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Dear Writer, giving and receiving feedback can be hard. Haven't you ever wished you could watch someone else's writing group to see how they do it?
This podcast is focused on just such a writing group. Join authors JC Bybee, Grey Alder, and Tyler Hess as they razz and encourage each other, talk about every writing topic under the sun, and exemplify the subtle art of helping other writers write better.
00;00;00;02 - 00;00;21;19
Unknown
The biggest fantasy sci fi fantasy author right now in the world is Brandon Sanderson. He's been in a writer's group since college. He still uses the same writers group. They don't meet, I think, he said. They don't meet as frequently as they used to. But, he still has his writers group. And, I mean, look at where he's at.
00;00;21;21 - 00;01;00;04
Unknown
And so getting to know your fellow writers, interacting with your fellow writers, is important. It I mean, and especially because we all tend to be introverts. We don't like meeting new people. We don't like getting out there. And so overcoming that natural reluctance is going to be hard.
00;01;00;07 - 00;01;22;17
Unknown
Hey what's up guys? Welcome to the third person POV. The show where we are all, really brain dead because no one apparently got any sleep this week. But lots of progress was made on writing. Hopefully. So you guys will reap the benefits of that. No, no, no progress made even. How are you doing, Jesse? That migraine for you now?
00;01;22;17 - 00;01;44;26
Unknown
It's so freaking great, I love it. Yeah, that's. Yeah, I have migraine brain, so brain fog is a big thing. So if I stare at the camera vacantly, just say my name a few times, I might might come back to reality. And then Adam and I have both been up since 3:00 this morning. I'm sure. Yeah. Help!
00;01;44;28 - 00;02;09;25
Unknown
So this is be great. So, Yeah, that's that's the. The funny thing is, I am a stay at home dad. I don't have a traditional 9 to 5 job. Writing is my job beyond taking care of my kids. And so you guys both have sort of, you're a you do freelance work, right? Tyler and Gray, since.
00;02;09;25 - 00;02;39;27
Unknown
And we're gonna use your pen name, we're going to do as well on the screen. You work, you have a regular job as it were. Yeah. And it's. I think that's important to point out to the listeners that you can be a writer outside of sitting down. Like I get the chance to do for 6 to 8 hours a day and write, and a lot of people should expect to be more like you guys at first, especially.
00;02;39;29 - 00;03;06;25
Unknown
So. Screw you. Jesse. Yeah, I get that a lot. I you know what makes me feel better about my writing? I got. Yeah, that, but part of the reason I don't have the traditional job is because of my migraines. It makes it borderline impossible to hold down a job. So I'm lucky that I get that. That, opportunity.
00;03;06;25 - 00;03;33;21
Unknown
I guess I can say it's despite it being because of a neurological disorder. Yeah. So. Well, you turn that around somewhere. Say you were meant to write, right? Yeah, I gosh, I hope so. So I think what should we talk about? The I mean, are we, I guess we did kind of mentioned in the last episode, but third person POV, that's what we're feeling for our podcast title.
00;03;33;23 - 00;03;53;06
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, we have a title. We have a title. We'll have, we've we've got no, but yeah, we've got the oh yeah, we got the Instagram page. You started that this this week, which is good. So I don't, I haven't checked I don't think anyone's following us yet because we haven't done have. But. Oh you have, I have.
00;03;53;09 - 00;04;11;28
Unknown
Great. You better there. Yeah. I'll have to get an Instagram. Yeah. There you go. I don't know if this face is ready for Instagram, though. That's the nice thing. You don't have to put your face on. I think my Instagram profile picture is currently a picture of my old laptop or something nice. I was like, I tried to look you up.
00;04;11;28 - 00;04;32;01
Unknown
JSI is like, I saw the laptop. I was like, I thought that too, but that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's that's one of those things we also need to talk about is the difference and not. Well, I can't say it's a difference because if you want to be successful as a writer, you have to have a social media presence.
00;04;32;03 - 00;05;00;17
Unknown
The great example I can think of is Brandon Sanderson. He's a traditionally published author. He's one of the biggest authors in the world, and he attributes a lot of his success to being active in his fan communities. He interacts with his fans, and now he has to do that last because he's so big now. But your social media presence and your ability to interact on social media makes a big difference to your overall success.
00;05;00;19 - 00;05;29;22
Unknown
And sometimes it feels overwhelming. It can feel like a huge burden, especially when it's like, well, I got Facebook, I got Instagram, I've got threads, I've got X, you might have a YouTube channel, Myspace. There's a lot to do. My, my, there's there's a lot to do that I have to cover. Yeah. Substack. A blog, but all of those are you got to make sure you find the ones that work for you and then use them.
00;05;29;22 - 00;05;58;09
Unknown
Utilize them? There are a lot of, courses about how to successfully use social media without beyond just like advertising, but making sure that you're creating posts and content that are relevant to what you do as a, as a creator. So something to consider. Absolutely. Go start a podcast. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. Go start a podcast. We say this in our third episode hoping that it's become such.
00;05;58;12 - 00;06;19;15
Unknown
I get it, but hopefully we actually have people listening to us at this point. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Man. Well, shall we get to the roasting? Are we ready? I think so. I think I was first on the blog last time. Yeah, you said you were so I. Yeah, Tyler was first. Last time I was first the time before that.
00;06;19;15 - 00;06;46;03
Unknown
So I think. Gray. You're up. Are you sure? Jake, are you up or am I up? I don't remember, I would rather you be up, but, All right, I could go first. That's fine. Let me have it later. But first, maybe, future Jake here. The section the guys are going through this week from Technomancer is, introduces a new case for Jessica and Eve.
00;06;46;05 - 00;07;20;01
Unknown
I have, minor cases that I introduce throughout the story. Some of them are easy. Some of them are harder. And sometimes they interact with the main case that Jessica and Eve are working on. Sometimes they don't. And this one is just to show that there are other cases in other things that they do as working PCs to try to, earn money because they have bills they have to pay.
00;07;20;03 - 00;07;46;03
Unknown
So this is just another way of showing them that they have lived, that they have other things that they're working on, other cases that they have to do. Again, I apologize for my voice. I, I'm sick. What I as I'm recording this. So, Yeah, I'm a little rough, but, I hope you guys can pick up and learn some stuff from the comments and feedback we give this week.
00;07;46;06 - 00;08;09;18
Unknown
Sweet girl. Great. Let me pull up your doc, and, I can go first if you want. It's it's really fresh in my mind. Yeah. Full, full disclosure, dear listener, I forgot that I needed to read some stuff before, tonight. So I had to text these guys like, hey, can we just be, like, ten minutes late so I can have 20 minutes to read both of them?
00;08;09;18 - 00;08;40;06
Unknown
And I got it done. So, Jesse, as always, I'm. I'm interested in the world. I want to know. There's always things I want to know more of. I guess let's just get straight to the rising. But my biggest critique is I feel like the pacing was in. This could have been my caffeine addled brain as I read it as fast as I humanly could.
00;08;40;09 - 00;09;01;15
Unknown
But I felt like the pacing was a little bit too fast. Like the scenes were too short and there was too much going on. Like, I mean, you didn't give us a massive section this week. It was only 223, 600 words. But there were like four different scenes, which is, which isn't, like, a deal breaker by any chance.
00;09;01;15 - 00;09;24;19
Unknown
But I think you would have gotten more traction if you grabbed on to, you know, 1 or 2 of the scenes and spent more time there. I especially, so with, oh, we didn't do future chases. I'm kind of using two in future JC as my, my signal as I'm going into that, like, huge fissure just two minutes ago.
00;09;24;21 - 00;09;52;16
Unknown
But with the first scene that you that you gave us, and we have this, what's your name? Sonora. Something that another Solis. Yeah. So this, I would I want more so I could realize why this was important. Because otherwise, it kind of feels like a random. And, you know, this is probably honestly realistic. Just a random occurrence in the life.
00;09;52;18 - 00;10;18;12
Unknown
But because it's in your book, I'm going to assume it's important. I just don't. It's just not super clear to me why none that you have to explain anything, but there should be there should be questions. Because I'm assuming this is going to be turned into, turned into something with that. I just the date. The date cracks me up.
00;10;18;14 - 00;10;43;18
Unknown
What was, the, Sorry, the the third day, right? Yeah. Not to. That's what the statue that day date, but. Yeah. So let me throw out the little explanation for those that aren't familiar. I don't use chapters in Collinsworth case files. I use date and time stamps, basically. So when he said date, I was like, you mean the chapter heading?
00;10;43;20 - 00;11;12;27
Unknown
Forgetting completely that the scene in was a the part of the scene was a actual date between two people. Oh, okay. Anyway, but with the the the dinner date, people are specific. I feel like we really need to get a romance writer on here. Because. Yes. I don't think that any of us are really great at this part, because I definitely think there's, there's some tweaks that need to be made.
00;11;12;29 - 00;11;41;21
Unknown
Just, I feel like Darren is really direct and. There could be a little bit more indirection. That's that's not how I want to say it, but hopefully people know what I mean. Interplay. He just gets like straight with it. Like, I want to date you. And I feel like, people, especially people who really like creating romance.
00;11;41;23 - 00;12;04;00
Unknown
Would appreciate a bit of a slow burn maybe. Yeah. So a lot more, a lot more showing, his feelings rather than just getting straight to the point. And again, we are interested in having like guest writers come on this podcast. So if you're listening to this here in our third episode, then and you are a romance writer, hit us up.
00;12;04;02 - 00;12;29;21
Unknown
Yeah. We need your help. Yeah. Badly. Actually, the next the next section I think I'm going to give you actually, goes a little bit more toward Layla's romance. So you get to have your chances to to raise me to, that's a that is side. I like that we are getting the bad guy, presumably the bad guys.
00;12;29;24 - 00;12;49;04
Unknown
Let's read the names. I was like, I don't know who these people are. I might just forget them earlier is they seem like kind of bad guys or at least antagonistic and great. We had the same thing from you today. We got, very villainous. I'll talk about that. Very villainous. Yeah. POV. They see, I still want to frickin know.
00;12;49;04 - 00;13;19;09
Unknown
What does it mean when the natural laws shift? I don't understand. Yeah, it to be honest, I think I need to to to give a better explanation of. I don't think I even give a good one in the main series. So yeah, maybe that's, Yeah, yeah, for sure. Something I get you? Definitely something in your revisions to go and do,
00;13;19;11 - 00;13;45;13
Unknown
Yeah. I don't really have anything too much else to say about that. You know? I'm just. I'm just interested in who these people are, what their connections are, and. Yeah. So there is more awesome. All right. Cool. Admittedly, and I tried to solve this issue before we started recording. My audio dropped out for you discussing, like, the first page.
00;13;45;19 - 00;14;14;04
Unknown
So, sorry, Tyler, I can't copy off of your homework this week. I just yeah, I agree with Tyler and everything. All right, so I guess we'll just take it kind of, section by section there. I don't know why. Speaking of the date, but Jesse has these little, time stamps, if you will, like you mentioned at the beginning of each chapter that are very down to the minute, which is kind of a cool, unique thing to his series.
00;14;14;06 - 00;14;34;08
Unknown
I just now started paying attention to those. I'm just I'm not a numbers guy. I guess I was like, oh, oh, look at that. It's 11:45 a.m.. I should look at the time. Yeah, that's that's on me as a reader. That's not. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. That's the right brained writer coming through or not. Yes, exactly.
00;14;34;09 - 00;14;55;25
Unknown
Save us from ourselves. All right. So this chapter is the, at least for me, a long awaited, romance scene. I was hoping, ever since the secretary for Darren even hinted remotely that, Jessica should pose as his bodyguard. Slash, you know, date like. Yes. Let this happen. Let there be awkward romance. And, that did not disappoint.
00;14;55;27 - 00;15;17;12
Unknown
I don't know how awkward you intended it to be, but I came across that way very okay. We shall get into that. Let's see, I like that. Jessica is kind of talking to herself as she gets ready for this date. I would like to see, because I picture her, like, primping. I don't know, messing with her hair, makeup, whatever.
00;15;17;12 - 00;15;36;03
Unknown
Those things are that attractive people do, I wouldn't know. And other. And that could be an opportunity for show versus tell, I think. And I like the fact that she's kind of having a conversation. Eve is smirking or getting more for human side in this interaction, giving her a hard time there, kind of having a sibling bonding moment.
00;15;36;06 - 00;15;56;12
Unknown
So that's cool. I actually didn't mind. I liked when this, other character shows up out of the blue. I forget her name, describe her as a short Latina woman, and then you kind of change into a Jessica having this interchange in Spanish with her. And that worked well for me. The way that you did it.
00;15;56;14 - 00;16;17;03
Unknown
I kind of view it as, like, a Sherlock Holmes thing where there's, like, the overarching story, and then there's the case of the weak. So in this case, in this chapter, we get some other, I'm assuming, you know, seemingly unrelated case that will, I assume, become related at some point later in the narrative. So I feel like you're kind of making a little bit of a promise here that this will be important.
00;16;17;03 - 00;16;38;28
Unknown
And I'm willing to, to wait for that. I should also mention Jesse. Tyler and I have both been giving you a hard time. Like, I need more action sequences. Is this a superhero movie or not? And you did mention, prior to sending out this chapter for us, is some context behind the scenes that you might cut some of that in, prior to this chapter.
00;16;38;28 - 00;17;06;18
Unknown
So I'm kind of, reserving judgment on that front. Okay. And on to the main events, the romance. So I, I kind of like the, the interplay between Jessica and Darren in the, the not limo, as you specify. That's kind of funny. Let me see if I can find an example. Let's see.
00;17;06;21 - 00;17;27;25
Unknown
Oh, I like the fact that, they kind of ease into it a little bit. Jessica and Darren are both talking about their strategies for meeting at, like, some place like this. Fancy restaurant that they're about to. Jessica, in the context of meeting a confidential source, and, Darren, in the context of meeting a client or potential business partner, like, yeah, you know, people like to feel comfortable, like, do you expect me to talk to them in a back alley?
00;17;27;25 - 00;17;47;14
Unknown
Like, how did you think there's a way out? And they're kind of like, you know, coming at it from from their professional sides and working in towards the person element. So I like that. And I think that's the right approach. Given how bad both of them seem to be at romance, they're definitely going to start, in a very neutral place.
00;17;47;16 - 00;18;10;21
Unknown
I do feel like it did go from 0 to 120 real quick with, putting the hand on the. Was it Darren that grabs Jessica's hand? I believe, yeah. So that for me, I was like, whoa. And he's like, not in so many words. I would like to date you when this is over. I would like this to not just be a contract.
00;18;10;23 - 00;18;35;09
Unknown
So if you were trying to play off the awkward elements, I think you have a strong foundation there. And if you're not, that might be a red flag. Yeah. I felt like that was pretty sudden. Let's see. Even just building up to that, there's a few moments, I'll give you one. Let's see.
00;18;35;11 - 00;18;52;03
Unknown
See, Jessica and Sarah left. I think I like you, Jessica, Sarah said. And this is the the waitress. So you kind of give some character, too, which I thought was cool. I'll let you date them and you kind of give us a little bit of backstory that Sarah is actually a friend of Darren. That's why he feels comfortable coming to this restaurant.
00;18;52;06 - 00;19;16;11
Unknown
Okay, so thanks, Jessica answers. If I need her on him, I'll know who to call. And then Darren kind of says, well, that's it, I'm out of here. And then he like, pretends to get up and leave and oh gosh, that was just so awkward. And like Michael, Scottish, I just I pictured Michael Scott. I don't know if that's was that kind of what you're going for or.
00;19;16;13 - 00;19;39;15
Unknown
I yeah, unfortunately, when I wrote this scene, there were other scenes that I hadn't figured out yet. And now that I figured them out, these scenes are going to make more sense the next time around. I will say that. Yeah, a little bit more of a lead up. Okay. Yeah. Cool.
00;19;39;17 - 00;19;59;13
Unknown
Yeah. When he just jumps to saying, part of the reason I hired you was because I wanted a chance to see you again. I was like, that seems very forward for this, for the character that Darren has, been thus far. So, yeah, I'll take your word for that. You're going to kind of build this up a little bit more, and in which case it might work perfectly.
00;19;59;15 - 00;20;34;14
Unknown
Other than that, yeah. I just feel like it's, pretty strong section, and I'm, looking forward to those action sequences. And Heath. Yeah. Imminently. Any questions for us, Jesse? Good work. Not not particularly on this on this section. This is one I've never been super confident with. Anyway, fortunately, my wife tends to read. I'm not going to say exclusively romance, but she reads a lot of romance, and she she is one of my editors.
00;20;34;14 - 00;21;00;13
Unknown
So, she will be helping me with some of these scenes. Like a reader. Yeah. There's supposed to be, level of awkwardness between the two of them. Again, because of things that will come out later, that you guys will get a chance to read towards the last, like, third of the book. That should to help make some of these scenes make sense.
00;21;00;15 - 00;21;15;17
Unknown
And then I've got to go back through and add some foreshadowing and. Yeah, but yeah, that it honestly, it doesn't surprise me that those came across a little weird because writing them was a little weird. So there's that.
00;21;15;19 - 00;21;45;11
Unknown
No, I don't have yeah, yeah. That's yeah. Nothing. No comments from me this week. I'm good on all that. Thanks for letting us read that. Hey no problem. Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. All right. Shall we move on to me or Tyler while I'm last? Yeah. All right. I'm going to stick by that. You want to start in on them?
00;21;45;14 - 00;22;16;07
Unknown
Yeah, I'll start in. All right, I will say that. So personal preference. So take a take it or leave it. I don't like, the it's like I don't even remember what their huge feature. Adam. Oh, yeah. Future and future. Great writing bots roll out. It's great. Elder here to hit you with some story once again. So I put on my big boy pants this week and submitted two chapters for the guys to evaluate.
00;22;16;09 - 00;22;43;26
Unknown
Here's what you need to know. To begin with, we're sticking with our main POV character Nin. The memory Assassin, as he struggles with extreme sleep deprivation while setting up camp at the edge of the forest alongside his traveling companion, the cheerful but enigmatic chaplain Gil. Fatigue causes Neon's internal anchor atrium to go silent and allows the other rougher personality fragment named stills to briefly seize control of Leon's body, nearly exposing his deception.
00;22;43;26 - 00;23;10;25
Unknown
Dean and Gil share a meal of sausages and foraged ingredients around the campfire, during which Nin back control of his body tries to maintain his military cover while subtly probing Gil's knowledge and attentions. The chapter closes with Nin catching a fleeting glimpse of a supernatural creature called an undulation. Without getting into too many spoilers here, our heroes do survive the encounter with this eerie, floating denizen of the forest, but the encounter leaves Nin feeling a bit rattled.
00;23;10;27 - 00;23;37;06
Unknown
Finally, however, Nin gives way to exhaustion and slips into a fitful sleep, unwittingly sending a faint signal rippling outward along the mysterious mental channel of the mental link, stirring distant forces which begin to take notice of the travelers journey. There. Giving us an intro to this section, and we're back up to the ARG like expression. Exclamations like that.
00;23;37;06 - 00;24;14;10
Unknown
Personally? Yeah, personally, as a reader, I'm not a fan of those, just I hadn't mentioned it before because there were other things I was thinking of. I just that's the thing. Anyway, I like how you emphasized the fact that he's not really got a lot of sleep for two days, because that will mess with your head. And so it makes the rest of the section work for the confusing state that he's in because he's exhausted.
00;24;14;12 - 00;24;53;25
Unknown
Having stayed up, I think my record is 36, 37 hours. That was when I was in high school. So, and I was loopy as heck after 37 hours of no sleep. So two days. Yeah, he it makes this section. It gives context to the section why this section happens, how it flows. So it's it's important and it makes it easier to understand how he would miss things or misinterpret things or everything else.
00;24;53;27 - 00;25;19;06
Unknown
Let's see here. Get a little background on the world, which is nice, talking about the revolution and the separation of the two nations. That felt like it was a good spot to put that in. Didn't feel like it was a big XPO dump. So good on that.
00;25;19;09 - 00;25;45;14
Unknown
I like that stills comes back. A at it. You're asking a lot. You're getting the reader to ask a lot of questions with how this interaction between the personalities work and realizing that the body that we are seeing all of this happen to doesn't even know who they really are. Are they stills? Are they need are they somebody else?
00;25;45;14 - 00;26;13;04
Unknown
Are they somebody else? And so I it it lets us clue in a little bit more on the magic. It lets us know that, this is going to take work for anybody to learn this kind of magic because you, you're going to have to have a lot of training. Let's see here.
00;26;13;06 - 00;26;39;13
Unknown
And I like that when you switch to stills and he takes over, it stills like it's the same. It's the voice, it's the mannerisms, everything. He's there again. I like Gil in this section. He's. He's gone from this sort of smiling, giant, happy go lucky kind of guy to. This is why atrium said he was a threat.
00;26;39;16 - 00;27;11;13
Unknown
And you can see it. So you establish it without it, without him. You know, having to rip some things head off or something like that. It's it's very clear that he's, that he is a threat, that he is dangerous. There were a couple of places where you'd switched from first person switched in the first person, so I highlighted those,
00;27;11;15 - 00;27;36;28
Unknown
Perhaps it would hunt him no longer in Gil's perspective. What? What is hunting him? Great. Now I have to read more. Excellent. Good job. So you're. Like I said, you're asking a lot of questions in this section, and it's getting the reader to go. I need to know the answers to the questions. There were a couple of places, and this might just be migraine, brain speaking.
00;27;37;00 - 00;28;00;16
Unknown
So there were a couple a couple of places where I had to go back and reread to follow along. But I think just an editor will be better suited to help you make sure that this is flowing. And it's not confusion. Seeing.
00;28;00;18 - 00;28;06;05
Unknown
Oh, I like that. The, the creature.
00;28;06;07 - 00;28;37;05
Unknown
It's cloak sways in the wind and there's no wind. Great way of establishing creepiness is when unnatural things happen in subtle ways. When the natural laws shift. Yes. I will work on it, I promise. But it's it's like the opposite of the fades from the Wheel of Time. You know, if there's a wind blowing, their cloak is always still this one.
00;28;37;05 - 00;29;05;14
Unknown
It's got a moving cloak. There's no wind. It's that creep factor that works really, really well. So I threw in a piece of advice where you you reference the name of the creature being from the old tongue. And I again, I've given lectures on this. Make sure that is in a reference document somewhere so you can keep your terminology consistent.
00;29;05;17 - 00;29;42;04
Unknown
And you'll remember this means this. So not only does it apply to the creature consistently, but maybe it shows up somewhere else to show and it stays consistent. So as a, as a as an important thing to remember that I did do nothing really. Let's see here.
00;29;42;06 - 00;30;12;09
Unknown
And then we get to the, the the the monster, the the thing at the end of the. The at the end of this section is Niles. Niles as in nihilistic kind of that way you're going for it's it's sort of that you feel without. Yeah. That's.
00;30;12;12 - 00;30;39;25
Unknown
Yeah. I like that section. I like the, the feel of that. I will say, overall, this section feels a little less polished than the rest of you. What you've given us. But again, a good editor will help you with that, right, Tyler? For sure. But it it keeps the story going. Like, overall, you're still on track with the story.
00;30;39;25 - 00;31;10;18
Unknown
You're still giving us information while also making us ask for more information and want to find more information. Just, I mean, tightening up some sentences and some structure. Yeah, that'll happen as you work on it. Overall. Great job. You're still keeping us interested, Tyler. Yeah. Maybe this is Jake's migraine brain versus my, super fast reading, but I actually had the opposite opinion.
00;31;10;18 - 00;31;34;13
Unknown
I felt like there were less things in this section that kicked me out. So that felt more polished to me. Maybe I need to read again. Maybe Jake needs to really get in, that we can give you better opinions. But yeah, I really liked it. Really? Like. I mean, we're always talking about world, but I feel like I love the the tradition about camping on the green.
00;31;34;16 - 00;31;58;09
Unknown
That was really cool. Making the world feel real. Learning more about bronze wood, learning more about, the forest. Definitely getting, like, light, vibes. I think we talked about eye of the world last time or the time before that. Definitely get in that kind of feel for it with, especially when you're talking about like the trees being corrupted.
00;31;58;11 - 00;32;29;20
Unknown
Which might be something that might, you know, is that all right about that? Yes and no. I, I get a little poetic sometimes with my verbiage. So it may not be a literal corruption in every single sense, but yeah, the overall feel like the other name for the forest, the tangled man. I really like that. Still's coming back, having him like, compared to in the in made me like still's less in a good way.
00;32;29;23 - 00;32;48;17
Unknown
Like it feels like we're seeing him because we're kind of seeing him from an outside perspective. Ish compared to what we were seeing him from before. He just seems like an A-hole and but it's like a funny or, you know, so I really like that. The one thing, like I said, there's really only one thing that kicked me out.
00;32;48;18 - 00;33;12;08
Unknown
It's kind of more of a pet peeve of mine, when Gil draws his knife and is like, taking a step towards the traveler. It's a pet peeve of mine is when people draw their weapons without real intent because I felt like he was just like, oh, should I trust this guy? Seeing. But I didn't think he was actually going to kill him.
00;33;12;08 - 00;33;32;01
Unknown
Maybe he was. But the way it was described, the way I took it, it didn't feel like he was really, drawing with intent. And I think that's kind of, a trope like it's it's kind of like, oh, look at me. I'm cool, dude. I'm drawing my sword and drawing like, whatever. In real life, if you do that, you're you're gonna kill somebody.
00;33;32;01 - 00;34;04;03
Unknown
Like, you're, you're you're not doing it just to be showy. Because there's, there's, consequences. Right? And I think even if neon sees the knife and there'd be words, there'd be something going on. I felt like that. That was. Went by too smoothly, if that makes sense. Like, the thought about having more than one name keeps you from being cursed.
00;34;04;04 - 00;34;31;18
Unknown
That feels very, bad. Whether or not that's superstition, because I kind of felt like superstition at some point, but then later on, it felt like it was a real thing. So whatever direction that goes, that's the good bit of worldbuilding. Very interested in this bad guy that we're being introduced to. Both. Both, Dula and, and the guy there at the very end, the, the the new as the nails person.
00;34;31;18 - 00;35;04;00
Unknown
So lots of cool things going on. Lots of questions. Yeah, I do have a question, though. Maybe we'll leave it for there. Something you don't want to explain right now, but yeah, really, really good stuff in. Cool, cool. Appreciate that. Gosh, I'm trying to think of a specific question. I know Jessie, you mentioned the fact that, there the narrative continues to pose a lot of questions, even as it answers a few.
00;35;04;02 - 00;35;29;00
Unknown
Is it, it's not getting to be too much. Is it, like, too much? Kind of where the mystery just blurs into confusion? I would say no, at this juncture, if if you weren't offering the answers that you're offering as we go along, I would say, yeah, you're asking too many questions and not giving enough information, but you're giving us enough information.
00;35;29;00 - 00;35;57;22
Unknown
You're answering other questions and posing new ones. And to me, having read lots of fantasy books, that fits the flow. It fits the, the way fantasy tends to go. I think if you go back to reading the first read, the first four chapters of The Eye of the world, and how many questions do you have? Or the first four chapters of Mistborn, even, you know, how many questions are there in Mistborn?
00;35;57;22 - 00;36;22;14
Unknown
In the first four attack, the Prolog. The Prolog is just one big question with a couple of answers. And so you're you're on the right track. As long as we start getting answers within the next couple of sections and maybe a few last questions, I think you're going to be fine. Unless, of course, this is meant to be, you know, Sanderson esque tome.
00;36;22;17 - 00;36;25;07
Unknown
I think you're fine.
00;36;25;10 - 00;36;45;18
Unknown
Okay. And and I like that. You've kind of set me up to be kind of the inexperienced point of view character, so it makes sense that that Gill is going to be explaining things to them. Because, you know, the need is very good in his sphere. But not in others. And we have a lot of questions about the others.
00;36;45;20 - 00;37;08;00
Unknown
So that's going to be really good. Cool. Yeah, I kind of wanted to cheat and make it like a half fish out of water character. So it's almost literally half depending on who he is. And what the what's going on? Cool. Let's see. Oh, and then, who are we sponsored today by, Jesse. So, Doctor Shasta.
00;37;08;03 - 00;37;28;21
Unknown
No, today it's monster. It's my. It's my go to when I have a migraine. Let me tell you. Who's that on the cover? Is that, like, Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Now? It's this one's, the cover that it's called Bad Apple. It's an apple juice. One. If you need an energy drink and you like apple juice, I really recommend it.
00;37;28;21 - 00;37;59;08
Unknown
It's really good. I stay away from, I don't want to be in a caffeine addict. I see too many of those at my work. But. Sorry. I was going to mention that. No, the, It's funny that you keep running into, like, the random, like, first person POV switch. Because I think I mentioned somewhere, I was stitching together, like, some pieces of a previous draft, and I was experimenting with, first person in that one.
00;37;59;10 - 00;38;20;18
Unknown
And so I'm trying to go through and scrub that and, like, bring those two drafts together, you know? But every now and again, I just little pieces fall by the wayside. So that's what that is. Yeah. I kind of figured it was something along those lines. I did the same thing, with my first hero unit. I initially started it in first person and then switched.
00;38;20;21 - 00;38;50;11
Unknown
So I know how that goes. Yeah. And you can't just do a search for I. Yeah, that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, is that everybody. Are we done for the for the episode. Yeah. If you don't have any. You wish. Oh in 30 minutes it'll be talking about. So I have to say there's a short episode.
00;38;50;13 - 00;38;59;01
Unknown
Honestly. That'll be okay though. Yeah, yeah.
00;38;59;03 - 00;39;22;20
Unknown
Hello. Hello, future Tyler here, here to give you context on this week's section, I gave the guys two scenes today. The first scene starts right after the last scene that we started, last week. They're going to talk a little bit up about the name that we're in. Here's it. Is Ed's name. He just found out that his aunt died to close the portal two very 15 years ago.
00;39;22;23 - 00;39;41;10
Unknown
And of the main premise of my book is that there used to be a portal to very. Now there isn't closed. Now the bad guys are trying to open it. Okay, guys, try to keep closed. So he is he's kind of shocked by this revelation. And he leaves the Scooby Gang and then. And he's just trying to get some space.
00;39;41;10 - 00;40;02;03
Unknown
Layla, the kind of love interest goes after him and tries to get him to stay. So they're really trying to get him involved in their efforts to keep the gate closed. But he's kind of he just doesn't want to be involved essentially, at this point. The next scene, fast forward a couple days. He is leaving school.
00;40;02;03 - 00;40;23;19
Unknown
And Sheriff Bradley, it's kind of one of the main antagonists of of this book picks him up. Not in the like in the wrestling kind of way, but just in the way that he wants to talk to him and, he's found the body of the hound that weren't killed. I think like a week and a half ago at this point.
00;40;23;22 - 00;40;48;28
Unknown
Or it killed the hound on accident, by the way. And again, context, if you're new to this, hounds are basically these feral, crazed humans that are in the woods right now. They're connected to the Wild Hunt and they're, they're they're bad news. So Warren goes and talks to Sheriff Bradley, and he learns a little bit more about Bradley, in that Sheriff Bradley was also all too close the portal with his.
00;40;48;28 - 00;41;17;18
Unknown
And he was part of that whole old guard taking care of business back in the day kind of deal. But now he's wanted to open up the portal because there are bad things in the woods. He thinks that they need allies from from the other side, from fairy, to be able to combat the bad things in the woods other than the the remnants of the Wild Hunt that are still in the woods and he and he and Warren, they don't that they don't agree.
00;41;17;18 - 00;41;41;28
Unknown
They fight. Then they able to come to a kind of understanding and yeah, that's about this weeks. Thanks guys. You want to stay safe with this going gray? Yeah. Sounds good. Let me pull that up. Okay. Where we. It's all right. We got a Warren POV chapter, and, I read this towards the beginning of the week, so fresh in my memory here.
00;41;42;01 - 00;42;11;23
Unknown
You know, again, I wasn't fast enough for you. So where are we at? The second half started saying I was like the pit of despair. That pit. Nice. I mean, yeah, kind of, Yeah, we'll get to that. Okay. So, overall great stuff as always. Right when you open. Granted, it has been a week since we, you know, read your stuff for the preceding chapter, but I feel like it's worth noting.
00;42;11;25 - 00;42;37;04
Unknown
So this this chapter opens up with Warren started. The name seems to ring in his ears, familiar and alien at the same time, which is a great sense, but I was trying to remember what was the name from the last page of the previous chapter, and, I feel like even if you are the reader and you're reading the final draft of this and you flip the page, it's I don't know, it doesn't really cost you anything to repeat that name, especially if it's going to be significant.
00;42;37;07 - 00;43;07;20
Unknown
Which turns out it is, right. But yeah, it bears repeating. Cool. Let's see. I continue to enjoy these little quiet moments that Warren has that kind of make this juxtaposition between, the crazy paranormal stuff that he comes at in and out of and then regular small town life, like cars driving down the street, it being a quiet Sunday afternoon, you know, which a quiet Sunday afternoon isn't something you're going to get in Chicago where he's from.
00;43;07;20 - 00;43;34;14
Unknown
That's that's also unique to, the feel, the texture of this little town. As weird as it is, it's also a small town. So, those little details that you keep peppering in are certainly nice. Let's see. I enjoy the fact that, Warren is legging it, booking it out of, the meeting that he just came from, but he'll stop for, Layla of all people, right?
00;43;34;14 - 00;43;59;10
Unknown
Of course she. Yeah. And you're like, oh, I can so relate to that. If it was, if it was AJ or Luke following, he might get, a fist to the gut, but it's a Layla, so he'll stop. So that's kind of neat. And, I feel like you've used this one little detail about Layla many times, but the the single strand of hair that's out of place that falls on her face.
00;43;59;12 - 00;44;18;18
Unknown
I think you've used that many times. Anyway, it's one more little detail that, a red blooded young teenager like Warren or any man you know, would notice. And I like how you kind of, I don't realize that was like a Chekhov's gun in a weird way, because Warren finally gets to brush the strand of hair back as a sort of, like, comforting gesture.
00;44;18;21 - 00;44;38;06
Unknown
And that's a really cool, you know, he could say, hey, baby, everything's going to be all right. Or he could just brush this strand of hair away. And that feels so much more powerful in their interaction, and it feels like a promise of things to come to, you know, like, you wouldn't just do that. Obviously, he's got the hots for,
00;44;38;09 - 00;45;04;11
Unknown
I assume at least. All right, let's see. I find a there's another line interesting. Just kind of getting into Warren's head. Warren has this line that says, I just want to take care of myself, my mom, and occasionally you guys, although I'd rather avoid it. I love how Warren has added the Scooby Gang to the his list of priorities that he wants to protect, and I don't know if he realizes that he's done it or he's still trying to walk it back.
00;45;04;11 - 00;45;31;08
Unknown
Like I'd rather avoid it. I don't really want to care about you guys. So that's kind of neat. He's definitely experiencing growth and definitely trying to fight it. Okay, so when he and Layla were talking and, Warren tells, Layla not to quote Edmund Burke at her before she even says the line, for evil to triumph, it's only necessary for good men to do nothing.
00;45;31;10 - 00;45;55;04
Unknown
And she's referring to the Holocaust, which is a really great line, really powerful applies here. Totally. I feel like it may be a bit of an assumption that your readership knows that line before you explicitly stated, I don't feel like it would be too on the nose to to just come out with a line first before Warren throws up his hands and says, don't you know, show that down my face.
00;45;55;04 - 00;46;26;12
Unknown
Don't quote Edmund Burke to me. Curious to get Jake's thoughts on that, but just a little thing. Yeah. Yeah. Love that scene. Okay. And then getting into the next scene, which gets us back into conflict. So Warren's at school, he's successfully avoiding the rest of the Scooby gang. He's kind of trying to get back to homeostasis, like trying to ignore all the weird stuff, keeping his head down, trying to be the good boy.
00;46;26;15 - 00;46;52;02
Unknown
And then the the sheriff pops up, Bradley pops up, and we're like, oh, shoot, this is how he gets drawn back in. Gosh, for anyone listening, almost don't want to, like, accidentally spoil any part of this because it's such an interesting encounter. The fact that, Bradley, you know, already knows about the body. You know, the hound that Warren had an encounter with, chapters ago.
00;46;52;04 - 00;47;10;29
Unknown
That's cool. And the fact that Warren's smart enough to not try and lie to him, his internal reasoning kicks in and is like, this is going to look so much worse if I don't just come clean even. It's to this douchebag sheriff that I do not trust as far as I can throw. Which you continue to emphasize, he has a great book, so obviously no one's going to be throwing Bradley anywhere.
00;47;11;02 - 00;47;33;03
Unknown
A nice little kind of, one of those little Darth Vader cheats. Like, make them big, make them intimidating, you know, psychologically, you know, psych out the reader. So you continue to do that. But, so I like that Warren continues to be a smart character. I like his little tete a tete with, with Bradley, because they both kind of had this thought of like, I'd rather not be interacting with you.
00;47;33;03 - 00;47;55;03
Unknown
You'd rather not be talking to me. But we got stuff to talk about. And then he brings him to the morgue and it's like, oh, cool. This is going to get creepy, you know, to, to look at the, the body of the hound. A few little notes here and there about, like, description. You mentioned the smell of sterile decay.
00;47;55;05 - 00;48;20;18
Unknown
And normally I compliment you for your perfect use of the five senses. Here, though, I feel like sterile decay may hit for some folks and not for others. I had to stop and think for a second, like, oh, is that, what's that chemical that they use? Formaldehyde. Like, what is that smell exactly? I don't know if there's a way around, familiarity with that or if there's any better way to describe it, but just something to consider.
00;48;20;21 - 00;48;44;03
Unknown
Cool, cool, cool. Yeah. And then, the conversation with Bradley, which quite naturally escalates into a physical encounter, is awesome. I like the fact that, I like the fact that that happens. You, it's almost like you find an excuse for violence to happen. I know it's not the case. It feels natural for those two characters, given their backgrounds, to just like, you know, we're done talking this out.
00;48;44;03 - 00;49;10;18
Unknown
We're going to fight this out. Even as Warren is just continuing to try to do the right thing and not fight, he constantly finds himself, in, in fisticuffs, which is which is cool. And then just kind of, that cliffhanger that you leave us on towards the end of the chapter with Bradley implying that Warren needs to go, with his son into the forest to check out this thing that you won't believe.
00;49;10;18 - 00;49;34;19
Unknown
I can't tell you on this page, because you're just going to have to go see it to believe it. And okay, that's cool. I'm also a huge fan, just generally of, erstwhile enemies working together for the greater good trope and all the cool like characterization that gets to come out or as a result of that. So I'm really looking forward to the next chapter with, Riley and Warren, getting to work together, quote unquote.
00;49;34;22 - 00;50;01;10
Unknown
Yeah. A lot of good, continued, world building, going on in this chapter, more explanations that we're we're slowly getting fed. So overall, great job. Thank you very much. I didn't realize I used, the strand of Layla's hair so, so much. I like it. Okay. I hope it's not too much.
00;50;01;13 - 00;50;32;22
Unknown
But you got JK. So I think I agree with, gray about the, and I know it's probably a, editing cliche that you could just start off the very first two words are the name that he's reacting to and then go into it. I think his response is, is Warren? It's a Warren response. Like he's he gets he he accepts it.
00;50;32;22 - 00;51;10;18
Unknown
But at the same time, I don't want this. I need to be the good kid to stop worrying. Mom. And that stays consistent. That's his consistent motivation. And I like that. And I like that AJ is not giving up on him. He keeps wanting Warren to be there, knowing he needs Warren to be there because Warren can fight.
00;51;10;21 - 00;51;44;29
Unknown
I like the the paragraph where he's he's thinking about Lila and talking about the light in her eyes, you know, comparing her to Joan of Arc. All of a sudden it's like, okay, we're getting a little bit more of one. How she comes across to Warren and to that, it really is kind of her personality that she is she is sees herself as this potential protector, somebody that wants to help, somebody that wants to get involved.
00;51;45;01 - 00;52;08;18
Unknown
So I like I like that. I think that was a good detail. I think my migraine brain was hitting me hard on this one, or I was just really enjoying what you were writing. I didn't actually have a lot in the next section. I will say I liked that when when the sheriff shows up, he doesn't say to son Warren, it's Mr. Roberts.
00;52;08;21 - 00;52;38;21
Unknown
It sets a different tone for Mr. Henderson. Yeah, I think it sets a different tone. Like he's not trying to be friendly. He's not trying to be overly patronizing. He's addressing this kid in a way that sets a tone of, of it's different because, a lot of a lot of stories, especially the teen ones. When an authority figure approaches a kid, it's I'm just trying to be your friend or you're just a kid.
00;52;38;23 - 00;53;02;05
Unknown
This isn't that. And I like that. It's a different it's a different approach. But it also lets me know that Bradley's after something. Clearly, you know, he's not just coming to talk to Warren to harass him. He wants something. And he's not. I mean, as much as he is a jerk, he's he's not stupid.
00;53;02;07 - 00;53;20;01
Unknown
I like the back and forth he comes across. Like, I don't like Bradley as a character. You're not supposed to him. As a kid, I was waiting for you to say that, Jesse. I knew you were going to say that today, but. But the thing about it is, is he comes across as a genuine human being in this one.
00;53;20;01 - 00;53;42;08
Unknown
He's not like a mustache twirling villain. He has motivations, he has reasons behind his motivations. And he's not out here to make Warren's life miserable. He's just after answers and he's after he wants to know. He wants he wants to do things. He thinks he's right. I mean, the cliche, cliche line is the hero or the villain is the hero of his own story.
00;53;42;11 - 00;54;16;17
Unknown
You know, Bradley views himself as the hero, or at least the person that is willing to do what's necessary to fix the problem. Let's see, like I like gray pointed out, Warren's not stupid. Like he doesn't try to lie. The cliche again, I, I talk about cliches all the time because I've read a lot of Japanese manga and tend to be the slice of life ones, and they lie to authority figures all the time, even if they know it's not going to work.
00;54;16;19 - 00;54;35;19
Unknown
And it drives me nuts because not every kid is just going to outright lie to their their authority figures. Warren's not stupid. He has the background experience with his dad being a cop. He knows and so he acts accordingly, fits his character, fits the story, works really well, and is a completely different take than what a lot of writer writers would take.
00;54;35;21 - 00;55;05;13
Unknown
So good on you on that, that, that that, like I said, I didn't have a lot of, like specific comments for this. The one thing I will say is that I think Warren needs just a little bit more motivation to why he's willing to ask questions and get information from Bradley that he wouldn't necessarily have asked to man in the Scooby Gang, as you refer to them.
00;55;05;15 - 00;55;28;17
Unknown
It like I kind of get the idea of what he's going what you're going for. I think just a little bit more of an overt this is why I'm doing it. This is why he's doing it will help make this, this conversation feel like it fits a lot better because it's a great it's a great interaction. It's a great conversation.
00;55;28;19 - 00;55;47;02
Unknown
But we go from Warren saying, I don't want to know more to people that he likes and trusts to. Okay, I'm going to ask Bradley these questions, even though he might not like or trust him.
00;55;47;04 - 00;56;11;25
Unknown
And again, it could that could be migraine brain missing some things. I think that's a good point, actually. Yeah. Something I've been struggling with, with, with that particular scene. Yeah. And I like. Right there was a spot where it was it,
00;56;11;28 - 00;56;38;25
Unknown
Like right after he, like, right after they go into the office or right in that area, there's a spot that it's like you can add the comment right here that Warren sees this as an opportunity to get honest answers because Nam, she's been sort of forthcoming. But at the same time, she has said a couple of times, you guys just don't need to know that you're not old enough yet, you know?
00;56;38;28 - 00;57;20;04
Unknown
And so if he thinks Bradley is going to answer his questions, then it makes sense that he says, okay, now we're going to talk. Let's see where I, again, the the conversation itself. Great. Love the flow. Love the information we're getting. I called a couple of things on this. Just so you know, mentally, I'm not going to say what for the listeners who might want to not be spoiled, but, it you give enough hints that the aware reader is going to pick up on them, and this is going to be like, yeah, I guessed it right.
00;57;20;06 - 00;57;40;00
Unknown
And the reader that is reading just a little too fast is going to be like, wow, that's not it. So good job. I'm curious your foreshadowing worked. I'm not sure what you're talking about. I read your comment. I, like you guys, have picked up on stuff that I, I didn't actually like, mean for it to be, but it was a thing.
00;57;40;00 - 00;57;59;18
Unknown
It just wasn't, you know, kind of, you know, maybe we'll talk about this as a point, but not everything that we put into our books is super intentional. A lot of it is kind of our intuition acting through us. Yeah. The importance of Warren and his family is, is what I'm referencing. I picked up on the potential for that earlier.
00;57;59;20 - 00;58;25;16
Unknown
Gotcha. And and to have it answered here. So if that was intentional, good job. If it wasn't good job anyway because this because it feels like it set the story. It feels like it was supposed to be there and it was the right answer. Then I like that Bradley has logical reasons for what he's doing. He's not just like initially.
00;58;25;16 - 00;58;45;13
Unknown
I mean, there could be more to it, but he doesn't feel like I'm just after power. I just want to be the hero. I just want to be in charge. Like, no, no, no, there are people that are suffering and I think this will end it. So, and then hopefully later we'll get, Nan or Stan's view on everything.
00;58;45;13 - 00;59;16;09
Unknown
So again, that's true. Yeah. There's more sides to the story. You know, I feel like I see Bradley in a more sympathetic light since he showed up to, you know, Save the Gang. Towards the end of it, you know, was it the previous chapter from the writer? So that makes this exchange more interesting because so, like, okay, how sympathetic is he and how much of my original view of Bradley should still be intact?
00;59;16;11 - 00;59;41;00
Unknown
I will say that, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead. I will say that the, the fight between him and Warren, it's it helped firmly plant him back in. I hate this guy. Just it's just so, you know, this I was about to say, just to kind of go off that early is like Bradley started to become more sympathetic than I ever been.
00;59;41;00 - 01;00;18;09
Unknown
Tend to be. So. And then he was. I I'm glad I put him back. Where. Yeah. I originally made to be. Yeah. Like he. And the thing is, is after watching some of his interactions, I get the kind of character he's supposed to be. And so even as as we're watching this, conversation play out and he's trying to come across as sympathetic in the back of my mind, I'm wondering what are his ulterior motives, what what is he actually trying to achieve beyond what he says?
01;00;18;12 - 01;00;44;01
Unknown
And that's the character that you've established. I don't view him as somebody that that is taking that the approach of, I just want to be the hero. There's something else there motivating it. And when he says real magic, that was kind of like, okay, either he doesn't understand or he thinks he understands better than than because she said that humans can't use real magic.
01;00;44;03 - 01;01;03;20
Unknown
So it's it's it's interesting. You're you're giving us multiple points of view. The fight was really well done, well written.
01;01;03;22 - 01;01;09;02
Unknown
Is it,
01;01;09;04 - 01;01;39;09
Unknown
I like it also, that in one point Bradley defends his son. But at the same time recognizes he's got limitations he knows he needs. He's not like he's not the perfect angel. He knows that. That his son is is in need of assistance. He's a blunt instrument. Is is how I would refer to him as, like. Yeah.
01;01;39;09 - 01;02;10;05
Unknown
Like I said, there's not a lot of comments in that section. Otherwise, yeah. Good. Good work, good writing, good story. I actually got finished and leaned back in house and, and talked to my wife about how sometimes reading your guys's work makes me sit back and think, am I a good writer? I definitely think that to. So good work this week, because you made me ask that question.
01;02;10;08 - 01;02;33;22
Unknown
It just it really worked this week. So you are you are a good writer. I appreciate that, but what I said, I wonder that too, about myself. I'm an actress, Daisy. Actually, a good. Yeah. Okay. What you meant. Don't worry, she said. Actually, I know he's published a lot of books, but is he actually. Does he know he has a ghostwriter?
01;02;33;26 - 01;02;56;18
Unknown
Yeah. Somebody else. There's no way he's writing his wife. Right? So that's what it is. Oh, on that front, there is a section. I got two towards the end of Technomancer that I was like, Crystal, can you come write this for me? Because it was a scene that I was it was way outside of my comfort zone. That she should she took care of that for me.
01;02;56;18 - 01;03;20;17
Unknown
She wrote about a paragraph and a half for very nice, nice, cool. So I have a couple questions. And I'm probably just going to give them a random order, because that's where my brain is right now. That's fine. The end of the first scene, I'm a little bit worried that it ends too abruptly. What was your guys's impression of that?
01;03;20;20 - 01;03;29;29
Unknown
Let me go back to the.
01;03;30;01 - 01;03;52;27
Unknown
I think that ends perfectly, because the the strand of hair that I'm going to continue to obsess over the fact that he brushes that away. Fade to black. I like that. Yeah. No, I think it's a good transition because because of the emotional state that Warren's in, it is it should be an abrupt end. It shouldn't be a lingering end.
01;03;52;27 - 01;04;21;20
Unknown
It shouldn't reminisce. He's in a keyed up emotional state. It should it should end. I think it's a good transition personally. Yeah. Good deal. Sometimes I feel like I'm writing my characters to be too smart, especially Warren and AJ. I feel like they're sometimes they're coming across as more intelligent than your average 16 year old. No offense.
01;04;21;20 - 01;04;39;06
Unknown
Any 16 year olds love you. Like like with the Edmund Burke quote. Like, I don't think I knew who had been Burke was when I was 16. That was a much later in life. AJ picks up on a lot of things much faster than I think most teenagers would. What has been your guys's impression so far?
01;04;39;06 - 01;05;01;05
Unknown
Maybe something else. Okay, kind of keep in mind. Yeah. Keep, I think he serves as a good contrast. I knew guys that, you know, I, I was fairly smart as a 16 year old. I'm not saying I was a valedictorian or anything, but I knew guys that they just picked up on things. They were faster on the uptake.
01;05;01;07 - 01;05;23;07
Unknown
I he doesn't feel out of place to me. He feels like he's just that guy that's a little bit more mature for his age. He's a little bit faster on the uptake. And to me, Warren's upbringing justifies a lot of how he acts. Just the rough life that he's kind of had personally. Great. What do you think I would agree with that?
01;05;23;09 - 01;05;51;25
Unknown
I think use those two examples of AJ and Warren being the standout characters that may be smarter than they're supposed to be. AJ seems Booksmart and, lower smart or magic smart like he seems tapped in because of his family and and, which would make sense. And then Jake already point out the fact that Warren's background, gives him a legitimate reason for why he would he would, assess everything that the way the way that he does.
01;05;51;28 - 01;06;11;26
Unknown
And I'll just add to that, I think that, these characters wouldn't be as interesting if they were average. I think you have Lila and Luke both feel pretty average. They both feel like they should for their age. You know, Lila being more mature than Luke? For sure. He feels like the the age that he should be.
01;06;11;29 - 01;06;31;22
Unknown
And so the contrast between those normie characters, I guess you call them, and the other two and the rest of the weird stuff. I don't know, it works for me. You, though. Maybe. Maybe keep my kids especially, like, I'm thinking about what I've read in the last couple weeks. With AJ, I was like, is that too fast?
01;06;31;25 - 01;06;52;08
Unknown
I mean, the Edmund Burke thing, that may be a bit much. I don't know, maybe that's not a line that Lila would know. Maybe she isn't the one to throw that in Warren's face. Because it does actually feel more like something that AJ would mention, if Warren gave him the time of day. At this point in the narrative, you know.
01;06;52;11 - 01;07;18;12
Unknown
No, that's a good point. On that, I think. I think you'll get away with it if, for Lila, if you want to keep it with her. Anyway, if you give her a bit of a connection to the Holocaust unit. Why? Why did that stick with her specifically? And then that gives her a reason to throw that quote out there.
01;07;18;15 - 01;07;38;20
Unknown
And I'm not going to get. I'm not saying you have to say that she had, like, a direct connection to the Holocaust. Maybe it's just something that she can relate to. But again, it's it's. No, that's. Yeah, that's a really good point. That might have been a better, one to give when I'm in Lila's head.
01;07;38;20 - 01;08;01;00
Unknown
Which next scene? Lila's POV. Finally. Nice, but you guys enjoy it. Maybe I had to think about because I definitely want Lauren to be worked on from multiple angles. Like he's the rock hero. Everyone's trying to get him to be involved separately. Good doesn't like, doesn't care.
01;08;01;03 - 01;08;23;15
Unknown
I will say this. It would be it would be interesting if Luke actually became. And I think, again, it's your story. Do whatever the heck you want. It would be interesting if Luke became the linchpin that finally got Warren to do something, you know, because it almost felt like that in the last chapter where Luke knows they're doing something just absolutely stupid going out into the woods.
01;08;23;17 - 01;08;52;13
Unknown
He's got a baseball bat and he's just he's going because he knows if he doesn't, Lila's going to be out there by herself. And I think that opens him up to later helping Warren come to that realization again. Just a thought. I don't know if you've what you're what you're doing with it or not. It's again. I mean, that's kind of his whole character arc in my mind for, for this book.
01;08;52;16 - 01;09;14;02
Unknown
And I'm struggling to make it natural. I was going to have the scene with Bradley. I wasn't going to have Bradley blackmail him. But then as I was writing that scene, I was like, I don't think Warren would react well to blackmail. Look, this is someone that would, be susceptible. So I tried to, but yeah, I think you guys both picked up on something I've been struggling with, with that scene in particular.
01;09;14;02 - 01;09;35;29
Unknown
Like, why is he said that kind of flipping a switch? And I didn't want it to feel like flipping a switch. So it's something in the working world. Yeah. I think those are the questions I have, you know, appreciate you also. Yeah. No problem. And good work, both of you. This week.
01;09;36;02 - 01;10;07;17
Unknown
You two minutes. You are a good writer. I that thing that says. Yeah about imposter, about fluctuating back and forth between. I am the greatest thing since carrot cake and and I am an imposter. That is so true. I absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, especially with all the indie authors that are out there. There's so many of us, and you pick up some and it's like, oh, maybe I'm not.
01;10;07;20 - 01;10;30;19
Unknown
Maybe I need to go back and revise that one again. And then you pick up others and you're like, okay, I do it, all right. No shade to my fellow indie authors. It's just, you know, everybody's at a different stage in their writing career, and not everybody can afford, you know, a top tier editor or not. Everybody thinks they need an editor when, in fact, they do.
01;10;30;21 - 01;10;56;03
Unknown
So it's that way again, people might wonder, why are we doing a writers group? Well, this is why this is why we do a writers group, because we need that that feedback. Not just not just the, the critiques, but also the, the constructive or the uplifting of saying, yeah, no, this is good. It needs some tweaks.
01;10;56;03 - 01;11;20;18
Unknown
Yes, obviously, but it's good. You know, you're on the right track, you're going the right direction. You know? So yeah. So, brings us to the question we were wanting to talk about. Yeah, that's a perfect segue. Yes. Because you just said Conscious Planet. No. Two tire tracks. I don't think any of us are smart enough to have that for this.
01;11;20;20 - 01;11;46;08
Unknown
Oh, man. But we're saying, you know, sorry. You go ahead. Great. Go for it, Tyler. Whichever is is still awake, you know. Yeah. It's not going to be my favorite. Favorite. But I was saying it's a writing individual, obviously. Unless you're co-writing. But even when you're co-writing, you're not, you know, say shoulder and shoulder to shoulder, shoulder to shoulder and writing at the same time.
01;11;46;08 - 01;12;09;14
Unknown
But we wanted to talk about, why is it important to connect with other people, whether that's in the small group setting, like what we're doing through or like going to conferences. So I guess the the big thing is, so I was a I was a solo writer for the longest time. I had a writer's group.
01;12;09;17 - 01;12;40;29
Unknown
But neither of them were interested in being published. They liked writing. They wanted to get better at writing, but they weren't. They weren't out to be published. And so their help was useful but limited. And so when I got out, you know, I moved to Idaho. I had nobody. And then, then I got the rare opportunity to go to a writers conference, and I was like, okay, I need to go to more of these.
01;12;40;29 - 01;13;10;05
Unknown
And I went to that writer's conference again, there, like writer's conferences. Where is the is the one and the second time. And so the 1 in 2025 I like or not or Tyler and Gray. Sorry. I'm going to get this guy. Tyler and Gray were there and they, it was Tyler, actually, that approached me about the idea of being in a writer's group and thanks to at the time, we were just using discord.
01;13;10;08 - 01;13;47;10
Unknown
But thanks to the internet and the ability to, you know, connect online was a huge opportunity. And so to put it into perspective, I've been working on Technomancer for four years, I think, and I was stuck on it. But as soon as these guys started giving me feedback and I started getting their perspectives on the on the story and seeing the questions that I couldn't see anymore that needed answers, all of the sudden, I had the answers.
01;13;47;13 - 01;14;16;25
Unknown
And again, we've referenced this before. I wrote 26,000 words in five days. They both wanted to slap that out there. They just they both wanted to slap me for it. But it it's in in a week. I got farther than I had in the previous five years because I was getting feedback from other writers. And so these in-person events make all the difference.
01;14;16;28 - 01;14;39;18
Unknown
You make connections, you get feedback, you learn, you get different perspectives. That's my take on it. What about you guys? What do you think? Yeah, I'll say for me, similar. JK where I was, I kind of had this passion for writing for, for a long time. And I, you know, you struggle when you try to work and do things on your own.
01;14;39;18 - 01;15;00;12
Unknown
It's it's sort of like when you make a New Year's resolution to go to the gym. So no, nobody can relate to, and if you, you can do that on your own strength for about a month. Right. But if you don't have that accountability, it's pretty challenging in and of yourself to keep doing things consistently. And so it's it's nice to have somebody else help you along.
01;15;00;14 - 01;15;17;19
Unknown
I know, funny story for me, I was actually working on a mountain in the middle of nowhere at a summer camp, a year round summer camp. And I was like, man, I really need to get serious about writing. But I'm so focused on work, and I'm not going to drive an hour into town to try to find a writer's group.
01;15;17;26 - 01;15;35;04
Unknown
I don't know, is that something that's even nearby? And then in my lap falls this writer's conference that happens to book at our, facility, like, well, I have no excuse. Now, I, I'm going to attend this thing. So so I did, and that was kind of the kick in the pants that I needed initially. So like, okay, get out there.
01;15;35;04 - 01;15;55;20
Unknown
And the word network is scary. But, you know, making allies or friends, that's not so much. Right. That's just interpersonal connection. And if you have something in common writing something to talk about. Right. And, you know, I didn't like that conference make a whole lot of really close friends and allies. That was a while back and in a different state.
01;15;55;20 - 01;16;19;27
Unknown
But, you know, you pick yourself up and you, you meet people by consistently keeping yourself in that world. Going to a couple of conferences in person is always great. So you can get a feel for people. And then eventually, you know, I met these two guys, and I don't know if, I guess we'll give Tyler credit, but I feel like I was about to suggest it, like, hey, we should do a writers group.
01;16;20;00 - 01;16;42;04
Unknown
Let's you grab that bearded guy. Yeah. I just gave that excellent presentation about world building. Yeah, that's kind of the story. And, yeah, there's so many advantages to that. What about you, Tyler? Yeah, I, I completely agree with what you're saying. For me, talking about the Bear Lake, writers conference that we all met, which is really good.
01;16;42;10 - 01;17;09;14
Unknown
And you guys list your listeners. If you live in the area, you should go. So, I personally, I went with ulterior motives. Like, I didn't really expect to get too much out of, the presentations, which I did. I did do, but when you think about I'm going to go off on three different tangents here, I apologize, guys, when you think about the world of writers education, there is such high quality stuff out there like, you know, Brandon Sanderson has his freaking college course lectures online.
01;17;09;16 - 01;17;29;05
Unknown
And so many of the best selling authors have their own writing podcast where they actually teach you about writing. It's part of why we, at least my idea for this podcast wasn't just to talk about writing, it was to show show writers group and and the skill of giving and receiving feedback, which is kind of really difficult.
01;17;29;08 - 01;17;44;03
Unknown
So I went with the literary moves. I went with a bunch of business cards this year, I think I gave you guys, I'm sure, to give you one, two that I was like, let me hear that. Your book. Let me, let me read your book. And and I'll tell you right now, nobody's contacted me. If I didn't think of the book from that.
01;17;44;05 - 01;18;02;20
Unknown
But it was awesome because, like, I got to the writers conference and I was there a little bit early and and so I said, if you've for a few minutes, like are few minutes after it was, the doors are open. So I wasn't like, I'd be the first awkward person. It's like, and I was, I was right behind gray.
01;18;02;26 - 01;18;24;23
Unknown
And for those of you who are not tall and male, there is an instant connection when there is another tall guy. So we got to chatting. We sat together in the in the auditorium with, with, with the opening, what do they call opening ceremony? Something. And we were just chatting and, you know, JC was there sitting somewhere else.
01;18;24;23 - 01;18;48;00
Unknown
And then, we both went to his, his presentation, which, like gray, say, was really, really good and gave him the business card. Okay. You mentioned he didn't have an editor for your last book saying, I can help you out. And then, you know, just chatting and then. Yeah, like I just mentioned the the degree right before, like, I, I believe you agree that was right before.
01;18;48;00 - 01;19;07;14
Unknown
You're about to suggest, okay, we should do any good. Hey, we should get JC in there I think. Good. And then it just kind of all fell together and we had a great vibe and we had our first several sessions not recorded. You know, this was before we even had the thought of of starting the podcast. And it's been been really, really good.
01;19;07;14 - 01;19;23;07
Unknown
And, we do a lot of different things with our, with our age group. Obviously this is the, a really big part of it, but that daily word count accountability like I was talking about is really, really important. Like, I don't feel guilty for the last two weeks because I'm editing my book. I'm not writing at all.
01;19;23;07 - 01;19;39;16
Unknown
And I'm kind of in that boat. When I was in the writing process and I'd go a couple days without writing, I feel like I like, and not that you guys would like, get on my case too much, but I did feel like I needed to step up because I was talking to you guys every day about how much I treated.
01;19;39;16 - 01;20;06;22
Unknown
So really, really good, really, really important. Obviously, you know, maybe a writer's group would work for every author I know. Stephen King is, like, against them. But I think for 98% of them, of us writers, it can be really, really, really powerful. Yes, most of us aren't Stephen King. Yeah. And that's the like that's the funny thing.
01;20;06;25 - 01;20;29;19
Unknown
To to reference the biggest fantasy and sci fi fantasy author right now in the world is Brandon Sanderson. He's been in a writer's group since college. He still uses the same writers group they don't meet. I think he said they don't meet as frequently as they used to. But, he still has his writers group, and, I mean, look at where he's at.
01;20;29;22 - 01;20;57;13
Unknown
And so getting to know your fellow writers, interacting with your fellow writers, is important. It, I mean, and especially because we all tend to be introverts, we don't like meeting new people. We don't like getting out there. And so overcoming that natural reluctance is going to be hard. But there are a lot of, small writer's conferences out there, like Bear Lake.
01;20;57;15 - 01;21;29;19
Unknown
Bear Lake is not a big writer's conference. It's a single day. It's in a Oregon Trail museum, so it doesn't cost a lot of money. The hardest part for me is it's on the other side of the state. So it's a bit of a drive. And then there's the Eagle Mountain Writer's Conference. Down in Utah that I will be presenting at, as a subtle hint up there, just throwing it out there.
01;21;29;22 - 01;21;54;07
Unknown
It's also another smaller one, and the smaller writer's conferences are that much more accessible. It gives you the opportunity to meet people, and then you've got the huge ones like Story Con, which what I love to go to story Con. Yes, absolutely. Do I think I will in the near future? Absolutely not. I don't have that kind of money.
01;21;54;09 - 01;22;26;07
Unknown
So you don't have to feel pressured to go right into something big. Find a small one. I almost guarantee there's a local writer's group or a local writers conference just about everywhere. I know there's not actually one in the Boise area anymore, which is sad. I'm considering if we get enough interest in the podcast and start generating some, interest that way, I might we might start I might start forcing these guys to help me put one together.
01;22;26;09 - 01;22;46;29
Unknown
That's an idea. Yeah, because there used to be one out here, and I learned from, one of the presenters at Bear Lake. He used to go to it, and they're not doing it anymore. For whatever reason. I don't know. So. Yeah. Get out there and meet. Meet other writers and go to your local library and see if there's a writer's group.
01;22;47;02 - 01;23;07;20
Unknown
Put up a flier, say, hey, looking to meet fellow writers? You need it. You need that feedback. You need that extra help. And if somebody like, well, you write fantasy, but I write romance doesn't work. Never, never. No, it never work. No, but they will. You there was. Oh, there's always going to be something they can offer.
01;23;07;22 - 01;23;47;09
Unknown
It was really interesting when I was teaching that world building class, all of the various people that were represented and in what they were writing and the questions I got and the and trying to help people understand the, the, the how world building works, because that can be such an intimidating concept for some people. So yeah, it it's I guess the like Tyler said, that's important, getting to meet your fellow writers, interacting with them in person, face to face, in, you know, flesh space is or less space meets meat.
01;23;47;14 - 01;24;09;00
Unknown
Meat space is the the term I've I've heard people referencing it to is important. It will help your career. It will help you as a writer. And don't be intimidated just because we're six feet tall and we look like male models, doesn't mean you can't approach as, yeah, I'm the short one at six one in this group.
01;24;09;00 - 01;24;21;12
Unknown
So that is not something. Yeah, that is something I'm not used to feeling as short. So I think.
01;24;21;14 - 01;24;46;19
Unknown
I think that covers that question. Again, if you guys, listeners, dear listeners, are interested in asking or having a question, answered, we will probably not have it set up yet, but we will probably be getting a Patreon set up where you can submit questions that will that will answer and feature at the end of an episode or at the beginning of an episode.
01;24;46;21 - 01;25;02;11
Unknown
Because we want to know what you guys. I mean, on top of just showing you what it's like to be in a writer's group, we also want to give a little bit of advice here and there, and if we know what people are having questions about, then we can answer them. We're pretty good. We try. We're the best of the best.
01;25;02;13 - 01;25;25;12
Unknown
Yeah. Like, one of the. Yeah, one of the one of the things I do want to start making sure we're, we're addressing a little bit more, as we go through is, is the importance of knowing how to be in a writer's group. Like, you see that we have a pretty good rapport going on. We've talked, we talked, we give feedback, we give criticism, but we also take it.
01;25;25;12 - 01;25;47;02
Unknown
You notice that when we're giving each other criticism, generally speaking, the person receiving the criticisms mouth is closed. Unless they're getting a direct question. And that's something we can talk about in a later episode. I don't want to give everything away right now. Yeah. So come back later. If you keep your ego out of it when you get, yes, giving and receiving feedback.
01;25;47;03 - 01;26;06;13
Unknown
Yes. It's something I'm trying to teach my my creative writing is huge, right now. Is is how important that is. And it's also really difficult. And they're not very good at it yet. No. Yes. It's something you created. I was about to say you're creative, right. Is students ages are usually what they're, I have like 13 to 18 year olds.
01;26;06;20 - 01;26;27;00
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Ego out for teenagers is not going to be easy. Yeah. We're just dumping on teenagers. This episode, but kind of kind of the main problem. This is a lot of, this is a lot of rage problems is that they're too nice when they're giving feedback. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like these guys are too nice to me.
01;26;27;00 - 01;26;48;20
Unknown
Like, I wish they'd be pointing out more of my flaws, so I wish there was more to point out. It make me. Yeah. Well, to be honest, I've pointed out one of your flaws enough that I think I don't need to berate you on it. Every single I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is true. That, like, you have to be willing to.
01;26;48;23 - 01;27;09;12
Unknown
And, you know, like, sometimes I'm a little bit worried when I'm like, okay, I this is something I want to talk about or these guys, but I think I take it and you guys always take it really well at it. If you frame constructive feedback, they actually criticism in a kind way, it's gonna be fine. So maybe be mean, but don't be mean.
01;27;09;14 - 01;27;38;15
Unknown
Yeah. Being mean. Yeah. Establish a line of emotional credit first before you make that withdrawal. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's a big thing. And again circling this back to the original question, meeting somebody in person is starts establishing that like I met Tyler, I met gray, I talked to him. They were in one of my classes. I got a good impression from both of them before we even actually had a conversation.
01;27;38;17 - 01;28;12;29
Unknown
It helped. Just randomly throwing up a message on Facebook, hey, you want to be in my writers group is going to be potentially devastating because either hey, nobody's going to answer or be the people that answer, you're not going to have that emotional line of credit, and it's going to make it harder. So. Again, so yeah, if you're local to Idaho or Utah, there's the Bear Lake Writers Conference.
01;28;12;29 - 01;28;44;11
Unknown
It's every October, and then the Eagle Mountain Writers Conference is in March. And yes, I will be presenting at the one in Eagle Mountain, just so you know. But it's it's it's a great opportunity. They're not big conferences. But there's enough people there that and enough good presentations that it's worth a big name and it's worth going to.
01;28;44;14 - 01;29;08;17
Unknown
Yeah, but I think the the principle remains, you could be in Florida right now listening to this or. Okay, you could not be in the continental United States listening to this. Right. But the principle remains, you know, find find your people, go local and, and you can always do something like this after the fact. But, yeah, I don't think you'll be disappointed getting yourself out there.
01;29;08;19 - 01;29;29;24
Unknown
Cool, cool. Does that kind of, wrap things up? Any other thoughts on that question, guys, I think that some that we haven't been good about is plug in what they should go do. You guys should. Dear listener, you should go check out Gray's Substack at Great Alder or something like that. Yep, yep I agree older check out check out here unit.
01;29;29;24 - 01;29;50;20
Unknown
Check out all of Jesse's books. The many many books he has. Yes. Hopefully soon to be available at Barnes and Noble. Yeah. The, for me, I'm kind of opening up my book for better readers right now. As I'm editing it. If you have a book that you want edited, it hit me up to talk about it.
01;29;50;23 - 01;30;15;09
Unknown
And, yeah, go write something. All right. Awkward silence. Yeah. Oh, what was I going to say? That's another question we could address. Maybe next time. Better readers. Dangerous. What are they and why do you need them? Something to look forward to. Something to look forward to. Yes. Okay.