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Away We Go We Go follows the journey of Sophie & Jordan Epton, an American couple who moved to France with their 10-month old twins, and the crazy adventure that follows. We dive deep into what it's really like moving and living abroad as expats, interview others who have taken the road less traveled, provide travel tips, discuss how you can do hard things to change your own life, and everything in between.
A year and a half ago, we risked it all and moved to France. We'll
be sharing about our life abroad, how people could do hard things to transform
their own lives and everything in between. This is Sophie and
Jordan Epton. Welcome to the Away We Go We Go podcast.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Away We Go We Go
podcast. Have you ever thought about what it would really be like to
pack up your entire life, kids, pets, memories and
all, and move across the world for a brand new chapter of life?
Today, I am thrilled to welcome Erin Alba, a fellow
expat who just made the leap with her family from California all the way
to Provence just three months ago. We thought
Erin's story would be so unique for the podcast because it's really rare
to find someone brave enough to share their journey this early. And you guys, she
is raw, vulnerable, and incredibly honest about what her
life has been like in France thus far. From the excitement of
chasing a long held dream, to the real grief of leaving
behind a beloved home and community, to the messy, emotional
and very real realities of settling into a new life abroad,
this conversation has it all. In our chat, we dive into how
travel and family shaped her decision to move, the roller
coaster of emotions that come with uprooting everything, and what she's
learning as she builds a brand new life in Provence. We also talk about her
dreams for the future and how she's chronicling her journey through her
substack Chasing Provence. I know that you're going to find so much
courage and clarity in Eryn's story and maybe even some inspiration
for yourself if you've ever thought about making a bold leap yourself.
So without further ado, Eryn, welcome to the podcast.
So I am sitting here with Erin Alba,
who is a fellow expat, and
she and I have been dming for a while on Instagram
and we both thought this would be an amazing idea to have her on
because she's actually being very brave today. She
just moved here not even three months ago, at the end of
May of 2025, and she moved with her
husband, her two young children, and her three
cats all the way from California to Provence. And so
we have her very fresh, very,
maybe we'd say raw, to give us a really
wonderful perspective. And Erin, I have to say
I am so impressed that you would do this
because when we first moved here, we were in
no state to talk about our lives
and to, you know, really get into it because it was such
a crazy time for us, moving with our twins and just getting settled
and so I'm really excited that you're here today. I'm so
excited to have you tell us all about your story, the ins and
outs, and just really explore
the real. I think this is going to be a very real, honest, amazing
podcast today. So welcome. Thank you so much for having me. And I definitely.
I think you're right. In the back of my mind, I'm like, am I insane?
Because this is such a fragile time. I can't promise at one point I won't
get emotional. Oh, that's fine. Get emotional. We're all good. It is.
It's such a. I think it's such a raw moment in time because
it's just so real, and I've been stripped of anything that's
familiar. And so you really kind of get down to those really honest
emotions and honest experiences as well. So. Yeah. Thank you.
I'm excited to share. Yeah. So I know that you just
moved from California because that's how we first connected. Because I always say it's like
the one place I would still consider living in the US
But I have a love affair with it. But. So tell me just more about,
you know, where you grew up, like, what was your life like in the US
like, talk me through all that. I was born in Northern California, San Francisco.
And they don't lie when they said that you leave your heart in San Francisco
because there's such a, there's such a piece of me that is. It's
just. I'm so peaceful there. So. Grew up in Northern California. It went to
public high school, went to state college. You know, pretty. Pretty formulated,
one could guess, you know, for living in the States. After college, John and I,
my husband, now my husband, moved to Southern California, and my
parents were in Carlsbad, so we got to do the whole Southern California thing. And,
you know, California is so great because it lends to. Lends you so many different
environments. You can be in the mountains, in the ocean, the desert. You can be
in the city, in the suburbs. There's so much to do
just in one state that you really kind of feel like it's a treat. And
so you really have to push yourself to go out and, you know, see other
things, other states, because, of course, there's other beautiful places in the world. But
growing up in California was amazing because I had to get, I got to do
all this adventure just in my state. Wine country, you know, the
rivers and Yosemite, you know, all these wonderful, amazing places.
So we eventually purchased a home in Northern California, in
Sacramento. And that's where most of our friends and other family members were.
And at the time, we were thinking about having a family. And although we did
move before we got engaged or right after we got engaged, so we wanted to
kind of settle down where everyone else kind of doing the same thing. It was
kind of on the same season of life as we were. So we eventually bought
a house in Land park, which is a lovely. A lovely place. And in a
way, it's actually very European. European because you can walk everywhere. You
can walk to the park, you can watch the grocery store, you can watch the
coffee shop, the post office. There was a train that took you into Midtown Sacramento,
which was really rare because in the US Public transportation
is not in the forefront. You don't get those. You have to drive
everywhere. And we still did have to drive, but we were very lucky to position
ourselves in a beautiful neighborhood with mature trees and be walkable to so many
amenities if we absolutely needed to. So that was unique and felt very European for
us, which was perfectly fitting. So. And I think if San Francisco
wasn't so obnoxiously expensive at the time,
we probably would have went, but we were not going to have the space
to really stretch our, you know, our legs out and be able to go do
the things we wanted to do because it was just so out of reach and
we didn't. And we wanted to travel, so we didn't want to spend all the
money on the house and not be able to go travel. And that was. That.
The fear of that was like, okay, no, let's find a house. Let's be comfortable,
and we can still go do all the traveling, and we can always go to
the city for, you know, long stints at a time. So, yeah,
Northern California, that's a piece of my heart, always.
It's, I know, it's. There's something about it. It's really funny
because, like, when my parents will go back to the States and
they'll, like, they'll complain sometimes if they're going to kind of
more like Midwest areas about, like, just the quality of food, of course, is
different. But I'm like, I just get so spoiled because I go back
to California so much for work, and I'm like, this is like, where like,
70% of the produce is grown. And the diversity
of the food is so good. Yeah, the diversity of food, too, is
fantastic. And I mean, that's, you know, it's.
We'll touch more on this, but it is. It's like, really incredible that you did
make the leap, like, having such a beautiful life in such a
beautiful state and. But just obviously, like the pole. So
I want you to talk a little bit more about just
how you landed on this decision. I know,
and I want to link this also for our audience, but I know that you
planned this amazing wedding in Tuscany for you and John.
But tell me more about just, like, your ties to Europe and what kind of
started this idea for you of wanting to move abroad. Growing up,
my growing up, my mom actually had the chance to live in Osaka,
Japan, in her 20s, and she was fully fluent in
Japanese. And I always thought that was just absolutely amazing. And
she was in her twenties. She was, you know, young, working, career woman, and had
this amazing opportunity. And she always told me as a
young girl, you know, if you have the opportunity to go live in another country,
go do it, do it married, do it single, do with your kids, do it
without your kids. You will have. You will widen your perspective
on living on the way you want to live, on the knowledge
of yourself. And so she always shared that with me, and I always thought that
was so brave of her to go do that. And she was from a very
humble military family, so they didn't grow up with a lot.
And so for her to go off and have this experience for three years by
herself being 20, I thought was just so amazing. And I think the
curiosity of travel has always been with me. You know, as a little girl,
you had friends saying they wanted to be veterinarians and doctors or
nurses. But to be honest, I wanted to be like the female version of
Indiana Jones. And I always happen to laugh about that. And I just, you know,
I wanted to discover pyramids and find skeleton keys to gardens and, you know, like,
turbines off a chateau. Like, I mean, I think there's always been this, like,
storybook thing going on in my mind as a little girl. So naturally,
I think adventure in some way was always going to be in my future. I
just didn't know how that was going to land, you know, and then obviously,
being a young professional and then being engaged and having these
opportunities to go travel, a lot of my friends traveled to Europe
many times before I finally got the chance to. I actually only have been to
Europe for the first time in 2016. So if you look at the timeline of
my life, yeah, that's actually still pretty fresh. Compared to my age,
I'm 36. And compared to
many people who had traveled throughout their youth, you know, and had these
experiences, travel, you know, studied Abroad and never did that. So I had just
been to Europe. In 2016, John and I decided to go for two months and
backpack to Europe. Well, I mean if you're going to do it, that's the way
to do it, right? Yeah, yeah. So we've been together for nine years and so
we decided to go back and forth before we got like a big head job
so, you know, and get really tied down to pto. And so we
went and he knew that my dream was to always eventually like you know, fly
my parents out to Europe and you know, show them this, this amazing, you know,
different places. And they had never been to Europe besides, my mom had been to
Japan in her 20s, but that's the only time she had done any international travel.
And so I'm kind of fast forwarding over a couple of timeline things, but
it's important to establish the fact that when we were in Paris over Easter,
we went for a picnic. It was like our one day we decided we were
going to get dressed up, sleeping, packing through Europe. So I was like, let's go
one day, let's do Easter because everyone around us will be dressed up in Paris.
Like how magical pack of picnic. We'll go to the park by the Avatar and
we'll get one good photo of ourselves to monument, you know, this amazing
backpacking trip. Because most of the time I was not, you know, photo
worthy. You know, like nowadays Instagrammers, you know, they're all got their
outfits all set up right. Rights, it was, it was very different. I was
genuinely, honestly just enjoying each moment in
different countries and just really soaking in the experience. It wasn't his
Instagram heavy back then and so. But I did want to have this one
picture. Well, of course what I didn't know is that John was going to
propose and I basically set up the whole day for him because we took the
tripod and the camera and he turned the shutter speed on high
and we go to take our photo and he's like, oh, let me go just
check the lighting or whatever made an excuse. And I see him walking back with
a little box and I'm thinking, oh my God, like I feel like I
blacked out a little bit, to be honest. You probably did. I didn't
even hear what he was saying. Like I blacked out because I couldn't imagine that
happened. And I just remember him telling me like, not only am I in love
with you, but in love with your family. And like a movie scene, like
I could have not made this up better. It started to pour
rain. I mean, the. I don't know what happened, but
it was pouring and everybody was running from the park. No one came
prepared. It was not supposed to be a rainy day. And we sat on this
bench. I don't know why I had an umbrella. I don't, baby,
because I'm over prepared. And had one in my bag. But we sat under this
Brella and soaked in this moment and just felt
like, oh, my gosh, like it's been nine years together. And so that was very
special. And so of course, that's us again. Like me getting to experience Europe
for the first time. And what really topped it off is the next day he's
like, we have to go to this cafe. It's an amazing cafe. And I walk
in and my parents are sitting there in this cafe in Paris.
I was in shock. I said, oh, my gosh, what are you doing here? And
they were there to celebrate our engagement. He knew this was so important to
me. It was such an emotional moment for everyone. And we ended up spending a
week in Nice. It's a beautiful apartment together. And so they had this.
And what I didn't know, he did such a good job. I mean, nine years
together and he pulled this off. I'm still in awe about it.
And what I didn't know is they got to spend a whole week in London
leading up to meeting us in Paris. Oh, that's because he didn't know what he
was going to propose. So they were on standby.
Like ready to, like, take the child. Yeah, he's like, you know, fumbling with this
ring, trying to keep it hidden for like six weeks, you know. So, you
know, having that experience, obviously was. Was really wonderful. And
we went home and of course we're on a high, but knew, I
always knew that Europe was going to be in my future some
way. I knew I wanted to have family there. I knew I wanted to have
access to travel. And after that, two months, of course, you know,
getting engaged was very special. But all those experiences during that time were just
really monumental for me because I just felt. It's hard to
explain. I just felt very calm, more inspired. I didn't feel as
much anxiety. There wasn't much white noise and advertising and the
pressure of just like meeting up. You know what they say, what's the term?
Keeping up with the Joneses, you know? Yes. That doesn't really
exist here, which is amazing. I came home just extremely inspired.
We both did. And I knew instantly that we were not going to be
of a couple that was going to get married in the U.S. it just we
weren't fitting that we weren't ticking those boxes. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
The great thing about the world is that there's something for everyone.
And we were not a 300 person wedding. We just weren't. And we
were financially going to be covering our wedding and we just knew that wasn't going
to happen. And I wanted something adventurous and more intimate.
And so that's when we decided that I was gonna plan
and plus, I always had a passion for curating environments and events.
And my background is interior design, architecture. That's what my degree is on.
And so, My degree is in interior design. That's so funny.
I have this already, this formula in my mind of how I function
about being in a space and being in a different environment. But I love giving
that back to people. It's just something I'm so passionate about and creating these
experiences. So, long story short, I planned our wedding in
Cortona, Italy, in Tuscany for 22 of our guests, for a whole week,
for seven days. We got married in the middle of the week. I literally
did the flow of the day. I mean, I had a full on spec binder
of everything. And then my wonderful day of coordinator
Francesca, who I hired because I couldn't be on the microphone
cueing the violinist and then also walking down the aisle, you know, we had,
we had a FaceTime and she's like, oh my gosh, Erin, what are you doing?
You need to be doing this for the rest of your life. Like, are you
kidding? I don't even feel like I should charge you. I said, no, Francesca, like
I need you to be me, you know, here's the binder.
So that ended up being a lifelong friendship with Francesca. And
not only was it my wedding day, but it was probably one of the most
proudest projects I've ever done because the guests at our wedding just
say how amazingly beautiful their experience
was in Tuscany. It wasn't just about our wedding day. They really got
to experience the local chef and you know, museums.
I really did off off the beaten passings. And they really felt like they
got to experience a place, you know, through obviously the
event of our wedding through that week. And we all connected. It was all like
just a big happy family. And it just, it felt like one
of those summer nights where you just end up on the patio having dinner till
midnight and it just felt warm and perfect and you wake up to
the kitchen a mess and wine bottles empty and everyone's Just like happy
and calm. And that's what it was. And it was just so perfect. And so
that's kind of how we ended up, you know, planning our trip, you know,
our wedding in Italy. And so there was. There was a
lot of Europe and traveling in your world.
And so, I mean, when you think about,
you know, why you ended up in Provence, like, talk to
me more about that and just, you know, why. Why this ended up being the
place you wanted to move to. So every time John and I traveled, we'd
always ask ourselves, is this the place we see ourselves? How do we feel, feel
here? How do we fit in? And of course, there was many tempting, beautiful
places. You know, you always see those jokes, like, I'll ask my vacation looking up
apartments to buy and seeing if I can have my life here. You know, And
I am definitely guilty of that. You know, I have in my mind, I have
a Cotswolds cottage and bunnies running around. And I'm also like a young,
hip, single, you know, professional London, you know, and then it's like. Then I have
like my Parisian short bob in Paris, you know, like, it's like I have all
these versions, but which one do I choose? You know? And so, you know,
we always had a good laugh about it. Like, you know, we tried to lean
into the community and not to do the touristy things because we really were trying
sweet spot. So we got married, fast forward, and we knew
we wanted to start a family, but we thought, okay, let's have one last freedom
vacation before we lock ourselves down with kids. And no one knew Covid
was happening at this point, by the way. So this is all pre Covid. You
know, you need a mark on the timeline. Covid for everyone's going to be a
good slash. So we decided to go to Greece with another couple, and it was
great. And then at the end of the trip, everyone broke off into their own
seven days, and we came to the south of France. And I had always had
it on my list of places to go, so I just told you that. So
we stayed in this cute little apartment at ecosorg. And it
looked over at the little cathedral that's there in the center and the market
down below. I mean, the shutters were flown open. You know, I bought my little
market bag and, like, things were just perfect, right? And
we had only been there maybe for four nights, and we were
taking a walk and we just felt. It wasn't like fireworks went
off. We just both felt so calm and so
peaceful, and we were just Our minds had slowed down,
our bodies had slowed down. It's when you come to Provence,
then even the most stubborn person will eventually slow down.
It just makes you slow down. I keep saying that,
but I looked at John and I said, oh, my gosh, are you thinking what
I'm thinking? He goes, this place is. There's just something about it. And I
said, do you see yourself having a family here? Like, do you. Could. Could we
do this? So we had this, like, really great kosher conversation.
And for some reason, the night, the morning. The next morning, it was market day.
And I woke up, and I don't know why, but I had this
thought in my mind that just wouldn't leave, that I should check to see if
I was pregnant. I don't know why. I cannot explain it.
I just, like, it wouldn't. I just was like, do I check? Do I not
check? Do I tell them that I think I am? Like, do I? Do I
maybe not say anything in case I'm not. Like, I don't know. Like, you
know, it was our first go at maybe being pregnant as a young married
couple. So I was like, I don't know what I should do. So I finally
told him. I was like, oh, I can't. It's not leaving my mind. I'm like,
literally, it's bothering me now. Like, I can't function through the day, like, just thinking
about it nonstop. So I was like, okay, I'm going to. I'm going to see.
So we're sitting in this little apartment, and I said, he's. So I take the
pregnancy test, and you wait a minute. And he's like, do you want to go
look? I said, you know what? The woman always looks first. Why don't you go
look? You know, here I am, like, passing off, and I feel like I'm going
to throw up out of nervousness if he goes. And he's. Is. The same smile
I saw on his face when he was approaching me in Paris for our engagement
was the exact same smile I saw when he was coming out of the bathroom.
And I knew instantly that it was positive. I knew that I was pregnant by
seeing his face. Wow. And I just. He has a picture, and I'll have to
share with you all these. I'm just, like, I completely
shocked that it actually was positive. And so for
us, that was a very pivotal moment. But it's important to call out that we
had this very kosher experience and conversation the night before about
how we felt, because why wouldn't we feel like that if it was reversed.
Right. So you would, of course, felt like, this is a special place. You just
found out. You just had, you know, you're pregnant with your first baby. And of
course it's magical and. But we very much had that conversation
before we found out that kind of important, you
know, milestone in our life. We go home, I have a normal
pregnancy, normal world, and then three weeks before my
maternity leave, the whole entire world shuts down and it's Covid.
So it was crazy. There was no one bringing us lasagna. I didn't have
balloons in my room. Like, it was just wild.
And everyone says, oh, you had a Covid baby. And I guess in the timeline,
yes, that's true. But Fynn was very much planned and sought
after Covid, however, was not planned, and we didn't plan to have
a baby change plan a little bit. So we couldn't
travel. We couldn't travel with a new baby. We were worried. We were
always had Provence in the back of our mind. Like, was that place real? Did
that happen? We were just yearning for that peacefulness again to go see if
that was real. So we decided to. As soon as he
turned 2, we, my husband got permission to work three months out of the
south of France, and we booked an apartment and we went and lived in Issa
Zorg for just shy of three months. With Fynn being two. I call it testy
tooth. I don't like to call it terrible tooth, because I actually love, love H2.
I might be crazy. 2. 2 was really cute. It was, like,
wild. But that's when I really started to, like, love being around them
because they were starting to, like, say sentences.
In all the ways, but independent enough to, like, have little conversations with you and
show you, like, their little personality. So for me, it was like a sweet spot.
So I love too. So it was really special to get to spend that three
months with Fynn. And we. We traveled. We went to Barcelona and Morocco and
London, and we did all the things from our trip. And of course, we hit
the ground running on research in Provence. We went out and looked at different regions,
understood amenities, looked at different schools. I mean, we really tried to peel back the
layers of what you see on Instagram or as a tourist.
That's incredible. And it's something that, like, we've talked about so much
on this podcast is, like, it's so important that you really do your research.
You go and spend time in places you think you want to, and you think
about, like, the real things, because it's not a vacation. It's. Yeah. If you have
kids, where are they going to school? Where are the grocery stores? Where's the hospital?
What's the cost of living? Like, you know,
seriously, like, all the good things. Yeah. So I love that you
did that. That was very sweet. So we came home. We had the wonderful three
months. It came back, and I found out I was pregnant with my second. And
at that, Covid
had kind of cooled off, so things were a little bit more normal from what
we had known life before COVID but we were used to being on Parent Island.
We didn't have any extra outside help. So my husband was working
all the time. I was, I was the forefront of the house and the kids.
There was no time for creativity, no time for hobbies. Most of my
friends were working full time, and it just was
now a balance of, for him and I. We knew we
wanted to go back there. We know. We knew that this was the part that
we were going to have to start making monumental decisions in our
everyday life to get us there full time. And an important
piece of what I have to share also is because I knew Europe was always
in my future in some way. I had started working on my dual citizenship
with Italy many years prior to having children. Oh,
amazing. It took 11 full years to
do my full. From getting all the documents with my grandmother all the
way to the point of actually, last fall, finally getting our
Italian passport for both me and my children, which I call my golden
ticket, because I knew that I wanted to be here with my family. I knew
the visa process could be difficult, and I had this window of
opportunity to go through the Italian 1948 law, which
allows me to go not through the consulate, but to hire an attorney to represent
us in the court of Rome. But you have to have all your documentation, which
can take years. And then, of course, you have to wait for your appointment. And
Europe is slower, so, you know, you have the
offer. In Italy's even slower. So it was a, it
was a lesson of patience. And so I had that going on in the background.
And so with that had already been a good six, seven years already
going. John and I were like, we have to set a date. Like, he looked
at me, he's like, we have to just set a date. Like, how do you.
How do you. You're at home in a house that you love,
in a garden you grew with these beautiful memories of your children, a
community that supports and loves you. How do you choose a
day to literally just set it all free. It doesn't.
I don't want to say there was just one conversation because I think we had
been in conversation for so many years. And as our season
of life slowly changed to being parents, that conversation
switched to the point where we really had to ask ourselves what
are the fundamental reasons why we would change what we love? Because
not only were there things we didn't love in California, but there was things
that we did love. And so we had to talk about that over and
over again. Because when you do get this idea of like you're going to
whisk your family off and in my case live in Provence and have
this experience with my young children, it's easy to
convince yourself that that's the right decision when you think about all the things you
don't like back at home. But when you start to set the date and you're
on the countdown and all of a sudden 80% of what you own is gone,
you're signing your house over to someone else, you're saying goodbye to neighbors,
all of a sudden all the first start turning into last, last
Christmases last big birthday for Fynn in the backyard. You
know, as a mother, all of a sudden this roots that we had made in
California were slowly starting to become dismantled. And all of a
sudden first we're now becoming less. And there's nothing more
sobering than realizing there is a date that you have to be on a
plane on a one way ticket and that's it, that's. That is the end of
the chapter that you chose to close. And it can be really intense. And I
think people don't realize that there's a whole other grief portion to
leaving your life that you know and that you built to go try
a different one. For sure. I think something that Jordan and I talk about a
lot is that when you make a move like this, it should never
be because you're trying to run away from something, you're running
towards something and if you're really running towards towards something, there's still so
much that you leave behind. And like yeah, we had lived in our house
for 10 years. It was where my kids were born. Like we technically got
before Jordan and I went to Argentina to get married, we did a JP
ceremony in our backyard. Like there's. Yeah, your house holds
so many memories and like that's one of the hardest things I feel like probably
to let go of. Yeah and I think for the house, for me it's such
a choking point in my emotion because for especially having gone through
Covid with A new baby. It was such a safe
place for us. I mean, we really. It was like, literally, they say,
the baby bubble. I mean, this was our bubble, like, to the max, the
max definition. So for me, letting go of it and
setting it free, as my neighbor told me so beautifully, because I just choke up
about it so much. It was such a tangible piece of my motherhood.
And in a way, it was me accepting that Fynn was eventually going to be
in kindergarten, that he wasn't going to be this tiny baby. And I was closing
this chapter that I felt so emotional about closing, thinking, like, like,
will his next room ever smell like him in the ways that I've had for
the last five years? You know, you start to realize, like, your
decisions you're making. And not that we ever doubted our decision. We were always
very confident in that France was going to be the end goal. But there
was, I think, a lot of us parents, especially as a mom, you know, grief
we had to work through. And. And some days we were like, there's no way
we can sell the house. We can't, we can't, we can't, we can't. And then
other days, like, well, we have to, like, there's just no way of having one.
When you do this. Some people have the privilege and opportunity to have
one foot in, one foot out, and that's amazing because you have that safety net.
But if you've done any research about buying property in
France and the process, you know that there's a lot that needs
to happen up front. And capital gain selling in the U.S. you know, it's kind
of sticky. So we didn't want to have to deal with losing the
equity on our home. Had we established residency after, you know,
selling it and then losing that, that. That equity difference. So we had to have
those really tough. No, that's a really good point. Now, that's also why,
like, we. We kept a rental in Austin, but it's going to be a rental
for a very, very long time. But our house, we felt that way. We're like,
we. Because of that reason. Like, if. So for anyone listening, if you don't know
if you sell your home and you at
that point have residency, at least in France, you have to pay
taxes not only in the US but in France as well. And it's the capital
gains percentage in France, so you're double landing.
Yeah. Especially if they hadn't rolled off the capital gains
threshold in California in particular. I know it's three years, so we had Already
superseded that, but it was going to be close to 30% on the French side.
And I was like, oh, that's the dream house money. You
know, we gotta. I can't. We can't keep it for sentiment. But it was still
a very difficult. In fact, even we ended up selling it off market
to a lovely family, and it was the closest
you could get to keeping it in the family. So that was a very beautiful
opportunity that we got. She kept Fynn's playhouse in the backyard. Wants him to be
able to come back and play. So I'm so immensely grateful for that because it
definitely helped that part of my heart heal in the sense of, like,
I could never come back or something. But even then, it was still an emotional
decision. And even going through the selling process was like, are we
doing this? And I have to sign. Oh, my gosh. Like, what are we doing?
You know, you kind of look at each other like, are you out of your
mind? Like, most of our friends are just trying to get the kids to sleep
on time and make soccer practice and do the school projects and, like, keep the
rhythm and go out to baby to go to the grocery store on the wrong
day, and they've been a nap, like, and we were blowing it up. We. We
set it on fire. I mean, we set any rhythm, any
normalcy. I mean, we burned it to the ground, and you burned the boat.
And sometimes, like, we'll just be, like, walking, you know, I don't know, a
co on at sunset, getting ice cream with the kids and even saying that loud.
I'm like, what? You know, and. And we look at each other, we have a
laugh because we're like, oh, my God. We don't have a house. We've sold
literally 90% of what we own. Like, and I'll talk about this later, but my
husband's French contract didn't come through 48 hours after we got here.
So as of tomorrow, he won't have his job. So talk about. Oh, my
God. We talk about possibilities of that happening. We prepared for the worst, you
know, case scenario because you have to try and prepare as much as possible different
scenarios that are going to happen when you show up. So, you know, you kind
of look at yourself and you're really excited, but other times, you, like, look at
yourself and you're like, look at each other. You're like, were we absolutely out of
our minds? Like, just, does someone need to babysit us? Like, what were we
thinking? You know, I'm sure you can attest to. To that.
So I want you to talk a little bit more because I
feel like, obviously you talked a little bit about the visa process, because it's. You
kind of. What was nice is that you already had your, you know, family
because you. You got citizenship by, by this point, which is incredible,
because that just, like, bypasses. That bypasses so many things.
So just in terms of, you know, the actual moving process
and, and moving day, what was that like for you and your family?
I think, because we do. It was coming for us once we
set the date, and it was hard when. When someone asked, how did you choose
what day? For us, it started? We tend to start looking at it from more
of a formulative perspective, because if you look at from an emotional perspective, you
probably would. You probably would have never left, because, you know, when you get
emotional, of course you want to stay, right? Because
in our case, we didn't leave something that was broken. There were things
fundamentally that weren't matching how we saw how we wanted to build
our family. And those became really important through Covid.
Through political changes, through experiences we were having personally. And
of course, for me, Europe was always in the back of my mind, and then
finding a partner in life who agreed with a lot of the ways that
I saw my family and the way I saw myself thriving in that case or
each other. And so we decided, okay, let's try and get there the
spring before Fynn starts kindergarten, or in this case,
I think it's like senior preschooler. And then he'll graduate preschool, and we'll
move, and he'll feel like he was important, and he got to, you know, go,
you know, have his time before he starts. And at the time, Rue was just
on the eve of turning 2. She turns to June 3rd. We showed up May
23rd. So as far as experiencing a toddler in Europe in summer,
we had done it when Fynn was 2. So that was familiar to us. So
it made sense to do that, a new baby.
And then my husband had just finished a year of intense
work, so that was kind of coming up for airtime for us. And then obviously,
in California, selling a house in the spring is ideal because
that's just when the market opens, so we started to kind of line that
up to be around springtime. So once we set that date,
I think in the beginning, it was more of, like, just purging what we know
we didn't need, like, the obvious things. And then it started getting down to,
all of a sudden, every weekend was having to just
inventory our life in a physical sense. Like, what are we keeping? What are we
getting rid of? But it was interesting because as a
parent, we were maintaining a life we were building in
California while building one that we wanted to go to at
arm's range. So it was a very delicate balance of
emotion and physical demands because Christmas was still
upon me for them, you know, not packing, like, not separating them from
having their holidays leading up to May. Right. Birthday was going to be in
April. He was going to turn five. You know, we're going to have those buddies
over. Was the whole house. Was I going to dismantle this room? Like, how
am I going to get everything on a boat? The little things we got in
time without stripping his room, you know, so it was like a very. For
two years, I felt like delicately balance packing things the way we knew we wanted
to keep it, labeling it, and then also getting rid of everything that we knew
we weren't going to keep, but then also maintaining the environment for our children. I
mean, it was like juggling balls. It was crazy. I throw my hat off to
you because when we moved, our twins
were 10 months old, so they didn't know anything about what was going on.
And. Yeah. So I think that it was easier for us to sort of be
like, you know, we like, moved into our rental house after we sold
our house for like two months. But it's like they couldn't have cared. They were
just learning to crawl. So I mean, that's amazing. Like, just. Just you're. Yeah,
I didn't even think about that. Like, if your child is over the age of
three and they really know what's going on, like, yeah, that's a lot to juggle.
I've always been extremely aware of his environment, and I would love to say that
it's because of all his traveling experience. When he had with two with
us, we took him to four or five different countries during that
three months we were there with him. And because I know he was very
environmentally sensitive, like me, we started warming him up to the
idea of moving to France. And do you remember going and having a great time
and riding the little race cars in town and going to the market? So we
were very. We chose to be very inclusive of our
conversation with him. I think it's easy to think that if you're going to move,
maybe you just don't tell your kids last second, thinking they have no choice other
than to accept it. But for us, that. That wasn't really me and John's style.
We really wanted to include him in the decision and we
didn't have to say, we're selling the house, it's never going to be yours. But
are you okay sharing the house? Can they take care of your garden for you?
You know, are you excited about new school? You're going to kindergarten anyways. You can't
stay where you're at. Everyone's going to be, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So
we warmed him up to this idea and, and kids
are so resilient. I mean, he was excited for the adventure they are.
There was times, of course, he said he wanted he was going to miss his
neighbors and some of his best buds. And then I told him, I said, that's
the beauty of life in travel, is that you can still intentionally
maintain those friendships and experiences and still go have this
adventure and this new atmosphere. So I think leading
up to, especially the day of our move, you know, we knew this day was
coming. This is going to be, you know, very. Luckily the
gal who bought our house wanted to buy a lot of my furniture. And
so I got to keep the house for the most part, but very familiar for
Fynn, which was very great. For me, that was like so
amazing because the dining room looked the same, the living room looked the same.
You know, it wasn't stripped and empty and hollow. You know, I mean, it was
obviously very empty, but for the most part, things were still there.
And I, if I didn't know it, if I was so naive
before not to realize it so bluntly. All of our friends and
our neighbors just kept showing up with
pizza and extra hugs and extra
goodbyes and you know, I took out, took extra bags of
just junk or trash from us and we were like, where did this stuff come
from? Like, I just emptied this closet, you know, and they just kept showing
up and loving us through. Probably the hardest part for John and I, when we
really had to say goodbye. Don't want to get emotional, but you know,
the more. The morning we had to go, it was a race to the airport.
Of course there's still a million things we have to do. You know, it's just,
it's just, it's just. It was like an Olympic race for us. It just was
insane. Like no matter how much prepared preparation we did, they were still going to
be last minute things. No, the reality, the reality of
stepping on the flight
and being like, this is it, we burned the boats. And you have everything
essentially with you that you're moving with. And it's like, it's so
Intense. There comes a point where the ship is going to
leave and you're on it, and there is no
going back, and there's no stepping back into that chapter
in the capacity in which you were in it anymore. And we go to leave
the house, we're packing the kids in the car, and all of our neighbors came
to the front yard, and they were hugging us, and they ran down the street
waving to us, and all of us. Oh, my gosh, that would be so hard
to, like, leave at that point. The knot in my chest.
Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I had to keep it together,
because if Fynn saw me lose my mind, he would
have lost his mind. But I think the love and support of our community that
we had built there really carried John and I to that endpoint, to that last
day of that chapter in California. And I think we'll always be so grateful for
that. And they continue to send postcards to Fynn to
check in on us, to ask us how we're doing, to welcome us into their
homes if we want to come visit. And we're so grateful to have that support
system, because you really need it. When you strip yourself of your
community. You do. You really do. I think it's. And also, it's just
like, it's being really picky and choosy about who you're surrounding yourself
with, because everything is already so hard that
when you decide you want to make the move, like, you cannot be around naysayers,
you cannot be around negativity. You need to be around people who lift
you up, who make you feel good, who are positive, because it's already hard. I
think it does. Especially. I feel like in some ways, like the husband,
when you have kids, they kind of get to keep their friendships a little bit
steady. But as a mom, you know, especially having. After my second.
My second baby, it was a learning curve. But I think in the
end, it was very good that I realized that sometimes
old friendships are not going to match your new season of life, and that's okay.
And you're watering dead plants, if you will, and you have to change and
remove yourself from these toxic friendships or relationships that are not
serving your family in the way that creates joy. And
I get the seasons of life change for other people, it's not always going to
be on the same beat, but you don't want to go home feeling bad about
yourself as a mom, or go home and feel bad about not being able to
have time with that friend. And so I think a revamping of that
after my second Child was a big wake up call to really, like
you said, finding your people, finding your community,
that allows you to feel good about yourself and feel good about your decisions. Because
at the end of the day, whether you're a working mom, a stay at home
mom, whether you're a single mom, whatever version of that is for
you in your life, you're just doing the best you can. And that's all that
matters, that you're happy, that your children are happy, wherever that may
be, whatever version that is. We're all just trying to do our best
and serve our families in the way that we find joy. I mean, we
only get one life and John and I talked about this all the time. The
fear of staying in one spot was terrifying to us. You know, we had spent
36 years in California and we did all the things with our kids, we did
the state parks, we did the, you know, all the trips and stuff, but we
were kind of feeling burnt out on it. We were feeling like we needed more.
And life started turning in into feeling like we were waiting. We didn't want to
wait. We didn't want to wait for curbside pickup. We didn't want to wait for
a fun Costco trip. We didn't want to wait for PTO holiday to come. We
were feeling like, just like we were waiting. And it did. It wasn't enough for
us. And not to make it sound like bougie or anything, but
because when I said to people, oh, we want to go live in Europe, we
want to travel with kids, we want to go do all these things, people are
like, oh, well, that's cool. Like, of course. Why? Who wouldn't want to go? They
whisk their kids off to Barcelona on the weekend and, you know, Paris on
a Monday or whatever it may be, but for us, it was so important
that they're culturally diverse that they eventually had a second, if not,
if I'm lucky, a third language that they get to lean into being in
different countries with that amazing opportunity to speak that language and
connect with community on that level. And yeah, it was
important that we got to be intentionally present with our
children and not feel like we got. We were in a rut. For all
intents and purposes, we felt stuck and we were not thriving and we
didn't want to experience our childhood like that. So as
many comfort levels as there were at home and as grateful as we were for
our beautiful house, for our community, there was also a big part of us that
felt like even though we earned it and we worked so hard for it. There
was just so many versions that just weren't enough for us. Yeah. And
that's okay to say. I think it's. Yeah, you're right. You have
one life and you have to do whatever version of that looks and feels good
to you, you have to do. I think having that honest conversation is
probably the first hard part because you're admitting things that people
might judge you on, you know, or that you feel like, well, oh, you're saying
you're too good for to be here. You're just too, you know, or whatever that
however they may receive that, you know, you can't. You can't own it. You
just have to know, like, the reason why you're coming, the fundamentals on why you
want to be in that other place and, like, what's not working for you. And
of course, we explored the option of, like, maybe husband working less. Like, was there
something broken that we could have fixed in state and felt
better? Like, so we explored that and that was all through communication, you know,
having those honest and hard conversations. And sometimes we saw eye to eye and
sometimes we didn't. But that's okay because I think that's also like, kind
of going into, like a marriage like, you're not always going to be on. He
had a very successful career agency company for 15 years.
And I was feeling like I had been home with kids through Covid five
years, burnt out, no creative business for myself and just feeling like, done.
I don't want to have to do another Target pickup. That should not be my
excitement for the week. I need more to be a good mom. I need more
to be a good wife. What is this that I'm searching for? But fundamentally,
it was. It was changing the atmosphere for our family, I think was the
ultimate, you know, giving our kids that different type of childhood. Yeah,
I love that. We feel the same way. So now that
you've been here for. You're getting close to three months
now. Yeah. What has it been like for you so
far? Yeah. And what's your whole experience
been? I think we talked about a little bit in the beginning, or you may
have mentioned it briefly about, you know, you show up to a new
place and you feel like you're on holiday and you feel very safe. And
like, you know, you. In the back of your mind, almost in your subconscious, you
have this safe landing place place. You show up with no safe landing
place. And it doesn't feel like you did when you were on holiday. And I
think that can be a very sobering experience. And so
it got real, real very quickly. And I remember
we, you know, finally landed in Marseille and we had a, a
hotel just for the night, just to kind of decompress and off the big flight
with the cats and the cats in the bathroom. It's 2am oh my gosh,
the three cats in the bath, they were so soft. That was so sweet. You
know, my. Luckily my mom flew with us so I had the support of her,
which I'm so grateful for. If you have kids, like
rule number one, make sure that someone is traveling with you
that's willing to be your wingman because impossible. Say yes. Say yes
to the help, say yes to the check ins. And also feel free to say
no, no, I can't make it to the last minute birthday party. No, I can't
because you're just going to stretch yourself so thin. Like it's, you know, when you're
already feeling so thin. But we get to this hotel and it's, you know,
we don't own a house. Our substance, a tiny little storage unit. We only
have what we have. The cats are in the bathroom. We finally get the kids
to bed at 2:00am because just, you know, they're toddlers. And
I just, I think holding my breath for two
years and holding it together for everybody and even for myself,
it just followed up. And to be honest, I think I knew it was coming
for me. I knew the title wave of emotion, of getting from the point
in which we came home from Europe pregnant with Fynn, to the point of
like departing that day and everyone waving to us down the street. I knew that
tidal wave of everything else holding him was coming for me. And it did. And
I, I had to go wake John up. I was having like a serious panic
attack. I thought I need like oxygen because I think as a mom, you know,
I had my whole rhythm of life slipped out from underneath me.
How I keep my kid, how I make my kids safe, how I have the
routine of even just like where to put their underwear, what snacks they like at
the grocery store. Like just the background of life with
kids. You just, you get it figured out and then you can maybe do a
little bit extra for yourself or maybe do a little bit vacation with your family.
And that just completely slipped out from underneath me and I just felt like I
was free falling. And we were so grateful to have a house,
furnished house that we are renting. After a year of searching to come
home to you. Yeah, it was wild. But I just, I think I
needed that really good cry and that really good moment of just
straight fear. Like I had just bungee jumped with no
gourd. And I was hoping to God that everything we dreamed about, everything
we researched and everything we sold was gonna be worth it. And I was gonna
land where I wanted and thought to that I thought I was going to.
And so coming here the first month was an absolute fog. Like the kids
had jet lag so bad I was like at the grocery store trying to
find the right Costco chippies for my 5 year old who insisted on having his,
his favorite snacks. The cat litter was too
dusty, so it was creating a mess. The washer was leaking. I mean the water
heater went out for a week. I mean it was not me frolicking
lavender field by any means.
I have to just interrupt for a second and say that I talk about this
a lot, but especially I think being able to talk with you and having like
a fellow mother expat moving is that
it is such a different experience moving with small children. Like
it's life is going to be hard wherever you move. And then you add the
extra layer of challenge. It's a lot. It's not
yet if you move here, like single or with
someone, no kids, like, yes, you can go the first day, you can go
frolic in the. Fields and you can even go. So you're
also delayed in creating community because you have time and
you have, you're answering hard questions. Like, I remember this, you know, a
weekend. Fynn looked at me and he's like, oh my gosh, Rami. Like, who
am I going to invite to my birthday party? You know, and so you have
that element of, of experience that you're having to hold
for your children as well. And not only your own as, as a
couple or as an individual. And so it can feel quite heavy
at times. And you know, it's, it's tricky because I, I
fell victim as well to portraying this very
beautiful setting and Provence, which is so beautiful and
there is markets and there is accessibility to travel and you talk about
healthcare and childcare and education, right? There is all those great
fundamental things that we came here for and that are there,
but there is also. You have to work for your community.
It's not just going to find you. You have to go find it. You have
to go find it. You have to be out of your comfort zone. You have
to have your crap French. You have to be embarrassed by it. It's just,
there's just no way. It's not going to come to you. You have to do
it yourself. And for your kids, you have to approach the mom at the park
that you maybe has a little bit of English or, you know, you know, maybe
they might seek a little bit to get by, maybe make a play date. You
know, you have to create that community for your kids. You do not. That's, it's,
it's. Oh, so many good points you're bringing up because you just,
it's, not only are you dealing with a language barrier, but you're also
dealing with people that aren't American. They're. We
talk about this all the time. Like, like French. To me, they almost remind me
more of like very, very East Coast Americans where it's like they're
kind of a hard shell, but once you break it, they're like the nicest people,
but it takes a minute to break it. So it's like you're dealing with all
these different elements and then it's even hard to have the time to
like spend to find community. So it's, it's just knowing it's
going to take longer and that's okay. And I think, also I think this can
be very like regionally different too, because us were like closer to the
Luberon Valley. You have a lot of visitors, so people that I meet are only
here for a short period, so there's no long term relationship to be
building. And so the friendship opportunity kind of gets swept away
really quickly. And so you have to just keep trying again and trying again.
And so to be in a very tourist heavy location too, you run into
that. So it's not always going to be people that live here that you can
consistently build rapport with. And so it can be,
it can be tricky, you know, to show up. And then I think
for, for us, and I'm sure it's, it's
hard to put into words, like the feeling of it all, like knowing that you
have, you could have it all figured out back at home or home, you know,
and then showing up and then like, this is your home and you have absolutely
like the, the background fundamentals of your flow of your life are just completely
gone. Like the flow of laundry, the flow of dishes, what products you're
buying, what the products are, what your kids like, what you don't like. I mean,
poor Rue, she came here with her water shoes and grew out of them and
she had no shoes. I had to go find shoes for her because her feet
grew so fast. And I'm like, where do you buy kids shoes? Like, you know,
like, I'm like, You know, having to search the alleyways of acts for kids
shoes, you know, and then humorously, you know, I got everyone here, everyone
had their little survival pack. And I realized three days in
that mine had not been on the plane and that was on my
undergarments. So I was washing the same three items every other day. Oh
no. And I was like, okay, no problem. The washer's broken.
I'm gonna need to go buy some underwear. Like, you know, and my friends are
like, you know, have you flew the London yet?
Like, you know, did you? And I'm like, not quite. Not. Not. Not
quite. No, this is very real life right now. So
it's. It's. You are not gonna show up in the same
capacity in which you did when you're on holiday. Even if you're with kids. It's
just not going to be the same. And I think moving countries,
you know, being in California is also a melting pot. Being in San Francisco is
a melting pot. So I grew up with the privilege of being among other cultures
and languages because I was amongst, you know, a bigger city
and I was not the
minority back in California. But here, all of a sudden,
I'm minority, and I am out of, you know,
the normalcy as far as, like, where I'm coming from. So I
have such a deep respect for people that come from another
language or come from a different culture to a new one because
they are working so hard, so hard. And I
know that there's days where they just feel so exhausted
and so defeated because I have those days, I have those weeks
where me and John wake up and we're just like, oh, my gosh, we're so
excited. We just want to go back home and take a nap. Like, you know,
but there is no home. There's not going to be a nap, you know.
And so I think I have a great respect for people that
change their life. Whether they choose to do it or it was by accident,
they stick with it and they work hard for it. And I would like to
say it's easy, but it's not. It takes work and it takes time and
patience. Yeah. And you are. And again, you're so fresh into this,
but I think it's so great for people to understand. Like, it's
not like a movie. It's not easy. It takes. Takes so much grit,
so much courage, so much tenacity to do what you're doing.
I think my. My biggest advice to someone, if they were to
say, like, you know, I'm thinking about moving countries, you know, what would be
something you tell me. And I would. I would tell them, honestly, giving yourself
grace to have to. To take that time and
rest. I felt like I needed to sleep for a year when I got here.
And I don't think it was just jet lag. I think it was just the
emotional experience that we went through, you know, with
our kids, with, With ourselves letting go of our house, setting free this life that
we had built, and we were very proud of. And emotional awareness is
such a big one, because when we got here, I felt like my husband was
enjoying red wine and floating in the pool that I'm like,
I have to go buy undergarments and keep asking me for chips. And
I don't know if you've ever. Well, I know, you know, but the grocery carts
in France are an Olympic sport, okay? They fly
360 and you gotta hold on for dear life. I have to wear tennis
shoes there. I've made the mistake of wearing sandals and, like, busted my foot on
the wheel. So, The first
few weeks was not holiday for me. It was survival mode. And then it switched
all of a sudden. John was like, we gotta get down to work. And I'm
like, oh, no, no. I just got everyone sorted. I'm gonna take a break for
a minute. And so time to relax a little, you know? And then finally we
got on the same beat of, like, balance. But it was. It was kind of
comical because I'm like, no, no, it's my turn for a break. You know, I
just found what chip he likes. You know, I. Now I know I need to
wear tennis shoes and have a Euro in my pocket at the grocery store and
not go on Sunday at 11:59, you know, so
it just was like. It was like, no, we, we. It's my turn
to. To kind of lean into this part. So obviously you've
talked about a lot of things that are good and hard, but if you could
just sort of see, summarize it. What do you think are, like, the best
part so far about living in Provence? And what are the things that you
immediately are like, I miss home. This is really, really hard.
We'll start with the good things. The best parts for us, I think, as parents,
having a supportive foundation for us to spend
our energy as a family and be more intentional about being
present with our children is by far the number one thing. Because John and I
are not as worried about access to childcare, cost of education,
access to health care. Whereas in California, you don't even want
to know how much I was paying for two days a week, and the fact
that eventually my second was going to need that was just going to blow us
out of the water. Especially because I was home with my child for four years
at that point, not working because of COVID, I was pregnant a second time.
Etc. So, I mean, everyone's family makeup and timing is different. Well, and then just.
And just the cost. Women have to often make a decision whether they want to
work essentially to pay for daycare or if they're just going to stay home, which
is just a horrible decision you have to make. Flying domestically to visit our parents
in Virginia was just, you know, so costly. And,
you know, my husband had a really healthy income and a great job.
And like, even then it was like, my gosh, like, California is just getting
so expensive. Like, we can't keep living like this and think we can just
fly off to our European vacation with our kids. Like, we're just gonna have to,
like, like, do that once every four years. And we're like, okay, no, like, that's.
That's crazy. Like, and so being able to have that foundation
for John and I, to be able to focus more energy on being intentional with
them and then also being able to take time for our own creative dreams
and aspirations is, like, one of the best parts about living here. Like, and
as, you know, like, access to other countries, you know, access to travel
and again, regionally specific. But for us in Provence, it's just.
You drive at any time of day and it's. And it's just so stunning and
so beautiful and it's quiet, you know, and we don't have.
And something that I noticed last time we came home, which was reverse
culture shock. I think you mentioned this when you're talking about when you had a
trip to San Diego, like the reverse culture shock a little bit. There's no big
signs in your face saying what you should buy or where you should go eat,
like in California. And I didn't really realize
how much anxiety that was giving me. Just the
overstimulation of things constantly in your face
in America. And then here you kind of. It's not like
that. So you just kind of really get to lean into your environment and really
kind of take a deep breath and be very present. It really allows for that.
You lean in, you lean into yourself. I feel like. And you'll, I think
you'll really experience this. I think you're going to have an incredible renaissance
for yourself here. Because I feel like when I came here
and I'm Going to talk about this more in another episode, too, but I felt
like being a mother had sort of broken me open and
I wasn't. But then also making the big move. It was so crazy,
but it was like I was so overstimulated for a minute. But then being able
to sit in a little bit more stillness here has allowed me to
really define what I want, like, the next 10 years of my life to look
like. And I don't think that I would have been able to do that, that
had I not had this, like, quietness and stillness.
So I think the same is really going to happen for you. Yeah and, I
think in. In one of my entries on Substack, I kind of talk about
dismantling pieces. Like, you know, kids will break you down, you know,
and you will see you have to look hard in the mirror and. And have
these hard conversations with yourself. And. And each time I've had a child now,
too. You rebuild yourself in different ways and. And
you leave behind pieces. Least you try to leave behind pieces, pieces that didn't fit.
And, you know, when I'm having a really hard day here, I
try to remind myself I get this amazing opportunity
to redefine how I'm going to present myself to my family,
to myself, to the world, to hopefully one day
the creative business I want to have and the friends that I keep and the
business partners that I keep. Like, I have this amazing opportunity to get
to, you know, redefine that and leave old, bad habits
behind and really consciously, like you said, have that quiet time
to really ask yourself what is important and how am I gonna. How am I
gonna take this into my next chapter? Yeah. And okay, so the
worst part. Okay, so I. It's. It's funny because
I'm not gonna lie. I will admit I love my iced coffee. I love my
iced coffee. And it can all be found in the wrong value. There is one
place in. In Lumuron that has iced coffee. She knows me now,
but it seems silly. Wow. You're gonna be her best client.
Of course. AC Is tough. You know, Sacramento is hot. Probably just as hot,
if not ever so slightly hotter than Provence, but not having the comfort of just
being able to cool off because you're not acclimated to the heat. Oh,
yeah. People have been hearing me about this on Instagram for weeks. It's.
It's. It's the hardest part about living here, to me, is the summers.
They're hot, they're crowded. There's no relief. It's really difficult.
The heat can be really intense, sense. And, you know, Michael,
you see these, these older women and, you know, older season of
their life, and they're walking the hottest market looking so chic and unbothered. And
I'm like, that's my, that's what I'm aiming for. That French chic
woman over there not breaking a sweat. Like, I'm over here looking a mess, you
know. Oh, my God. Like an AC you know,
so, I wouldn't say, I think for me, I think it's regional. I
didn't expect to feel so isolated with food now.
Provence is very gastronomically motivated. They have beautiful
dishes, access to fresh food. But at the same time, I
will admit, and not ashamed to say it, I come from a place where
there's diversity of food. I can go get Chinese, I can go get Greek food.
I can go get Mexican food. I can get Mediterranean food, and it's all
really good versions of it. Like, I had just the
most diverse palette in front of me to choose from, and it's
a little bit harder and, you know, like, bigger places like Apps and
Avignon, maybe in Paris, there's more diversity. Again,
this is very regionally specific for me, but being closer to LeBron Valley there,
and it's starting definitely comparing our experience in 2018
to now, there is definitely more diversity when it comes to that
palette of spice, but again, not as much. I have to go
seek it out. And I am a foodie. I'm a foodie at heart, and I
want to just not always have the same thing and either. And I don't mind
changing the palette of my life with the food here, but I just, you know,
I want an empanada, I want a cheeseburger. I
want the Greek food. I just love the spice. So for me,
that's kind of hard for me to feel isolated when it comes to food. And
I guess it might be silly to say just one would think maybe something different,
but for me, that's where homesickness sets in, is the diversity of the food
here in the region. Well, and California has, I
mean, to me, like, it's the best state for food in the whole country.
So I think when you went back, took a picture of your tacos, and I
was like, it's only been there for two months. Like, look at those tacos.
We're going back in October, and I'm gonna be doing the same thing, tacos
every single day. Like, I can't wait. No. So, no, I, I, I,
I think if You're a foodie. We're definitely foodies. We plan our trips around food.
I think that if you, if that's such a huge part of your life, it
does, it's a little bit of a, like even I was, you know, telling
Jordan the other day, I said, I feel like it's in some ways easier at
home to get stuck. The food is incredible, the produce is incredible. But it's
easier to get stuck in a rut here making food because
you can, There are, there are a lot of places and I live in Axton,
so it is different. There's more, but it's, it's,
it's so much more time consuming and effort to
seek out like to go to the, to the Ding Dang. That's like the
specific like Asian food store to get what you need versus like being
in America where everything's like generally all in one. I think it also speaks
to like the, what's the word? You know, the
quick fix. Like in America you can like go through a drive through, get what
you want or like pick up something within two hours at Target.
Yeah,
that is definitely something. It's convenient. Biggest trade off to me. And also it's a
mindset too. Like I have to change my mindset. Like I'm not in a place
that is instantly serving me. I have to do work,
I have to follow up. Not to sound. I mean, yeah, I guess you could
call me lazy, you know, because you get in these, like, these, these, these
comfortable positions where what you can't. It's easy, easy to be
lazy because it's so accessible and it's so easy just to go
and fix whatever you need fixing. But here it's not like that. You have to
be consciously and prepared, you know, and to
follow up with anything. With food, with your, with your kids, school supply
list, you know, I mean, literally everything. It's just, it's just a
different mindset. I mean I, and I can't blame myself. I grew up in California
for 36 years, you know, so, you know, giving yourself grace to like
start to adjust your mindset and what you expect.
Yeah, and it's not going to be overnight. I mean we're
still, we're two years in and we still are getting frustrated about certain things.
Like our dryer just like is
acting up. It's less than a year and a half old.
I think the electronics here or like
appliances that are made in France. We don't have a dryer.
I use the line and fit things. Yeah. We're using a line wrap because
it's such a process to fix it. It's not like you can just call someone
and like, boom, it's done. It's there and it's. Yeah, so it's. You're
right. Everything. Everything. Before I forget that I would have liked to
touch on when we were talking about kind of like the adjustment period here is
the sensory differences. Like, you know, I joked about, like, not
being able to maybe have Fynn's little voice smell in his room because,
you know, we had had that same room, but like, you know, I was using
the same kind of like, soaps and same kind of like dryer
sheets and. And my perfumes that I don't have. Have. And so all of a
sudden, like, our clothes smell different, our house smells different
and all. It is very. It can be very disruptive and very
shocking because you had your little. I don't mean to sound weird, but, like, you've
had your. Your smell like your family house smell, like your. Your favorite candle
was lit. You know, you build upon this in the sensory environment that
you have that's no longer there. So you're just feeling so out
of place, you know, because even the sensory portion of it, like your comfort
meals, the way your clothes are smelling, it's all different.
Like, people don't think about that part too, that you have to
redefine. Spoken. Spoken like a true writer. Like,
no, it's true. It's. It's sensory is so. It's such a big part of
how our brains, like, see the world. And it's like your brain is
almost like working on overlooked. It's trying to catch something familiar. And it's like,
yeah, it's like catching air. And some days you're just like, you know, you're at
a parking here in Asia. Hi.
And it's. You don't just freak them out and make them run away, you know,
but it's kind of. I make a joke that I kind of feel that way.
When I was at home with my kids, the mailman would come by and my
husband be working all the time. He'd be like, oh, hey, how's it going? Like,
you know, he's like, oh, she hasn't talked to him in another adult in like
three days. You know. So
funny. So I think
let's kind of wrap up with a few questions about
kind of where. Where you're heading and just some advice
you could give. So if you could give three pieces of advice
to someone wanting to move abroad, and maybe specifically to France.
What would you tell them? I think the first part, and I. I thought about
this, I made notes about this because I feel like giving advice, like, holds such
weight to it, because I think that it's so easy to,
especially now that social media is so big, to see this image, to see this
house, to see this location, think, oh, that's it. But, or, or
if I move my life, it's going to be like that, right? Or it's going
to be similar to that. I can make it like that. I think the first.
First advice I would give is you need to have very honest conversations
with either yourself, your partner, your family, and really
ask yourself, why do I want to move? Why do I want to change things?
What are my ideal expectations and what are the things I'm willing to
compromise, truly, because if you don't have a solid
foundation on why you want to go, it's going to probably be that much
more harder to show up and not know what you're working for. And even now
we have goals, but some days we don't know what we're aiming for because they
have to change. We have to pivot. Like I said, my husband's lunch contract fell
through two days after we got here. And now, now
we are going to have to pause buying the house, pause buying a car. We
can't even lease one. You know, you have these pivots and you have to
set. It would be harder to show up with absolutely no goal
in mind of why you want to, even if it's just like, it's for the
kids or it's for us or it's for my business, if you're single, you know,
whatever it may be. So I think having that honest conversation with yourself often or
with your family and partner is important to make the time to come.
What you see in a short snippet is not going to be what you see
in person all the time. There are a lot. There's distance in between
towns, there's distance in between amenities. And again, sometimes for me, this is regionally
specific because the Rong Valley is spread out into many other provincial towns.
And then you have kind of the anchors, which is like Axe and then Avignon
and Marseille. So you have these anchoring towns that kind of have others around
you. So what does that mean? What does that mean for your family? What are
the things that are important to you? Like, for me, well, before we went, I
was like, oh, yeah, I could live in a stone house, like, you know, in
a farmland. And we could drive 15 minutes into town. And now that I'm up
on a hill with neighbors around me, I'm feeling really isolated. And I'm like. Like,
maybe I need to be somewhere more walkable. Maybe I need to be somewhere where
I'm running into people like that. Storybook is slightly changing,
but to not ignore that, to acknowledge that and don't feel bad for it
and don't feel like you're giving up on that dream, you maybe just need a
different version of that. So trying to make time to come here and do the
research, find out where the schools are, where the amenities are, the drive, distance between
things you want to do, make the time to come. It might be an expensive
go because you're there temporarily, but it will pay you freefold in the end
because you didn't just show up to the place you thought you wanted to be,
and you realize, oh, my God, this is not what I wanted. This
is not what I thought. This is because especially when you have kids, you know,
you're trying to create stability at some point, at some, you
know, during the line there. So I would say make time to come to the
location you want to be at or you think you want to be at. And
the other one is educate yourself. Not only with just Facebook groups, other
expats, but hire a tax attorney, hire an immigration
attorney, pay yourself first with education,
professional education. Because not everyone's financial situation is
the same. Not everyone's visa fits in the same type of
box. It is going to be different for every single person and
family. It doesn't matter what the other person's doing,
or maybe they've had an easier way or a harder way. I know a couple
that came here and learned from London and had to go back temporarily
and then come back again and then go back one more time and then come
back again. And it is. I've. Yeah, I've known stories like that as
well. And no, it's. It's true. Because they didn't know what the rules
were. They didn't talk to someone. That's why I. I get. I can't even tell
you how many DMS I get all the time from people being like, how did
you do it? And I'm like, it doesn't even matter. How I did it. Answer
that question. You need to. Yeah, you need to go talk to an attorney, and
they will, like, literally write out what you need your life to look like in
order to make a move. The end. Because they know evaluating, like, the current life
you're in the comfort level which you're living in and understanding
what that looks like after it's gone through the filter and translates into the new
country that you're living in. Because you can't show up expecting, like, you know, you
talk about French bureaucracy. You can't expect to show up, and it should
be like it was before from whatever country or location you're coming
from, it's going to fall differently. And you have to understand
as much as one can. Of course, there's still things we're learning, there's still things
we're figuring out, navigating, and you're not just going to show up with the perfect
booklet of, of, you know, professional advice, but you, you're, you're gonna,
you, at least you'll have talked about the different routes when you shop and what
that looks like. And I think if you, if you really focus on those three
things, everything else is going to be experience that will accumulate
into maybe setting that date and calling it and, and,
and making that decision to go and to set free what you may have to
set free in order to, to do it. I think, I think you can't
rely only on what you're seeing online. You have to be. You
have to go in person. There's just no other experience other than being
on the ground understanding how you feel and what's around
you. That's, I mean, all such amazing pieces of
advice. So thank you for that. Just like reiterating that. So
I know that you are, like, planting some seeds
right now for some fun, some fun new,
I wouldn't say, like, adventures and, and just ventures in general ahead
of you. So talk to me about, like, what
is next for you? What do you think you want the next year, ideally to
look like for you? I think being at home with
my children has a lot of time to think about what I've
been wanting to do and how I want to use my creative skills in the
world. Once they were in school and not needing me as much every
single day because they have, you know, rhythm of school and things like this will
be the first time, actually next year, early next year will be the first time
I have both the kids in school and I don't need the help or.
Yeah. So, you know, stepping out of motherhood into,
like, back into like the business world or the creative world can be a bit
intimidating. And then you layer on being in another country has another
intimidation aspect of it. But, you know, after,
after doing the wedding for John and I in Italy, I
really felt passionate about intentionally
creating small events for people. It didn't have to just be a wedding. It could
be a dinner, a celebration of life, a birthday. Just because I think
that, you know, there's this amazing opportunity, especially in
Provence, that you see. And it's not just about the tourism. There's
amazing artisans here that have had amazing talents in their
families. There's amazing chefs that have been cooking for generations.
There's farmers that have beautiful lands that are telling these amazing
stories through their food and through their produce that are just. They're not. They're not
just at the market, you know, selling cheese. Like, there's so much that goes into
it. And so for me, I really want to have a small boutique events
business where it focuses on 30 people or less, give or take,
that want to come here. And it's focused around the seasonality of Provence, whether
that be a small wedding, whether that be a birthday, or just
because. And working with local vendors and getting to not only
celebrate that story or that event, but getting to celebrate where we're at
and giving homage back to what Provence is all about and honestly,
and why it drew me here. You know, the beautiful nature, the
wonderful people we run into, the artists that are so
unapologetically passionate about what they do. It's just
so wonderful. And just to sit down at a table or to be amongst that
is, to me, so beautiful. And I kind of did that
rendition for my guests at our wedding when I took them to Tuscany, and
I kind of peeled back the layers of what you see online and gave them
this one week. And of course, our wedding was in the middle. And to me,
that's really exciting, and I really love to provide that kind
of experience and environment for people that want to come and have
that little piece of Provence in a very authentic
way. And then also feeling like it's okay to come and discover
little pieces of yourself that you didn't know existed and to learn about
yourself and to be in a different country and to
celebrate parts of your life. I mean, I found out I was pregnant at East
El Sorg, you know, and I got engaged in Paris. And these are all things
that linked me, you know, and coming back to Europe and having this very
peaceful feeling, we felt like we were better versions of ourselves here. So I think
having those experiences for you and your guests, whether it be family or friends or
co workers, is. Can be very important on the timeline of
celebrating milestones in your life. And I'd love to be a part of someone's of
story and doing that so planting that seed and starting to
build. That is really exciting because then that also allows me to connect with the
community and. And make friends and understand what. What's around me
and. And the rhythm of the seasons here and. And. And everything that goes into
that. And so, yeah, that's. That's really exciting. That's really
exciting. I think that you are gonna do some wonderful
things here. I'm like, I'm thrilled. And then you also have a sub stack where
you're talking. Yeah. So tell me, tell me, like, all the things where people
can, like, find you at this moment and if they want to, like, follow your
journey, like, through the next year of living here. You can find my Instagram
at Chasing Provence, and I also have my substack, Chasing
Provence, where you can really read about. You know, we
talked about the raw, fragile moments of going through this journey as
a. As a mother, as a wife, as a creative individual.
I think, think that in some ways, not that
I'm trying to prove the world wrong, but I think. I think it's
important to be candid and honest about what it means
to change your life and how much work and emotion and sometimes even
grief goes into doing that. And especially,
I think, for women and young girls that have these ideas of how they want
to have their life, and it's easy to get caught up online and see versions
of. Of that, but you really have to ask yourself, what. What do you
want? How do you see yourself? What do you want to build, you know, for
you or your family? And so my writing is just a way to marry
these emotions to words and to share our journey in a very
raw way. And sometimes, like, I've had. I've had readers share with
me that it was like reading in my personal journal, and it almost felt
like they were peeking inside of it, and they shouldn't be. But to be honest,
I feel proud that they feel that way. Because if
you're not being honest with the world and with yourself, most
importantly, then you're not going to create a community that feels
authentic and that feels like is similar to you and
to what you're trying to give back to the world and what you're trying to
give back to yourself. And so I am honest in my writing. And
so, yes, I write on my Chasing Provence substack.
And I have to say, being here, even in our
hardest days as parents, piecing our life back, in this
version, you know, I lay. I lay in Fynn's bed at night. He
still has to have me contact to sleep. You know, he's
fine. And you know, you know, you worry all day. You just spin your
wheels about, my gosh, what did I do? Was he gonna play T ball like
he would have, you know, or whatever? Like, who I gonna invite
his birthday? You know, they ask you these hard questions and you're doing all these
hard things, but he looks at me and he goes, mom, me. You have to
kiss me goodnight like the French do, and then proceeds to kiss me on each
cheek. And it's like that moment that you're just like,
they're soaking it in. We're here, we're doing it. And you
see, like, my daughter met the. The man who's
very sweet in our neighborhood. He's been here for generations. His family comes from a
generation of farmers. And he invited us for a little appetizer
outside of a. Outside his house. And the gal we're renting the house from said,
oh my gosh, she doesn't have anyone over, you know, so we felt very honored
to go and, and have this experience. And I'm watching him feed
rue olives, you know, and he's just lighting up around children
and she's just loving it. And we had a sweet neighbor live next door to
us. He's just our heart. We call. We call him Uncle. I won't say his
name, but anyway, you know, uncle. And. And it was really hard to leave him.
And so, you know, having those experiences with these people and
seeing your kids do that and create to slow down, also have less
screen time, be interested in trying new foods, you know,
culturally soaking it, and makes all the work that you did
and all the work you are doing just feel so worth it. Because at the
end of the day, if someone wants that, you have one time to answer one
reason why you came here. It would be for my children, you know, and the
future that they are going to build here. And to have access to other cultures
and to feel like it's okay to have two ways home,
it's okay to call two places home. It doesn't just have to be one. And
it's okay to thrive in other locations with other people and to
maintain those friendships. I think it's going to be such character building. I agree.
That's exactly what I was going to say is character building. It just because in
the reverse, when we were in California, we were maintaining friendships here. And
now that we're here, we are intentionally maintaining friendships in California. And we still
will go back and do Disneyland, Anaheim, and we'll still go back and do San
Francisco and we'll still go to Tahoe. We will still, still show them
the childhood we had and experience those joys from sitting like a fly on
the wall, watching them get to do it. And that will be the reverse. Intentional.
You know, now that we're here, we're going to intentionally maintain those friendships. So, yeah,
that character building, like, we came here for our kids to give us. To give
them that experience. And to be honest, it's fun for John and I because we
kind of feel like kids again. And we didn't have that back stuck in our
rut. We didn't. We felt so overworked. Yeah, you're, you're
exploring and. And you're figuring out new things. Yeah, it's a new
feel. And it feels exciting and
scary. Feels terrifying. Very much so. But also
extremely exciting to feel like, wow, we did it. We
showed up. We're showing up. We're still showing up. You know,
I just feel like I can't predict the next week by, you know, the sketch.
Not to say that there's not going to be some rhythm and schedule, but in
some ways, there's so much opportunity to really switch it up at a drop of
a dime here. And to us, that. That feels exciting and
reinvigorating again, not only as a family, but as a couple and then
individually as creative people. So Provence is already giving back, you
know, such. Such beauty and opportunity to us, and we're just so grateful,
even though there's days what. Where we are absolutely terrified. And sometimes
I'm in tears because I know how I'm gonna do this for my kids. It's
such a back and forth. But that is life. That is. That is
emotion in the raw. And that's. That's going to happen no matter where you go,
even if you stay. You know, he was going to go to kindergarten. We were
going to have to change things, you know, whether you stay, whether you decide to
go. The things we talked about can be applied to, even if you're
staying put and you're. You're making big pivots and changes in your life,
it's not just if you move to another country, you know. So, yeah,
Provence is already getting back in really beautiful ways. And we're excited. Well,
I am. I'm really, really excited again. We're catching
you very much in the throes of the first days of moving. So lots
of emotions, lots of feelings. We'll see. We'll see where I land.
Crazy experiences, but really excited to Follow along and
I'll, I'll tag all of you know, Erin's her sub stack and her
Instagram. So if you want to follow along, you can. My business, I'll definitely be
announcing it through my Instagram. That's probably where I have my most viewers. I'm not
perfect. I'm a little fish in a big sea. And by no means am I
considered an influencer. I'm just a bomb with
dreams and I'm just sharing it as I, as I go through them. And I
hope to create a community around me that's either interested or
dreaming through me because I dreamt through other people, you know, when I was in
the throes of newborn Covid. You know, they're just, they're just
avenues to feel motivated and to feel creative and so yeah,
anything that I'm. Hopefully my website will be ready to go by falling and
I'll start making those connections and, you know, maybe I'll meet
some, some new faces and get to share a little bit of piece of
where we live, you know, you're close by, so. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, we can't wait to follow along. Thank you so much for your
time today. I really appreciate it. I think you gave a very real
and like, wonderful, vulnerable look into like, what
it's really like to move your family abroad. Thank you so much giving this
opportunity to tell your story. You know, sometimes when you do something so big, it
makes you just want to share it with the world, you know, but at the
same time, you also feel like it's so fragile and you have to, you know,
keep it safe until it's perfect. But nothing's ever really going to be perfect, you
know, it's. It's life. No, you know, it's,
life is wild with kids too, as you know. So. Yeah. Yes,
it is. Well, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. So wonderful. Bye.
Bye, guys. Thank you so much for
listening to today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe,
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