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Hold onto your hats — this episode is a wake-up call, a rallying cry for the soul of rural America. Senator Peter Welch of Vermont spills the truth bombs on agriculture, healthcare, trade, and the values that bind us all — forces that are threatened but must be fought for with passion, integrity, and boldness. If you're tired of the noise, ready for real solutions, and crave authentic voices, this episode is for you.
In this episode:
- The real fights behind the farm bill and why it’s more than just policy — it’s about survival and dignity.
- How tariffs, trade wars, and market loss hurt farmers and rural communities — beyond political talking points.
- The erosion of core rural values like community, self-reliance, and tolerance — and why they matter to everyone.
- The crisis in rural healthcare and what it reveals about government failures.
- The dangerous politicization of justice, border enforcement, and immigration — and the urgent need for oversight and accountability.
- Practical solutions to fix broken systems — healthcare, labor, trade — rooted in respect and bipartisan action.
- A call to approach rural folks not as victims or subjects but as neighbors, allies, and innovators.
Resources & Links:
Connect with Senator Welch:
- Senator Welch's official website
- Senator Welch on Bluesky
- (00:00) - Introduction to The Hot Dish
- (01:40) - The Farm Bill Debate
- (06:44) - Challenges Facing Rural America
- (12:30) - Healthcare in Rural Communities
- (19:19) - The Impact of Immigration Policies
- (24:15) - The Role of the Judiciary
- (32:06) - Conclusion and Reflections on Rural Values
- (39:45) - Mailbag + outro
Creators and Guests
Host
Heidi Heitkamp
U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp served as the first female senator elected from North Dakota from 2013 – 2019. he is the founder and Chair of the One Country Project, an organization focused on addressing the needs and concerns of rural America. Heidi was recently named the Director of the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago, a university she has long been committed to and a place where she enjoys engaging with students over civic discussions while encouraging them to seek opportunities in public service to our country. Heidi also serves as a contributor to both CNBC and ABC News.
Host
SC
Producer
Susanna Cassisa
What is The Hot Dish?
Former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp and her brother, KFGO radio talk show host Joel Heitkamp, engage in animated discussions with newsmakers, elected leaders, and policymakers who are creating new opportunities for rural Americans and finding practical solutions to their challenges. Punctuated with entertaining conversations and a healthy dose of sibling rivalry, The Hot Dish, from the One Country Project, is informative, enlightening, and downright fun.
Heidi (00:05)
Welcome to The Hot Dish, Comfort Food for World America. I'm Heidi Heitkamp.
Joel (00:09)
And I'm Joel Heitkamp, and we've got a great episode for you today. Heidi, why don't you tell us about this? Tell me about who's coming up here.
Heidi (00:17)
Well, you know, I thought about a couple ways that I could introduce Peter, Peter Welsh, is a junior senator from the great state of Vermont. The first codel I ever went on as a senator, Peter, who is a great friend and is a great friend of Joe Donnelly's was invited along. And I realized, you know, there were smart people in the House of Representatives. Maybe I should get to know more.
Peter (00:39)
you
Heidi (00:42)
Peter, you were at the top of the heap. Let me tell you, after I examined all those people below you, I said, no, I was right. My first depression, Peter's just an anomaly. ⁓
Peter (00:50)
Well,
what you're not saying, Heidi, is that's a low bar.
Heidi (00:56)
We are so excited to have you here. I think ⁓ what excites us the most is you are a Northeast, ⁓ I'd say moderate from Vermont, who serves on the Ag Committee. And I think a lot of people would find that surprising, but I think ⁓ there is so much to be said about what's happening in rural America and how it affects places like Vermont. And so we wanted to...
Get your impressions, especially first, because it's big for us in the Midwest part of the ⁓ country. Whether you think we're going to actually see a farm bill and not an extension, and what's behind the scenes? Who's negotiating with who and is it going to happen?
Peter (01:40)
Well, I'm skeptical about a farm bill, but I'll tell you, there's two reasons. Because number one, a lot of the things that are important in the farm bill got through the one big beautiful bill, but that was things that helped the commodities to some extent. And to some extent, other of the agricultural things that are really important to both sides. But second, the big fight on the farm bill
⁓ is about whether we will be able to include the nutrition program and that's been cut. And as you know, Heidi, generally there's been an alignment to have a grand compromise between trying to get what the farm community needs. What the farm community needs is really varied. What Vermont needs, what ⁓ cotton needs, what soybeans need is often different. But second, there's a real attack on
on the nutrition programs. And I'm sad about that because my experience is that farmers are take enormous pride in the fact that they feed America. And in fact, the things they grow are helpful for the nutrition programs. The other thing is that the whole budget deadlock that we're having,
think is an impediment to my being confident that we'll get a farm bill, but we've got to keep at it.
But I do want to talk about that and the elements of the firm bill. And I think why it's very, very important ⁓ that we make a renewed effort and that Democrats do every single thing we can to get a firm bill passed.
Joel (03:19)
Well, let me ask this because of the big, beautiful bill and because of the aid that went out to farmers and is going out to farmers continually and what's happened with crop insurance. Do we need a farm bill or is this just one of those things where every time we want to look like the hero? If you're the administration, you just stride in and say, I love farmers. I blew up their market. But here's twelve billion dollars.
Peter (03:46)
See, I think focusing on quote a farm bill as though the passage of the farm bill addresses what I think is a very perilous ⁓ situation for our farm farmers across the country misses the heart of the problem. agriculture is under intense pressure. ⁓ You know, the tariffs have destroyed the markets that our Midwest farmers used to count on.
I went to Iowa and Nebraska. And when I was asking farmers, do they want to get some of that tariff money to subsidize them? On the one hand, sure, they're desperate and there's bankruptcies and their income is down. In Nebraska, gross domestic product is down. Iowa gross domestic product is down. But what they said very clearly to me is no, they want to grow their crops and they want to sell their crops. They don't want to get a government hand up. And you've got this contradiction in the
Trump policy, where on the one hand, he's unilaterally imposing these tariffs. And then these tariffs are, by the way, raising input costs for a lot of our farmers. know farmers in Vermont, we get a lot of our fertilizer from Canada that is up about 15%. A lot of our farmers have to get products that have steel or aluminum. Those tariffs are up. So the input costs are going up. We all know that the commodity price has been going down.
And then when you add to it that you lost the markets that you counted on. So the China market for soybeans is basically gone. And it's now what the practical farmers are telling me who are making that commodity. They know that once you lose a market, it's hard to get it back. And China is going primarily to Argentina and Brazil. So just talking about
passing a farm bill, think, misses the point of what some of the dynamics are that are making things so difficult for our farmers. My view, we've got to have a real discussion about how do we save agriculture and why is it important to not just rural America, but to all of America? So that's something I like to talk about. Just we pass a farm bill tomorrow. What does that necessarily mean for those folks who've lost their markets in Minnesota or
⁓ Montana or ⁓ Nebraska in Iowa.
Heidi (06:19)
Yeah, and when you go back
and you look at it, I think people always ask me, well, you seem really up on what's happening with trade policy or what's happening with foreign relations. I said, that's our market. And you and I were both in Munich at the security conference. And there is a sea change. This idea that the United States is still the world leader among what Carney called middle powers.
Peter (06:31)
Right.
Heidi (06:44)
I didn't see it there. I saw a lot of interest in doing business in Africa, lot of interest in doing business in Asia. And a lot of people saying, as long as we have this disruption in our relationship with the United States, we're going to figure out workarounds. And that's really what's happened in the market, this workaround in Argentina and Brazil. And China basically saying, I like nothing more than the United States.
Peter (07:05)
see it. Yeah.
Heidi (07:14)
clearly pissing off the rest of the world because it only benefits us.
Peter (07:17)
Yeah.
Yeah. That's really true, Heidi. But you you asked me, I'm from Vermont, I'm from the Northeast. I mean, it is rural in Vermont, but my interest in agriculture started, I went to the state Senate in 1981 hadn't even started a garden then, but I had this sense in Vermont that the values of rural Vermont, you know, that self-reliance that farmers have.
the commitment to their own communities that they have, where there is an absolute, you can get along or not get along with your neighbors, but you're always, always going to help your neighbor. And there's actually what I've seen in rural America, a lot of tolerance. You might think somebody's weird, they have a kind of weird lifestyle, but you know what, they're your neighbor. So you're going to help them. You're not going to necessarily just judge them.
And a lot of those values are under assault, think, in this country. ⁓ Acceptance, putting community first, ⁓ and tolerance. And I think it's there in rural America. And rural America is much more varied. It's not like it's just farmers. know, it used to be a lot of small manufacturing, a lot of small businesses, ⁓ as well as a lot of the farm community.
that was growing the crops, but it was very varied and interspersed. And we can't afford to lose the values of rural America because what's happening is that gets hollowed out is a lot of the things that are essential to the wellbeing of all of us, whether we're in the urban community or a rural community, is that sense of community. It's that sense of community. Cause you know, people like to work hard, know, as farmers have to, but
That's a good thing for us to get up and face today. What you want to have is some sense that it will pay off. You'll be able to pay your bills. You'll have a little extra room so you can feel good about contributing to your community and the volunteer fire department or a volunteer in a school, all those things that you see in rural America. And what, you know, of course we've seen a real shift towards Trump and what
I think there's some legitimate criticism, Heidi, you and I know, both of us as Democrats, there's some legitimate criticism of us, which we have to reckon with. But what I see going on with the policies of the Trump administration is going to be very, very harmful ⁓ to rural folks, whether they are Republican-oriented or Democratic-oriented. Number one, the tariffs. Number two, a trade policy where we're losing markets. So no matter how hard our farmers work,
they're not going to be able to meet the cost of production. ⁓ Number three, ⁓ the loss of the funding for healthcare in rural America, our community hospitals, they're a lifeline for us. They play a huge role, not just in providing healthcare, but those institutions are anchors for our community. And now with 15 million people soon to lose Medicaid, your hospitals and ⁓
in North Dakota and mine in Vermont, people are gonna show up. Those hospitals are gonna try to give them care as best they can. The only difference is they won't get the reimbursement, the low reimbursement for Medicaid. So that's a real, real threat. You know, one of the other things is the consolidation in farming is not just farming, but on the buy side and the sell side. You know, our farmers have to take the price that the big buyers essentially dictate.
And the input costs are whatever the consolidated industries require. So you have this situation where our farmers actually create the wealth by tilling the land, by planting the crop and harvesting it. And it's a significant amount of wealth, but the surplus, the benefit of that wealth goes very little to the farmers, but much more to the seed companies, the fertilizer companies.
that are consolidated so they can really manage the price. Those kind of issues that I just mentioned that are putting a squeeze on small businesses all around the country, those are things that have to be addressed not just for the benefit of the agriculture community or farmers, but for everyday citizens who are getting in many cases ripped off because of pricing power that comes from the concentration ⁓ of ownership and the consolidation basically kind of monopoly situations.
You know, for me, my involvement in rural issues is a respect for the people there in rural admiration. Be a view that the challenges that they face where they want to be able to build community, but that means you've got to have hospitals, got to have education, you've got to have broadband. Those are things we all need. So I see it as a way where we can try by solving the problems we all face to find a way to work together better.
Heidi (12:30)
Yeah.
Joel (12:30)
Well, OK, so as a radio
talk show host in many of the states that you just mentioned, let me throw out a couple of things that I hear. And here's my precursor. mean, the the people you just described are people that were in tuxedos in my wedding. So these are friends, ⁓ you know, but but we buy from Canada equipment and the tariffs are killing us, absolutely killing us as it come across the border. Number two, ⁓ you talked about the consolidation, that guy that
Peter (12:53)
Right.
Joel (13:00)
here in the Dakotas that was raising 2000 acres now is raising 5000 acres. ⁓ know, and what's what's he do? He hires a couple of guys and he goes out in the exchange and he gives them money and says, there, go buy your health insurance. Well, that day is over. The big, beautiful bill took care of that. You know, I totally agree with you as ⁓ a man who has a wife who helps out the local nursing home. She's an RN. But. ⁓
Peter (13:16)
Right.
Joel (13:27)
That being said, I go back to my previous question, which is what's the risk ⁓ for the very guys that I call as friends that I grew up playing softball with? What's the risk? Because they vote a certain way and they vote against their interests. And their answer is, well, they're they'll help out when when trouble comes, they'll help out. They're not going to look at Brazil.
They're not going to look at the investment China is making long term in Brazil. We've got a congresswoman who came on my show and I pushed the same question I'm pushing now. And her answer was, well, maybe they need to learn to raise other crops. I mean, she literally said that as though these guys were too stupid to realize what crops to raise. And so if they're guaranteed that they're going to get ⁓
whether you call it subsidy, emergency help, those type of things. Whenever times get really tough in the farm community, what's the risk in voting the way they vote?
Peter (14:29)
Well, I think, I actually, I mean, that's a question for everybody, because I think for them individually to answer, because I think farmers are pretty practical people. it's an easy thing to say they don't vote for their interests, but I think they really were fed up with a lot of the things they perceived on the part of Democrats and how we were acting. And I think there's got to be some, I think, understanding that I think is coming.
where these terrorists are killing them. Those are a voluntary policy, an arbitrary policy by the president. And they hurt farmers really badly. Number two, there's a collateral damage where they lose markets. And farmers that I speak to get that and they worry about it. ⁓ Number three, ⁓ the immigration policy right now has gone from securing the border, which people support.
deporting criminals that people support to these ⁓ christianome raids on workplaces, including farms. We had a dairy farm that was raided up here. And I am seeing that a lot of our farmers are saying, hey, wait a minute, we've got to have labor and we've got to find a way where that can be provided. But this overreach where it's kind of roundups of people means that a lot of farms are losing their markets and they're losing their labor.
Okay. So these are policies that have been aggressively pursued by the Trump administration. So I think. Farms can figure out how this is affecting their bottom line. But I also think there's got to be a lot of outreach and trust building and respect shown by Democrats who articulate an alternative way to approach that starts with, Hey, what you are doing is really important to our country and New York values the way you.
really do everything you can to sustain your community, to pass your farm down from generation to generation. That is really valuable and we have to help you make your job easier, your very, very tough job easier. So it's a combination of, think, some humility on the part of Democrats like me, ⁓ who really admire and respect the farm communities to demonstrate that.
Heidi (16:55)
Mm-hmm.
Peter (16:55)
And then to have practical policies, not just a trash and Trump, ⁓ where farmers can say, yeah, that can work or that'll be better than what we have.
Heidi (17:02)
Yeah. yeah,
absolutely agree with you, Peter. I mean, you know, there is a reason and ⁓ it's not just about economics for people. They want it. They want you to know that they know their life. But it's interesting. And this is maybe a small sliver of optimism for Democrats. But when you ask farmers, rural people, do the does the Democratic Party understand your challenges? Overwhelmingly, they say, hell no, no.
They have no idea. But you ask if the Republican Party understands their challenges and they say the same thing. They don't feel connected. so there is an opportunity here in this disruption to have a conversation about what could work better. But I will tell you that we can't do it without international markets. I think the Republican colleagues of yours who are cowards on this trade stuff,
Peter (17:30)
Right.
Heidi (17:58)
They're just hoping the Supreme Court takes care of it for them. But you know what? They're going to turn to 301s or whatever other kind of tariff authority they have because the president loves tariffs. He loves going around saying, look what I've done. And so there is just a real opportunity, I think, to have an economic conversation, but leading in with a respectful acknowledgment that we haven't done.
what we need to do. I want to just to drill down a little bit on healthcare because I think that the rural hospital system, the rural healthcare system is kind of the canary in the coal mine. It's where you're gonna see the effects of bad economic policy, bad governmental policy on healthcare and it won't just stay in the rural hospitals. It will be a contagion that will take out a lot of
good work that's being done in hospitals. There's these funds that are being allocated right now for rural health care. I'm reading a lot about that. It's not been good. I mean, I think a lot of people thought that that would be the rescue, life line. And ⁓ that's not what it's looking. So can you just offer some perspectives on whether this rural health care fund is gonna solve the problem of rural health care?
Peter (19:19)
is absolutely not gonna solve the problem. mean, what happened is that
They cut rural healthcare by a couple hundred billion dollars. All 15 million people are going to lose their healthcare. Well, that caused a lot of consternation, even among some people who were constantly bending their knee to Trump, some of the Republicans. So to substitute for losing 200 plus billion dollars, they came up with like ⁓ a couple of billion dollar program that gets spread out. And it was essentially a way to secure the votes they needed to pass the one big, beautiful bill.
but it doesn't address what is the crisis in healthcare. Joel, you mentioned a lot of farmers, this is separate from the cut in the 15 million people off Medicaid. There's a lot of farmers and small businesses that were buying their healthcare on the exchange, Obamacare. And there were tax credits that made healthcare somewhat affordable for hardworking people. Those have expired. A number of us have been trying to
But here's what that means. I'll give you a Vermont example. A Northeast Kingdom farmer that's up in the northeast of Vermont, beautiful part of the state, this very successful farmer up there, Trump voter, wonderful guy, calls me and he says, Peter, if you guys don't extend those tax credits, you don't need to worry about me and healthcare. I go, why not? He goes, because I won't have any. His premiums have gone from 900 bucks a month. And by the way, he has a
His wife works off the farm as well, right? So 900 bucks a month to $3,200 a month, okay? And that is an indication that the system just doesn't work. It's just not as though that farmer had anything to do with the premium going from 900 to 3,200. It wasn't like he could do anything about it. He just had to pay the premium. So that's an added problem because a lot of our...
our firm families do depend on that credit. Go ahead.
Heidi (21:26)
Yeah. And Peter,
the people who are going to go without health insurance are the healthier people that you want in the risk pool. And so, you know, if you have a chronic condition and you need that health care, you're going to find some way to scrape up the dollars to buy that insurance so that you can get your cancer treatments or whatever. But if you're healthy and you don't have any chronic conditions, you're going to roll the dice and hope that it doesn't catch you.
Peter (21:37)
Exactly.
Heidi (21:56)
And so it's just so stupid. It is such a stupid, stupid policy. And I can't, I mean, I kind of thought that they would be scared, your colleagues would be scared by now by all the stories like the one you just told and that they would come back, but it tells you how much they have this visceral hate of Obamacare that they can't even vote for what works in Obamacare.
Peter (21:56)
I did that six-act.
Well, that's true. And we've got a broken health care system. We pay the most and get the least. And again, you know, I come back to why am I so concerned about rural issues? I think that threat of losing health care in rural America is no different than it is in urban America. And if you're in rural America, it doesn't matter whether you're Republican oriented or Democratic oriented, you need health care for your family. So what I try to
and try to do, and I think we have to do, is talk to one another around what's the problem that we face and how do we solve it. And we're not doing anything on healthcare except ⁓ making it worse. And on immigration, where we're not doing anything about the labor issue ⁓ because we're focusing on just the culture war, the immigration war, and we're not solving a problem is bad. And this country has got
to get back to making life better for people. And that means addressing the betterment of things we all need like healthcare, like an ability to sell our crops, ⁓ like an ability to get paid well for our labor. So, you know, I see for me being involved on the rural issues as a way to try to build some bipartisan support for practical solutions to things that affect all of us.
Joel (23:48)
So how many businesses in Vermont have you seen, Senator, that have I don't want to say given up completely. What I want to say is stopped putting out the help wanted sign. ⁓ I've got a couple of businesses that have talked to me who have said, you know what, we could expand this business. There's more of a need, but we can't find the labor to do it. We've tried. You know, Joel, we've bought ads on your radio show.
Peter (24:11)
Yep.
Joel (24:15)
⁓ We can't find the people to do it. They're just not there. And so instead of being an employer of 50 people, we're an employer of 25 people with half the production of what the world needs out there when they want more. And so basically what those businesses have given up doing is trying to expand. They say, this is our size. This is what we can do. And I'm curious if you're seeing the same thing.
Peter (24:34)
Yeah.
We are very much. And then that's labor supply. then very much the biggest problem our employers have are finding labor. So yes. And then the other is keeping labor. know, it's a lot in the construction industry, a lot in the farm industry. mean, it's like the best known secret. You've got a lot of folks that ⁓ don't have their papers. And what is
terrible is that in addition to securing the border, we should also have a process where people can get legal status to work if it's an area where we absolutely have to have the workers and don't have them like in the farm community. So, you know, I think we've got to do a lot better where the focus is not just on the rhetoric and trying to play the immigration issue for political advantage. It's to deal with the immigration issue to help
Heidi (25:38)
Yeah.
Peter (25:39)
our employers and our communities. And that can be on the one hand, keeping a secure border and deporting criminals, but on the other, can be a legal process where our firm, can hire labor in a legal way.
Heidi (25:54)
Yeah, and you know, when I first got to the Senate, one of the big bills that first passed was a bill that got almost 70 votes, which was immigration reform, lots of compromises. And you guys were over in the House. You couldn't take it up because Paul Ryan saw it as a political albatross. And, you know, it became kind of amnesty and there was nothing in there that was about amnesty. And so, you know, it's just the political winds have to change. And I think this extreme behavior on the part of the administration.
Peter (26:03)
Yeah.
No, you're not.
Yeah.
Heidi (26:23)
I think that that is gonna drive hopefully some more rational analysis. But Senator, before we let you go and we told you, you gotta get out there and get some exercise. hear you've been out cross-country skiing. We don't have a lot of snow in North Dakota. In fact, it was 60 degrees in Bismarck yesterday. I just have to tell you, holy buckets, it's changing. Anyway, you're also on the Judiciary Committee and we all watch kind of with our mouths open like, my God, can you do that?
Peter (26:40)
man.
Heidi (26:50)
the performance of Pan Bondi over in the House. Can you give us some insights on what you think is going to happen with the Epstein files? Whether there's going to be bipartisan support in the Senate to sanction anyone, to move this issue forward instead of sweeping it under the rug?
Peter (27:08)
Well, number one, the F-scene files should be fully released. And it's shocking what we've seen from them already because this started out with him being a predatory ⁓ sexual.
criminal. It turns out he's so connected to an elite world where he was doing everything he can to connect people with money to provide sex. You know, that clearly is that an influence. And it was a world where none of us knew who all these people were that were part of his sphere of influence. But
People would show up and be around and what each one of them did, you don't know. But what is so really shocking is that all these people who are really well positioned were still very much involved with him even after he was convicted of sexual crimes. And I think it's really shocking and it really reinforces people's view that there's a world out there that is just beyond ⁓ responsibility and beyond accountability.
So we should definitely have access to all of that information. Trump resisted forever, said it's fake news. Ultimately, with the House in a bipartisan way, letting that information out or requiring that it distributed, we're now seeing resistance from the Bondi White House. By the way, remember when Bondi said she's got the list of all the people right on her desk and then suddenly she didn't?
Heidi (28:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Peter (28:49)
So now what they're in is stonewalling and Bonnie comes before, instead of answering questions, she attacks. So it would be like me saying in response to one of your questions, like, what do you think about the terrorists? I didn't like that question. I said, know, Heitkamp, you're a washed up, has been stupid lawyer. Nobody believes you. That's the answer she gives.
Heidi (29:12)
I wish you had said that
about Joel and not me.
Peter (29:16)
Ha
Joel (29:16)
Who I might add senator is really bad at P-Nuckle, but that's a whole other issue.
Heidi (29:19)
Yeah, that's not
true.
Peter (29:21)
Yeah, you're all a bunch of has-been losers, you know? That's kind of what Bondi says. So I think most people figure out, you know what? That's not an answer. That's a dodge. But she's got an audience of one. ⁓ it's pretty outrageous because Trump, look at what he does. He just let out that video on his own, Truth Social, ⁓ that portrayed... ⁓
that our former president, first lady is apes, right? And said he didn't do anything wrong. So there is that there's an over the top quality and really detrimental quality to the level of discussion that we're having in this country because it hurts. It doesn't help. ⁓ And Bondi is like ⁓ all in on attack, attack, attack, denied, denied, denied, delayed, delayed, And ⁓
And her audience is to Trump. And what she's doing is turning the Justice Department, this is what's really, really, really awful. She's turning the Justice Department into a political attack machine for President Trump. And that is appalling, where people are getting prosecuted. They're trying to prosecute ⁓ Senator Kelly, Senator Slotkin, four of my colleagues from the House.
⁓ because they said that if you're asked to do something illegal, you don't have to agree to do it. I mean, and you're going to, and it's so pathetic that a grand jury didn't even indict. And, know, the lawyers say that any prosecutor can get a grand jury to present an indictment against a ham sandwich if they want. It's, how easy it is, but they couldn't get, they couldn't get an indictment here. So.
That's really truly one of the most scary things that's happening is using the Justice Department for political reasons.
Heidi (31:20)
So how do you, mean, how does this play out though? I mean, what role should the Senate play, Senate judiciary play? Is there a bipartisan interest in forcing the release of the extra three million documents that she's holding back on? They announced yesterday that they were done. ⁓ And I think if it weren't for Macy over in the House, I think this might've been slept under the rug if it hadn't been for, ⁓
Peter (31:49)
That's right.
Heidi (31:50)
Nancy Mace and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's no longer in the House, I think it would have been sheep just lemmings off the cliff with Trump. So what do you think the Senate's going to do? What do you think the House is going to do?
Peter (31:53)
Right. Yeah.
Yeah. No, I think.
Well, I'll tell you what is the saddest aspect of my service in the Senate right now. We're an independent branch of government, right? And we can disagree, Republicans and Democrats, amongst ourselves about what's the best policy. But we should all agree that it's our responsibility to fulfill the constitutional role that the Senate has. One of those roles is on taxing. And we've rolled over and let the president seize taxing authority.
There should be a unified front. No, that is our job, not yours. When it comes to oversight and you have this egregious conduct by the attorney general, in total lack of decorum, there should be a mutual Republican and Democrat condemnation of conduct that is so evasive. And what I've seen so far is by and large, with some exceptions,
My Republican colleagues are intimidated by Trump. ⁓ And I understand that because we've got this primary situa- everybody's afraid of getting primaried. ⁓ But that's the lament I have because this is not just about, you for taxes or are against taxes? Are you ⁓ for this foreign policy or that one? It's about, are you going to stand up for the separation of powers and the constitutional requirement that
we the legislature be in charge of spending and taxing and oversight. And we fold, the Senate Republicans by and large have folded on
Heidi (33:40)
Yeah, mean, honestly, yeah.
Well, Jim Jordan should have banged the gavel and said, I get you don't want to answer these questions. You don't answer them. But when you disrespect this committee, the way she disrespected the committee, you're disrespecting everybody. You're disrespecting the institution. And he just sat back and the Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde.
Peter (33:55)
Right. Right. That's exactly right.
Heidi (34:07)
performance, know, sweetest pie when it was a Republican asking a question when a Democrat, you know, she got out the whatever they say, you know, the oppo research and started, you know, trying to deflect. And, you know, I hope I hope that there are some folks within the Judiciary Committee, Republicans, some folks ⁓ who are having conversations in the back saying we can't let this be a contagion because what happens the next go around, Peter?
Peter (34:33)
Right.
Heidi (34:37)
what happens when it's the Democrat who behaves like that. I mean, it's just, that behavior is reprehensible no matter who you are.
Peter (34:38)
Absolutely.
Now that's it.
Well, see, I agree with that because I think each of us has a responsibility to the institution we're part of. So if you're in the legislature, know, Article 1 gives us authorities and responsibilities like on taxing and on spending. You can't delegate that to the executive. And what's happened so far during the Trump administration is executive overreach has been met with congressional capitulation.
⁓ And that's a danger because the whole separation of powers is based on the observation of human nature that if you have the concentration of power, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And that the tension between the branches is healthy for the durability of our democracy. And that's where, you know, I hope if we had a democratic president who was intruding on our
authority under the Constitution. Like on tariffs, I would stand up. I hope I would. I think I would. But that's certainly not what's happening right now with our Republican colleagues, even though these tariffs, especially for the farm community, are really, really brutal on the economic well-being of our farmers.
Heidi (36:04)
I
think they are so hoping that the court takes care of this so they don't have to do it. I I convinced that the third branch of government here is the one that they're relying on that may not serve. So Joel, we have time for one more question. Yeah, you're welcome.
Peter (36:10)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (36:13)
Senator
Peter (36:20)
Yeah.
Joel (36:23)
Well, thank you, Heidi. That's so nice of you.
And that's the way it was growing up, Peter, as well. Just so you know. Yeah, she. As long as you walked in a parade for you were OK. Let me let me ask you this. Should Pam Bondi be attorney general anymore?
Heidi (36:27)
Ha ha ha!
Peter (36:29)
should give you one question in one, but not the last bite of food at the table, I'll bet.
Heidi (36:38)
⁓
Peter (36:43)
No, no, she should not. Not at all.
Joel (36:47)
Should Kristi Noem be head of the Department of Homeland Security? Should the president start having the guts to start realizing that these people he's hired aren't doing the job and they're part of the reason that his numbers are atrocious and the American public doesn't really like him or respect
Peter (36:51)
my God, no. I mean, it's appalling what she's done. I mean, she...
Well, no, mean, Norman Bondi are breaching their duties and their responsibilities. mean, we Christy Noem said about those two people who were shot in Minneapolis that they were domestic terrorists. And we all saw on film, know, one was a 37 year old mother of three. The other was a 37 year old ⁓ nurse at the Veterans Administration. And both of them were highly respected in their communities. And she just cavalierly says they're ⁓
They're domestic terrorists. I mean, it's appalling. You can't believe that that is actually happening.
Heidi (37:48)
Well, Peter, no, thanks Joel. Peter, it is always a pleasure to have a conversation with you bringing that practical sense, but also, know, great message for Democrats in rural America. You got to lead with respect, you got to lead with acknowledgement of contribution and then have a discussion about what do you really need as opposed to, you know, this is what we're going to do. I have a friend who says, know, Democrats,
Joel (37:48)
Okay, Heidi, I picked on you, so you go ahead.
Yeah.
Peter (37:58)
Likewise.
Yeah.
Heidi (38:16)
approach rural America as missionaries and not neighbors and friends. And it's a good line, isn't it? Yeah. Well, I think it's true.
Peter (38:20)
That's so patronizing. know, and yeah,
you know, when I first ran for the general finish with this book, I ran for the state Senate. It was a big Republican district. And I had this view that if I did well in the most rural parts of the ⁓ county, then I could win. And the reason I had that view was that the rural folks could just size you up. And they started out with a skepticism when
politician shows up and you show up again and you show up again and you pay attention. If ultimately they trust you, then everyone's going to trust you or a lot of people. So I just have always had this rural orientation because I just am amazed at how smart people and rural people are smart because they figure out what they need to do to deal with what needs to be dealt with. You know, and that's like
being smart, it's being resilient. It's like facing the day. It's like, stop whining, get to work.
Heidi (39:26)
Yeah, get to work. know,
sitting and wringing your hands isn't going to solve the problem today, so get going. So thank you so much, Senator, for joining us on the hot dish. We really appreciate you coming on.
Peter (39:33)
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. Thank you, Sandra.
Bye, Joel. Yep, bye-bye.
Joel (39:40)
was nice to meet you.
Joel (39:45)
You know, we've got another great question in response to our episode with Janet Napolitano from a listener who shares her name. That's right. Janet Kay ⁓ in Oklahoma asks, why are we talking about reforming ICE? ⁓ Why aren't Dems talking about breaking up DHS and ending this bloated, inefficient agency? America's need disaster assistance and more.
efficient boarding for airports, not an unaccountable private army rampaging through the country. Heidi?
Heidi (40:19)
Well, I think they are. I think there is a lot of discussion. You know, the Department of Homeland Security was thrown together after 9-11. It's never been fully integrated and it's not logical, a lot of what happened there. And, you know, it is interesting because I used to argue that ⁓ the Bureau of Indian Affairs law enforcement should be under the FBI and have the access to the training, have the access to a much more professional law enforcement group.
You know, everything should be on the table. He's right. But we need interior immigration enforcement. I don't think there's any doubt about that. When somebody commits heinous crimes, who's in this country illegally, we need to have a way to arrest them and deport them. But what we're seeing is way beyond, way beyond ⁓ any kind of idea that even I think they had about ICE enforcement. This is all intimidation.
This is all for the show, guess it's all for some ⁓ commercial for President that Kristi Noem wants to eventually run. And so I think you're gonna hear a lot of conversation about funding TSA, funding the Coast Guard and funding FEMA separate from funding those other agencies. And then a discussion about how do you reform ⁓ border patrol and ICE.
We forget, I I want to remind people everybody is so focused on ICE, there's a lot of bad behavior from Border Patrol as well. so Border Patrol needs to go back to patrolling the borders and get out of interior enforcement.
Joel (41:58)
The one thing I don't hear Democrats talk enough about is where are they? You know, where are these human beings? How are they being treated? ⁓ You know, the general public doesn't like what they're seeing, clearly. I mean, you know that I live three and a half hours from downtown Minneapolis. So, you know, we're there. We know what was going on. That being said, that's what's happening that day. ⁓
Heidi (42:08)
Yeah.
Joel (42:24)
because of two incidents in Minneapolis, it stayed with people. But the folks that they took, the human beings and the little kids and everything that they took, where are they? What's happening to them? And it seems to me that as an opposition party and as a Congress, ⁓ we don't know.
And John Thune, you know, on this anniversary of somebody asking ⁓ Joseph McCarthy whether or not he had any human decency, you know, I'm still waiting for John Thune. I'm waiting for John Thune to say something, do something. These are human beings, Heidi.
Heidi (43:03)
Well, the people who have congressional folks who have tried to go into the detention centers to see what's going on, some detention centers have let them in. And when they come out, they're shocked by the conditions. They're shocked by the behavior. Here's another great example of something going on in rural Georgia. The Trump administration has just come in and bought a big warehouse where they're going to basically create a holding pen for a lot of the detainees.
Joel (43:17)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (43:33)
⁓ Interestingly enough, and I got to follow this up, ⁓ the people in the community say that was probably a facility worth about 20 million, but it was bought by over 100 million from a Russian oligarch. This is what's going on. When Peter in his discussion said, the money, you got to follow the money. And there's these private ⁓ prison system, ⁓ all of this is about the money.
And we've got to figure out ⁓ how to get the oversight that we need to stop the abuse that's happening. But you're absolutely right. There's a human toll. And the toll on someone like little Liam, having endured that, ⁓ what kind of trauma is he going to experience for the rest of his life? I mean, we just know that these life incidences have long-term consequences, especially for children. Anyway, it's sad day. So Joel, it's Lent.
Joel (44:25)
Agreed. Yep, agreed.
Heidi (44:32)
Tomorrow, we've got Ash Wednesday, and ⁓ you over the years have given up something. What are you gonna give up this year?
Joel (44:42)
Well, you know, I'm a fairly good Catholic in many ways, and this pope has me anxious to be Catholic again. ⁓ But full disclosure, I used to give up any form of alcohol during Lent, ⁓ but I don't know that it was a sacrifice when all my buddies were betting me I couldn't do it. And so.
You know, I'd make money actually during let and that I don't think is the intent of flat So I'll just I'll just stick to trying really hard to not eat meat on Fridays or on Ash Wednesday and I'll achieve that on about half of
Heidi (45:24)
have an idea. I have an idea for you. You could give up being mean to me.
Joel (45:25)
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, here's the thing, Hyde, you travel so much now, you know, I don't get half the shots I used to get it being me to you.
Heidi (45:40)
So you don't want to give up any opportunity? Is that the deal?
Joel (45:44)
No,
few chances I get and not only that, but if I don't do it, your husband's just going to pick up the slack. know that.
Heidi (45:49)
⁓ yeah. ⁓
yeah. Well, listen, I want to thank everybody for listening today. I think it was an engaging conversation we had with my friend Peter. ⁓ We want to remind you all to keep those ⁓ letters coming. We do read them and we are curious about what our listeners think. And so we want to thank you so much for joining us today on Hot Dish. It's brought to you by One Country.
Joel (46:13)
You know, and you can learn more about us at One Country by going to onecountryproject.org. That's onecountryproject.org.
Heidi (46:23)
And of course, we'll be back next week with the hot dish, comfort food for rural America.