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God's given you a vision to plant a church. You're gifted and maybe have the team ready to go. However, there are thousands of details and hundreds of questions that you have. In this podcast we will answer some of the common questions and answer listener submitted questions to help you fulfill the call the Lord's given you.
Welcome back everyone to 101 Questions at Church Planters Ask. I'm one of your hosts Danny Parmalee. And I'm Chris Ifill. And today we're gonna be answering the question, what are some of the things that I should consider when looking for a place to meet? Kind of that that starting place of, of gathering.
Danny Parmelee:So Chris, why don't you kind
Chris Highfill:of kick us off? Can share a little bit of of your story. Yeah. You know, you can plant a church literally anywhere. You can plant a church in a school.
Chris Highfill:You can plant a church, in a movie theater, in a YMCA. Most churches start in a planter's living room, right, with a small group of people, and that's where how that's kinda how we started over 10 years ago. Whenever we first got our start, we met in our l in our our kids' elementary school. And then we moved from there. We quickly outgrew the school.
Chris Highfill:It was kinda tough because there was a a Sunday where we had like a 150 people, and the gym only fit like a 125 at this elementary school. And I prayed on a Sunday night, God, give us either more volunteers so we can go to 2 services, or give us a new space. And that Monday morning, the YMCA called me and said, Hey, would you like to be in our facility? And the rent was around the same, and there were so many pros and positives to it. First of all, backing up for a second, elementary schools are are sometimes a great place to start, because they're a little smaller.
Chris Highfill:But, man, it's not great for parking, because, you know, elementary kids, they obviously don't drive to school. Right? And so, and then also the toilets are smaller. Like, everything about it is a little weird. And so you gotta be careful about elementary schools.
Chris Highfill:It's not the best option. But what what is great often are middle schools or high schools or YMCAs or civic centers. And for us, we met at the YMCA for over 5 years when
Danny Parmelee:we were out there. Chris, let's go back. Chris, let's go back a little bit. I don't want to rush over the school one just because that, I do think, is probably, the first option for many people because you can just go directly there and find out, you know, what the costs are, what the different rooms are. But you had mentioned some important things about elementary school that I think is really important and that would be parking and then also just the space that you'd be able to utilize there.
Danny Parmelee:So most, elementary schools, they don't have an auditorium because they're not doing plays like high schools or even sometimes middle schools. And sometimes middle schools do have an auditorium, but that's usually only because at one time, it was a high school and, you know, got passed down or whatever when the, you know, when the the city or the county built the new things. But but let's let's, again, let's let's just with elementary schools, one of the big pros of it though is that it is a little bit smaller and that's helpful even for like entry points and ease of use as far as like being able to get in there. Like, you know, there's one door. There's one entry door.
Danny Parmelee:That's where you're gonna go in and you end up in there. Usually, it's gonna be, like, the cafeteria or the gym, you know, the gymnasium, type of thing. Now there is a bit of a con to that though as well in the sense that then you don't really have a stage and it's, like, it's it's often flat and then the lighting for it is also difficult, which that's what you need to think of when you visit these different places. Like, if you shut those fluorescent lights off, then that means also you're gonna have to add to it, and you're gonna have to add all the sorts, you know, your own lighting and then oftentimes even to create a space, you know, pipe and drape and, and those types of things. So
Chris Highfill:Yeah. We had to bring a ton of gear into the elementary school to make it feel a little bit like an auditorium. So we had to build our own staging every single week, and sound and lighting and all of that. Whereas if you were like a middle school or a high school theater, oftentimes they have all of the seating that you're gonna need, although that seating is not flexible. So there's pros and cons to any any place you met.
Chris Highfill:Now the big pro for us with the elementary school is we had built in relationship because all 3 of my kids went to this school. We were able to adopt the school, adopt all of the teachers. We were able to do a lot of different community service kinds of oriented things. We did movie nights in the park, at the school. And so we were able to attract a ton of those families early on.
Chris Highfill:And what's really interesting about families that are younger like that, sometimes it's easier to attract those families because they don't have all of the established things down pat in their lives yet. You'll notice the older, the older a family gets, the more established they get in relationships. So they already have
Danny Parmelee:a lot of their friends. They already
Chris Highfill:have a lot of their routines and extra extracurriculars. So if you can reach families when their kids are in the lower part of elementary school or even pre k, that is absolutely essential. That's oftentimes when they're looking for hope. That's oftentimes whenever they're looking for they're in a challenging season in their marriage or in their relationship. And so, man, church can be a great answer.
Chris Highfill:Obviously, Jesus is the answer to help them with that. But as we think about locations though, we quickly outgrew the elementary school. It was just getting really crowded. And so I prayed, God, give us a new spot or help us to double the amount of volunteers. And then that very next day, the YMCA called me and said, hey, would you be interested in moving into the YMCA?
Chris Highfill:And it was an awesome opportunity. There was a church leaving the Y. I had coffee one time with the church planter that was in the YMCA. He gave them our contact information. And I joined the YMCA as well just because I wanted to get to know people at the Y in case we ever moved there and sure I
Danny Parmelee:mean, you never you never
Chris Highfill:worked out or anything. You just No. You were there basically
Danny Parmelee:just for a social thing. So I paid anything. You just No. You were there, basically,
Chris Highfill:just for a social thing.
Danny Parmelee:So I paid I paid $80 a month to social.
Chris Highfill:No. I I
Danny Parmelee:was working out occasionally.
Chris Highfill:Anyway, so, it's crazy, though. So we move into the YMCA. In the church, there was way more exposure off the road. People knew where the YMCA was. You would tell people, you know, hey, our church meets at John Weldon Elementary School.
Chris Highfill:And unless your kids went to that school, you would have no idea where that place even was. You had to explain it. It was multiple turns off the road. What was amazing about the O'Fallon YMCA, where where we were able to be portable for 5 years, was it was literally right off the main road. Everyone knew where it was.
Chris Highfill:Even if you weren't a member at the YMCA, you knew where the O'Fallon YMCA was. And it was something that kinda put us on the map a little bit better. Again, it wasn't a permanent facility, but it was better, than what we had had in the past. And so it was a a really great place for us. We were portable for 5 years.
Chris Highfill:Now there was there's a lot of pros at the YMCA. Obviously, there's more parking, which is great because everyone's driving to the y to go work out there or to watch their kids play volleyball or baseball or whatever. But the harsh reality is it doesn't smell great. Right? You walk into a YMCA and they often the joke I would make all the time, to people that were on the inside of the church was, yeah, it kinda smells like a crime scene in here today.
Chris Highfill:Right? Because of the bleach and the chlorine with the pool. Now what the other positive was having a pool there meant we could just baptize people in the pool. And so that was kinda cool. But, man, there were so many positives to YMCA.
Chris Highfill:They actually closed. They were closed from, they, they didn't open on Sunday morning until 1 o'clock. And so we were able to do church in there. In fact, we grew to 2 services in the YMCA. We were considering going to 3.
Chris Highfill:And then we got the permanent facility that we're in today, which has really been a game changer. But all that to say, you should become an expert on all the places that you could rent in your community because you never know, whenever you're gonna get kicked out of that spot. It doesn't always take a worldwide pandemic to make that happen. Sometimes there's just new management that that's not really interested in a church being there. And oftentimes one more downside to schools yeah.
Chris Highfill:Go ahead. Sorry.
Danny Parmelee:Yeah. Let me let me yeah. Let me jump in because and maybe this is where you were gonna go with this is, it's different at each place. So even within schools, you you might think, oh, I've got a total in. I'm I'm friends with the principal.
Danny Parmelee:That that could be the case, but in some school districts, the the school itself doesn't even have a choice, and they have to, you know, because it's part of their law that they, like, have to rent it to you, or it could be discretionary and it's actually the principal's decision. So you've got to figure all of that out and it may be different from school to school and then same with the YMCA. So what was fascinating when we moved to Tennessee is that they literally had a position, for someone at the YMCA to try to get churches to be in their facility. Like, it was something that they wanted where in other regions, it was like do what you can to keep churches out. You know what I mean?
Danny Parmelee:And so so you also have to be a little bit careful even as we're sharing some different things and we might say, oh, you know, like, elementary schools, they never have auditoriums. So, you know, you just are like, okay. Well, I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna look at any elementary schools. No. It is your job.
Danny Parmelee:Figure all of these different things out. Everything that we're sharing, basically, just put it in the back of your mind to start going through that checklist and don't just pick the cheapest place because it's not just about money. So one of the things that Chris mentioned is their move from the elementary school to the YMCA, put them on the map more. Well, just think if you're not on the map and it's this tucked away place, you might have to spend more money on marketing and awareness. So again, cheaper isn't always just, the best option.
Danny Parmelee:The other thing that I'll just throw in there a little bit is that oftentimes church planners fall into the trap of thinking, like, well, we're definitely going to be 250 people at some point. Maybe within the 1st year or 2, that's what everyone's kind of thinking. I know that's what I thought myself. So you're like, I don't want to I don't want to go to a place that only fits a 100 or a 125. As a church planner, you are more than likely going to be in multiple places.
Danny Parmelee:So just think, what is going to get me from where I am now, launch team of 30 to 50 people, what do I need to get into that will get me to 125 or 150? So if you have a place that can fit a 100, great. You can go to 2 services and, you know, one of them will be, you know, 75, the other one will be 50, whatever. Just think of it getting to the next phase because sometimes actually too big. If you're like, Oh, well, this is great.
Danny Parmelee:We've got this auditorium. It's got 500 seats. We'll just continue to grow into that. It actually often doesn't happen. You you actually can have a place that is too big, and it actually is a negative in your momentum.
Danny Parmelee:Yeah. That's right. I mean, you got to think about it. It's Yeah. That's right.
Chris Highfill:I mean, you gotta think about it almost like you're growing up. Right? When you grew up, you stayed in your parents' place for a bit. Right? And maybe this is a bad metaphor.
Chris Highfill:And then eventually, you move maybe moved into a dorm and then an apartment and then you got a home. Like, it was like a, you know, a smaller home, and then you get you know, as your family grows, you get a larger home. In the same way, when it comes to the life cycle of a church, man, initially, you're you're not gonna probably land in your forever home at your first location. And so keep that in mind that this is for right now. And something I would tell our team all the time is we're never gonna be smaller than we are right now.
Chris Highfill:And so whether we were in my living room or the elementary school or the YMCA where we met, like, we're never gonna be smaller than we are right now. And so, vision is really important for you to keep out in front of people and say, hey. This is where we're meeting today. It doesn't mean
Danny Parmelee:Yeah.
Chris Highfill:This is where we're gonna meet forever. And I would caution you on any kind of long term lease anywhere. Try to spend 6 months to a year anywhere. Like, when it comes to lease agreements or signing things, be really careful because we've seen this happen, to Yes. To churches that met in storefronts, which, Danny, I think you're gonna talk about that next as we talk about storefronts.
Chris Highfill:Like, be really, really careful about contractual agreements that you sign, with people. Yeah. Talk about storefronts a little bit, Danny.
Danny Parmelee:Yeah. So, I and and we we never rented a a storefront. So this isn't from personal experience. This is personal experience. This is more of working with planners.
Danny Parmelee:And oftentimes, when you have some sort of build out, you're looking at 3 years to 5 years minimum, and that can go really bad, both from if you don't grow into it and you can't afford the payments. But also what I've seen is church plants where they actually outgrow that facility, but they're kinda stuck with it because they had a 5 year lease. And oftentimes, if there's some sort of build out that's, like, baked into, the baked into the lease there, they literally they they can't move. So it stunts their growth because they're stuck there for, you know, another year or 2. Now there are some small things that you can do, looking at even, if you have to get out of the lease, what's the total payment that you'd have to pay.
Danny Parmelee:So even just looking ahead of those types of things, like, hey, worst case scenario, we got to pay $35 to break the lease or something like that and something like that and, you know, a 3 to 5 month notice or something something that still gives you that option that if all of a sudden you're just growing like crazy that you do have an option to be able to get out of it. Now the biggest advantage, of course, of doing some sort of storefront is the 20 fourseven. It's less about the setup and teardown. I I know that a lot of church planners are like, oh, it would just be so much easier on our people if they didn't have to set up and tear down each week. Yeah.
Danny Parmelee:That should never ever ever be your driving force. To be honest, there's an advantage, especially in the church planting phase, to have a a setup and tear down team. You're giving people a purpose. And to be honest, a lot of the early people, they don't want to be a Sunday school teacher. They're non believers, but they're like, I wanna be part of this.
Danny Parmelee:Can I help with, you know, rolling out the sound, you know, the speakers and the chair setting up the chairs, but don't put me in some sort of, like, I don't know, spiritual leadership position?
Chris Highfill:They're not gonna be they're gonna be a small group leader. I mean, what's hard is Yeah. Our setup team well, not hard. Was really great about our setup team was over half of the dudes on that team would have never led a small group. They would have never been a person that you would even put at the front door greeting people.
Chris Highfill:But they would be they would show up to church 3 hours before we started church, and they would sweat, and they would work together. And some of those guys, like I said, they didn't even know Jesus yet. But it was those relationships that were built during setup and teardown that created the kind of community where they could take a take a next step and say yes to Jesus. And so, yeah, I would Yeah. Real as as someone that was portable for 6 years, I would tell you, man, do not let the setup and tear down team be the reason why you rush into a storefront or something like that.
Chris Highfill:In fact, we almost went to a storefront. Our church did, Grace River, and Danny visited the storefront with me. And I was ready to sign the lease agreement. Like this church, this facility had already been built out as a church. Coincidentally, the church that met there had died.
Chris Highfill:And Danny looked at me and said, do you wonder why the church died? And I'm like, no. I mean, this is a great like, he goes, you're gonna die here too. And I'm like, shoot. I don't want our church to die.
Chris Highfill:And so, like, I took the advice from a friend and a mentor, like, you, Danny, really
Danny Parmelee:saved all of us. That, Chris, or are you just trying to make me look good on the podcast here?
Chris Highfill:No. I mean I I mean it. Like, you actually said, you could die here.
Danny Parmelee:That's awesome.
Chris Highfill:And I'm like, dude, I I, like, I don't want our church to die. We're growing. Right? And so, like, it was a it was a patient game though, because the reality is this was on my c group. Like, I I had, like, a group, like, places we really wanted to be someday, b group, like so and so, and then there was, like, c group, which is, like, the girl that you really didn't want to ask to prom, but you're like, And the thing is, was like she was looking better and better in the C group.
Chris Highfill:You know, like I wasn't just like, I'm not sure. And that's why I had Danny come visit me. And Danny reminded me, no, this is a really bad facility. Like, do not get into this lease agreement. And, dude, today I am sitting in what I would say is an A.
Chris Highfill:We're right off the interstate. And what it required was, it was patience. And the opportunity will come. You know, Danny and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what makes a church plant work. And it's a lot of different things.
Chris Highfill:Obviously, it's a move of God. Right? But oftentimes, it's the right opportunities, like using wisdom and saying, okay. We are gonna seize this opportunity. And I would say, most of the time, I would be very cautious about a long term agreement in a storefront, because you'll notice something about storefront churches.
Chris Highfill:If you observe anything in your communities, they typically don't grow. Now I'm not saying that they're not gonna grow. I'm just saying typically, they kinda level out or plateau around 80 to a 100 people. That's just been my experience living in this community for 10 years and watching different church plants come in and out of storefront facilities.
Danny Parmelee:Yeah. The the other thing the reason that I hear, church planters that try to convince me, that storefront is the way to go is it will then we can be there 247, to which I'm usually like, that that's not always a pro. You can you actually create issues because then all of a sudden you're at the church and other people are at the church instead of being out in the community doing different things. Then you have people that want to start renting your facility, using your facility. You've got people that just, oh, well, I need something, so I'm just gonna go to the church and knock on the door and ask if they'll pay my rent or groceries or whatever.
Danny Parmelee:And I'm not saying you shouldn't have some sort of ministry like that, but there's a lot of negatives that come, to, you know, renting kind of that long term facility. But I I would just say just even as a general thing, that flexibility in the beginning, You're getting to know your community, places you don't know how God can kind of, shift things around and change things. So to have a little bit of that freedom in the beginning is really, really nice to have. It might even mean going to the other side of town, and that type of thing. So Well, I
Chris Highfill:think the big mantra the big the big mantra that we had too, Danny, was, like, the church is not a building that you drive to. It's a movement you choose to be a part of. And so because before planters plant churches, typically they've been in a traditional church setting and you think in your mind, oh man, we have to have offices and we have to have this and that in a 20 fourseven operation. You don't have to have that. In fact, you could even if you just insist on having offices and want a 20 fourseven setup, rent out a 1,000 square foot office space somewhere where you can meet with people, have band practice, whatever.
Chris Highfill:That's what we did for 3 years. And it was really great because it gave us that quote unquote permanent home, but it was it was really difficult as well. And so
Danny Parmelee:Yep. I was just counting on my hand. I was 5 years without any office at all because know, we were renting a facility, and it it yes. There's some downsides to that, but the the overall advantage is just being out and about and being in the community. So, let's talk a little bit about movie theaters.
Danny Parmelee:For a while, definitely in the nineties, you know, that was like the place to kind of do a church plan. I'm seeing it a lot less now. I'll start out with one of the pros and that is, of course, parking. Almost every movie theater is set up so that it can park lots of people. Second of all, you have, you know, your permanent seating.
Danny Parmelee:So even though you're renting, you don't you're not setting up chairs. But as we said, that's not that big of a thing. The other thing is is that there are movie theater companies where they do want to rent out even Marcus. You can type in Marcus Theatres Church Planting and they have a whole department that is set up so that they can rent their facilities out because a lot of people aren't going to the movies on Sunday morning, so they literally wanna utilize their space to be able to do it. So it can be there.
Danny Parmelee:One of the biggest negatives, of course, is children's area, and so you've gotta be thinking about that. I've seen it done, and I've seen it done well in theaters that you basically rent out. You know, if it's, you know, there's 4 to 5 different, actual theaters there, you can rent out one of them and becomes like the kids area, but I don't know. It's kinda weird because you're either on the stage or in the front. You're on a tilt.
Danny Parmelee:I don't know. Just a little bit odd.
Chris Highfill:Yeah. So you don't see this in movie theaters because you rarely walk in there when the lights are fully on, But movie theaters are really gross. Like, the carpet usually isn't that clean. There's stale popcorn and spilled soda, and it's sticky. Like, there are a lot of things about movie theaters that aren't clean.
Chris Highfill:In fact, if you do the research, a lot of movie theaters actually have wrap problems because we actually looked at movie theaters for a while. And it's a great option. But man, sometimes there's especially in an older theater, they're not as well maintained as they need to be. And you may even have to bring in, like, a special crew that cleans the bathrooms for you before or afterwards. In fact, I would tell you in any portable situation, that may need to be a part of a team, that you could set up, like some kind of a hospitality team, making sure they're beautifying whatever campus that you're using.
Chris Highfill:We had to do that because the elementary school was kinda stinky sometimes. But all that to say, movie theaters are a great option. Just something to think about with the pros and cons. Parking is always great at movie theaters, which is nice, unless it's some kind of a downtown movie theater or something. And then usually the rate is pretty reasonable because as Danny mentioned, there's not a lot happening on Sunday mornings for movie theaters.
Chris Highfill:But the first showing usually is at noon. And so that would mean that you would have to you know, you can't linger a long time at a movie theater because, hey, they're getting ready to start, and we gotta go. So And you you also can't do
Danny Parmelee:a lot of outdoor stuff which that beginning I mean, I guess it depends on the movie theater, but, you know, you you're not able to kinda, like, set up a tent or set up a bounce house and, you know, do all of that stuff that's kind of the eye catching thing. So, alright. Last one, I think, that we did not cover yet is using another church, as a facility, a a church that's going. This, of course, was our personal experience. Lots of pros to it.
Danny Parmelee:Lots of difficulties, as well. And I think I'm gonna start it with one of the the difficulties. Of course, it's just confusion. So you go renting another church, people can make that association. So let's say whatever you're charismatic and you're renting out, you know, First Baptist Church and, you know, all of a sudden, people just assume whatever, you know, trappings, whatever that group or denomination or theology has that's different than yours and to be able to parse out some of those different things, can be, pretty difficult.
Danny Parmelee:But I would say the number one difficulty is actually just working with that other church, and it can start out really, really well because you're both kind of, you know, pie in the sky, rose colored glasses, and you do your service, and we'll do ours later in the afternoon, or we'll do ours earlier in the morning. You do yours later. But I am telling you the number of stories where, you know, it just becomes difficult because someone, you know, moved whatever, moved the water bottle from the stage over to here, Someone moved the podium or someone did this or you're not out quick enough. You're not out in time. And so there are a lot of difficulties, with that.
Chris Highfill:Yeah. I I think for this option, it's my least favorite of all that we've talked about. Now, sometimes there's no other option. Right? And so you just have to roll with it.
Chris Highfill:I'm working with a church planter right now that's doing this, and it's working really well. But they they even had conflict over a paint color that everybody had decided on. And then the the new church decides to paint the lobby, and it's not the right color, or that it was too it was too dark in the established church's opinion. And it was like, oh, man. This is just a lot.
Chris Highfill:It's really difficult to please those folks. Even when the church that you're meeting in is kinda dying, they're still holding on and their building is kinda like the Alamo. And it's like, you don't wanna mess with this. And so as a result
Danny Parmelee:of that Yeah. That that was our that was our that was our experience and even including when we would wanna change something because they had the old, like, flannel banners, not for the kids, but literally, like, hanging up and it's like, hey. Is there any way that we can, you know, like, take them down, put them back up? Well, you know, it just and like you said, for them, it was it was sacred space. It had Mhmm.
Danny Parmelee:It you know, it's tied to so many different things. But, again, there are I would say there are lots of examples, though, where it becomes a good thing. And so even in our situation, one of the pros was is that as this church, you know, did end up closing its doors, we ended up buying the building. We had a foot in the door to be able to do that. We knew the facility.
Danny Parmelee:We knew the things that were that, you know, that were wrong with it. We knew the advantages that it had, and that does happen. And there's also, times even the church plant that we helped with here in in Tennessee, the church building was actually gifted to the church plant, And so when you get scenarios like that, that's absolutely huge where you start out as a renter and then, all of a sudden, that building gets gifted to you because that church is happy and that they were excited to see the growth and the young people and that type of thing.
Chris Highfill:Yeah. So I think you just have to gauge, is this church looking at their building like a monument or a potential of a movement? And that's the big thing. Right? That the church is never designed to be a monument.
Chris Highfill:But you can find out really quickly when start to interview that church what is sacred to them. And they'll say initially, not much. Right? But then, oh, you can't move this. You can't do that.
Chris Highfill:Watch out for this. Somebody donated that. There's no way like, it's like, hey, you wanna make sure if you end up in a partnership like this, that they're really open handed with their facility. I'm not saying they're gonna give everything away. There's not an ideal situation out there.
Chris Highfill:So whether you're in a school, a movie theater, a community center, like, One of the things we had to deal with at the YMCA that I forgot to mention was there was a book fair 5 times a year. I mean, 5 times a year, we had to figure out a way to make the lobby not look like a circus. It was crazy. But all that to say, no matter where you're at, it's gonna be a challenge. But, man, with all those challenges, there's opportunities to develop more teams, and use wisdom, and make sure that you're not moving too fast.
Chris Highfill:Get the insight from a friend, that's been there and done that. Don't seek advice just from people in your church because most of them had never planted a church before. Get another church planter, whether it's in your town or in your region that's a part of your movement, and get their eyes on it as well. I'm telling you, I think our church wouldn't be alive today if we would have made some of the bad decisions I initially wanted to make because I just wasn't patient when it came to a facility. Chris, one of
Danny Parmelee:the things that's really important, when you're renting facilities, whether it's, you know, theater or school, definitely you need good signage because people already might be confused like, oh, so wait, is this a church? Is it schools at YMC? Whatever. And so one of the great things is is even we have our sponsors, outreach.com, who give all of our listeners like $1500 worth of signage and marketing stuff. And so, you have no excuse.
Danny Parmelee:You can get that and of course if you need to add to it, which I'm sure you will, and you'll kind of build over time, to be able to do that. So small little shout out to outreach.com for that. What you can do if you want that free stuff that they're giving to our listeners, just go to churchplantersask.com backslash free stuff. You're not entering a drawing to maybe get it. You literally get it.
Danny Parmelee:Just go there. Fill out the form. And, they'll give you the free stuff and just brand it, all of your, you know, signage and and things like that. So it's a a wonderful opportunity. Make sure you take advantage of that.
Danny Parmelee:Well, I think that we can wrap it up right there. Hopefully, this helped you as you're trying to decide and discern where your tran church plant could meet. And, if you have a question for us, you can go to churchplantersask.com. Type it in there. And until next time, keep asking those questions.