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A conversation about cars, trucks, tugs and other machines of transport that flows like an ADHD fever dream, hosted by Hoonigan co-founder and 321 Action Action director Brian Scotto. Enjoy, it’s gonna be a bizarre ride.
S2 E15 - Audio
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What's up everybody? Welcome back to yet another episode of Very Vehicular. I'm your host, Brian Scotto, and today we have a very special guest, a dear friend of mine, Mr. Jon Chase. Jon was the creative force behind a lot of Hoonigan's apparel and design. We get heavy into both of our creative processes and our influences.
We talk about. The fear of AI and creativity and how Jon is starting to close this loop and come around to love cars again. We also, of course, wax nostalgic on our time at Hoonigan Power tour, muscle Cars, hot rods, the good times, and even the less good times. Overall, this was a really fun episode for me. It was great to catch up with Jon.
I hope you guys enjoy it too. But first, some quick housekeeping. If you are only listening to this podcast, we wanna let you know that not only is it available on YouTube and video format, but we are now uploading videos to Spotify as well. Check 'em out and again, enjoy the episode. So you probably know these guys best for their killer shop stools.
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They run a great company made here in the USA, so go support them after all they do support us. Legal disclaimer, it might actually be illegal to wear heat waves polarized ultra black lenses while driving, but if you spend a lot of time in violently bright conditions like snow or in the desert, then these lenses are gonna be perfect for you.
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Mr. Jon Chase, welcome to the show.
Hey. Thank you for having me. I'm, it's,
it's been a while, but kind of also not,
uh, not really.
We caught up in the summer. Yes. But then it had been a while before that I feel
like. Oh, yes. That gets the most I've ever talked to you.
Yeah. We just like talked about life stuff, which is good.
'cause I think we saved all like the car stuff for today.
Yeah. I'm, I've been kind of like out of car for a little bit.
You've been out cars for a bit?
Yeah, a little bit. I think
that's, are you still like driving and working on old cars though?
So driving? Yes. Working. Literally, I just bought parts a couple days ago.
I kind of just, I think the thing with me was at Hoonigan it becomes, instead of a hobby, it becomes your main identity. Yeah, yeah. Into your, basically your whole being.
Mm-hmm.
And when you leave that and you go back to being a hobby, for me it was like, I needed like a little break. So, but now I'm slowly getting back into it.
I just went to a cars and coffee at NHA museum, talked to David Kennedy and like, now I'm gonna work on cars again. I've been driving stuff, but just, I need to take a break, so now I'm back into it. So,
yeah. Do you, do you find that balance to be kind of impossible in the business because you've been working in and around cars for like a long time?
Yes. Did, did you? Do you enjoy your relationship with cars more when you're working for a non-car brand than when you're working with a car brand? Because obviously before Hoonigan, you know, for those who don't know, like you did famous stars and straps, but you also worked for a couple toy companies, right?
Yeah.
Um, you obviously did your own thing, which was a destroyer, which you're still doing.
Yeah.
Um, which, which, 'cause I've done both now and I actually have a, I I think, I, I think my feelings are interesting. They've gone back both ways. But what, where are you at?
So for me, I'm always in a season so I could be like, I'm really in the cars right now, like, that's my season, right?
And then I'll wane away and I'd be like, oh, I want to go make toys. I'll do 3D miles. I learned, taught, taught myself 3D modeling so I could make my own action figure and do that stuff. I'll just go back to cars. I think it's the thing where people, like, they'll follow me and be like, dude, this guy isn't talking about cars every day.
I'm like, no. 'cause I like other things
because you're like more than two dimensional. That's weird.
Which people don't like that though. 'cause online they go, you do that thing, I want you to keep doing that thing.
Right? Like, you are, like, you are, you are like 55 Chevy. Like that's what you're supposed to do.
You should, every day of your life, you should be racing Mike Finnegan. That is your role.
Yeah, that's, yeah. Which is crazy.
But
yeah, so it's interesting. So I'm like, that season for me now is coming back right now for cars, which I'm, I'm happy about though. 'cause how
long have you been out of it for you think?
Um, I left Hoonigan four years ago.
So since you left Hoonigan, you feel like
Yeah, I, I would try to go do car. I just couldn't do car.
This car wouldn't car,
car wouldn't car for me. It was weird. So it was like, instead of forcing it, I just needed to take that time to spend time with my family, focus on the kids, build my business, which has been doing very well for me.
Mm-hmm.
Like my turn, my version of success. I feel like I'm done. It, I'm really proud of what I'm being able to do.
Yeah.
And then just also focus on things that more that matter more. And it's right now, 'cause like my mentor, his name is Noah Elias, he always says, think about the end in minds. Like, when you pass away, what do you want everyone to think about you?
It wasn't like, damn, wish my dad worked more. I wish my dad would've been like, gone More. Like, I don't think people really realize when you get, 'cause I really love working with small to medium companies that are very passion driven.
Yep.
But when we were together, we would be gone all day.
Mm-hmm.
Weekends, cross country, whatever, dude.
Like, you don't realize that it affects everyone around you.
Even when you're not physically gone, gone, you're still mentally gone.
Gone. Oh dude. We would go and I would come home on weekends that we were not doing something. I was a zombie.
Yeah.
And I was just like super bummed.
It's interesting 'cause lately I, I just went to, um, the fat ice race.
Mm-hmm. I ran into a bunch of people I haven't seen in, in years Right. Since I was at Hoonigan. And a lot of people ask you like, oh, what are you up to now? Right. I, I'm actually up to a lot. I got a lot of different things going on, but I actually had a really hard time answering it because I realized that when I was at Hoonigan.
There was this like very omnipresent North star.
Yes.
Build the brand, make the brand bigger, make the brand better. Right. Build, build, build. Hoonigan is always first. It's always what you think about where now I've got the podcast and I enjoy this, but it's, you know, this isn't my everything. Right. I'm chasing all these other, other things.
Um, but it means that like I no longer have a North Star and I think I've been like trying to figure out what that North Star is. Yeah. And I actually think that North Star now is actually like, how do I become happy? Because I wouldn't say, I mean, you were there during the GaN days. I, I don't know if I was happy.
I was happy that I was doing stuff. I was happy that we were successful. I was happy that the things we were doing were doing well.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I, and I connected all of my identity to that.
Yeah.
And then when that went away, I was like, oh shit, I don't have identity. And I went and I was like, I'm gonna leave.
I'm gonna go work at super plastic.
Mm-hmm. And
you were probably one of the few people who knew what super plastic was. Yeah. 'cause you live on the art side of things. And it was weird because all of a sudden, like my job wasn't a part of my identity, but which, which was good and bad. Mm-hmm. It meant that like, I could go home at night and, and turn it off and go do something else.
But it also meant that I didn't take as much from it. Like it didn't give me as much. Like it paid me.
Yeah.
But I didn't walk away with it with this like, feeling of fulfillment. Right. Like, it didn't make me feel satiated. So I would do like this whole day at work and then get home and felt like I had to do something else to fill that.
And I couldn't really figure out what that was, you know? So, but, and, and I think to answer to your thing, when I was at Hoonigan, I got, I, I got sick of cars because they were my every day. Mm-hmm. But like, I still, but they, but then they just became work, so I didn't stop doing them when I was aplastic at first, I was excited.
Like I got in track days. I did all this stuff that like, I never had time for at Hoonigan, which I think is such a, which I think to like the average person, like, wait, you worked at this company, it's all about cars and you never had time for your cars. Like, I have more running cars now than I did when I was at GaN because I have like more time to like, just make sure that like, that stuff gets taken care of.
And I also prioritize things differently than I, than I did back in the day. Um, but there was this moment where like, I just realized that I had to go back to cars because like, there was this, this thing, this itch that wasn't being scratched by what I was doing in the world of pop culture and art. Like I just, cars was something that I just felt, I don't know, like, it was just, I realized that as maybe as like, dangerous as it is to have your identity tied to a company or tied to your work.
Uh, I am just, that's just kind of how I'm wired.
Well, that's how you operate. So like, for me, going to sema, everyone gets excited. They're gonna see the cars, right?
Yeah.
I think I saw two cars.
Hmm.
Well, I saw the Liberty Walk stuff, which is now for here is like the thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Right. And I think I saw a couple other cars, but all I wanted do was talk to people.
Right.
Like the cars and I, I didn't even think about it. I felt kind of bad. I'm like, I know I took like maybe 10 pictures of like a sunny pickup outside. Mm-hmm. And there was like old anvil built car that was like, I missed it. I walked right past it. Didn't even realize it because I was overwhelmed by all this stuff.
But
yeah.
And I think it was Bart Hockman. You know Bart, right? Yeah, of course. He's like, it's because you're kind of like, you've seen the, some of the best cars ever built.
Yeah.
In front of us, like, or at work. And just like nor, and not saying sema, builts are normy cars, they're not by any means. Oh, but you just like, I don't feel the time to stop and go look at it and like notice these things because it's like, oh, I haven't seen this person in like a year.
I wanna go talk to him, catch up with them
that, I know you guys hated it, but that's why I loved the one hour special that we did for sema. Because at that point I think we were. You go to SEMA and one, there's so many people you know, that you want to catch up with. And then there's just other people there who are, you know, fans of what we did and wanted to interact with us.
Mm-hmm. So getting a chance to actually take a step back and look at a car for five minutes was impossible at the, I remember. Right. And it still is, but when we did the overnight pass and it was just us out there, nobody was there. Like, it was actually kind of cool 'cause you got to actually like go to me those, even though I know everyone hated it, especially Vinny and hurt because it meant that everyone was there till one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning working instead of going out or sleeping or doing whatever.
But I actually really loved it because, um, I enjoyed it. Made it feel like the first few years I went to SEMA where I could just walk around by myself. Didn't have like, didn't really know that many people there, just walked around and got to look at stuff and like really enjoy it as an enthusiast. Where SEMA is such a different experience now for me is,
well,
you know,
let's, I'm not, I'm not knocking sema.
Yeah.
But this last one feels like complex con for cars. Every interesting booth. And I don't know if it's because of the tariff situation or whatever. Yeah. But almost every manufacturer now was selling merchandise or had something that offer people that you can get in line to buy. Right. Nothing wrong with that because if you, you know, if your fan base cannot afford these coilovers or they can't buy this particular item you sell or the wheels, 'cause they're not in their.
Right.
They can buy a t-shirt or they can get a pin like nothing. That's fine, I get it. But it was interesting that every booth had that now and I seen more, like I'm getting approached by a lot of brands in that space now who are trying to make, I wanna make a lifestyle brand out of my hard parts company.
I think that every brand is trying to be a brand now, which is interesting because I don't know where that leaves the original brands.
Well, there's so much crossover now. 'cause look, nothing, I'm not knocking these dudes.
You can knock 'em. That's okay.
I'm not, no, I'm not knocking because like, DGK is a skateboard brand.
Right. I've worked with Stevie Williams way back in the famous days.
Yep.
Right.
Kayla is a good buddy of mine. Yep.
Kayla. Right. Um, they sold how many t-shirts with the Haie Roku on it? Did they sell?
Yeah,
they're, they, I'm pretty sure. And like all the, a lot of those brands crossed over into automotive that weren't there.
Yeah.
And I'm not knocking it. I get it's a trend.
Mm-hmm.
It's been going on a long time, but it's just like, it's interesting now that cars used to be very underground. Only like the really nerdy people were really into it. Right. Yeah. I'm just thinking maybe like 20 years ago for sure. Muscle car guys before Fast and Furious.
Let's be honest. Let's be very honest with that before that. So
pre 2001,
a hundred percent. So like, let's say mid nineties,
the last century.
Yeah. So most of the car guys were over here. JDM kids were over here and in betweeners were, you know, no one ever crossed over. Right now they crossover so much and it goes back to gatekeeping and all that stuff.
Everything is just crossed over, which I think is, on one side I think it's really great.
Mm-hmm. '
cause everyone can be influenced by everybody and that's awesome. At the same time, there is no, like, and I'm not a purist person at all. Like, I have Ls, a supercharge LS, and I'm 55 with a straight axle. Right.
And I think I might've been the first person to do that actually.
Mm-hmm.
But people, the death threats were gnarly.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's from the old guard saying, you can't do that
because you're not a purist.
I'm not a purist, but like I, my whole thing is like, just everything crossing over is just made everything, there is nothing, there is no, like, what is the culture of it now?
Right.
And I'm just saying that, I'm just, I'm not knocking anybody. I know things have to evolve, but like, it's just weird. Like, I look at it, I saw music is kind of crossed over, like styles of dress doesn't matter anymore. Like you could tell a skater or a BMX dude before. Mm-hmm. And now it doesn't matter.
Like, and maybe it's just me being an old man now 'cause I am, but it's like, there is no, I think taking influence thing is great, but there is like, that essence is missing. Like, it doesn't matter so much anymore. And people, only older people or people who are willing to go deep dive into the co the history of something, the lore of something maybe,
yeah.
Understand it more. 'cause it's, it's kind of weird when you go see like a 70 Chevelle with a huge wide body kit on it with like blisters and stuff on it. And like, it's like what I, I get it. You can build that.
Right.
I don't know. I just think it's interesting that things have crossed so much that it's like you can't even tell, like it's, I guess maybe it's just the iteration has gotten so much and so quickly, especially now with social mm-hmm.
That like these people don't even know where it originated from and they don't care.
So we could literally spend the next four hours unpacking everything you said. 'cause yeah. I think this is so true in so many ways. So the first one I wanna talk about is speed at which people get information. Because I grew up New York City, I was, I started really kind of in skate scene probably about eight or nine when I first like recognized what skateboarding was.
First deck was a, um, well, I borrowed my friend Sunny Hawk Pal Pa Alto Green Deck with the like bird on the bottom, right? Mm. But then eventually I got, um, adjacently Blind Deck with the one with the, the, uh, with Scrooge on, I mean, no, um, uh, the grin on the bottom.
Yeah,
yeah. Right, right. And, um,
but that'd be like 1989 or
1990.
Yeah, it was 89. Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was, I was all of nine or 10 years old at the point, and, um, but I watched all the skate videos, right? Mm-hmm. So like, streets of Fire band, this, right? Like, um, like that was the era of, and that's what introduced me to so much of what I, you know, created me, right? Like it was the, the music, the aesthetic, the style.
I mean, we were wearing things like skids. Do you remember skids? They were like, basically, do you remember the skid? They were like, pajamas. This
is, this is like an East coast thing. I feel like.
Okay. But, but, but no, but these were, so much of the style was really to me, west Coast style.
Mm.
That we were getting and realizing now that like we were getting it a year late because all that stuff was filmed a year earlier, and then it was edited, and then it was put onto a VHS tape, and then that VHS tape was shipped and sold to skate shops.
Yeah. And it took about a year for me to get that. And then we were not instantly influenced. It took a little bit for that influence to hit. And you know, it's where I discovered bands like. You know, black flag and suicide tendencies and, and all these different things that became such a part of like the, of what my childhood identity was.
It like still forms and shapes who I am today. And I think there was this huge window of where that would happen and then the next video would come out and it would be like, oh shit. Like now we're onto the next thing.
Yeah.
But like, I, now, as I, like, I go back and I look at it with a different perspective.
I realize that, you know, it took a year for that information to get from New York, from California to New York City. Right. If you lived in the middle of the country, it might have taken even more because like you didn't have access to the skate videos like we did. Right. Like, you weren't, weren't going to Benji's to go get to go get this.
And I literally name dropped that for anyone who skated back in the day. But like, you know, this is before Supreme, this is before all of that. And you know, the access to that. And then obviously I got into BMX and that and snowboarding and all of that. And now something can happen in the scene in Tokyo and you will see it four minutes later.
Yeah.
And I think in some ways it's amazing that that can happen. Oh, that like four minutes later you're involved, but it also means that everything moves too quickly now. Fashion moves too quickly. Well, yeah. Trends move too quickly and I think no one really gets to embrace them, enjoy them, make them their own.
It's just like you, boom, you're into something else right now. Right? Well,
because the, because the cycle is so quick. There's the micro trend, right, which is based purely off social that could last a week.
Yeah.
And then they're on the next day, some of these kids who are falling things, rotating closets. So insane.
I don't know how their parents can even, or anyone can fund it.
Yeah.
But it is, it's just a bummer. Like you said, no one can marinate in it and be like, this is for me.
Yeah. And I think like in the, the fashion stuff has always maybe been a little bit of a step ahead on the, than the car culture stuff, but it's like,
yeah.
But, but car culture is moving that quickly now too.
It
is where this is not cool anymore. This is cool. Hey, there's this new trend now everybody has this trend. Um, and you know, and I don't, I, I think when I talk to other people, a lot of times people try to sort of like, oh, attack the, this younger generation, right.
Which definitely makes us sound like old dude je in the clouds. I think a lot of it has to do with like, well no, it's, it's the medium that we had when we were younger. You if, you know, if the Super Street guys went to Japan to go cover something, it would be three or four months before we would see it in the magazine.
Right. And then even then it would take longer for it to get there for you to even figure out how to get the parts. Mm-hmm. How for, for you, how to put it together? It's like, now everything is just so rapid that I, I don't know. Like I, I go back and forth like, is it a bad thing? I don't know. When I was a kid, I definitely wanted that information faster.
I mean, I loved the internet when it came around because it was like, wow, look at how quickly I can find out what happened. I mean, remember there'd be like a car show. And like the next day someone would be uploading photos from the car show in a different state. And that felt magical to me.
Well it
is now.
It's literally happening as it's happening. Yeah. Like you can get a live stream of a car show that's in, you know, Germany.
Yeah. But here's the thing also is that then people don't feel they need to go to those things 'cause like, oh I can just stay home and watch it.
Yeah.
They don't go and experience the thing in in, in real life, in real time.
I also feel, with that being said, it's really great. I feel like some people don't, when say you create something and I feel like this way for music especially and film is that people don't take it as has any value anymore because they have access to everything. You don't have to fight to go see things.
Like I just went to go see Jon W's a better tomorrow, 1986. Mm-hmm. Hong Kong classic heroic bloodshed. Right. I bought a ticket 'cause they re-released it into theaters. I was there and one other dude, granted this is a very niche thing. Mm-hmm. In Corona. I'm sure there's not a big audience obviously for it, but I still wanted to go see it 'cause I didn't get to see it back then.
Right,
of course. Yeah.
And then just like, okay, this is cool I'm experiencing, I still had a great time, but a lot of people won't go anywhere to go do things. So that's why I'm so excited about, like my kid, my daughter Penny wants to go to shows, wants to see bands play, wants to see things, go experience it.
'cause she grew up, it's all been online.
Yeah.
And you don't experience that stuff. So I think it's really important that people do that. So like, I know it sounds ridiculous, but like a car show. Okay. But people are still doing it.
Yeah.
But you don't see a lot of younger kids doing it. Pants go.
So the car show's been kind of replaced by the cars and coffee crowd and it's all people our age there, or mostly
yeah,
people our age there.
But that's an easy one. 'cause the, the investment is low an hour. Yeah. Maybe two and you're out.
That's what makes it work.
But yeah. But the whole day thing is like hard and it's weird 'cause everyone's especially out here on the west coast, especially in LA
Yeah.
Everyone's on the upgrade. What could be cooler?
Yeah.
What, what else did I miss out on? It's, it sucks. Like, you can't just be like, I'm gonna go do this thing and enjoy it. 'cause you, everyone's still looking for the next thing.
By the way, speaking of going and watching old movies, that's a huge trend right now.
Yeah.
In that, maybe not of people watching them, but of that showing up because the theater is doing so poorly that you have like, you know, fathom and all these people are saying, Hey, we're gonna do that.
So I, this morning I literally bought tickets to go see the 40th anniversary of Rad.
Oh yeah,
yeah. For Jones PMs film. Mm-hmm. Um, in 4K because I, when I was a kid, I never saw in the theaters. Like I, it was like a cult classic. I saw it probably on a, you know, bootlegged VHS tape or something. Right. So, um, but, and I went to go, I was like, oh, I need to book these tickets.
I got the ad for it.
Yeah.
I was like, I gotta go book these. Like, I hope I didn't miss out and I opened it up and there was not a single seat sold. Yeah. 'cause like, like buy the actual seat. So I bought a couple tickets if you wanna come. It's, uh, it's the end of the month, but Yeah.
But it's, this thing is like.
Everyone's like, oh, I'll just, I'll just watch it at home of the blah, blah, blah. Like, whatever. Dude, it's, it's a bummer. Like, it just, it just trickled down. Everyone feels that way about, like, you can stream any, remember the thing about streaming too, I don't wanna get on this tangent, but I will about Watch whatever you want.
Anytime you want Forever. And guess what, no, everybody has licensing on different platforms. It sucks. So, I've been going out, every time I go to a thrift store or a record spot and they have DVDs, I'm just scooping 'em all up. Mm-hmm. Because I'm thinking about just making my own server and running off a plex and just have everything on it's redundant drives and screw it.
I'm just gonna run my own thing in the house because it's such a bummer.
No, I get it. Yeah.
And it's, it sucks, but I mean, I, I don't know, dude. It's just all this sh it just makes things have so little value to people.
Well, I, one thing I wanna rewind to is disposable of things. Yes. Because as someone who creates it kind of sucks to make things that now feel disposable.
Or it's like very timely. Yeah. And
like
that's it,
you know, to like spend time like, you know, again, I was at Ice Race, I made this quick little video for the guys at PBI and it's like, you know it, it'll go up and within 12 hours no one cares anymore. Like you're onto the next thing. '
cause we're all been trained.
Yeah.
Next thing. Next thing. And the next thing. And it sucks.
It's hard to put a lot of time into making something that, you know is just not going to be enjoyed that way.
Well I make artwork.
Yeah.
That I paint pictures and I either don't show people or I just, I barely talk about it. 'cause I know it's like, it's not the people who follow me wanna see car stuff.
Yeah.
And they'll wanna see like, oh, you made this cool design that they can wear. They're not there to, like, not all of them. There's some people who do buy
mm-hmm.
My print stuff like that. And it's cool, I appreciate everyone who does that. 'cause it shows another level of engagement and they feel like they're, they're supporting in a different way.
Right. But it's like sucks. Is that when you make something like that and you know that people are like, oh, that's cool. That's how everyone is now. Like, you have to do a dance or be caught like on fire or something ridiculous. And now with all the slop, I'm gonna call it slop. I don't care what Microsoft says, it's
not, it's fucking slop.
Fuck ai.
It's garbage. And like now that's what gets people to stop and look is ridiculous stuff.
And the sad thing is, is I think there's a lot of people out there that you're hearing say, oh, this stuff isn't good. Like no one cares. People don't really want slop. But if you look at the metrics, the slop is winning.
Like, and it is overs saturating the space. Right. And there's only, there's only so many hours of the day that eyeballs can watch content.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, we were lucky with the Hoonigan thing, and I think that this is something we don't talk about much, but it's like, we were there before the market got oversaturated.
Yes.
So, like, we got there. We weren't first a lot of other people doing it before us. Roadkill was doing it before us. Mighty Carma was doing it before us. Donut was doing it, before us granted a different style. But they were then what? That made them famous. But they were doing it. Um, you know, 13, 20, there was a bunch of people who were haggard.
There was a ton of people who were doing it before us. Um, one of the reasons we won was we just did a lot more of it.
Well, that and also is very relatable.
Yeah. We, and, and, but still, we were lucky that we were there at a certain time.
Yeah.
Right. And it was, it was the right time. Now it's like, there's so many automotive creators who are making great content.
I mean, there's a bunch of, like, I, I'll like randomly show up on someone's YouTube page because I searched something and I'll watch it. I'll be like, oh, this is really good. Like, I had, I had no idea this person even existed. And then I'll like click in and I'll be like, wow, this person has 300,000 followers and I am unaware of who they are.
Where, rewind back to 2019. And I knew everybody who was making content. I probably had their phone, phone numbers, right. Like it was such a smaller world. So that became harder. It became more and more to watch. And now AI has come in and will just duplicate. That number by like, and all of a sudden the real creators will become 30% and 70% of the content content out there will be AI generated content.
And at that point, even just swimming through the slop to get to good content will be fatiguing.
I don't think people even go that far. I think they'll just drop out and go like, cool, I'm just gonna,
yeah. Well, do you think that brings back though a return to like, do you think there will be this return maybe to something that feels more analog or something that feels more tangible?
A
hundred percent.
You talk about your daughter and I think you have a, an interesting perspective. 'cause you have a, a child who's young and is sort of, what is she? She's Z Gen or Agen. Agen, right?
Yeah. She
would be, or Gen A, whatever. Yeah. Like so Alpha. Um, so that she actually does see an interest in something that's tangible again.
Well, because Is
that 'cause of you or?
Yes.
Okay.
Of me. 'cause she goes in the studio and like, she just found out recently like, oh you did, I've worked in the music industry.
Right.
I did those, I did the packaging for that. I did that stuff. It's like, oh. So she goes in my studio and goes like, there's all my records.
I've been buying records since I was 13. I still have 'em all. Yeah. I still buy records. Right. I never stopped. It wasn't cool. It was just like, that's what I wanted to do. Right. Like, I recently, um, rebuilt, not rebuilt, replaced the battery in my iPod. I know everyone's talking about this stuff. Like yeah, it's still digital, but there's no algo.
Mm-hmm. I control it and I run, it's all music I want to hear and I'm not, you know, feeding. Some corporation. Yeah. I know. This is a bunch of old guys sitting on a, on a, on a porch now rocking and complaining about shit. But it's true.
Yeah. But I like, I think there's some things that I enjoy about new technology and I'll be, I'll admit it.
I'll admit it. Right. Um, I think there's some things that are great. Like, I like GPS navigation. It's, it's great.
Oh, it's great.
S Right.
I show my kids Thomas guide. They're like, what is this?
Yeah. And like Matt Quest was like, miserable. Remember you like, print out pages, go somewhere. Although I still do enjoy, I do enjoy, like, for me it was r McNally Thomas, I feel like is more of like a hundred percent, but still, like I, I, I still enjoy the fact that like, I know how to read a map.
Yeah. Which sounds so crazy to think of that as a skillset. But today it is.
But the power goes out.
You hurt. You
could do it.
When we first started at Hoonigan, hurt took navigation to my house. 'cause we had the downtown LA office. Mm. To my house in Venice. He took navigation there every day. And I'm like, hurt, don't you?
Like, haven't you just figured out how to get to my house? He's like, no. Every day it takes me slightly different based on traffic. I was like, do you think you could get to my house today without this? He's like, no, absolutely not. I was like, wait, so you just don't know how to get to my house? He's like, no, I just listened to whatever the GPS tells me.
And I was like, that's, that's interesting.
I'm not knocking technology.
No.
There's a lot of things that technology has done that made things great.
Yeah, it
has. It is made people's lives better. It's enriched us, but there's certain things I think is better.
Yeah.
That should just be done.
Is there
any
part of AI that you think is good?
I am super disappointed. I shouldn't say this. I'm not really fair. People are so happy to say I use it every day. It makes every decision in my life. And I find that to be sad that you can't even make a simple decision.
Right.
But that's their, that is their choice. Right. I think if it's gonna cure cancer a hundred percent.
Mm-hmm.
If it's gonna make certain things easier, like on the art side, there's certain things that have been implemented that like, okay, I don't have to path out a person or this, that's cool. That saved me like three hours. That's cool. Yeah. But when it tells me like, this is what you should be making. Or when people tell me like, well, we're just gonna use AI to make these designs because it will just tell, Ugh.
But here's the thing, clients never know what they want, so I'm not worried about
it. Well, that's the old joke, right? Yeah. And it was like. Yeah. It's like AI's not gonna take your job because the client didn't know what they wanted to begin
with. A hundred percent. So I think there's some benefits to it, but I think people were relying on too much and it's really getting shoved down on its throat.
Yeah. And are seeing, it's only a handful of companies and just seeing, they're just doing this.
So there's this, there's an account that has been popping up. I don't, I don't remember what it was called, but there's an account that's been popping up in my feed of ai, like designed cars.
Hmm.
And like, we lived through this already with the renders.
And look, there's some, like, I love Kai. There's some really cool stuff he's developed, um, that it always sort of lived in a world where I knew it was a render.
Yeah.
But there's this new one that's been showing up in my feed, and you may have seen it, this account was posting like slammed vera crosses like a slammed vera cross.
And the photos make it look real. Right?
Yeah.
And I was like, oh shit, that's really cool. And then I quickly looked at like, the name of the account and realized like, oh, this is just like AI generation. And it's still cool. It's a cool design. I would've liked it more if, you know, maybe if Kaiser had designed it.
But there's something about it where I, I almost feel like, like I don't, like, I wanna see the car in real life, but I probably never will. But it doesn't even matter to people because like, the idea almost fully feels fully executed. Hmm. Where, and you know, and like to try to, to really, 'cause I'm thinking through this for the first time in my life right now on the pod.
Back in the day, like if you were designing a car, and I've been involved in designing a lot of cars, right? Everything from, you know, uni corn to shit car. You would start with like a sketch.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Shit. Car is a design.
I mean, well
maybe the last generations of it, but
not
the previous
ones. Yeah.
But you know what I'm saying? Like yeah, yeah. We designed delivery at least for it, you know,
in the parking lot with, with blue tape.
Yeah. But whatever
tape, it's fine.
But you know, no, I think we actually did a drawing, I think the first one, like, it was like a quick sketch. It was like a napkin sketch. Oh yeah,
yeah, yeah.
I have it. Yeah.
But my point is, is that you sit there and you, you know, you, you see it, you see it go through the render phase and then when you see it finally become real life, it feels like that was the purpose there. But now there's all this stuff that gets built that like never will see real life, um, or never gets created to it.
And sort of like, takes away a bit for me of um, like as much as I would love to see that, that Vera Cruz, I know that AI built it. I know that or Vera cross or the hell it is. Um, I know that like AI built it. I know that none of the proportions actually make sense. I know none of that was taken into consideration No.
As to like how it would work. And I know like no one has the intention of building it because it was too easy to make and just kind of throw out there and. And it sort of takes away the reward of like if someone actually went to go build it.
But it's the same thing though, right? See? Is the access is too easy.
There's actually no reward, there's no, there's nothing to it. It's just air. Yeah. It's just, it's a moment of your attention that's onto the next one.
Yeah.
So like when people are actually out blocking cars and doing and making fiberglass or doing whatever and building it, it's cool, right? Yeah. But now you can literally have like, oh, gimme 40 more iterations of this same design.
Right.
And are they ever gonna make it?
Yeah. I don't know. I wonder if it's like, 'cause in the last podcast I had Hil brand on and we were talking about motorsports and how like the modern day racing sort of removes the human element because it's all about the machine. It's no longer about the driver, right?
It's all about, it's all about, you know, how good is the aerodynamics? How good is the tractor control? How good is the machine?
Not like the old back in the,
back in the day when you were watching a driver collect something as like, it steps out on a corner. Mm-hmm. It's about the driver's ability to connect.
We're not saying that the current drivers aren't as good as those old drivers, but we're saying that the machines don't show that anymore. Mm-hmm. You don't get to see that piece of it. Right. And I think in the same aspect of what we're talking about here, it's like, it's sort of the same thing where like, that thing looks really cool, but a computer thought it up and, and for some reason, for me, that's dismissed over someone like ael going through the process of.
You know, painstakingly designing a corner or doing this or tweaking that or doing that versus going in and saying, okay, this thing has access to God knows how many images and just takes it all and says, okay, well this is what we know people like, and then we're gonna build there and then we're gonna create that.
And that is very algorithmic in itself. Like AI in many ways, like any large language model is an algorithm.
Mm-hmm.
So the biggest issue I have with algorithms in content is that they, they flatten the creative curve because once something works and then they, they just keep making the thing that works.
And you'll notice with the Netflix you'll start to notice like, man, all these shows start to kind of feel the same.
Well they are. Look at thumbnails on YouTube.
Right.
If yell when yellow became a color, guess what?
And we did it.
Yeah,
yeah. Because it worked better.
Yeah. But, and
then everybody does it. So, I mean, the thumbnail for this show is a yellow variation.
It's like a yellow green. Yeah.
But so the thing is like the craft is pulled away, but if you see the person doing it, cool.
Right.
You can justify like okay, someone took time in that.
Yeah.
That's how Al is too. Al like will take his time doing that stuff. Yeah. He's a lot of stuff for Liberty Walk and that's like, you know, pretty gnarly stuff.
So it's just interesting, like if you don't know that, and here's the thing, as more of these accounts keep getting generated, 'cause they're probably not even run by actual person at all. Mm-hmm. That just steps further away from the craft. People don't even realize, like there might even, some people, kids might grow up and they like never know that someone actually physically made something by hand to go on something.
Right.
Because you could be like, oh, we'll put it in the machine. The machine kicks it out, then the machine can expand to it to make the 3D model, then they could be kicked out to be rapid prototyped.
Right.
You know, I mean, there's nothing wrong with the idea of it evolving. It's just like, if we take too much of the people out of it.
Well, and I think that's, I think that's where it is for me. It's like, by the way, this, this CROs was dope. It was No, I'm not saying like, it makes me wanna go build it. Um, but at the same time, yeah, there's like this feeling like this weird, like, it, it's, and I don't know, maybe I'm just old, but like I wanna know that humans are involved in the process.
Right.
So like that's where, so I feel like modern, I don't wanna call it tuner culture, but that's what you would probably, if you said that people would Okay. Understand that if you go back to low writing or you go to custom culture, like my buddy EOG is just did, he just did a twisted grill out of like bars.
Mm-hmm.
And this dude's 64, 65 El Camino and he bent everyone ti torched it and bent it all right. Mm-hmm. By hand. And that's cool. I appreciate because I know is do I appreciate, here's the thing, maybe I'm getting stuck on it. He's like, I'm appreciating his process of taking his time to do it. And I know it's like, that's not something you just, and just knock it out.
It's like you spend time on it. And I appreciate that more. It's like watching someone do. Pinstriping or something that's like, I appreciate that. 'cause it's something, and it can be imperfect. Yeah. That's what makes it humid.
I saw this thing the other day, I thought it was interesting. It said, um, uh, if you work with your hands, you're a laborer.
If you work with your hands and your brain, you're a craftsman. If you work with your hands, your brain and your heart, you're an artist. And like, it's kind of cliche, but I think that like in a time today where everything is starting to move to how fast can we make it?
Mm-hmm.
Like the heart is very often not included.
And the, and the, and the brain has been replaced by the computer and like, no one's building with their hands. So it's like, what, even, what even is that anymore that, that we have? And I think that this is an interesting time for us to be in because, um, I, I can't help but feel like when, when these things become so disposable and you don't care about them anymore, now there's just some, like, what do you care about?
Well, that's, I think what, that's where we're at right now. Right. Yeah.
My 6-year-old this morning asked Ashley like, what a hobby is
because everyone's been taught to monetize your hobbies, to make it your profession.
Yeah. Well, and and that's exactly, I mean, you're jumping the, the punchline on this. And I said, I said, I have lots of hobbies.
And he's like, like what? And I was like, well, cars. And he said, that's your job. I was like, oh yeah, I guess that kind of is. But I, I think like the hobby, like where does your hobby go if everything becomes too easy, like making it, like, for me, I enjoy the struggle that cars are. I do.
No, you
enjoy it. I enjoy, I enjoy the struggle.
You enjoy having a dead battery, but like, but 'cause you have so many of things around to like, you need so much stimulation in your life.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
That it's hard for you to focus in. It's like when you laser in on something, it's rad. And I'm excited for you. Like this podcast right here is something you talked about probably six is years.
Easily.
Easily.
Right. And I remember the studio was set up.
Yeah.
And
we built a small studio. Yeah. In the original 6 21. Mm-hmm. We did a podcast with Tony Angelo as a test pod.
Yeah.
And then it never went anywhere. Well Tony got the job at, at MotorTrend
Plus also podcasting was still a very fringe thing.
Yeah. It wasn't like how it is now.
Yeah.
But I'm proud of you
that now every white dude with a beard has one. So
it's great.
They just hand them out.
Yeah. I don't have one. I'm just guessing. But I'm glad you did that 'cause that's something that you've always wanted to do. You love talking.
Mm-hmm.
So it's perfect for you.
So I, I'm sure people have already told you that about that, but like, and said that to you. But I'm glad that you got to go through that and it's still adjacent to the hobby. And you get to talk to all these people 'cause you have such a, your, your Rolodex, that's a super old term, but it's so filled with full of people that you can call on to do that and share that with you.
It's awesome. So I'm really stoked for you on that.
And, and one of the things too, as we're getting into this, a lot of people have asked me like, Hey, why, why the podcast? And one is that it's actually the medium that I mostly, you know, consume, right? Like I mostly consume other podcasts, so it's like I'm making something that's similar to what I consume, but two in this moment where everything is becoming as short form as possible, uh, this is one of the few long form things that is working.
It's true,
right? Like this pod very well may very well be two plus hours. And there, and when you look at the, the graph of people listening to this, the fall off is minimal. Like once they're locked in, they listen to the end and it's like, and I love seeing that out of a current day audience, which isn't just like, I'm in for 30 seconds and I'm out.
Yeah. But we, everyone's been conditioned to be. I
know.
It's so gnarly. I know. When you see people with the light, it just turned red on their phone. I'm like, bro, what are you doing? And then the light turns green and they're still locked into the next, uh, I mean whatever. But, uh. Yeah. I'm glad to hear that though.
We're definitely
two old guys complaining about the future or the present day. It's not, it's the present, but, but I do it because I, I enjoyed what came with a slower way of consuming content years ago than what I do now. Like, I, I, I think the best thing I ever heard is social media is junk food.
Totally.
Right? It's junk food and it gives, and it, it makes you feel full while you're scrolling it very quickly and, but you don't feel satiated and it's not like a real meal. Right? Mm-hmm. And I can scroll for, I mean, and I've done it, like, I'll be the first, I could scroll Instagram for hours, hours and hours and hours.
And when I'm done it feels like dirty. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm like, oh, you take a
shower now,
you go cry in the corner. Yeah. Like, yeah. It's like, it's like, you know, you're, why did I do that? Right? And
because it's easy.
But if I went and watched a really good film, or even a okay film, or even a bad film, but like, like, but I got to go watch this work that someone put into making this thing.
And you walk away from it, you're like, oh, okay. That was like, like, I felt like that was time well spent.
Mm-hmm. And
I don't know where that difference is. 'cause like, I'm still sitting there fixated on a screen,
but it's a different
experience. But it's, it's a different experience. It's, it's different way of consuming story.
And I think that's one of the things I like about the pods and, and not just my podcast, but anyone's podcast is like, it's one of the few things that's still breaking through that people will listen to for a long time. And one of the interesting things about this one is I think there's a lot of people who listen to this, that haven't listened to pods before.
They found this because of my connection to Hoonigan and that type of content. And they're the ones who always reach out to me and being like, I was just gonna listen to a few minutes, and then all of a sudden, three hours passed by. But I'm stoked that I got like to hear that.
Well, that's good though,
right?
Because you could deliver something that people could actually get invested in. Right? Because I guess the problem is that I really like the ritual of things. Mm-hmm. Like, oh,
you
were very ritualistic.
Yeah. I like, I'm, that's my thing though. Yeah. Because like to me it's like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go be creative.
I have my way of doing it, and I get myself prepared for it.
Right?
Like, if I wanna go listen to a record, I'm putting it on a turntable and I'm gonna listen to it.
Right? Yeah.
Even if I don't work,
you and I probably have never said this to you, but you live the life that my brain wishes it did. Right. And, and I don't even say that as a joke.
Like, I remember once we were sitting in like a meeting and, um, you know, and, and for, for everyone who's listening, uh, Jon joined Hoonigan early, even though it didn't feel like early to me because you weren't there in the first two or three years, but you were there. When we were still in downtown LA
Yeah.
So you came with us to the move to Long Beach. You were there before we did anything on YouTube outside of the Gymkhana films or Small one-offs or something like that. So like you kind of, you really were there and you were there, you know, and when we, we did Power Tour, I mean, you and I are the reason together why we did Power Tour because, and that power tour was the case study for could we go do more content and should we go do more things as us Yeah.
Instead of like just supporting the Ken's BJ Baldwins, Ryan Turks, Chris Forsbergs, and so on. Right. Um, but anyway, I was sitting next to the meeting and I looked at your to-do list and it was broken down by times.
Yes.
And it wasn't even just like in the five minute interval, it was like, it was like, I think it was even less.
It was like 8:43 AM this, and I, I wish I could do that. But you have a, you are very ritualistic in the way you do things. I, I am not unfortunately, like my life is absolute chaos in, in how I make everything.
But you like that? Do you
thrive in any I don't think I like it. I think I am good at it. And, and I, I apologized to, to Teague about this at one point because I, Teague was so stressed about something and I said, look, I'm I, I'm sorry I do so well in chaos that sometimes I feel like I create chaos just because.
It's like what I'm good at, right? It's like, for example, it's like to compare it to like mma. Mm-hmm. It's like if, like if I'm a grappler, like I'm gonna bring you to the ground. It's like, well, if I'm a chaos goblin, I'm gonna create chaos for everybody. So that I am very good in this situation. Right.
Because what is for you is that you can focus on that chaos and work through it.
Oh, like I am good in chaos actually. It's, it's part of the A DH ADHD thing. Yeah. It's like, it creates the dopamine, the, the fear, the
urgency.
Yeah. Because adrenaline and dopamine are, are similar drugs. They can be kind of swapped out.
Mm-hmm. So it's like, I can just use the adrenaline to, to do what I need to get done. And you add chaos and fear and all these things and you're like, oh cool. This is what brings me to life. Right. Um, where you, that didn't work for you at all. Like, I think that was actually problematic for you because you, like you knew every day what you were gonna do when you got to, I
know what I'm doing next week at this time.
I know. It's why it's been so hard to book you for this pod because every time I'm trying I'm
booked out.
You're booked out.
But here's the thing is like, that's how I can function and be like, I'm done working for the day. I can go home and go be dad, be husband.
Yeah.
I have, and
that's the, and that's I think, the part that I'm most jealous of
because that's for me success now.
Right. Oh, hey everybody, here we are for another story time interruption brought to you by my good friends at FCP Euro. If you're at all familiar with my build, you know that I'm not really good at, um, let's just say this. I'm the king of scope creep. I had an Audi Quatro that I was gonna build into a 500 horsepower driver.
It was a pretty simple established recipe to do this. But no, instead I decided to make it into a 1000 plus horsepower race car that still doesn't run. The bad news is, is I also scope creep maintenance. The other day went for a nice drive in the RS two. It was a spirited one, hit some canyon roads.
Everything was great. So I went around one corner and I heard a very familiar clunk. This clunk to Volkswagen Audi guys is nothing other than a blown strut bearing. It happens a lot, especially when driving slammed cars. And while most people would probably be dismayed at the tedious task ahead of them, not I, I saw this as an opportunity.
Yeah, an opportunity to finally fix that clicking CV joint, get after the bushings or the brakes that needed an overhaul. You know, head on over to FCP Euro and just fill the cart with everything I can find underneath suspension brakes, and even steering. Hey, why not? And you know, then take apart other parts of the car and probably never put it back together.
And this is kind of what I'm known for. If you two are like this, you can go to fcp euro.com and scope creep. Even the most basic maintenance FCP Euro doesn't judge, they'll be your plug to this horrible, bad habit we have.
Because that's for me, success now.
Right?
Because like I was like. I've worked with a lot of brands I worked on, I've been really fortunate to work on brands that have become madder than the space famous, no matter what anyone says about it.
And Travis,
just, just for the people who are listening who don't know, I was just list some of the, or all the brands or a lot of the brands that you've worked or had a major part working with because, so like, it, it's a pretty impressive list.
I mean, it's wild. 'cause like, here's the thing, I never stopped to think about it until my kids started asking me about it, right?
So like, I was an industrial rubber hose sales guy. I worked as a, as a driver and an assembler making hydraulic hose and concrete hose. I did that for eight years. I was outside sales guy. I got the opportunity to go start the apparel world by my buddy Max Carma. He was working at Famous Stars and Traps at the time for Travis Barker.
I gave myself one calendar year. I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna try this. If I don't make it, I'm gonna sit in my cubicle and sell water hose and concrete hose till I can't do it anymore. Six months, I got my job, I quit that play. Uh, a SJ walked down, I go, Hey, I'm, I'm leaving. I'm giving you 15 minutes. And I went to go work at a place.
I didn't sign any paperwork. I did not want to, you're giving
15 minutes.
After I worked there eight years, I gave 15 minutes. But my boss, who's the owner, Alan Wakefield's, like, I know this is what you wanna do. I'm totally cool with it.
Yeah,
right. I walked, I could have famous. Don't sign anything. Don't even, I'm gonna get paid.
Yeah. Don't even know what's happening. I go sitting there. I didn't know. I only used Photoshop. I didn't use Illustrator. I taught myself Illustrator over the weekend. That's what I've been using all the time, basically to this day. But like I worked with Famous Stars and straps. I left there, started a destroyer.
My own thing did. I've worked with, uh, Masto doing product design, which led me to other, working with other die cast companies. I worked with Hot Wheels recently. Did CoLab with them. I've done some with UFC. I've done, geez, Hoonigan was another cultural thing like that was mattered in the space really. So I've had that opportunity.
Currently I'm working with DBK, which is Dirt Bike Kids. Mm-hmm. Which is Twitch, Jeremy Steinberg. Like, they, they were great. It has very early famous days and energy of Hoonigan.
I could see that. Yeah. Twitch is great.
Super nice guy. And they, they know exactly who they are, which is really awesome. Mm-hmm.
Okay. And I'm trying to think. I don't know, man. I've worked with, I'm like blanking right now 'cause it's been a lot, like I've worked in the music industry. I've worked, like Jermaine Dupree would fly in sitting next to me. I would go through his ideas and I did the collab with Soso Deaf and Famous. Mm-hmm.
When he came back, and this is when I got Big Timed, I'm like, he got like 20 boxes of stuff. I'm like, how you gonna check that? He is like, what? Pj Like the airport's right there, you can see out the window. Like, oh, big timing. But it was like that stuff and Little Jon hanging out like he wanted to make white kid, like punk rock clothes.
It was so weird, like mm-hmm. I've had a lot of interactions with people through the years and I don't know, it's, I've been fortunate. I've been the right place, right time. But I think what it is for me is like my organization is what I bring to the table and the design stuff is like secondary. Mm-hmm.
Because almost every brand I've worked with is a bunch of people who have no experience in what they're doing.
Yeah.
I'm like, gravitate towards that. And once the brand starts to really take shape and the suits show up,
you leave.
That's when I
leave. Yeah. You left at the right time.
Yeah.
Because you left tune at the right time.
Because I knew what was gonna happen. Yeah. There's no way,
you know, you could've told me, I think you kind of did, but
I, yeah, but here's the thing, it's like, I just know it can't, the passion, those brands have passion like that when suits show up, they don't understand it.
Yeah.
They just want to ex, I don't wanna say exploit it.
They wanna leverage it the most they can and make as much as they can. Like I've made, I've, for my career right now, at 23 years, I've done over $200 million in like, revenue for these companies and still growing every day.
Yeah.
So it's pretty wild. So it's just like, it's been a crazy ride for me so far.
I'm actually kind of surprised I'm still able to do it. 'cause you sat me down like, oh, you're not gonna be doing this forever. There's no way. Like your, your role is gonna change and things are gonna change. And I'm like,
hmm.
I don't know. And I haven't,
yeah,
I've been fortunate. I don't know how much longer they're gonna be like, Hey, old guy, can you make cool stuff?
It's hard to like, think about it. Like, I have make stuff for like teenagers.
Yeah.
And they're like,
oh, and you're a lot older than you look too. I don't wanna,
no, man,
the gray is, I, I don't wanna dox your age, but you're definitely a lot older, so.
Yeah. It's But not bad. It's not a bad
thing. No, it's not a bad thing.
I'm just saying that like, I think a lot of people pass you for like being my age or younger and you're obviously not so,
yeah.
Which I didn't realize you were like, we're gonna Hoonigan for like a year before someone's like, wait. I was like, what? I didn't thought Chase was that old.
Yeah. Anyways. It's fine.
Like, me and Nads are like around the same age group basically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Nads looks old.
Nads has had a hard life. Had a hard life. So I, yeah, I, I don't know, I can't remember. We even started with this conversation right now. This
No, I, I was kind of trying to bring some, you know, I think it's interesting 'cause you have had a chance to do all this really cool stuff and you didn't come into it in the regular path.
No.
And now, 'cause you, you said so much in the opening of this that I'm just trying to go back to some of those things and bring 'em back up and it's like, you know, I think it's interesting to see how fast everything's moving. And I think that we don't get to enjoy it 'cause it moves so fast and that that speed is what creates the disposable of it.
But I think one of the other things that you brought up early on was just this like, like lack of tangibility. That like, things just don't feel as whatever. And, and cultures are also so crossed and blended that. Where do you even pull inspiration from anymore? Because it's all one thing. Like we, it's, it's, so, when we were growing up, and this is an interesting thought that I was thinking about the other day.
We grew up in like the monolith kind of concept, right? Like in that episode of Roseanne Barr, where Jon Goodman goes and beats up the dude for beating up her sister.
Yep.
We all remember that. See I brought up, we all remember that moment. You probably have goosebumps about it, right? And then he goes and gets arrested, like, you know, and like that
Dan goes to jail.
Yeah. And it's like everybody remembered that moment because we all watched it together. Right Now that doesn't exist anymore. Nope. We all live in different rabbit holes. We all see different things, but in a weird way, like things that used to feel unique like art and design now feel monolithic, like now, now feel like the same to me.
Like those actually don't feel as separated as they did when I was younger. Like it feels like it all just sort of blends, right? Like I look at street wear, I look at car culture stuff. I look at this, it's like, and it's all the same now where like when you and I were designing stuff for Hoonigan, like our stuff didn't look like diamond.
No.
Like Diamond was the number one selling thing. Now Diamond stuff looks like what our stuff used, if they even exist. But like DG KI don't know. Sorry, Nikki. Like, I'm not sure where they're at these days, but like, but DGK is a good example. I remember one point DGK wanted to do a call out with Hoonigan.
Yeah. I went down there and talked to him.
Yeah. And Ken shut it down.
Yeah.
And he was like, he, and the reason he shut down was 'cause he was like, it just doesn't make sense to me like they're a skateboard brand. Like, what are we doing with them? Like, why is that gonna happen? Right. And you know, and, and it wasn't, he loved Kayla.
He loved the, he loved Stevie. Yeah. He loved all those dudes, but it didn't make sense to him at the moment.
Well, he also said, I don't want to be a culture vulture.
Right. Well that was his, he was, he, he had a rule, which I think unfortunately Hoonigan has since broke, which was that we would never put Hoonigan on a skateboard.
Yeah. And I did it.
What
I did it, when we did those Huna, like the Huna corn boards, they were up at Wahoos and he found out well
yeah, but that was that. But that was like, that's complete. That was like a one off
Yeah.
Wahoos thing. But when, but he, that was the reason for the DGK thing mm-hmm. Was he didn't want Hoonigan to end up on a skateboard because it didn't make sense to him.
Yeah. To him. DGK was a skateboard company. We were a car company and there, and he felt like it was almost like him leveraging his skateboard roots to like put Hoonigan in that space. And he felt like it was unauthentic
a hundred percent.
But now it's like. I mean, how many skateboards do you see that everybody has of their car brands on skate like skateboards?
No, it's, it
is, it's all just like, it's all this like weird blend to me, which in some ways is like the, I guess there's a coolness to it, but it's like, it's like when you, you get far enough down making like a soda suicide where it all just tastes the same.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying? Like, you put enough flavors in and it just becomes like blah.
Remember this conversation we had with Ken, it was a Toyo Hoonigan shirt and we couldn't have Hoonigan on the tire 'cause we don't make tires.
Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was
captain literal sometimes
Ken was very, very literal about that kind of
stuff. But it's okay though. 'cause I think I had this conversation with someone recently.
They asked about working with Ken in
the end, didn't we put Hoonigan in the smoke?
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's
which worked,
which was good. Yeah. And it made sense and uh, I think I had this conversation with somebody about Ken. I go, you know what really helped me is when Scotto, maybe he suggested getting Agents a change.
Mm-hmm.
Which is a great book.
Yeah. Yeah.
He gives you a clue into his mind of how he saw the world and how he saw how opportunities were there. And it was just,
yeah.
It was such a good thing. I bought copies to leave for everybody. I don't think anyone in the art department read it, but it was still there.
It is a fantastic story. It gives you, it helps you understand Ken. Um, you know, one of the Ken things that is interesting, you brought this up because you definitely, of all people saw the wrath of Ken's creative critique.
Bro, I almost quit in 2018. I had to fly to Park City for a 50 minute meeting with him.
Yeah.
That wasn't even something that we, we could have, FaceTimed
could have been an email,
could have been an email. He shows up Uhhuh. We look at some things. I can't remember what it was. I was so, dude, I sat at the airport for six hours for my flight home.
Yeah.
I was like, this just happened. This will never happen again.
Yeah. I, it's funny 'cause I always say whenever I like, you know, after Ken passed, there's like a lot of people who sort of have, and I won't name names, but who've sort of kind of been like, oh, Ken was such a mentor to me. He was so inspirational. And I was like, you never worked with Ken.
I know who you're talking about.
We won't say names in those
names,
but, but, but my point is, is that if you worked with Ken, Ken was one of the best mentors in the world. But he was, and and he taught me 80% of what I know and the other 20% of what I know he put a lens on. Right. Helped me understand it. And, and I think one of the things that Ken liked about me was I fought with him.
Right. Mm-hmm. Most people wouldn't, and I would fight with Ken and, and argue with him on things, but he made me, those arguments were strong because those arguments fortified my ideas. Like the concept of bulletproofing was something that Ken was really into. I was really into it as well. And I know that that was really painful for a lot of other people, you know, in the creative space.
'cause it's like, Hey, I've got this really great idea. And I'm like, do you?
Yeah,
let's tear it apart because if we don't, someone else will. Right? And like that was that thing. But, but you saw it first hand because like, Ken was really difficult to work with.
I wouldn. Here's the thing, he, here's the thing. He knew he was, but at the same time I give this man credit because he knew what he wanted.
He had a, he had an experience in the design side of things. He went to school for that.
Yeah.
So he could say things like this and he could say why, which is the greatest thing. 'cause he could say like, I don't like it because of this like, like, cool.
Yeah.
Everybody else, this is what we don't do.
Yeah.
But that's great.
'cause then we can move on to things He did like, 'cause like the last thing I did with him was, it's a living stuff that was like 80 pieces.
Yeah, it was,
that was narrowed down from like 200 and that ended up being for me, is one of my favorite. I didn't do the artwork. I justed the dots.
You're just manipulating someone else's artwork.
Yeah, but I connected dots, I brought the, 'cause that project was dawn, 'cause COVID hit and I brought it back. I was like, that's my, some of my most favorite stuff to ever work on. Yeah. Just because it was a t-shirt, it was a Moderna chair, it was everything in between. It was granted that last piece, probably a little out of the box definitely was outta the box, but he knew what he wanted and we could make that happen for him.
That's like the most, that's probably one of my, that's definitely one of my favorite
Yeah.
Collections ever.
The modern chair was my fault, but yeah.
But it's okay though. I never got one. 'cause I had the sample. Wait, really? I got the sample and Ken needed to shoot with it, so I took it outta the studio and gave it to him.
I'm like, oh man, grab one.
I, I may have a spare for you. Oh,
that'd be so sick.
Sick. Yeah. You deserve one. Other people have asked me for 'em, but you deserve one spare. So when I was leaving, there was a couple and I grabbed them. So dude, because I had the ones in my office, I took those when I left. Oh, okay.
Dope. So
that'd be rad. But yeah, so like working with Ken was challenging, but I will say I've worked with other people in the past. I'm not gonna say names,
I know those names,
but. Very difficult. Yeah. Because they don't have their true north. They don't know exactly what is,
but as a creative, did you find me difficult to work with?
A hundred percent.
Yeah, exactly.
But I,
I think good creativity has friction.
It has to,
it has to.
So here's the thing is like, I remember you and I early in the days would spend a lot of time together.
Yeah. It was better then. It was better.
Well, it was easier 'cause it
was lot fun. I was very, I I will admit I was very absent dad in the latter years.
'cause I was just No, no, no. There were too many things going on.
No, no. Day one I show up, I pull the door open. I think I'm gonna go HRD. It's a dirty warehouse. Napalms over there before his napalm, Tork stein's over there in pieces. The Huna corns underneath, underneath the tarp. And then Scotto was gone for a month 'cause he's helped editing gym Seven.
Oh right. I forgot about that. I wasn't there at all in the first month. Yeah.
So it was like a bait and switch. But we got to work together on a lot of great stuff.
Yeah.
Like the Reaper was really great idea. I was just
gonna say Reaper is probably one of my favorite early things we did.
I was
really good.
Rea here's the best part is I never got paid for Reaper and Creature. The Hoon
wait really
never got paid. It was a freelance gig. I had to prove myself. These dudes.
You were supposed to get paid though.
Yeah. These dudes didn't think I could do all the artwork. I showed my portfolio so I was, I remember the sketch.
It was on my tablet. I was watching Gunner and Penny when she was like two years old running around the backyard. Yeah. I drew a creature of the Hoon and then, yeah, the invoice never got paid.
Sorry that was De Mars' fault. I, you know, I was never involved with paying people. That wasn't, that wasn't something they trusted me with.
But that was like, we had those ideas and it was, I remember we did the, the pinstripe shirt and everyone called it the dad shirt. 'cause at the time no one was doing
Yeah.
Left Chest and Big back. It was all front hit still.
Yeah. Front hit was still really big. Yeah. We moved into that,
which is now front hits are back now.
Yeah. It's classic.
But it was interesting. Like we would go to Joshua Tree and spend like 12 hours, 24 hours.
I missed that. I missed that. We'd do the actual creative meetings.
We would do the entire year.
Yeah.
And I would execute, we would execute everything.
Yeah. We we're about an hour into the pod and this was actually the thing I wanted to start talking about.
Mm-hmm. Like, because, you know, I always try to, we keep these somewhat loose, but I always have a few things and the things I wanted to bring up was inspiration. 'cause I think it's one thing that you and I were really, really big about in creative. Yes. I think some people like creativity just comes from their brain.
I am like an inspiration person. Um, it's actually one of the reasons why. I do not watch automotive content.
I don't watch it either,
because I never wanted to be inspired by something in my own space. Yeah. Like I wanted to be inspired by something else or something that came before it. Like even the car stuff that I have consumed is like car and driver from the early seventies.
Right. Like, like there was, or I would go back and I would look at hot Roding from a certain era. Right. Obviously you were there, but I got heavy into traditional hot rotting.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. 'cause because it, to me there was something so cool about it. And if you go and if you look through the years of design that we did, you can see the eras of when Scotto was really into traditional hot rotting.
Yeah. Because like that, you know,
coffin racers,
coffin racers, coffin racers was one of 'em. But another one was the, was the, was I think which ended up becoming the number one selling T-shirt of all time was the, um, the cheater slicks.
Hmm.
Because that was, and I know it was your design, but it was like we were in that world, like you and I were living in this world.
Remember the cheetah slick shirt?
Yeah. But cheetah slicks, it
was very simple and simple was very clean.
So that actually,
which was what I was into at the moment,
that actually wasn't mine. I'm giving a shout. That was Chris's.
Oh really?
But he took the wheel and the burnout from car Ka. Oh. Which was me pushing it way too far.
'cause Ken got, bro, you went too far. You put eight lines. We and a razor blade on this, on the
video. We, yeah, it was, we went far. Yeah.
But hey.
Yeah,
sometimes you gotta push it and if you knew what it was, come on Car Ka.
Yeah, well it was, it was not just Coke lines. Yeah. But they were done as hash marks. Yes.
So there was the cross through, right? Yeah. There was like the 1, 2, 3, 4 cross slice. Yep. Which was like the counting they just happened to be. Yeah.
Yeah.
But as someone who, the funny thing is, is for me, like never was, never am like into Coke. It wasn't my thing. No. But like it was like just funny 'cause it tied to the name was like, that was like Y ya ya ought because
remember the sticker was in like the hologram, it was the machine.
Yeah. Because we went wheel 1970s, a hundred
percent
ECS static on that.
So that wheel and tire and the burnout that came off that Chris used that to put on Cheater Slick.
Oh, okay.
So put it this way.
You obviously named it Cheater Slick though. Yeah. Because that's such a,
oh yeah, no,
that's such like a 50 sixties hot rod.
Yeah. Yeah. So the naming thing came from when I worked with Travis at Famous 'cause like we would name things except for bands or songs.
Mm-hmm
And I kept wanting to keep that going 'cause it makes, it's relative to the culture.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always one, I'm a huge Namer obviously.
Yeah.
Napal Nova. I'm pretty, I think I named Tri Five by Fire.
We sat Yeah. 'cause the whole idea was like, oh this car, no problem. Six months we're now have a car running and driving. Yeah. We shook it down. I drove it to Long To Long Beach once and we put it on a trailer and it broke down every day on Power
Tour Yours? That was 11 years ago now.
Yeah, I was so excited just to stop that for a second.
Driving that car that was underneath the freeway in Riverside for like 20 years almost
uhhuh
on like, just on blocks and driving it and smelling like, what is that? Oh, those are trees. And there's no like mini malls and shit everywhere. That was the most moving moment I think I've had in a car in my life.
Do you remember when we first got to? 'cause so we went, I'll rewind to everyone 'cause this is actually pre us telling our stories on YouTube.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, Jon joins Hoonigan and I am getting into more muscle car, hot rod stuff. I'd already bought the Nova and, you know, and, and you're well aware of this, but for me it was really hard for us to do something at Hoonigan if somebody wasn't ultra passionate about it.
Like, one of the reasons why I never got. Super into drifting is 'cause we had enough other people at the company who were super into drifting. Right. Hurt was super into it. Dan was super into it. Lindsey Ross was super into it. Like, you know, there was a bunch of people who were into drifting. So like, I didn't feel like I needed to be the authentic person in that space.
Like, that was fine. But when we started to push into a, into like the muscle car world, we didn't, it really wasn't with the company. We hadn't started working there yet. And I was like, I need to go own a muscle car because I need to like, I need to own it to understand it. Like I need to, I'm the one of those people, like, I have to delve into it to, to be a part of it.
Because at the time, I'll be honest, that was a, like, I was a German car guy. I spoke in leaders and, you know what I'm saying? Like, like people would talk about cubic inches and I had no idea what they were talking about. Like I really did, like I just, I, in car culture, I was always into either newer cars or European or Japanese cars.
So it's like people would just be like rattling off like things I'd be like, okay, whatever. Like, I don't know, like it doesn't really relate to me. 'cause I can't do the quick math in my head to be like, oh, that's a 6.7 liter. Like holy shit, that's huge. Right. Um, but I think like when you came, there was finally someone else at Hoonigan who's, 'cause I it was and also Eddie, right?
Eddie L Yeah.
Yeah. I'm sure.
So it's like Eddie was one of those dudes who like, he's really a big part of what got me into, into American cars in the States, you know? 'cause I moved to California and I was like, okay. I'm a Euro car guy, but I now am living in California and for some reason I have this massive attraction to like hot rods and muscle cars.
Like, I don't know what it is, but I was in Venice for four days before. I thought to myself, I think I need one of those. He pushed that when we started doing more stuff and he was like, I think he was like employee number two or three at Hoonigan. 'cause he was, he was the guy who packaged and shipped everything out back in the day.
And he was really obviously into, into American car stuff. But then when you came it was like, okay, we're gonna do power tour together.
Yeah, I th here's the real thing that happened. So Scotto and I had met each other through Jared. Deanna is the one who introduced us. Okay. FD
sounds about right.
Yeah. The first time Hoonigan does fd I was already doing Destroyer.
Right,
right.
You guys rolled in super late. This is such the Hoonigan thing. Super late. The most elaborate Quonset hut style booth.
That was the bac.
The bac, sorry.
It was like rusty square tubing that I had like we had built into Yeah, yeah. With like corrugated metal top. Like it looked like a real structure.
'cause everyone else was doing easy ups.
Well, yeah, and it took, I think you guys got it finished right before the last Great eight was gonna go. Right, right. And that's how we met. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then we would see each other at all the shows, like how Enthusiast Day at Angels Stadium, stuff like that.
Yeah. And that's when you asked me like maybe in August it was probably, yeah. You are like, Hey, if you ever get tired of doing your own thing, we're looking for somebody. Right.
Yeah.
And then I'm like, oh, I think I'm cool. Then things started to, like, I just had, penny was around. I'm like, dude, this is getting harder.
And here's the thing that no one talks about. When you run your own business, it's so much work. You don't have extra time.
No.
You have no extra time. You're like always focused on
it. And the extra time is filled with guilt.
Yes. '
cause anytime you're not working on your thing, you, you feel bad. I should be working
on that
thing.
Yeah.
So when I reach out to you in classic Scott away, it took like over a month, but you figured you guys were shooting Gymkhana.
Sure. Maybe.
And then whatever. And then to get the interview took another month and it was just, it was wild. It just, I should have seen the red flags. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. All
but it's okay.
The red flags. I just wanted to just go in there and just get beat up. So anyways. Yeah.
But so you came in? We did. And then we were like, okay, we're gonna go do power tour.
Yeah.
We both built cars that were not ready for power tour.
Oh. My car was, no,
your car had been off the road for how long?
It 20 years.
But I was working on it before I even joined. Right. I wired it in one day. Yeah. And then I, I put on those super shorty headers and just drove it to Long, to Long Beach. Yeah. Because we had moved at that point,
and I built the, I took the Nova down to a bear. Shell repainted it and put it back together in 60 days.
And unfortunately my brain is now wired that I should be able to do that with all of my cars. I have never been as successful on a build as I was with the Nova.
Think about it this way. The car is relatively simple.
Yeah,
it doesn't have a
lot. It was, it was also in an era where there was a lot less to do with him again.
Gosh. So, oh my gosh. Every single night I like six o'clock, everybody would go home and I would work till one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning every night on the car.
Yeah.
And it was also in an era where, and this is kind of funny 'cause this is really changed where people would just come and help.
Mm-hmm.
Like I think once the YouTube thing started becoming jobs for most of the people we knew, nobody wanted to help anyone work on cars anymore. 'cause everyone was doing their own. But back then it was like Tony Angelo came by, helped for a couple days.
Tony Angelo welded in my motor mounts.
Yeah.
Colin, um, came by and helped for a couple. Colin actually helped for Aton 'cause he did the whole cage and everything in it. And then like, you know, like all these different people would swing by if there was like, oh, I got spare time. Like I'll swing. I mean there were guys who like worked, there was one guy who had worked at um, classic industries who I didn't even know who was like, I'm not doing anything this weekend.
You come by and help. I feel like that era of car guy thing is like over where you would just swing by your, at least in our world.
Well,
because it became business and work for everybody.
Yeah. 'cause they were working on relations like, oh, that's cool. Now it's like, well I could just go shoot my own content.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Which is where we're at.
So anyway, we fast forward. My car was not finished, but we towed it out to power tour anyway.
Hey, hey. You're skipping the whole towing experience.
The towing experience was crazy. It is. I mean, there's so much to talk about this like, could be its own thing. Like,
okay, maybe we should make its
own thing.
Uh, by the way, I thought this the other day. Uh, I wanna start a podcast called. Um, this is, this is a whole other pod because I'm, whenever I'm on here, I'm always like, that's like a whole other pod. So it's just called the whole other pod. I love it. And it just has like this, it's the things a tangent out from these that we never get back to.
So now you'd see why it was so hard to work with you sometimes. 'cause you would literally just go off into a whole other direction for hours. Bro.
We've be, we've been on like 19 tangents since 15 minutes ago.
But it's okay though 'cause like my brain now is, I can tune into like, okay, I got it.
Yeah. We did a really focused episode, a couple back where we just talked about Porsches and we asked the audience, do you prefer focused or the unfocused?
And it's like, it was like overwhelmingly unfocused. And I realize I speak to a very specific type of brain.
Yes. Which is good though. 'cause that brain probably needs that. They need to be feet fed that way.
Keep it exciting. Yeah.
Like
yeah, it's like a mystery. You don't know when you don't know what, when it's gonna end, where it'll end.
So mild thing is also Porsche, right? That's Porsche, right? Yeah. Why do people call it Porsche?
Wait, why?
Yeah. How did that happen? Because you were very adamant. You got mad at someone one time for calling it Porsche.
Yeah.
It's someone's name. You like erupted,
right? So like for example, like I don't say Jaguar.
Which is the British inflection of the word Jaguar. Jaguar. I just say jaguar. Yeah. 'cause it's not, it's, it's, it's named after an animal.
Yeah.
So I think it's okay for me to say it the Americanized way. I don't say Nisan, I don't say, um, I don't say silica or whatever. Silicas. It's SI say silica, right. Um, because that's just, that's like the way you choose to say it.
But if it's someone's name
mm-hmm.
Then you gotta say it the right way. Like if someone, if I had a car and people were calling it the S Scotto instead of the S Scotto, I would be incorrect. It's like, Porsche is Porsche, that's his name. So, yeah. I, it's just one of those things I stand on
because I've heard people
literally, I was there early, now it's like, now it's, I can don't even correct people anymore.
'cause now I think correcting people on how you say Porsche is just like real douche baggery. Mm. 'cause the people who now do it, I don't wanna be affiliated with. So if you wanna say, if you wanna call it a porch, I don't give a fuck. Like, but when I, but when I was younger as a journalist, it was like, that's the right, like Porsche is the right way to say the word.
I'll admit when I was a kid, I definitely probably said Porsche at some point. But yeah, as I got like into cars that, now that's a tangent. Did you just say that? 'cause the Porsche's behind us? Or is it just random?
I mean, it's just, I had that question. I've always heard people say it both ways. Oh, okay. And you were, I remember it vividly.
You getting pissed at somebody in a meeting. Yeah,
sure.
But I'm like, okay, it's fine. I get it. So I was just asking.
Yeah. Um,
tangent 21,
back to power tour. So, uh, I got everything done except for the brake lines. We couldn't drive my car out. Mm. Your car got shipped?
Yes.
We um, we decide we are going to rent an rv.
Great idea.
Because we didn't have enough money for everyone to stay in a hotel room. I did the math and I was like, well, the RV would be better. Plus we wanna bring some merch with us. And, because at the time, like, you know, I, I, we don't, this is, and I really do mean that this is its whole thing. 'cause I think that the power tour story, both one and two, if power tour did not happen, we would've never done daily transmission or any of the content we did afterwards.
It
was my opinion because Power Tour, we went and did it and everyone else at the company was a naysayer. And, and you probably know this a little bit better than some of the guys who came later on, but like, Hoonigan was a really complex company in the early days because it was like, Ken and I started it, but Ken was not really there.
Hmm.
Right. Um, and then because of like the other people who were involved, there was this feeling that like, I needed babysitters. So they always hired other people to help run the company. DeMars. Right. David Brooks. Right. And, and all those guys were great, but they definitely were always afraid that like, Scotto is gonna go do something that's like not necessary or was like over the top
or well impulsive.
Very impulsive sometimes,
uh, very impulsive. Yeah.
But that's what gives it the energy that like. That's how it works.
Hundred percent. A hundred percent.
I'm not denying it. You have Scotto has the best ideas follow through.
Yeah. Whatever. If I followed through with all of my ideas,
ah, you would just,
it'd be insane.
Yeah. You'd be like, man,
yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. But like, anyway, um, so we got like the provisional okay to go do power tour because we, I think got some money from Edelbrock or someone else to like, to try to go make some stuff around it. We had the smallest possible budget to go do it. Um, I still think in the end I paid for everyone's gas outta my own pocket because, like mine and yours.
Just because we just, it wasn't in the budget. I was like, we'll just figure it out. We'll eat it. Um, but they, it did well. And we, I remember like you and I both got our cars like featured in like Hot Rod.
Yeah.
We 100% expanded into a whole new audience. We brought in this whole world that was unaware of who we were because to them we were just, um, you know, we were just like, these drift kids or like this and, and then this weird connection chem block, which also was not really in the American car world until that year too, because it was around the same time.
It was like just after Gymkhana seven came out. So all of a sudden it's like, Unior was important.
Unicor was on the cover of Hot Rod.
I know. So it's like all of this stuff was like happening at the same time. Right.
It was like the perfect way for Arol to roll out.
Yeah.
It was very organic.
It, it was, and it, and, and it was this really kind of rad thing, but it was so valuable.
And I, and I, I say that 'cause like we could spend the next 25 minutes talking about power tour. I think it's almost a disservice. We, for years, even while we were making content, we kept talking about, oh, we need to do the power tour conversation. We need to do power tour. Unfortunately, Pierre lost all of the footage from the second time we went, but I recently found all the footage of when you and I went.
So there's a bunch of stuff that I found. So at some point we should, you should me you like Yeah. Ashley, we should bring a couple people in who were there. And even for the second one, Vinny. Um, but it's funny 'cause like Hurt came on Power Tour one. Yep. And hated it.
Well, and he was he a support driver?
Yeah, he was a support driver driving the RV and like running cameras and doing all of that. But we were still trying to kind of figure out what it all was. But we got there. My car wasn't running yet. We dropped my car off at a shop
Yep.
To have them finish the brakes and we took your car out for like o off the trailer.
And it is, I've never seen rain like that before in my life. Yes. Do you remember that?
I remember vividly. It was so gnarly. Even the local
said the road flooded while we, like instantly It was instantly.
Yeah.
We were like in an intersection. The road flooded instantly. And then on the next thing I remember was like the, the pivot ball for your clutch gave out.
And I made one by rubbing a hex bolt on the ground until I rounded it off. Yeah. And then that ran
for a while. It broke when they took it off the trailer. Yeah. So here's the thing, 55 is a very specific setup for clutch linkage and I put 55 and 57 parts together. Mm. And geometry was completely wrong because when you put a car together, put it this way, before I left the trailer, I had the original Pocky puck motor mounts on it.
So when I would shift gears with a manual Right. Go back on throttle, the motor would rock the lock. It had, it was on a actual rod, which stay, I had to put my foot under the gas pedal to pull it back to idle. And they shifted and then do it again. So that's why TA came by and he zapped in the actual side mounts.
But anyways, yeah, the water came up through the floorboards. We got to a Denny's and we sat there because it was higher up in the ground. Oh yeah. Yeah. And even the locals like that was a lot of rain.
Yeah.
It was gnarly.
It rained every day. Your car
broke every day.
Broke every day.
And we fixed it.
And the nova was okay.
But I had a couple breaks. The second year the Nova broke every day. 'cause the second year I put the bigger motor in and it was, it ran hot every single
day. But at least you made it the 55 we left at, uh, in Austin.
Oh, I forgot about
that because I kept thinking it was like electrical and it wasn't, I ran the original fuel tank with the original fuel lines in it and they were just rusted up and we changing it to the straight axle.
Yeah. All the sediment went out and it clogged it. And I just left it at Barry's house in and then in Austin and then we shipped it back like three weeks later.
I forgot about that. Yeah,
it sucked. I was, remember I was so excited 'cause we were in with everybody.
Yeah.
We're doing it. And here I'm on the radio, try fives down.
And that was it.
Ugh. I remember that now. Yeah. I forgot about that. The, um, I Did you listen to the, the po I did with Zach?
Yeah.
About the road.
Yeah. I, I showed up late because. I had my schedule of my day and you're like, get on. And I'm like, hang on, I gotta pause my day and I'll get on. And everyone's like, oh, post credits.
Wait, so you're, you were listening to that on the way here today?
No, no, no. Oh
no. That day you
got it. Yeah. 'cause you went live 'cause you were doing a premiere of it and I saw Oh, okay.
Okay.
But I couldn't get to it. And that's cacao and I both jump in.
Oh, oh, right, right, right. Because I saw you on that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So
yeah,
I did hear it.
Yeah. By the way, for those of you who are listening to the pod, uh, on YouTube, we actually, uh, do like a live chat for the Premier. Comes out every Wednesday, 7:00 AM Pacific, and I jump in there for the first whatever, whatever the, it is the first two and a half hours, however long the video is, and sort of like answer questions in the chat.
Although usually the chat ends up being completely tangential to the actual episode. Oh, yes. And sometimes people who are on the show like Jon, we'll pop in the chat. You never know. Anyway, um, yeah, that was, I, I miss like there's peak moments and I don't know if it was because it was one of the first, but if I was to name like the top five moments at Hoonigan, both Power tours are in that top five
because it was fun.
We did the thing, we got in the car and did the thing.
Yeah.
I remember the first time I met Mike. Was on one. We were in the, the trailer with Alana. Sure.
Yeah.
And she was interviewing us for the article. They wrote a buzz. Right.
And him and Freberg came into the trailer.
Yeah,
yeah.
Right. And like those were the dudes.
Yeah.
I mean
they were the dudes. Yeah.
They were like, they still are the, they're still the dudes Still are the dudes. But like, at the time, like, that's them. Yeah. Like I watched them, I was at Mesto drawing cars.
Yeah.
And I was watching roadkill, so now I'm like, I'm in the trailer with these dudes.
Yeah.
So that's like, it was, it was a good time.
And plus just going, you're from the East coast, it's very different. Driving in California, driving an old car in California is very, like, it could be, it's very scenic, but it's not very long.
Mm-hmm.
It's like you do the thing, you go back, that's it. When you drive 11 to 1300 miles in an old car that mm-hmm.
Is held together with zip ties and hopes in Yeah. In dreams on
small roads through a bunch of small towns.
Yeah. Like, yeah. That's how we met. Met uh, ratty muscle car guys.
Yeah. They were really fun. Yeah,
they're great. But it's like, that was an experience that I, like, I miss it.
Yeah.
It was fun finding all the har hypodermic needles in the dirt and stuff around different places.
Oh,
that was in Memphis
was wild.
Yeah, we definitely, 'cause we had so little money, we stayed in the hood almost every night.
Dude, I've never been to a, it was, I wouldn't call it motel. It was probably a motel, right.
Yeah.
With bulletproof glass.
That was that one.
Yeah. That
was really, I remember that night.
That was, that was in Memphis. We were so concerned because it was clearly a trap house across the street.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
And we were sort of dealing with that. So I
You corralled the
cars. I slept, I corralled the cars. We parked the RV in front of the cars and then I slept in the car. 'cause I didn't feel like I needed to put it on anyone else.
And then I won't name names. We woke up in the morning and one of our employees had quit and left.
Yeah. It was a very,
do you remember that?
Oh, I remember very
well because it was so brutal.
Yeah.
He just got up and was like, I can't deal with this. Like, this trip is insane. And like went to like, just got a cab, took a cab to the airport.
We're like, in the morning we're all like, where is he?
Yeah.
We didn't know where he was. And he actually got a hotel room that night. 'cause we, we would remember, we would rotate out who got to sleep in the hotel and like a band on tour.
Yeah.
And that's how we it a hundred
percent.
Yeah.
That was, I, I enjoyed it because we had such a different, we got interact with, we went to dinner at Beale Street.
Mm-hmm. With dudes from. Was it Hot Rod? Who was it?
Um, no, that You mean the Oh yeah, so, okay.
Yeah. Took the RV and did some,
so yeah, he did some stuff we can't talk about 'cause it's probably still, it was probably an EPA fine. Um, he, no, we went to dinner and it was, um, it was Matt Boyle who was at Hot Rod.
Mm-hmm. Who was at MotorTrend.
That's, it.
Took us out to dinner because I think they felt bad for us. 'cause we were, we were like eating, like, we were like, like, like eating little like cans of like tuna fish or something. I mean, it was, we were so broke on that trip. I look back at it now and I think like, man, I can't believe I expected any of you guys to go along with
it.
But here's the thing I will say about you, Scotto, is that you'll inspire people to walk into the flames and then later on you're like, that was maybe not the best idea, but here's the thing. It could show, you could gauge who was down.
Well we, uh, the funny thing about that night, I, I actually think we brought this up in the, in the pod with hurt, I forget, but like hurt once heard realized that someone else was paying the bill hurt ordered, he ordered like nine lobsters.
Like he just went to town. I mean, he was eating, uh, and I remember one point like Matt was just looking over and like, he had like nine plates around him and he just kept ordering 'cause he, we eat like crap the whole trip. 'cause we had like no money. It was like fast food everywhere
we were eating. I think Ashley made me a vegetable sandwich.
Yeah.
But, but granted I wasn't eating meat, so.
Yeah. Yeah. You're vegetarian. Yeah.
Yeah. Still am. But like, it was funny 'cause like it was, we were making the food in the rv. We weren't exploring
at all. No. That was the, the trip was, I mean, I, I did it like we were touring bay. Yeah. Like we have an rv, we're gonna sleep in the rv, we'll get one hotel every night so that we can rotate showers out of the hotel and every night a different person gets to sleep in the hotel.
Yeah.
Which seemed like at, it seemed so logical to me at the time. And we, and someone woke up and quit and it's flew home and sent me like a dear Jon email.
Let's, let's, let's roll it back real quick. You flat tow the nova to my house, which took you eight hours. It's 52 miles from Long Beach to my house.
Yeah. It took you guys that long '
cause we kept having problems.
Yeah. I mean, in the overloaded rv the kid didn't like the
front wheels wouldn't, didn't make contact with the ground. Yeah. 'cause of so much weight from the Nova.
Yeah. It was bad from the jump. So already, and remember the rain getting out of California,
you drove through Arizona in what was probably one of the worst rainstorms I'd ever seen.
And I remember you had like an American flag bandana tied. I still have that over your head.
I have the picture of us both wearing those
and we were in the front because you, you had to have someone else. It was so stressful. Am I like just imagining this? No, this was gnarly. It was one of the most stressful things to drive because there was so much weight in the back of the rv.
At the front felt disconnected from the ground.
Yes.
And you would be just like changing lanes without any control. And the rain was coming down in full sheets of the desert because like if you live on the east coast, you don't know what it, like rain in the desert is just, it's, it's almost like a religious experience.
Like it just is. So cr one, you watch the rain come in across the desert, which is wild to be like, I'm about to drive into a rainstorm. But it al one, it also smells like amazing. Mm-hmm. You notice that like rain, it's just like a different smell. But lastly it, it can rain on like, it is biblical level reign.
It, it is. You have done something bad and God is angry at you reign. And you were driving through the brunt of it. And I remember sitting up there, sitting up front with you through that and you looked like a madman. You were like both hands on the wheel. Dude. It was gnarly. Locked in, bandana on. Yeah, it was crazy, man.
Remember also Hoover was the passenger got to pick the music, not the driver. We flipped it.
Did we?
Yeah. I remember 'cause the, the person who left was like, what are you listening to? Uh, 'cause he was driving. I'm like, oh, we're gonna listen to Murder City Devils.
It was not his vibe.
No. And then I, I think we turned em onto bad brains that trip.
That's cool. That's cool. He left with something good.
He did with something good. But yeah, it was, it was a very, never some
again
stressful. Experience for everyone.
Yeah. But also amazing.
Oh yeah. I mean, I still have fond memories of it.
Uh, so do I. It was brutal. I mean,
yeah.
Vinny said it best 'cause Vinny came on year two.
Vinny wasn't on year one and year two he called it a Tough Mudder with cars.
Yeah.
And I, it's totally that. Like the cars all constantly break down. There's no air conditioning. Like everything was difficult. I don't think most people's power tour experience is this. Like we created that. You still actually have a tattoo.
I forgot that you, you got that from
Road Dogs?
Yeah. Road dogs from, from that trip. Spelled
like Randy Rhodes though.
H Yeah, yeah, yeah. And D-A-W-G-S.
Yes.
Yeah. No, that was, that was
it. That's why I got this, because Meg, that was to me, was like, this was the coolest thing. Imagine it was
so much fun. Yeah.
And I've been like on private jets with pretty amazing artists.
Yeah.
Musicians. Yeah. I
don't find private jets to be that cool, but Yeah.
But for me, like, that's not in my wheelhouse. That's not my normal life. Right? Yeah. But for me to go hang out in my dirty ass old car with a bunch of sweaty dudes and Ashley, right. Just driving our junk was like s. I can't even, I can't even put it in words.
It was like a moving thing for me. Like this is what I want to do.
Yeah. This April 3rd is four three day. That's right. The official and actually National Ken Block Day. And we are gonna be celebrating the man with a four hour and 30 minute live stream with a ton of people attending. It'll be on blockhouse racing on YouTube.
Check it out. We'll be raising money for the foundation. It's gonna be a great time. Set a reminder. Mark your calendars. Do whatever you need to remember it. We'll see you there. Yeah, it was great too 'cause we made our own thing. Like I, we, we call it Power Tour, but it, we, like, we barely participated in Power Tour.
Oh. We were late every day.
We were late for everything. So we never showed up to anything they were doing. We just basically would stay at the same hotels as them.
Sometimes.
Yeah, sometimes. Right. And like, I think like one night, like I think Finnegan came by to hang out with us 'cause we had to fix something.
And I remember, I will never forget this line. Do you remember what Finnegan said to us?
Mm-hmm.
He said, you guys are more roadkill than roadkill.
Oh yeah. Because at that point, roadkill had been around for five years maybe.
Yeah.
Maybe five years. Right. And like they kind of had a thing.
Yeah.
And outta all the content, it was like 32nd Facebook videos we made.
Yeah, I think so.
Or minute. And maybe it was up to a minute.
That point. That was on the second one. I don't even think we had, we never even made, that was the second one because we
didn't even film anything
because Pierre came with us on the second one.
That's right.
I think the first one was probably just photography that came out of it.
Yeah. I have a lot of the
stills. I think we sh I, we shot some video, but I don't think we ever did anything with it because we didn't, there, we hadn't launched Dly transmission yet. We didn't really know how, what to do with it. Like we hadn't really, we didn't have, we didn't have deliverables, platform or deliverables.
Right. And
whoa.
So I don't think we like ever ended up doing anything with it. And I think in the end, like Edelbrock and everybody else was like generally happy with like, we just made a buzz while we were there and we did, I think we like posted a bunch about it, you know, just stills. 'cause that was when like, Instagram and stuff was still stills
to be feel, to be fair, we got a whole different set of eyeballs about power tour and like, old school muscle.
But my, one of my biggest things obviously was the whole trip, but Vic Edel Rock Jr. Gave me a thumbs up.
Yeah.
And the tri five, when it had 16 different colors of primer, barely making it to the gas station. But I was like, that's so sick.
That's so sick.
Yeah. Yeah.
I, I remember the second one was pretty fun because, um, that was when I had the, a rock 5 5 5 in the car and that, I don't know if you remember how fast the Novo was back then.
Oh. I mean now it's not, 'cause now everyone's got thousand horsepower. But back then, like. 700 horsepower was, was a lot in 2016. Uh,
to be, let's be honest, it's to real world people. Real world. Driving a car with 600 horsepower is a lot for the street. Let's be honest. 400 on the street is fun.
I just had this conversation with Zach, and Zach basically called me a pussy because I said no.
I said 700.
You know what's even better than that, having a car that's stocked that doesn't break and you just drive it forever?
Yeah, I wouldn't know about that for sure.
You have you Well, the, the Volkswagen,
well also the B one 50.
Yeah,
the B one 50 stock. That's great. That's great.
Yeah, so
it just like, it starts
up dust, it's a different experience.
You can drive it and feel like I'm driving something old. It's fun. Yeah. It's a, an experience. Yeah. There's things about, oh, cool. Fast cars, but at the end of the day,
yeah,
700 horsepower. I had this conversation with Musto that is not every day.
Yeah.
People drive those cars.
But I pulled up, we got there and we had like, just joined sort of like, I think we, we got there a little late.
So shocking,
right? We got there a little late and we were like catching up and we were rolling like, so it was all, it was the four of us. So it's like me, you, Ashley, and the F 100 Vinny and the C 10. And then we caught up with the ratty muscle car dudes. Mm-hmm.
We
were rolling with them. They had the, um, what was the yellow car?
Was that a challenger? I forget now. Anyway, we were rolling with them and we pulled up on Finnegan. Finnegan was in the, uh, the muscle truck.
Yep.
Right. Pulled up. And I pulled up next to him and we're cruising at like 50. And I'm just egging him to go and he's just shaking his head, no, no, no, no. And then we get to, you know, later on I'm like, Hey.
I'm like, I'm like, why, uh, why don't you run? He's like, 'cause first off I pulled up next to you, and the minute I looked over at you, the camera was already rolling. He's like, no one rolls the camera on a race. They're gonna lose. I mean, he's like, he's like, he's like, and I had heard that you had gotten a new engine for that thing.
He's like, so I just didn't want to go for it. He's like, and then he's like, he's like, I just watched you run a Destro Ls um, truck that's way faster than mine and put like six cars on him. He's like, he's like, I was absolutely not wanting to race you. And that was like such a great moment to be like, these guys, like the roadkill dudes who were building this sick shit are like, yeah, yeah.
I'm not, I'm not touching you. So, 'cause I remember that thing because that was, I was, I, that car was so fast. At least at the time it fell fast. I've obviously driven a lot of other faster stuff, but in a car where you can, there's thing like see the floor pass underneath you 'cause there's like holes in the floorboards.
Yeah.
It fell fast.
It's a very different experience. A car built from the sixties or seventies. Yeah. Or the fifties isn't designed to run that way.
No.
So yeah, you can put the chassis on it, but still it's an old car.
Yeah.
Like what the show shop puts out now is like engineered
Yeah.
To do those things.
Right.
I mean, granted that card did have an R Morrison in chassis. Yeah. So it was, it was sorted, but,
but still I
built it.
Yeah. So
it was as sort as I could build.
I mean you held the, the trunk down with a ratchet strap.
It still is to this day.
Sick.
Still is to this day.
Never changed it.
Yeah. It's actually, I'm gonna bring it to Zach's to get it back up and running because I, I'm in this process and I talk about this in every episode.
I mainly talk about it 'cause I want people to hold me accountable. But I'm gonna start a series called does it Run? And it's just like, what am I gonna do with all my cars? Because like amassed 25, 26 cars. And as you know, 'cause you could tell the audience How did your day start today once you got here?
Oh, we had to like, try and jump a car. We
had
to get the rabbit started.
Yeah.
And it did eventually start, but yeah, like it, it needed a little bit of,
but there's
assistance
there. There's no way you can have that many cars.
But when you have that many cars, things just go wrong. And like that car had been sitting still for six or seven days and like six or seven days is enough for like, things to happen with that vehicle.
And I've just realized that I have too many cars. I'd rather have like a smaller collection of cars like.
Question
10 or 12.
Okay. I was gonna say
we'll start at 10 or 12 and have 10 or 12 better running cars and then probably get down like maybe like, I think, I think like a realistic number six.
But can you have one car that does it all?
No.
Okay. What's that dude's name? Shotgun garage or whatever.
I dunno.
The guy who has like that one car garage, he takes his used to take out the willow all the time. His Porsche.
Oh, oh. Um, the, uh, the, the writer?
Yeah.
The, the nine 11.
Mm-hmm.
Um,
I wanna say Jack something,
right? It is Jack. Jack Olson.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Jack Olson also really famous. He had one of the coolest garages ever.
Still does.
And back when there was forums, there was the Garage Journal. Mm-hmm. And his garage was the 12 gauge garage. That's where it's, 'cause it was made out of like, because he had all this 12 gauge steel. It wasn't, had nothing to do with shotguns, but
Mm.
Um, it was because all of the cabinets he had were like industrial strength, 12 gauge. Gotcha. That he bought it in auction. Him Jack Holson. Um, yeah, I don't know. That's just not me.
I mean, granted,
I think it's a different mindset. A
truck does truck things a track car does track things. Yeah. You're not gonna have some people maybe little, a truck that can do track things, that can haul stuff
to.
So like, I've been going through the process of this and I've actually been papering out the edit of like what I'm gonna make and all of this. And, and I keep working in the cars I currently have and I try to justify like why I have those cars. And the other day I'm, I did this thing where I took a step back and I said, okay, I don't have any of these cars.
What cars do I want by category? And that actually like, changed the way I thought about it because I think there's a lot of cars I'm trying to justify into my collection because I'm like, 'cause I just don't want to get rid of them. Mm-hmm. But instead it's sitting there thinking like, I don't think I could have one car that can do it all.
'cause I like different things. Right. I don't like my nine 11 can't do what the Nova can do. It's just like a different experience.
Yeah.
Right.
That makes sense.
But for me, it's like, there's something I like about big old trucks. It's like, there, there's that like checks the box for me. I like a vehicle I can go camping with and like go off road with.
I think that that's like really good. Um, I like a good sports car, which I, I, I have, I do really enjoy having a muscle car, but I definitely think I miss, like, I, I got so close to building a traditional hot rod than ever did. Then I feel like that's something that like, I still need to scratch. And then I also really enjoy having like, or like a show car.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like something that you just, like, this thing is just like I Chrome dumb things on it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, or like, like it has a polished manifold, like the, like my RWB wallet. It might be super cool. It's not a show car to me at all. It's like, it's a car. Right. But like, there's something cool about like a Volkswagen Rabbit that you approach it in the way, like Lowrider people approach you or like every single thing is like, is been
touched.
Is been touched. Yeah. And there's a little bit, there's artistry in even the way that the wires are routed because you've cleaned the engine bay. Like there's something about that that I, that I think is cool. Um, so I've been kind of like going through that process of like, and then I obviously need something that's like more of like a family car, right?
And like, you know, you sort like, kind of checking all that list and that's sort of like, helped me sort of land like where I am. But in that process I realized that like the Nova hasn't been really like on the road for like five years.
Oh. I thought it was running and driving.
I haven't driven it since.
Um, I started, I was driving it and I just should have left it as it was, but it hadn't ran for a while. During C-O-V-I-D-I decided to fix it, got it running, brought it to uh, tire Slayer Studios, did two donuts in the parking lot and then took it apart again.
I thought, I thought Mark Gerhart was there and you're
putting He did squeeze on it and he never got it sorted again.
So like the car got built out, but it never got tuned. It went to SEMA that year. It was the same year I brought the Audi Quatro to sema.
Mm.
So it was like, there's two things going at once. Yeah. Someone, again, I won't name names, but someone brought the car outside. The car had never been like, we put water in the radiator.
It had never been burped. They just left the car running outside and it overheated and the car hasn't been turned on since then. Like got pushed into sema, got pushed out, came back life, got really crazy and then it sat there for a while. Then, you know, life got even crazier. I left uni again. It got pushed onto a trailer, it got brought out to the house.
So it has never been tuned. It has never, yeah, like we got the car running, but it, it never went past that, so.
Mm.
Yeah.
That's a bummer.
Yeah.
I'm actually
your heart. Text me all the time. Like, got Nova running yet. I'm like, no. Eventually.
Mm.
But when you have 26 cars, you, because people get so annoyed with me.
'cause people will be like, dude, why, why isn't that running? I'm like, I just, just trying to keep the cars that I have on the road, on the road. Takes a lot,
dude.
Not How many cars do you have now?
Six. I have the least amount of everybody. And guess what? Even that's too much.
What are your six?
Uh, let's see.
The, the, no, 67
right?
The 71 GM C3 door carry. All suburban.
Yep. And that's kind of like your daily right now?
Yeah, right now except for I'm driving the gx, that's another one. Uh, the 55 try five by fire. Mm-hmm. Which I'm still working on getting those. I'm not gonna mention names. There's things on that that I'm working on right now.
Um. Then the 72 GMC Sprint, which is gunner's car.
Right.
Which will be driving this summer.
That's a nice loophole by the way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The kid's car. Yeah. It's pretty sick because you've had that like since he was like five, right?
Three.
Three. Yeah.
It was my mom's car. She drove that nice
loophole.
She drove that for till she got her her Miata in 2003. Wow. So she had that for a while. And then, uh, the 1920 Model T touring car, which I hacked up.
I forgot about that.
And I want, I got the Model A frame, but then I'm like thinking about like, it's a Model T and I would kind of rather just put on a Model T frame as opposed to trying to put on, it's not a model A.
Like I feel like I was gonna go down this rabbit hole. People do it.
Yeah. Because the model A frame is just a better chassis
Yeah.
Than a Model T.
Yeah. But hey, just go full dickhead and make it so it's super sketchy and
Yeah. Just that the front suspension's like pretty suicide spec
a hundred
percent on a model T.
So Yes.
Yes.
Model a's like you should just, I dunno, you could do whatever, but
Yeah. Yeah.
The model A, like you could drive on the highway.
Oh, you could, there's plenty of idiots driving.
I, I didn't say that. You can't. I just said like, you have kids and you have a responsibility.
Yeah. Because as it is, you're basically sitting on just nothing.
Yeah.
But the whole idea is make it like a little, uh. It's just a bar hopper kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
But that's like, that's the last thing. I'm the only other car I really wish I could do, but I don't think I'm ever gonna get to it. I would love a 53 or 54 Chevy, just static on Craig's with like thin white walls.
And that'd just be a cruiser.
Mm-hmm.
Just ratty.
I, I think the, a couple things that I want from like that era stuff. One I, I, I want to build, I wanna build a 33, um, Hudson Essex. 'cause obviously my son's name. Um, but it's like suicide door has like a really kind of like cool cow. Like, it, it's, I was never the Ford guy.
Like, I remember I was trying to build a 29 Chevy. Like, just, just 'cause everyone has Fords and like, I like it being like slightly different. Then your shit stands out a little bit more. But the Essex is just like a really cool car, but they're really hard to find. So it's one of those, like one will eventually pop up in like South Dakota and I'm gonna have to go get it.
It's not something like, I, I constantly search 'em and they just don't really pop up that often. Or they do and they're like perfect, finished original cars.
Yeah.
It's like, I don't wanna hot ride something like that. I wanna find something that's like a survivor and Yeah. But like beat up survivor and, and take that.
That's one. And I'd like to, I, I'd like to do that like somewhat traditional, so. It'd be cool to run a, uh, like a Hudson, straight eight in it. But I'd also be happy to run any, you know, Ford Flathead, or, actually the engine I really like is the GMC 3 0 2 in line six mm. Which is like a sort of like l later fifties, right?
Because like, that's like a cool motor. It looks cool. Um, it builds decent power. It's a 3 0 2, so it's pretty big and it's a little bit easier to deal with than flatheads Flatheads, as you know, flatheads really expensive,
flathead expensive, and you just, it's
like,
don't build a lot power. A lot of issues.
Yeah, a lot of, a lot of money for very little. But if you're a purist on that.
Yeah. Yeah. But the 3 0 2 is like an overhead cam car. Yeah. But anyway, so, um, that's one idea. But then the other thing that I've really been feeling like I want is, uh, and I've always wanted one, but like, I just want like a really big land yacht.
Like parade car.
Well, parade car. AKA name it by its real name. Pablo Esco car.
Oh, yeah. Well,
like that car scratched the itch for me because it was at Hoonigan. I could use it whenever I wanted to. And I forget what year it was. It was 62 or no, 64 Oldsmobile. Uh, 90, uh, Delta. No, uh,
wasn't
it Delta? It wasn't Delta eight, it was the 98.
It was a 98. Yeah. And like that thing scratched a niche for me. Ashley and I used it all the time, like as like a neighborhood car. I just enjoyed having like a big cruiser. So. It's like really, really, it's really, really cliche, but there's just like a suicide dur Lincoln is just fucking great. No, they're just great.
But they're, they're, they're, and they're really expensive for a nice one.
Mm-hmm.
At least for what they are. Like, they're 50, $60,000 cars. Um, but I just like, one of those is like a cruiser in Long Beach would be super cool. Or like same generation, like late fifties to like mid sixties Cadillac, so
Oh, you can't go wrong with that though.
Yeah. It's like, that was the pinnacle of luxury for American cars. Is that? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like everyone sees like, oh, even if you're in the car, it's like, oh, that's cool.
There's just something. I've never driven a car slow. That felt as cool as driving the NY Yacht
because everyone's like, Ooh, look at that.
'cause you don't see 'em.
Yeah.
No one, if you park it somewhere, it's gonna stand out.
It stand. It's just cool. Yeah. And it makes people happy. Yeah. You remember when we, um, when we started just taking the Lany yacht to lunch all the time? Mm-hmm.
At
Hoonigan, it was like the lunch mobile. It's like you would roll past people.
It didn't matter who they were. Like,
thumbs up,
thumbs up, like yelling out the car. Like everybody was just excited by it. It just made people happy. Like there's something about old that, like sixties era cruisers that are just great.
Well, the funny thing I think about that car now is that we jump, we, we got to there to get the car, right.
We didn't check to see if it had brake fluid in the single stage master, which I thought about it now, like, didn't even check the brake fluid to see we were bombing that thing. Well above it should have been driven.
We were cruising in the rain in a vehicle that was a permanent convertible. Yeah. 'cause it did not have a top.
Yeah.
Like it was never intended to be, it was originally a hard top that they removed the roof from to make it into a parade car and then gave it a convertible, a pillar just so it looked cool. Um, we were driving that in the rain from Ohio back to Woodward Dream Cruise at like 70 miles an hour the whole way in.
Sure.
70?
It felt like 70.
It was more than that.
Oh. Oh, you're saying it was faster.
We were driving, we were spiritedly driving that car.
Yeah.
In places it shouldn't have been driven.
Yeah. We were moving and I remember, and one of the reasons we were moving, 'cause we had to drive fast enough to create a aerodynamic bubble over it so that you wouldn't get soaked in the backseat.
Yes.
And you had just designed the, the poncho ponchos. So we were all wearing the ponchos, but there was like four inches of water. Yeah. In the floor of the car. So I think eventually we drilled a hole in the car so the water would, would leak through. But yeah, that was fun though. That was a really good trip.
Trip.
It
was a really good trip. It was really good trip.
And then Woodward, that car was not billed for Woodward.
No. The radiator like popped
instantly. Instantly.
Yeah. We still, we still kept cruising though.
No, it was, dude, we were lucky. That
was a great trip
because that was another trip that was really fun.
And we got to experience it. 'cause I don't think they're even doing it anymore. 'cause like a lot of those towns now are like, nah.
Yeah,
because even back then you, you'd skip, remember you'd skip a spot and no one was participating. Yeah. Yeah. You
move to the next town.
But man, that's the first time I think I saw.
A Camaro, like a late mile Camaro on like 30 twos or something like that.
Oh yeah.
Remember that thing? It was just like so big. I'm like, what is this?
Yeah.
Like that was, it was cool. 'cause like that, that show brought so many different people, different cars. It's traditional stuff like traditional like what you'd see back in the day.
Mm-hmm. But it was really cool 'cause like that whole scene was very eye-opening. Like, dude, these people are all here hanging out, doing the thing. And they were, it was cool.
Yeah. This is, this conversation is making me miss that whole side of it. 'cause like one of the things like I've learned, you know, I've spent the past like two or three years since I left Hoonigan, like really kind of trying to understand my A DHD.
Mm-hmm.
Like called it a journey, whatever the hell you wanna call it. But like I, since I was a kid, people made fun of me and were like, oh, you have a DHD butterflies. But I was actually like not diagnosed. I wasn't diagnosed till two years ago. I think everybody knew I had it, but that
I didn't know.
Wait.
Really?
No, I just figured
like that never occurred to you. You just thought I was just psychotic.
Yes. You forget. I've worked with some pretty way out people.
Well, I, the thing is, is when I was, I wasn't diagnosed until two years ago. Um, but as a kid, like, it was just something like, people would always be like, oh, like, you know, little like butterfly or squirrel, like, you know, all the jokes around a, DD and it was just something that I thought affected like one part of me, right?
Like it wa you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like, it was like, oh, it's why I'm forgetful. Oh, well, like, deal with it. Right? Or like, oh, it's this one thing. A as you start to like kind of do more sort of understanding and research, like, oh shit. Like, okay, so my brain's wired differently, which means like a lot of things are different, like my impulse control, um, all these different things.
But one of the other ones is this concept of like object permanence, which is like, if I don't see something, I kind of forget It exists. That could be some of my cars, some of my friends like you. Literally you're in the same, it doesn't mean that you don't care about that person or you don't care about that thing.
It just like, if it's not there, you forget about it. And it's actually one of the reasons why people with A DHD hold onto a lot of clutter and things because those things help 'em remember, right? So more likely to keep photos, more likely to keep trinkets, like more likely to keep, you know, the concert ticket to their first concert they ever went to.
Not because they're a collector. 'cause like you probably keep that stuff 'cause you're more of a collector, but because you need to physically see it, to touch it and feel it, to be able to remember that it even happened otherwise, like that part of your brain just like disappears. So for me, with with cars, I've realized that I go through these things where I get really, if, if you only put Volkswagens in front of me, I get like just really into Volkswagens and like that's all I'm paying attention to.
It's all I care about. I don't remember about the other things. And then Vinny will be like, Hey, pull your stupid Ferrari out and let's go drive it. And then like for the next four or five days, like all I'm thinking about is the Ferrari because like that becomes like my whole world. Um. And then over like two weeks ago, I literally went into the shed that the Nova's in.
I was like, oh yeah, this thing's kind of cool. But then like, you and I have this conversation now. I'm like, I forgot how much I liked all this other stuff, which is like both good and bad. Yeah. Because the good is, is that it just like energized this whole other part of my brain that I kind of forgot about.
But it's also the reason like I never get rid of anything. 'cause it's like all these different things have this like connective, like, oh yeah. And like, you know, people, I always joke like, I know Railcar is a joke, so I talk about it, I'm like, oh yeah, railcar. But like, you understand what Railcar is. Yeah.
No one else is who you understand what rail car was. It was just a punchline for stuff, right?
Mm-hmm.
But it's like, I still really want to do that because like, there's a whole culture of traditional hot rod For me that was like really cool. And you know, I'm speaking, and this is totally random, I'm gonna just bounce right off.
Um, I ran to Heath Pinter the other day.
Oh, he lives out here?
Yeah, he lives here in Long Beach. Yeah. And I saw him, I saw him at a coffee shop the other day and it was like such a trip. But I, I was like, and I, it was funny because like, that's from that era of when like, I was super into hot rods. He was building hot rods.
Like we became friends over hot rods and like all those kind of things.
He was my first solo daily transmission episode.
Oh really?
Yeah. 'cause like. I don't think he, everyone understands this. Like I was always the behind the scenes guy. Everywhere I worked. Right. I was behind the scenes guy.
Yeah.
And I remember you came to me like, we need more people on camera, so you're gonna have to do this and you're gonna do this one.
And that was it. It was the worst. I watched that video some days. It just cringe myself out so much. But I watched it 'cause it was like, people think it's easy to get on camera and talk to people.
No,
it's not about, so it's, it's really hard. Once you get used to it, you forget the camera's there and it's okay.
But that was my first episodes with Heath.
Well if you think back to the early days, it was really Vinny and Hurt who were front and center on the camera. Mm-hmm. Like they just seemed to feel most natural. I was sort of in the background early on, but was there because I was sort of directing and would get kind of pulled in front and then I would get in front because it just made more sense for me to narratively explain what was happening.
It wasn't until the Car K rehab episode that like, I felt like I developed, um, like a personality with the audience. I think before that I was just like the weird boss who would come out and be a little, be a little brash. 'cause I had like a New York send, you know, sentiment to me. And then I think for you.
It was a mix of two things. I think there was the, the call out Kings, which was like you racing Finnegan that like really thrusted you into a space where like people knew who you were. But then I also think it was drawing with Jon.
Oh yeah. People still talking
about that or drawing with Chase or whatever we called it.
Yeah. Like was it drawing with Jon? No, it was drawing with Jon. Right?
Yeah.
Um,
with Simon the soundtrack.
Yeah. Yeah. Which was this thing that we added to the tangent show, um, that I think made people go, oh, this is the, this is what Jon does here.
Yeah.
So I think that was really difficult for people to understand was like, it's a bunch of car guys, but like they run a company and they all have different jobs
and we had jobs.
That's another thing. I think
we real jobs at the company, real jobs at the company and everything that we did on camera came after those jobs, which was really difficult. Yeah. And not a sustainable model in the end, it turns out.
No, but it was interesting. But yeah, like I remember we did the one where I talked about Memphis design.
I remember Lindsay Ross is like, this guy's talking because it was a eighties aesthetic where it came from. Mm-hmm. Because we were doing shit card design. I want to talk about it. And I gave those examples. I remember Lindsay did the comment, I remember it, this guy's talking to Hoonigan about Memphis design.
Like, this is crazy. And that was the name design firm.
Mm-hmm.
And they're the ones who actually made that look.
Yeah.
So it was interesting to share the inspiration. 'cause I think that's what's really great about the storytelling side.
Yeah. Yeah.
That people didn't know. So I didn't wanna tangent off your tangent, but
No, no, no, no, no.
That's fine. Throwing it back to you now.
Fine. You go. So I, that was just a response to your, I don't even know where we started. I mean, we're literally still haven't even checked off the first thing, which was like, where do we get inspiration from?
Oh yeah. We're talking about it right now. It's a roundabout way of doing it.
We're just getting back to it now yet.
Yeah. This is, I don't know if this is the most roundabout episode yet, but it's, it's, it's there. It's definitely high up there. So,
but I feel it's good though 'cause as you can see, the stream of consciousness, how it's being played out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. For sure.
It's, well, it's a, it's a journey that has just a lot of stops along the way.
Yeah. But
that's
how
life is. Yeah. It's like a, it's like this conversation is a car that breaks down a lot when you break down. It just like takes you to a different place.
Yeah. A hundred percent.
Um, yeah. What are you, uh, what, back to the inspiration thing and back to sort of.
Like so for a while, because you probably remember this, I used to use Pinterest as inspiration.
Mm-hmm.
Mostly because it was a great place to digitally build mood boards. Like it just, the functionality of it was, mm-hmm. I can't even go on there anymore because it has all been sort of replaced by either AI stuff or the same thing.
Like, it doesn't matter what I search, it keeps giving me the same thing and I'm not like, like all of a sudden I've realized like I'm not finding, there's nothing new in there to find.
You've reached the end of Pinterest,
you Yeah, I've reached the end of it and I have now gone back to. To finding inspiration in analog.
Again, like I, I have left digital as a place for inspiration. So I've gone back to like, pulling out and dusting off my old design books. Um, I just bought Zephyr's new book yesterday. Mm. Because it's like a new scrapbook. Look, I haven't even seen what the inside looks like, but I saw the cover. I know it was Zephyr's work and I was like, I I I, and I was excited to buy it because like, I haven't had like physical inspiration, um, in that world where when I was at the magazine.
It's different
though. It was, so that was the era, like I remember I had like a library of books. Mm-hmm. And I would go in and I would sit down and I would grab something and I would flip through it and I would try to find inspiration. And this is, we were on this conversation before and I think we talked about where, where we tangent it was that I said, I never watched automotive stuff because I never wanted to be inspired
Yeah.
By that. But I wanted to be inspired by skateboarding. I wanna be inspired by fashion. I wanted to be inspired by all this other stuff. Right. And, um, I'm very much finding myself like there again. Yeah. Like in this world, like the digital thing seemed so easy for a while that I really loved it. But now I'm realizing that everyone's getting the exact same inspiration, so we're all being inspired by the same thing.
Yeah. Which again, is flattening the curve. 'cause we're all like getting and feeling and looking at the same stuff.
The input is the same.
Yeah.
So the output's probably gonna be the same. Yeah. So I've been on, I've never stopped buying books. So I go to Book Off, which is like a reseller. It's from Japan, but they've have 'em everywhere now.
Or I'll go to just random places. I just bought, I was gonna bring it to show it to you. 'cause I You would really appreciate this. I bought a book on travel trailers from the fifties.
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's my vibe.
I just got it. 'cause all the logos are in there. I'm like, these are so sick.
Oh yeah.
And I was like, there's a double, do you ever see it?
There's a double decker one. Mm-hmm. It transformed to a second story travel trailer. It's like they, it was like a, one of you probably don't know it. It's a one of one. But anyways, I was like, dude, if I don't like this book, I'll just give this guy 'cause he'll love it. But
I think I may have actually it, was it built by Spartan or was
it, no, I think it was, I don't even know.
I have to go look at it again. But I do the same thing. 'cause like I was going through magazines from the nineties mm-hmm. And doing just tear sheets.
Yeah.
And just going through, like, it might not matter now, but I have a, a, a tear sheet file of actual magazine
mm-hmm.
Images that I've been collecting for, I don't know, 15 years.
I
haven't heard the term tear sheet since I think I worked in magazines.
Because it's very much of that era.
It's it's of that era. Yeah. Which basically is just like you tear out a page. Yeah. But you call it a tear sheet.
Yeah. But the thing is like, you understand that and a lot of people don't and like it's.
It matters. 'cause I used to buy books digitally.
Mm-hmm.
And if I don't have it, I don't even remember if it's there.
Yeah. I actually started, I love, uh, audio. Right. So because of that, I went down the audible route and I started buying a ton of books on Audible. And I found that I would just stop listening to them midway through.
'cause like, same thing, object, permanence. If I didn't see the book, I'd forget about it. Um, but in the, in the inspiration side, when we did the Australia trip, um, for the last Gymkhana
mm-hmm.
The town we were staying in had some of the best typography ever. And I'd just walked around by myself and took photos.
So all type. So it
it's rad though.
Yeah. Because it was like, it was just stuff that I hadn't, it was just new naturally. Yeah. And it's like, it was typed from 25 or 30 years ago when that town was booming during, you know, its peak and it was just this thing that all felt different and hand done and, and had this unique look to it.
Um, another thing when I first moved out here. Um, which is really interesting. But I got a lot of inspiration from swap meets because like swap meets aren't like as big of an east coast thing. Like we have flea markets and stuff, but they're not like on the size and the scale as they are out here. And I would go to obviously like Pomona Swap Meet and Rose Bowl, but a bunch of the smaller ones, like you started realizing that the better swap meets are like more like the swap meets in the hood.
Yeah, because like that's where the stuff gets sold, like originally and cheap before. Like it gets like sold to the gentrifier.
Yeah.
And we would, you know, like it became a big hobby for Ashley and I to like go to swap meets and part of it was to buy furniture for our house or things like that. But the other part was like, I would just find stuff that, I mean, and you know this because like you worked at a drafting table that I bought a swap meet one day.
'cause I was like, this is perfect for our art department. But
I made it work 'cause that was my desk.
Yeah, that was your desk. Yeah.
And I liked it.
Yeah. I wonder where that ever ended up. I don't know,
but it's probably in the bottom of each landfill somewhere.
Yeah. But like those were those things that, um, you know, like I, I just, I'm now at this point where like I just feel like no matter what I ask the internet for, it shows me the same thing.
So here's what I've done.
Like I just, it it like, it's no longer the tool it once was. 'cause it, I will also say the internet I thought was one of the greatest tools of all time. And then like one day it's like someone like turned it off or something or like changed what it was, how it worked.
Well it's the Web3 0.0 thing, whatever.
Yeah. But here's how I've been doing it now. I went back to this maybe three weeks now. I get up in the morning, I get up at six just because I have to get the kids ready, whatever. For school. Yeah. I don't do any phone stuff. It's like sunlight before screen light.
Mm-hmm.
That literally came out of Rick Rubin's book.
Mm-hmm. The look on the creative.
Yeah.
What was the name of Creativity or
Yeah, something like that. It's funny, I'm reading every day. I don't even know. But anyways, and since it's such a small, those, the sections, I don't have chapters. There's sections like two to three pages. I read that. I look at sunlight, I go outside, whatever.
Mm-hmm. I read three, four pages, drink my tea, don't do any phone stuff. I maybe watch 30 minutes of YouTube and I start my day after I take the kids to school. Mm-hmm. Right. For me, it has been the biggest help for me to like really be like, focused on something. And I also like will go through books. I went through Ken Barber's Lettering manual.
Mm-hmm. Yesterday.
I just, I I It's so good.
Yeah. Yeah.
I
took classes from him.
Oh, did you? Yeah.
Yeah. So like, he's so good and I wish I could have had talked to him. 'cause I know we were doing that thing with Ken, we were gonna do something with them and it never didn't work, but like, just having those, I mean, granted books are, I
just went and bought a bunch of House Industries books, um, letting Manuel a bunch of 'em.
Um, the one I, you know, I was never an artist in the terms of like, I was never really able to draw. The most I did was graffiti, but even in the graffiti side, I was more of a bomber than like, you know
Yeah.
A piecer. Um, but the one
did you have to explain what piecing is versus bombing.
You could explain.
Yeah,
I mean, like piecing, you're actually making a piece of art,
right?
Production. You can piece of
art, which is,
or you're, or you're doing tossups,
right? Yeah. Or you like, yeah, so you, you, the quick layers of it for those who who are don't know, are not graffiti people. It's like you have tagging, which is just.
You're like single hand style. Right. And hand styles is like its own thing. Like hand style is its own art. I really think. And I'm a big hand style person. Like I have hand style, I like hand style. I dunno if I have good hand style, but I have better than average hand style. Um, and then you have like, you have like, uh, throw ease, which is like, just like outline letters and you fill-ins, which is throws fills.
That are filled in fills. And then you have, um, and then you then from there, like it goes into a bunch of other ones. 'cause like there's different quality fill-ins and so on. Um, and then you have like blockbusters, which are like big letter work, right. Um, but then you have like pieces or like, when I was a kid they were called wild styles.
Okay. That's very East
Coast. Yeah. Like, that was like, wild style was like, there was no style. Right? Like there was no style like limit. Right. Like and, but, but at that point I think anything just becomes like a piece, which is like a piece, like a piece of work. It's a, it's a piece of art. Like it's, it's, it's like a whole other thing.
It stands on its
own. Yeah. It, that's something like I couldn't do pieces, but like they weren't that good. Like other people were really good at it. Right.
Here's the thing though, but you have the creative mindset. I'm gonna tangent real quick mm-hmm. About people who are just jacking the term creative. I hate 'em.
They're fake creatives.
Mm-hmm.
They think they have an idea. You might have an idea. People can have great ideas, right? Mm-hmm. But they don't execute the idea. That doesn't make you creative.
Mm-hmm.
People dis and they're those same people who dismiss your creativity if you try to make the thing
Right.
I just have to say that.
'cause I've recently been dealing with this and I'm like,
well, I think, I think creative went from being. This like catchall term for people that they couldn't decide what they did. Right. So like, for example, I, I, I couldn't think I, I quickly fell into the creative term when that name first popped up because I was a, when I was a magazine editor mm-hmm.
I was an editor.
You had a title,
what you did? I was a writer.
Yeah.
That's what I did. Right. And then I was an editor in chief. Right. Like, these are these things I did. But when you're an editor in chief, you do, you're like doing more than editing. You're like overseeing the whole book. Like you're doing everything from helping aid in design to paper quality, to color choice.
Like there's just so many things that are involved.
The final product is your vision, you're taking from here all the way to the end.
And then I moved into the world with Ken and I was still using all of the skill sets I, I had there, but like, I didn't really know what that was called in the early days.
I was a brand director, right. Like that was the term. I didn't become a creative director. Until, I mean, I think even when you started at, at Hoonigan, I was still titled as the brand director.
Yeah. Then I got that title
and then you got brand director. Yeah. Right. And it's like, and I moved into Creative Director because as I moved more into the content side of things, there was this like, it's this weird nebulous of like, what do I do?
I'm, I'm not always a director. I'm sometimes I'm just thinking about the idea and it's like really? Like I think the term creative is like for people who are really good about thinking and have good ideas, but you Right. The execution piece like has to be a part of it.
Yeah. You can't claim that. You can't claim that.
I'm just saying, you can't claim it. You have to do it.
It sounds like it's something that makes, that makes you worry. Well, I think the problem now is
grinds my gears, bro.
It does grind in your gears. I think the problem about it now is that the creative thing has become so cool.
Yeah.
And also it is so vague.
Oh, a hundred percent.
That people are like, I'm a creative. Right? Yeah. And, and the weird thing is, is for me, there was a moment where I think that, um, like creative was, was, was actually a dirty word because it kind of came from the agency side.
Mm.
So you were an artist or you were a creative. And actually in my most, you know, in, when I worked at Super Plastic, I was explaining to Paul, who was the, the co-founder of the founder there.
Um, you know, he was asking me about like my thoughts on art, my thoughts on whatever. And I said, look, I'm an art. I'm a creative, I'm not an artist. He said, well, what's the difference? And I said, A creative knows how to make things to make money. I was like, that's right. The difference. I was like, I was like, I was like, my art isn't, is intended to reach the masses so you can make money.
And I was like, that's really my, my goal, right? My goal is to make something, not to make money, but I understand the, the economics of my ability to be creative, right? Like, I have to do something that someone wants to buy, sell or whatever, so I can do that. And he replied back to me, something to the effect of like, well, an artist does too.
The only difference is is they only need one person to buy it and you need, you know, you need millions to buy it. And I was like, yeah, I guess that is the big difference, right? Like, it's like how it speaks to, but like for me there, I always felt like the creative was like the, um, was like the blue collar artist back in the day.
Hmm.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I think like the true artist who was like a true artist was like, yeah, like I make this and I make it for culture. I make it for society.
Oh, well yeah, that's the
right, the traditional sense, right? Like that's what the truth. Yeah. The true version of it. And for me as a creative, it was like, I make all this so someone can buy it.
Well, let's be honest, my whole career is like, you make thing that people buy to where, and it's kind of like, and it's hard because it's the exact same thought.
Yeah. I, I've kind of actually moved to the point where I, I like using the term creative a lot less now. Because I realized that there's, it's too much of a blanket term.
It is now.
Right? Like I'm not really a designer. I have eye for design, um, but I'm not my own designer. And we, by the way, way we tangented from all this. I'm just gonna hit this before we go back, is the one thing I wanna do is I wanna learn how to sign paint, and I wanna learn typography hand, like hand done typography.
Yeah. It's do it something that stems from graffiti. I know. And I've started to,
oh, good.
I've started to, like, I actually bought like polygraphy pens and all this stuff because I wanted to move out of just making the stuff I did, which was more graffiti oriented. Mm-hmm. And go to that because I feel this major disconnect in, in jumping in and doing that first.
'cause like I, I've in on like illustrator, like I, I feel like I wanna do it like in a hand drawn kind of way to begin with and then go from there. And it was house industry's book that completely like, yeah. Made me feel bad.
But you're looking at one the best to do it right now.
No, I know, I
know. And it's great.
'cause like you take his class, I took his class and that's why I did romance novel. I took his romance novel class.
Mm-hmm.
Right. Because the book covers, no one really gets credit for those, right? He's, yeah,
they are incredible. If you think about like a romance,
I
never even thought about
that. So a fun fact is I did this collab with Nappy Boy, with Hurt
Uhhuh
and RTR Vaughn.
Yeah. I did the letters in the romance novel style. Said nappy boy. Right. And I remember Vaughn's like, oh, okay. And T-Pain loved it.
Yeah. It
had to be pink. That's the only he had do on it. Right. But like learning that stuff is so awesome. You would probably, you would lose your mind. You geek out on it. Yeah.
Because you could literally focus on one character and you would just do that one character mm-hmm. Over and over again. And when you do a brush, it is like a make it or break it move. You can do things to fix it. Yeah. But it's like the, the actual act of doing it is like you just zone in. You would love it because you're laser focused on that one thing.
That one second. If
I can hyperfocus Yeah. Then it's, it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the sign painting thing is something that, and like I know you have a, you have a, a certain level of skillset with sign painting, but like watching,
I
won't say sign painting. Yeah. I, I will because I hold that. That's a title.
Mm-hmm.
That's held for people with that. That's their profession, that's their love.
Yeah.
I like it. I do it. I won't take that. I won't claim that.
Yeah.
It's like I won't claim tattoo artist.
Right.
Basically, I mean, I'm basically a better scratcher. That's what they call people. So they call people on that scene, but.
It's a dude, you should totally do it.
No, I'm going to like, it's, I'm
studying. It's really crazy.
Yeah. I've been, I've been like, like I said, I've been reading the, the house books really kind of put me on that level. And, and again, I went to the House books back to what we were saying before. 'cause I was looking for inspiration Yeah.
On doing something. And I went there for a different reason and walked out with something else. Like I was, it was when I was designing, um, the 3, 2, 1 action action logo.
Mm.
And like you can see like the three, the two in the one have like a very handheld and I actually drew those myself and then I gave them to someone else to clean up.
Mm-hmm. Right. Um,
should have just left them rough dude. It would've been felt real good.
Yeah. You know what, I did it, I did it, um, on the iPad with the like, you know, just like with the stylus on the iPad. Mm-hmm. And I think I should have done them on paper.
You should have Just '
cause I don't have printed
it.
What?
Printed it on the paper, put tracing paper over it and then hit it with like a Sharpie. And that
would have that. Maybe I, maybe I'll redo it. You could. That's the redo.
Yeah.
So, um, but yeah, I don't know. It's just something like, that's just one of those things where I like from like, I love type, but it's weird 'cause I love it so much.
But it never became, I never was a designer. Like I never learned that trade. It was never something because there was always other people in my world who were better at it than. So I, I just, I, I, from where it was and what made sense, it, it didn't make sense for me to do it. And the same thing with editing.
I was never an editor. But now that I'm on my own, I find myself doing a lot of this stuff and enjoying it. Like, I know I'm not anywhere near as good of an editor as any of the shred editors we had at Hoonigan or Volgar or any of these guys I've used in the past for this, from Conna films or whatever. But I, I do enjoy the process of learning.
It. It just, it's, it's a difficult one though. 'cause like, I don't really have the time. Like you, it takes, like, for me to edit something takes days where like, someone else will do it in like a few hours. Right. So,
well, I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna share something with right now that I just had to work through myself.
Yeah.
Right. This is a, this is gonna be the bummer side of the
It's all right. It's
all
right.
Yeah.
Um, I was so mad the last couple months, like super angry about everything. Every day I just like super pissed about everything. Right. And I ended up snapping on one of the kids and it was over nothing. And then my wife kicked me outta the car, told me to go chill out in the studio for four hours.
Mm-hmm.
And I just realized something I was going through my midlife crisis.
Hmm.
It's be not, I don't wanna get a vet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And get monarchs and go get a girlfriend half my age. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
But I was realizing I'm on the backside of my life now.
Mm-hmm.
There's not gonna be another 53 years.
Yeah.
It might be like 2030 maybe.
Yeah.
Right. And I've been saying to myself the last several years, like, there's not time I gotta do it now. Yeah, because you don't have it all. Like if you don't stop and go do those things, like be present for everybody in your life.
Yeah.
Go do those things. Like learning 3D modeling, doing more sign work, doing more airbrushing.
Like reading a book, watching that movie. I had a backlog of movies. I finally watched Heat. It's been 30, it came out 30 years ago. I finally watched it. I bought the DVD and sat down. You hadn't watched it? Haven't watched it. And I finally watched it go.
It's fucking great.
Yeah. And they're making a second one now.
It still holds up.
It's fantastic. Right?
Yeah.
But I always kept putting everything away, like, I wanna learn how to do this. Later, later, later.
Yeah.
Right now I had to like, I had to go in my house to tell my wife I got it. I was so depressed with Scotto. I thought like I didn't do anything in my life. I haven't com.
What's this all for? I haven't accomplished anything. I had to remind myself like everything I dreamed of I got to do.
Yeah.
And it's because of the right time, the right people I worked with to go do these things and learn things from other people.
Yeah.
Like I didn't go to school, do any of this stuff.
Right. So I only saying news. Go do those things. Take that moment. Even if it's only like 15 minutes.
Oh yeah.
It adds up. Because dude, I don't wanna be the downer.
No. I it being down. No, I don't think it's a downer at all. I actually think it's this thing that like people don't know. No one gives you the handbook on how to deal with shit as you get older.
Well,
it's funny. And especially because the handbook changes, right? Yeah. Like when my dad was my age, like I was already out of the house. I'd already moved out. I have a 6-year-old now, like my life is just a different order than his is. Mm-hmm. So it doesn't make sense. Um, for me, you know, a major shifting moment wa was Ken's death because, well, yeah, because this was this moment for me where I was like, oh shit.
Like, like all these things that me and him had planned to do are not happening now. Right. Like, this is not happening. And it's the reason I, and I, it's the reason I bought the farm because Ken, Ken loved the ranch. The ranch was like such this, he was like, the one thing that made him really, really happy.
Didn't,
well, I don't think
people, and he had a lot in life. He had a lot in life and there was a lot that, and he was still seemed very frustrated, like how we all felt. Right. And it's this world of like, money doesn't really buy happiness
also, you think,
but I guess the money did buy him a ranch and he was really excited about that.
Yeah.
But, but like, but it was like things like chopping wood, which like was this like, private thing for him. Like he didn't post about it. But like, there's just these things and for me it's like the, it's the weirdest things about the property and I fucking. He, like it was three months after he passed, I went and bought the farm because I just, it was, it was a bad idea.
We didn't have the money to do it. We over leveraged ourself to do it. It has created a ton of extra stress and tension in my life because I now have this farm that has farm problems. Like, you don't even think about like
farm. Farm life is 24 7.
Yeah. It's like a whole other thing. But I'm happy I did it because it was in my head of like, I eventually wanna own property.
I grew up in New York City, like I never had property. Yeah. I want, I want land. I wanna be able to work the land, which just like, sounds so cliche, but it was like just something I wanted to do. But it's
therapeutic
because it takes you out 100% therapeutic and it takes me out. I leave the phone in the house.
Mm-hmm.
I get on the tractor 20 hours later, I'm like, dead. But I've had like, you know, I'm like, I love this. Right? Yeah. And, and so that was one of those things that came out of that moment because I was like, shit, I gotta do this. And I had this other moment, which was shortly after that, and I thought to myself like, what the fuck am I chasing?
Like, what am I chasing? Like if I was, if, and, and you mentioned this earlier, which was like, you know, on your deathbed right? Or after you die, like what are people gonna say about you and your, you know, your kids are gonna be like, oh, I wish my dad worked more.
Not gonna happen.
No, not gonna happen. Right?
Yeah. And I had this thought, which was like. If I died right now, would I really be able to say that? Like I wasn't happy with what I've, of what I've done, like all the things that I've done, and like you start to go through like the brands, the, the content, the, the things I've built, the impact I've had, and you're like, ah, you know what?
Like, and the, the, the places I've been and the places like, you know, all these amazing adventures I've had in my life is more than the average. A lot more.
And you have to be like, right. I had to remind myself 20 years ago I would be dying to be what I've done.
100%. Hundred
percent. And I forget that. So like, people are waiting to have that moment.
Yeah. And it's like to remind yourself, but then you, like, I think it, you know, there's this whole idea of like, you know, you wanna be living in the present. Um, I think a lot of times I live in the future of like what I wanna do versus like where I am right now. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think sometimes in the past, I think I live in the regrets.
I don't live in the like, fuck, that was super cool. Like, even that's just sitting here today talking about how Sick Power tour was. There's a part of me that makes me wanna go do Power Tour again this year. But then there's other part of me that's just really content. We did it and realizing that power tour would not be the same this year.
'cause I would have, I would have different responsibilities looming. It would be a different thing. And it was, it was great when it was, and you know, I, I've said this before, but people will say to me like, oh, it's a real bummer what happened with Hoonigan. And I'm like, man, that flame was not gonna burn that bright for that long.
It can't go forever.
Like, it's just like your favorite band. Like they, they got maybe two albums, maybe three albums in them before they change. And then you have to decide whether or not like, you like that change.
Yeah.
You know, like
it's a, it's a, brands like that are always gonna evolve.
Yeah.
It's like water.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, people ask me, I go, it's just things are gonna change. It's just, that's why people come and go and you can't. Yeah. It's just how it is. You remember that moment? Like people say, I have all those shirts from that time and I put 'em away. Cool. When you open that up, you can relive all those moments again.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. And be like, that was a cool time.
Yeah.
And there'll be something else.
I'll go back occasionally, especially a lot since we started the show. 'cause we'll reference things and I'll have to go back and I'll find the B roll for it, you know, to run. Mm-hmm. I'll go back and I'll watch like an early day daily transmission and I'm like, first I'm like, holy shit, look.
Could go baby. I look so young. Second. Uh
oh.
What?
Wait a minute. What? I don't know if I should do this.
Go
for, brings up. Okay, so you know what just happened a couple days ago?
What?
National Emo day?
Oh dude. So, so random. I know what you're gonna bring up.
Yes.
Somebody sent me, someone who listens to the pod.
Yeah.
Sent me a clip and it was like Chris Carrabba from MTV Unplugged.
Mm-hmm.
And in the background he was like, Hey, that looks like you. And I said to him, are you sure? Uh, no, I said to you, I said to him, I said, did you recognize me or did someone tell you? And he's like, I recognized you. I was like, really surprising.
Yeah. So National Emo Day is Unplugged Dashboard. Confessional Scotto told me this right. Years ago.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, okay. This is the only thing I really can hang. Like, ooh, I got you. But it's great though 'cause they showed the clip. I'm like, oh my God. And there he is. Young Brian Scott. I was singing all the words, but I know you were there 'cause you were impressing a lady.
Well, but the, the, the full backstory was I had a friend, uh, I had this friend Iggy. He was in a hardcore, he worked out at the gym that I worked at. Mm-hmm. So I ran the front desk at the gym and, um, we used to listen, like he would come in, there would be no one else there. So like I would throw on, you know, the hardcore grates and, um, he would come over to me and be like, and by the way, he, not to judge book vice's cover, but he didn't look like someone who listened to hardcore, like, kind of dressed like a thug.
Right. Which in New York is a weird cross over, I
don't know, dude. DMS
Yeah. We all dress like, it was like a weird world. Yeah. Yeah. But he came over and we started talking and it was like, yeah. He's like, there's this, he's like, he's like, oh, I got, you know, do you like this other band dashboard confessional?
And I was like, nah, I never heard of them thinking they were gonna be hardcore. And he gave me the album. I was like, I don't, this isn't at all what I thought it was going like.
Mm-hmm.
Like, emo was new. I mean, emo like, I don't think emo had a name yet. At least if it did, I wasn't involved in it. Right. And to me it sounded more like indie rock.
Right. Yeah. But like, but it was like acoustic or whatever. I was like, yeah, dude, cool. Like literally it played like, you know, and then like enough nights in a row it started playing, it started getting catchy. And the next thing I know, like I found myself like listening to it, like on the drive home. Yeah.
And two weeks later he was like, Hey. That band's playing. Uh, MTV Unplugged, do you want to go? And I was like, yeah, sure. Because this was, I was like single. It was like this time in my life where I was like, if anyone asked me to do something, I just said, yes. You have those moments. You're just down
for whatever.
Yeah, I was young. Yeah. I was like, all right. Yeah. Cool. Like, what else am I gonna do? I work the night shift at a 24 hour gym. Like my life ain't going anywhere. No, let's figure it out. And, uh, went to a room with that show. I met that blonde online and
Yeah.
Was kicking it to her. And we got plucked outta line.
'cause the two, like, I was flirting with her in line. And so they, the producers were like watching everyone online and they plucked us out
because you're gonna be good for the background.
Put us behind. Yeah. Put us behind, uh, you
prime real estate.
Oh, we were prime real estate. And I, we were prime real estate.
I had like the spiked black hair. Yep. Yeah.
The shirt colored down. Boom. Anyways, remember you first told me that. I'm like, no way. So I found it and I was on Amazon and I was looking at the record going, oh, this is the one I put it in my pocket. I didn't realize I bought the damn record. It's still in my collection.
That's how you got me two shaded me on that one. But I just saw it 'cause it was so random. Like this dude, I like, I, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember this, but not a, I'm not giving you a hard time about it. No,
no. You know, I think for a period of time, because I was this kid who grew up in like the New York hardcore scene in punk rock.
It was like being attached to emo was like the most uncool thing. But like, I'm, I, I I will still queue up dashboard on a road trip.
No, but here's the thing though, it's like people. Because back then you could only be one thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. You could, if you're only down for this, you're down this.
You couldn't cross pollinate your genres of music at all.
When? When I was all of like 11, my good, my best friend Tim just started listening to rap and we were all like Metalheads.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, I, I don't understand dude. Like I just thought we weren't gonna be friends anymore. Like I couldn't even understand how you could listen to both metal and rap.
Maybe I was like 10 because I think by the time I was 10, or maybe actually might have been young because I was definitely rap, listening to Rap by 10. But like me, I was like eight or nine.
Mm-hmm.
And then he's like, I don't know man. Like rap's pretty good. And he played for me the Slick Rick Great Adventure self album.
Yeah. And I was like, oh shit, I kind of like this. Yeah. And then next thing you know, I listened to both but, but that I remember like how different that was. Like you had the Metalheads and you had like the hiphop kids and you had the punk kids and even like metalhead and punk kids were like two different
people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They couldn't be in the same
And now it's like so blended.
Yeah.
Yeah. It is. Which is great. That part I think is good that, that, I think it's good that music is blended to that point.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Because everyone can be like, oh they can, they can experience something and they can be like, oh this is cool.
And you can see where they pull it from. Now
do you like turnstile?
I like turnstile a lot. I actually, this morning I saw them do a, like a cover. They did a cover of stone roses. I wanna be adored.
Oh,
okay. I saw this morning super sick. Now I know, I know some people are not intern style 'cause they're not hardcore anymore.
Yeah, they definitely crossed over. But
do you know Straight Edge Jeremy?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He turned me onto Turnstile and I wrote, me and him were on a job together and we were like, just listening to Hardcore, and he was like, you want something a little bit more melodic? He's like, have you heard of Turnstile?
And this was like, before they, this was years back. And I was like, oh, this is pretty good. And I kind of forgot about it. I was like, driving somewhere and I was like, I just want something different to listen to. And I had saved it in my Spotify and I turned it on. And then literally like three months later, they like absolutely exploded.
And I, I think they're great. And to me they are, um, they are today's generation, Fugazi.
That's probably a good way to say it,
because Fugazi was like this post punk. Mm-hmm. Like post hardcore and early Fugazi was like really hard, right. Like that like waiting room era. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, like that had this particular, you know, 13 songs Right.
Like, had this particularly particular sound to it. And then like, the later stuff is really melodic. And when I was younger, I didn't like the melodic stuff. Right.
Because
you wanna
be angry.
Like the argument. Yeah. And like, it didn't match the, like my energy was here. I wanted music to match my energy. And now I don't think I've listened to 13 songs in forever, but I mean, I may, like, I may have, I'll cherry pick a song or two here.
Yeah. But I will go back and listen to like. On the killer take and like, you know, all of that a lot because like that melodic stuff just made more sense to me as I was older. And I, I look at turns out the same way. 'cause their early stuff was a lot harder.
Yeah.
And then like now they're most established, which went really big.
All
anywhere online. They post about 'em, people are gonna fight. This isn't hardcore. And I get it because they just like, it's not what they think is
Yeah.
And they don't want people to like have it.
Yeah.
And they've def they've left that, I wouldn't say they left it. Yeah. But they've moved on to like, Hey, this is what we want to play.
Because dude, when they fill up a park and people show up for a free show and everyone's excited and no one's getting bummed out.
Yeah.
Like that. I think they're great. That's what they need. I
think they're great.
People need that.
It was funny on the, on the pod we did with James Pumphrey, he called Hoonigan, uh, new Metal.
And I was like, I was like, and I don't think he meant it as meant it as an insult, but for some reason, for me it felt like an insult. 'cause for me, I always saw Hoonigan as being more like punk rock or hardcore. But then I realized that like I'm just from an earlier generation where like those terms mean like very different things.
And then I thought to myself, I don't actually know what new metal is. Because to me there was like metal and then metal had these breakdowns like. Death metal, right? Yeah. And like, like then there was black metal. Black metal.
Yeah.
And like hair metal.
There's metal core. Yeah. Then we get into cores.
Yeah.
But like, but then like, there was like a whole genre like generation like after that that like, I just stopped paying attention 'cause I just stopped listening to that.
Yeah.
You know? Anyway, I thought that was a, that was a random interesting thing, but That's funny. I wanna go back. I wanna go back. Let's rewind.
I wanna go back to where I was saying, I think the term creative has become way too broad. And because of that I've decided that I just am now just, and, and like, it, it sounds fucking pompous to say it because there's not like a better term for it, but like, I'm just a story person. Whether you wanna call it a storyteller, you wanna call it a rec and tour if you wanna be really fucking pretentious.
But, um, I just think that, that, like, I enjoy telling stories no matter what I do. Like that's it. Whether those stories are through design, through film, through, you know, writing through podcasts. Like I just enjoy stories. Like that's, that is the thing that I like doing. And that like, and like I have a creative eyes, eyes for things, but I think that that is like my more specific part of it.
It's like, I don't know, you call it creative storyteller, whatever. Um, because I think nowadays if you take 10 creatives to put 'em in a room, they attend, they all do different things.
Yeah. But that's the whole point. Yeah. Because like I would have a, we'd sit down, we'd have these monster meetings that would last for 12, 14 hours and we would be,
was that not, now that it's over, was that like Totally not your jam?
Because I love long fucking creative
meetings. I think if we could actually accomplish actionable things, it's productive.
Yeah.
It would be mutiny. As soon as you walk outta the room, a lot of times people would be jumping off the ship right away trying to do something else and then you would come back.
I remember we would, dude, it was bad. Yeah. We would get to, we had writing sessions. It was is a whole different idea of like doing story arcs and everyone had to write their own creative, which is what that broad term. Yeah. And then we'd put on the board and you'd be like, Nope, this is all not gonna work.
It was just hard because when you have that many people invested
mm-hmm.
Into going a certain direction, it's hard. Yeah. It's just hard. Like you, you know, I think for me it was soul crushing. What really kind of did it was when we had uh, a certain person not gonna name names, reading
this whole pod has been not naming names.
It's fine. Name the names. Name the names,
yeah. But no, not gonna do explaining to us what Hoonigan was. 'cause they were reading a pitch deck and explain to us what we were doing and who we were. Was like,
was this one of the Bobs?
No. Oh. It was one of those people attached to that. It was like, anyways, I don't wanna talk about it, but yeah, it was during that era and I was just like, this guy is reading this thing line per line.
I'm not gonna sell you the whole thing. I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but I'm gonna read it to you. What a hony it is. Like, that's when you start realizing like,
yeah,
this is, we need to clear the space. This is getting too much. Yeah. But
I mean, I think if anything, there was this one. I, I would say one thing.
There was this period of time at Hoonigan where I think it was so clear to a group of us exactly what we were, right? Mm-hmm.
Like
it was like you knew what the aesthetic was. You,
we were firing on all cylinders.
Everybody knew what we were and what we were doing. And then you just, you just have too many people.
I, to me, I, I, I realized this, I think. Um, 15 employees is the ultimate sweet spot. Um, anything more than that 15 is at a point where, at a company, like there's enough people to handle the stuff that creatives shouldn't be doing.
Mm-hmm.
You know, whether like the, just making sure people get paid, making sure we get paid Right.
Um,
electricity in the building,
all of these things, right? Yeah. Like, there needs to be people to, to do that. Um, but once you can no longer all go get a table at like a big restaurant together, it's not a com It's, it's, it's not like a, it's not a company that works like a family anymore. Mm-hmm. And like I know that this is like the most negative thing that is set in corporate, which I was like, we're family.
Yeah. You don't say that ever.
But I think you never say that, but I think there was a, a period at Hoonigan where we all felt like family. Like where, like, where everybody was like we were, we, or at least gang, you know what I'm saying? Where like, everybody was fucking down for each other and like, there was definitely this thing where it was like we were, we were all here for each other.
That changed as there just became more people. 'cause you don't connect in the same way. I mean, there was, you can't,
it's impossible. You cannot do that
because, like really by the time you, you had blown out and developed the, the art department, there were people who I just didn't like, I barely talked to them.
I barely talked to, like, I barely had interaction with Chris and with. Because I had an interaction with you because like, because that just made sense.
Well,
you can't, but in the early days you and I were like, we would do, we would, we would just do it. Yeah. Like we would do the thing. It was just us. But as we started to make more, you couldn't do all of it anymore.
We need to bring in more people. And now it's like the vision gets blurred because you guys would go do your own thing. I would be doing this over here and then I would come back in instead of it being this moment of like, oh, let's, let's perfect this. It's like, oh shit, you guys kinda went in the wrong direction for three days.
And then everyone's like, what the fuck?
It wasn't even three days. It was like you were on your island. Yeah, we were on our land and I was literally told by some people, we will not mention their names. Like, get it together and go make as much money as you can. Or we're gonna, can you? Yeah. Which is not the best way to have inspiration for creative, creative people.
Yeah.
Right. And we were a year out. People don't realize that we weren't, it wasn't the days of like, oh, when we first were at the donut shop, like, oh, we made some shirts. Yeah, let's take a picture on the rolling rack. I put it in Photoshop. You post it on Instagram. People bought the shirts, hurt. Might have made an edit.
Something for it. Yeah, that was it. Now we're like, there's a whole department. There's,
you know, that was one of my biggest pushbacks and fights. I never understood why we needed to be a year out of season because we didn't operate as, as a fashion company.
But here's the thing. If you wanna make product that you could have a holiday, you have the time development cycle.
That's how it is. Like you can't make a custom jacket in three weeks.
I know. I know.
So anyways, but that's where the biggest disconnect was. And we'd have these, 'cause you and I would have, like, we would have that meeting and we'd talk about what the vision was for the year. Yeah. We'd execute That stopped happening.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Because you were doing other things.
I know. I was doing too many things
and then I was like, okay, we gotta keep the ship going.
Yeah.
So that's why I was told like, you got full control. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take the wheel.
Yeah.
Some people can't do that. They won't do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They need someone to hold their hand and like there was no option.
Yeah.
So,
but, and again, that was like, at that point we were 40 employees.
Yeah. When I left Famous, there was a hundred something people there. I went downstairs one time and like, who are these people?
Yeah.
Like, you don't know, like, that's when it's time to like realize it's not gonna be the same thing.
Yeah.
It, you know, I, I think you remember this like the Mark Arsenal thing. 'cause Mark said to me, like, I, I was talking to Mark about, you know, Hoonigan growing and, and so on, and he had said that he, he kind of wanted to stop illist from growing.
Mm-hmm.
And this was like right after Hoonigan, like went to Zoomies and I looked at it as like.
That's like a nice cop out. Right? And later on I realized like, man, he was really right because like there is a certain size that like
you can manage it,
you can manage it and everybody,
it's fun.
It's fun. And you get to, and also the biggest one, I think that this is the thing that most people don't tell you is if you're really good at doing something, uh, as you build a company, people will come in and tell you not to do the thing you're good at anymore.
Mm-hmm. There's usually suits.
Yeah. Like the people will come in and tell you like, no, you need to be an executive now.
Mm-hmm.
Versus you doing the thing that got you to where we are today.
Yeah.
Right. Which was what happened for me. It was like I was spending more time in meetings and, and because they love
having meetings
about meetings and, and meetings.
About meetings versus like doing the thing Yeah. Versus like being involved in the content. Look at this, being involved in the product.
Move the Tire Slayer Studios can shoot any time we want shot one day a week.
Yeah.
And it wasn't like, it wasn't exciting. You could go as long as you wanted to. Yeah. And it just didn't have the same energy.
I, we soupy and I talked about this on a previous episode, I don't understand why tire slaves, we may have just already missed the window. Like the brand may have already been feeling like it was over. And like, I I kind of joke sometimes that, uh, that tire Slayer Studios was like either like, uh, that vacation or like having another kid before the divorce.
Can to
save it.
Yeah. Like, like, oh, we're gonna do this thing. And at first it fucking felt sick and like, we have all this room, but it just wasn't there anymore.
Well, 'cause let's be like 6 21 was a character.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure.
I mean, dude, did people, like, I remember kz found that dude OD'ed on the dock right when we first got there.
Oh yeah. I ever forgot about that.
It was a different place.
Yeah.
I mean, I get it. Imagine coming home from a day of
work. Well, we also, we found somebody in the dumpsters. Do you remember that?
I don't remember that one.
Yeah. Um, the security guy that we hired
Mm.
Who used to fight with the cops. Remember him.
It was his name. Dave. David. Um, he, uh, he found a, he found someone, I don't, they weren't dead, but they were pretty close to it in our dumpster. Sick. Like they crawled into our dumpster overnight and Yeah.
Well, I mean,
it was pretty wild there.
That part of town was definitely rough. We got
call, you should go check it out on the way outta town now.
It is way worse than it was when we were
there. Really?
Yeah.
Hard to believe.
Yeah.
But he's saying, I can understand why the city got bummed. Yeah. Imagine. Yeah. Yeah.
We
come home, you wanna have a nice relaxing evening or afternoon and you got a bunch of assholes outside loud and smoke and Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But
we did invite like Australian
tipping
cars. Tipping cars to do burnouts.
Bad
idea in a residential neighborhood across from a school.
Yeah. Yeah. And whatever
you live and learn.
Yeah.
So, but yeah. Um,
yeah. For, for you, I can understand you wanting to do the analog holding a book.
Yeah.
Interacting with the things, trying to find, that's what makes inspiration so exciting.
'cause when you find it, like I just did, my latest drop I did for destroyer was based around seventies car culture. Mm-hmm. It was kind of leaning, skewing more towards vanning.
Mm-hmm. Because
like the side pipes, stuff like that. But I showed like, here's a color palette that was popular. And people would see that and they, you spark, like, especially if you're a certain age, like, oh, my grandma had an avocado refrigerator.
Yeah.
And then they had this color, blah, blah on the couch, whatever. And then showing some different information for it. It wasn't just Peter Frampton, it was like, oh, you know, people were listening to like the runaways and like mm-hmm. The music. And I made a playlist for it. Like, this is what I was listening to.
I was drawing this stuff and showing the whole process of really, this is probably the first time I did that much on my own to explain why I did the thing I did. And it's like, for me that was more exciting than the finished work.
Mm.
Like showing people
No, I get it. I get it. I'm working on, um, I'm working on a script right now for a movie.
And we don't, this is gonna be a whole other pod, but
Okay.
But, um, I, I'm working on a script right now for a movie and I'm like being very, um, deliberate in keeping things as a record of telling it. Because I think that like, the process of how it all comes together and the things that inspire it is like such a big part of making it that, like, that story is like really interesting to me.
So I might make it and the movie might suck, whatever, but just think I might write it. And then the movie never even comes to fruition. But it's actually been a big part of the process is like the research that goes into creating it, including like the other films that I'm watching. 'cause I'm going back and I'm watching films from like the sixties and seventies and like that, that speak to how I think films should be in terms of like, the practicality of cars and like action and crashing and all that kind of stuff.
Um, but also like all the way down to, you know, just even like old magazines and all of that. Like, and it, it's, I love that. I love like the process of it all. Like the process is more. I realize that to me the process is more important than the finished product.
Oh, I got that from you right away. You love,
I love
the cars collecting all the stuff.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Like you love buying parts
or cars. It's why one of my cars are finished because the process is actually my favorite part. Yeah. Once it's over,
you're like, uh, once
it's finished,
you're like, eh,
the process is done.
Yeah. So you're always in the process mode.
Yeah.
But, but that's the, is the most satisfying thing.
Like you put all this stuff together.
Yeah.
And sometimes, yeah, it doesn't feel the same as when it's finished, but
why don't you bust that nut stop, take a nap. Sometimes getting there is more fun.
Yeah, exactly. But that's it though. 'cause you're like, oh, I build this all up, and you're like, ah. But I hope you could do it.
You could even shoot it on your own and just make it self-funded. I mean,
ain't ain't cheap, but No, I I I've got a plan, but I'll talk about that more later, so.
Okay.
Um, well, we've gone a couple hours as promised.
Yeah. I mean, I honestly thought we were gonna go longer. I was prepared for five hours.
Yeah.
Yeah. We didn't really talk about cars
much. We could do part two. Yeah. I dunno. We'll see, they, I think I, there was a lot of audience that asked for you to come on. I think this is the show they wanted.
Yeah. Yeah. 'cause people don't care about my car
stuff. It's not that they don't care about your cars. I think it's that like if you wanna hear about your 55, like yeah, we made content about that.
You could go watch it. I'm sure people wanted some updates. You kind of gave them to them, which is that there are no updates 'cause you haven't done much. You're getting back into it now.
Yeah.
So are you gonna do more with Destroyer coming forward? Yeah. I know you've been doing a bit.
Yeah. Yeah. So I have actually quite a few things.
I'm gonna talk about it here because I don't know what your, your cadence is for releasing these things. So
this is gonna come out like next week.
Oh, okay. Well, I can give people like a sneak on it sounds like I worked with, uh, Jamie, uh, Wera.
Okay, nice.
So I'm doing a collab with them coming
out. Wow. I didn't know that.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Sick.
So I'm stoked on that. I designed and producing my own destroyer tennis shoe.
Oh, really?
Yeah. That's the last thing I didn't want. I could never do. I I
Can you talk about the wearer thing or however everyone says it differently? I actually asked Jamie last day. I'm like, who? How do you say it?
He's like, some people say we are, some people say where are like the receptionist says we are. Like we are tools. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh, that's kind of funny.
Okay.
But yeah. Anyway. How did that come about?
So you were supposed to be on a call when we were at
Hoonigan. Okay.
With Jamie. Okay. And you, you knowhow, you had something going on.
So I took the call and talked to Jamie. Sounds right. Yeah. And then I tried to, we tried to do the sticker. This is when Jamie first started the sticker wall. So he tried to send stickers to him like that. And we just kind of kept in contact and he wanted to figure out how we could work together.
Right.
And then I did the shirt that they were wearing at SEMA last year.
Oh, okay. Cool.
So then like, we're gonna do something. It's gonna be similar like I do with all, you
know, they're a partner of the podcast now
too. Yeah, yeah. I know. Yeah. Congratulations. You got partners. Like you got heat. I used, you have to do the deliverable part of your show at the end.
Heat wave. Yeah. It's good. Um, but that's how you gotta pay bills.
Yeah. It's how you pay bills. But it's also like, it's companies I like.
Yeah.
I could name all the people who work at these companies. Right. Yeah. It's like,
that's good.
Jamie Atra, like, you know, Justin at Heat Wave. It's nice to know that. Yeah.
Scott at fcp. Yeah. So,
yeah. So it's good. So like, we're doing that same, same, very similar I did with Hot Wheels. Mm-hmm. I did the design, people can purchase it. I'm the proceeds are gonna go to Child Mind Institute. Mm-hmm. So I'm doing that. And then they're putting up a tool cabinet. The, like the roller.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I don't know, we're trying to auction it off. I don't know how that's gonna really work. I gotta figure out how we can make that work.
Mm-hmm.
Easier for people. But, so I'm excited about that.
Are you doing all your own fulfillment or are you Yeah.
Yeah. Which is like kind of made it, I'm going back to like.
I tried to do a lot of the stuff previously. So like I, anything I wanna do, like I wanna make jewelry like L three, model it. I'll make jewelry, which worked out really well for me. I think I like it. Something else in an outlet. So yeah. I'm like, when you get an order from me, I'm signing the note, I'm packing it.
I bought a shirt from you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, actually I have some gifts for you actually. Oh, sweet, sweet. Yeah, this is, I see this is the thing where Scott gets free stuff.
No, no. But I wanna, I buy stuff for my friends. I
appreciate it though, because
that's the way to support it, you know? So,
but you mean
if you wanna gimme stuff, I'll take it.
Yeah, yeah.
But if I see something I like, I'm just gonna buy it.
No, no, I appreciate it. And it's hard because
it was like a good burgundy that was a good color. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was like, so that was, and I do appreciate it 'cause like that means a lot because it means you stopped to take that time to do
that alone.
It's not the money.
Yeah. It's
stopping, it's going through the order process to go and be like, oh, I want that. And then I have to click through and do all of that. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. So I appreciate that. So
versus people who just drop in the, who just drop into the comments and they're like, yo, hook it up.
Yeah, yeah, sure. Buddy. Exposure. Nice. Sure. Got you. So I'm doing that and then I'm doing, uh, my own shoe. So like, I've designed obviously soft goods, but I've done handmade acetates outta Japan.
Mm-hmm.
I've done salvage denim, I've done watches, which is funny. If you have something shipped into Switzerland, just right inside the border, you can call it Swiss built, Swiss assembled.
Anyways, the thing I never got to do is shoes. So my buddy, who I haven't seen forever, used to work at this ex uh, skate shop and Chronicle Extreme. And I was tight with the, the owner Louie. And then that kid went on. His brother is a shoe designer and he wanted to become a shoe designer. He's the one who designed, uh, Musk Skytop.
Okay, yeah, I saw that.
So his name's Josh Brewbaker. He, he helped me randomly maybe two years ago about like, are you this dude? I'm like, yeah, it's me. Alright, cool. So I started following each other and in last January he's like, I'm gonna do a shoe school if anyone's interested. And that was January 25 and October of 25 said, I'm doing it.
So it was an investment in myself.
Mm-hmm.
And I did that for five days in Santa Ana at his spot. Oh. And I learned how to do it. And part of the deal was like, once you have your design, get it made. So I have my own shoe.
Sick.
So I designed, how does that
come out?
Hopefully April. We'll see
that. Uh, shoes are such a crazy one.
We never did shoes. 'cause there's just too much size scale. Like you're carrying just so many sizes.
Oh bro, this got outta hand.
Yeah.
So, but I'm like, I gotta like make some room. You're
going up to 14 or 13.
So the problem is that it's so funny that you mentioned that 'cause I was doing the design, I'm getting ready to pay my deposit to get production going and then the factory's like, uh, yeah.
We don't go up to that size. So I only have like eight, no. Five through 11 on this run.
Yeah. Well I won't be supporting then.
That's fine. I get it though. I knew I was gonna be missing that window.
Yeah.
So it sucks, but
get the first ones out. Yeah. Yeah. Mean that's the sizes that are gonna sell, right? I mean, what a
sample
size is a nine, right?
Yeah.
So
yeah. So like basically nines through 11 is it?
That's the winner. Yeah.
Yeah. Everything else is like really small, but it's fine. But yeah, excited to do that. So basically Destroy right now is like, just like is my place to do things that I won't be able to do for clients.
Mm-hmm.
Like my current clients, like DBK, like they're two wheel dirt bike Modo freestyle.
Right? Yeah. Really awesome though. Right? And then I'm working with Vaughn. Mm-hmm.
On
stuff or RTR and fun haver and stuff like that. And that's like doing their thing and it's like, this is where I can do the things I wanna do that are like outside. Plus that's not everyone's, not everyone's making them like that.
Yeah. And I look, that's the whole reason that I started 3, 2, 1 was like. People are like, what is it? I'm like, it's a company that allows me to do things.
Yeah. The
thing you do, like sometimes it's a production company, sometimes it might be a product company. I'm in the process of creating a couple books 'cause I miss analog and that type of stuff.
And so all of that stuff is like, I can do all of it. Like that's one of the nice things, like that's why you have Destroyer.
Yeah. So it's like a place you can make the thing you want. Yeah. So if you wanna make some sign stuff, you can make some sign stuff there and go through there.
Yeah.
And it's fine.
Speaking of the books, did you see Larry's book?
Uh, I did at sema, but I haven't actually, like I haven't sat and, and enjoyed it. Have you?
Yeah, I bought it. Yeah, it's cool. The, the early photos from him, power tour in there with us.
Oh really? Oh, that's
fine. Yeah, you're sitting on Nova and then the 50 five's in there.
Oh, nice, nice,
nice. NA's actually edited it.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Well I know Ryan, who, who is the guy who runs the book company that did that. Mm-hmm. 'cause he's been, he's been, I've been talking with him about potentially doing some books and stuff like that. So yeah, it's, uh, I mean Larry just has such a, Larry could probably make 20 bucks with the amount of photos.
Larry. He has Larry
dude as much. He works so hard. He deserves everything he has right now. It's crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah. But I mean, dude, he's an arrive and drive guy now. Like, he's reached a level.
I love that. As a, as a level arrive and drive is definitely a status level.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. You get to that. Yeah. Yeah.
I like that. So,
um, one last thing.
Mm-hmm.
Uh. So we talked about potential reunion You're in.
Yeah, I'm in. It is interesting. I heard the stories, the threads going.
Yeah. Yeah. There's obviously the group chat. Yeah. Of everybody who's now ev everyone seems in, but what were you gonna say? What's the interesting part?
Um, if we can actually come down with the actual unified vision of how this is gonna work.
Yeah. I mean, look, you guys should just have to all, I think at some point everyone trust the
process.
Someone has to trust the process. And also there's a bit of the trust us menu of like how this is gonna happen.
Mm-hmm. So, 'cause not if everybody has a say in how this happens, it won't happen. Yeah. So I think there's gotta be like the committee that everyone agrees, okay, these people will make it happen. And then like your elective representatives. And then from there, uh,
we could go wrong
from there. We make it happen.
'cause I, I, I'll be honest, I think, I think three of us should figure it out for like the main piece. Mm-hmm. And then other people could do different stuff. Like, one of the things is we should have a merch drop that's tied to all of this. Yeah. 'cause like, and I'm just being extremely transparent, this has to make money.
Otherwise like, like no one has time in their life anymore. Like at Hoonigan, we could all take a week to go do something. 'cause you still got a paycheck at the end of the week. Yeah. With this, you take a week or two off of your life of things, period. It just went from a
week to two weeks.
Well, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because no, it's because it's a week to make it, and then it's, it'll be a week to promote it or to do whatever comes. Yeah, no, I understand it. Like, it takes time for people that, like, there has to be a math in it that makes sense. Right. And like, everyone thinks people make money on YouTube, but like, this episode will make like $60.
Like, that's just how, that's how life is. And that doesn't pay Nick. Right. So, um, but so it's one of those things where like, that has to be so, like, there has to be like a cool merch and like, when I say merch, I think we should do something really special for it. Not just like, like we've got some time to plan something.
It shouldn't just be like a t-shirt.
So here's the thing. That's where planning comes into play.
Yeah. So I've heard,
yeah, so the plan is like, you were asking like, what's everyone's schedule looking like? We gotta figure that out. But I think it would be fun.
Yeah,
it would be interesting.
We, we, what we should do is we should just vote on a group of people who need to do this, right?
Like, I've already voted myself in.
Of course, it's your idea, it's spawn from you, so it needs,
but then there needs to be like the y yang to my yang. Like there needs to be the more pragmatic person who is there to make sure that I don't, 'cause if it's like just me and Zach and Ron, y'all are fucked.
Because like that's just like the worst people to be planning
something. Yeah. I've already heard like, oh, so sabotage is okay. Yeah, I've heard all this other stuff. It's like, I think just trying to figure out,
at some point when I, when this comes out, I want to print the group chat of this. We'll redact some stuff.
You know, you
have to,
but I think we need to print the group chat of this so everyone understands like the conversation that was being had internally.
Mm-hmm.
About this. So
yeah.
Anyway, all right, well I look forward to that. So route 66 or something like that and I'll be like power tore all over again,
but
shorter and hopefully less painful.
But it sounds
even
more painful. I dunno about
if it's less painful, it's just not as good of
a story. I know you like the story, the storytelling is coming
up. Storytelling. Sometimes requires pain.
I think almost all of it does.
It just is. Yeah. Yeah. It's part of the process. Pain is the process.
Exactly. So
anyway, Jon.
All right, man.
Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming all the way out here. I know you're now gonna have to go sit in traffic or go do something else.
I'm gonna go to. Museum and go check out Robert Williams
exhibit. Oh, sick.
Sick. Yeah,
that's,
I'm gonna do, so
sounds good. Thank you everybody for another episode.
This one was a bit all over the place, but that's kind of all our conversations are.
Yeah.
So this feels really normal for the two of us.
A hundred percent.
Yeah. I didn't, I didn't check like 19 of the things I wanted to talk about, but just another reason to have Jon back on.
Okay. Then we won't talk about those either.
Yeah. All right. Bye.
The mailbox is, the mailbox is the mailbox. Cannot accept any message at this time. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.
Our friends at Vyper Industrial asked us to do a bit of r and d since I put in some serious C time on their stools, and I have notes. Sure. They're extremely robust. It's in the name, but no one ever talks about the negatives to start.
They roll too good. Yeah. They've added locks, but I'm an all gas, no brakes kind of guy. Second, they're way too comfortable, aren't they? Intended for wrenching, not scrolling. Instagram for six hours when you're supposed to be finishing your build. Lastly, the fabrication quality. It's better than all of my builds.
Vyper, do you even think about my ego? Anyway, if you must go to Vyper industrial.com. That's Vyper with a Y. Of all the sunglass companies out there, you might ask why Heat Wave, aside from them being friends of mine, they just make great shades, awesome styles, cool collabs, smart tech. They even have extra large sizes for big heads like me.
And for those of you wearing this on the job, they make ANSI Z eight seven spec safety glasses too. But what really attracts me to Heat Wave is that they are physically a part of our culture. You'll find them everywhere from King of the Hammers to formula drift. You'll see everyone wearing Heat Waves at your local track day event.
Damn, you might even turn laughs with the co-founder Justin, because they're one of us. So one more reason to choose Heat Wave Visual to fix your face. I'm a tool dork. My obsession might even dwarf my addiction to cars. I love collecting unique and specialty tools, which is how I initially fell in love with Wera.
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