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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards Podcast presented by Fabrica Five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, and Bam Bam, and I plan to smoke a couple cigars, drink some scotch, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs.
Gizmo:So take this as your two hundred and forty first official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke two short cigars tonight, share our thoughts on them, and give you our formal lizard ratings. Listeners share their thoughts on Davidoff's inconsistencies. We discuss box codes on non Cuban cigars, and we share the cigars that have overtaken the Cubans in our rotations all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
Gizmo:So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair 18 years age Johnnie Walker blended Scotch whiskey with the Davidoff Grand Cru number five and the h Upmann Majestic. Majestic. A Dominican and a Cuban tonight on the pod, boys. Correct. And we are back to the famed Short Smoke Special.
Gizmo:This is our seventh Short Smoke Special and our first, if you believe it, since December 2024. Wow. So we're coming up on almost two years since we've done a Short Smoke Special. So for folks who haven't been with us in the past, when we've done these, we're gonna do two short cigars, two small ones. We're gonna start tonight with the Davidoff Grand Cru number five, which is a 41 ring gauge cigar by four inches long.
Gizmo:And then we're gonna go and do the h Upmann Majestic from Cuba, which is 40 ring gauge by five and a half inches long.
Bam Bam:A twenty twenty two box. Correct.
Gizmo:So let's pull out the Davidoff boys. Let's start with this. Back to Davidoff. We've had a run of questionable Davidoff cigars on this podcast, and this thing is tiny.
Bam Bam:On a per inch basis, could be the most expensive cigar we've smoked.
Gizmo:Yeah. And we're gonna get into that. But when this came in, I was actually shocked how small this felt. Yeah. I mean, it feels almost like smaller in my hand and like an H up and a half corona
Senator:or something. Gonna be like
Bam Bam:a ten minute smoke, dude.
Senator:I think we should have done three smokes
Rooster:by the Yeah.
Gizmo:We might have to. Alright, boys. Yeah? Let's cut this thing.
Rooster:Well, we actually tried to get the other cigar, which is discontinued.
Gizmo:We did. We tried to get the number three. Yeah. Which unfortunately is discontinued, so we went with the number five.
Rooster:And that is my favorite. Yeah. You love that cigar.
Bam Bam:Right? And I'm lighting my cigar but via candlestick.
Gizmo:We haven't gotten to the light yet. We're just going to the cold draw if you've been been here before. Oh, fuck.
Bam Bam:You just said that's edit all that, please.
Senator:It's alright. It's amateur hour. Good morning, ma'am.
Gizmo:So for listeners out there, this is a
Bam Bam:for today.
Gizmo:This is a matinee recording today. We haven't done this since Yeah. I was just told the Microfiche episode, episode one, was the last time we recorded it in afternoon, and this week, we have some crazy schedules. So here we are in a Sunday afternoon recording, boys.
Bam Bam:Typically nocturnal for us, but not today.
Gizmo:So what are you guys getting on the cold dry here?
Bam Bam:I don't know.
Gizmo:Yeah. Because you just lit yours. Oh, cedar. I'm getting some nice
Bam Bam:dried fruit. This is a wonderful cigar.
Rooster:It's really
Bam Bam:nice. All the Grand Cru's are just so delicious.
Gizmo:Mine's like a salty fig nougat.
Pagoda:Yes. I get all that and there's a little bit of cream.
Bam Bam:Oh, these are
Rooster:all for me,
Bam Bam:well known for really heavy cream Alright,
Gizmo:boys. Let's light this thing. First up tonight, the Davidoff Grand Cru number five, the Petite Corona. And, again, it's a 41 ring gauge cigar by four inches long. Coming out of the Dominican Republic, of course, as all Davidoff cigars do.
Gizmo:Scars has a long history, been around for a long time, this line. So we're going go through that. I'll talk about the history of this because I found it pretty fascinating. And hopefully, a little bit of flavor redemption for Davidoff on this podcast tonight.
Bam Bam:Interesting.
Gizmo:Nice on the way. So this is also the first time in doing a Short Smoke Special that we are doing the Cuban second. This is the first time. We've always done the Cuban first.
Bam Bam:First. Okay.
Gizmo:Based on what you were expecting here on the Majestic and this
Bam Bam:Strength wise.
Gizmo:We decided to go strength wise, start with this one. We expect this to be a little bit lighter in body.
Bam Bam:It's
Rooster:nice on the light.
Bam Bam:So it's good for you in the light,
Gizmo:Mhmm. Interesting. Don't forget you had a false start on the light, so you got give it a little bit
Rooster:of a
Gizmo:second to get going.
Bam Bam:I'm a little disappointed right now, but let's see.
Pagoda:BAM's falling apart at the seams.
Bam Bam:I am because 4PM recordings are out.
Senator:I'm like, it's too early in the day.
Bam Bam:I'm discombobulated.
Gizmo:You hit some balls earlier? Like, it's an afternoon.
Bam Bam:That was so much fun.
Gizmo:You're good.
Bam Bam:I gotta tell you, that was great. Had a
Gizmo:good Bam's getting into golf.
Rooster:We're talking about golf, by the way.
Bam Bam:Bam and productivity.
Rooster:Yeah. Let the listener might have their own Correct. Balls and bam. That was good point of clarification. That could go anywhere.
Rooster:Very nice.
Senator:Well done. Well done, old boy.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Spent a good hour and a half at the range. My son was on the other end with the coach.
Gizmo:Nice.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It felt great.
Gizmo:This cigar is really nice. A lot of flavor. I gotta tell you though, as we're getting into this here, I wanna start by saying I was blown away when this came in based on how expensive this is. Let's hear it. Senator, guess because I already told them.
Gizmo:Senator, guess how much the cigar is?
Pagoda:16.
Rooster:$16.50,
Gizmo:And that was with discounts.
Pagoda:I only guessed that because the Millennium Petite Corona, which looks identical in size, is is about that.
Gizmo:I think It's a that is double the price of what this should be.
Pagoda:It's a crime. It's insane.
Rooster:It's an elite marker.
Gizmo:I love the flavor right now, though.
Bam Bam:I'm getting a little kind of like an acidic experience. It's very unusual for this line of cigars and I'm
Gizmo:a little disappointed right now. Again, I think you're judging it on I don't know.
Bam Bam:I'm gonna let it sit.
Pagoda:This is gonna be like every liquor pairing. Gonna go from turpentine to it's a 10. This is definitely gonna be a 10
Bam Bam:tonight. I need a drink.
Gizmo:We're gonna we got a minute on that one.
Bam Bam:Alright. Pagoda, what are you getting?
Senator:Mine's not lighting up really well. It's like You want another one? I don't know.
Pagoda:My only advice would be to give it a second because actually when I lit mine, I was getting such little combustion. Yeah. It was so strange. And maybe 10 puffs later, all of a sudden, it started to open up, and now I'm getting good smoke.
Senator:Yeah. So I'm right there then. It's like,
Gizmo:Rooster, how's yours?
Senator:Perfect. You don't quite expect that on a $16 cigar though.
Gizmo:Yeah, absolutely. More than a grandpa.
Rooster:Now, like Sandra said, once it goes, it goes. It just initially, the size is small, it took a little bit to light it. Okay, keep going.
Gizmo:I love this cigar right now.
Rooster:It's a perfect morning, afternoon smoke because it's creamy, it's light, there's not a lot of pepper in it. It's got a little dried food, almost also a nutty, like a cashew cream kind of thing happening. Typically,
Gizmo:yes.
Rooster:Grapes with coffee.
Gizmo:On a cigar this small, should we do thirds?
Bam Bam:Yeah. Right?
Rooster:I feel like
Gizmo:Should do halves or something. No. Have. We're coming to the end of that.
Bam Bam:Well, cigar. In about four minutes, we'll be there.
Gizmo:Yeah. Exactly right. First third. It is a third.
Pagoda:I really like the flavor. I just wish that the size were different. Like for a petite Corona, for me, if it's going to be this small of a ring gauge, I need it to be longer to not feel so awkward in the hand. Or if it's gonna be this short, I just wish it were a little wider ring gauge. So I remember when I had the Millennium Petite Corona, I mean, I liked it for its flavor, but this is never like the ideal size for a petite Corona to me.
Gizmo:I agree with you.
Rooster:Yeah. So I agree with you, but the next size in this is probably the number three. The Grand Cru number three is a five inch 43 ring gauge, which to me, it's a good size if you're not looking for
Bam Bam:a
Rooster:longer commitment and you just want a short smoke, but not very short.
Bam Bam:And the two, what's the dimension on that?
Rooster:Two is a 5.625 by same ring gauge, 43. Slightly longer.
Bam Bam:That's the only Grand Cru that I'm really familiar with and fell in love with. And I had the Robusto as well. Those are both delicious.
Rooster:I have not had the Robusto. Didn't even know they had the Robusto. They're still out.
Bam Bam:Down in Princeton, had that. This, I will say, is a touch different than what I experienced in the Grand Cru's line.
Rooster:It's weird. Every single Grand Cru Vitola tastes different. No two tastes the same. The number two is different than the number three. My favorite is the number three.
Rooster:And I'm actually a little bit disappointed when I smoke the number two. The number three for me is spot on. Wow. I
Bam Bam:have to try it.
Rooster:It's kind of like this. It's kind of more like the five, I think.
Pagoda:How so? So how would you describe the difference between the two and the three?
Rooster:The three is creamier. The three is almost identical to the number five, I think. The number two has some note that I probably can't pinpoint. It's a grain it's something yeah. Well, that's not offensive.
Rooster:There's something about it that's not too crazy. But unless you smoke both of them, then you make
Bam Bam:You'll have to do that.
Rooster:Yeah, you'll have to try the number three.
Bam Bam:I'm finding this one, this is getting better for me, it's nutty with a touch of earthiness, but not the typical tapioca graham cracker I was expecting from the other ground crews in it.
Rooster:I think the number two, now that I think about it, the number two is a bit milder than the number three. Number three is kind of like this. It's got a little bit more body.
Bam Bam:This does have more body. Yes. It's quite nice.
Rooster:That's what I like. Great with coffee.
Bam Bam:Remember, it's daytime.
Senator:Do you even need coffee with this? It's it's pretty creamy.
Gizmo:I love the flavor on this right now.
Rooster:Yeah.
Gizmo:It's awesome.
Bam Bam:What are you getting?
Gizmo:I'm getting like a salty, creamy, bready nutty thing. Nuttiness? Actually, I find it to be a very elegant, smooth experience.
Bam Bam:Any minerality at all? Not really. Touch of earthiness? No.
Senator:Got the nutty salt to you, is Yeah, that's one different from the yeah.
Gizmo:The salt is really pleasant. I guess what irritates me is I'm just watching $16 burn, and it's like we're ten minutes in, and it's already like
Bam Bam:It's about $3 Yeah, right
Gizmo:like I'm already about $4.05 dollars into the experience.
Bam Bam:That's incredible, man.
Gizmo:So the idea of where, even if I rate this well tonight, where I would reach for this, I can't even think of an example. Like, am I in between trains? Get off one train and there's another one coming in six minutes. I like the $16 number
Senator:five from
Gizmo:the Crown Pro
Senator:Super Bowl. I'm a winter night. I'm I'm smoker.
Gizmo:You go.
Senator:You'll be able to keep up with them. Exactly.
Rooster:When you're walking your dog maybe.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Rooster:On a winter day.
Gizmo:Yeah. It's hard in this kind of thinking, this Vitola size generally where I would sit this somewhere, it's hard not to reach if I'm going for something nice, the Davidoff Bellicoso. Correct. Winston Churchill. I mean, coming in at what?
Gizmo:A third of the price of this?
Bam Bam:I'm sorry.
Gizmo:Half of the price?
Bam Bam:The flavor's superior to this in my opinion.
Gizmo:I don't know if I'd say superior. I think this is really, really good. Really?
Pagoda:Yeah. The flavor of what is superior?
Gizmo:The Davidoff Winston Churchill bellicoso. The short one.
Bam Bam:Our little tins.
Gizmo:The little tins that we like.
Rooster:I kinda like this one.
Bam Bam:Better than that?
Pagoda:I think they're different.
Gizmo:They're different. I don't think it's
Bam Bam:they're different.
Gizmo:I think it's apples and oranges. Okay.
Bam Bam:Apples and prunes.
Senator:You know, I think I might have just slightly retrohaled. I'd it was very cappuccino like. Yeah? Yeah. It was very, very
Bam Bam:I need another cigar.
Senator:It was really good.
Bam Bam:I'm kidding.
Gizmo:Are you serious? You
Rooster:want one?
Gizmo:Okay.
Bam Bam:No. Not for 16 and a half dollars.
Gizmo:So, boys, let's talk about the Davidoff Grand Cru series. I actually found this pretty fascinating. So the Grand Cru lineage goes back all the way to 1946 when Xeno Davidoff introduced the original Bordeaux inspired chateau formats in Cuba. The modern Dominican Grand Cru name came after Davidoff left Cuban production. Remember, he took all those cigars and lit them on fire in a big bonfire in protest of how, you know, Habanos or Tabakuba or whatever it was was treating him.
Gizmo:And then he moved his production to the Dominican Republic around 1990. Apparently, after the split, the series was renamed from the Chateau series to the Grand Cru. And Edinger Davidoff's own history says, Davidoff cigars have been handmade in The Dominican Republic, of course, since 1991. So this has been around since that time. So the original regular production Grand Cru family was the number number one through number five Corona format lineup.
Gizmo:So here's the five. So the first is the Grand Cru number one, forty three by six and three thirty seconds inches discontinued. The grand crew number two, as we were just talking about before, forty three and five and five eighths, which is still available. The grand crew number three, which we were trying to get for this episode tonight, found out it's discontinued, 43 by five and one sixteenths. The grand crew number four discontinued 41 by four and five eighths inches.
Gizmo:And finally, the one we have in our hand, still widely available, the grand crew number five, forty one by four. And then in 2016, Davidoff added two classic Vitolas as as it relates to the the success in the American market, of course, the Grand Coup Robusto and the Grand Coup Toro 52 by five and a quarter, 54 by six respectively. The Toro being the largest in the line. Then, of course, they we've talked about this one a little bit, certainly as it relates to the LE 80 from Kellner. Remember that DiaDemis shape, the Grand Cru DiaDemis Finis limited edition came out and it was 50 by six and three quarters.
Gizmo:So that was the same size as that Kellner DiaDemis cigar. Right. And like I said, discontinued are the number one, number three, and number four. So that's the story. I find it fascinating though that these date back in thinking, I would assume, not so much flavor or presentation as the classic chateau boxes from Davidoff that still pop up from time to time on Bond Roberts and Is that right?
Gizmo:Elsewhere on the
Bam Bam:Oh, Really?
Gizmo:Yeah. Eighties, Davidoff still pops up. And let me tell you.
Bam Bam:How much are
Gizmo:those? They're a little more than 16 a stick.
Rooster:100. 300 plus a
Bam Bam:Jesus. Mhmm. Yeah. Also.
Gizmo:If not more. So based on where we're at right now and where you're at
Bam Bam:This is good, actually.
Gizmo:Do you think that we should have done the Cuban first, or do you think we've made the right decision?
Pagoda:I haven't even had the Cuban. It has to be this. This is very mild.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. I know. The Cuban actually is gonna have a bit more body than this. Cool.
Bam Bam:You'll see that. Yeah.
Gizmo:Cool. I'm glad
Bam Bam:you're I haven't had one in nine months.
Rooster:Just by looking at the wrapper, this is such a light Connecticut shade wrapper I believe, right? It's Ecuadorian. It's light. It's very light in color. Kind of like the perception is that it's a milder smoke.
Rooster:You look at the Upmann, it's a much darker, chocolaty red.
Bam Bam:Quite a nice wrapper.
Rooster:Beautiful wrapper on
Bam Bam:there. Yeah. Not toothy, but still Yeah. Quite nice.
Gizmo:So to follow-up on your question there, Rooster, filler and binder are Dominican. Wrapper is Ecuadorian. These cigars come in boxes of 25 retail at $410 for 25 of these. A single cigar listed on their site at $16.40. We got a little bit more than that with tax.
Gizmo:So again, pretty diminutive cigar for Outrageously priced. $16.5 You
Senator:know, smoke output It's awesome. It's awesome, and it's a very velvety, very Yeah. It's a very, it's an excellent smoke.
Bam Bam:Cigar's hitting
Senator:a Coming out of this little.
Bam Bam:It's hitting a stride for me right now. Yeah. Really quite nice.
Senator:Right? For a very small cigar,
Rooster:I So if this was an inch longer at the same price, would you be a buyer?
Bam Bam:No. No.
Gizmo:I think it would need to be 46 by five and a half for me to say 16 would be I'd even go up to 18 or 20 on that size. I can't get in the sixteen range for
Bam Bam:a petite Corona. The Grand Cru number two that I bought down in Princeton, that was like $22 That's also a lot of money.
Pagoda:It is. I'll say this. The problem for me is I wouldn't be a buyer regardless of the size of that price point. I don't think many are gonna disagree with this. I mean, the cigars that we're willing to spend more on and invest in in some way are medium medium full cigars that we're gonna smoke in the afternoon and the evening.
Bam Bam:For at least an hour sit.
Pagoda:Yeah. Don't like prioritize, you know, my cigar dollars for a cigar that I'm gonna have in the morning where I'm gonna drop $20 on like a mild cigar. That's not the most important smoking occasion for me. And so and also, like, not what my palate loves it. Like, my palate only wants a milder cigar in that morning's window.
Pagoda:All the rest of the day, my palate is craving more flavor. So for me, you know, any stick that's really $16.18, $20 is not really something I would prioritize at all for a morning cigar regardless of the size when I've had milder cigars that you can have for like $8 to $12 that I think are also very satisfying to start a day with. That's just my philosophy.
Bam Bam:That's a forty five minute sit for those cigars on average. Let me ask all you guys that smoke earlier in the day and you're planning on an evening smoke. Does the early light to medium cigar, is it like a teaser for you, and does it ramp up your craving for a cigar later in the evening? Does it kind of set the table to a degree?
Gizmo:I find the more cigars I smoke, the more I wanna smoke. You know what I mean?
Bam Bam:I agree with that.
Gizmo:Like when we have a long sit, right, all of us sitting together, I wake up the next morning like jonesing.
Bam Bam:Really?
Gizmo:Like yeah, because I just enjoyed the experience, I'm thinking about it, what was great, what wasn't, I immediately want to jump into another Same.
Pagoda:I mean, to Gizmo's point, we were at the lounge last night, and I enjoyed every cigar I had.
Bam Bam:How many did you have? I wasn't here last night. I was in flock party.
Pagoda:Yeah. Maybe four.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Pagoda:And this morning, I wanted a cigar. I had to get some yard work done. I lit up in Aladino, Connecticut this morning, and it was great. And as soon as I finished it, I wanted another,
Bam Bam:but I
Pagoda:had some other stuff I had to get done inside, so I couldn't wait to get here to light up another cigar.
Bam Bam:Must be the youth rooster, because I had four cigars last night. I didn't even want to smoke this one right now. Really? No, I'm happy to be here though. Yeah, I don't have that craving after a long sit the following day.
Bam Bam:I feel like I need a break.
Rooster:Yeah. Instead of having like four or five or six cigars in one sitting, I kind of prefer having one or two after breakfast and then one after lunch and maybe two after. That would be a cigar.
Gizmo:We smoke five in the time that you smoke too. You are a slow smoker, man.
Bam Bam:He is, but unless you're sitting with us, then you'll do a longer.
Rooster:Few number. But I'm saying in ideal days, like when I you know, after a meal, it just tastes better.
Bam Bam:Perfect timing.
Rooster:Instead of having like five, six in a row. Just prefer it that way.
Pagoda:I love a cigar before a meal, though. For example, I was at a birthday dinner two nights ago, and it was raining initially, so we were inside, and then it had stopped raining.
Rooster:Well, the rain changes everything. Then you really want a cigar
Gizmo:when it's raining.
Pagoda:Well, you do. But the staff at the restaurant basically wanted to bring the food and have a smoke after dinner, and almost all of us at the table were craving a cigar before dinner, and so we were like, No, tell them to take their time in the kitchen. We wanna have a cigar before dinner. We'll eat, and then we wanna have another cigar after dinner.
Gizmo:By the way, he was at Chuck E. Cheese one of his kid's friend's birthdays. Correct. Are this around? Negotiating with Chuck about cigars.
Pagoda:This birthday involved McCallan AT, they Blue Label, so not not a kid friendly birthday.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Pagoda:Fair enough. But no, I just love a cigar before dinner. I feel like it it then gets you even more excited about the meal, and then after the meal, you kinda cap it off with a great cigar.
Bam Bam:You know, the only time I'm doing that is when we're all out to dinner at a steak house where we can smoke, and there's a place not that far from here. That's, for me, the ideal time to have that cigar before dinner. But other than that, I'm not usually having a pre dinner.
Gizmo:Like whenever Mrs. Gizmo and I are going out for a steak or a nice meal or something, I'll try to get one. I'll slot one in before I go. Nice. Smoke one, rinse off, That's
Senator:and cool. You know what, just just sense a lot of weakness in this bloody room. A lot of weakness.
Gizmo:Okay.
Senator:I don't know what's going on over here.
Pagoda:From the two old
Senator:boys. Right? That's okay. What's going on?
Bam Bam:I need a break after a long sit. At least a day buffer.
Gizmo:This cigar's excellent, man.
Bam Bam:That's good.
Gizmo:Thank you. Actually, I'm having an issue kind of doing the calculus in my brain of like, based on where this would potentially even sit, would I even buy this again, the price, but also how delicious it is.
Pagoda:I think for me, like, you know, why I had fallen in love with the the signature number one Lancero, that limited edition Davidoff put out, like, the flavor profile is actually very similar to this. It's creamy. It's nutty. The only thing that has this doesn't there's like a little bit of a citrus note that you get in that, and it's got more body than this. Like, it it leans more medium.
Bam Bam:Well, it's because there's a nice buildup on that cigar. It's
Pagoda:much longer. Totally. Yeah. But that's where like, that's a long cigar, it's a Lancero, so it's not cheap. That runs, I don't know, maybe 25, but to me, that was worth it because I'm getting a full sit out of that.
Gizmo:Yeah, you get an hour hour and a half, hour forty five maybe,
Pagoda:if Exactly. You're And I would typically light that up in the morning, so when I had time for a leisurely morning, like coffee, check email, stuff like that, I'd pull for that cigar, but it's just in a short format to pay that kind of premium. That's just what I have a hard time with.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's essentially half the cost of that cigar because I think that thing's probably going for if you can find them for over $30.
Pagoda:Oh, now yeah. You know?
Bam Bam:So this is half the price of that signature one, and look how diminutive it is.
Pagoda:Yeah. It's ridiculous.
Rooster:It is not burning very fast, though.
Gizmo:It's not. It isn't. I mean, we're twenty some odd minutes in. It's and I feel like we could probably get another 25 out
Bam Bam:of this.
Gizmo:That's true.
Bam Bam:Know? That's true.
Rooster:So to get forty minutes out of a, what, four inch cigar,
Bam Bam:nice.
Rooster:It's not, you know But, yeah, the price $16 is still high. It needs to be around, like, $10.
Senator:But ten minutes an inch, I think that's really good value.
Bam Bam:I'm not saying a word.
Gizmo:So boys, before we get too far, of course, we want to enjoy our pairing tonight alongside both cigars. So we're coming up on the halfway point here on the Davidoff Grand Cru number five.
Bam Bam:Can I have a drink for fuck's sake or no?
Gizmo:That's what I'm teeing
Bam Bam:up. Okay.
Pagoda:Come on, Giz.
Bam Bam:I wasn't listening.
Rooster:Speak faster.
Gizmo:And with that, it's time to go to our pairing. We have the 18 years aged Johnnie Walker blended scotch whiskey. Cheers, boys. I did it again. Weeks in a row, forgot the Glencairn glasses.
Gizmo:I apologize. Unbelievable. Drinking this neat. Cheers. Good to see everybody.
Gizmo:Yes. See how this is. Has anyone ever had this before?
Senator:No. I might have. I don't even remember it. I know I've had the Shivers 18.
Gizmo:This what
Pagoda:Lizard m, I'll call him, who was excommunicated from the group at our former lounge, Isn't this what he used to drink?
Bam Bam:Yeah. This and the silver. What year is that? I
Pagoda:think it's like, that box is silver. I I'm pretty sure it was this in '18.
Bam Bam:You might be right
Rooster:Yeah.
Bam Bam:Back in North Korea.
Pagoda:Because I remember when I had finally tried it, I mean, thought it was I didn't think very highly of it when I would see him drink it because I don't have, like, the highest opinion of Johnnie Walker. But I remember a number of us had tried it, we were like, this is actually pretty good. And I took a sip of this, and this is pretty good.
Gizmo:I like it. I like it.
Bam Bam:The finish is really unique.
Senator:I think it's a nice light yes, very light.
Gizmo:Light whisky.
Bam Bam:There's a very fruity finish for me here. Really quite good. I'm getting like a candied apple type of a finish for me and some sort of a crisp. It's very nice.
Gizmo:Spot
Bam Bam:on. Little caramel. That finish is really unique. Finish is great.
Gizmo:No burn.
Bam Bam:No, not at all.
Gizmo:So this is of course 40% ABV, 80 proof. So as you know, boys, I always like to read the back of the box, the flavor notes and whatnot. I find this hilarious. Here you go. Rich indulgence, caressing fragrant fruit, soft spice coursing through dark chocolate.
Gizmo:That doesn't taste anything like what I'm having.
Bam Bam:I'm getting a little spicy.
Senator:A little spicy. Baking spice maybe.
Pagoda:The fruit is definitely there.
Gizmo:Fruit's there. Yeah. I'm not tasting some chocolate.
Senator:No dark
Bam Bam:chocolate. No dark chocolate.
Senator:You know what's really also interesting is, like, you know, when you have the black label, the 12 and the double black, they have very distinctive flavors. Like, I can make out, like, you give me a black label, I don't know. It's nothing like it.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Senator:It's a very different format.
Rooster:So more like Chivas, like lighter? Well, I
Pagoda:just think the flavor profile, mean, the black label and especially the double black, those are peatier.
Senator:Yeah.
Pagoda:This is much sweeter. I mean, you don't get much peat at all
Bam Bam:in this. No. Anyone getting a hint of cinnamon as the finish dissipates? That's the only spice I would say that I'm getting.
Pagoda:Yeah. Right? On the finish for sure.
Gizmo:It's quite good. Yeah, there's a little cinnamon there.
Bam Bam:I'm a fan.
Gizmo:I agree with you. Yeah. So how much is this bottle, Senator?
Pagoda:Total wine, I think it's 65.
Gizmo:Okay. That's not bad. No. That's not bad at all. No.
Gizmo:This drink's really nice.
Pagoda:It does. I mean, for an eighteen year
Gizmo:when Yeah.
Pagoda:If you're drinking a single malt at
Gizmo:18 How year much was that Macallan 18 you were drinking $100 bottle. Are you serious?
Bam Bam:No. Thank you.
Pagoda:It's like $3.80 now from Macallan
Gizmo:That's crazy, dude.
Pagoda:So is that worth it? Oh, actually, no, it's not. So funny. Really? No.
Pagoda:I mean, just I've I've always felt that way, but just have had it as recent as just two nights ago, like, I can very definitively say that, especially since we recently did the fifteen year.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Pagoda:So the 18, one of the guys brought, and it was a gift for the birthday boy, but we were all enjoying it. And even the birthday boy himself and everybody you know, it's a crowd, everybody's brutally honest. Like, I kinda felt bad because, you know, his friend brought him this, and he's like, this really isn't that great for the price. I mean, I prefer and like all of us were basically saying, there are other single malts that we prefer at a fraction of the price point. And no joke for me, I think the the new, the current 15, is smoother, and I might even go as far as saying like a little richer, or maybe I just enjoy that flavor profile a bit more, so it feels richer on my palate.
Pagoda:It had a bit of a bite. Everyone was using ice.
Gizmo:What?
Pagoda:Wow, that's a crime. Everyone. On 18. That's a crime. I had to put a couple chips of ice.
Bam Bam:Because of the
Pagoda:heat. It was hot. Where that 15 is the smoothest thing Is you'll still possibly 43? I'm not sure.
Bam Bam:18? But how do you do that? How does it get hotter as it gets older?
Pagoda:And it was funny because the other bottle on the table was Johnnie Walker Blue, and that was way smoother than mechanical.
Bam Bam:Oh, sure. Yeah. I looked for the 15 today, and I couldn't find it. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Bam Bam:I need to
Gizmo:You can get it at Total One.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's where
Gizmo:I got it.
Bam Bam:That's where I'll go.
Gizmo:You know, I was actually thinking about toying with the idea of maybe doing Macallan 18 on our five year anniversary later this year, but certainly sounds like it's not the go to you know, exciting pairing for a celebration. I have to find something else.
Pagoda:And it's sad too because it seems that MacCallan has, like, kinda tried to step things up a notch in that. I was looking at the box of 18 and the old 18 bottles. There was never a year statement that when it was bottled on there. Now I noticed it said, like, bottled in twenty fifteen or, like, 2015 release or sorry, a 2025 release or something like that. So they're actually putting a year now to these bottles of 18, which is usually like a super super premium spirit, but I just don't think it drinks particularly refined for like an eighteen year single malt.
Pagoda:And oh, that's what we were comparing it to actually. Every single person at the table, of course except the person who brought that bottle, said that they felt that Balvini 21 was better than that McCount Portwood.
Gizmo:Yeah. That was good.
Pagoda:Was better than that McCown 18, and the Portwood you can get for like 300, where this is freaking almost $400.
Gizmo:Yeah. Didn't we do that for episode 200?
Pagoda:I think so.
Gizmo:I think we did that. Wow. That was a great spirit.
Pagoda:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:I gotta say, we're off to a good start here with the cigar and the pairing. Very happy with this. I'm glad this is as light as it is because I think this is actually gonna do well with the Cuban, you know, in addition to this Dominican that we're having now.
Bam Bam:I think it's doing very well with the Dominican. Yeah.
Gizmo:Nice flavor here. Mhmm. Alright, boys. I wanted to go into I'll get to some news in a little bit, but since we're smoking a Davidoff, I wanted to get into a discussion. We teed this up last week on last week's episode.
Gizmo:A discussion that began off of our episode discussion on FOH and got into a ton of comments about folks' reaction to the things we've been saying and feeling about Davidoff. Right? And of course, tonight, we have a cigar in our hand that we're critical of its price, celebratory of its flavor. But we've had a good a pretty strong run of cigars that both in price and flavor from Davidoff have been pretty lackluster, say the last two, three, four cigars we've done from them. So I wanted to share some of these comments here and and see what you guys thought.
Gizmo:So first up, this was a funny one from user Tom Ribs two ten. He says, it's a great episode, and the absurdity of the Davidoff advertising was next level. It's a shame senator couldn't join our heroes because he was in line for the Swatch Audemars Piguet collaboration. What what color did you get?
Pagoda:Only a real Audemars Piguet. No no interest in the Swatch collaboration.
Gizmo:Alright. So user n y Guido says, I'm right with you guys on Davidoff and have extensive thoughts on this, which we'll try to enter in as structured a manner as I can. I'm absolutely having the same experience that you guys are. I find myself more often disappointed with Davidoff and struggling to see the value of maintaining them as a core part of my rotation and collection. Recent construction issues, blend changes, annoying marketing, lack of cohesive vision, and out of touch prices are forcing me to reevaluate how I engage with their cigars.
Gizmo:It's a real shame for me since I've been a huge fan for years. The new releases are falling flat. I've gifted away most of my twenty twenty five chef's editions to friends who wanted to try one because I have no interest in smoking them. The Porro Domenicano wouldn't stay lit at any RH, which I guess is fine because the flavor is mediocre at best when the thing is even burning. But the thing that upsets me most is how far short the current production runs of, quote, old releases are falling.
Gizmo:Millennium Robustos have been as close to a daily as can be for me over the past three to five years. The boxes I've picked up in 2026 have been abysmal. No cream or cocoa, all corojo, earth, and minerality. No amazing cappuccino notes. A sad cigar compared to what it once was.
Gizmo:Anniversario series is tasting a bit sour even at lower RH. Grand Cru, which is the one we have in our hand tonight, boys, is holding, but they've discontinued the number three, which is my favorite vitola of the entire line, which is very much in line with what Rooster was saying a little earlier. Of course, the question was then I asked everyone, are we being too harsh on Davidoff? His response here, are you being too harsh? No.
Gizmo:All caps. Davidoff positions themselves as the pinnacle of the market, the best of the best, the Eligito rolled Cohiba of the non Cuban world. They charge top prices, and in turn, they promise the promise has been top quality. That's the deal we've made with them. Their blends and their construction used to back that up and leave me feeling like their sticks are expensive but worth it.
Gizmo:Now, no way. They're missing what made them great, and in pretending they're not, they're flailing like someone willing to drown because they're too afraid to admit they can't swim.
Bam Bam:That is a very, very good statement.
Gizmo:I like that line. I do too. Makes me sad because the cigar world is better when Davidoff is firing on all cylinders. Like, f one is better when Ferrari does well, and the NBA has a certain sizzle when the Knicks are competing for a title. I wish I didn't read that sentence.
Gizmo:Keep slamming them. Keep being honest about what you're experiencing. Maybe call Klaus Kellner and see if his dad wants to go back and helps them they'll help them fix this mess because I'm about ready to write off Davidoff and relegate them to the memories of what was instead of keeping them in my rotation of what is.
Senator:Wow. I hope he's a winner this week, by the way.
Gizmo:He's won it quite a few times, so I'm gonna give it to someone else. But that's an excellent call.
Rooster:It's a great great email.
Bam Bam:Very good.
Rooster:And everything you say is about Davidoff. It's absolutely
Senator:Spun on, yeah.
Rooster:We agree with every single thing you said. I mean, it's talking about the Purro Dominicano. And I tried one last night. Another one? Yeah.
Rooster:And exactly. I mean, it doesn't even stay lit. It the the ash doesn't hold. The flavor is off. Like, this cigar is actually blowing away the Dominicano right now.
Gizmo:Oh, it absolutely is. You know? Yeah. And, you know, you have to figure too. You we're talking about what size of this cigar would you be willing to pay 16 for?
Gizmo:The Corona Largo was what? 44 by five and something. Right. $23.24 bucks.
Rooster:Like, if this cigar came in that size,
Gizmo:it would be that should
Rooster:be worth like $15. Yeah, right. Exactly right.
Gizmo:Here's another one from Lizard Sonic Stag. He says, at first when Davidoff bashing started, I did think you guys were being harsh. But with hindsight, I think you might be right. Davidoff has followed Habanos and become all about marketing and expensive limited releases. The construction is no longer reliable.
Gizmo:Take the Maduro Robusto. I've had good and bad constantly going out, and it gets frustrating even more so than with a Cuban. Davidoff reliability is no longer there, and yet their prices just go up and up. When it comes to purchasing now with the lie with the reliability gone now, I'd rather put my money to play the Cuban lottery or to Padron. Here in The UK, we pay higher prices anyway.
Gizmo:So when you are paying a high price, you expect expect reliability, excellent flavor, construction, etcetera, especially from a supposed high end premium new world company. Davidoff really need to look at what is going wrong as something quite clearly is. A major retailer here is always having to regularly promote Davidoff limited releases at a heavy discount, and they're still not moving them. That never used to be the case. Even with the limited New World brands available here, there's just so many that offer better quality and value for money than Davidoff.
Gizmo:Keep up the great work you guys do. And whatever has happened to Pooba? He disappeared in the vortex. And by the way, the lost passport, that was pagoda worthy. So I talked about my lost passport story on that episode.
Gizmo:Pooba obviously was on a couple weeks ago when we Oh, I remember. We discussed BAM's foray back into Pyongyang, North Korea.
Senator:He Yeah. Joined the
Pagoda:studying for the bar exam. Clearly, he passed with flying colors after his prosecution of Bam's
Gizmo:That's correct. Examination. Excellent examination.
Bam Bam:He'll be my first adversary in court.
Gizmo:Here's another one from our friend, the Cigar Soldier. By the way, check out his podcast. It's really good. He says, I completely agree on all of NY Guido's points I just read before. I smoked a Millennium Robusto a few weeks back, it was the exact same experience you're describing.
Gizmo:All earth, none of the cream or cappuccino that used to be the spine of that cigar. I had a Nicaraguan diademo, another one that was stellar in the February when it was released. All pepper now, no flavor. The company has gone seriously downhill, and I'm at a point where why take a $30 chance on a Davidoff when I can have a $12 stoic, a Trinity Robusto, and aging room that beats the brakes off of
Rooster:it.
Bam Bam:That is all correct.
Gizmo:I mean, that's why I wanted to share this with you guys. I mean, I'm happy that I'm not happy that this is happening with Davidoff, but I'm happy that we're I'm feeling validated that there's a lot of folks out there having these experiences because I get this in the emails. This is obviously a great thread on FOH discussing it. I mean, it's kinda crazy.
Rooster:And these guys are experienced listeners that you're that have emailed us. I mean, the guy has a podcast. The other guy, I mean, obviously knows he's been smoking Davidoff Millennium Robustos for the last five years or whatnot. You know, that was in his daily rotation. And for him to say that the flavor has fallen off and, like, all the cappuccino and chocolate notes are gone.
Rooster:And it's true. That's what we're noticing.
Bam Bam:It sounds like Davidoff's in trouble.
Gizmo:Here's another one from a How user, could
Rooster:they let that happen is what I don't understand.
Gizmo:I don't get it.
Rooster:It's such a big company, such a big marker. I mean, it's it's insane.
Bam Bam:So we talked about how when we go to lounges across the country or locally, you don't ever see anyone smoking a Gurgaon. You said that, senator. I agree with that. I'm actually seeing very few people smoke Davidoff's in a lot of places I'm going to around here. It's it's happening.
Bam Bam:I I feel like there's gonna be a precipitous drop in their sales. I think Davidoff is in trouble. You don't see people smoking
Pagoda:in it. This is very true. Right? I mean, honestly, years ago, you always would see
Gizmo:It's someone true. In Somebody had a Davidoff. Correct. Always. It was almost a little bit of a status symbol.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's true.
Gizmo:You know, someone, you looked at that person like, Okay, they're smoking a lot of Davidoff, like they're doing well, they're enjoying great cigars.
Bam Bam:Even North Korea.
Gizmo:That's where I saw it most.
Bam Bam:No, when I walked in that day, I usually look at what people are smoking, and I didn't see a single Davidoff in anyone's hand.
Rooster:I mean, the pricing has gone up. It's gotten ridiculous. They come out with so much new stuff that's not performing like it should. And they're ignoring their core line. Yep.
Rooster:They're eliminating half of the Grand Cru series. They're you know, the Millennium series, which is your it should be their bread and butter, I would imagine.
Bam Bam:I
Rooster:agree. Probably the most popular and most flavorful Davidoff that used to exist. Mhmm. And they're ignoring that. Yeah.
Rooster:So the blend has changed, and people are not buying those. So that that's not good.
Gizmo:Yeah. Speaking about Millennium, this one is from user Jay Doughty here. I'm very fond of the 2023 Millennium Lancero's classic cream and cashew notes. I agree. There has not been a recent Davidoff release since then that even comes close to the earlier production.
Gizmo:I tried a recent Davidoff Maduro and found it almost entirely flavorless. Sadly, I did buy some of the new Aporro Dominicano in Corona Larga. I haven't cracked into them yet, but after listening to the podcast, I am regretting the purchase.
Bam Bam:No flavor, and that that is just That's quite the same.
Gizmo:Think about that. I think we rated that a 99, guys. Yeah. We loved that. Loved it.
Gizmo:Now again, I haven't reached for it in a long time. Certainly Not a cheap stick. What's that? Something $50 for the Yeah,
Pagoda:mean the ones we got were great, but clearly what we're hearing is that the recent production of it is not the same,
Bam Bam:which For is a huge
Rooster:$50 Yeah. Correct.
Gizmo:That's crazy. So here's another one. I'm not gonna go through every comment here. They're all very good, but I wanted to share this one as well. This one's from our friend, the cigar surgeon.
Gizmo:He's he says, I've been getting steady pushback on my stance about Davidoff for a few years now. Some things are subjective like flavor, but quality control is objective. And he's on developing palates. I talk about those guys a lot. Check them out on YouTube.
Gizmo:We have a David when we have a Davidoff review coming up, I think the def deficiency are especially highlighted through a blind review format. So those guys review blind. And apparently they have a Corona Largo review coming out and from the Porto De Minicano, it didn't go well. And the other thing I'll highlight too, we we talk about Halfwheel a lot. We love those guys.
Gizmo:Halfwheel reviewed the same cigar we did. They gave it a 74. Now, number one, I've never seen Halfwheel give a 74. Number two, their entire PCA coverage for weeks has been highlighted, labeled, like bannered videos on their videos promoting Porro Dominicana with that clip that I played in humor when we recorded that episode. Every single video all over it.
Gizmo:Every single article presented by and they gave it a 74. Wow. So cheers to them for being honest in face of their advertiser. But, I mean, when all of these folks are saying the same thing, there wasn't a single counterpoint to this argument there. Again, I don't understand.
Gizmo:How do they fix this?
Rooster:How do they fix it? They have to get blender with some authority, with some experience back in the fold and correct the blends. The blends are what they are. Mean, You've
Pagoda:got to
Rooster:tweak the blends like we talked about this.
Bam Bam:They have so much product that they've just released out in the marketplace, so they've saturated all of their distributors with a product that's subpar. How long is it
Rooster:going Yeah, there's nothing you can do about that.
Bam Bam:That's what I'm saying. You're bringing a new blender. That's going to take a year to two, three years, and then you have to produce more cigars. That's another year or two. Are you looking at five years before the next run of Davidoff's are gonna be decent?
Gizmo:But dude, if they keep going, the way they're doing, what's gonna be like in five years?
Bam Bam:Yeah, I know. I know.
Rooster:The company will be done.
Gizmo:You're telling me though that there is not that talented person in the Dominican Republic today looking for their big break. They can't find that person to bring them in and give them the the keys to the blending castle there? Mean, that's crazy.
Rooster:Bring back Eladio Diaz. Bring back Henrik Keller.
Bam Bam:But could this be the end of Davidoff if it takes them five years to produce products that actually are decent? What if if their sales drop incredibly low based on what they have out in the market now?
Rooster:At this rate, they will don't
Gizmo:think it's gonna be the end of it. Just think that they're losing their throne.
Bam Bam:It's gonna be painful for them.
Pagoda:Yeah, just think for Davidoff, obviously their strategy has been to hire some brilliant marketing people, and not to focus on the people that actually manufacture the product. And the marketing, you know, traditionally has been very good. I mean, outside of some of the silly videos and things we make fun of, like, you know, the depth that they go into on the flavor notes, the tasting notes, like, they deconstruct the cigar and have these infographics for each one. It's very, very well done. Usually, the packaging looks good.
Pagoda:But the problem is, if your product is in quality, then all of that really doesn't matter.
Rooster:That's exactly what I was going to ask you is, can you market the product in a way but you know that the product is not Like, the marketing is great, but the product has to be good. Only then the marketing works. Otherwise, people are not stupid. Gonna realize,
Pagoda:this is a repeat purchase product. The thing in fairness is it takes a while though for that to catch up. And that's why this has been going on for some time now, and it only seems that now this is starting to really come to a head. Because you know, for all the criticisms that we've had of Davidoff, most of these new releases, there is at least one, if not two, if not three, four, five guys in this room that we all go out and we buy and try them. Even though we've been frustrated because we are waiting for Davidoff's return to greatness.
Rooster:Yes.
Pagoda:It's like we have had in the past, in history, some really great experiences that we are hoping that that return is somewhere near. And the problem is, as we keep having more and more disappointing experiences over time, there does become a point where you lose the consumer. Of course. And we are pretty damn close to that. Because at this point now, we have been disappointed.
Pagoda:We talked about the recent chef's edition, the Puro Dominicano, there have been others in between that.
Gizmo:Look at the late hour Robusto. Wasn't That's what we changed. That's good. But it wasn't what we expected.
Bam Bam:And I'm personally I don't wanna go and buy the Millennium Pyramid. I don't want to go and buy it. I have a good amount left way Like old stock, yeah. Years ago. I'm kind of nervous about spending $37 on one cigar when I'm sure it's probably going to be different than what I'm used to getting.
Pagoda:So I'm just saying like in terms of like the real impact to their business and them like forcibly needing to do what is needed for their long term, like they're now finally starting to get there. Like this stuff takes time to catch up, and so I think you see by all that listener feedback, people are sitting there saying like, I used to love this marker. I used to love the product. I've now had too many disappointing experiences where Davidoff could come out with 10 new releases tomorrow, and the number of people that have had these experiences that are gonna go out and even try one of them, it's gonna be small. Yeah.
Pagoda:So they're gonna have to fix their their own problems internally, but this is not about the marketing anymore. Like, they have to, you know that worked when they had a really solid product. At this point, almost the marketing doesn't matter. People respect the brand and what it used to stand for. Someone's gotta come in there and turn around just the actual operation itself from quality control to blending to I mean, the fact that we've all known there's a problem as far as blending since they lost those big names.
Pagoda:The fact that people are talking about the cigar is not even burning. I mean, we're just talking about Combustion. Basics. Rolling a cigar by hand. If you can't even get that right, I mean, Jesus Christ,
Rooster:thank I had the Puro Dominikano yesterday. I must have lit it at least seven or eight times. Wow. The cigar had to be ashed, like the ash was just falling off. So that's a bad, It's very flame retardant.
Gizmo:Like they spray it with flame retardants.
Bam Bam:Look, they're gonna have to sell all their current stock at deep discount, recoup what they can, but they're not gonna do that. So they're gonna eat all those losses, and you can't turn
Pagoda:this No, current stock's not a problem for them.
Bam Bam:Well, what To else is keeping stock
Pagoda:be an authorized debit off retailer, number one, you're one of the only shows in town with that radius clause that they have Mhmm. And they have to take product to maintain that. Yeah. So once the product leaves their, you know, warehouse and it goes to the retailer, that's the retailer's job.
Gizmo:The are the ones that Yeah. Are gonna get
Bam Bam:See, that's awful. You're kind there
Gizmo:all caught between a rock I and a would bet too, for the retailers, they're stuck exactly
Bam Bam:Well, that's what I'm saying.
Gizmo:In between a rock and a hard place because I bet there are also advertising minimums, what they call MAP, minimum advertised price, on a product that you agree when you have a deal with a manufacturer. I used to work in the audio industry. You can't take as an official dealer of Davidoff, I bet you can't go and sell and advertise that you're selling the Corona Largo for $10
Bam Bam:Yeah. Right.
Gizmo:You can't because then it undercuts every other dealer.
Pagoda:And diminishes the brand.
Bam Bam:Correct. What happens when they can't sell the product because of how it's performing? Because of the quality of
Gizmo:the product. The retailers are going have to figure out a way.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Gizmo:Just like Habanos retailers figured out how to sell to the gray market.
Bam Bam:And they're in contracts, so annually, they have to replenish their entire stock. I'm not sure what the timeframe is.
Pagoda:The only problem, again, why I said these things just take time, and that's why these are long term challenges, it's like if retailers get stuck with enough product that they can't move over enough time, they're just gonna drop Davidoff.
Bam Bam:There you go. Exactly.
Pagoda:If they're gonna sit there and look at their books at the end of the year and say, half of our sales used to come from Davidoff. Probably by revenue, right, not by quantity because look at the price that these cigars go for. By revenue, and they're saying that now 10% of our sales are Davidoff, is it really worth it to invest all the money that they have to spend to take on all that product that's gonna take them two, three, four times the amount of time to move off the shelf as the other stuff that's cheaper.
Bam Bam:Now, that's interesting.
Gizmo:By the way, they also have to take when let's say they release Pro Dominicano, they have to take a certain number of stock of each of the
Bam Bam:SKUs. Sure.
Gizmo:They cannot be selective.
Bam Bam:Correct. That's correct.
Gizmo:As an authorized dealer, they want certain number of faces. It's not a discussion.
Bam Bam:Now if enough retailers drop that Davidoff line of products in their stores
Pagoda:They're done.
Bam Bam:Yeah, they're done. And let's say Davidoff's in process of retooling and they're coming out with great product that surpasses what they've released previous two. How do you convince
Gizmo:Well, that's what I was gonna
Bam Bam:come back?
Gizmo:Think about how I'll long tell you how. Think about how long Yeah. Now you're
Pagoda:in my line of work.
Gizmo:But think about how long it's taken for this, you know, since there's been a problem since they left, I don't know when that was, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. We're coming up on eight years since they left. Of course, there was a nice runway of product and blends since they left. So let's say we're talking two to three years of this starting to happen. Now we have the end users talking about it publicly.
Gizmo:Not just us, right? Not just media, but the end user is also discussing this. Think about how long that's gonna take for them to earn back that trust.
Bam Bam:That's what I'm saying.
Gizmo:They're gonna need to hire a senator to do this.
Pagoda:That's correct. Correct. It's marketing. Doing that. Oh, it is, but this is beyond marketing now.
Pagoda:This is corporate reputation management. They are going to have to find a way To admit? That's the operative piece. That's There where I was going with is no way out of a situation like this, and if you look historically, there's no brand that has ever shit the bed in a really serious way and gotten out of it by pretending it They never are going to have to, and it will be painful for them.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Pagoda:Because there's the ego of Davidoff, this premier brand, saying that lost our way. We're trying to figure out our new master blender. We've gone through presumably multiple people it seems like because there's no consistency that we're seeing out of the product. The janitor's rolling
Bam Bam:for credit.
Pagoda:Right. And he's tired. He is. Clearly there must be some challenges within their facilities from a rolling standpoint because everyone's talking about construction challenges. They're gonna have to admit to retailers and the consumer that they had some challenges, they're disappointed that they let their customers down, but they've now figured it out.
Pagoda:And they're gonna need to name a master blender, they're gonna need to say whatever production improvements have been made to ensure consistency. Admit to
Bam Bam:all their challenges that they had. Right? For sure.
Pagoda:And then they're gonna need to guarantee that they will never let that happen again. And the brands that do that, when you can admit you made such a significant mistake that you almost lost your business, right, because that's what's at stake for Davidoff at this point, you can't afford for that ever to happen again. You don't get a second chance. Right? Like, if you ever get to that point and you let that happen twice, you're done.
Pagoda:No one will ever give you a second opportunity there. And a brand though that's never made a mistake like that, oh, sure. They're just as ripe as Davidoff to fall into the exact same pitfall. So long term for Davidoff, if they're willing and able to admit what has happened and meaningfully solve for it, they not only have the potential to bring back customers, they have an opportunity to build even more trust than they have ever had.
Gizmo:By just being honest.
Bam Bam:Exactly. Humility goes a long way. Exactly.
Gizmo:Can I ask you, not specific to your work, but is there a decent case study company out there that can be referenced Yeah? Exxon did a
Bam Bam:good job
Senator:with this.
Pagoda:Oh, no. Exxon did not do a good job with that. No?
Bam Bam:Or the other oil company.
Pagoda:No. So BP
Bam Bam:There you go.
Pagoda:And it's not a secret, it was public, the firm that did all the work around this, and I was there at the time. BP with the oil spill, obviously, number one, they were drilling in The Gulf which the federal government asked them to do. Handed leases, begging oil and gas companies to drill that we needed oil. That wasn't illegal. I want to make sure that that's clear.
Pagoda:And a tragic accident happened. You know, the company lost the lives of some of its own people. There was no intent to do that.
Gizmo:For the listener, this is Deepwater Horizon, correct?
Pagoda:Correct. And they faced a situation where obviously, you know, that spill was so significant that the damages were so great, there was a real fear that BP's entire company would go under because they were facing billions and billions of dollars in cleanup response and recovery, claims for all the people in The Gulf that had been impacted by that, And the one thing that the company did that was the right thing morally to do, but honestly very stupid from a business perspective and a legal one, is that when there's an oil spill of any kind, there are liability caps that Congress set ages ago when it passed legislation regulating this. So whatever happens, you get fined basically per the number of millions of barrels of oil that is spilled, and they voluntarily waived the liability cap and said Wow. That they will pay whatever it takes to make every person whole that was actually impacted by this bill, even if it is beyond the liability cap. Now what a British owned company did not understand about The United States is that we live in the most litigious society that exists here, and so every plaintiff's lawyer was like, oh my goodness, this is my retirement plan.
Gizmo:Just hit the lottery.
Pagoda:Yes. So there were tens of billions of dollars in fraudulent lawsuits brought against BP or in fraudulent claims, I should say
Bam Bam:What a mess.
Pagoda:Where they were literally advertising The Gulf like, no proof required. Were you impacted by this bill? Call our law firm. And there are people that lived in Michigan saying that they had a fishery in The Gulf, and it was impacting
Gizmo:Are they still taking claims by the way?
Bam Bam:I tried to go.
Gizmo:Damn. Let's go.
Pagoda:It was insane. But all of that is to say that the opportunity that that company had was what a very large global PR firm that they worked with for decades that they stopped working with told them, which is the goal is to get people to stop talking about this as quickly as possible, the spill, and we can solve this in six to eight months. The successful strategy that they ultimately bought into, which my firm at the time had explained to them was, anyone that's telling you this is gonna be over in six to eight months, that's like Davidoff saying like, oh well, know, if we just name a new master blender tomorrow, it's all software, and Oh, no. In six months, no one's gonna be talking about these problems. It's not that simple.
Pagoda:And we had told them that this number one is gonna take five years minimum to recover reputation if you even are willing to do the things that it takes. Number two, your CEO is going to need to go out and publicly apologize and own what happened. Full stop. There's no brushing this aside, and that's when not a well equipped CEO at the time, that's why he was out shortly after a very stupid statement that he made, But Tony Hayward at least first went out and admitted, we're sorry. This was a tragic mistake.
Pagoda:You know, here are the steps that we're taking to to try and resolve this. And so that was really helpful of just like, you know, there's no pretending that what's happened is okay or is is in some way minimal. This is huge, the scale of what had happened. Like I said, an ill equipped person because he made a dumb comment, off the cuff. I want my no one wants their life back more than me, and it's like I mean, there are people that are dying and and, you know, finding my
Bam Bam:French chalet.
Pagoda:Yeah. I mean, just idiotic. So he was ousted as CEO, and then a new guy came in and did a much better job. But the the biggest insight, I will never forget during that, and this all this case that I'm telling you, this is taught even in in business schools today. We were doing market research at the time.
Pagoda:I remember a focus group in Alabama, and a woman who rightfully at the time hated BP. How could they do this? This is disgraceful, all this stuff. And she said, but I I will tell you, I trust this is after BP had plugged, you know, this bill, and the the response and recovery was nearing its end. And she goes, as much as I hate what they did, I will say, I trust them more than any other oil and gas company to make sure that something like this never happens again because they almost lost their entire business because of it, and they know they could never survive if it did again.
Pagoda:Yeah. And she goes in another company that's never been through something like this. Well, just like BP, they can afford to go through one major mistake like this, but no one can afford a second one
Gizmo:of these. That's smart insight.
Pagoda:Yeah. It was brilliant. And that's where now you look at a company like BP, and actually their biggest brand driver is safety, where that was their biggest weakness. And so that's where I just use the analogy like Davidoff's opportunity right now, they they used to be the pinnacle of quality.
Gizmo:The pinnacle. And let me just say with that statement, can you imagine five years ago us having this discussion about Davidoff? Absolutely. It's incomprehensible
Bam Bam:to me. Correct.
Gizmo:Where we were
Rooster:five years ago. That's correct.
Pagoda:Pinnacle of quality. And right now, that is their biggest weakness. People fear that the blends are inconsistent and not what they used to be, the construction is poor,
Senator:and
Pagoda:that all they care about is making money and marketing a shitty product. And so quality now is their biggest weakness, and so the only way out of that, they're going to need to acknowledge that they lost their way on quality, they're gonna need to take meaningful steps to address it, and in the long run, if they do those things and have actually meaningfully solved for the problems, they have the opportunity to, I mean, flourish. But it takes a long process, and it's a painful one because no business likes getting up there and admitting like, we really screwed this up.
Rooster:So can we file a class action lawsuit?
Bam Bam:They fucked up my Millennium Pyramids. I'm all screwed up.
Rooster:I got PTSD now.
Bam Bam:Was PTSD.
Gizmo:Correct. Alright, boys.
Bam Bam:So wait. Can we afford the invoice now? I don't think so.
Gizmo:That's why I'm trying to get out of it. That's correct. We've Let's move on. We've hit our retainer. Alright, boys.
Gizmo:We've come to the end of the Davidoff Grand Crew number five, and it is time to rate it before we move into the Cuban. Let's H Upmann Majestic. So send along your ratings, and we'll get into that. So while we're rating the rate, I wanna share one more comment unrelated here on the same thread, from El Nino. He says that story about you getting a new passport in less than a day is a prime example of my favorite thing about New Yorkers.
Gizmo:If you need something done, you get it done. May each and every one of you who read this find ultra gizmoed within yourself. So I like that comment. New Yorkers get it done. Have to make it happen.
Bam Bam:Alright. I sent your rating, and then I immediately changed it.
Rooster:Fine. Okay.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time now for the formal Don't
Bam Bam:say a word, senator.
Pagoda:From from an 11 to a 10.
Gizmo:Ali Davidoff Grand Cru number five. Rooster, you're up.
Rooster:So I am at an eight on this cigar. I was between a seven and eight. I mean, the biggest thing with this is obviously the size. I have not smoked many of these, the Grand Cru No. Five.
Rooster:My favorite is the Grand Cru No. Three, which unfortunately is discontinued, which is what a shame. But this cigar, the blend is good. The construction was very good. The flavor was excellent.
Rooster:It was creamy. It was a little nutty. You even have this cashew cream. There was a little saltiness. It's a great smoke, but it just leaves you wanting more.
Rooster:And at the price point that it is at right now, at $16.5 it does not make you even think about buying a box. So for that reason, I'm at an 8.
Gizmo:All right, Senator.
Pagoda:So I I have a different take. I was not left wanting more. I was very satisfied with what I got out of the cigar from a flavor standpoint and that being what I indexed, you know, highest on, just flavor being low.
Rooster:I just meant because of the price point, maybe it should be a little bit of a longer stick.
Pagoda:Gotcha. Right. Gotcha. So for me, I thought the blend was excellent. I thought it was really complex.
Pagoda:I mean, the nuttiness, the creaminess, some baking spice. There was like a kinda toasted, bready note in there with some saltiness. So I I thought the blend was really, really great. While it was on the milder side, it was still substantial. I think toward the end, it got actually closer to medium, which I liked.
Pagoda:It it progressed a bit over time. It didn't stay as mild as it started. The construction, like Rooster said, I thought was excellent. A nice even burn. The ash held on well.
Pagoda:I was able to smoke it all the way down to the nub, and it still looks in good shape structurally, and the flavor was really good down the stretch. My only complaint is naturally the price, and so that's what precluded it from a 10 because I actually don't see any flaws in the blend or the flavor profile, which is why I gave it the nine. But at $16 a stick, there's no way that I can say that, you know, what this delivers at that price point is perfection. It would make me go out and purchase this and regularly smoke it. It would not.
Pagoda:So I think for any listener, it is definitely a must try. It's an excellent you know, if you want a milder cigar to start your day or your afternoon, this definitely fits the bill. But is it a 10 where I would recommend a listener go out and load up on boxes of this? Not at $16 plus. So for that reason, I'm
Rooster:at a nine. Nine is excellent score.
Bam Bam:Wow. That's quite the score.
Gizmo:So I'm also at a nine. I'm the same spot. I mean, I was thinking, toying with the eight based on where would I put this. You know, the price is crazy. It's so small and diminutive.
Gizmo:But I agree with you. I think the blend is excellent. I was thinking, as we've been talking about Davidoff and all these other things, how could I what flaws can I find in the actual flavor blend of this cigar? Performance tonight, there wasn't one. So, I mean, based on price, I'm gonna knock at that point.
Gizmo:But it is a nine for me. I think it's an excellent cigar. I think for how small it was, it gave us like fifty minutes of smoke.
Rooster:Yeah, it's true.
Gizmo:And I thought all 50 were pretty damn good. So aside from the price, I don't know where it would slot for me. I think there's someone out there who, you know, maybe has a nice budget that can afford something like this, but has a short amount of time to smoke. I think this is an excellent cigar. I really enjoyed it.
Gizmo:I think this is what we love from Davidoff is this kind of experience. I wish we were having more of it recently. Hopefully, as we were talking about, they'll pick it back up, but I really like this cigar tonight, so for me it's a nine. Pagoda? Yeah.
Senator:It's an eight for me. The two things. You know, for a $16 cigar, you want it to light up well and start up well. For me, I had some lighting issues in the beginning. It felt very soft and, you know User error.
Senator:Yeah. But I wasn't even able to, you know, draw on the cigar. Right? Like, you know, so I wasn't getting any smoke
Pagoda:out Will you teach him how to draw rooster?
Senator:That's, you know, half
Gizmo:That's like a class of 6PM.
Senator:Half an inch in, which for this small dude
Bam Bam:For a is bonus, you could learn to play pinnacle. Pinochle.
Senator:For this really small cigar, if you're losing half of an inch, you know, it's costing you money. So meaning leaving that aside.
Rooster:Value guy.
Senator:Yeah. I think the price is obviously a little too high for this particular cigar, especially because we love the better coaster, which is less than half the price, I think. But overall, yes. The the other thing I do wanna say is, like, overall, I really enjoyed the flavor profile throughout except in the end. It did become a little, you know, a little bit more robust towards the end.
Senator:But I think I lost the pleasantness, which was in my palate earlier. So yeah, meaning over, I was just thinking about it, and I was debating between an eight or a nine, and considering the way it lit up in the beginning, the price, and what I'm experiencing in the last inch, it's not as pleasant for me suddenly. And you know, it's an eight for me.
Gizmo:No, Sounds like yours was Wow. Pretty poorly constructed, honestly. If you're having a bookend of unpleasantness when we're not That's having
Bam Bam:very unusual.
Rooster:Yeah. I kinda like the end of the cigar that it picked up
Gizmo:in Oh, yeah.
Senator:It picked up in strength, but you know, it's like for me, the pleasant flavor profile just got overwhelmed. Think it just took it away, and I wasn't enjoying it. Know, certain cigars when you get to the nub, you get some really good flavors as well, or it's maintaining a certain flavor profile, or it's becoming a little more deeper, richer. In this, I didn't find that. So, you know, I'm still smoking it.
Senator:I'm just really trying to debate that as well. But it's eight. Is
Gizmo:still Yeah.
Bam Bam:You're not at the end, actually. You got a half inch there to go.
Rooster:All right, Bam Bam, you're up.
Pagoda:I'm sorry, just go to shirt.
Bam Bam:Oh, where's the vacuum? You wore the wrong color today, bro.
Rooster:My girl has
Gizmo:a white polo on and there's ash all over the front of it.
Senator:Thanks. Summery.
Gizmo:Alright, Bam.
Bam Bam:I thought the end was absolutely delicious. So I agree with Rooster. It did leave me wanting more because of how much I really enjoyed the flavor. The first half inch I had a challenge with, but then it settled in. Think, Senator, you said a toasted bread.
Bam Bam:I kind of had like a toasted scone thing because I had sweetness, just a touch of it, all the way through to the end, and it got more a little richer, deeper, like a deep espresso with that toasted scone bread type thing. It was very, very good. It was delicious. I just think the price is is totally fucking unreasonable at almost $17. It's just out it's outrageous.
Bam Bam:For those reasons, I'm at an eight, but I was toying with a nine. And if this honestly, if this were half the price, I think there'd be a bunch of tens in this room. So I'm at a solid, solid eight.
Pagoda:So you took off two points for the price?
Bam Bam:Well, was probably gonna be at a nine, but if this was half price, Senator, I would pursue buying this. I just won't buy it.
Pagoda:Agree with you.
Gizmo:Yeah. If it was $8, I'd order a box today.
Bam Bam:I refuse to buy it because of what it costs. Because I'm not getting enough, and it's always gonna leave me wanting more.
Rooster:I would say buy this cigar if you like it. It's one of the creamiest smokes there is. Find it discount. If you can get it at a discount, maybe like $12.13 bucks, buy it now before they fuck it up.
Gizmo:And find Direct. Find a retailer who up the splend. Find a retailer who bought too much Porro Dominicano who needs some cash flow. Make them
Bam Bam:an offer.
Gizmo:Make them an offer.
Bam Bam:Now also, rating's gonna be quite nice based on everything we just discussed about Davidoff. How did they not mess this up?
Rooster:They will. Give them a chance. Okay. They will.
Gizmo:So boys, the formal lizard rating tonight on the Davidoff Grand Cru number five is an 8.4.
Bam Bam:That's nice.
Gizmo:So I'm not gonna go through all of the Davidoff cigars that we've done before. If you wanna see them, go to the Lounge Lizards website.
Bam Bam:Doing anymore ever again.
Gizmo:Go to the Lounge Lizard no. There's too many. Go to the Lounge Lizards website. Check out the ratings archive. I will compare it to one cigar that I think it's apropos to compare to.
Gizmo:Speaking of $8, we're gonna compare it to the Davidoff Winston Churchill Belly Cosa that we've been referencing tonight. We did that on episode 132. That cigar scored a perfect 10. So that is a cigar that still makes a regular appearance in most of our rotations, if not all. And like you said, I think if this cigar was $8
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:It would be competing with that cigar. It's very different in flavor, but It is. Provides a great amount of excellence alongside it. But that cigar certainly from a price standpoint takes the cake if you're looking for a small dab it off.
Bam Bam:And it it paired beautifully with what we were drinking tonight.
Gizmo:And now boys, it's time to go into the second cigar of our Short Smoke Special tonight. We have the Cuban h Upmann, and it's called the Majestic. New cigar for most of us in the room here tonight, I think. It's a 40 ring gauge cigar by five and one half inches long. And, Bam, you really like this cigar.
Gizmo:You brought this in tonight.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I like it. It's it's definitely different from every other up in that you've had. There's a I think you'll get a touch of sweetness, a little molasses type thing happening, cedar. It's a and nutty.
Bam Bam:It's a little nutty. It's interesting.
Gizmo:Nice. Yeah. Looking forward to it. Let's cut this thing, boys. See what we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper, of course.
Gizmo:Cigar has an interesting story. Looking forward to talking about it a little bit. Certainly much less diminutive in the hand than the Davidoff we just smoked.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Gizmo:At five and a half inches, this feels almost like it's double the size of that one. Correct.
Bam Bam:I haven't had this in a very, very long time. About nine months at
Gizmo:least. I like this size. Cold draw is nice. Size is Yeah. Reminds me of the same size as the Super Parties.
Pagoda:Parties. Exactly.
Gizmo:Shout out John. John Gibson. God bless John.
Rooster:Right.
Pagoda:Lizard John.
Gizmo:I'm getting a grassy Cedar maybe. Earthy thing.
Rooster:Not much. Yeah. Grassy.
Gizmo:I agree with that. Alright, boys. Let's get on with it. Let's light this thing. The h up in Majestic from Cuba.
Gizmo:And, again, it's a 40 ring gauge cigar by five and one half inches long. Its factory name is the cremice, and the box code on this is e p o, May 22. So that's coming out of, surprisingly, the Hupmann factory.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I was surprised see I thought it was a provincial for sure.
Gizmo:For a cigar like this that I have never seen anyone smoke ever. Yep. Aside from you.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:I like it on the light.
Bam Bam:It's very good.
Senator:Great
Bam Bam:start. It's unusual, isn't it, for an Upmann?
Gizmo:I'm sitting here thinking as I'm saying EPO May 22, I'm thinking, this is a fresh cigar. No, it's got four years on it. That's a pretty significant amount of time.
Bam Bam:If I remember correctly, I paid probably $12 a stick for this at the time.
Gizmo:So right now, I think these are somewhere between 13 and 15 ish.
Bam Bam:Oh, so it hasn't gone up much.
Gizmo:Yeah. Well, think from a demand standpoint or Yeah. Awareness I don't even know how often they roll these things. But it's cool to have a new Upmann in our hand tonight that most of us haven't had.
Rooster:It's a beautiful looking cigar.
Bam Bam:Retro Hills delicious.
Rooster:It's very pretty. I mean, the wrapper is such a dark, deep, chocolatey red. It's like a dark, reddish. Really nice.
Bam Bam:And a rich flavor, no?
Senator:Pretty much.
Bam Bam:Think the Davidoff first was a good call.
Gizmo:What I like about the Davidoff start, it was a little creamier, maybe a little sweeter than this. I think this is a nice follow-up to that.
Pagoda:So I'm getting walnut. Yeah. And I don't really like walnut, but this is very good.
Gizmo:This is a good cigar.
Pagoda:There's a sweetness that is there with the walnut, and walnut can be too dry for me. It's molasses, I think. Is really good.
Rooster:I think it's also like baking spices coming through with that nuttiness, which is a nice complement.
Bam Bam:That Upmann a little bit of that DNA, maybe.
Rooster:I think it does have Upmann DNA, I would say. I think so.
Bam Bam:Aroma's nice. I'm just glad we have a Cuban on the recording. Me too.
Gizmo:Little bit of a change of pace. We've been doing every other five weeks. And don't forget, last week, we did the Vegas, Romania, Unicos, which was a stinker. That's why chef's not here. He's still upset.
Gizmo:Yeah. He's traumatized.
Bam Bam:I think he is. He left
Gizmo:he right after He left right after recording. Yeah.
Pagoda:He literally he literally said, that cigar pissed me off. I'm going home.
Gizmo:He just walked out. I gotta go home make some tacos.
Bam Bam:He's a perfectionist.
Pagoda:Is nice. Smell the bird line, you get a ton of baking spice that
Gizmo:Oh, yeah.
Pagoda:Brewster was talking about.
Bam Bam:It's more nutmeg than cinnamon for me.
Senator:Pagoda, do think? I'm getting a little bit of, like, the sweetness, like a cookie, like, you know how you call it the graham cracker
Rooster:Tea kind of cookies make
Senator:Yeah. It's, I'm definitely getting that. Sweeter and nice. I'm really enjoying it.
Rooster:Parley cookies?
Senator:Yeah, parley. They're so good. They kind of, I'll have to get them so that everyone tries It's it's very, very pleasant.
Bam Bam:Definitely unusual.
Senator:I'm thinking this is sweeter than the other one, for sure, for me. I don't agree with that. For me.
Pagoda:But there's plenty of sweetness.
Gizmo:I
Pagoda:don't think this is particularly dry.
Gizmo:I'm getting like a salty, earthy thing. I'm not getting a ton of what I would call sweetness.
Bam Bam:Not even a in the background. Really.
Gizmo:It's mainly grassy and earthy for me.
Senator:What are
Bam Bam:you getting on the retro? Because I'm getting that Grand Crackery.
Pagoda:I'm not getting any of that.
Bam Bam:No, same. Try the retro. Yeah?
Gizmo:Retro's nicer.
Bam Bam:It's very nice.
Gizmo:Yeah. Mean, honestly, love the regular draw. I shouldn't say nicer.
Bam Bam:But the traditional draw is actually where I'm getting most of my pleasantness from this thing.
Gizmo:I'm really enjoying it, but it's not a sweet cigar for me.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Gizmo:But I like it.
Bam Bam:I don't ever see these come up anywhere. Never.
Gizmo:Even mentioned. Honestly, I was looking all over the Internet to find a price. It was actually quite a struggle. Yeah. But what's interesting, you know, I again, I I you know, these aren't the more popular H.
Gizmo:Upmann cigars out there. I'd argue I'm actually surprised that they're still in regular production, but they've been in production since before 1960. And I found this interesting, until 2002, they were machine made. So this was one of the cigars that Habanos in 2002, you know, when they stopped making machine made cigars for the regular Habanos production to be exported to the world, this was one of those that was switched to handmade production.
Bam Bam:There's a few of those Yeah. There's quite
Gizmo:a few.
Rooster:Most of
Gizmo:them are these small sizes.
Bam Bam:Right.
Gizmo:They also came in cellophane until that time, but shout out Cupid Cigar website, of course, for all this info. But they now come only in dress boxes of 25 cigars.
Pagoda:Yep. I'm thrilled.
Gizmo:Yeah. This is The
Pagoda:flavor is outstanding. Yeah. There's even like a little bit of creaminess. Like, you can taste that the tobacco's aged. The smoke output is really good.
Pagoda:I'm I'm loving this.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Great dimension as well.
Gizmo:How's it pairing for you? Oh, very getting going with the Johnnie Walker?
Bam Bam:I like it.
Gizmo:I do too. I think this was a great pairing for this episode tonight.
Bam Bam:Honestly, I'm loving this spirit. It's shocking. I'm not a fan of Johnnie Walker. I just don't like the idea of a blended spirit, but this is really quite smooth, delicious, and what I would love to try this spirit with is a D4 because of that touch of cinnamon finish. I'd love to see what that's like.
Pagoda:It's funny to me that with Johnnie Walker, and I don't think they make this particularly clear, some of their expressions are much pettier and others are not and are much sweeter, but there's like no clear way to know. I mean, the 12 is definitely peaty. The gold we did is not peaty. This 18 is not peaty, yet Johnnie Walker Blue is much peatier than this. Yeah.
Pagoda:So like there's really no like way to even tell unless you try them. Have you had the Blue Ghost? Yeah. Actually, sorry. Sorry.
Senator:Is not peaty.
Pagoda:No. I thought that was.
Bam Bam:I remember it not being peaty, but the traditional blue label is a little peatier than the ghost.
Pagoda:What is this weird blue label, like, call it the New York edition?
Senator:Oh, that I don't know. I haven't tried that.
Pagoda:Because I had that and it was very peaty.
Bam Bam:Really?
Rooster:Is that the Knicks edition?
Bam Bam:How many blue editions do they need?
Pagoda:I mean, actually, Johnnie is very Davidoff like in their marketing.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Very.
Gizmo:And McCallan right now is too.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Pagoda:I I wouldn't put McCallan
Gizmo:in that class. Dude, when you I mean, Johnnie have Walker. They had 17 rare rare finds. Time out. Out.
Gizmo:They have one for every astrological sign every season.
Pagoda:Alright. That's fair.
Bam Bam:Calm down, Eliav. Calm down. Eliav. Eliav. Eliav.
Bam Bam:With the hands.
Pagoda:I mean, Johnnie Walker had a Game of Thrones edition. Like, that's how
Gizmo:MacCallon, can get like a Leo edition or the Gemini or something. Like, There's a lot of Macallan out there. To the point that I feel like when you look at the shelf at the selection of Total Wine, the classics, the twelve, fifteen, 18, like, you can't even find them. It's covered in special editions.
Bam Bam:So I was in a liquor store today looking for the fifteen year, and a lot of the old boxes are still They still have a pretty decent amount of the old, the blue box, the black box. They have a good number of that.
Gizmo:Tells me the price is too high. They're not moving them. Yeah. And I think that's across the entire line from Macaoan as we discussed earlier. That's right.
Bam Bam:Rooster, what do you think?
Rooster:This is very good. I think the age up in 50. I had one like the I the Yeah, the Mac 50. Didn't like it. This blows it away.
Rooster:This has way more flavor than that does.
Bam Bam:Well, it's always been a light cigar.
Gizmo:I've never loved the mag 50. No.
Bam Bam:It's too light. For its size, it's shockingly mild.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. It lacks flavor. Like, it doesn't have, like I mean, this this thing is it's phenomenal, I think.
Gizmo:For listeners out there, by the way, the mag 50, of course, was the original BAM BAM accountability hour Uh-huh. Cigar. Uh-huh. We recorded next door, you remember. No.
Gizmo:I don't remember. We recorded over there.
Bam Bam:I have no idea what you're talking about.
Gizmo:So if you enjoyed the North Korean accountability, it all started a long time ago in the H. Upmann Majestic 50 episode.
Rooster:That's kinda why I brought it up.
Bam Bam:I get I'm accountable for the way I do my hair.
Rooster:Your hair looks great.
Bam Bam:Alright? My shoes. Whatever. I'm always gonna be accountable.
Senator:I'm just surprised you're not wearing a collared shirt today.
Bam Bam:I considered it, but it's way too hot
Rooster:out. At the driving range?
Bam Bam:I know.
Gizmo:Right? Dude, this cigar is good, man. Yeah. I'm actually mad at myself that I don't have 10 boxes of these in my
Bam Bam:10 of them? Tower.
Senator:Yeah. There's 10 cigars. Other 10 boxes.
Gizmo:No. 10 boxes.
Bam Bam:If we can find these for the price that you noted, we should pursue them. But I
Gizmo:mean, know, of course, what I'm saying is, you know, we bought all our other stuff. These would have probably been $67 cigars. Yeah.
Rooster:You know? Meanwhile, we could just split these. We could. Yeah. What if we do that tonight?
Rooster:How many would you like, Pagoda?
Bam Bam:Listen. A crime is about to be committed.
Senator:It should be close your eyes and pick as many as
Gizmo:you can.
Bam Bam:Right. Just reach in there like a goody bag.
Rooster:Forget the Fundy dinner.
Bam Bam:Know, the only reason why I bought these is because I thought they were just unusual and different. And honestly, the time, this is kind of on the tail end of like the Cuban cigar purchases I was doing. I said, Sure, let me just buy it and have it. I wasn't expecting anything.
Rooster:Where'd you find them?
Bam Bam:Through your buddy.
Gizmo:Oh, yeah. That's Yeah. California guy? Yeah. California.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Senator:Yeah. Well, I towed in his tower.
Bam Bam:I don't think he would ever let me in his house unsupervised. Okay. No.
Gizmo:I trust you.
Bam Bam:I know.
Senator:I think when are you having spring cleaning, please? It's good bit an extra I trust
Gizmo:you in some ways, not as others. Correct. Alright, boys. Here's a good email that I wanted to share with you guys. This one's from our friend Lizard Abe, and the subject is box codes.
Gizmo:He says, hey, Lizards. I'm really enjoying the Bon Roberts linea d number six that I won as lizard of the week a while back. Thanks again. I have a question for you. I don't know much about Cupid cigars, but when you talk about them like we did tonight, you often mention the box codes.
Gizmo:It sounds like they mark the date and location of production, which certainly comes in handy because there are so many fakes out there. I'm wondering why new worlds don't have them. Obviously, there's not the same issues with fakes, but wouldn't it be useful to at least know the date of production, especially when it comes to aging? I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks again, Lizard Abe.
Rooster:Some new worlds do. Yeah. They do put them.
Gizmo:Yeah. Some some do. Mean box codes? No. Well, they have dates.
Gizmo:They have dates. Dates. Dates. Yeah.
Pagoda:But not box codes.
Rooster:But don't forget. Because it's same fact.
Pagoda:Yeah, this the same They have their own.
Gizmo:But like Padron doesn't stamp the boxes, but there's a little white piece of paper in every Padron box. And you know what I do is I take that little white piece of paper out. Like if I have a stack of Exclusivo boxes, I'll take the white piece of paper out, I'll tape it on the front so I could see which box is the oldest, and I'll smoke that one first. So I'm always conscious of trying to smoke the older of my
Senator:sorry, you're very organized.
Bam Bam:I think an industry standard should be that every maker puts a stamp of date on the back of it. Just put a date. It makes it easier for us to kind of manage our inventory. That'd be great.
Gizmo:Yeah. Mean, especially for the stuff that folks are trying to To age. Smoke daily or age, if that's the case. Yeah. Do you do any of that like I'm talking about with Padron, or do you just keep it organized in the order in which you purchase
Pagoda:it? That's the thing. It's it's based on how I purchase it. So, like, my oldest stuff is in Tupperware, then I move that into my tower, and then new stuff goes into Tupperware. So I just do it.
Pagoda:Same.
Rooster:So the boxes do come in Padron boxes come in cellophane. Mhmm. Right? So, I mean, you know which one is older.
Gizmo:You can also Sharpie on the cellophane too I if you wanted
Bam Bam:take my cellophane off the moment I get it.
Gizmo:I do too. I take my cellophane off, take that white piece of paper out, tape it on the front of the box.
Bam Bam:That's smart.
Gizmo:I do it every time. And you know what's funny too is even for how organized I try to be when I'm ripping through my Tupperware, sometimes I'll find that the older box is on the top, the newer box is on the I gotta keep myself calibrated with that. Yeah. So I'm constantly pulling the oldest box. But the other thing here, Lizard Abe, that's important, I mean, Cuban cigars have always pretty much had a date stamp on them.
Gizmo:I think it's part of their charm, and I think it's part of what makes them interesting and unique to collect. Obviously, they're not fermented.
Pagoda:That's what was going to say.
Gizmo:Mean, to be the same,
Pagoda:I don't think it's just like a novelty or part of some charm. I mean, they don't age them like they do New World cigars, so you need that to know when that is optimally smoking. That's right. Don't need that on a Padron box because they've already been aged, the 64 line, for four years. They're ready to smoke as soon as you get them.
Senator:That's true.
Gizmo:And it's not going to prevent you from buying or not buying fakes because fake ones will have box codes as well. Yeah, the only thing that's nice about the box codes with fakes is you can kind of discern if the stamp is correct, the font, the colors, etcetera. It is another tool to help you discern if it's fakes. But again, going back to Cuban cigars and fake Cuban cigars, the best way to avoid fake Cuban cigars is to know who you're buying from and to know that you're buying legitimate cigars from that person. If you're buying from random folks on the internet or random sites, nine times out of 10 you're going be buying fakes.
Gizmo:Yeah. I mean, especially these days. It's just impossible to get Cubans right now in The US.
Bam Bam:I firmly believe that there's merit in aging in new worlds, especially Padron and Davidoff. I have a buddy of mine. Call him Lizard Charlie. I've had very old Padrons that are five, six years old that have been incredibly delicious.
Pagoda:Is this like the 18 year old kid? His dad.
Bam Bam:Oh, okay. Yeah, that's Lizard Hollis, yes. Who actually has got an incredible story happening. The kid's blessed. He's in a great position.
Bam Bam:He got an internship at Placencia. Nice. Wow. He's now living in Miami. He came back up for a week, took a job down there.
Bam Bam:He's interning
Pagoda:at a cigar manufacturer.
Gizmo:Yeah,
Bam Bam:is I love this wild. They created the job for him. Wild. It's really
Gizmo:something Can we say that's the Bam Bam influence? You're a global insider?
Bam Bam:I don't know. But I'm really happy for him. But his dad, Lizard Charlie, the guy buys boxes and boxes of Padrons and Davidoff's and just puts them away. For years and years and years doesn't touch them and just smokes the new stuff. He's not a Cuban cigar purchaser, but he's got some Cubans, not a lot.
Bam Bam:The older Padron's that I've had and the Davidoff's that he's had for over five years plus are incredible.
Rooster:Like what? Like the thousand series?
Bam Bam:I've had a seven year old thousand series, the larger format, that A shape that they make. I don't know the name of it. It was incredibly smooth, very complex. I think there's a ton of merit to aging. Well we've had senators coming like four
Senator:or year
Bam Bam:old idiots.
Gizmo:It's kind of an underground thing with especially your with the thousand series. Mean you age them out four, five, six, seven years, you're gonna get It's incredibly incredibly smooth experience.
Bam Bam:And I would debate. If you don't have Cubans in your repertoire, in your armor, and you can only access Padrons and Davidoff's or any other new world that you like, if you put away, experiment with them, it'll give you a great high quality experience with your cigars that you won't get out of the store.
Pagoda:I'll just say, little tip on the Padron aging. There's a lot out there where people say, oh, know, age is a thousand series. It smokes like the 64 line, all that. I have not had that experience.
Gizmo:I don't think they do.
Pagoda:I think aging the 64 line takes an already great cigar and just makes
Rooster:it greater.
Pagoda:Outrageous. Mhmm. And I think the thousand series, it makes it better, but I don't think it like
Bam Bam:You have to try one
Pagoda:for one huge I I literally I have. I've been smoking through a box of the 2,000 series in Maduro Mhmm. That I bought like five years ago.
Bam Bam:And we like that cigar.
Pagoda:And it they're good.
Gizmo:But they're not 60 fours.
Pagoda:But they're not 64s.
Gizmo:Oh, so
Senator:they don't grow up to be a 64.
Gizmo:No. They grow up to be really
Bam Bam:They're nice.
Gizmo:An elegant, mature experience, but it's not as refined as the 64.
Pagoda:Yeah. And then that's why I'm saying, you know, I used to it wasn't until recently, like probably early this year, that now I have finally run out of all exclusivos with Double two bands. Exactly. Yeah. And that was because I had bought just so many years ago that I aged them even longer and would smoke them.
Pagoda:And I'd handle explacebos, and a few guys would be like, why do your explacebos always taste better than the ones I have? And I'm like, well, I've just aged them. That's all. I've just sat on them for years. And like those exoscevos, like, I'm telling you, man
Bam Bam:Dude.
Pagoda:And especially the eightieth that we all did Dude. When my kid was born. I mean, it just takes a great cigar and makes it mind blowing.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. A lot of merit.
Gizmo:I I also wanna shout out Padron again in, you know, in this conversation. We had that 2,000 natural at PCA that was handed out when they presented the hand rolled first part of the documentary. We watched that. That cigar was like eating like a Milky Way chocolate bar. Yeah.
Gizmo:It was phenomenal.
Pagoda:At a fraction of the price of that Davidoff we just smoked.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Pagoda:Yeah. Because I would have that in the morning or the afternoon, that cigar. It was so
Bam Bam:smooth
Pagoda:and 100%.
Rooster:Was fresh. Yeah.
Gizmo:It was handed out by them.
Pagoda:Yeah. They weren't even planning to hand out cigars. They didn't realize that this was all happening. Yeah.
Gizmo:George George told us that he had to, like, fly with retailer. Oh, that's right.
Pagoda:Yeah. He had to it's not even from his factory. Like, it was a retailer. He had to ask, like, I need I need a a number of boxes for to hand out at this
Bam Bam:I'll buy him back at cost.
Gizmo:I guess when George Padron calls, you say yes.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Pagoda:But that's where, like, they weren't special boxes of any kind. He just got them from a retailer, and they were spectacular. Yeah.
Rooster:Excellent. And it was natural, not
Pagoda:the I was shocked.
Bam Bam:So good.
Gizmo:So I think, you know, as far as Lizards Abe's question, if you're concerned about dates of of your boxes to keep them organized or to age or otherwise, you know, find a system in which you mark the date that you purchased them. Know what the manufacturer's doing with that tobacco before it comes to you if they're disclosing that. Like we're saying, Padron sixty four is four years, '26 is five years. Certainly, the others are more than that. Other manufacturers disclose similar information.
Gizmo:So use that, mark it on the cellophane or put a little sticker or some sort of label on the box and keep yourself organized. But the Cuban cigar world is just different because you you can't go off of, you know, getting a fresh box from a distributor or retailer and assuming things about it because you just there's too many variables with Cuban cigars.
Pagoda:I'm sorry. This cigar is friggin' awesome. It's awesome. I so happy right now.
Bam Bam:Let ask getting you a question. Yep. Doesn't it smoke like a it's almost like a new world, a hybrid kind of an experience
Pagoda:for me. I don't think so.
Rooster:It's got Upmann DNA.
Pagoda:It is Upmann DNA, but I just got like a blast of baking spice that very, very much reminded me of an HD four, like the cinnamon that you get. I'm so happy with this right now.
Gizmo:Are you
Rooster:sure it's not a LUBT 14?
Bam Bam:No. Poopa's got the stock on those. But I'm getting you know, I'm there's a reminiscent experience for with the trinity Robusto that I'm getting here a little bit.
Pagoda:I'm also right now getting sweet and salty. Just killer.
Rooster:It's also like a hint of cocoa almost. Touch.
Bam Bam:More espresso for me.
Rooster:Not like you said earlier.
Bam Bam:Not mag on the aroma.
Gizmo:It's a nice smoke, man.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Surprising, right?
Gizmo:So is this the only box you have?
Rooster:Yeah. Are you sure?
Pagoda:Yeah. Check. I wish we knew about these years ago. Absolutely.
Gizmo:Wish we had I would have bought 10 boxes and there were six
Bam Bam:or I'm holding out again.
Pagoda:Thanks, Pam.
Rooster:I need to see the Excel sheet again.
Gizmo:Yeah. I want I wanna do a FaceTime with you tomorrow.
Bam Bam:I'm sure you do.
Rooster:I bet you do. And one of the Tupperwares.
Pagoda:I don't. But you haven't gushed about this cigar.
Bam Bam:I've only had a few. I gave a few away too. I've only had two out of the box and I gave two or three away. And the last one I had was nine months ago. It was good.
Rooster:It's not good. It's really good. Yeah. It's excellent.
Bam Bam:I'm glad to hear it.
Senator:So what are you going to do? Aren't you moving out of the house for a bit?
Bam Bam:Am. It's a big fucking problem.
Senator:So where are you going to be storing the cigars?
Bam Bam:I'm going to so I'm having to acquiesce and move into my brother's basement. Listen. And I'm bringing my office down there, the printer, the machines, the computers and all that, and my tower and all the Tupperware.
Rooster:Why don't you move into Pagoda's basement?
Bam Bam:It's untenable. It is untenable.
Senator:No. No. No. You know, you
Bam Bam:you Imagine if Pagoda and I live together. That would be animal I'll be a different It would be animal house.
Senator:I'll I'll be under training. You know, I'll be like an intern at Precencia.
Bam Bam:I'll put you on a different type of training,
Senator:my friend. I'll graduate at somebody else.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You're gonna graduate with ill gotten gains, my friend. Gonna be
Gizmo:some shit happening there. So you're moving where now?
Bam Bam:My brother's place. Not far from here.
Senator:Wow. Yeah. But more than happy to store your cigars for you, just so far.
Gizmo:Sure. Just the cigars.
Bam Bam:I live where my cigars are. So if I'm gonna keep them at your place, I'm living in your basement.
Senator:You're welcome. I would like to do that.
Gizmo:So boys, I I wanted to ask you guys about this. I think this is a great time to discuss this. We teed it up last week. So we're smoking a Cuban now. We just smoked a New World cigar.
Gizmo:Obviously, our rotations and those things have changed pretty dramatically over the last few years. So in advance of this, I put up a thread on FOH where I was asking folks, and I want to ask you this, about the non Cuban cigars that have now kind of theoretically replaced your former heavy rotation Cuban cigars. Okay? So the whole premise of this was kind of thinking about how you slot your day or your week or your month or whatever, thinking about the Cuban cigars that used to sit there and thinking about the New World cigars or the non Cuban cigars that live there now. So I'll give you a few examples.
Gizmo:So first of the day for me used to be an HUP and Magnum 46 or a Punch Punch, as an example. It's been replaced by the Aladino eighty fifth anniversary in Robusto. A second of the day, a Ras or a Cohiba Cigar five, replaced by the Bon Roberts Dahlia. I called it the Hall of Famer third of the day, the Partagas d four, Monte Cristo number two, replaced by the Robusto Trinity. Know, I I and I came up with labels for these that don't have to be, you know, carried through everybody.
Gizmo:And this one I called the big meal follow-up. The Partagas Lusitania, the August or the Sir Winston, now replaced by the Padron eighty years Maduro, Bon Roberts 01/2009, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So as you think about the cigars that used to be heavy rotation Cubans for you, What are the cigars that have replaced those in your rotation, your slots, the way you think about it, etcetera? How has your mentality changed and what has replaced what? I know it's a tough question.
Bam Bam:I don't think it's a tough it's gonna be a very simple answer for me. I can't pinpoint what a Trinity Robusto is like. It's similar to several different Cuban cigars for me. So I think there's kind of an overlap in certain new worlds that overlap certain Cuban cigars. That's for me, because I get reminiscent notes in the Trinity Robusto that I get in several different Cubans.
Gizmo:Let me just say though.
Bam Bam:For me. That's me.
Gizmo:But let me just say though, I'm not saying that an Aladino eighty fifth tastes like a Magnum 46 or a Punch Punch. I'm not saying that Cohiba Robusto tastes like a stoic equanimity. I'm just saying, in those slots, the way things have changed
Pagoda:I think that's
Gizmo:a more not
Pagoda:flavor thing. Think that's a more fun exercise, though, because
Bam Bam:That's what I'm thinking.
Pagoda:I mean, I'm sorry. I'm not just replacing random cigars with other cigars that are nothing like them. Or if I can't find anything remotely similar, then I'm gonna need to keep smoking that Cuban cigar. The reason that I have replaced many of them is I have found things that have had some similar elements
Bam Bam:Well, yeah.
Pagoda:That remind me in some way of that cigar. It's never one for one.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Pagoda:That's what I'm something in it, but but but there is something. Yeah. So, like, for me, it's not like like he started by saying the mag 46 with Aladino eighty fifth. Those are nothing at all like
Bam Bam:you do.
Gizmo:But but
Pagoda:I think it's a more interesting exercise to say, like, what have you found that is actually
Bam Bam:close
Pagoda:somewhat reminiscent of that mag 46 where you don't need it? Because I don't think it's good enough to just say like, well, the eighty fifth is great, so I no longer need a mag 46. If you can't find anything remotely similar to it, you're gonna still crave
Gizmo:But a mag 40 for me, in that first slot, the Aladino eighty fifth sets up my day very similarly to how the mag 46 or the punch punch do. They get me going.
Bam Bam:That's what I'm saying. There's an overlap in experience.
Senator:Don't
Gizmo:It's an experience thing for me, That's not a flavor my point.
Bam Bam:Well, I think it's a flavor thing.
Pagoda:I can't relate to that. That's fine. But odd. And and
Gizmo:a lot of and a lot of No. I don't even
Pagoda:agree with love a mag 46. How can you not then be seeking that flavor profile?
Bam Bam:It's gotta be the flavor, bro. There's gotta be a flavor.
Rooster:Look. There's nothing really that replicates that Cuban flavor.
Gizmo:Of course.
Rooster:It is what it is, But we can get close to it.
Bam Bam:And that's what I'm saying.
Rooster:Like, Honduran tobaccos in general kind of give you that Cuban experience, and sometimes the new worlds are actually better than the Cuban experience.
Gizmo:Let's move in that direction. Give me some examples that have changed for you.
Rooster:I'll give you an example. We love the Aladinos. We love the aging rooms.
Bam Bam:Trinity Robusto.
Rooster:Trinity Robusto, the Dahlias. I the Dahlias is
Bam Bam:I had one of those two nights ago.
Pagoda:It was one is answering this the way I'm
Gizmo:trying to get a sense. I need you to answer the question.
Pagoda:I'm saying that, to me, it is a useless exercise. We all obviously are smoking New World cigars in favor of Cuban cigars. So, like, there's no reason for us to sit here and name all the New Worlds that we smoke
Gizmo:and all the time we're not.
Pagoda:What I'm suggesting is to pinpoint Cuban cigars that used to be part of our daily rotation, and what specific New World cigar
Gizmo:that you
Pagoda:have found that has something similar to it that you no longer feel you need that Cuban cigar?
Gizmo:Yes. And that's what I want the answer to.
Bam Bam:Well, look, if you if you wanna be specific, that dahlias for me is very Monty two like, but it's also got hints of the Upmann 46.
Gizmo:I think it has signal of five. Think it has signal
Pagoda:of five, Mohan. It could be. I'll let him go. I have a very different
Senator:I don't agree with
Bam Bam:Damanti comparison. I don't agree with Damanti too at all. And the Trinity Robusto for me, there's a hint there's hints of QD and punch punch for me.
Rooster:For me, it's the QD being replaced by the dahlia. It's kind of like if I I don't miss to smoke, I would smoke the dahlia instead. Another one I'm thinking about is maybe the RAS, and I would smoke the Trinity Robusto in replacement of the RAS. Those two really come in, you know, come
Gizmo:in play. Have a very clear one in this exercise for me, the Partagas Lusitania replaced by the Bonnge Lizards one zero nine. I think that to me is
Bam Bam:That's a good one too.
Gizmo:The even the most easy, this one replaced that based Good the call it. Premise of For me, the dahlia replacing the Cohiba Siglo five, not only in shape, but in what I love from that Siglo five.
Bam Bam:I think there's more flavor in the dahlia than
Gizmo:that. No, I agree, but it does have some of those things that I craved in that, and it expanded on it.
Pagoda:Yeah. So I I agree a 100% with that. The dahlia to me, the closest Cuban analog is the Cohiba Ciglo five. Yep. There are notes and elements that I get in that cigar.
Pagoda:It's similarly shaped. It definitely reminds me in some ways of that cigar. So for me, that replaces that.
Bam Bam:Honestly, for me, the Monty two is a replacement for that guy.
Senator:I don't
Pagoda:think for me. I can't go there.
Gizmo:I would
Pagoda:but I what I would say for me actually
Bam Bam:The shape is irregardless.
Pagoda:For me actually, what's been a Monty two replacement is the aging room concerto.
Gizmo:I agree with
Pagoda:you. That is milk There's a saltiness about it. Those are Monty two notes. That for me has totally knocked
Gizmo:out. And what's funny, when I want the twang, that's when I go for the Monty two. When I'm, like, craving that kind of funk to it, I'll go to the Monty two. But, man, if I want that chocolatey thing, I'm going to the concerto.
Rooster:Yeah. You know, even the Trinidad Asperto number three, was it? Mhmm.
Bam Bam:Like what? That's like
Rooster:a to me, like a more like a Monty two. Really? What? Maybe a maybe hints of Monty two.
Senator:You know what I would that
Bam Bam:for me, it's more reminiscent of the Maduro number one by Particus.
Pagoda:That's for me a more a close-up of cigar. Full cigar. That's more like a
Rooster:Madron. But more sweeter, right? The Trinidad is a little bit
Gizmo:more sweeter.
Bam Bam:A touch sweeter than that. Also for me, the Sonata, for me, I get reminiscent experience in the QD54 for me.
Gizmo:What's in your d four slot right
Pagoda:now, sir? Hang on.
Gizmo:I just
Pagoda:wanna go through my whole list because I don't know. Some of these I agree with, some of these I vehemently disagree with. Does anybody else get Monty two notes out of the Sonata?
Bam Bam:No. I didn't say
Gizmo:that. Just chocolate.
Bam Bam:Monty two and the QD-fifty
Pagoda:notes in sorry, sorry, QD-fifty four notes in the Sonata?
Bam Bam:Yeah, I do.
Senator:Listen, for me, it's like Groundhog Day. Every day is a new day. I can't compare with Cuba's return like twenty years
Gizmo:ago. Run us through your
Pagoda:changes. So I'll give my full list. The Trini Robusto for me is very much like a Schwa Supreme, that has totally knocked that out. I haven't reached for a Schwa because of that cigar. The aging room concerto, like I mentioned for me, has been a Monty two, you know, substitute.
Pagoda:And again, none of these are one for one, it's just that there are notes in them that are reminiscent in some way. For the d four, the Aladino Cameroon
Bam Bam:Oh, we do which
Pagoda:has the body of that and some of the baking spice. The Dahlia, like I mentioned, the Cohiba ciglo five, aladino eighty fifth for me has been somewhat of a RAS substitute, and not like any RAS. Because the thing with RAS for me, I have had a range of flavor
Rooster:Yeah.
Gizmo:They're experiences with RAS. Down, man.
Pagoda:Yeah. Some are actually like on the, like, the lighter, like, side almost, and others are earthier and richer and fuller. Had more richer spirits, lighter experiences have some similarities to the Aladino eighty fifth. Touch. So that's where there's some similarity for me.
Pagoda:Other ones, I just wanna make sure I'm not missing anything. I think those are probably like the main ones. So like there's five new worlds that we have recently within the last year or two discovered that for me, there is some similarity to a particular Cuban cigar that has made it not as essential for me to pull for that Cuban cigar to get some of that experience that I'm looking for.
Bam Bam:Last night, I had the RYJ Churchill after the big game. That gives me hints of I can slot in the Trinity Robusto for that. Not comparing the size or the dimension of it, to me, that doesn't matter. But the flavor I'm getting, I kind of can see that similarity. I do like that parity between the Sonata and the QD-fifty four.
Bam Bam:For me, the QD 54 has a little bit of that earthiness, just a touch of cocoa that I get in that Sonata. I don't get citrus in, of course, the QD, maybe a little bit, but much more in the Sonata. I don't know.
Pagoda:Oh, that's the other one I forgot. It's kinda using too. So the Dahlia, we talked about the Cohiba ciglo five, but also for me, that's in some ways been like a substitute for QD Coronas Claro. There's not as much citrus as the Coronas
Bam Bam:Claro has. That's a stretch.
Pagoda:But the creaminess of the cigar when you have an aged Coronas Claro and some of the nuttiness that's there with those citrus notes, there's some similarities that I have not felt like I need.
Bam Bam:You know where? I would actually, the Coronas Claro and the Elegante Lancero, I would put more there would
Gizmo:be more Eladino.
Bam Bam:I I think so above the Sonata. For me, there's more of a similar That's just for me.
Pagoda:Oh, for me, I'm sorry, the Elagante, I would say it's like a Cohiba Lancero
Gizmo:Cohiba Lancero.
Bam Bam:That would also work.
Gizmo:I have replaced the Cohiba Lancero with the Aladino.
Bam Bam:Or even a touch of the Cigla five for me, Even a touch.
Gizmo:Cigla five for me, it's wholly been replaced by the dahlia.
Bam Bam:Yeah? Okay.
Rooster:The BR dahlia. There is one note that's kind of missing in the New World cigars, and maybe it's very difficult to replicate the floral note.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's true.
Rooster:That you get out of the MDO series.
Bam Bam:You're right on the money.
Rooster:That I don't know if what other new world Nothing. Don't think we found that yet. Right?
Gizmo:The only thing I think we called out the other day, we were smoking a non Cuban cigar. It was and you related it to the Turquinos.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. What was that? That was actually very, very good.
Gizmo:What was that cigar?
Bam Bam:Oh, was that the Mirefel?
Gizmo:The Mirefel. Yes. You compared the Mirefell to Out of all of them, maybe that might
Rooster:be the only one that
Bam Bam:has call out.
Rooster:Is that was stupid cigar.
Gizmo:The way, senator, before we get to, you know, our wizard of the week and our ratings, you you weren't here for that episode, the Mirappel La Estancia 52. I know you smoked one outside of the pod. You said it was excellent, but you had some points. I was just well, I wanted to share
Pagoda:that.
Senator:I thought
Pagoda:it was an outstanding blend, super Cubanesque, clearly aged, very creamy, enjoyed it all the way through. My only complaint at that cigar, the flavor profile is definitely on the milder side. It starts like milds, gets like mild medium, and I'm not even sure if it ever firmly touches medium. I think it ends mild medium. And so my only complaint was in the final third, since the whole experience was pretty mild, I was hoping that it would hit medium and just deliver some more richness of flavor.
Pagoda:It did not. It sort of ended the way it started, which was great. Yeah. But I just wanted more. And at a 30 something dollar price point, you know, I'm expecting a perfect experience.
Pagoda:I'm not expecting to be wanting more at any stage of it. So that's why, like, for me, I would have given that a 9 if I was there for that reason alone. I just it it needed more to be a perfect complete experience for a really premium priced cigar, but the blend none nonetheless outstanding. I mean, you would not know that's a New World cigar if you had that product.
Rooster:If you take the bands off of that Absolutely correct. Gave it to anybody who's strictly a Cuban smoker, they would guarantee they would think it's a Cuban cigar. Yeah.
Gizmo:By the way.
Senator:You have such conviction.
Gizmo:No, he's not right He's been fooled
Pagoda:by Pagoda with He the thought he was smoking a QD. Did we
Bam Bam:give that a 10?
Gizmo:No. It wasn't a 10. Was
Bam Bam:Just up there. Okay.
Gizmo:94, 97.
Rooster:I don't I don't remember who
Gizmo:it was. But so I opened that box the other day to bring Senator a cigar. It might be the most incredible aroma in The a smell coming off of those cigars is unbelievable.
Bam Bam:You know, even though it didn't ramp up in robustness toward the end, it's just so unique how the creaminess began and literally continued until the flame touched your finger. That's pretty freaking unique. That's why I love that cigar.
Rooster:Very hard to find. Very. Hopefully, they come back up.
Gizmo:Yeah. They've been gone since we recorded.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. Turquinos, great call
Senator:out though.
Pagoda:Can we also since we were trying to identify Cubans that we have found some similar New World analog, can we just talk about also some Cubans that were part of our regular rotation, not like special Cubans we occasionally smoke, that we have actually not found any New World analog or something with similarities to as a pseudo replacement. Because I think of the mag 46
Gizmo:Mag 46, there is haven't
Rooster:had anything to
Gizmo:things like that.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Pagoda:Anything that has even a meaningful note that's super similar. Another one, the bellicose sphenos, I haven't really found one
Gizmo:you know what's funny though? Don't chase that flavor though.
Pagoda:Well, know you don't, but I'm saying for me, I But even if you don't, I don't think you would call out any cigar that's similar in the new world space.
Gizmo:Yeah. I have another one, Particus e two.
Bam Bam:I was about to go there. Agree.
Gizmo:Particus e two. I've not had a cigar that tastes like that.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:And I'd also argue some of the aged Cohiba stuff we've done, the Asplendidos, the
Pagoda:Hold on. Wait a minute. What was the cigar that and you had agreed with me, I think we were on my patio one night, and I said if this were unbanded, someone would believe that this is a bajique. It was like a 54 ring gauge New World.
Gizmo:I remember you saying that. I have no idea what cigar it was.
Pagoda:You had agreed with me though, so I knew I
Bam Bam:Have we all smoked it?
Pagoda:Yeah. Would that have before. Was it a Perdomo? Oh my god. It was the Perdomo
Gizmo:The legacy. The legacy. It was the Perdomo legacy.
Pagoda:I remember. So that that's actually an important call out. Yeah. That cigar, if you had that blind
Gizmo:By the way, talk about can you believe if five years ago looking ahead, would we have been talking like this?
Bam Bam:No.
Gizmo:Saying a Perdomo tastes like a bajique?
Pagoda:But it just when you said the e two, I was like, wait a minute. There is one cigar that at least has something similar. Again, that Perdomo is not a one for one with a Bahike. It's not a one for one with an e two. But there are notes in that that are Bahike like in some ways, and also I think e two like when you get, like, one of the kind of fuller e twos that's like not as mild.
Pagoda:So that's another one I would definitely call out that we have found as like a Cuban analog.
Rooster:Yeah. I haven't found anything to replace a punch punch, especially an aged
Pagoda:punch punch. That peanut butter now. Sorry, that's the short to punch I'm talking about.
Bam Bam:Oh, the short to punch is also very unusual.
Gizmo:I haven't had that in a long time.
Bam Bam:Neither have I.
Gizmo:I bet mine with all this age tastes like a jar of Jiffy.
Bam Bam:No, Jiffy peanut butter. Excellent.
Gizmo:No. That's not a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Jiffy peanut butter. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Come on. Alright. Have an Uncrustable.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. We'll continue this conversation in the coming weeks with listener comments. So what we wanna hear from the lizards out there is what do you relate to in this conversation? What do you think we're crazy saying? And what cigars have replaced those heavy rotation Cubans that you can't access anymore or for whatever reason you don't wanna reach for?
Gizmo:Is it price, accessibility, whatever it may be? Let us know what non Cuban cigars have have slotted in where those Cubans have been before, and we'll share some of the comments in the coming weeks.
Bam Bam:Oh, what do you compare the Majestic to? What would you slot in for this thing?
Gizmo:Dude, this is an awesome cigar. Oh, by
Rooster:the way
Bam Bam:It's really quite delicious.
Gizmo:I haven't said this first, third, second, third, last third, but we are well into the second half, let's say, last third of the H Upmann Majestic. Throughout this discussion, this has been an incredible cigar.
Bam Bam:It's really quite good.
Gizmo:I'm pretty blown away by it.
Bam Bam:What would you what new world would you slot this in?
Pagoda:I don't think there is one
Gizmo:for I name one. What do you think?
Bam Bam:I don't know yet.
Rooster:Rooster. It's hard to compare this to anything else. I mean, there's so much that baking spice really comes through. I'm thinking of thinking of another new world that is baking spice heavy like the Upmann DNA.
Bam Bam:It's hard. There is a bready graham cracker y toasted thing happening with this too, just a little bit, right? Like I said earlier, there are several new worlds that overlap several Cuban cigars. I can't get over how much I love the Trinity Robusto, and maybe because I love it so freaking much, I'm comparing it to many of my Cubans, but you know, I don't know.
Rooster:Mean, we
Gizmo:have found
Rooster:so many New World spokes that have, if not replicated, it gives you amazing satisfaction that we were getting out of the Cuban cigars at a fraction of the price. That doesn't make you miss it.
Gizmo:No. Alright, boys. Before we get into our ratings, it's time now to go to our lizard of the week presented by our friends at Bon Robert Cigars. Our lizard of the week this week is our friend Lizard Lake, who's gonna win a 10 count box of cigars from Bond Roberts, and he shares an email that says, Shelley's DC and thoughts on tobacco digital purge. What?
Gizmo:So he says, hey, Giz. First off, I wanted to thank the pod and senator specifically for the recommendation on Shelley's backroom in DC. I was in town for an industry fly in awareness effort on Capitol Hill, and the event hotel was just down the street from Shelly's. I had a fairly empty schedule on arrival day, and I spent it at Shelly's doing my best impression of Grindr with my work laptop, knocking out emails and cigars simultaneously. I second the pod's recommendation for anyone visiting or living around DC.
Gizmo:My visit reminded me of how a great lounge is a major community asset. Without the lizards, I wouldn't have thought to venture out to a spot like this on a work trip. How does that make you feel, senator?
Pagoda:I love that. I mean, Shelley's never disappoints, and it's a DC institution in that. It's really the last lounge that has survived. I mean, you used to be able to smoke a cigar at, you know, Draper's The Cigar Shop. You're not even allowed to sit in their chairs and smoke a cigar there anymore.
Pagoda:Civil Cigar Lounge had opened up. That place closed down. I mean, Shelley's is really the only show in town that has persisted time, and so I hope tons of lizards go there and continue to support that place because they do a great job, and I hope that that's there for, you know, decades to come.
Gizmo:So he continues on. I wanted to write in today after listening to the PCA recap and hearing you all talk about the important work the organization does to promote and protect our beloved hobby. You and the guys frequently talk about these terrible generational tobacco bans, indoor smoking restrictions killing off community lounges, and other forms of attacks on cigars. But I haven't heard much from y'all on the major tech and social media companies doing much of the same thing to our online groups and communities. For example, the Discord platform, which, by the way, if you guys aren't familiar, is a hotbed of folks communities of cigar smokers get together, chat, share photos, kind of like we do on the chat, but it's like hundreds and hundreds of people.
Gizmo:Discord has been a pretty big platform for that. Great. Awesome. They recently went all out in taking down several prominent cigar groups that were an amazing hub for sharing photos, recommendations, and a lifeline for trading or buying selling sticks between members. One of the terminated groups facilitated a great quote, verification trade between you and I when you joined the community and were spreading the word about the pod in the very early days.
Gizmo:And remember that. Other platforms like Reddit require not safe for work tags on anything related to cigars, the same designated tag used for porn or gore videos. Phallic jokes about the 60 ring gauge cigars aside, treating a picture of a cigar like a dick pic is an overreach. The moderators of the cigar subreddits frequently remind the members how much Reddit would love to permanently ban any pages dedicated to premium cigars and are just itching for a reason to do so. I know there are communities like FOH that stay independent and out of reach of these tech corporate policies that want to demonize premium cigars, but I want to know if this topic of a digital purge on premium cigars has come up before at PCA or inside conversations with Josh.
Gizmo:I know the platforms on the side of caution regarding the legality of users selling or trading a product that has an 18 or a 21 age restriction, but on the same hand, they allow so much from groups to focus on content that could be harmful to underage users. The same trend as cities banning lounges in the name of health protections, but welcoming cannabis dispensaries with open arms. I apologize for the venting rant, but I'm worried for the day where we are left with only one or two good independent forums and a few quality one way engagement mediums like podcasts and print publications. I'd love to hear the Lizards' thoughts or experiences with the matter and any recommendations on how your listeners can engage with or support PCA in its fight to keep our cigar communities alive. As always, thanks to you and the rest of the guys for putting in the work to deliver such great content week after week.
Gizmo:Thanks, Lizard Lake. What an email.
Bam Bam:Very good email.
Gizmo:You know, we haven't discussed this before. So, you know, in giving Lizard Lake, who's been an OG Lizard for five years now, Lizard of the Week here, you know, this is a topic we haven't talked about. And and and how crazy it is, like YouTube purging, you know, Facebook and Instagram purging these communities and these these pages, and certainly now Discord and Reddit looking for any reason to ban discussion around premium cigars.
Pagoda:Well, I think there's a distinction on this. So there were a few questions here, so I'm gonna start with the easy and then work our way to the more nuanced parts. The first question I think is an easy one. This lizard had asked how much conversation there has been around social media purging, if there's been any side conversation with Josh. The answer is I think little to none.
Pagoda:This has not been a topic at any PCA that we've been at. None. I have not had a single conversation with Josh about this. I've not heard him complain about this. Not saying that it's not a problem, but I don't think that this has like risen to the top of PCA's priorities.
Pagoda:On the platforms themselves, I just wanna draw, I think, an important distinction on how some of these platforms handle this. So Discord, actually think, is a a great example of a platform that does a much better job of this. And I say that because they require age verification if you wanna access content that is only appropriate for 18. So when you have a system like that, it's very easy to ensure that like cigar tobacco related, you know, content on there is only consumed by 18 people who are legally allowed to purchase and consume the product. Reddit does not require age verification.
Pagoda:It only requires in like The UK and some European countries that by law, their privacy laws dictate they must do that, or certain US states that have singularly tried to do that. But outside of that, there's no verification. So I think like for Reddit, it's it's a lot harder because if you're allowing anybody to consume the content, yeah, you you're now putting yourself as a platform in a position where you need to air so much on the side of caution that, like, you're censoring almost content for people that should be able to consume it. So I just hold up Discord, I think, as like a very good model for I think how a lot of other social media platforms ought to follow suit to handle adult content like tobacco and anything else. So I just think that's an important nuance in this discussion.
Rooster:How is the age verification really verified?
Gizmo:I think they have to upload an ID or
Pagoda:something, Oh, have to? It's very serious.
Gizmo:You know, I think the problem
Rooster:It wasn't just like checking off a box
Gizmo:that I'm over 18. My commentary is going to be nuanced here, but I think the problem with some of these really terrible things that happen on online platforms that don't happen in cigar forms is that there's not secret lingo that's being used in code words and all this other shit that I think it requires like an FBI like, you know, crazy like investigator understanding these terms. You know, cigar smokers, we just, hey, do you want this? You need this? What do you got?
Gizmo:I'll take that. Like, that's what we do. So it's easier to pick that shit off.
Bam Bam:Who has the time to live a life like that?
Gizmo:Well, there's a lot of people out
Bam Bam:there, man. Unbelievable.
Gizmo:It's sad and it's crazy.
Pagoda:Yeah. I think also, I'm less concerned about the lingo because I think the FBI or any of these agencies, like, they they know what all the lingo means. I just think, like, there is not the kind of predatory behavior happening on, like, a tobacco related forum That's correct. That there is, like, you know, like, more mature adult content. Like, that's a whole whole different ballgame.
Gizmo:So why is this content being attacked on these platforms? You you look at YouTube, right? If you put up cigar content regularly on YouTube, you can't monetize it. You can't monetize it. So you have to earn revenue elsewhere.
Gizmo:I mean, I'm glad we're not on video because Keep in
Pagoda:mind, YouTube also does not require age verification. That's true. That's why I bring up that distinction. Discord is an outlier, and I think it is really clever long term. Like, it seems restrictive at first.
Pagoda:It's like, oh, well, this is annoying. I have to go through age verification. But like when a platform does that, you guarantee them that you're able to access, like, the content that is appropriate for your age group. On the platforms that don't, while it's not as burden it's less burdensome, and they they don't wanna do it because they want as many users and eyeballs on their platform as possible, but when you don't, it then becomes potentially restrictive for adult content like tobacco, and then, you know, when you're a consumer of that, you're you're censored. You're not able to view the stuff that you would like to, so I just think it's a really unique and smart move that Discord has made, and I hope that other platforms consider
Gizmo:doing So he made a point here, and I was in one of the Discords that got killed by Discord. And, you know, certainly, it was one of those that, like, there was, you know, verified trading like he he talked about. There was no weird stuff. Like, everything was above board. And everybody was verified, and it was legit, and they nuked the entire server.
Pagoda:The only thing
Rooster:I can think
Pagoda:is, were people selling boxes?
Gizmo:That's where I was going, is I think an element of this is transacting tobacco products Yeah, I
Pagoda:don't want that.
Gizmo:On any of these platforms, whether or not you're legal or not. That's a no go territory.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:Which is why I think the Reddit community survived, because they don't allow it. Whereas Discord, it's very apparent, and you can post up, I have this box, I have that box, whatever, and you can transact on Discord. So I think that's why these communities are getting nuked. And what I think these Discord communities need to stop is the ability to transact boxes, cigars, tobacco, whatever, on the platform.
Bam Bam:Totally agree.
Gizmo:That's how you're going to survive. Because you're avoiding tax, you're avoiding regulation, you're avoiding FDA, you're avoiding states, everything. You need to protect yourself. Why even allow that?
Bam Bam:Makes no sense.
Gizmo:It makes no sense. So that point
Senator:But why is Discord doing it anyway?
Pagoda:No. It's not Discord itself. Users
Gizmo:are using Discord.
Senator:No. No. Why why is Discord banning them? Because regulations?
Gizmo:Or Well, because, I mean, Discord mean, you
Pagoda:don't complicit wanna with the sale of tobacco potentially to a minor. I mean, it's one thing for a user to verify their age on a platform, but if someone who's underage is logged into that platform and is saying to send a box of tobacco to this address, like, there's no way to verify it. Where the cigar websites, the name that you're using has to match, and they verify the age. And then obviously, you're also using a credit card that is presumably in that exact same name. Discord is not a platform to transact, you know, product, so they don't do that verification.
Pagoda:They only verify that the user is of a certain age, so they just don't wanna be in that business. Any platform doesn't wanna be in that business.
Rooster:And by the
Gizmo:way, some of the big cigar retailers out there now, they're like doing age verification. So if you don't match your name to the credit card, to the billing address, everything else, they're not gonna take your order.
Bam Bam:That's smart.
Gizmo:They knock it. Yeah. You know? So great question here from Lizard Lake. He also asked about engaging with PCA to support their efforts.
Gizmo:The best way to do that is to either join PCA or donate or find one of the cigar rights associations that you, you know, appreciate what they're doing and make a donation or support. You know, a lot of manufacturers do things where they make cigars and all the money, the proceeds from those cigars they sell go to those organizations. So I think just becoming aware of what's happening and how to support them, either with buying retail sticks, donating stuff, whatever it may be, buying merchandise, whatever it is, that's the best way to do it. Is, you know, support these folks through that way. Of course, PCA is not so much a consumer organization.
Gizmo:It's a, you know, manufacturer to retailer distributor organization. So there are some others out there. If it's not PCA, it's somebody else, but you can support these efforts as a consumer. So, boys, we are coming to the end of our evening now. We obviously did the formal lizard rating already on the Davidoff Grand Cru number five, but now it's time to do the formal liquor rating on the Johnnie Walker 18 blended scotch and the formal lizard rating on the h Upmann Majestic's.
Gizmo:Any final thoughts now before we get into the last two of our three ratings tonight? And don't forget to send your ratings over for both. Delicious pairing. Great pairing.
Bam Bam:Yeah. For both cigars.
Gizmo:I I think the whiskey tonight, the scotch has been excellent for both the Dominican and the Cuban, and I'm really, really impressed with how it paired with the Cuban tonight.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:Because a lot of the time, I mean, an 18 year aged scotch, you're not gonna say is pairing well with a Cuban cigar. How would that Macallan you drank pair with a Cuban cigar, by way?
Pagoda:Oh, completely overpowered. For $400.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Alright,
Gizmo:boys. It's time now to go into the formal liquorating tonight on the Johnnie Walker 18 years age blended scotch. Bam bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:I love this spirit tonight. I could drink this with a Cuban, with a New World, with multiple cigars. It's midday kind of where it's early in the day, and it's going down beautifully. It's so easy to drink, very flavorful. I love the unique finish with that touch of cinnamon and caramel and a little bit of vanilla.
Bam Bam:Really quite surprising. I'm actually shocked at how good this was. I'm at a firm 10, Another bottle that will pursue for sure. I mean, it's really quite delicious.
Senator:When are you building the bar? That's a good question. I hope you build one
Bam Bam:now. Yeah. Very good. I'm at a 10.
Gizmo:Alright, Pergarta.
Senator:I'm at a 10 as well. You know, what's really interesting about this because when you have Johnnie Walker, like for me, I've just had the black label and you know, the double black often. Like the most frequent within the Johnnie Walker, you know, line of drinks. Very rarely the blue, you know. I've had the gold, you know, not that frequently.
Senator:So for me, when we have the black label in India, we would have it with club soda, and that's exactly, you know, with a little sploosh of Yeah. Club
Pagoda:Big sploosh guy.
Gizmo:Famous sploosh.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Senator:And having said that, you know what was really great about this particular Johnnie Walker was I haven't had a lot of this. I think I might have had it once before, but it was so good. I think it's very versatile. It's very flavorful. The viscosity, it feels light, but yet when you let it linger in your mouth and when it becomes warm, it just leaves a really pleasant, you know, sweet flavor in your palate.
Senator:Just like if you were to give me this and say, hey, listen, you know, if it was really like unbanded, quote unquote, I would say, wow, this is a fantastic, fantastic drink. So for Johnnie Walker to have such an excellent drink with the price point of about 60,
Bam Bam:Pretty 60 affordable.
Senator:Very affordable. Like, I could see having this on my deck even during the day. Yeah. You know, and in the evening. Are.
Senator:Yeah. It's like, this was what a pleasant surprise. Because I think among a lot of my friends, when they do get into blended whiskey, they gravitate towards the Chivas in the higher age statements. This Big Chivas guy, Giz.
Pagoda:That's right.
Senator:This was just a very, very pleasant surprise, and I think I'll definitely have this, and especially for the, you know, the group of my friends who really are into Johnnie Walker and they pretty much lean towards a black label. I think this is gonna be something that's gonna knock their socks off as well.
Bam Bam:This supplant your love for belts?
Senator:No, no, no. Okay.
Bam Bam:It's still a 10 though.
Senator:It's still a 10. Very high priest. It's still a 10. And you know, really interesting thing is the way I was drinking it without ice for a blended whiskey, you know, it gives you a very similar feeling to a single malt. I like, that's what I felt.
Senator:Like if you would've told me this is blended or a single malt, obviously it has a slightly different flavor profile from a Belveny. But it's one of those scotches which is really, really, you know, I'm just, you know, very happy about having experiences today.
Bam Bam:Good commentary.
Gizmo:So for me, it's a nine. I loved this scotch tonight. It wasn't a perfect scotch for me. I I think I said several times how perfect it was for the two cigars we had tonight. It was perfect for that Dominican cigar.
Gizmo:It was perfect for that Cuban cigar. However, I don't see myself running out and buying this, but goddamn, it was excellent. And I think the reason why is I don't think it's as versatile as a lot of the other scotches that we drink, blended or not. I think it was really, really good.
Bam Bam:That's surprising.
Gizmo:I'm happy with it, but I don't think that I would put this up next to a Padron.
Senator:You
Bam Bam:don't believe there's no versatility in this for you?
Gizmo:I think it's versatile on the light end of the cigars that we smoke.
Pagoda:Disagree.
Senator:Yeah. I disagree too.
Bam Bam:It's unusual.
Senator:Fine. Okay.
Gizmo:I I really enjoyed it. I I think the price is very fair. It wasn't a perfect scotch for me. It was really, really good. I was actually surprised.
Gizmo:I was thinking coming in tonight, this would be a low rating.
Bam Bam:Me
Gizmo:too. But it was really, really good. So for me, it's a nine. Senator.
Pagoda:Well, this is a vintage rating because Gizmo and I agree on the rating. He's got the right rating. Here we go. But as usual, the wrong reasons. As usual.
Pagoda:It is incredibly versatile.
Bam Bam:Quite the indictment.
Pagoda:I'm with BAM and with Pagoda. I would drink this with 90% of the cigars that we smoke. It has enough body to hold up to the vast majority of them. The flavor profile had some complexity, was really enjoyable, incredibly smooth as you would expect from a blended scotch. You know, the category that this is really in, like its direct competitor is Chivas 18.
Pagoda:Right?
Gizmo:Yeah.
Pagoda:Shibis and Johnnie Walker, those are the two biggest Every time you
Gizmo:say that word, have PTSD.
Pagoda:Oh, so does my sink. And so and and your car. Correct.
Bam Bam:Is that truly a
Rooster:And my car. And Brewster's car.
Bam Bam:Seriously though, in the industry, is that truly a parallel? Yeah.
Pagoda:The two biggest blended scotches are Chivas and Johnnie Walker.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Rooster:Ask any That's
Pagoda:all they're competing against. They're not trying to be a single malt.
Bam Bam:They're not.
Pagoda:They're both blended, and they're doing the exact same things, just their own way.
Bam Bam:Want Chivas to be a step down from this.
Pagoda:I agree. That's that's exactly where I'm going. I think Johnnie Walker has done a much better job with this eighteen year. I think this drinks more like a single malt than Chivas 18 ever can.
Bam Bam:Absolutely.
Pagoda:And so I think they deserve a world of credit. I would absolutely drink this if someone poured this for me. The reason I didn't give it the 10, it doesn't have enough richness to, for me, merit like the full 10. You know? I if I wanted like a perfectly complete experience for an 18 spirit, I am wanting more richness and flavor, a bit more body, but for what it does at its price point, I mean, $65 for something with an 18 year age statement
Bam Bam:If you drink enough, it could be a tenth.
Senator:Think it's reaching a 12 right now.
Bam Bam:It's so easy to drink.
Senator:We've nearly finished a bottle. I think I haven't finished it yet.
Bam Bam:Look, between you and I,
Rooster:Pigar, we
Bam Bam:could kill a bottle easy. Easy. No doubt. Isn't there a
Rooster:Chivas which is kinda comparable to a blue label of Johnnie Walker?
Bam Bam:I don't know.
Rooster:Royal Salute?
Senator:I don't even know.
Gizmo:Isn't Royal Salute Shivers? I have no idea. Mean, I'm sure they
Bam Bam:have something. I don't know who drinks it.
Pagoda:So anyway, for all those reasons, I'm at a strong nine. It's definitely worth trying if you haven't. It's a really, really great value for what it is. I think if you're a single malt drinker and you're just looking for something more accessible, something more budget friendly to have regularly that is similar enough to satisfy your palate, maybe not perfectly complete it, but be satisfying, I think this definitely fits the bill, so I'm at a strong nine.
Gizmo:I love when you and I agree.
Senator:You know what? You know, when a when a group of when a group of friends comes along, have a couple of bottle of these, and they'll
Gizmo:This is great for $60 for a group of friends.
Bam Bam:Oh, it's excellent.
Gizmo:So boys, the former liquor rating tonight on the Johnnie Walker 18 years age blended.
Senator:What about Bam? Did he rate?
Gizmo:Scotch whiskey.
Senator:Oh, He did. Was a 9.5.
Bam Bam:How dare you?
Senator:I'm sorry.
Pagoda:Have another glass of beer.
Gizmo:Yeah. Correct.
Bam Bam:I mean nothing to you.
Senator:No. No. I think
Bam Bam:I am invisible to you.
Gizmo:No. No. You're not.
Bam Bam:I am meaningless to you.
Senator:No. That's why I asked. I said I'm looking for Bam Draymond.
Gizmo:On the liquor rating, he goes first. Correct.
Senator:He does. Yeah. Alright, boys.
Gizmo:It's time now for the formal lizard rating tonight.
Bam Bam:I'm unforgettable to you.
Rooster:On the H.
Gizmo:Uppmann Majestic's Rooster Europe.
Rooster:So I had no idea what this cigar would be like. I have never had the Uppmann Majestic. It's the only Uppmann that I have not had, and I think it's probably speak for the group. I don't think any of you guys have had the Majestic. Having known nothing about this cigar, when you open the box and you pull one cigar out, first of all, it's a beautiful looking cigar.
Rooster:It's a great size. The wrapper is pristine. This cigar with four years of age on it, even at that point, was like, I'm not familiar with this. I'm not sure how it's going to smoke. But I was absolutely blown away by the cigar.
Rooster:This cigar started off, it was creamy. You get the it has the Upmann DNA. I mean, although I think, Bam, you
Gizmo:said it you you think
Rooster:it's different than any other Upmann?
Bam Bam:I think it's different than It does have
Rooster:It probably is. It is
Bam Bam:different. For me, and I'll note this in my rating, there's that baking spice that you're getting in this that you get in almost every Upmann, so that's where the DNA is consistent. But there are hints of a new world experience while I'm smoking this,
Gizmo:Yeah, agree Which
Bam Bam:with I love. And it's what makes it such a unique stick.
Rooster:Yeah, and it's not mild. It's leaning more towards medium.
Gizmo:And it kind
Rooster:of picks up in strength in the last third. Absolutely. The nuttiness and the baking spice, all of that pick up, the nutmeg is there. There's even a little hint of cocoa that I got now and then. The construction was flawless.
Rooster:I mean, there's five of us smoking a cigar with absolutely no relights, no issues on the cigar. So I'm at a nine, and I might have to beg BAM for another one. Sure.
Bam Bam:All right.
Gizmo:All right, Senator. So
Pagoda:this cigar for me was hard to find a single flaw in. I'm at a strong 10. The Davidoff we had before was really good, but man, this this ended my night on such a high note. The flavor profile, you know, it's rare, especially to have a New World first and then a Cuban. It's rare that a Cuban delivers more flavor than a New World, And I think from the light all the way to the end, this was a richer, more complete experience.
Pagoda:The flavor notes, the Upmann DNA is definitely there. It it screams at my palate, like, the nuttiness that this cigar had, the baking spice. There was some creaminess. So much to love about it. For a Cuban cigar that you kinda especially with a smaller ring gauge Cuban, you kinda always hold your breath in terms of the draw and the construction.
Pagoda:The smoke output was shockingly excellent.
Bam Bam:I'm actually surprised that every cigar performed well tonight.
Gizmo:Flawless. Yes. Stunning. Very surprising. I don't think I've heard a lighter since we lit this cigar.
Bam Bam:Maybe one or two, but just to kinda touch up.
Senator:Yeah, for time. Needed to try more cigars from your humidor.
Bam Bam:I'll take that as a compliment.
Pagoda:Of course. But I say that because, you know, the other cigar that I used to regularly smoke that is the identical, I think, Vitola to this was the Super Partigus, and that from a construction standpoint, I love the flavor on that cigar. You get the baking spicier, but construction wise, half of those It's a roller coaster. It's super tight, the draw, and I just power through it because I bought them at such an affordable price. I love the Partagas flavor profile, but I know I'm not gonna get most of even the time, the smoke output I want.
Pagoda:This was flawless. I I'm truly shocked how good. I would absolutely if these were accessible and as in like not by price point, but the ability to purchase, I would buy boxes of these. This could be a great morning smoke. It can be a great afternoon smoke, and it has enough body that I could even smoke this in the evening and enjoy it.
Pagoda:Yep. So the versatility for me is also off the charts. What a spectacular cigar. I I just can't believe. I mean, none of us have really ever heard this celebrated very much, but I think for a short smoke, what an outstanding job.
Pagoda:So I'm in
Rooster:a strong 10. Imagine if we found a box of these with a LUB 14 box.
Gizmo:Oh, don't even taste it. Would be an 11. Why would you
Pagoda:do that?
Gizmo:So for me, it's also a 10. I thought every single draw of this cigar was brilliant. I mean, from the moment that we opened that box when Bam brought it in tonight and I pulled the cigar out, I was shocked at how great it looked, well constructed, felt good in the hand, properly packed. It seemed like a home run from the moment I pulled it out of the box. And to think that we were coming in tonight with a cigar that was overlooked or ignored or certainly I've never had one.
Gizmo:I've never thought to have one. I didn't care about the H. Upmann Majestic. I mean, I thought it was a lesser H. Upmann offering.
Gizmo:And what it's done tonight has proven that to be completely wrong. And I can't believe that for all these years that we've missed out on this. And I thank you for finding it, Bam, because this is a home run petite Corona. I think it's excellent. Honestly, against some of the other Habanos petite Coronas, I think this stands pretty tall, especially at the rating tonight that I'm giving it at a 10, senator a 10, you at a nine, rooster.
Gizmo:We'll see what you guys give it. But I really love the flavor profile. Every draw was great. The smoke output was unbelievable. I think it was unique.
Gizmo:In in the exercise, we tried to find things to compare to it. We couldn't find something to compare to it. I I'm really blown away. The h Upmann Majestic is a win. If you can get your hands on a box on Bon Roberts, these are gonna go at a discount for sure.
Gizmo:They're not gonna go like a, you know, a a PLPC does or any of the other h upman offerings. This is a win if you can find it really, really good. This four years age box, I I can't believe it. Unbelievable. The h upman Majestic for me was a 10.
Rooster:What what else are you holding back on, Ben?
Bam Bam:I'm not sure. I gotta look.
Gizmo:Well, the Opus De Buy was one.
Bam Bam:Well, that got an eight.
Gizmo:This is another. So
Pagoda:I'm also just curious. I mean, like, just value for dollar here on this versus the last cigar we just smoked. What was the length of that Davidoff? Four.
Senator:Four is This is five and a half.
Pagoda:See, it's so funny because
Gizmo:This feels like double the size.
Pagoda:It does. Literally does.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Pagoda:And it's like I even looked up I just asked AI, what is the traditional size of a petite corona? And it says four and a half to five. Wow. So you're saying that Davidoff was four, you feel shortchanged. Yeah.
Pagoda:A petite corona, I feel like, ought to be a minimum of four and a half. Correct. And it just dramatically improved the experience to have a cigar of this length with the smaller ring gauge. I mean, look at it. Gizz is holding them right
Senator:next Two to inches for sure.
Gizmo:It's about a cigar. It's an
Bam Bam:inch and
Gizmo:a half.
Bam Bam:It's an inch and half.
Gizmo:But when they're in your hand, it's this feels small and this feels like a cigar.
Pagoda:That's exactly it.
Gizmo:It's like double the size. Correct.
Pagoda:Despite the small ring age, this felt like a cigar all the way through, and that felt like a cigarillo
Gizmo:Yeah.
Pagoda:The Davidoff.
Gizmo:It did.
Rooster:But it took about the same time to smoke.
Bam Bam:It did. Also true.
Gizmo:The Davidoff did smoke slow,
Senator:but it
Gizmo:it just didn't feel like if you're sitting there, like, with some friends smoking that
Pagoda:I also think that I like, I'll speak for myself at least. I was smoking that Davidoff slower because of how small it looked from the start. True. So I knew I had no choice if I was gonna get a decent amount of time. This cigar, enjoyed so much.
Pagoda:I mean, I was practically inhaling the thing. So Yeah. The fact that it was at the same time, like, I think says a lot about this cigar.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Rooster:It's a it's a better smoke. It's a fuller experience. It's more satisfying. And it's also a little bit cheaper. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Alright, Pagoda.
Senator:Yeah. I think you have all explained everything. I have nothing to say, but it's a 10. No. But this has been fantastic.
Senator:I'll tell you what's really interesting is, I think in the previous cigar I had mentioned the last inch, inch and a half where I was finding it a little stronger and it was leaving, you know, I wasn't getting much out of it. Like, look at this. This has left such a pleasant flavor profile on my lips and to the back. At this, you know, the bottom of the cigar, it's the bottom last inch maybe of the cigar, it's fantastic. From the very beginning to the end, it's a pleasant experience.
Senator:If you want to smoke a cigar, you know, sometimes you just want to hold a cigar and really enjoy it, this is one of the cigars which will give you that experience. And what, like considering the price, the flavor profile, it's just been a fantastic, fantastic thing. It worked also really well, you know, with the pairing. And I think this second half of the pod, meaning the pairing along with the cigar, it's been very complimentary. I've really enjoyed it.
Senator:It's a 10 for me.
Gizmo:All right, Bam.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I think the Majestic's a unique cigar. I mentioned it earlier. I get hints of what a new world could be and what a Cuban could be in this cigar because of how rich this Cuban cigar is. And Pagoda, I I like your your description of how it coats your palate.
Senator:Yeah.
Bam Bam:A great cigar coats your palate and leaves an extended experience after the draw. I get that in this cigar. For the price, I think it's incredible. It's just too bad that it's probably not available anywhere. You won't ever see it.
Bam Bam:I haven't ever seen it. So it's probably an unattainable box. It's unfortunate. I think the flavor on this is so unique and different, and it's got that unique as you mentioned, Rooster, that unique Upmann DNA, just a touch of it, but it's a departure, I think, from the entire market as far as I'm concerned. And the price is unbeatable, so I'm at a clear 10.
Bam Bam:It's just undeniable.
Rooster:I don't know how this
Bam Bam:But here's the thing.
Rooster:It's not sought after.
Bam Bam:It's true.
Gizmo:It wasn't talked about. I mean, maybe this was a good run.
Rooster:Who
Bam Bam:knows? The last time I had this, mentioned it earlier, was nine months ago. It wasn't as good as tonight. And the cigar itself, as you smoke through it, it got better and better as you got down to the end. So the aging potential on this, I think is pretty interesting.
Bam Bam:There's potential there. I gave a few away. The two I had were good, not as good as tonight. So I think it's just getting better.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. The formal lichard rating tonight on the H. Upmann Majestic from Cuba is a 9.8. Wow. So let's compare that to the one other h Upmann cigar I think is appropriate to compare to.
Bam Bam:Phase for
Gizmo:this We're not gonna go through everyone. So if you wanna see all the h Upmanns we've done on this podcast, go to the website, check out the ratings archive. But the h Upmann half corona on episode 135 scored a 9.7. Just a touch below this. Wow.
Gizmo:Pretty wild. Wow. Also, on the Johnnie Walker 18, I wanna compare that to the other three we've done. I didn't do that before. On episode 39, we did the Johnny Rock the Johnny Walker black scored a 7.6.
Gizmo:On episode 43, just a couple weeks later, we did we did the Johnny Walker double black scored an eight. And finally, on episode 170, we did the Johnnie Walker gold label reserve, scored an 8.3. So tonight Wow. The Johnnie Walker 18 at a 9.5 is the far and away clear winner so far.
Bam Bam:I'm so glad. I'm glad you brought this in tonight.
Gizmo:It was a good one. Really. So, boys, what a great night tonight. Of course, we have to thank all the wizards who contribute to our show, sent voice memos that we'll get to next week. I didn't get those tonight.
Gizmo:A ton of emails I didn't get to tonight. We have a lot of stuff. But please share your thoughts with us, of course, in the discussion we had about non Cuban cigars replacing your heavy rotation Cubans. Anything else you wanna share with us, please send us a comment, an email, a voice memo, Instagram DM, something on FOH, Reddit. I don't care.
Gizmo:Send it along. We'd love to hear from you. Carrier pigeon. Please. Carrier pigeon's fine.
Gizmo:Whatever you choose. And, of course, we have to congratulate Lizard Lake, our OG friend who has won lizard of the week, and he's gonna win a 10 count box of cigars, of course, from our friends at Bon Roberts. And any of you, by sending your comments in, sharing what you think, or replying to a question that we have for you can win lizard of the week. So we have to thank Bon Roberts boys. They're great cigars.
Bam Bam:Awesome.
Gizmo:How many times have we mentioned them tonight? The Dahlias, we're all smoking them. Scored so well the other week. Unbelievable cigar and great cigars from them. Of course, we have to thank our friends at Small Batch Cigar, the official retail partner of the Lounge Lizards Podcast.
Gizmo:Use our code lizard 15 to get 15% off your entire order plus 5% rewards back plus free shipping. It's like effectively 20% off plus free shipping. I mean, you can't beat it every single time you order. They're fantastic. And finally, boys, our presenting sponsor, Fabrica Five.
Gizmo:I mean, how many times have we mentioned them tonight? I mean, we love Fabrica five. I'm gonna have a Trinity Robusto when we're done here tonight. Phenomenal cigars from them, so we really appreciate their support of the podcast. So that is Short Smoke Special number seven, boys.
Gizmo:Look at us.
Bam Bam:Delicious, rich experience tonight from beginning to
Gizmo:end. It was awesome. So should we wait two more years, or do think we should do it a little more frequently than that?
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Let's do it tomorrow. Let's do it tomorrow. And that is it for today, boys. Great night, and we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode.
Gizmo:Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us.
Gizmo:Hello at loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.