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Source Files. What the heck are they and why do they hold all of the superpowers? Will and Kathryn discuss problems surrounding source files of original artwork, why folks charge for releasing them and why marketers and communication professionals need to access them.
If you have a topic or question you’d like us to cover, you can submit it to: www.openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
Learn more about this podcast here: https://www.openpixelstudios.com/behindthepixel
EMedia produces the podcast in Easthampton, MA.
Produced by Jackson Foote and Will Colón
Written and Created by:
Will Colón: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willmcolon/
Kathryn Taccone: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryntaccone/
Creators & Guests
What is Behind The Pixel: Closing The Animation Communication Gap?
This podcast helps bridge the knowledge gaps between marketing and creative teams. Episodes explore how to communicate creatively, production hacks that save time, and unique solutions to ongoing creative problems.
Open Pixel Studios is a women-owned (WBENC) certified animation studio in Massachusetts that creates custom animated marketing content.
Hosts Will Colón and Kathryn Taccone are co-founders of Open Pixel Studios with years of industry experience in sales, marketing, animation, design, and education.
Submit a question to the pod! -> openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
00;00;00;01 - 00;00;00;11
Did you know?
00;00;00;11 - 00;00;05;05
At Costco, a jar of olives costs
less than ten bucks.
00;00;05;08 - 00;00;08;01
Is that, is that true
or are you just making that up?
00;00;08;01 - 00;00;11;15
A creative on my like Instagram
put out a story
00;00;11;15 - 00;00;14;18
about how she is
officially going to Costco
00;00;14;18 - 00;00;19;18
instead of buying olives from Amazon
because it's like $22 less.
00;00;19;20 - 00;00;21;08
Whoa. You're buying. Ah, wait.
00;00;21;08 - 00;00;23;23
You're buying olives from Amazon?
That's a terrible.
00;00;23;23 - 00;00;25;29
No, no, don't. Don't judge.
00;00;25;29 - 00;00;26;29
It's you know,
00;00;26;29 - 00;00;31;05
if you have to get a big jar of olives
and you can't get it at a physical store.
00;00;31;07 - 00;00;32;23
Oh, you mean like.
00;00;32;23 - 00;00;34;18
Like olives in bulk, I guess.
00;00;34;18 - 00;00;36;07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00;00;36;07 - 00;00;38;18
Yeah. Because we buy stuff in bulk
every now and then.
00;00;38;18 - 00;00;40;08
I don't like olives that much.
00;00;40;08 - 00;00;42;21
I'm okay with olives, but not that much.
00;00;42;21 - 00;00;44;14
I wouldn't buy a big jar anywhere.
00;00;44;14 - 00;00;47;12
I take one or two in my martini
and that's like, That's it.
00;00;47;12 - 00;01;05;00
You don't. Drink martinis.
00;01;05;03 - 00;01;05;20
Hello.
00;01;05;20 - 00;01;08;11
Welcome back. How's it going?
This is Behind The Pixel.
00;01;08;11 - 00;01;10;02
My name is Will. My name is Kathryn.
00;01;10;02 - 00;01;12;24
And we are the co-founders of Open
Pixel Studios.
00;01;12;24 - 00;01;15;15
We are running this podcast.
00;01;15;15 - 00;01;17;03
This is our second season.
00;01;17;03 - 00;01;19;03
We've been in business
for about seven years.
00;01;19;03 - 00;01;21;05
Oof! In February, I think. Mm hmm.
00;01;21;05 - 00;01;24;13
And this is Behind The Pixel
where we try to bridge the knowledge gap
00;01;24;13 - 00;01;27;12
between those who buy creative content
and those who make it.
00;01;27;12 - 00;01;29;02
You did great. Let that sink in.
00;01;29;02 - 00;01;29;17
Thank you.
00;01;29;17 - 00;01;32;26
Yeah,
I'm getting better at remembering that.
00;01;32;28 - 00;01;34;28
So this is a hack.
00;01;34;28 - 00;01;36;16
I'm pretty sure this is a hack.
00;01;36;16 - 00;01;39;16
And today
we're talking about source files.
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Source files getting down to the source.
00;01;42;22 - 00;01;46;00
You got to.
You've got to look at your sources.
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Mm hmm.
00;01;46;12 - 00;01;48;23
Get your source sources.
00;01;48;23 - 00;01;49;26
Check your sources.
00;01;49;26 - 00;01;52;07
Why don't you tell us what source files
are? Yes.
00;01;52;07 - 00;01;53;11
What the heck are they?
00;01;53;11 - 00;01;56;15
And what do they do
and why do they hold all the super powers?
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I think is the tagline of this service.
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Sure.
00;02;00;12 - 00;02;02;08
So what are source files? Source files?
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For those of you who don't know.
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Here's my analogy.
00;02;05;10 - 00;02;09;11
If you're hiring a chef to make a cake,
00;02;09;13 - 00;02;12;29
the chef would be the artists, right?
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Who are making the thing.
00;02;14;06 - 00;02;17;28
Artists have tools like a baking pan
or a whisk
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or an electronic whisk
or I guess that's all I now.
00;02;22;11 - 00;02;26;02
An automatic stirrer
that stirs in your pan for you
00;02;26;02 - 00;02;30;27
so you don't have to use your hand
to do anything.
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That's basically the eye of the tools.
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That's right.
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That's so right.
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So those are the tools we use.
00;02;38;20 - 00;02;40;04
And then there's the ingredients.
00;02;40;04 - 00;02;42;23
And then the ingredients
in our line of work.
00;02;42;23 - 00;02;46;10
Usually a chef would have to go out
and buy those ingredients.
00;02;46;13 - 00;02;48;19
We can sometimes do that.
00;02;48;19 - 00;02;49;24
We can go out and buy
00;02;49;24 - 00;02;54;04
some of the things that we need,
but we also make our own ingredients.
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Right.
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We like churn better.
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I don't know.
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Let's skip the analogy for a second.
00;03;00;17 - 00;03;04;02
But we're making stuff
in order to create the final.
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And I think that's kind of the idea
I'm getting at, right?
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So we put all those things together
00;03;08;20 - 00;03;11;14
and we create
if you're going back to the analogy,
00;03;11;14 - 00;03;13;27
if you're the chef,
you're creating a batter,
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and then the batter is the thing
that you actually put under pressure
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and under heat like a deadline
and bake the final video, right?
00;03;20;21 - 00;03;22;02
Like, sure, I'm mixing.
00;03;22;02 - 00;03;24;08
Sure. My analogies here. Mm hmm.
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So source files are the ingredients
and the batter together.
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And you can only access those, too,
if you have the tools.
00;03;35;14 - 00;03;36;21
Right? Right.
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You get me.
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So say you work in Photoshop.
00;03;39;09 - 00;03;41;29
Photoshop is a very easy thing
to understand.
00;03;41;29 - 00;03;44;05
Wrap your head around Photoshop.
00;03;44;05 - 00;03;48;12
If I make an edit to a photo,
I have actually two files.
00;03;48;12 - 00;03;52;11
I have the file that I give to you,
and then I have the file
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that I created that thing with,
and that is the source file.
00;03;56;09 - 00;03;59;25
And I think most marketers know
that some nonprofit communication folks
00;03;59;25 - 00;04;02;11
might not know that,
but that's what source files are.
00;04;02;11 - 00;04;05;04
So as a company,
sometimes you'll get asked
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to provide those source files
or to not provide those source files,
00;04;08;27 - 00;04;13;08
depending on the project
and the client type and what have you.
00;04;13;08 - 00;04;16;13
So is there a reason why
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a client would use source files
and ask us for them?
00;04;20;14 - 00;04;20;22
Yeah.
00;04;20;22 - 00;04;24;03
People usually tend to ask for these
source files at the end of the project,
00;04;24;05 - 00;04;27;09
and usually marketing
folks will ask for source files
00;04;27;09 - 00;04;32;10
because they're trying to do something
specific with them in case of emergency.
00;04;32;10 - 00;04;38;25
Right now, that emergency might be the
date of this event shifted.
00;04;38;27 - 00;04;41;08
It's no longer on December 7th.
00;04;41;08 - 00;04;43;15
It's on December 25th. Right.
00;04;43;15 - 00;04;47;01
And we as marketers maybe have Photoshop
as part of our wheelhouse.
00;04;47;01 - 00;04;51;06
So we could just go in, change
that quick date and then be done.
00;04;51;09 - 00;04;53;14
Correct. Exactly.
00;04;53;14 - 00;04;56;19
Now, this gets a little pervasive
from folks
00;04;56;19 - 00;05;00;08
who may want to be taking advantage
of the type of work
00;05;00;11 - 00;05;03;18
that you might be giving away
as an artist.
00;05;03;20 - 00;05;06;17
So in a scenario where,
00;05;06;17 - 00;05;11;01
let's say you're creating graphics
for a football.
00;05;11;01 - 00;05;12;26
Game, go sports ball. Yes.
00;05;12;26 - 00;05;15;21
You know, when you watch a football game,
go sports
00;05;15;21 - 00;05;18;23
ball,
you have a ton of stuff in in graphics
00;05;18;23 - 00;05;22;16
that pop up stats and players
names and Africa, what they call that.
00;05;22;16 - 00;05;25;09
But it's like a sports package. Mm hmm.
00;05;25;09 - 00;05;29;20
Those are all created with templates
because they all have to swap out.
00;05;29;20 - 00;05;31;27
You have how many players
on a football team?
00;05;31;27 - 00;05;32;22
I guess it depends.
00;05;32;22 - 00;05;34;25
But you have all these players
on a football team.
00;05;34;25 - 00;05;37;18
You can have like 300 technically. Yeah.
00;05;37;18 - 00;05;41;06
And you have to have stats for all of them
and so they all have to look the same
00;05;41;06 - 00;05;41;28
and that kind of thing.
00;05;41;28 - 00;05;45;14
So you create these templates
and then you kind of give them away
00;05;45;14 - 00;05;49;12
because they need to use them
consistently for each broadcast.
00;05;49;15 - 00;05;49;29
Mm hmm.
00;05;49;29 - 00;05;53;12
That makes sense,
because that's part of the package.
00;05;53;15 - 00;05;56;10
Now, when you're a marketer or a nonprofit
00;05;56;10 - 00;06;01;02
and you have a piece of collateral,
some some sort of video that you've made,
00;06;01;06 - 00;06;05;26
it's an ad maybe for a product
and there's animation in there.
00;06;05;29 - 00;06;09;06
If you use the source files
for a different product,
00;06;09;09 - 00;06;11;16
but use the same animation,
00;06;11;16 - 00;06;14;21
then you're kind of skipping out on hiring
00;06;14;21 - 00;06;18;00
someone else to do a different thing
for a different product.
00;06;18;02 - 00;06;18;25
Does that make sense?
00;06;18;25 - 00;06;19;20
I think so.
00;06;19;20 - 00;06;22;20
So there's a lot of power
in the source files
00;06;22;20 - 00;06;26;23
because you can replace, alter or change
all of the things
00;06;26;23 - 00;06;31;13
within that file
to kind of create something new.
00;06;31;16 - 00;06;34;16
And there's a sort of moral question
in there.
00;06;34;20 - 00;06;35;19
Should you do that?
00;06;35;19 - 00;06;36;12
I don't know.
00;06;36;12 - 00;06;38;27
It's going in a little bit
into the controversy.
00;06;38;27 - 00;06;39;11
A little bit.
00;06;39;11 - 00;06;39;23
Yeah.
00;06;39;23 - 00;06;44;04
I mean, the biggest the biggest challenge
to working with source files is
00;06;44;06 - 00;06;48;17
and I think this is why I think
source files come in to different layers.
00;06;48;19 - 00;06;51;27
Like those source files in terms of like,
00;06;51;29 - 00;06;55;26
we give you everything that we've worked
on on the project from start to finish,
00;06;55;29 - 00;06;59;23
even if you don't have the ability
to even open it or work with it.
00;06;59;25 - 00;07;01;13
Which happens often because.
00;07;01;13 - 00;07;05;07
Yeah, yeah, there's, there's times
you might not have a 3D package like
00;07;05;11 - 00;07;07;25
it's expensive to get it
just for the sake of opening
00;07;07;25 - 00;07;10;26
a file that you
then haven't had experience working with.
00;07;10;26 - 00;07;14;25
And you might look at this,
you know, Maya file and be like,
00;07;14;28 - 00;07;18;15
Okay, great, I can open this character,
but how do I render it?
00;07;18;16 - 00;07;19;28
What does that mean? Like, you know.
00;07;19;28 - 00;07;21;13
So there's there's a lot there.
00;07;21;13 - 00;07;25;18
A second issue is that almost
every animation studio will have like
00;07;25;21 - 00;07;29;10
proprietary pipelines or tools or software
that they work within.
00;07;29;12 - 00;07;33;12
So even within the tool
that you're being able to have,
00;07;33;14 - 00;07;36;27
like if you have after effects, let's say,
and you try to open a source file,
00;07;37;03 - 00;07;39;28
you might not have the plugins that
00;07;39;28 - 00;07;43;27
the animator used
in order to be able to open it completely.
00;07;43;27 - 00;07;47;00
So there might be missing links,
There might be like you might get
00;07;47;00 - 00;07;51;28
all sorts of popups that say you can't use
a big one is like particular.
00;07;52;00 - 00;07;56;24
So there's things like that that just make
it more difficult to work with.
00;07;56;27 - 00;08;00;29
Yeah, I think we try to see source files
on two different fronts because there's
00;08;01;02 - 00;08;02;28
there's a source file level.
00;08;02;28 - 00;08;07;01
To me, that's for the purpose
of repurposing for marketing.
00;08;07;08 - 00;08;12;24
So what I mean by that is like
having the ability to take a pose
00;08;12;24 - 00;08;16;27
of a character that might be waving
or doing something or looking happy,
00;08;16;27 - 00;08;20;26
whatever that might be in that particular
that was in the animation that you
00;08;20;26 - 00;08;24;19
then want that one image
for your presentation purpose.
00;08;24;21 - 00;08;28;14
That's a little bit
different of a situation for me
00;08;28;14 - 00;08;31;13
that that it's still a source file
that you might be giving,
00;08;31;17 - 00;08;36;09
but it's packaged in such a way that still
allows you to like open what you need.
00;08;36;12 - 00;08;38;27
So it's just a
it's a different way of approaching it.
00;08;38;27 - 00;08;43;14
But also, to your point earlier,
you would hope that for that presentation
00;08;43;17 - 00;08;47;18
that you're also working with
a graphic design team or the same studio
00;08;47;23 - 00;08;51;26
to be able to make your presentation
look a lot better because they'll also
00;08;51;28 - 00;08;56;02
as the creators of that,
they're going to be able to more easily
00;08;56;05 - 00;08;59;22
go in and make changes
and like extract things as you need it.
00;08;59;22 - 00;09;01;15
So yeah, it kind of depends.
00;09;01;15 - 00;09;01;21
Yeah.
00;09;01;21 - 00;09;03;21
If you're going from video
to print, oftentimes
00;09;03;21 - 00;09;08;21
what happens is you're our our video
files are like ten htp for print.
00;09;08;21 - 00;09;12;00
You need to have like a 300 DPI
00;09;12;01 - 00;09;15;22
like file that's like huge and like,
I can't get that unless you.
00;09;15;23 - 00;09;17;19
Unless we're animating everything in 4K.
00;09;17;19 - 00;09;18;04
Exactly.
00;09;18;04 - 00;09;18;26
Like, you can't get that
00;09;18;26 - 00;09;23;06
unless you make larger renders and like,
you still need the tools to do that.
00;09;23;06 - 00;09;25;08
So those are very specific examples.
00;09;25;08 - 00;09;29;16
But you know, there are other times
when I've heard artists being like,
00;09;29;16 - 00;09;33;15
Hey, like they're asking for source files
to charge for these.
00;09;33;15 - 00;09;37;05
Like they contain so much more information
00;09;37;05 - 00;09;41;09
that is in a way detrimental
to my business, right?
00;09;41;09 - 00;09;42;09
Like it could be.
00;09;42;09 - 00;09;45;09
You're taking me out of the you're
taking me out of the loop
00;09;45;15 - 00;09;47;26
and you're giving away,
like, all my stuff.
00;09;47;26 - 00;09;51;03
On the flip side,
I've had clients ask for source files
00;09;51;07 - 00;09;56;20
for projects that are older,
that are consistent on a yearly basis.
00;09;56;23 - 00;09;59;22
Mm hmm. And, like, they're not helpful.
00;10;00;00 - 00;10;02;13
You know, like, the source files
00;10;02;13 - 00;10;04;26
that come in from last year,
00;10;04;26 - 00;10;08;01
because this year
is an entirely different design.
00;10;08;01 - 00;10;12;02
And like, it's
an entirely different visual thing.
00;10;12;05 - 00;10;15;27
It's not going to help you to have those
because it's a yearly event
00;10;15;27 - 00;10;17;08
that changes every year, you know?
00;10;17;08 - 00;10;20;07
So the last piece to
00;10;20;07 - 00;10;24;16
about source files that you can expect,
I think I had a friend
00;10;24;16 - 00;10;28;19
colleague say this to me
is that we provide source files for free,
00;10;28;21 - 00;10;31;05
but we do not clean them up.
00;10;31;05 - 00;10;36;01
So and by that he meant all the layers are
whatever they are,
00;10;36;03 - 00;10;40;04
There's no renaming,
there's no folder structure.
00;10;40;06 - 00;10;42;09
Like, whatever you got.
00;10;42;09 - 00;10;44;10
Have fun with that organization.
Yeah. Yeah.
00;10;44;10 - 00;10;46;27
If you want to pay us to clean it up,
because it does take some time.
00;10;46;27 - 00;10;48;22
It takes some time to clean up files.
00;10;48;22 - 00;10;49;09
It can,
00;10;49;09 - 00;10;53;02
especially when we're working on deadline
and we're churning out things
00;10;53;02 - 00;10;53;27
really quickly.
00;10;53;27 - 00;10;56;20
We're not naming things necessarily
the right way.
00;10;56;20 - 00;10;59;10
So you're supposed to you got to do it.
00;10;59;10 - 00;11;01;02
Got to stay clean.
00;11;01;02 - 00;11;05;02
I'm I'm of the mindset
that you clean it up after you're done.
00;11;05;04 - 00;11;07;05
Like, I'll I'll work through it.
00;11;07;05 - 00;11;08;17
We have two different organizations.
00;11;08;17 - 00;11;13;01
Do well, because I think I don't know
exactly if I'm going to use that layer
00;11;13;01 - 00;11;16;05
sometimes I make a layer
for like measuring purposes
00;11;16;05 - 00;11;18;01
and it gets left in the file.
00;11;18;01 - 00;11;19;29
And then I'm like, you know, who cares?
00;11;19;29 - 00;11;23;01
So this is a side note,
but I think that comes from our different
00;11;23;01 - 00;11;26;16
like artistic backgrounds
because like for me it's like the idea of
00;11;26;16 - 00;11;29;24
like knowing that it's quite possible
00;11;29;24 - 00;11;33;05
that another character animator
has to work in my shop for some reason.
00;11;33;12 - 00;11;38;01
And so, like, it needs to be cleaned
so that they can go through it
00;11;38;01 - 00;11;40;21
and be like, Oh,
I know what to take from this.
00;11;40;21 - 00;11;41;20
I know what to change.
00;11;41;20 - 00;11;44;19
Like, especially if they're dealing
with match on actions or things like that.
00;11;44;19 - 00;11;47;19
So it's just a
it's a courtesy to other artists,
00;11;47;26 - 00;11;50;28
but it's you're not thinking about it
necessarily from the client perspective.
00;11;50;29 - 00;11;51;10
Yeah.
00;11;51;10 - 00;11;55;00
And in a weird way, you're kind of talking
to the other artist if you're
00;11;55;00 - 00;11;56;28
if you're going to
if you're going to give your file
00;11;56;28 - 00;12;01;15
to someone else, you're like,
you're kind of secretly like
00;12;01;18 - 00;12;04;23
having a this other language
that you're giving away to someone else.
00;12;04;23 - 00;12;08;07
Like there's, there's, there's, you know,
there's like thoughts in the file.
00;12;08;07 - 00;12;12;05
You're giving me ideas to know,
throw secrets into my source files.
00;12;12;08 - 00;12;15;07
I just. Oh. I think I've done that.
00;12;15;07 - 00;12;17;08
Yeah, I have totally done that.
00;12;17;08 - 00;12;20;26
Like,
I've renamed all the layers. So. Yeah.
00;12;20;29 - 00;12;23;01
So anyway, those are source files.
00;12;23;01 - 00;12;24;25
So I think you talked
about all the problems.
00;12;24;25 - 00;12;27;24
We talked about proprietary tools
and how they get in the way.
00;12;27;24 - 00;12;28;27
They can be expensive.
00;12;28;27 - 00;12;30;22
There's messiness in files.
00;12;30;22 - 00;12;32;00
Do we charge for them?
00;12;32;00 - 00;12;34;06
That's kind of up to the artist or studio.
00;12;34;06 - 00;12;38;22
I would say my advice to anyone
who is thinking about getting source files
00;12;38;22 - 00;12;44;19
from their creative house, just establish
what your goals are with them beforehand
00;12;44;21 - 00;12;48;13
because it depends on the relationship
you have with them.
00;12;48;16 - 00;12;52;16
The intention behind the source files
that's going to determine
00;12;52;16 - 00;12;56;18
whether a creative comes back and says,
okay, well we can give you this, but
00;12;56;20 - 00;13;00;10
or they say, okay, here
we've packaged it in such a way.
00;13;00;12 - 00;13;01;17
This is how you can use it.
00;13;01;17 - 00;13;05;26
Like I think it's a testament
to being communicative
00;13;05;26 - 00;13;11;07
about your approach to things
and why that's going to change.
00;13;11;07 - 00;13;12;21
The file type that you get.
00;13;12;21 - 00;13;16;04
So yeah, just just be open
and have a conversation
00;13;16;04 - 00;13;19;03
about what types of source files
you need, why you need them,
00;13;19;03 - 00;13;23;21
because there might be a better way
to package what you're looking for, right?
00;13;23;29 - 00;13;24;15
It might be.
00;13;24;15 - 00;13;27;15
You might say, Hey,
I just need that pose from that character
00;13;27;21 - 00;13;30;07
to put into my
our other marketing campaign
00;13;30;07 - 00;13;31;24
because this character
is going to be used throughout.
00;13;31;24 - 00;13;34;02
Maybe it's a mascot. In that case.
00;13;34;02 - 00;13;36;11
I don't necessarily need to package all of
00;13;36;11 - 00;13;39;22
the Maya files that are used to animate it
because you can't open that.
00;13;39;29 - 00;13;44;03
But I can send you a couple renders
that are just that individual frame.
00;13;44;06 - 00;13;47;22
So, you know,
it's just having conversation about that.
00;13;47;23 - 00;13;48;12
Yeah, yeah.
00;13;48;12 - 00;13;51;10
The Y is really important.
That's a good point.
00;13;51;10 - 00;13;51;17
Yeah.
00;13;51;17 - 00;13;56;13
The other thing that I'll mention
lastly here is locking source files.
00;13;56;15 - 00;14;00;07
So there's technically ways to bake
00;14;00;07 - 00;14;04;04
in animation
so that no one really can change it.
00;14;04;04 - 00;14;07;28
And that's where the sort of the chef
is making the batter,
00;14;08;00 - 00;14;09;05
like the way you make them.
00;14;09;05 - 00;14;12;05
If I just handed you over some batter
and you made a cake,
00;14;12;05 - 00;14;16;06
it would taste delicious
because I'm a good chef or whatever.
00;14;16;09 - 00;14;20;05
But if I gave you the ingredients
to that batter,
00;14;20;07 - 00;14;22;21
you might not make the same batter, Right?
00;14;22;21 - 00;14;26;07
You might make some other okay batter.
00;14;26;10 - 00;14;28;15
And that tastes fine, you know?
00;14;28;15 - 00;14;29;17
But anyway, so.
00;14;29;17 - 00;14;31;11
So there are ways to lock those files.
00;14;31;11 - 00;14;32;23
So be aware of that, too.
00;14;32;23 - 00;14;34;16
Some artists might be doing that.
I don't know.
00;14;34;16 - 00;14;38;14
We do that in specific situations
only because we use proprietary software
00;14;38;14 - 00;14;42;12
and our animations that require
kind of that to be the case. So.
00;14;42;14 - 00;14;44;00
So it just depends. Yeah.
00;14;44;00 - 00;14;48;15
Be honest and transparent
with your goals behind source files.
00;14;48;22 - 00;14;52;07
They shouldn't be intimidating
or scary per say.
00;14;52;09 - 00;14;56;18
We don't want you to have source files
and then be like, Oh, what do I even do?
00;14;56;18 - 00;14;57;11
How do I do this?
00;14;57;11 - 00;14;59;21
Or like,
it's a pain in the butt to work with.
00;14;59;21 - 00;15;03;26
So I think it's just, yeah, be mindful
and have those conversations.
00;15;03;29 - 00;15;06;16
Cool. Well,
I think that's it for this episode.
00;15;06;16 - 00;15;10;28
Thank you so much for listening
and we will see you in the next episode.
00;15;11;01 - 00;15;11;28
You know? You're welcome.
00;15;11;28 - 00;15;13;17
I'm happy to listen any time.
00;15;13;17 - 00;15;15;25
So are we just talking to each other?
00;15;15;25 - 00;15;17;08
I get it. I see what you're saying.
00;15;17;08 - 00;15;19;02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;15;19;02 - 00;15;21;17
I did a a riff.
00;15;21;17 - 00;15;23;26
A riff, but good improv.
00;15;23;26 - 00;15;28;00
I kind of something.
00;15;28;02 - 00;15;34;06
See you next time.
00;15;34;08 - 00;15;37;12
A big thank you, as always, to E Media
for producing this podcast.
00;15;37;13 - 00;15;39;10
Our producer is Jackson Foote.
00;15;39;10 - 00;15;43;10
Our music is created by hidden
and licensed through premium FT.com.
00;15;43;10 - 00;15;46;14
And as always, stay honest, stay creative.
00;15;46;16 - 00;15;49;03
Stay open. Open Pixel Studios.
00;15;49;03 - 00;15;50;16
Thanks. We'll see you in the next episode.