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What's on the menu at Lucid Cafe? Stories of transformation; healing journeys; thought-provoking conversations about consciousness, shamanism, psychology, ethics. Hosted by Wendy Halley of Lucid Path Wellness & Healing Arts.
Hi. This is Wendy Halley, and you're listening to Lucid Cafe. Aloha. Thanks for tuning in. I hope all is well in your world.
Wendy:Our world here in Central Vermont is currently very soggy, which it's really not supposed to be since it's mid December. Man, the weather patterns are well, it seems there really aren't any patterns. The weather is all over the place. So I guess irregular is the new pattern. At least it matches how my brain works!
Wendy:So there's that. So I've been getting some preliminary feedback from some of the folks who enrolled in the introductory shamanic online course I recently released, And they seem to be liking it and getting a lot out of it, which was my hope. It's called Become Your Own Shaman, and it's a self paced experiential introductory course that gives you the groundwork to start a personal shamanic practice. The foundation of the course is based with permission on my understanding of the indigenous Hawaiian spiritual worldview that was shared with me during the early phase of my apprenticeship. In the course, we'll explore subjects like the nature of reality, the nature of the self and how it relates to consciousness.
Wendy:And you'll learn the mechanics of how to safely and easily enter a shamanic trance state using sound. Then we'll dive into some fundamental experiential exercises introducing you to the shamanic realms and 2 of your personal spirit guides. So my goal in creating this course was to make it as affordable and user friendly as possible. You have lifetime access to the content as long as I keep paying the website hosting fee which means you can revisit the material anytime you like. The course incorporates all I've learned teaching introductory shamanic workshops over the last 20 or so years including ways to address the common areas where new practitioners can get a little stuck.
Wendy:So if you're intrigued, take the first step toward becoming your own shaman today. Visit lucidpathwellness.com or use the link in the show notes to enroll and start your journey toward deepening your connection to the unseen world and yourself. Okay. So today's episode is an invitation to deepen your connection with chocolate in order to deepen your connection with yourself. Also very shamanic.
Wendy:My guest, Judy Machado, is a lovely human being who is following her passion to introduce people to the healing magic of ceremonial cacao. In our conversation, Judy shares how cacao is a master teacher plant that has many, many gifts to offer us. And since I have a lifelong relationship with chocolate, I eat it every day without fail, sometimes more than once. Yep. I've had a desire to learn more about ceremonial cacao and was thrilled to have the chance to speak with Judy.
Wendy:Since recording our interview a couple of months ago, I've used her simple approach to working with cacao and am completely in love. All the things she mentions in our conversation that you're about to listen to seem to be true. The essence of cacao is so loving and so gentle, and I'm finding I can't wait for my personal weekend cacao ceremonies. I'm so enamored that I started carrying ceremonial cacao at the wellness center a couple of weeks ago, and I've already had to restock. The spirit of cacao seems to be calling us.
Wendy:So let's get to it. Please enjoy my conversation with Judy Machado. Judy, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Judy:Wendy, thank you so much for everything that you do and for your beautiful energy and for bringing this information, all of this information to to so many people in your community. I'm just so grateful that I'm here finally with you. Thank you. Thank you.
Wendy:Wow. What a great start. I have to fit my head into the computer now. It's so big. So let's start with the basics.
Wendy:Why don't you just talk a little bit about what it is that you're doing and what we're gonna be talking about in this conversation?
Judy:Yeah. So today we're gonna be talking mostly about cacao. Cacao as a beautiful master plant medicine, a master teacher plant medicine, a cosmic spirit that has manifested itself on one of our plants here on earth so that we can consume, consume, drink, and have our heart expressed open, opened so that we can start to see some other perspectives on a lot of these stories that we're all hanging on to, a lot of these perspectives, a lot of these limiting beliefs, conditions.
Wendy:Really? You think that is a thing? That we have condition beliefs and thoughts?
Judy:And this is what's so beautiful, is like, I love the plants are helping us to say, you know what? Every belief. Every belief that you have will just continually be open to it, to continually being upgraded. So that our reality can continue to be upgraded as well. Because we create our reality based on our beliefs.
Judy:Our eyes are literally projections of what's going on inside of us. And so if we can create new beliefs, empowering beliefs, remembrance of who we are, we are divine here just spending this short period of time as in this human bodysuit, enjoying life and remembering that experience. And so these plants really wanna help us to shake us up a bit, you know, shake us up a bit. And we're gonna talk about cacao today and how it is such a beautiful, gentle, and yet such a powerful, profound medicine for our remembrance.
Wendy:Beautiful. Okay. I am curious to learn about how a cacao experience can help challenge your beliefs. I think that's a fascinating idea. I come from a a well, I have a shamanic practice, so I know how powerful that can be.
Wendy:And this is it's a plant medicine, which is very shamanic, and I have a feeling the way you work with it is in that realm. Yeah?
Judy:Yes. Exactly. It's it's a and maybe that's where we start is all plants are either teacher plants or medicinal plants. So they can either help us. Imagine, you know, chamomile or lavender, very medicinal for a body, for a mind, for a spirit.
Judy:But then there's also the master teacher plants. These are the plants usually where we work with in the shamanic realm, or even in just understanding that these plants are literally cosmic spirits that have manifested themselves so that we in our body suits that we have here in this in this journey, part of what we agree to in this journey here on earth right now is we agree that one of our agreements is that we have to eat to stay alive, at least for now, right? We agree that we need to eat. And so when we take these medicines, they create an alchemical reaction, not only in our body, but also support us in this journey in consciousness, and expanding our consciousness, which really is just our awareness. What are we aware of?
Judy:How much more do we remember of who we are? And these medicines, these master teacher plant medicines are very much honored, revered for centuries, if not longer, by our beloved indigenous communities, by our ancestors, understanding that there are spirits. They're not just a drink that we can drink, and it can help us to feel good, or go on some, in the case of some psychedelics, go on a little bit of a journey. If we can truly connect, and it's so easy to connect, it's just a matter of realizing that there are spirits in these plants. And when we speak to them, ask and you shall receive.
Judy:This has been coded for us and gifted to us as statement for how many years? And it truly is. We are here on this beautiful journey of free will. And so the others, these spirits that are part of our co creation, because we have free will, they they really can't interfere unless we ask. And when we ask, first we have to remember.
Judy:We have to remember that they're there. And we go through this journey of remembering, oh my goodness, I'm not just me. I'm not alone. There's so much more in this planet. There's so much more there's so much guidance, divine guidance and protection.
Judy:What if I speak to these guides and we start to realize that there are different guides, different spirit guides, which are really, really different aspects of ourselves, different aspects of ourselves. And I really believe that the cacao spirit guide, because she's a spirit guide, she's a spirit when we drink, when we connect, we speak to her. She's a spirit that can be our guide because we ask her for assistance. We'll talk a bit more about that and what that's done for myself and for so many others as a guide. When you when you see her as a beautiful teacher, a master teacher, a guide supporting us in our remembrance, a beloved.
Judy:When that happens, we start to remember more and more that we are we are this cosmic divinity. In fact, the medicines really want to show us that we are them, that we are the medicine. And so we go through this journey because obviously we've been conditioned. Right? That we are these little human beings and that all these problems are happening in the world, and we're victims of these problems, and we have no control.
Judy:And you know, this is just the way it's been. And then we go through this journey of remembering, oh, wait a minute, this is just a story that got created by a couple people, and then it became this collective idea, and therefore it became expressed as this collective physical expression here on the earth. But really, we each can create our own reality based on our remembrance, and based on our thoughts that comes from our thoughts. And these plants wanna help us, especially right now.
Wendy:Well, if you think about it, we're already creating our own realities. We just don't realize we're doing it. Right? I mean, so you're saying we're taking a more active approach by developing a relationship with, for example, the cacao spirit.
Judy:Yes. Exactly. And instead, typically, we sort of follow the crowds. Right? This is kind of how we've all been conditioned.
Judy:Follow the crowds, follow what's on the news, follow what's over here, follow what everyone else is doing. And the reality is, there's a lot of fear and control and greed in a lot of what's being pushed, you know, from those places.
Wendy:I hadn't noticed. And so
Judy:when we we all listen to this, and we're being part of it, we're bringing energy, but we're creating more of it. And so the plants are helping us realize we are actually above that, Observe ourselves as above that, these beautiful creators of all. We chose to be here and experience it all, to see it all. And how do we wish to live our life? If we can see it all and be it all, all, do we have to be in it all and forgetting who we are and be in this drama?
Judy:Or can we be above and just say wow, look at that over there, look at that over there, even though that seems so upsetting? I see from this perspective how this is actually serving the people around to help them in their journey of remembering. Perfect, yes. We can choose to be in the drama and be in that energy, which creates more of it, or we can also choose to step aside and remember. These plants help us remember our divinity.
Judy:We are the creators. We are a reflection of the God, the Goddess, the 1, the source. And so we can literally step back. That is what these medicines do. And with cacao specifically, cacao is not a psychedelic.
Judy:And so cacao, some people think, oh, whatever. And I've heard of cacao as a plant medicine. It's not really gonna give me a big journey. Or maybe I did before and I didn't really experience very much. I can tell you having been in beautiful, beautiful relationship with this plant spirit for over 5 years, speaking to her every day, sometimes with the drink, sometimes without the drink, because we know these spirits are here.
Judy:We can connect with them all the time. It just
Wendy:Once that connection's made.
Judy:Exactly. And it made it so helpful to have a drink because it's it's sort of a a physical connection as well. And
Wendy:We love ritual. Our bodies really respond to that.
Judy:Yes. And how beautiful the cacao can be that ritual for us. The morning ritual. Right? The morning or even the evening, depending on what works for you, but a beautiful way to slow you down.
Judy:Get on the stove, start to mix, start to notice the designs that are showing up. There's layers, literally the journey starts at the stove. I always say because there are layers in the surface of the cacao. There's literally a layer of what looks like water. Below there's a layer of what looks like soil, brown soil.
Judy:Below that you'll see little bubbles, which has more water and more soil. So there's like layers of the veil. I like to think of it as. And she's saying, I'm gonna take you into these layers. Are you ready?
Judy:Even though it's not a psychedelic journey, it is a beautiful journey that of unraveling because she's here to open our heart. And if you can imagine the heart, sometimes we have tight bud, flower bud, and it's been tightened, or we we shut it down or we tighten it because of all the stories, all the things that have happened to us. And that person left me tightened even more because maybe I'm not good enough. Or this thing happened over there, tightened it even more and and give less of my love because I don't wanna be hurt again. When you look at that, that that's a beautiful thing that we're protecting ourselves, and yet, as we expand and remember that all there is is love and abundance.
Judy:Everything else is just a story that we're creating. Like, look at nature. All nature knows is to give and to be abundant. And so all there is is abundance and growth and love. And so when our hearts are opening up, we realize that we can attract the things that we can't even imagine in our current state of awareness, state of consciousness.
Judy:And these medicines are taking us on these journeys, especially as we go through the Shamanic dieta journeys, which we can talk about later on a bit, these really profound journeys where there's a ceremony to open, ceremony to close. We're calling in the spirit. We're committing to purifying our body, changing our diet during that period. So we're purifying our body, changing our social conditions a bit so we're quieter, so we're more aware. So as we're drinking every day, this medicine, this dieta, having shared an intention at the beginning and then thanking her at the end for that period of time that we've asked her to be with us in reverence to her time.
Judy:During that period, we received so much profound shifts, remembrances, different perspectives so that we can forgive ourselves or forgive others. And remember that different perspectives in a way, I call it, like, knowings with the medicine, where something will come to you and it's not just, oh, wow. I have an idea. That feels really good. Let me think about that a bit more.
Judy:Because that would come from the brain. It's more I just had this thought and it's in my bones, and I don't even have to think about it anymore. I just know that this is the way it is. And that is divine guidance. That is us connecting.
Wendy:That's true intuitive guidance. Right? It is very different from thinking it into being or imagining it.
Judy:Yes. And imagining it, and then having the faith that the guidance will show up. And the guidance being open to the belief and then the guidance shows up as a knowing as a, oh, my God. So we can ask. This is very typical with, what what I've done with cacao is I sit in my beautiful morning ritual with this with my cup, with the drink.
Judy:I speak to the spirit of cacao, and the more we speak to her again, the spirits these plant spirits or in spirit guides are reflections of us. So imagine if you had a partner in your life who you never say their name. You never really talk to them. Right? They're kind of there.
Wendy:Right. Right.
Judy:We don't talk to
Wendy:Yeah. We don't usually call each other by our names when you live with somebody.
Judy:Right? Yeah. But yet that is the most beautiful sound you could probably hear is when somebody calls you by your name, especially a partner. And so imagine
Wendy:Although it could have lots of nicknames.
Judy:Yes. We
Wendy:do that at home. We we have very many nicknames that are obnoxious and fun. Yeah.
Judy:And you could do that with plant spirits too. They Well,
Wendy:it's a relationship. Right? Yeah.
Judy:Relationship. And so when we are in relationship with these plant spirits, that is the change. That is the game changer, at least from my perspective, my experience. That is the beginning of what I call the magic carpet ride. Because when you are in relationship with somebody, imagine you you you have these feelings for somebody and you'd love a partnership with them, a relationship with them.
Judy:That's gonna take some effort and talking to them and speaking to them and and loving them and thanking them, not just asking them for stuff, but thanking them for who they are and for what they're doing for you. That is a full relationship. And so if we can take that with these plant spirits and do the same thing, thank them. Have your drink. Thank them for calling on you, for for this remembrance that they are here, that we can remember that they are here to guide us, that they have the divine perspective that we are also expanding into, but they are already there.
Judy:How can they support us now? Yes. Support me. I'm excited to be here. Thank you.
Judy:I feel you. I love you. And I'm feeling a little bit lost with this thing. I have this issue over here, or or this thing really upset me yesterday. And can you help me to open my heart and get to the root of that so that I can really see the other side of that and and not see it from perhaps maybe a wound of my own.
Judy:That perhaps I've I've been projecting, but see it as love as something outside of me that is just there to show me who I am. And so these are the types of deepening that we can get into with these beautiful plant spirits, these spirits. And with cacao, I like to talk about cacao specifically because she's been my beloved plant medicine that I've been working with for over 5 years, playing with, communing with her and experiencing what I had no idea. I just knew when I first heard about cacao, went to a ceremony, was like, oh, there's something beautiful here. How is this main ingredient to make chocolate?
Judy:How is this a master plant medicine? Same level of mastery as say Ayahuasca or some of our other quite profound stronger medicines. Again, I say stronger but not more powerful or or not more, important. They're all the ones that are considered master plant medicines. They're all considered that for a reason because they are teacher plants.
Judy:And if we bring to the relationship, the relationship with them, we can be supported in ways that we cannot even imagine. And one of the things that came to me very quickly in my daily, suddenly I was so connected to her and I was drinking every day and I was talking to her. I was asking, help me help me to understand more of who I am, how I can serve, and how I cannot get affected so much with what's going on in the world. Help me to see the bigger perspective, help me to remember that I'm divine. And in that remembering, I just I I kept asking in that remembering, I received very soon in my 1st few months working with her a beautiful message.
Judy:And she said, Judy, would you be willing, every time that you state a belief, whether it's just a thought in your head, or whether you're speaking to somebody and you're like, oh, this is why, but what I believe is happening in the world, or whatever the belief is, any belief, any time that you state a belief, would you be willing to take a moment, and either out loud or in my heart to say, oh, this is my belief right now, and I'm open. I am welcoming new information from higher perspectives, higher perspectives of love and above, to come into my awareness, and at that time, depending on the information, I'm open to possibly one day changing this belief. Because it is our beliefs that create our reality. All of our beliefs create our reality. And so in order to raise in awareness or consciousness, we must change our beliefs.
Judy:And so many of us, we have we're in this culture. I mean look on social media when people create comments in your posts, it's like, this is, you know, this is what you should be doing or this is wrong or how dare you or shame on you or all this stuff, these beliefs, these strong beliefs that everybody has. And yet if we could just be open, notice how that brings into a space of remembering that everybody has different perspectives because everyone's looking at life from their own experience, from their own vantage point, from their own space and consciousness and awareness. And therefore everyone is right. They're right in terms of what from their space.
Wendy:For them. For them. Yeah.
Judy:For them.
Wendy:Based on their life experiences and how they've made sense of it in themselves and how they fit in the world.
Judy:And so when we can come to that and see them through love, instead of seeing them through the lens of hate, or evil, or whatever it is. Not saying that we agree with what people are doing, but from our own standpoint, we are feeling and sending love so that everyone is in this remembrance. And so these heart medicines wanna help us to get into this place to soften our heart and to heal our ourselves because we are that. We are that that we are looking at. That is aspects of us that are being shown.
Judy:Yes. And I think you're hitting on a really
Wendy:tricky thing. Right? Because the nature of a belief is that it's unconscious. Right? Because the nature of a belief is that it's unconscious.
Wendy:We don't realize we believe what we believe until we're thinking about what it is that we believe. Right? We're investigating, What is it that I believe? Or it's part of the frame of who we are. Well, I believe that everyone should eat chocolate every day, that it's good for you or whatever.
Wendy:I don't know. I'm just making shit up. But so there's the beliefs that sort of you adopt to define yourself and who you are in the world, like your your flag, the flag of who you are. But then most beliefs, we don't have that level of awareness of. So I'm trying to understand how the cacao plant spirit works with us, meaning that she's inviting us to have a broader perspective, and she's doing this through offering insights if you're open to receiving them.
Wendy:Like, your invitation from the spirit of cacao was to examine your beliefs. Right? But you have to become aware of what they are in order to examine them, like, to even know what is coming out of your mouth at any point is a byproduct of a belief. Right? It's a it's very tricky
Judy:Yes.
Wendy:Unless it was easy for you. I don't know. Was it easy for you?
Judy:Yeah. Well, I can give you an example. Like, for instance, the beginning of COVID. That was a time where there was a lot of confusion in the world and a lot of fear and a lot of shame and a lot of different feelings were happening. And in drinking the cacao every day and sometimes being caught up in what was going on in the world and some of the controls that were going on in the world, like all that stuff, there was a lot of anger coming up for me.
Judy:Right? So I was like feeling the anger. And so I was saying, help me to understand. And for me, I I was I was having some fears around, big fears around, I made certain decisions in my life and there were some possibilities that I wouldn't be able to travel again based on these decisions I made and certain things like that. So I was in this real place of fear around, oh, my God, is this really the rest of my life?
Judy:Is it possible? Look at how the whole world is in this space, in this fear. Help me to understand what's happening here. And am I safe and divinely guided? And in this space, the cacao kept suggesting study consciousness, study deeper consciousness, go into study of consciousness.
Judy:And I started to remember, oh, yeah, that book. When I took my NLP training certification, it was a book called Power versus Force. That's been on my bookshelf for so long. Let me read this again. So certain things that were like, yes, do this inspired action.
Judy:And in these spaces, the medicine helps you to expand, right, expand away. And when you expand up into a place where she gives you like these moments of remembering the divinity of who you are, The creator of who you are. It's not something that typically in our consciousness, we we go around believing that we're the creator and that we can create, manifest everything in front of us. We have levels of of shifting in these beliefs and awareness. And these medicines help us to get into this place where you have this moment or a couple moments or more where you're in the space of remembering.
Judy:Oh my god. Yes. This is how it works. How it's worked is that we are an expression of divine. And when we are the expression of divine, we've chosen to come and anything and everything is possible to be experienced in this world.
Judy:Some people are choosing to experience some things, others are choosing to experience others. The point is we can choose to experience what we want. And this is something that came literally through my daily practice. It was a little bit more understanding. And because she wanted to help me, she also, the medicine, because it's a guide, will direct you.
Judy:Read this book, Study this book. Or suddenly you have an inspired action. Do this or talk to this person. And then all of a sudden you're taking this course. Or whatever it is in this new journey of getting into a place where you can start to realize, like in that space of COVID, for example, where I was experiencing a lot of fear and anger, it was helping me to see that this is actually one of the most incredible ways of creating The climax for a lot of these systems to fall.
Judy:Because it was awakening so many people into wait a minute. Woah, woah, woah, woah. What exactly is this? Let me question things. Why is there so much fear when again, when we're brought into this place with the plant medicines of love, we realize that all there is is love.
Judy:Whenever there's fear being thrown at us and injecting like that, where is that really coming from? So we start to really question but not from a place of anger anymore. I was now being directed through this beautiful guidance of, yes, there's righteous anger so that we can make changes, that's very important. But when we are in the same anger as the the people that are pushing the anger, we're just creating more of the same problem. And so that whole I know this is a lot to to understand, but this is part of what what these medicines do is when we are committed, I found when we are committed to them and when we speak to them often, they bring us expansion, but it has to come gradually.
Judy:You can't just wake up one day and we're suddenly enlightened. There's a saying with many of our deities that you would actually die if it was that fast. Like it would be too much for us. That we have to go in these beautiful journeys of slowly remembering for a couple reasons. One is the ideas, the journey is part of what we should be enjoying.
Judy:This journey of now feeling like, okay, I have a new belief around this thing. Great. Let me enjoy the space of having some forgiveness around here and this new belief. And so there's there's so many beautiful journeys that come to us. Some are very specific about, for example, another beautiful example is the Deyata.
Judy:When we do this Deyata journey, very profound messages can come to us. It's like inviting a whole unraveling happening during however many days you've chosen and agreed to do this dyetha. So my very first dyetha, I just finished the opening ceremony with the shaman. And I was doing my thing, went to check my phone, and I had this text message from my beautiful cousin. And he was saying, oh my God, I just checked your website, and he was saying, oh my god, I just checked your website.
Judy:He's Christian, he's very religious. I just checked your website because my wife mentioned something, and I cannot believe what you do. This is crazy. You're the godmother of my son. Uh-oh.
Judy:I don't know this anymore. By the way, I'm the male and the patriarch of this family. I have to protect this family. Do not contact my wife about any of your ceremonies or anything. And blah blah blah like this whole.
Wendy:Oh no.
Judy:That came the moment after I connected so deeply with Kakao. And I started to ask, please help me. And of course, I was like, oh, I'm the godmother of this beautiful sun and I have this like, this fear come up for me. What's gonna happen? Am I not gonna be able to see him anymore?
Judy:And what does this mean? And questioning even, oh my God, who am I? Am I hurting people by doing what I'm doing? Like just all this stuff was happening, right?
Wendy:Well, sure, yeah.
Judy:All the shame was coming up. Shame, guilt, all this stuff was coming up. And because when you are working with these plant medicines, especially in the Etta where you have, you're in a guided group, where you have made a commitment that when something like this shows up, you will take, even if it's a couple of seconds, to acknowledge the feeling and to say, beautiful mama cacao or spirit of cacao, that right there, I'm in this meeting, but this feeling just came up. That right there, I would like to go deeper on and address. And so then she brings even more.
Judy:And in that space, I sat down because I was home and I had time when that happened, sat down in quiet, and I spoke to her again. I said, wow. That was fast. Thank you and oh my god, help me through this because there's some serious fear and shame and I don't know what's I don't even know how to respond. And I sat with this and I said, please just help me to to understand his perspective and to also just resolve this with love.
Judy:How can this be resolved with love? So I don't have to feel these feelings. And in that space, I sat quietly and so quickly for me, it started to unravel that, of course, he he's living his experience and what he's seeing is this. And he's seeing bad spirits that can come into your body and whatever he's thinking. Right?
Wendy:Right. Right.
Judy:Belief. And that's okay. I have a belief, and he's just not aware of my perspective, but I'm aware now of his perspective. So how can I love him for who he is, but yet still hold my boundaries? And so that was when I had this beautiful message.
Judy:Just came through to me. I had to message him back. And I just messaged back saying, yes. I understand. I understand that you have this lifestyle, these beliefs, and I also have mine.
Judy:And at the end of the day, we all love God and want to want to appreciate God and bring God into our lives. And you know me, I'm a loving, beautiful person. I would never harm anyone. You know me and you know how I am with your son. I I just want you to know that I love you.
Judy:I love you and I love your family. And he was like, how could he, like, say anything to that? He was like, okay. You know what? You're right.
Judy:Thank you, and let's just keep moving on.
Wendy:Wow. Okay.
Judy:Never had that issue again. In fact, we've had little conversations about cacao and things like that, but never in a heated discussion. Jesse's like, oh, interesting. It's like he's more open now. So again, the medicines help us to see everything from love.
Judy:Doesn't mean we have to love that and be, oh, now I'm gonna be Christian because of what he said. It's just look at that and say, okay, he's on his journey. He's chosen that life right now, and he's chosen to have those beliefs, and that's great. That's his thing.
Wendy:So you're saying instead of going into the fear place and matching him, it's coming to the opposite, the love space. That makes perfect sense, of course. And what great wisdom you were offered. That's a great example. So thank you for sharing both of the examples you have so far around how the medicine has helped you.
Wendy:It's very powerful, and it makes me even more curious about how to work with the medicine, like how do the rituals look? And I mean, you started talking a little bit about the morning ritual, and then you also touched on this bigger ritual. I imagine there are many rituals, different ways to do it.
Judy:So many different ways. Really, there's the every now and then, I wanna have cacao and I wanna speak to her. That's beautiful. Whatever is calling into you. There's no, you must work with her, you must not work with her.
Judy:It's just feeling your heart. And you'll know if she's calling to you because these plant medicines will call to you. You literally will be like, oh, I'm thinking about cacao, or look how that message came up about cacao, or now I'm hearing about this ceremony. And that's an invitation because these plant medicines are calling on those who are ready to open up their hearts, to open up and to expand into a new more expansive expression and awareness and consciousness to make a shift in their life. And this is why many of these master plant medicines, even just 10 years ago, this is how fast things are changing, even just 10 years ago, many of them were mostly calling upon shamans or conscious teachers who were in a very expansive level of consciousness already to accept the wisdom that these medicines want to bring to you.
Judy:Because we know that when we hear something that we're not that's not part of our belief system, we tend to be like, many of us will make fun of it. Oh, that's so ridiculous thing. Or how can that be? But we need to be in a place already where we are open. Okay.
Judy:There's gonna be some things that might show up, which I'm are not part of my belief system, but I'm open to at least feeling into it. Feeling versus the head. Oh, it's not, you know, blah blah blah. Must be wrong. I've heard this.
Judy:It's the heart. And these medicines wanna help us to get into the heart so we can get more into the feeling, into the flow versus the head. The head is a beautiful human construct. It's part of our human experience here. And it's the heart that is connected to the divine and to the intuition.
Judy:You know, we've been so conditioned to everything's mind. What we'll think about what the past, what we did. It should be based on the past or whatever it is. We're thinking about what we've learned so that we can base it on creating when really our beautiful role here. I truly believe that the divine is individuated itself so that it can see itself.
Judy:And so we are here, and we've got all these individuations which are showing us different aspects of us, whether it's human other humans or other experiences or even these spirit guides are all different aspects of us. And they show up so that we can see ourselves, and we can go on this journey of seeing ourselves and making decisions and new adventures and new play, and hopefully getting to a place of remembering that ultimately, ultimately, best way to experience this life is to have fun and to not take things too seriously and to realize that we, in fact, are all creating
Wendy:this. I'll turn it to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Judy:And so we're all in this place of, really, how can we be more loved, play, laugh? In fact, the cacao spirit, I often call her this, like, little giddy, cute spirit. She like giggles, she laughs, she wants us to laugh. She wants us to be happy. When you can really connect with her, you feel her giddiness.
Judy:She wants to remind you that you are that inner child again who likes to giggle and laugh and laugh hysterically and get in trouble for laughing so much when you're supposed to be quiet. Like, all that stuff again. How did that become wrong? It's like suddenly I have this urge and feeling of laughing, and I wanna laugh uncontrollably. Things that are part of the journey that these medicines wanna bring us back to.
Wendy:A lot of what you're describing too is what sounds like the classic shamanic death and rebirth process. It's kind of like once you open these doors where all your fears and insecurities are rising to the surface and inviting you to look at them. And that's kind of what you're describing. And you're also talking about through the lens of belief, which is what's underneath all of those fears and insecurities. Right?
Wendy:So, yeah, this sort of transformative aspect. You're saying you are not the same person you were before cacao entered your life.
Judy:Exactly. Yeah.
Wendy:But the actual ceremony, you're talking about the journey. So can you describe that a little bit more? Like, what do you mean by a journey? Because I have my idea of a journey, and I use sound typically to alter my consciousness. But it sounds like you're accessing a trance state of sorts because you're able to access this wisdom.
Wendy:There's a, I don't know, a quieting or something that's happening, because you're saying the cacao, of course, is not a psychedelic itself. So it's not inducing a trans state, or is it?
Judy:Well, that's that's debatable in my opinion.
Wendy:Okay. Alright.
Judy:Some pretty amazing journeys or state changes and same with others, and at the same time, it's not to be expected. What's to be expected is growing in relationship. And just again, as we refer to, you're like, well, what does that even mean to be in a relationship with spirit? Again, think of the relationships that you have in your life, your children, your partner, your mom, if you have a beautiful relationship with her. What are the people you have the most beautiful relationships with?
Judy:What does that look like? The love, the attention. And when we are in and think of how satisfying that is, that relationship for you, how loving it is. And so it's the same thing. And so what we wanna do is be in relationships so that we can we can start to these medicines wanna help us to be in flow.
Judy:To be that different person that you're going to become is one who's less in the head, trying to figure shit out all the time. Oh, but I gotta think about this, and I gotta plan this, I gotta do that, and more about asking you shall receive. Wow. You are literally speaking to your higher self, to an aspect of yourself when you're speaking to this divine spirit guide.
Wendy:And you're more than just your mind
Judy:Yeah.
Wendy:Is what you're saying. Right? Is that the doors open up to showing you more of yourself and more of what's out there.
Judy:Yeah. It's surrendering to more of your higher self, yourself, whether it's you think of it as your higher self or spirit guides or god or whatever it is. But but this remembering that there is divinity in this whole path, and that we can be in on the divine path if we just allow for the path to unfold. And so that relationship involves, hey, I'm feeling this thing today. I'm feeling this sadness or I have this decision to make.
Judy:I'm not sure. And as we start to open up, help me to surrender. Having these conversations, acknowledging what is. Hey, I I for me, I was so productive. I was like that person who had like a million things on the to do list and it had to be in this order and this had to get done today and blah blah blah.
Judy:It was all this like productivity. In fact, I had a business called Productivity Goddess. And it was all about, yes, surrendering to the feminine, but maintaining that structure. And some structure is good, and the more we open and ask for divine guidance, have the visions, like we talked about imagination. What is it that you want?
Judy:First of all, have clarity. These medicines help us to to remember. Stop running around and being like the the leaf in the wind. And just what what is it you want to experience in your life? What is it you desire?
Judy:Get clarity on that first, and then we start having conversations. I'm really looking forward to for example, for me, this recent decision to move from Toronto to the Azores, Portugal. That was something that I got to experience 4 months there last year. And I was like, one day, I'm gonna I'm gonna move here. I just love this, this lifestyle.
Judy:But, oh my god, it just seems like I have a life in Toronto. I have a house. I have, like, all this stuff. How is this even gonna happen? But I kept speaking to her about it.
Judy:Wow. I'd love for that to happen. I'm not sure how that's gonna happen. How can that happen? Bring to me possibilities whenever it's the right time.
Judy:And one day, on a drive, Toronto to Montreal, and I was just having this beautiful moment of gratitude, just acknowledging all of my spirit guides, calling them all by name, thanking them, speaking to her as well, Mama Kakao. And bam. It came to me like lightning. It was like, you are hosting a retreat there in November, you're gonna buy a one way ticket, and don't worry. This is your first step.
Judy:Just go and plan. Plan to be there for long term, to move, whatever it is, but this is it. And in that moment, I just spent almost a year in like, oh my god, how can I make that work? Why is that even possible? How is it gonna happen?
Judy:So much work involved in that. To bam, It's done. And I I literally I booked my one way ticket. I up until just a few weeks ago, I had no idea where I was gonna stay, but I was not even worried. I wasn't worried.
Judy:I wasn't afraid. I had none of that. It was just pure joy. It's like I just knew, oh, everything's gonna this was my first step. The plant's guiding me, this is my first step.
Judy:Go and just start this. And everything starts to happen after that. That kind of surrender is what the plants wanna help us back to. Right? Because otherwise, I would be like, well, who am I gonna stay with?
Judy:What am I gonna do? And I'm gonna talk to these people. And it's all forced.
Wendy:Right. Yeah. I know. Figuring it out. I have to figure it out.
Wendy:But you're saying you can get help. There is a part of you you can access that's extremely wise. There are spirits out there waiting to help us if we invite them. So what I'm gathering so far from what you're saying is that 2 of the ingredients are curiosity
Judy:Mhmm.
Wendy:And then asking for help.
Judy:Absolutely.
Wendy:Not necessarily in that order. But
Judy:Absolute curiosity is such a beautiful, powerful way of living. Because when we are curious, we are open.
Wendy:Well, it's very childlike. Right? I mean, what we're really talking about is going back to how we were Yes. When we were really little, and we were so open to all of this stuff before our, logical minds started to develop and our ability to have abstract thought started to develop, which is a blessing and a curse. What?
Wendy:So the actual journey I mean, getting back to that idea, you are creating a cacao potion. Yeah?
Judy:Yes. Yes. An elixir, a potion. I love that. Sing at the stove.
Wendy:And the process begins there where you're being curious. You're observing what's happening in the actual vessel you're brewing Mhmm. The potion in. Are you noticing patterns as if doing divination?
Judy:Exactly. As you stop stirring, the pattern settle, new pattern appears, then you stir again. And even just the stirring is very hypnotic. You're literally it feels like you're going into a trance if you're really present, and you're already speaking to her and smelling and getting all the senses in and thanking her for calling on you again. The reverence, the devotion is a big part of this devotion in our lives.
Judy:And not just with this process, but in in all other aspects of our life. Are we in devotion to our relationships? Are we in devotion to our partnership? Are we in devotion to our children? Are we in devotion to our callings?
Judy:Are we in devotion to our day?
Wendy:All great questions. Yeah. How often do we ask ourselves that? Probably never. So I'm seeing that we're getting close to winding down, and I wanna find out from you, how do people learn how to have these ceremonies?
Judy:Yeah.
Wendy:I know you work with people. Yeah?
Judy:Yeah. So there's there's the novice, someone who's just listening to this and thinking, woah, what is this? I wanna drink this for the first time and experience this. And then there's a person who might understand and wanna go a little bit deeper. And so for the novice, for the person who's like wow, this is so interesting, I'm curious, I have on my website a free 5 day video challenge.
Judy:So for 5 days, you receive 5 oh, an email every day for 5 days, a short little video of me coming to the video with my cup of cacao. And you're encouraged, and there's a little video at the beginning how to make it, and how you can now show up every day with your cup. It's it's just a few minutes. And we talk a little bit each day about cacao, this beautiful spirit, who is she, what's possible, and then we speak to her. So I speak to her, I call her in, I ask for something, and then I encourage you in silence to now say something, speak to her.
Judy:So it's a way of you learning how can you speak to the spirit that maybe you don't see and in relationship to her. And it's just such a beautiful 5 days. It's actually an extra 6th day that I gave a little bonus. And then I give you this beautiful meditate. There's all these gifts at the end, if you actually make it to the end.
Judy:So then I'm sharing this so that you can make it to the end, and all these other gifts come to you. Beautiful recorded cacao ceremonies, a beautiful way of starting your journey. So that's on the website. That's goddesstemplecacao.com. Now if you wanna go deeper, if you're hearing, yes, this dieta, this shamanic dieta, I want to be going on this unraveling, more accelerated journey.
Judy:That's also a beautiful journey that I do every 3 months. I take a group together. It's online. There's a whole process in terms of what you're gonna eat, what you're not gonna eat. Your social condition is going to a bit of a, like a silent retreat within your home for a few days first at least.
Judy:You don't have to not go to work and change your whole life. Cacao is is one of these medicines that wants to be with you in your day to day life. That's why, in my opinion, why it's not a psychedelic. Because it wants to work with you so that it's integrating you are integrating in your day to day. You don't have to go and be in a jungle for so many days and then
Wendy:Right. It's not this sort of separate thing. It can be a part of your everyday experience, which is beautiful. Right? It's a really cool thing.
Judy:Beautiful.
Wendy:So she's with you in the physical all the time.
Judy:In physical.
Wendy:All If you want her
Judy:to be. Right? Absolutely. And that's why having her physically in the morning, for me, that was so important because it was a reminder of my ritual. And then it became, okay, now I don't have to drink, but I do wanna talk to her.
Judy:Or throughout the day, something's happening and something's coming up. I'm gonna talk to her. I don't need to go get my drink because I'm in relationship. I understand. I feel.
Judy:I receive. You're gonna start to receive guidance. It's opening up the channel. And so that video series is gonna help you to get into this place being vulnerable with her, sharing, opening up your heart with her because that's when we acknowledge, that's when we can ask. We almost specifically for what it is we're looking for and they can support us.
Judy:And so yes, between that, the dieta, which is the deeper journey, and then also beautiful retreats in Peru and the Azores Islands, where we drink cacao on sacred land every day for the period of the retreat, in ceremony, in deep healing, lots of goodness.
Wendy:Very cool. Alright. So how does one even find good cacao?
Judy:Yeah. So
Wendy:And, like, the preparation of it and
Judy:Yeah. So I I have a video, then I show you at the stove how you can make it and how you can buy it, how you can find it. First thing you need to know is that it it needs to be called ceremonial cacao because that means it's ceremonial grade. What that means is that everyone from how it was planted, the farm, those who harvest, those who package, those who are branding, all are in reverence to and understand that this is a sacred master plant medicine. This is not just a drink.
Judy:So that's the first process. Ceremonial cacao is what you wanna look for. And if you type it, you can find some beautiful brands. I also suggest some as well when people are looking for that on my website. And also part of, I have a beautiful email community every week educating on more and more stories of cacao and also mushrooms, and how I'm now, over the last year, being called to really mix in low doses, sometimes microdoses, very low doses of the mushrooms with the cacao because the 2 together are such a beautiful synergistic blend.
Judy:So that's also another journey if you're curious or interested. How does that work?
Wendy:Are you talking about psilocybin or other medicinal mushrooms?
Judy:Yeah. Psilocybin. Okay. Yeah. Beautiful.
Judy:Mhmm. Yeah. And then of course, Instagram too is a beautiful place to find me, Goddess Temple Cacao. And if you do somehow find me, I would love to hear how you found me through Wendy, through this beautiful journey. And I'd love to hear what you're curious about and how I can support you.
Judy:What's going on with Cacao, with this remembrance for you, or what's happening. And I can definitely guide you whether it's, one of my free meditations or the free 5 day series or lots of different live beautiful calls that I'm hosting all the time.
Wendy:Alright. And how often do you do it's called dieta?
Judy:Yes. The dieta. Yeah. The plant medicine dieta is every 3 months. So I'm about to start one.
Judy:The next one is October 23rd, and then the next one will be March.
Wendy:Yeah. We're in 2024 right now as we're having this conversation.
Judy:Exactly. And coming up to big things happening in America with the elections and all over the right? With all this
Wendy:Oh, that. Yes.
Judy:And what's being pushed in terms of energy and all this stuff from certain people, how beautiful that a group of us can come together with the spirit of cacao to not only heal our own hearts and our own remembrance, but also to send beautiful, loving remembrance to everyone in the world because all of this really is an unraveling, a huge unraveling that's happening right now. We are living in such a beautiful time. Even though it may look scary if you watch the news or anything like that, it's all unfold. It's all coming to an end. All these systems that many of which were once created for us, a lot of them have been just hijacked to create the greater good for certain people only and not everyone.
Judy:And yet we are all it starts with us. All. It starts with us loving and sending love to all. Forgiveness, love to all, so that we can shift that and create this beautiful magical world that is so close, and it's every day it's shifting and changing already.
Wendy:Well, your enthusiasm is contagious. Thanks. And this has been lovely. I am, like, uber curious now, so I wanna explore some more. I have a feeling I'm not alone in that.
Judy:Yes. There's so many people.
Wendy:I'm a big fan of chocolate in general, but but I have very little experience with cacao. So I'm really curious to explore some more. So thank you so much for sharing all your experiences and what you've learned. I really appreciate it.
Judy:Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here with you, such a beautiful soul, such beautiful energy, and to share all of this with the other beautiful souls that you've attracted into your world who are listening to this. Thank you. So much love to everyone, and let's go and make the world a much more beautiful place.
Wendy:Cannot recommend ceremonial cacao enough if you haven't already gotten that impression from my introduction. Please do yourself a favor and explore the gifts cacao has to offer. Drink a cup of love and see where she takes you. If you'd like to learn more about Judy, her retreats, or sign up for her free 5 day cacao drinking challenge, please visit goddesstemplecacao.com. And if you're in Vermont and would like to purchase some delicious Guatemalan ceremonial cacao, please send me a note, give me a call, so we can arrange a time for you to stop by and get some.
Wendy:So that does it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you so very much for listening. I'll be back in a few weeks with a surprisingly interesting dive into something we do all the time and take for granted. So that's my new thing on the podcast, the teas.
Wendy:I hope you'll join me then. Until next time.