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Green Shoots & Big Shifts is hosted by Reetu Gupta, who started the show to have open, hopeful conversations about what it really takes to make sustainability part of how we live, lead, and work.
Each week, she talks with people doing innovative, meaningful work, turning ideas into action. From startup founders and corporate change-makers to community leaders - reimagining how business, society, and the planet can thrive together.
These are stories about innovation, collaboration, possibility, and the everyday shifts that move us toward a more abundant and resilient future.
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Reetu
You're listening to green shoots and big shifts. The show that spotlights the people and ideas, transforming a world for the better. I'm your host with Gupta. In every episode, I'll be talking with innovators and trailblazers. We're reimagining our relationship with our planet Earth. Whether it's a small spark of innovation or a sweeping shift in how we live and work.
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Reetu
We'll explore the stories that give us hope and the actions making a difference. Together, we are planting seeds of change and driving big shifts for a healthier, abundant, sustainable future.
00;00;41;17 - 00;00;54;19
Reetu
Hi. Welcome to the listeners this week to update your host for the Green Shoots and Big Shifts podcast. With me today we have Tom Twist from Bates College. I'm so excited to have you here.
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Reetu
Welcome, Tom.
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Thomas
Thank you Reetu. It's nice to be here.
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Reetu
Yeah. So just to get us started, I would love to learn more about your background, your journey to your current sustainability role. And you know what have been. And as you look across your career, have they been like changes in in the sustainability landscape?
00;01;13;14 - 00;01;39;20
Thomas
Yes. So, short answer is yes. And it's been a very circuitous, journey. When I first went to school, the job that I have now didn't even really exist. And I'm not even sure, you know, I would have felt myself qualified or that this would be my first interest, but my initial degree was in environmental biology, which was great, for getting the general lay of the land.
00;01;39;22 - 00;01;57;11
Thomas
I use it almost. Not at all in my, in my current role. And I was able to just try out a bunch of different jobs, to land at the one, that I'm at when I talk to students about this, you know, I tell them, you know, some people just know what they want to do right off the bat.
00;01;57;11 - 00;02;21;15
Thomas
I was not one of those people. I could get sort of cues from my heart in terms of only what I didn't want to do, actually. So I would try something and I thought, this is about it. And then I would try something else. And it was a very circuitous path. I did some, environmental teaching, early on, which was a great sort of introduction to, the field.
00;02;21;18 - 00;02;41;06
Thomas
And then I took actually two years off to go into, a Buddhist monastery, though that didn't seem like it had anything to do with sustainability. It's it's helped immeasurably, I think, on the emotional aspect of it. As you know, sustainability is not a field you get into without being a tenacious person and without having to deal with, you know, bad news coming at you frequently.
00;02;41;09 - 00;02;58;18
Thomas
So that's been very helpful. And then the two most recent roles I've had, one at a place called the Chunky Foundation, one at Bates College, that was a a real sort of deep dive. Then into what is now my field, which is, renewables, decarbonization and general sustainability, at higher education.
00;02;58;19 - 00;03;09;05
Reetu
Yeah. Thank you for that. I did not know that you were at a monastery for two years. Was that related to work or. It was just personal time, personal growth?
00;03;09;07 - 00;03;31;07
Thomas
It was not related to work. And I think at the time, I wonder if my family was like, what the heck are you doing? Not only was it not related to work, there was no money being made, etc. etc. so, I think there were some questions. From my extended family at least. But it was very helpful in that, you know, it helped me not to get it.
00;03;31;09 - 00;03;54;17
Thomas
It was very like meditation focused. And so it it really helped and continues to help me not to get bogged down with, you know, just all the, the bad news, that's coming in with, sustainability, climate change and that sort of thing. And not to ignore it either, but to be just continue to function despite the fact that it's not everything is always rosy.
00;03;54;20 - 00;04;01;17
Reetu
That is so important. If I if I may ask you, how does how does it help you? Is it you, do you have a practice or. Yeah. Does it.
00;04;01;17 - 00;04;24;11
Thomas
Help you? I try to just keep meditating regularly. Each day. And that's it's been, super helpful. I sometimes do a little. It wouldn't even be called a workshop because it's not even that formal. But for the students that I work with in sustainability as just, you know, tools to help you work in the sustainability field. And I think it's it's just one of the most helpful things.
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Thomas
Again, just to to be able to work with the reality of the situation but not feel like things are hopeless or you just feel stuck and have to get frustrated, etc., etc.. So it's been really, I think I credit it with really being, keeping me able to, to work in this field, and continuing to be realistic, but, but optimistic about how things will go.
00;04;47;08 - 00;05;29;13
Reetu
Yeah, I really love it. I think everyone, everyone should spend some time at a monastery or just learning how to meditate, like it should be a basic requirement educationally. And so both at the foundation at and at Bates College as you work on these different projects. What have been your most like pivotal experiences or projects that helped you like leapfrog or transition from, like where you were to a next phase or a huge learning that helped you like, oh, I can do things differently, because one of the goals of this podcast is to leave the listeners with, if they're trying to implement sustainability strategy in their own organizations, leaving them with, like lessons and key
00;05;29;13 - 00;05;31;25
Reetu
like AHAs. That might help them.
00;05;31;26 - 00;05;50;19
Thomas
That's a great question. I think one of the first major lessons I learned was my previous job was at a place called the Chunky Foundation, which is in Maine. And, it's a bunch of things, but essentially it's an education center. So my job there was to work on the different renewable energy technologies, but also to teach about it to the students.
00;05;50;19 - 00;06;11;04
Thomas
And that was really, like you said, an moment when I realized that I had been teaching them in a sort of classroom setting, like traditional, kind of like teacher standing up front and lecturing and that sort of thing. I remember brainstorming with a colleague and we thought, what if we just scrapped the class in its entirety and we just did projects, instead?
00;06;11;09 - 00;06;38;21
Thomas
What if we just had them work on renewable projects, actual tangible things? And that was just very messy at first, but perfect. Yeah, it was just wonderful. And we would have a mix of them coming up with projects and us coming up with projects, and we did all sorts of really like, I feel like life changing things. One of them was we had a cabin that about eight, high school students lived in, and they were wonderful.
00;06;38;21 - 00;06;57;12
Thomas
And we decided, let's what if we what would it take to take this cabin entirely off the grid? And so what we set them up with was, some solar panels, a small battery bank and a bike powered generator. And so they had to and they had a layout of their, a little dashboard for their power use.
00;06;57;12 - 00;07;17;17
Thomas
And so they had to sort of live within their sort of renewable means, so to speak, energetically. And it was just a great project and we set it up with them. We put the solar panels on the roof, we set up the bike power generator, and it was just a wonderful, smashing success. I think that was the first time I started thinking, oh, the students actually want to do something.
00;07;17;17 - 00;07;35;24
Thomas
They feel a lot of times they're getting a lot of book knowledge, but they don't know what's were they do with all this literary information. And so I think that was the first time I thought, oh, they are just hungry to to do something to make a difference. And so that that was probably the first time a light bulb went off and I thought, oh, we could do this too,
00;07;35;26 - 00;08;00;04
Reetu
Yeah. It's, just just hearing you describe that is just such a great educational experience. Like, you know, sustainability is one field, but other fields too. We go through school, we go through college. Yes, we do some projects, but once you are given that degree, you've not if you've not applied it in a practical sense, you get your first job in the workforce and you're like, how do I really apply this?
00;08;00;07 - 00;08;20;13
Reetu
And then there's that huge learning curve. And it's also great. Like they do these projects and they can decide this is not for me. It's such a great way of, you know, it really an experience of learning the content but also learning what do you want to work on and not work on as you type like. That was a great example of a project that the students worked on.
00;08;20;13 - 00;08;36;02
Reetu
It seems it was a great success. The students loved it. As you evolve the project or, you know, took it from the foundation to Bates, did you start thinking about there were certain guardrails like, okay, this is a good student project versus this is not or it was like, anything goes.
00;08;36;02 - 00;08;55;02
Thomas
Yeah, that's a good question I could share with you. Yeah, I'll be completely transparent. Sort of tell you the good, the bad and the ugly of our project. As we were experimenting, we also did some projects that were not a good idea, and one of them was to put, solar hot water panels on a roof. And I had the students.
00;08;55;09 - 00;09;19;18
Thomas
I was showing them how to do basic plumbing. So taking copper pipes and soldering them together with the torch. And that's a skill, that plumbers have. And it takes a while to acquire that skill. And if you don't do it right, then you you have a bunch of leaks, in your plumbing. And so I had maybe 40 different students working on this project over the course of a semester.
00;09;19;18 - 00;09;43;26
Thomas
And they were all kind of getting their sea legs, so to speak, with their plumbing skills. And when we turned on the project, it looked like a sprinkler. There was just water, you know, spraying all over the roof. And so I had to go back and fix everything myself. That's an example of of not not a wise project to do with the students, but it helped me define what was a good idea and what was not.
00;09;43;26 - 00;10;06;06
Thomas
So to exactly to your question, there are some things that are reasonable for students to engage with in the limited time that we have. And then there ones that are not generally ones that have to do with technical physical expertise. That's something that takes a long time to learn, is not like a great project, but technical mental expertise is a really good project for students.
00;10;06;06 - 00;10;26;01
Thomas
And so I could talk. Maybe I'll just dive right into this one at Bates. So after the Troicki Foundation, I took a job at Bates College, where I've been for about ten years, and that has been a wonderful place to do sustainability work. Everyone is super supportive. No one you know needs to be talked into why climate change is important.
00;10;26;04 - 00;10;57;07
Thomas
You know, that sort of thing. I could talk about this later, but Bates is one of the carbon neutral, schools in the, nation. We're often in the top 20 green to schools in the country. They are really very, very sustainable. And and a great they have a great ethos around sustainability. One of the projects that was more refined, I think, when I finally figured out what was good for students to do and what was not was a solar, a large scale solar project that was interested in an undertaking.
00;10;57;14 - 00;11;15;29
Thomas
And this solar array that we had our eye on would be about 75% of Bates total power. So it's a huge solar array, about 25 acres. The only problem was, of course, the same problem that everyone encounters, which is money. So the the cost of the array was about 20 to $30 million. And it's not like the college just had that sitting around.
00;11;15;29 - 00;11;27;13
Thomas
And so we engaged, some students and they crunched the numbers and they came back to us with a solution, which was, don't buy the array at all. Instead, just lease it like you would a car.
00;11;27;13 - 00;11;27;29
Reetu
Right.
00;11;28;00 - 00;11;54;25
Thomas
And I could use close to real numbers here. The lease cost was about $700,000 every year, which is a lot of money. You know, don't don't mistake that. However, the value of the solar electricity coming off that array was about $1 million a year. And so that difference, that $300,000 difference is what Bates would get every single year for the life of the lease with no money down.
00;11;54;25 - 00;12;14;09
Thomas
And so it was an extraordinary project that the students were able to do. And, they were the ones crunching the numbers, you know, the, the administration and myself trusted them with doing a good job and a very impactful, very expensive project. And so as time went on, I think I got better and better at learning which projects students would be a good fit for.
00;12;14;09 - 00;12;33;20
Reetu
Yeah, that's a that's a great example of using their skills. And it's a it's a Win-Win. They you know, I'm sure the students learned a lot through that project. And then, you know, it seems it was a net positive net positive to the bottom line for the for the college. My follow up question is, like you said, you trusted the students.
00;12;33;20 - 00;12;46;13
Reetu
Like what helps create that mutual trust with the students in the college? What like props it up? Like what's the infrastructure that helps them be successful? Because as you said, it was a high stakes project.
00;12;46;15 - 00;13;05;16
Thomas
Yes, yes, that's a good question. I think I, I was able to fail at, at a small scale in my previous job, like so the example I told you about, about the solar hot water and I was able to sort of try things out. And then by the time I got to Bates had a pretty good idea of what students would be good at.
00;13;05;16 - 00;13;24;27
Thomas
I had already learned how to trust the students, and so I think I was able to bring that dynamic. This program, which was at Bates, it's called the Eco Reps program, and it's it's just a paid sustainability position. So we'll hire about 14 different students, and they do all sorts of different job. Some of them work on our carbon footprint, for example.
00;13;24;27 - 00;13;40;24
Thomas
Some of them, like I said, work on solar projects, others work on recycling, etc., etc. and I think by the time I got to Bates, I had already established, a pretty good trust, in students. And I was able to bring that debates and bring that to this eco reps program.
00;13;40;25 - 00;13;44;25
Reetu
That's awesome. So did you did you start the Eco Labs program or was it already?
00;13;44;25 - 00;14;08;27
Thomas
It was already there. But I think because I was able to trust the students to do really meaningful work, the program really expanded. What's cool about it is it's it's this wonderful form of, mutualism for the college between the college and the students. So the students, like you said, get a great experience for post-graduation for whatever role they, they want to enter into.
00;14;09;04 - 00;14;33;12
Thomas
But the college actually gets quite a bit as well. We used to hire consultants to do a lot of the work that the students now do. So for example, the carbon footprint piece, we used to hire consultants to do that, and the students now do a better job than our paid consultant with assessing our full carbon footprint. So it's it is a nice it's like the perfect marriage of of actual tangible projects.
00;14;33;15 - 00;14;38;07
Thomas
And student students getting experience in the field and that sort of thing. So it's it's it's lovely.
00;14;38;08 - 00;14;49;29
Reetu
Yeah, yeah. A team seems like a great model. Like have you like what's making me think like do other like, have you had a chance to share it with other colleges like have other colleges been like how do you do this.
00;14;49;29 - 00;15;09;15
Thomas
Like, yes we do actually. So in Maine there's a bunch of, sustainability, directors that get together and just compare notes because we all have the same problems basically, you know, and so it's nice to sit down quarterly or something like that and just say, you know, who's doing what, who's heard about grant funding that's out there.
00;15;09;16 - 00;15;29;08
Thomas
Do you have a good suggestion for what to do with, like, let's say, a bike share program? And so on. And so forth. And so it's it's really nice. There's a pretty good there's no real though. Our athletic teams compete a lot amongst these different schools. Like, there's no real competition in the sustainability world. We're mostly just trying to move the ball forward.
00;15;29;10 - 00;15;30;22
Thomas
Right, right.
00;15;30;24 - 00;15;44;03
Reetu
That makes us, makes a lot of sense. I was going to ask you, like, do you feel there are unique challenges that a college campus would have versus like a different kind of company, or what are your unique challenges?
00;15;44;06 - 00;16;05;27
Thomas
Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is we have so many people, a lot of like diversity, like socioeconomic diversity folks, and they're living there, which I think is different than a company, though some jobs you've had probably feel like you're living there. But, you know, we're we're housing the students as well. And that's so they're, you know, we're facing them, we're housing them, we're teaching them.
00;16;06;00 - 00;16;32;19
Thomas
And that presents a lot of stuff. And there's the full range, you know, there's students that really care about sustainability. And then there's students that it really hasn't dawned on them yet that this is important. A lot of our sustainability rests on a culture of sustainability. You know, just basic stuff like energy efficiency, like closing your windows when it's February and turning the lights out when you leave, you know, not taking a half hour shower, you know, things like that.
00;16;32;19 - 00;16;33;14
Reetu
Yeah.
00;16;33;17 - 00;17;02;10
Thomas
And so and that's it's hard to get the message across and to continue to get the message across. Because we change our entire student body every four years. And so there's continual turnover. So I think those those are the hardest nuts to crack. I think the messaging to students and motivating them. Why why it's important to try to recycle and why does it matter to our our carbon neutrality goal that you keep the window like closed, like during the heating season.
00;17;02;10 - 00;17;17;00
Thomas
And they've got they're so busy, they've got so many other things going on sports and athletic or soccer and academics and etc. that it's it's hard to like break through the rest of the noise to, to, to, to get any kind of messaging through. So it is challenging for sure.
00;17;17;00 - 00;17;23;01
Reetu
Are they incentivized anyways, like do students like have you tried incentives and yes like that.
00;17;23;07 - 00;17;29;10
Thomas
Yes. Though I'm, I'm always I'm all yours. If you have any ideas.
00;17;29;12 - 00;17;31;01
Reetu
Let's Q yes, that's all.
00;17;31;03 - 00;17;45;05
Thomas
Yeah. We've tried we've tried a bunch of incentives. And those generally work competitions work really well. Competitions with the prize work even better. I think a lot of what works is what is your neighbor doing? I think that's not just true of college age students, but us.
00;17;45;08 - 00;17;46;01
Reetu
Anyone as.
00;17;46;01 - 00;18;06;28
Thomas
Well. Yeah. You know, you sort of like I think that's especially true with, like electric vehicle adoption. I think people are just kind of, you know, my neighbor bought one and it didn't blow up. And so I'm interested or they seem to be saving money. Yeah. You know, so we use that sort of, kind of what is the what is the general public doing, how they feel about it.
00;18;06;28 - 00;18;11;10
Thomas
But yeah, we, we try any, any and all means of persuasion.
00;18;11;10 - 00;18;39;03
Reetu
Makes sense. Makes sense. Shifting gears a little bit for for our listeners considering like decarbonization and sustainability strategy for their own organizations, especially if they're feeling overwhelmed by the scale and the complexity of the project, are there like any strategies or advise you would give them? Based on your experience, like where to start, you know, how to approach it, etc.?
00;18;39;05 - 00;19;06;07
Thomas
Yeah, that's a great question. I can share the the strategy that I came into Bates with. I don't know if it's the right one, but I could share it. When I came into the role, a no one had been in my position for about two years, so a lot of projects were kind of dead in the water. And so I felt like one of the first important things to do was was to garner some, like enthusiasm and get some momentum going to folks that are just getting started or feeling overwhelmed.
00;19;06;08 - 00;19;29;01
Thomas
I would say it's nice to start with a quick win of a project, but I did very early on was I just put in a few electric vehicle chargers. Those are nice projects because they're not super invasive. Like with a building, you're not insulating a whole building or something like that or working on that. It's ventilation system. It's just something that's very visible.
00;19;29;01 - 00;19;49;02
Thomas
It's not, you know, super expensive compared to other projects, and people can immediately see it, get excited about it, etc.. And so that I start doing that early on, just a lot of like quick win projects to to get the ball rolling. Those were successful. And then I was able to say, you know, look at all these projects that we've done.
00;19;49;02 - 00;20;15;27
Thomas
They were all mine. They're they're working, they're generating money. Like, can we try something a little bit more ambitious, a little bit more impactful? And then you had mentioned the word trust before. I think that is also important. So a demonstrated track record of like good project management and that sort of thing generally tends to, make the management feel more comfortable with more projects in the future.
00;20;16;00 - 00;20;21;22
Thomas
So I think that's there was a at least at Bates that that turned out to be a sound strategy.
00;20;21;24 - 00;20;48;21
Reetu
That makes perfect sense. You show success and then you can use that to garner more support. So we're coming towards the end of our first of our time together. I wanted to ask you two questions, going back to where we started this conversation about what keeps you motivated, where do you draw your inspiration to continue to drive, you know, work towards sustainability and decarbonization?
00;20;48;21 - 00;21;23;19
Thomas
Yeah, I think a big part of it. Not everyone. I wish I could say something that was transferable, but I think the students, are really helped me feel just like super optimistic. They are just wonderful. They're so motivated and so capable and talented that it's just, it's wonderful to work with them, each day. And so I think that to, to no small degree really helps me stay, like, very grounded, optimistic and that sort of thing.
00;21;23;19 - 00;21;51;16
Thomas
They're just wonderful to work with. I think that's probably one of the key things. And that's kind of a bummer of an answer, because I know not everyone gets a chance to work with college students every day. There is a lot of good. Despite all the roadblocks, there is a lot of good forward momentum with sustainability. It doesn't always make the news, but, you know, most of the power generation that got put in in, the United States last year was by far renewables, I think was 80 to 90%.
00;21;51;19 - 00;22;06;11
Thomas
And so you don't really hear about that that much. But it is there is a lot of momentum happening at some point, it it's starting to feel inevitable, which is cool. Yeah. And so I yeah I take part that that is that is the case.
00;22;06;11 - 00;22;27;25
Reetu
Yeah I, I love that and appreciate that. And that's, that's part of the reason this podcast is there is to, to to share the good news, it share the forward momentum, share all the good work people are doing. And the students, for example, are so excited and optimistic and, and ready to put in the work. So, I've learned so much in this episode.
00;22;27;25 - 00;22;35;23
Reetu
So thank you so much. I have one final question for you. If there was one word, if you could leave the listeners with, what would that be?
00;22;35;23 - 00;22;52;26
Thomas
It's been kind of weaving its way through this conversation, and I think, trust would be the word, for me and trust in the people that you work with and trust that, you know, if you do, I don't say good job, because what does.
00;22;52;26 - 00;22;53;18
Reetu
That mean, exactly?
00;22;53;25 - 00;23;11;15
Thomas
But if you make the effort, you'll see results. I know sustainability I got let me let me put it this way. I often higher end up hiring students that do a lot of long distance sports because they understand that things don't happen overnight. And I think.
00;23;11;15 - 00;23;11;28
Reetu
Right.
00;23;12;01 - 00;23;41;17
Thomas
Trust is kind of a nice word to end with because both trust in your coworkers. But trust that you will you're you're all your hard work will begin to come to fruition. And some days that doesn't seem like it's happening at all. And then all of a sudden, kind of like a light going on, you'll see the fruits of your labor kind of materials, and that's kind of nice and so, yeah, I would have to say like, I think trust would be, at least in my head, one of the most important like words, I think for my job.
00;23;41;19 - 00;24;03;12
Reetu
Yeah, I love that. And I just want to also normalize, like, you know, in my career, the projects where you're like, I don't know where it's going. And then you keep going and then like, some don't work out, but more still. So I also want to like normalize it. Like I think it's, it's it's bigger magnitude, higher stakes when it comes to sustainability.
00;24;03;12 - 00;24;10;06
Reetu
But it's it's also not an alien concept that things, you know, things get hard before they get, get easy.
00;24;10;09 - 00;24;11;29
Thomas
Yeah, yeah.
00;24;12;01 - 00;24;18;22
Reetu
Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time, Tom. And I also want to thank, our listeners for being here.
00;24;18;25 - 00;24;21;17
Thomas
Well, thank you very much, Reetu. It was it was so nice to talk to you.
00;24;21;19 - 00;24;22;02
Reetu
Sam. You.