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95% Content is a show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the 95% of buyers who are out-of-market today, but will be ready to buy in the future.
You can call it many different things: content marketing, demand creation, brand marketing, dark social, or zero-click content.
No matter what you call it, the goal is the same.
You want to reach future buyers on the social and content platforms they hang out on every single day, and in a way that compels them to want to work with you when they’re ready.
We’re going to cover how B2B companies can win with things like: organic social, short-form video, podcasting, YouTube, newsletters, webinars, and communities.
Because the best way to win today is to already be on your buyers short-list the day they decide they need a solution.
On this show hosted by Erik Jacobson, we’re going to explore how B2B content teams can do exactly that.
Intro [0:00:00]: A word to the wise keep her eyes on the 95%.
Erik [0:00:03]: I'm Erik Jacobson, Welcome to 95% Content, A show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the 95 percent...
Erik [0:00:12]: of buyers who are out of market today, but we'll be ready to buy in the future.
Erik [0:00:16]: Jess, thanks for joining me for an episode today.
Erik [0:00:23]: I've been following you for a while.
Erik [0:00:24]: I think it's great.
Erik [0:00:25]: We can have a conversation here, share it with everybody.
Erik [0:00:28]: And the goal of, like, this podcast, 95% Content is I think a lot of what you believe in as well.
Erik [0:00:36]: And so I think it'll be fun to explore not only just what you're currently doing with that strategy at Vector, which is where you're working today, but just also in general, look like, your philosophy as a marketer as a content leader in general.
Erik [0:00:51]: And so it's this idea that I think is becoming more and more popular of a concept, over the last twelve months, which is, like, ninety five percent of your market is not in market to buy today.
Erik [0:01:03]: Yeah.
Erik [0:01:04]: Essentially.
Erik [0:01:04]: Whatever you're doing to try to push them in market, is likely not gonna be successful because they just do not have a need right now.
Erik [0:01:12]: Yeah.
Erik [0:01:13]: So, like, we can try to get them with direct response ads.
Erik [0:01:15]: We can try to get them with cold email, push them to a demo, push them to a sales conversation, but it will simply not work because they're in a twelve twenty four or thirty six month contract with a different vendor.
Erik [0:01:27]: It's not on the top ten priorities right now, whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:01:31]: So there's this concept of, like, how do we build affinity and trust and awareness, with that huge, huge segment of our potential Tam today so that when they do move in market, they've already heard of us.
Erik [0:01:47]: And they at least wanna have a conversation with us.
Erik [0:01:49]: And so That's obviously kind of the focus of the show.
Erik [0:01:52]: I know it's something that I think you champion as well.
Jess [0:01:56]: One hundred percent.
Jess [0:01:57]: Well, first of all, let me say, most of my favorite podcasts are a Hatch production.
Jess [0:02:02]: So I'm really excited to be here because I've I've heard the Hatch name over and over and over at the end of of many of my favorite shows.
Jess [0:02:10]: So...
Erik [0:02:11]: Thank you.
Jess [0:02:11]: And again, right there, I've heard the Hatch name so many times right associated with some of the best shows and B to b.
Jess [0:02:17]: And that's such an important piece that I think a lot of marketers forget about simply because we're driven whether it's just kind of in our nature or if if it's top down pressure of just, like, where are the leads coming from?
Jess [0:02:29]: Where is the pipeline and how are we going to hit our goals?
Jess [0:02:33]: And so many times we get back when we try to say, like, well, first of all, the first thing we really need to do is build this pool of people who even just know who we are.
Jess [0:02:42]: Yes.
Jess [0:02:43]: You can't sell something if they don't know about it.
Jess [0:02:47]: So feels like a pretty important first step.
Jess [0:02:49]: And at the same time, so many marketing leaders and so many Ceos and founders really struggle with that idea.
Jess [0:02:55]: Of just warming people up for as long as it takes to get them to, kind of come over the line.
Erik [0:03:03]: Yeah.
Erik [0:03:03]: It's a tricky topic.
Erik [0:03:04]: It's one that I empathize with, but I do think that the education around it is starting to get more popular.
Erik [0:03:12]: And so this isn't to say that we shouldn't be accountable to the success of it Overall in terms of driving revenue.
Erik [0:03:20]: The whole point of all of marketing everything we're doing is to eventually and effectively drive revenue.
Erik [0:03:27]: And so the case to be made here is that this is a way to do that.
Erik [0:03:31]: Yep.
Erik [0:03:31]: And one that we should all be paying attention to.
Erik [0:03:35]: And so, yeah, I guess just for maybe a little bit of context, right now, you're the head of marketing at Vector.
Jess [0:03:41]: Yeah.
Erik [0:03:42]: You can probably do a better job of, like, describing the position.
Jess [0:03:45]: Let's hear it.
Jess [0:03:45]: Go for it.
Erik [0:03:46]: But, yeah, basically, it's, like, I would describe it as, you know, a contact based marketing platform.
Erik [0:03:51]: So basically what that means is, like, there are people who are engaging with your company on your website on ton of different platforms channels what have you.
Erik [0:04:01]: And you don't know who they are.
Erik [0:04:03]: Vector will help you identify who they are, so that you can start a conversation with them and help enable the sale a little bit more.
Erik [0:04:10]: It will also tell you about other potential prospects who are in market at the time right now, so that you can engage with them as well.
Erik [0:04:17]: And so this is one of those tools, I think that is a great tool in a twenty twenty five environment.
Erik [0:04:23]: And for your journey, it looks to me like you went from sort of a creative director and leader to then a content leader into now head of marketing.
Erik [0:04:32]: So you've seen, like a little bit of all of that chain there.
Erik [0:04:37]: And so, yeah, I guess, like, with all of that in mind, how are you looking at this differentiation of buckets?
Erik [0:04:44]: For Vector as, like, running marketing there like, the five percent end market versus the ninety five percent not in market.
Erik [0:04:53]: Just whether it be, like, how you're allocating your resources or time or, like, prioritization, just any way you wanna, like, delineate those two buckets in your focus.
Jess [0:05:03]: Yeah.
Jess [0:05:03]: First of all, there's a great elevator pitch.
Jess [0:05:05]: Thank you.
Jess [0:05:05]: That's fabulous.
Jess [0:05:07]: Yeah.
Jess [0:05:07]: We like to, like, some of the language we use is, like, you're getting ghost by this visitor.
Jess [0:05:12]: You don't even know who they are.
Erik [0:05:14]: And the ghost mascot, you guys...
Jess [0:05:16]: And the goat mask, love little go see.
Jess [0:05:18]: We can talk about about him too.
Jess [0:05:20]: But that ninety five five rule applies to us so much because we're building a category.
Jess [0:05:26]: People don't even know what the category of the thing we're selling is yet.
Jess [0:05:29]: So we have to build awareness and education of that up just as much as we do about Vector itself and the brand and the product.
Jess [0:05:37]: Yep.
Jess [0:05:37]: So I think a really good kind of representation of how we're doing that is actually posted about it this morning is how I'm splitting out my ad budget for next quarter.
Erik [0:05:47]: Mh.
Jess [0:05:48]: So q three Vector has its first real ad budget.
Jess [0:05:51]: Very exciting.
Jess [0:05:53]: I have been granted for some testing and learning, forty five thousand dollars.
Jess [0:05:57]: And that was, like, music to my ears to test and learn and kinda see what works and what doesn't.
Jess [0:06:03]: And I'm using half of that on awareness.
Jess [0:06:05]: Yeah.
Jess [0:06:06]: So I'm taking, you know, the majority of my budget is being spent on just Getting people to know who we are.
Jess [0:06:13]: Mh.
Jess [0:06:13]: That ad creative gonna have that ghost.
Jess [0:06:15]: We're gonna have one very clear line about what we do.
Jess [0:06:18]: We're gonna have some kind of fun place of language because that's the embodiment of our brand and a very clear call to action.
Jess [0:06:25]: Mh.
Jess [0:06:25]: For, you know, sign up for the free product.
Jess [0:06:27]: And what are people actually not it for the free product or not.
Jess [0:06:30]: The goal really is awareness.
Jess [0:06:31]: I just want people in the right job titles and the right industries to see it.
Jess [0:06:36]: Yep.
Jess [0:06:36]: And know what we are.
Jess [0:06:37]: So, yeah.
Jess [0:06:38]: That's where half of it's going.
Jess [0:06:39]: Twenty five percent of it is gonna go to some very focused.
Jess [0:06:42]: Message testing.
Jess [0:06:44]: So we're putting a pretty big bet on kind of one area of our products in the back half of the year, and we're gonna focus very deeply on that in some ad testing.
Jess [0:06:54]: I wanna know exactly like, what's the headline or what's the hooker or?
Jess [0:06:58]: What's the thing?
Erik [0:06:59]: Yep.
Jess [0:06:59]: That resonates most people that gets them interested in this kind of product line that we're we're gonna be talking about.
Erik [0:07:05]: Totally.
Jess [0:07:06]: So I'm gonna test a ton of variations of that and just kinda see what happens because when I go to Q four...
Jess [0:07:11]: I'm hopefully gonna have, you know, double or triple that budget, and I can really double down, triple down on what we learned and what worked.
Jess [0:07:18]: That was a quarter of the budget.
Jess [0:07:20]: And eighth of the budget is going to go to competitive displacement.
Jess [0:07:26]: So, you know, we have some kind of legacy competitors that only give you account level information and we get you that one level deeper.
Jess [0:07:34]: So we wanna be able to compare and contrast ourselves and kinda show why we're different.
Jess [0:07:38]: And people who are already searching for those alternatives or Who, you know, we can do some magic inside of clay to understand who's using those tools.
Jess [0:07:48]: Yeah.
Jess [0:07:48]: Who has come to our site, and we can kind of touch them with a really interesting ad about, like, why we're different or better than those those tools.
Jess [0:07:55]: Yep.
Jess [0:07:56]: So that's a really good one.
Jess [0:07:58]: And then we're also gonna spend another eighth if my math is right, retargeting.
Jess [0:08:03]: Right?
Jess [0:08:03]: So that fifty percent of...
Jess [0:08:05]: That we're spending on awareness.
Jess [0:08:06]: That's gonna help us build up a nice warm retargeting pool.
Jess [0:08:10]: And we're gonna get some some great creative in front of that group as well.
Jess [0:08:13]: So the most engaged folks.
Jess [0:08:15]: We have this really nice explain video.
Jess [0:08:17]: We have some great quotes and social proof.
Jess [0:08:19]: From customers that we can share.
Jess [0:08:21]: We have a we have a lot of just really nice content we can get in front of them.
Jess [0:08:25]: So if that's any indication.
Jess [0:08:27]: Like, brand is really important for us, testing and experimentation is really important for us and making bets.
Erik [0:08:34]: Yeah.
Jess [0:08:35]: Figuring out how we need to learn, like, if those bets are working or not, it's really important to us as well.
Erik [0:08:42]: How is the company grown historically?
Erik [0:08:45]: Has it been like, word mouth, P g, like, whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:08:50]: Yeah, Just maybe for context, because now you're layering on these types of marketing strategies on top, Which will take it to the next level, but I'm curious what was, like, the original go to market.
Jess [0:09:03]: We're, like, ninety nine percent inbound.
Jess [0:09:05]: Yep.
Jess [0:09:06]: Which is great.
Jess [0:09:06]: A lot of it was, you know, early days is, like, the founders networks.
Jess [0:09:11]: Hey.
Jess [0:09:12]: Was come try my thing.
Jess [0:09:14]: Let's see what you think give us feedback.
Jess [0:09:16]: Go And at this point, a lot of it is founder led growth.
Jess [0:09:20]: So we're I'm having them post a lot on Linkedin and helping them build systems to do that.
Jess [0:09:25]: Yep.
Jess [0:09:25]: A lot of it comes actually in hiring the right people.
Jess [0:09:28]: So hiring myself I have a decent sized audience.
Jess [0:09:31]: We hired Alex Ver as our amazing product marketer.
Jess [0:09:35]: She has a great audience of marketers.
Jess [0:09:37]: Yeah.
Jess [0:09:37]: We hired Sarah Mc mara as our Rev ops leads.
Jess [0:09:40]: She has a fabulous audience of, like, Rev ops and and marketing ops.
Jess [0:09:45]: Pros.
Jess [0:09:45]: So all of those folks see that as a signal that someone that they have admired or followed for a long time is putting all of their eggs in this Vector basket, and it lends a lot of credibility.
Jess [0:09:55]: So is an odd thing hiring factual been a really big inbound lever for us.
Jess [0:10:01]: Partnerships is another one.
Jess [0:10:03]: So just partnering with, great names like, user led and common room.
Jess [0:10:10]: Mh.
Jess [0:10:10]: You know, names that people have heard before that kind of live on that intent data level world that are integrating with us and allowing their customers to use Vector as well.
Jess [0:10:22]: So getting just a ton of, like, buzz and noise around that as well.
Jess [0:10:26]: And then when I joined, my background being in content, I knew we could build up a content arm pretty easily quickly.
Jess [0:10:32]: And both myself and Alex, kind of in our different areas of expertise are very good at that.
Jess [0:10:37]: So she's incredible, like, product led stuff.
Jess [0:10:40]: Right, like, playbook.
Erik [0:10:41]: Yep.
Jess [0:10:41]: She has this amazing newsletter that issues built up called ghost to market where every week.
Jess [0:10:45]: It's like, all of the things that the product can do now plus the playbook that apply to that.
Erik [0:10:50]: Nice.
Jess [0:10:50]: I started up a podcast for us.
Jess [0:10:52]: So I'm writing a newsletter based on the learnings from all of those podcast episodes were we have an entire flywheel around just, like, Seo and Ge.
Jess [0:11:00]: Mh.
Jess [0:11:01]: So we have a ton of content that we're we're pumping out all the time.
Jess [0:11:05]: That's still, like, that quality that I think you would expect from, like, Alex and I.
Erik [0:11:10]: Right.
Erik [0:11:10]: Which is a lot for a two person to lot.
Erik [0:11:13]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:15]: That's a really interesting point that actually hasn't been brought up yet on the show before, which is, like, hiring people that have audiences of people who could be prospects or customers
Jess [0:11:28]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:29]: Of the company.
Erik [0:11:29]: And obviously, that speaks more even broadly just to, like, social and Linkedin in general.
Erik [0:11:36]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:36]: So, yeah.
Erik [0:11:37]: I'd love to get into maybe some of the strategies there.
Erik [0:11:40]: So whether that be, like, how you're approaching Linkedin with the founder led side or just overall, but I know you fairly recently started the podcast Yeah.
Erik [0:11:51]: As well.
Erik [0:11:52]: And kind of that video first content strategy and all of the offs offsets that that can power as well.
Erik [0:11:59]: And...
Erik [0:11:59]: Yeah, Just maybe some of the...
Erik [0:12:01]: Some of the things that you're excited about and seeing a lot of potential in and how they're going, your strategy behind it, what results you've seen any of that kinda stuff.
Jess [0:12:10]: Yeah.
Jess [0:12:10]: For sure.
Jess [0:12:11]: So let's start with the social piece because I think that feels like really applicable to so many companies right now.
Jess [0:12:17]: So before I joined, Josh and Nick, our founders, they were both pretty avid Linkedin contributors.
Jess [0:12:23]: And, you know, they would kinda post when the mood struck them and they'd see a a jump in demo bookings or sign ups whenever they would do that.
Jess [0:12:32]: And so when I joined, I was like, well, let's make this really turnkey key for you.
Jess [0:12:36]: Let's make it very easy for you to do this every week, multiple times a week.
Jess [0:12:40]: And let's tie it back to, like, the value props of not only Vector, but what you bring to Vector.
Jess [0:12:46]: Individually.
Jess [0:12:47]: So every week, I sit down with them for thirty minutes.
Jess [0:12:50]: Each, and, we jump on Stream and we record just the back and forth.
Jess [0:12:56]: Right?
Jess [0:12:56]: I...
Jess [0:12:56]: All week and documenting questions that I wanna bring to them, that feel relevant to, you know, the products that we're coming out with are things that are happening in the march it.
Jess [0:13:05]: Right?
Jess [0:13:05]: Things that get brought up in our all hands meetings, and on sales calls, and we just kinda rip for, like, thirty minutes.
Jess [0:13:12]: And I take that both both of their transcripts, and I've trained a couple quad projects on their tone and voice in their top performing Linkedin post and in the in the structure of they're top performing Linkedin post.
Jess [0:13:24]: And so I use that content, the transcripts to, like, craft between three and five posts for them each week.
Jess [0:13:32]: And then I go in into the script and I cut a clip alongside that post.
Erik [0:13:37]: Yeah.
Erik [0:13:37]: Yep.
Jess [0:13:38]: So every week, they have between three and five, you know, really well written posts that either talk about, like, the value of Vector or why they're building Vector the way they are, how they think about being a founder.
Jess [0:13:51]: Right?
Jess [0:13:52]: Like, all of their kind of pillars that we that we touch on.
Jess [0:13:55]: And it's done really, really well so far.
Jess [0:13:58]: I think there's so many founders out there who are really hesitant to do that.
Jess [0:14:03]: They feel like it has to be perfect.
Jess [0:14:04]: There's so many eyes on them.
Jess [0:14:06]: And to a point, I understand that, especially when you're maybe a publicly traded company or you're looking to Ipo, like, the scrutiny gets a lot tighter and tougher, kind of at the top of the mountain there.
Jess [0:14:17]: But we're so far from there right now.
Jess [0:14:20]: Or it's like, I just want them to be themselves.
Jess [0:14:22]: I just want people to understand who they are as people.
Jess [0:14:25]: Yeah.
Jess [0:14:26]: Because it will build trust for the company.
Jess [0:14:28]: And so that to me feels really important.
Jess [0:14:30]: For my own Linkedin, what I didn't wanna do was just start posting about factor every day because I knew I would immediately lose the trust of the people that have started following me who have been following me, you know, since I started three years ago, And I didn't wanna do that, But I knew I could find a way to talk about the value and benefits of Vector in the things that I was doing there.
Erik [0:14:53]: Yes.
Jess [0:14:53]: And so that is my aim for ninety percent of what I do.
Jess [0:14:57]: Every once in a while, there's gonna be a product launch.
Jess [0:14:58]: I'm really proud of and I want people to know about or Yep.
Jess [0:15:01]: There's gonna be a new feature or something that we're doing.
Jess [0:15:04]: That's, like, I and everyone needs to know about this, And I'm sorry that this is a shameless shell, but whatever.
Jess [0:15:08]: But for the most part, you know, it's, like, here's how I crafted our top performing ad or, you know, today's case was, like, here's my ad budget and here's how I'm breaking it out.
Jess [0:15:18]: Yes.
Jess [0:15:18]: Here's why I scrapped four weeks of work on a podcast that just wasn't good enough and and started over.
Jess [0:15:24]: So those are the things that I think people want.
Jess [0:15:26]: To see and hear about.
Erik [0:15:28]: A hundred percent, especially in just the Ai content, Ai content is really good at the how to stuff, like, how to do X y z and giving you sort of advice.
Erik [0:15:40]: Yeah.
Erik [0:15:40]: Whereas what you're describing is, like, how I.
Erik [0:15:43]: Yeah.
Erik [0:15:44]: Did something?
Jess [0:15:45]: That lived.
Erik [0:15:46]: And that is impossible to replicate.
Erik [0:15:47]: And that it's the first person stories, basically.
Erik [0:15:51]: Yep.
Erik [0:15:52]: But, like, the through line of it are things that are applicable to your Ic.
Erik [0:15:56]: Yeah.
Erik [0:15:57]: But it's, like your story of doing something that they may be face as well and, like, how you approach that.
Erik [0:16:04]: So I'm seeing that as a really a really, really valuable angle to take with just social and Linkedin right now.
Erik [0:16:12]: And is there anything else you're seeing linkedin wise or just...
Erik [0:16:16]: Yeah.
Erik [0:16:16]: Social wise, either for for the founders or yourself that's, like right now, today, here's, like, a couple things I've noticed about what's going on with Linkedin effectiveness.
Jess [0:16:27]: You know, what's really funny is this was not planned, but it just kind of organically came out.
Jess [0:16:31]: Josh and I have kind of this...
Jess [0:16:33]: Josh as at our Ceo, one of our founders.
Jess [0:16:35]: You know, I have kind of this, like, playful back and forth, like, these weird personas of, like, the marketing leader and the typical Ceo.
Jess [0:16:41]: Right?
Jess [0:16:42]: From understand marketing.
Jess [0:16:43]: And we left that play out in on Linkedin in comments and and our posts.
Jess [0:16:48]: And People have really gravitate toward that.
Jess [0:16:52]: So for example, I was on vacation last week, I took a week off and my family, we went to turks and c and it was amazing.
Jess [0:16:59]: And I'm literally in a pool in turks and c, and because I have a a sick.
Jess [0:17:05]: I'm on Linkedin for some reason.
Jess [0:17:07]: And I look and there's this post from Josh about how he's planning a coup, and he's gonna take over marketing at Vector?
Jess [0:17:15]: Because I'm gone and what should he do now that I'm not the there.
Jess [0:17:19]: And all these people weighed in, like, cut her budget and double her goals.
Jess [0:17:24]: Right?
Jess [0:17:24]: Tell her the podcast is over.
Jess [0:17:27]: Change all of the copy on the homepage.
Jess [0:17:29]: Right?
Erik [0:17:30]: So good.
Jess [0:17:31]: So the next day, I can't believe this is happening.
Jess [0:17:33]: I look again.
Jess [0:17:34]: He's purchased their I'm sorry jess dot com, and he has put everyone's ideas on that page and put a form on it that says, if you feel this format we'll send you Vector swag.
Jess [0:17:44]: Right?
Jess [0:17:44]: And so this whole thing went on where people were, like, there's some people trying to, like, ruthless defend me like, you hu.
Jess [0:17:50]: Oh, like, don't do this marketers.
Jess [0:17:53]: Right?
Jess [0:17:54]: Like, they know it's all fake
Erik [0:17:55]: and that
Jess [0:17:56]: it's all like mixed.
Jess [0:17:56]: But...
Jess [0:17:57]: And then there's, you know, sales people jumping in, like, yeah.
Jess [0:17:59]: Yeah.
Jess [0:18:00]: This is great.
Jess [0:18:00]: They act like marketing so hard.
Jess [0:18:02]: Right?
Jess [0:18:02]: And so and I came back and kind of played off of that is like, hey.
Jess [0:18:06]: Does anyone know what happened while I was gone?
Jess [0:18:07]: You know?
Jess [0:18:08]: Like, this it feels weird.
Erik [0:18:09]: I feel like something happens.
Jess [0:18:10]: Yeah.
Jess [0:18:10]: Yeah, my budget all gone.
Jess [0:18:12]: My passwords are changed.
Jess [0:18:15]: So it's funny.
Jess [0:18:16]: Like, we didn't really plan for that to happen, but I think, and we'll talk about the podcast a little bit, but the...
Jess [0:18:21]: I think the podcast kinda started that of this, like, back and forth of, you know, just the roles that we play at that.
Jess [0:18:28]: And how, traditionally those two roles marketing leader and Ceo don't always see to eye, and it's really difficult to get buy in and because the power really lies with the Ceo, usually what they say goes.
Jess [0:18:39]: Right?
Jess [0:18:39]: And so we play off of that now and kind of this, like, way.
Jess [0:18:43]: That I think people really have gravitate toward that we didn't really mean to do, but just kind of organically started, and that's been really fun.
Erik [0:18:50]: That is really difficult thing to strategize to do and then make it happen?
Erik [0:18:57]: But it's one of the most powerful things I feel like is this idea of, like, almost like this inside lingo Yeah.
Erik [0:19:05]: Or community, like, you would only know about this dynamic if you were like, a part of our world.
Erik [0:19:11]: Yeah.
Erik [0:19:11]: But it makes the people who are part of that world feel even closer to you all because there's these, like, inside baseball, little things going on.
Erik [0:19:20]: Yeah.
Erik [0:19:21]: So I think that's really, really smart.
Erik [0:19:23]: How do you look at the success measurement of that whole thing?
Erik [0:19:28]: Like, because this is a lot...
Erik [0:19:29]: This is something that I...
Erik [0:19:30]: As you know, like, ton of marketers face.
Erik [0:19:32]: In my opinion, this idea of, like, Will linkedin help us to wind deals, drive new deals, retain current customers.
Erik [0:19:43]: Yeah.
Erik [0:19:44]: Become a referral engine from people who see our content then refer us to people they know who could then sign up, all of those things in my opinion are completely checked off of, like, yes.
Erik [0:19:55]: Yes.
Erik [0:19:56]: Yes.
Erik [0:19:56]: Yes.
Erik [0:19:56]: Yes.
Erik [0:19:57]: Like, it's proven.
Erik [0:19:57]: But not everybody's in the luxury of just being able to kinda, like, know that that is true and just, like, we should do it because of that.
Erik [0:20:05]: So...
Erik [0:20:05]: Yeah.
Erik [0:20:06]: I'm assuming that the Vector founder and founding team has just bought into this philosophically, but do you have any way that you're kinda measuring this of, like, hey, the time we're investing in this every single week we're we're getting on a call.
Erik [0:20:18]: You're helping them craft the post, then they have to maybe go review it and maybe tweak a couple things and then post it, be in the comments, do these playful things back and forth.
Erik [0:20:29]: Like, all that's a big time investment.
Erik [0:20:31]: So how do you how do you all look at that from a measurement standpoint.
Jess [0:20:35]: A couple different ways.
Jess [0:20:36]: One...
Jess [0:20:36]: We have some tracker set up in our call recording system that tells us when people talk about us that they saw us on Linkedin linkedin that they saw...
Jess [0:20:43]: You know, some of this back and forth that they listen to the podcast that they love our brand.
Jess [0:20:48]: They saw the ghosts, like, we have things built in so that we know definitively definitively, people like the brand.
Jess [0:20:55]: Right?
Jess [0:20:55]: And, yes, it's still anecdotal.
Jess [0:20:57]: It's not, like, a number inside of hubspot, but I can drop all of that.
Jess [0:21:01]: Snippets to all of that.
Jess [0:21:02]: Screenshots of all of that into our.
Jess [0:21:03]: We have Vector love chance.
Erik [0:21:05]: Okay.
Jess [0:21:06]: The more that gets put in there, the more comfortable founders and, you know, leadership team become with investing in in that area.
Jess [0:21:14]: Right?
Jess [0:21:15]: People again won't know about you if their peers don't talk about you.
Erik [0:21:20]: Yep.
Jess [0:21:21]: That is a really, really important piece of of what we're doing.
Jess [0:21:24]: Now at the same time, I do have very very ambitious goals.
Jess [0:21:28]: Built into Hubspot that I do track around, you know, qualified demos booked and I'm looking to grow, like, branded and un branded search traffic, and I'm looking to grow things like, make sure that we're showing up in all of the L the right way.
Jess [0:21:46]: Those are track things inside of Hubspot, but I'm still watching them because they're really important.
Jess [0:21:53]: And, like you say, like, in the year of our lord twenty twenty five Like, Yeah.
Jess [0:21:58]: That might...
Jess [0:21:59]: The the Ge thing might be the most important right now.
Jess [0:22:02]: And so those are the kinds of things I'm I'm watching.
Jess [0:22:05]: I don't necessarily have a benchmark for them or, you know, something that I can put on a dashboard, but, I'm watching them, and I'm understanding what we need to do to to fix them if they're not saying what we want them to say.
Erik [0:22:18]: Totally.
Erik [0:22:18]: Yeah.
Erik [0:22:19]: Because it's, like, this whole thing, usually will result in not someone clicking something from Linkedin to the website in a way that you can track.
Erik [0:22:29]: Usually, it's just they see your content over months on Linkedin or follow the podcast.
Erik [0:22:35]: Or what have you.
Erik [0:22:36]: And then they do the branded search.
Erik [0:22:39]: Yes.
Erik [0:22:39]: In Google, or they just go direct.
Erik [0:22:41]: They go...
Erik [0:22:42]: They just assume it's Vector dot com.
Erik [0:22:44]: Maybe it's not, but they'll they'll search around and and they'll finally get it but then that can sometimes be tough to know with the branded search.
Erik [0:22:52]: Was this Linkedin?
Erik [0:22:54]: Yeah.
Erik [0:22:54]: Was this podcast?
Erik [0:22:55]: So it's, like, to me, and I'm curious what you think about it?
Erik [0:22:59]: I almost look at it, like, all of those channels work.
Erik [0:23:03]: Youtube works, podcast works, Linkedin works, newsletter works, webinars work.
Erik [0:23:08]: All of it works, how much bandwidth do we have to do any number of them correctly right now.
Erik [0:23:15]: And then Are we looking for in platform directional success.
Erik [0:23:20]: Like, Linkedin engagements going up.
Erik [0:23:22]: Impressions are going up.
Erik [0:23:23]: Comments are going up?
Erik [0:23:24]: Okay.
Erik [0:23:24]: Cool.
Erik [0:23:24]: Linkedin, we are getting traction here in the platform?
Erik [0:23:28]: We know we're going in the right direction.
Erik [0:23:31]: And then we know the byproduct of that will likely be Dms on Linkedin or branded search.
Erik [0:23:37]: So then all those things feed to this almost just inbound.
Jess [0:23:42]: Mh.
Erik [0:23:43]: And then you just have to know, that's all because of this entire ecosystem.
Erik [0:23:47]: Yeah.
Erik [0:23:48]: It's not like, well we're gonna test Linkedin for three months to see if it works.
Erik [0:23:52]: Yeah.
Erik [0:23:53]: And then if we don't get something that passes through to a book demo that we can see was the Ut from Linkedin.
Erik [0:24:00]: Then we're gonna cut Linkedin.
Erik [0:24:01]: And so I just almost look at it, like, it all works.
Erik [0:24:05]: And, like, we should just measure it as one big bucket together.
Erik [0:24:09]: But just make sure that we are executing correctly in that particular channel,
Jess [0:24:14]: Yeah.
Jess [0:24:14]: Absolutely.
Jess [0:24:15]: We...
Jess [0:24:15]: We just had a...
Jess [0:24:17]: I just saw Slack yesterday, Sarah Rob ops lead.
Jess [0:24:20]: We actually have, like, a small P g motion as well.
Jess [0:24:24]: So we have, like, a, plus plan upgrade that you can do right inside of the app from the free version.
Jess [0:24:29]: And she saw that someone who had received and opened our last three emails, all of which are, like, kind of varied purposes.
Jess [0:24:37]: Right?
Jess [0:24:37]: One's very branded about the podcast one's very product led.
Jess [0:24:41]: And then one happened to be kind of a free to paid nurture.
Jess [0:24:45]: And she...
Jess [0:24:46]: This person had opened every single one of them and had spent time in each of them and then upgraded to the plus.
Jess [0:24:51]: Right?
Jess [0:24:52]: Who knows which one of those?
Jess [0:24:54]: Exactly Feel good about continuing on with us as a brand and wanting to make that investment with us.
Jess [0:25:00]: Yeah.
Jess [0:25:01]: It's it's like a combination of all three.
Jess [0:25:02]: Each one made her feel a little bit better, and then there just happened to be the one that was like, okay.
Jess [0:25:07]: Alright.
Jess [0:25:07]: I'm gonna do this.
Jess [0:25:08]: I'm do this.
Jess [0:25:08]: Right?
Jess [0:25:09]: So I totally me agree.
Jess [0:25:10]: It's, like a really good mix.
Jess [0:25:12]: You you have to have...
Jess [0:25:13]: You...
Jess [0:25:14]: Again, you can't just put all eggs in one basket.
Jess [0:25:16]: It's never going.
Jess [0:25:17]: I mean, I guess it could work.
Jess [0:25:19]: It's just gonna be a really big s.
Jess [0:25:20]: But, yeah, All of it kinda works together to, like, create that like, good feeling of...
Jess [0:25:26]: Man, these guys are everywhere.
Jess [0:25:28]: And they're saying things that resonate with me that are valuable that, like, I can turn around and use tomorrow, and they make me look really good because they're teaching me something new, and they're cool.
Jess [0:25:38]: So, like, yeah.
Jess [0:25:39]: I'm cry.
Jess [0:25:39]: Right?
Jess [0:25:40]: So...
Erik [0:25:41]: I just like them.
Erik [0:25:41]: I like almost like them.
Erik [0:25:43]: Right?
Erik [0:25:43]: Yeah.
Jess [0:25:44]: Yes.
Jess [0:25:44]: I think it just comes down to that.
Jess [0:25:45]: I just like them.
Jess [0:25:46]: Yeah Yeah.
Erik [0:25:48]: We underestimate that.
Erik [0:25:49]: We can't quantify it.
Erik [0:25:50]: But...
Erik [0:25:51]: Yeah.
Erik [0:25:51]: And is very much a thing.
Erik [0:25:53]: It's, like, for example, there's a lot of podcast podcasts.
Erik [0:25:56]: There's ton of marketing podcast podcasts.
Erik [0:25:58]: There's a ton of sales podcast.
Erik [0:25:59]: There's a ton of business podcast.
Erik [0:26:00]: You can kinda get your where you wanna learn from in a ton of different places.
Erik [0:26:06]: And so, a lot of times it just comes down to.
Erik [0:26:09]: I just prefer this host or I just, like...
Erik [0:26:11]: Yes.
Erik [0:26:11]: This person feels like a friend of me or more like my personality or just whatever.
Jess [0:26:16]: I like how the way they describe things that works for my brain.
Erik [0:26:20]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:20]: I like the how they teach.
Erik [0:26:21]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:22]: Exactly.
Erik [0:26:22]: And actually, that kind of perfectly segue into the podcast.
Erik [0:26:26]: Are you, like, five, six episodes in or...
Jess [0:26:31]: We're we're three episodes in an episode Okay.
Jess [0:26:32]: Work comes out next week.
Erik [0:26:34]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:34]: Okay.
Erik [0:26:34]: Cool.
Erik [0:26:34]: So, yeah, you recently launched it?
Erik [0:26:36]: Yep.
Erik [0:26:36]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:37]: What was the thinking behind it?
Erik [0:26:38]: Because, like, marketing team of two?
Erik [0:26:40]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:41]: Like, how we mentioned we have to kinda prioritize what things we wanna work on and so you put the podcast up there.
Erik [0:26:46]: Yep.
Erik [0:26:47]: So I'm curious.
Erik [0:26:47]: Yeah.
Erik [0:26:48]: What what was the thinking behind that?
Erik [0:26:50]: How are you feeling about it?
Erik [0:26:51]: And, yeah, anything you can share about the strategy there?
Jess [0:26:54]: Yeah.
Jess [0:26:54]: Well, I knew very early on that I wanted to implement a video first strategy.
Jess [0:26:59]: And I knew that because our audience of mark just really appreciates video, they engage with it, They save them.
Jess [0:27:09]: They get a lot out of them.
Jess [0:27:10]: And my skill set, I know that I'd be able to do a lot with, you know, eight episodes of something.
Jess [0:27:17]: Yep.
Jess [0:27:18]: That I'd be able to stretch that out and create a ton of assets and just great content that people would enjoy and and find interesting and valuable.
Jess [0:27:25]: But, you know, knowing Vector is a brand and how different we are and unique and kind of quirky or, you know, little un hinge we are, like, I knew it couldn't be just a typical...
Jess [0:27:34]: I don't know.
Jess [0:27:35]: I I knew it needed to be different.
Jess [0:27:37]: And that to me meant, like, let's do the opposite of everything.
Jess [0:27:41]: Let's...
Erik [0:27:43]: Yes.
Jess [0:27:43]: Go on...
Jess [0:27:43]: Let's do something a little weird.
Jess [0:27:46]: Let's not talk about a product at all.
Jess [0:27:49]: Yeah.
Jess [0:27:50]: And of course, that's a little scary to a Ceo who's like, you know, but but but where's is my, you know, how gonna generate anything.
Jess [0:27:57]: Right?
Jess [0:27:57]: We had an original idea that kinda saved the long story on it.
Jess [0:28:03]: But essentially, every time we went to go outline an episode of it, we kept falling back into the trap of, like, we kept talking about the product, and I have, like, pause.
Jess [0:28:13]: And I'd be like, no.
Jess [0:28:13]: This isn't what where I'll come back to it.
Jess [0:28:15]: And the fact that I kept kind of putting it off.
Jess [0:28:18]: Yeah.
Jess [0:28:18]: And the fact that every time I tried to do it, it felt like a a bit of an info commercial.
Jess [0:28:23]: Made me kind of stop and think, like, the...
Jess [0:28:26]: This isn't the right show.
Jess [0:28:27]: Like, I think we're we're just barking up the wrong tree here.
Jess [0:28:29]: Like the whole thing is wrong, and that's why we can't.
Jess [0:28:31]: We can't course correct In an episode if the entire premise of the show is wrong.
Jess [0:28:35]: Right.
Jess [0:28:36]: And so I went to Josh, and this was, you know, I've been working on this now and talking to him about it for weeks at that point.
Jess [0:28:42]: And I said, hey.
Jess [0:28:42]: I think we have to scrap this idea, and he was like, okay.
Jess [0:28:46]: I mean, we left for Florida to film this thing in like, eight days.
Jess [0:28:49]: And I was like, so I think you need to give me twenty four hours, and I will come back to you tomorrow with, like, a great idea that's just complete one eighty of this, and he was like, okay.
Jess [0:29:00]: So that was a really crazy twenty four hours, but that was...
Jess [0:29:03]: You know, when you're back is against a wall like that sometimes is where he really come up with the best stuff.
Jess [0:29:08]: And kind of the Eureka moments for me coming to this idea of the show, which is called, this meeting could have been a podcast, was...
Jess [0:29:16]: I texted a friend of mine and I said, if you could listen to a marketing leader and a Ceo talk, what would you wanna hear them talk about.
Jess [0:29:24]: And the stuff that she fed back to me was like, well, that sounds like me and Josh is one on ones, which are actually really fun and interesting, and we we learn a lot from each other and we're kinda weird together, so we can, like, we laugh about weird stuff and we've crazy jokes and I was like, they actually make people would probably really wanna hear that.
Jess [0:29:43]: Like, it could be, like, we're dropping them in on our one on ones.
Jess [0:29:46]: Kinda And when I brought that to him, he was like, yes.
Jess [0:29:50]: The this is it.
Jess [0:29:51]: Right?
Jess [0:29:51]: And and we don't have to talk about the products at all in that way.
Jess [0:29:53]: We can talk about the things that were...
Jess [0:29:55]: The programs that we're trying to get off the ground and Yeah.
Jess [0:29:58]: The decisions we have to make together, the things that I try to sell in that you're a hesitant to to buy into...
Jess [0:30:04]: And I think what really solidified it was when I came up with the the episode titles.
Jess [0:30:08]: So I didn't mean for them to be this...
Jess [0:30:12]: To be like this originally.
Jess [0:30:14]: I just started writing down ideas of what we could talk about.
Jess [0:30:17]: And so the first one was, like, Just wants to bring on an agency.
Jess [0:30:19]: And the second one was, Josh goes to a conference and comes back with a bunch of crazy ideas.
Jess [0:30:25]: And The next one was Just wants to start a podcast.
Jess [0:30:28]: And the one after that was Josh buys a bunch of swag without any strategy behind it.
Jess [0:30:33]: And all a Sunday, I was like, these feel like Seinfeld or, like, friends episode subtitles.
Jess [0:30:38]: And so we we just stuck with those because those are the things that, like, people wanna hear about, like, well, did she get to bring on an agency.
Jess [0:30:46]: Did he...
Jess [0:30:47]: Would it happen with all that swag.
Jess [0:30:48]: Right?
Jess [0:30:48]: And these are the things that people have to deal with between their marketing leader and their Ceo?
Erik [0:30:53]: Is exactly
Jess [0:30:54]: Every day.
Jess [0:30:54]: So that's where we landed, and it's been a ton of fun.
Jess [0:30:56]: We shot them all at once Mh On location, we shot eight episodes over two days, and we've been seating them out.
Jess [0:31:03]: We have sixteen weeks of of content, and and it's going well so far.
Jess [0:31:08]: We're getting a ton of great feedback, and we're being able to use it across all different channels in a lot of different ways.
Jess [0:31:14]: And, yeah, it's going great.
Jess [0:31:15]: I think I think we have enough ammo to say we could do a season too.
Erik [0:31:20]: Nice.
Erik [0:31:20]: I love the angle of this.
Erik [0:31:23]: Couple reasons.
Erik [0:31:24]: One.
Erik [0:31:25]: It's because this is effectively, like, a c hosted shell essentially.
Erik [0:31:29]: Yeah.
Erik [0:31:29]: I think that's a really strong position to be in for a show because the rapport that you and Josh have with each other
Jess [0:31:40]: Yeah.
Erik [0:31:40]: I think, like, brings the best content probably out.
Erik [0:31:43]: And then every episode, you're doing that over different topics.
Erik [0:31:47]: And so people again, get to come into your all's world and be a part of, like, this inside, community essentially between Youtube rather than, like, a steady stream of different guests every episode, which is what I'm doing.
Erik [0:32:02]: Like, I don't think there's right or wrong.
Erik [0:32:03]: No.
Erik [0:32:04]: Yeah.
Erik [0:32:04]: I love that idea of, like, a strong c hosted show essentially.
Erik [0:32:09]: Yeah.
Erik [0:32:10]: And then taking everything...
Erik [0:32:12]: The concept of this is something that I think every founder and Ceo has experience with of, like, I need to talk to my marketing leader and my marketing team, And then the marketing leader has that experience as as well of, I need to talk to the Ceo and the founder and, like, make decisions together.
Jess [0:32:30]: Yeah.
Erik [0:32:31]: And I don't know if I can think of a time where there's been, like, here's what that looks like that you can watch and listen to.
Jess [0:32:39]: Yeah.
Erik [0:32:40]: And so I think that's...
Erik [0:32:40]: Again, it's, like, how I content versus how you should do content.
Erik [0:32:45]: Yeah.
Erik [0:32:45]: You're literally opening it up.
Erik [0:32:47]: And mean, like, this is what it looks like.
Jess [0:32:49]: Yes.
Jess [0:32:49]: It's building in public to the extreme.
Jess [0:32:51]: Right?
Jess [0:32:51]: Like, and that's what I loved about it too that there's no how to book on selling something in or telling your Ceo, I don't think that's a good idea or asking for more budget.
Erik [0:33:08]: Yeah.
Jess [0:33:08]: And I thought it'd be really interesting just to show people are back and forth and how we came to those decisions together and, like, what I needed to tell him to feel comfortable with something.
Jess [0:33:17]: And what he needed to tell me about the things he's hearing from the board and why he's going in this direction now.
Erik [0:33:25]: Yep.
Jess [0:33:25]: And I think because we're able to do that on screen and in a really fun way it helps people...
Jess [0:33:32]: Okay.
Jess [0:33:33]: The...
Jess [0:33:33]: Okay.
Jess [0:33:34]: Now I don't understand what I need to do to get my Ceo to buy into something, hopefully.
Jess [0:33:39]: Right?
Jess [0:33:40]: I'm a little bit better equipped to go have that conversation with that next week.
Jess [0:33:44]: Again, I think that was our that was our ultimate goals.
Jess [0:33:47]: Like, just let's help marketers.
Jess [0:33:49]: Like, let's really help them and who cares if any of it is about the product.
Jess [0:33:53]: Every once in a while, we can bring it up because we do use it internally to help we know us do our jobs.
Jess [0:33:58]: And so we bring it up where it makes sense, but for the most part, it's, like, here's how I sold this thing in, or here's what happened when Josh went rogue, and and I had to, like, Core corral him back in, which happens all the time, you know, in the marketer or Ceo relationship.
Jess [0:34:14]: So I think it just helps people...
Jess [0:34:16]: Yeah, be better equipped to, like, do their job in the soft skills that you need to manage up.
Erik [0:34:23]: It's a pretty competitive space like the space of...
Erik [0:34:26]: Podcast or video content for marketing content.
Erik [0:34:31]: Yeah.
Erik [0:34:32]: Founders, things like that.
Erik [0:34:34]: And so this idea of differentiation, which is where you ultimately landed, it sounds like, Yeah.
Erik [0:34:42]: And I think this is a very unique format that you came up with because I don't believe in my opinion, no matter how quote unquote competitive a category is.
Erik [0:34:52]: I still think you can have a ton of success in it.
Erik [0:34:55]: Like, let's say there's a lot of pod...
Erik [0:34:57]: A marketing podcast.
Erik [0:34:58]: You can still...
Erik [0:34:59]: Like, if we look at the last twelve or twenty four months, some of the most successful current marketing podcast out there, were started within the last twelve to twenty four months.
Erik [0:35:09]: Yeah.
Erik [0:35:09]: There's always room, but the more competitive it is the higher the differentiation needs to be.
Erik [0:35:15]: Yeah.
Erik [0:35:15]: And so you can differentiate a lot of ways, you know, who it's for who it's by, how it's told, the...
Erik [0:35:22]: Format where you publish it.
Erik [0:35:24]: Like, all these different ways you can differentiate.
Erik [0:35:26]: But you...
Erik [0:35:26]: Sounds like, yeah.
Erik [0:35:28]: You went through about a, like, a few weeks or a month of, like, an edge panic, you know, we gotta fix this.
Erik [0:35:33]: I just think that's a key concept of, like, the differentiation component?
Erik [0:35:39]: Yeah.
Erik [0:35:39]: Because usually the people that find the formats or, like these unlocks that drive a lot of results.
Erik [0:35:48]: Very often are the people who are not following like, the best practice.
Erik [0:35:54]: Yeah.
Erik [0:35:55]: That everybody else has been doing.
Erik [0:35:56]: Yeah.
Erik [0:35:57]: And so it's a double sword because it's scary because it's, like, I literally don't know if to how this gonna play out.
Jess [0:36:02]: Right.
Erik [0:36:03]: But you put yourself in a position to have, I believe true outlier success.
Erik [0:36:08]: Because of that.
Erik [0:36:10]: Yeah.
Erik [0:36:11]: So same question I asked on on Linkedin, but not for the podcast.
Erik [0:36:15]: How do you look at what would mean this podcast is is successful to you.
Erik [0:36:21]: Whether that's, like...
Erik [0:36:22]: Here's the North star And it doesn't have to be a metric.
Erik [0:36:25]: It could be, like, I wanted something to help power forty percent of our content.
Erik [0:36:30]: Yeah.
Erik [0:36:31]: Across all the channels to make people see our face here our ideas, build a connection with us.
Erik [0:36:37]: But, yeah, anyways, you're looking at that in general.
Jess [0:36:41]: I love the lesson thing you just said because I think that was the initial goal of this, and I don't think I ever wrote it down like that, But it was like, I want it to be one half of our content power.
Jess [0:36:52]: Right?
Jess [0:36:52]: Like our content fuel.
Jess [0:36:53]: The other half being everything that Alex is doing kind of on the product side.
Erik [0:36:58]: Exactly.
Jess [0:36:58]: And so I think that was a big goal.
Jess [0:37:00]: So, like, check.
Jess [0:37:01]: We have done that because we're we're posting in Youtube.
Jess [0:37:04]: Yep.
Jess [0:37:05]: We're on all the major kind of podcast platforms Spotify now allows you, like, add video and clips.
Jess [0:37:11]: Yep.
Jess [0:37:11]: Shorts on Youtube has been a major source of discover ability for us.
Jess [0:37:15]: Incredible growth there, which is amazing.
Jess [0:37:17]: Nothing I'd ever played around with before.
Jess [0:37:20]: So that's been really fun.
Jess [0:37:21]: It powers my social and Josh, social, Some of Vector social, which, like, at this point is a total abyss no one sees anyway.
Jess [0:37:30]: But whatever Blinks to everyone's at all Can throw us something there, make it look like we're still...
Erik [0:37:34]: Exactly.
Erik [0:37:34]: Somebody...
Erik [0:37:35]: If somebody clicks over from your profile, then there's
Jess [0:37:38]: stuff there.
Jess [0:37:38]: Yeah.
Jess [0:37:39]: Exactly.
Jess [0:37:39]: Yep.
Jess [0:37:40]: My newsletter actually has been...
Jess [0:37:43]: I think the number one source of just of feedback.
Jess [0:37:47]: From people.
Jess [0:37:48]: So typically, what I'll do is I'll I'll...
Jess [0:37:50]: Every other week so the week that the podcast doesn't come out.
Jess [0:37:53]: Yeah.
Jess [0:37:54]: You know, that following week that the podcast comes out.
Jess [0:37:56]: I'll send a newsletter out about one thing we talked about.
Jess [0:38:00]: In the podcast.
Jess [0:38:01]: Yeah.
Jess [0:38:02]: So this past week, it was about, metric that I'm using on the podcast called the repurposing multiplier.
Jess [0:38:09]: And this is super meta because I'm gonna talk about the newsletter that talked about the repurposing multiplier.
Jess [0:38:14]: I'm also gonna tell you about the repurposing multiplier.
Jess [0:38:17]: As a metric that I use to measure the podcast.
Jess [0:38:20]: So, like, mind blown.
Erik [0:38:22]: And we're in a simulation right now.
Jess [0:38:24]: So we're...
Jess [0:38:24]: Ninety percent sure, this call as measure.
Jess [0:38:27]: So essentially, It went through kind of this whole thing about, like, you know, Josh wants me to measure the podcast, you know, typical Ceo.
Jess [0:38:34]: But, like, really, how am I going to do that.
Jess [0:38:37]: And so a couple ways are...
Jess [0:38:38]: I, again, I have a tracker inside of our call recording software that tells me whenever whenever someone brings it up.
Jess [0:38:44]: We're starting to see it come up more and more and more, which is really exciting.
Erik [0:38:48]: Love it.
Jess [0:38:49]: I obviously, am looking at social mentions.
Jess [0:38:51]: So we're already starting to pop up on some of those, like, this is my new favorite podcast lists.
Jess [0:38:56]: Which is really exciting as well, getting a ton of replies on the newsletter of, like, awesome episode or just, like, great breakdown in the newsletter here loved it.
Jess [0:39:05]: But the hard number that I actually remember measure.
Jess [0:39:08]: Is called the repurposing multiplayer.
Jess [0:39:10]: It's, like, a metric I made up.
Jess [0:39:12]: It's back of the napkin math.
Jess [0:39:14]: It's manual.
Jess [0:39:15]: But I think it's one of the best ways to show the power of that very first goal you mentioned, which is I need it to drive half of my content fuel, basically.
Jess [0:39:24]: What I do is I take a look at the difference between the views and consumption of the full episode.
Jess [0:39:33]: Yeah.
Jess [0:39:34]: And the views and consumption of the repurposed pieces.
Erik [0:39:38]: Of the episode.
Erik [0:39:38]: Yep.
Jess [0:39:39]: So, like, to break that down, that would be, like, downloads of the episode on all the podcast platforms and views of the full episode on Youtube.
Jess [0:39:47]: Yep.
Jess [0:39:48]: Versus my and Josh posts that include video clips.
Erik [0:39:53]: Yep.
Jess [0:39:53]: The newsletter opens, the, Youtube shorts, the Spotify clip views, anything that is just a piece of that larger video, like, how many times did...
Jess [0:40:06]: Or how many times did people see that?
Jess [0:40:08]: And then what's the difference between those two?
Jess [0:40:10]: Yeah.
Jess [0:40:10]: For instance, the first episode of, this meeting could have been a podcast?
Jess [0:40:15]: Had a forty six x.
Jess [0:40:17]: Repurposing multiplayer.
Jess [0:40:19]: Meaning, forty six times more people saw the repurposed content than the actual full video.
Jess [0:40:26]: And incredible.
Jess [0:40:27]: Something that I find really fascinating.
Jess [0:40:30]: I actually, Devin Reed told me this.
Jess [0:40:33]: I I had been chatting with him earlier this year, and I said, hey, you know, you've been on Youtube for a while now Like, what's the biggest learning you've taken away.
Jess [0:40:40]: And this was so interesting to me.
Jess [0:40:42]: He said, I have people have come up to me and say, they love your show so much I watch it all the time and he'll say, awesome.
Jess [0:40:48]: What episode is your favorite and he'll go, they'll say, I actually don't know.
Jess [0:40:52]: I've seen a few clips maybe maybe I had a watched whole episode actually.
Jess [0:40:55]: And so in seeing a clip they deem themselves a fan of the show, and you know they have watched the show.
Erik [0:41:03]: Yes.
Jess [0:41:03]: And I thought that was fascinating, and made me feel, you know, I already felt good about the amount that people were watching those repurposed pieces of content, but made me feel even better because they're actually attributing that to more loyalty than I thought they ever would.
Jess [0:41:18]: Right.
Jess [0:41:19]: And that is...
Jess [0:41:20]: That's everything.
Jess [0:41:20]: That's huge right there.
Jess [0:41:21]: So I I think, you know, don't just look at that podcast that video that webinar that rapport as just the thing that you created, it is a mechanism for getting exponentially more people into your universe and liking you.
Jess [0:41:36]: Again, right?
Jess [0:41:37]: Going back to the idea of, like, I just like them.
Jess [0:41:39]: That's what you want.
Erik [0:41:41]: That is so good.
Erik [0:41:42]: I love this.
Erik [0:41:43]: Yeah.
Erik [0:41:44]: This concept of, like, I almost sometimes call it, like, your shadow subscribers, basically.
Erik [0:41:50]: Which is, like, these are people who you won't see as a subscriber on Youtube or a subscriber to the show in Apple or Spotify or whatever, but they are following the show.
Erik [0:42:03]: Yeah.
Erik [0:42:04]: Through all the repurposed material, and they're enjoying it.
Erik [0:42:08]: And they actually know it's from the show or some of the excerpts from the show or what have you.
Erik [0:42:13]: But for whatever reason, they just don't want to consume the full length thing or or what have you.
Erik [0:42:19]: Like, people have different content preferences.
Erik [0:42:20]: Yep.
Erik [0:42:22]: And so This other idea of, like, you are giving people the full...
Erik [0:42:27]: Giving people the menu of formats that you are.
Erik [0:42:30]: Yeah.
Erik [0:42:31]: Of the show is actually allowing you to capture the full audience Tam.
Erik [0:42:37]: That you want to capture.
Erik [0:42:38]: Because if we're like, well, we're gonna post the full length on Youtube and the full length on Spotify.
Erik [0:42:45]: What about all the people who don't like to consume content that way that you're missing out on?
Erik [0:42:51]: Yeah.
Erik [0:42:52]: So this way, we can not only get that forty six x, like, repurposing, you know, multiple is, like, insane.
Erik [0:43:00]: Like, that shows the value right there, but what that means is, all the people who could be customers, like, that whole Tam we could also look at them as our audience tam.
Erik [0:43:09]: Like, people we want to be consuming our content.
Erik [0:43:11]: And so that is forty six x on getting touch points.
Erik [0:43:16]: Yeah.
Erik [0:43:16]: From this single piece of content with that entire audience Tam because people consume in different ways.
Erik [0:43:22]: Yep.
Erik [0:43:23]: And I just think that's so powerful of an idea?
Erik [0:43:27]: And so for teams out there, do you have any other recommendations or strategies about just how because a lot of this is about, I think it comes down to, like, sustainability.
Erik [0:43:40]: Yeah.
Erik [0:43:42]: Having to of a vision and a point of view on what the content should be, and then being able to execute it sustainably.
Erik [0:43:49]: Yeah.
Erik [0:43:49]: Because it is tough there is a graveyard of, like, podcasts out there, Youtube channels out there and stuff like that.
Erik [0:43:57]: So, yeah, what's your...
Erik [0:43:58]: Sounds like you're taking it in series based format from the start, which I think is smart.
Erik [0:44:02]: Yep.
Erik [0:44:02]: Are there any other strategies you are applying and thinking about, like, how we can do this sustainably ongoing.
Jess [0:44:10]: Yeah.
Jess [0:44:10]: I think a big part of it is just the the planning going into it.
Jess [0:44:14]: So going into this show, I knew, you know, we had kind of each episode outlined.
Jess [0:44:20]: Mh.
Jess [0:44:20]: And I knew there'd be good sound bites in there.
Jess [0:44:22]: Like, what's the point of a show that doesn't have good sound bites.
Jess [0:44:25]: Right?
Jess [0:44:26]: So I knew there'd be stuff to clip.
Jess [0:44:27]: But I also wanted stuff that was, like, the obvious stuff I could clip.
Jess [0:44:32]: So I wanted to build in, like, some mini segments.
Erik [0:44:36]: Mh.
Jess [0:44:36]: That, like, every episode I could pull that and know that I would get some engagement out of it, some interest.
Jess [0:44:41]: So a couple examples of this, each episode always starts with a funny skit from me and Josh, kind of recreating the moment that, like, kicked off whatever is happening in that episode.
Jess [0:44:53]: Right?
Jess [0:44:53]: So in this new episode that comes out next week, it starts and Josh, and holding, like, all of this swag and his zara he's right and like, what I got there?
Jess [0:45:01]: Josh?
Jess [0:45:02]: You know?
Jess [0:45:02]: He's like, I just bought all these legos.
Jess [0:45:05]: Like, do you like them?
Jess [0:45:06]: Like, what are we gonna do with them?
Jess [0:45:08]: You know, so that's something every single episode I can click, and I can just set that up as the premise for the show and give people laugh, and people be like, oh, I gotta see how this plays out.
Jess [0:45:18]: The other mini segment we built in was something we call positive affirmations.
Jess [0:45:22]: And it's this really awkward moment where Josh and I stare into the camera, and we each deliver, like, a almost like a chuck norris style, positive affirmation for marketers.
Jess [0:45:33]: And they're so silly and it literally...
Jess [0:45:36]: I think it's maybe thirty seconds to forty five seconds of each episode, but it was, like, I wanted something in there to kind of almost like the commercial moment.
Jess [0:45:44]: Right?
Jess [0:45:44]: We're, like, it kind of ends the serious topic conversation.
Jess [0:45:47]: There's a moment of B, and then we continue on, but I can clip that and have it be, like, this silly thing that I post to be, like, here's your moment of, you know, positive affirmation.
Erik [0:45:57]: Yes.
Jess [0:45:58]: So I think if you can build besides just the really good smart sound bites that you know you're gonna capture anyway.
Jess [0:46:03]: If you can build moments into your show.
Erik [0:46:06]: Yeah.
Jess [0:46:07]: Before you begin, that you're like, oh, automatically, I know I'm gonna be able to...
Jess [0:46:10]: Take that and, like, get people interested in this show or be like, oh, they're doing something really different here.
Erik [0:46:16]: Totally.
Jess [0:46:16]: That is a really nice easy way to, like, scale the the repurposing for sure.
Erik [0:46:22]: Very good tactical advice there and similar with a Youtube first approach example, which is, like, before you record the video, what is the title and thumbnail of this video.
Erik [0:46:33]: Yeah For example, like, that mindset for for Youtube, allows for the success to be much higher usually?
Erik [0:46:40]: No.
Erik [0:46:40]: And you did this with the with your show, which is you mapped out those episodes.
Erik [0:46:45]: So you didn't record the episodes and then decide what the title is and, like, Right wherever we ended up with this episode is, like, that's what the topic was gonna be about.
Erik [0:46:57]: But, like, mapped it out very intentionally.
Erik [0:46:59]: Yeah.
Erik [0:47:00]: So, awesome.
Erik [0:47:01]: Well, I know we could talk for a very long time.
Erik [0:47:03]: But Maybe we just end with...
Erik [0:47:06]: Anything else we haven't covered that you are either excited about inspired about seeing as, like, a little trend happening that you're keeping your eye on just for content, like, b to b content in general right now.
Erik [0:47:18]: Anything...
Erik [0:47:19]: Yeah.
Erik [0:47:20]: Come to mind?
Jess [0:47:22]: Two things.
Jess [0:47:22]: One is kind of going back to the idea, we talked about almost at the top of the show, which was like, hiring for growth.
Jess [0:47:30]: Yeah.
Jess [0:47:31]: In terms of, like, who you bring on to your team and being very selective about who that is and do they have an audience?
Jess [0:47:36]: And allowing those folks to continue what they do best in their social platforms.
Jess [0:47:42]: But also, like, both, Alex and I have a newsletter now.
Jess [0:47:46]: At Vector and they're very different purposes.
Jess [0:47:49]: But people really like hearing from us.
Jess [0:47:52]: Right?
Jess [0:47:53]: They reply back and they're like, oh, this is great.
Jess [0:47:56]: Thank you.
Jess [0:47:56]: This is what I needed to hear today or I can't wait to try out that feature.
Jess [0:47:59]: Right?
Jess [0:48:00]: So I think part of it is, like, if you're hiring people who people already know or they have a an audience built up, also let them use your personality in in the marketing like, in their touch points to customers and prospects because that goes a long way.
Jess [0:48:15]: So I think that's one.
Jess [0:48:17]: And second, this may come out of, like, left field, but mascot, B b mascot.
Jess [0:48:22]: I
Erik [0:48:23]: think Love.
Jess [0:48:24]: I think we're gonna see more of that moving forward.
Jess [0:48:27]: Like, b has had that down.
Jess [0:48:29]: For a hundred plus years now.
Jess [0:48:31]: Right?
Erik [0:48:32]: Yep.
Jess [0:48:33]: I actually used to write, like, video scripts for snap Crackle and Pop, and I used to tweet as Tony the Tiger for a while.
Erik [0:48:40]: They work...
Jess [0:48:40]: I work on Kellogg.
Jess [0:48:41]: So I know me.
Jess [0:48:42]: I know we...
Erik [0:48:43]: A mascot game.
Jess [0:48:44]: Yeah.
Jess [0:48:44]: Yeah.
Jess [0:48:45]: And we have a mascot a Vector.
Jess [0:48:47]: It's the ghost.
Jess [0:48:47]: Right?
Jess [0:48:48]: And he's really cute and he is kind of a shorthand for, like, what we do, which is d minimize your traffic.
Jess [0:48:53]: Kind of show who showing intent.
Jess [0:48:55]: And he goes a really long way to help.
Jess [0:48:58]: People understand what it is they're getting from Vector.
Jess [0:49:01]: Yeah.
Jess [0:49:01]: I think we're gonna start seeing more B b companies do that because it's a really nice little shortcut for complexity if you have the right mascot, kind of telegraph what it is your product does.
Erik [0:49:14]: Being memorable.
Erik [0:49:15]: Essentially like, Yeah.
Erik [0:49:16]: I I feel like brand marketing is making a comeback right now.
Erik [0:49:20]: And a big part of that is somebody remembering your company.
Erik [0:49:24]: Yeah.
Erik [0:49:25]: Out of the blue, you just asked them who are some companies in this space.
Erik [0:49:28]: And, like, what's that company with the ghosts?
Erik [0:49:30]: Oh, yeah.
Erik [0:49:31]: Vector.
Erik [0:49:31]: Yeah.
Erik [0:49:32]: Like, that idea of, like, the anchor for them.
Erik [0:49:34]: Yeah.
Erik [0:49:35]: In a lot of cases may even be the mascot, which is...
Erik [0:49:39]: Yes.
Erik [0:49:39]: Funny to think about, but it's very effective.
Erik [0:49:41]: We try to do this ourself.
Erik [0:49:42]: So if you...
Erik [0:49:43]: Un Hatch his website.
Erik [0:49:44]: We probably should just have one because I...
Erik [0:49:47]: But we've got a...
Erik [0:49:47]: We've got, like, a family of mascot.
Erik [0:49:49]: And I don't think we've executed as well as you, but
Jess [0:49:54]: test them out.
Jess [0:49:55]: You're doing it yeah.
Erik [0:49:56]: And we're seeing out.
Jess [0:49:58]: Yeah.
Jess [0:49:58]: Wow.
Jess [0:49:58]: Yeah.
Erik [0:49:59]: Or maybe it'll be hunger games and there's only one survival on.
Erik [0:50:01]: There you go.
Jess [0:50:02]: Yeah.
Jess [0:50:02]: Battle Royale.
Erik [0:50:03]: That's but...
Erik [0:50:03]: Yeah.
Erik [0:50:04]: Same concept.
Erik [0:50:04]: And so...
Erik [0:50:05]: Yeah.
Erik [0:50:05]: That's a really great one.
Jess [0:50:07]: Yeah.
Jess [0:50:07]: Yeah I had someone actually just tell us that when they think of the ghosts, they don't think of snapchat anymore.
Jess [0:50:12]: They think of Vector, And I was like.
Jess [0:50:14]: We have arrived.
Erik [0:50:17]: You've overtake snapchat.
Erik [0:50:18]: That's amazing.
Erik [0:50:20]: Well, those are two those are two really good ones if everybody...
Erik [0:50:23]: Anybody listening hasn't seen it yet.
Erik [0:50:26]: I would very much recommend.
Jess [0:50:28]: Thank you.
Erik [0:50:28]: Number one, go and checking out the the podcast.
Erik [0:50:30]: I mean, everything we talked about, you can go see.
Erik [0:50:33]: You can go study.
Erik [0:50:34]: You can go go to Justice Linkedin, check out what she's doing there.
Erik [0:50:38]: Check out the mascot on Vector website.
Erik [0:50:41]: Check out the podcast.
Erik [0:50:42]: Check out the newsletters.
Erik [0:50:43]: This is why I appreciate you sharing everything because, like, we can get a little bit of behind the scenes, and now people can go, like, see it in action.
Erik [0:50:50]: Go in realize.
Jess [0:50:52]: Absolutely.
Jess [0:50:52]: As
Erik [0:50:52]: well.
Erik [0:50:52]: But yeah, anywhere else you'd recommend people to either connect with you or, like, check out Vector, yeah, Anything you wanna blend too.
Jess [0:51:00]: Yeah.
Jess [0:51:00]: I'm on Linkedin every day.
Jess [0:51:02]: Even on making
Erik [0:51:04]: vacation.
Erik [0:51:04]: Vacation in the pool.
Erik [0:51:05]: Yep.
Jess [0:51:06]: Yep.
Jess [0:51:06]: Jess Cook, and you can find me on Linkedin.
Jess [0:51:08]: And, yeah, this meeting could have been a podcast.
Jess [0:51:11]: You can add that to your your lineup if you like un hinge conversations about about marketing.
Jess [0:51:18]: A good time.
Erik [0:51:20]: Awesome, Jess this is great.
Erik [0:51:21]: Thank you.
Jess [0:51:22]: Thanks for having me Erik.