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Tyson Popplestone is a Comedian from Melbourne Australia. Join him for a brand new interview each week.
Hey, I appreciate you making the time to jump on. It's been one that I've really been looking forward to, sitting down with you and discussing. think I mentioned to you just before I hit record. I reckon the first time I read your book was perhaps three, three or four years ago. And it was down the rabbit hole of quite a number of productivity books. And I'm sure you've heard this before, but
One of the first things I noticed as I started to try and get my life more in line and started to schedule things more efficiently was it seemed that there was no correlation between the efficiency of the use of my time and the amount of time that I had to be able to put my feet up and relaxed. It seemed that the more time I created, the more time I had to do more work, which seemed like a vicious cycle that I know a lot of people I speak to have experienced.
David (02:51.112)
Yeah, we're good.
Tyson (02:54.327)
It was, I'm not sure like your experience in the world of productivity, the field seems to be flooded with perhaps even the best intentions and yet, you know, with the best intentions and not the correct tools, it can still leave you feeling as though you're a little bit paddling upstream for a lack of a better expression. And I'm not sure if you can talk to that, but it's something that I definitely notice in my own life.
without some structures in place, can be an overwhelm of just tasks and tools and jobs that you have to navigate your way through.
David (03:31.89)
Yeah, well it's kind of a new world. I mean there's nothing new in the world except how frequently things are new.
So, you know, as you and I are speaking right now, stuff is piling up in your email right now that may change your priorities for tomorrow.
That was not true for your parents. And for your kids, that's going to be exponentially complex. So the necessity to stay on top of your world of how many things are you letting into your world that you need to think about, decide about, make decisions about, or whatever, that's just increasing. So you better get good at that.
Tyson (04:22.082)
It's something that just simply taking the time to acknowledge I find helpful because it's funny, like I've been playing a lot with AI over the last couple of weeks and I've been hearing so many of the promises and it's interesting to hear you say there's nothing new under the sun except all of the new things. And I'm sure from generation to generation there'd been tools and promises which have constantly been broken but...
David (04:44.61)
come on. You know, when they say you drive more than 35 miles an hour, you die. You know, when the car was invented and when the phone was invented, my God, we're disturbing our private life. my God. So, you know, new technology has always moved people out of their comfort zone.
Tyson (05:08.933)
definitely moves out of your comfort zone. But what I find interesting is even more than just being moved out of the comfort zone is the tools that are apparently gonna save you a whole lot of time. In my instance, chat GPT, AI, all of a sudden it's the art.
David (05:19.507)
You
And it's so funny because, I'm sorry, the technology has moved much faster than your consciousness to deal with it. Period. So you're gonna have to deal, you're gonna have to figure out how do I deal with AI? How do I deal with this chat cheat PT? How do I deal with all that stuff that's now on my desk? How do I deal with all that stuff? That's new.
Tyson (05:32.367)
Yeah.
David (05:53.909)
But you better figure that out. And by the way, if you know what you're doing, it's a great time to be alive. If you don't, you're toast.
Tyson (05:56.773)
It's interesting that you bring up.
Tyson (06:05.337)
What do you mean if you know where you're dedicating the time in your day?
David (06:09.052)
Now, if you know what you're doing, I know where I'm going. Here's how I use this. Here's this, here's what I need to learn about this tool, et cetera. Sorry, I have a phone call right now. Can you edit this?
Tyson (06:25.455)
For sure, yeah, that's fine. I've become the king editor due to little twitches like that. I think just through the nature of having a couple of young kids, I've become the king of editing out background noise. So the phone calls the least of our worries.
David (06:40.976)
Okay, no, I think my wife got it, so we're fine.
Tyson (06:44.286)
beautiful. Beautiful. Now I was just saying it's really interesting that you've brought up the consciousness really early because it's far deeper than just getting your ducks lined up, isn't it? Because I heard Elon Musk speak to this a while ago. He said, I've got 50 projects that would all take my entire life plus more if I was to do any of them even mildly well. And so my biggest frustration is the fact that I have to live with the realization that there's no way
I'm gonna be able to get through anywhere near as much as what I need to and on a far smaller scale. I know I personally relate to that.
David (07:20.274)
Yeah, yeah, like that.
Tyson (07:24.195)
Yeah, it's far more of a psychological struggle than what people might put productivity down to.
David (07:31.988)
Yeah, absolutely. know psychological is about perspective. What are you focused on? Where are you going? And how important is that email to you? Why should you? It's about perspective. Not about psychology. It's just about, hey, come on. What are you focused on?
Tyson (07:57.721)
Yeah, there's a pastor that I used to listen to.
David (07:58.772)
You know, and that's kind of it. I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a behaviorist. I'm not a motivational speaker. I'm not anything. I just define the game of how do you get stuff off your mind that has your attention? I figured that out years ago. Made my career out of that.
Tyson (08:21.939)
You stumbled upon that because of the fact you were just trying to navigate it for your own life.
David (08:26.206)
Yeah, absolutely.
Tyson (08:29.081)
What do you think people are doing most ineffectively when it comes to where they dedicate their day?
David (08:33.15)
They're not capturing stuff that has their attention. They're using their head as their brain. They're using their head as their office. It's a shitty office. Your head is a crappy office. You did not evolve to decide, manage, remind yourself, manage relationship between more than guess how many things? Computer science now.
The number of things that you can keep in your head and still manage it appropriately is four. That's it. the baby's crying. the rain's coming and there's a tiger in the thing and I need to cook dinner. That's it. Once you pass that, you're toast. You're gonna be driven by the latest and the luckiest as opposed to good.
Tyson (09:08.517)
the
David (09:30.0)
Strategic intuitive intelligence in terms of decision-making so sorry Don't shoot the messenger I'm just I discovered this 40 years ago your hands for having ideas, but not for hanging into and You know the cognitive scientists have now proven that
Tyson (09:50.957)
Yeah, it is funny that you can fall into the trap of just thinking that whether it's modern technology or just modern civilisation in general gives you this false illusion that you're perhaps a little bit more intelligent than your ancestors but I mean we've found out time and time again how far from the truth that seems to be.
David (10:09.007)
Crazy. Well, it's not crazy. It's just unaware. That's not how you're wired to do this.
Tyson (10:21.061)
As a foundation for people who are, because here's the thing that I often find. I I see this in my own life and everyone I speak to who I'm close enough for them to be honest. Yeah, sure. They might go, yeah, well, he's right. There is only four things that you can focus on, but there's 25 things in my day that demand my attention, whether it's like my two kids yelling at once or my wife. So it's either just doing a whole heap of things very ineffectively or saying, you you know what, I'm actually going to narrow in on what is truly important, what I can actually focus on.
and build my days around that particular, you know, focus, skill, job, whatever it may be.
David (10:58.24)
Good luck.
Tyson (11:01.019)
How did you manage to come up with the system for getting things done? said you...
David (11:03.385)
I have no idea. I just came up with a system for myself. Worked with my consultant class that I was working with. Worked for them. Somebody asked me in a big corporation to design a training program around this, which I did. Highly successful. So I spent the next 20, 25 years training hundreds of thousands of people and coaching
you know, spending many, many, many, many thousands of hours one-on-one, desk-side, some of the busiest and brightest people you'd ever meet on the planet, walking through this methodology about how do you get stuff in your head? How do you uncork that? How do you manage that stuff? And most people have no clue.
Could have fooled me, but they paid me to do it, it became my career.
Tyson (12:03.929)
Hahaha!
Is there anything that annoys you most when you sit down with a new person and they ask you another organisational question? I'm sure you've seen some patterns over these years.
David (12:17.714)
I just say pick what you want.
What do use?
You know, lot of people I've worked with that have this sort of ADD or ADHD sort of syndrome, they prefer this because this is current. It's right now, it's like, wow, I don't have to punch anything out. No batteries, no wifi. Yeah, so low tech is oftentimes the first step for...
for people to then make sure that they don't have things on their head is what's on your head and how do you capture that? So, you know, low tech, pen and paper can't beat it.
Tyson (13:07.971)
Yeah, it's very interesting because I mean, I've got an iPhone and from my torch to my collection bucket to my photos of my kids, it's stored on there. But I mean, I feel like the area that we don't...
David (13:23.442)
It's a black hole, Tyson, come on. It's a black hole. Until you empty that regularly. If you go back through everything you stuck in there on some consistent basis, that works. That's fine. Fine tool. Great. But if you're not doing that, that stuff that's sitting there and then it starts to be subliminally creating your anxious anxiety.
about what should I be doing? my god, I forgot. Where is it? What happened?
Tyson (14:02.735)
probably got five more tools on there than we ever really need to be productive.
David (14:09.425)
Probably. Well, and then you have channel creep. know, my God, I got Slack, I've got Teams, I've got Google Meet, I've got, you know, I've got all these things that I need to pay attention to, to some degree, to figure out what the heck I need to do about any of that, if anything. It's crazy.
Tyson (14:12.218)
Ready?
Tyson (14:34.403)
How do you feel about technology in general?
David (14:38.41)
It's cool. If you know what you're doing, it's a great time to be alive. If you don't, you're toast. Period.
Tyson (14:44.505)
Yeah. Do you use an iPhone at all?
David (14:49.172)
yeah, for sure. But mostly just for directions and for phone calling if I need to. But I don't use that for business. my god. How crazy is that?
Tyson (14:50.721)
Sure, but you've just got rules around it.
Tyson (15:05.606)
It's so funny. It's really interesting. I like that you're just calling it out because the truth is it is crazy, but it is amazing how constantly we're reminded that this because there's more numbers in it doesn't mean it's not crazy. In fact, maybe the opposite's the exact truth. Just yeah, it's a there's something I've got a notepad. I mean, it's on it's at my feet now. I don't need to pick it up. But I've got a notepad. And one thing that feels great to me is when that note's done, you can peel it off and throw it out and there's
something that constantly feels good about that physical action of just getting it out of your presence, can, you can, how good is that? Yep.
Tyson (15:43.365)
Yeah.
David (15:44.348)
Yeah, you can't beat it.
Tyson (15:48.363)
What is that? I know we've established you're not a psychologist, but there is definitely something that feels good mentally to take that step and write it down, then throw it out.
David (15:58.706)
Yeah, why not?
David (16:03.22)
Well, it's the idea of completion. Here's the thing, here's a thought, here's the thing I need to do. I just did it. Done. That's health. That's productivity. It's productivity. It's like, wow, what am I trying to do? Let me do it. If I can do it in a couple of minutes, let me do it now.
Tyson (16:03.289)
You stick more.
Tyson (16:32.223)
The one system that you came up 40 years ago is the system that you're still used to this day. Nothing's changed. It's like, all right, this works. Why change it?
David (16:39.838)
Yeah. Well, come on. When we fly to Jupiter in 2090, you're still going to need an end basket. You're still going to have to decide, wait a minute, what's got our attention? What has the next action? Who's doing it? This is evergreen productivity, outcome and action. What are we trying to accomplish? How do we allocate or reallocate our attention and activities to make it happen?
Period. Tell me if that's wrong. Tell me if anything can come up any different than that. I don't care when. This is universal stuff. But most people don't do this, interestingly, as a basic behavior in terms of how they manage.
The stuff that shows up in the mail, the stuff that shows up in their inbox, in their email. Most people just haven't been trained to know how to think about that stuff, make decisions about it, and park it in appropriate places.
could have voted me, made my career.
Tyson (17:58.133)
I can almost hear the comment section lighten up with people asking, okay, well, I like the idea of navigating or eliminating the excess so can focus on my four. But how do you even start to do that in a culture like ours because...
David (18:11.993)
Pen and paper. Write down everything that has your attention. I need a new vice president. We need new tires in our car. I need to do research. Karate lessons for my little girl.
Tyson (18:26.405)
you
David (18:27.636)
It's that simple. Get it out of your head. Your head's just a crappy office. That's a place to hold those things. So you need to get it out and then not leave it there. You don't need to make a bunch of lists. You then need to, okay, what do I need to do to get rid of that list? And then you need, is that an action I need to take? Is that something I need to buy? Is that something I need to talk to somebody about?
So that's the clarifying step. you know, I just identified the five steps, how you get control. You capture what's got your attention. You clarify what it means. You organize the results in some place. If you can't finish it in the moment, then you need to reflect on the whole inventory and all your stuff. So you feel comfortable about what you're Period. I didn't make that up. I recognized that's what you do.
to get your kitchen in order, to get your life in order, to get anything in order. You just need to do those things. And I just didn't identify what those were.
Tyson (19:38.509)
It's definitely a theme. know the, the minimalists who I'm sure you've heard of over the last 10 or 15 years, Joshua Fields, Milburn and Ryan Nicodemus. They, they shared a message, which I think connected with, or I know connected with millions of people. And I often wonder how much that connecting factor is just the fact that they're getting permission just to throw away a heap of things that they're told is important, which is really just that clutter. Like there's something that feels good about whether it's
your mind that you're just doing a dump from, or your office that's just collected too much paper or books or whatever it might be. Something feels good about just having the approval or the okay to go, no, no, you don't need all this just because everyone's got it. It doesn't mean it's the only way to operate.
David (20:25.972)
Sure.
Dump stuff that needs to be dumped.
And that changes because over time you think that was an important thing to read. No, too much later you go, you know, left that important out of here. So things change their nature over time. So you need to stay in order to stay organized. You need to stay current with what's currently relevant.
And that changes. Believe me.
David (21:09.722)
Do you have an electronics drawer of weird stuff you've collected that you don't know what it's for but you think you might need it? You think you might need it? At some point you go, I've had that for two years. Out of here. Yay. So that's the kind of what I'm talking about like staying current with your agreements about yourself with what's relevant, what's current.
Tyson (21:16.325)
you
David (21:38.804)
What's needed. Whatever. It's a, it's a constant process. You don't, you don't ever end that process. Look, I'll be 80 years old next year. I still have to do this. I still have to go, a minute, David, is that a note I need to do anything about? I don't know. I gotta, I gotta figure that out. You don't get rid of that job.
Tyson (21:43.383)
If they ever.
Tyson (22:10.237)
Does this apply to your physical space as well? If someone from the street walked into your house, would they look around your living room and go, man, you don't own much stuff. Like are you a bit of a, not a clean freak, but you just don't have excess bullshit for lack of a better description.
David (22:23.324)
No, we're pretty minimalist about all that. Nothing there. Nothing there we don't need.
Tyson (22:28.013)
I guess it'd be hard to dig.
Tyson (22:33.305)
Be hard to dedicate your life and your career towards helping people eliminate the excess from their life and just collect stuff in your lounge room.
David (22:40.928)
You never know what's excess. I saw a video of, who was it? The guy who designs socks in the UK. A fabulously creative guy. And he had his whole office full of toys and stuff and all kinds of things. Because he liked that.
That's what gave him ideas and inspiration for whatever his next designs were. So there's no right or wrong about how much you need to keep wearing.
to be organized. It may be a little bit, it may be a lot, but that's up to you personally.
Tyson (23:34.982)
So the idea of selling someone a promise of minimalism is going to help you find the answers is like a little bit of a... yeah.
David (23:43.568)
Well, no, no, minimalism is great. But how minimal is minimal?
You don't know that.
David (23:56.957)
You just need to go, that's not necessary. That still might be useful. Keep it around. Could be a lot, could be nothing, could be anything. So understand minimalism. If what you mean by that is only things that have meaning for you. Couldn't agree more.
But that might be a lot of stuff.
David (24:32.03)
So I have no judgment about that or think either one is better.
Tyson (24:40.325)
See, I think I've got too much judgment about it because I've spent too much time in my father-in-law's garage and he's got a lot of sentimental items that he swear he's gonna enjoy or it's gonna be a project that he'll work on. And from my perspective, I saw that 15 years ago and it's still in the same shape as what it was when you told me you were gonna update it.
David (24:57.928)
But that's his job, not yours. Unless it is.
Tyson (25:04.655)
Sure, it's definitely not mine. I won't be offering any time soon. It's a good point. Yeah, there's no one number that can, you can't just say, yeah, all right, you need five things and that's gonna clarify all your issues. I guess that makes sense. It's funny though, I think there's something in people just almost wanting a prescription. Like maybe the idea, just to stay with minimalists as an example, like maybe something that clicks is...
people are attracted to that magic formula, aren't they? Like we like the idea of just being told exactly what to do and it serves as almost a scaffold so we can go, stay within these barriers and then our life's gonna be more free.
David (25:40.439)
Right, right and then go to the next Chinese restaurant and look at the menu. You know, of 432 things you could order. So you don't, don't wait a minute. I think I want that, right? I that. So you're making choices out of all your options. Once you kind of get that sense, then it doesn't matter how many things you have to do.
Tyson (25:46.725)
That's true.
David (26:09.128)
You are making good choices of your options. Right now, here's what I want to do. I'm going to have a nap. I'm going have a beer. I'm going to work on this hard email that somebody just sent me that I need to respond to. That's just, see, at this point in my life, I just do what I feel like doing.
David (26:36.446)
Sometimes I go, what are you not doing what you feel like doing?
Tyson (26:43.107)
I would say the opposite is maybe true for me. I would say I've got so many interests and hobbies that I maybe over commit. I'm doing all the things, but maybe I'm doing too many things.
David (26:53.574)
Yeah, yeah. Pick.
Tyson (26:55.929)
which seems to be a trap people fall into. I know at some point there's a point of diminishing returns and... Yeah.
David (26:59.522)
Yeah pick one. Pick one. And then feel okay or not. Or say wrong choice. Pick another.
It's a Chinese menu.
Tyson (27:19.319)
And that allows the room for, because that's one thing that kept coming into my mind as you were speaking. It's like, yeah, but as I go and as I progress, like where I'm at now is very different to where I'm at 10 years ago in terms of priorities. And so that's the beauty of it. Like you can have four things, but then what, in maybe a couple of years time, or when you sense that something you're doing is wrong, well, that's when you update your list.
David (27:43.006)
There? It's all a working hypothesis. You don't know what you're doing on the planet. Tice, come on. I don't either. I just like, well, I think that's what I'm about. Let me make a best choice as best I can and then course correct when you get better data. You know, come on, you're gonna be smarter tomorrow than I am tomorrow.
I'll be smarter tomorrow too. So don't get hung up in any of your commitments. Just keep them going so they keep you moving. And that's what will give you the information you need.
Tyson (28:23.257)
Yeah.
Tyson (28:27.609)
Yeah. Do you feel like that's true that we don't know what it is that we're doing on the planet? You got no spiritual ideas or anything around what it is we're doing here?
David (28:39.092)
Well, you might. But if you did, you probably don't need to be here. So you're still here to learn. What are you doing? How do I express? How do I experience? What do I learn from that? Who am I? Who's doing this? You know, those are great questions.
Tyson (29:01.155)
Yeah. One thing that I stubbed my toe on from time to time is like, I like the idea. So I kind of boil my main priorities around like these things. I've got my faith, my relationships, my health, career, and contribution, whether that's time or money. But each of those categories, I would say has a list of probably potentially hundreds of things. And so on the surface, I could say, yeah, David, I've got five things that I'm focused on.
But within those things, there's so many things that can potentially overwhelm you depending on how much time you want to dedicate to it. How do you navigate that?
David (29:41.544)
Get older.
David (29:46.186)
Simple, simple solution. Just get older. You'll find out. You'll find out what you can and what you can't do. And then you stop beating yourself up for the stuff you think you can't do because you don't have time.
Tyson (29:46.468)
I'm working on it.
Tyson (29:51.205)
What do you mean by that?
Tyson (30:06.853)
I've got a neighbour who's 83 across the road and it's actually a sentiment I left when I had a conversation with him a couple of days ago. I speak with him quite regularly and he said that. goes, I'm at the point in my life now where I realise I'm not about to go out and start a new empire and I've kind of made peace with it. I don't feel stressed about that. I kind of understand it. And I go, it sounds like a pretty free way to live your life. I'm 37, David.
can tell you there's a lot of 37 year old too who definitely don't have that attitude, myself included.
David (30:36.562)
Yeah, yeah, don't worry. mean, I'll be 79 in two months. you know, twice your age. Give it up. No, don't give it up.
keep choosing out of the options. Just good to know what all your options are. And then say that or that or that or that because it's a small part of you. There's a, there's a small voice inside of you, Tyson, that knows who you are, what you're doing, what you're about, why you're on the planet.
what you should be doing. Just stop and listen to that voice to make choices about all the options. Nothing wrong with keeping all those options out there. Yay. Why not?
Tyson (31:36.421)
It's something I definitely look over too much. I've got a joke with my wife, she laughs at me because my name is Tyson Popplestone and I tell her from time to time I'll have a meeting with Coach Poppy and that is where I kind of do that. Like I'll sit down and I'll ask the questions that are stressing me out to Coach Poppy and I'll say, what do I do? And it is amazing how often I feel I walk away with clarity on what the next step should be.
David (31:48.436)
You
David (32:00.34)
Sure. Pay attention.
Tyson (32:02.501)
What point, yeah, so you said you're turning 79 next month. I'm sure this is a process over many years, but what point do you think you could say with as much confidence as you just did that you've kind of made peace with the fact that you're never gonna get through the infinite list that is our life?
David (32:20.596)
I have no idea.
think when I was in my 30s I started to learn about the intuition and the still small voice inside of yourself. So probably until that point I couldn't have answered that. Even after that point I'd say, okay, then I think I have a compass inside of me that can navigate me relative to where I need to go and what...
David (32:51.177)
I was your age before that even started to happen.
Tyson (32:55.013)
For sure, I've definitely started to get glimpse of that in some degree. It's interesting because the way you speak about aging, sounds very freeing and it sounds as though, you know, if you allow it to be and allow it to mold you and not make you bitter, it could be something that's very enjoyable. But I guess there's a stereotype of like the old cynical man. And it's interesting that you can become both cynical and free potentially at the same time. I'm not sure if you relate to.
David (33:09.63)
you
Tyson (33:21.401)
to any of that, but you meet some people from time to time. spoke to a guy called Phil Maffetone last night and he's about the same age, maybe slightly older than you. And he's like one of the most joy-filled guys. He seems to have clarity on what he's doing, but he also has this cool ability to maybe implement what you just spoke about, just knowing what the next step is, or at least trusting that he's taking the right step for the moment. But he seems both free and more joy-filled than a lot of people who...
Hit old age.
David (33:53.02)
Or getting older is great. I love it. For the same reason.
Tyson (33:55.897)
What do you love about it?
David (34:01.224)
gives a frig about what anybody thinks. I'm just gonna do what I feel like doing and then I'll do it and then course correct and I don't have any there's no nobody's grading me nobody's out there saying okay that's right or wrong so
Tyson (34:07.237)
you
David (34:25.012)
There's a great deal of freedom. And I have two wonderful little dogs and my wonderful wife that I've been married to for 35 years. And you know, come on, it's a great life. And getting older, I'm just smarter. I'll be smarter tomorrow than I am today. And I think unless something starts to degenerate in there. But.
Otherwise, no, it's cool.
Tyson (34:58.917)
It's really cool perspective. I often laugh at how I catch myself caring a lot less even now about what certain people think of me. it is very freeing. It's funny how you spend, for me, I'll use as an example, your 20s and even before that, trying to impress so many people and making sure you've got the right opinions and the right clothes and the right insert, whatever it is that has your attention. And then you get to a certain point, which I would say I'm pretty close to being at now where it's like, you know what?
Yeah, I know for a fact you don't like me and it causes no concern for me. It probably, like there's a certain deal of confidence.
David (35:35.217)
But no, come on, I still like to look good. I still like to, okay, is this fit? Is this not fit? You know, I'm getting a little fatter, you know, and, but okay, that looks good, that's okay. So I don't think you need to get rid of approval, you know, as a driver, for me.
Tyson (35:46.309)
you
David (36:01.19)
I love people to approve me for whatever I'm doing. I just, you know, after many 50 years of personal growth training and whatever, I discovered that approval is okay. It's fine to just move approval. It's fine to just do whatever you think people want you to do as long as that doesn't get in the way of what you want to do. I think that's the key.
and that's what I had to learn being here in a lot of years.
Tyson (36:30.287)
Yeah.
David (36:36.419)
self-awareness and growth practice. Who's David? Who's he? What does he want? As opposed to what do you think everybody around you wants? So it was fun to have everybody around me, you know, and to say, here's what I want to do so that they like me so that I have that kind of approval.
David (37:07.428)
That was my game. Does that make sense?
Tyson (37:10.384)
Yeah, it does, it does make sense. So I guess what you're saying is as long as like your sense of self-worth isn't based solely on getting the approval of others for what they want for you.
David (37:19.685)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Don't negate what's true inside of you about all that.
Tyson (37:30.447)
What were you doing before you spent your time doing this every day? What was the job that you were working your way through when you realised you needed some form of...
David (37:36.641)
Many jobs. I was trying to find myself in God Truth in the University. was doing meditation and spiritual practices. I got a black belt at karate. But none of that paid the rent. So I just wound up working with friends. And I could help them do what they were doing. Their systems and their efficiencies and so forth. I like that. I became a consultant.
So that was 1982, so you're talking a lot of years ago. But I haven't stopped that. That's what I've been doing ever since.
Tyson (38:14.173)
And what did that transition look like? Like you said you came up with the rules for yourself. Like was that immediately a book or how did you know it was a book? You passed it on to some mates and they go, you know what?
David (38:22.324)
No, I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea. I thought there were a lot of people making a lot more money than me who'd already figured this out. Wrong answer. They hadn't. They just wanted what I had because it gave them more room to do more of what they were doing. So I just, that was a long discovery of mine over many, many years.
to then develop what then became getting things done or getting GPD and the methodology that I came up with to really formalize or objectifies what it is we do when we get control situations and how do we do that? And so, could have fooled me. I was not an aspirational entrepreneurial, I was more of a researcher and educator than anything else.
I'm not even a motivational speaker. I don't really care what people get about what I came up with. I just produced it, the game about how do you get control of your life in a way with as little effort as possible. And wrote the book about it. And I had no idea how popular it would be.
what I would do about it and then you're in.
Tyson (39:55.247)
You'll see people putting in hours of work every day. It's almost like a sacrifice to the universe to, you know, to, show whatever it is you're trying to show that you deserve the results that like deep down you want to see. So for example, I'm a standup comic here and a lot of the time I fall into this trap from time to time. You'll go, okay, if I write more and perform more, then surely I deserve to have more attention or more money or more opportunities as a comic. And you go, okay, on paper, that sounds nice, but the truth is there's.
comics who do far less of all of those things who have a far bigger platform. Like Kevin Hart, I've heard his writing process. He's perhaps the greatest comedian of our time. And he's like, yeah, just write a not like a dot point in my phone from time to time. And I get up on stage and work it out. So there seems like there's not always a correlation between the amount of. I don't want to say commitment to your work and the results, but it seems like what you've produced, which is, you know, obviously the numbers speak for itself.
wasn't something that you had some real anal strict plan to come up with in five years to change the lives of those who read it. Does that make sense?
David (41:08.28)
It does and I never had that as a driver It's kind of like yeah high aspiration no expectation That's formula for life be really cool if this happened and You know who cares if it does and so Yeah, and so that was that was my driver really or that was my impetus And so I just did it
Tyson (41:20.249)
That's a cool yeah.
Tyson (41:25.699)
Yeah. There's a guy, yeah, sorry to interrupt you. There's a guy I like called.
David (41:37.854)
had a good friend, a guy who wrote lots of popular books. He said, David, my God, he met me in Erickson. said, how did you get your book to such a bestseller? I said, it's a good book. It works. So what I wrote about were just the truth.
about what works in this area. I had no formal traditional education in psychology, business or time management. I just worked the book out of my own experience. And based upon that, it became the best center. It became, my God. It was, my God, this is so, wow. Here's now, and then especially in the high tech world, it hit a nerve.
David (42:34.868)
First book, Hardback 2001, Pamperback 2003, became a best seller then. Because people then sort of gave it around to everybody around them that they knew. I said, hey, this really works. Could it fool me?
Tyson (42:54.905)
as a Franciscan priest, I like, called Richard Ror. And he's got a similar attitude towards the work that he does, as you just explained, from like a more religious sense. He says, you've got to work as if it's up to God, but praise if it's up to you. Like understand there's probably not going to be any direct correlation between him and the work you put in the results you see. But I just keep throwing out what you want to see and, you know, try and maybe separate yourself from the emotions of that pursuit.
David (43:25.054)
Yeah, good advice.
Tyson (43:28.485)
because it can be an emotional pursuit. It's interesting, did you say you started this stuff in 82 and you wrote the book in 2001?
David (43:36.691)
Yeah.
Tyson (43:38.181)
So that 19 year period, you're obviously speaking quite a lot. But I mean, it seems like I opened.
David (43:42.452)
Yeah, thousands hundreds of thousands of people I've trained in the corporate training world and coaching You know thousands of hours just side with some of the busiest people you'd ever meet Just applying what I'd come up with To help them do what they wanted to do so yeah in 2000 I guess 1997 somebody said David you should write the book
David (44:11.644)
first next action was to buy three books about how you write a book. wow, okay, should I get an agent? I had no idea. So that was all how this all kind of started was the fact that I knew this worked. knew it was anybody who implemented any of what I'd come up with improved their conditions in working life period. And by that point
1997 and 2001 you know I was working with one of the biggest one of the big financial firm that you have to stand toe-to-toe with some of the best and brightest and busy people you'd ever meet and it went viral inside that culture I said well okay if if it goes in viral there
think I can trust this works. I don't think anybody can poke a hole in getting things done in methodology. So I wrote the book. And then who knew? I had no idea how popular it would be. Whether it would sell or not. I just had to write it to get the manual out of my head. In case somebody picked it up and said, okay, gee, if I got roamed by a bus, here's how I do that.
Yeah. So that was my driver, know, Tyson, at all. So that's what I did. And then here I am, you know, who knew the world would catch on to it and think it was good stuff. And then I had to try to build a business how to scale this education and this, you know, whatever we came up with, you know, on a global level.
Tyson (46:04.483)
Yeah. I've heard Seth Godin talk a lot about this and it's something that I think my generation particularly has maybe lost grip of. We are so focused on how to market a product that we forget about whether or not the product's actually gonna be effective or gonna have an impact. It's interesting that you started with the solution and said, okay, how can I tell people about this? Or how's this gonna help people?
I mean, it's a nice little reminder for me just hearing that to go, okay, hey, stop thinking about how can get more people to look at what it is that you're doing and to start doing what it is that you're doing more effectively.
David (46:40.594)
Yeah, can't beat that.
And you hope it works. Okay, then how do I make this some sort of a business model? And that's been a lot of my game for the last 30, 40 years is trying to figure out what's a business model about how to keep doing this.
Tyson (47:05.081)
I like that you say hope it works. I saw Ricky Gervais, the British comedian, get asked a question about how he was so successful at comedy. And he said, yeah, there's two things you have to do. You have to work hard and be lucky.
Tyson (47:23.401)
Speaking about a bloke who cares less about the opinions or maybe even the support of the mass population He's a bloke who's happy to say exactly what's on his mind I started watching him when he was probably around 40 and I mean he wasn't backwards in coming forward then and now I like it even more because you who just He'll swing for the fence. He just doesn't seem to I'm sure there's an element of fuel poured on the fire when he's on stage But it's it's kind of fun to watch a bloke like that just
David (47:34.983)
you
Tyson (47:51.991)
not really give a shit about how he might be perceived.
David (47:52.692)
No, I get it. No, that's great about Ricky.
Tyson (48:00.256)
You in Amsterdam at the moment, did you say?
David (48:02.651)
I am. That's where I live.
Tyson (48:04.716)
How long have you been in Amsterdam for?
Tyson (48:09.572)
Where abouts were you originally? Which part of which part of the states?
David (48:12.528)
Well, we moved from Santa Barbara, California. So we were in Southern California for many years. And so that's where...
Tyson (48:16.184)
yeah.
Tyson (48:19.755)
What inspired that move?
David (48:23.388)
Lots of things. We wanted to move to Europe.
David (48:29.908)
We love the Dutch, we love the country, we love the culture, we love the history. yeah, so we decided to stay.
Tyson (48:42.211)
You don't miss the states at all.
David (48:46.056)
That's great.
Tyson (48:48.515)
The Amsterdam is great.
David (48:51.444)
it's a terrible city. You never want to come. Stay away. Go away. Don't ever want to come. No, no, no, no. No,
Tyson (49:00.165)
Has life changed since moving from Santa Barbara to Amsterdam? seems, I'm not sure, I'm sure there's like plenty of business taking place in Europe, but I'm not sure, is that still the main?
David (49:13.778)
Well, yeah, come on, my world became more virtual, more global. Amsterdam was much more the center of my world than Santa Barbara was. So that was convenient. know, Schiphol Airport is a fabulous airport to travel anywhere in the world. I was invited to come. so yeah. And, you know, it's a very international city, such an international city. mean, come on, I'm a neighbor.
Tyson (49:35.204)
Yeah.
David (49:42.676)
Indian I hear, hear Yiddish I hear. It's incredible how there are think 172 nationalities officially resident in Amsterdam. know, what a global city can you be in? I couldn't find any other. That would be quite what that is.
Tyson (50:09.391)
Did you holiday there in the earlier days? Like was that how you knew that 10 years ago you wanted to move there?
David (50:12.596)
Hmm a couple of of times we've been to the city we knew it was a beautiful place but It could have been Stockholm could have been Berlin could have been Milan
said Amsterdam is about as north as I want to be in terms of cold and gray you know in the winter and and it's great honestly it's a lovely wonderful city to live in
Tyson (50:43.075)
Yeah, I haven't been there before. lived in London for about a year and a half and traveled around Europe fairly extensively back in like 2017. It was one city for whatever reason. I don't know how I didn't make it. And I'm spewing because I think every one of my mates who's gone to Europe raves about Amsterdam. I mean, I've seen enough photos to know it's a beautiful city, some parts of it. mean, some of the stories I come home and hear about, I okay, that just sounds like the part of town that as a married man with two kids, I probably can't go to anymore.
It's just like it's got options for all sorts, regardless of what your top four priorities are.
David (51:19.966)
No, no, that's all for the British tourists, not for anybody else. And so it's a beautiful city for lots of other reasons.
Tyson (51:31.075)
Yeah, outside of this work and this coaching that you're doing, like I assume that's one of your top four. Like how do you clarify what your sort of four priorities are at nearly 79?
David (51:45.524)
Mmm.
David (51:49.096)
You know, I think still finding creative ways to put my thought process out there in ways, know, in writing, in videos, podcasts or whatever to share what I've learned over all these years. So I don't think I could stop doing that until I can. So that's still what I do.
As someone said, look if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life again. So I love what I do, I love sharing this information, sharing this stuff. And I couldn't stop doing that if I tried.
Tyson (52:35.327)
What is it about it that you love doing? You said earlier that you're not necessarily worried about what people are taking out of their...
David (52:40.596)
It improves anybody's who implements any of this. They get more stuff out of their head, clarify next actions and outcomes of things they're committed to achieve, put those in some place that they can see in some sort of regular basis in terms of some sort of an external brain. They're gonna improve their life. They're gonna...
Improve every every intersection in their lives with their kids with their boss with their assistant Anybody anybody influence and this is not running the scissors, you know, you know Tyson come on You do any of this you're gonna improve the conditions around you so You know Wow, how cool that I wound up having a career
don't let me do nothing but that and still pays me money to keep doing it. So, go, yay! Why not?
Tyson (53:48.889)
How often are you speaking? Are you still speaking regularly?
David (53:52.444)
Yeah, not so much, you know, pre-pandemic I did a lot, but now we have a lot of license, a lot of certified licensees who've been trained to do this work and to spread it in their languages in their countries. So a lot of them are now sort of the stars in their own countries, you know, with this work. So I do every once in a while. I do a keynote, did one.
Two weeks ago, I'll do one. I'll be in Milan, I'll be in Paris helping our new partners there. So yeah, so I'm still doing this work, but we still have a lot of people now who are certified and well-trained and we trust who can do this work and spread it. So that's a lot of what we're doing right now is supporting them.
Tyson (54:48.225)
Are there any recent authors in the scene of productivity and time management that you're a fan of? I recently spoke to Oliver Berkman and I'm not sure if you're familiar with him.
David (54:56.372)
You
David (54:59.998)
He's great. Well, his new book, I couldn't quite agree with his new book about all the stuff they've talked about, but Oliver's great. And he was a big fan of my stuff. And he was a big fan of all the Stoics and their whole idea of accepting of current reality, which I think is a fabulous sort of personal and spiritual relationship called love.
Tyson (55:01.304)
He's great.
David (55:31.592)
don't negate anything going on. You need to accept it. You need to be accountable for it or you need to be aware of it and then move from there. know, Andra was great in terms of how he wrote about that in his first book. His first book was great. Fabulous.
Tyson (55:52.985)
Which, it was this second book you're saying that you couldn't quite agree with, or was it the first book?
David (55:59.892)
first book was great. We laughed all the way through it. was great. Fabulous. The second book where he said... I don't know what he said in second book, but... No, the first book was fabulous.
Tyson (56:13.369)
Yeah, I kind of threw that name actually without giving you a chance to answer the question, but he's one that stands out to me as a guy that I, some people seem to present a message and it comes with the added value of taking a huge weight off your shoulders. Obviously your book is in that category as well for not only me, but for so many people that you've just spoken about, but he's another one. Seth.
Seth Godin, a lot of what he writes, I have that same impact, very practical stuff that I got. It's also, you make me breathe easy. There are a couple of names that really stand out to me, but yeah, who sort of stands out to you?
David (57:01.713)
If they show up, that's fine. That's cool. Seth and Oliver, they've done great work. Written good stuff. So,
Tyson (57:15.097)
you just don't read other productivity books, so just don't read.
David (57:18.311)
Yeah, no, should I?
Tyson (57:20.517)
You don't enjoy any kind of reading?
David (57:28.298)
Mysteries are great. I love those. If I get a chance to go on vacation, I'll get two or three murder mysteries in books. That's my pleasure.
Tyson (57:43.555)
I think I love the honesty that you say that with because I think most people like to pretend they read more than they do. one's so honest about the fact they don't read.
David (57:54.29)
I don't. have no desire.
Tyson (57:59.577)
That's awesome. That's so funny. But that's just, have you always been that way?
David (58:04.326)
No, no, no. many years I read, well that's a nice book. I need to read that book. I need to read that book.
Now I'm
Tyson (58:16.389)
I love it. It's so good. got to, have you got a reputation? This is one thing from the moment the phone call started. I like it. My dad's very much the same. He's a straight shooter. He'll tell you exactly what he thinks. He's not sugarcoating anything. And there's a certain amount of peace that comes with a conversation like that because I mean, you know exactly where you sit throughout a conversation. Have you got a reputation for being like that?
David (58:17.702)
I don't... Why? Why should I?
David (58:46.868)
Not really. I'm much more of an approval guy. I need your approval. I need you to like me, Tyson. know? So, it's been only in my older age that I'm going, you know, who cares? Whether they like me or not. Here's who I am. Here's how I am. You know, not going to change that.
Tyson (59:09.775)
That's really cool. That's really cool. Hey, I got one eye on the clock and I know what are you, you're coming into early afternoon in Amsterdam at the moment, about two o'clock or just after.
David (59:19.432)
Yep.
Tyson (59:21.477)
I'll let you go into it in the afternoon. can see it looks like you've got some natural sunlight shining through your window there, so I'm very jealous about the fact that there's any sun. Mind you, we had a pretty good day today here in Melbourne, so things might be about to change.
David (59:35.437)
Yay, Melbourne was great. I loved it the last time I was there but expensive. my god. I don't know, five, eight years ago or whatever, I was in Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane doing some seminars. But amazing how expensive it was. I understood that in that...
Tyson (59:36.932)
Upgrade.
Tyson (59:41.798)
When we, it is, yeah, I mean...
Tyson (59:58.189)
It is quite wild, hey?
David (01:00:03.924)
I think Sydney was the second most expensive city next to Hong Kong to buy something in terms of property. Who knew? Well, all the oligarchs and everybody else had been buying up all the stuff around Australia. So I guess that's why. Anyway, no.
Tyson (01:00:16.163)
Yeah. That's great. Yeah.
Tyson (01:00:25.893)
Think our version of that.
David (01:00:31.572)
Melbourne was the most fabulous place.
Tyson (01:00:35.117)
Without the depth of recorded history, think Melbourne sounds like it could have maybe able to scratch the surface slightly of what it is you like about Amsterdam. mean, there's a lot of cultures. I'm not going to guess there's over a hundred, but between Italians, Chinese, Australians, Indians, we're thrown a little bit out there. Our Chinese restaurants also have 400 options if you go into it, and they usually seem to offer pretty good value for what they provide.
David (01:01:05.117)
Yeah.
Tyson (01:01:06.553)
Good to have you on, I really appreciate you making the time. Thanks, David.
David (01:01:10.768)
My pleasure. This was fun. Take care.
Tyson (01:01:13.637)
I'll cut that off there. Hey, thank you so much.