Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories

In this episode, we delve into the secrets of flourishing at work and finding environments that fuel your success. My guest, Danielle, shares her journey into customer success and cybersecurity discussing her passion for conquering imposter syndrome and embracing new challenges.

We also explore the power of confidence and how unlocking our true potential can lead to incredible growth. 

Failure is not overlooked, as we dive into the importance of learning and growing from setbacks. 

Mentorship takes center stage as we uncover the guiding lights that can propel our careers forward.

Through reflection and introspection, we explore personal growth strategies and how they can shape our professional journeys. 

As we learn more about Danielle's accomplishments and drive, I am inspired by her dedication to customer success and her goal of becoming the Head of Customer Success at TryHackMe.

Join us as we uncover the keys to flourishing at work, conquering imposter syndrome, and embracing personal and professional growth. Our guest's expertise and journey will surely leave you motivated and ready to unlock your own potential.

  • (00:00) - Intro
  • (02:40) - Flourishing at Work: Finding Environments that Fuel Success
  • (08:28) - From Contributor to Leader: Navigating the Challenges of Transition
  • (11:20) - Danielle’s Journey to Customer Success and Cybersecurity
  • (15:51) - Conquering Imposter Syndrome: Embracing New Challenges
  • (18:38) - Unleashing Your Confidence: Unlocking Your True Potential
  • (22:18) - Embracing Failure: Learning and Growing from Setbacks
  • (27:38) - The Power of Mentorship: Guiding Lights for Career Advancement
  • (38:59) - Reflection and Introspection: Exploring Personal Growth Strategies
  • (42:43) - Rapid-fire closing
  • (47:53) - Outro

Danielle’s Bio

Danielle has nearly 4 years of experience in CS to date, coupled with a background in Recruitment, Sales, and HR, which enables her to bring a unique perspective to her work. She possesses a proven track record of effectively managing teams and establishing CS processes from the ground up. In her previous role as a Customer Success Manager at ParentPay, the largest EdTech company in the UK/Europe, Danielle successfully oversaw a portfolio with an ARR of 32 million pounds. However, her ambitions extend beyond this achievement as she aspires to attain the position of Head of Customer Success at TryHackMe within the next 6 months.

Driven by her unwavering passion for all aspects of Customer Success, Danielle is constantly seeking opportunities to enhance her skills and remain abreast of industry trends. She actively serves as a brand ambassador for the Customer Success Collective, demonstrating her commitment to the field. Additionally, Danielle generously volunteers her time as a mentor to Junior CSMs on a pro bono basis.

Outside of her professional endeavors, Danielle finds joy in embarking on long walks with her partner and their dachshund, Caesar, while also enjoying socializing with friends. Furthermore, she takes pride in being a dedicated member of a pop choir.


Referenced

Where to find Danielle

Where to find Cesar

Creators & Guests

Host
Cesar Romero
Helping startups and SMBs build strong customer relationships that drive product adoption, reduce churn, and increase revenue | Community-Driven | Podcast Host
Guest
Danielle Martin
Global Senior Customer Success Manager with a passion for Customer Led Growth

What is Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories?

The lack of diversity in tech can lead to imposter syndrome, bias, and a sense of isolation that hinders your growth and ambition.

Welcome to 'Beyond The Job Title Podcast,' where we shine a spotlight on the journeys of underrepresented tech professionals and allies within the SaaS industry.

Join us as we delve into the personal development and career insights that have fueled their success.

Discover the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones.

Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.

Tune in to gain valuable insights, build your network, and navigate your tech career journey with confidence.

Subscribe now and take the next step toward your own success in the world of tech.

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Danielle Martin | BJT08
[00:00:00]
[00:00:00] Danielle: It's having to remind myself that you don't know something until you know something and everybody is always in the same boat, right? you can't move up in your career unless you're constantly challenging yourself and doing things that you've never done before. So ultimately, if I'm gonna do anything but stand still, I'm always going to be faced with challenges with things that I've never done in my life.
[00:00:24] And so I think it's having that conversation with yourself where you say, we're not meant to be good at this. We've never done this before, but what we can do is try our best. And also what we can do is we know that, we have the skills to figure it out. And I think it's turning it around and putting that trust in yourself and flipping it on its head and saying, We're meant to be here.
[00:00:45] And we got here because of our merit, because of the hard work we've put in, and reminding yourself of all the wonderful, the incredible things that you've done previously that you thought you, you couldn't do or that you never had an experience with, and then you smashed it out the park.
[00:00:57] [00:01:00] Hey friends, this is your host Cesar Romero. And you're listening to beyond the job title podcast, the show that explores the human experiences to shape our professional and personal lives.
[00:01:16] My guest for this episode is Danielle Martin. She is a global senior customer success manager at a company called tri hacked. MI, which is a cloud-based cybersecurity training platform. Danielle and I connected through catalyst coaching corner. And after our 20 minute coffee chat. I promised myself that I was going to invite her over. If I ever started a podcast.
[00:01:43] Because I found her story to be very inspirational. And in this episode, We dive deeper into the nails journey into customer success. And specifically we talk about. Finding work environments that fueled your [00:02:00] success. Conquering imposter syndrome, embracing new challenges, how to develop confidence in yourself.
[00:02:06] The power of mentorship. Embracing failure. The power of reflection, introspection. And the art of questioning things as a path. To your own personal and professional growth. What it means to chart your own path? Cultivating that success mindset. And so much more. I really enjoyed this conversation and I felt inspired.
[00:02:28] Right after our conversation. And I'm hoping that you feel the same. after the episode, Thank you so much for joining. And here's my conversation with Danielle Martin.
[00:02:40] Cesar: Danielle, thanks so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you taking the time. And I wanted to start off with, there's a quote on your LinkedIn profile, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna read it here.
[00:02:51] Everybody shines, given the right light, by Suzanne Kane. And it struck me because I think you [00:03:00] know the environment. That you create for others in the environment where, you surround yourself, has a lot of influence into the type of person you become, right? the type of actions that you take.
[00:03:13] how do you strive to create the right environment for yourself and for others? when it comes to your personal and professional life.
[00:03:22] Danielle: Yeah, it's a really good question. Thank you. the premise of it is, if you've got a plant and it's not growing, do you blame the plant?
[00:03:30] No. you go, okay, well maybe it needs more sunlight. maybe it needs better soil, maybe it needs less water. You look at the environment and I think a lot of people, where, they jump around in their career or they just don't find the right job, or, maybe the CV looks a bit patchy.
[00:03:46] people ultimately judge them and say, well, this got to be something wrong here. Maybe if you thought about, you thought that it's you.
[00:03:52] I think taking a step back and going, yeah, it was probably the environment, there's culpability on both sides, right? It's [00:04:00] about companies being able to foster a community in their workplace where people feel like it's an open, transparent and safe place to be themselves and to be open, and to have difficult conversations without it turning toxic and being able to really feel comfortable to share their views.
[00:04:19] But also there is some onus on the individual to go. Hey, have I really sat back and taken some time to understand what my perfect environment would look like? do I keep moving to companies where I haven't thought about that? And effectively, are you just finding it out as you go along?
[00:04:33] Go, you join a company and go, oh no, that's a boundary for me. I don't like this. Okay, I'll move on. And then you move to the next one. Oh, same thing, Whereas actually, if you take some time to sit back and have a think about what the perfect, you know, perfect conditions are for your plant, it might help you going forward.
[00:04:48] And you'll find the, a company that really fits with your values, your ethos, and that you are happier at. But I think with it, when it comes to creating. An environment, that helps me flourish and helps [00:05:00] people that I manage flourish. I have to start off with, a couple of roles prior to my current role, which is where I started to find my tribe, my environment, and figure out what my environment, my perfect environment was.
[00:05:12] And that was a company called My Digital. So I think for the first time, I'm quite an eccentric character, I'm quite loud, I'm quite gregarious and I'm very passionate. But you know, I've also got skills to work on and I can be quite direct, and that's not for everybody. So it's about, when I joined this company, I found myself for the first time in a company where there was no internal office politics.
[00:05:34] Everybody was quite unique in their own way, but that was celebrated, it was my first, exposure to a workplace environment where. Everybody's individuality was celebrated. And I, for the first time in a work environment felt celebrated for me as an individual, me as a person I felt listened to.
[00:05:54] I think overall being felt that you are safe in a work environment to just be yourself is a [00:06:00] great start. and that 10 that kind of set me on an upward trajectory where the next company I joined, very similar, and now I have, it's been coming up to my 30th birthday and I've had cards through from previous employees, people that I worked with, and it's kind of because I worked in environments where people celebrated me and, we got on and we made friends and things like that.
[00:06:18] So, left lasting positive impressions. So now in a management capacity, when I was thinking about what type of. Environment I wanted to have for my team, I'm quite laid back. I'm very open, very transparent. I try to make people feel comfortable to tell me anything, and I think that they feel that way because of how I react to them.
[00:06:40] nothing is off limits, if somebody said to me, I hate the way you manage me, I would say, okay, that's great feedback. let's talk about why, I never take anything personally, and because of that I find that people feel it's okay to tell me anything. I ask them kind of intrusive [00:07:00] questions that maybe some people haven't thought of, maybe not, intrusive is the wrong word, but I, I'm recently hiring for a new member of my department and I spoke to my.
[00:07:07] the colleague that I've recently brought on Lewis, who is our, junior customer success manager. I asked him, who they would like to work with as a teammate effectively.
[00:07:15] So, I said if I'm looking to bring in someone new to the department, but I asked him personally, I said, what kind of a person do you like to work with? and he was very shocked that I even asked him. He said, oh, I don't know why you're interested. And I said, well, because, it's important for me to build a culture that's sustainable and that everybody feels comfortable working in.
[00:07:31] So I think it's important to get input from everybody as to what type of personalities do you match well with, how do you like to work and make sure that we, we keep that going as the team grows. I love that. And
[00:07:43] Cesar: especially in, I feel like in this day and age, a lot of people are struggling with finding that workplace that embraces.
[00:07:50] Them for who they fully are, where they don't have to put up this mask, so to speak. And the fact that you are conscious about that and you wanna [00:08:00] build something that where people come, and they're just wanna give it, they're all a hundred percent, but also be true to themselves. I think that just speaks volumes as to the type of leader that, you are.
[00:08:10] So thank you for that, because we need more of that in the workplace, right. A lot of people are kinda living two lives almost, right? Where they have to like, kind of hide their true selves because they don't, feel comfortable like speaking up or sharing, their successes as much as their losses.
[00:08:28] Right. now I'm curious, right. Typically when someone makes a transition from independent contributor to leadership and management, there's that,Challenge of you remove yourself from the day-to-day work and it becomes more about the team and it becomes more about the strategy. and I'm curious.
[00:08:48] How has that transition been for you and,if you have any advice for someone that might be going through that transition?
[00:08:54] Danielle: I've always been very much interested in more of the strategy of [00:09:00] business and leadership. So even though. Obviously to get to the level of I am a competent with the day-to-day of doing, a C S M role, my overall goal was to always step away from that.
[00:09:11] So I think I found the transition mentally, quite positive because, it's getting to do more of the stuff that I actually enjoy. but I have to say, I do struggle with letting go sometimes. So I think that is a, it is something that I have to work on. it's so tempting, so I'll join a call with, one of my team and I'll be on a call and I think, oh gosh, they've not mentioned that.
[00:09:34] And I think, oh, I'm gonna jump in and have to physically stop myself. And then five minutes later they mention it and I think, oh gosh, I'm so glad that I didn't step in. So, it's tough to sometimes let the res go. And step away. so I think I'm definitely happier and I think better suited to a mentor in a leadership position, but I do think that, it can be tough to separate and to also manage your time [00:10:00] effectively.
[00:10:00] I watched a, a podcast recently and the gentleman was talking about becoming indestructible and what it takes to become in. Definitely easily distracted. So I find that, and, other people's priorities aren't your priority. Right? But I've always been very eager to help, eager to please, and want people.
[00:10:19] I'm very much a team player and I've always been a, type of person where if a colleague, slacks me and says, Hey, can you help me with this two seconds? And I'm doing something, I'll go, oh, okay. I'll just stop I'm doing and just help them quickly. and I think I've had to get better at protecting my time, turning off my notifications, blocking out focus time, and also blocking out time for learning and development for myself because it's, so important to keep on top of industry trends, to actually continue to progress with your own personal journey and knowledge.
[00:10:49] And I think when you get so bogged down with the day-to-day and you don't keep your time protected, it can be hard to find time to do that as well as live. It's
[00:10:58] Cesar: a hard balance. e especially when a [00:11:00] teammate. Ask for help. Oh man, that's my soft spot. cuz I wanna help everybody, right? Yeah.
[00:11:05] and I don't know if you're in a leadership position right? Isn't part of your role to kinda help out your team? So I think, that's probably the hardest part, at least for me when it comes to managing time. Cuz I wanna help everybody.
[00:11:17] Danielle: That's why we get into the job. Right?
[00:11:20] Cesar: Yeah. now I wanna shift gears to that pivotal moment in your career,
[00:11:27] Where you decided that customer success was gonna be that career path for you. what was the moment for you in your career what have been some of the learning, some of the challenges that you have experienced right throughout your customer success career so far?
[00:11:41] Danielle: Yeah. So I think the moment I realized that I was going to be in customer success period was when I made the transition from customer success executive to a customer success manager role. And to do that, I had to change companies effectively. the realization came when, as a customer success executive I was, [00:12:00] and especially being in kind of a start startup scale up type of business.
[00:12:04] I ended up being master of all, having to take on many hats. I was the first in the phone queue. I was doing tickets, support tickets. I was also, Being the first point of contact, when we had, maybe a large scale bug and having to reach out to our clients to tell 'em about it.
[00:12:17] So kind of doing the proactive and the reactive customer success work and the support. And I thought to myself, what do I want to do here? And I realized that I really wanted to do more of the proactive work, reaching out to customers, being strategic And helping them, working as a bit actually in business, partnership with clients and talking to 'em about their needs and goals and helping them achieve them and.
[00:12:41] That was when I go, okay, so I wanna move up the ranks, so I want to go to a C S M role. And that was the realization when I thought, okay, this is the career for me. Cuz I had that feeling where I knew where I was going, I knew what I wanted and I could see where I needed to go to get there.
[00:12:56] and I knew that customer success is the type of [00:13:00] industry where if you are bold and you are ambitious and you're good at your job as well, obviously, and you put the work in, it's one of those industries where you can really move up the ranks quickly, which definitely was.
[00:13:13] Helped satiate my ambitious nature, I think because there's a lot of roles where, it can take a long time To get anywhere. you have to sidestep, go down, go up, kind of pivot move jobs to kind of get anywhere near the type of salaries and the types of job progression you can get in the customer success world.
[00:13:32] Cesar: Yeah, no, absolutely. This, it's, I don't know, one of the most rewarding careers out there. maybe I'm biased, but, so how do you end up with in cybersecurity, right? Because for most people, no, nobody teaches us. Oh, cybersecurity is a career path, right? most people that, at least that I've talked to, they stumbled upon cybersecurity.
[00:13:51] and then, they take it from there. so I'm curious, what was your path to cybersecurity, right. And how have you navigated that?[00:14:00]
[00:14:00] Danielle: Yeah, so it was funny actually. I remember saying many years ago, being a bit of a technophobe and saying, I would hate to work in cybersecurity.
[00:14:08] And lo and behold, here I am. I think initially I don't go for sector. I go for job and company. first and foremost, so the main, one of the main reasons I took the role that I did is because I felt connected to the ambition of the company, the co-founders, the community aspect, the people that worked there, all felt like a good environment first and foremost.
[00:14:32] But then ironically, I got a taste and, an actual interest in cybersecurity, which came as much as a surprise to me, as anybody that knows me previously. but I think. The main driver for me is understanding that now. You genuinely get to help, the clients that you have. I'm helping people upscale their teams to truly be able to fully protect their organization's data.
[00:14:57] So, it's a big deal, and [00:15:00] every comp it affects every single type of sector. Every single type of company is so transferable. and I think I like to challenge myself and as I said previously in another life, I was very much kind, a bit of a technophobe. if there was something wrong with my computer, it would be I.
[00:15:17] IT support come and help me. I wouldn't have that drive to go and try and fix it myself. And I think getting a little bit older and, having that thirst for learning, thirst for knowledge and progression, the idea of going into cybersecurity and being able to truly learn something from scratch, really appealed to me.
[00:15:34] And I'm even currently taking my CompTIA a Security Plus, which is like a foundational level security, certification. So yeah, it's definitely been a world-class turnaround for me and, I'm really loving in the sector.
[00:15:47] Cesar: it's one of those things where when you're learning something new, right?
[00:15:51] how have you managed the imposter syndrome that naturally comes up, right? happens to me all the time, especially with a new [00:16:00] challenge, right? and. Yeah. what's your, how do you view imposter syndrome and how have you navigated that, as it comes across when you're trying on this new challenge, this new industry.
[00:16:14] Danielle: Yeah. thank you for that. It's a really important question, actually, and I don't think it's spoken about enough in just in general, And I think imposter syndrome, for me, it's the self, the negative self-talk. It's almost the other per, it's the Jekyll and the Hyde, isn't it?
[00:16:29] It's the other person inside of you that goes, wait a minute, you are not good enough for this. Or, why are you doing this? surely you should, you're not at the level that to, to be able to do this kind of work, you're making it up as you go along, And I think. For me, it's having to remind myself that you don't know something until you know something and everybody is always in the same boat, right? you can't move up in your career unless you're constantly challenging yourself and doing things that you've never done before. So ultimately, if I'm gonna [00:17:00] do anything but stand still, I'm always going to be faced with challenges with, with things that I've never done in my life.
[00:17:09] And so I think it's having that conversation with yourself where you say, we're not meant to be good at this. We've never done this before, but what we can do is try our best. And also what we can do is we know that, we have the skills to figure it out. And I think it's turning it around and putting that trust in yourself and flipping it on its head and saying, We're meant to be here.
[00:17:29] And we got here because of our merit, because of the hard work we've put in, and reminding yourself of all the wonderful, the incredible things that you've done previously that you thought you, you couldn't do or that you never had an experience with, and then you smashed it out the park.
[00:17:41] And I think it's trying's, it's quieting that voice in your head that says, you shouldn't really be here. and for me it does come up, in my day to day, when I'm asked to do a task that I've never done before,write a particular policy, for example, Hey, can you write a policy for this?
[00:17:56] We don't have one. And I go, in my head goes, you've never written a policy like [00:18:00] that before. where do we even start? And it almost can be a bit of. You can freeze almost. I get a little bit of a brain freeze sometimes where you go, you kind of kinda get a bit overwhelmed. You go, I'm not really sure how to start.
[00:18:11] So you start procrastinating. And I think it's just about being able to identify when you're doing that and you're procrastinating and you're not starting something because you don't want to, cuz you don't want fail. It's the fear of failure, isn't it? And every, no house, every house that you ever see was built brick by brick.
[00:18:26] And it's about setting the foundation and even if the first day you just write the first sentence or you do some research, it's about putting those bricks together bit by bit. And eventually you'll surprise yourself and you'll built a house.
[00:18:38] Cesar: I totally resonate with that. Even e even with this podcast, right?
[00:18:42] I had imposter syndrome like from since day one and even right now, right? who am I to be interviewing Danielle? Right? it's always like this constant battle in your head of like feeling like you're good enough and more,Where does your self confidence come from? is there a [00:19:00] particular circumstance in your upbringing or per perhaps a mentor that, instilled this se sense of self confidence and following into that?
[00:19:11] how do you convince people to give you that first chance? when you have no evidence that you can do the thing?
[00:19:17] Danielle: Yeah, it's very true. I can't pinpoint one time in my life specifically where I've got, the kickstarted me as a confident individual and I think it's very much fake it till you make it.
[00:19:29] I would class myself as confident, but I think deep down, I'm not fully confident ever, but it's about, I suppose it's about putting a bit of a mask on. So I suppose some of the confidence is a mask,
[00:19:40] it's about not showing weakness more than showing confidence. kind of almost feeling that you've gotta protect yourself with a mask of, If I don't believe in myself, no one else will. So I kind of have to. Right. I think that's probably where it comes from, almost feeling that no one did believe in me.
[00:19:55] when I was growing up and everyone kind of thought, I've never reached my potential. And people [00:20:00] along the way have said to me, you, you're never gonna, you're never gonna amount to much, And I always, my brain always just used to shout back, yeah, I will watch me. And I think that's the voice that I have always had.
[00:20:10] It's ironic because then that is coupled then with when you do make something out of yourself, your brain goes,you shouldn't really be here as well. So, sword. But, I think I just have always felt that. but confidence is a skill. Confidence is something you can learn. And I think For anybody that just accepts the fact that they're not confident, I think you do yourself a disservice. it's a scale like anything else. And yes, faking it till you make it does work, You've got to learn to just back yourself. And I think there's so many people in the world that try and put people in boxes and try and say, you don't have the skills to do this job.
[00:20:41] Or you can't do that, or you are not qualified to do that. if youve got no qualifications or degrees and you're looking a doctor within the next six months. there are things that are probably not that achievable. But I think especially in the what type of world that I have been in career-wise, you, I've been in sales, I've been in recruitment.
[00:20:59] and [00:21:00] then customer success, it, which is inevitably kind of an industry that's booming and that you're able to make those bold steps into and out, and upwards. But I think for me it's that I've always backed myself. I've moved roles, asked for a large pay rise, and people have said, You're being a bit cheeky there, you know you're never gonna get that or look, you've only had X amount of experience in that role.
[00:21:21] What makes you think you can do this now? And I've just gone watch me, watch me. And I think as well, confidence and self worth is about making promises to yourself and keeping them. That's how you build self-worth and self-confidence in yourself. So I think for me, even though I started off probably as a fake it till you make it, I've consistently, over a long period of time, I.
[00:21:46] Made bold choices back to myself with them, and they've, and then put the work in to make sure that I've achieved. And so now my brain goes, when I look at something that, might seem an impossible achievement, my brain goes, well, you've, you, [00:22:00] we've got the evidence, guys. I think we, I think she can do it.
[00:22:02] So we'll probably get a back of this time. so actually it's kind of training my brain to almost go. Yeah, I think you're all right. So yeah, I think it's the fact that I've backed myself over anything else and just gone watch me.
[00:22:14] Cesar: I love that. I love that you're bold and you better yourself.
[00:22:18] You go to the thing and you start to stack evidence that, hey, I can actually do that thing. what about when you try your best, right? And it doesn't go as planned. it wasn't perfect. but you still took action, right? has there been a moment where you failed, at. Attempting to accomplish something.
[00:22:40] And if so, what did you learn from that failure?
[00:22:44] Danielle: I'm the type of person that takes constructive criticism very well, but I also take it to heart. So I'm one of those people that I think growing up, especially with school, I was always naturally quite clever, but I was also quite lazy.
[00:22:58] I think growing [00:23:00] up that I was very, I never put a hundred percent into anything. And I think I did that as a protection, a method of protection, because I always knew deep down if I failed at something.
[00:23:09] So with my law degree, I didn't go to lectures for a year, I was, I used to worked, I still passed. I mean, I still got a law degree. It's quite good one. That's impressive. Yeah. It's, but I wouldn't recommend it, but, right. I was kind of at a point where I was like, well, I've not tried, so it doesn't a matter if I fail, because if I fail, I know that I've not tried.
[00:23:27] and I think I kind of had that attitude for a long time as a protection method where I was like, if I. I know it's okay if I fail, failure doesn't bother me because I know I've never put a hundred percent in. I think I was always really scared To ever give my full self to anything. I'm not gonna go into the psychological aspect of that because it's probably comes from somewhere, But, I think when it comes to, there's definitely been times where, you know, even in my recent job, or maybe I've done a strategy for something or, and my boss is going, it wasn't quite what we were looking for.[00:24:00] And I've gone, no problem. And then secretly I've gone away and gone felt terrible.
[00:24:05] because I take, as I said, I take things very personally, but I think this, you've gotta have skills to be able to manage that. And I think for me, when I do fail, I have a moment, maybe 24 hours, where I take it personally. I lick my wounds. I feel a bit sad and a bit ashamed, but then I very quickly turn it around and go right.
[00:24:26] let's fix it. And I think that's the key, isn't it? So I've learned to now give a hundred percent to everything that I do with no fear of failure, because now I believe that when I do fail, and failure is the biggest teacher you can ever have in your life, right? I welcome failure. I think failure is even better than succeeding in some respects.
[00:24:46] it's about experimenting, it's about trying things out, and. You can't expect to be the best at what you do unless you fail, right? So I think welcoming failure is a skill that everyone should master, And [00:25:00] it's about how you deal with the aftermath. When you do fail, that makes you who you are and will determine how successful you are.
[00:25:07] as I said now, when I failed, I take time to reflect. And I think reflection and time for thought is so important. Also, being able to sit there and actually, autopsy something and go, right, what did I do well, why did this fail? Okay, what should I do next time? How can I fix it? And then picking yourself back up.
[00:25:28] I think my dad said to me once, he's you are the most resilient person I've ever met in my life. He's things that would've flawed other people. you just, I dunno how you do it. You just get back up and you just plow through. And I think part of that is almost a bit of a robotic thing, where I just go, right?
[00:25:42] No, can't deal with that, right? It is com compartmentalizing, right? And being like, no, I can't deal with that right now. My feeling, my feelings are hurt. So I'm gonna ignore that because that's not useful to me right now. Because if I just sit here moaning about how my feelings are hurt, I'm never gonna move forward and actually, get this done.
[00:25:59] So I think it's [00:26:00] about being able to reflect and also being able to pick yourself back up and move forward in whatever way. Makes sense.
[00:26:07] Cesar: Something that you mentioned that it's very important is the fact that, you take time to process it, like 24 hours or whatever time, but then you come back and say, okay, what can we do about this?
[00:26:18] How can we make this better? Right. And I think that's the key right there. because I, the end of the day, we're humans, right? We need time to process things like it, failure is very emotional thing, right? Things are gonna pop up. but the important thing is to recognize that, give it the space, And then come back, right? And say, Hey, you know what, how can we do this differently? How can we do this better? but also it sounds like you also have the environment and the people around you that give you that space as well, right? Because I think that's very important. lot of people.
[00:26:49] Unfortunately, don't have that luxury of being in a workplace or an environment that promotes, like learning by failure. Right. so [00:27:00] yeah. I agree with you. Failure can be a great teacher if you let it, right?
[00:27:03] Danielle: Yeah. And I think that is a shame. And I've worked in a lot of companies, that have, that the environment has very much been very results driven.
[00:27:11] Failure's not an option. And I think it stifles people from being able to try out new things and experiment, And I think I'm very lucky to have found an organization where we are, and the people that I work with, they're kind, they're open, they're, they want to try things out, and also they have the same mindset as me that, failure's not necessarily a bad thing.
[00:27:32] Failure just means something didn't work. And that's okay. Yeah. Exactly. That's ok. It's not the end of the world, right?
[00:27:38] Cesar: No. you and I met, or connected via Catalyst right through the coaching corner, and I wanted to ask you about, why is mentorship important to you? And, is there a particular mentee that you've had, that,maybe had a profound change, because of something that you coach or you said, to this mentee?[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Danielle: I really do think that mentorship and, being mentored and being a mentee, it is such a valuable experience. I think it's just gives you someone to sound bored off and some, and it gives you, if you don't have that, work workplace environment where you can be collaborative and fail comfortably, it gives you a soundboard to be able to talk through your ideas, talk through is what I'm doing the right thing, what would you do?
[00:28:27] so you could almost kind of trial it out before you put it in your, put it in practice. I think one gentleman that I mentored, he kind of came to me and he was trying to make his organization's customer journey. they didn't have one and. Effectively, what we kind of realized is that the com type of company in the sector that he was working in wasn't necessarily, didn't lend itself well to normal customer success processes.
[00:28:53] So you would go maybe onboarding, then adoption, then success, or we know how that ever may, whatever it may look like. And I know it looks [00:29:00] different in every company, but, it was very difficult to come up with a normal customer success strategy for the business.
[00:29:05] And because of that, He didn't really, he wasn't able to get the customer success skills. He wanted to be able to move on eventually to a customer success manager role, which is what he wanted to do eventually. but he was very loyal to his business and, you know, he was very kind of like, oh, you know, I, I wanna stay.
[00:29:22] And I said, oh, please, it's up to you. I'm not here to tell you what to do. But I just said, you've gotta be open to the possibility that if you want to move here and you don't have you, there's a, you do a gap analysis, right? So what you, this is where you are, this is where you wanna be.
[00:29:37] These in the middle of the things that you're not currently doing, or have experience of how are you gonna get it? If you can't get it where you are. I was like, I love my company and who I work for, but you know, That it's a business, they'll survive without you, and if you're really not getting the skills or being able to showcase your abilities in the way that you need to move forward in your career, you've [00:30:00] got to be quite cutthroat sometimes and just go, sorry, I've gotta move on.
[00:30:03] and I think initially he kind of wast bit taken aback and was like, oh, I don't really think so. I think I'm gonna stay. And I said, well, again, that's absolutely fine, because it's just some advice. I don't advocate moving jobs all the time. I personally have had quite a lot of roles in my life and, that's not always gone down well when you've been looking for a new job.
[00:30:21] But I think that. It's about the circumstances, right. And I think in this circumstance, my opinion was that he probably would've been better off. And lo and behold, about six months later, he reached out and asked me, oh, hey, I'm looking for any job. if you hear about any roles in these kind of sectors, let me know.
[00:30:37] And I thought, good for you. and it was just that I felt that without kind of pressuring somebody or trying to enforce my ideas on someone too heavily, that they'd kind of come to the own, come to their own decision and made a decision that I personally felt was going to enhance their career. And that made me feel good.
[00:30:56] I think, that I'd helped someone come to that conclusion.
[00:30:59] Cesar: Yeah. That's [00:31:00] amazing. it sounds like you told him what he needed to hear, without necessarily pushing him for one way or the other one. it was like the validation he needed to be like, okay, you know what?
[00:31:12] She's right. If I'm not growing, then what am I doing? Right?
[00:31:15] Danielle: I think people just forget sometimes that I as, and as I said, like I, I love customer success. I love my job, but it isn't your whole life. And I work late, I do take personal time to work sometimes, I do those things, but in reality, I think people forget.
[00:31:31] That, life is technically quite short, and there's other things that you need to be doing with your life, and if you wanna achieve those goals, then you might wanna, you've gotta get to a certain level in your career, or you've gotta earn a certain amount. I think a lot of people just kind of, and me included, I used to kind of just get, pulled along with the flow of the river.
[00:31:49] not actually stopped to hold onto a branch for a minute and gone, wait a minute, why am I here? Why am I just, why, where am I going? Where's this river going? like, why am I gonna end up, have I thought about that? instead of just letting many [00:32:00] years go by and just ending the, going towards an unknown destination that you, that may or may not serve you.
[00:32:05] And I think it's just important to sometimes take a step back and reevaluate things and go, why do I want this? Do I want this for the right reasons? Do I want this for my ego? Do I want this to better my life? Do you want this to provide school for my kids? is there, what do I, why? What's my driver?
[00:32:22] Cesar: Yeah. And if you've not got one, or the one where you're at isn't serving, the North Star goal that you've got for your life, you need to make decisions and make them quickly because, we've only got a finite amount of time, Absolutely. now on the flip side of this, is there a mentor that comes to mind, throughout your career that perhaps this mentor said something to you or give you some advice as it relates to your career?
[00:32:48] Danielle: the mentor that I received from the Catalyst Coaching Corner actually was really, impactful to me. I mean, we only met once, but actually the time that we spent together, it was very enlightened and I think it was the [00:33:00] first time that I'd been able to be vulnerable about, feeling like I didn't know if I was good enough for where I was and not knowing.
[00:33:09] Whether the kind of steps that I was taking or the foundations I was building to build a customer success team were even Right. I felt like almost in an open forum, it felt a bit like admitting that I shouldn't be where I was to admit that I wanted to sound bored, whether I was doing the right thing almost.
[00:33:26] so to have kind of that safe space where you have someone that's, a really powerful woman that's moved their way up to a, a VP role in customer success and has really been there, done that, got the T-shirt, to be able to have somebody like that listen to me for an hour, talk about my hopes, my fears, my processes, was absolutely invaluable, and really gave me that boost and that push to go, do you know what you got?
[00:33:51] You got it, girl. you've got it. you understand, you know what you do is right. Basically it gave you, that gave me that validation, I think, to keep going and to. Not second [00:34:00] guess myself because so far I've, I've served myself pretty well, I think.
[00:34:03] Cesar: Yeah, no, I agree. is there anything like specific that you remember or, maybe her approach to mentoring or maybe something specific that she said,
[00:34:13] Danielle: I think what it was is she gave me space to come to my own conclusions. I don't. I think that was the biggest thing for me. I don't think there was any particular nuggets of wisdom. I think it was she gave me a space and maybe asked me a couple of probing questions so that I got to my own conclusions, which feels so much more valuable because I think when you have somebody that just tells you, okay, if I was you, I would do X, Y, and Z.
[00:34:39] You would then almost feel like an imposter when you did it because it didn't come from you. You are then just following. Following what somebody else has done. And you would think if somebody praises you on that work, you think in your head, well, well it wasn't really me. Or then if somebody asks you to justify why you've done it, you're like, well, so and so said I should do it.
[00:34:55] Whereas when you kind of given that safe space and somebody you know, [00:35:00] really probes and asks the right questions, what those are, I couldn't tell you. But all I know is she asked the right questions and she got my mind working, And she got me to a place where I had the space to. Just talk.
[00:35:13] And I think by talking, I kind of got to a point where I came to my own conclusions about what I should be doing and came to my own conclusions that the things I were doing were right. And I think giving validation to yourself is so much more powerful sometimes than having other people tell you're doing a good job, anyone can go, you are doing a great job.
[00:35:32] But unless you really feel it inside and feel deeply that you are, you just, your brain's gonna dismiss it and go, yeah, what do they know? They're not me.
[00:35:42] Cesar: I think all of us have our own answers. Right. And I think the trademark of a great mentor or a coach is when you feel exactly what you describe Yeah.
[00:35:51] When you have the space to, to talk. And come to your own conclusion. And it's like they almost did nothing except maybe a few [00:36:00] questions and you just realize what just happened.
[00:36:03] Danielle: the people I manage, so when they say, I had one of 'em say to me the other day, oh, I've never thought about that question.
[00:36:08] Oh, when they kind of do that and they think, oh, I think I asked him what his values were, And he was like, gosh, cause I was thinking about putting together some departmental values. And I was like, well, we were throwing around some ideas. And I was like, well, it's an interesting thing to think about, if I asked you what your values were, what would you say?
[00:36:24] And he was like, gosh, I've never even thought about that before. And I think it's things like that make people think, And then he reeled off some, a brilliant amount of values and it was really interesting conversation we ended up having. But, It all came from him. it wasn't me going, I think we should have X, Y, and Z values and this is why I think so.
[00:36:40] What do you think? And he goes, yes, sounds great. And then that's the end of the conversation. it's about like actually being invested in the person, and wanting. And I think that's the environment coming back to that, that I really am keen to establish in a department. I want people to feel seen.
[00:36:57] I want people to feel heard, and I want [00:37:00] people to be felt and seen as individuals, and understand that whatever their skills are, they have value. I think that's really important to me.
[00:37:09] Cesar: why is that important to you?
[00:37:11] Danielle: With the workplace being the place where the majority of people spend their day-to-day lives, right?
[00:37:16] it's such an important part of your life to figure out and to get right. And I think a job just isn't just a job, it's where you spend your life predominantly until you're 65, 70.
[00:37:28] so I think for me, I always knew that I wanted to be in a leadership or a management position because I have this drive where I want to make people happy. even in my personal life, my dad always said to me, he's I think one of your skills is that you just make people happy.
[00:37:43] And I, I loved that. It was one of the best compliments I've ever been given because it's true. I don't do it in a way that is inauthentic. So I wouldn't say, oh, I love your dress. If I didn't like the dress, that's what I'm talking about. I would give a compliment based on a truth, not just to give a compliment, but I [00:38:00] do, I have this just desire inside of me to make people's lives better in small and sometimes insignificant ways.
[00:38:08] But I think where I can make the biggest impact is in a leadership or management role because I have a vision where people come to work and they love it. And I don't think enough people have that vision, where they wanna foster an environment where people come to work. And they love it,
[00:38:24] I always said to my team, I said, if you get the Sunday scaries, let me know, where you sat on a Sunday going, oh gosh, I really don't wanna go to work tomorrow. Call it the Sunday scaries, where you just like, Ugh, if I could, maybe I should go off sick. And that has happened to me.
[00:38:38] And so put in roles, where when I was younger, where I had really micromanagement bosses or, the culture felt toxic or I just didn't, it just didn't feel good to get up every morning, go into work. Right. And I've always been really passionate about wanting to create the opposite of that for as many people as I can.
[00:38:59] Cesar: You [00:39:00] struck me as. Someone is very self-aware of her strengths and weaknesses, where you have opportunity to excel and you know where you might come up short.
[00:39:13] where does that come from? But in this day and age it's rare to find someone that is so self-aware. so I'm just curious here wondering, if you have particular process where you do some self-reflection, introspection. When did this start?
[00:39:27] Have you always been this way? all these questions that came up for me. cuz I think it's very admirable that you have this level of self-awareness, and that's power in this day and age of in instant gratification, right?
[00:39:41] I think that without getting too deep, I had kind of a bit of a rough childhood and everybody, it's one of those ages, older time, isn't it?
[00:39:49] Danielle: So many people do. And it's not something that defines my life and not something that, it's just one of those things. My parents did the best, but I think I found that as a child I was kind of quite lonely. I [00:40:00] was alone a lot. And it's one of those things where that probably instilled some behaviors and some, attitudes that didn't serve me in my earlier years.
[00:40:11] I struggled to kind of connect with people. I struggled to make long-term friends and I struggled in the workplace to navigate general conflict. I would probably get. quite hotheaded or or the opposite, cuz I was kind of, I was very people pleasing.
[00:40:26] So I would let people walk all over me, but then it would build up and I would feel very hurt and very, then it would kind of come out and I would Yeah. Go over the top because I was like, I feel you've done this to me and this to me and this to me. Whereas in reality, it's probably stemmed from a tiny thing.
[00:40:41] Right. And I think as I started to get into my early twenties, I started recognizing the behaviors and going, is this really how I want my life to be, or, And I think just naturally it came like. Why am I not happy? Yeah. because I wasn't, I got to a point in my life where I was like, I'm not, I'm deeply unhappy.
[00:40:59] Why am I [00:41:00] this way? It's gotta be something, it can't be this, it can't just be me, Right. And I think it's the never accepting a version of you that you don't like is always been my thing. if I identify, and I did do a lot of in inner work, in my early twenties where I really dug into the self-help world, to kind of go, oh, okay.
[00:41:20] why am I the way I am? And what do I, what bits of me do I want to, polish up? I think, but I think it's the refusing to accept I am, that I don't have any control over who I am and what you know, and how I turn out. And I think I, it just, I naturally started to then identify certain behaviors, certain coping mechanisms set, and, as a kind of, a bit of a kind of quiet people pleaser, I would never speak up.
[00:41:46] And then I definitely found my voice, as you can tell today. And I think it's about then learning to not overuse that voice to then not drown other people out. to be able to kind of be direct, but without being [00:42:00] rude. To be able to be loud when necessary, but also be able to listen and be quiet.
[00:42:05] So I think deep, deep diving into who I was as a person, what the behaviors I had that I thought weren't serving me, and thinking about how I could change those led me to kind of develop this growth mindset where then I constantly, without even thinking, just go, I analyze situations and go, what happened there?
[00:42:26] Did that happen? I wanted it to happen. No. Okay, why? Okay, how do you know? How can we move forward and make, be the best version of ourselves?
[00:42:35] Cesar: I love that. Those are great questions to ask yourself at any point, even for myself. Right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna borrow that from you. Awesome, Danielle.
[00:42:43] Well, I wanna, wrap up the episode with a rapid fire closing, or I basically, I'll ask you a question and you gimme your top of mind. 32nd answer. Yeah. Ready? Ready? Yeah. All right. one book that has impacted your life.
[00:42:57] Danielle: the Alchemist by Paolo Calo.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] the imaging and, the kind of, the way that it made you my imagination. Think about life thinking that, everybody is on their individual journey trying to get to their treasure, and there's so many different people that come into your life that change the.
[00:43:14] Trajectory of it, and that can happen at any time. And it's just, it gave me the sense of wonder and the sense of adventure about life where I just thought, oh, I quite like the idea that life could go any way I want it to. And that, it can change at any moment, and kind of having the positive outlook that hopefully that will be for the better.
[00:43:30] Cesar: Love it. One of favorite books as well. Alright, next.
[00:43:34] Danielle: Why is your favorite book? Why? I'm interested, why is it your favorite book?
[00:43:38] Cesar: Because of the same reasons, right? it just lets you know that you're ultimately, you're in control of your own adventure. in nobody else.
[00:43:45] and it's Paolo Co, right? So yeah, he's
[00:43:48] Danielle: of amazing books. Yeah. He's one of my favorite ones.
[00:43:50] Cesar: Alright. Second question here. in the last year, any investment in financial or time investments that you've made [00:44:00] that has made a positive
[00:44:01] Danielle: impact? Yeah, so I've made, I've been a premium subscriber to the Customer Success Collective, which I think is really helpful.
[00:44:10] They've got a lot of resources that are, loads of templates, that kind of, especially when you're starting a department from scratch, I've not actually made use of them all, to be honest. I actually quite proud of the fact that I've done everything myself so far. But it's it's almost like a bit of a safety net where I go, okay, I know I've got this.
[00:44:25] also it's given me the ability to kind of meet so many more people in the CS community and have that support network where you feel in that safe space to ask questions and sound bored off.
[00:44:36] Cesar: It's a great community and I've been considering going premium as well, so I think you might just have convinced me to do it.
[00:44:42] Danielle: besides the quote that you have on your LinkedIn profile, is there any other quote or perhaps a mantra that you live your life by? I think the mantra that I, personal mantra that I live my life by is that everyone shines, given the right light in. I really do believe that. And I try and then see, find, if I'm in a situation where I feel [00:45:00] like somebody's, their light's being dam dampened, I try and remove that blocker and help them shine.
[00:45:05] I, that's really sums up my personality. But I think my professional mantra is, engage, engaging the human to retain the client. And I just want to. I want to push the human aspect of customer success wherever possible, I think that when you genuinely build honest, open, and relate and valuable relationships with your clients, that's when you build the retention, right?
[00:45:27] Because people want to go to bat for you, as somebody's not gonna go and want, what if you have a price increase, your client's not gonna wanna go back for you if you've not built a relationship with them. or even if they do leave, you're not gonna get that valuable feedback as to why, truthfully and honestly if you don't have those relationships.
[00:45:42] So I think that's the most valuable thing that, motto that I use in my professional life.
[00:45:48] Cesar: Love that. next question here. one new habit that you are putting in place
[00:45:54] Danielle: Yeah, so daily walks I think is really important. So I think it's really important to get away from your desk, especially [00:46:00] when you work from home.
[00:46:01] I'm very much somebody that can get hyper-focused on a particular task or a particular, day of work even, if I'm really feeling myself and wanting to get something done. And then you get to the end of the day and your back's all hunched over and you realize that you've not left your desk or you've not had lunch or, So I think one thing that I always do is I block out my lunch break and I always take it, even when I don't want to, which is a lot. and I always make sure that I go for a walk at lunchtime. And having a dog definitely helps.
[00:46:27] Cesar: I love that. all right, last question here to wrap up the episode. what advice or takeaway away would you give the audience as it relates to navigating the current uncertainty, in, in the workplace and growing in their career?
[00:46:42] Danielle: there's always industries that are secure, right?
[00:46:46] So if you are in an insecure workplace, or you've lost your job, heart goes out to you, it's a terrible position to be in, but where there's terrible, where there's a bad situation, there's also opportunity. And I think strategically there's definitely some [00:47:00] sectors that are always gonna do okay.
[00:47:02] cyber is one of them. Okay? So maybe think about your sector, but also just know that generally things work out. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, it's all, it's about mindset, isn't it? And things might be terrible now, but think about yourself in a year from now and that personal will probably be okay.
[00:47:19] Cesar: Danielle, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing, with us a bit about your journey, what drives you, your mindsets, and how you navigate your career. It's been awesome just to, I learned a lot from you, so I need time to, to process it myself. but yeah, we know, we love to get you on another episode down the road, just to catch up and see how things are going.
[00:47:38] But, for now, thanks so much.
[00:47:40] Danielle: Thank you, Caesar pleasure. Thank you very much.
[00:47:43]
[00:47:53] all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I [00:48:00] appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you would like to support the podcast.
[00:48:10] Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode.