Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast

Scott and Jamie sit down with Vinny Malts - founder of Bloodline Hockey, longtime pro, and the first mental-performance coach ever hired by the NHL to dig into the side of development nobody sees but every kid feels.

Vinny walks through his wild rise from Philadelphia street hockey, to being drafted by the Vancouver Canucks, to a career-altering ankle injury that eventually pushed him toward mindset work. He also opens up about the depression he battled every postseason, the nervous-system science parents overlook, and why so many young players fall apart long before they fall behind.

In this episode:
• How Philly street hockey built elite small-area skill without a single lesson
• Why nervous-system overload, not attitude, destroys confidence
• The truth about comparison, early bloomers, and “falling behind”
• How parents unintentionally model the wrong behaviors
• Tools every family can use to handle pressure without killing joy

It’s part therapy session, part player-development masterclass and the perspective every hockey parent needs before their next car ride home.

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What is Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast?

A relatable and honest podcast about the highs and lows of being a youth hockey parent. Join us as we share real stories, struggles, and wins from the rink, offering insights and support for parents navigating the world of youth hockey.

Jamie:

Okay, everybody. Welcome back to episode 42 of the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast. The podcast I'm sorry. The unfiltered podcast for hockey parents. No politics.

Jamie:

No sugarcoating. Just real talk for hockey parents in the trenches. And

Scott:

In the trenches.

Jamie:

I screwed it up now too.

Scott:

Yo. That's okay, man. Man, I messed it up. You messed it up.

Jamie:

Yeah. Back to back.

Scott:

Yeah. All good. We should go to the school for children that didn't read so good.

Jamie:

Seriously? Jesus. Why I don't have it memorized by now is I'm not really sure.

Scott:

No. Well, you know, it's all good because yeah. Don't know. Because it's all good. Doesn't matter.

Jamie:

Yeah. Anyway, how's it going?

Scott:

Yo, my man. What's happening?

Jamie:

Same old same buddy. Just had another day. Another day. Go ahead.

Scott:

No. It's the hat. That's that's what's doing it. It's the hat. USA hockey.

Scott:

Bob Mancini for

Jamie:

our our USA hockey gear.

Scott:

Yeah. I love it.

Jamie:

Right? So cool of him. Very so cool of him. Yeah. If you guys if you guys haven't yet, go back to episode 40.

Scott:

They're super comfortable.

Jamie:

Bob Mancini. Greatest.

Scott:

I'm this one. I'm gonna

Jamie:

rock Looks this good on you, pal.

Scott:

Thanks, buddy.

Jamie:

No problem.

Scott:

Anything that'll cover any part of my face usually helps.

Jamie:

I don't like your facial hair.

Scott:

Nah, I don't know. Speaking of which, it's getting very gray, you know.

Jamie:

I do know the feeling.

Scott:

You know, that happens, of course, but you know, it's just sometimes like you just turn a corner with things like my beard is very noticeably gray in spots and my vision's going. You

Jamie:

said that actually.

Scott:

Did you

Speaker 3:

go to

Jamie:

the eye doctor?

Scott:

Yeah, the eye doctor said my vision was twentytwenty, but I which apparently can happen even if you have a hard time reading.

Jamie:

Okay.

Scott:

Like a distance, I was

Jamie:

good. I

Scott:

read all the numbers from distance.

Speaker 3:

Did you?

Jamie:

Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Didn't catch my you didn't catch my anchorman line, did you?

Scott:

Because, you know, I don't actually have that movie so committed to memory. I know. Listen.

Jamie:

Well, that's your fucking problem, first

Speaker 3:

of all.

Scott:

No shit. Clearly. I gotta watch that a few more times.

Jamie:

Yes. That's almost like a prerequisite.

Scott:

And by the way Yeah. Talk to Chicklets just had Sean Avery on. No. I think it was last Friday's episode. They've talked a lot about movies and dropped a lot of movies that I wanna go back and listen to the that interview just to jot some of them down because there's a bunch on there that I was like, well,

Jamie:

Which ones can you re can you remember any off the top of your head?

Scott:

Yeah. They talks a lot about this movie and apparently in previous episodes as well, but heat, I don't think I, I don't remember watching heat.

Jamie:

With, Val Kilmer and, Robert De Niro.

Scott:

Yeah, think so.

Jamie:

And, wait, De Niro and, Al Pacino, if I'm not mistaken.

Scott:

I don't know. I honestly don't know. Anyway, but there was a bunch of movies I was like, oh, I haven't watched like a lot of these. So god's catching up

Jamie:

with Dude, heats long.

Scott:

I know. It was like a double VHS cassette when it came out. Was like nineties. Dude, listen to this. Speaking of double VHS cassettes.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bro,

Scott:

Freshman in college. I'm listening. BU Terriers. Let's go. Mhmm.

Scott:

I had never watched a double it's like a double VHS Double VHS movie. It's a movie. So I was a freshman in college and we have like the small little TV on the refrigerator that, you know, you could feed VHS cassettes into and

Jamie:

The built in?

Scott:

Yeah. It's only built in. And I don't know. It was just like a lazy Saturday and the girls next door to me, had a Braveheart. Never saw Braveheart.

Scott:

So I was like, oh, sick. Free. Definitely gonna watch this. So bro, listen. Listen.

Scott:

So I've never watched I've never watched a movie with two VHS cassettes. So I turn it sideways and look at it. I take the one on top and I pop it in and it starts. And I was like, oh, this is weird. Feels

Jamie:

like there's no,

Scott:

there's no like, kind of like intro. It just kind of like starts. And I was like, that's weird. Didn't ever never cross my mind that I put in the second tape first. So the first time I've ever watched Braveheart

Jamie:

You watched from the middle. I watched the You watched the last half before the first

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Jamie:

So have you have you never seen the beginning, Scott?

Scott:

No. No. No. I watched the beginning. I I mean, of course, I watched it.

Jamie:

Dude, that's After I

Scott:

watched the end.

Jamie:

That's so so it's funny. I thought I thought you were gonna tell me something else. Like somebody like dubbed porn over the movie or something like that.

Scott:

No. That would have been a pleasant surprise.

Jamie:

Listen, I mean, not the worst thing in the world. Right? No. But that's funny, man. Oh, so you watched the second half of the movie first.

Scott:

Yeah. Jeez. Like, talk about an idiot.

Jamie:

Well, listen, it happens.

Scott:

No doubt. Few, few blunders happened in college. There was a Yes.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Scott:

I know. You know, I can't even say I was drinking when I watched that movie backwards. I was like straight sober, Just not paying attention. Yeah.

Jamie:

Listen, it happens. You know? Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah.

Scott:

Yeah. Hockey. Hockey. How'd you do? You you you had to showcase my guy.

Jamie:

We did. We were down in like the Philly area.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah. You do a downtown or what? You're always good for a downtown.

Jamie:

We were nowhere near downtown.

Scott:

Yeah. They never are when they say it's in Philly.

Jamie:

We were no we were no we were like we go like South Jersey, Southwestern Jersey.

Scott:

Did you hit up Main Street in Southwestern Jersey?

Jamie:

I don't even think there is a Main Street in

Scott:

Southwestern Anyway.

Jamie:

There was, we missed it.

Scott:

Yeah, got you.

Jamie:

But, yeah, it was, I'm not gonna lie. It was an exhausting weekend, man. We had two 7AM games. Yeah. I mean, that was awful.

Jamie:

We two seven ams and two like three thirties.

Scott:

Yeah. I mean, I didn't go to Otto's Law Showcase, but they had the same thing.

Jamie:

Yeah. The times were not friendly, you know?

Scott:

No. Were your kids allowed to

Speaker 3:

go to the pool?

Jamie:

I don't think there was a pool.

Scott:

Oh, okay.

Jamie:

Yeah. I don't think our hotel

Scott:

had been Well, solves for that problem.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Listen, that didn't stop them from running around the hotel like lunatics. Oh, of course.

Jamie:

But I'm not gonna lie because our games were so damn early. Yeah. Like, after we got out the games, like everybody went to eat breakfast, you know, to that killed like another like, hour and a half, two hours. So all of a sudden you're out like noon.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Right. And we had to leave it like 02:30 or two or 02:30 be back to the rink. So there wasn't a ton of time for the kids to really get into trouble. You know, I got to tell you, they mostly like hung out in the lobby on their phones. Know?

Scott:

That sucks. Why you die? Know, forget no pool, fucking no phones.

Jamie:

Dude, you're not wrong.

Scott:

I would let my kid go in the pool every day of the week before like he fucking sat in front of his phone and became a scrolling like You're not wrong. Idiot.

Jamie:

Yeah. So so it kind of like limited their time to like get in trouble. I mean, still got in trouble. Don't get me wrong. At the abstract Saturday night, we came back to the hotel after our game, and we ordered like, one of the moms ordered like pizzas and cheesesteaks and just all shit that none of us should have been eating but tastes

Scott:

shovel it

Jamie:

in. Yeah,

Scott:

shovel it in.

Jamie:

You know, so we were hanging out in the lobby and the kids, like our entire hockey team piled into the elevator. Like 20 kids just piled into the elevator.

Scott:

So it sounds about right.

Jamie:

Yeah. They got yelled at by Did

Scott:

they stop?

Jamie:

I don't think they actually got it moving, but I think, you know, but the the the yeah. The, the employees at the Marriott

Scott:

We're not feeling it.

Jamie:

Not that happy with us.

Scott:

Dude, when I was in college, I had a I had a bunch of classes with football players. So be so lame. My freshman year, they cut the football program.

Jamie:

I remember that.

Speaker 3:

I fucking remember that.

Scott:

Crazy. One of my buddies who's local here in Jersey

Jamie:

don't don't have a football team. Right? No. To this day.

Scott:

But, one of my buddies was on the team. Anyway, it got they got so anyway, so I'm

Speaker 3:

on the

Jamie:

Now did he have a scholarship?

Scott:

Yes. And I think they it wasn't a full ride, but they honored it.

Jamie:

Oh, okay. Alright. Even though they bounced the team, they they honored the kids that were on scholarship?

Scott:

I'm pretty sure.

Jamie:

Okay. So they did the right thing by the kids.

Scott:

That's why. Anyhow, what I was gonna say was I was in classes with a bunch of football players and the building had an elevator. We were on like the I think the there was like the bottom floor for the elevator. I think it was like one below ground. And Right.

Scott:

All everyone all the football players thought it'd be funny to pile in the elevator while it was already full. When I say all the football players, not the football team, but it was like at least like four or five of them.

Jamie:

Max capacity, 35 Dude, 100

Scott:

we're on the Ground Floor. Mhmm. The door closes. The elevator goes down.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I'm yeah.

Scott:

Like, it sunk. It sunk into, like, the area

Jamie:

weight that was

Scott:

Dude, it sunk into the area where it's like, you know What

Jamie:

it's not supposed to go to?

Scott:

Yeah, totally. And then they oh, so the elevator ended up getting pried open. The and the door stayed open and so we're like climbing and pulling each other out of the fucking elevator. Nice and pile in an elevator story.

Jamie:

Nice and safe. For tonight.

Scott:

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Jamie:

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you do in college.

Scott:

So all the, you know, that right. We're talking about kids that watch the second half of movies first. So in any event, real geniuses. Okay. So it was a long weekend, exhausting, but how did the kids do?

Jamie:

You know, it's funny. Now that I think about it, we went

Scott:

One and three?

Jamie:

We went one and three.

Scott:

Sounds like our our team.

Jamie:

We went one and three, dude. We beat. We won our first game like five or six one, and then we played a really tough team. Like a team that's probably like the best double a team that any of us have seen. Yeah, right.

Jamie:

We actually went up one nothing on them. And then it got tied one one. And then, and then two one and then the wheels kind of fell off. Maybe we lost four one or three one four one something like that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Jamie:

So that was the second game.

Speaker 3:

Is it? Yeah.

Scott:

Go ahead. No. No. I was just saying, isn't that the worst one? It's like you're playing a team that, you know, is definitely better than you, but, like, you're doing enough to hang on and you get to, like, I don't know when it happened for you, but you get to, like, the third period.

Scott:

The other team gets a goal, and then it's just like

Jamie:

It wasn't the third period. It was one one going to the third.

Scott:

It's like there's this large exhale and everyone's like, oh, there went the game and the fucking wheels fall off. And it's like, come on, guys. You've been in it this whole game, like fucking dig in.

Jamie:

Yeah. And and you could see, you know, our kids were good through two periods.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Third period, our team kind of took the foot off the gas a little bit. So that was, oh, listen, it was a tough game and the other team was good. So the other team's goalie stood on his head. Like, I give him credit, you know? So then this the next morning, our kids just didn't show up.

Jamie:

Just Yeah.

Scott:

And did the other team show up or they just

Jamie:

No, they did. Yeah.

Scott:

You know, that's like also the early morning thing.

Speaker 3:

It

Scott:

could be a crapshoot, man.

Jamie:

One of our dads said, oh, it's morning. And I go, dude, it's morning for them too.

Scott:

No. That totally. Right. It's not like

Jamie:

the conditions are any different for them. Right?

Scott:

Exactly.

Jamie:

So I don't think our kids play well at that time of day. We just don't. And the other team we played was a good team. Yeah, it was a good team, you know?

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Scott:

So the better team won.

Jamie:

Yeah, I think so. And we lost to them like like like a month ago, Four, three, four, two. This game we lost like five one. Yeah. One, something like that.

Jamie:

Our kids just didn't show up and then and then the oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I take it back. We went two and two. My bad.

Jamie:

Sorry. We went one and one on each day because we beat a team from Maryland in on Sunday afternoon to to one. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, we didn't go one, one, two and two. Do you know what's really funny that I wanted to mention to you?

Jamie:

You know how we all obviously watch our kids and kind of like scrutinize our kids? Yeah. Okay.

Scott:

No. I mean, no, no. What are you talking about?

Jamie:

What? Weirdo. Seriously, I don't know what I was thinking about even

Scott:

mentioning Yeah. Aaron, are you?

Jamie:

Seriously. So I'm sitting in the lobby. I don't know, like midday Sunday after we kind of all checked out, we still had like two hours to kill. So we're all kind of hanging in the lobby. Right.

Jamie:

And our coach comes down and our coach happens to mention to me. So he, he mentions to me that the coach from Sunday morning's team. Okay. Actually said to Tyler after the game, he's like, wow, can you know, so we lost to them like five one, our team really didn't show much. And he, the other coach says to our coach, wow, that 22, can he teach all of our, my kids how to skate?

Scott:

No shit.

Jamie:

Right? Talking about Dominic. So Tyler says that to me and I look at him and I go,

Scott:

have they ever seen?

Jamie:

I go, really? He goes, yeah, I go. Well, clearly we're watching two different hockey games because I thought he was fucking awful. Right.

Scott:

But she is.

Jamie:

But it's funny. I guess the reason I'm bringing this up is because I think sometimes us as parents. We see certain things that our kids do and don't do. Right. But it's not always necessarily what somebody who knows the game of hockey is looking for.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Right. I would have, I would have never said that in a million years, like, oh wow, like Dominic really skated well that game.

Scott:

In fact, I've been saying like the total opposite for weeks at this point.

Jamie:

That's correct. So, and then, and then Tyler says to me, after I mentioned that, he says to me, and from the Saturday morning game, I thought that was the most complete game that Dominic played. And I thought Dominic was awful in that game too. So, again, I guess the reason I'm saying this is because coaches, I think hockey coaches who know the game, they look at different things than we as parents do. And the reason I'm saying this now is because so Alec Marsh, who you know, the Hobart assistant coach episode 34, 33, something like that.

Jamie:

Go back and listen if you haven't. So Alec Marsh is the the assistant coach of Hobart College, who's off to a great start, by the way, their teams are

Scott:

very good.

Jamie:

Yeah, they're doing very well. Same thing. Yeah, they are going for a four P, which is sick. So Alec's been doing video with Dominic. Right?

Jamie:

And he's been giving me feedback after he breaks down all Dominic shifts. And again, he does not think that Dominic is playing poorly either. So it's funny, like I'm saying, I think us as parents maybe aren't focusing on the right thing sometimes that I think maybe hockey coaches are focusing on other things that we are maybe are not focusing on. I guess my point is, is maybe we shouldn't be as hard on our children because maybe there's some things that our kids are doing right that we're just not seeing. Especially for myself because I don't know the game well enough.

Scott:

Yeah. Well, yep. That makes a lot of sense. I will say that I think that there are, I think it's what, what I'm taking away from this is that like it's important to talk to somebody who knows the game better than you do, you meaning you or me or whatever.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Scott:

And get their feedback, you know, and then I think it's also worthwhile if you're I have an opportunity to talk to someone like that and who's watched your kid and has an understanding, you know, to also say like, okay, what are, you know, what is he doing well? What is he not doing well? You know, and see if there's any alignment between what you're thinking and what they're saying, you know?

Jamie:

Yeah. I have not done that, you know?

Scott:

Well, you should because clearly I

Jamie:

probably should.

Scott:

It might save you a lot of emotional bandwidth.

Jamie:

Yeah, probably. But I thought that was I thought that was interesting that from like three coaches now, three different coaches are saying different things than I am seeing. I thought that was.

Scott:

That's great, dude. That's what that's that's awesome.

Jamie:

Listen, I suppose it is, you know, but it clearly tells me that us as hockey parents are, we're all fucking stupid.

Scott:

Well, I don't, I mean

Jamie:

Obviously I'm being facetious, but you get the point.

Scott:

No, I, yes, I think there are some that are, are better, better qualified to give, you know, constructive feedback, you know, and you know, for someone that's not self aware, you know, that could get dicey. But no, man, I think having a conversation, if you're concerned about your kid's play or things that you've been going over with him or whatever the might or her, talk to the coach and be like, am I on point with this? Like, are you seeing the same thing? And if he's like, nah, dude, like, that's not something I'd be worried about. Even if let's just say like there's a skill that like or something about the game aspect of your kid's game and, you know, the coach and you're right.

Scott:

Let's say your observations are right and the coach would agree. But like he might say, yeah, but listen, you don't need to worry about that right now. That's true. Doesn't need to be a priority right now.

Jamie:

And you're a 100% right about it.

Scott:

You know what I mean?

Jamie:

Yeah. I think that happens a lot. I think us as parents sometimes are focusing on the things that maybe other people are not focusing on. Right.

Scott:

Yeah. Well,

Jamie:

that maybe are not important at this moment in time.

Scott:

So here's something that I've been observing watching Otto and that's like at the face off circle, he has not done a great job of tying up his

Jamie:

guy. And

Scott:

there's been a few times where had he tied up his guy or had, so what what he'll do is like if if his center, like, doesn't lose the face off, meaning, you know, he kind of pops out and starts getting into like, you know, space to receive a pass. But if the puck doesn't go to their defenseman, he's not there's times when he's not in there battling and his his guy, his opposite winger, you know, just like kind of walks in and picks it up and goes. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that's every time. Yeah.

Scott:

But I think like I know

Jamie:

what that looks like.

Scott:

Yeah. So so I don't think I don't I mean, I'm not wrong to say, dude, like, you have to tie up your guy until your team clearly has possession and then like, you know, move your ass again to some soft ice or open space, whatever. But this weekend, you know, he started tying up his guy more and that was that was great. But the point is that, like, you know, that's something that maybe the coach would say is I would find it hard to believe the coach would say that's not important. I think it's pretty nuts and bolts type stuff.

Scott:

But, you know, maybe the coach sees it and just for whatever reason isn't giving Otto that feedback, you know, and, so whatever. I think that's just an example of where, I don't know what I'm saying. I guess what I'm saying is that like, I think there are some things that you can see that are pretty obvious, you know, but if you're unsure, talk to, talk to the coach.

Jamie:

No, you're not wrong.

Scott:

But here's my question though. Has that trickled down to Dominic at this point?

Jamie:

Like, does he know that those things

Scott:

Does he know that, that all three have said those things about his performance?

Jamie:

I mentioned the Blazers coach saying something to our coach. I told him that. I didn't tell him about Tyler mentioning that to me. And Marsh has told him that.

Scott:

Directly. So two out of three. Yeah. So tell him dude. I mean,

Jamie:

Oh yeah, no, I definitely will. I wasn't like not telling him on purpose. But I thought that was, I thought that was an interesting observation, you know, from, from like three totally different people.

Scott:

Well, that

Jamie:

makes me re it reassures me that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking it out.

Scott:

Well, listen, I I've talked to a lot about this stuff. I don't think you don't know what you're talking about. No, but I think you might maybe are over indexing on some things or

Jamie:

that's true.

Scott:

Yes. There's some things that might stroke some strike some stroke, some emotional cords that just, you know, stroke

Jamie:

the emotional cords. Stroke it?

Speaker 3:

You strike? Is that what

Scott:

you do? You stroke it?

Jamie:

No, I don't think so. I don't think you

Scott:

use No, stroke that

Jamie:

other things.

Scott:

You stroke other. Yeah. Got you.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Scott:

Yeah. So what do you, okay. Anyway, the point being- Not sure

Jamie:

how how to continue on from there.

Scott:

Where do we go from Yeah, Brian,

Jamie:

how do you, how do you get out of that?

Scott:

I don't, I'm not trying to get out of it.

Jamie:

Well, yeah. How you move on from that?

Scott:

Know? Maybe

Jamie:

Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, you just do it.

Scott:

No, you move on. But I'm saying you might save yourself some emotional troubles.

Jamie:

You might. I think this is true. Think you definitely might save some emotional troubles.

Scott:

Yeah. So just go stroke it. That's what you got to do.

Jamie:

Just like stroking clearly.

Scott:

Your bed's out of shape, just stroke it and you'll you'll be in a better way. Alright.

Jamie:

Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast, the x rated version.

Scott:

Yeah. Well, you know.

Jamie:

Anyhow. Anyhoo. So Otto this weekend?

Scott:

Yeah. Otto, they they won both games this weekend. That was great news. Unless I'm misremembering something because I feel like I'm fucking out of my mind right now. No.

Scott:

Won both games. Def, dude. The one game on Saturday, it was like they Uh-huh. They should this is a I don't know how many times they played them, but certainly this time and the last time, should have beaten them like, I don't know, seven, seven one, seven nothing. Yeah.

Scott:

It's like they they they won like six to five, but it was so aggravating to watch, you know, kids that have like a good handle on the game in terms of like possession and like control and like the scoreboard just to start taking fucking stupid penalty stick penalty after stupid stick penalty that's just like retaliation and, like, whatever. And it's like, come on, guys. You're doing are you trying to give the game away? You know? And and look, I've whatever.

Scott:

So

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott:

In any event, I was gonna yeah. I thought I was gonna strangle Otto because he had they it was five four, I think, at the time. He was on the four check. And he was, like, first on puck, but he had the hard pressure from behind. And he started putting on the brakes, like, behind the net and, you know, leaned back into the kid and, like Right.

Scott:

Reverse checked him, basically. Okay. And I was like, I I was like, great. They're gonna score on this fucking power play. You know?

Scott:

And it's like, come on, man. Like, you don't need to do that. You know? And he's like, well, the guy I felt the guy on me. Like, what what else was I supposed to do?

Scott:

Like, I don't know. Like, pick up the puck and start skating. Like, I don't know. Like, turn your back to him so he doesn't fucking get you in the numbers. Like, try try one of those.

Scott:

Anyway, they won. Then they won again last night. Sunday. Last night, Sunday night and I wasn't there. Orly was there.

Scott:

Right. But she's texting me like, dude, he's like, he's hustling. He's being aggressive. He's really battling for the puck. I was like, awesome.

Scott:

Exactly what I want to hear. I don't care about how many goals he scores or whatever. Of course, then he comes home and he's like, dude, I had this sick pass to Chris. It's like, I got knocked over. I was on my knees, but I stayed with the puck and I sauced it from my knees.

Scott:

Was like, okay, dude.

Jamie:

Isn't funny? Isn't it funny when they come home and talk like that?

Scott:

Yeah. I would look, I mean, for what it's worth, went and watched it. I was like, you know, good for you for staying with the play. You know what I mean? But, whatever.

Scott:

I don't want to like hate on that because you know, that's like showing effort and like stickuteness. Yes.

Jamie:

So I have a question for you. You were mentioning that orally. So when when Nancy watches Dominique's games, yeah, and she comes out and she's like, oh my God, he played so well. And I'm like, what the fuck were you watching?

Scott:

Well, listen.

Jamie:

So is it the same with Oralee? Because Nancy and I are like totally Totally

Scott:

in different planets.

Jamie:

Total opposites. Like, like, I'm like, we clearly, you and I are watching two

Scott:

totally different games. Right. Yeah. Our son is 22.

Jamie:

Yeah. When whenever yeah. Whenever Nancy says that, I look at him like, okay. I'm like, I'll watch it. And I'll

Scott:

Okay. But then the other coaches, Hobart assistant coach and his coach are all singing his praises. Maybe maybe we see what the problem is here. Maybe I

Speaker 3:

am the problem.

Jamie:

There's there's no question about it. That's why this podcast exists. Right?

Scott:

Well, we need, like, a we need, like, a a 12 step program, and then we need one for like like children recovering crazy I wonder if we

Jamie:

should start like like a like a crazy hockey dad's retreat in like, oh, I don't know. Let's just say, let's just pick Idaho because it's one of the two states that still haven't downloaded our podcast.

Scott:

Oh yeah, we could get a listener there.

Jamie:

So we started in like Idaho, right? So like, you know, just buy like, I don't know, a 100 acres in Idaho and have like a retreat. For crazy, crazy hockey parents that just want to like calm down and mellow out and not be so nuts. Right? I mean, I wonder if

Speaker 3:

when have we started that?

Scott:

Let's get that on the calendar. Let's let's start planning that one.

Jamie:

If you build it, they will come.

Scott:

Absolutely. It'll be like the next burning man or something. Anyhow, so yeah, that was hockeying for the weekend. I think overall it was good going into Thanksgiving break. We got a fucking game Sunday after Thanksgiving.

Jamie:

So do we. So oh, no. We have we have we have a game Saturday, and then we have a full ice full ice practice Sunday.

Scott:

Perfect. Speaking

Jamie:

of Sunday Sunday morning, though, you and I have something

Scott:

Yo. That's what's up.

Jamie:

Very cool on the horizon.

Scott:

Yeah. I got a great interview lined up. Thank you. Thank you, JT. Can I call you JT now?

Scott:

Mean, yeah. Sure. JT.

Jamie:

Sunday morning, buddy. I mean, oh my goodness gracious.

Scott:

Coming to my Wheaties.

Jamie:

We got a good one Sunday morning, boss. Stay tuned. We have a real good interview Sunday morning. Oh yeah. I'm looking forward to that.

Scott:

One hundo. Yes. Yes.

Jamie:

But before that, we have a really good interview right now.

Scott:

Oh yeah, I know. It's a 100%. So real quick before we do that, call out partners, Howie's hockey.

Jamie:

Crazy ten.

Scott:

Crazy ten. Holiday season is upon us.

Jamie:

It is.

Scott:

Go buy the things that you need from Howie's Hockey, merch, swag, wax, tape.

Speaker 3:

Here, laces. Right.

Scott:

Although I will say I laces from Howie's and What need to replace one

Jamie:

the fuck?

Scott:

I know. Bad luck. I'm gonna chalk it up to bad luck. One's already ripped.

Jamie:

Damn it, Howie. You can't do that to us.

Scott:

No. Listen. I it's a it I I think I just had bad luck. You know? It's like I I I go I go for the premium lace, and then I have the bad luck of getting whatever happened.

Jamie:

Anyway Do you do wax or no wax?

Scott:

No. I definitely no. No wax.

Jamie:

No, bro. You need wax.

Scott:

No. No. No. No. Wax laces are you talking about or wax on the stick?

Jamie:

Wax laces.

Scott:

No. No. No. Homey homey don't play that.

Jamie:

Wait. You don't do wax laces?

Scott:

No. Why? Because I don't need it.

Jamie:

Well, it's for Otto, not you, but you know, you don't do wax laces for Otto?

Scott:

No. Really? That's all I do

Jamie:

is wax laces for Dom.

Scott:

Well, listen, my guy also needs to figure out how to tie his own fucking skates.

Jamie:

Dom knows how to tie his own skates.

Scott:

Well, it also helps when they're waxed and it has a little more grip and bite.

Jamie:

That's why. Yes.

Scott:

I know.

Jamie:

I think it's actually maybe I'm wrong. We need to get somebody on here and tell us if we're idiots or not. But I would think that the wax laces would be easier for a youth kid to learn how to tie his

Scott:

I think for sure that would be true.

Jamie:

You know, especially like you said, if they don't have the strength to to pull the laces, you know, up, you know, I think the wax is probably helpful. Maybe you should get back to Howie's and or use our discount code and order some more laces in this time.

Speaker 3:

No, I

Scott:

need to.

Jamie:

Make sure they're waxed.

Scott:

Not for me. Same. For for Pacqueno. Yeah. Not for you.

Scott:

For Minnie Me.

Jamie:

Correct. Exactly. For Omen.

Scott:

Okay. Howie's hockey, Crazy Ten, use it. First Ride, Elite Skating, Angelo Searce.

Jamie:

CHD Ten, New Jersey Devils trust him.

Scott:

So should you.

Jamie:

So should you.

Speaker 3:

That's good.

Jamie:

He's got his clinics coming up. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure he's got clinics the next two or three days if I'm not mistaken.

Scott:

Are you going?

Jamie:

No.

Scott:

No. I was going to talk to you about maybe figuring out going to one together.

Jamie:

I was debating. I was actually, listen, I mean, we should call it. I think they're sold out.

Scott:

That's probably true.

Jamie:

If I'm not mistaken. But because we are who we are, I would think Angelo would slide us in.

Scott:

He'd make room for two, like, whatever hockey dads.

Jamie:

I mean, listen. You know, we do promotions.

Scott:

You know a guy.

Jamie:

We do I know a guy.

Scott:

Do You know a guy. Alright. I know

Jamie:

a guy. He's our partner, so I can't imagine why he wouldn't make an exception.

Scott:

Fair. Fair. Fair. Fair.

Jamie:

Those are the perks of the job.

Scott:

Well, a TBD, I haven't it hasn't we haven't tested those waters yet.

Jamie:

True. True.

Scott:

But nonetheless

Jamie:

I'll text Sirs and see

Scott:

on that. More because he's your neighbor than we have a podcast, if I had to guess.

Jamie:

During COVID, we took down many of, alcoholic beverages on my porch.

Scott:

That's what's up. Okay. And then we got athletic performance insight. We got all of your tagging video analytics needs at API, athleticperformanceinsight.com. Reach out to Eric.

Scott:

Use the contact form. Request a demo. Really take him up on it. It's an amazing software to for game tagging, analytics, all the under the hood type stuff, really helps coaching staff, parents go over video. Can't recommend it enough.

Scott:

Using it with Otto's team and, yeah. So please check them out. Athleticperformanceinsight.com.

Jamie:

A $100 value. Mention Crazy Hockey Dads.

Scott:

Yeah. Get a 10% off your season subscription.

Jamie:

Yep.

Scott:

All right. So that rounds out the partners. Yeah. 100 So dude, massive interview coming up right now.

Jamie:

It's a good one. Real good one. The first of its kind for us, with all of the interviews we've been doing, something a little different. The NHL's first mental performance coach.

Scott:

Yeah. We got Vinny Malts on the show today. He's the founder of Bloodline Hockey, a leading mindset and performance coaching company. They they I mean, like, they help hockey players strengthen their mental game, leadership, and identity off the ice. Like, that's what Bloodline Hockey does.

Scott:

Something that, like, probably is not done enough, especially at the younger ages. I was just listening to Chiclets and they had a guy on there who's who's working with kids like 10 U on the mental side of the game. But Vinny is like no slouch when it comes to like his own career. He's a he played pro in the AHL and ECHL, played over in Europe. So, mean, he himself has experienced like the firsthand challenges that like every, you know, all of his clients face, especially, I mean, the current NHLers that he's working with.

Scott:

And then, yeah, after retiring, he started Bloodline and he continues to work with players and teams and organizations across North America. You know, I remember youth, junior college, professional programs, build emotional intelligence, communication skills. Yeah, man. He's just like he's such a wealth of information. And like, you know, you talk to someone like him, it's like just that you have so many light bulb moments because he connects dots that like on the surface, you're just like, Oh, I yeah, no, that totally makes sense.

Scott:

Like kind of the why behind some of this stuff. No, he's good.

Jamie:

He was really good.

Scott:

Yeah. No. Unreal interview, unreal person.

Jamie:

Yes. Yeah, really. And I think we actually touched on it during the podcast. I think I actually mentioned to him, you know, we spend so much money as parents on stuff in this game, whether it's gear, power skates, stick handling classes, shooting classes, all this ice time, something or all these clinics. And yet I think us as parents, I don't think any of us focus on the mental aspect of our kids.

Jamie:

Right. We're doing all the physical stuff, but you know, the mental aspect of this game is huge, especially today.

Scott:

Yeah. When you've got crazy hockey fucking parents beating their kids over the head with like all of the things they need to do better and different. I mean, like, dude, it's

Jamie:

Couldn't have said it better myself, dude.

Speaker 3:

You're a 100%

Scott:

Yeah. There should be a chapter in like his, like, you know, like, his course on how to deal with crazy hockey dads parents.

Jamie:

Yeah. No, he he's an impressive dude, man. He's, he's a, you know, he was coaching. He's he coached the high levels. I want to say coach 16 you 18 you 14 you he's a he's a really cool dude.

Jamie:

I think you guys are really gonna enjoy the interview again. If NHL players trust him,

Scott:

maybe you guys should too. He might know a thing or two.

Jamie:

Yes. And, you know, he's in the end. You can find him at find him at bloodlinehockey.com.

Scott:

And I think if yeah, I think he also said where he at on Instagram. Reach out to him on Instagram also. And we'll, we'll post, we'll, we'll, we'll post his Instagram handle.

Jamie:

Funny. I actually have it right here. Coach Vinny Malts, M a l t as in Tom s as in Sam.

Scott:

All right. Reach out to him on Instagram.

Jamie:

Yeah. Coach Vinny Malts. Yeah. Good dude. I hope you guys enjoy the interview.

Jamie:

It was, it was a good one.

Scott:

Yep. Ready to kick it over?

Jamie:

Here we go. Vinny Malts. I hope you guys enjoy.

Scott:

Alright, everyone. Welcome back to our next episode of the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast and today we're interviewing Vinny Malts of Bloodline Hockey, mindset and performance coaching company dedicated to helping hockey players develop mental strength, self awareness, leadership skills to thrive on and off the ice and correct me if I'm wrong, but the first mental performance goes hired by the NHL?

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Scott:

First Yeah. That's no small feat.

Speaker 3:

That's awesome. Congrats, man. Yeah.

Jamie:

That's awesome.

Scott:

Amazing. And you also had a great career yourself as a player. You played up into pros, you played overseas. So if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit about like your journey in the game of hockey and kind of what Bloodline's all about, would be amazing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I was born and raised in Philadelphia and one of my dad's my dad at the time when I was a kid, I was like six years old, whatever is, had a body shop and in Southwest Philly. And basically one of the guys working there goes, this kid's energy. He's got to play hockey.

Scott:

Oh, no way.

Speaker 3:

It was literally so some a guy at a body shop actually has got what got me into hockey. That's funny. He just knew it. He was just like, kid's got to play. And so, yeah, that's where it began as like, you know, grew up in Philadelphia playing like, you know, Old York Road, all that stuff started there and then into the journey of Little Flyers, Junior Flyers, you know, playing the back then what was AA is now AAA all.

Scott:

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3:

Grew up doing that. And then, yeah, I left home for juniors and ended up with the whole Olympics and got drafted by Vancouver Canucks. I had an unbelievable experience there. I got to play for Cole Julian. Charlie Hunter was a GM, was amazing.

Speaker 3:

Yuri Fisher, Mike Rider, like some unbelievable players that I got to experience with. And then, yeah, I ended up going into, you know, played for about nine years minors. All that had the usual story of after I got drafted, had a bad ankle injury. So we went through that but it's what led to me from a coaching standpoint after my playing career got into coaching fell in love with the player development aspect of it not realizing where it kind of things were headed. Was always the I like to look at it as originally the way I was kind of doing things.

Speaker 3:

I was doing things in the gym, working with players, when I first started our first company called Evolving Athletes, which is still our parent company. But when I first started out, it was all right. We're doing strengthening and on a skill set. And then here's why you're doing these things, right? Here's why you're doing this in the gym and how we're going to do this skill on the ice because it's going to develop what you do then when you play.

Speaker 3:

So I was already integrating a lot of different things that were mindset or mental performance related in the way, you know, I perceive it. So went through that journey, started our company, started coaching, did some really cool things. Coaching wise was up in Wilkes Barre. We ended up building a program there won a national championship at the time at the u14 level, which was pretty cool. Like we went through that.

Speaker 3:

Had Ivan Proveroff spin off. Was I was crazy Daniel Sprung like we were just an insane.

Jamie:

Wow. Very cool.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. The team with bananas, whatever we wanted, all that stuff. Then, you know, fun fact. The reason that USA hockey changed their import rule was because of our team because we had like on '19, we were 11 or 12 imports and we won nationals in St. Louis and people went bananas.

Speaker 3:

Wow. People are like, what are

Scott:

you doing?

Speaker 3:

Like, it was like, we said,

Jamie:

like, six get after you. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. We had like five, six Canadian. You know, we had one Dutch, six Russians. Like it was like the team was just like insane. They were like, yeah, USA.

Speaker 3:

Was like, no, we're not doing this anymore. Wow. That's so fun. Yeah, it was fun to go through that experience. And then yeah, yeah, just basically, you know, fell in love with the mindset piece, did my own work about fifteen years ago is where my journey started.

Speaker 3:

I basically as I got into the coaching realm, I started to kind of have three or four seasons where when the playoffs would hit I get really depressed like it was like I'm coaching I'm doing what I love but there was this thing that suddenly was hitting me for a few years where it was like what is going on? Like I gotta I gotta get my life together here. If I can't every time the playoffs hit in April, May, I can't fall into this deep depression. And every single year is crazy. And that's kind of how I got into mindset performance was I did my own work for got into this mindset.

Speaker 3:

Performance Institute program was doing that for about a year and a half, Did the work for myself. And then when I came out on the other end, I was like, actually, players need this. And that's kind of how it all kind of came into pull together everything that I had done at the time. And then I went all in on my self with bloodline hockey and realized that's a you know what? I feel like there's a need for this in the industry.

Speaker 3:

And I got fortunate where we had done a summer program where I had 12 players came on board for a group. And when that was over, 10 of them came to me at the end of the summer. We're like, hey, would you work with us individually? That's a whole lot.

Scott:

How bloodline

Speaker 3:

was born. Was like, yep, let's go. And then ten years, let's say everyone that started about ten years ago. Now that journey has led into some pretty cool adventures so far. So hell, that's to where we are now.

Scott:

That's wild. And so just just because you mentioned it in terms of your own personal journey with it and the depression that would come along with, the postseason, like, when you peeled away that onion, well, like, what what did you kind of, like, discover about yourself and and and cause I'm sure there's probably other people that might have like similar, you know,

Speaker 3:

a 100%. Was a lot of the, you know, you, you start looking back, there's the regret part of like, oh man, if only I did this, if only I did that. Right. And what I didn't recognize was, yeah, like example, right? My parents my dad and my mom were 17 and 16 when they had me.

Speaker 3:

My dad was 17. So I grew up in a household first generation, right? Ukrainian American Jewish like coming to this country. They have no idea. I'm being raised by my old school grandparents who are just insane.

Speaker 3:

Like it's just constantly yelling and bananas in the house. Like my grandma, like grandfather yelling around like getting the bell.

Jamie:

I remember those days. So

Speaker 3:

you get older and you get raised in the culture and then you went through everything naturally. Right? Cause like the way I grew up in Philly was, you know, I was outside and I played roller hockey, hockey for as long as I could remember. Right? I wasn't getting developed like all the lessons today, right?

Speaker 3:

My lessons were, you know, if you if anyone who knows in Philly like the two cars, you know, you're on a street where two cars aligned. I could have literally I took the kids back about four years ago. It was crazy to like go back and I'd have been back on our old street in Philly in years probably like two decades at the time and I got out and I was like, oh my god, I could almost touch the cars when my wingspan when I put my wingspan out and I didn't realize what happened was wow. Like when I look back, I was like from nine to basically 14. I was playing hockey in a box one on one against Mike and Dave Bonner like Mike would play in the net.

Speaker 3:

They were each five and six years older than me. So Mike would go in the net. Play against Dave for hours and we were playing in a box. So like the skill of like just playing in tight

Jamie:

small area game stuff. Yeah, right

Speaker 3:

over and over. My hands became unreal because I literally just had

Jamie:

to yeah,

Speaker 3:

and right exactly and played against this guy. I didn't realize like looking back and then when we moved over my parents moved over Jersey later of like when I was 16 and then what I started doing there was playing against in the street two or three against ten fifteen kids. So it was like a different kind of way of developing. So like for the listeners of like those were two key moments where if you could do that if you could replicate playing a small area against somebody much older than you who's passionate about wanting to play all the time or you know, you get really good and then you just start to take you like I tell our older player this players this a lot in the offseason. Go grab a couple of young kids and just you and another kid and try to make them better and play against like eight or nine of them and just literally the whole time.

Speaker 3:

Just, they're going to be under your feet all that stuff. But literally you want to develop stick counting and decision making and trying to find through all that traffic. What lessons do you need? You do that. Watch where your game lands.

Jamie:

And it's and in an unstructured environment,

Scott:

right? We

Jamie:

talked about being seen me about structure and how it's not so good to have so much structure. You learn just by hanging out, just loving doing it outside. And that's I think we're missing that these days

Speaker 3:

big time. So so bringing that together. That's where you know, going through all that. That's where a lot of the depression led of where I came up very raw and blessed and was like one of those things of like I naturally the conditions were built around me to succeed which was wild but I had no idea how I did it and that I had no idea what actually happened. Right?

Speaker 3:

So the know how why and all that stuff, right? Like any kind of professional sustainable environment. You have to know how the how to God here's how to build your business. Well, there's tons of books that tell you how to build someone else's but to build your life, there's nothing that really exists like that. And so that's where I realized was oh looking back on it.

Speaker 3:

Wait, I didn't have the skill set. I didn't have the mentorship. I didn't have people helping me to understand what I'm walking into. And so once I got injured, it was really hard, right? I went from this talent.

Speaker 3:

I was like, wow, I felt amazing to them when the injury happened. Was trying to get back to something that I wasn't anymore, right? It's the no man steps in the same river twice stuff. So I wasn't that same person anymore, but because I didn't know how I got there, the struggle was real. Like what if I do this?

Speaker 3:

What if I did that? So the irony is on the one side it made me awesome at coaching and developing and teaching, but on the other end, you can't go back. It's over.

Scott:

Interesting. So there was almost like a lack of a blueprint. Is that almost are you is that what you're saying in Yeah, so many

Speaker 3:

big time. Right? Because like there was no real mentorship to understand. Like even example guys, right? When I got injured, my agent was telling me at the time.

Speaker 3:

Go talk to the coaching staff. Go tell them like, hey, you know, the ankles not feeling good, blah. And it's like, here I am. Okay. I got to go talk to Chloe Julia and tell him before a game play today.

Speaker 3:

I'm shitting my pants.

Scott:

Yeah, I'm only

Jamie:

there. Like I'm

Speaker 3:

only there one year that I've gone to major junior. I get drafted. All this stuff happens and I'm like, you know, like, and now I'm like a hurt fawn, right? Like I'm like sitting there. I'm like, not feeling great about myself, lost my confidence because I'm injured.

Speaker 3:

And you want me to go in there and have confidence and go talk about, hey, no, I'm not playing today because I'm injured. Like it was like all these things of like, why weren't you going and talking to them and telling them what's going on as my representation instead of putting me in that situation where I didn't know what to say. Like that uncomfortable as a young man.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

That's so interesting. And go ahead, James.

Jamie:

No, I was just going to say, so it's funny you mentioned confidence, you know? So my my child struggles with that. He's up and down like like a yo yo. It's wild.

Scott:

Yeah,

Jamie:

it doesn't really help that he has ADHD. So that's kind of something else that he has to deal with. But you know, but but like you said earlier, when you were a kid, you know, he runs around like a lunatic. So hockey was perfect for him. Right.

Jamie:

You know, so it's like the perfect game for him because you don't stand still for very long, you know, but by confidence, you happen to mention it. So I'll bring it up. You know what I've seen over because so Scott and I, we both had our kids play AAA and then we both brought them down to AA. Okay, you know, for different reasons, you know, but my child was struggling with confidence. He had a really rough year with a very high level team, AAA high level.

Jamie:

And I was like, we need a change. Right. And Vince, I saw I saw things that happened to at the time, an 11 year old that I didn't even think were possible. I'm talking like. Skating style changes, even like body tics, And I'm sure it has to live with anxiety, too.

Jamie:

But his confidence went into the tubes. I mean, I'm talking to a kid who used to be a beautiful skater. Almost couldn't turn to the right anymore.

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Jamie:

You know, Vinny, it's crazy. You know, I'm sure you have a lot of experience with that stuff. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I know you nailed it. One of the it's funny. Ironically, not this past summer, I had a really interesting experience with nervous system work, right? And that's out in Arizona going to see Doctor. Sean Drake.

Speaker 3:

Absolute beauty of a human being, right? It's like me and him are kind of like the point break.

Jamie:

Great movie. Great movie. Crazy.

Speaker 3:

And I'm Giannis. Like it's like a spiritual life. He's just a total gem. But what it taught me was the first time about from a nervous system standpoint of how much we're not realizing the impact it has of when you're screaming, yelling at a kid. So to your point, this was a big thing.

Speaker 3:

It's funny. The one thing I remember as a kid, you know, it is what it is. Old days, right? Old school, you're getting beat and you suck and all that stuff, right?

Jamie:

So yeah,

Speaker 3:

but I always remember my mom would say right in Russian, she would always say near the near the like whenever like my dad would have something would happen it and was like, you know, like this, whatever it is. And, you know, you get hit and then my mom screaming and it's like she would always say near me. So near me means nerves, nerves. So it was like impacting me psychologically as a kid. Always remember that.

Speaker 3:

But then as you got older, the analogy I always gave to people was there's a major issue that we understand about the nervous system is why are we yelling at kids when they're ten eleven twelve younger, whatever it is when they turn 13 as an example, at thirteen fourteen. When you go to high school, we know the science and the research of you naturally start to compare yourself to your peers and you naturally go into that mode of, uh-oh, and you have all this nervousness now. How do I look in front of my peers? Oh, am I getting approval? Do I have respect and all this stuff?

Speaker 3:

And so all these ideas that I'm going to yell at you as an adult when you're 10 years old, because I'm going to make you better. What you're doing is you're actually messing with the nervous system. And so what happens is because you're now creating that emotional quote unquote trauma or that imprint on the child as an adult, you're making them think like their self worth, like they're, they're a scumbag, whatever you're doing by doing that, you're, you're literally shaking their nervous system to go, oh, now I'm, you know, fight or flight stuff. Now I'm frozen. Now my skating changes, my body changes because the fluidity of my physiological nature has literally changed because of you scaring the crap out of me by making me think something's wrong with me.

Speaker 3:

As opposed to wait, unemployed, let them do their thing, stay loose, stay loose. And then when they get older, they're naturally going to start to think that stuff. But when you're younger, how much you actually develop, right? Your body naturally needs to feel as why we talk about play for that feeling as like our Nike just do it. It's like there's a feeling first and this is backed up by neuroscience to write sensation first boom, then perspective gets built.

Speaker 3:

Then there's a narrative. Oh, stove is hot. Oh, that was hot. Oh, that was. Oh, that was hot.

Speaker 3:

Don't do that again. Right? And that's how everything gets built. So you get yelled at you're in an environment that is boom. Okay now perspective.

Speaker 3:

Wait. Okay. There's something wrong with me. What can I do differently to and you go into your head instead of go play kid go play? Yeah, let's create conditions and do that.

Speaker 3:

So nervous system is a is a big one that I see of where what you're describing right away. First thing I'm thinking of that's it is nervous system got impacted. Doubt.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah, that sounds right because I would get on it. Got to tell you and I had to change that which is one of the reasons we started this podcast. Yeah, because, you know, it was it was the wrong way to be. And I've had to totally do a one eighty with how I deal with my kid.

Jamie:

Yeah. And it seems to be fixing itself slowly. But I got to tell you, you know, I think a lot of parents out there kind of tear into their kid, especially in the car ride on the way home. And I think it does more damage, which you just described perfectly for everybody.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. 100%.

Scott:

Let me ask kind of kind of like to like piggyback off of that one. You know, certainly at the younger ages, you see kids for whatever reason have early success. Maybe they just figured out how to lift the puck before, you know, all their peers, they're bigger, they skate faster, like some things they just figure out first doesn't mean that the rest of them aren't going to figure it out, it's just a matter of when, right? But there's like this, the comparison of early success, you know, and I feel like at least as a parent, some of my like kind of crazy with it was rooted in seeing early success of other kids and then wanting my kid to reach similar levels And then it's like, well, how come you're not there yet? I need to like push harder.

Scott:

You know, you need to whatever it is. But in terms of like, you know, and maybe it's worthwhile to talk about parents as well, but like from a kid's perspective, let's put their parents aside or the coach aside, that's like, you know, giving it to them or, but just from their own observations of their environment and their peers and seeing like, I'm not, because I think in there part of that happened with my son last season was he he joined a new triple a team and he was a forward. And at some point, I think he decided that he was not as skilled as the other players on the team and due to circumstance, they were rotating one of their forwards back to play defense, like, every whenever. And he volunteers like, I'm gonna play defense. I feel like he kinda ran away a little bit because he's this comparison thing.

Scott:

Yep. So, if you could maybe like speak to that part a little bit and how, you know, as parents, we can help our kids with that and maybe what kids are going through with respect to the comparison piece.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. So, the first part of it, right? It's like that's one of the things we always try to do is separate. That's such a like Western culture thing of like, let's the parts, the parts as opposed to like knowing like the sociocultural aspect that we just described the FOMO from parents. This is what the driver is of what's going on that when we grew up, we didn't have as much of the news all around us media of the comparison.

Speaker 3:

Oh, look at this kid at this age doing it. Oh, did you hear about Johnny got committed all this stuff, right? The rankings that was a big thing that started to now wait, we got to win by six. We're going start yelling at the kids even though we're winning us. Right?

Speaker 3:

So the all the variables that kicked in is really what created a lot of it, with the players and the players on top of it also. So to your point is a really good book called 10 to 25. And what it does is it it shows it makes the argument and explains how from 10 to 25 most young players, what they really need are young athletes or students and all that. Really, what they're searching for is their biggest thing is respect and status. That's that's what's on their mind all the time, right?

Speaker 3:

It's like they want the respect level. They want to know and they want the status. It's like they want to know that I can contribute to society. That's why a lot of it is I want to make my parents happy. I want to make my coach happy naturally.

Speaker 3:

Like so they're not they're just doing this. The peers, right? When they hit the teenage years, that gets even more of now you're adding the peer while peer to peer of like, well, how is everyone else kind of looking at me? Right? I want the respect.

Speaker 3:

I want the status. So there's this combination of things that are going on that from their perspective, their behavior is being led by the social structure. Right? So whatever they're observing, whatever they're taking in now, they want to adapt and go, I want to make others happy. Right?

Speaker 3:

So it's it's our way of surviving, right? Like so as social beings, this is how we all survive as a species, right? Like what was the worst thing that could have happened to you? Hundreds of thousands of years ago. It's boom.

Speaker 3:

You're out. You're out like you're on your own. So once you're out of the group and you're out on your own, that was death. That was basically incidentally. You couldn't survive on your own.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. But so that's how we evolved. Right? It was like, oh, wait, how do I belong to the group? And so we were able to adjust our behavior based on group Dynamics and so that now when you see the younger players coming up now it's getting boom exacerbated like wait, there's all these rankings.

Speaker 3:

There's all these comparisons. There's oh, you know, he reminds me, you know, he looks like Trevor Zegas a little bit like the way he plays. It's nine years old and you're already comparing it to an unbelievable and I trail play like what are we doing? So it's baked into the system of how we do all this stuff of comparison all the time, right? Like even coaching.

Speaker 3:

What are we doing? Well, at this team and this is how they play and look how they did. And there's we're always comparing naturally, Not intentionally, but just natural of we're looking all where are we in the rankings? And so there's this constant looking outward that what happens to the young mind then as well, that must be if everyone else is looking outward. Well, I'm not going to go ahead against that.

Speaker 3:

That must be the way the world works. So I'm going have to compare myself to others all the time because all the adults in the room that I'm around that are modeling, right? The mirror neurons or if you want to get nerdy, but they're like the model of behavior and what I'm watching. Okay, well, it's all about comparison, then I guess I should be comparing myself to others. So it's a learned behavior that's happening for everyone else.

Speaker 3:

Again, it's natural. It's not intentional, but that's the part that we are not nurturing and getting ahead of and saying this is creating a real issue socially for our kids because of this comparison aspect. This isn't good on how it's going into their heads, right? Because it's a lot of people think, oh, it's good. It's competition.

Speaker 3:

It's good for us. Let's compete. And it's like, nah, when they're younger, they're already going to compete in some natural ways. But developmentally, we're not teaching how to actually observe and realize, wait, competing against yourself is the most important competition.

Scott:

There is totally

Speaker 3:

not competing against others, but the system doesn't teach you that the system teaches you we're competing against somebody else. You've got to be better than that person. Got to be better you all you need that to who do we need to call to help you get that to and also as opposed to woah, we, you know, we like to talk about it. We like to talk about connection and all these things that are important. Right.

Speaker 3:

Our team's a family. But how much do we actually teach it? The the two very different things.

Scott:

Yeah. So so one so sorry, James. But just, like, you know, but on that teaching part, and that was, like, kinda like my follow-up to that, is that, like, with all this pressure that we're talking about that's on these young kids from their environment, from their parents, from their coaches, like, how how can we as, you know, Exactly. Gonna ask you. Yeah.

Scott:

How how can we teach them to handle this pressure? Big time. Because because clearly, one part of it is as like as an, let's say an informed adult, we can learn ways to remove some of it, but let's there's gonna be plenty that can't do that. But how do we teach our kids to handle this pressure without losing the joy? Because so many conversations are about fostering the joy and the passion for whatever it is.

Scott:

We're talking about hockey, so be it hockey. But what are what are some tools that we can use to help teach them how to handle this?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. Well, first and foremost is modeling of behavior. Right? So like values are caught, not taught kind of thing. I like Randy Maskell told me that, you know, years ago from mentorship and what it is is that what people don't realize like what you're modeling is going to be the biggest teacher there is.

Speaker 3:

So with that, how am I modeling what I want to see of handling the pressure? So if as a parent, I don't handle pressure really well. I don't care what you say to the kid. They're not going

Jamie:

to handle pressure well

Speaker 3:

because they're going to learn right attachment. Who's their greatest attachment to their parents? Absolutely. It's like my family is like, I love you the most. So emotionally, what gets ingrained in you is I'm going to watch you guys and trust you the most in my early years.

Speaker 3:

And depending on how you behave and what you do, that's how I'm going to behave and what I'm going

Jamie:

to do all that and

Speaker 3:

model that. So that's first and foremost is as a parent, as a leader, are you doing the work to work on your response? Right? Like another that's another aspect of we're all very good at working on what I'm going to go do the action. I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to will myself to get stronger and I'm going to read all the books and I'm gonna But what we don't recognize the other side of that.

Speaker 3:

What's my response? And when my kid doesn't behave that certain way that I believe they should behave, what's my response look like? Do I have the emotional control in me not to get upset as a coach or as a parent to not sit there and go nuts on you right away and turn around and go, I'm so mad at you because you didn't do what I wanted you to do. And I forget you're nine, 10, 11 years old. Like, why would they do what you're doing as an adult who, you know how to think you have wisdom, you have experience.

Speaker 3:

You forget what it was like to be a kid of you went through the same thing. So that response training that I can go to the gym and get strong, but what I'm not training is weight. I also have to be strong on the other side is I'm having a natural unconscious response to my child that I said something to you, you didn't do it. And now I'm gonna get really mad as opposed to, woah, woah, I gotta strengthen that up. I got to strengthen the ability of my response and go, take a breath, relax and go.

Speaker 3:

So some of the favorite tools that I like to work on, number one, it's building awareness to it. Yeah. Right? So you've got to identify a good exercise to do first initially is reflect on it and think about, all right, identify what actually triggers me in those situations. So is it in the car ride home of when I'm telling my kid and not listening to me?

Speaker 3:

Is it during the game I said for them to do something and I see they're not working as hard, they're not moving their feet, and that really upsets me, right? Is it, you know, I told them to go talk to coach about something and they didn't do it. You you got to find and identify your trigger, not your kid, not what you think about your kid, but what do you know in your own? Hey, I know that really gets to me that get that gets an emotional response for me. Then once you're clear on identifying that now you direct it.

Speaker 3:

Now you start to think about, all right, well, what choices do I have? Like, all right. So if my kid isn't following what I'm what I've asked them to do and they don't do it, what am I going to do in response to that? How am I going to handle that situation? Am I going to stop and take a breath and go, okay, let me pause.

Speaker 3:

Let me pause for a second, breathe and let it out. And then just create that little reflection where just by simply pausing, I'm recognizing I'm about to go to that place now. Okay, how do I want to respond? So in directing it, you're thinking about, all right, naturally instinctively, I'm going to have the reaction. What am I going to do to control that reaction?

Speaker 3:

And then now what's that going to play out like? How am I going to talk to them? So what's the tone of my voice? What words do I want to use? And a lot of times what parents don't realize, one of the best ways is what's called motivational interviewing is guide the conversation, say, you know, it's interesting today.

Speaker 3:

Like, so how do you how do you feel you played? How do you feel in that situation? You know, what could you have done better potentially? So what you're doing is you're asking them the questions. So if you can stop, ask the question and let them explain to you what they saw.

Speaker 3:

Now you're allowing them to participate and do what they do, right? So it's like, let them be the ones to figure it out. So it's being able to control that response with a breath as one kind of tool using the reflection of identified direct. And then the owning it is giving yourself wins. I did it.

Speaker 3:

No. Hey, oh, you know what? I was in the car. I wanted to freak out. Hey, I own it now.

Speaker 3:

Like, Hey, I did it in that moment. I didn't freak out the way I usually do. Boom. That's a point. Good job.

Speaker 3:

Like that's cool. Cause it's, you've got to recognize the improvement and the growth that you're making.

Scott:

Totally.

Speaker 3:

So the framework is identify direct and own with all I am, what I do. So it's identify the trigger, direct it. How do you really want it to play out and then own it? I did it. Cool.

Speaker 3:

I actually did it or I learned from what I had just done. Now, boom, come back and reflect again and let me go through that process again over and over again.

Scott:

Makes a lot of sense.

Jamie:

You know, it's so funny you just went over that because I think that's a a really big problem in the game today. I think a lot of parents, mostly dads, but I've seen it with moms, too. They don't model the correct behavior and they frankly, what you just said is they need to work on themselves.

Speaker 3:

That's

Jamie:

it. Right. I mean, you know, it took me years to figure that out and I figured it out by it's funny. I wish I'd spoke to you years ago, but, you know, how I figured it out was I was realizing that I was not helping my child.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Jamie:

Right. Right. You know, so now

Speaker 3:

I'm trying to do. Yeah, it's normal. Right. Unfortunately, but that's the point. It's like like example, right?

Speaker 3:

What people don't realize they there's a big misconception of when you know, a pro environment college environment, the highest environments We talk about this all the time of like, hey, you're going to have the reaction. You're going to go nuts. Sometimes you're going to get angry. It's okay. And what I point out is one example of like how I deal with my kids, Where a lot of work going on and even me, As a trained professional itself, I'll snap on the kids also.

Speaker 3:

Like, I'll do that as well. Like when they're particularly when they're upsetting mom, that's what really gets to me is like, with

Jamie:

you with that 100%.

Speaker 3:

Non negotiable.

Jamie:

So when

Speaker 3:

that happens, I snap. Yeah. Then what happens is when I snap so let's say I hey, how many times I tell you within five to ten seconds and you cannot like the if the kids were here, they would tell you point blank like within five yourself. I'll stop. Oh, hey guys, that's not how you behave and how you want to react.

Speaker 3:

Do you understand why I just reacted the way I did? You guys know how I roll, how I want it to go. I don't want to get that upset, but guys, come on the way you're behaving right now. Tell me, is that the right way to behave? So literally they'll see the transition happen in real time within seconds, but I've trained myself right of knowing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Identify. I don't want that. I don't want them seeing that energy. I grew up with that energy.

Speaker 3:

It didn't help. I don't want their nervous system. I know all that. I don't want them to feel that, but I want them to see it's normal to have a reaction, but your response, that's the game. How good we cause everyone reacts, everyone reacts.

Speaker 3:

Everyone's gonna have a instinctive reaction. Yeah. The response boom, right? Like I love how George Mumford talks about this all time, right? Of like, okay, the response is really what it is.

Speaker 3:

How quickly do we go from two, three, four days? I'm pissed to ten seconds. Can you do that? Like that's the game is as you're developing is can you keep shortening and shortening and shortening that response time? That's what you're developing more than anything.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Scott:

That makes sense.

Jamie:

So it's funny, you know, you brought up your parents. So what were your parents like? You brought up a little bit in that last conversation, but what were your parents like when you were a kid coming up and you didn't do something that that they wanted you to do? What was

Speaker 3:

that like? Nuts getting punished, you know, beat right all the usual stuff. Yeah, you get the bell in the corner, right? You got to stand in the corner. I would tell the kids literally like, man.

Jamie:

Go where

Speaker 3:

to hide. Yeah. That's like, he would make me stand in the corner like this. My nose, like, I'm a bummer. I don't think Wow.

Speaker 3:

I think those five years I remember him ever coming out of the corner. So it was it was that in a old school way. Right? But also also a lot of passion and love, right? Like like it's like the misconception building.

Speaker 3:

It's always like, oh my god. It's always so bad. No, like when it was bad. Yeah, it would be bad. It was intense.

Speaker 3:

But when it was good, it was it was awesome. Like super loving like I think about like you think about the tournaments and how much they, you know, and invested into you're gonna do hockey and you're gonna play and we're gonna take you to all these tournaments and take care of you it was like sitting in the back on six seven eight hour. You know, six seven there it is. Natural. Yes.

Speaker 3:

Very So and it was like it was going through the stuff, but now I can reflect and go, wow, they did way more good than bad. But you remember the bad stuff in that way, but they did a lot of good in the way where, you know, it was cool to be like when I just think about it was, you know, I was blessed in the way where they weren't telling me everything that he was telling me everything to do when we would go to the games, right? When we would go to the games, it was nonstop. Suck. You didn't do this.

Speaker 3:

Need to do this. That and that we would fight with that. Because people would always ask, how did you last if it was so insane? I'm like, well, it's funny. Ironically, it was we would practice twice a week and then we play games on the weekend, which would be, know, a couple days whatever it was.

Speaker 3:

But during the week, the majority eight nine hours of play multiple days a week, three four days a week. What was I doing street? I can all that. I wasn't around right now.

Jamie:

Right.

Speaker 3:

Right. I'm the most the majority of my experience of what was happening was filtered with what playing in the street over having fun creating being in a box set up. So I played so much. I think now when I look back that's what offsetting kept the love going is because I was playing so much and then I had this other side that was like this other duality to it, was like misery because I always sucked. Literally I told you all time is like, yeah, 90% of the games I sucked like old school Ukrainian dad.

Speaker 3:

It was like, yeah, like I always sucked. Was never good enough, which yeah, did its own quote unquote damage, but it wasn't enough to override. Yeah. But I had so much of freedom of exploring on my own. Even though it was kind of intense when we were together at times and all that stuff, right in the game situations was that's what really triggered him.

Speaker 3:

But the rest of the time I was like, was doing my thing and you know, like practices rarely what he say anything during the week. He wasn't saying much. Yeah, but then when I was out in the street, he wasn't there. I don't like I when I think back, I'm like, wow, I don't think he ever actually watched any like roller hockey or street hockey when I was playing. Like, I don't think he was ever out there.

Speaker 3:

Like, it was always go outside play. So that's where I think was the distinction. Right? It's like played so much that it just offset all the intensity and craziness that was going on.

Scott:

Well, so so with that though, the intensity and the craziness, so we're we're talking a lot about like modeling, like, you know, behaviors, more so like pulling back in in a lot of ways is kind of like what we're touching upon. But surely there's times when you need to push. Right? And so, like as human beings, you know, naturally we're lazy in a lot of situations and with the younger kids, know, even when we were kids, was like video games, but not as much. But, you know, are points in time when like you need to push your kids to go out of their comfort zone because they're left to their own devices.

Scott:

They won't do that for themselves. So, I kind of wanted to touch upon like how like the recognizing when to push versus when not to. And coupled with that is, you know, in terms of like, I don't know, like my kids just turned 11, let's say 10, like let's say 10 to when we finish high school, 10 to 18, 10 to whatever. Like, are some of the common barriers that kids are struggling with in those age groups? And if you can kind of like tack that on to like the push and pull on how we can help kids navigate this stuff.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, great question. So the biggest thing is again, it comes back to environment, right? So the modeling aspect of the social feedback you're getting. So something that I've observed recently that was kind of funny of how it's kind of shifted in my mind was last year with my son's my team. Would always say, all right, what are the rules?

Speaker 3:

Right? We're gonna talk about rules and we talk about have fun work hard, right? And respect all that stuff. This year. Now all I say is respect automatic.

Speaker 3:

Number one rule number one rule, right? Say it to my son or hey guys, what's the number on or now the kids are getting used to a number one rule respect respect. Why? Because what I heard was I hear on HL players. I hear other players talk about go work hard, have fun, go work hard, have fun.

Speaker 3:

And I'm like, wait a second. Working hard enough fun. That is a responsibility of the leadership to create the conditions for working hard and having fun. Like me telling you that, hey, go work hard. Well, it doesn't really work that way.

Speaker 3:

Like you're gonna work hard either a because you want to on your own or b, you're surrounded by other people that are working really hard. So it's survive or die kind of thing. It's like, you know, adapt or die, right? It's like, oh man, I got to go. So that's the part that I think a lot of people miss in terms of the environmental structure of who am I surrounded by and what are the conditions?

Speaker 3:

So that's why a lot of gamification where, okay, the kids might not be working as hard. Well, if you gamify it and you turn it into points now that, hey, a two on one game and how many times how many goals can you make? How many you make? When you start to do that, you want to see them work hard, gamify it, turn to a points, boom, they're gonna start working hard right away. So the combination of how we're structuring the environment of are we creating this gamified kind of like, this is fun.

Speaker 3:

I wanna earn points can increase the likelihood of working hard, but then also the environment of, well, who are they surrounded by? Right? Are they around other people that other players that they work hard? They're they're driven. They're doing that.

Speaker 3:

Right? So it's a lot of that type of stuff. And then the other thing too that I found years ago that I would play around with is always fun, right, is I grabbed the phone and when I was doing like stick handling work with the kids and all that stuff, I think you're live on YouTube. You're live on YouTube and it's unbelievable when you do this and you're live, you're live.

Jamie:

I was gonna say the energy comes out, the effort comes out. It's I didn't even think about that. That's a good point.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So so again, right? What did that prove to me was right social feedback that they don't in front of their peers the way they're looking to others. So how do we engage that mechanism? So it's a lot of that right of where you know, how are we producing where we think is, I'm gonna tell my kid to work hard.

Speaker 3:

It's not about telling your kid anything. It's about your kid recognizing in the real world, oh man, if I want this thing, I'm gonna have to work harder to get it. So instead of us telling them what it's gonna be like, we have to recreate the conditions for them to feel, oh man, this is really hard. So like, because this is so hard, now you give them the opportunity to think about, do you really wanna do it? Right?

Speaker 3:

So like example, my daughter, she's in dance and we're having this conversation all the time of the environment she's with with her team. It's a big commitment. Five days a week, they're doing a lot of stuff.

Scott:

And how old does she start into how old

Speaker 3:

does she? She's 11. She's loving Okay. Cool now. Right?

Scott:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So we're constantly reflecting back on her go, hey, this is what you signed up for. You're committed to it. Right? So to your point, that's the other side too where, you know, for us, at least as a family, and this is where parenting gets in of you have to know what what are your values and what you believe in, right? It can't always just be hey coach Vinny said this like please do not just listen to what coach Vinny says not say do your own research.

Speaker 3:

What do you want for your kid? Y'all listen to me like I'm doing what is good for my family and our kids what we believe in you do what you believe in, but you've got to figure out what you believe in. And so, you know, with her now we believe in we want to have those conversations over and over again. So she deduces and comes to it on her own of do you want to keep committing to this because yes, it's hard. It takes a lot.

Speaker 3:

This is yes, we know. Okay. You're crying. You're upset. It's really challenging.

Speaker 3:

We know we know. But again, that's what you signed up for. It's going to be really challenging. So we're there to support you, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't keep coming and complaining and saying it's so hard and not realize like there's certain aspects of it, whether it's stretching, whether extra work you're gonna have to do, this is what it is.

Speaker 3:

So if you're gonna do it, you still have the remaining part of this year to do it. You're gonna keep doing it. We don't quit because we know it's seasonal. Hey, there's gonna be an ending to it and then you're gonna make a choice, but we keep reminding consistently every couple weeks or every month when there's that blow up, hey, remember we talked about this? This is what we mean.

Speaker 3:

If you want to keep working like this and you want to keep staying in an environment that's like this, we can't see you blowing up all the time because as a parent, we're watching that this is creating way too much stress on you. So if there's this much stress on you, that's not healthy to us. We don't mind you going another three, four, five months with it. We'll manage it. We're gonna keep reminding you and parenting you.

Speaker 3:

But if you keep doing this and it doesn't change and this isn't, this is something that is just making you go nuts all the time, it's really stressing you out, then clearly you're in an environment that's too great for what you want.

Jamie:

At this moment in time. Bingo.

Speaker 3:

It shows up. Don't want it like that because there's other people that are doing it, that when they're doing it, it's like breathing to them. They're not complaining like this. They're not freaking out.

Jamie:

They're handling it.

Speaker 3:

Hey, that you're freaking out right now. We're gonna hold you up. We're gonna help you out, but we're not gonna keep doing this year after year and and making it so you're gonna work so hard because it's not supposed to be this hard. And that's what I know at the high performer, right? That we always push on to help people realize like we always point out to, you know, other players.

Speaker 3:

You've got to realize the simple baseline stuff eating right going to the gym working on your skills building connections in relation with your coach. These are baseline things that players at the higher levels are doing before they even work on their mindset. They are naturally doing it like they're breathing air. So if I have to convince you to eat right, if I have to convince you to go work on skills, I have to convince you to go to the gym, you're not there. I have to convince you to do any of that stuff, then you're not even close to that level because that level their baseline is just that automatically that to them.

Speaker 3:

That's not a what do you mean? You don't go to the gym. What do you mean? Would look at you like, So if you're trying to battle with that, you already have no chance because to them that is just a part of their natural way of being like, what do mean you don't do? Of course you do that if you want to survive and that's just the baseline of well, now you have to be in an environment with everybody else that's just like that and get through and figure out how to battle with those with those types of human beings.

Scott:

So James, go ahead. Go ahead.

Jamie:

No, no, I was just gonna say, you know, so it's funny. I feel like Scott and I I don't want to say it was Scott and I kind of did that by taking our kids from triple A down to double I can always fix my child. You know, he kind of had like, you know, a big fall, right? I mean, all of a sudden, you know, it got very hard. There was a lot of stress.

Jamie:

Every time he came off the ice, he had tears in his eyes regardless. He wasn't happy with himself, you know, so we made a change, you know, and maybe at that time, mentally, wasn't ready. Right. He was 11. Right.

Jamie:

So as a parent, you know, when do you know that it's time to make a change? Like how much stress is too much stress? What are the signs, right, that that a parent knows? Hey, listen, like because some people also think that when they leave AAA to go down, they'll never go back, which is foolish. Right.

Jamie:

But I'm curious, Vinny, what are your thoughts on that? Like, how can a parent recognize when, hey, listen, like, there's a problem here and we need to not do this again?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And again, generalizing in its most easiest form for the listeners to simplify it is consistency. If it's consistent where this is becoming more than we can handle as a family, we're fighting is creating a lot of tension, but it's just. Yep. It's for months now, months and months.

Speaker 3:

And we're we're not able to stabilize it, right? Like if it just becomes out of control where that's it, like we're constantly stressed, we're constantly angry with one another. And you can tell it's impacting the ecosystem of the family

Jamie:

of the

Speaker 3:

house that. Yeah, that's pretty much where now, you know, like, Okay, something has to change about what's happening because we can we can get stressed out every couple of weeks. Yeah, it's normal. It's normal. The normal stress is normal.

Speaker 3:

But when it becomes three, four or five months and you now see this has been going on for a while, there's your fine. There's your sign. It's not supposed to like when we talk about regulation, right? Like down regulating, it's supposed to come back to normal, right? Like all homeostasis stuff like our bodies, right?

Speaker 3:

Like the temperature like we have. There's a balancing act that's always happening as human beings. We're always trying to regulate if we get sick. Okay, how do we get healthy again? Our bodies are always regulate, regulate, come down.

Speaker 3:

Right. So when that regulation becomes dysregulated in a

Jamie:

way where it's nonstop and it's over and over over, not coming back

Speaker 3:

to the baseline, you're doing damage. You're now you're it's too much. We're not down regulating. Okay, we're all over the place. We haven't felt peace in a while.

Speaker 3:

This isn't good. So once you hit that stage and you feel it again, you might feel for three weeks. Not concerned, but when it becomes the easiest way is if you go six to eight weeks, start to pay attention. This is a problem.

Jamie:

All right. So let me ask you a question. So a hockey season normally is long, right? What happens if at the beginning of the hockey season, right? And let's say you go, let's say you start in August.

Jamie:

So let's say by the November, you're seeing that over a two month period. What do you do for the the remaining four months? Like, how do you how do you handle that as a parent?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. Well, there's like different steps, right? Because it's all cultural. Just depends on the environment that you're in with the coach. Right?

Speaker 3:

So is it an environment with a coach? Hey, you know what? It's challenging. We're losing games or whatever it is. So the coach is getting ahead of it as a leader and talk to the families about it to help offset that.

Speaker 3:

Is it as a family you're going and you're talking to the coach? Hey, here's what we're dealing with. We're kind of stressed out, right? Versus are we in an environment that doesn't help with that? We don't have these discussions.

Speaker 3:

We don't talk about it and there's constant anger. So now as a family, start to talk about it and that's what you have to recognize, right? The modeling.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And this is where parents have to come in and go. All right. If I believe that you're not going to quit and we're going to keep doing this, then I've got to change and show you how I'm going to model a behavior that we're going to go through this. So what kind of steps and solution? So instead of, hey, it's a problem.

Speaker 3:

It's a problem. It's a problem. Well, hold on. You know, maybe husband, why we talk about him. Go, right?

Speaker 3:

You know what? Okay. We've been doing this for too long as a problem. Let's start to move into solutions mode. And so you start figuring out solutions with your child and you start to figure out, okay, what can we do now?

Speaker 3:

We know it's hard. We know the team's not very good. We're losing a lot. You know, the coach isn't consistent in the messaging. Coach was playing favorites.

Speaker 3:

All the common things that might pop up. Right? So you want to get to the source of it and have those discussions, real conversations calmly. Hey, you know what? Yeah, coach is playing favorites and you are on the, you know, third line or fourth line or whatever is and it's hard.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's hard to deal with. We get it. How are you feeling with it of where you know what? Even though it's hard to deal with, you know what we committed to it. Yep.

Speaker 3:

How can we go talk to coach to keep on getting better? Maybe we can get you lessons with somebody else or we can get you into another group that at least you can have some fun with. We can maybe go do another sport or another activity to kind of create another environment. We can come up ways like that because I was always when I was working with a lot of like youth, you know, years ago of where that would be one of the biggest things I would tell our players is, well, what are you doing to get out of the environment? Where are you going?

Speaker 3:

Like, I remember one player that was even in juniors, That was young at the time, 17 and realized, you know what? Going to church was actually really cool for me because they would go Sundays away from the team. Yeah. And it was like a place that they would

Jamie:

set himself. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It was Greek Orthodox. He loved it. He was like going there for like three, four hours and he was like, wow, it's amazing. I got out of the day to day.

Speaker 3:

And by feeling that again, boom, we felt good. I was able to go back to the team. So it's figuring out other ways of we're going to deal with this, but what are solutions? Can we find another environment? Can we have you hang out with your other friend more?

Speaker 3:

Can we do the things that you actually enjoy more? Because again, right? It's where am I? I'm not enjoying this. We're in it.

Speaker 3:

But what do we know about ourselves as a family that we do enjoy this? So can we create a little more joy? Right? Like the way when, you know, playing in the street, I enjoyed that naturally. Didn't know it was happening at the time.

Speaker 3:

Now when I reflect, it's the same idea, right? It's okay. Well, what can we do to fill our lives with a little more joy in that way?

Scott:

Right. So, so let me ask this. So, we talked about a few things like that you just brought up, like you brought up the idea of like going from the like first line to second line. We Jamie brought up how both our kids went from tier one to tier two. So, like, let's like bucket those things as potential setbacks, right, or perceived setbacks.

Scott:

Perceived. Right? Perceived setbacks. So, in terms of helping kids, you know, at various ages, but like to interpret those setbacks in a positive way. And like, even like, you know, my son, you know, he said, I want to go back to triple a.

Scott:

And But he's had his doubts that like, now that he's played tier two, it's gonna be like that much harder to get there. And then there's some truth to that and, you know, for, you know, circumstances, whatever, but Of course. It's certainly It's far from impossible. Yep. But really like what can we do to help teach our kids how to interpret and deal with what they're perceiving as the setback?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. So I always love narrative work, right? So there's, you know, narrative therapy and building up. It's all a story. The reason they're having that setback narrative in their mind is because they have the story of, oh my God, I'm going to fall behind.

Speaker 3:

I'm not going to make it all this stuff. So the replacement of the story, right? What happens is most of the young kids coming up now is they're very outcome driven in their story. I got to score points. You know, I've got to be able to lift this amount of weight.

Speaker 3:

I've got to make this team. I've got to get drafted and on and on, right? As opposed to process based story. What's the process that's actually happening? So one of the easiest ways to start engaging with that is sit down and do this exercise together as a family separately.

Speaker 3:

Have the kid do it. Have the have the parent do it right of where why do I love to play? Why do I love to play? So have the kid write down. Why do I love to play and be be detailed?

Speaker 3:

Write down what it was that I love about this experience of playing hockey, playing like being a part of it. What is it that I love about it? Right? What Why do I love to go there? And then the parent, same thing.

Speaker 3:

What do you love about it? And then what happens is when you come back, you'll start to see I the kid says, Well, you know, it might be. Love to score goals. I love when the guys when everyone on the bench gets excited about a big play. I love when we win, right?

Speaker 3:

It might be any of these things that come up with like, this is what I love about. It's a lot of fun to be in the locker room. Any one of these things can pop up. Now you reverse engineer. Okay, so that's what I love about it.

Speaker 3:

Then what's the process look like? So if I'd love to score goals, well then what are you doing day to day? What can we do then to create more opportunities to score goals? What are you doing? Like, can I talk to my linemate more?

Speaker 3:

Can I practice my shot more? Like, can I make certain plays where I can give a given go? Can I go to the net more often because a lot of goals happen there? So what you start to do is thinking about process based language on. So what can I do day to day that actually feels like I'm going to go experience the process as opposed to the outcome of I scored because this is what we unwind big time with our players all the time is get them to realize?

Speaker 3:

Well, what were the behaviors that led to what happened? It's the behaviors of the experience. So step one is why do I love to play? Like here's what it is, but then you reverse engineer and go. So what behaviors is that gonna require for me to have a good time doing that?

Speaker 3:

And so what happens is now that you develop that language system, now you have something to talk about consistently about that. Oh, so you were trying to make that play. Oh, what happened on that play? Yeah, I was trying to make it there. Maybe your team lost six to one and it's another heartbreaking.

Speaker 3:

Oh, that stinks instead of us talking about six to one. What we're going to talk about is yeah, I saw that play that was tough. Yeah, it was really hard. Like I noticed their defenseman like the way they Gap up. They're really quick on you.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, I've got to work on how I protect the puck in that situation a little bit more and then maybe I can pull up and be a little bit more deceptive. Now you're talking more about the process of what's going on and you can nerd out on that. Really talk about why you love it, what you're doing and the creation, right? What you're doing of how you're focusing in on your process. How am I getting better at this?

Speaker 3:

Well, as a family too, by the way, same same dynamic as a family.

Scott:

Yeah. And so thinking about younger kids and I think there's, there's a maturity factor in what I'm about to say, but like, you know, let's just take skating for example, right? Like, you know, a kid wants to be a better hockey player. They need to become a better skater, but they don't like to do skating work. Right?

Scott:

And so at some point, like you were saying, when you think about the professionals or like D one college athletes, like their baseline is it's it's there. Like they they they love the suck if you will or it's just it doesn't suck to them. Let's put it that way. But some, to what extent do you like push, I don't know if I push younger kids, you just wait until the maturity happens. Like if my kid says, need to score more goals, well, okay, go shoot more pucks.

Scott:

I don't like shooting pucks. Well, okay. Do I, do I make them do? You know what I mean? Or do I just wait until they figure that out for themselves?

Speaker 3:

So happy you stepped into this question. All right. So, you know, th this is the part that I always share. So the skating example is a great one, right? So I'll give you a context of so last summer, right?

Speaker 3:

So each summer I teach my son take the bag boom may hits I drop and I go that's it. We're done see in August, right? Because I want them. I want to know like, hey, we're going to take a break and we're going to do something else. He loves soccer, right?

Speaker 3:

Love soccer. So I'm knowing that I know skating muscles are going to get developed by playing soccer.

Scott:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So to my dad, right? He's what do you mean? He's not skating. Right? I tell my dad is like, he's not going to get some.

Speaker 3:

What do you mean? He's not going to How is he gonna get better? I'm like, watch. So I know now the conditions, love soccer, boom, soccer. He's playing with the team.

Speaker 3:

There's a kid down the street that he plays with. I'm just soccer soccer soccer. He's on the ground developing his force production, the agility, duh duh. And I know what's happening. He's developing his skating because of all the movements that he's doing naturally because he loves soccer.

Speaker 3:

I'm gonna let him go do that and it's still developing. So even though I'm not on the ice and he's not doing it and he's not thinking in the context that we think it is, what I'm always looking for is, yeah, but he loves soccer. So, and I know as a developer that will still develop his legs and where he needs to go. So eventually when he starts to get older and he starts to hit thirteen fourteen, he may decide, you know what? I really love hockey.

Speaker 3:

I'm gonna work on my skating. Now he's ready to take in all the technical and he's gonna go at it. In the meantime, the foundation's being built, right? The structure of his legs are still being built in soccer. So that's the example for parents is, are you fighting for the natural alignment instead of fighting and saying, you need to do this and you do that?

Speaker 3:

Can you find other ways around and say, well, you know what? They're going to do this or they like to go run outside with their friends and play. So at least they're on the ground. Can you see it in a different light where you're still developing this when they do this? Right.

Speaker 3:

That's the art makes sense.

Jamie:

You know, it's very funny that you just said that because our interview with Bob Mancini, Scott asked the question, you know, because he was talking about putting your bag away, too, and going and doing something else, another sport. Right. I think he said something. It was a very high number of U. S.

Jamie:

Men's national development players were multisport athletes. Right. I want to say he said like 87%. It was it was a high number, right?

Speaker 3:

Oh, yeah.

Jamie:

But so what what what Bob was saying, Scott was asking, you know, if we go play another sport, does it have to be a structured sport like soccer, like football, basketball, like baseball? And Bob said it could be going out riding your bike, going out and playing tag with your buddies. It could be going out and doing jujitsu boxing. It didn't it didn't matter, you know, and that was a question that Scott and I've had for years. You know, does it have to be another sport sport structured sport?

Jamie:

And his answer was no. As long as you're doing something, which is exactly what you just said. Bingo.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. 100%. And again, it's as a parent, knowing you're a kid and looking for that, right? Like our values are we're always looking for that. Right.

Speaker 3:

I'm always talking to my wife about that of like, what do they naturally gravitate towards? And we're watching it. And it's hard for other people to understand it, right? Because they think, right? Like, even with my my team, right?

Speaker 3:

I had one of our coaches. He's like, when are we gonna get serious? I was like, yeah, it's pretty serious. Yeah. Was was like, yeah, I love him.

Speaker 3:

He's like, are total gem. And I know, let me watch I was like, yep, that's right, coach. Yeah. That's funny. But this idea of we think it's serious about what?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. About what? What are we what are we doing? Like, are we getting serious about? Like, when they

Jamie:

Not turn even that age. Zero.

Speaker 3:

Even worst case scenario at 12, 13, they decide to be serious. They've got three or four years ahead of them to then get to the serious people. Like I tell people all time, like, nobody literally cares and starts watching till you're 15. Well, they start to watch, but they don't really care what you're doing where it's like, okay, it's time to put up a shot up is sixteen seventeen. Right?

Speaker 3:

It's another six seven. There it is. Right? Really like because that's the age where if it's not there at sixteen seventeen, the changeover of it's a junior is like, Okay, it's not going to it's hard once you're 19 and you figured out there's juniors, like you're probably done, like you're not going to get the environmental constraints you need to develop into what you need to develop. And that's the part that we don't realize.

Speaker 3:

Like, we have plenty of time. What are we what are we doing? Right. Even myself, when I think about I didn't get in the gym until basically 16 this summer. Right.

Speaker 3:

So I was always kind of like wiry. I mean, I had a natural wiry ness and strength and also. But when I finally went to Freaky acceleration in Boston, I got in the gym, you know, and I put on I went from like whatever it was at the time. I was like one hundred eighty to two zero five. Right.

Speaker 3:

A bunch of people locally, like in the area of where I was from originally here in Cherry Hill. Oh, he's doing steroids. Was doing three eighteen bro. It's creating. But when that happened, I got strong.

Speaker 3:

It was like, woah, a whole another player came out.

Scott:

Yeah,

Speaker 3:

I was almost 17, but but he was like, I was playing playing playing. I was always good, but locally nobody would have thought he's gonna get drafted. I had my local coach, right? Bud Dombrowski was saying he's like forget about the NHL Vinny. It's never gonna happen.

Speaker 3:

Like no, no one from this area doesn't happen all that stuff. I leave home. Boom. I start working out and now it's like, woah, what happened? I said, because no one knows I was almost 17.

Speaker 3:

Basically 17 when that happened. No one knows. And that's the part that we think by working harder. We're going to speed up nature and it's just not reality. And that's again, these are the discussions.

Speaker 3:

We just don't have nearly enough of like what Bob's talking about and anyone who's in the realm knows of like that's why multi sport and all that stuff. Right? Like, that's why it's fun to watch, you know, be able to say to my dad until your point right on the skating. Yeah. It was so much fun.

Speaker 3:

He comes and sees him and he sees him in September. He's like, oh, he looks looks better. He looks. Yeah. What?

Speaker 3:

Soccer. He wasn't doing skating all summer. It was soccer. Yeah. But it's we just don't, you know, we're not.

Speaker 3:

And again, another point, we're not taught this. We're not we don't discuss this enough to give parents permission to not feel so crazy because, oh, that's the reality. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Everyone else is doing that. Okay. As opposed to you've got a lot of parents that go on spending, spending, spending, and their kids are on the ice and they're unbelievable right now. Right? There's some kids.

Speaker 3:

My son was playing on a team. Right? And he was like, oh my god. Like you played on my triple a team this summer. He's like, they're so good.

Speaker 3:

And I go, right. Because they skate a lot and they do a lot of stuff, buddy. But trust me, I tell you, you keep going and just do your thing don't worry about it do your thing I promise you in two to three years you're gonna catch up to all of them you're gonna be on the same plane if you want this if you want to do this you just keep doing what you're doing you're gonna be on the same level buddy you're gonna be you're gonna be fine you don't need to chase and be at that level wherever they are and they're gonna land. They're not gonna expedite physiologically, biologically, how they're gonna change. They're not gonna make themselves faster and better and none of it.

Speaker 3:

It's not reality.

Jamie:

It's okay. Everybody comes back.

Speaker 3:

Everybody. Oh,

Scott:

so kind of like, like with, so kind of like what we're talking about now, you know, the, the, the over investment at the younger ages, etcetera, etcetera. Something that often comes up that we talk about is the idea of burnout and like, you know, overly identifying with hockey. Right? And we're talking, you know, this whole conversation has given a lot of ideas, information and thoughts about how to avoid that. But like, to like be like, I guess a little more direct in answering like the idea of avoiding burnout.

Scott:

Like, are there like a few like, you know, best practices like top three, top five that you would recommend to families on like, you know, these are things that we're not necessarily gonna avoid burnout but if you do them, you're increasing the likelihood Yes. Of burnout.

Speaker 3:

Yep. Great question. So I always think of it as initial the story of, you know, Johnny Gajaro rest in peace of I always used to give this insight to parents back in the day, right? I was over at a pro skate and I was doing like hockey director. So there's one local AAA kid I was working with.

Speaker 3:

I was 10 years old. I remember the dad asking me worried about burnout. He was like, Oh, how do I know if I'm burning him out? How do I know? How do I know?

Speaker 3:

I'm like, Did he ask to be here at 05:30 in the morning? Yes, he did. He woke up on his own about all this stuff. I'm like, Great. And I would give the analogy.

Speaker 3:

I was like, Johnny Goodrell, like all of you guys think you're by doing too much, I'm afraid I'm going to burn out. I remember Johnny playing eight, nine hours at Hollidale would play and play and play and play, and there was no burnout. He was a part of teams that played 100 games a season. There was no burnout. Why?

Speaker 3:

Because he loved it that much that there was no such thing as burnout in his repertoire because he loved it like that. So that's one of the first signs is being mindful of is my kid obsessed like that? Is my kid always on their own? Do I see them on their own doing things on their own, stick out, shooting? They're asking to go do things on their own.

Speaker 3:

So that's the first sign. Let them be the dictator to that. Like, it's like they're dictating and telling me. So if you're seeing that, boom, you're good. Now, if you're not seeing that, and this is the other side, is that if you're the one pushing that, you need to do this, you need that, and you're catching yourself and you're doing that too often and you can see, okay, I'm aware.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I'm the one that keeps driving the narrative. You need to go do more. That's how the number one way you're gonna produce burnout because if it's not kids or kids, they want to play All the research backs it up. They're playful by nature.

Speaker 3:

Right? We start out as artists and creative. We want to play. Once you start taking away that mechanism of play, you're trying to turn them into an adult with responsibility. So once you start to take that away, that's what happens of why burnout starts to happen is I want to play and you're making it all serious.

Speaker 3:

The more serious it has to become and the more we take away play, the more it's like, I don't like this. And the more the nervous system starts to feel, I don't like this, the more the mind starts to feel all this stinks, the greater and greater likelihood the burnout is gonna start to happen. So that's the first thing, right? Is making sure that what does that look like of the relationship between I'm receiving this information, okay? I see naturally what they're doing, but then how am I nurturing?

Speaker 3:

Am I pushing too much? So that's one of the first things you have to be able to do. Right? The other part then is getting them out of their own way. So there might be as a family, lot of times where burnout can happen that a lot of people misperceive too is we are playing a lot and we're doing a lot, but then my child's not eating not eating enough and they don't drink enough or whatever or they don't get enough sleep.

Speaker 3:

That's a big issue, right? You have to be able to look at that. Is my kid. So I remember, you know, I had one family member, you know, won't say no that's of like who and what the dynamic was but I remember, you know, when they come out and they were about seven at the time literally, you know, eight years old seven coming out of a lesson going seven days a week all the time playing playing playing playing playing would come out. What would they get tanky taffy and a coke and I remember studying this stuff.

Speaker 3:

Remember going geez. Woah, wait a second. If he keeps doing that and that keeps going, I'm telling you right now done by thirteen fourteen years done because if you keep revving the engine like that and that's how you keep fueling, it's inevitable. I don't care how much passion they have, how much they do. Boom.

Speaker 3:

My clockwork 15 years old stopped came back and all, but it wasn't the same of like I had enough of it exhausted. Blah. And I'm like right because I knew the engine eventually was going to burn out of you cannot go. So that's another thing you have to pay attention to is how much of the sleep food intake that if you are doing a lot and you are playing a lot, you have to be mindful of. Wait a second.

Speaker 3:

How much are we fueling and getting rest? Like you have to pay attention to that because that will create burnout big time. And then the third one is a big one is the environment you're attached to. If you're in a toxic culture, screaming, yelling, berating self worth, and you're feeling that all the time, you gotta get out of here. You gotta get out.

Speaker 3:

Like no matter what of like, because what happens is for because what there's always a duality right in those environments. Usually there's the kids and the families who don't feel that from the staff can do no wrong. We have we love you a ton. So they don't get that. But if you're getting that energy, if it's like right, I always make the argument about tough love of what nonsense it is.

Speaker 3:

There's two words in there, tough and love. If you're always tough and you never show love, that's not tough love. That's just tough. Yeah. So if there's no love and there's no love being given back from the environment, have to leave because that will burn you out because it's too much on the nervous system of I as a human being, I know you don't believe in me.

Speaker 3:

I know you don't truly care for me. I don't I don't need you to tell me that. Oh, I'm just being tough on you. Just, you know, it's tough love. No, no, no, The way you're acting is not tough love.

Speaker 3:

That's abuse.

Scott:

Right.

Speaker 3:

Yes. So that is burnout. So those would be the three big ones of, you from an environmental standpoint, really paying attention to what you're putting in your body, how much you're resting to again, you know, being able to look at environmental factors and like, alright, how much is just natural? And I just love doing it, right? And you're paying attention to that.

Speaker 3:

You know, those would be the big ones that for sure, you know, any one of those three or combination is what typically leads to burnout.

Jamie:

Yeah. So so it's it's funny, Scott and I have talked before about we all put so much money into this game, in gear, in lessons, in tuition, in everything. And I think one of the things that we as parents don't do is we never address the mindset or the mental side of a young athlete's development. And we put so much money into everything else, the physical part of it, right? The off ice, the on ice.

Jamie:

And I think that this and I obviously, you know, society is figuring it out slowly. I think that the mental part of, you know, I mean, the perfect example, you're the NHL's first mental performance coach. I mean, there's a reason why, right? The top level starting to figure out, hey, listen, like this is a problem that we need to start addressing. And I hope that it filters down to the, to the, the youth players and youth parents because we spend all this money and he on all this stuff and yet nobody spends money on a mental performance coach.

Speaker 3:

100%.

Jamie:

100%.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because I think where the biggest constraint we're facing with, you know, mindset or mental performance, anything in that category is that we've like everything else, we've individualized it. We think it's all about the individual nature of, you know, of the process. How am I thinking about it? How do I need to perceive and how do I need to control my emotions and do all these things, which is a big part of it, right? The me part is big.

Speaker 3:

But what I found with high performing, we're talking about now, all right, I want to be a part of a high level culture in anything you do. I don't care if it's hockey, work, family, right? High standard and principle and values. It's always the same thing. You want to be a highly functioning human being and that's what you're shooting for.

Speaker 3:

The biggest issue I see in the space is it's not just individuality. It's not just me. It's the we. There's a collective thinking that doesn't go on in development process. So a lot of organizations, what they think is, oh, mindset mental.

Speaker 3:

Oh, all right. I've got to go, hey, this kid's messed up. Can you work with him Vinny? You know, on his own. But what people don't see behind the scenes is, and I've said this for a while now, is the players that we have that are that are gamers.

Speaker 3:

It takes about three or four months before they figure out our frameworks. Our tools are okay. I get what you're where you're going with this. It hits them like a ton of bricks and it's like an awakening. You're like, oh my God, that makes sense for themselves, right?

Speaker 3:

They manage their emotions what they need to be aware of how consistent they are in their behavior. It hits them like, okay, I get it. Now what we spend years on developing because it's always changing, They might go from juniors to college to pro. There's constant evolving of the environment. Then what we're spending a ton of time on is the collective thinking.

Speaker 3:

Well, how does your coach see it? How does your line mate see it? Who are you guys going up against? So we spend way more time talking about what is going on actually from the environmental factors that you're gonna have to work around. And so that's the biggest misconception of why organizations are struggling to see it, think, because it got categorized as another individual development thing.

Speaker 3:

And what I've made the argument now for a while is mindset performance should be collective in nature. We talk about building a family and building trust in the team yet. You think it's all going to happen because we're just going to get better as hockey players. Like you really think if we just keep working more on our systems and we get a better power play, you think that's going to fix the problem? The system is never the problem.

Speaker 3:

It's the humans operating. Tons of people can play a one three one, right? Everyone's doing the same system one three one, but it's the humans how they're interacting, how they're thinking about it, the timing, the rhythm, the discussions they've had. That's ultimately what dictates. And that's a huge problem in the industry that we're not solving for is that we're not having enough of a discussion about collective thinking, having these discussions openly.

Speaker 3:

So coaches with families, with players, coaches with players coaches with coaches, like we're not sitting collectively going. Do you think? How do you see it? Why are you seeing it that we're not clear on that? And because we're not clear on that, we're just leaving it to the individual.

Speaker 3:

Of course, we're gonna keep having problems because all we're doing is I'm in my own head thinking I have solved it when the reality is you have no idea what the other people you're participating truly think. And until that happens, I don't care how much mental performance and mindset work you do. Hockey is a collective game. We understand what everybody's thinking, not just you.

Scott:

That's that's it's so interesting and just to hear you put it like that is is like so eye opening, honestly, and it's it's just wow. Let's let's let's hope that that others are, you know, those that are listening or are gonna heed that advice and, know, I you know, this has been a wonderful conversation. I think we're getting a little long, but I think that's a great place to to to wrap things up. But before before we do, please, if you could just share with everyone that's listening, like where to find you, how to reach out to you, that'd be fantastic.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Easiest ways. I'm on Instagram, you know, at Coach Vinny Malts, you know, find me there. Check us out there. And then I'm also on LinkedIn for the parents as well.

Speaker 3:

Right on there, it's under Vimeo and stuff like that. It might be under Vince on LinkedIn. A little bit more pro. Yeah, a little more professional.

Jamie:

I got to I know.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the duality, right? I'm like, where you go? But yeah, message me there and all that stuff. I'm you know, it takes me about twenty four hours tops. I'll get back at some point also.

Scott:

But, you know, that's that's amazing. Well, eye opening conversation. Thank you so much for taking time out to speak with us.

Jamie:

This was amazing. We know you're busy, so thank you very much for the time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I appreciate you guys. I mean, I love what you guys are doing. It's it's important conversations. So thank you guys. Thank you.

Jamie:

Appreciate it. We'll definitely have you back on. Yes. Awesome.

Scott:

All right, Vinny. Thank you. Have a great day.

Speaker 3:

Bye.

Jamie:

Okay, everybody. We are back from our awesome interview with Vinny Malts. I hope you guys enjoyed that. He is a wealth of information. The

Scott:

guy Unreal.

Jamie:

Yeah. Our first interview like that with a guy like him. We have not we've touched on that topic briefly or early on in some of our podcasts, but we don't we're not qualified to speak about what the stuff that he covers. Yeah, you know, he's a he's a he's a very, very cool dude. Like we have to have him on again.

Scott:

Yeah, you know, it's like literally listening to him talking. I'm thinking to myself. I was like, number one, I need to sign my kid up to to learn to learn all the things. But then I'm also thinking about it and I'm like, alright. I wanna send my kid so, you know, he becomes like mentally stronger.

Scott:

Yeah. But then I'm also thinking like, all the things I'm doing are like wrong. So it's like, oh, geez. Maybe I should start with, you know, just backing off and it's but isn't that like what we what happens all the time? Yes.

Scott:

It's like we talk about something or we, you know, we have an amazing interview like this and like you hear the same things from a lot of different people, whether it's people tied to the game of hockey, parenting pocket, whatever, blah blah blah, you know, and it's like, yeah, totally makes sense. And then then you're like, okay, maybe I'm good for like a couple weeks at best. And then like, oh, no. All of a sudden, it's just like, no. No.

Scott:

No. No. No. No. All that stuff, you just throw it out the fucking window.

Jamie:

Window, dude. Yeah.

Scott:

But like,

Jamie:

you forget about it. You literally forget all the things you're supposed to be thinking.

Scott:

But, but dude,

Jamie:

how And your does emotions take over.

Scott:

But even look, we we've called each other when we're kind of like bent out of shape and blah blah blah. No. No. Okay. Well, or text or whatever.

Scott:

I

Jamie:

don't know why. Have no idea what you're talking

Scott:

about. No. But it's like one of these things where it's like, you know, just like, okay. You know, I'm all bent out of shape by like, hey, Jamie. I'm fucking bent out of shape.

Speaker 3:

Blah blah blah blah

Scott:

blah blah blah. You know? And then you're like, dude, you know, just calm down. It's all good. And then it's like, this is what happens.

Scott:

You have the you have to get a case of the fuck its. And you're like, no. Fuck it. Fuck it. No.

Scott:

No. No. Fuck it. I need to be harder. I need to be this.

Scott:

You're like, fuck it.

Jamie:

So It's

Scott:

like the fuck its are the worst.

Jamie:

One thing I did take away from Vinny's interview was he said it's okay to be mad. He said it's okay. But he said, but he said you start to get mad and it's okay to be mad. But then in those five to ten seconds, you got to come down and go, okay, reassess the situation. Right?

Jamie:

So that he did say that it's okay to get mad. But then he said, ask his kids, right? He's like, ask my kids. I'll tell you. Then he said it's okay to come down.

Jamie:

And in that five to ten seconds, you then become the rational parent again.

Scott:

Right. Yeah. Because we're all going to make mistakes. We're all going to trip up. And he even, you know, like, you know, he himself does it too.

Scott:

And like exactly what you were saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the piece about having a supportive environment for healthy growth for kids, it's like, you know, I just can't think about how many times I have kind of sabotaged that environment.

Jamie:

Think you are.

Scott:

Not all

Jamie:

of lost.

Scott:

I'm not getting what I want. You know what I mean? Like, my kid might not be doing the right thing and maybe he knows better or maybe he hasn't figured that out yet. But like that's he he will if if, you know, if he continues to play the game and continues to, you know, grow with it, you know, he's gonna learn. But like for me to take away an environment where he can feel safe or he feels like supported, like that's on me, man.

Jamie:

Yes, it is.

Scott:

You know? And that's the part

Jamie:

I'm that guilty of it too, buddy. I get it.

Scott:

No doubt.

Jamie:

I think most of us are right. Most of us competitive parents are. And I think sometimes we lose the forest through the trees, you know? Yeah. No.

Jamie:

And then he said, just kind of get out of the way and let your kid just, you know, create a good environment so you're not hampering your kid. Right? And I think, and I have done that. There's no question about it. I've done that in the past.

Jamie:

Right. There's, there's no question

Scott:

about it. And I'm working in the past, sixty seconds.

Jamie:

Like in the past, weekend, like literally in the past couple of days, you know, and I'm trying to not do that and I'm getting better, but fuck, that's hard. That is hard. That is not an easy skill. I'm sorry. It is not.

Scott:

No. But like, I think that I think So much the piece easier

Jamie:

said than done.

Scott:

No. Right. And I think the piece that maybe I use to rationalize times when I don't want to bite my tongue And that's like, you know, my kid I I need as a parent, I need to also show my kid the right path. And while it might be well intentioned, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. And that's the piece that I can lose sight of.

Scott:

And what you were saying before, as I'm losing my train of thought right now, so much stuff swirling, but oh, the feelings part. You know, we tell our kids at home, we're like, you know, it's okay to feel however you feel, but it's like what you do with it, that's more important. You know, it's like if you feel sad right now, feel sad. If you're angry right now, feel angry. But like hitting your sister, that's not what we do when we're angry.

Scott:

You know what I mean? And so, yeah, it's it takes practice, dude. It fucking takes practice.

Jamie:

Yeah. All need to go go need to sign up for Coach Vinny, period. No doubt. And our kids. Well, listen, he mentioned during the interview, you know, part of why he actually went down this road is because he needed to fix himself.

Jamie:

Right.

Scott:

Well, also talked about his parent parental unit.

Jamie:

Yeah, he did. That was interesting when you talked about his, his family dynamics. He said it was tough when it was tough, but there was a ton of love in the household, which was, you know, which is how it should be, you know? Right. Yeah.

Jamie:

Fun interview, man. Really, really fun interview. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3:

What? Why?

Jamie:

You don't see her? Came into the room. Sorry, everybody.

Scott:

All good. What's up, Rory?

Jamie:

Yeah, exactly. Rory's, she's, she's crashing the, the podcast. But yeah, man, no, he was great. I, again, bloodlinehockey.com. Know, Vinny, what I say coach Vinny, what I say, coach Vinny Malts, at coach Vinny Malts on Instagram.

Jamie:

He's a very impressive guy, as I'm sure you guys all heard from the interview. I don't need to tell you. If you need anything from him, he I'm sure he's more than happy to talk to you. He's got some really cool things coming, with this business.

Scott:

Yeah. Some of the stuff he said he wasn't even able to share just yet.

Jamie:

He wasn't able to mention yet.

Scott:

The way he teed that up, it sounded like, I think he might even use the word revolutionary.

Jamie:

He did. He most certainly did use the word revolutionary for the game, which is really cool. Now he's a, I want to have him on again. He was so good. I need to have Dominic talk to him too, because I think again, us as parents, we neglect, that part of our kids game.

Jamie:

We spend so much money on training, physical training. I think we really, really don't pay enough attention to that part.

Scott:

Know, well, you know, it's just yet another thing to put on the list of to dos in terms of working with our kids. Don't know, man. Like, know, and it's also like the the piece that's like, you know, when when is it when does it make the most sense? You know, like and there's no you you probably can't be too early to do that stuff. But man, it says it becomes, you know, you've got limited amounts of time, got to prioritize all that other stuff.

Scott:

But yeah, you know, after listening to speaking with him, you know, it just, yeah, feels super important.

Jamie:

Yeah. So, not not to change gears at all, but we had a, a listener write in, from from from the Dallas area.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

I know if you saw it. Yeah. But she had, I'm not sure I say if it's a he or she, but, so the listener wrote in and, I responded to them too, but they were listening to, I want to say it was like episode 18 that we did 13 or 18, which was on private equity.

Scott:

Yep. Yep.

Jamie:

The business of youth hockey.

Scott:

Yep.

Jamie:

And they, they happened to bring it up at an interesting time because Black Bear is kind of in the news recently in the hockey world, you know, they're kind of under fire a little bit from what's been going on in some of their rinks. So I thought the timing was very interesting that this person happened to see that episode and reach out.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah. I know there was I've seen that, you know, like parents are being told they can't record and like they they kind of backpedal. So I've read the THF and the AHF rules and it seemed very clear that like there was no recording allowed whatsoever. And then they they went back and said that, you know, of course, you know, recording is something that's a part of, like, you know, your kid's journey, a special time for your kids.

Scott:

Of course, you're gonna wanna record it. Mhmm. I'd have to go back to see because I remember when last season, I read it because we were recording our games. Yep. You know, not for rebroadcasting, but, you know, for teachable moments.

Scott:

And we we were told in some rings we couldn't, And that it even said in like the rules of the THF and I think the AHF as well that if you get caught recording, like, your team could get like we have to forfeit the game maybe. I don't know. I I might be misquoting the rules, but it seemed pretty clear. I didn't seem like there was like, oh, maybe they're just talking about broadcasting, you know?

Jamie:

I have experienced firsthand. Okay. Being in a Black Bear rink where the person literally walked up to a parent and said to them, like, need to stop that right now. God forbid. God forbid you put a GoPro behind the net.

Jamie:

Oh my God.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

I mean, that's not right.

Scott:

I've been told to take things down immediately.

Jamie:

Oh, right. So you've experienced it too. Know?

Scott:

Yeah. A 100%. But like I wasn't, it wasn't, it's not like I had my phone in my hand. I had like, you know, a proper, you know, camera meant to record ice hockey.

Jamie:

What about the, the pixel lock camera?

Speaker 3:

That's what I

Jamie:

had. Right. Or the pixel lock camera that teams put up to to break down film. You know? I mean, I mean, come on.

Jamie:

I mean, there's, you know, listen, that in my opinion, I think Blackbear needs to revisit. Right. And I think

Scott:

maybe it sounds like they are.

Jamie:

I hope so. Right. I think the other problem with Blackbear is, is that I don't I'm pretty sure there's not like a BlackBerry employee. Maybe that's not right. Like, I feel like there's not like an official person to go to in some of these ranks if you have an issue.

Jamie:

You know what I mean? I feel like,

Scott:

What, like, what kind of person are you envisioning?

Jamie:

I'll give you a for instance.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Okay. We were at one of the early showcases and the iPad stopped working. Yeah. Okay. Because I guess they don't want to use game sheets anymore.

Jamie:

So they have their own proprietary system. Blackbear does? Yeah. I guess they don't want to pay for game sheets. Yeah.

Jamie:

So they came up with their own. Okay. Okay. And the iPads didn't work. So, and there was nobody to go to and say, Hey, like, you know, can you give us a little bit of like, you know, like tech help here?

Jamie:

Like it wasn't working. Right.

Scott:

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Jamie:

Yeah. So, you know, you know, so that was a problem.

Scott:

Wouldn't that be like the responsibility of like the rink to be like onboarded with like would think so, yes.

Jamie:

Know how? Again, you would think

Speaker 3:

so, Because if

Scott:

it wasn't black bear and it was just like, let's say their normal scoreboard and it wasn't working, you'd get someone in, like, operations at the rink to, like, have a look. You would think that same position at whatever rink would be trained on the iPad. Or not. That's what I would hope.

Jamie:

Our iPad, our iPad, the iPad did not work. And to this day, probably like five or five weeks out, a month out, that game still is not recorded in our overall record.

Scott:

That's crazy.

Jamie:

Yeah. Wow.

Scott:

Well

Jamie:

I'm not sure how responsive BlackBerry is with that stuff. You know, you know, and so I think they

Scott:

Watch as Tyler. He would know.

Jamie:

No, he did. Yeah, he did. He does not know that he he's we are all like a little flabbergasted.

Scott:

But who's their point of contact at Blackbear? The organization must have a point of contact. Mean they got sold to Blackbear, you know.

Jamie:

I'm sure. Listen, there's certain things that Blackbear I think does okay. You know, and there's certain things I think Blackbear needs to fix. Right. I think I think it's like, I'll give you an example of something that's good that Blackbear's done.

Jamie:

Okay. I think that the the teams that are in Blackbear's leagues are good are the competition is decent. Depending on your birth year, right? It's not it's not across all birth years, but this is from my own experience. Our showcases this year.

Jamie:

We're not playing like dogs, like we're playing like big time teams.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Right. So, so, so our showcases are, are very good. Okay. Again, on the flip side, you know, I think that the whole not being able to record your kid is ludicrous.

Speaker 3:

Right?

Scott:

Yeah. I mean, sure, that's like, that's an obvious one with like low hanging fruit also to fix that in my opinion. Right. But, right. Yeah.

Jamie:

Like, like the, you know, the, the, the price of things, you know, I think kind of like irritates some people, you know, mean, tuition and more expensive now.

Scott:

Yeah. Like, I don't think I've talked to anyone about Blackbear and, and had anyone say like

Jamie:

Glowing reviews.

Scott:

Positive, like, glowing reviews. It's it's like, you know, I look, it's obviously easier to give negative feedback a lot of time than positive feedback. Right? But I I I think that there's some things that I you know, the recording of things, some of the, you know, price, for example, that like grates on people. I mean, it affects them in very significant ways in their pocketbook and like, you know, these are my, like, know, my kids' like memories with my kid.

Scott:

Yeah. And like, you're putting up, you're making it difficult on both of those things. It's like, come on, man.

Jamie:

And this is the, this is the most expensive youth game out there. And, and for you, for you, for them to Jack the price up. I, if you're jacking the price up and you're giving a better product, it's another story. Right. But if you're jacking the price up and giving a subpar product, I'm not so sure that makes sense.

Scott:

But like, what's also like interesting about the whole thing is that you have the rinks are still being operated. Let's just say by the same people that have always been operating it. So there's like, there's a gap between like ownership and like boots on the ground.

Jamie:

Yes.

Scott:

You know what I mean? And like, you could probably have operators at certain rinks that are doing a fantastic job, you know? True. True. And and maybe even made some improvements along with like the increase in

Jamie:

I would hope so. I would hope so.

Scott:

Right? You know, so I, you know, again, I'm no expert on the matter. I guess I'm just saying in some instances, it's probably a little more complicated, but nonetheless, I, you know, I think that we, you know, we've talked about, if you've read the news or Instagram, whatever, you know, you've seen things about, you know, people that taking up like legitimate issues.

Jamie:

Yeah. I think I think you and I need to reach out to to Black Bear and we we should try to get them doing the interview with us and we'll ask the important questions, you know? Think think I'm working on it.

Scott:

All

Jamie:

right. Definitely working on it.

Scott:

Let's do

Jamie:

it. Here we go.

Scott:

All right, my guy. So what do think? We wrap this one up?

Jamie:

Yeah, absolutely. I hope everybody enjoyed, the interview with Vinny Malts. I thought it was great. I hope you guys got a lot out of it. I hope he helped you.

Jamie:

He is great. Yeah.

Scott:

Think that's more like a fact.

Jamie:

Yeah, no, he is great. He's tremendous. I hope, I hope you guys got a lot out of it. He, again, if you need to reach out to him, Instagram, coach Vinny Malts, bloodlinehockey.com. He's a very, the guy's a wealth of information.

Jamie:

We need to have him on a bunch more.

Scott:

Yep. No doubt, dude. Yeah. All right. Great episode.

Scott:

Yes. Appreciate you.

Jamie:

Yeah. Likewise, pal.

Scott:

Yeah. And And to all of our listeners, have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Jamie:

Oh, have a

Scott:

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy with your family.

Jamie:

Very happy Thanksgiving.

Scott:

That's

Jamie:

it? We'll see you guys in episode 43.

Scott:

Alright. See you then.

Jamie:

See you home, wife. Peace. Later.