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Welcome to the Raising Up Fathers Podcast. We are here to champion men to thrive in their four main roles: son, husband, father, and brother.
Through testimonies and best practices. Our goal is to help you look a little more like Jesus in the areas that matter the most. Our vision is to raise up ten thousand fathers in the name of Jesus. You can find out more at raisingupfathers.com
If what you heard today encouraged you, please share it with a friend.
Welcome to the Raising Up Fathers podcast. We are here to champion men to thrive in their four main roles as son, husband, father, and brother. Through testimonies and best practices, our goal is to help you look a little bit more like Jesus in the areas that matter the most. Our vision is to raise up 10,000 fathers in the name of Jesus. You can find out more at raisingupfathers.com.
Zach:Alright. Welcome to the 10,000 fathers podcast. This is your boy, Zach Garza. I'm here with, dare I say, best friend? Can I say that?
Ben:Can I say one of
Zach:my best friends? I don't know. Absolutely. I don't know how to say that without one, sounding like I'm six years old, but two, hurting other people's feelings.
Ben:Exactly. Exactly. You're absolutely one of my best friends, and there are others.
Zach:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good.
Zach:Good. Good.
Ben:But I think I'll talk to you more than I've talked to any any other friend. So That works?
Zach:That's That works. So Ben and I, we, I was up in Nashville last week, and we're just kinda talking, catching up. And Ben hit me with a zinger. He said, hey, man. I think I wanna start a podcast.
Zach:And I was like, well, dude, I've been wanting to do a 10,000 fathers podcast, so why don't we just do this? And then we talked about it, and bam, here we are. So how
Ben:are you feeling, Ben? I'm feeling hopeful and and wondering if I have what it takes to do a podcast. If the wedding doesn't work out, we know it's because of me because your podcasts are great.
Zach:Oh, wow. Thanks, man. Okay. So so so why don't you just tell me, Ben, what is going through your mind? What's going what's what's in your heart whenever we're like, hey.
Zach:Let's do a podcast on 10,000 fathers.
Ben:Yeah. I I mean, I just so want people to, especially I would say men, to be able to live fully in their roles as son, husband, father, and brother. And I believe that when we are walking in in fullness in those things, we are walking in all of them better than we would be if we if we didn't. And it takes I mean, it's clunky. It's clunky for me.
Ben:It's clunky for for everyone, but it I feel like I I just want like, even on this podcast, I'm I'm I'm hoping that just us sharing stories with each other and having a conversation that, it allows us and others who who might listen to to do just that, to walk to live fully in these roles. So yeah. And, man, like, I don't
Zach:know about you, but as I've gotten older, you know, I'm in my early forties, 40 two, baby. Got my Jackie Robinson ear. Man, it is just hard. Like, life life is so much harder than I thought it would be. And it's kinda on every front.
Zach:It's like, I, you know, I love my wife. We have a fantastic marriage, but marriage is hard. You know? I love my kids. Being a parent is hard.
Zach:Being a dad is hard. Trying to provide, trying to work, trying to do all of these things, trying to follow Jesus. Right? And that's why 10,000 fathers exist is one to say, hey. It's okay.
Zach:It's okay that it's hard, but let's put a finger in your chest and say you can do it. You have what it takes to be a son, to be a godly husband, to be a godly father, but, man, you need brothers. You need men surrounding you who are gonna champion you, who are gonna encourage you to become all that God has for you. And so, and I have a bunch of guys who I talk to often who there is no way that I would be here today if it wasn't for them. Just, you know, just a bunch of dudes who I can call, who I can text.
Zach:Hey, man. Having a hard time. Hey, man. I just got in, you know, I just got in in a fight with Sarah. And, I need prayer.
Zach:I need wisdom or I need encouragement. And so so excited to be able to do that today with you, Ben. So That's so good.
Ben:Yeah. And I'll just add to that. I I recall that my brother, my older brother, in high school when he kinda came back around and started walking with the Lord, he started praying for me. I didn't know this until years later. And, my mom shared that with me and I went to Cliff and said, hey.
Ben:Thank you so much for praying for me. He said, yeah. I looked at you, Ben, and I knew that whatever you are, you're very. And so you're either going to very go crazy and be, you know, go into the things that that would not be good or you're going to very much follow the lord with all your heart. And, man, if it wasn't for literal brothers and spiritual brothers, I had several key friends, also spiritual fathers.
Ben:I absolutely would not be where I am today. So, yeah, thank you, Zach, for teeing that up, and thank you for being one of those brothers who puts his finger in my chest and says, snap out of it, man.
Zach:Okay. So kind of our main four pillars of 10,000 fathers of trying to raise up 10,000 fathers is sonship, husband, father, and brother. And today, what we're gonna focus in on is we're gonna talk about the topic of sonship because from my perspective, this is the one that makes everything else go. There's no way that you can do what God has called you to do, be the man that God has called you to be unless you're walking in sonship with him. And so and so Ben Mann, just like I can remember when I first started to follow Jesus, people would say these words that I had no idea.
Zach:And someone said, hey, man. How's he going with your sonship? And I'm just like, what the heck are you talking about? Like, that is such like a weird word. But why don't you share with us just your like, how how you see sonship?
Zach:What is it?
Ben:Yeah. That's good. So I mean, I'll I'll out of the gate, I'll say none of these things, like, I haven't mastered any of them. And and I would say sonship may be the one that that I have mastered the least, but I do believe it is the most important and the strong and the most, yeah, the most important of the four pillars. But how how do I see it?
Ben:I mean, our our whole view of you know, our whole belief system revolves around us being adopted as sons along with Jesus, along with, you know, Jesus calls calls us brothers, says that he's our older brother, and, you know, adopted as sons. And so, like, our our identity from a scripture from a biblical standpoint is that we are our father's children. And we're not his servants necessarily. I mean, we there's certainly passages in scripture that talk about servanthood and and bond servant to to to Messiah, but but the the whole position and the importance of sonship comes from this fact of, like, if we don't understand that our position to the father is sons, then we are otherwise orphans. We are otherwise, you know, illegitimate children or we're just wanderers on this earth trying to live the best life we can and which is super empty.
Ben:And so when we talk about sonship, we're talking about our primary relationship to the father and how we do that as sons. Not as slaves, not as robots, but but he created us and and gave us the the free will to love him back and and see ourselves as sons. So that's what we're talking about.
Zach:Is does that answer your question at all? Yes, man. For sure. And and and I think it's so interesting, Ben, because everything in this world will try to get you to think that it's about you, that it's about your performance, it's about how you act, it's about what you have, what you can do. And sonship is the exact opposite of that.
Zach:It is I love you for you, not for what you can do. Mhmm. And so often in, you know, in my walk with Christ, and I I just wanna perform for him. I wanna do all the right things so that I can earn my right standing, and it is absolutely mind blowing. And I didn't really understand it until I became a father.
Zach:What unconditional love looks like, what security like, knowing that I am wrapped up in the arms of a father and I am safe and I am good and I am loved. I didn't know what that was like, and I still been. I still have to work on that each and every day because sonship is not about performance. It's it's about walking with God. Just like in the Garden of Eden.
Zach:Right? Like, we walk hand in hand with God in in the night, and it's about his presence. It's about relationship. It's about him saying, I love you, and I'm here for you. This is my son with whom I'm well pleased.
Zach:And my position as as a part of this family. I have a seat at the table. And I think one thing, Ben, is you talked about what is our position. Right? And so one, one kind of thing that I would really like to ask you is, how does sonship impact how you see God and how you see yourself, and what did those perspectives look like before sonship?
Ben:Yeah. Well, you know, I love what you said about performance based. I mean, I'm I'm certainly I I struggle with that even even after even post sonship revelation. You know, I'm I'm but to answer your question, I feel like when I'm walking in sonship with the Lord, I'm I feel whether regardless of my performance, I can I feel a a sense of value and confidence? When I'm walking in sonship with the Lord, I can be honest with him.
Ben:And when I say honest with him, I'm talking like I can pour out my complaint to him about whatever is going on. I you know, when I'm walking in sonship, I I have a a sense of hope and a sense of abundance, which gives me peace. I'm a more peaceful more peaceful person to be around. And and so there is a there is an innate confidence that comes when you realize that that you are loved and there's nothing you can do about it. And I didn't really like I I still still have areas where I struggle in in in sonship for sure, but I didn't I the biggest leap I got in in sonship came from when I was a when I became a father.
Ben:And it was like, you know, was I proud of my child when she did something, you know, amazing? Absolutely. But when when she she does amazing things, the greater emotion is, I'm excited for her to grow in confidence in herself. And to see herself the way I see her because I think she's awesome. I think all my children are amazing.
Ben:And so that's I mean, that was probably the biggest time that I grew in sonship. It's still to this day one of my barometers for for sonship is even being able to look at my children and go, oh, man, the way I love them and I'm evil, you know, is is so unconditional. And so I know that I have this value, this place of value with the Lord and it does affect, it gives me that peace that we're talking about. It gives me that confidence to try new things. It gives me the ability to take risks, you know, because I I know that I, that I'm loved.
Ben:And if I fail, I'm I can run to my dad and and tell him about it. And so
Zach:Man Yeah. Like, I think that that's so good then because, like, I just got done watching the it was like a little series on Amazon Prime. You know? It's called the house of David.
Ben:Yeah. And Such a good mood.
Zach:And I loved seeing the sons of king Saul. And as I'm watching this, I am just like, man, what would it be like to be the son of a king? Right? And if I take that and I insert it into sonship, like, man, I I am the son of a king. Like, there is there is nothing that I can't do because my dad's got my back.
Zach:I can I can take risks? I can feel secure. I can be confident, not necessarily because of what I can do, but because of who has my back. Right? But that's that's not how I saw myself for so long.
Zach:And if I don't spend time with the Lord, if I'm not surrounded by men who can remind me of this, then I will see myself in the wrong way. I will see myself like a, you know, like a like a kid who grew up and didn't have a dad around. I mean, that's that's how I saw myself for so long, you know, as an orphan, as someone who had to fight to get what he needed, as someone who had to show that he had value, that he had worth, someone who had to do anything that he could do for attention and for affirmation and for acceptance, and I had to earn it. It was on me. If if I didn't do it, it was not going to happen.
Zach:I was in charge of my life, and I was the master of my ship. And that's the opposite of sunshit. Now does does sunshit mean that we can just chill and sit back and not? No. In fact, I have found that it does it it pours gasoline on my giftings and on all of my talents because now I I wanna do things that I know in my flesh I can't do on my own.
Zach:And I am walking with God and saying, Lord, I don't know how I'm gonna do this, but I know that you can make a way. That's right. That's right. You know, it's it's so that's so true, Zach. I'm glad you said that.
Zach:I was
Ben:though, you know, if we are sons of our father, then we have his DNA in us. And so there is an internal drive to to do things, to to to do great things and to be great. And and that's a God given trait or or piece of our DNA that and and I was just having lunch today with a friend of mine, and I was sharing, you know, the the area that I'm trying to grow in the most is is sonship right now with and because I've what I've realized actually is I realized that my position is a son with the Lord, and and that I'm I'm good. My biggest problem in this moment is that I then become my my my own biggest judge. So I'm like, yeah, I know I'm good with the Lord.
Ben:I know that he loves me no matter what I do and what I don't what what I don't accomplish, what I fail at or or succeed at. I know he loves me the same. The problem is once I back out from that, I'm like, yeah, but I don't feel great about myself When I don't before when he it was funny. He called me to. He's like, well, you know what?
Ben:Romans one, god says, you know, they he gave them over to their sins. So, this this this whole thing is like, I can continue to strive. I can continue to try to compare myself. I can continue to try to perform for me. I'm not trying to perform for him at this moment, but I'm trying to perform for me, or or I can rest in confidence of who I am and the value that I have.
Ben:And from that place, have a passion to chain to to bring transformation and walk in that in confidence. So anyway, I love what you're saying because it it does drive us. There is a drive that we have that is god given to do great things.
Zach:So, Ben, just like whenever I think of whenever I'm not walking in censorship. Right? Whenever I some people call it the orphan spirit. It is it is a couple main things. Right?
Zach:It is fear, which leads to control, and then it is me striving. Like, I I run at a pace that is unsustainable. I have I I just go. Go. Go.
Zach:Go. Go. Or it's the opposite. I'm just apathetic. I'm lazy.
Zach:I am man, nothing matters. Woe is me. Right? But when you get with the Lord and when you sit in his presence, right, one thing that I love about whenever Jesus got baptized is, you know, Jesus got baptized, heaven's opened up, here comes the dove, here is my son whom I love with whom I'm well pleased, and that was before he started his ministry.
Ben:Mhmm.
Zach:He hadn't done anything yet. And so whenever I'm walking in sonship, I can operate out of a place, not of fear, but of faith. Not out of control, but out of release and surrender, and not out of striving, but out of a healthy peace. Just it's a good pace, and it, it changes everything, Ben. It it changes how I work.
Zach:It changes my anxiety and all of my stress. It changes how I parent. It changes my marriage. And, man, I am a different man whenever I am walking in sonship, but we have to fight for it because it does not come easily because this world is designed to get us to think the opposite.
Ben:Yeah. I love that, Zach. Like, so Jesus starts with like, his whole ministry starts with an an affirmation from his father. And from that place, he was able to turn the world upside down. And you said it right, like the world is designed to come against this sonship.
Ben:And really what it is is it's our broken fathers and mothers and people, and and we are broken fathers that are going to actually arm and do the same make the same judgment on our own children, unfortunately. And and it's part of our clunkiness and it's part of why we have to surrender our children to the Lord. And and and we also have to quickly turn and repent and tell that like repent to them. And so that so that they don't make the same judgments about themselves, but it does. It comes from that from that place.
Ben:And so our because we have broken parents and because people are broken in our lives, we come to the world first having to perform. And so there is this kind of this dance of like, I still have to live my life, but I also have to be repaired. I have to have my own heart repaired from the Lord. And so, yeah, when all those things are are correct. When you're walking in sonship, like you have all those things when you're when you're not.
Ben:And when I'm not, I'm just telling you the fruit of the spirit goes right right out the window. I'm naturally very impatient, and and I'm not gentle. And and, you know, I do try to con you know, when I'm not walking out of in sonship, I'm walking in scarcity. You know? I'm I'm I'm afraid that I have to protect myself.
Ben:I'm it's all up to me. This is every it's gonna fail if I don't if I don't make it happen. You know, even with people like people, you know, when I'm when I'm in ministry, it's like, oh, it if I don't do that something, it's just this there's like a savior complex. It's it's almost like if we don't have the Lord in our lives, you know, at in in the correct position as a father, then we become God and and father. And it becomes and it's up to us, and we're never gonna have enough or be enough or be like him enough to to hold everything in our lives together.
Ben:So it really does it does come apart. And and yeah. I'm I'm not in a good place when I'm walking when I'm when I'm striving and not walking in sonship.
Zach:And then, like, I'm gonna talk to the person if if they've never heard of this word or if they kinda have no idea what the heck we're talking about. Right? Like, where where do we begin? How how did you get introduced to Sunship? And what are the things if someone came and said, hey, man.
Zach:I I'm new to this. Tell me how to do it. Tell me how to Darrow. What are some things that you might say?
Ben:Well, I and I I'm hoping that you're gonna respond to the same question when this is when this is over because I I grew up in the church and and kind of heard the concept of sonship a lot, and I could I could even regurgitate the answer before I actually knew, you know, and and experienced it in myself. I knew what it was I knew what I I knew what sonship was supposed to be, and I and and I was kind of one of those, you know, yes, I believe that until I realized that I my actions should. I didn't. But but, you know, I would I would say and and there's been layers. Like, I I was thinking about this question earlier just like when did I come into the knowledge of sonship?
Ben:And it's like, I I I don't know when the first time was, but it honestly has been layers and layers. And like I said earlier, you know, there was a huge layer when I had children. And and I'll I'll tell you a story real quick that answers the question of how can I grow? There's there's lots of ways. Obviously, I encourage people to look at the look at the word, read read your bible.
Ben:It talks about that. But honestly, the the most impactful things that have influenced sonship in me is a discipline of taking time of quieting my mind, my soul, and taking time to to ask the Lord questions and and wait and write down whatever comes to mind from that stand from from that place. There were there's been several times where I've, you know, I've I've recognized some, you know, really unhealthy tendencies tendencies in me lose losing my temper with my children or different you you know, just just kind of extreme fear that that that reveals itself in rage or or hyper controlling, you know, stuff. And and so there's been some times where I'm like, okay. I know there's something here.
Ben:Let me take a walk down memory lane and ask the Lord to come into that into that place and speak to it. And, man, I've had I've had extraordinary there's one time, this is about fifteen years ago, I was in a quiet time at night. I I just was I was quiet before the Lord. I had worship music playing, and I just began to remember I was dealing dealing with a lot of fear at the time. And I started to think about when was the first time I felt afraid.
Ben:And you know, grew up in a wonderful family, God fearing parents, but a father who is who is loses temper and and he was physically abusive. And so we were there was a time where we were taken out of the home, parents were separated. And there was this moment where I was going to see my dad for the first time. He was staying at a elder's at one of the elder's homes. And I remember the elder was an older person and the house was dark, and I was walking up the stairs.
Ben:And I was just thinking, like, this was the first time I remember feeling like real fear of like, I don't know I don't know what I'm gonna see. What am I gonna see when I get to the top of the stairs? Is my dad gonna be angry that we left? Is he gonna is he gonna what what's what is going to be? And it was it was the amount of uncertainty was paralyzing.
Ben:And as I was thinking to that and listening, this is worship music in the background, I could feel I I had this, like, in my imagination, this picture of Jesus walking with his hand on my back and weeping like that this was my experience and this was my reality. And man, the amount of healing that I felt it was like my I mean, I literally my body shook when I was having this. I wasn't crying, my body was shaking because I was it was like a knife pulled out of my heart, you know, and and just the amount of relief I felt that, man, was with my my father was with me when I was terribly afraid of my dad. And that was a huge moment. I've had several of them since then.
Ben:You know, one I might share here in a little bit, but but one of my answers and one of my encouragements is to take some time to to quiet yourself and ask the word questions or go down memory lane about when you've been afraid or when you've when you felt whatever you're feeling, you know, right now invite Jesus into that. I would say another big one. So again, scripture is huge. This quiet quieting your soul is huge. Another big one is is brothers.
Ben:It's so helpful to sit with brothers and share. I mean, again, I just had lunch with one that was like, you just were in Nashville last week, and it's like, your brothers have a different vantage point than you on your life. And and likewise, when I'm encouraging one of my brothers who's struggling with sonship or anything, I can see God's heart for them better than I see it for myself. And so sometimes it's like you're sharing, and you're like, oh, man. That's actually how he feels about me.
Ben:Woah. Why don't I get that? You know? So there's a a few examples. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that too, Zach.
Zach:Yeah, man. I I mean, I just think it's so good to be surrounded with with men who can push you back, who can re remind you of not just who you are as a son and in the call on your life and all of the good things that they see, but also who God is. Right? Because such a big part of of sonship is seeing God rightly. And if we don't believe, if we don't trust that God is good, if we don't trust that God is for us, not against us, if we don't believe that he has a plan for his lot, for our life, that everything that we experience can be turned to good, even the bad.
Zach:If we don't believe that, then that's gonna mess with our sonship. And I forget that so often because my my circumstances that the enemy will use my circumstances to say he's not for you. He's not against you. Right? And so, man, it is it's so vital to be surrounded with men who say, hey, man.
Zach:Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.
Zach:Don't forget who god is. Don't forget that he's for you, not against you. Don't forget that that he's good. And, man, I would say for for me, not knowing what sonship was, I had to have a guide. Mhmm.
Zach:I had to have someone disciple me. And I I truly do believe that if you're not in a discipleship relationship, if you don't have someone discipling you, that's a miss. And I don't care how old you are. I don't care how smart you are. It's always better to submit to someone and say, hey.
Zach:Teach me your ways. You have something that I want. Mhmm. And then take what god has taught you. Take what you have learned and poured into someone else.
Zach:So go therefore and make disciples. And just I am I am always at my best when someone's investing into me, and then I'm investing into someone else. And that really does help my sonship because the person who's discipling me, they're encouraging me. I'm surrounded by men. They're encouraging me.
Zach:Hey. See God rightly. This is who you are. You're a man of God. You have what it takes.
Zach:Be strong and don't be afraid. And then I get to go teach it to other men, and I get to say to them, hey. You're a man of God. I am so proud of you. And every time I speak that to them, I'm I'm speaking it to my soul.
Zach:Every time I submit to someone who's investing, I'm I'm investing into my soul. Right? Yeah. And so and just like I mean, two of us both know Steve Allen and Papa Don Finto and just, like, so many men have taught me with their words, but shown me with their actions what it looks I mean, you know, we talk about Steve. He has ALS, and he still still believes that God is good, and that is an encouragement to me.
Zach:And that, like, if he believes, then I man, then, like, the things that I am facing today, well, they aren't anything Right. Compared to that. And so, man and and and then just, like, it was so helpful. Right? Like, you said earlier, when you walk in sonship, you have the ability to risk.
Zach:You have the ability. And, man, walking in faith, like, faith, it's impossible to please God. So are are we as men of God living a life to where we're completely screwed if God doesn't show up? Yep. Are are we tangibly walking in faith?
Zach:And I think of guys like Abraham. And I think about guys like Noah. I think about guys like Moses. They did not have the facts. They walked by faith.
Zach:Yeah. I'm I'm sure all of their friends were like, what is Abraham's going off to a distant land. He's what's he doing with Isaac up there? You know? There's Noah built a a boat before there was rain.
Zach:Like and so, like, god shows us over and over and over that he uses imperfect people who are honest with him just like what you were saying. Like, why was David a man after god's own heart? Because he opened up his whole heart to god. Right. Yeah.
Zach:So he takes imperfect people who are honest with themselves and honest with God, who walk in faith, and then we get to experience the story of the prodigal son. Right? Like, no matter how far away we are, we can look to our father, and he's running after us. He pursues us. He calls us.
Zach:He embraces us regardless of what we do. It's so good. And, Ben, I need that every day, every moment of every day because I forget. I am a sheep. I forget so often.
Zach:And stunship isn't just about the practical. It isn't just about doing what's wise and what makes sense. It's about being obedient to what he is calling you to and walking by faith because the opinion of God matters so much more than the opinion of man. Yeah. I was you know, I I
Ben:love what you you brought up the prodigal, and and there was a a moment that I a growth spurt of sonship or revelation of sonship that I had a few years ago. I was I was really struggling with part of my my business was struggling and then at home, we'd we had, you know, triplets. Some of y'all probably don't know, but we had five kids in the house that were in diapers, five kids under three and under. And I just I was at the end. I had I was at the end and pushed past the edge of my limitations.
Ben:And I was just failing every day. It felt like I was failing. And and I would wake up early and and work out and go spend time with the Lord and get filled up. But at the end of the by the end of the day, I was I was I was not just empty. I was I was I was failing miserably.
Ben:I was failing my family. I was I was failing my team at work. And and so I would I would wake up the next morning and repent to the Lord. But I went through there was after a certain length of time of this, I became numb in my relationship with the Lord and I couldn't feel I was still doing the disciplines. I was still waking up.
Ben:I was still do but I could no longer like connect when I was reading scripture or praying. It just felt like prayers were hitting the ceiling. And I, at one point asked God a question like how in the world can I break through? And I had this this picture of and I and I knew, you know, your failure is always before you. I I had this in my imagination.
Ben:I thought about one of my children at the time who was especially difficult to at the at that season had a lot of needs and was acting out and and throwing a lot of tempers and and different things. And it would the the you know, my reaction my my internal reaction was like, oh, I can't I can't handle these temper tantrums that are being thrown. But in this in in this imagination, I would I I had I had I could see her throwing this temper, and then and I had experienced this in real life before. But then I could see she turned her head in this in this imagination thing, and turned her head to me and looked at me like, I need a hug. And my heart just melted towards her.
Ben:And I was like, thinking about how I would scoop her up. And in real life, that actually happened. Like, she turns, throws a temper tantrum, and then she just is like, daddy. And I'm immediately, and I'm sitting here going again, scripture is very clear. And you who are evil, if you who are evil are like this, how much more love is your father giving you?
Ben:I'm just going, he is slow to anger, abounding in love, know, and and patient and long suffering. And and so, you know you talked about the prodigal son, how much more does he have grace for our failures, for our pantrums, for our inadequacies and all it takes to bring his affection to us is a glance. And and it's probably already there anyway, but I had this realization that if I can just look to the Lord when my weak moments, when I'm at my end, if I can just look to him, he is running to me. And that is the prodigal son story.
Zach:Man, Ben, I'm gonna I'm gonna end it just by doing something that got a bit weird, but I think that I think that it'll be cool. And I'm pretty confident that that it's good. So, man, just sonship is is seeing God rightly as good, as kind, as patient, as loving, and seeing yourself rightly as a son of the most high king, as someone who has worth and someone who has value and someone who has a purpose and has a plan. And you need to be surrounded by people who are going to remind you of that every moment of every day. You have to get into his holy spirit presence and be reminded of that through worship and through the word and through prayer.
Zach:And, man, it's it's not about coming to him to get something, but it's about coming to him so that you can be with him. It's about presence over performance, and we are at our best when we're walking hand in hand with God, and he is whispering the truth that dispels the lies every step of the way. And so, God, if there's someone who is tuning in to this and they've never experienced sonship, I just invite you all just to take a second, take a deep breath, get your eyes closed, and just say to Lord, what do you have for me here? And then would you remind me of who you are and who I am? And, Holy Spirit, I pray that you do work on my heart to rid myself of anything that's keeping me from believing that I am not loved and that I'm not worthy and that I don't have a seat at the table.
Zach:And when you re remind me of how you see me, Lord, may we see ourselves how you see me. What you got, man?
Ben:It's good. It's good. Yeah. I've I just to encourage you guys to I was thinking when you in your prayers, thinking about this just the Romans eight chapter about sonship. And I mean, is the kind of if Google sonship in scripture, probably Romans eight is coming up.
Ben:And the whole you know, we we don't have a spirit. We're no longer subject to a spirit of fear, but of one but one of sonship. And that whole chapter starts out talking about Jesus as our sin offering. And the sin offering in scripture was specifically the offering that would erase the sin, the unintentional or intentional sin and the consequences of that. And so, you know, I just I want us to be thinking about and and and appreciating and letting our hearts be filled with gratitude that, you know, god god's sending Jesus made a way for us to to erase all of this sin and reestablish and and the consequences of it and reestablish us as sons of of him.
Ben:And I love what you said. It's from that place that we we take risk. We've we've we act in faith. So just encourage you guys to to do that.
Zach:In that place, we live life. Yeah. Because life is an adventure. It's it's not about just going to the same job, the same nine to five. It's not about being apathetic or being lazy.
Zach:It's about a life that is on fire. That's right. It's about having a purpose. It's about having a vision. It's about going and taking our mountain and conquering.
Zach:Right? That's right. And, man, this will be it. But if you have kids, think about how you see your kids when you're at your best. Think about how much you love them unconditionally, and you would do anything for them.
Zach:And that's how the Lord sees us. Amen. And may we be reminded of that daily stuff. Alright. Well, that's it for the 10,000 fathers podcast.
Zach:Ben, anything that you would like to end on?
Ben:Man, thank you, Zach. And, hopefully, we can make it through all four pillars very soon. So I I like again, as it started out on sonship, which is the one it's it's the most important one, and it's the one that I'm currently aware of my greatest need.
Zach:So Yeah. And if if you would like to learn more about 10,000 fathers, you can, follow us on Instagram at raising up fathers. You can check out our website, raisingupfathers.com, And there, you can find everything that you need to know. So super thankful, Ben, for you and for your time, and until next time. See y'all.
Ben:Thanks, Garza.
Zach:Thank you so much for tuning in to the Raising Up Fathers podcast. Be sure to grab a friend or two and sign up for next year's summit. If this podcast encouraged you today, please share it with a friend. To learn more about 10,000 fathers, visit our website at raisingupfathers.com. Thank you.