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Sylvie Pelletier, Leadership development consultant and coach, discusses what makes a great leader, what an organization’s culture really means, and how many companies fall short when instituting a new strategy.
Welcome to Dig In, the podcast brought to you by the minds at Dig Insights. We're interviewing some of the most inspiring brand professionals in marketing, innovation, and insights to discover the story behind the story of their most exciting innovations.
00;00;06;23 - 00;00;19;06
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig In the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way.
00;00;22;09 - 00;00;42;19
Speaker 2
Hi. Welcome back to Dig In. I'm in Ash, and today I'm very excited to be talking to a really good old friend of mine. Well, a really good friend who I've known for a long time. Sylvie Pelletier. We met way back at CIBC. I don't even know how many years ago that was like, I don't know, 15 years ago maybe is maybe as much as that.
00;00;43;20 - 00;00;47;07
Speaker 2
Although you've held up against time much better than I have. Sylvie. Nice to see you.
00;00;48;04 - 00;00;49;07
Speaker 3
Nice to see you, too.
00;00;50;07 - 00;01;28;25
Speaker 2
And I remember back at CNBC, you know, you had a very senior role in brand management, and you'd always been a branding expert, but you'd also you know, even then you were definitely a strong leader. And you've always worked in leadership. And now for the last little while, you've been leadership development consultant and coach very exciting. So maybe you could give us before we get into what you're currently doing, you have a little bit of a history on the types of teams that you led, particularly in marketing at companies like CIBC and Food Banks Canada.
00;01;29;23 - 00;01;56;26
Speaker 3
All right. So my background include working in in all kinds of organizations, large, medium, small. I started off in an advertising agency in Quebec. That's that's where I was born. And then I went on to work in in a number of different financial institutions and not for profit. So I've worked at the departmental level, the Enterprise. I was VP Marketing Chief Marketing Officer.
00;01;57;09 - 00;02;21;26
Speaker 3
So I develop brand strategies and campaigns throughout my career. But I also spend a lot of time coaching and developing teams. And I got a lot of energy from that work. Know, where were you empower people and organizations to unlock their potential. And so I shifted my focus to leadership development, consulting and coaching.
00;02;22;21 - 00;02;55;29
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I mean, obviously maintaining a brand, understanding what the northstar of your or your company or brand is. Strategy plays a strong role in that. And obviously you've now progressed into leadership development, consulting and coaching strategy has to be very involved with that. Can you talk at all about how you progressed in terms of your role in focusing on, you know, strategy as opposed to sort of just broader branding and marketing?
00;02;56;12 - 00;03;26;19
Speaker 3
Absolutely. You talk about that, that Northstar and and strategy in and organization plays a key role. But what I noticed was a problem with a lot of companies, so they invest time in coming up with a vision, a strategic plan. They launch it internally. That might look like a memo from the CEO maybe there's a two minute corporate video, perhaps a launch event, and that's often it.
00;03;27;04 - 00;03;52;21
Speaker 3
And in my experience, it doesn't go far enough. The biggest gap that I know this is for an organization to make their strategy come to life through the people in the organization. And so what I have as experience is that it's not that people don't want to it just don't know how. And so internal strategic alignment becomes key.
00;03;52;22 - 00;04;18;05
Speaker 3
And this is not a new challenge. But when employees have the knowledge and the ability to make the change, that's when organizations get to that to the next level. And so communication is key, but leadership coaching or leadership development and coaching can help accelerate that process. And I saw an opportunity to help with that acceleration.
00;04;18;23 - 00;04;47;12
Speaker 2
It's I like what you were just saying there. I think, you know, I've worked at a lot of large organizations and with a lot of larger, larger organizations and some you and often they'll kind of do that vision mission and then their whatever their, you know, their core values are. And that'll often kind of become something that gets hung on a wall, but they don't necessarily live it.
00;04;47;23 - 00;05;15;18
Speaker 2
And to me, you know, it's often more important that you live the values in in in an authentic way, perhaps, than even the specific words around what your your values are. So I know, for instance, that at Digg we have we have the five E's, which I'll hopefully actually remember, there would be a burst of energy, empathy, evolution, equality and excellence.
00;05;15;18 - 00;05;30;13
Speaker 2
And actually, we just we just added empathy How have you seen companies really incorporate their values into both their strategic mission, but also the way that they're operating day to day?
00;05;31;21 - 00;06;04;25
Speaker 3
So the way that companies do that, the companies that do this well, will follow a change management process that that is more robust. And one of the change management processes that I really like is at car and at car stands for aware desire, knowledge, ability and reinforcement. And that is especially important when you're looking at behavioral change. Right.
00;06;04;25 - 00;06;40;04
Speaker 3
So aware is people know what is changing. Desire is about knowing why. And that's where you get buy in from the organization. Knowledge is when people know what they need to do differently in their day to day and how ability is about practicing and identifying barriers and support needed and reinforcement is about getting feedback to course. Correct. So you can see that it's a very involved process, but that is really what is needed to get people to change their behaviors.
00;06;40;13 - 00;07;02;15
Speaker 3
Communication is a starting point for sure. It's key, and many organizations don't go far enough with that. But the additional layers is including that that leadership coaching. That's because employees get trained and get coached on what they specifically need.
00;07;03;15 - 00;07;24;23
Speaker 2
So these are tools that you work with and and steps that you work with, with your clients in both your coaching and the consulting to make sure that both they but also the organizations below them understand what the strategy is, understand what the values are, and they're all aligned and they know what they're working towards that.
00;07;25;14 - 00;07;53;21
Speaker 3
AB Absolutely. Now, the fact is, is this kind of work, you know, helping people on teams absorb all of this information could be done by a manager, but that's assuming that they have the time and they have the ability. And very often they have neither or if they have the ability, they don't have the time. And so that's where an external coach can come in.
00;07;53;21 - 00;08;16;24
Speaker 3
And I really like the word accelerate because that's often what's happening. It's competing priorities internally, but an external coach can help and accelerate that. And in fact, I saw a stat that said that now 44% of high performing organizations are actively budgeting for coaching in in their in their finances.
00;08;18;01 - 00;08;38;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, this is core to the culture. Right. And and I think what the challenge is, is particularly when you have, you know, multiple generations working in a workplace right now. And I don't want to generalize per say, but I think that what I've noticed and this is actually I want to say a positive thing about millennials.
00;08;38;25 - 00;08;55;15
Speaker 2
They get attacked all the time. And I'm going to say very positive thing is that they do look for meaning in their work and they generally what I find is that they do align with things like values and the character values. My you know, again, completely anecdotal, which I shouldn't do as a researcher, but I'm going to anyways.
00;08;55;22 - 00;09;13;19
Speaker 2
I find that a lot of people, though, who've been around for, say, 20, 30 roles, particularly large companies, they're kind of just there to do a job is their attitude, right? Like, you'll talk about culture, you'll talk about values, and they kind of roll their eyes and then they're like, it's just a job. How do you, how do you deal with that?
00;09;13;21 - 00;09;16;19
Speaker 2
Kind of workforce or at least those types of employees?
00;09;17;14 - 00;09;49;06
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think what you're asking about is, is they're really just there for the paycheck right? It's it's what they need to, to, to to pay the bills. And they're not getting anything out of it. I'm not sure that they're just they're that they're they're just for that. They just haven't found the other connection. And so for me, what that means when you have employees like that is that they're not engaged in their work and they're not connected to the organization.
00;09;49;06 - 00;10;24;19
Speaker 3
So in that scenario, no one wins. So the employee gets the income that they need, but they're not inspired. Satisfaction is probably very low. And if the organization really wants to reach the next level, having engaged employees who feel a strong connection is really a key criteria. And when you talk to people who really enjoy their work and you ask them what gets them out of bed and in the morning, it's that connection that they have.
00;10;24;19 - 00;10;42;14
Speaker 3
So connecting their work to something that is meaningful to them. And that's where coaching can help, where you can help someone look at their work through a different lens so that they can start to make those connections to their own personal values and their strengths.
00;10;43;11 - 00;11;00;28
Speaker 2
Right. So it sounds a little bit like, you know, similar to the ethos of like Simon Sinek. Start with the why. Ultimately, people connect with a deeper reason for work, and that's when they start to get, you know, to really identify with it and feel that it's doing something for them beyond just the paycheck.
00;11;00;28 - 00;11;19;29
Speaker 3
Right? Absolutely. And and the why, you know, an organization needs the why and for employees, maybe that organization or why is going to be good enough for them. But for others, they're going to need to work a little harder to make that connection. But there are ways that you can do that.
00;11;21;04 - 00;11;45;18
Speaker 2
Excellent. So I think enlightened leaders certainly would hear what you're saying. And they'd be nodding along and they'd be saying, this sounds great. This is exactly what my company needs. I need to get everyone behind my strategy, behind the company mission. I need to align with the values. I need them to feel engaged. But can you give me some practical examples of like specifically how you action this for your clients, the types of things that you do?
00;11;46;02 - 00;12;12;11
Speaker 3
Yeah, sure. So so the type of work that I do really depends on the needs of the organization. But with some organizations, I do one on one coaching, so they identify team members that they would like for me to coach one on one And examples of the types of things we'd be coaching on is to grow individuals against core strategic competencies like leadership.
00;12;12;11 - 00;12;49;01
Speaker 3
You talked about your five E's, so I have organizations that tell me, you know, we really want to see our employees grow in these areas. And it might differ, you know, which e you pick might differ depending or it might be different depending on which which employee is being coach or, you know, I coach some employees to take ownership of their career at the request of the organization or simply to engage employees, helping them find that meaning in their work so that they can get energized by going into work every day.
00;12;50;03 - 00;13;16;04
Speaker 3
I also do team workshops. A good example of that would be, you know, either there's an acquisition or a new strategic vision and it's looking at what does that vision or strategic plan mean for specific departments. So we might look at brainstorming what needs to be done differently at the day to day level and how to do that.
00;13;16;05 - 00;13;26;24
Speaker 3
Or we might look at uncovering obstacles, what's getting in the way and what resources might that department need in order to overcome those obstacles?
00;13;28;03 - 00;13;56;10
Speaker 2
Fantastic. Thank you. Yeah, that really breaks it down. So it sounds like a lot of one on one hands on workshops, sessions, coaching and moving the company forward. And then identifying things like obstacles to make sure that you move it forward. That's perfect. Thank you. So, you know, stepping back a little bit saying, great. So, you know, obviously everybody wants to be, you know, a great leader.
00;13;56;25 - 00;14;16;00
Speaker 2
Anybody who's leading a team wants wants to be that we don't all think we are, but we all want to be. The question there is what what makes a great leader like even if I know that I want to be one, how do I define it? So in your mind, what's the difference between a great leader and just a good leader?
00;14;16;27 - 00;14;43;13
Speaker 3
Well, it's interesting because when you when you Google, you know, top skills for leaders, you get laundry lists of stuff that a leader needs to be or to do. But in my mind, I really see three key areas. And the first one is self-awareness. A great leader is going to understand what's getting in the way, and that includes themselves.
00;14;43;25 - 00;15;09;17
Speaker 3
Right. And they have to be willing to work on improving that. So solve the development becomes key. They often know what needs to be worked on. They just sometimes don't know how to go about it, especially when you're looking at changing ingrained behaviors. So it takes practice over time to develop new habits. And that's where coaching can be a really good resource.
00;15;10;05 - 00;15;34;03
Speaker 3
So self-awareness would be the number one area. The second one would be team development because a leader alone is not, you know, is going to accomplish certain things. But if you can inspire and empower the team around you, you're going to be able to accomplish a lot more. And in that sense, what you're doing is you're developing people to become thinkers and contribute to the business.
00;15;35;11 - 00;16;02;14
Speaker 3
The third area I would say, is around having a strategic mindset. So a great leader uses the strategy as a filter for everything that you organization does, and they're able to help their employees, their team members make the connection between the 30,000 foot strategy But what does it mean for someone in operations in their day to day work?
00;16;02;14 - 00;16;12;26
Speaker 3
So it's being able to help them make those connections. And that's really where when you'll be able to have your strategy come to life when it permeates all of the organization.
00;16;14;11 - 00;16;40;04
Speaker 2
Right. I'm going to hit you with something completely out of left field, seriously, because I feel like I liked what you were talking about in the last you know, when you were talking about strategic mindset. We're talking about filtering everything through strategy. I think it is important to always keep again, that Northstar vision. But, you know, traditional you know, that old saying culture eats strategy for breakfast.
00;16;40;23 - 00;17;09;05
Speaker 2
That that and so so many companies you know, even companies that have fantastic strategies often fall victim to, you know, toxic cultures. And I think that's really been highlighted recently. I think just today there was a story about Elon Musk is getting sued by somebody for creating a toxic culture. So two questions there I this is this is always an interesting question for me.
00;17;09;05 - 00;17;28;16
Speaker 2
And I you know, in those cases where I get to talk to culture experts and strategy experts like yourself, I'd like to sort of get their take on what is that, what is culture mean? And I'm going to first before I hear your response, I'm going to give you the favorite answer I've heard so far. So, so far, my favorite answer was from a guy named Tilton Barber.
00;17;28;16 - 00;18;05;10
Speaker 2
I think he gave me a fantastic answer. He said, culture is the worst behavior that senior management will allow. That's how he defined it. So if you let somebody in middle management be a toxic individual to those below it, that's your culture. You've let it happen. When you think about when you go to these large companies and you're helping them both define and align the strategy, and also you always obviously have to deal with culture, how do you think about making those improvements to the culture and how do you think about what culture means to that company?
00;18;07;28 - 00;18;41;25
Speaker 3
Interesting question. And and what comes to mind immediately when we talk about when you mentioned Hilton's response, what comes to mind for me is that you can be reactive with culture or you can be proactive about it. And I think if you are reactive, then you will not be in control of what happens in the organization. So it might developed into something negative, it might develop into something positive.
00;18;41;25 - 00;19;13;09
Speaker 3
It will take a shape of its of its own, but it may be something that's over here, whereas you're trying to steer a ship in another direction. And so for me, culture needs to be embedded in strategy, so or it needs to be taken into consideration. So they need to work hand in hand. And, and so how do you help build a culture that aligns with where you're going?
00;19;13;21 - 00;19;51;27
Speaker 3
How do you how do you find ways? Again, it's about you want your employees, you want your employees to be inspired and engaged. And those to me are positive terms. How do you get the culture to be aligned to that? And I think you cannot let it happen on its own. You need to work at it. And I think aligning it with your strategy as a way to ensure that you can achieve both reaching your destination and inspiring people along the way.
00;19;52;20 - 00;19;53;02
Speaker 2
I love it.
00;19;53;07 - 00;19;55;10
Speaker 3
So basically what your long answer though?
00;19;55;17 - 00;20;10;12
Speaker 2
Well, I guess it's a tricky question, but I think I think you've said something very practical there, which is that you need to make culture a conscious part of your strategic direction and part of your strategy. And I think that's that's a really good insight. So thank you.
00;20;10;15 - 00;20;17;10
Speaker 3
No, don't be don't be reactive. Don't let that happen on its own. Be mindful about them, about it.
00;20;18;19 - 00;20;55;26
Speaker 2
Fantastic. So right now, you know, there's as leaders evolve, they all need different things. You know, they need certain skills or they need new skills. And as a culture, overall culture or society evolves, there's they need different skill sets. I think, you know, what, what might have defined a great, great leader, ten even ten years ago is going to be defined differently is what needs to be a great leader today because there's many more requirements for them to also not just communicate internally but also represent the brand externally.
00;20;56;17 - 00;21;01;08
Speaker 2
So what's the most important skill for a leader to have in their toolkit right now, in your opinion?
00;21;02;01 - 00;21;35;21
Speaker 3
Well, I would say it's the number one that I mentioned earlier on, which is self-awareness. To me, it's the foundation for becoming a great leader. And the reason why I say this is that very often you may not even be aware of how your self you're getting in the way of, of, of being a great leader. But when you start to be aware, it's there's this phrase that says, like, once you've seen, you can't unsee.
00;21;36;00 - 00;21;54;22
Speaker 3
That's what happens, right? So the moment you open yourself up to exploring and being aware of how you might be getting in the way, all of a sudden you're opening up the road to improve. And that's going to take your leadership level to an entirely different level right.
00;21;54;29 - 00;22;08;20
Speaker 2
So I'm going to I'm going to end on a fun question for you, Sylvie. Thanks so much for being part of our podcast today. Thank you. What's the what's the News Source Community podcast? What's one? You can't live without it.
00;22;10;07 - 00;22;42;00
Speaker 3
It's a tough one because I find that the news is so negative and gotten progressively negative and almost sense of it sensationalistic and superficial. So for me, I like to go deep. I like to hear different points of view. So for me, podcasts are a good way or even on talk radio. CBC is local, it's easily accessible, and I get to hear different point of views.
00;22;42;00 - 00;22;47;21
Speaker 3
And for me it's important to hear those different perspectives. So that would be my answer.
00;22;48;08 - 00;23;03;19
Speaker 2
Thanks so much for joining me today, Sylvia. I know you're really busy these days with lots of clients. I know your business has been a great success, but I'm sure you've struck a chord with a few listeners. So if they wanted to find you, reach out to you and see if you're available to help them. What's the best way for them to find you?
00;23;04;11 - 00;23;11;26
Speaker 3
They can definitely find me on LinkedIn, so be healthy and die and email me as well. That would be great.
00;23;12;10 - 00;23;22;09
Speaker 2
Perfect we'll make sure that we put the email address and also link to your LinkedIn account in the comments. And thanks again so much for your time. We'll talk again soon.
00;23;22;23 - 00;23;24;06
Speaker 3
Thank you. And this was fun.
00;23;28;08 - 00;23;35;06
Speaker 1
Thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Dig Insights and don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.