address the problem or, uh, you know, respond to a quote That's very interesting, the culture and not sliding Americans.
I, you know, I, I, no, hey, [00:48:10] you know, we do great things, but I'll tell you just quick. I had a, a epiphany the other day, so you may know or may not know, Canada is, uh. [00:48:20] Considered to be the, one of the most unproductive, uh, uh, inefficient, uh, of the G eights. Okay? And I made a statement to someone the other day. I said, I, I [00:48:30] challenge that.
He goes, why? I said, I don't think that's true. Okay. Why? I don't think it's just the G eights. I'm gonna say any country that has achieved some level of industrial [00:48:40] revolution Canada's near the bottom. Okay. Globally. Well, a government study was just published, and again, I don't remember the title, but I'll, I'll, I could look it up if you want, [00:48:50] but, uh, uh, and it said, not only are we near the bottom, we could be at the bottom, and we may be there till 2030, 35 in terms of productivity, [00:49:00] productivity and efficiency.
We're com Canadians are complacent. We're, we're good enough, we're happy. You know, which, which is not a bad thing. [00:49:10] No, no. I, I, I mean, you know, but from a business standpoint, that's not what you want. As a shareholder, that's not what you want. And it is very true. We're not willing to change. [00:49:20] So you think a lot of this stuff is baked into the cultures?
Various, I'm saying it's in your fiber of each individual being is, is how we behave. And you have to [00:49:30] reprogram that to change you. You do. I mean, I, I, we've certainly noticed, um, huge cultural differences and, [00:49:40] and in our, our team in the US we have, um, most of our folks are in Columbia. Sure. I gotta tell you, I [00:49:50] love Columbia.
I love, I love, I love Colombian's work ethic. The focus, the, the family first attitude. It was fully embraced. Yeah. [00:50:00] And I, I, I think the, the one thing that I, that, that is a bit disturbing about this is that.
If we [00:50:10] allow ourselves to be defined by these stereotypes,
what, why? Then they become true. Why get up in the morning? They become true. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you [00:50:20] know, a lot of this comes down to, I comes down to identity, asking the question, who am I? Who are we, what are we trying to do? And, [00:50:30] and I, I go back to, to something that my junior high school teacher asked me something that really had a [00:50:40] profound impact on my on, on me and my perspective.
And she said something very simple said, imagine what the world would be like if we [00:50:50] spent our time focusing on what makes us the same, rather than what makes us different. Okay. And imagine what the world would, would [00:51:00] be be like if we spend our time being thankful for the things that we have, rather than only thinking about the things that we don't.
Right. [00:51:10] And so my frame for life is we're all the same. Mm-hmm. And we're all connected. Okay. Whether we want to be or not. [00:51:20] Right. And in this context, I mean our differences in terms of culture and business ethic, all of this stuff, right. That can add a lot of flavor. [00:51:30] Yes. And that's fine. That's interesting.
Nobody likes eating bland food. Right? Well, that even the Brits, right? Because they've adapted Indian food. [00:51:40] But the, allow me to challenge you for a second. Allow me to challenge you if you don't mind. Uh, I, I a hundred percent agree. We're all connected. That's, that's [00:51:50] my viewpoint as well on, on things. But I'm okay if we're different.
Um, sure. But the way I look at, at the difference is we shouldn't measure [00:52:00] the value of the difference. Meaning that my difference and your difference one isn't better than the other. Let's embrace them both and learn from each other and become [00:52:10] better collectively. Right. We're saying, we're saying the same thing.
Same, same thing. We're saying the same thing. It's, it's a question though of how we define ourselves [00:52:20] and where we, where, where we focus on it. I think, you know, everyone's born with certain gifts and a certain amount of potential. Sure. Whatever that [00:52:30] might be. Yeah. Us, our people, our kids, our dog, every, right.
Every, and, and, and it's a question of if you wanna create the [00:52:40] most value as an organization, right. For your customers or for yourself. It is an optimization question. How can you get, how [00:52:50] can you reach your full potential as an organization if you can't help your people get closer to their full potential and whatever [00:53:00] pluses.
And so, you're right. If you have the mindset of a performance based expectation, what you're saying is a hundred percent right, but it's ba it's based on that expectation. Maybe I [00:53:10] don't want to be the best, maybe I just want to exist. Um, you know, how to, how to, it's not a competition or a zero sum game that for some people it, it can be, it [00:53:20] doesn't need to be, you know.
Well, I totally agree with you there. It doesn't need to be, but it's more of a question of what's the point in the sky you are reaching for? It's the vector. Yeah. [00:53:30] Not necessarily of the velocity or the distance. What's the direction? And then, you know, are you moving towards it and you're not gonna get, who [00:53:40] knows if you'll ever actually get the, that's not the point.
The journey is the point. Do you get what I'm saying? The framework you're defining is a healthy one for the individual and the [00:53:50] business that to be success. We can measure success in many ways, uh, but to be, have a healthy expectation of oneself and one's business, what you're saying is [00:54:00] exactly correct.
You gotta have a, a point in the future and that pushes you forward somehow, individually, as an organization, whatever it may be. Um, and, and that is [00:54:10] one of the key to being happy actually, is having that set. We, we had a, you know, preamble in the beginning. Uh, it's allowing yourself to be happy because you've achieved something [00:54:20] of relative importance.
You know, you know, it's a milestone, it's a goal. It's something, it's, it, I think it's important. I agree. It, it's not even necessarily the achieved. [00:54:30] I mean, I've, I've got, I've, I've got a two question tests that I apply, uh, I apply to everything, which indicates [00:54:40] whether you, you should be able to sleep well at night or, or, or not One.
Are you in a good place? Right. And two, [00:54:50] are you on the right path? Yeah. Because if you're in a good place, but you're on the wrong path, that that's okay because you can afford to find the right path. [00:55:00] If you're in a bad, if you're in a bad place, but on the right path, it's okay. You, it's gonna get better.
Yeah. But if you're in a bad place and on the wrong [00:55:10] path, yeah. That's the only time you shouldn't be able to sleep at night. Yes. Well, anyway, SSH, I, I appreciate your time. [00:55:20] Thanks for joining me here. I've got, I, I've got one last question for you. You know, we, we, uh, started about, we, uh, we opened with [00:55:30] your origin story.
Yeah. We then talked about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and growth and. [00:55:40] Small topics really. Yeah. Small topics, little things, you know. But I wanna talk a little bit about legacy. Yeah. So I believe our [00:55:50] legacy will be measured by how well and how far we lift all those we touch. Mm-hmm. That's [00:56:00] a deep belief that's shared by me and my partners.
And, um, I'd like to find out, you know, what do you want your [00:56:10] legacy to be? You're still a young guy, you've got lots of time to shape things. Yeah. And you've, you've certainly touched and lifted up a lot of people, but what do you [00:56:20] want your legacy to be? What's that? Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a, uh, it's a good question.
Personally. Um, my legacy are, are, are, uh, my [00:56:30] kids, of course, um, the people around me, uh, and, and their kids, you know, um. And me leaving a positive [00:56:40] impact means that they also leave a positive impact on the world. You know? So that's how I see the personal side of it, I guess. Um, I wanna be a good [00:56:50] person and I want people around me to be good people as well, you know, and how could I influence that?
Uh, whatever that means, but that behavior, right? So that's personally, business [00:57:00] wise, that's a little more challenging. Um, so my mandate has always been that my impact has to always be positive from my clients and my suppliers, [00:57:10] you know? Um, true story. I mean, I will sit with a supplier and work on their pricing model if I feel it's not appropriate, [00:57:20] even if they have to increase it, so be it.
But if it's not sustainable, if they cannot be a sustainable, valued, high partner, that's under risk for you. It doesn't [00:57:30] help me in the long run. Same for my customer. You have to allow and make profit, otherwise I can't service you. So it's the same mentality, fairness, concept, that complex. Right. Um, so my impact is, [00:57:40] yeah, I want everybody, whether it's myself, my, my colleagues, my, uh, my suppliers, my customers.
I want all of them to reach their potential. [00:57:50] And my legacy would be guests that they've, uh, reached, exceeded, and, and helped others achieve their own potentials. I, I can't [00:58:00] ask for more than that. Uh, if it comes down to specific products or technology or process or ideology, yeah. Those change. Yeah. Uh, but it's, it's, [00:58:10] it's really that we're out trying to help each other all be better.
I mean, it sounds corny, but that's how I think. Well, I, I, I very much [00:58:20] like how you think this is. Oh, thank you. That, um, you're a good guy. I try. Well, yeah. You know, it's, it's a, I think, [00:58:30] uh, are your parents still with you? Uh, my mother is, uh, my father passed away, uh, several years ago, but, uh, my mother is, yes.
I'm sorry to hear that. [00:58:40] I'm sure. I am sure your mom is proud and I'm sure you're dad, wherever he is, is proud of you as well. I, uh, I, uh, well, they told [00:58:50] me, and in fact, my dad, two days before he passed away, he wrote me a letter saying he's proud of me. He didn't understand what I was doing. He's an academic and I'm not, but he actually wrote me an email for, he was overseas.
And, [00:59:00] and, uh, the essence of that was, I'm proud of who you are and what you're doing and the fact that you're happy. And I couldn't ask for a better part. And it was a [00:59:10] surprise. His passing was a surprise. So that, that's amazing. You know, and that's what I want. I want, I want every engagement at any [00:59:20] level to end up, uh, with a positive.
Feeling for both partners. You know, uh, I had a, uh, a group, uh, when I was [00:59:30] younger and, uh, we were meditating as a group. And, uh, uh, he goes, yeah, I wanted to postulate what your purpose in life is. Uh, and I'm a young, early [00:59:40] 28-year-old guy at that time, and he goes, what I've determined is your role in, in your purpose in life is to make people happy.
And, uh, this is very corny, I know. [00:59:50] Um, but it's actually been a, a mandate of mine ever since, is that, uh, I used to have customers call me. I'm having a bad day, make me laugh. And I used to make 'em laugh, and they used to send me an order, you know, like, [01:00:00] yeah. It's, it's so important, you know, a stranger on the street.
I try to make them laugh, but, you know, and it doesn't matter. It's amazing. You had somebody tell you [01:00:10] what your purpose in life was, that direct I, I would love to have somebody tell me what my purpose in life. Yeah. I was, I was taken aback, but then I embraced it and, uh. [01:00:20] You don't know me that well, but, uh, yeah, I am a bit of, a bit of a joker.
I do enjoy laughing and making other people laugh and, and opting at my own expense, which is okay, but, uh, uh, [01:00:30] sure. Yeah. But thank you as well. I, I enjoyed our, uh, multiple conversations and especially the one today. Um, and I appreciate you [01:00:40] providing this platform for others. Thanks very much. Yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, I have a lot to learn, uh, about so many things as my wife keeps [01:00:50] reminding me correctly.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Value Creation Mindset. I'm a j Singh. If this episode helped you follow the show, [01:01:00] leave a rating and share it with one person who you think it will benefit. For show notes and more, visit modulars.com/podcast. [01:01:10] See you next time.